Giants, Steelers should give Chiefs fans hope

[Hammock Parties]

http://kan.scout.com/2/726011.html

OK, so it happened. The tough team knocked off the explosive team. Herm Edwards probably wasn’t watching, but you kind of wish he was. Likely, he would have enjoyed watching the New York Giants ruin perfection in beating the New England Patriots.

As I watched New York’s savage pass rush violently dismantle New England’s offense Sunday evening, the thought occurred that perhaps the Chiefs could eventually do the same – build a defense that sends elite passing offenses home with their imperfect tails tucked between their legs. The Giants won Super Bowl XLII largely because of Osi Umenyiora, Michael Strahan, Justin Tuck, Kawika Mitchell and Jay Alford.

Umenyiora made New England’s Matt Light, an All-Pro lineman and excellent pass protector, look like Jordan Black, constantly beating the left tackle around the edge and hounding Tom Brady all evening. Strahan, Tuck, Mitchell and Alford combined for five sacks and hit Brady approximately 15 times. The best quarterback in the league was roughed up and off-target throughout the game.

With Jared Allen, Tamba Hali, Alfonso Boone and Derrick Johnson, the Chiefs already have four players who can contribute to such a scheme. If they add USC defensive tackle Sedrick Ellis or Virginia defensive end Chris Long in April’s draft, defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham will have all the chess pieces he needs to checkmate an attack such as New England’s.

Drafting a third end with starter potential wouldn’t be a waste of a first-round pick, either, especially considering Hali’s injury problems. The Giants played Strahan, Umenyiora and Tuck on passing downs together often against the Patriots.

Assembling such a talent-laden pack of defenders wouldn’t be the final piece of KC’s Super Bowl puzzle, however. It’s worth noting that for all their defensive success Sunday night, the Giants’ defense got tired and let the Patriots take a fourth-quarter lead. New York’s offense had to pick up the slack and win the game with a clutch drive.

And the Giants’ first touchdown came with almost zero contributions from the ground game. The message is clear – you need an effective passing game to win the big one in this league. The Chiefs will have to develop one to complement their defense. The running game should be a secondary concern.

But forget defensive talent, offensive schemes and philosophy. The Giants can give the Chiefs and their fans hope for other reasons. New York did not win the NFC East division this season. They entered the playoffs as a wildcard at 10-6 and had to win three games on the road to qualify for the championship. They did just that, and still had enough left in the tank to claim the Lombardi.

That’s been the exception to the rule according to NFL history. The Patriots built a dynasty because they consistently won the AFC East division and gained a high seed in the playoffs. The same rings true for most Super Bowl champions.

But after the Giants took another path, along with the 2005 Pittsburgh Steelers, it means almost any team is capable of replicating the journey with the right mix of talent and coaching. Two of the last three Super Bowl champions didn’t win their division, and all three played in the wild-card round. It’s no fluke.

This is particularly important when you consider the situation in Kansas City. At the beginning of the season, when the Chiefs started 0-2 for the second consecutive year, I cited slow starts as one of Herm Edwards’ biggest weaknesses. Because of that fact, it followed that the Chiefs might never win a division championship under Edwards, which would make winning it all nearly impossible.

The Giants have shown us otherwise. Whether the Chiefs can follow suit is a huge question mark, but at least we now know it can be done.

We also know that even if your quarterback turns the ball over 27 times in the regular season, he’s capable of getting the monkey off his back in the postseason. That’s exactly what Eli Manning (now a Super Bowl MVP) did over the last month, which means Chiefs fans should have all the patience in the world with Brodie Croyle.

[blueballs]

Giants are now the blue print
Herm Edwards is half way there

[Mecca]

I totally disagree with this, those teams are the worst things that can happen to the Chiefs.

Then they really think "just getting in" is all you need, which in most years isn't the case.

[Zeke Ziggle]

The idea that we can win from anywhere once we are in shouldn't be the message but what a top D-Line can do for a team. There a very few outstanding players in their secondary except for maybe Aaron Ross.

[JohnnyV13]

If anything,

this might make the Chiefs take Sedrick Ellis.

However, if you look at Eli Manning's 1st year starter stats and compare them to Brodie, Croyle is clearly better even with a worse o line and worse running game. (Giants were 11th in rushing and 5th in yards per attempt in 2004).

That's not to say that Croyle will be better than Eli, it DOES say that its too early to give up on Croyle.

[keg in kc]

"Hope" is one emotion that no sane Chiefs fan should ever be foolish enough to embrace.

[tk13]

The biggest things you learn from watching this game, are things everybody already knows anyway...

1) Despite all the talk to the contrary, defense still wins championships. It sounds like the oldest, lamest cliche in the book, but with all the offensive records in the world in this game, the most dominant defense dictated the game and won a title.

2.) No QB, even the immortal Tom Brady, can succeed with cruddy line play. You're never gonna be able to evaluate Brodie Croyle until our line play gets consistently better.

[Ultra Peanut]

**** that. The Chiefs suck. The Chiefs will always suck.

If I'm dumb enough to believe otherwise in August, well, I'll come to my senses soon enough.

[The Bad Guy]

What you fail to realize F.A. Wendler, is that the Giants had superior coaching on defense. Steve Spags is the best d coordinator in the NFL. He patched together a secondary, blitzed at the perfect times and just called a brilliant game.

Does WPI always write about how other teams should give fans hope? Is that your central theme for Chiefs ass-kissing this year?

There isn't one thing similar from the Steelers and Giants to the Chiefs. Not one.

[King_Chief_Fan]

That has to be the most idiotic, misinformed, poorly written piece of crap I have read since.........well since the last time you wrote something.

Chiefs may have the blueprint in front of them, but the buidling materials suck at this point, and from what I have seen so do the builders.
Herm, Curl, Cunningham.....the new 3 stooges.

[the Talking Can]

the new Gretz

[Eleazar]

Last night when the server was going crazy, I was trying to post a thread saying that I would bet anything this week we read Carl's flunkies over at kcchiefs.com writing about how all of this proves that Carl is a genius and the Chiefs have the perfect plan for the super bowl.

I was only half right, it does 'prove' Carl is a genious, but I had the wrong flunkie.

[the Talking Can]

The answer is clear : pee is smarter than findthehootie


its great that you infect every single thread with your obsession...really, its awesome reading it on every football thread...

seriously, keep it up...we want more...lot's more

[Fish]

its great that you infect every single thread with your obsession...really, its awesome reading it on every football thread...

seriously, keep it up...we want more...lot's more

LMAO

[The Bad Guy]

Here is the New York Giants depth chart:
http://www.giants.com/team/depth_chart.asp
starters:
Michael Strahan 1993 rnd 2 pick 40
Barry Cofield 2006 rnd 4 pick 124
Fred Robbins 2000 rnd 2 pick 55
Osi Umenyiora 2003 rnd 2 pick 56

backups:
Dave Tollefson 2006 rnd 7 pick 253
Russell Davis 1999 rnd 2 pick 49
Jay Alford 2007 rnd 3 pick 81
Justin Tuck 2005 rnd 3 pick 74

Not a single defensive lineman picked in the 1st rnd!!

Giants regular season defense:
total 7th
pass 11th
rush 8th
scoring 17th

Chiefs regular season defense:
total 13th
pass 5th
rush 28th
scoring 14th


The Giants have a great defense, but not a single one of their players was picked in the 1st rnd. The chiefs currently have a 1st rnd player in tambal hali, 4th rnd Jared Allen, 2nd rnd Turk Mcbride, 3rd rnd Tank Tyler, 6th round Jimmy wilkerson, 3rd rnd Ron edwards, and undrafted Alfonso Boone. We basically have a similar mix of players.

The Giants won the game by having a BALANCED team. When it came down to it with 3minutes left in the 4th quarter and the Giants with the lead, the Giants defense was unable to stop New England who went ahea for the score to be up 14-10.

It took the Giants Offense to move down the field and score the go ahead TD with 30 seconds left in the game.

The chiefs scoring offense is 31st in the league averaging 14.1 points per game. On average, the chiefs offense would not have been able to score 17 points to win the game, and would not have scored points in similar situations.

So I disagree that the chiefs need to take Ellis or Chris Long...we aldready have a mix of drafted players on our team. We need to develop the existing players and we need to upgrade our offensive line so that our team is more balanced.

You said that the pass rush made Matt Lepsis look bad. Well our Oline has looked bad all year. denver with their horrible oline was able to bring in a couple street free agents before the game, and still put pressur on our offense, get sacks, and win the game.

The answer is clear : Team Balance. improve the offense and the Oline.

How many first rounders were on the Giants O-line?

The answer is zero.

[beach tribe]

How many first rounders were on the Giants O-line?

The answer is zero.
*gasp*!!

[Sure-Oz]

Spags probably will get an interview with Washington to be their new HC

[EyePod]

Isn't Chris Long a 3-4 D end? Why would we want one. Sedrick Ellis or Jake Long are the only way we should go. If we get either of those, I don't thing anyone will have room for complaining until they are busts during the season.

[Simply Red]

Osi Umenyiora 2003 rnd 2 pick 56

This player is awesome. What pursuit. Plus he seems to be a great guy as well.

[Eleazar]

We should definitely take hope from this. Our defensive line compares favorably to the Giants' line, right? I mean, they have all these bigtime players there. We've got one bigtime player, who Carl's trying desperately to run out of town.

They have an offensive line that was simply great last night. We've got one that's been declining for 3 years or more. They draft linemen, we sign castoffs. Or trade draft picks for them.

They brought in a free agent WR who was huge for them down the stretch. Until this year we drafted any number of undersized project guys in the middle or later rounds.

They have a QB they trust at the controls. We thought Damon Huard was the answer. Coughlin also had the guts to pull Warner when he was sucking and go with the kid. We had to be drug into it kicking and screaming.

They have a great d-coordinator. We have stuck by Gunther for how many years now?

We signed our, what, 28 year old power back to a huge contract for 5 more years. They just picked a guy from a small college out of the 4th round and plugged him in.

The similarities never end...

[Hammock Parties]

Steve Spags is the best d coordinator in the NFL..

The Chiefs allowed fewer points than the Giants this year.

[Spott]

This game didn't give me hope at all. It just made me realize how far away the Chiefs are from ever competing for a championship. Both of those teams are better at just about every position than KC.

[FloridaMan88]

Here is where your "hope" ends in terms of comparing the Chiefs to the Steelers and Giants...

The Giants starting QB= Eli Manning, 1st overall pick in the draft
The Steelers starting QB= Ben Roethlisberger, 11th overall pick in the draft

The Chiefs starting QB= Brodie Croyle= 3rd round pick, fringe NFL player.

If you are trying to offer the Giants and Steelers recent Super Bowl runs as hope for the Chiefs then you better put yourself on the "Chiefs should draft a QB with the 4th/5th overall pick in the draft this April" Bandwagon

[Eleazar]

The Chiefs allowed fewer points than the Giants this year.

We allowed less in the playoffs too.

[Ultra Peanut]

Osi got bumped out of the first due to an injury, didn't he?

[Micjones]

Here is the New York Giants depth chart:
http://www.giants.com/team/depth_chart.asp
starters:
Michael Strahan 1993 rnd 2 pick 40
Barry Cofield 2006 rnd 4 pick 124
Fred Robbins 2000 rnd 2 pick 55
Osi Umenyiora 2003 rnd 2 pick 56

backups:
Dave Tollefson 2006 rnd 7 pick 253
Russell Davis 1999 rnd 2 pick 49
Jay Alford 2007 rnd 3 pick 81
Justin Tuck 2005 rnd 3 pick 74

Not a single defensive lineman picked in the 1st rnd!!

Giants regular season defense:
total 7th
pass 11th
rush 8th
scoring 17th

Chiefs regular season defense:
total 13th
pass 5th
rush 28th
scoring 14th


The Giants have a great defense, but not a single one of their players was picked in the 1st rnd. The chiefs currently have a 1st rnd player in tambal hali, 4th rnd Jared Allen, 2nd rnd Turk Mcbride, 3rd rnd Tank Tyler, 6th round Jimmy wilkerson, 3rd rnd Ron edwards, and undrafted Alfonso Boone. We basically have a similar mix of players.

The Giants won the game by having a BALANCED team. When it came down to it with 3minutes left in the 4th quarter and the Giants with the lead, the Giants defense was unable to stop New England who went ahea for the score to be up 14-10.

It took the Giants Offense to move down the field and score the go ahead TD with 30 seconds left in the game.

The chiefs scoring offense is 31st in the league averaging 14.1 points per game. On average, the chiefs offense would not have been able to score 17 points to win the game, and would not have scored points in similar situations.

So I disagree that the chiefs need to take Ellis or Chris Long...we aldready have a mix of drafted players on our team. We need to develop the existing players and we need to upgrade our offensive line so that our team is more balanced.

You said that the pass rush made Matt Lepsis look bad. Well our Oline has looked bad all year. denver with their horrible oline was able to bring in a couple street free agents before the game, and still put pressur on our offense, get sacks, and win the game.

The answer is clear : Team Balance. improve the offense and the Oline.

EXACTLY.

[The Bad Guy]

The Chiefs allowed fewer points than the Giants this year.

Did the Chiefs and the Giants play exactly the same schedule?

If not, then it doesn't mean jack shit.

Did you watch his schemes in the playoffs? Did you see what that guy orchestrated against the 2 best offenses in the NFL?

I know you suck the ****ing taint of all things Chiefs related, but your NFL knowledge is lacking more than your sex life.

[FAX]

Okay. I'm down like duck fuzz with the whole a-disruptive-defensive-pass-rush-is-a-good thing, peeps.

What I don't know (due to the marvels of the Super Bowl camera work) is what their defensive backfield was doing all that time. I have to assume that Brady was having some difficulty finding wide open guys. It looked as though the Giants didn't know what to do with Welker - but, other than that little problem, how did their secondary look to you guys?

FAX

[OnTheWarpath15]

EXACTLY.

How many first rounders were on the Giants O-line?

The answer is zero.

EXACTLY.

[Hammock Parties]

Congratulations on 10,000 posts, Frank! I know I have enjoyed most of them!!!

[FAX]

We should definitely take hope from this. Our defensive line compares favorably to the Giants' line, right? I mean, they have all these bigtime players there. We've got one bigtime player, who Carl's trying desperately to run out of town.

They have an offensive line that was simply great last night. We've got one that's been declining for 3 years or more. They draft linemen, we sign castoffs. Or trade draft picks for them.

They brought in a free agent WR who was huge for them down the stretch. Until this year we drafted any number of undersized project guys in the middle or later rounds.

They have a QB they trust at the controls. We thought Damon Huard was the answer. Coughlin also had the guts to pull Warner when he was sucking and go with the kid. We had to be drug into it kicking and screaming.

They have a great d-coordinator. We have stuck by Gunther for how many years now?

We signed our, what, 28 year old power back to a huge contract for 5 more years. They just picked a guy from a small college out of the 4th round and plugged him in.

The similarities never end...

EXACTLY.

FAX

[OnTheWarpath15]

Okay. I'm down like duck fuzz with the whole a-disruptive-defensive-pass-rush-is-a-good thing, peeps.

What I don't know (due to the marvels of the Super Bowl camera work) is what their defensive backfield was doing all that time. I have to assume that Brady was having some difficulty finding wide open guys. It looked as though the Giants didn't know what to do with Welker - but, other than that little problem, how did their secondary look to you guys?

FAX

Two things I noticed, Mr. FAX.

First, the DB's didn't have to be great last night, because Brady was on his ass within 3 seconds. Unlike our DB's who are often forced into trying to cover for 5-7 seconds due to our lack of pass rush. Since our DT's suck, all the QB has to do is step up in the pocket and avoid the outside rush. Brady didn't have this option last night. A great pass rush is a DB's best friend.

Second, I think McDaniels called a TERRIBLE game.

The way NE had been successful against teams with a good pass rush in the past is to limit Brady's drops and work the quick passing game to loosen things up. Slants and crossing routes. Brady was dropping 5-7 steps like he was waiting for the long ball.

Also, and I could be wrong because I was hosting a party and I may have missed it, but did NE run a single screen pass? If they did, they didn't do it very often.

[Hammock Parties]

You guys have to realize Carl would send Tim Krumrie around to break my legs if I didn't write this. :(

[FAX]

Two things I noticed, Mr. FAX.

First, the DB's didn't have to be great last night, because Brady was on his ass within 3 seconds. Unlike our DB's who are often forced into trying to cover for 5-7 seconds due to our lack of pass rush. Since our DT's suck, all the QB has to do is step up in the pocket and avoid the outside rush. Brady didn't have this option last night. A great pass rush is a DB's best friend.

Second, I think McDaniels called a TERRIBLE game.

The way NE had been successful against teams with a good pass rush in the past is to limit Brady's drops and work the quick passing game to loosen things up. Slants and crossing routes. Brady was dropping 5-7 steps like he was waiting for the long ball.

Also, and I could be wrong because I was hosting a party and I may have missed it, but did NE run a single screen pass? If they did, they didn't do it very often.

Good points all, Mr. OnTheWarpath58. My ability to concentrate on the game was somewhat limited, as well. Therefore, much of this is ass-talk.

I don't recall seeing a single screen pass by either team the entire game. Also (and I haven't seen the stats), the Pats didn't seem very interested in running the ball, either. They used some play action, but it was essentially meaningless. The long drops were probably in place in an effort to try and get Moss the football deep - Welker was likely one of the progression receivers on most of those plays. Clearly, short drops and quick passes to the back, slants, short curls, screens, etc. might have helped curtail the onslaught by the Giants' D.

Honestly, I don't think the Pats believed that the G-men could keep up that kind of pass rush all night and all they had to do was put up 17 or so to win the game. Maybe you're right. Maybe we saw a very poorly called game under the circumstances because the Giants' defense never quit.

FAX

[Chiefmanwillcatch]

Giants Dline is built with 2nd rounders.

[FAX]

Who was that big, giant rookie middle guy? I think he made a play on Brady near the end. Came right up the center on a bull rush and flattened him big-time-wise.

I like that guy.

FAX

[unothadeal]

The Chiefs allowed fewer points than the Giants this year.
The Giants won the Superbowl.

[Hammock Parties]

Who was that big, giant rookie middle guy? I think he made a play on Brady near the end. Came right up the center on a bull rush and flattened him big-time-wise.

I like that guy.

FAX

Jay Alford. I don't know anything about the NFL, but somehow he slipped into my article.

[The Bad Guy]

Jay Alford. I don't know anything about the NFL, but somehow he slipped into my article.

You don't. Anyone could sit in their basement and watch ESPNews all night to see the highlights 20x to remember his name.

Comparing anything on the Chiefs with anything on the Giants is about the biggest reach I've ever read.

I'm sorry that you live in a fantasy land.

[The Bad Guy]

yup, I infect every thread with something called REALITY. I'm glad you like it because its time you face it, because I'll keep dishing it out. You've just been served.



Funny, I didn't notice your realistic posts about how the Giants OLINE is comprised of ZERO first round picks.

[The Bad Guy]

And why are we continuing to give Gunther "pieces"? Why can't he work with the players he's talked up forever?
He's gotten basically his pick of the litter every freaking year and he never produces a defense like he talks about all off-season.

[Hammock Parties]

Flawed, knee-jerk articles like this just flame the rhetoric of the masses on chiefsplanet, but its not a step toward respectible journalism.

It's not a knee-jerk. It's basically the second part to what I wrote BEFORE the game. I essentially claimed that the Giants were similar in many respects to what the Chiefs would be like to be as a "tough" football team. The insinuation was that there was no way they could beat an explosive team like New England.

When they did, I had to eat my crow, and admit that the Chiefs might be able to do it Herm's way and win a Super Bowl like the Giants (with the caveat that they would still have to develop a passing game that was capable of clutch play, as we saw from Eli despite the fact he sucked this year).

By the way, I wasn't making any excuses. I was making a joke. The Chiefs have never, and never will, tell me what to write. Everything I've ever written has been of my own volition. I tend to be more negative during the season, and more positive during the offseason, however.

[Hammock Parties]

And why are we continuing to give Gunther "pieces"? Why can't he work with the players he's talked up forever?
He's gotten basically his pick of the litter every freaking year and he never produces a defense like he talks about all off-season.

I agree with that, and wrote about that very issue this year, the fact he hasn't gotten it done (Carl broke my fingers over that one), but we're going to be stuck with him anyway.

[OnTheWarpath15]

yup, I infect every thread with something called REALITY. I'm glad you like it because its time you face it, and I plan on continuing to dishing it out. You've just been served.
You can keep making excuses for your articles, or you can eventually decide to raise it to a level of respectable journalism. I hope you choose the latter.

I also hope you have not become Mecca's bitch like many others on this board.

If New England had won, than those people would have claimed that the first round picks on their defensive line were the reason and would be clamoring for the chiefs to draft defensive players with their 1st round pick. Now that the Giants won, people are using their defense as an excuse to draft Sedrick Ellis, Chris Long, or Glen Dorsey. That is flawed logic, and the stats dont back that up.

This article even says that drafting a D player will give Gunther the chess pieces to be successful. Gun sucks. He might have the chess pieces but he cant play the game. Its beyond him, and its beyond Solari.

Flawed, knee-jerk articles like this just flame the rhetoric of the masses on chiefsplanet, but its not a step toward respectible journalism.

No, most of those people are weighing the VALUE of each of those picks, as well as the DEPTH of those positions in the draft. The "flawed logic" is reaching based on need. The same people that were in the VALUE/DEPTH camp are the same today as they were 2 weeks ago.

It only makes sense that if you have two players rated equally, that you would take the guy who plays the position with the shallowest depth pool.

In this case, it would be Ellis.

There will likely be in the neighborhood of 10 offensive linemen on teams draft boards through Round 2. 8 or so being OT's.

There will be 3 defensive tackles.

I'm all for drafting Jake Long if Sedrick Ellis, Chris Long and Glenn Dorsey are off the board. Otherwise, they are all BPA over Jake Long, IMO.

Funny, I didn't notice your realistic posts about how the Giants OLINE is comprised of ZERO first round picks.

Whoops.

[teedubya]

This player is awesome. What pursuit. Plus he seems to be a great guy as well.

Im so glad that we drafted Kawika Mitchell instead of Umenyiora.

[OnTheWarpath15]

You've broken your own record for posting the same crap, while managing to completely ignore the posts in which you are thoroughly pwned.

Congratulations.

And FWIW, it could be argued that Damon Huard skewed the sack numbers.

He was sacked 36 times, while Croyle was only sacked 17 times, while playing behind an OL that got worse as the season went along.

You could put Willie Roaf on on end and Jesus Christ on the other, and Damon Huard would find a way to take a sack. Not exactly a fair comparison, but hey, that's what you're good at, taking stats without context as gospel.

[OnTheWarpath15]

i'm so glad we let him go (sarcasm).

He only got 3 TKLs 5 assists, 1 sack, and some quarterback pressure/hurry.

We replaced him with a lateral player in harris (which we paid alot more for), and brought in an old player in Donnie Edwards (which we paid too much for). Now we have no depth behind the starting linebackers.

Kawika was the Giants biggest free agent acquisition and only cost them $1 million dollars.

He finished the regular season w/ 76TKL, 3.5 sacks, 2 Force fumbles, 4 passes defensed, and 1 TD. He added to that in the postseason with 20TKL, 2 sacks, and 1 pdef. http://www.nfl.com/players/gamelogs?id=MIT375441 (http://www.nfl.com/players/gamelogs?id=MIT375441)


You think the Giants phenomal Front Four might have had a little to do with how "good" Mitchell looked this year?

He's still an average LB, no more, no less. To think he would have performed at that level without a great surrounding cast (which he didn't, and wouldn't of here) is insane.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Huard might have taken more sacks, but he also won us all 4 of our games.


ROFL ROFL

Yeah, Huard put the team on his shoulders and won those games.

You might wanna go back and watch those games, he had just a little bit of help......

:rolleyes:

[Hammock Parties]

Huard might have taken more sacks, but he also won us all 4 of our games.

So you're saying all Huard needs is Jake Long to lead us to the Super Bowl?

[OnTheWarpath15]

So you're saying all Huard needs is Jake Long to lead us to the Super Bowl?

Are you kidding?

He thinks we would have won more games had we drafted Joe Staley instead of Dwayne Bowe.

Keep in mind, he doesn't bother to tell how he thinks we would have replaced 20% of our offense......

[Hammock Parties]

Are you kidding?

He thinks we would have won more games had we drafted Joe Staley instead of Dwayne Bowe.

Keep in mind, he doesn't bother to tell how he thinks we would have replaced 20% of our offense......

Bowe was closer to 25% of the offense. :shake:

[el borracho]

Blah blah blah Jake Long or we all die blah blah blah.
You have reached almost a religious fanaticism. Why are you so passionate about taking Jake Long and nobody else?

[Hammock Parties]

plus 2 veteran cbs which, for all the complaints of them being old and slow, kept the pass D at 5th in the nfl.

That ranking is deceiving.

The Chiefs were 21st in yards per attempt allowed, which isn't good.

[Nzoner]

"Hope" is one emotion that no sane Chiefs fan should ever be foolish enough to embrace.


at least as long as Carl and Herm reside at One Arrowhead Drive

[OnTheWarpath15]

Bowe was closer to 25% of the offense. :shake:

You're absolutely correct. My mistake.

I used the opponents yardage numbers by mistake.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Generally the same help that was afforded to Croyle. Yes, LJ was hurt, but he wasnt very productive before his injury in 2007. Also, the line was arguably better while Croyle was starting (with Niswanger and Svitek playing and with the line more 'gelled' in the 2nd half of the season) than when Huard was starting.


ROFL ROFL

You might be the only person on this board that thinks the OL got BETTER as the year went on. I could see where someone who doesn't understand football would make that assessment, since Damon Huard has a tendency to make a OL look worse than it really is.

Same help my ass.

[el borracho]

Oh, did I assume too much? I thought you were arguing that we need to take an Olineman with our 1st pick this year. Was I wrong? Who were you referring to here, "we need to upgrade our offensive line so that our team is more balanced"?

[el borracho]

By the way, I don't know of anyone in the "defense at all costs" camp. I think people lobbying for a defensive player with our 1st pick are doing so because they feel that player will be the BPA with our pick or because they feel that there will be more quality offensive players and less quality defensive players available to us later.

[the Talking Can]

We should definitely take hope from this. Our defensive line compares favorably to the Giants' line, right? I mean, they have all these bigtime players there. We've got one bigtime player, who Carl's trying desperately to run out of town.

They have an offensive line that was simply great last night. We've got one that's been declining for 3 years or more. They draft linemen, we sign castoffs. Or trade draft picks for them.

They brought in a free agent WR who was huge for them down the stretch. Until this year we drafted any number of undersized project guys in the middle or later rounds.

They have a QB they trust at the controls. We thought Damon Huard was the answer. Coughlin also had the guts to pull Warner when he was sucking and go with the kid. We had to be drug into it kicking and screaming.

They have a great d-coordinator. We have stuck by Gunther for how many years now?

We signed our, what, 28 year old power back to a huge contract for 5 more years. They just picked a guy from a small college out of the 4th round and plugged him in.

The similarities never end...

nice post

we should coin a new term for the lexicon: simihilarities

these are non-similarities peddled by Carl's cadre of "9-7" loving ass monkeys - Gretz, Dufus, goatse, findthehootie etc....

[Hammock Parties]

I am not in the closet bandwagon. I'd be happy with either Long or Ellis.

[OnTheWarpath15]

our rush offense wouldnt be 32nd in the league, which means we would have had a more balanced offense, which means less 3 and outs. Bowe's 995 yards would have easily been replaced.

Easily replace 1000 yards? You're insane. Care to tell us how? Would we have run for 2200 yards with LJ hurt half of the year? You're a fraud.

Bullshit.
where have I mentioned his name in this thread?

maybe you better take a look at the "Defense at all costs" camp first.

Seriously, you're an idiot.

You can cry about the "defense at all costs" camp all you want. Anyone who can, and chooses to read knows that's not true.

I find it funny that you have the balls to say we're "D" at all costs, when we've said at every opportunity that we're about VALUE and DEPTH.

We don't care who it is, as long as when the time comes, it's the BPA. Few people think that player will be Jake Long but you. He may already be gone, it'll be a moot point, and then you can go root for the Rams or whoever takes him.

I'm all for taking Jake Long if Dorsey, Ellis and Chris Long are off the board. The are all better players, and provide better VALUE, IMO.

SO, AGAIN, FOR THE CHEAP SEATS:

It only makes sense that if you have two players rated equally, that you would take the guy who plays the position with the shallowest depth pool. Use the depth at that position to your advantage.

[OnTheWarpath15]

By the way, I don't know of anyone in the "defense at all costs" camp. I think people lobbying for a defensive player with our 1st pick are doing so because they feel that player will be the BPA with our pick or because they feel that there will be more quality offensive players and less quality defensive players available to us later.

It's official:

Everyone understands this concept but him.

[el borracho]

By posts and the retorts:

Mecca
Mecca's minions: Tribal warfare, onthewarpath, holmez, elboracho, (appoligies to others i left out)
Closet Bandwagon: Goatse
Oh, please. I would draft Dorsey, Ellis or C. Long before J. Long because I believe they are better players. I can't speak for Mecca, et al, but if the top 3 players I just listed are gone I would be happy to take J. Long. I haven't seen anybody suggest taking Gholston in the above scenario, have you?

[el borracho]

ROFL simihilarities! ROFL

[OnTheWarpath15]

I am not in the closet bandwagon. I'd be happy with either Long or Ellis.

I love how he calls us Mecca's Minions, because we "must" be getting brainwashed if we're not on the same page as him. :rolleyes:

God forbid there are actually some people on this board who understand the nuances of the draft, and we've all held the same opinion as long as we've been part of ChiefsPlanet. This isn't exclusive to this year.

Take the BPA. Draft for value. Take advantage of the depth at certain positions.

In his little world, he's right, and the ENTIRE REST OF THE BOARD IS WRONG.

[ChiefsCountry]

Didnt the Giants draft Mathias Kiwanuka the DE out of Boston College in the first round?

[Hammock Parties]

Didnt the Giants draft Mathias Kiwanuka the DE out of Boston College in the first round?

He was injured. But they are loaded.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Didnt the Giants draft Mathias Kiwanuka the DE out of Boston College in the first round?

Yep.

[Mecca]

Oh, please. I would draft Dorsey, Ellis or C. Long before J. Long because I believe they are better players. I can't speak for Mecca, et al, but if the top 3 players I just listed are gone I would be happy to take J. Long. I haven't seen anybody suggest taking Gholston in the above scenario, have you?

I just got here, it's funny to see that he thinks I have "minions". If those 3 players were gone, which I highly doubt happens by the way, Then you weigh the next 3, Ryan, Gholston and Jake Long...

Then that becomes a really tough call, Gholston might be a Freeney type lining up at end in a 4-3.

[el borracho]

I just got here, it's funny to see that he thinks I have "minions". If those 3 players were gone, which I highly doubt happens by the way, Then you weigh the next 3, Ryan, Gholston and Jake Long...

Then that becomes a really tough call, Gholston might be a Freeney type lining up at end in a 4-3.
Oh, now you've done it! ROFL You are going to make findthedr's head explode!

[Hammock Parties]

Gholston is clearly superior to Jake Long. Who beat who for a sack? :D

[The Bad Guy]

I would welcome 200 voyager's back than dealing with this findthedouche moron anymore.

[Mecca]

Oh, now you've done it! ROFL You are going to make findthedr's head explode!

LOL well hey after last night, I think most already knew this but anyone that didn't should have seen. The Pats have as good a line as anyone in the game and the Giants Dline was still to much for them.

You build that line with several top notch players that can rotate and last for a whole game you can take away an entire offense.

Someone might go "but we have ends!" the Giants drafted 2 more ends when they already had 2....you can never have to many good Dlineman.

[Mecca]

Drafting BPA at all costs is how you have good drafts...drafting for your biggest need is how you have shitty drafts and how several bad teams have remained bad....

[Hammock Parties]

Joe Staley is awesome...the 49ers scored big time. Without Joe Staley, who knows where the 49ers would have ranked on offense this year. Oh wait...they ranked 32nd. The only team that was actually WORSE THAN THE CHIEFS. ROFL

[The Bad Guy]

So Priest would not have been injured if we had Joe Staley?

Just stop already. You obviously don't have a functional brain.

I never thought I would see the day where someone complained about having Dwayne Bowe, but leave it to findthedouche to re-write the book on Chiefsplanet stupidity.

[Mecca]

He's one of those guys that thinks any Olineman is more important than every other position...

Joe Staley is so good he couldn't get on the field until Jonas Jennings got injured..on a team that starts Kwame Harris.

[The Bad Guy]

Joe Staley is awesome...the 49ers scored big time. Without Joe Staley, who knows where the 49ers would have ranked on offense this year. Oh wait...they ranked 32nd. The only team that was actually WORSE THAN THE CHIEFS. ROFL

Pure comedy.

Dwayne Bowe has a chance to be an elite receiver, but findthedouche is going to complain about that.

[Hammock Parties]

Joe Staley was so great this year he only gave up 9 sacks...facing the 2nd-best DE week in and week out at right tackle...

[Mecca]

as the Pats former director for college scouting (now the GM of Atlanta) said, " Draft for need."

He might know a thing or 2.

Considering you are taking what he said completely out of context, that's great. You should learn some reading comprehension skills...

Guess the Ravens don't know how to draft either, since they take the best player regardless of position 9 out of 10 times..the 2 times they reached they paid for it, hrm.

[The Bad Guy]

as the Pats former director for college scouting (now the GM of Atlanta) said, " Draft for need."

He might know a thing or 2.

It's pretty easy to draft for need when you're picking lower than 25 every year.

**** off.

[Mecca]

Yea man the Pats draft for need eh..Brandon Meriweather was their first pick last year...

[OnTheWarpath15]

your insane. who knows, maybe priest might not have been injured (if anything he would have picked up more yards), kolby would have had more yards.

The throws going to Bowe could have either been dump offs to the backfield, parker, webb, or the other wr on our roster (maybe sippio or maybe hannon).

When LJ got hurt, Kolby got his touches. If Bowe wasnt on our team, some other player would have gotten passes thrown their way. Individualy the might not have been more succesful, but collectively (with Staley or Ugoh manning the right side) our RB would have more room to run, our qb wouldnt have been sacked as much, and our wrs could have the time to run deep which would have spread the field.

ROFL ROFL

Yeah, I'm insane. I'm not the one using "MAYBE" as my rebuttal.

Maybe Priest doesn't get hurt, maybe Sippio (HA!) maybe Hannon, maybe....

MAYBE we could have traded for the 99 Rams?

There's not a soul on this board that thinks that we would have been better off with Joe Staley than Dwayne Bowe. Well, except you.




1. your playing a game of semantics. Here is your opinion:
Draft BPA at all cost.
D players are BPA
thus Draft D players at all costs.

2. chiefs will be drafting either 4th or 5th. Jake Long was a consensus top 5 player if he came out in the 2007 draft. Jake Long is a consensus top 5 player in virtually EVERY major positional ranking site. If Jake Long is available when the chiefs draft, he would likely be the BPA.

He'd likely be the BPA to YOU.

I guess all these pro scouts (who's work helps build each teams draft boards) that question his agility and footwork and think he'll end up being Robert Gallery, Part II and moved to RT are all wrong. Yet THEY get paid to scout players, while you try to argue that Samie Parker is the next Joe Horn, or that without Dwayne Bowe we "maybe" would have been able to replace 25% of our offense.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Yea man the Pats draft for need eh..Brandon Meriweather was their first pick last year...

Yeah, I asked him to tell me when the last time the Pats drafted for need and passed on the BPA.....

He responded by saying I should do the reserach.

Typical.....

[The Bad Guy]

He's one of those guys that thinks any Olineman is more important than every other position...

Joe Staley is so good he couldn't get on the field until Jonas Jennings got injured..on a team that starts Kwame Harris.

Since I didn't want findthedouche disputing this, I thought I would..

Staley started all year I believe at RT. Kwame Harris played backup.

[blueballs]

There are just threads and threads of posters sucking Mecca off

[Mecca]

Since I didn't want findthedouche disputing this, I thought I would..

Staley started all year I believe at RT. Kwame Harris played backup.

I think you're right now that I think about it, I remember flipping on a game and seeing Jennings and Harris playing, I didn't seek out Niners games or see them all that much so my mistake.

Either way I bet the Niners wish they hadn't done that trade now, and wanting a RT over an elite potential WR is dr being dr.

[Mecca]

Dude I'm talking DT this year because that'll be the best player when we pick, last year I wanted a WR...the players I want have 0 to do with wanting that position over others. The year before I wanted Cromartie.

Someone who's been here the entire time I've been..when was the last time I wanted to pick a DT?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Another incorrect inference.

SF was 24th in 2006
and 32nd in 2007

SF fans, and those educated will tell you the diffrence was chiefly due to the loss of Norv Turner among other reasons.

You can continue to infer that the dropoff was due to Staley.

No one said they sucked BECAUSE of Staley. You're saying the Chiefs would have been BETTER with Staley. He alone didn't make the Niners better, obviously, so there's no reason t think he would have made the Chiefs any better. ESPECIALLY when you're taking 25% of the offense away to get him.

Your one of those guys that thinks Defensive Takle is more important that every other position......

Again, think what you want. If you would actually read other people's posts, you'd know this isn't true. You wonder why people think you're a jackass?

Another thing you are wrong about

Something he admitted to in a later post.

please tell me who these scouts are with links to their comments.

You know damn good and well those pages don't get archived. You also know damn good and well that those are, and have been legitimate concerns of Long. You can try to ignore it if you want, but just about everyone here has seen and read them.

[the Talking Can]

Out of context?!
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=179010

Seems like you need some reading comprehension skills!


you're not only stupid, you're dishonest...that is not the whole quote...

jesus tap dancing christ....you don't even understand the English ****ing language:

His philosophy on drafting is simple.

"Draft for need," Dimitroff said. "System specific scouting."


he is contexualizing the statement specifically so idiots like you don't misunderstand him......

[the Talking Can]

the test is simple:

would you haven taken Bowe or taken Staley?


it tells everything about your philosophy, and, in general, your intelligence....

"9-7 win now (Carl-ism)" vs "build a championship team however painful it is"

thankfully Herm claims he is doing the latter - and proved so by drafting Bowe - after 15 years of failure directly related to doing the former (and doing the former for the sole purpose of appeasing True Fans like findthehootie....)

[OnTheWarpath15]

Dude I'm talking DT this year because that'll be the best player when we pick, last year I wanted a WR...the players I want have 0 to do with wanting that position over others. The year before I wanted Cromartie.

Someone who's been here the entire time I've been..when was the last time I wanted to pick a DT?

You have a couple of months on me, but to my recollection?

Never.

[Hammock Parties]

Another incorrect inference.

SF was 24th in 2006
and 32nd in 2007

SF fans, and those educated will tell you the diffrence was chiefly due to the loss of Norv Turner among other reasons.

You can continue to infer that the dropoff was due to Staley.

WTF?

This has nothing to do with 2006.

You insinuated that the Chiefs would have been better on offense with Joe Staley this year.

The offense Joe Staley played on was ranked 32nd. NO ONE WAS WORSE.

And Joe Staley gave up a ton of sacks.

He sucked this year and provided the 49ers with MUCH LESS than Dwayne Bowe did the Chiefs.

Simple logic.

[OnTheWarpath15]

newsflash: People think your a jackass

Really? Find me a link.


Isnt it sweet, one of Mecca's bitches coming to defend him.

Yep, I'm defending him. :rolleyes:

Or you could just be grossly neglecting to tell the entire story, again.

excuses. Keep refrencing supposed scouts who think Jake long is Robert Gallery II without proof.

Look at it as an excuse all you want, anyone who follows the draft knows that these scouts don't archive their work.

There's no "supposed" about it.

SHOW OF HANDS, EVERYBODY:

How many of you have seen said reports of concerns about Jake Long's ability to play LT in the past?

I'm not making this up, you retard. You just choose to ignore the facts.

Do us all a favor. Go back to the Coalition or where ever you came from. Maybe over there they'll buy the shit you're shoveling, but not here.

[Mecca]

I'm going to add this because it's relevant, a very good friend of mine who is a Cowboys fan doesn't believe they will re-sign Flozell Adams...the Chiefs should pony up some money if that happens.

[Hammock Parties]

I'm going to add this because it's relevant, a very good friend of mine who is a Cowboys fan doesn't believe they will re-sign Flozell Adams...the Chiefs should pony up some money if that happens.

This is a departure from your normal line of reasoning.

Adams is 32 years old. He had 14 penalties last year. He's old, and penalty-prone. Do the Chiefs really want that type of player?

[OnTheWarpath15]

I'm going to add this because it's relevant, a very good friend of mine who is a Cowboys fan doesn't believe they will re-sign Flozell Adams...the Chiefs should pony up some money if that happens.

5 years ago, I'd agree.

[Hammock Parties]

3
1. Do you think Joe staley was the reason that SF was ranked 32?

No.


2. Do you think Joe Staley was worse than the combination of guys playing RT for the chiefs (Terry/Turley/Welbourn/Svitek)?

No.


3. Did Joe Staley give up more sacks than the combo of guys playing RT for the chiefs?

No.

Now I have a question for you.

Do you think Joe Staley contributed more to the 49ers than Dwayne Bowe contributed to the Chiefs? If so, how in the hell do you come to that conclusion?

[Mecca]

I think he can play for 4 years and in this teams situation that would be ok. You can't fill EVERYTHING in the draft. He can hold the spot 3-4 years while you build the rest of the line with young guys so when you replace him everything else is already setup.

I'm generally not for signing older guys, but if you can sign him draft Ellis and 2 young lineman then he can hold his spot long enough to allow you to get in position where when you replace him most everything else is set up.

[OnTheWarpath15]

3 questions (please answer yes or no):

1. Do you think Joe staley was the reason that SF was ranked 32?
2. Do you think Joe Staley was worse than the combination of guys playing RT for the chiefs (Terry/Turley/Welbourn/Svitek)?
3. Did Joe Staley give up more sacks than the combo of guys playing RT for the chiefs?

I know you are not a fan of football outsiders, but it showed that SF was 9th in the NFL when rushing behind the RG, and 16th behind the RT. The chiefs were 30th and 29th respectively.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol.php


Why are you limiting him to a YES/NO answer?

Again with the conditions.

He could answer all of those questions favorably toward your argument, but it still doesn't answer the most important question:

How would the Chiefs have made up 25% of their offense?

"MAYBE" is not an answer.....

[Mecca]

If you just read dr's posts you'd think LT was by far the most import position that ever existed in football and Jake Long was by far the best prospect that ever existed.

[Hammock Parties]

I think he can play for 4 years and in this teams situation that would be ok. You can't fill EVERYTHING in the draft. He can hold the spot 3-4 years while you build the rest of the line with young guys so when you replace him everything else is already setup.

I'm generally not for signing older guys, but if you can sign him draft Ellis and 2 young lineman then he can hold his spot long enough to allow you to get in position where when you replace him most everything else is set up.

You don't think FOURTEEN penalties is a big problem?

The Cowboys can overcome that because the rest of their offense is so explosive. Can the Chiefs?

[OnTheWarpath15]

nothing like a "show of hands" on a messageboard.
kinda like the sound of one hand clapping.
retard.

you said:
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=4572475&postcount=96

If people have seen this, than it should be easy to post links, easily. Its time to put up or shut up.

The reality is that it isnt pro scouts saying this, but a few dumbasses on messageboards.
http://home.hawaii.rr.com/ax1s/dumbass.jpg

If I'm such a dumbass, where are all the people arguing with ME and siding with YOU?

[Hammock Parties]

Staley would have been an upgrade to the Turkey's we had playing at RT and, IMO, would have solidified the right side of the chiefs line. IMO, that would have won us more games in 2007 because that would result in less QB sacks, more rushing yards, and more deep passed due to time to increased time to throw.


Going from absolutely horrible to bad (9 sacks allowed) would not have made much of a difference.

Especially with Bowe not out there. The guy made a ton of plays no other receiver was capable of.

Dwayne Bowe > Joe Staley. You even agree with me, so the discussion is moot.

[Mecca]

You don't think FOURTEEN penalties is a big problem?

The Cowboys can overcome that because the rest of their offense is so explosive. Can the Chiefs?

He'd still by far be our best lineman though, it's obvious he still has the goods. The Giants Dline never abused him like I've seen them do to other teams...

He's not a long term fix but if you wanna see what Croyle has he can be good for the next couple years.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I appreciate you answering the questions, and answering them honestly.

That is my point. Staley would have been an upgrade to the Turkey's we had playing at RT and, IMO, would have solidified the right side of the chiefs line. IMO, that would have won us more games in 2007 because that would result in less QB sacks, more rushing yards, and more deep passed due to time to increased time to throw.


No.

So, we would have won more games by getting rid of 25% of our offense.

Brilliant.

Not only do you have to make up the 25% you'd lose from the loss of Bowe, you'd have to ADD TO IT, in theory, to be able to win games.

So I don't put words in your mouth, like you have mine, and everyone else's:

You're saying we would have had MORE TOTAL OFFENSIVE YARDS and TOUCHDOWNS with Staley as opposed to Bowe?

Because without replacing, then EXCEEDING those lost yards/points, you can't POSSIBLY expect to win MORE games.

[Mecca]

Yea because you know drafting a LT in the top 5 that's brilliant...

I'd rather sign Flozell Adams and draft a OT in the 2nd round and let him start at RT and see how that goes..you at least then find out of Croyle is any good. Then in 3-4 years if you've done what you should have been doing and it's time to replace Adams the rest of your Oline is good and so is your Dline so you sit in a better spot.

[OnTheWarpath15]

that would be really stupid.

http://bp1.blogger.com/_D6P0tJHTu0I/Rwygn-XoC6I/AAAAAAAAAOA/DsLy54AQHH8/s320/blindlblind.jpg (http://bp1.blogger.com/_D6P0tJHTu0I/Rwygn-XoC6I/AAAAAAAAAOA/DsLy54AQHH8/s1600-h/blindlblind.jpg)


That's real smart.

Insult the entire board.

What a jerkoff.

[Hammock Parties]

That's not logical.

Staley couldn't get the 49ers above 32nd. Why would he get the Chiefs above 31st?

[Mecca]

You are advocating having a worse player.......you really are a fan of this team aren't you? Bad drafting history has warped your mind as to what you think drafting good actually is.

[Mecca]

That's not logical.

Staley couldn't get the 49ers above 32nd. Why would he get the Chiefs above 31st?

The Chiefs woulda looked real good with their 0 WR's out there.

[Hammock Parties]

thats a seriously stupid idea. what do you plan on doing with McIntosh?

Why does it matter?

The Chiefs have little invested in him.

Mecca's idea is actually intriguing because Adams IS 32, but McIntosh is 31 I believe.

[Mecca]

This team needs way to many things to draft 4 offensive lineman in the same draft....

I'm looking for flexibility, so say if OT's do go the Chiefs could draft say Sedrick Ellis and Rodgers-Cromartie and still not be screwed while getting guys that will start right away.

[ChiefsCountry]

A player I woudlnt mind the Chiefs signing is Jacob Bell from the Titans. He is a guard, but has played all positions besides center. I think he could be a good guard combo with Waters.

[ChiefsCountry]

Here is the question - 5 years from now would you rather have a Pro Bowl WR in Bowe or a solid RT in Joe Staley?

[Hammock Parties]

how many penalties did McIntosh have?
how many sacks did both give up?

Are you seriously suggesting the two are comparable at all?

Adams is a much more dominant player.

[Hammock Parties]

For the 3rd time Staley wasnt the reason that SF was 32nd in offense!


I didn't say he was.

But if Staley couldn't improve the 49ers, it follows that he probably couldn't improve the Chiefs.

He's just not much of an impact player. NO RIGHT TACKLE IS. Bowe is.

[ChiefsCountry]

A superbowl win

without that the rest doesnt really matter (even "more wins").

You know how you can get Super Bowl wins, draft impact players.

[Eleazar]

This is still so funny to me. I was thinking sitting on the couch as the game wound down that I was going to post a thread when I got home, that I bet Gretz or Doofus or one of the other writers swinging from Carl's nutsack would have a column up in a few days telling how this proved Carl is a genious. Before I can even get the website to work here it is. I just about died laughing.

[alanm]

How many first rounders were on the Giants O-line?

The answer is zero.
But... But... How could that be??? :eek:

Dorsey or Ellis. If either one's there nab him.

[The Bad Guy]

thats a seriously stupid idea. what do you plan on doing with McIntosh?

Heck, if the chiefs ended up only getting a Tackle in the 2nd rnd, than I would have that guy start at RT, while McIntosh starts at LT, and than draft some Guards/Centers or see if Svitek, Taylor, Niswanger, or Jones could somehow man the middle.

I'm sorry - I'm not going to let a journeyman LT stand in the way of upgrading this team.

Throw him at guard.

[Hammock Parties]

I was thinking sitting on the couch as the game wound down that I was going to post a thread when I got home, that I bet Gretz or Doofus or one of the other writers swinging from Carl's nutsack would have a column up in a few days telling how this proved Carl is a genious.

This has NOTHING to do with Carl. NOTHING.

It has everything to do with Herm Edwards and how he handicaps his football team.

The article says "Herm has weaknesses, but those weaknesses don't necessarily prevent a Super Bowl from happening. The Giants are living proof."

[OnTheWarpath15]

relax yourself.

I know its hard to believe, but Mecca isnt the entire board.
yes

please try to keep up.

No, Mecca isn't the entire board, but you're insulting anyone who holds the same draft beliefs as he and I do, which is a majority of the regulars on this board.

That's insulting the entire board, and between that and your idiotic statements, you're not exactly gonna catch any slack.

Makes sense, the abuse you're taking. You've all but asked for it.

Coming here like you're the second coming of Vince Lombardi, claiming to be the genius and that everyone else is stupid?

Or claiming that I'm one of Mecca's minions?

If it wasn't painfully obvious that you ignore other peoples posts before, you've driven that fact home with that dumbass statement.

Mecca will be the first to tell you.....I've given him as much shit as anyone on this board. But I'll tell you this - he knows the game, and how the "business" is run.

He's a bit of a vilified figure around here. He takes a lot of shots. So to see people coming out in droves to side with him says quite a bit about how they feel about you and your position.

You might be able to get away with this game over at the Coalition, but over here, when people see bullshit, they're gonna call you on it.

Ask the old timers. You gotta earn respect before you're given respect around here. Taking this "me against the world" approach isn't going to endear you to anyone.

[007]

Late to the party here. What's all the talk of hope? What is hope?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Late to the party here. What's all the talk of hope? What is hope?

I've heard it springs eternal.

Other than that?


:shrug:

:p

[007]

I've heard it springs eternal.

Other than that?


:shrug:

:p
http://www.nbc.com/Days_of_our_Lives/bios/images/actors/Kristian_Alfonso.jpg

[FAX]

Her lips look as though they're made of rubber.

Away with you, Rubber Lip Lady!!!

FAX

[FAX]

I think this is interesting. I found this somewhere on a web place. Could you ever imagine the HairyAssWarts doing something like this?

... Rookie TE Kevin Boss, Jeremy Shockey's replacement, said that the huge 45-yard reception in the fourth quarter that led to the Giants' first go-ahead touchdown was a play that hadn't even been worked on all week. "Coach (Kevin) Gilbride drew it in the dirt on the sideline," he said. "It was designed to get me away from (linebacker Mike) Vrabel, who had been trying to get his hands on me all game." ...

FAX

[xbarretx]

good article C :thumb:

[Mecca]

Bengals have a probowl WR in Chad Johnson. That hasnt gotten them a superbowl win or respect.

YOu get a Superbowl win by having a better TEAM (players + playcalling).

So it's Johnsons fault they don't have enough impact players? He isn't the problem there...

[Sure-Oz]

It goes back to the question posed in post 142:


Any my reply that I would rather have a superbowl win.
Chad johnson is a probowl wr. The team has alot of impact players. They are not a balanced team or the better team.

San Diego is a great case in point: they have alot of high impact players (probowl players) on Offense and Defense, but they arent the best TEAM on the field and thus havent won a superbowl.

To be the best TEAM they have to do it by teamwork (that means players + playcalling).

For the Giants, their defense kept the score low, and gave their Offense an oppurtunity to win the game. Neither part did it by themselves.
doesn't helps SD that their best player became a little bitch in the playoffs the last 2 years...

what was his mystery injury anyway

[Mecca]

Please for the love of God don't use the Chargers as a bad example, if the Chiefs draft as well as that team and put together a team as talented as that we should all be THRILLED.

The Chargers have Superbowl talent.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Please for the love of God don't use the Chargers as a bad example, if the Chiefs draft as well as that team and put together a team as talented as that we should all be THRILLED.

The Chargers have Superbowl talent.

Yeah, that's a horrible example.

The Colts had Super Bowl talent for years before they finally broke through.

It doesn't happen immediately, and there just happens to be 31 other teams trying to accomplish the same thing.

In all actuality, the best team rarely wins the SB. The team that gets hot at the right time does.

[xbarretx]

but not recent superbowl wins.

wins> talent

oh come on, look what happened when we went 13-3.....

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2004/writers/don_banks/09/22/burning.questions/p3_chiefs_si.jpg