Senator Spector from the State of Comcast Calls for Investigation into the Patriots

[Amnorix]

Spector apparently wants a Mitchell/steroids like investigation into Cameragate. Said the NFL is obviously biased, etc.

Of course, the fact that he's owned by Comcast and that Comcast and the NFL have been feuding for years has nothing to do with all of this, I'm sure.

Links/summaries to come in subsequent posts.

[Amnorix]

WASHINGTON -- Pennsylvania Senator Arlen Specter called today for an independent investigation into the Patriots' illegal taping practices, citing what he called an obvious conflict between the interest of the NFL and the public interest.

"After a lot of consideration it's my judgment that there ought to be an impartial investigation, an outside investigation, like the [steroids] investigation that baseball had with former [Maine] Senator George Mitchell," said Specter at a Capitol Hill news conference.

Specter, who is the ranking Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee, stopped short of saying the government would conduct an investigation if the NFL didn't do so, but didn't rule out Congressional hearings to look into the matter, if action wasn't taken.

Specter met with former Patriots video assistant Matt Walsh for three hours yesterday in his Hart Senate Office Building office. He said that Walsh told him that a former offensive player for the Patriots told Walsh a few days before a Sept. 11, 2000 game against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers that the offensive player was called into a meeting with head coach Bill Belichick, then offensive coordinator Charlie Weis and Belichick confidant Ernie Adams. During the meeting it was explained to the player how the signal tapes would be used.

According to Specter's recount of what Walsh detailed to him, the offensive player, who was on the sidelines for the game, would memorize the signals then watch for the Tampa Bay defensive calls during the game. He would then pass the call along to Weis, who would give instructions to the quarterback on the field.

Specter's statement said that the offensive player told Walsh that it helped the Patriots anticipate 75 percent of the defensive plays being called.

The senator also said that Walsh, who worked for the Patriots from 1997 to 2003, told him that as a season-ticket holder he witnessed Steve Scarnecchia, the son of Patriots offensive line coach Dante Scarnecchia and currently the New York Jets video director, taping games during the 2002, 2003 and 2004 seasons.

The games that Specter cited, according to his meeting with Walsh, were Sept. 9, 2002 against the Pittsburgh Steelers, Nov. 16, 2003, against the Dallas Cowboys and Oct. 31, 2004 against the Steelers, a 34-20 New England loss that ended their record 21-game winning streak.

According to Specter, Walsh didn't tell NFL commissioner Roger Goodell about witnessing those games because he was not asked.

Specter said he was also troubled by the fact that Walsh told him that Dan Goldberg, whom Walsh identified as a Patriots attorney, was present at his NFL interview and allowed to ask questions. Specter, a former Philadelphia district attorney, said such a practice "strains credulity."

"What is necessary is an objective investigation," said Specter. "This has not been objective."

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/2008/05/specter_calls_f.html

[Amnorix]

Philadephia Weekly: (i.e. NOT a Boston paper):

http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/articles/16579

It’s never a good sign for your company when a 75-year-old woman becomes so enraged with customer service that she enters the local office with a hammer and starts smashing things. And when people so identify with her pluck they nickname her “the Hammer Lady.”

It’s also hardly ever a good sign when people start websites wishing for your company to “die.” And it’s never a good sign when people start to whisper that your company is pushing a dignified cancer-surviving 78-year-old U.S. senator to butt heads with the most popular sports institution in the history of time, the National Football League. Welcome to the increasing scrutiny accompanying Comcast cable’s relationship with Arlen Specter in his investigation of the NFL, known as Spygate.
Spygate is the sports scandal centered on the New England Patriots’ surreptitious videotaping of the New York Jets during their season-opening game, and the subsequent destruction of the tapes by commissioner Roger Goodell. In response to Goodell’s gaffe, Specter has been raising hell on the Hill.

Goodell denied there was anything unusual in destroying videotapes, but that didn’t stop Specter from calling Goodell a liar, saying, “The commissioner’s explanation as to why he destroyed the tapes does not ring true.”

Specter has been lavished with praise, as a man taking on the fraud of a multibillion-dollar business. Take this bit of praise in the Allentown Morning Call: “The crushing defeat that ruined the near-perfect season [of the Pats] may be the least of their worries … especially if Arlen Specter, Pennsylvania’s senior U.S. senator and a football fan, has anything to say about it.”

Goodell is a juicy target. But despite Goodell’s executive idiocy, his bosses in the owner’s box have supported him. Giants co-owner John Mara says of Specter, “I’d like to think that maybe there are other, more important things to worry about in the world these days.”



<HR align=center width="50%" SIZE=1>

It’s not just owners who are fine with Goodell’s decision. Football fans don’t seem particularly enraged. If the most popular player in the game can go to prison for dog fighting the same year as the most-watched Super Bowl in history, videotaping seems like small potatoes.

Specter justified this extraordinary—and solitary—level of attention in a press conference by saying, “I think the Congress has a legitimate interest. It really all melds together with their other practices, which are not really too concerned about the fan and the consumers. We have a right to have honest football games that are played according to the rules.”

Yet the closer one looks at Specter, the more one would be excused for seeing Comcast’s Philadelphia fingertips all over these actions.

For several years Specter has challenged the popular NFL Network and its exclusive relationship with DirecTV. Comcast has been going 15 rounds with the NFL over whether they can charge their customers for the NFL Network, unlike DirecTV. Here’s where haters start to snipe that the senator from Comcast comes into action.
Comcast is the No. 2 source of campaign funds for the senator, with their execs and employees giving $153,600 in contributions going back to 1989. The No. 1 contributor since ’89 is Blank Rome LLC, a lobbying firm that has dumped $358,483 into Specter’s coffers. Comcast is a chief client of Blank Rome.

Goodell has pulled no punches on Comcast, saying, “They’re just finding another way which they can charge our consumers more money. We think it should be available on a broader basis.” Asked if Specter’s vendetta is related to Comcast, Goodell only says, “I’m not addressing that point.”

Goodell hasn’t addressed it, but others are starting to.

“If you simply took Specter at face value, and assumed his passion for grilling the NFL in his official Senate capacity is the passion of a jilted fan, that alone would be an outrageous abuse of his authority,” writes the Daily News’ Will Bunch. “But the truth is much worse, because Specter’s interest in this issue dovetails far too closely with those of his two largest contributors, whose employees have given his campaign more than half a million dollars to keep him in office. I believe if there’s any Senate hearing involving the NFL and Arlen Specter, it ought to be the Senate Ethics Committee, looking at a potential link to these donors.”

Specter’s office disputes this assertion. Spokesperson Kate Kelly emails, “Comcast has nothing to do with the senator’s interest in the matter. The senator’s had a longstanding interest in the NFL’s antitrust exemption dating as far as back to 1983, when he introduced legislation on the matter—way before Comcast was even in existence.” (Actually, Comcast was founded in Tupelo, Miss., in 1963)
Specter himself told the Inquirer’s David Aldridge, “Well, what I’ve got to do is figure out what the percentage is of the contributions is out of the $23 million I raised. It’s a fraction of 1 percent and got nothing to do with what I’m doing here. I think I’ve got a pretty strong record for integrity and not letting campaign contributions interfere with my public duty.”

We still have a rather stubborn set of facts. Normally the allure of sports scandal is like crack cocaine to Congress, addicted as they are to ESPN and C-SPAN simulcasts. The most dangerous place in D.C. is between a politician and a camera. And yet in the case of Spygate, Specter stands alone. Is he a prophet of the next great sports scandal or a mule for Comcast, with balloons of bandwidth in his belly?

The answer is less important than the question: If there is a congressional battle to be waged on Goodell and co., Specter seems like a poor choice to lead the charge.

[Adept Havelock]

Perhaps the Distinguished Gentleman from Comcast can cook up a "magic videotape" theory. :shrug:

[Otter]

Arlen Spector is one of the biggest sellouts to ever defile this state. He's the definition of "corporate owned" and special interest driven.

The day he's gone the nation will be a better place.

[beavis]

I really hope someday Senators will have something more important to do than stir shit in professional sports.

[FAX]

Perhaps the Distinguished Gentleman from Comcast can cook up a "magic videotape" theory. :shrug:

LMAO

FAX

[sedated]

I call for an investigation into the Senate's to-do list

[StcChief]

and they can't understand their 20% approval rating, must be the lobbiest/Special Interest voting for them.

[Bowser]

I call for an investigation into the Senate's to-do list

Seconded.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Awesome. Please spend some more of our money on shit that doesn't matter. I mean, we can't allow our moral fabric as a nation to be tarnished by the lack of integrity in a sporting event.

[BigChiefFan]

Yep, nobody every uses government power for personal gain.

[PunkinDrublic]

Ah this must be that small government philosophy that republicans are always preaching to us about.

[Garcia Bronco]

On the one hand it's a complete waste of time, energy, and resources. On the other, it's investigating massive fraud and should be pursued because it's illegal.

[PunkinDrublic]

On the one hand it's a complete waste of time, energy, and resources. On the other, it's investigating massive fraud and should be pursued because it's illegal.

I knew you'd come around on the Donks crisco jerseys and illegal blocking techniques.:thumb:

[Garcia Bronco]

I knew you'd come around on the Donks crisco jerseys and illegal blocking techniques.:thumb:

Our ZBS, which the Chiefs use, is on point and legal. On the other, take heart in the fact that you were going to lose anyway because MS started and inferior QB. :P

[BigRock]

Of course, the fact that he's owned by Comcast and that Comcast and the NFL have been feuding for years has nothing to do with all of this, I'm sure.

But which is the bigger conflict of interest: Spector getting money from Comcast, or Goodell's paycheck coming from the very thing he'd be damaging if he made a bigger deal about this? Not just in regard to the Pats, but about cheating that goes on league-wide.

They all have their reasons. However silly he may be, let's not pretend Spector is the only one who may have ulterior motives.

[Skip Towne]

Spector is a sucker of the penis.

[BIG_DADDY]

Ridiculous. In other ridiculous the gubment's too big news they are going after Barry Bonds AGAIN.

[RNR]

Well now that the money making war time red white and blue Patriots are tarnished I guess the WWF...errr...NFL will have to find a new pet. I see some strange calls coming the Cowboys way. Time to break out the America's team slogan again :rolleyes:

[OnTheWarpath15]

Ridiculous. In other ridiculous the gubment's too big news they are going after Barry Bonds AGAIN.

Yeah, they tend to do that when you lie to a grand jury and obstruct a federal investigation.

:rolleyes:

[Mr. Flopnuts]

But which is the bigger conflict of interest: Spector getting money from Comcast, or Goodell's paycheck coming from the very thing he'd be damaging if he made a bigger deal about this? Not just in regard to the Pats, but about cheating that goes on league-wide.

They all have their reasons. However silly he may be, let's not pretend Spector is the only one who may have ulterior motives.

I'm not. He has more power over what's done with my money than Roger Goodell does. I'm sick of my money going to investigate the legitimacy of television entertainment.

[Adept Havelock]

I'm not. He has more power over what's done with my money than Roger Goodell does. I'm sick of my money going to investigate the legitimacy of television entertainment.

Yep.

<embed width="448" height="365" src="http://www.spike.com/efp" quality="high" bgcolor="000000" name="efp" align="middle" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" flashvars="flvbaseclip=2683695&" allowfullscreen="true"> </embed> <a href="http://www.spike.com/video/fcc-song/2683695">FCC Song</a>

[Dylan]

Amnorix:

Fans should welcome every effort to expose cheating in American sports. What may look like a story based on information from a single person -- Senator Arlen Specter, actually represents months of work piecing together separate facts from lots of people. The American system rests on a quest for truth. The fact is that journalists become a watchdog in the system in maintaining public trust -- and American politicians, don't mess around when it comes to rooting out corruption in sports.

My guess is still the same -- Goodell will be gone and Capers will lead the Patriots this season.

The calm before the storm.

Please wake up Goodell and the Patriots for that award winning unbelievable story the foreign press corp has reported to their various populations. Simply a must read around the world.

Here's a quick one. I gotta go to bed.
The Guardian: UK
US politicians on warpath against sports cheats
The US Senate is seeking to investigate claims that the New England Patriots, the most dominant team in American Football over the last decade, regularly spied on opponents, thereby scuppering the NFL's hopes of shutting down a very murky affair and raising the prospect of another major American sport being revealed as a cheat's paradise, as has happened with baseball.



If you would like to add a couple of paragraphs to the articles above, may I suggest you read The New York Times article.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/15/sports/football/15nfl.html?ref=football

Not a good omen when Goodell and Belichick is front page news. At least the story is below the fold. When the story creeps up higher... you'll know the end is near :shake:

[Valiant]

Spector apparently wants a Mitchell/steroids like investigation into Cameragate. Said the NFL is obviously biased, etc.

Of course, the fact that he's owned by Comcast and that Comcast and the NFL have been feuding for years has nothing to do with all of this, I'm sure.

Links/summaries to come in subsequent posts.

Or the fact that maybe the Pats or guilty and the NFL just wants to cover it up.. The Pats are their darling, and if they get caught it sheds a very horrible light on the league.. I don;t blame goodell for trying to cover it up and just smack the hands of the Pats with the small fines for cheating and just losing 1 draft pick..

[Valiant]

Goodell has pulled no punches on Comcast, saying, “They’re just finding another way which they can charge our consumers more money. We think it should be available on a broader basis.” Asked if Specter’s vendetta is related to Comcast, Goodell only says, “I’m not addressing that point.”



Goodell wants to have games more available, but will not lift the now useless blackout rule or not charge out the ass for ticket and network.. Seems to me the NFL does not want to play fairly..

[Amnorix]

On the one hand it's a complete waste of time, energy, and resources. On the other, it's investigating massive fraud and should be pursued because it's illegal.

Illegal? What law was broken? Not NFL rules -- LAW, not rule.

Answer: none.

[Amnorix]

Or the fact that maybe the Pats or guilty and the NFL just wants to cover it up.. The Pats are their darling, and if they get caught it sheds a very horrible light on the league.. I don;t blame goodell for trying to cover it up and just smack the hands of the Pats with the small fines for cheating and just losing 1 draft pick..

They are guilty. Everyone has agreed what they have done, they have agreed they were wrong, and they have been punished.

Taht got them the BIGGEST penalty against any team in NFL history.

So what exactly is being covered up? And what more should anyone reasonably expect to happen here?

[Amnorix]

Not a good omen when Goodell and Belichick is front page news. At least the story is below the fold. When the story creeps up higher... you'll know the end is near :shake:


I wouldn't hold your breath if I were you.

[cadmonkey]

One of the guys on NFL Blitz, on Sirius, is a huge Steelers fan and he was saying today that he desprately wants to interview Specter just to tell him that he is embarassing everyone from Pennsylvainia and to just let it go already. And he also would really like to know what vendeta he has is bigger, the one against the Patriots because he is an Eagles fan or the one against the NFL in general because he is part of Comcast.

[Red Dawg]

I have no sympathy for the Pats. If they would have played nice and not cheated then there would be none of this.

[Amnorix]

I have no sympathy for the Pats. If they would have played nice and not cheated then there would be none of this.


Don't need or want sympathy. Only fairness in the punishment system. All perspective has been lost. Yes, they brought it all on themselves, but it's gotten silly. Walsh kept this alive for months when he had absolutely no new information whatsoever, and now Spector is off on some kind of vigilante hunt against the NFL, using the Patriots as his foil. It's become absurd.

[Garcia Bronco]

Illegal? What law was broken? Not NFL rules -- LAW, not rule.

Answer: none.

Fraud is illegal in most states. Including New York where they Patriots were caught. It's a crime. Sorry.

[Garcia Bronco]

I have no sympathy for the Pats. If they would have played nice and not cheated then there would be none of this.


That's exactly it though. They have no one to blame but themselves. I feel sorry for their fans. The fans didn't cheat. They got cheated just like everybody else.

[Garcia Bronco]

Don't need or want sympathy. Only fairness in the punishment system. All perspective has been lost. Yes, they brought it all on themselves, but it's gotten silly. Walsh kept this alive for months when he had absolutely no new information whatsoever, and now Spector is off on some kind of vigilante hunt against the NFL, using the Patriots as his foil. It's become absurd.

I believe Walsh had tapes from 03. The only thing reported up to this point was some games in late 06 and 07. So I don't understand what you mean by no new information.

[Amnorix]

Fraud is illegal in most states. Including New York where they Patriots were caught. It's a crime. Sorry.

Fraud. That's rich. So according to you every fan who paid to see a Patriots game over the last 8 years could sue them, and people should be going to jail.

The humor value is high, if not the logic.

[Amnorix]

I believe Walsh had tapes from 03. The only thing reported up to this point was some games in late 06 and 07. So I don't understand what you mean by no new information.

This is exactly what I mean by trying to set everyone straight on facts. Everyone *seems* to think they know all the facts, but everyone seems to screw up alot of the important ones.

The Commissioner confirmed back in February that the Pats had admitted taping since at least the start of the Belichick era.

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2008/02/14/patriots_taping_since_2000/

By Christopher L. Gasper

Globe Staff / February 14, 2008

Senator Arlen Specter finally met with NFL commissioner Roger Goodell yesterday to discuss the league's handling of its investigation into "Spygate," and according to Specter, he was told the Patriots' taping of opposing teams' signals had been going on since 2000, when Bill Belichick took over as coach.

"There was confirmation that there has been taping since 2000, when Coach Belichick took over," said Specter, who met with Goodell in his office in Washington for 1 hour 40 minutes."

[boogblaster]

Frickin' Cheatin' Patties ....

[Frazod]

Fraud. That's rich. So according to you every fan who paid to see a Patriots game over the last 8 years could sue them, and people should be going to jail.

The humor value is high, if not the logic.

So is the irony of a Bronco fan complaining about ANY OTHER SPORTS ORGANIZATION, ANYWHERE, cheating.

[Garcia Bronco]

Fraud. That's rich. So according to you every fan who paid to see a Patriots game over the last 8 years could sue them, and people should be going to jail.

.

It's called breaking the law. Whether people could sue or not is another matter. It's obvious though by the NFL's own actions that the Patriots committed fraud on the public for gain financially. Plus the people who bet on the games were frauded as well. Sorry buddy. They broke a written rule buddy. I wouldn't put anyone in jail myself, but Kraft, BB, and the GM would get 5 years community service if I had my way.

[Garcia Bronco]

This is exactly what I mean by trying to set everyone straight on facts. Everyone *seems* to think they know all the facts, but everyone seems to screw up alot of the important ones.

The Commissioner confirmed back in February that the Pats had admitted taping since at least the start of the Belichick era.

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2008/02/14/patriots_taping_since_2000/

That really doesn't help your case that they did nothing wrong. BB should be removed fromthe game.

[Garcia Bronco]

So is the irony of a Bronco fan complaining about ANY OTHER SPORTS ORGANIZATION, ANYWHERE, cheating.


LOL.

[Frazod]

LOL.

Do you really want to know the difference between the Patriots' vile despicable cheating and Denver's vile, despicable cheating? The Patriots dared to cheat a NEW YORK team. If you scumbags had lubed up against New York, or Dallas, or even the Patriots themselves, you'd have been called on it.

But luckily for you, it was just us.

[ohiochiefs@browns]

Spector apparently wants a Mitchell/steroids like investigation into Cameragate. Said the NFL is obviously biased, etc.

Of course, the fact that he's owned by Comcast and that Comcast and the NFL have been feuding for years has nothing to do with all of this, I'm sure.

Links/summaries to come in subsequent posts.i say spector and belliceck have a cage match winner stays loser has to go to Canada.

[RNR]

Do you really want to know the difference between the Patriots' vile despicable cheating and Denver's vile, despicable cheating? The Patriots dared to cheat a NEW YORK team. If you scumbags had lubed up against New York, or Dallas, or even the Patriots themselves, you'd have been called on it.

But luckily for you, it was just us.

Dont kid yourself the Chiefs were far from the only team that played against the greased jerseys!

[Amnorix]

That really doesn't help your case that they did nothing wrong. BB should be removed fromthe game.


ROFL Way to spin, way to spin.

You were wrong, you know it, and now you try to dial it up further.

I repeat: there is NOTHING NEW that's been revealed in the last 6 months that the NFL hasn't ALREADY punished the Patriots for. Much as you may want to, there is absolutely no justice in just reopening everything to just keep going for the sake of going.

That's Ken Starr thinking. Congratulations.

[ohiochiefs@browns]

It's called breaking the law. Whether people could sue or not is another matter. It's obvious though by the NFL's own actions that the Patriots committed fraud on the public for gain financially. Plus the people who bet on the games were frauded as well. Sorry buddy. They broke a written rule buddy. I wouldn't put anyone in jail myself, but Kraft, BB, and the GM would get 5 years community service if I had my way.you need a good ass kicking for being stupid .to bad being stupid isn't a crime cause i would sue you.

[ohiochiefs@browns]

you need a good ass kicking for being stupid .to bad being stupid isn't a crime cause i would sue you.is this a bannable offense i just made .i made a similar statment on the charger board and they banned me ,there kind of sensitive over there

[Garcia Bronco]

ROFL Way to spin, way to spin.

You were wrong, you know it, and now you try to dial it up further.

I repeat: there is NOTHING NEW that's been revealed in the last 6 months that the NFL hasn't ALREADY punished the Patriots for.

I was asking you moron. Not making bold claims of high treason.

[Garcia Bronco]

you need a good ass kicking for being stupid .to bad being stupid isn't a crime cause i would sue you.

Don't threaten me with physical violence.

[Amnorix]

is this a bannable offense i just made .i made a similar statment on the charger board and they banned me ,there kind of sensitive over there

ROFL. Not even close. Think Elephants when you're tlaking about how thick skinned you have to be around here to get banned. You have to try to get banned, really. The level of a-hole'ishness it takes is very, very high.

That is not to encourage you, of course... :D

Edit to note that GB is right -- you probably shouldn't make a habit of threatening physical violence, however. Not a good idea.

[Garcia Bronco]

is this a bannable offense i just made .i made a similar statment on the charger board and they banned me ,there kind of sensitive over there

Yes it is under the FAQ:

<TABLE class=tborder cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=tcat>Threats</TD></TR><TR><TD class=alt1>Physically threatening other members, or posting private information such as home address or phone numbers.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Amnorix]

I believe Walsh had tapes from 03. The only thing reported up to this point was some games in late 06 and 07. So I don't understand what you mean by no new information.


This was your original post. You weren't asking anything (note the lack of a question mark). Your second sentence is stated as fact, and is totally wrong, as my previous post proved. Sorry, try again.

[Amnorix]

Yes it is under the FAQ:

<TABLE class=tborder cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=tcat>Threats</TD></TR><TR><TD class=alt1>Physically threatening other members, or posting private information such as home address or phone numbers.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


Good find. I hadn't really focused on the physical threat. That is inappropriate, I do agree.

[Garcia Bronco]

This was your original post. You weren't asking anything (note the lack of a question mark). Your second sentence is stated as fact, and is totally wrong, as my previous post proved. Sorry, try again.


"I believe Walsh had tapes from 03. The only thing reported up to this point was some games in late 06 and 07. So I don't understand what you mean by no new information."

[Garcia Bronco]

Good find. I hadn't really focused on the physical threat. That is inappropriate, I do agree.

My thing is: Why would someone think it's a good idea to threaten people anyway? Of course one has to have a thick skin, but still.

[Amnorix]

My thing is: Why would someone think it's a good idea to threaten people anyway? Of course one has to have a thick skin, but still.


Yes, physical threats over an internet BB are fairly silly.

[Amnorix]

"I believe Walsh had tapes from 03. The only thing reported up to this point was some games in late 06 and 07. So I don't understand what you mean by no new information."

When Walsh had tapes from makes no difference, as they had already admitted taping from '00.

The next sentence (which I bolded) is where you were wrong.

[Adept Havelock]

Does that qualify as a physical threat? All I see is ohiochiefs@browns suggesting that is something GB needs, not an offer to perform the task himself.

I've seen many people suggest GOATSE needs to get laid, but I don't assume anyone saying that is offering to take care of that vile deed. :p

That said, it's a fuzzy line it's better to stay completely away from, IMO.

[Chiefnj2]

If you are a Pats fan you should just shut up. Your head coach cheated and he knew he was cheating. As Herm would say, deal with it.

IIRC, the senate has some oversight over the NFL relating to the anti-trust exemption the NFL has. Goodell screwed the pooch by glossing over the violation and destroying evidence. Had Goodell been completely open and honest from the start of the investigation there would be nothing for the senate to investigate.

[Garcia Bronco]

When Walsh had tapes from makes no difference, as they had already admitted taping from '00.

The next sentence (which I bolded) is where you were wrong.


That just makes all of this worse in the end result regardless of what Walsh has provided and committed. He should be fined too, because he's just as dirty. Nor have I ever seen a report that says BB has been doing this since 00. I think most people don't know that.

[Garcia Bronco]

If you are a Pats fan you should just shut up. Your head coach cheated and he knew he was cheating. As Herm would say, deal with it.

IIRC, the senate has some oversight over the NFL relating to the anti-trust exemption the NFL has. Goodell screwed the pooch by glossing over the violation and destroying evidence. Had Goodell been completely open and honest from the start of the investigation there would be nothing for the senate to investigate.


I really don't see how the NFL has a monopoly to require an anti-trust exemption.

[Garcia Bronco]

Does that qualify as a physical threat? All I see is ohiochiefs@browns suggesting that is something GB needs, not an offer to perform the task himself.




I think if you try harder you could split those hairs twice more. :P

[Adept Havelock]

I think if you try harder you could split those hairs twice more. :P

Probably, but once was sufficient to entertain me. :)

[MIAdragon]

Yes it is under the FAQ:

<TABLE class=tborder cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=tcat>Threats</TD></TR><TR><TD class=alt1>Physically threatening other members, or posting private information such as home address or phone numbers.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

pussy

[Amnorix]

That just makes all of this worse in the end result regardless of what Walsh has provided and committed. He should be fined too, because he's just as dirty. Nor have I ever seen a report that says BB has been doing this since 00. I think most people don't know that.


Right, which is why I'm pounding this drum. Trying to make sure everyone understands the facts. The Pats admitted and were previously punished for taping since 2000.

In fact, there's a pretty reasonable argumetn for saying that it was NOT AT ALL clear that it was a violation of NFL rules until they sent their clarifying memo to all NFL teams prior to the, err, 2006 season I think it was.

It was the Pats failure to stop taping at that point that really got them in trouble.

[Garcia Bronco]

It was the Pats failure to stop taping at that point that really got them in trouble.


For me that's the biggest issue. They got notified an kept doing it. I am not in favor of of removing titles or anything like that.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

If you are a Pats fan you should just shut up. Your head coach cheated and he knew he was cheating. As Herm would say, deal with it.

IIRC, the senate has some oversight over the NFL relating to the anti-trust exemption the NFL has. Goodell screwed the pooch by glossing over the violation and destroying evidence. Had Goodell been completely open and honest from the start of the investigation there would be nothing for the senate to investigate.

I agree. Don't complain when people say that you didn't earn those Super Bowls. If your team hadn't cheated in the first place, it would never be questioned.

[irishjayhawk]

I'm all about reexamining the punishment or at least coming clean on what was seen by the NFL and the rationale for their punishments.

However, I'm more about not getting the government in something that doesn't belong. Spector can go run into a knife and do us all a favor.

[irishjayhawk]

If you are a Pats fan you should just shut up. Your head coach cheated and he knew he was cheating. As Herm would say, deal with it.

IIRC, the senate has some oversight over the NFL relating to the anti-trust exemption the NFL has. Goodell screwed the pooch by glossing over the violation and destroying evidence. Had Goodell been completely open and honest from the start of the investigation there would be nothing for the senate to investigate.

It amazes me that to follow up the best commissioner of in all of sports history with a douche like Goodell. The guy should be canned based on some of his ideas alone.

[Amnorix]

For me that's the biggest issue. They got notified an kept doing it. I am not in favor of of removing titles or anything like that.

Ok, no argumetn. That's where what the Patriots and BB did went from "borderline, probably several other teams are doing this" to "obviously wrong and totally f'ing stupid."

And then they were caught and punished. What else is required at this point?

I honestly don't know what else there is to even look at.

[Chiefnj2]

Ok, no argumetn. That's where what the Patriots and BB did went from "borderline, probably several other teams are doing this" to "obviously wrong and totally f'ing stupid."

And then they were caught and punished. What else is required at this point?

I honestly don't know what else there is to even look at.

It isn't necessarily a matter of looking into the Pats, but sending a message to the NFL that when they have an in-house mess they better not try to cover it up and destroy evidence, etc.

Gambling and its associated revenue is huge and you don't want to create a spector of cheating. A third of the television screen is constantly filled with scrolling stats. Why? Because people are gambling on fantasy football.

[Amnorix]

It isn't necessarily a matter of looking into the Pats, but sending a message to the NFL that when they have an in-house mess they better not try to cover it up and destroy evidence, etc.

Gambling and its associated revenue is huge and you don't want to create a spector of cheating. A third of the television screen is constantly filled with scrolling stats. Why? Because people are gambling on fantasy football.


ROFL at the thought that we need to protect the integrity of football so the gamblers aren't cheated. That's a good one. I'd pay a few bucks to have Spector or any other politician say that.

The NFL's blind eye towards gambling, while establishing policies that are SPECIFICALLY to aid gamblers (the injury list) is comical. the networks are obviously part of it too, with fantasy football stat lines and constantly scrolling the scores of other games around the NFL.

But it was obviously "just" an internal issue with the Patriots, which was investigated, and then the NFL handed down punishment. The heaviest punishment in NFL history, bytheway. This isn't steroids or some other football-wide threatening problem. Nor did it involving breaking any federal or state laws.

[Chiefnj2]

ROFL at the thought that we need to protect the integrity of football so the gamblers aren't cheated. That's a good one. I'd pay a few bucks to have Spector or any other politician say that.

The NFL's blind eye towards gambling, while establishing policies that are SPECIFICALLY to aid gamblers (the injury list) is comical. the networks are obviously part of it too, with fantasy football stat lines and constantly scrolling the scores of other games around the NFL.

But it was obviously "just" an internal issue with the Patriots, which was investigated, and then the NFL handed down punishment. The heaviest punishment in NFL history, bytheway. This isn't steroids or some other football-wide threatening problem. Nor did it involving breaking any federal or state laws.

How much money is made by nfl.com and espn and other corporations that host webpages with advertisements running along them that post and keep track of your "fantasy football" teams?

[Dylan]

They are guilty. Everyone has agreed what they have done, they have agreed they were wrong, and they have been punished.

Taht got them the BIGGEST penalty against any team in NFL history.

So what exactly is being covered up? And what more should anyone reasonably expect to happen here?

I guarantee you'd be singing a different tune if it was the Colts cheating, instead of the Patriots.

If you have time, can you dig a little deeper into the NFL Network vs. Comcast, TimeWarner, Charter Communications, Cablevision Systems? The NFL Network’s problem last year was that controversy focused on free Thursday night games -- The NFL should have at least pushed the fact that it has it own programming. But that was a sticky situation for them to be raising.

If the NFL wants to go into the cable TV industry and start charging the viewers for games that were once free -- they should not use the exemption given to them by the government. Only then will the NFL be left alone to sweep cheating under their huge rug.

The NFL is a niche network right now -- but that's not what their planning for the future.

If you would like to accept the challange, please look elsewhere other than sports sites for your information.

[Dylan]

Well now that the money making war time red white and blue Patriots are tarnished I guess the WWF...errr...NFL will have to find a new pet. I see some strange calls coming the Cowboys way. Time to break out the America's team slogan again :rolleyes:

They're too busy claiming they'll be next year's Super Bowl winners.

[RNR]

I guarantee you'd be singing a different tune if it was the Colts cheating, instead of the Patriots.

Fact!

[Dylan]

Fact!

Thanks... LMAO

[RNR]

They're too busy claiming they will win next year's Super Bowl.

Big brother must turn a back to them. No more freebe flags at just the right time. Sorry Pats the NFL will have to find a new cash cow. Heck with the storm brewing the NFL had to step back otherwise you can bet your ass they would have handed them the perfect season. On their own with no cheating or flag friendly refs they shit the bed LMAO

[Amnorix]

Big brother must turn a back to them. No more freebe flags at just the right time. Sorry Pats the NFL will have to find a new cash cow. Heck with the storm brewing the NFL had to step back otherwise you can bet your ass they would have handed them the perfect season. On their own with no cheating or flag friendly refs they shit the bed LMAO


Believe me, the freebie flags have been few and far between, IMHO. Nothing anywhere near the Pats-Colts AFCC game a few years ago.

[RNR]

Believe me, the freebie flags have been few and far between, IMHO. Nothing anywhere near the Pats-Colts AFCC game a few years ago.
Well we will have to agree to disagree, dogass Patriots aside you seem like good people :thumb:

[Garcia Bronco]

Ok, no argumetn. That's where what the Patriots and BB did went from "borderline, probably several other teams are doing this" to "obviously wrong and totally f'ing stupid."

And then they were caught and punished. What else is required at this point?

I honestly don't know what else there is to even look at.

Goodell needs to get a spanking in public, and I would personally like to see BB tossed from the NFL. I have always dislike that guy. This goes back to Cleveland.

[Dylan]

Sports of The Times

Politicians Challenge Integrity of N.F.L.

By WILLIAM C. RHODEN
Published: May 18, 2008

We often expect little from politicians; our standards for athletes, whether we admit it or not, are higher.

Politics is a world of offer and compromise; ideally athletic competition is the last preserve of the honest effort. A politician’s integrity can often be had for want of a vote; all sports has is its integrity.

But at a time when commercial sports has lost its way, only politicians are capable of pulling a failing industry back to its roots. Politicians may be cynical chameleons but many — as we’ve witnessed through a spate of Congressional hearings — have a passion for sport and are drawn to its core values: hard work, balance between mind and body and fair play.

The assault on fair play prompted Senator Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania to challenge the National Football League’s dismissive attitude toward the New England Patriots’ extensive cheating. Last week Specter, the ranking Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee, said the N.F.L. and its athletes are “enormous role models for everybody.”

“If you can cheat in the N.F.L., you can cheat in college, you can cheat in high school, you can cheat on your grade-school math test,” he said. “There’s no limit as to what you can do. I think they owe the public a lot more candor and a lot more credibility.”

At a time when every aspect of the sports industry has come under scrutiny, the N.F.L.’s flagship team and its head coach, Bill Belichick, were caught violating league rules. The controversy centers around Matt Walsh, the former New England video assistant.

During an interview with The New York Times, Walsh said that his superiors coached him on how to evade N.F.L. rules limiting the number of camera operators per team to two, and that team officials instructed him on ways to avoid detection while recording sideline signals of opposing coaches. During an interview with CBS, Belichick said he never instructed Walsh and generally disparaged his competence as an employee of the Patriots.

The league, understandably, wants the issue to die. Immediately. Dan Rooney, chairman of the Pittsburgh Steelers, set the tone for closure when he called the Patriots’ illicit tapings a nonissue. That was a message to N.F.L. Commissioner Roger Goodell: move on, back off. Last week Goodell, after a three-and-a-half-hour meeting in New York last Tuesday with Walsh, essentially declared an end to the matter

Goodell said that the information he received in his interview with Walsh “was consistent with what we disciplined the Patriots for last fall.”

Right.

Specter held his own three-hour meeting with Walsh in Washington the same day. Far from being convinced that the issue should be declared dead, Specter came away determined to keep it alive. He said that Walsh detailed how the Patriots used videotaped signals to their advantage: an offensive player would memorize the signals, watch for them on the sideline and pass them on to an assistant coach, Charlie Weis, who would then inform quarterback Tom Brady.

Weis, the anointed offensive guru when he was with the Patriots, has been patently pedestrian at Notre Dame. Maybe Weis should invite Walsh to South Bend, Ind., for a reunion.

The N.F.L.’s response to New England’s spying reflects a tolerance for cheating that is unacceptable.

Sprawling industries cannot adequately police themselves and Specter, to his credit, is questioning whether the N.F.L. has properly handled allegations that Belichick had assistants videotape opponents’ signals. Specter has called for an independent “objective” investigation into the Patriots’ taping practice.

“This one,” he said, referring to the N.F.L.’s in-house investigation “has not been objective.” Specter said Goodell was caught in an “apparent conflict of interest” because the N.F.L. doesn’t want the public to lose confidence in the league’s integrity.

The conflict isn’t “apparent,” it’s tremendous. The N.F.L. is a multibillion dollar industry that sells itself on fair competition and championships that are won fairly and squarely.

For years we have called Belichick — who has led the Patriots to three Super Bowl victories — this generation’s coaching genius. Brady was the cerebral general who knew what opposing defenses were going to do before they did it.

Now we know why.

Spygate, as this controversy has been called, is reminiscent of the game show scandals of the late 1950s when the supposed winners had in fact been supplied with answers in advance. The scandal prompted so much viewer outrage that Congressional hearings and investigations were held. Any industry that abuses the public’s trust — from thoroughbred horse racing to Major League Baseball — flirts with disaster.

The Patriots videotaping signals calls the fairness factor into question. Specter called for the N.F.L. to take “corrective action.” This might include hearings or a Mitchell report-type investigation. That’s the last thing the N.F.L. wants. This scandal may turn out to be that piece of loose thread that if pulled could cause the suit to unravel.

Specter is not an objective party. He has two professional football teams in his state — the Philadelphia Eagles lost to the Patriots in a Super Bowl and the Steelers were walloped last season in Foxboro, Mass.

Specter also receives campaign contributors from Philadelphia-based Comcast, the cable giant that has been involved in a dispute with the N.F.L. over the placement of the NFL Network on its cable system.

That being said, the issues he raises about the N.F.L.’s action against New England are legitimate. This book has more chapters.

The politics of business and the business of politics usually compromise the sort of fair and honest competition we celebrate in competitive athletics.

What a sad sign of the times: the sports industry has gone so far a field that we need politicians to reel it back in.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/18/sports/football/18rhoden.html?ref=footballhttp://

[Boris The Great]

Try to discount Spector all you want, but if it wasnt for him, nobody would know that the Pats had been cheating all the way back since 2000. Belichick supposedly told that to the league when Spygate first happened, but the league didnt bother to mention it to anyone until the very end of the season after Spector had stepped in.

Goodell also didnt mention what Walsh said about how he gave the tapes straight to Belichicks #1 assistant Ernie Adams, which proves that they were a lot more important than Belichick tries to act like. If the tapes were no big deal, why wouldnt he just give them to the head video guy? It was only because of Spector that we learned that info, which further shows Belichick is a fraud.

It was also because of Spector that we heard the story of Walsh saying a Pats QB told him the tapes let them know the other teams defense 75% of the time. That is a major item and Goodell didnt bother to mention that either. You know there are people who want to find out who that QB is and get him on the record about this.

If not for Spector, think of how much info the NFL would have kept under the rug. That alone shows that he should be supported, because the NFL cant be trusted to tell the truth on this.

[2112]

Walsh said his illegal filming provided the Pats with valuable information. He said one of the Pats' quarterbacks told him they knew what plays to call 75-percent of the time
link (http://www.nypost.com/seven/05172008/sports/boiling_point_111188.htm) :hmmm:

By LENN ROBBINS
BAD BLOOD: While Bill Belichick (above) was fined and penalized in the Spygate scandal, former videotaper Matt Walsh says the Patriot coach has never taken responsibility for his actions.
BAD BLOOD: While Bill Belichick (above) was fined and penalized in the Spygate scandal, former videotaper Matt Walsh says the Patriot coach has never taken responsibility for his actions.
PreviousPauseNext

May 17, 2008 -- NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell believes Spygate is over. But the bad blood between Patriot coach Bill Belichick and former videotaper Matt Walsh continues to boil over.

Now it's scorching hot.

On HBO's Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel, Walsh last night said that Belichick has never taken responsibility for his role in the illegal filming of opposing teams.

"Coach Belichick's explanation for having misinterpreted the rules, to me, that really didn't sound like taking responsibility for what we had done, especially considering the great lengths that we had gone through, uh, to hide what we were doing," said Walsh.

Belichick fired back on the CBS Evening News, saying Walsh, "didn't have any knowledge of football. He was our third video assistant."

Just days after Goodell met with Walsh and concluded there was no smoking-gun video of the Pats taping a Ram walkthrough prior to Super Bowl XXXVI and that there was no need for more disciplinary action to be taken against New England, Walsh painted a different picture.

He said the Pats began videotaping other teams in 2000, and specifically named the Tampa Bay Bucs and Steelers as teams the Pats filmed. Walsh said he believed another NFL team also was illegally taping opponents but wouldn't name the franchise.

But the strongest comments on both sides involved the extent of their relationship and the tarnishing of New England's three Super Bowl wins.

"I have to say they're, whether they're tainted or not tainted, I think any time you're caught cheating doing something, it reflects poorly on you," said Walsh, who said he was told by the Patriots what to tape and how to avoid being caught.

"I never told anybody to do that," said Belichick. "All I can tell you is what the facts are. You look at the tape. You see him filming the game. You tell me how discreet it is."

Belichick, who once said he couldn't pick Walsh out of lineup, took another shot at his former employee.

"He was fired for poor job performance and for audiotaping his superior," said Belichick. "There's not a lot of credibility. You know, he's tried to make it seem like were buddies and belong to the same book club and all. That's really a long, long stretch."

Said Walsh, "I wonder if he can pick me out on one of the three team pictures we're in together."

Walsh said his illegal filming provided the Pats with valuable information. He said one of the Pats' quarterbacks told him they knew what plays to call 75-percent of the time, a claim Belichick found laughable.

"For him to talk about game planning and strategy and play calling and how he advised coordinators, it's embarrassing, it's absurd," said Belichick. "He didn't have any knowledge of football."