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View Full Version : Eli Mannng vs. Rivers/Peyton


FRCDFED
01-20-2008, 10:35 PM
Manning and Rivers will forever be linked due to the draft day trade and the Chargers caving in to the pressure from the Mannings. Eli will also forever be compared to Peyton.

Well, it's pretty easy to see who got the better end of the draft day deal so let's move on to the brotherly comparisons. Eli has accomplished more in his first four seasons than Peyton. I have made the statements before and I'll say it again........with all the adversity that Eli had been through I believe he makes better reads and check downs than Peyton and thus is a better all around QB.

I've always felt Peyton had it easy in Indy. He was blessed to have the WR's he's had since coming into the league. It's easy to hit a deer in an open field. Ask Eli how much skill it takes to put the ball in traffic and make reads.

Any comments?

Pablo
01-20-2008, 10:38 PM
Eli's become a pretty solid QB. He's a sight better than Rivers, and I'd be pretty damn happy if he was the Chiefs QB. That being said, he's about 1/2 of the QB Peyton is right now. He's still got time to improve, but he'll never escape his brother's shadow.

Mecca
01-20-2008, 10:38 PM
Who got the better end of that trade? I don't know if I'd say "hey that's an easy call"

That trade netted the Chargers Rivers, Merriman and Kaeding, it wasn't just straight 1-1.

Hammock Parties
01-20-2008, 10:38 PM
Eli has accomplished more because he has a much better defense than Peyton did during his first four years.

Eli played at a pretty average level in these playoffs. Of course, so did Manning in last year's playoffs.

Overall neither has lived up to the hype in the playoffs consistently.

Peyton's still a better quarterback. His accuracy is incredible at times. Eli...not so much.

Pablo
01-20-2008, 10:40 PM
Who got the better end of that trade? I don't know if I'd say "hey that's an easy call"

That trade netted the Chargers Rivers, "roidman" Merriman and Kaeding, it wasn't just straight 1-1.I'd easily take a franchise QB over a LB and a kicker. Rivers is garbage, he's a crybaby pussy and his arm strenth makes Damon Huard look like Brett Favre. Rivers is more of a liability to that Chargers team than anything.

milkman
01-20-2008, 10:42 PM
Eli's become a pretty solid QB. He's a sight better than Rivers, and I'd be pretty damn happy if he was the Chiefs QB. That being said, he's about 1/2 of the QB Peyton is right now. He's still got time to improve, but he'll never escape his brother's shadow.

After watching Eli in this post season, and Peyton in a number of them, I'd take Eli without a second thought.

Mecca
01-20-2008, 10:42 PM
I think it's great that everyone hates Rivers and thinks he's awful despite him winning 2 playoff games...he's up and down...much like Manning has been.

He played today on 2 bad knees, I don't think Rivers is nearly as bad as he's made out to be here.

blueballs
01-20-2008, 10:43 PM
Eli made his girlfriend set in the cold stands
because he thought she would jinx him from the suite
then didn't know where she was setting

milkman
01-20-2008, 10:45 PM
I think it's great that everyone hates Rivers and thinks he's awful despite him winning 2 playoff games...he's up and down...much like Manning has been.

He played today on 2 bad knees, I don't think Rivers is nearly as bad as he's made out to be here.

Rivers played well in this post season, but he's still an immature idiot.

FRCDFED
01-20-2008, 10:47 PM
Eli has accomplished more because he has a much better defense than Peyton did during his first four years.

Eli played at a pretty average level in these playoffs. Of course, so did Manning in last year's playoffs.

Overall neither has lived up to the hype in the playoffs consistently.

Peyton's still a better quarterback. His accuracy is incredible at times. Eli...not so much.
Your comments led me to think deeper into the situation. Especially the comment linking Eli's success to the defense. While the defense can keep a team in games the responsibility to score points, control the clock, and manage a game all fall on the shoulders of the QB and OC.

The media does not differentiate in the level of contribution a defense makes to a teams success when comparing QB's such as when they compare Peytons succes vs. Eli's. I've seen them compare just the QB's stats and making comments like "Peyton took 6 seasons before winning his first playoff game."

As we know, not all things are equal such as the OL protection, talent level of WR's, OC systems, coaching philosphies, etc.

With so many contributing factors, how can you say one QB is better than another without taking into consideration just one factor.....team success?

FRCDFED
01-20-2008, 10:49 PM
Rivers played well in this post season, but he's still an immature idiot.His actions can't help but bring up nightmares of the Wash St. QB.

Hammock Parties
01-20-2008, 10:49 PM
With so many contributing factors, how can you say one QB is better than another without taking into consideration just one factor.....team success?

Just look at the number of points the Giants had to score to win in the playoffs.

24
21
23

At some point a quarterback is going to have to put up 30. I don't think Eli can do that. We'll see how he does against the Patriots.

Mecca
01-20-2008, 10:50 PM
Dude he's nothing like Leaf..his teammates actually like him. He is immature but in a totally different kind of way.

Before I remotely say Eli is a top 5 QB he is gonna have to show it consistently. He's been good in the playoffs.

Hammock Parties
01-20-2008, 10:51 PM
He's been good in the playoffs.

Not really. He's been average. The best thing anyone can say about Eli these last three weeks is he hasn't thrown a pick. I guess Herm would love him.

FRCDFED
01-20-2008, 10:52 PM
Just look at the number of points the Giants had to score to win in the playoffs.

24
21
23

At some point a quarterback is going to have to put up 30. I don't think Eli can do that. We'll see how he does against the Patriots.You conveniently left out the number of points scored against the Pats in the final game of the season despite being a loss. Eli can put up big numbers if the OC turns him loose. Also in the playoffs you are playing the top teams in the conference which typically results in lower scoring games. Case in point: look at how many points the Pat scored in each of their playoff wins.

Mecca
01-20-2008, 10:52 PM
Also comparing Eli and Rivers...coming out of the AFC is much more difficult. I think SD is better than both the teams that played in the NFC title game today.

milkman
01-20-2008, 10:53 PM
Not really. He's been average. The best thing anyone can say about Eli these last three weeks is he hasn't thrown a pick. I guess Herm would love him.

He's made plays at crucial times.

That's good in my book.

FRCDFED
01-20-2008, 10:54 PM
Dude he's nothing like Leaf..his teammates actually like him. He is immature but in a totally different kind of way.

Before I remotely say Eli is a top 5 QB he is gonna have to show it consistently. He's been good in the playoffs.
Their like twins! o:-)

Mecca
01-20-2008, 10:55 PM
Did you see what Castillo said about him....."Phillip Rivers is the most courageous teammate I've ever had"

The guy is obviously liked and respected by his teammates. He isn't like Leaf, he has attitude and likes to talk shit but that doesn't mean he's Ryan Leaf.

DeezNutz
01-20-2008, 10:56 PM
Not really. He's been average. The best thing anyone can say about Eli these last three weeks is he hasn't thrown a pick. I guess Herm would love him.

He's looked pretty good to me, much better than he did throughout much of the regular season, and, given my QB-starved fantasy team, I had reason to keep a close watch. Sorry, but you're wrong here.

FRCDFED
01-20-2008, 10:56 PM
Did you see what Castillo said about him....."Phillip Rivers is the most courageous teammate I've ever had"

The guy is obviously liked and respected by his teammates. He isn't like Leaf, he has attitude and likes to talk shit but that doesn't mean he's Ryan Leaf.Admit it!! You wish Brees was still the QB!!

Mecca
01-20-2008, 10:57 PM
Admit it!! You wish Brees was still the QB!!

Brees has better stats but they've had better seasons with Rivers...

I know some things seem minute but just the fact that Rivers is about 4-5 inches taller than Brees allows him to do somethings Brees can't.

Pablo
01-20-2008, 10:58 PM
Did you see what Castillo said about him....."Phillip Rivers is the most courageous teammate I've ever had"

The guy is obviously liked and respected by his teammates. He isn't like Leaf, he has attitude and likes to talk shit but that doesn't mean he's Ryan Leaf.But it does mean he's a douchebag who likes to get "tough" with opposing fans. And he has a super-turd launcher for an arm.

Pablo
01-20-2008, 10:59 PM
Brees has better stats but they've had better seasons with Rivers...

I know some things seem minute but just the fact that Rivers is about 4-5 inches taller than Brees allows him to do somethings Brees can't.Be more susceptible to knee injuries?

FRCDFED
01-20-2008, 11:00 PM
Brees has better stats but they've had better seasons with Rivers...

I know some things seem minute but just the fact that Rivers is about 4-5 inches taller than Brees allows him to do somethings Brees can't.Rivers seems to have a cannon for an arm; however, the type of leader I would want leading my team would have an attitude more in line with what Brees has. He leads by example with his play on the field and doesn't have to run his mouth to prove anything or make up for any shortcomings. Typically, if you have a leader that runs his mouth like an immature punk, then the followers will display the same characteristics.

Mecca
01-20-2008, 11:00 PM
But it does mean he's a douchebag who likes to get "tough" with opposing fans. And he has a super-turd launcher for an arm.

I thought the talking shit to the fans was hilarious, hey that's him. He does it with the other players too, doesn't bother me. He has fire and passion on the field, some people don't like it, I do. I don't want the league to fill up with all these faceless players with no personality who say nothing.

Pablo
01-20-2008, 11:04 PM
I thought the talking shit to the fans was hilarious, hey that's him. He does it with the other players too, doesn't bother me. He has fire and passion on the field, some people don't like it, I do. I don't want the league to fill up with all these faceless players with no personality who say nothing.Rivers really doesn't do much for that team. They inserted Billy Volek and looked just fine. When you have a good defense, great RB and an excellent recieving corps lead by Antonio Gates all you have to do is not lose games. Not to mention a pretty excellent line.

FRCDFED
01-20-2008, 11:05 PM
I thought the talking shit to the fans was hilarious, hey that's him. He does it with the other players too, doesn't bother me. He has fire and passion on the field, some people don't like it, I do. I don't want the league to fill up with all these faceless players with no personality who say nothing.
I'm struggling to come up with another QB that talked shit to the fans this season. They are a rarity and only come along every so often. Strange how the Chargers have landed the last two.

Most find other ways to display their "passion."

Mecca
01-20-2008, 11:05 PM
It just amuses me that people hate Rivers and think he's a prick when the guy is the ultimate gamer. He went out there today and gutted it out and tried to win for his team. He showed guts, he possibly has a partial tear of his ACL and his other knee is screwed up yet he was out there...

I watched Tomlinson sit on his ass for 3 hours...yet somehow Rivers is this prick who no one respects..I don't get that, not at all.

Hammock Parties
01-20-2008, 11:07 PM
He's still a prick. When he was talking shit to Cutler earlier this year it was funny. You ask 32 GMs who'd they'd prefer to be on their team, and most would take Cutler.

Pablo
01-20-2008, 11:08 PM
It just amuses me that people hate Rivers and think he's a prick when the guy is the ultimate gamer. He went out there today and gutted it out and tried to win for his team. He showed guts, he possibly has a partial tear of his ACL and his other knee is screwed up yet he was out there...

I watched Tomlinson sit on his ass for 3 hours...yet somehow Rivers is this prick who no one respects..I don't get that, not at all.Wow..what a trooper. I don't respect Rivers because he is an average QB surrounded by all-pro talent, and they didn't get over the hump this year or last year. As long as Rivers is the QB, the Chargers will always come up short in big games. He's not there and he won't ever be. You could put Croyle on that Chargers squad, behind that line, and he'd do the exact same thing Rivers is doing.

FRCDFED
01-20-2008, 11:08 PM
It just amuses me that people hate Rivers and think he's a prick when the guy is the ultimate gamer. He went out there today and gutted it out and tried to win for his team. He showed guts, he possibly has a partial tear of his ACL and his other knee is screwed up yet he was out there...

I watched Tomlinson sit on his ass for 3 hours...yet somehow Rivers is this prick who no one respects..I don't get that, not at all.I think the answer to that has already been stated. Tomlinson is a gamer with skills. Rivers can more easily be replaced considering all the talent on that offense.

I am curious as to why LT sat out the game. His injury must be worse than previously stated. We will know in the next couple of days as he will surely have an MRI and surgery if it was bad enough to miss the game.

Mecca
01-20-2008, 11:09 PM
Hey that's great but I have nothing but respect for what Rivers did today. He was obviously ****ed up and he went out there and played, the ultimate gamer. All his teammates obviously have a great deal of respect for him.

He's kinda like the anti-Croyle I guess, partially torn ACL Phillip Rivers is on the field...Croyle is on the bench with a bruise or some such.

Hammock Parties
01-20-2008, 11:10 PM
He's looked pretty good to me, much better than he did throughout much of the regular season, and, given my QB-starved fantasy team, I had reason to keep a close watch. Sorry, but you're wrong here.

He just hasn't made too many plays. He's done a good job of limiting mistakes and for that he deserves credit. But elite QB? No way.

Mecca
01-20-2008, 11:10 PM
Wow..what a trooper. I don't respect Rivers because he is an average QB surrounded by all-pro talent, and they didn't get over the hump this year or last year. As long as Rivers is the QB, the Chargers will always come up short in big games. He's not there and he won't ever be. You could put Croyle on that Chargers squad, behind that line, and he'd do the exact same thing Rivers is doing.

Nah he wouldn't because Rivers has guts, you ever injure your knee? To act like what he did was no big deal is funny.

Never win big games eh, guess that game he played in Indy doesn't count.

FRCDFED
01-20-2008, 11:11 PM
Hey that's great but I have nothing but respect for what Rivers did today. He was obviously ****ed up and he went out there and played, the ultimate gamer. All his teammates obviously have a great deal of respect for him.

He's kinda like the anti-Croyle I guess, partially torn ACL Phillip Rivers is on the field...Croyle is on the bench with a bruise or some such.
This was a thread comparing Eli with Rivers and Peyton. Rivers' play hasn't given you enough ammunition so you change the topic to Croyle?

Come'on. Keep on point. Rivers will not be a big game QB. Too average. Too immature.

Pablo
01-20-2008, 11:11 PM
Without LT, Rivers is nothing.

Eli lost Tiki Barber, who I suppose is HOF material, and ran an offense with two decent running backs, two good WR's and a backup TE. And he still showed up big when it mattered. He looked really damn good in all three playoff games. The same cannot be said for Rivers, unless showing up is getting hurt and taunting fans, all the while pouting like a little girl.

Hammock Parties
01-20-2008, 11:12 PM
The same cannot be said for Rivers, unless showing up is getting hurt and taunting fans, all the while pouting like a little girl.

Actually Rivers had two very good playoff games. Rivers' first two games were better than Eli's, no question whatsoever. He was the playmaker driving San Diego's offense.

Rivers is already a much more accurate QB than Eli has ever been.

DeezNutz
01-20-2008, 11:13 PM
He just hasn't made too many plays. He's done a good job of limiting mistakes and for that he deserves credit. But elite QB? No way.

I agree that he missed a few throws today--the one to Steve Smith stands out. But I think you're understating his accuracy tonight in very bad conditions. Given the situation, he played about as well as anyone could IMO.

He's not a top 5 QB in the league. No way. But neither is Rivers, for that matter.

Hammock Parties
01-20-2008, 11:14 PM
Given the situation, he played about as well as anyone could IMO.


I agree with that. And I'm not real high on either QB to be honest with you. They are both mediocre right now.

Mecca
01-20-2008, 11:14 PM
How much did LT play against the Colts...oh yea...

I'm not saying Rivers is better than Manning is, I'm saying the attitude people have about him is hilarious. You'd think he was the worst QB ever.

People see what they wanna see, I've come to this realization people hate players that have personality unless they are on their teams. "Oh look at Rivers what a punk"

blueballs
01-20-2008, 11:14 PM
LT kept his helmet on so you couldn't see his pouty face

FRCDFED
01-20-2008, 11:15 PM
Actually Rivers had two very good playoff games. Rivers' first two games were better than Eli's, no question whatsoever. He was the playmaker driving San Diego's offense.

Rivers is already a much more accurate QB than Eli has ever been.What? No way. Eli was putting balls into places that only his WR had a chance to get them. Eli is maturing nicely into a top 5 QB. The man has nerves of steel. Think of all the adversity he has had to overcome.

dirk digler
01-20-2008, 11:15 PM
Rivers earned my respect today. He went out and played on bad knee and didn't play all that bad. Plus I don't think I saw him trash talk once the whole game

Pablo
01-20-2008, 11:15 PM
Hey that's great but I have nothing but respect for what Rivers did today. He was obviously ****ed up and he went out there and played, the ultimate gamer. All his teammates obviously have a great deal of respect for him.

He's kinda like the anti-Croyle I guess, partially torn ACL Phillip Rivers is on the field...Croyle is on the bench with a bruise or some such.You're right. He is anti-Croyle, Brodie can throw anywhere on the field with strength, and he has yet to taunt fans.

Hammock Parties
01-20-2008, 11:16 PM
What? No way. Eli was putting balls into places that only his WR had a chance to get them.

You're reading too much into one game. Eli has never been an accurate QB and probably never will be. He has never completed 60 percent of his passes.

FRCDFED
01-20-2008, 11:16 PM
People see what they wanna see, I've come to this realization people hate players that have personality unless they are on their teams. "Oh look at Rivers what a punk"
It's pretty easy to see a QB talking smack to fans. That was most likely universal even in the eyes of a homer.

Mecca
01-20-2008, 11:17 PM
You're right. He is anti-Croyle, Brodie can throw anywhere on the field with strength, and he has yet to taunt fans.

When Rivers gets hit or even injured he picks himself up and goes on...Croyle gets some sort of injury and goes and sits down...

Look Rivers doesn't have the best arm in the world or the best set of "natural talent" but I'll tell you what. I think his intangibles are better than Croyles by a long shot and I trust he'll be on the field.

There have been a ton of guys with cannon arms that can "make all the throws" that never panned out to shit. You better have a lot more than just "oh well his arm is strong".

blueballs
01-20-2008, 11:18 PM
Denver homos loved Plummer flipping them off

Pablo
01-20-2008, 11:18 PM
How much did LT play against the Colts...oh yea...

I'm not saying Rivers is better than Manning is, I'm saying the attitude people have about him is hilarious. You'd think he was the worst QB ever.

People see what they wanna see, I've come to this realization people hate players that have personality unless they are on their teams. "Oh look at Rivers what a punk"Not many people really like their rivals players. Rivers plays for the Chargers..so by default I already dislike him. I don't like Jay Cutler, but he is twice the talent Rivers is.

The only reason I like people like T.O. and Rivers talking trash is so they can shut the f*ck up when they lose. That's it. Personality is fine. Jared Allen has personality...is he a f*cktard like Rivers? No.

dirk digler
01-20-2008, 11:19 PM
You're reading too much into one game. Eli has never been an accurate QB and probably never will be. He has never completed 60 percent of his passes.

Yeah but the last 4-5 games Eli has been pretty damn good. He is the #1 reason why they are going to the SB

Mecca
01-20-2008, 11:19 PM
It's pretty easy to see a QB talking smack to fans. That was most likely universal even in the eyes of a homer.

Talking smack to the other teams fans, who cares? It's not like he flipped off his own stadium....

Football fans talk smack to each other, who cares. They probably razzed him all day he gave some back. I don't even think it's a big issue.

FRCDFED
01-20-2008, 11:19 PM
You're reading too much into one game. Eli has never been an accurate QB and probably never will be. He has never completed 60 percent of his passes.
I actually think that next season will be a good one to measure his progress after having so much success this season. Of course, a lot of that depends on any upgrades the team makes. I will agree that his completion percentage is not great up to this point. However, you cannot ignore the improvement in his completion percentage over the last ten to twelve games. He is spreading the ball better with the emergence of Smith and re-emergence of Toomer.

Mecca
01-20-2008, 11:20 PM
Not many people really like their rivals players. Rivers plays for the Chargers..so by default I already dislike him. I don't like Jay Cutler, but he is twice the talent Rivers is.

The only reason I like people like T.O. and Rivers talking trash is so they can shut the f*ck up when they lose. That's it. Personality is fine. Jared Allen has personality...is he a f*cktard like Rivers? No.

I hope all players show personality, I don't want the league to become this nameless faceless league where no one has any personality and they are just robots.

dirk digler
01-20-2008, 11:20 PM
When Rivers gets hit or even injured he picks himself up and goes on...Croyle gets some sort of injury and goes and sits down...

Look Rivers doesn't have the best arm in the world or the best set of "natural talent" but I'll tell you what. I think his intangibles are better than Croyles by a long shot and I trust he'll be on the field.

There have been a ton of guys with cannon arms that can "make all the throws" that never panned out to shit. You better have a lot more than just "oh well his arm is strong".

I am not a big Croyle fan but that is a load of BS. Croyle got hit more times in 1 game than Rivers has all year.

I saw Brodie take some wicked shots this year and bounce right back up

Hammock Parties
01-20-2008, 11:21 PM
Yeah but the last 4-5 games Eli has been pretty damn good. He is the #1 reason why they are going to the SB

Their defense is actually.

Pablo
01-20-2008, 11:22 PM
Eli is taking his team to the Superbowl. End of story. Beating the Packers at Lambeau with Brett Favre magic and all that bullshit is no easy feat. The NFC is a weaker conference, no doubt, but to act like the Chargers would steamroll the Packers or Giants is ludicrous.

FRCDFED
01-20-2008, 11:22 PM
Their defense is actually.
:spock:

Mecca
01-20-2008, 11:22 PM
I am not a big Croyle fan but that is a load of BS. Croyle got hit more times in 1 game than Rivers has all year.

I saw Brodie take some wicked shots this year and bounce right back up

Hey just sayin, Rivers supposedly has a partial tear of his ACL and he was playing...Croyle sat with what was it a some sort of bruise...

Anyway just their histories say Rivers is more durable.

Hammock Parties
01-20-2008, 11:22 PM
However, you cannot ignore the improvement in his completion percentage over the last ten to twelve games.

What improvement?

Eli's completion percentage in December was 50.6.

Mecca
01-20-2008, 11:23 PM
Eli is taking his team to the Superbowl. End of story. Beating the Packers at Lambeau with Brett Favre magic and all that bullshit is no easy feat. The NFC is a weaker conference, no doubt, but to act like the Chargers would steamroll the Packers or Giants is ludicrous.

Well I think they're a better team, they wouldn't "steamroll" them but San Diego is better than those 2 NFC teams.

FRCDFED
01-20-2008, 11:23 PM
Hey just sayin, Rivers supposedly has a partial tear of his ACL and he was playing...Croyle sat with what was it a some sort of bruise...

Anyway just their histories say Rivers is more durable.What does this have to do with Eli vs. Rivers and the level of maturity being displayed by Rivers during/after games.

Hammock Parties
01-20-2008, 11:24 PM
:spock:

Why is this so confusing? The Giants held Tampa Bay to 14, Dallas to 17 and Green Bay to 20. All of these games were on the road. Have you been living under a rock? New York's incredible pass rush might be the best in the league. Tonight they totally shut down Green Bay's running game.

dirk digler
01-20-2008, 11:24 PM
Their defense is actually.

I disagree. The game plan for every team playing the Giants used to be stop the run and let Eli try to beat you because you knew he was going to throw 2-3 INT's a game.

It is no coincidence they have played their best football when Eli hasn't thrown 1 INT

Hammock Parties
01-20-2008, 11:25 PM
I disagree.

Again look at the numbers. New York's defense has been throttling people.


It is no coincidence they have played their best football when Eli hasn't thrown 1 INT

Great he's the perfect QB for Herm Edwards.

dirk digler
01-20-2008, 11:25 PM
Hey just sayin, Rivers supposedly has a partial tear of his ACL and he was playing...Croyle sat with what was it a some sort of bruise...

Anyway just their histories say Rivers is more durable.

The same thing happened with Rivers last week didn't it? He got hurt and couldn't come back in the game and then played this week.

Croyle got hurt and then came back the following week.

Pablo
01-20-2008, 11:26 PM
I hope all players show personality, I don't want the league to become this nameless faceless league where no one has any personality and they are just robots.Arguing and making angry 12 year old faces at fans doesn't equal personality. I watch football for the game, I don't care about some stupid f*ck making predictions or telling me to get my popcorn ready..or yelling at fans/coaching staffs/their own team. If T.O. scores a touchdown and has a nice celebration, fine. I'd just like him to shut his mouth off the field about popcorn, Jessica Simpson, etc.

Mecca
01-20-2008, 11:26 PM
What does this have to do with Eli vs. Rivers and the level of maturity being displayed by Rivers during/after games.

I have to use comparisons people understand around here, I suspect most people around here watch other teams and follow the league but some posts I read honestly make me think some posters don't watch any teams but the Chiefs.

Mecca
01-20-2008, 11:27 PM
The same thing happened with Rivers last week didn't it? He got hurt and couldn't come back in the game and then played this week.

Croyle got hurt and then came back the following week.

Did Croyle not start a game then sit out a week due to some injury?

FRCDFED
01-20-2008, 11:27 PM
Hey just sayin, Rivers supposedly has a partial tear of his ACL and he was playing...Croyle sat with what was it a some sort of bruise...

Anyway just their histories say Rivers is more durable.
I wouldn't say having a torn ACL (or whatever the injury is) and still playing makes you durable. Broke is broke. The argument could be that his immaturity could have cost his team the game. Maybe he should've yielded to Volek. It may have given the Chargers a better chance to win. We will never know. That is why that whole "courageous" statement made by Castillo sounded ignorant. Rivers could have potentially cost them the game. The only saving grace for him is that playing vs. not playing was the coaches decision. Unless Rivers wasn't completely honest about how bad the pain was and the effect it was having on his playing ability.

Hammock Parties
01-20-2008, 11:28 PM
Did Croyle not start a game then sit out a week due to some injury?

You're comparing apples to oranges. I'm sure Croyle would have played if it was the AFC Champ.

FRCDFED
01-20-2008, 11:28 PM
I have to use comparisons people understand around here, I suspect most people around here watch other teams and follow the league but some posts I read honestly make me think some posters don't watch any teams but the Chiefs.
:thumb:

Mecca
01-20-2008, 11:29 PM
Arguing and making angry 12 year old faces at fans doesn't equal personality. I watch football for the game, I don't care about some stupid f*ck making predictions or telling me to get my popcorn ready..or yelling at fans/coaching staffs/their own team. If T.O. scores a touchdown and has a nice celebration, fine. I'd just like him to shut his mouth off the field about popcorn, Jessica Simpson, etc.

See I don't see what the problem with what TO does is, it's not like he's some guy who gets arrested or is some thug. I think over time that's become one of my issues with the league.

A guy like TO is considered a worse guy than someone like Randy McMichael who's been arrested for beating his wife multiple times. The quiet guy that beats his wife is more ok than the guy who does nothing bad but speaks his mind, how's that alright?

Pablo
01-20-2008, 11:29 PM
Tamba Hali wasn't courageous for playing injured most of this season. He was stupid. I know it isn't the same concept because we weren't in a big game situation. If you're hurt, sit the hell down. The team ran smooth with Billy Volek in there, a 80% Phillip Rivers is not going to beat the Patriots.

Mecca
01-20-2008, 11:30 PM
I wouldn't say having a torn ACL (or whatever the injury is) and still playing makes you durable. Broke is broke. The argument could be that his immaturity could have cost his team the game. Maybe he should've yielded to Volek. It may have given the Chargers a better chance to win. We will never know. That is why that whole "courageous" statement made by Castillo sounded ignorant. Rivers could have potentially cost them the game. The only saving grace for him is that playing vs. not playing was the coaches decision. Unless Rivers wasn't completely honest about how bad the pain was and the effect it was having on his playing ability.

He's immature because he played WTF? Now that is just some bullshit because you don't like Rivers. If Favre does that he's a hero, Rivers does it and he's immature, jesus christ.

dirk digler
01-20-2008, 11:31 PM
Again look at the numbers. New York's defense has been throttling people.



Great he's the perfect QB for Herm Edwards.

They have been playing like that all season. Minus the first 2 games of the season where they gave up 45 and 35 pts they have kept their opponents to under 21 pts almost every game except against the Pats.

If you look at Eli's stats he threw an INT in 12 games this season.

In the playoffs 0.

Mecca
01-20-2008, 11:31 PM
Tamba Hali wasn't courageous for playing injured most of this season. He was stupid. I know it isn't the same concept because we weren't in a big game situation. If you're hurt, sit the hell down. The team ran smooth with Billy Volek in there, a 80% Phillip Rivers is not going to beat the Patriots.

Um they had no chance with Billy Volek, not one. He led them to a big score against the Colts but they aren't winning a playoff game with him.

Hammock Parties
01-20-2008, 11:32 PM
They have been playing like that all season. Minus the first 2 games of the season where they gave up 45 and 35 pts they have kept their opponents to under 21 pts almost every game except against the Pats.

If you look at Eli's stats he threw an INT in 12 games this season.

In the playoffs 0.

Which makes him adequate, not elite.

FRCDFED
01-20-2008, 11:32 PM
He's immature because he played WTF? Now that is just some bullshit because you don't like Rivers. If Favre does that he's a hero, Rivers does it and he's immature, jesus christ.
Selfish would've probably been a better way to say it. I think Volek would've given them a better chance to win (not that I wanted them to win but just say'n).

dirk digler
01-20-2008, 11:33 PM
Did Croyle not start a game then sit out a week due to some injury?

It must have happened in the Raider game because he didn't play against the Chargers at home.

dirk digler
01-20-2008, 11:34 PM
Which makes him adequate, not elite.

I never said elite I just said he is the #1 reason why they are going to the SB. He is on a hot streak.

If he threw INT's in any of their games they lose

FRCDFED
01-20-2008, 11:35 PM
You just can't win with a "completely" immobile QB especially if they are injured and worried that the next hit would do some serious damage.

Pablo
01-20-2008, 11:35 PM
See I don't see what the problem with what TO does is, it's not like he's some guy who gets arrested or is some thug. I think over time that's become one of my issues with the league.

A guy like TO is considered a worse guy than someone like Randy McMichael who's been arrested for beating his wife multiple times. The quiet guy that beats his wife is more ok than the guy who does nothing bad but speaks his mind, how's that alright?T.O. isn't a bad guy. He's not a thug, he's not a total idiot. He seems to be a team player in Dallas, he's just annoying. He's a primadonna. A whole lot of WR's are, that's my beef with the position. Dwayne Bowe will start running his mouth, because I guess that's what stud WR's think they have to do. Will I be more tolerant, probably. That's because he plays for the Chiefs...it's a double standard and I don't care. Do I want him making stupid prediction in big game scenarios and giving the opposing team ammo, hell no. Do I care if he does or says something funny after he does something productive on the field, no.

That's the reward. Catch a TD, make a great play, then run your mouth or celebration or whatever. On the field, not away from it. The media loves to fish these guys out in the locker room.."Say something stupid and immature, and then we'll loop in on three ESPN networks for 3 days straight every 30 minutes." Drama sells. I f*cking hate Drama, don't like it in my personal life, didn't like the class in high school, I'll probably never appreciate the drama some statements professional athletes make. I just hate it.

Mecca
01-20-2008, 11:35 PM
Selfish would've probably been a better way to say it. I think Volek would've given them a better chance to win (not that I wanted them to win but just say'n).

I'm sorry but I think this is a horrible argument. It takes me back to what Owens said after playing in the Superbowl with a broken leg..."I do it everyone calls me a glory hound, Brett Favre does it, he's a hero"

And that's honestly how shit is, if someone people don't like does something courageous it turns into how it was bad for his team or all for his personal gain.

Pablo
01-20-2008, 11:37 PM
Um they had no chance with Billy Volek, not one. He led them to a big score against the Colts but they aren't winning a playoff game with him.They obviously can't win a playoff game against the Pats with an injured Rivers...or a healthy Rivers, and a healthy LT.

Hammock Parties
01-20-2008, 11:37 PM
I never said elite I just said he is the #1 reason why they are going to the SB. He is on a hot streak.


Hot streak would indicate elite.

The #1 reason is the defense. Sorry I just don't think much of Eli. :D

FRCDFED
01-20-2008, 11:42 PM
I'm sorry but I think this is a horrible argument. It takes me back to what Owens said after playing in the Superbowl with a broken leg..."I do it everyone calls me a glory hound, Brett Favre does it, he's a hero"

And that's honestly how shit is, if someone people don't like does something courageous it turns into how it was bad for his team or all for his personal gain.
I agree to a point. However, TO's injury did not impact his ability to make a huge impact in that game. Unexpectantly, McNabb was the one who choked.

In this case, Rivers' injury made him completely immobile thus impacting his ability to play the position.

In reality, choosing to play with a serious injury is almost always motivated by self interests. When the decision to play is made.........the player has to accept that the publics "PERCEPTION" will always be linked to two things:

1. The level of play displayed on the field: Poor by Rivers.

2. The final outcome: A loss.

You can't play like shit, lose, and still want to be viewed as a hero when there was an able bodied person standing on the sideline that could've given your team a better chance to win.

Mecca
01-20-2008, 11:46 PM
The Chargers didn't lose that game because Rivers was bad...they put up a lot of yards...their red zone play calling wasn't good..that was it.

When Cowher and Shannon wanted Rivers benched I thought they were complete retards and then Phil Simms said the same thing basically.

People just hate Rivers, the guy wasn't why they lost today, hey maybe if LT had as much heart as him they'd have won.

doomy3
01-20-2008, 11:48 PM
The Chargers didn't lose that game because Rivers was bad...they put up a lot of yards...their red zone play calling wasn't good..that was it.

When Cowher and Shannon wanted Rivers benched I thought they were complete retards and then Phil Simms said the same thing basically.

People just hate Rivers, the guy wasn't why they lost today, hey maybe if LT had as much heart as him they'd have won.


Yeah, Rivers has more heart than LT. That's it. :spock:

You say some stupid shit sometimes.

Mecca
01-20-2008, 11:51 PM
Yeah, Rivers has more heart than LT. That's it. :spock:

You say some stupid shit sometimes.

Which one was on the field in the game and which one wasn't? If LT wasn't more seriously hurt than they let on then I consider that a problem.

This is what you play for, you're one game away from the bowl. The guy with the partially torn ACL and strained MCL is out there giving it all he's got. Meanwhile the teams best player is moping around the sideline.

Also this mobile argument is funny. Rivers avoided several sacks today and has never been overly mobile. It's not like this was Vick without legs out there today.

doomy3
01-20-2008, 11:55 PM
Which one was on the field in the game and which one wasn't? If LT wasn't more seriously hurt than they let on then I consider that a problem.

This is what you play for, you're one game away from the bowl. The guy with the partially torn ACL and strained MCL is out there giving it all he's got. Meanwhile the teams best player is moping around the sideline.

Also this mobile argument is funny. Rivers avoided several sacks today and has never been overly mobile. It's not like this was Vick without legs out there today.

Yeah, I'm sure you're right, Mecca. You always are.

LT didn't play simply because he didn't want to. It was just too cold for him. They should cut him tomorrow.

Give me a freaking break. LT would have played if he could have. He gave it a go, and couldn't do it. Meanwhile, you talk shit from your basement. Hilarious.

Mecca
01-20-2008, 11:58 PM
They sure let on like he was fine....hey I assume he had something more seriously wrong with him. Rivers was certainly all ****ed up too he was out there.

And I'm not the one sitting here acting like Rivers is some bum, or Brodie Croyle is better than he is because he can throw a ball harder or stronger.

It's pretty damn obvious how much of a leader Rivers is to that team no matter how much people don't like him. He has major intangibles. but he'll always get shit on around here cause he's on the Chargers.

Dig the personal insult though, Chiefs Planet is always bringing the class, while bitching about a player they don't like because he they think he has no class...how ironic.

smittysbar
01-21-2008, 12:11 AM
A RB with a bum knee compaired to a QB. Is this a joke?

Mecca
01-21-2008, 12:13 AM
A RB with a bum knee compaired to a QB. Is this a joke?

Well hey you'd think Rivers was the worst QB in the NFL after reading this thread that's a joke too. Well nevermind I'm dealing with people who think Brodie Croyle's gonna be awesome cause he has a strong arm and that's about it.

smittysbar
01-21-2008, 12:16 AM
Rivers played with heart today. I couldn't believe the Half time crew saying that he needed to be benched. Boomer stuck up for him and said basically, Hell no! You use the guy that has been under center all year.

Mecca
01-21-2008, 12:19 AM
Simms called them stupid for that too...

DaneMcCloud
01-21-2008, 12:23 AM
I don't know if Rivers will ever play in a Super Bowl, but he showed his teammates what he's made of, on and off the football field today. He'll have the respect of that squad next year, without a doubt.

Eli has made tremendous leaps and bounds in his progress this year, much of that due to Gilbride and Palmer. The trio of Coughlin, Gilbride and Palmer got Jacksonville to the AFC Championship in only the Jag's third season. Now they've done it with the Giants but this time, the Super Bowl is in reach.

If only the Chiefs could be so fortunate to hire such a coaching staff...

Mecca
01-21-2008, 01:14 AM
http://forums.chargers.com/showthread.php?t=53180

Exactly. Dude you lay it all down on the field and at least get your team to the superbowl then sit out.

If you can walk without limping after sitting on a cold bench for 2 hours you can play in some fashion in the game.

My gut tells me that I dont think LT likes or wants to be on this team anymore. He hates rivers and i am half expecting him to demand a trade in the offseason.

Otherwize when you are the face of the franchise in the biggest game in the last 12 years you play PERIOD. Just like Rivers.

Charger fans don't seem very forgiving of LT.

Bill S Preston
01-21-2008, 01:54 AM
Eli would have lost to the Titans, Colts, and Patriots.

ChiefsFootball
01-21-2008, 02:06 AM
Eli would have lost to the Titans, Colts, and Patriots.


OMG ABSOLUTELY THE MF*N POINT!!! (Well, except insert the Chargers for Titans; I think the Giants could beat the Titans in a must win) Nailed it right on the head though. The Giants get spanked by any of those teams. How can you compare Eli and Peyton when E.Manning plays in the NFL Lite (NFC)...

Quiet Storm
01-21-2008, 02:52 AM
All credibility in this thread was lost in the first post.

PB LB, PB K, PB QB > Eli

kcxiv
01-21-2008, 03:09 AM
Eli's had a hell of a post season this year.

Jim Jones
01-21-2008, 06:27 AM
What the hell was LT supposed to do? He has a possibly torn ACL and plays RUNNING BACK. There's absolutely no reason for him to be out there because there's no way he can help the team by being out there with a ****ed up knee.

snatch
01-21-2008, 06:51 AM
I think it's great that everyone hates Rivers and thinks he's awful despite him winning 2 playoff games...he's up and down...much like Manning has been.

He played today on 2 bad knees, I don't think Rivers is nearly as bad as he's made out to be here.
He is horrible. Makes bad decisions and has a horrible attitude.

stonedstooge
01-21-2008, 09:10 AM
Now don't go doubting Mr. Mecca, he has an inside line to all the Doctors, coaches and trainers for San Diego and thus is able to make the determination that LT should have been on the field because he was walking around on the sidelines without a limp. And Rivers antics are classy and make the game "fun" for people. Mr. Mecca I really don't understand how a man that possess such knowledge and insight of all the players, coaches, teams, college players, fan attitudes, etc. is not working for an NFL team. Your expertise in every aspect of the game is almost frightening.

Chiefnj2
01-21-2008, 09:45 AM
I think the Chargers should have went with Voleck. Rivers threw a couple of dead ducks because he didn't have the strength of both legs. He made some mental errors as well. Nice gutsy story, but that's about it.

smittysbar
01-21-2008, 09:45 AM
I understand and agree that if LT had a bum knee there is not much he can do to help his team at the RB position. What I don't respect is the fact that he sat over on the bench, pouting. Get your ass up and get behind your team! He is supposed to be the leader of this team, if there ever was a time for someone to lead it was then.

FRCDFED
01-21-2008, 12:53 PM
All credibility in this thread was lost in the first post.

PB LB, PB K, PB QB > EliSomehow.........someway........the Giants managed to get to the SB without all of that talent. Absolutely amazing. To have the responsibility of making up for such lost talent makes Eli's accomlishments that much more incredible!

You do know you are talking about a LB who took performance enhancing drugs and the most immature QB in the league. I will give them credit for drafting Kaeding. He has proven to be a very reliable kicker.