Hall of Fame 2008 - No Derrick Thomas

[DaneMcCloud]

The six-member Class of 2008 is linebacker Andre Tippett, offensive tackle Mark Zimmerman, wide receiver Art Monk, defensive end Fred Dean and cornerback Darrell Green. Senior nominee Emmitt Thomas was the sixth and final selection.

[cdcox]

Andre Tippett, Mark Zimmerman, Art Monk, Fred Dean and Darrell Green were just announced as the Pro Football Hall of Fame Class of 2008.

Geez. Leave off Emmitt Thomas. :shake:

[Ozarks-Chiefs-Fan]

Thanks, I might have missed it in the Official HOF thread

[DaneMcCloud]

Geez. Leave off Emmitt Thomas. :shake:

Copied and pasted from NFL.com. It wasn't updated with ET until 1:53.

http://www.nfl.com/superbowl/live?icampaign=hof

[DaneMcCloud]

Thanks, I might have missed it in the Official HOF thread

Gee, thanks, n00b.

I just thought I'd post it so that people wouldn't have to surf through multiple pages to find out he didn't make it this year.

[cdcox]

Copied and pasted from NFL.com. It wasn't updated with ET until 1:53.

http://www.nfl.com/superbowl/live?icampaign=hof

Not too surprising since they couldn't figure out the draft order until 18 hours after the season was over.

[DaKCMan AP]

What a joke.

Tippett - 151 games, 100 sacks, 1 int, 19 fumble recoveries, 14 forced fumbles, 2 TDs, 0 safeties, 5-time pro-bowler, 5-time all-pro


DT - 169 games, 126.5 sacks, 1 int, 19 fumble recoveries, 45 forced fumbles, 4 TDs, 3 safeties, 9-time pro-bowler, 8-time all-pro

[FAX]

Damn. I'm beginning to wonder if DT will ever make it in.

FAX

[DaneMcCloud]

What a joke.

Tippett - 151 games, 100 sacks, 1 int, 19 fumble recoveries, 14 forced fumbles, 2 TDs, 0 safeties, 5-time pro-bowler, 5-time all-pro


DT - 169 games, 126.5 sacks, 1 int, 19 fumble recoveries, 45 forced fumbles, 4 TDs, 3 safeties, 9-time pro-bowler, 8-time all-pro

It's becoming more and more obvious that DT's lack of a Super Bowl appearance (in addition to playing for a team that's NOT on either coast) is what's holding him back from induction.

[tomahawk kid]

Damn. I'm beginning to wonder if DT will ever make it in.

FAX

That's what I'm thinking too.

The fact that Tippett and Harry Carson made it in before DT makes me want to ****ing puke.

It Derrick had played on the east coast, he'd have been in by now.

[Dunit35]

What a joke.

Tippett - 151 games, 100 sacks, 1 int, 19 fumble recoveries, 14 forced fumbles, 2 TDs, 0 safeties, 5-time pro-bowler, 5-time all-pro


DT - 169 games, 126.5 sacks, 1 int, 19 fumble recoveries, 45 forced fumbles, 4 TDs, 3 safeties, 9-time pro-bowler, 8-time all-pro


Was wondering about their stats.

When people talk about defensive game changers, I never hear Tippetts name being mentioned.

That's wierd...

[cdcox]

As soon as Carl won't be up on stage for the event, DT will get in.

[BigMeatballDave]

I'll be damned, Art Monk finally made it...

[nychief]

DT might be a senior committee type of guy. The players know how good he was, but writers are going to over analyze it.

[dtebbe]

What a joke.

Tippett - 151 games, 100 sacks, 1 int, 19 fumble recoveries, 14 forced fumbles, 2 TDs, 0 safeties, 5-time pro-bowler, 5-time all-pro


DT - 169 games, 126.5 sacks, 1 int, 19 fumble recoveries, 45 forced fumbles, 4 TDs, 3 safeties, 9-time pro-bowler, 8-time all-pro

:Lin:

[Eleazar]

DT >>>>>>>>>> Tippett

[Deberg_1990]

DT will get in eventually. Its just that the voters feel he wasnt a "top tier" guy (which is a joke).

Like someone mentioned earlier, the voters tend to argue and over-analyze the guys who they feel are just a notch below like Art Monk.


Whats sad is, DT will probably end up like Monk did.

Hes got several things working against him.

1. No Super Bowls
2. Played in a small market
3. He not alive to campaign for himself
4. Hes a defensive player. There is sort of an offensive bias in the HoF for whatever reason.

Tippett probably went in before DT because hes been on the ballot longer??

[FAX]

The Tippett deal is an outrage. People say that the fact the Chiefs never made it to the Super Bowl makes it difficult for DT. Then again, everyone talks about Gonzo being a shoe-in for the hall. Something is amiss here.

FAX

[Hammock Parties]

This is a ****ing outrage.

[Smell My Dump]

DT might be a senior committee type of guy. The players know how good he was, but writers are going to over analyze it.

Thomas will get in before it gets to that point. Fred Dean and Andre Tippett getting in today helps his cause. Neither one even had the longevity of DT in terms of greatness. Some of the old farts on the committee wanted to see Dean and Tippett in first before jumping on board for DT. The politics of glory, sigh!

[Chiefaholic]

For a guy that so many people think is overrated. I'de love to have a clone of DT on the field today. The guy had amazing skills that you just knew would make the big play every game.

[Ozarks-Chiefs-Fan]

Gee, thanks, n00b.

I just thought I'd post it so that people wouldn't have to surf through multiple pages to find out he didn't make it this year.

good thinking there sport :thumb:

[Mecca]

If you never made the bowl you better have unbelievable stats or you'll be waiting, that's how the NFL HOF works.

Great players on bad teams will sit behind really good players that were on great teams. It's why the Steelers have so many guys...

We're gonna watch a ton of Patriots go in, in about a decade.

Art Monk finally got in, when he retired he was top 5 in nearly every WR category, had won 3 Bowls and he still struggled to get in.

[Chief Chief]

Let's face it: Bob Gretz doesn't know how to spin the data to the committee members so they'll vote for DT. Gretz has got to do alot more than just reel off his stats.

[Hammock Parties]

I hope Bob brings my video with him next year.

[BigMeatballDave]

If you never made the bowl you better have unbelievable stats or you'll be waiting, that's how the NFL HOF works.

Great players on bad teams will sit behind really good players that were on great teams. It's why the Steelers have so many guys...

We're gonna watch a ton of Patriots go in, in about a decade.

Art Monk finally got in, when he retired he was top 5 in nearly every WR category, had won 3 Bowls and he still struggled to get in.You are correct. I agree. Its also stupid. HOF is about personal achievement, not team. The voters are retarded.

[shaneo69]

Good job again, Mr. Gretz.

[shaneo69]

Can't wait to read those Peter King and Dr. Z quotes from this year's decisions...

[Bowser]

Utter horseshit.

[blueballs]

Thomas must have nailed some voters daughter(s)

[kcfanXIII]

As soon as Carl won't be up on stage for the event, DT will get in.

DT was CeePee 's first draft pick, and by far his best. maybe TG, but for the sake of this argument, it was DT. if there's anything carl deserves, other than his walking papers, a greedy ex-wife, a minor case of the black plague, a swift kick in the ass, a swift kick in the balls, its being on stage for thomas' induction.

[JBucc]

I asked this before in one of the earlier threads, but didn't get an answer. Who becomes eligible the next few years? Does it get any easier?

[Deberg_1990]

I just noticed Chris Carter didnt make it in his first year of eligibility.

Hes probably a guy who will slip like Monk did. The perception is, he benefitted from playing in a "pass happy" era.

[penchief]

What a joke.

Tippett - 151 games, 100 sacks, 1 int, 19 fumble recoveries, 14 forced fumbles, 2 TDs, 0 safeties, 5-time pro-bowler, 5-time all-pro


DT - 169 games, 126.5 sacks, 1 int, 19 fumble recoveries, 45 forced fumbles, 4 TDs, 3 safeties, 9-time pro-bowler, 8-time all-pro

45 forced fumbles. That is just crazy. I can only believe that there is a bottleneck and voters know that Thomas is going to make it but they want to relieve that bottleneck.

Is there an art to how long someone has to wait? Plus, Thomas's stats would clearly have been impossible to overlook had he played the two or three more years that he would have played, even if as a heavier pass-rushing end type.

[kcfanXIII]

This is a ****ing outrage.

truest words ever spoken by goatse. i am so pissed about this. WHO THE F U C K is andre tippet? didn't the pats suck until about 94? comparing those stats, its laughable, and unfortunately it moves the HOF another notch closer to WPI in the credibility column. DT at least tied him on everything!!! and if he was a game changer like DT was, i would remember him. BULLSHIT!!!

:bang: HOF

[DaneMcCloud]

I just noticed Chris Carter didnt make it in his first year of eligibility.

Hes probably a guy who will slip like Monk did. The perception is, he benefitted from playing in a "pass happy" era.

I think being cut mid-season from Philadelphia by Buddy Ryan due to his massive cocaine problem played a major part in him being passed over his first year.

[unothadeal]

Does eligibility ever run out?

[DaneMcCloud]

truest words ever spoken by goatse. i am so pissed about this. WHO THE F U C K is andre tippet? didn't the pats suck until about 94? comparing those stats, its laughable, and unfortunately it moves the HOF another notch closer to WPI in the credibility column. DT at least tied him on everything!!! and if he was a game changer like DT was, i would remember him. BULLSHIT!!!

:bang: HOF

Andre Tippet made the 80's All Decade team.

I'm disappointed that Derrick Thomas didn't get in either, but let's not disparage other players because of it.

[Deberg_1990]

truest words ever spoken by goatse. i am so pissed about this. WHO THE F U C K is andre tippet? didn't the pats suck until about 94? comparing those stats, its laughable, and unfortunately it moves the HOF another notch closer to WPI in the credibility column. DT at least tied him on everything!!! and if he was a game changer like DT was, i would remember him. BULLSHIT!!!

:bang: HOF


Yep, that settles it, just because you never heard of Andre Tippett, that means he sucked.

[kcfanXIII]

Andre Tippet made the 80's All Decade team.

I'm disappointed that Derrick Thomas didn't get in either, but let's not disparage other players because of it.

so he was the best player on a shitty defense? sorry, don't remember much football from the 80's. am i right that the pats sucked?

DT was the best player on some INCREDIBLE defenses. don't mean to demean andre tippet, but based on the stats, its crazy he should be in their before 58.

[kcfanXIII]

Yep, that settles it, just because you never heard of Andre Tippett, that means he sucked.

not what i meant, not trying to insult mr. tippet, i'm sure he was great. i just feel like i've watched enough football, to have a pretty strong grasp on who was good and who wasn't. i surely thought i'd know of a HOF player. evidently, this has been proven wrong.

edit: turns out the pats had a couple of super bowl losses in the 80's.

[cdcox]

I like to use Google Toolbar as a quick indicator of how important or famous something or someone is.

If you type in "Andre T" none of the suggestions have anything to do with Andre Tippett. You have to type in "Andre Ti" to get Andre Tippett to pop up. I think even Vanna could get it from there.

If you type in "Derrick" (no initial needed) Derrick Thomas comes up as the second suggestion.

[DaneMcCloud]

so he was the best player on a shitty defense? sorry, don't remember much football from the 80's. am i right that the pats sucked?

DT was the best player on some INCREDIBLE defenses. don't mean to demean andre tippet, but based on the stats, its crazy he should be in their before 58.

What makes you think the Patriots "sucked" in the 80's?

1980: 10-6
1981: 2-14
1982: 5-4
1983: 8-8
1984: 9-7
1985: 11-5 (Super Bowl)
1986: 11-5
1987: 8-7
1988: 9-7
1989: 5-11

Eight of ten seasons were winning seasons, plus they had a Super Bowl appearance.

If Deron Cherry is ever up for induction, are you going to say he isn't deserving because the Chiefs DID suck during the 80's?

You were born in 1980? Unless you lived in New England and watched the Pats every day of your life, you would have absolutely NO IDEA what kind of player Andre Tippet was during the 80's. And you'd have to be some sort of football genius at that age to determine HOF worth.

Additionally, "Stats" don't necessarily provide the true picture of an NFL player.

[kcfanXIII]

What makes you think the Patriots "sucked" in the 80's?

1980: 10-6
1981: 2-14
1982: 5-4
1983: 8-8
1984: 9-7
1985: 11-5 (Super Bowl)
1986: 11-5
1987: 8-7
1988: 9-7
1989: 5-11

Eight of ten seasons were winning seasons, plus they had a Super Bowl appearance.

If Deron Cherry is ever up for induction, are you going to say he isn't deserving because the Chiefs DID suck during the 80's?

ya, already admitted i was wrong about that. :shrug:

[penchief]

If Deron Cherry is ever up for induction, are you going to say he isn't deserving because the Chiefs DID suck during the 80's?

Cherry and Everson Walls are the same to me. If either one makes it, so should the other.

However, since their is a new conscientiousness when it comes to defensive players, I believe that championships will weigh more heavily in the minds of voters when evaluating defensive players from the past. That would not bode well for players like Cherry and may already be affecting Thomas's wait.

[KcMizzou]

Petro was talking about his interview with LT at last year's Super Bowl recently...

I guess he asked LT if DT deserved to be in the HOF, and LT said absolutely... Petro had the impression that LT thought he was in already.

[DaneMcCloud]

Cherry and Everson Walls are the same to me. If either one makes it, so should the other.

However, since their is a new conscientiousness when it comes to defensive players, I believe that championships will weigh more heavily in the minds of voters when evaluating defensive players from the past. That would not bode well for players like Cherry and may already be affecting Thomas's wait.

Derrick Thomas is affected not only by his lack of Super Bowl credential but also the fact that he played in the Midwest in a small media market. Not many games were televised to either coast (where the majority of HOF writers reside).

But the biggest blow to DT's induction came four years ago, when Blob Gretz began his presentation by pointing out all of his weaknesses instead of focusing on his strengths.

Erasing those doubts about his weakness from the voter's minds will be the most difficult task and it may be another generation before he's inducted.

[JohnnyV13]

What's really disgusting is FRED DEAN ahead of Derrick Thomas.

Fred Dean was a part time player for the last 6 years of his career or so, and always was a liability against the run as a DE (he was only 230).

Fred Dean and Andre Tippett, DO NOT belong in the HOF ahead of DT.

Dean, 4 pro bowls, 4 all pro,
Tippett, 5 pro bowls, 5 all pro,

DT: 9 pro bowls and 8 all pro.

[Chiefnj2]

If he didn't make it this year I doubt he gets in until he's part of the senior selection.

[blueballs]

Herm should give the next DT intro
the media like him
Gretz just eats their food

[blueballs]

Chiefs have a history of long waits to enter the hall
or so I've heard on the radio

[KCinNY]

Tippett and Dean over DT???

Freaking joke.

[Mecca]

If you go look at guys who are eligible and will become eligible..Thomas is going to wait forever now. This was the year for him to make it..now he will have to deal with..

Cris Carter
Andre Reed
Bruce Smith
Emmitt Smith
Jerome Bettis
Deion Sanders
Rod Woodson
Curtis Martin
Marshall Faulk

This may be awhile...

[JohnnyV13]

Of course, I don't think Tippett and Dean belong ahead of Thomas, but I suppose their election is GOOD for Derrick's chances.

Dean was close to getting past his eligibility years. Tippett is a player much like thomas, who has been waiting longer.

Now you can't say that pass rushers like Thomaas have been waiting longer than him.

[Hammock Parties]

Hall of Famer Gary Zimmerman is beaten for a sack by some no-name player.

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/997/derrickthomasshot4uv6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Rain Man]

Cherry and Everson Walls are the same to me. If either one makes it, so should the other.

However, since their is a new conscientiousness when it comes to defensive players, I believe that championships will weigh more heavily in the minds of voters when evaluating defensive players from the past. That would not bode well for players like Cherry and may already be affecting Thomas's wait.

Both are truly deserving, in my opinion. Walls was one of the best cornerbacks ever, no doubt about it. He was a textbook example of a perfect cover corner. And Cherry was a textbook example of a perfect ball-hawking safety. Cherry probably loses some points for not being as hard a hitter as Ronnie Lott, but for half a decade or more, those were the two starting safeties in the pro bowl.

Everson Walls really should be a no-brainer for the voters.

[JohnnyV13]

Both are truly deserving, in my opinion. Walls was one of the best cornerbacks ever, no doubt about it. He was a textbook example of a perfect cover corner. And Cherry was a textbook example of a perfect ball-hawking safety. Cherry probably loses some points for not being as hard a hitter as Ronnie Lott, but for half a decade or more, those were the two starting safeties in the pro bowl.

Everson Walls really should be a no-brainer for the voters.


I disagree on Walls. Walls had lots of INTs because he was smart and anticipated routes very well. Walls also wasn't very fast and was a guy you could burn pretty regularly. (But, he also got in his plays).

[Mr. Flopnuts]

What a joke.

Tippett - 151 games, 100 sacks, 1 int, 19 fumble recoveries, 14 forced fumbles, 2 TDs, 0 safeties, 5-time pro-bowler, 5-time all-pro


DT - 169 games, 126.5 sacks, 1 int, 19 fumble recoveries, 45 forced fumbles, 4 TDs, 3 safeties, 9-time pro-bowler, 8-time all-pro



When I saw Tippett got in and DT didn't I punched my wife in the face. I apologized and she told me she understood. She's a good girl.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Seriously though, what the ****? How does that work. DT holds RECORDS. What's Tippett got? A Super Bowl loss? Complete and utter bullshit. I'm as disgusted as I've EVER been with the game of football.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

not what i meant, not trying to insult mr. tippet, i'm sure he was great. i just feel like i've watched enough football, to have a pretty strong grasp on who was good and who wasn't. i surely thought i'd know of a HOF player. evidently, this has been proven wrong.

edit: turns out the pats had a couple of super bowl losses in the 80's.


LMAO You must have watched a whole helluva lot of football to see the Patriots in 2 Super Bowls in the 1980's. Oops.

[007]

The Tippett deal is an outrage. People say that the fact the Chiefs never made it to the Super Bowl makes it difficult for DT. Then again, everyone talks about Gonzo being a shoe-in for the hall. Something is amiss here.

FAX
Exactly Mr. Fax. That is a very friggin telling statement. :mad:

[Ultra Peanut]

I love Big Daddy Drew.

http://kissmesuzy.blogspot.com/2008/02/you-gotta-be-f-king-kidding-me.html

NO ****ING CRIS CARTER IN THE HALL, YOU ****ING ASSHOLES?!!! What, since Art Monk got in you filled up your COMPLETELY IMAGINARY, ARBITRARY AND ****ING IDIOTIC RECEIVER QUOTA?! No room for the greatest sideline receiver in NFL history?

I hope you get ****ing angina.

Hey, Hall of Fame voters, I'd like to induct you into my asshole. Be sure to wear a yellow blazer and a protective helmet, you ****ing ****s. I watched every game this asshole played for 11 goddamn years AND I DON'T EVEN LIKE HIM. What, does everyone have to wait to get their just due now? Five years not enough? Is this the ****ing Oscars now?

AND ANDRE TIPPETT GETS IN OVER DERRICK THOMAS?!

Kiss my ****ing dick.

[ Big Daddy Drew ] 6:45 PM

tags: Homerism, writing angry is fun

[Mama Hip Rockets]

What a joke.

Tippett - 151 games, 100 sacks, 1 int, 19 fumble recoveries, 14 forced fumbles, 2 TDs, 0 safeties, 5-time pro-bowler, 5-time all-pro


DT - 169 games, 126.5 sacks, 1 int, 19 fumble recoveries, 45 forced fumbles, 4 TDs, 3 safeties, 9-time pro-bowler, 8-time all-pro

wow. that is ridiculous.