They Call Me...The Negotiator

[The Rick]

I'll probably jinx myself by posting this, but I wanted to share my pride in my newly discovered negotiating skills. I didn't know I could do it so well. I've never really negotiated a new car deal before, just looked online for some tips.

With a third child on the way, it's time to upgrade the family vehicle to something a little more roomy. We decided to go with the Toyota Sienna. Since Toyota is running special finance deals right now, I started checking into new ones and ended up finding the vehicle we want (not the exact one, my wife wants the other color interior so they have to bring one in).

MSRP on the Sienna we want is $27,675. I started out by talking them down to $25,810. Edmunds.com shows that the true market value is about $25,777, so I was within about $30.

Next, there was the matter of the my current vehicle. It's a 2002 Mercury Sable LS Premium. I got a great deal when I bought it...I only paid $6000 for it. I checked Edmunds.com and trade in value was a little over $5300. Private party value was $6200 and retail value was like $7300.

My plan was to try to sell my car myself, but I thought I'd just try the trade in route. I went in at the end of the day with the mindset that I didn't need to take their crap.

They started out by offering me $5300, I told them it wasn't good enough. Told them I knew I could sell it for $6200. I also told them I knew they were going to turn around and sell it for over $7000.

They tried to show me how their deal was fair, I didn't buy it. Told them I was leaving.

Next, the finance guy comes out and wants to know what we can do to get the deal done. At this point, they're already closed for the day and are sticking around just for me. After a lot of words, he ends up bumping up the trade in value for my car to a little over $5900 at which I accepted.

The nice thing about this is that I was going to be willing to take $6000 for the Sable from an individual if I tried to sell it myself. So, the trade in was about $100 less. However, because taxes on the new vehicle are paid on the sale amount minus the trade in, I'm actually coming out ahead because I'm saving like $300 on taxes by trading the car in.

They have to bring the vehicle in from somewhere, so I'm going in tomorrow morning to sign. I did get them to make me a copy of the deal before I left in case they try anything tomorrow.

I never knew I had it in me to be such a tough SOB. :thumb:

[The Bad Guy]

Congratulations on your new vehicle.

If you really wanted to be a tough SOB, you would have told them split the difference between what you could get on a private sale and what they will resell the car for.

The best I have ever done was when I bought my Saturn for 13 grand, and turned it around on a trade for 14 2 years later. I got a really amazing deal the first time.

Ended up buying a certiifed Envoy for 19, but there was problems with the engine so GMC knocked 3 grand off my loan and fixed the car under the warranty I purchased.

[Bwana]

Heh, dude, It sounds like you cut a decent deal, but I think the boys down at the dealership came out OK as well. Enjoy your new ride.

[Fire Me Boy!]

You can ALWAYS get a better negotiating stance if you are willing to walk out. Even if it means you come back and accept their offer later, 9 times out of 10, if you get up to leave their stance will change and get you much closer to what you want.

[brorth]

If you've got the deal in writing, drive to the next nearest Toyota dealership. They are so packed in KC because of the state line issue,(Toyota would only allow 3 dealerships for KC if it were all in one state but MO has Jay Wolfe, Adams and Molle - KS has Roger Smith, Superior, and Olathe). Point being, if it's in writing, they'll dissect the deal and find a way to beat it. When they "go get it", they are trading with another dealer, and they have to send them one back, so all the dealers have that ability. If $500 is worth another hour or so, you could be a REAL sumbitch.

[Skip Towne]

You're going to bankrupt that dealer. You're hard on the economy.

[Deberg_1990]

Ive always wondered..

Why cant they price cars flat rate like everything else?

When you buy a new TV, fridge, stereo, etc, you pay the price marked in the store.

Why are cars different??

At least a few dealers like Saturn tried breaking the paradigms of the industry.

[Buehler445]

You can ALWAYS get a better negotiating stance if you are willing to walk out. Even if it means you come back and accept their offer later, 9 times out of 10, if you get up to leave their stance will change and get you much closer to what you want.

Agreed. Its a business. Don't get too attached to a car. You have to be willing to walk.

If you've got the deal in writing, drive to the next nearest Toyota dealership. They are so packed in KC because of the state line issue,(Toyota would only allow 3 dealerships for KC if it were all in one state but MO has Jay Wolfe, Adams and Molle - KS has Roger Smith, Superior, and Olathe). Point being, if it's in writing, they'll dissect the deal and find a way to beat it. When they "go get it", they are trading with another dealer, and they have to send them one back, so all the dealers have that ability. If $500 is worth another hour or so, you could be a REAL sumbitch.

That is a great friggin idea!

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

Edmunds.com is owned and operated by the big three automakers. You fell hook, line and sinker and got screwed for about $3500

[RNR]

Edmunds.com is owned and operated by the big three automakers. You fell hook, line and sinker and got screwed for about $3500

LMAO

[blueballs]

with the price of gas
OPEC should provide a vehicle for free
for buying their products

[kstater]

Edmunds.com is owned and operated by the big three automakers. You fell hook, line and sinker and got screwed for about $3500

That's what I was thinking. I think the MSRP is around 24k.

[RNR]

If you've got the deal in writing, drive to the next nearest Toyota dealership. They are so packed in KC because of the state line issue,(Toyota would only allow 3 dealerships for KC if it were all in one state but MO has Jay Wolfe, Adams and Molle - KS has Roger Smith, Superior, and Olathe). Point being, if it's in writing, they'll dissect the deal and find a way to beat it. When they "go get it", they are trading with another dealer, and they have to send them one back, so all the dealers have that ability. If $500 is worth another hour or so, you could be a REAL sumbitch.

Take it for a test drive and drive to another dealer. The next dealer will be very willing to cut the price so he call the 1st dealer and tell them not to worry a lot boy will be bringing their car back

[Bugeater]

I would've waited until I had the car in my possession before I pounded my chest. Trust me, that dealer still has a few tricks left in his bag, especially if they're arranging the financing for you.

[blueballs]

have you ever noticed the ear holes
and nostrils on a car dealer's wife
stretch marks baby

[blueballs]

while you're trying to get in the wife's anus
their negotiating on the tear ducts

[wutamess]

Never mind the fact that you're losing $3-$5K as soon as you drive off the lot?

~King of the used cars.

[BWillie]

Yeah I Know what you mean. When I bought the brown beast a year and a half ago. It said $950 in the paper, I got him to lower it to $650. Why am I so awesome

[TinyEvel]

I think everything is negotiable these days. I NEVER up and pay the price tag on most stuff. I went to get a surround sound receiver at the local A/V shop and pragmatically mentioned that I could get this $1200 receiver for $900 on-line but I appreciate the local guy and personal service, etc. but said (pragmatically) that I didn't want to pay $300 extra for the in-person experience. I got him to take it down to $1040. And he even knocked $100 off my outdoor speakers.

Also: I just got a quote for a hole-house HVAC system, and that was RIDICULOUS. Voodoo economics all the way. No itemization of the equipment/labor, and a "special" discount for getting things that were double charged or unnecessary. I almost threw the rep out of my house.

[Phobia]

Ive always wondered..

Why cant they price cars flat rate like everything else?

When you buy a new TV, fridge, stereo, etc, you pay the price marked in the store.

You do? You're not doing it right then.

[Gonzo]

Shoulda made some brownies with horse laxatives.

[Logical]

Good you are happy with your deal, that is what is important.

[Wile_E_Coyote]

Never mind the fact that you're losing $3-$5K as soon as you drive off the lot?

~King of the used cars.

I agree. I've had about 5 new vehicles & everybody should get to enjoy the feeling of driving off the lot in a new car. But I don't plan on buying any new ones again. I get my kicks out of getting the most miles I can, out of used ones now

[badgirl]

How many times did the salesperson go up to the desk to try to negotiate for you? My experience is we would go up 3 times to get the price down or trade up before the manager would talk to the customer. All the managers actually do is bullshit the whole time the salesman is up there trying to "work hard to get you that deal". The managers knows how low they will go and what they will give usually from the start of the deal, but of course they are going to try to get as much profit as they can on the first pensil.

I had a couple to buy a new truck on the first pensil and I made what is called a 4 pound deal. Means I made a 1000 bucks on that sale.

There are times to make their quota they will sell a car almost at cost.
If you request to see the bill of sale on the new vehile and see exactly what they paid for it, it is the law they show it to you on a new one.

I had a guy to pay cash for a new pathfinder and he said he wanted to see the invoice for the pathfinder, and of course the manager had to pull it out and show him and he offered to pay 1% above invoice and he got it.


Hope you got a great deal.

[Phobia]

Good you are happy with your deal, that is what is important.

Exactly. Car dealerships pay hundreds of thousands in advertising. There's no possible way they're staying in business making $50-100 for every car sale as they would have us believe. There are kick-backs, hold-backs, check-backs, and back-backs nobody knows about. Most of their money is made in the financing anyway. So even if it looks like you raped them on the sticker and trade, they're raping you right back in APR.

[badgirl]

Exactly. Car dealerships pay hundreds of thousands in advertising. There's no possible way they're staying in business making $50-100 for every car sale as they would have us believe. There are kick-backs, hold-backs, check-backs, and back-backs nobody knows about. Most of their money is made in the financing anyway. So even if it looks like you raped them on the sticker and trade, they're raping you right back in APR.

True, there is money that is made on what they call the front, and money made on the back, I always got 25% of what was made on the front profit.

I remember we used to know the price of the used cars and they told us to pull the price up from 2-5 thousand than what we knew the price was, therefore we had that amount to work with. Makes it look like the customer is really getting a lot off the price when sometimes we would end up making more money than they originally asked. Its really a slimeball business, but somebodys gotta do it.

[tmax63]

I never begrudged car dealers an honest living because if they don't make some money there won't be any but I don't want them to make it all off of me. I have always been willing to walk away (took 3 weeks once to buy a new Dodge Rampage) but I know they never lost money on me, they just didn't make as much as they would have liked.
Sounds like you did alright.

[ClevelandBronco]

Ive always wondered..

Why cant they price cars flat rate like everything else?

When you buy a new TV, fridge, stereo, etc, you pay the price marked in the store.

Not true. You can negotiate on those items as well.

[Dave Lane]

You have alot to learn but enjoy the car

[stumppy]

Look............up in the sky..........it's 'Middle Aged Man'.

[Fire Me Boy!]

Ive always wondered..

Why cant they price cars flat rate like everything else?

When you buy a new TV, fridge, stereo, etc, you pay the price marked in the store.

Why are cars different??

At least a few dealers like Saturn tried breaking the paradigms of the industry.

Heh... if it's over $100, it's negotiable. TVs, fridges, stereos... it's all negotiable.

[trndobrd]

The key to successful negotiation is to simply figure out what is important to the person you are dealing with.


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[Demonpenz]

i am lucky, i am friends with a car dealer he always gives me special deals

[Skip Towne]

i am lucky, i am friends with a car dealer he always gives me special deals

You're just a special guy. Were you treated special in school?

[badgirl]

i am lucky, i am friends with a car dealer he always gives me special deals

What you get it for 1% above invoice?

[burt]

How many times did the salesperson go up to the desk to try to negotiate for you? My experience is we would go up 3 times to get the price down or trade up before the manager would talk to the customer. All the managers actually do is bullshit the whole time the salesman is up there trying to "work hard to get you that deal". .

Wrong. The manager is most likely working several deals, or several of his many other duties.

The managers knows how low they will go .

wrong again, every deal is unique, yet the same in some aspects.

There are times to make their quota they will sell a car almost at cost..

nope, we actually lose money on some deals(not often)....it is the average profit per unit that matters.


If you request to see the bill of sale on the new vehile and see exactly what they paid for it, it is the law they show it to you on a new one.

Wrong, there is no such law, but many of us just want to save you the trouble of looking it up. I really like the onrons that say, "Which invoice is that, you guys have several." We don't have the time, nor inclination to so that.

[burt]

Exactly. Car dealerships pay hundreds of thousands in advertising. There's no possible way they're staying in business making $50-100 for every car sale as they would have us believe..

True.

There are kick-backs, hold-backs, check-backs, and back-backs nobody knows about..

Hold back true, the rest is mostly un true.

Most of their money is made in the financing anyway. .

True

So even if it looks like you raped them on the sticker and trade, they're raping you right back in APR.

Not true. If the best you can get is say....7% and the dealership gets you
6 1/4%... The dealership saved you $. So what if the dealers buy rate was 5%. I say they saved you money, not raped you.

Dealerships now have everyone armed with some good fact and much fiction. Do you tell everyone how much you are making in profit on your bids? Yet everyone can find out my invoice. Yep, us car guys are real bandits, or should I say rapists.......:doh!:

[burt]

Its really a slimeball business, but somebodys gotta do it.

Gee, and aren't you unemployed right now? I haven't been out of work for over 3 days(unless I chose to) for the last 20 years. And I have had people drive for hours just to buy from me....

Car Salesmen are like Doctors, attorneys, construction guys....etc. there are good ones and bad ones. It is interesting to know that you were one of the slimey ones....

[burt]

have you ever noticed the ear holes
and nostrils on a car dealer's wife
stretch marks baby

while you're trying to get in the wife's anus
their negotiating on the tear ducts

nice, and you guys are calling car guys slime balls.:rolleyes:

[Skip Towne]

It ain't easy being sleazy.

[HypnotizedMonkey]

if you were a tough SOB you would trade in that b!tchboat and get yourself a Harley.

jk

[badgirl]

Gee, and aren't you unemployed right now? I haven't been out of work for over 3 days(unless I chose to) for the last 20 years. And I have had people drive for hours just to buy from me....

Car Salesmen are like Doctors, attorneys, construction guys....etc. there are good ones and bad ones. It is interesting to know that you were one of the slimey ones....

i didn't say I was a sleezy one, but I have experienced some real slimeballs in the car sales professon, not just to customes, but I had a sales manager wanting to go out and have sex in his hummer, I have had them make comments to me I could have lived without, I have heard them make fun of people (potential customers) while the customers were sitting at my desk. Other salesmen were always checking out the women and girls comming on the lot and making comments about them.

Our midnight madness was the last saturday of every month, after about 9pm people were smoking pot, doing coke, and putting moonshine in their sprites, trust me I know what kind of people I have worked with, I did not like it.

Sleezy comes in many forms, I worked with the worse of them.
I have also had people to shop around and come back to me because of my personality and they felt comfortable with me.

I have just moved to KY next to my children and I have in applications at the hospital and other places and I hope to hear from them soon, but let me tell you something, I raised 3 children by myself and worked 12 hours shifts at the hospital, so I know what work is in more ways than one. During your 20 years did you leave work to go home and cook supper , clean house, wash cloths and prepare your children for school the next day before you could think of sitting down for a little rest?

[Chief Pote]

The bottom line is this.....you get what you pay for. I do not sell cars and have had my share of unusual experiences with dealers. But, if you want to buy a car from a dealer, you are going to pay the price. For those that want an easy experience and don't want the hassle of buying from a private owner, go to a dealer, but go to a reputable dealer. They DO exist. More importantly, find one with a good service department, it's a damn machine that will break and it will need fixed or serviced.

And lastly, don't ever think you are going to walk into a dealership that is trained at taking your money and take them to the cleaners. Not gonna happen.

[burt]

i didn't say I was a sleezy one, but I have experienced some real slimeballs in the car sales professon, not just to customes, but I had a sales manager wanting to go out and have sex in his hummer, I have had them make comments to me I could have lived without, I have heard them make fun of people (potential customers) while the customers were sitting at my desk. Other salesmen were always checking out the women and girls comming on the lot and making comments about them.

Our midnight madness was the last saturday of every month, after about 9pm people were smoking pot, doing coke, and putting moonshine in their sprites, trust me I know what kind of people I have worked with, I did not like it.

Don't judge me by your last car guy and I won't judge you by my last customer.....


During your 20 years did you leave work to go home and cook supper , clean house, wash cloths and prepare your children for school the next day before you could think of sitting down for a little rest?

Absolutely, but not often, because I have a partner that I can depend on. BTW, thanks for asking.

[burt]

The bottom line is this.....you get what you pay for. I do not sell cars and have had my share of unusual experiences with dealers. But, if you want to buy a car from a dealer, you are going to pay the price. For those that want an easy experience and don't want the hassle of buying from a private owner, go to a dealer, but go to a reputable dealer. They DO exist. More importantly, find one with a good service department, it's a damn machine that will break and it will need fixed or serviced.

And lastly, don't ever think you are going to walk into a dealership that is trained at taking your money and take them to the cleaners. Not gonna happen.

Here is someone that gets it.....

[Phobia]

Dealerships now have everyone armed with some good fact and much fiction. Do you tell everyone how much you are making in profit on your bids? Yet everyone can find out my invoice. Yep, us car guys are real bandits, or should I say rapists.......:doh!:

"Rape" was clearly a poor choice of word. I have no problem with people making a buck.

No, I don't tell people how much profit I make on my bids but if they ask we'll go over the numbers. I usually make a fair wage. I try to make 30-40% but it doesn't always work out that way.

I think you'll acknowledge that many of the car guys have made their own beds. That's not an indictment on you or the people with whom you work. Would you like to be associated with the Jeremy Franklin folks?

[RJ]

If The Rick thinks he got a good deal then he got a good deal. It's really just that simple.

[Brock]

It's hard to quantify a good deal on an item that is immediately worth 10-20 percent less than you paid for it as soon as you drove it off the lot.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

My new goal since gas has gotten so high is to test drive a LOT of cars.

[burt]

"Rape" was clearly a poor choice of word. I have no problem with people making a buck.

I prefer Motherfu***r. It is much more properly descriptive.

"No, I don't tell people how much profit I make on my bids but if they ask we'll go over the numbers. I usually make a fair wage. I try to make 30-40% but it doesn't always work out that way.

I think you'll acknowledge that many of the car guys have made their own beds. That's not an indictment on you or the people with whom you work. Would you like to be associated with the Jeremy Franklin folks?

It would appear that all car people are.... But then again, I may just be sensitive. That Franklin guy does set the standard...the wrong side of it....

[burt]

It's hard to quantify a good deal on an item that is immediately worth 10-20 percent less than you paid for it as soon as you drove it off the lot.

True....but gambling on a used vehicle sometimes does NOT pay off... does some times too....

[HemiEd]

More importantly, find one with a good service department, it's a damn machine that will break and it will need fixed or serviced.




Everything you said is true, but this. Everybody on the planet knows that Toyotas, Hondas, Nissans, Hiundais, Lexus, Acura and Infiniti never have any issues with breaking down. Only GM, Ford and Chrysler have those problems.

[badgirl]

Don't judge me by your last car guy and I won't judge you by my last customer.....


Fair enough

Absolutely, but not often, because I have a partner that I can depend on. BTW, thanks for asking.

Good for you, hang on for dear life, good partners are hard to find.

[The Rick]

I'm confident I got a good deal. Did I "take them to the cleaners"? No. It's not like I don't expect them to make a profit. That's why they're in business.

However, I got $2000 off the sticker price of the car and the private party Kelly Blue Book value for my trade in when you factor in the savings on sales tax. On top of that, I got to take advantage of the 0% financing.

I'm positive they made some money off of me, but probably not as much as the guy before me or the guy after me.

[badgirl]

I'm confident I got a good deal. Did I "take them to the cleaners"? No. It's not like I don't expect them to make a profit. That's why they're in business.

However, I got $2000 off the sticker price of the car and the private party Kelly Blue Book value for my trade in when you factor in the savings on sales tax. On top of that, I got to take advantage of the 0% financing.

I'm positive they made some money off of me, but probably not as much as the guy before me or the guy after me.

As long as you feel you got a good deal that is all that matters really. Hope you enjoy your new ride.:)

[The Rick]

As long as you feel you got a good deal that is all that matters really. Hope you enjoy your new ride.:)
Actually, it's the wife's new ride! She's the one who gets to haul the kids around! o:-)

[badgirl]

Actually, it's the wife's new ride! She's the one who gets to haul the kids around! o:-)

Oh, what a lucky woman to have a man to get a good deal on HER a new ride. Have another one of you hanging around anywhere?? :thumb:

[burt]

Good for you, hang on for dear life, good partners are hard to find.

Did you see the Cancun pics? I married well. Very well.

[badgirl]

Did you see the Cancun pics? I married well. Very well.

No I haven't saw them. Its great being married, I would have loved being married for the rest of my life, I just found the wrong men to marry. :banghead:

[burt]

No I haven't saw them. Its great being married, I would have loved being married for the rest of my life, I just found the wrong men to marry. :banghead:

I think I found the right one, but if not, I will thank god for every minute he gives me with her!! Check out the Cancun pics in picture forum.

[badgirl]

I think I found the right one, but if not, I will thank god for every minute he gives me with her!! Check out the Cancun pics in picture forum.

will do....you sound very much in love. I wish you the best.:thumb:

I looked at the pics they are beautiful and you are right when you say you done well, she looks like a very sweet and pretty lady. Beautiful children also...good for you.