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Tribal Warfare
01-25-2008, 07:46 AM
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/460222.html


Chiefs have streamlined methods for draft
By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star

MOBILE, Ala. | If the Chiefs still approached the draft as they always had, Tamba Hali and Jarrad Page probably wouldn’t be part of this team. Even if they were, both players likely would be buried on the bench.

That Hali and Page not only play for Kansas City but are starters and building blocks for what the Chiefs hope are better days ahead speaks to the changes they made in their draft process two years ago.

They hired Herm Edwards as head coach and promoted Bill Kuharich to vice president of player personnel, giving him considerably more voice in the draft room.

The results are encouraging. The Chiefs appear to have had two of their better drafts in recent memory. At least 11 of their 14 picks figure to be with the Chiefs next season, five as starters.

Hali, Page and Dwayne Bowe could develop into stars. The only obvious miss so far was kicker Justin Medlock, a fifth-round choice last year.

This gives the Chiefs, who have 10 picks this year, more hope.

“I’ve had the chance to watch the two of them together, and they’re very much on the same page,” said Chiefs chairman Clark Hunt, referring to Edwards and Kuharich. “It’s always important to have your head coach and the guy running your draft on the same page, and I think we’ve had two very good drafts. Unfortunately, those guys to this point have been too young to have a tremendous impact. Going into 2008, I would expect that 2006 draft class to have a tremendous impact.”

Edwards brought a stronger conviction that how a prospect played in college was more important than how he tested after the season at the combine and other workout sessions. That worked out well in the case of Hali, who tested poorly at the combine two years ago.

“It’s not so much about the raw numbers as it is how the player plays on tape,” Edwards said. “When you watched him on tape and then you watched him work out, he was a different guy. A lot of teams were scared away because he didn’t look good in his workouts. A lot of people at the combine were saying, ‘Oh-oh.’ I just had this smirk on my face, but I was hoping he kept doing badly.”

The Chiefs drafted Hali with their first pick that year, and he’s been a starter at defensive end ever since.

Page was a four-year starter at UCLA. His extensive playing experience at a major college counted for something.

“I like players that play early in his college career,” Edwards said. “Did he play as a freshman? That tells me something. The maturity of a guy coming right out of high school and playing college football as a freshman, especially at a big university, that tells me something. Not only does he have talent, but he’s got some mental toughness and maturity. The game won’t be too big for him.”

The Chiefs drafted Page in the seventh round, and he’s now a starting safety who has made several game-saving plays in his two seasons.

Edwards supplies the scouts with detailed instructions of what he wants in a player at every position. Included are the standard parameters for height, weight, speed and skill, but also instructions specific to Edwards.

At cornerback, for instance, man-to-man coverage skills are not enough. He also wants cornerbacks to be proven tacklers.

“I’d say Herm communicates better the things he’s looking for in players,” said Chuck Cook, the Chiefs’ director of college scouting. “We have a more concrete feel for what he’s looking for. When you go out and look at guys, there’s a checklist of what he considers to be the most important factors at that specific position. They’re specific things, not general things.

“Herm knows what he wants. He knows how to utilize players. He’s done a better job of targeting guys who can fit the scheme.”

At the same time, the Chiefs streamlined their draft process, including fewer voices. Coordinators Chan Gailey and Gunther Cunningham were the only assistant coaches who attended the Senior Bowl practices this week. The others stayed in Kansas City.

In the draft room during the event, assistant coaches and scouts used to come and go at their discretion and felt free to lobby for the selection of their favored players.

Now, scouts and assistants are present by invitation only. It’s easier for the Chiefs to reach a consensus when only Kuharich, Edwards and president/general manager Carl Peterson are present.

“Bill will use (scouts and assistants) to look at specific players,” Peterson said. “At the end of the day, he is certainly of the opinion that he will listen to his scouts and the assistant coaches when he’s deciding between certain players. But he likes to have as few people in the draft room as possible.

“It’s not a big group of people making the final decision. It ends up being three people.”

Then there’s Edwards’ willingness to use younger players. Twelve of their 14 draft picks under Edwards have played in a game and nine have started at least one game.

KCChiefsFan88
01-25-2008, 08:47 AM
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“I’ve had the chance to watch the two of them together, and they’re very much on the same page,” said Chiefs chairman Clark Hunt, referring to Edwards and Kuharich. “It’s always important to have your head coach and the guy running your draft on the same page, and I think we’ve had two very good drafts.

Apparently the Chiefs new "improved" and "streamlined" draft process means decreasing Dictator Carl's influence in the draft process.

ILikeBigTiddys
01-25-2008, 08:49 AM
Some reason this gives me hope. :banghead:

jjchieffan
01-25-2008, 08:54 AM
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/460222.html


[b][size=5]

MOBILE, Ala. | If the Chiefs still approached the draft as they always had, Tamba Hali and Jarrad Page probably wouldn’t be part of this team. Even if they were, both players likely would be buried on the bench.

That Hali and Page not only play for Kansas City but are starters and building blocks for what the Chiefs hope are better days ahead speaks to the changes they made in their draft process two years ago.


I may have to take Mecca of ignore to hear his take on this, since he thinks Hali and Page wouldn't be starters anywhere else in the nfl. His reaction should be hilarious.

TrebMaxx
01-25-2008, 09:04 AM
Now, scouts and assistants are present by invitation only. It’s easier for the Chiefs to reach a consensus when only Kuharich, Edwards and president/general manager Carl Peterson are present.


I was enjoying this read until....
:cuss:

Skip Towne
01-25-2008, 09:24 AM
I heard they were going to the time tested eeny meeny miney mo.

Chiefnj2
01-25-2008, 09:26 AM
Cutting Gunther out of the evaluation process on draft day may be a good thing.

To say Hali wouldn't be playing if DV is coach is just one of the continual re-writing of history in the blame all things on DV era. DV did play his early draft choices - Minnis, Sims, Freeman, DJ.

HemiEd
01-25-2008, 11:05 AM
Cutting Gunther out of the evaluation process on draft day may be a good thing.

To say Hali wouldn't be playing if DV is coach is just one of the continual re-writing of history in the blame all things on DV era. DV did play his early draft choices - Minnis, Sims, Freeman, DJ.

Yep, the legends grow on. DV was all things bad, I would have loved to read what they would have said about the really bad coaches.

Wile_E_Coyote
01-25-2008, 11:49 AM
Since Pollard's name is glaringly missing from the list. Does this mean Wesley will be re-signed?

BigChiefFan
01-25-2008, 01:29 PM
So now we are actually drating that players that can play? It's only taken twenty years to figure it out.

Tribal Warfare
01-25-2008, 01:38 PM
So now we are actually drating that players that can play? It's only taken twenty years to figure it out.


If you notice KC does have a history picking a top performer in the Senior Bowl

keg in kc
01-25-2008, 01:42 PM
Cutting Gunther out of the evaluation process on draft day may be a good thing.

To say Hali wouldn't be playing if DV is coach is just one of the continual re-writing of history in the blame all things on DV era. DV did play his early draft choices - Minnis, Sims, Freeman, DJ.Yeah, Vermeil was amazing in the draft. He left a roster just stocked with young talent.

Chiefnj2
01-25-2008, 01:46 PM
Yeah, Vermeil was amazing in the draft. He left a roster just stocked with young talent.
Yes, it was all Vermeil's fault. Those Gunther drafts and the last few drafts of Marty were great. With first day draft talent like Bartee, Cloud, Riley, Sheehee, Lockett and QB Barnes why in the world did DV try the free agent route? His cupboard was overflowing.

BigChiefFan
01-25-2008, 02:09 PM
I think your both right. The cupboard was bare and has been for All of Carl's coaches, thus giving ample evidence to his incompetentcy.

Chiefnj2
01-25-2008, 02:11 PM
I think your both right. The cupboard was bare and has been for All of Carl's coaches, thus giving ample evidence to his incompetentcy.

Exactly, the common denominator was Stiles and Carl.

keg in kc
01-25-2008, 02:24 PM
Yes, it was all Vermeil's fault. Those Gunther drafts and the last few drafts of Marty were great. With first day draft talent like Bartee, Cloud, Riley, Sheehee, Lockett and QB Barnes why in the world did DV try the free agent route? His cupboard was overflowing.This is going to be long-winded. I apologize.

Since I'm known to occasionally (or frequently) say things like "the Chiefs haven't drafted well since 1993" I wouldn't argue with your point, in general.

However, the failures of Schottenheimer and Cunningham only go so far when it comes to an analysis or even a justification of the failures of Vermeil. The fact of the matter is that 2001 to 2005 were horrible years when it comes to the acquisition and development of young talent, regardless of what came before. Could you say he was continuing an established trend? I suppose so. But the key word is "continuing". He didn't fix it. One could even argue that he made it worse. Who's responsible for that? Martyocre? Gun? Of course not.

Along the same lines, Vermeil's shortcomings don't/won't excuse Edwards. His job is to fix this franchise, and if he hasn't shown any progress in that regard 12 months from now, it'll all be on his shoulders. The team was in shambles in 2006, and the wheels fell off in 2007. Those are facts. But another fact is that he's had two offseasons of his own to build around, and a third's approaching. The last vestiges of Vermeil's tenure will likely be gone by the time the season starts; this is completely Edwards' team now, and the success/failure of it will be his responsibility and his alone.

Another way to put it is that pointing out the shortcomings of one coach is not necessarily a defense of or an excuse for another. Marty put the franchise in a tailspin in the late 90s. Gun was a hiccup who (in my opinion) basically swirled around the bowl for two years, and did nothing positive for the Chiefs. Vermeil and his staff were, on one hand, very savvy in free agency and trades with offensive talent, but were absolutely incompetent when it came to the acquisition of veteran talent on defense, and draft picks in general.

Those characteristics are all mutually exclusive. End result: they were all bad, in their own respect.

In the end, much like Vermeil spent 2001 and 2002 building his team up from where Marty and Gun left it, Edwards spent 2006 and 2007 building his team up from where Vermeil left it. And just like the 2003-2005 Chiefs, which were entirely Vermeil's creations, the Chiefs of 2008 and beyond will be Edwards'. And that's where he should ultimately be judged.

In my opinion at least.

Sermon over.

Otter
01-25-2008, 02:47 PM
Cutting Gunther out of the evaluation process on draft day may be a good thing.

To say Hali wouldn't be playing if DV is coach is just one of the continual re-writing of history in the blame all things on DV era. DV did play his early draft choices - Minnis, Sims, Freeman, DJ.

One of my good friends brothers had a class at FSU with "Snoop" and burst out laughing when I mentioned the Chiefs drafted him that year.

And I quote "that guy is dumber than a bag of hammers". Bill (the guy at FSU) isn't exactly nudging for a Mensa spot I might add. This guy is a professional beach bum and rarely makes a peep when discussing things like GPA.

If I correctly remember the class Bill took with him it was "History the Modern Era" and the guy was giving answers like "he was short" on test questions about Napoleon. Now that might be a nice little addition to your essay answer on Napoleon but that was the answer - "he's short".

My point is if I could find out the level of Snoop's stupidity from a friends brother why did Vermeil draft him and expect him to learn the play book behind that complicated offense Saunders was running?

Vermeil's draft were horrible. He very well might have done better if he pulled names out of a hat.

Makes one wonder about FSUs application requirements as well.

Chiefnj2
01-25-2008, 02:55 PM
One of my good friends brothers had a class at FSU with "Snoop" and burst out laughing when I mentioned the Chiefs drafted him that year.

And I quote "that guy is dumber than a bag of hammers". Bill (the guy at FSU) isn't exactly nudging for a Mensa spot I might add. This guy is a professional beach bum and rarely makes a peep when discussing things like GPA.

If I correctly remember the class Bill took with him it was "History the Modern Era" and the guy was giving answers like "he was short" on test questions about Napoleon. Now that might be a nice little addition to your essay answer on Napoleon but that was the answer - "he's short".

My point is if I could find out the level of Snoop's stupidity from a friends brother why did Vermeil draft him and expect him to learn the play book behind that complicated offense Saunders was running?

Vermeil's draft were horrible. He very well might have done better if he pulled names out of a hat.

Makes one wonder about FSUs application requirements as well.

I have no doubt that Snoop would give miss teen South Carolina a run for her money on Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader. By some miracle of osmosis or another scientific property not yet unraveled, he was able to learn the FSU playbook which I'm sure isn't simple and required a little more knowledge than "Napoleon was short"; which by the way is a correct answer and gives you a B+ average at FSU.

Consistent1
01-25-2008, 04:15 PM
I may have to take Mecca of ignore to hear his take on this, since he thinks Hali and Page wouldn't be starters anywhere else in the nfl. His reaction should be hilarious.

This is kind of of-topic, but you guys "ignoring" people always cracks me up. It is, shall we say, a little snobbish. The azzhats and idiots are part of what makes these boards fun. Never have understood the idea of doing that. I always like to see what the guys I don't like post next. Get over yourself.

Mecca
01-25-2008, 04:24 PM
We'll see what happens, looking at Herms draft history and what he wants to do. If it was completely up to him he'd probably take Ellis, now Carl he'd take Jake Long..guess we'll find out.

keg in kc
01-25-2008, 05:33 PM
This is kind of of-topic, but you guys "ignoring" people always cracks me up. It is, shall we say, a little snobbish. The azzhats and idiots are part of what makes these boards fun. Never have understood the idea of doing that. I always like to see what the guys I don't like post next. Get over yourself.I usually put people on ignore to protect them from me. Because I can be a real asshole if I start to bulldog somebody. I figure it's better for everyone if I don't.

milkman
01-26-2008, 08:48 AM
I usually put people on ignore to protect them from me. Because I can be a real asshole if I start to bulldog somebody. I figure it's better for everyone if I don't.

No, actually, it isn't better for everyone.

HMc
01-26-2008, 09:31 AM
This is kind of of-topic, but you guys "ignoring" people always cracks me up. It is, shall we say, a little snobbish. The azzhats and idiots are part of what makes these boards fun. Never have understood the idea of doing that. I always like to see what the guys I don't like post next. Get over yourself.

Or putting someone on ignore, then bringing them up randomly and saying "maybe i'll have to take him off ignore to see what he says here!"

What a toss.

FAX
01-26-2008, 10:06 AM
Good dang post, Mr. keg in kc. You are quite correct that, from this point forward, the DV rationale won't play (at least it shouldn't). Not only will Herm have had sufficient time to rebuild the team in his image, Clark and Carl have repeatedly stated that he'll have everything he needs and wants. Herm will have no excuses from this point.

Not only that, but the team you see this coming season will represent Herm's philosophy played out on the field. If he does not or cannot win, it's on him.

FAX

siberian khatru
01-26-2008, 10:20 AM
This is going to be long-winded. I apologize.

Since I'm known to occasionally (or frequently) say things like "the Chiefs haven't drafted well since 1993" I wouldn't argue with your point, in general.

However, the failures of Schottenheimer and Cunningham only go so far when it comes to an analysis or even a justification of the failures of Vermeil. The fact of the matter is that 2001 to 2005 were horrible years when it comes to the acquisition and development of young talent, regardless of what came before. Could you say he was continuing an established trend? I suppose so. But the key word is "continuing". He didn't fix it. One could even argue that he made it worse. Who's responsible for that? Martyocre? Gun? Of course not.

Along the same lines, Vermeil's shortcomings don't/won't excuse Edwards. His job is to fix this franchise, and if he hasn't shown any progress in that regard 12 months from now, it'll all be on his shoulders. The team was in shambles in 2006, and the wheels fell off in 2007. Those are facts. But another fact is that he's had two offseasons of his own to build around, and a third's approaching. The last vestiges of Vermeil's tenure will likely be gone by the time the season starts; this is completely Edwards' team now, and the success/failure of it will be his responsibility and his alone.

Another way to put it is that pointing out the shortcomings of one coach is not necessarily a defense of or an excuse for another. Marty put the franchise in a tailspin in the late 90s. Gun was a hiccup who (in my opinion) basically swirled around the bowl for two years, and did nothing positive for the Chiefs. Vermeil and his staff were, on one hand, very savvy in free agency and trades with offensive talent, but were absolutely incompetent when it came to the acquisition of veteran talent on defense, and draft picks in general.

Those characteristics are all mutually exclusive. End result: they were all bad, in their own respect.

In the end, much like Vermeil spent 2001 and 2002 building his team up from where Marty and Gun left it, Edwards spent 2006 and 2007 building his team up from where Vermeil left it. And just like the 2003-2005 Chiefs, which were entirely Vermeil's creations, the Chiefs of 2008 and beyond will be Edwards'. And that's where he should ultimately be judged.

In my opinion at least.

Sermon over.


A-freakin-men.

It's going to be interesting to see if in the middle of next season Gretz is still writing that the previous regime left the cupboard bare and it takes awhile to restock. He'll probably keep writing that right up until Herm is fired, and then proceed to give the next coach a 4-5 year pass by blaming it all on Herm (that assumes that Gretz would still be around, which I actually doubt).

JohninGpt
01-26-2008, 01:46 PM
Teicher:Chiefs have streamlined methods for draft
:hmmm: The French have streamlined methods for war!

Logical
01-26-2008, 03:16 PM
Yeah, Vermeil was amazing in the draft. He left a roster just stocked with young talent.I don't think the point was that DV was an amazing drafter, but that it was a myth that he would not play young players.