Mitch Holthus Said Something Interesting Today

[MTG#10]

Dont know if this has been posted or not, but I was listening to the radio today, and Mitch was being interviewed by on one of our (Springfield) sports talk shows. He hinted that we may not take any O lineman until later in the draft. He said there wasnt any "Robo-stud" (his words) O-lineman worth a 1st or even 2nd round pick. It sounded like we may not even look for O-lineman until 4th round or later.

This sounds completely foolish to me but given our history I wouldnt be the least bit surprised. :shake:

[Megbert]

PAPA JOHNS!!!!!11!!!!!!

[keg in kc]

I don't tend to trust anything I hear from anybody at Arrowhead about who they like in the draft until the day after it's over.

[xbarretx]

ok so no QB and no OL so that leaves DT DE and RB as for top 5 canidates? maybe we will take Ellis to boost our defense?

[CoMoChief]

If we don't at least take a stab at OT Anthony Collins in the 3rd round ........



IM GONNA BE PISSED OFF!!!!!!


So that means watch out.

[CoMoChief]

ok so no QB and no OL so that leaves DT DE and RB as for top 5 canidates? maybe we will take Ellis to boost our defense?
I'd take Lauranitis before Ellis.

[Hammock Parties]

Smokescreen.

[BigMeatballDave]

I am OK with not drafting OL in the 1st. They better get one in the 3rd, though.

[ROYC75]

Why tell the other teams what we want, or who we want ?

Sounds stupid to me ......

[BigMeatballDave]

I'd take Lauranitis before Ellis.Toss up.

[MTG#10]

He didnt say it was going to happen, he said "Chief fans shouldnt be shocked, blah blah blah" so take it for what its worth...

[StcChief]

BS they do this every year. false reporting It's just started earlier in 2008

[FAX]

I'm sure you heard this, Mr. MTG#10. I mean, I'm certainly not doubting you, but I'm not buying this.

First of all, the statement that there aren't any o-linemen worth even a 2nd round pick is absurd. I would like to think that Mitch is smarter than that.

FAX

[CoMoChief]

Toss up.
eh not really.

We've already been down that road of drafting a DT that high, not saying that DT's don't ever deserve to go that high, but Lauranitis is not only a great pick and IMO is the best defensive player in the draft, but also a safe one as well. Sims literally set this defense back 4 years. I don't want to waste another high draft pick like that.

I just don't see how Lauranitis will NOT be a star in the NFL.

It's like being able to draft AJ Hawk all over again.

[Eleazar]

I could buy that they pass on one with the first pick, because Long is gone and they don't think anyone else is worth that draft position or whatever. But there had better be at least 2-3 new starters on that line next year. If you count Waters' position change there should be 5 IMO

[BigMeatballDave]

eh not really.

We've already been down that road of drafting a DT that high.

I just don't see how Lauranitis will NOT be a star in the NFL.

It's like being able to draft AJ Hawk all over again.So, if Dorsey(I know he won't be) is available we shouldn't pick him?

[BigRedChief]

Smokescreen.
My first thought also. I also expcect to hear about us interested in a QB so maybe we become a threat to take a QB someone else wants and we get a sweet trade down deal.

[KCJohnny]

With our luck we pass on Jake Long and the Faders draft him to protect Russell.

[Mecca]

eh not really.

We've already been down that road of drafting a DT that high, not saying that DT's don't ever deserve to go that high, but Lauranitis is not only a great pick and IMO is the best defensive player in the draft, but also a safe one as well. Sims literally set this defense back 4 years. I don't want to waste another high draft pick like that.

I just don't see how Lauranitis will NOT be a star in the NFL.

It's like being able to draft AJ Hawk all over again.

I'd like to add that Laurinitis was awful in the championship game.

[StcChief]

My first thought also. I also expcect to hear about us interested in a QB so maybe we become a threat to take a QB someone else wants and we get a sweet trade down deal.
If they truely don't see any 'great value' at the top, I see a trade down.... Can't have to many picks when you blow 1/2 of them anyway

[kcxiv]

I'd take Lauranitis before Ellis.Thats who i want.

[kcxiv]

I'd like to add that Laurinitis was awful in the championship game.
So the other games he was great in dont count? he still had like 18 tackles in that game.

[Mecca]

Didn't say that...I just think he's a bit overrated. I don't think he should be a top 5 pick..hell I think Maualuga is a better NFL prospect as MLB, but I don't think he's coming out.

[BigMeatballDave]

eh not really.

We've already been down that road of drafting a DT that high, not saying that DT's don't ever deserve to go that high, but Lauranitis is not only a great pick and IMO is the best defensive player in the draft, but also a safe one as well. Sims literally set this defense back 4 years. I don't want to waste another high draft pick like that.

I just don't see how Lauranitis will NOT be a star in the NFL.

It's like being able to draft AJ Hawk all over again.He did NOTHING in the game vs. LSU.

[Mecca]

Hell I think there are other players on Ohio states defense that will be better NFL players than Laurantis, however you spell that damn name.

[BigMeatballDave]

I have a feeling the Chiefs may trade down in the 1st to pick up a 2nd. Unless J. Long is there. Well see.

[kcchiefsus]

Dont know if this has been posted or not, but I was listening to the radio today, and Mitch was being interviewed by on one of our (Springfield) sports talk shows. He hinted that we may not take any O lineman until later in the draft. He said there wasnt any "Robo-stud" (his words) O-lineman worth a 1st or even 2nd round pick. It sounded like we may not even look for O-lineman until 4th round or later.

This sounds completely foolish to me but given our history I wouldnt be the least bit surprised. :shake:

I wouldn't listen to a word he says. He obviously doesn't know shit about the draft if he thinks there are no offensive linemen worth 1st or 2nd round picks. He said last year to expect big trades and they never happened so I really don't believe a word he says.

[kcchiefsus]

With our luck we pass on Jake Long and the Faders draft him to protect Russell.

They draft before us so for us to have the opportunity to pass on him they would have passed on him as well.

[Mecca]

Ah well the bottom of ESPN news just said Laurenitis is returning for next season.

[Demonpenz]

of course he will stay another year he probably makes more money at osu

[MTG#10]

of course he will stay another year he probably makes more money at osu
More than Reggie Bush made at USC even.

[FAX]

.... Can't have to many picks when you blow 1/2 of them anyway

Another one of those "sad but true" things.

FAX

[Simplex3]

At least Mitch didn't say the fans are all stupid.

[Demonpenz]

i would like replay some of the shit that hothus said at the beginning of the season. "Donnie edwards is going to win 2 games by himself!"

[Mr. Laz]

repeat after me ....... "Mitch Holthus is a paid employee of the Kansas City Chiefs"

[Lonewolf Ed]

Why tell the other teams what we want, or who we want ?

Sounds stupid to me ......

All they have to do is watch some game film and they will know what KC wants.

[Mecca]

i would like replay some of the shit that hothus said at the beginning of the season. "Donnie edwards is going to win 2 games by himself!"

Well I guess we'd only have 2 wins without him!

[Micjones]

We haven't made a serious commitment to the Offensive Line in a long time. We've drafted middle round guys for years. It's not paying off.

[Mecca]

We haven't made a serious commitment to the Offensive Line in a long time. We've drafted middle round guys for years. It's not paying off.

I'd just like to point out of all these really good teams, only the Patriots have used a 1st round pick on one.

And it wasn't their LT either.

[schneider221]

last week on 810 someone was talking about very few of the teams still alive in the playoffs spent high round draft picks on the Oline. they also said if we plan on going to a denver like blocking scheme then the huge guys like long aren't needed as you prefer smaller and faster linemen.

[Buehler445]

I'd just like to point out of all these really good teams, only the Patriots have used a 1st round pick on one.

And it wasn't their LT either.

Not attacking you, just want your opinion. Who/where do you think we should draft for our O-line? You've talked a lot about other positions, but not too much (that I've seen...goddamn work) about the Oline. What are your thoughts?

[bkkcoh]

We haven't made a serious commitment to the Offensive Line in a long time. We've drafted middle round guys for years. It's not paying off.

Maybe they don't want to tip their hand at who they are going after. A dead give away will be who they have in KC for interviews and such.

[Tribal Warfare]

I'd take Lauranitis before Ellis.


Lauranitis is returning for his Senior year

[Mecca]

Not attacking you, just want your opinion. Who/where do you think we should draft for our O-line? You've talked a lot about other positions, but not too much (that I've seen...goddamn work) about the Oline. What are your thoughts?

I think you take them in the middle rounds, 2 and on is fair game I just don't think you get good value using high first round picks on Olineman. If you take a guy with a top 15 pick he better be hall of fame good at that position to take a lineman that high.

You get your playmakers in the first you get your other guys later.

[Buehler445]

I think you take them in the middle rounds, 2 and on is fair game I just don't think you get good value using high first round picks on Olineman. If you take a guy with a top 15 pick he better be hall of fame good at that position to take a lineman that high.

You get your playmakers in the first you get your other guys later.

Yeah, I got that part. Anybody in particular you want?

[Tribal Warfare]

If you take a guy with a top 15 pick he better be hall of fame good at that position to take a lineman that high.

You get your playmakers in the first you get your other guys later.


Michael Oher has that type of ability, and that's why I'm on his bandwagon. My obligatory pimping of Oher continues

[Zouk]

You get your playmakers in the first you get your other guys later.

Get on the DeSean Jackson bandwagon! Get a player who's a threat to score everytime he touches the ball.

Sedrick Ellis is a very good player - but as a nose and not a 3 technique, it's questionable whether he could be characterized as a "playmaker" either. I'm not seeing many playmakers in that 4 or 5 range actually.

[Tribal Warfare]

It seems like Herm may go for a CB in the 1st if Mitch has the "inside track"

[alanm]

i would like replay some of the shit that hothus said at the beginning of the season. "Donnie edwards is going to win 2 games by himself!"
Which two were those?

[Hootie]

we should just take the Chargers approach and draft everyone that has steroids in their past. Castillo and Merriman are terriffic.

[ChiefaRoo]

I like KC getting an OT or OG in the 2nd.

[Tribal Warfare]

F*CK IT !!!! Oher has declared Mitch will change his tune immediately

[xbarretx]

Smokescreen.

http://www.consoleclassix.com/info_img/Spy_Hunter_NES_ScreenShot4.jpg

indeed LMAO goatse

[xbarretx]

My obligatory pimping of Oher continues

make sure to keep it comming :toast:

[Chiefmanwillcatch]

smokescreen. second it.

[kcchiefsus]

I'd just like to point out of all these really good teams, only the Patriots have used a 1st round pick on one.

And it wasn't their LT either.

Maybe this year but that doesn't change the fact that the majority of the best left tackles are 1st round picks. Most of the rest are 2nd round picks. If you want a good left tackle, you take him in the first 2 rounds. For example, I will list the rounds the starting left tackles of the 12 playoff teams were drafted in:

New England, Matt Light- 2nd round
Indianapolis, Tony Ugoh- 2nd round
Jacksonville, Khalif Barnes- 2nd round
San Diego, Marcus McNeill- 2nd round
Pittsburgh, Marvel Smith- 2nd round
Tennessee, Michael Roos- 2nd round
New York Giants, David Diehl- 5th round
Dallas Cowboys, Flozell Adams- 2nd round
Seattle Seahawks, Walter Jones- 1st round
Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Luke Petitgout (starting LT before going on IR)- 2nd round
Washington Redskins, Chris Samuels- 1st round
Greey Bay Packers, Chad Clifton- 2nd round

Besides the Giants, every team has a left tackle drafted in the 1st 2 rounds. This does prove you can find a left tackle in the 2nd round but that doesn't mean you have to wait until the 2nd round. But anything beyond the 1st 2 rounds is pushing it.

[kcchiefsus]

I think you take them in the middle rounds, 2 and on is fair game I just don't think you get good value using high first round picks on Olineman. If you take a guy with a top 15 pick he better be hall of fame good at that position to take a lineman that high.

You get your playmakers in the first you get your other guys later.

23 of 32 starting left tackles were drafted in the 1st 2 rounds and 27 of 32 were drafted in the first 3 rounds. You don't get starting left tackles in the middle rounds very often. If you want one you have to use a high draft pick on one. Sorry but you are very mistaken if you think we can wait till the middle rounds.

[DaWolf]

Considering our team, outside of RB and TE, we better be taking the BPA at any position no matter the round. Of course that still better include OL...

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

We need to be drafting some better cheerleaders. We need to clean house on those skanks!

[Stryker]

I'd like to add that Laurinitis was awful in the championship game.

Here! Here!

My thoughts EXACTLY!

[CupidStunt]

I think you take them in the middle rounds, 2 and on is fair game I just don't think you get good value using high first round picks on Olineman. If you take a guy with a top 15 pick he better be hall of fame good at that position to take a lineman that high.

Do you hold WRs and CBs and DTs to this ridiculous standard?

You get your playmakers in the first you get your other guys later.

NFL GMs disagree, as illustrated clearly by others. The best LT in the league was a top-15 pick and the guy who will probably start at LT in Hawaii for the next 10 years was the third overall pick.

KC can't expect to draft any OL at the top of round two that may become the best at his position. On the other hand, if Michael Oher or Sedrick Ellis grade out high enough, you take either at No. 5 overall and hope that you end up with the best OT or DT in the league.

I'm not for or against OT at No. 5. It depends on who ends up being deemed worth the pick. But if all things are equal, you take the QB, LT or DE. If it's Michael Oher vs. Matt Ryan, give me Oher every time.

[Ultra Peanut]

Hell I think there are other players on Ohio states defense that will be better NFL players than Laurantis, however you spell that damn name.Just spell it "Ace."

[hawkchief]

Holtus is little more than a thinner Gretz. He's another Peterson-paid shill that will say whatever Carl puts in his mouth.

Sounds like we'll be taking O-line pick in all of the first 4 rounds.

[patteeu]

Did Mitch express his personal love for a WR in the first round to lineup opposite of Bowe?

[sedated]

Take the best player period.

Drafting is not about next year, it's about a 10 or 15 year career.

We had the best OLine in the NFL 4 years ago. People would have thought we were crazy to spend a first day pick on a tackle back then. But that would have paid off last year.

[KC Kings]

23 of 32 starting left tackles were drafted in the 1st 2 rounds and 27 of 32 were drafted in the first 3 rounds. You don't get starting left tackles in the middle rounds very often. If you want one you have to use a high draft pick on one. Sorry but you are very mistaken if you think we can wait till the middle rounds.

I agree that if we are going after left tackles we need to get one early, but I don't think LT is our number 1 priority. We still have 5 years of contract left in McIntosh, and while the preseason injury really hindered his performance this year, as long as we think he will be healthy for next season I think we have several other positions that might benefit more from a first rounder.

[milkman]

I agree that if we are going after left tackles we need to get one early, but I don't think LT is our number 1 priority. We still have 5 years of contract left in McIntosh, and while the preseason injury really hindered his performance this year, as long as we think he will be healthy for next season I think we have several other positions that might benefit more from a first rounder.

Damion McIntosh is a mediocre LT.

He was a stop gap player.

We need a guy that can man the position and play it at a high level for 10 plus years.

[FAX]

Damion McIntosh is a mediocre LT.

He was a stop gap player.

We need a guy that can man the position and play it at a high level for 10 plus years.

Amen.

FAX

[Direckshun]

Hell, nothing surprises me anymore.

It wouldn't surprise me if we draft LT, RT, and OG on the first day alone.

[kcchiefsus]

I agree that if we are going after left tackles we need to get one early, but I don't think LT is our number 1 priority. We still have 5 years of contract left in McIntosh, and while the preseason injury really hindered his performance this year, as long as we think he will be healthy for next season I think we have several other positions that might benefit more from a first rounder.

Damion McIntosh has never been able to stay healthy. "as long as we think he will be healthy for next season..." is alot to ask from a guy who has only played a full 16 game season only once in his 8 year career.

Anybody who doesn't think tackle is our #1 priority needs to think twice. Hell, right tackle is just as big of a need as left tackle for this team. But by improving at left tackle we could improve right tackle at the same time by being able to move McIntosh there.

[FAX]

Damion McIntosh has never been able to stay healthy. "as long as we think he will be healthy for next season..." is alot to ask from a guy who has only played a full 16 game season only once in his 8 year career.

Anybody who doesn't think tackle is our #1 priority needs to think twice. Hell, right tackle is just as big of a need as left tackle for this team. But by improving at left tackle we could improve right tackle at the same time by being able to move McIntosh there.

That's what I think, too, Mr. kcchiefsus. Upgrade bigtime at LT, move the Big Apple to RT, put Niswanter (sp?) in at center, and draft or find a RG in FA. Voila!!! Instant run game!!!

FAX

[Mecca]

That plan isn't really fool proof.......there's no guarantee Niswanger is any good to be honest.

[FAX]

That plan isn't really fool proof.......there's no guarantee Niswanger is any good to be honest.

True. Although Mrs. Niswanger (sp?) says he'll excel at center because he always ate a good breakfast.

FAX

[Mecca]

I just don't think as bad as this team is they should be talking about what positions they need. They need to take the best players period.

Any of them would start right away.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I think you take them in the middle rounds, 2 and on is fair game I just don't think you get good value using high first round picks on Olineman. If you take a guy with a top 15 pick he better be hall of fame good at that position to take a lineman that high.

Honestly, that's just moronic.

You take the best player, and if he happens to be an O-lineman you are a hell of a lot better off.

Any jerkass WR can get open if the line blocks. Any Maybach driving sonofabitch can hit the second level like a freight train if his line is blowing people off the ball.

You don't just draft a LT because you need one, but it is the second most important position on the field
Why don't these people get this? You build teams on the lines.

I honestly think spending high 1st round picks on WRs is idiotic. It's a dependent position, and they have the highest bust rate of anyone, save for maybe DTs.

[Mecca]

I don't care about bust rate......I could go back a couple drafts and go, Larry Fitzgerald or Robert Gallery...and Arizona already had 1 good WR and they still have the right player.

I'm just not a big fan of using a top 10 pick on an Olineman. The Chiefs have had plenty of good Lines and didn't win shit. It's all about that QB..I also find it ironic of the 4 teams still playing there's 1 first round lineman and it's a pick the Pats made when they were already good and were replacing a guy they lost in FA...

[FAX]

Mr. Mecca. You have to build a team around your lines. I'm surprised at you.

If that entails spending a high draft pick, so be it. We make no progress in any other position without a line.

FAX

[Mecca]

The Packers rebuilt their team over the last couple of years....

The 4 teams playing this weekend are examples that you don't have to use high first round picks on lineman. Especially in a deep tackle year like this one.

[philfree]

The Packers rebuilt their team over the last couple of years....

The 4 teams playing this weekend are examples that you don't have to use high first round picks on lineman. Especially in a deep tackle year like this one.

You don't have to but that doesn't mean you can't. That said I want the best player available to be taken with our first pick. IMO if we're gonna be a defense first team then taking a defensive player who is the best on the board is good thing. And from what I see there will be some OT on the board when we pick in the second. However if Long is on the board when we pick in the first and he's the best player we should pick him. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

PhilFree:arrow:

[milkman]

I don't care about bust rate......I could go back a couple drafts and go, Larry Fitzgerald or Robert Gallery...and Arizona already had 1 good WR and they still have the right player.

I'm just not a big fan of using a top 10 pick on an Olineman. The Chiefs have had plenty of good Lines and didn't win shit. It's all about that QB..I also find it ironic of the 4 teams still playing there's 1 first round lineman and it's a pick the Pats made when they were already good and were replacing a guy they lost in FA...

The Chiefs had good O-Lines, but they were deficient in other areas.

During the 90s it was a lack of playmakers and sorry QBs for most of the decade.

In recent years it was a lack of of defense.

These teams that remain in the playoffs have built more complete teams than the Chiefs have.

The fact is, those playoff teams have simply done a better job of drafting overall.

Take the best player available, regardless of position.

If that position happens to be LT, then take that guy.

[Coogs]

IMO if we're gonna be a defense first team then taking a defensive player who is the best on the board is good thing.

Yep! That would mean entering year 5 of the Gun revival of the defense would have another good player to add to the 3 other good players he has managed to add to the defense (Allen, Hali, and DJ). Another 7 or 8 years, and the defense should be complete! ;)

[philfree]

Yep! That would mean entering year 5 of the Gun revival of the defense would have another good player to add to the 3 other good players he has managed to add to the defense (Allen, Hali, and DJ). Another 7 or 8 years, and the defense should be complete! ;)

O.K. then have it your way. We'll just keep it the same and not try to improve.

PhilFree:arrow:

[crazychiefsfan]

:doh!: please no

[Coogs]

O.K. then have it your way. We'll just keep it the same and not try to improve.

PhilFree:arrow:

Phil,

This may be my opinion, and my opinion only, but here it goes anyway. The year after year turnover on the defensive side of the ball the last 4 years in an effort to give Gun the talent he needs to field a good defense is in direct proportion to the falling off of the talent on the offensive side of the ball. I'm placing our lack of upgraded talent on offense right on Gun's lap. And we still need a boatload of talent on defense to boot.

[MTG#10]

Yep! That would mean entering year 5 of the Gun revival of the defense would have another good player to add to the 3 other good players he has managed to add to the defense (Allen, Hali, and DJ). Another 7 or 8 years, and the defense should be complete! ;)
My patience with Gun is wearing thin as well. The defense looked phenomenal at times, but is still way too inconsistent for the amount of time he's had to build it.

[FAX]

My patience with Gun is wearing thin as well. The defense looked phenomenal at times, but is still way too inconsistent for the amount of time he's had to build it.

In Gun's defense, our DT rotation has sucked very much. Defenses can't defend without a good DT rotation - particularly one based on the C2.

You can't make a soufflé without souf.

FAX

[Hammock Parties]

In Gun's defense, our DT rotation has sucked very much.

That just means Gunther can't find a defensive tackle. Another strike against him.

[MTG#10]

You can't make a soufflé without souf.

FAX

No, but you can make chicken salad without chicken shit...or something like that. :p

[FAX]

That just means Gunther can't find a defensive tackle. Another strike against him.

Everybody said that Sims was Dick's choice? I thought Siaviiiiee was, as well.

FAX

[Hammock Parties]

Everybody said that Sims was Dick's choice? I thought Siaviiiiee was, as well.

FAX

Gunther was not around for Sims. But he was in Siavii's camp.

Why it would shock anyone is beyond me. The best defensive tackle Gunther managed to draft during his first stint as a Chief was John Browning, who was mediocre. He's been back for four years and has yet to find anyone even close to JB.

[Coogs]

In Gun's defense, our DT rotation has sucked very much. Defenses can't defend without a good DT rotation - particularly one based on the C2.

You can't make a soufflé without souf.

FAX


A 2nd round pick and a 3rd round pick last season..... sounds like the start of a good souffle. Should be up to the Chef I would think.

[FAX]

I understand what you guys are saying. But, do you honestly believe that Goonther is making those picks? I have no idea, but I question it. I'm certain he's saying, "We need some *&*^%@#@#)(#@* linemen!!", but I'm not so sure he's responsible for player evals and getting specific names on the board.

FAX

[Tribal Warfare]

since Malcolm Jenkins is returning to college, it seems like KC will be eyeing Ellis now, it will be interesting if they'll keep a close watch on the guy in the Senior Bowl

[Hammock Parties]

I understand what you guys are saying. But, do you honestly believe that Goonther is making those picks? I have no idea, but I question it. I'm certain he's saying, "We need some *&*^%@#@#)(#@* linemen!!", but I'm not so sure he's responsible for player evals and getting specific names on the board.

FAX

As a defensive coordinator he defintely has a hand in player evaluation. He definitely has input in the draft. The story goes that Gunther stood on the table for Siavii. I imagine he had some input into wanting Tank and Turk.

Why you want to defend Gunther so much is interesting...he shares as much blame as Herm and Carl for the state of this franchise. He ran it into the ground in his two years and has wasted countless dollars on free agent busts since returning.

Gunther has PROVEN beyond a shadow of a doubt he is a poor judge of talent, mediocre at best. The guy was in love with Kendrell Bell.

[FAX]

As a defensive coordinator he defintely has a hand in player evaluation. He definitely has input in the draft. The story goes that Gunther stood on the table for Siavii. I imagine he had some input into wanting Tank and Turk.

Why you want to defend Gunther so much is interesting...he shares as much blame as Herm and Carl for the state of this franchise. He ran it into the ground in his two years and has wasted countless dollars on free agent busts since returning.

Gunther has PROVEN beyond a shadow of a doubt he is a poor judge of talent, mediocre at best. The guy was in love with Kendrell Bell.

Ouch. The Kendrell Bell point is kinda sharp.

I'll admit that, to the extent that Goonther has control over who we draft and where, he's part of the problem, no question. I still wonder just how much control he has in that regard.

As for my defense of Gun, it's not so much that as trying to maintain a tiny smidge of perspective. It's difficult to run a defense with a deficient line and that's what he's being asked to do. And that's what Solari was trying to do on the other side of the ball, for that matter.

FAX

[Hammock Parties]

I'll admit that, to the extent that Goonther has control over who we draft and where, he's part of the problem, no question. I still wonder just how much control he has in that regard.


He probably has little control. But he has plenty of input. He gave Carl a list of defenders to get in free agency. Carl got them...which didn't work out so well.

Maybe Carl shouldn't trust Gunther's judgment anymore.

[Coogs]

As for my defense of Gun, it's not so much that as trying to maintain a tiny smidge of perspective. It's difficult to run a defense with a deficient line and that's what he's being asked to do.
FAX

How many more DT's are we going to have to run through before we are no longer deficient on the D-line? This is my point on Gun.... The rest of our team is suffering because of our constant trying to upgrade the talent for Gun.

All of us here knew how many holes this team had last season. Most all of us knew the O-line was in shambles. Yet we spent a 2nd and a 3rd to bring in two more DT's that have not done a whole lot to this point in time. (When we selected McBride there were too many comments being made from CP and Herm that we needed a fill in for Allen while Allen was suspended. If that is the sole reason for the pick... which I still wonder about as well... then we really need to evaluate our direction as a franchise.)

And yet here we are going into another off season with the same darn needs as last season, almost position for position. Every single position on the defense that was upgraded still has a question mark, including the OLB spot occupied by DE.

[FAX]

How many more DT's are we going to have to run through before we are no longer deficient on the D-line? This is my point on Gun.... The rest of our team is suffering because of our constant trying to upgrade the talent for Gun.

All of us here knew how many holes this team had last season. Most all of us knew the O-line was in shambles. Yet we spent a 2nd and a 3rd to bring in two more DT's that have not done a whole lot to this point in time. (When we selected McBride there were too many comments being made from CP and Herm that we needed a fill in for Allen while Allen was suspended. If that is the sole reason for the pick... which I still wonder about as well... then we really need to evaluate our direction as a franchise.)

And yet here we are going into another off season with the same darn needs as last season, almost position for position. Every single position on the defense that was upgraded still has a question mark, including the OLB spot occupied by DE.

Good points, every one, Mr. Coogs.

I guess I'm trying to figure out how Gun is 100% responsible for our failure to find a DT or two who can consistently contribute. I mean, we've been aggressively drafting into that position since 2002, as you say.

And another thing, some people claim that Herm is God's gift to player evaluation. Others say it's too early to tell. Which is it? Gun didn't tie Herm to his chair when they made those picks for Tank and Turk.

FAX

[Coogs]

Good points, every one, Mr. Coogs.

I guess I'm trying to figure out how Gun is 100% responsible for our failure to find a DT or two who can consistently contribute. I mean, we've been aggressively drafting into that position since 2002, as you say.

And another thing, some people claim that Herm is God's gift to player evaluation. Others say it's too early to tell. Which is it? Gun didn't tie Herm to his chair when they made those picks for Tank and Turk.

FAX

I don't know if he is 100% responsible or not. But it looks to me like it would be the job of the DC and the OC to sell the HC and CP on which players we need the most for our team to be successful.

I know they said we stuck with our board and drafted the best player available at the time. But if RB comes out to be the highest rated player on our board for 7 consecutive rounds, we surely wouldn't draft 7 straight RB's would we? (Don't answer that, you might scare me.)

4 straight years of a middle of the pack defense that still has a ton of holes that needs to be filled. That responsibility has to fall on somebody's shoulders. Gun has thrown several sets of shoulders under the bus already. It is getting down to the point where there is about only one set left.... His.

[BigRock]

The story goes that Gunther stood on the table for Siavii.
Who's story? Siavii's D-line coach at Oregon was another Vermeil buddy from St. Louis who sold Dick a bill of goods on how great his player was. Just like with Sims. And Dick believed it. Just like with Sims.

Why would Gunther even need to stand on the table? Dick was probably sitting there in the draft room beating off to Siavii's picture.

And the thing about Kendrell Bell is more of the same. People keep throwing around "Gun's wishlist" and how bad he wanted Bell, not mentioning that the guys Gunther REALLY wanted weren't signed. Bell was like the 3rd or 4th option. Gun got the leftovers on his list and now it's like "Hey, Gun, you got who you wanted".

Just because you can find some old interviews where Gun talked up Siavii or Bell AFTER we signed them doesn't mean he was begging Carl to get them. What's he going to do, cuss Carl for being a cheap ass and not signing the LBs he wanted?

Hell, Gun talked up the guys on D who were here when he came back, and we know that was BS. But he had no choice because Dick had already decided they weren't adding anybody.

[Mecca]

How many more DT's are we going to have to run through before we are no longer deficient on the D-line? This is my point on Gun.... The rest of our team is suffering because of our constant trying to upgrade the talent for Gun.

All of us here knew how many holes this team had last season. Most all of us knew the O-line was in shambles. Yet we spent a 2nd and a 3rd to bring in two more DT's that have not done a whole lot to this point in time. (When we selected McBride there were too many comments being made from CP and Herm that we needed a fill in for Allen while Allen was suspended. If that is the sole reason for the pick... which I still wonder about as well... then we really need to evaluate our direction as a franchise.)

And yet here we are going into another off season with the same darn needs as last season, almost position for position. Every single position on the defense that was upgraded still has a question mark, including the OLB spot occupied by DE.

I really hate that thinking, you don't not draft a top notch talent because the last time you drafted his position it didn't work out. Under that idea then the Bengals shouldn't have picked Carson Palmer or San Diego should have never picked another QB.

You just can't draft that way.

[beach tribe]

Good points, every one, Mr. Coogs.

I guess I'm trying to figure out how Gun is 100% responsible for our failure to find a DT or two who can consistently contribute. I mean, we've been aggressively drafting into that position since 2002, as you say.

And another thing, some people claim that Herm is God's gift to player evaluation. Others say it's too early to tell. Which is it? Gun didn't tie Herm to his chair when they made those picks for Tank and Turk.

FAX
Fact is Fax, that the people pimping Herm as great talent evaluator are merely false rumor spreaders. There is 0 evidence to the contrary.

[Coogs]

I really hate that thinking, you don't not draft a top notch talent because the last time you drafted his position it didn't work out. Under that idea then the Bengals shouldn't have picked Carson Palmer or San Diego should have never picked another QB.

You just can't draft that way.


So you keep drafting DT after DT after DT in hopes you get a DT at some point that can hold down the middle. Meanwhile, the rest of the team goes to crap. Wait a minute... that is where we are at isn't it?

[Mecca]

So you keep drafting DT after DT after DT in hopes you get a DT at some point that can hold down the middle. Meanwhile, the rest of the team goes to crap. Wait a minute... that is where we are at isn't it?

If I thought he was the best player on the board when I picked, yes I would. Of course I'm confident enough in my draft knowledge to not pick some scrub every time.

[BigChiefFan]

Do it until you get it right. If Ellis is there, pull the trigger.

[Tribal Warfare]

at #4 or #5? no thanks! trade down for more picks.

http://www.seniorbowl.com/2007/news/2008bigten.htm


your boy Jake Long isn't playing in the Senior Bowl LMAO