What QB do you like in this draft class?

[suds79]

In relation to where we’ll have to pick to get him.

Round projection via - http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com

Poll forthcoming...

[OnTheWarpath15]

Other: Josh Johnson and Kevin O'Connell of San Diego State.

[Deberg_1990]

The latest ive seen is Henne going very early 2nd round. Perhaps we could get him there if we dont get Ryan? I think Brohm is gonna go late 1st round.

[CosmicPal]

The Chiefs should consider a QB, but I don't think they should take Matt Ryan. If Chad Henne is to be available in the 3rd, which I don't believe he will be, but if he is- he'd be an absolute steal then. I'd honestly take him over Ryan.

[keg in kc]

If we don't draft Ryan, I don't think we draft a QB in this class, at least not an early-round one. I don't think Brohm will be on the board when we pick in the 2nd (and I'm not sure I'd take him if he was) and I'm not at all sold on Chad Henne (I say this as a Michigan fan). Anything after that and it's either Brodie Croyle part deux or a project we're grooming as a career backup.

[Sully]

Henne scares me... he just does.
Flacco reminds me of Grbac.
I think I'd like Woodson a little lower.
I like Brohm in the 2nd.
I like Ryan in the first (a little, though with the other options...meh)
No on JDB.
I could live with a low pick of Ainge.

[CosmicPal]

Henne scares me... he just does.


Just curious....why does Henne scare you?

Scare you in a good way? Scare you in a bad way?

[nychief]

I think Ryan has to be considered... but I also think the Falcons are going to grab him. Otherwise...I don't know. Brohm is my favorite after Ryan - but we have so many holes to fill, unless you think he is a franchise QB (ryan) I don't know if you waste a pick for a backup player.

[Sully]

Just curious....why does Henne scare you?

Scare you in a good way? Scare you in a bad way?

I'm afraid he will eat children in my neighborhood.

No...really... I can't put my finger on it, I just don't have a good feeling about the guy. For some reason, with him, I get the same type of gut feeling I did with guys like Cade McNown and Philip Rivers. Not terribly scientific, or backed up with facts, I just get that type of feeling.

[nychief]

I'm afraid he will eat children in my neighborhood.

No...really... I can't put my finger on it, I just don't have a good feeling about the guy. For some reason, with him, I get the same type of gut feeling I did with guys like Cade McNown and Philip Rivers. Not terribly scientific, or backed up with facts, I just get that type of feeling.



I'd take Philip Rivers.

[penguinz]

Matt Ryan will be an average QB in the NFL. Not worth top 5 pick.

[keg in kc]

No...really... I can't put my finger on it, I just don't have a good feeling about the guy. For some reason, with him, I get the same type of gut feeling I did with guys like Cade McNown and Philip Rivers. Not terribly scientific, or backed up with facts, I just get that type of feeling.Watching him play for four years, he was never bad, but I never saw "it" in him. When I look at Henne I see the next Elvis Grbac or Todd Collins. Sad to say, if we're really Herm-strated on offense, he'd probably fit perfectly, actually, as a game manager asked not to screw up, but I don't see him as anything more than that long-term.

That doesn't mean he won't turn into a star. I've been wrong before, and sometimes you can get biased against guys that played on teams you root for, but that's what I see...

[Frankie]

Matt Ryan reminds me a lot of the other guy who went to Detroit in the 5th +/- spot after David Carr went first. Can't remember his name, but I remember Carl had a woody for him and so did a lot of yous on the Planet. How did that turn out?

I picked Chad Henne in the 3rd as the best value in this poll. Booty in the 4th (not 3rd) might be a good choice.

[Frankie]

Matt Ryan will be an average QB in the NFL. Not worth top 5 pick.

I think so too. See my last post.

[DTLB58]

I really don't watch college football enough to evaluate players.

I just think we have committed to Brodie and we have waaay to many other holes to fill. Give Brodie the most help you can and see what he can do.

[milkman]

Matt Ryan reminds me a lot of the other guy who went to Detroit in the 5th +/- spot after David Carr went first. Can't remember his name, but I remember Carl had a woody for him and so did a lot of yous on the Planet. How did that turn out?

I picked Chad Henne in the 3rd as the best value in this poll. Booty in the 4th (not 3rd) might be a good choice.

Joey Harrington?

Harrington had talent, but he just didn't get it mentally.

He probably threw away his best opportunity for success when he decided to get out of Detroit just as Martz was taking over the offense.

I think Martz could have made him an NFL QB.

[milkman]

Watching him play for four years, he was never bad, but I never saw "it" in him. When I look at Henne I see the next Elvis Grbac or Todd Collins. Sad to say, if we're really Herm-strated on offense, he'd probably fit perfectly, actually, as a game manager asked not to screw up, but I don't see him as anything more than that long-term.

That doesn't mean he won't turn into a star. I've been wrong before, and sometimes you can get biased against guys that played on teams you root for, but that's what I see...

I've only seen Michigan about 7 times in the last 3 years, but is pretty much how I feel about Henne.

[Direckshun]

1. Eric Ainge in the mid round is a steal.
2. Matt Ryan.
3. Josh Johnson in the 3rd or 4th.
4. Kevin O'Connell in the 6th or 7th.
5. Andre Woodson in the 3rd.

[chiefscafan]

i've said it before say it again brohm if there at our pick is a major value pick and could be steal of the draft.

[RedandGold]

I like Brohm in the 2nd, but I don't like the poll choice of him in the 1st. If we're picking anyone in the first, it should be Matt Ryan. Of the other poll choices, I like Woodson in the 3rd.

I wouldn't take Colt Brennan unless he was still on the board late in the second day.

[Deberg_1990]

I'm afraid he will eat children in my neighborhood.

No...really... I can't put my finger on it, I just don't have a good feeling about the guy. For some reason, with him, I get the same type of gut feeling I did with guys like Cade McNown and Philip Rivers. Not terribly scientific, or backed up with facts, I just get that type of feeling.
\

Id take Rivers in a heartbeat.

[Brock]

If Matt Ryan reminds you of Joey Harrington, it's because you never watched either one of them play.

[Deberg_1990]

If Matt Ryan reminds you of Joey Harrington, it's because you never watched either one of them play.

Ive read he compares favorably to Matt Hasselbeck. Id take that kind of production, no doubt.

[Logical]

I like Brohm in the 2nd, but I don't like the poll choice of him in the 1st. If we're picking anyone in the first, it should be Matt Ryan. Of the other poll choices, I like Woodson in the 3rd.

I wouldn't take Colt Brennan unless he was still on the board late in the second day.I assume that is what was meant by mid rounder.

[suds79]

I like Brohm in the 2nd, but I don't like the poll choice of him in the 1st. If we're picking anyone in the first, it should be Matt Ryan. Of the other poll choices, I like Woodson in the 3rd.

I wouldn't take Colt Brennan unless he was still on the board late in the second day.

I think Brohm could be a great value pick in the 2nd also but it appears that a lot of sites have him going in the late 1st. So I think we'd have to work some kind of trade to get in the range where he's going to go.

I like Henee and/or Woodson if they slip to the 3rd.

Henee comes from a system that typically produces good NFL QBs and Woodson has a nice completion percentage.

I also thought Eric Ainge did a nice job at the Senior Bowl in the limited time I've seen him.

And all 3 of those QBs are much bigger guys than Croyle and probably better suited to deal with the punishment NFL players can dish out.

[pr_capone]

Brennan.... I really like the kid.

[Deberg_1990]

Brennan.... I really like the kid.

Hes got some nice "moxie" but hes a HUUUUUGGGE project. Hes be ok to take a flyer on in the 4th-7th round.

Some team will. My guess is, he wil go in the 4-5th round somewhere.

[CoMoChief]

Honestly I don't think any of the QB's in this years draft will do anything as a pro.

[pr_capone]

Hes got some nice "moxie" but hes a HUUUUUGGGE project. Hes be ok to take a flyer on in the 4th-7th round.

Some team will. My guess is, he wil go in the 4-5th round somewhere.

Like I said in another thread.... if Brennan is there when we go to pick in the 4th, I would like to see him picked up.

I realized he played in a weak conference but the numbers he put up there were astonishing.

[Sully]

\

Id take Rivers in a heartbeat.

Yeah, that was merely a comparison of how I felt about him. My "feeling" method isn't nearly 100%. But coming out of college, I just had a definite "meh" feeling about him.

[The Franchise]

Other - Josh Johnson

[suds79]

Like I said in another thread.... if Brennan is there when we go to pick in the 4th, I would like to see him picked up.

I realized he played in a weak conference but the numbers he put up there were astonishing.

The thing is about Col Brennan that scares me is that he seems pretty frail.

At the Senior Bowl he was 6'2 185.

Now he bumped up to 205 at the combine but he's still pretty small. He's skinnier than Croyle.

Plus like a lot of QBs from the spread offense, he has little to no time taking snaps under center.

[KCChiefsMan]

I say we ride the Brodie train this year and if he isn't going to work out we wait until next year for a QB. Of course, I don't know what the talent will be like next year though.

[suds79]

I say we ride the Brodie train this year and if he isn't going to work out we wait until next year for a QB. Of course, I don't know what the talent will be like next year though.

So you're for starting a rookie at that point?

[ChiefsCountry]

I like Brodie better than any of the quarterbacks in this year's draft.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Ive read he compares favorably to Matt Hasselbeck. Id take that kind of production, no doubt.

I would too, if he was there in the late first round. But a #5 pick is a franchise cornerstone, and that is not what Matt Ryan will ever be.

[KCChiefsMan]

So you're for starting a rookie at that point?

not necessarily, if Brodie looks like $hit this year (which I don't think he will). Then we draft a QB in 2009, Matt Ryan could be a good player but I'm not sure if he's worth the pick we have...he's the best QB in the class but that's not saying much this year. But if we did draft a QB high next year, I suppose you could start him from day 1, but I'm not sure if that's a great idea.

[Mecca]

Next years QB class is worse.......

Honestly when looking at the QB's you have to look at what team this is. I personally like Woodsons upside but the Chiefs would ruin him, he needs coaching and refinement same for Flacco...

The Chiefs should be high on guys like Ryan because he doesn't need much coaching he's smart and technically sound already.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Next years QB class is worse.......

Honestly when looking at the QB's you have to look at what team this is. I personally like Woodsons upside but the Chiefs would ruin him, he needs coaching and refinement same for Flacco...

The Chiefs should be high on guys like Ryan because he doesn't need much coaching he's smart and technically sound already.

That kind of logic is retarded. If you don't have good position coaches, we will endlessly suck, because you can't draft ready-made players in every round.

We might as well just give up.

Moreover, this stance directly contradicts your own belief in drafting BPA, because you are drafting a less worthy prospect based on a perceived future need or a lack of available prospects the next year (which is largely unknowable).

This is how you end up with Jr. Siavii.

[AustinChief]

http://www.mrisports.com/images/Helmets/MichiganHelmet.JPG

My guess... the best QB value in this draft... wore a helmet like this...

[Pic]

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn211/Picturesspeaklouder/shanefalco.jpg

[keg in kc]

http://www.mrisports.com/images/Helmets/MichiganHelmet.JPG

My guess... the best QB value in this draft... wore a helmet like this...Flacco?

[Mecca]

That kind of logic is retarded. If you don't have good position coaches, we will endlessly suck, because you can't draft ready-made players in every round.

We might as well just give up.

Moreover, this stance directly contradicts your own belief in drafting BPA, because you are drafting a less worthy prospect based on a perceived future need or a lack of available prospects the next year (which is largely unknowable).

This is how you end up with Jr. Siavii.

I was just telling him that because he said he didn't know about next year.....Ryan to me is was and should be a top 5 pick.

You trust the Chiefs to develop a QB that needs mechanical and footwork changes and isn't very refined? I don't.......

[Deberg_1990]

Yeah, that was merely a comparison of how I felt about him. My "feeling" method isn't nearly 100%. But coming out of college, I just had a definite "meh" feeling about him.


Rivers and Roethlisberger are two good recent examples of guys who were drafted high, turned out to be very good QB's, yet arnt exactly "dynamic, game changing, elite" QB's.

I guess the Chiefs better wait another 20-30 years before a John Elway or Peyton Manning comes along again....LOL

[nychief]

I would too, if he was there in the late first round. But a #5 pick is a franchise cornerstone, and that is not what Matt Ryan will ever be.

are you saying Hasselbeck is not a franchise QB?

[OnTheWarpath15]

are you saying Hasselbeck is not a franchise QB?

Do you think that Hasselbeck's production is worth the 5th overall pick?

I don't.

10 years in the league and not a single 4000 yard season - only 2 seasons over 3500.

1.5 TD's per INT.

Only two seasons of a QB rating over 90%

He's solid, but not Top 5 worthy. JMO.

[nychief]

Do you think that Hasselbeck's production is worth the 5th overall pick?

I don't.

10 years in the league and not a single 4000 yard season - only 2 seasons over 3500.

1.5 TD's per INT.

Only two seasons of a QB rating over 90%

He's solid, but not Top 5 worthy. JMO.


i disagree... super bowl appearance, solid, pro bowls... that is a top 5 pick. You can't expect a Hall of Famer with a top 5 pick, you expect an impact player. Hasselbeck is an impact player, if not flashy. JMO

['Hamas' Jenkins]

are you saying Hasselbeck is not a franchise QB?

Absolutely.

[OnTheWarpath15]

i disagree... super bowl appearance, solid, pro bowls... that is a top 5 pick. You can't expect a Hall of Famer with a top 5 pick, you expect an impact player. Hasselbeck is an impact player, if not flashy. JMO

I expect more from a Top 5 pick, and the organization should as well.

Carson Palmer ALREADY has more:

3500+ yard seasons (3, including two 4000+)

Seasons of 90%+ QB rating (2)

25+ TD seasons (3)

Than Hasselbeck, all in 4 years to Hasselbeck's TEN.

THAT is a Top 5 QB. Not above average.

[AustinChief]

Flacco?

I think either Flacco or Henne will end up being pretty damn good... I'm not sold on which one yet.. probably Flacco.

[ChiefsCountry]

Matt Ryan is Brodie Croyle with a bigger frame. Those two are identical in about everything, its just the freaking year they are drafted that makes the difference.

[the Talking Can]

i feel the same about QB and DT..we need top talent, not more mid-round maybes...

if we want a QB then draft Ryan, if we want a DT than draft Ellis/Dorsey....

otherwise don't waste a pick on the positions....(unless it's a 5th or lower...)

[penguinz]

Ryan to me is was and should be a top 5 pick.
Chase Daniels has better numbers in his college career.

[the Talking Can]

Chase Daniels has better numbers in his college career.

which means absolutely nothing

[angelo]

I would go Ryan if Long, Long, Dorsey and Ellis are gone in the first round.

If we were going for a back up or project.

In the middle I would consider Dennis Dixon and late I would consider Josh Johnson.

[Mecca]

Chase Daniels has better numbers in his college career.

That's nice, he's also a midget in a spread option offense.....college stats mean jack and shit.

Also Ryan and Croyle are not remotely the same as prospects, for starters I think Matt Ryan can be breathed on and not get injured.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I think either Flacco or Henne will end up being pretty damn good... I'm not sold on which one yet.. probably Flacco.

Flacco is a homeless man's Drew Bledsoe at best.

[nychief]

Hasselbeck was in and, without the refs idiocy, would have a super bowl ring. Look, I agree we should have high expectations but lets be realistic... If we drafted Matt Ryan and he had Matt Hasselbeckesque career, how could you be disappointed? BUt lets put away the time machine for now...

[nychief]

one other thing... Carson Palmer was the #1 pick... I think you're projecting number one overall expectations on every player in the top 5.

[Mecca]

one other thing... Carson Palmer was the #1 pick... I think you're projecting number one overall expectations on every player in the top 5.

Seems people think that unless you are getting a HOF QB you shouldn't be using a top 5 pick on one, it's rather unrealistic in all honesty...

[Mosbonian]

Other than Mecca whom I have had this argument with already....

Any of you who have suggested that we take Brohm in the second or Woodson in Round 3, I would like to hear what you think their upside is, and what they have over Brody Croyle?

mmaddog
*******

[Mecca]

I'd like to know what Croyle has, he reminds me of the long line of guys with big arms who sucked as QB's, it doesn't help that he can't stay on the field to save his life...

Really strong arm, injury prone, other than that what's he got?

[Frankie]

I like Brodie better than any of the quarterbacks in this year's draft.

Me too.

[Frankie]

Next years QB class is worse.......

How did this class look last year this time? Brohm and then nothing. Things change in a year.

The Chiefs should be high on guys like Ryan because he doesn't need much coaching he's smart and technically sound already.
Are the Chiefs the team who can coach all those interceptions out of him?

[Frankie]

Moreover, this stance directly contradicts your own belief in drafting BPA, because you are drafting a less worthy prospect based on a perceived future need or a lack of available prospects the next year (which is largely unknowable).

Good catch.

[eazyb81]

i disagree... super bowl appearance, solid, pro bowls... that is a top 5 pick. You can't expect a Hall of Famer with a top 5 pick, you expect an impact player. Hasselbeck is an impact player, if not flashy. JMO

Believe me, you're not going to get through to these guys. HOF or bust for the #5 pick. Just absurdly unrealistic, but what can you do.

[Frankie]

I think either Flacco or Henne will end up being pretty damn good... I'm not sold on which one yet.. probably Flacco.

Flacco was never his team's captain. What does that say about his leadership? It tells me he might be another Grbac.

[ChiefsCountry]

I'd like to know what Croyle has, he reminds me of the long line of guys with big arms who sucked as QB's, it doesn't help that he can't stay on the field to save his life...

Really strong arm, injury prone, other than that what's he got?

What does Ryan got other than an NFL body?

[eazyb81]

Matt Ryan is Brodie Croyle with a bigger frame. Those two are identical in about everything, its just the freaking year they are drafted that makes the difference.

Honestly, why the hell does the pro-Croyle crowd keeping saying this? !

The ONLY thing Croyle has on Ryan is pure arm strength, and he doesn't beat him by much. That's it. Period. Every single NFL analyst and expert would say Ryan beats Croyle in every other category. That is why Matt Ryan in a unanimous top five overall prospect and the #1 QB in this draft, while Brodie Croyle was a middle-round nobody in 2006 and no one holds him in high regard except the sheep on this board.

Seriously, some of you act like Brodie Croyle is your son or something; open your eyes, stop being biased, and realize that Croyle is a NFL backup at best.

[Mecca]

How did this class look last year this time? Brohm and then nothing. Things change in a year.


Are the Chiefs the team who can coach all those interceptions out of him?

You missed out on that whole Matt Ryan would have gone in the 1st last year when he was deciding if he was coming out or not last year eh?

And he threw picks because he put the ball up a ton of times to crappy receivers that team wouldn't have won a game without him....

People can say what they want about him but to me a guy who played in his situation is ready. Pro style offense, good size, was given freedom at the line to change plays, knows how to read defenses. Played for a coach that was an NFL coach, had to consistently put the ball in windows and rarely threw to wide open guys which prepares him much more for what he'll see in the NFL, guys rarely run free in the NFL.

I'm gonna do this one more time, since some people like to bring up stats.....

These are Brodie Croyle college stats...

2005 339 202 59.6 2,499 14 4 132.8
2004 66 44 66.7 534 6 0 164.6
2003 341 182 53.4 2,303 16 13 118.0
2002 123 60 48.8 1,046 5 5 125.5
Career 869 488 56.2 6,382 41 22 128.4

Matt Ryan is here...

2007 654 388 59.3 4,507 31 19 127.0
2006 426 262 61.5 2,939 15 10 126.4
2005 195 121 62.1 1,514 8 5 135.7
2004 71 35 49.3 350 2 3 91.5
Career 1346 806 59.9 9,310 56 37 126.2

If you don't like Ryan that's fine but give me good logical reasons not things like 'OMG Croyle is as good a prospect as him" because if you said that to NFL teams or any draft people they'd laugh you out of the room.

And stop comparing him to big armed QB's that flamed out, Croyle resembles them more than Ryan does...

[ChiefsCountry]

Honestly, why the hell does the pro-Croyle crowd keeping saying this? !

The ONLY thing Croyle has on Ryan is pure arm strength, and he doesn't beat him by much. That's it. Period. Every single NFL analyst and expert would say Ryan beats Croyle in every other category. That is why Matt Ryan in a unanimous top five overall prospect and the #1 QB in this draft, while Brodie Croyle was a middle-round nobody in 2006 and no one holds him in high regard except the sheep on this board.

Seriously, some of you act like Brodie Croyle is your son or something; open your eyes, stop being biased, and realize that Croyle is a NFL backup at best.

I wanted to draft Croyle out of college. He has what it takes to be a starting quarterback in the league. Personally I think Ryan is overrated. He lead Boston College to 10 wins the most piss ant BCS conference, Brodie did it in the SEC and his only losts were to LSU and Auburn, arguabley 2 of the top 5 most talented college teams in the nation. They both had nearly identical compeltion percentage which is a better stat than yards and completions. Brodie had a better touchdown to interception ratio as well. Another thing is Ryan a better prospect than Vince Young, Matt Leinart, or Jay Cutler. Hell no. He would have been taken 4th behind them. Heck he is not even in the same class as Jamarcus Russell or Brady Quinn.

I will bet anybody that Croyle will have a better career than Ryan.

[Ebolapox]

dennis dixon. I'd be a fan of him being a fifth or sixth round pick. he was the best QB in the ncaa for a long while last year.

[Mecca]

Ryan completed about as many passes as Croyle threw with no supporting cast.....people like Croyle cause he's a QB the Chiefs drafted nothing more. He is still the same thing he has always been a big armed guy that will never stay on the field...

I don't care if you love Croyle with everything in your being, if you really believe that man will ever play 16 games in a season or is remotely as good a prospect as Ryan you're so far out there.

Then you are valuing him for the same shit that people rip the Raiders for, his pure arm and nothing else. Because Ryan is better at EVERYTHING else. I'll take the guy who does everything without the huge arm, most of the best QB's right now don't have giant arms.

[ChiefsCountry]

I could give rat's ass about his big arm. Croyle has what it takes IMO to be a winning NFL quarterback, is he a hall of fame type. No. But a Trent Green/Matt Hasselback type career. Yes.

And unless you are Brett Favre or Peyton Manning, I doubt you wil see that many quarterbacks last season after season every game.

[Frankie]

Honestly, why the hell does the pro-Croyle crowd keeping saying this? !

The ONLY thing Croyle has on Ryan is pure arm strength, and he doesn't beat him by much. That's it. Period. Every single NFL analyst and expert would say Ryan beats Croyle in every other category. That is why Matt Ryan in a unanimous top five overall prospect and the #1 QB in this draft, while Brodie Croyle was a middle-round nobody in 2006 and no one holds him in high regard except the sheep on this board.

Seriously, some of you act like Brodie Croyle is your son or something; open your eyes, stop being biased, and realize that Croyle is a NFL backup at best.
"The sheep on this board" are not saying Croyle is a sure thing. We are just saying "WE DON'T YET KNOW WHAT WE HAVE IN CROYLE." And we have not seen him under any circumstance that's even near reasonable. We may or may not have a QBOTF. But there are positions we know we don't have anything. Seriously, I don't know why "the pigs on this board" can't comprehend that.

[suds79]

Matt Ryan is Brodie Croyle with a bigger frame. Those two are identical in about everything, its just the freaking year they are drafted that makes the difference.

That statement is just so ridiculous, it tells me you're just a Matt Ryan hater.

And that's fine. You don't have to be a fan of his but you can't make a statement like that and expect not to get flammed. Say you don't like the picks he threw or something. But don't say he's equal to Brodie Croyle except for size.

You're saying a guy who was drafted in the 3rd round is identical to a guy coming out in the draft who will go in the top 8 selections at worse.

Basically every scout, Coach & GM in the NFL disagrees with your assessment.

[Mosbonian]

Honestly, why the hell does the pro-Croyle crowd keeping saying this? !

The ONLY thing Croyle has on Ryan is pure arm strength, and he doesn't beat him by much. That's it. Period. Every single NFL analyst and expert would say Ryan beats Croyle in every other category. That is why Matt Ryan in a unanimous top five overall prospect and the #1 QB in this draft, while Brodie Croyle was a middle-round nobody in 2006 and no one holds him in high regard except the sheep on this board.

Seriously, some of you act like Brodie Croyle is your son or something; open your eyes, stop being biased, and realize that Croyle is a NFL backup at best.

The more I read about Ryan the more I am having concerns. Everyone seems to be drooling over him, but isn't that normally the "kiss of death".

And unlike the "experts", I think Brohm is being hyped too much lately. And I am pretty confident the team that takes Woodson with the thought of making him a QB will be wasting their pick.

mmaddog
*******

[Mecca]

I could give rat's ass about his big arm. Croyle has what it takes IMO to be a winning NFL quarterback, is he a hall of fame type. No. But a Trent Green/Matt Hasselback type career. Yes.

And unless you are Brett Favre or Peyton Manning, I doubt you wil see that many quarterbacks last season after season every game.

Brodie Croyle played what 6 games and got injured twice......that guy has an injury history and it is never going away, some guys have it.

If there is one position on the field that it is very much a key factor for a guy to be on the field every week it's that one. You can't have a starting QB that misses 6 games every year or more.

I don't see it with him, I see a guy people like cause he's a nice kid and they want him to succeed but I still see a guy who's body will never allow him to be a starting player, he's not durable at all.

To me his future is as a nice backup....he'll never be able to be relied upon to go out there every week and if he is it's foolish.

[Mecca]

That statement is just so ridiculous, it tells me you're just a Matt Ryan hater.

And that's fine. You don't have to be a fan of his but you can't make a statement like that and expect not to get flammed. Say you don't like the picks he threw or something. But don't say he's equal to Brodie Croyle except for size.

You're saying a guy who was drafted in the 3rd round is identical to a guy coming out in the draft who will go in the top 8 selections at worse.

Basically every scout, Coach & GM in the NFL disagrees with your assessment.


Like I said, saying that would get you laughed out of a room, this is the only place on the net where you can make a comment about Croyle and Ryan being comparable and not be shunned.

[ChiefsCountry]

Brodie Croyle played what 6 games and got injured twice......that guy has an injury history and it is never going away, some guys have it.

If there is one position on the field that it is very much a key factor for a guy to be on the field every week it's that one. You can't have a starting QB that misses 6 games every year or more.

I don't see it with him, I see a guy people like cause he's a nice kid and they want him to succeed but I still see a guy who's body will never allow him to be a starting player, he's not durable at all.

To me his future is as a nice backup....he'll never be able to be relied upon to go out there every week and if he is it's foolish.

I guess he will agree to disagree, wont be the first time and sure as hell wont be the last.

[Mecca]

Give me a team that wins with a injury prone QB that consistently misses games...

[Frankie]

people like Croyle cause he's a QB the Chiefs drafted nothing more.

You are so sure about this. Just like you are so sure Ryan is a can't miss QB. But what shoots your theory out of the water is that I for one was pretty high on Croyle during his pre-draft days. So were many others on this bb. Just because you hadn't heard of him doesn't mean the rest of us hadn't either. Mecca does not know Japanese. So, Japan does not exist.

[Frankie]

That statement is just so ridiculous, it tells me you're just a Matt Ryan hater.

And that's fine. You don't have to be a fan of his but you can't make a statement like that and expect not to get flammed. Say you don't like the picks he threw or something. But don't say he's equal to Brodie Croyle except for size.

You're saying a guy who was drafted in the 3rd round is identical to a guy coming out in the draft who will go in the top 8 selections at worse.

Basically every scout, Coach & GM in the NFL disagrees with your assessment.

Would Ryan have gone in the first round two years ago?

[eazyb81]

Would Ryan have gone in the first round two years ago?

Would he have been a 1st round pick as a sophomore? What is the relevance of that? He's a stud now.

[Frankie]

Would he have been a 1st round pick as a sophomore? What is the relevance of that? He's a stud now.

Let me rephrase my point:

Would this year's Matt Ryan have gone in the first round two years ago?

[Deberg_1990]

Give me a team that wins with a injury prone QB that consistently misses games...


haha....We've had this discussion before.

McNabb, the Eages.




But im with you, I like Ryan and i hope the Chiefs draft him. The NFL is a QB driven league.

[eazyb81]

Let me rephrase my point:

Would this year's Matt Ryan have gone in the first round two years ago?

Yes, he would have.

Here is a clip where Jaworski analyzes his game and compares him to Carson Palmer. After that, Kiper compares him to Eli Manning, and says he will have the exact same grade as Manning, Rivers, and Roethlisberger. Mike Mayock compares him to Roethlisberger

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/03/12/ron-jaworski-compares-boston-college-qb-matt-ryan-to-carson-palm/

If one person hypes him, maybe it's just an isolated man-crush. But when every legit NFL Draft analyst loves him as pro QB, it's a trend.

These guys make a living analyzing NFL prospects, and when they all unanimously agree that a guy is special, maybe the haters should suck it up and admit that maybe they don't know what they're talking about on this one.

[Mecca]

I think Ryan compares very well to Eli Manning actually......and there would have been 0 debate on if the Chiefs should take him or not.

I really don't like arguing with Frankie just because I think he'd trade down and draft 7 offensive lineman if he was a GM, that's how he reads to me with some of those ridiculous views he spouts.

[suds79]

Let me rephrase my point:

Would this year's Matt Ryan have gone in the first round two years ago?

Well the way it played out, there were only 3 teams that took a QB in that draft.

Young, Leinart & Cutler. I suspect coming off of their success in college, he wouldn't of gone ahead of Young or Leinart. But what does that prove?

But Cutler? Who knows. I'm not a scout.

I personally find it hard to believe a QB who's going to go in the top 8 picks this year wouldn't of been drafted at all in the 1st round comparison to that class.

[penguinz]

That's nice, he's also a midget in a spread option offense.....college stats mean jack and shit.

Also Ryan and Croyle are not remotely the same as prospects, for starters I think Matt Ryan can be breathed on and not get injured.All you can base these guys on right now is their college stats. Ryan is not going to be any more than an average at best QB.

[Mecca]

Well the way it played out, there were only 3 teams that took a QB in that draft.

Young, Leinart & Cutler. I suspect coming off of their success in college, he wouldn't of gone ahead of Young or Leinart.

But Cutler? Who knows. I'm not a scout.

I personally find it hard to believe a QB who's going to go in the top 8 picks this year wouldn't of been drafted at all in comparison to that class.

It's an argument used here...I don't think you'll see it anywhere else.

Don't mind Frankie he'd take Jeff Otah over Matt Ryan though to show you where he's at.

And if anyone comes in here and tells me that Young is/was a better prospect than Ryan I am going to laugh so hard.

[Mecca]

All you can base these guys on right now is their college stats. Ryan is not going to be any more than an average at best QB.

Coming from the guy who somehow thinks Dan Connor is a better cover back than Rivers it means alot to me...

And hey even if he's NFL average that'll be an upgrade from the guy we got now who'll spend alot of weeks on the sideline in his cast/boot/sling and whatever else you can think of.

[suds79]

All you can base these guys on right now is their college stats. Ryan is not going to be any more than an average at best QB.

That's incorrect. You can watch the tape. If all you can go off of right now is their college stats, we'd be talking about possibly taking Colt Brennan with our 1st pick instead. But we're not. Why? Because he doesn't project as well to be a pro quarterback.

[Mosbonian]

And if anyone comes in here and tells me that Young is/was a better prospect than Ryan I am going to laugh so hard.

I'll take that challenge.....

You see, you are assuming that Ryan won't bomb, or get hurt. What can you show anyone that you can point to as an absolute that Ryan will be someone's QBOTF? Right now it is conjecture and just that. Could he be and does he have the skill set...yes....but that doesn't always equate to an absolute. (There are many examples of can't-miss QB's that have not panned out) So, until Ryan makes a roster and starts a game you are making assumptions.

As for Vince Young, he has started games in the NFL...plus he has a few other credentials that at least give him the nod over Ryan.

But let's have this conversation in a couple of years...by then you can make that comparison.

mmaddog
*******

[Deberg_1990]

What can you show anyone that you can point to as an absolute that Ryan will be someone's QBOTF?

You could say the same thing about any QB before hes drafted. They all have questions marks. Nobody knows, its all a gamble.


All i know is, ill trust the experts before i trust anyone on Chiefsplanet. The experts say hes a top 5 pick.

[Mosbonian]

You could say the same thing about any QB before hes drafted. They all have questions marks. Nobody knows, its all a gamble.


All i know is, ill trust the experts before i trust anyone on Chiefsplanet. The experts say hes a top 5 pick.

I don't disagree...I am just trying to point out that, while Ryan is the best QB in the draft, he may not pan out either. And trying to say that he is better than Vince Young at this time is a bit premature.

mmaddog
*******

[Mecca]

I just wish people would make up their mind on what they want as a QB, I watch people rip on Russell who is the all the physical tools in the world you could want a guy to have prospect, and now I watch people rip on Ryan who is the all intangibles very good physical skills guy.....

Well um which kinda QB do you want because you aren't gonna get both that comes along once in what 40 years?

Also I seem to recall everyone wanting the Chiefs to pick Quinn as he was falling....now here we are the QB situation is no better, all that we know is Croyle confirmed he still gets injured and now no one wants a QB?

Ryan is a better prospect than Quinn in my book.

[Deberg_1990]

Well um which kinda QB do you want because you aren't gonna get both that comes along once in what 40 years?



As far as I can tell, he wont be worthy of being the "Mighty KC Chiefs QBoTF" unless hes the 2nd coming of John Elway, Troy Aikman, Joe Montana and Dan Marino all rolled into one. :)

[Brock]

I just wish people would make up their mind on what they want as a QB, I watch people rip on Russell who is the all the physical tools in the world you could want a guy to have prospect, and now I watch people rip on Ryan who is the all intangibles very good physical skills guy.....

Well um which kinda QB do you want because you aren't gonna get both that comes along once in what 40 years?

Also I seem to recall everyone wanting the Chiefs to pick Quinn as he was falling....now here we are the QB situation is no better, all that we know is Croyle confirmed he still gets injured and now no one wants a QB?

Ryan is a better prospect than Quinn in my book.


This is because opinions vary widely, especially on QBs. THere were plenty of people who were in love with Ryan Leaf over Manning, but you can't seem to find any of them around these days.

[Mecca]

This is because opinions vary widely, especially on QBs. THere were plenty of people who were in love with Ryan Leaf over Manning, but you can't seem to find any of them around these days.


We're to this point now of people looking for excuses to not take Matt Ryan, if anyone thinks other players are better or whatever fine just say that. But please don't try to bullshit me or anyone else into believing that Croyle and Ryan are remotely the same kind of prospects.

I still believe it's that fear, to be great you have to take risks, many people aren't willing to do that they'd rather get back to what we've always been than risk being awful for several years to win it all.

It's that safe mentality.

[Deberg_1990]

THere were plenty of people who were in love with Ryan Leaf over Manning, but you can't seem to find any of them around these days.

At the time, Manning was the "safer" pick because he was already NFL ready.

Leaf had more upside because he had the cannon for an arm. BTW, Leaf probably had the strongest arm ive ever seen in the NFL. I remember him throwing some tight spirals 50 yards downfield at Arrowhead in a rainstorm. Too bad it wasnt accurate. :)

[Deberg_1990]

I still believe it's that fear, to be great you have to take risks, many people aren't willing to do that they'd rather get back to what we've always been than risk being awful for several years to win it all.

It's that safe mentality.

Which is why im willing to bet good money Carl is praying every night Atlanta snags Ryan so he wont be forced to make the decision.

[Mecca]

At the time, Manning was the "safer" pick because he was already NFL ready.

Leaf had more upside because he had the cannon for an arm. BTW, Leaf probably had the strongest arm ive ever seen in the NFL. I remember him throwing some tight spirals 50 yards downfield at Arrowhead in a rainstorm. Too bad it wasnt accurate. :)

Yea sounds like that Matt Ryan guy doesn't it?

[Mecca]

Which is why im willing to bet good money Carl is praying every night Atlanta snags Ryan so he wont be forced to make the decision.

You gotta hate GM's like that and fans like that even more, what ever happened to having some god damn sack and making the decisions to win it all? Hell I'm fine with my team being awful as long as I think their decisions are geared toward winning it all and some of them didn't work out. I like that more than the "we're gonna be safe so we never bottom out yet we never really win either"

[penguinz]

Coming from the guy who somehow thinks Dan Connor is a better cover back than Rivers it means alot to me...



WTF?

[Mecca]

WTF?

Maybe it wasn't you and it was the other guy, sometimes you guys with the names that start with P's run together.

[Brock]

Maybe it wasn't you and it was the other guy, sometimes you guys with the names that start with P's run together.

ROFL

[Mecca]

Well they both say things I find odd all the time so it happens, whichever one is the huge penn state guy, you'd think Connor was the second coming.

[penguinz]

Well they both say things I find odd all the time so it happens, whichever one is the huge penn state guy, you'd think Connor was the second coming.
I am not a Penn St guy.

[Mecca]

I am not a Penn St guy.

Alright it's not you it's the other guy. Sorry about that.

[penguinz]

Alright it's not you it's the other guy. Sorry about that.I still don
t think Ryan is worth top 5 pick. ;)

[Halfcan]

If Dorsey is there-He will be the pick.

[Frankie]

Don't mind Frankie he'd take Jeff Otah over Matt Ryan though to show you where he's at.me that Young is/was a better prospect than Ryan I am going to laugh so hard.

You are right. I consider both of them mid-1st rounders. If we traded down to about 16 then if both are available there's a decision to be made. I'd still lean towards the needed LT over the un-needed QB.

[Frankie]

Also I seem to recall everyone wanting the Chiefs to pick Quinn as he was falling....

Ehh, I didn't. There you go again presenting assumptions as fact.

[Mecca]

If you'd really take Jeff Otah ahead of Matt Ryan seek help immediately.

[Frankie]

As far as I can tell, he wont be worthy of being the "Mighty KC Chiefs QBoTF" unless hes the 2nd coming of John Elway, Troy Aikman, Joe Montana and Dan Marino all rolled into one. :)

What's wrong with that? We are picking in the top 5. The kind of QBOTF Ryan represents we already have on the roster. Neither Croyle nor Ryan is a cinch. But we cannot afford to waste a top 5 pick on an INT-tossing maybe while we have gaping holes in other positions (especially O-line).

[Frankie]

Which is why im willing to bet good money Carl is praying every night Atlanta snags Ryan so he wont be forced to make the decision.

I actually think they are trying to sucker the Ravens into a trade.

[Mecca]

People who really believe Croyle and Ryan are the same thing is basically feeding themselves a line of bullshit.

If you don't want Matt Ryan fine, but for the love of God DO NOT make the argument that he is no better or not a better prospect than Croyle. It is an extremely asinine argument that you can only post here because if you did in a group of regular NFL fans or anyone with solid knowledge you'd be laughed out of the room for that kind of comment.

[Frankie]

People who really believe Croyle and Ryan are the same thing is basically feeding themselves a line of bullshit.

If you don't want Matt Ryan fine, but for the love of God DO NOT make the argument that he is no better or not a better prospect than Croyle. It is an extremely asinine argument that you can only post here because if you did in a group of regular NFL fans or anyone with solid knowledge you'd be laughed out of the room for that kind of comment.

Whatever.

[Dylan]

I think it would be a mistake for KC to select QB Matt Ryan with the their top pick. I can't see a GM paying a non QB top guaranteed money -- unless the organizaton believes Matt Ryan is Peyton Manning material. I think the Chiefs will invest their top pick in an offensive lineman. One player will not win a championship.

It will be interesting to see which way Parcells goes. I don't believe he is interested in any of the top picks. I believe he is interested in creating interest so he can trade out of the first pick. Do you believe Jake Long or Chris Long is worth $40 million? I don't know. Michigan has an excellent reputation for turning out offensive players -- maybe Jake is worth the money. Parcells historically picks up defensive and offensive players later on. He can always take a QB in the second round.

I believe Parcells wants to do more with the first pick. It would not surprise me to see him expire the clock and slide down to the player he wants and save some money if he can't strike a deal with another team. J/M/O

[PHOG]

What if nobody wants to pick? 1st,2nd,3rd,4th, Damn IT, Carl!!:banghead:, He picks the Keller kid from Purdue? A TE!?!? With the effective 1st overall pick!?!?


That is all.:)










Just preparing every/any one..

[Dylan]

Do you remember Quinn was sitting at the green-room table not being picked last year? I felt so sorry for him. I wanted to jump through the TV and give him a hug. aww.

[Chiefs=Champions]

This old argument again!!? Well im sorry to say to all the matt ryan fans out there, that when we pick there WILL be better players to choose from. Ellis, dorsey or long Should be there and you do NOT pass on players like that. If the Chiefs pass on one of those guys for a much lesser player such as Ryan, well thats whats wrong with this franchise.

[Chiefs=Champions]

Oh and ill go on record saying Henne will be the best of the bunch...

[CupidStunt]

Erik Ainge with either of our fifths.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Also I seem to recall everyone wanting the Chiefs to pick Quinn as he was falling....

In all fairness though, the guy was considered a Top 5-10 pick. Falling to 23 and picking him would have been tremendous value.

If we were picking in the 20's again and Ryan fell like Quinn did, I'd be all over it.

[Mosbonian]

I still haven't seen any of the Brohm and Woodson fans (except Mecca) tell me why they would be a good pick.

mmaddog
*******

[OnTheWarpath15]

I still haven't seen any of the Brohm and Woodson fans (except Mecca) tell me why they would be a good pick.

mmaddog
*******

Because Brohm threw for eleventy-billion yards against inferior competition, don't you watch CFB?

:D

[Coogs]

This is just my opinion. If Ryan is there at #5 you take him and don't look back. If he is not there, I am not even sure I would draft a QB this year. We already have a third round pick and a late round pick from the past two years drafts. No sense in throwing another one in the mix just yet.

Ryan at 5 if he is there... or none at all. Fix the rest of the spots as much as possible.

[Mosbonian]

Because Brohm threw for eleventy-billion yards against inferior competition, don't you watch CFB?

:D

I saw wayyyyyyy to much of both players this year.

:D

mmaddog
*******

[Otter]

Chad Henne in the 3rd or later brought in for competition and possibly taking over would be the only QB move I'd like to see this year.

Between him and Brodie one of them will likely wrap up the QB problem for the next couple years.

Just way too many needs to take one earlier imho.

[milkman]

Chad Henne in the 3rd or later brought in for competition and possibly taking over would be the only QB move I'd like to see this year.

Between him and Brodie one of them will likely wrap up the QB problem for the next couple years.

Just way too many needs to take one earlier imho.

The fact that this team has so many needs is one of the worst aguments for drafting to fill a need I can think of.

There aren't any positions on this team that can't be upgraded, including QB.

Draft the BPA, cause almost any player we look at in any round will certainly be a player that fills a position of need.

[Dylan]

With all due respect, I believe you don't just draft players, they have to fit into a team's pressing needs. Instead of risking that a certain player would be available later on - select him on the spot.

The Jets agreed to a contract extension with their safety this week -- a reported five years, over $30 MM, and that plays into their draft strategy.

Here's an interested article published by the Plain Dealer on QB Anderson and Brady Quinn.

(Tony Grossi, Plain Dealer beat reporter for the Cleveland Browns)

Plain Dealer Newspaper
Browns' QB status no controversy to opponents
by tgrossi@plaind.com April 02, 2008

Palm Beach, Fla. -- In Cleveland, the debate between Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn no doubt will burn hot for another year at least.
But coaches and personnel experts interviewed this week at NFL league meetings were unanimous in saying the Browns have done the right thing with their quarterbacks.

"Obviously, the bold move they made a year ago paid off for them," Cincinnati coach Marvin Lewis said.

"I'm talking about putting Anderson in and trading Charlie [Frye] and moving on. I think with the other 52 guys -- or 51, because I don't know that Brady's fine with it -- they know who their quarterback is. That's a huge step for a football team. You have to make that step to win."

Nobody here expressed the opinion that signing Anderson to a three-year deal after trading a No. 1 to select Quinn the year before automatically creates a quarterback controversy.

"The controversy would come if they didn't keep Derek," said Pat Kirwan, a former Jets assistant coach and front office employee now with NFL.com.

"Those receivers were going to go crazy. [Kellen] Winslow and Edwards, they're making the Pro Bowl right now with Derek Anderson delivering the mail. They don't want to go backwards. They know that guy gets the ball to them, and they have an open attack. Why would they take a risk to switch out?"

Not even Phil Savage can say, however, how long Anderson's reign as the starting quarterback will continue.

"Derek, he's a little bit more of an unknown," the Browns' general manager said. "He just kind of came from the hinterlands and all of a sudden ends up in Hawaii [in the Pro Bowl]. Now we'll see if he can build off that. It was worth the investment for us to see if he can go further with what he did last year."

And if he doesn't?

"That contract does not lock Derek down," Kirwan said. "Here's what Phil said to me a hundred times: 'I made sure that we are good for 2008. Then we'll figure it out.' And I don't think that means you trade Brady Quinn if he's great. If [Anderson's] great, you're going to play out the three-year deal. If he's not great, they move Derek and give the kid a chance.

"If he has three games at the beginning like the Cincinnati game [in December] ..."

So far, Quinn is the victim of bad timing.

He slipped down the draft board a year ago because Miami passed on him at No.¤9, and then came a long run of teams uninterested in drafting a quarterback first. He had a contract dispute in training camp, partly as a result of the Browns wanting to sort out the Frye vs. Anderson debacle. Then Anderson buried him on the bench with a totally unanticipated breakout year.

If Quinn were coming out of Notre Dame this year, experts here said, he would be considered with Boston College's Matt Ryan as the draft's top quarterback.

"That would be a tough debate," Minnesota coach Brad Childress said. "Apples and oranges. Either one could be the top one taken."

"I think they're real close," Kirwan said. "I think this year, unlike last year, more teams need a quarterback in the top¤10. I don't think either one would go to Atlanta at No.¤3. [B]The first interest might be Kansas City at 5. And then the one not taken would probably go to Baltimore at No.¤8."

This year's No.¤8 overall pick will exceed the $15.4 million in guaranteed money given the 2007 selection, Jamaal Anderson of Atlanta. Quinn got about $7.8 million in guarantees. So, factors totally out of Quinn's hands have been costly to him.

But Savage and coach Romeo Crennel insist that Quinn can and will handle the situation.

"His state of mind is that he's got good enough ability to be the starting quarterback for the Browns and that's what he's going to try to be," Crennel said. "He understands there's a competition and there's a guy ahead of him, but that doesn't diminish his confidence in himself or diminish his ability at all."

Gruden never met a quarterback he didn't like, but he seems particularly impressed with Quinn.

"It seems like a heckuva trade to me, to get him 22nd [last year]," he said. "Who knows what'll happen? Derek's a heckuva story. Whether it works in Brady's favor in Cleveland or not, they have two really good young quarterbacks and that's a lot more than some of us can say.

"That's an exciting team, man, to have those two guys. This is a quarterback-driven league."


(*speculation on Kansas City part) -- I hate speculation -- welcome to the world of sports writing.

http://blog.cleveland.com/sports/2008/04/browns_qb_status_no_controvers.html#more

[Frankie]

Chad Henne in the 3rd or later brought in for competition and possibly taking over would be the only QB move I'd like to see this year.

That's exactly my sentiment.