View Full Version : It's interesting how bitter the fans are now...
Carl and Herm are staying... ok, that's expected.
The Chiefs are going to go "young"... ok, that did start this year.
Carl doesn't want to win a SB, and never did... I doubt that.
"Rufus" says we aren't going to sign any FA's... well, that makes sense if we plan to build through the draft.
I guess I understand that this season was disappointing... and I agree that the last the 5 year plan was a constant failure for nearly 20 years now.
But the irrationalism is reaching an all time high.
I believe without a doubt that Herm and Carl both want win a superbowl.
Carl has no desire to go out embarassed by his last few years... if for n other reason, his massive ego will force him to try one last time to win the SB.
Herm has wanted to rebuild from the ground up from the day he arrived. We as fans and by proxy, Carl as Herm's boss forced him to accept DV's legacy roster. Sounds like Herm will finally get everything he wants.
Because his hands have been somewhat tied by DVs legacy, Herm will have his first and likely last chance to field a team as he always wanted it to be. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt for one last season.
If there is anyone in our organization's history that I would want trying to build our team through the draft, it's Herm. Not sure I want him coaching those players on game day, but that's another story.
Whatever the outcome, I do think that Herm and Carl are doing what they think is required to win a Superbowl in KC. I hope they get it figured out. I'm not counting on it, but I'm going to support it.
BigVE
12-31-2007, 07:29 PM
Wanting something and KNOWING HOW TO GET IT are very different. These people appear to have no clue.
the Talking Can
12-31-2007, 07:32 PM
and what has Carl done in the last 15 years to demonstrate that he has the first ****ing clue about how to build a Championship team?
just another Dufus article...fans are dumb, Carl is smart...give him another 5 years to solve the problems (that he created...oops! not supposed to say that...)
Carl is THE problem. As long as we ignore that, we will end up with the same result: Nothing.
Sorry jAZ, but there is no place for rational thought here today. Back to DC for you!
blueballs
12-31-2007, 07:34 PM
teflon
Mr. Flopnuts
12-31-2007, 07:34 PM
It's either support it, or move on. Those are really the only options.
BigMeatballDave
12-31-2007, 07:36 PM
http://www.faniq.com/images/blog/Kool-AidMan.jpg
Tribal Warfare
12-31-2007, 07:39 PM
Sorry jAZ, but there is no place for rational thought here today. Back to DC for you!
What is there to rationalize? The same asshole whose been promising the same line of bullshit for 20 years that things will get better while others in the AFC West have succeeded where the Chiefs have failed is still here.
Deberg_1990
12-31-2007, 07:39 PM
and what has Carl done in the last 15 years to demonstrate that he has the first ****ing clue about how to build a Championship team?
just another Dufus article...fans are dumb, Carl is smart...give him another 5 years to solve the problems (that he created...oops! not supposed to say that...)
Carl is THE problem. As long as we ignore that, we will end up with the same result: Nothing.
Come on guys, Carl just needs more time. LMAO
Bob Dole
12-31-2007, 08:06 PM
Maybe the Hunts have a retirement plan that requires 20 years of service to be fully vested.
Skip Towne
12-31-2007, 08:06 PM
Come on guys, Carl just needs more time. LMAO
Yep, he has a plan.
el borracho
12-31-2007, 08:28 PM
I can't even imagine Herm leading a team to the SuperBowl.
1ChiefsDan
12-31-2007, 09:01 PM
Is it possible that Peterson (sorry - the debil) was telling the truth in one of his latest interviews - this is the first time he has had a coach that wanted to rebuild and start with youth?
Schottenheimer for 10 years - Never attempted to start a young QB (didn't he want Brees over Rivers in SD)? Veterans over kids. Kept bringing in F/A in failed attempts at several positions.
Gunther for 2 years - just a bad decision for H/C
Vermeil for 5 years - obvious there - he wanted Green and no one else. Blind faith in veterans at all positions - didn't want to play kids
Herm - has played more young players than any of them. Has turned over most of the roster in just 2 years. Perhaps "the debil" couldn't overcome the coaches addiction of the past 18 years and "had" to start Huard this year.
Just a thought
cdcox
12-31-2007, 09:13 PM
Carl has no desire to go out embarassed by his last few years... if for n other reason, his massive ego will force him to try one last time to win the SB.
Herm has wanted to rebuild from the ground up from the day he arrived. We as fans and by proxy, Carl as Herm's boss forced him to accept DV's legacy roster. Sounds like Herm will finally get everything he wants.
Carl winning a SB in two years and Herm building a roster from the ground up are conflicting. Herm has been in position for two years and we are on a steep downward path. He doesn't have time to do a draft rebuild, especially when 1) he has no QB and 2) has many holes on the starting roster and 3) has a bunch of old guys in many of the places where there are not holes.
Herm and Carl doing a rebuild through the draft is destined to fail. If you are going to commit to this, you need a fresh regime that has a 3 to 4 year clock.
I can see Herm getting a 3 year clock from Clark.
Lonewolf Ed
12-31-2007, 09:18 PM
But the irrationalism is reaching an all time high.
[list] I believe without a doubt that Herm and Carl both want win a superbowl.
You can also believe without a doubt I want to give Salma Hayek a pearl necklace. Wanting it, however, makes no difference, because it's never going to happen.
FloridaMan88
12-31-2007, 09:20 PM
If there is anyone in our organization's history that I would want trying to build our team through the draft, it's Herm. Not sure I want him coaching those players on game day, but that's another story.[/list]
Based on what? What in Herm's time with the Jets and 2 years in KC suggests he is qualified to rebuild an entire roster through the draft?
siberian khatru
12-31-2007, 09:21 PM
Is it possible that Peterson (sorry - the debil) was telling the truth in one of his latest interviews - this is the first time he has had a coach that wanted to rebuild and start with youth?
Schottenheimer for 10 years - Never attempted to start a young QB (didn't he want Brees over Rivers in SD)? Veterans over kids. Kept bringing in F/A in failed attempts at several positions.
Gunther for 2 years - just a bad decision for H/C
Vermeil for 5 years - obvious there - he wanted Green and no one else. Blind faith in veterans at all positions - didn't want to play kids
Herm - has played more young players than any of them. Has turned over most of the roster in just 2 years. Perhaps "the debil" couldn't overcome the coaches addiction of the past 18 years and "had" to start Huard this year.
Just a thought
Carl bears ultimate responsibility for the philosophies of the coaches he hires and their performance. If he wanted young kids to be played he could have either 1) told the coaches to play them, or 2) hired coaches who wanted to play them.
Call me cynical, but maybe Carl never wanted to play young players or rebuild until it became blatantly obvious in a 4-12 season that that was the clear direction to go. Maybe that was why when Herm in training camp was talking out loud about starting Croyle, Carl stepped in and suggested Huard gave us the best chance to win now.
Carl's not "the debbil." He's just a GM who's had 19 years to produce a championship -- an extraordinary record in pro sports -- and not only has failed at that, he's now arguably farther away from achieving it than he was when he took over the franchise. I think it's time to give someone else a chance.
Mecca
12-31-2007, 09:22 PM
Carl winning a SB in two years and Herm building a roster from the ground up are conflicting. Herm has been in position for two years and we are on a steep downward path. He doesn't have time to do a draft rebuild, especially when 1) he has no QB and 2) has many holes on the starting roster and 3) has a bunch of old guys in many of the places where there are not holes.
Herm and Carl doing a rebuild through the draft is destined to fail. If you are going to commit to this, you need a fresh regime that has a 3 to 4 year clock.
Someone is about to tell you that Brodie Croyle is the shit.
cdcox
12-31-2007, 09:22 PM
I can see Herm getting a 3 year clock from Clark.
A new GM will want to build his own program and not be saddled with leftovers.
A new GM will want to build his own program and not be saddled with leftovers.
First of all, Carl's likely replacement is already on staff. Just a gut feeling.
But Carl will be around 2 more full sesaons in any case. Which means Herm will 32 games to show turn over the roster and earn another year. He will either have demonstrated progress at that point (young roster with a strong last 8 games of 2009) or whoever replaces Carl will move on.
Fly O.T. McWall
12-31-2007, 09:29 PM
carl wants to win... i have no doubt about that. the people that say all he wants is to sell itckets apparently don't understand that the best way to sell tickets is to win. and a superbowl would sell otu the stadium.
carl can be faulted, i think, for maybe giving his coaches too much power. by and large, he tried to give his coaches what they wanted, annd i think therin lies the rub -- sometiems what his coaches wanted weren't the best to build a championship.
Mecca
12-31-2007, 09:31 PM
As has been said wanting to win and knowing how to win are totally different things...
And if the Chiefs replace Carl with someone in house, we should all just give up at that point.
It's amazing that people who were bitching about Herm tinkering with DV's offense... are now basically bitching that Carl didn't bring in someone who would start 22 rookies in his first year.
Mecca
12-31-2007, 09:34 PM
I think you need to get a grasp on what people are actually bitching about...
1ChiefsDan
12-31-2007, 09:37 PM
Carl bears ultimate responsibility for the philosophies of the coaches he hires and their performance. If he wanted young kids to be played he could have either 1) told the coaches to play them, or 2) hired coaches who wanted to play them.
That's the funny thing about this place - depending on the prevailing winds - either the coach has all the power to play HIS players or Peterson decides what players the coach will play. It really seems to change from day to day.
cdcox
12-31-2007, 09:37 PM
First of all, Carl's likely replacement is already on staff. Just a gut feeling.
But Carl will be around 2 more full sesaons in any case. Which means Herm will 32 games to show turn over the roster and earn another year. He will either have demonstrated progress at that point (young roster with a strong last 8 games of 2009) or whoever replaces Carl will move on.
If we get one of Carl's minions after Carl steps down, I'm going to be hugely disappointed. I feel like I have to become an anti-fan in order to get fresh blood for the team. That sucks.
I hope Clark wants to make his own mark in the league, but if the path you outline holds true, I'll have to give up that hope.
1ChiefsDan
12-31-2007, 09:39 PM
I think you need to get a grasp on what people are actually bitching about...you mean everything?
Bob Dole
12-31-2007, 09:42 PM
I think you need to get a grasp on what people are actually bitching about...
The website policy against boobies?
siberian khatru
12-31-2007, 09:50 PM
That's the funny thing about this place - depending on the prevailing winds - either the coach has all the power to play HIS players or Peterson decides what players the coach will play. It really seems to change from day to day.
Happy New Year.
BigRedChief
12-31-2007, 09:55 PM
The website policy against boobies?
The Planet is anti-bobbies? WTF? Revolt! Revolt! Power to the Boobies!
http://www.memphisracingscene.com/pp/data/838/medium/boobies.JPG
Mr. Laz
12-31-2007, 10:11 PM
I believe without a doubt that Herm and Carl both want win a superbowl.
me too ......
but how much he wants it and what he is willing to risk for the super bowl is a whole different set of questions.
priorities
1. money
2. consistency
3. super bowl
knowing how to get to a super bowl?
crap ... if Carl had a clue we would of come closer in 20 years
the Talking Can
12-31-2007, 10:16 PM
I want to be President of Uganda.
so ****ing what?
dirk digler
12-31-2007, 10:34 PM
Carl bears ultimate responsibility for the philosophies of the coaches he hires and their performance. If he wanted young kids to be played he could have either 1) told the coaches to play them, or 2) hired coaches who wanted to play them.
Call me cynical, but maybe Carl never wanted to play young players or rebuild until it became blatantly obvious in a 4-12 season that that was the clear direction to go. Maybe that was why when Herm in training camp was talking out loud about starting Croyle, Carl stepped in and suggested Huard gave us the best chance to win now.
Carl's not "the debbil." He's just a GM who's had 19 years to produce a championship -- an extraordinary record in pro sports -- and not only has failed at that, he's now arguably farther away from achieving it than he was when he took over the franchise. I think it's time to give someone else a chance.
Yep spot on siberian :clap:
MadMax
12-31-2007, 11:28 PM
I want to be President of Uganda.
so ****ing what?
Is your name Idi? :p
Coach
12-31-2007, 11:29 PM
I can't believe there are STILL some Carl Peterson/Herm Edwards supporters around here, especially the way this season went.
:shake:
Al Bundy
01-01-2008, 03:59 AM
Carl and Herm are staying... ok, that's expected.
The Chiefs are going to go "young"... ok, that did start this year.
Carl doesn't want to win a SB, and never did... I doubt that.
"Rufus" says we aren't going to sign any FA's... well, that makes sense if we plan to build through the draft.
I guess I understand that this season was disappointing... and I agree that the last the 5 year plan was a constant failure for nearly 20 years now.
But the irrationalism is reaching an all time high.
I believe without a doubt that Herm and Carl both want win a superbowl.
Carl has no desire to go out embarassed by his last few years... if for n other reason, his massive ego will force him to try one last time to win the SB.
Herm has wanted to rebuild from the ground up from the day he arrived. We as fans and by proxy, Carl as Herm's boss forced him to accept DV's legacy roster. Sounds like Herm will finally get everything he wants.
Because his hands have been somewhat tied by DVs legacy, Herm will have his first and likely last chance to field a team as he always wanted it to be. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt for one last season.
If there is anyone in our organization's history that I would want trying to build our team through the draft, it's Herm. Not sure I want him coaching those players on game day, but that's another story.
Whatever the outcome, I do think that Herm and Carl are doing what they think is required to win a Superbowl in KC. I hope they get it figured out. I'm not counting on it, but I'm going to support it.
Wrong on Carl.. he hates the Chiefs fan base and the Kansas City media with a passion. His desire is not to win, but make the fan base suffer. Carl has no clue on how to build a winner, he has proven that over time. He will NEVER change, he doesn't want to change and he doesn't care about winning.
Micjones
01-01-2008, 04:25 AM
Fans are bitter because we haven't won a playoff game since 1994. And the common denominator is "King" Carl Peterson. The man who just came out to the media and told us all how secure his job is.
I'm all for Herm having appropriate time to put his mark on this team, but his handling of players has been suspect all along. He's made enough of his own mistakes even when considering this is an inherited team.
I'm sorry, but both of them should be out.
HemiEd
01-01-2008, 06:29 AM
What is there to rationalize? The same asshole whose been promising the same line of bullshit for 20 years that things will get better while others in the AFC West have succeeded where the Chiefs have failed is still here.
That is not even the scary part. Many think that getting a high pick one year, is the magical cure with an idiot at the helm.
It has worked so well in Oakland and other places.
But yet, the Chiefs will get it right?
RibKing67
01-01-2008, 07:21 AM
I can't believe there are STILL some Carl Peterson/Herm Edwards supporters around here, especially the way this season went.
:shake:
I can. They are the same people that want Marty back. Not too many people welcome change in much of anything. If they can stick with folgers why go to starbucks? Its the same ole same ole shit. Unfortunately that is exactly whatit is, shit. It is time to move on and accept that Carl is not the guy to lead this franchise to a SB and go outside the box to find a new leader.
I have just one question fof you all....
If you have worked for 19 years to get to the top of whatever business your in, and your not there at the end of that time. While you have sat and watched many come after you and get it done in less time. Do you as a person realize that maybe just maybe your not supposed to be the one to get to the top?
tmax63
01-01-2008, 08:07 AM
Amazing how it is all Carl and Herm's fault. I was a Solari supporter last year and the beginning of this year but have been convinced that he needs to go back coaching the O-line or just go. It is obvious what KC needs to be competitive again. If the front office doesn't aggressively attempt to fix those areas then clean house. Or if they sign a FA or 2 and draft in those areas of need and look like they do know what's wrong and want to fix it then let them. I don't want to go out tommorrow and clean house because at this point the only coaches available out there are the ones that suck just as bad as KC's and have been fired already.
Baby Lee
01-01-2008, 08:13 AM
Schottenheimer for 10 years - Never attempted to start a young QB (didn't he want Brees over Rivers in SD)?
ROFL ROFL - how old do you think Brees is?
Baby Lee
01-01-2008, 08:16 AM
Someone is about to tell you that Brodie Croyle is the shit.
Nobody's saying Brodies the shit for certain. We're saying he hasn't had an adequate opportunity with a quality cast.
And I give a flying fark that you haven't seen 'it' in him. You've given no evidence that you're some it-whisperer.
Bearcat
01-01-2008, 10:12 AM
I hope they get it figured out. I'm not counting on it, but I'm going to support it.
http://images.despair.com/products/demotivators/ineptitude.jpg
mlyonsd
01-01-2008, 11:23 AM
The fans have a right to be bitter.
CP allowed the team to fall to this level. Herm knew exactly what he was getting himself into.
Sad thing now is next year we'll be arguing whether or not the team is going in the right direction when we finish 6-10.
suds79
01-01-2008, 11:36 AM
* I believe without a doubt that Herm and Carl both want win a superbowl.
* Carl has no desire to go out embarassed by his last few years... if for n other reason, his massive ego will force him to try one last time to win the SB.
I personally think the people who think Carl doesn't want to win a SB are idiots. Why not?
But that's never been the correct question if Carl wants to win a SB. The question is "Can Carl WIN a SB?" The history and recent performance (last 10 years) overwhelmingly says no.
So I'm not going to support them keeping the guy.
That's why I'm fine with us stinking it up until the end of the 2009 season when Carl is finally gone. It really doesn't matter until then. We'll acquire a bunch of high 1st round draft picks and maybe the new GM and pick it up from there to where we'll actually have a chance.
milkman
01-01-2008, 11:50 AM
ROFL ROFL - how old do you think Brees is?
As you know, I am certainly not a Marty fan, but even I recognize the stupidity of that critisism.
I mean look at all the young QBs drafted by the Chiefs in Marty's 10 years and all the success they managed to achieve after they got out of KC.
That Marty just stunted their development, clearly.
I can see Herm getting a 3 year clock from Clark.
But why should he?
suds79
01-01-2008, 12:03 PM
But why should he?
I think Herm should get a 3rd year because we all knew this type of season was coming no matter who the coach was after DV.
It's only one more year.
Besides, it's Carl who should be gone.
I think Herm should get a 3rd year because we all knew this type of season was coming no matter who the coach was after DV.
It's only one more year.
Besides, it's Carl who should be gone.
To be clear, I'm suggesting that (barring a the team quitting on him next season) we will have Herm for a total of 4 years, and maybe more.
Last season + this season + 2 more years of Carl + maybe even 1 more year after Carl retires (if progress is demonstrated in the next 2).
But why should he?
You can expect he will draft well during that time, and that's key to rebuilding through the draft. Worst case is that he leaves demonstrating he's a better GM than a HC... and he's restocked the Chiefs with young talent for the next HC.
Sad thing now is next year we'll be arguing whether or not the team is going in the right direction when we finish 6-10.
That's to be expected if we are actually going to build from the ground up now.
I still think it's remarkable that we went from a dominating, top-ranked offense to this embarrassment in only two years.
Honestly, I think I'm still in shock, peeps.
FAX
Dave Lane
01-01-2008, 12:53 PM
and what has Carl done in the last 15 years to demonstrate that he has the first ****ing clue about how to build a Championship team?
just another Dufus article...fans are dumb, Carl is smart...give him another 5 years to solve the problems (that he created...oops! not supposed to say that...)
Carl is THE problem. As long as we ignore that, we will end up with the same result: Nothing.
Almost totally agree except that Herm is the coaching version of Carl. Until he goes the future for a superbowl is blocked.
Dave
Phobia
01-01-2008, 01:17 PM
I very rarely agree with you jAZ but with few exceptions, I do today.
I believe that most head coaches are capable of winning a superbowl under the right circumstances. Obviously, Belechick did not have the right circumstances in Cleveland. Herm does not in KC - currently. I don't know exactly what is going to change Herm's hand here but I think the departure of Carl would help. I'm not fond of Herm's philosophy or many of his decisions but I do acknowledge that he's been dealt a very difficult hand.
I'm not necessarily a Herm backer but I don't think we've seen Herm with the necessary tools to be successful in today's NFL. If he's provided the tools and still fails I'll be in with the lynch mob. Until then, we have to understand what a legitimate rebuilding feels like - this is it. Anger isn't going to help anything. This team isn't going to be competitive until at least 2009. Accept it. Hope for the best.
Brock
01-01-2008, 01:20 PM
As far as gameday coaching goes, I don't see why anyone thinks Herm is even adequate. He isn't. It's obvious.
mlyonsd
01-01-2008, 01:21 PM
That's to be expected if we are actually going to build from the ground up now.
Right, but I'm just saying that measuring the success of rebuilding will be one of the new themes on the planet that is debated to death.
I very rarely agree with you jAZ but with few exceptions, I do today.
I believe that most head coaches are capable of winning a superbowl under the right circumstances. Obviously, Belechick did not have the right circumstances in Cleveland. Herm does not in KC - currently. I don't know exactly what is going to change Herm's hand here but I think the departure of Carl would help. I'm not fond of Herm's philosophy or many of his decisions but I do acknowledge that he's been dealt a very difficult hand.
I'm not necessarily a Herm backer but I don't think we've seen Herm with the necessary tools to be successful in today's NFL. If he's provided the tools and still fails I'll be in with the lynch mob. Until then, we have to understand what a legitimate rebuilding feels like - this is it. Anger isn't going to help anything. This team isn't going to be competitive until at least 2009. Accept it. Hope for the best.
Agreed 100%.
mlyonsd
01-01-2008, 01:32 PM
I very rarely agree with you jAZ but with few exceptions, I do today.
I believe that most head coaches are capable of winning a superbowl under the right circumstances. Obviously, Belechick did not have the right circumstances in Cleveland. Herm does not in KC - currently. I don't know exactly what is going to change Herm's hand here but I think the departure of Carl would help. I'm not fond of Herm's philosophy or many of his decisions but I do acknowledge that he's been dealt a very difficult hand.
I'm not necessarily a Herm backer but I don't think we've seen Herm with the necessary tools to be successful in today's NFL. If he's provided the tools and still fails I'll be in with the lynch mob. Until then, we have to understand what a legitimate rebuilding feels like - this is it. Anger isn't going to help anything. This team isn't going to be competitive until at least 2009. Accept it. Hope for the best.
If rebuilding is defined as an incompetent GM hiring a coach that has basically done nothing in his career and allowed him to destroy an offense using the philosophy that they score too fast, which in turn drags us down to the bottom of the NFL for several years so we can "get younger" through the draft and then fire said coach after about 4 years of sucking, and then hire a coach that knows what they're doing we might be on the right track.
It's called the Oakland plan and they have a head start on us.
I know, I'm one of the bitter ones. But I don't see us as rebuilding yet, we're still in full fledged free fall.
Phobia
01-01-2008, 02:04 PM
As far as gameday coaching goes, I don't see why anyone thinks Herm is even adequate. He isn't. It's obvious.
True. He's been terrible. I don't know if that's because he's stupid or because he's in a bad situation though. If he's stupid, there's no hope. If it's situational we might be okay in the long run. In either case, it's certainly painful to be a Chiefs backer ATM.
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