Nick thinks Chiefs pick Ellis

[dirk digler]

He is on 38 the Spot

Ellis = 1st round
Carl Nicks = 2nd round

Discuss

[Hammock Parties]

This was in his mock draft last night.

http://kan.scout.com/2/724272.html

I'd appreciate some feedback.

[Tribal Warfare]

I hope the pick isn't doomed now :banghead:


Anyway, I hope it goes down that Ellis is the guy :rockon:



remember guys, KC has an affinity in picking top performers in the Senior Bowl with their 1st rounder.

[dirk digler]

This was in his mock draft last night.

http://kan.scout.com/2/724272.html

I'd appreciate some feedback.

I would be fine with that though with Nick's reputation he might have screwed the Chiefs. :)

[doomy3]

Damn, so we aren't pickig Ellis then. Just ****ing great.

[Mr. Laz]

Damn, so we aren't pickig Ellis then. Just ****ing great.
my first thought as well

[Hammock Parties]

Warpaint called Tamba Hali to the Chiefs two years ago. Not sure who was in our mock last year.

[siberian khatru]

Damn, and I was just starting to warm to Ellis.

[siberian khatru]

Didn't Carl Nicks play point guard on the Larry Bird Indiana State basketball team?

[doomy3]

This was in his mock draft last night.

http://kan.scout.com/2/724272.html

I'd appreciate some feedback.


I'd be pretty happy with that mock, but I don't see Richardson falling that far. Probably not Purify either. Seems like Nick just wanted to draft a bunch of Big 12 guys for some reason too.

[Hammock Parties]

Didn't Carl Nicks play point guard on the Larry Bird Indiana State basketball team?

That was a different Carl Nicks.

[Direckshun]

I'd prefer Cherilus or Williams over Nicks in the 2nd, but you can't argue with those two picks too badly.

I continue to think that may be just a hair too early for Nelson. I love the DT-OT-WR idea, but we need a different WR. Nelson wouldn't be too bad of a reach, though, and I wouldn't complain too badly. He's just not fast, like, at all. It's horrendous to assume he may be the next Welker, though, as Nelson's a bigger guy who is built to be physical, and Welker's a slippery speedster with great speed.

The rest of the Draft is feasible, and very well done. Chevis in the 4th and Lee in the 5th are great selections as CBotFs and great values at both picks. Benedict fits just about any OL scheme and if he falls to the 5th, he's a slam dunk. It's impossible to argue with drafting Forsett late in the Draft for RB depth, and while Purify is yet another big WR with poor speed, it's fair value in the 6th. I really doubt the Chiefs try to chase another 7th round QB since they're already into Thigpen, but it's so late in the Draft that they'll just be looking for any talent they can get.

Barry Richardson in the 6th is the only suggestion that I think is outlandish. After looking like a great first-day pick, and even a potential first rounder, Richardson has fallen like a rock. Not only to me, but to Draft charters around the country who thinks he's got no brains.

Well, be that as it may, he's going to be a decent second-day gamble for somebody. But I really doubt he sees the 5th round, much less the 6th.

All in all, a pretty fair Draft that doesn't try to cheat. Well done to Nick.

[Hammock Parties]

I continue to think that may be just a hair too early for Nelson.

Nick is in love with Jordy Nelson.

[Smell My Dump]

The mock is a good effort, but Kyle Wright would be a waste of a 7th round pick.

[Hammock Parties]

Nelson wouldn't be too bad of a reach, though, and I wouldn't complain too badly. He's just not fast, like, at all

Tell that to Aqib Talib.

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[kstater]

That was a great play.

[Smell My Dump]

Barry Richardson in the 6th is the only suggestion that I think is outlandish. After looking like a great first-day pick, and even a potential first rounder, Richardson has fallen like a rock. Not only to me, but to Draft charters around the country who thinks he's got no brains.

That's a good point and I'm suprised the South cameback and won on the last drive because Richardson was getting manhandled on the edge during that series over-and-over.

[ClevelandBronco]

That was a different Carl Nicks.

Don't tip your hand. You can charge for that kind of inside info.

[doomy3]

Don't tip your hand. You can charge for that kind of inside info.
:LOL: LMAO

[Direckshun]

Tell that to Aqib Talib.
Talib? Really? That's the name you're going to throw at me?

Like I said, I love going DT-OT-WR with the first three picks, but I thinkt he Chiefs are gunning for a deep threat that can return kicks. I think they're eyeballing a Dorien Bryant/Donnie Avery WR. I think Nelson could turn out to be a fine possession receiver, though.

[Hammock Parties]

Talib? Really? That's the name you're going to throw at me?

Like I said, I love going DT-OT-WR with the first three picks, but I thinkt he Chiefs are gunning for a deep threat that can return kicks. I think they're eyeballing a Dorien Bryant/Donnie Avery WR. I think Nelson could turn out to be a fine possession receiver, though.

Nelson can return kicks. I think his speed is underrated. He did very well at the Senior Bowl.

Anyway as for the clip, yes Talib isn't the fastest corner. But the thing that strikes me is how Nelson just accelerates away from him and leaves him eating dust. I don't see Nelson as a slow WR.

[Direckshun]

That's a good point and I'm suprised the South cameback and won on the last drive because Richardson was getting manhandled on the edge during that series over-and-over.
Richardson is going to be a gamble for whoever drafts him. I personall wouldn't gamble on him until the 6th round, 5th maybe. So if enough teams agree with me (which has, honestly, never happened in my life), Richardson is there.

Because he's got the measurables of a 1st rounder. It's just too seductive. He's pretty quick with good footwork and elite size. But he doesn't play with a brain and got spanked against elite DEs at the Senior Bowl.

Whoever drafts him has a project on their hands, and I honestly don't think he's got the heart of a guy who's willing to endure that process.

[Micjones]

That would be a great draft for the Chiefs.

Addresses a bunch of different areas.
I'd expect two or three of those draftees to be Day 1 starters.

[CoMoChief]

Tell that to Aqib Talib.

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ek0ANQ8bRfo&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ek0ANQ8bRfo&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

Shit Talib is just as every bit as slow. He runs a 4.7 40. Not too much faster than OT Joe Staley.

[Direckshun]

Nelson can return kicks. I think his speed is underrated. He did very well at the Senior Bowl.

Anyway as for the clip, yes Talib isn't the fastest corner. But the thing that strikes me is how Nelson just accelerates away from him and leaves him eating dust. I don't see Nelson as a slow WR.
That's fair. He hasn't impressed me with his speed, personally, and I don't think he's much of a deep threat at the next level. The only 40 times I've read of his are in the 4.6 range. Not good. And certainly not 1st day quality.

I guess we can wait 'til the combine, but even then it'll be hard. Big WRs are tough to gauge. Bowe didn't run that fast but he doesn't lose a lot of speed when he has his pads on because he's so strong, causing him to be a lot faster in the games.

But I think Bowe's an exception, seeing how he's an exceptional player, and Nelson's great value for a 4th round steal.

[the Talking Can]

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


now we have no chance, findthevoyagerhootie wins....

[Direckshun]

That would be a great draft for the Chiefs.

Addresses a bunch of different areas.
I'd expect two or three of those draftees to be Day 1 starters.
Oh hell, I'd expect at least five of them.

Ellis at DT
Nicks at LT
Nelson at WR
Jackson
...maybe Lee at the other CB
Benedict at RG

[kstater]

That's fair. He hasn't impressed me with his speed, personally, and I don't think he's much of a deep threat at the next level. The only 40 times I've read of his are in the 4.6 range. Not good. And certainly not 1st day quality.

I guess we can wait 'til the combine, but even then it'll be hard. Big WRs are tough to gauge. Bowe didn't run that fast but he doesn't lose a lot of speed when he has his pads on because he's so strong, causing him to be a lot faster in the games.

But I think Bowe's an exception, seeing how he's an exceptional player, and Nelson's great value for a 4th round steal.


In fairness, that 4.6 was last year was on an injured knee. He isn't the fastest out there, but I've seen him play a lot and dude catches virtually everything thrown his way. I'm biased and would be thrilled if the Chiefs got him, but I don't think he's making it to the 4th.

[Direckshun]

Hopefully Avery because I don't trust Purdue wideouts that come from Joe Tiller's system. Taylor Stubblefield, John Standeford, Vinny Sutherland were all training camp foddler in the NFL. In fact, there's not one Purdue WR on a NFL roster at the moment.
Yeah, Bryant wasn't very impressive at the senior bowl, either.

I think Bryant is a second-day gamble in the 4th or 5th.

[doomy3]

Oh hell, I'd expect at least five of them.

Ellis at DT
Nicks at LT
Nelson at WR
Jackson
...maybe Lee at the other CB
Benedict at RG


You think all those guys are going in first 2 rounds?

[BigChiefFan]

The kid from Nebraska is a total reach in the 2nd round. No thank you, we can do alot better.

[xbarretx]

This was in his mock draft last night.

http://kan.scout.com/2/724272.html

I'd appreciate some feedback.

to be honest if that happend id give the Chiefs a B+ if not an A on the draft. we build our Defense/o-line/backfield/and WR corps = Good draft

only things im unsure of is Nick in the 2nd (only b/c i think there will be better available at that pick)

Also part of me wouldnt be against a QB earlier than the 7th. but the other part says getting a QB early would be bad if we didnt upgrade our line. while we could get a QB in the first and a LT in the 2nd that would mean we miss out on Ellis who will be an instant impact player along side JA. too many decisions.... :BLVD:

[Direckshun]

In fairness, that 4.6 was last year was on an injured knee. He isn't the fastest out there, but I've seen him play a lot and dude catches virtually everything thrown his way. I'm biased and would be thrilled if the Chiefs got him, but I don't think he's making it to the 4th.
I don't put a lot of weight on 40 times anyway until the combine comes around.

To be honest, I was surprised he only registered a 4.6 because he looks like a solid 4.5 on the field.

But 4.5, especially if you're Nelson's size, makes you a solid possession receiver rather than a deep threat gunner. The Chiefs already have two big WRs that they like (Bowe as a #1, Webb as a reserve); they're definitely in the hunt for speed.

Now you could toss the BPA argument at me, as well as arguing that Bowe did surprisingly well as an occasional deep threat himself last year. Those are fair arguments, but I just don't think the Chiefs go for big WRs in the first three rounds unless it's some incredible steal, like Limas Sweed in the 3rd.

[Direckshun]

The kid from Nebraska is a total reach in the 2nd round. No thank you, we can do alot better.
He's not that much of a reach, if a reach at all. Nicks is a lot faster and a lot stronger than people give him credit for.

I'd be happy with Nicks in the 2nd. He's a decent candidate for LT.

Now, if the Chiefs truly commit to zone blocking, he's a bad fit, but I still don't know if that's what they're going to do.

[Direckshun]

You think all those guys are going in first 2 rounds?
Now, I'm saying they could start on the first day of the Chiefs' season.

Might have misunderstood you.

[keg in kc]

Sweet, that means we're taking Long.

[RustShack]

Would Patrick Lee fall to the 5th round?

[Hammock Parties]

Holy crap. I just checked and two years in a row we've successfully predicted the Chiefs first rounder. It's right there in black and white in the magazine - Tamba Hali and Dwayne Bowe.

[doomy3]

Now, I'm saying they could start on the first day of the Chiefs' season.

Might have misunderstood you.


Nope, just went back and re-read the original question. It wasn't my question, but you answered it correctly. I was the one that misread it.

Carry on.

[keg in kc]

Holy crap. I just checked and two years in a row we've successfully predicted the Chiefs first rounder. It's right there in black and white in the magazine - Tamba Hali and Dwayne Bowe.Brings to mind the saying about broken clocks being right twice a day.

[dj56dt58]

Great..is he going to go scrape Brodie off the ground when we take him over Long?

[doomy3]

Holy crap. I just checked and two years in a row we've successfully predicted the Chiefs first rounder. It's right there in black and white in the magazine - Tamba Hali and Dwayne Bowe.


I don't know what is funnier.

The fact that you guys actually stumbled into being right on one thing 2 years in a row.

Or the fact that you are literally shocked that you were actually right 2 years in a row on one thing.

Probably the fact that you are so surprised about actually being accurate on something is the most alarming thing.

[Direckshun]

Would Patrick Lee fall to the 5th round?
It's conceivable, and if he gets that far you have to pull the trigger. I'd draft him before Heath Benedict but that's me.

He's a great package but doesn't shine in any particular aspect. Good speed, good size, battle tested...

I bet he flirts with the 3rd round but 4th is likely. The 5th is also possible, and if that's the case, we should be on him like flies on cole slaw.

[xbarretx]

Holy crap. I just checked and two years in a row we've successfully predicted the Chiefs first rounder. It's right there in black and white in the magazine - Tamba Hali and Dwayne Bowe.

what about 05? you didnt think DJ?

and 04? did you pick that Lions get Kevin Jones and we get siavii? j/k ;)

who was picked for those years is what im really asking.

[doomy3]

It's conceivable, and if he gets that far you have to pull the trigger. I'd draft him before Heath Benedict but that's me.

He's a great package but doesn't shine in any particular aspect. Good speed, good size, battle tested...

I bet he flirts with the 3rd round but 4th is likely. The 5th is also possible, and if that's the case, we should be on him like flies on cole slaw.

I expect us to have a great 5th round for some reason. That first pick in that round and then being able to turn around 3 or 4 picks later and pick again will be good, and there should still be some pretty good talent left on the board.

[Direckshun]

I expect us to have a great 5th round for some reason. That first pick in that round and then being able to turn around 3 or 4 picks later and pick again will be good, and there should still be some pretty good talent left on the board.
This Draft is particularly deep on talent, so that's very possible.

Either way, I want our team to gun for 5 new starters. I want 5 new starters from this Draft. Maybe not on day 1, but at least by 2009.

[chop]

Is this the news that may "shock" Chiefs fans?

Nick quote "I could see Lee and Jackson starting as rookies."

Dumping both Law and Surtain.

[Mecca]

He's got Barry Richardson to low...

Other than that the only thing I'd really say is I'd rather have Eddie Royal than Jordy Nelson.

[Hammock Parties]

Is this the news that may "shock" Chiefs fans?



No.

[Mecca]

I'm waiting for the Jake Long people to jump in here and have a fit.

[Direckshun]

I'd really say is I'd rather have Eddie Royal than Jordy Nelson.
I'd probably say the same thing. I think they're both equal to me when I put some thought into it, but Royal's the speedy gunner this team needs.

[Mecca]

Royal is also a premier return man at both kicks and punts..

It's better to have a guy who can return and contribute on offense than just carry a returner.

[bowener]

Isnt ellis bigger than Dorsey? I know Dorsey is taller, but didnt Ellis just weigh in at 308, so bout 10 pounds bigger than Dorsey? Just wondering because Nick said he was smaller... also, does anyone have a current salary cap for the Chiefs? I am curious as to what kind of a hit we would take if we dumped both our CB's... I think we only lose $300K in penalties for Law, not sure on Surtain though.

Also, does anyone know why I cannot right click at all when using IE instead of Mozilla... its weird.

[ILikeBigTiddys]

You guys need to quit looking at 40 times and all the other bs. The question is, can the kid play in pads and is he a playmaker. So, Talib and Nelson are both draftable and thank god Herm follows this logic.

[xbarretx]

Isnt ellis bigger than Dorsey? I know Dorsey is taller, but didnt Ellis just weigh in at 308, so bout 10 pounds bigger than Dorsey? Just wondering because Nick said he was smaller... also, does anyone have a current salary cap for the Chiefs? I am curious as to what kind of a hit we would take if we dumped both our CB's... I think we only lose $300K in penalties for Law, not sure on Surtain though.

Also, does anyone know why I cannot right click at all when using IE instead of Mozilla... its weird.

did you try to reboot? did you recently update IE?

try typing

javascript:void(document.oncontextmenu=null)

into the URL and see if that fixes it.

[bowener]

did you try to reboot? did you recently update IE?

try typing

javascript:void(document.oncontextmenu=null)

into the URL and see if that fixes it.

Im going to trust you here and hope this doesnt do something 'exciting' to my computer.

[doomy3]

You guys need to quit looking at 40 times and all the other bs. The question is, can the kid play in pads and is he a playmaker. So, Talib and Nelson are both draftable and thank god Herm follows this logic.


Yeah, because Troy Smith, Chris Leak, Dwayne Jarrett and Maurice Clarette have all worked out in the NFL so well after having great college careers.

[bowener]

so I used java script:void(document.oncontextmenu=null) and it didnt do anything, just made the "no you cant do that," noise. I will just reboot in a bit. Thanks though.

[jjchieffan]

That would be a great draft for the Chiefs.

Addresses a bunch of different areas.
I'd expect two or three of those draftees to be Day 1 starters.

Given recent history, I don't look to see our first round pick do start game 1. That would require Carl to have him signed in time for camp.

[Mecca]

A WR or CB with a bad 40 will kill themselves. It's not as important at other positions but at those 2 it's real important.

[bowener]

I date all my women based on 40 times... rules out almost all the fatties, and the one legged ones too.

[xbarretx]

so I used java script:void(document.oncontextmenu=null) and it didnt do anything, just made the "no you cant do that," noise. I will just reboot in a bit. Thanks though.

your welcome, when it comes to PC's i dont :cuss: with people b/c that :cuss: has happened to me before...

you shoudl be able to right click unless a page has it turned off. in that case type what i said and it should turn it back on.

if rebooting doesnt work the only thing i could think of is if you can right click on your desktop to get to properties try going into Tools, internet options, and set your options back to default. maybe something changed? anyways, sorry i couldnt help

[OnTheWarpath15]

A WR or CB with a bad 40 will kill themselves. It's not as important at other positions but at those 2 it's real important.

Absolutely.

Other than that dipshit Kiper, just about every mock has Talib going in the late 1st/early2nd. And that's without an official time.

He gonna drop like a rock if he runs a 4.7 in Indy.

[doomy3]

Absolutely.

Other than that dipshit Kiper, just about every mock has Talib going in the late 1st/early2nd. And that's without an official time.

He gonna drop like a rock if he runs a 4.7 in Indy.


If he runs a 4.5 at the combine, and he is sitting there for our #2 pick, do we take him?

[bowener]

your welcome, when it comes to PC's i dont :cuss: with people b/c that :cuss: has happened to me before...

you shoudl be able to right click unless a page has it turned off. in that case type what i said and it should turn it back on.

if rebooting doesnt work the only thing i could think of is if you can right click on your desktop to get to properties try going into Tools, internet options, and set your options back to default. maybe something changed? anyways, sorry i couldnt help

Reboot solved whatever problem was causing my M$ programs to be ghey.

[xbarretx]

Reboot solved whatever problem was causing my M$ programs to be ghey.

:clap:

sweet, now im off to read Catcher in the Rye :p

[OnTheWarpath15]

If he runs a 4.5 at the combine, and he is sitting there for our #2 pick, do we take him?

That's impossible to say.

Who did we take in R1?

Who's still on the board, at the CB position, as well as everywhere else?

Now, if your saying CB in R2 no matter what, for sake of conversation.....

I'd say no.

Personally, I'd rather have someone like Patrick Lee, or Rodgers-Cromartie.

Cromartie is intriguing to me. Many looked at him as a mid-rounder before the Senior Bowl. His stock is rising, and I'm starting to think that it may be too early to grab him in R2, but that he'll be gone before our R3 pick.

[doomy3]

That's impossible to say.

Who did we take in R1?

Who's still on the board, at the CB position, as well as everywhere else?

Now, if your saying CB in R2 no matter what, for sake of conversation.....

I'd say no.

Personally, I'd rather have someone like Patrick Lee, or Rodgers-Cromartie.

Cromartie is intriguing to me. Many looked at him as a mid-rounder before the Senior Bowl. His stock is rising, and I'm starting to think that it may be too early to grab him in R2, but that he'll be gone before our R3 pick.


I agree. That's why I was asking. It is amazing to see a guy like Talib that is seen going anywhere from #6 to middle of the second round. I realize that we'll probably go OT in round 2, especially if we take Ellis in the first. If we take Long though, CB is probably the pick. I tend to like Cromartie a lot too.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I agree. That's why I was asking. It is amazing to see a guy like Talib that is seen going anywhere from #6 to middle of the second round. I realize that we'll probably go OT in round 2, especially if we take Ellis in the first. If we take Long though, CB is probably the pick. I tend to like Cromartie a lot too.

See, that's the thing.

This isn't a knock at you by any means, but fans tend to get worked up in the "need" game.

Logic would tell you that if we went Ellis in R1 we'd need to go OL in R2.

Or if we went OL in R1, we'd need to go CB in R2.

This is why fans are often disappointed on Draft Day. The team is going to stick to their board, and it's not based on need.

They may not draft an OL until R3.

They may go Ellis in R2 and a WR in R2.

The only thing I feel even remotely sure about is that we'll end up with either Ellis or Jake Long, unless they both happen to be off the board.

Then I'd honestly say I'd have no clue as to what they'd do.

[Eleazar]

Warpaint called Tamba Hali to the Chiefs two years ago. Not sure who was in our mock last year.

everybody else on earth did too, including whatever mock draft Nick Athan plagiarized

[Hammock Parties]

everybody else on earth did too

I wouldn't say that.

[Eleazar]

I wouldn't say that.

Both of those were the generally expected picks.

I bet he's got a bunch of other mock drafts open while he's making his and they are probably his primary/only sources.

But, you would take credit if WPI predicted the Chiefs would play at Arrowhead next year so I don't know why I'm arguing.

[Eleazar]

I'll give him credit, though. He said that Brady Quinn would fall to the Chiefs and that we'd take him. That's a pretty bold call.

Close, but no cigar.

Carl Peterson said publicly that week that if Quinn fell to the Chiefs that we would select him. I heard it said on the radio. In fact, that might have screwed us if the Browns had that piece of intel. I was sitting in class all day, watching the draft tracker, knowing that Carl had said this and expecting we would take him.

Once again, something reported in other media is his elite 'inside info'

[Hammock Parties]

Both of those were the generally expected picks.


Not necessarily.

[doomy3]

See, that's the thing.

This isn't a knock at you by any means, but fans tend to get worked up in the "need" game.

Logic would tell you that if we went Ellis in R1 we'd need to go OL in R2.

Or if we went OL in R1, we'd need to go CB in R2.

This is why fans are often disappointed on Draft Day. The team is going to stick to their board, and it's not based on need.

They may not draft an OL until R3.

They may go Ellis in R2 and a WR in R2.

The only thing I feel even remotely sure about is that we'll end up with either Ellis or Jake Long, unless they both happen to be off the board.

Then I'd honestly say I'd have no clue as to what they'd do.

I am a BPA guy too. Just looking at the board though, if we don't take an OT in R1, I really believe that's where we need to take an OT in R2 even if he is a few slots below whoever our BPA is. and the reason I said corner in the second if we take Long is because there won't be a DT worth taking at the top of the 2nd, we won't take a RB, probably won't take a DE. I guess we could see a WR, QB, or LB there though, so who knows. Just seems like the value there at the top of the second will be at CB and OT.

[Hammock Parties]

Once again, something reported in other media is his elite 'inside info'

Not true at all. Nick received that info before Carl went on the radio.

[Eleazar]

Not necessarily.

If you weren't so busy swinging from his nutsack you'd remember both of those guys showing up commonly in mocks for the Chiefs.

[Eleazar]

Not true at all. Nick received that info before Carl went on the radio.

Was it from the same imaginary source who told him Dorrell was our new WR coach?

Or was it the person who told him Al Saunders was the head coach of the Lions?

Or - well, nevermind. I don't want to wear out my keyboard by quoting all the garbage he's guessed at.

[xbarretx]

you two keep on like that and im going to waste my entire beer as it shoots out my nose !!! LMAO

[Hammock Parties]

If you weren't so busy swinging from his nutsack you'd remember both of those guys showing up commonly in mocks for the Chiefs.

Not every mock. Anyway, the point of this is not to glorify WPI. The point is to put an end to the stupid "lol Nick said Ellis we're getting Long" garbage.

[Hammock Parties]

Was it from the same imaginary source who told him Dorrell was our new WR coach?

Sorry, none of Nick's sources are imaginary. Unless I was hallucinating when I met them.

[Mecca]

Even if the Chiefs took Ellis and Cromartie with their first 2 picks I'd consider those 2 good picks...

This draft is not Oline or bust, it's our team sucks we need core players at every position.

[Eleazar]

Not every mock.

Well no f*cking sh*t Sherlock. You mean not every mock draft is the same?

You need to quit swallowing, Nick's swimmers are contaminating your brain

[Hammock Parties]

Please be nice. It is nice to be nice.

[doomy3]

Even if the Chiefs took Ellis and Cromartie with their first 2 picks I'd consider those 2 good picks...

This draft is not Oline or bust, it's our team sucks we need core players at every position.


I would agree most years. I just think we are in a position with Brodie where we need to make a decision on him. There is no way to make that decision on him if he is always on his back. Unless we feel like the dropoff from CB is huge from the 2nd to 3rd and the value at tackle is pretty much even, then I think we have to address the OL in our first 2 picks.

[xbarretx]

Please be nice. It is nice to be nice.

they love and share
they share and love and share
love love love.....
share share share.....

http://www.zelan.be/files/Image/teasers/itchy_and_scratchy.jpg

[dirk digler]

Even if the Chiefs took Ellis and Cromartie with their first 2 picks I'd consider those 2 good picks...

This draft is not Oline or bust, it's our team sucks we need core players at every position.

:eek:

I disagree we have to get some O-Line in this draft preferably in either round 1 or 2 and then a couple in the later rounds

[Mecca]

So if the best player on the board is a corner and the best Oline available doesn't really stack up...you'd rather have the lineman?

That's how we've had bad drafts...

[RustShack]

Even if the Chiefs took Ellis and Cromartie with their first 2 picks I'd consider those 2 good picks...

This draft is not Oline or bust, it's our team sucks we need core players at every position.

If we went in that direction(I love both of those players) I think our line would look like this:

McIntosh-Waters-Niswanger-rookie-young FA

Hell I wouldn't be suprised to see that Jones? guy we picked up at the end of the year that was in NY with Herm start at RT/LT.

[xbarretx]

:eek:

I disagree we have to get some O-Line in this draft preferably in either round 1 or 2 and then a couple in the later rounds

i see yours and meccas' points but the bottom line is if we cant protect Brodie...we will never know what he can do and only what he cant do. well know that he can throw INTS and get Sacked just as good as damon. :(

so getting an OL upg is a moral imperative in my book since next years QB prospects suck (at least thats the general concensus)

[RustShack]

Or Niswanger could be the RG and us have a rookie center. I don't see Waters moving though.

[doomy3]

So if the best player on the board is a corner and the best Oline available doesn't really stack up...you'd rather have the lineman?

That's how we've had bad drafts...


I would, simply because the atrocious OL we have right now is killing the development of too many other players. I understand what you're saying, but our OLine is bad enough that I really think we need to address it high in this draft.

[Mecca]

My personal belief that in todays game, you need elite level D players to matchup due to the rules and the way these teams are playing now.

I think you can build a good offense out of the first round outside of QB or a possible elite player who'd be an exception. But generally I think more 1st rounders should go to D than O.

[el borracho]

Even if the Chiefs took Ellis and Cromartie with their first 2 picks I'd consider those 2 good picks...

This draft is not Oline or bust, it's our team sucks we need core players at every position.
I wish you were our GM. We absolutely do need Oline help but people have to understand that we are not one offseason away. We have a plethora (yes, a plethora!) of needs.

[MadMax]

I wish you were our GM. We absolutely do need Oline help but people have to understand that we are not one offseason away. We have a plethora (yes, a plethora!) of needs.


Absolutely true.. I sure hope they get it right.

[dirk digler]

So if the best player on the board is a corner and the best Oline available doesn't really stack up...you'd rather have the lineman?

That's how we've had bad drafts...

It depends but if it is close take the O-lineman. We have only 3 returning and if we don't get Brodie some protection we will never know what he can do and IMO that is most important thing next season.

[Mecca]

I wish you were our GM. We absolutely do need Oline help but people have to understand that we are not one offseason away. We have a plethora (yes, a plethora!) of needs.

I'm all about the fact that the first 2 players you take should be players ready to step in right away and be players for you. I would never fill my biggest need with those picks unless it worked out that way, I'd take who I thought the best guy was..

I start filling needs in the middle rounds, hey if I took Ellis and Cromartie in 3-5 I'd start looking at OL and seeing if anyone else I really liked fell. Regardless of position, you start grabbing 4+ productive starting players out of drafts that's how you build damn good teams.

[dirk digler]

i see yours and meccas' points but the bottom line is if we cant protect Brodie...we will never know what he can do and only what he cant do. well know that he can throw INTS and get Sacked just as good as damon. :(

so getting an OL upg is a moral imperative in my book since next years QB prospects suck (at least thats the general concensus)

I agree with you.

I would take Ellis in the 1st and then go O-Line in the 2nd round and then some in later rounds

[RustShack]

The defense is closer to being finished, the missing piece is right there and we have a great shot at getting it. Draft Doresy/Ellis and a CB later and start the next project which is the offense. You should always finish a house your building before you start building the next one.

[OnTheWarpath15]

i see yours and meccas' points but the bottom line is if we cant protect Brodie...we will never know what he can do and only what he cant do. well know that he can throw INTS and get Sacked just as good as damon. :(

so getting and OL upg is a moral imperative in my book. since next years QB prospects suck (at least thats the general concensus)

But that doesn't mean if we don't use one of our first 2 picks on OL we can't upgrade the position......

Getting a guy like Brandon Albert in the 3rd, and signing a RT in FA (Jordan Gross?) improves this line a ton. Plus this is a deep draft for OL, we could easily get another interior starter in rounds 3-6. Having 2 picks in the first 4 of the 5th round (Miami) will help a ton as well.

[xbarretx]

I agree with you.

I would take Ellis in the 1st and then go O-Line in the 2nd round and then some in later rounds

:toast:

Dirk, you sir are a gentleman and a scholar.

im really hoping we get ellis b/c Mec does have a good point regarding impact D players. im not saying that LT's are a dime a dozen but when the draft sets up like this...i think were sitting pretty in KC come draft day as it can only get better. amazing Defense rd one, then address and snag a good LT in the 2nd.. then begin to chip away at WR/CB etc...and all the others needs to fill this swiss cheese roster

[Mecca]

Also if you are going to have a coach like Herm you should probably focus on having an elite level D because he damn well coaches like you have one.

[xbarretx]

But that doesn't mean if we don't use one of our first 2 picks on OL we can't upgrade the position......

Getting a guy like Brandon Albert in the 3rd, and signing a RT in FA (Jordan Gross?) improves this line a ton. Plus this is a deep draft for OL, we could easily get another interior starter in rounds 3-6. Having 2 picks in the first 4 of the 5th round (Miami) will help a ton as well.

i agree 100% as long as we come out of this draft with some QUALITY players and OL help i wont complain (assuming we dont stock the boat with busts-gallore)

my main thing is BPA with all our picks and we SHOULD at least put a dent in the work needed to turn this ship around.

[dirk digler]

One thing to consider is going to be what the Chiefs do in FA. If they address the O-Line by adding 1-2 players then that could definitely change what they do in the draft

[Mecca]

But that doesn't mean if we don't use one of our first 2 picks on OL we can't upgrade the position......

Getting a guy like Brandon Albert in the 3rd, and signing a RT in FA (Jordan Gross?) improves this line a ton. Plus this is a deep draft for OL, we could easily get another interior starter in rounds 3-6. Having 2 picks in the first 4 of the 5th round (Miami) will help a ton as well.

Personally I think it's all about making this team better, some people lose sight of it like the dr guy who was telling us the other day we'd be better off with Joe Staley than Dwayne Bowe...

When you are bad enough to pick top 5 like we are that means you aren't 1 thing away, you need a ton of things. This is about getting the best possible players we can to have a good young core of players, not taking 8 OL because it's our perceived biggest need.

[dirk digler]

:toast:

Dirk, you sir are a gentleman and a scholar.

im really hoping we get ellis b/c Mec does have a good point regarding impact D players. im not saying that LT's are a dime a dozen but when the draft sets up like this...i think were sitting pretty in KC come draft day as it can only get better. amazing Defense rd one, then address and snag a good LT in the 2nd.. then begin to chip away at WR/CB etc...and all the others needs to fill this swiss cheese roster

Yep totally agree

[OnTheWarpath15]

One thing to consider is going to be what the Chiefs do in FA. If they address the O-Line by adding 1-2 players then that could definitely change what they do in the draft


Exactly.

Almost 2 full months to sign FA's before the draft.

I'd be willing to bet that the Chiefs are content with Mac at LT, and will try their damnedest to grab Jordan Gross or another relatively young FA RT.

This frees them up to grab OL at any time in the draft. Interior linemen are much easier to come by late than bookends.

I just don't think THEY think that LT is as big of an issue as the entire right side of the line.......

[doomy3]

My personal belief that in todays game, you need elite level D players to matchup due to the rules and the way these teams are playing now.

I think you can build a good offense out of the first round outside of QB or a possible elite player who'd be an exception. But generally I think more 1st rounders should go to D than O.


You've spent all season talking about how the key to winning in "Today's NFL" is to have elite players on offense and to have a killer, high powered Offense. Which is it?

[keg in kc]

I'd be willing to bet that the Chiefs are content with Mac at LT

I just don't think THEY think that LT is as big of an issue as the entire right side of the line.......What on gods green earth would make you think either of those things?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Personally I think it's all about making this team better, some people lose sight of it like the dr guy who was telling us the other day we'd be better off with Joe Staley than Dwayne Bowe...

When you are bad enough to pick top 5 like we are that means you aren't 1 thing away, you need a ton of things. This is about getting the best possible players we can to have a good young core of players, not taking 8 OL because it's our perceived biggest need.

You know you and I are in TOTAL agreement on this issue.

We're gonna have 5 picks in the first 140. All of them early in the round, 2 in the first 4 picks of R5.

There's no reason not to net at least 4-6 Day One starters or impact rotation guys out of 10 picks.

[Hammock Parties]

What on gods green earth would make you think either of those things?

Because Mac is a decent player.

[OnTheWarpath15]

What on gods green earth would make you think either of those things?

It's how they operate. They signed him to a 6 year deal. He's not going anywhere. And moving him to another position just makes the matter worse. Cohesion is key to OL play, which is why they won't move Waters unless they absolutely have to.

When he was healthy, which wasn't often, Mac wasn't the problem.

It was Wiegmann, Welbourn and Terry/Turley.

[doomy3]

You know you and I are in TOTAL agreement on this issue.

We're gonna have 5 picks in the first 140. All of them early in the round, 2 in the first 4picks of R5.

There's no reason not to net at least 4-6 Day One starters or impact rotation guys out of 10 picks.


I definitely agree with this.

[doomy3]

It's how they operate. They signed him to a 6 year deal. He's not going anywhere. And moving him to another position just makes the matter worse. Cohesion is key to OL play, which is why they won't move Waters unless they absolutely have to.

When he was healthy, which wasn't often, Mac wasn't the problem.

It was Wiegmann, Welbourn and Terry/Turley.


To be fair, there was a fair amount of leakage coming from the left side too.

[88TG88]

One thing to consider is going to be what the Chiefs do in FA. If they address the O-Line by adding 1-2 players then that could definitely change what they do in the draft
I agree, how we spend our FA money will dictate how we draft.

[OnTheWarpath15]

To be fair, there was a fair amount of leakage coming from the left side too.

Absolutely.

But that's gonna happen regardless of who's over there if they are playing on one leg like Mac was for half of the season.

Don't get me wrong, he's never gonna be confused with Jonathan Ogden.

But when healthy, Mac was just fine.

The left side is HOF material compared to the right side.

[keg in kc]

It's how they operate. They signed him to a 6 year deal. He's not going anywhere. And moving him to another position just makes the matter worse. Cohesion is key to OL play, which is why they won't move Waters unless they absolutely have to.

When he was healthy, which wasn't often, Mac wasn't the problem.

It was Wiegmann, Welbourn and Terry/Turley.You weren't paying attention in 2001 and 2002 if you think they won't move a guy across the line if they think they can upgrade the position.

And I'm not saying McIntosh is bad, I'm just wondering why you believe the team is just going to sit on their laurels and say "ah, he's okay", when they've so far given absolutely no indication that that's the case.

We'll see what happens in March and April, but I'd be a little surprised if they don't try to find something at LT. If for nothing else, because, as you mentioned, he couldn't stay on the field.

[Hammock Parties]

Here's some stats

Waters + McIntosh - 12 sacks allowed
Welbourn + Terry + Turley + Svitek - 24 sacks allowed

[keg in kc]

As for cohesion, it is the key to o-line play, but this line's getting blown up, and cohesion is something that develops during the offseason anyway. And in fact, part of the problem with the line as a whole last year may have been (and probably was) due to McIntosh's TC injury.

Either way, "cohesion" is not a particularly strong argument for keeping anyone on the line from 2007, and that includes (sadly) Brian Waters.

As for Waters, I think it's a valid question to ask just how good he is, and how much he benefitted from Roaf's presence, as well as Shields'. Only time will tell.

[Rasputin]

I'm on board with the Ellis pick. Just thinking bout JA, Ellis, Turk & TANK, & Tamba that could be one heck of a D line with the pressure they can get, & that can open up for Derrick Johnson big time too for some big time plays.

[OnTheWarpath15]

You weren't paying attention in 2001 and 2002 if you think they won't move a guy across the line if they think they can upgrade the position.

I was paying attention, but I doubt this current staff was, seeing as how they weren't here......

[Chiefnj2]

The defense is closer to being finished, the missing piece is right there and we have a great shot at getting it. Draft Doresy/Ellis and a CB later and start the next project which is the offense. You should always finish a house your building before you start building the next one.

You really think the defense is close to being finished? A DT, JA will likely be franchised which means it's only a 1 year solution. MLB could be ugraded while OLB and both Corners need to be replaced because of age. Pollard's ability is also questionable.

[keg in kc]

I was paying attention, but I doubt this current staff was, seeing as how they weren't here......The Chiefs are the Chiefs until they start to behave otherwise. What I mean by that is that this franchise has been exactly the same for about 15 years, regardless of who the coaches happen to be at the time.

[OnTheWarpath15]

You really think the defense is close to being finished? A DT, JA will likely be franchised which means it's only a 1 year solution. MLB could be ugraded while OLB and both Corners need to be replaced because of age. Pollard's ability is also questionable.

I think he meant the defense is closer to being finished compared to the offense.....

A very young DL, as well as OLB and Safeties.

Still a lot of work to be done, but a lot less than the offense.

Having a front four than can get pressure without blitzing is only going to help our secondary, which is going to be very young as well.

[RustShack]

Also a good Dline should help improve your LB and DB's play, which should also make it easyer on rookie/new players we get.

[Mecca]

You've spent all season talking about how the key to winning in "Today's NFL" is to have elite players on offense and to have a killer, high powered Offense. Which is it?

What I've said is you need to be a versatile offense that is willing to attack a team at their weakness. Throwing it 50 times, running it 40 whatever that team can't play. Not a "hey we're gonna run this no matter what"

I think you can build a damn good offensive unit without using a bunch of 1st rounders to do it..Dallas I believe has no players they spent a 1st rounder on, on their offense...

Just saying I'd favor D slightly to O if the guys were close especially if we're gonna have this head coach.

[Micjones]

So if the best player on the board is a corner and the best Oline available doesn't really stack up...you'd rather have the lineman?

That's how we've had bad drafts...

We need Offensive Line help from this year's draft class.
If Long isn't there at 5, I'd trade down and pick Clady up.
We'd get an extra #2 in return.

I won't mind this team taking Ellis though.
We'll need an Offensive Tackle in R2 (Otah?).

And I'm really doting on Rodgers-Cromartie in R3.

[chiefscafan]

somebody help me here do we get a pick this year for tynes?

[chagrin]

meh

[chagrin]

What I've said is you need to be a versatile offense that is willing to attack a team at their weakness. Throwing it 50 times, running it 40 whatever that team can't play. Not a "hey we're gonna run this no matter what"

I think you can build a damn good offensive unit without using a bunch of 1st rounders to do it..Dallas I believe has no players they spent a 1st rounder on, on their offense...

Just saying I'd favor D slightly to O if the guys were close especially if we're gonna have this head coach.

Wow, you've become the Taco John of football talk, lol!

What you really mean to say here is that if USC had a top OT prospect you'd really prefer we go O-line first :p

[suds79]

I was impressed by Carl Nicks at the Senior Bowl.... For whatever 1 game is worth.

So IF this happened, I'd be pretty satisfied.

[doomy3]

somebody help me here do we get a pick this year for tynes?


Yes, we get a 7th. I think we also get a 7th for Sims, and a 7th for Bennett

[Micjones]

Yes, we get a 7th. I think we also get a 7th for Sims, and a 7th for Bennett

That'll be great for this franchise.
Chiefs brass have a weird way of hitting on the late rounders.

[Ebolapox]

Wow, you've become the Taco John of football talk, lol!

What you really mean to say here is that if USC had a top OT prospect you'd really prefer we go O-line first :p

sam baker :spock:

[crazycoffey]

If Long's gone and Ellis is there, I don't have a problem with this pick....

[Phobia]

Warpaint called Tamba Hali to the Chiefs two years ago. Not sure who was in our mock last year.

Wait a minute. Warpaint had a writer who predicted the Hali pick. One writer out of however many on staff isn't exactly "Warpaint called Tamba Hali" and it certainly wasn't Nick pushing Hali on TV. It's not the same thing at all. Kudos for having one writer call the Tamba Hali pick but please don't act like it lends credibility to Nick because it just doesn't.

[Sure-Oz]

So the only knock on ellis is his height?

[xbarretx]

So the only knock on ellis is his height?

i think the only knock is that people feel LT is a must with our 4th or 5th pick. While its important to fix out O-line its also important not to reach with out picks. if Longs the BPA we should snag him.....if Ellis is BPA we should snag him etc.

the argument seems to be that if longs not there (no matter whos available) we should trade down for a LT in the first.

at least thats my take on it.

[Coogs]

Yes, we get a 7th. I think we also get a 7th for Sims, and a 7th for Bennett

One of those is next year. We have a 5th for Green, and 2 others this year for a total of 10 picks.

[crazycoffey]

i think the only knock is that people feel LT is a must with our 4th or 5th pick. While its important to fix out O-line its also important not to reach with out picks. if Longs the BPA we should snag him.....if Ellis is BPA we should snag him etc.

the argument seems to be that if longs not there (no matter whos available) we should trade down for a LT in the first.

at least thats my take on it.


then there's the whole, "if both are available, which one should we take" discussion too. which is only a slightly better discussion than the "trade down" one. I don't like that one either.....

[xbarretx]

then there's the whole, "if both are available, which one should we take" discussion too. which is only a slightly better discussion than the "trade down" one. I don't like that one either.....

indeed, as long as we all can agree that KC is both...in a position to either have a FANTASTIC DRAFT or WORST DRAFT IN HISTORY.

;) regardless ill be watching this draft with some enthusiasm :BLVD:

[crazycoffey]

indeed, as long as we all can agree that KC is both...in a position to either have a FANTASTIC DRAFT or WORST DRAFT IN HISTORY.

;) regardless ill be watching this draft with some enthusiasm :BLVD:


you're correct, it's going to be either a good or bad draft.... I'll be watching and waiting to see if I applaud or throw my laptop into my TV...

[BigChiefFan]

What concerns me is, what if Jake Long, Dorsey, and Ellis are all gone, even if we pick fourth overall? McFadden and Chris Long will be available, do we pull the trigger for Chris Long?

[RustShack]

What concerns me is, what if Jake Long, Dorsey, and Ellis are all gone, even if we pick fourth overall? McFadden and Chris Long will be available, do we pull the trigger for Chris Long?

I think in that situation I would pull the trigger on Ryan. But since Long, McFadden, and Ryan would all be on the board I think there would be a good chance in a team calling us up offering a nice deal. If it was a great deal I might take that over Ryan, it just depends on what we would get out of it.

[xbarretx]

I think in that situation I would pull the trigger on Ryan. But since Long, McFadden, and Ryan would all be on the board I think there would be a good chance in a team calling us up offering a nice deal. If it was a great deal I might take that over Ryan, it just depends on what we would get out of it.

id agree with that. but lets dont give OAK, MAI, STL, possibly ATL such an idea. we want them to draft mcFad and or long and or Ryan

and if that happens we need to hope someone good falls to rd 2

[R&GHomer]

Brings to mind the saying about broken clocks being right twice a day.

:LOL: Or "The sun even shines on a dog's ass from time to time"

[blueballs]

IF you want to beat the Pats
you're better off getting to Brady
than just trying to out score them in a shoot out

[bowener]

Im starting to get a bowener for Ellis, but I really would like to have Long on our team. He is supposed to be one of the meanest players in the draft... I love surly players, get Long pissed and LJ pissed and have them run all day long, throw in Bowe downfield blocking and I am a very happy person.

I am torn on what I want, I imagine the Chiefs are too, so they are going to blow this like a virgin after prom.

[BigChiefFan]

Don't screw this up, Chiefs, please.

[bowener]

They are going to have both to choose from, crap there pants and **** it up... I dread draft day now!!! DAMN YOU CARL!!!!!!!!!!!!11!!1!

[xbarretx]

[QUOTE=bowener]Im starting to get a bowener for Ellis, but I really would like to have Long on our team. QUOTE]

thats borderline softcore porn man :jester:

[Direckshun]

All I can say at this point, is that if we don't take advantage of this insane OT class, drafting other positions with all of our first day picks, and filling our crappy OT position with FAs...

...I will be unhappy.

[Dr. Van Halen]

All I can say at this point, is that if we don't take advantage of this insane OT class, drafting other positions with all of our first day picks, and filling our crappy OT position with FAs...

...I will be unhappy.

I think we'll all be shocked if we don't take an OT on day one.

I won't be shocked if we don't take an OT with our first pick.

Everything I've read says that the OT crop is deep enough that an excellent player will likely still be available at the top of the second.

Second Round Curse notwithstanding, of course.

[Chris Meck]

Personally, I want TWO offensive tackles in the first two rounds. If this is the OT draft, let's get us a pair of bookends now.

A QB isn't going to help us for probably 3 years at least and maybe not even that if we don't fix the line. A gamebreaking WR won't get the ball if our QB is on his back every play. We spent two first day picks on d-line last year and need to see what we've got there. We need corners, but not that early for this style of defense. We could use linebackers, but Nap and Edwards are serviceable.

offensive line is...offensive. Give me two tackles out of the gate and find me a youngish guard or center in FA.

How about Jake Long in 1, Baker in 2.

[BigChiefFan]

Personally, I want TWO offensive tackles in the first two rounds. If this is the OT draft, let's get us a pair of bookends now.

A QB isn't going to help us for probably 3 years at least and maybe not even that if we don't fix the line. A gamebreaking WR won't get the ball if our QB is on his back every play. We spent two first day picks on d-line last year and need to see what we've got there. We need corners, but not that early for this style of defense. We could use linebackers, but Nap and Edwards are serviceable.

offensive line is...offensive. Give me two tackles out of the gate and find me a youngish guard or center in FA.

How about Jake Long in 1, Baker in 2. We can get quality offensive lineman in the 2nd round and later-the same can't be said about the D-lineman.