Phelps family loses in court

[Lzen]

<mcc subhead=""></mcc>http://www.cjonline.com/stories/052108/loc_281239740.shtml#mdw-comments

In another case, sides argue tax status of truck

<mcc byline1=""> </mcc>By Mike Hall
<mcc byline2=""> </mcc>The Capital-Journal
Published Wednesday, May 21, 2008
<mcc story=""> </mcc>Whether the picket signs carried by members of Westboro Baptist Church carry religious or political messages is at issue on whether the church has to pay tax on the pickup truck used to carry the signs.
But the decision may be irrelevant if the church's appeal of a federal court decision in Maryland fails.
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In fact, a decision Monday in the Maryland case removed a legal obstacle to beginning collections on the property. This past October, a federal district court in Maryland found Pastor Fred W. Phelps Sr., Shirley L. Phelps-Roper, Rebekah A. Phelps-Davis and Westboro Baptist Church had invaded the privacy of and inflicted intentional emotional distress on the family of a Marine whose funeral was picketed by church members.
A jury awarded Albert Snyder, father of the Marine, compensatory damage of $2.9 million and punitive damage of $8 million. But on Feb. 4, U.S. District Court Judge Richard D. Bennett reduced the punitive damage to $2.1 million, for a total judgment of $5 million.
The church and the Phelpses filed a petition seeking a stay on the collection on that penalty. They also filed an appeal of the verdict.
If the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Maryland upholds the lower court decision, property owned by the three named Phelps family members and the church itself would be confiscated.
The appeals court there issued an order Monday denying the church's request for a stay in the execution of the lower court's ruling. No date has been set for the hearing on the appeal itself.
Sean Summers, a York, Pa., attorney representing Snyder, said rejection of the stay allows the court to proceed to collection of the church's property even though the ruling has been appealed.
The issue of the property tax on the pickup truck was heard Tuesday in Topeka before the Kansas Court of Appeals. Margie Phelps, an attorney and member of the church, argued that all of the church's messages are representations of what the church considers to be its religious purpose.
But Shawn Leisinger, assistant Shawnee County counselor, noted that Kansas law requires that a property must be used exclusively for religious purposes to be exempt from taxation. He noted the Kansas Board of Tax Appeals ruled the truck was subject to taxation because of evidence presented that there was at least some political content in the messages.
He said that of 602 picket signs cited in the BOTA case, 250 named public figures, many of them political figures.
Westboro Baptist Church is known for picketing and using other means to protest against acceptance of homosexuality. The strongly worded picket signs and other activities used during the pickets anger a number of people.
And that was used by Margie Phelps as part of her argument that the signs aren't political.
"If any member of this church were to endorse a political candidate — which they never do — it would be the kiss of death," she said.
Mike Hall can be reached at (785) 295-1209 or mike.hall@cjonline.com.

[MIAdragon]

Karma's a 3itch

[chasedude]

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

[Duck Dog]

And that was used by Margie Phelps as part of her argument that the signs aren't political.
"If any member of this church were to endorse a political candidate — which they never do — it would be the kiss of death," she said.

That's the least of you worries, Bitch. The first one of you assholes to step inside the penal system is meat.

[Gonzo]

I know one thing, if a loved one of mine died serving their country and this sonbitch showed at the funeral, I would be the one serving time.

[blueballs]

I put the bastards on iggy

[kaplin42]

Can the courts actually sieze the property that the church is on? If so, that is turning a frown, upside down right there.

[beach tribe]

I know one thing, if a loved one of mine died serving their country and this sonbitch showed at the funeral, I would be the one serving time.

My best frind died in Iraq. These assholes were there. They had police on the scene to keep the peace. My friends and I walked right up, and spit coke, and saliva all over them. The cops busted out laughing, so I decided to get in my truck, and spin gravel, and dust all over them.

The only smiles on a horrible day.

GREAT guy. He was so cool, that I was estatic(sp) that he was engaged to my sister.

James "Dusty" Carroll RIP

[Frazod]

My best frind died in Iraq. These assholes were there. They had police on the scene to keep the peace. My friends and I walked right up, and spit coke, and saliva all over them. The cops busted out laughing, so I decided to get in my truck, and spin gravel, and dust all over them.

The only smiles on a horrible day.

GREAT guy. He was so cool, that I was estatic(sp) that he was engaged to my sister.

James "Dusty Carroll RIP

I think you are the first person here (at least that I've noticed) that's actually had a personal experience with these vermin during a funeral. I applaud what you did. That's great. Hopefully one or two of them had eyes put out by your flying gravel. :thumb:

[RNR]

My best frind died in Iraq. These assholes were there. They had police on the scene to keep the peace. My friends and I walked right up, and spit coke, and saliva all over them. The cops busted out laughing, so I decided to get in my truck, and spin gravel, and dust all over them.

The only smiles on a horrible day.

GREAT guy. He was so cool, that I was estatic(sp) that he was engaged to my sister.

James "Dusty Carroll RIP

Sorry for your loss, it makes my heart hurt every time we lose a troop. I have no idea what I would do if I faced these people but I am certain I would end up in handcuffs.

[kc rush]

My best frind died in Iraq. These assholes were there. They had police on the scene to keep the peace. My friends and I walked right up, and spit coke, and saliva all over them. The cops busted out laughing, so I decided to get in my truck, and spin gravel, and dust all over them.

The only smiles on a horrible day.

GREAT guy. He was so cool, that I was estatic(sp) that he was engaged to my sister.

James "Dusty Carroll RIP

Sorry for your loss, and I admire your restraint. Taking $5 mil from these bastards isn't enough.

[codeman]

Sorry for your loss, it makes my heart hurt every time we lose a troop. I have no idea what I would do if I faced these people but I am certain I would end up in handcuffs.

Maybe not if you read the post above.

I still can't find anyting in the NKJ Bible that agrees with what they are doing. I keep looking and don't find anything that could even be misinterpreted to justify what they do.

[Deberg_1990]

How big is their church? Anyone know?

I cant imagine many sharing thier core beliefs outside of family members? Kind of sad really. Im sure many of those are brainwashed zombies from birth on this sort of nonsense.

I wish the press would stop giving these idiots run. They are only getting what they want.

[Uncle_Ted]

How big is their church? Anyone know?

I cant imagine many sharing thier core beliefs outside of family members? Kind of sad really. Im sure many of those are brainwashed zombies from birth on this sort of nonsense.

I wish the press would stop giving these idiots run. They are only getting what they want.

I think it pretty much just is the extended family ... maybe like 20 members.

While it is "news", were it not for the internet this would merit only a few inches of column near the back of the local news section of the paper.

[Coach]

Can the courts actually sieze the property that the church is on? If so, that is turning a frown, upside down right there.

They can if the family fails to pay for the damages.

[seclark]

I think you are the first person here (at least that I've noticed) that's actually had a personal experience with these vermin during a funeral. I applaud what you did. That's great. Hopefully one or two of them had eyes put out by your flying gravel. :thumb:

well...they showed up in kville last summer for a local kids funeral that was killed in iraq. freedom of road riders along w/tons of locals showed up and kept between the a-holes and the funeral. whenever they started chanting, the bikers would start revving up their bikes. then people lined up along the highway and waved flags as the funeral procession passed by.

lots of mixed emotions that day.
sec

[DenverChief]

Music to my ears....it would be a cryin shame should a PTSD Soldier/Sailor/Airman or Marine were to go on a shooting spree @ their dump of a church

http://images.morris.com/images/cjonline/mdControlled/cms/2008/04/04/264906222.jpg

[Frazod]

well...they showed up in kville last summer for a local kids funeral that was killed in iraq. freedom of road riders along w/tons of locals showed up and kept between the a-holes and the funeral. whenever they started chanting, the bikers would start revving up their bikes. then people lined up along the highway and waved flags as the funeral procession passed by.

lots of mixed emotions that day.
sec

Who was it that got killed?

[seclark]

Who was it that got killed?

can't remember, fraz...young kid. had the funeral at the high school. took him to the veterans cemetery in jacksonville.
i can check w/the wife on a name and pm you.
sec

[Frazod]

can't remember, fraz...young kid. had the funeral at the high school. took him to the veterans cemetery in jacksonville.
i can check w/the wife on a name and pm you.
sec

I'd appreciate that. I doubt if I know him, especially if he's young. I only actually lived in Kirksville for three years, and that was a long, long time ago. But still....

[seclark]

I'd appreciate that. I doubt if I know him, especially if he's young. I only actually lived in Kirksville for three years, and that was a long, long time ago. But still....

no problem...just sent her an email.
sec

[seclark]

I'd appreciate that. I doubt if I know him, especially if he's young. I only actually lived in Kirksville for three years, and that was a long, long time ago. But still....

check your rep...your pm's are deactivated.
sec

[Frazod]

check your rep...your pm's are deactivated.
sec

They aren't deactivated - I only take PMs from people on my contacts list. I'll add you to my list directly.

I didn't know him, or anybody by that name that I can remember.

[R&GHomer]

I hope they bend these turds over and ****em with a red hot poker.

[Fish]

Music to my ears....it would be a cryin shame should a PTSD Soldier/Sailor/Airman or Marine were to go on a shooting spree @ their dump of a church

http://images.morris.com/images/cjonline/mdControlled/cms/2008/04/04/264906222.jpg

Actually they have a pretty complex surveillance system set up around their church. If someone so much as throws an egg at the building, they will try and prosecute. I know someone that got caught on their cameras....

Obviously not foolproof though, considering the picture you posted...

[beach tribe]

J D C

[Valiant]

Actually they have a pretty complex surveillance system set up around their church. If someone so much as throws an egg at the building, they will try and prosecute. I know someone that got caught on their cameras....

Obviously not foolproof though, considering the picture you posted...


Water balloon launcher with eggs.. Should be good for 100+ yards, Camera's will never see it coming..

[Fish]

Water balloon launcher with eggs.. Should be good for 100+ yards, Camera's will never see it coming..

:hmmm:

[beach tribe]

Water balloon launcher with eggs.. Should be good for 100+ yards, Camera's will never see it coming..

FIRE AT WILL MEN!!!!

[Spott]

I'm surprised that noone from this church has been killed yet. I can't imagine protesting outside of a funeral for someone you don't know and not expecting to have your pancreas pulled out and fed to you in return.

[Wilson8]

Update on this thread...Makes me pretty damn mad.

Marine's dad ordered to pay protesters' court fees

The father of a Marine killed in Iraq and whose funeral was picketed by anti-gay protesters was ordered to pay the protesters' appeal costs, his lawyers said Monday.

On Friday, Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit ordered Snyder to pay $16,510 to Fred Phelps. Phelps is the leader of the Westboro Baptist Church, which conducted protests at Marine Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder's funeral in 2006.

The two-page decision supplied by attorneys for Albert Snyder of York, Pa., offered no details on how the court came to its decision.

Attorneys also said Snyder is struggling to come up with fees associated with filing a brief with the U.S. Supreme Court.

The decision adds "insult to injury," said Sean Summers, one of Snyder's lawyers.

The high court agreed to consider whether the protesters' message is protected by the First Amendment or limited by the competing privacy and religious rights of the mourners.

http://www.kansascity.com/2010/03/29/1844265/marines-dad-ordered-to-pay-protesters.html

[FAX]

Good.

FAX

[KcMizzou]

This whole Phelps clan seems like a cult. It's hard to understand how a group of people could be so misguided.

When it's one guy... you chalk it up to "crazy", but something like this is hard to wrap your head around.

[Wilson8]

FAX,
I hope you did not mean that and did not read the story about the Marine's family having to pay court costs for Phelps. Fred Phelps and his followers have no human decency.

[KcMizzou]

FAX,
I hope you did not mean that and did not read the story about the Marine's family having to pay court costs for Phelps. Fred Phelps and his followers have no human decency.I think Mr. FAX was commenting on the original post... not the post (your post) that preceded his.

[007]

Update on this thread...Makes me pretty damn mad.

Marine's dad ordered to pay protesters' court fees

The father of a Marine killed in Iraq and whose funeral was picketed by anti-gay protesters was ordered to pay the protesters' appeal costs, his lawyers said Monday.

On Friday, Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit ordered Snyder to pay $16,510 to Fred Phelps. Phelps is the leader of the Westboro Baptist Church, which conducted protests at Marine Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder's funeral in 2006.

The two-page decision supplied by attorneys for Albert Snyder of York, Pa., offered no details on how the court came to its decision.

Attorneys also said Snyder is struggling to come up with fees associated with filing a brief with the U.S. Supreme Court.

The decision adds "insult to injury," said Sean Summers, one of Snyder's lawyers.

The high court agreed to consider whether the protesters' message is protected by the First Amendment or limited by the competing privacy and religious rights of the mourners.

http://www.kansascity.com/2010/03/29/1844265/marines-dad-ordered-to-pay-protesters.htmlWhat a load of BS. :cuss:

America, land of the loopholes. The fact that any judge would render this decision just proves what a faulty justice system we have these days.

[BWillie]

So wikipedia says this clown got 30% of the votes in 1992 when he ran for the US Senate as a democrat. What the f*ck? Who are these 30%? Almost 50,000 people voted for this asshat

[FAX]

So wikipedia says this clown got 30% of the votes in 1992 when he ran for the US Senate as a democrat. What the f*ck? Who are these 30%? Almost 50,000 people voted for this asshat

There are a lot of fundamentalist Christians, Mr. BWillie007. A whole lot ... more than 30, maybe.

Prophecy seminars are extremely well attended. In addition, almost all literature and CDs on the End Times sells very well. Just look at the "Left Behind" series, those books were extremely profitable ... and are still selling. It's a massive sub-culture that is growing by the day, fueled by economic problems, the Middle East conflicts, and Moon Pies.

Interestingly, a large number of fundamentalists desire conflict in the Middle East. They would like to rebuild the Temple, for example ... in order to fulfill one of the End Times requirements. Obviously, rebuilding the Temple would mean the probable destruction of the Dome Of The Rock which, by itself, would foster untold violence in the area. But they don't care. In fact, they welcome the idea. It's a sector of Christianity that's founded on a death wish. Followed, of course, by the expected resurrection.

FAX

[Thig Lyfe]

My best frind died in Iraq. These assholes were there. They had police on the scene to keep the peace. My friends and I walked right up, and spit coke, and saliva all over them. The cops busted out laughing, so I decided to get in my truck, and spin gravel, and dust all over them.

The only smiles on a horrible day.

GREAT guy. He was so cool, that I was estatic(sp) that he was engaged to my sister.

James "Dusty" Carroll RIP

Man, I totally support the sentiment there and would find it hard not to do the same, but it seems like that kind of thing only vindicates them and makes them stronger. They feed off the negative attention. Everybody knows they're crazy assholes, so why even acknowledge their existence?

[007]

Man, I totally support the sentiment there and would find it hard not to do the same, but it seems like that kind of thing only vindicates them and makes them stronger. They feed off the negative attention. Everybody knows they're crazy assholes, so why even acknowledge their existence?And therein lies the problem. AS long as people continue to spout off at them and the media continues to cover them, they are not going away.

Unfortunately, they are national now. Everyone knows about them. It pissed me off to no end with Fox News starting interviewing them live a couple years back and a couple more times since then.

Quit giving them the coverage they desire.

Doesn't change the fact that our legal system won't allow for anything to be done about them.

[btlook1]

Hopefully this guy wins the appeal and doesn't have to pay anything....when he gets the church he should burn it down. It's his property so he can do what he wants with it right.

[Braincase]

What a load of BS. :cuss:

America, land of the loopholes. The fact that any judge would render this decision just proves what a faulty justice system we have these days.

The right thing to do would be for the family that won the 5 million dollar judgement against them (which they'll never pay) to speak up and say "We got this guy covered".

[Bugeater]

The right thing to do would be for the family that won the 5 million dollar judgement against them (which they'll never pay) to speak up and say "We got this guy covered".
Ummm...it's the same guy. Now how they went from awarding him the $5M to making him pay the shitheads' appeals costs is beyond me.

[ChiefMojo]

If they seize that house and church, tear down those suckers to the ground immediately!

[Farzin]

Sucks to be them.

This video shows how intelligent these geniuses are.

Lengthy video, but worth your time if you ever have 40 minutes to kill.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfDoqqWdR7A

[pikesome]

Ummm...it's the same guy. Now how they went from awarding him the $5M to making him pay the shitheads' appeals costs is beyond me.

There was an appeal of the $5million verdict, the father lost. He's appealing to the Supreme Court and, because that's the way it works, he has to pay the other parties legal fees.

[Braincase]

Ummm...it's the same guy. Now how they went from awarding him the $5M to making him pay the shitheads' appeals costs is beyond me.

Got it, misread the thing. I'm guessing that as the damages were thrown out, the family got nailed with their legal expenses. I wish the whole Phelps clan would just die.

[Warrior5]

Hopefully this guy wins the appeal and doesn't have to pay anything....when he gets the church he should burn it down. It's his property so he can do what he wants with it right.

He shouldn't burn it down... I hope he donates it to the Wounded Warriors program so they can turn it into a rehab center.

[Lzen]

This whole Phelps clan seems like a cult. It's hard to understand how a group of people could be so misguided.

When it's one guy... you chalk it up to "crazy", but something like this is hard to wrap your head around.

It is my belief that grandpapa Phelps has a spell over his people in the same way David Koresh had over his people.

[Lzen]

So wikipedia says this clown got 30% of the votes in 1992 when he ran for the US Senate as a democrat. What the f*ck? Who are these 30%? Almost 50,000 people voted for this asshat

Hmmm......that's unbelievable. I'm guessing that this was before Phelps became well known around the state and subsequently, the country. People probably didn't know who they were voting for. Kinda like how Obama got elected. :D

[HC_Chief]

Hmmm......that's unbelievable. I'm guessing that this was before Phelps became well known around the state and subsequently, the country. People probably didn't know who they were voting for. Kinda like how Obama got elected. :D

No, Topekans knew quite well who that f*ckstick was in 1992. I live in T-Town back then; Phelps was well known at that time. Dumbasses used to picket at various churches and intersections all the time... and at Gage Park (for whatever reason.... maybe because "Gage" has the sound "gay" in it?)

[Lzen]

No, Topekans knew quite well who that f*ckstick was in 1992. I live in T-Town back then; Phelps was well known at that time. Dumbasses used to picket at various churches and intersections all the time... and at Gage Park (for whatever reason.... maybe because "Gage" has the sound "gay" in it?)

If you say so. All I know is that I have lived in Topeka all my life and every single person with whom I have ever discussed the Phelps says they think he is wrong/a nut job/an asshole/false prophet.

[Gravedigger]

The only time I've run into these guys were at a George Carlin performance at the Lied Center on KU campus and they were out there holding signs about hating homosexuals. They called me and my buddy Tom pillowbiters, and Tom went right up to the guy and got right in his face, not making contact but asking him what'd you say? The guy didnt look him in the eyes one time and backed down like a pussy. Big talk is all these dicks do but they never back it up.

[chubychecker]

It is my belief that grandpapa Phelps has a spell over his people in the same way David Koresh had over his people.

Its all a business. We would all be floored if we knew how much $$$ gets donates to these folks every year. When there kids grow up they simply enter into the family business. I don't even know if many of them believe the BS they are saying.
Posted via Mobile Device

[teedubya]

I want to make a sign that says "Herm Loves Figs [Newtons]"

[HC_Chief]

If you say so. All I know is that I have lived in Topeka all my life and every single person with whom I have ever discussed the Phelps says they think he is wrong/a nut job/an asshole/false prophet.

Oh, I don't doubt that.... but I am also not surprised there are a bunch of nutjobs out there who would vote for him.

[Brock]

I make no claim about the legitimacy of this website, but it's supposed to be a donation site to help with this guy's legal costs.

matthewsnyder.org

[Lzen]

Its all a business. We would all be floored if we knew how much $$$ gets donates to these folks every year. When there kids grow up they simply enter into the family business. I don't even know if many of them believe the BS they are saying.
Posted via Mobile Device

I'm not buying that. I think these people truly believe the BS they spew. If you have ever seen them out and about or heard them talk, you would know. I'm sure you have seen some of it on the news up there.

[chubychecker]

I'm not buying that. I think these people truly believe the BS they spew. If you have ever seen them out and about or heard them talk, you would know. I'm sure you have seen some of it on the news up there.

I gre up about 2 blocks away from their compound and went to school with about 10 of them. I know for a fact that fred jr. Wasn't that into it for a while but came back full-force. Its all about$$$$.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Braincase]

I remember reading part of an online expose that described Fred beating his kids with an axe handle, and I guess one of the boys swings from the other side of the plate.

[Saul Good]

There are a lot of fundamentalist Christians, Mr. BWillie007. A whole lot ... more than 30, maybe.

Prophecy seminars are extremely well attended. In addition, almost all literature and CDs on the End Times sells very well. Just look at the "Left Behind" series, those books were extremely profitable ... and are still selling. It's a massive sub-culture that is growing by the day, fueled by economic problems, the Middle East conflicts, and Moon Pies.

Interestingly, a large number of fundamentalists desire conflict in the Middle East. They would like to rebuild the Temple, for example ... in order to fulfill one of the End Times requirements. Obviously, rebuilding the Temple would mean the probable destruction of the Dome Of The Rock which, by itself, would foster untold violence in the area. But they don't care. In fact, they welcome the idea. It's a sector of Christianity that's founded on a death wish. Followed, of course, by the expected resurrection.

FAX

Fundamentalist Christians don't tend to vote for Democrats. That's not where the votes came from.

[dirk digler]

Kudos to Bill O'Reilly he is going to pay the $16,000 for the family.

[Psyko Tek]

Sorry for your loss, and I admire your restraint. Taking $5 mil from these bastards isn't enough.

yeah, but it'll hurt them the most

if one gets beat up or killed he's a martyr

no money
no more trips to do their perversion

[BWillie]

I think I want to join their church. Then I'm going to bang all of his daughters and make a sex tape. I'll get them banished to hell one by one.

[btlook1]

I think I want to join their church. Then I'm going to bang all of his daughters and make a sex tape. I'll get them banished to hell one by one.

Good plan....let us know how it works out for you....I think we will pass on the video portion though..

[Braincase]

I think I want to join their church. Then I'm going to bang all of his daughters and make a sex tape. I'll get them banished to hell one by one.

Godspeed to you , sir!