BRC is no longer a "real" fan.

[BigRedChief]

Edited version of my email to the chiefs........................

After being on the season ticket waiting list for 4 years I finally became a season ticket holder in 1996. Back then 3 season tickets cost me $1,113. This year’s bill was $2,604. By the time you tally in parking, gas to and from the games the yearly bill easily exceeds $3,000. That doesn’t even include tailgating supplies or anything bought inside the stadium. With that kind of money I could plan a major family vacation, house improvements, and provide additional funds for college etc.etc. Spending $3,000 for something that has lost its value just doesn’t make sense to me anymore.
<O:p</O:p
I’m sure that the season ticket prices will continue to go up at a rate higher than inflation and with the re-opening of the “new” Arrowhead really escalate in price. I’m not having a financial hardship. I’m still way over paid for the work that I do. There is no reason to doubt that in the future that my pay scale will continue upward. So I can afford the season tickets even the club level seats if I so chose to do so. It’s just that I don’t think it’s a good value for my family anymore.
<O:p</O:p
When I have to pay for 2 pre-season games (close to $500.00) that are glorified practices it reduces the value of being a season ticket holder. I’m now unable to sell my tickets at face value to anyone. Sometimes I can’t even give them away for free. That decreases the value of being a season ticket holder.
<O:p</O:p
When I try to upgrade my seats to a better location I’m told that there are no real upgrades available. I feel this is because of the Wolf pack Club program that saves lower level seats and premium upper level seats for new season ticket holders. You can pay $400 - $500 a year to join the “club” and you jump in front of me. 12 years of season tickets are worth $400 to the Chiefs. How many $1,000’s have I spent on pre-season games and down year games? Again this has de-valued being a season ticket holder.
</O:p
I love tailgating. I love seeing old friends and meeting new ones on game days. The game day experience no matter if the Chiefs win or lose is always an excellent time. Year after year I have seen some hard core long time season ticket holders give up their tickets. This has taken a toll on the fervor of the fans inside Arrowhead.
<O:p</O:p
These hard core fans have been replaced by people seeking social time with friends and family, co-workers and businesses rewarding employees. They love their pre-game tents with the no fuss ready to eat buffets. They will really love the new club level. Nothing wrong with this new social dynamic except that a by product of this is that they are not as committed to the team and making Arrowhead the loudest stadium in the NFL as were the fans that they replaced. And that decreases the value and fun of being a season ticket holder.
<O:p
Maybe if I had no faith in King Carl to rebuild our team I’d still see a value in being a season ticket holder. King Carl deserves to be in the KC Chiefs HOF. He is directly responsible for making the Arrowhead game day experience one of the best if not the best in the NFL. But his arrogance has also brought the Chiefs down to levels that have been shameful and very distasteful to experience as a Chiefs fan.
<O:p</O:p
King Carl has had 19 years to get this right but he still can’t admit mistakes. His failure to evaluate talent is why we are in the current re-building mode. His time as GM should have been up a long time ago. I feel that he has stayed on as GM because of the great business skills he has and the profit he makes for the franchise. I believe King Carl wants to win as much as any of the NFL GM’s, he just doesn’t know how. After 19 years its time to give someone else a chance.
<O:p</O:p
One of the benefits of being a season ticket holder is keeping the same tickets for playoff games. One playoff game at Arrowhead in 10 years doesn’t increase the value of being a season ticket holder.
<O:p</O:p
I’m optimistic about the future. The last 2 drafts have given us fans hope. I’ll still go to the games. I’ll just cherry pick the games. Home opener, Broncos, Raiders etc. Maybe in a couple of years from now when we are good again I’ll see the value in being a season ticket holder. I can just buy the rights to someone’s seat with the $6,000 that I saved from not giving that money to the Chiefs front office for 2 years. I’ll always be a Chiefs fan and shall cheer no other. It’s just that the majority of the time I’ll be doing that cheering in front of a big screen TV.

[stlchiefs]

Carl Lover :cuss:

[hawkchief]

Eerily similar (only nicer) to the letter I addressed to Lamar 6 years ago.

[kstater]

:toast:

[teedubya]

Good job, BRC. They will probably mail you a letter back, saying... Enjoy watching the Big Screen TV, when KCTV5 is blacked out.

[HemiEd]

Damn, BRC, that is a big step. One they should not take lightly, hopefully they will have Glen Dorsey give you a call.

[BigRedChief]

Damn, BRC, that is a big step. One they should not take lightly, hopefully they will have Glen Dorsey give you a call.
Nzoner/JSPChief were as hard core fans/tailgators as me and they gave em up 2 years ago. Wonder if they got a call from a red coater?

[siberian khatru]

Luzap loves you.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Luzap loves you.

ROFL

[Rausch]

They will probably mail you a letter back, saying... Enjoy watching the Big Screen TV, when KCTV5 is blacked out.

Yeah, like what I need is more motivation to find a more fruitful use of my time at this point.

Getting a letter like that would just reassure me that spending the money elsewhere was a good idea...

[HemiEd]

Nzoner/JSPChief were as hard core fans/tailgators as me and they gave em up 2 years ago. Wonder if they got a call from a red coater?

I hate seeing this change, really. The hardcore fans are the key to the small market success IMO.

[J Diddy]

Geez

I wonder if Carl will get blamed for global warming if he doesn't recycle all those unopened envelopes.

[Rain Man]

I bet the ticket sales group was really concerned about this until Herm stuck his head in the door and told them to get over it.

[J Diddy]

I bet the ticket sales group was really concerned about this until Herm stuck his head in the door and told them to get over it.


It'll be alright.

It happens.

[Buehler445]

Wow BRC. Nice work. Can't blame you for finding the best value. It is a very candid look into the head of a fan. Hopefully it will not fall on deaf ears.

[Reerun_KC]

I bet the ticket sales group was really concerned about this until Herm stuck his head in the door and told them to get over it.
ROFL

[007]

STANDING OVATION!!!!!

[StcChief]

welcome to the club..... F being "real fans" in Carl's world.

[Nzoner]

Nzoner/JSPChief were as hard core fans/tailgators as me and they gave em up 2 years ago. Wonder if they got a call from a red coater?

No call here but I did get a few e-mails and most recently a full color mailer.I really hate seeing this happen but as you said in your letter it's time for a change at the top and as customers this action is truly our only voice.

My tailgate group which was a dozen others finally did the same thing this season and said enough is enough,as I recall that was another $12,000 lost in STH's.

Could be an ugly sight at Arrowhead this season with numerous empty seats and the NFL did the organization no favors by putting 2 division games in the first two,so fans say cool,2 division games in person and then I can kick back and see if I want to go to any others.

[smittysbar]

nice

[bogey]

If I couldn't watch the Chiefs every Sunday on the NFL Directtv Sunday ticket (win or lose) I would be the one suffering. If I had season tickets at Arrowhead, and all of the sudden stopped attending, I feel like it would be me that lost out, not the Chiefs. I respect the fact that you wrote a letter, but the King and the Chiefs don't give a shit. You're losing out on something that I assume was a pleasure. Congrats to you for sticking to your guns. I have few passions in life, watching the Chiefs is one of them. If I had season tickets, I couldn't give up that passion. That's just me.

[StcChief]

Could be an ugly sight at Arrowhead this season with numerous empty seats and the NFL did the organization no favors by putting 2 division games in the first two,so fans say cool,2 division games in person In the first 4 and then I can kick back and see if I want to go to any others. NFL still hates Chiefs don't care about
'their schedule'.... AGAIN HOW ARE Faider/Donxs on MNF first week(not that MNF is now relevant since it it's cable ESPN) ? McFadden new chicken leg RB, the second coming of Elway in Cuntler in rival AFC matchup.?

[Bugeater]

I'm sure Carl printed off this letter, lit it on fire, then used it to light a cigar.

[Nzoner]

I'm sure Carl printed off this letter, lit it on fire, then used it to light a cigar.

King Carl use paper to light a cigar,meh,I'll bet he uses C-notes :)

[DaFace]

Wow...I didn't figure you'd be quite to the point of giving them up yet. Where will people go to tailgate? :sulk:

Kidding of course. You gotta do what you gotta do.

[StcChief]

King Carl use paper to light a cigar,meh,I'll bet he uses C-notes :)
C-Notes are in his pocket.....maybe his bonus is serously tied to this or the phone calls wouldn't be happening....

10K????? STH called it quits....Blackouts await

[007]

Wow...I didn't figure you'd be quite to the point of giving them up yet. Where will people go to tailgate? :sulk:

Kidding of course. You gotta do what you gotta do.

As long as he is still in his usual spot for the season opener this year.:)

[kc rush]

Wow, that surprised me. After talking with you last year, it sounded like you were in it for the long haul.

[little jacob]

thank you sir for doing your part to oust carl peterson

[BigRedChief]

Wow...I didn't figure you'd be quite to the point of giving them up yet. Where will people go to tailgate? :sulk:

Kidding of course. You gotta do what you gotta do.
I'll still go to games. Just not all 10 games.

[blueballs]

Carl uses cotton paper in his printer
those butt cuts don't heal well

[Hammock Parties]

Going to a game is a pretty exhausting experience nowadays anyway. Not worth it if the team blows and the fans aren't into it like they used to be. Let alone the money.

[BigRedChief]

Going to a game is a pretty exhausting experience nowadays anyway. Not worth it if the team blows and the fans aren't into it like they used to be. Let alone the money.
You guys should make sure King Carl or someone other than the mail room reads the letter.

[ChiefsCountry]

You guys should make sure King Carl or someone other than the mail room reads the letter.

I'm positive they know what is going on.

Now to the business side: But right now all sport franchises are trying to get tickets from two groups right now - businesses and Generation X and Y. Most franchises kind of want the baby boomer group out and replaced with younger season ticket holders. Dont kill the messager but its a trend that will be seen more and more among sport franchises.

[Hammock Parties]

You guys should make sure King Carl or someone other than the mail room reads the letter.

I'll see what I can do. I only got like three people, including you, to follow up on the disgruntled season-ticket holders article (Is Arrowhead Dying?) we ran during the season.

[Reerun_KC]

If I couldn't watch the Chiefs every Sunday on the NFL Directtv Sunday ticket (win or lose) I would be the one suffering. If I had season tickets at Arrowhead, and all of the sudden stopped attending, I feel like it would be me that lost out, not the Chiefs. I respect the fact that you wrote a letter, but the King and the Chiefs don't give a shit. You're losing out on something that I assume was a pleasure. Congrats to you for sticking to your guns. I have few passions in life, watching the Chiefs is one of them. If I had season tickets, I couldn't give up that passion. That's just me.

Dude the last two years have really taken a toll on the fanbase... Hell I find it hard to pony up the $275 or whatever it is this year for the NFL Ticket, just to watch the Chiefs... yeah it doesnt seem like a lot compared to the STH's cash they have to pony up, but right now, this brand of 1989 football has sucked the life out of the fanbase.

I like the youth, the team, but the coaches are keeping people from truly embracing this team and moving forward with excitement and passion. 2010 should be the year KC has new leadership and coaching. Until then.... We all have to suffer together.

[teedubya]

People... this isn't a ONE year thing.

This fan base has been worn out since Montana left town. And, that was the last real hope for our franchise. If Montana had come back for 95... and Carl hadn't fired Nick Lowery. Oh, the magical memories we could have shared.

But no. Bono and Elliot ruin it. Then we lose to the Donkos... in 1997. Neil Smith goes to the Broncos and wins a ****ing Superbowl. Bong Morris and Gunther as head coach is what we get. And more Carl. Arrghh

Derrick Thomas' death gave a real blow to the fan base of the Chiefs.

Then a resurgence with the Priest Holmes, Tony Gonzalez and Trent Green show happened... and they RE-STOLE our hearts... and then the Colts happened again in 2003.

Two more years of hope and bullshit. Dick Vermiel finally ****ing leaves. And leaves us old as shit and 5 shitty drafts in a row.

Oh yay! Mediocre Herman Edwards comes to town. Yippee ****ing do. He sucks with the Jets, NEVER better than 10-6. And he is to be our savior? Dude SUCKS.

So, Herm has a decent offense... but it gets shelfed for shit ball. So,then again in 2006, we play the MOTHER ****ING COLTS in the playoffs off again. This time IN THEIR HOME, the Dome. Maybe we can piss on their parades?

Nope.

With Herm's shitabulous field goal extravangza offense, it is painful to watch.

Plus, factor in that we have been dealing with Gunther since 1995. Maybe this defense works... but if not... Gunther has to go. Carl is a fairly loyal person. He sticks with shit for too long... buddy system bullshit.

Carl, we are fed up with your bullshit. We are fed up with your mockery. You raise ticket prices around here like you are some king shit pimp.

Get the **** out of town, and stay the **** off the Ring of Honor.

[Reerun_KC]

People... this isn't a ONE year thing.

This fan base has been worn out since Montana left town. And, that was the last real hope for our franchise. If Montana had come back for 95... and Carl hadn't fired Nick Lowery. Oh, the magical memories we could have shared.

But no. Bono and Elliot ruin it. Then we lose to the Donkos... in 1997. Neil Smith goes to the Broncos and wins a ****ing Superbowl. Bong Morris and Gunther as head coach is what we get. And more Carl. Arrghh

Derrick Thomas' death gave a real blow to the fan base of the Chiefs.

Then a resurgence with the Priest Holmes, Tony Gonzalez and Trent Green show happened... and they RE-STOLE our hearts... and then the Colts happened again in 2003.

Two more years of hope and bullshit. Dick Vermiel finally ****ing leaves. And leaves us old as shit and 5 shitty drafts in a row.

Oh yay! Mediocre Herman Edwards comes to town. Yippee ****ing do. He sucks with the Jets, NEVER better than 10-6. And he is to be our savior? Dude SUCKS.

So, Herm has a decent offense... but it gets shelfed for shit ball. So,then again in 2006, we play the MOTHER ****ING COLTS in the playoffs off again. This time IN THEIR HOME, the Dome. Maybe we can piss on their parades?

Nope.

With Herm's shitabulous field goal extravangza offense, it is painful to watch.

Plus, factor in that we have been dealing with Gunther since 1995. Maybe this defense works... but if not... Gunther has to go. Carl is a fairly loyal person. He sticks with shit for too long... buddy system bullshit.

Carl, we are fed up with your bullshit. We are fed up with your mockery. You raise ticket prices around here like you are some king shit pimp.

Get the **** out of town, and stay the **** off the Ring of Honor.


That was outstanding!

Rep!

[Skip Towne]

People... this isn't a ONE year thing.

This fan base has been worn out since Montana left town. And, that was the last real hope for our franchise. If Montana had come back for 95... and Carl hadn't fired Nick Lowery. Oh, the magical memories we could have shared.

But no. Bono and Elliot ruin it. Then we lose to the Donkos... in 1997. Neil Smith goes to the Broncos and wins a ****ing Superbowl. Bong Morris and Gunther as head coach is what we get. And more Carl. Arrghh

Derrick Thomas' death gave a real blow to the fan base of the Chiefs.

Then a resurgence with the Priest Holmes, Tony Gonzalez and Trent Green show happened... and they RE-STOLE our hearts... and then the Colts happened again in 2003.

Two more years of hope and bullshit. Dick Vermiel finally ****ing leaves. And leaves us old as shit and 5 shitty drafts in a row.

Oh yay! Mediocre Herman Edwards comes to town. Yippee ****ing do. He sucks with the Jets, NEVER better than 10-6. And he is to be our savior? Dude SUCKS.

So, Herm has a decent offense... but it gets shelfed for shit ball. So,then again in 2006, we play the MOTHER ****ING COLTS in the playoffs off again. This time IN THEIR HOME, the Dome. Maybe we can piss on their parades?

Nope.

With Herm's shitabulous field goal extravangza offense, it is painful to watch.

Plus, factor in that we have been dealing with Gunther since 1995. Maybe this defense works... but if not... Gunther has to go. Carl is a fairly loyal person. He sticks with shit for too long... buddy system bullshit.

Carl, we are fed up with your bullshit. We are fed up with your mockery. You raise ticket prices around here like you are some king shit pimp.

Get the **** out of town, and stay the **** off the Ring of Honor.

Quality rant!

[Reerun_KC]

"Herm's shitabulous field goal extravangza offense"

That is ****ing funny! ROFL

[Hammock Parties]

I'm really tired of people saying Herm destroyed the Chiefs' offense.

The talent was already going downhill. Solari was Carl's choice as OC.

Herm is essentially blameless for the current state of the offense. Now if we suck on offense the next three years, he gets blame.

[Reerun_KC]

I'm really tired of people saying Herm destroyed the Chiefs' offense.

The talent was already going downhill. Solari was Carl's choice as OC.

Herm is essentially blameless for the current state of the offense. Now if we suck on offense the next three years, he gets blame.


Regardless, Herm has never had an offense during his HC career that was worth a shit anyways.. So the arguement is a moot point.

[King_Chief_Fan]

I'm really tired of people saying Herm destroyed the Chiefs' offense.

The talent was already going downhill. Solari was Carl's choice as OC.

Herm is essentially blameless for the current state of the offense. Now if we suck on offense the next three years, he gets blame.

you have no credibility with your comments. One day you bash him, the next day you try to show your boss that you are on Herm's good side. If you are tired of hearing about Herm from us haters, quit coming here. There is nothing you will say that will change the more intelligent minds.

[Skip Towne]

you have no credibility with your comments. One day you bash him, the next day you try to show your boss that you are on Herm's good side. If you are tired of hearing about Herm from us haters, quit coming here. There is nothing you will say that will change the more intelligent minds.

Exactly right.

[Hammock Parties]

you have no credibility with your comments. One day you bash him, the next day you try to show your boss that you are on Herm's good side.

That's a load of crap.

[chasedude]

Wow, for once I maybe able to afford a ticket and see a game this year. I've always enjoyed everyone's antics on here and really wanted to meet some of you in person, come drink your beer and eat your food during tailgates. With so many fans jumping off who will be at the game to meet? Guess I'll just have to wait for Nzoner's next party.

[mikey23545]

Jeebus, BRC, you are one of the whiniest little vaginas I've ever seen...

[Reerun_KC]

Jeebus, BRC, you are one of the whiniest little vaginas I've ever seen...
Your quickly passing him..

Do you have to whine about everyones posts you disagree with?

Then neg rep them?

[morphius]

Sweet, now if I can go to a game and tailgate all alone, yipee!!!

You guys all suck. :D

[Chiefnj2]

Herm is essentially blameless for the current state of the offense. Now if we suck on offense the next three years, he gets blame.

Bullshit. He's the damned head coach. He dictated a conservative approach to the game.

[Hammock Parties]

Bullshit. He's the damned head coach. He dictated a conservative approach to the game.

So? It was warranted considering the state of the line.

[StcChief]

Herm's days of a free pass are dwindling fast....

[Chiefnj2]

So? It was warranted considering the state of the line.

God knows we don't want no circus or arena ball.

[Fish]

I'm really tired of people saying Herm destroyed the Chiefs' offense.

The talent was already going downhill. Solari was Carl's choice as OC.

Herm is essentially blameless for the current state of the offense. Now if we suck on offense the next three years, he gets blame.

Absolutely.

I hate to see Herm come to this team and try to change things, only to become the focus of fan frustration that built up for years and years before Herm was ever a part of the franchise. The guy isn't a rocket surgeon by any means, but he's trying a different approach other than what hasn't worked for the last decade.

And fans continue to point to his time with the Jets as justification for future suckatude... like people remember Belichick's record before he came to NE and changed that franchise. Not saying Herm is Bill by any means, but to say a coach can't improve because of prior coaching record is just silly.

Bill Belichick

<table class="sortable stats_table small_text" id="coaching_results"><tbody> <tr style="" onmouseover="hl(this);" onmouseout="uhl(this);" class=""> <td align="left">1992 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1992/)</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left">Cleveland Browns (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/1992.htm)</td> <td align="left">NFL</td> <td align="right">16 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/1992_games.htm)</td> <td align="right">7</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
</td><td align="right">9</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">.438</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left">
</td> </tr> <tr style="" onmouseover="hl(this);" onmouseout="uhl(this);" class=""> <td align="left">1993 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1993/)</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left">Cleveland Browns (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/1993.htm)</td> <td align="left">NFL</td> <td align="right">16 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/1993_games.htm)</td> <td align="right">7</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
</td><td align="right">9</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">.438</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left">
</td> </tr> <tr style="" onmouseover="hl(this);" onmouseout="uhl(this);" class=""> <td align="left">1994 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1994/)</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left">Cleveland Browns (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/1994.htm)</td> <td align="left">NFL</td> <td align="right">16 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/1994_games.htm)</td> <td align="right">11</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
</td><td align="right">5</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">.688</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left">
</td> </tr> <tr style="" onmouseover="hl(this);" onmouseout="uhl(this);" class=""> <td align="left">1995 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1995/)</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left">Cleveland Browns (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/1995.htm)</td> <td align="left">NFL</td> <td align="right">16 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/1995_games.htm)</td> <td align="right">5</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
</td><td align="right">11</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">.313</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left">
</td> </tr> <tr style="" onmouseover="hl(this);" onmouseout="uhl(this);" class=""> <td align="left">2000 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2000/)</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left">New England Patriots (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/2000.htm)</td> <td align="left">NFL</td> <td align="right">16 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/2000_games.htm)</td> <td align="right">5</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
</td><td align="right">11</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">.313</td> </tr></tbody></table>

And this isn't saying anything towards BRC's choice to cancel his ST status. Statements like his are absolutely necessary for the future of the franchise. But to turn his ST decision into Herm bashing is unwarranted IMO.

[Brock]

He's doing a pretty good job of building the team for the next guy, so at least there's that.

[little jacob]

herm apologists? is there such a thing?

i dumped mine after carl got an extension and herm was hired. best decision ever. well, the best would have been never to get them in the first place. since i wasted all that money for 0 playoff wins.

[Chiefnj2]

BRC,

Thank you for your letter and your compliments regarding my draft choices in recent years. I too am very excited about my draft picks. The team, me in particular, worked very hard this offseason scouting personnel that other GM's didn't take the time to consider.

I'm sorry that you will not be renewing your season tickets, however there is still a long waiting list and your seats will be assigned out immediately. Did you know that under my tutelege the Chiefs were one of the winningiest teams in the 90's? That's right. Some real fans still appreciate the competitive nature of this team and find season tickets to be a bargain.

I hope that once the new Arrowhead facility is completed that you rethink your position toward season tickets. Children don't mind paying student loans and family vacations last but a week. A season ticket is a gift that keeps on giving for 5 months and you don't run the risk that your child will become impregnated at some kegger.

The front office wishes you the best on your single game excursions to Arrowhead this year. Remember to shop on the expanded concourse.

Sincerely,

Uncle Carl

PS: Enclosed please find a $500 season ticket cancellation fee payable within 30 days.

[Reerun_KC]

Absolutely.

I hate to see Herm come to this team and try to change things, only to become the focus of fan frustration that built up for years and years before Herm was ever a part of the franchise. The guy isn't a rocket surgeon by any means, but he's trying a different approach other than what hasn't worked for the last decade.

And fans continue to point to his time with the Jets as justification for future suckatude... like people remember Belichick's record before he came to NE and changed that franchise. Not saying Herm is Bill by any means, but to say a coach can't improve because of prior coaching record is just silly.

Bill Belichick

<TABLE class="sortable stats_table small_text" id=coaching_results><TBODY><TR class="" onmouseover=hl(this); onmouseout=uhl(this);><TD align=left>1992 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1992/)</TD><TD align=right>

</TD><TD align=left>Cleveland Browns (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/1992.htm)</TD><TD align=left>NFL</TD><TD align=right>16 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/1992_games.htm)</TD><TD align=right>7</TD><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top">

</TD><TD align=right>9</TD><TD align=right>

</TD><TD align=right>.438</TD><TD align=right>

</TD><TD align=right>

</TD><TD align=right>

</TD><TD align=right>

</TD><TD align=right>

</TD><TD align=left>

</TD></TR><TR class="" onmouseover=hl(this); onmouseout=uhl(this);><TD align=left>1993 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1993/)</TD><TD align=right>

</TD><TD align=left>Cleveland Browns (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/1993.htm)</TD><TD align=left>NFL</TD><TD align=right>16 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/1993_games.htm)</TD><TD align=right>7</TD><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top">

</TD><TD align=right>9</TD><TD align=right>

</TD><TD align=right>.438</TD><TD align=right>

</TD><TD align=right>

</TD><TD align=right>

</TD><TD align=right>

</TD><TD align=right>

</TD><TD align=left>

</TD></TR><TR class="" onmouseover=hl(this); onmouseout=uhl(this);><TD align=left>1994 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1994/)</TD><TD align=right>

</TD><TD align=left>Cleveland Browns (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/1994.htm)</TD><TD align=left>NFL</TD><TD align=right>16 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/1994_games.htm)</TD><TD align=right>11</TD><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top">

</TD><TD align=right>5</TD><TD align=right>

</TD><TD align=right>.688</TD><TD align=right>

</TD><TD align=right>

</TD><TD align=right>

</TD><TD align=right>

</TD><TD align=right>

</TD><TD align=left>

</TD></TR><TR class="" onmouseover=hl(this); onmouseout=uhl(this);><TD align=left>1995 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1995/)</TD><TD align=right>

</TD><TD align=left>Cleveland Browns (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/1995.htm)</TD><TD align=left>NFL</TD><TD align=right>16 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/1995_games.htm)</TD><TD align=right>5</TD><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top">

</TD><TD align=right>11</TD><TD align=right>

</TD><TD align=right>.313</TD><TD align=right>

</TD><TD align=right>

</TD><TD align=right>

</TD><TD align=right>

</TD><TD align=right>

</TD><TD align=left>

</TD></TR><TR class="" onmouseover=hl(this); onmouseout=uhl(this);><TD align=left>2000 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2000/)</TD><TD align=right>

</TD><TD align=left>New England Patriots (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/2000.htm)</TD><TD align=left>NFL</TD><TD align=right>16 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/2000_games.htm)</TD><TD align=right>5</TD><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top">

</TD><TD align=right>11</TD><TD align=right>

</TD><TD align=right>.313</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

And this isn't saying anything towards BRC's choice to cancel his ST status. Statements like his are absolutely necessary for the future of the franchise. But to turn his ST decision into Herm bashing is unwarranted IMO.


KC Fishy, The frustration from the fans towards Herm is the fact that Herm wants to build this team into what is flustrating for the fans. This is 2008 not 1988, We want TD's not Herms Field Goal Extravaganza on game days..

We dont want to go back to the as you put it, years and years of frustration. Yet when game day arrives, we are all flustrated at the end of the day.

[Reerun_KC]

He's doing a pretty good job of building the team for the next guy, so at least there's that.
That is what keeping alot of fans lingering around. We know that in 2010 we will have a new GM and coaching staff. This will give the Chiefs fans many reasons to celebrate and ST sales will skyrocket....

[Skip Towne]

KC Fishy, The frustration from the fans towards Herm is the fact that Herm wants to build this team into what is flustrating for the fans. This is 2008 not 1988, We want TD's not Herms Field Goal Extravaganza on game days..

We dont want to go back to the as you put it, years and years of frustration. Yet when game day arrives, we are all flustrated at the end of the day.
Even in 1988 they didn't take a knee with 1 1/2 minutes left in the half.

[StcChief]

The guy isn't a rocket surgeon by any means,
is that one of those new fangled jobs. LMAO

[HemiEd]

I'm really tired of people saying Herm destroyed the Chiefs' offense.

The talent was already going downhill. Solari was Carl's choice as OC.

Herm is essentially blameless for the current state of the offense. Now if we suck on offense the next three years, he gets blame.

ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

[HemiEd]

Jeebus, BRC, you are one of the whiniest little vaginas I've ever seen...

You have obviously not SEEN BRC, he is not little.

[Skip Towne]

You have obviously not SEEN BRC, he is not little.

BRC makes Tony G. look small.

[Fish]

KC Fishy, The frustration from the fans towards Herm is the fact that Herm wants to build this team into what is flustrating for the fans. This is 2008 not 1988, We want TD's not Herms Field Goal Extravaganza on game days..

We dont want to go back to the as you put it, years and years of frustration. Yet when game day arrives, we are all flustrated at the end of the day.

Herm wants to build this team into a young physical no-gimmick offense that practices ball control with a stuff-it-down-the-throat running game and balanced passing game. Herm and Chan have both said they will adapt the offense to the abilities of the players we have, instead of making them play a style of offense that doesn't suit the players' strong points. Are you saying the fans are frustrated with that? If so... why?

I find it mind boggling that fans honestly think Herm would rather have field goals than a touchdown. Playing ball control, field position offense is not equivalent to a Field Goal Extravaganza.

[HemiEd]

BRC makes Tony G. look small.

Yep, I was hoping Hermie would give him a shot at a OL position last year.

[Fish]

Jeebus, BRC, you are one of the whiniest little vaginas I've ever seen...

I'd love to see you make that comment face to face.

BRC has more class than to let someone like you get to him with posts like yours, but you should know that he could fold you up and stuff you in a shoebox if he really wanted to.

[Reerun_KC]

Herm wants to build this team into a young physical no-gimmick offense that practices ball control with a stuff-it-down-the-throat running game and balanced passing game. Herm and Chan have both said they will adapt the offense to the abilities of the players we have, instead of making them play a style of offense that doesn't suit the players' strong points. Are you saying the fans are frustrated with that? If so... why?

I find it mind boggling that fans honestly think Herm would rather have field goals than a touchdown. Playing ball control, field position offense is not equivalent to a Field Goal Extravaganza.

Wow I dont have the time to list out the "why's" in this reply today... I will try and get back to you later tonight on this one.. Have to go fly....

[mlyonsd]

Nice letter BRC. Valid on all points and shows the pain and hardships of being a Chief fan.

[Brock]

I got rid of my tickets after 2003. It just got so damn predictable after 20 years.

[Skip Towne]

God knows we don't want no circus or arena ball.

Just take a knee. It's the only safe thing to do.

[Hammock Parties]

I got rid of my tickets after 2003. It just got so damn predictable after 20 years.

Do I detect a hint of sadness?

[Hammock Parties]

ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

Instead of just throwing smilies you could attempt to address the post.

How can anyone possibly blame Herm? He didn't make Roaf retire. He didn't crack Green on the noggin. Solari wasn't his choice. He didn't decide to try and squeeze one more year out of Welbourn, Turley and Wiegmann. He didn't injure Bennett, forcing Larry to take 416 carries. He didn't tear out Kennison's hamstring.

He did bring us Bowe, however.

Herm got stuck with crap talent on offense. If we're still stuck in the 20's two years from now I'll start blaming him for the offense.

[BigRedChief]

Jeebus, BRC, you are one of the whiniest little vaginas I've ever seen...
WTF!:eek: Did I nail your sister or something? I don't remember ever having any negative conversations with you and you pull this shit out of no where?

If I'm such a horrible poster then I would suggest that you make use of the ignore option. And if you ever post something like this again..........

[BigRedChief]

Sweet, now if I can go to a game and tailgate all alone, yipee!!!

You guys all suck. :D
You haven't made it by the tailgate since....wasn't it Dafaces last game before he left to go work with Rainman? You, Daface, Guru, Slag? Am I remembering that correctly?

Are you actually going to make it out to a game this year? If so which one and I'll have the tailgate set up and invite the Planet to the party.

[Brock]

\And if you ever post something like this again..........

Yes?

[BigRedChief]

I got rid of my tickets after 2003. It just got so damn predictable after 20 years.
I think a lot of hard core fans have moved on. Its just a sad thing. :shake:

[007]

You haven't made it by the tailgate since....wasn't it Dafaces last game before he left to go work with Rainman? You, Daface, Guru, Slag? Am I remembering that correctly?

Are you actually going to make it out to a game this year? If so which one and I'll have the tailgate set up and invite the Planet to the party.

Unless something changes, I will be stopping by at the home opener.

[Bowser]

I'LL NEVER SEE MY COOLER AGAIN!!!


We came this >< close to not getting tix this year, but went ahead and splurged. Even if the Chiefs do start to turn around, it's starting to get to the point where it's hard to justify the cost anymore (OK, it's past that point, but you know what I mean). It's a hell of a lot easier to go spend 75-100 bucks at your favorite sports bar than the hundreds that get spent every Sunday when you factor in tix, food, parking, and beverages (plus no cleanup of gear later). It may well come to the point where we go just to tailgate a couple of games, and stay in the parking lot the whole time.

[Bowser]

And I think we'll make a point to come have a couple of pops with you at the opener, BRC, if not just throw in with you guys and make a big(ger) bash of it. Sounds like you have a number of Planeteers coming by.

[Bowser]

And I've killed the thread.

[BigRedChief]

I'LL NEVER SEE MY COOLER AGAIN!!!


We came this >< close to not getting tix this year, but went ahead and splurged. Even if the Chiefs do start to turn around, it's starting to get to the point where it's hard to justify the cost anymore (OK, it's past that point, but you know what I mean). It's a hell of a lot easier to go spend 75-100 bucks at your favorite sports bar than the hundreds that get spent every Sunday when you factor in tix, food, parking, and beverages (plus no cleanup of gear later). It may well come to the point where we go just to tailgate a couple of games, and stay in the parking lot the whole time.
I still have that cooler.

[Nzoner]

I'LL NEVER SEE MY COOLER AGAIN!!!


We came this >< close to not getting tix this year, but went ahead and splurged. Even if the Chiefs do start to turn around, it's starting to get to the point where it's hard to justify the cost anymore (OK, it's past that point, but you know what I mean). It's a hell of a lot easier to go spend 75-100 bucks at your favorite sports bar than the hundreds that get spent every Sunday when you factor in tix, food, parking, and beverages (plus no cleanup of gear later). It may well come to the point where we go just to tailgate a couple of games, and stay in the parking lot the whole time.

I took my season ticket money and invested it in additional fantasy football leagues.I get to see quality football because I'm watching all the games and so far I've parlayed it into additional cash winnings so I'm far and ahead then when I was going to Arrowhead. :)

[Bearcat]

Not saying Herm is Bill by any means, but to say a coach can't improve because of prior coaching record is just silly.



Not to completely hijack, but in order to improve, you have to be willing to change. Not just change players and playcalling, but change philosophies so you can get ahead of the curve and have a distinct advantage over the competition.

Herm hasn't updated his philosophy to match the '80s much less get ahead of today's curve. Maybe Bill was the same way when he was with Cleveland, but I don't see Herm changing the way he sees the game. IMO, he'll always be a coach that keeps both teams in the game, because of his philosophy that the most you can possibly do is have a chance to win at the end. It's the 50/50 philosophy, which doesn't work when you want to win more than one or two playoff games.[/hijack]

[Reerun_KC]

Not to completely hijack, but in order to improve, you have to be willing to change. Not just change players and playcalling, but change philosophies so you can get ahead of the curve and have a distinct advantage over the competition.

Herm hasn't updated his philosophy to match the '80s much less get ahead of today's curve. Maybe Bill was the same way when he was with Cleveland, but I don't see Herm changing the way he sees the game. IMO, he'll always be a coach that keeps both teams in the game, because of his philosophy that the most you can possibly do is have a chance to win at the end. It's the 50/50 philosophy, which doesn't work when you want to win more than one or two playoff games.[/hijack]


KC Fish, Big Daddy Bearcat summed it up very nicely...

Herm will always be the square peg in the round hole...

[teedubya]

Instead of just throwing smilies you could attempt to address the post.

How can anyone possibly blame Herm? He didn't make Roaf retire. He didn't crack Green on the noggin. Solari wasn't his choice. He didn't decide to try and squeeze one more year out of Welbourn, Turley and Wiegmann. He didn't injure Bennett, forcing Larry to take 416 carries. He didn't tear out Kennison's hamstring.

He did bring us Bowe, however.

Herm got stuck with crap talent on offense. If we're still stuck in the 20's two years from now I'll start blaming him for the offense.


HERM WARFARE!!1

[Sully]

Absolutely.

I hate to see Herm come to this team and try to change things, only to become the focus of fan frustration that built up for years and years before Herm was ever a part of the franchise. The guy isn't a rocket surgeon by any means, but he's trying a different approach other than what hasn't worked for the last decade.

And fans continue to point to his time with the Jets as justification for future suckatude... like people remember Belichick's record before he came to NE and changed that franchise. Not saying Herm is Bill by any means, but to say a coach can't improve because of prior coaching record is just silly.

Bill Belichick

<table class="sortable stats_table small_text" id="coaching_results"><tbody> <tr style="" onmouseover="hl(this);" onmouseout="uhl(this);" class=""> <td align="left">1992 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1992/)</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left">Cleveland Browns (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/1992.htm)</td> <td align="left">NFL</td> <td align="right">16 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/1992_games.htm)</td> <td align="right">7</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
</td><td align="right">9</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">.438</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left">
</td> </tr> <tr style="" onmouseover="hl(this);" onmouseout="uhl(this);" class=""> <td align="left">1993 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1993/)</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left">Cleveland Browns (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/1993.htm)</td> <td align="left">NFL</td> <td align="right">16 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/1993_games.htm)</td> <td align="right">7</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
</td><td align="right">9</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">.438</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left">
</td> </tr> <tr style="" onmouseover="hl(this);" onmouseout="uhl(this);" class=""> <td align="left">1994 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1994/)</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left">Cleveland Browns (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/1994.htm)</td> <td align="left">NFL</td> <td align="right">16 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/1994_games.htm)</td> <td align="right">11</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
</td><td align="right">5</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">.688</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left">
</td> </tr> <tr style="" onmouseover="hl(this);" onmouseout="uhl(this);" class=""> <td align="left">1995 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1995/)</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left">Cleveland Browns (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/1995.htm)</td> <td align="left">NFL</td> <td align="right">16 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/1995_games.htm)</td> <td align="right">5</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
</td><td align="right">11</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">.313</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left">
</td> </tr> <tr style="" onmouseover="hl(this);" onmouseout="uhl(this);" class=""> <td align="left">2000 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2000/)</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left">New England Patriots (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/2000.htm)</td> <td align="left">NFL</td> <td align="right">16 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/2000_games.htm)</td> <td align="right">5</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
</td><td align="right">11</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">.313</td> </tr></tbody></table>

And this isn't saying anything towards BRC's choice to cancel his ST status. Statements like his are absolutely necessary for the future of the franchise. But to turn his ST decision into Herm bashing is unwarranted IMO.

I'm just finishing a book about Belichick that is amazing. The problem with simply looking at his record in Cleveland and NE early is it completely ignores the man's history, as well as the circumstances surrounding his years in Cleveland.
Belichick's entire life was a buildup to him being a great coach, including years and years of toiling for nearly no money building his resume and his knowledge of the game. Herm didn't even want to coach before he was begged to come work by Dungy. He wanted to scout. So far, it seems he would've been great at that job. As a coach, he may improve, but up till now, no one is impressed.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

This offense was headed down the shitter no matter who took over. Terrible drafts left this team with absolute crap depth wise on the offensive side of the ball. Once Roaf and Shields left and Trent's brain got scrambled this offense was doomed.

[DaFace]

You haven't made it by the tailgate since....wasn't it Dafaces last game before he left to go work with Rainman? You, Daface, Guru, Slag? Am I remembering that correctly?

Are you actually going to make it out to a game this year? If so which one and I'll have the tailgate set up and invite the Planet to the party.

Damn...you've got a good memory!

[BigRedChief]

Damn...you've got a good memory!
Nahhhh.....We ran out of jaggerbombs early.:)

[007]

Nahhhh.....We ran out of jaggerbombs early.:)
But, at least we did get some before you ran out.:D

[Buehler445]

I'm really tired of people saying Herm destroyed the Chiefs' offense.

The talent was already going downhill. Solari was Carl's choice as OC.

Herm is essentially blameless for the current state of the offense. Now if we suck on offense the next three years, he gets blame.

OK, Clayton, I'll play. Do you know when I stopped liking Herman ****ING Edwards?

It was the Indy game last year. Tie ball game 4 minutes left. Its 3rd and 12. Herman ****ING Edwards runs a goddamned mother****ing DRAW PLAY for 2 yards. 2 mother ****ing yards!!! TWO! Jesus ****ing Christ!!!! Herman ****ING Edwards decided to PUNT to PEYTON MANNING with the game on the line. You have to at least TRY to get a first down. You have to. As a result, Peyton then did what Peyton does and took the clock down to nothing and won the ballgame.

That is a bullshit play call and everyone in the NFL knows it except for Herman ****ING Edwards. You have to at least TRY to win the ballgame. You've got a young kid with a rocket arm, A badass WR that will fight for the ball and a HOF TE. See what the kid can do. If he gets a sack, so what? Tell Colquit to kick it further. YOU HAVE TO TRY. There isn't a defense in the NFL that I would be comfortable punting to Peyton Manning with the game on the line. Not one. ESPECIALLY not ours. The D had played admirably to that point, but you just can't expect a D to hold that kind of offensive machine. Its not fair to them and especially not fair to the offense that you won't even try!

Those things you say are true, but this team cannot win if Herm continues to play beyond-conservative football. I don't care how well he drafts, plays the young kids, gives cliche answers in press conferences, if he won't nut up and try to win a ballgame, this team is going ****ing NOWHERE.

That is why I don't like Herman ****ING Edwards and do not trust him with the offense.

JMO

[Pasta Little Brioni]

OK, Clayton, I'll play. Do you know when I stopped liking Herman ****ING Edwards?

It was the Indy game last year. Tie ball game 4 minutes left. Its 3rd and 12. Herman ****ING Edwards runs a goddamned mother****ing DRAW PLAY for 2 yards. 2 mother ****ing yards!!! TWO! Jesus ****ing Christ!!!! Herman ****ING Edwards decided to PUNT to PEYTON MANNING with the game on the line. You have to at least TRY to get a first down. You have to. As a result, Peyton then did what Peyton does and took the clock down to nothing and won the ballgame.

That is a bullshit play call and everyone in the NFL knows it except for Herman ****ING Edwards. You have to at least TRY to win the ballgame. You've got a young kid with a rocket arm, A badass WR that will fight for the ball and a HOF TE. See what the kid can do. If he gets a sack, so what? Tell Colquit to kick it further. YOU HAVE TO TRY. There isn't a defense in the NFL that I would be comfortable punting to Peyton Manning with the game on the line. Not one. ESPECIALLY not ours. The D had played admirably to that point, but you just can't expect a D to hold that kind of offensive machine. Its not fair to them and especially not fair to the offense that you won't even try!

Those things you say are true, but this team cannot win if Herm continues to play beyond-conservative football. I don't care how well he drafts, plays the young kids, gives cliche answers in press conferences, if he won't nut up and try to win a ballgame, this team is going ****ing NOWHERE.

That is why I don't like Herman ****ING Edwards and do not trust him with the offense.

JMO

Ok, this is a fair enough criticism. Pretty dumb to try and play it safe with Peyton on the other sideline.

[007]

OK, Clayton, I'll play. Do you know when I stopped liking Herman ****ING Edwards?

It was the Indy game last year. Tie ball game 4 minutes left. Its 3rd and 12. Herman ****ING Edwards runs a goddamned mother****ing DRAW PLAY for 2 yards. 2 mother ****ing yards!!! TWO! Jesus ****ing Christ!!!! Herman ****ING Edwards decided to PUNT to PEYTON MANNING with the game on the line. You have to at least TRY to get a first down. You have to. As a result, Peyton then did what Peyton does and took the clock down to nothing and won the ballgame.

That is a bullshit play call and everyone in the NFL knows it except for Herman ****ING Edwards. You have to at least TRY to win the ballgame. You've got a young kid with a rocket arm, A badass WR that will fight for the ball and a HOF TE. See what the kid can do. If he gets a sack, so what? Tell Colquit to kick it further. YOU HAVE TO TRY. There isn't a defense in the NFL that I would be comfortable punting to Peyton Manning with the game on the line. Not one. ESPECIALLY not ours. The D had played admirably to that point, but you just can't expect a D to hold that kind of offensive machine. Its not fair to them and especially not fair to the offense that you won't even try!

Those things you say are true, but this team cannot win if Herm continues to play beyond-conservative football. I don't care how well he drafts, plays the young kids, gives cliche answers in press conferences, if he won't nut up and try to win a ballgame, this team is going ****ing NOWHERE.

That is why I don't like Herman ****ING Edwards and do not trust him with the offense.

JMO
:clap::clap:

[Skip Towne]

OK, Clayton, I'll play. Do you know when I stopped liking Herman ****ING Edwards?

It was the Indy game last year. Tie ball game 4 minutes left. Its 3rd and 12. Herman ****ING Edwards runs a goddamned mother****ing DRAW PLAY for 2 yards. 2 mother ****ing yards!!! TWO! Jesus ****ing Christ!!!! Herman ****ING Edwards decided to PUNT to PEYTON MANNING with the game on the line. You have to at least TRY to get a first down. You have to. As a result, Peyton then did what Peyton does and took the clock down to nothing and won the ballgame.

That is a bullshit play call and everyone in the NFL knows it except for Herman ****ING Edwards. You have to at least TRY to win the ballgame. You've got a young kid with a rocket arm, A badass WR that will fight for the ball and a HOF TE. See what the kid can do. If he gets a sack, so what? Tell Colquit to kick it further. YOU HAVE TO TRY. There isn't a defense in the NFL that I would be comfortable punting to Peyton Manning with the game on the line. Not one. ESPECIALLY not ours. The D had played admirably to that point, but you just can't expect a D to hold that kind of offensive machine. Its not fair to them and especially not fair to the offense that you won't even try!

Those things you say are true, but this team cannot win if Herm continues to play beyond-conservative football. I don't care how well he drafts, plays the young kids, gives cliche answers in press conferences, if he won't nut up and try to win a ballgame, this team is going ****ing NOWHERE.

That is why I don't like Herman ****ING Edwards and do not trust him with the offense.

JMO

Exactly right. Herm is not a Head Coach. He needs to be a scout type guy.

[DaneMcCloud]

OK, Clayton, I'll play. Do you know when I stopped liking Herman ****ING Edwards?

It was the Indy game last year. Tie ball game 4 minutes left. Its 3rd and 12. Herman ****ING Edwards runs a goddamned mother****ing DRAW PLAY for 2 yards. 2 mother ****ing yards!!! TWO! Jesus ****ing Christ!!!! Herman ****ING Edwards decided to PUNT to PEYTON MANNING with the game on the line. You have to at least TRY to get a first down. You have to. As a result, Peyton then did what Peyton does and took the clock down to nothing and won the ballgame.

That is a bullshit play call and everyone in the NFL knows it except for Herman ****ING Edwards. You have to at least TRY to win the ballgame. You've got a young kid with a rocket arm, A badass WR that will fight for the ball and a HOF TE. See what the kid can do. If he gets a sack, so what? Tell Colquit to kick it further. YOU HAVE TO TRY. There isn't a defense in the NFL that I would be comfortable punting to Peyton Manning with the game on the line. Not one. ESPECIALLY not ours. The D had played admirably to that point, but you just can't expect a D to hold that kind of offensive machine. Its not fair to them and especially not fair to the offense that you won't even try!

Those things you say are true, but this team cannot win if Herm continues to play beyond-conservative football. I don't care how well he drafts, plays the young kids, gives cliche answers in press conferences, if he won't nut up and try to win a ballgame, this team is going ****ing NOWHERE.

That is why I don't like Herman ****ING Edwards and do not trust him with the offense.

JMO

Yeah. Nice post.:rolleyes:

Unlike all the other sheep around here, I don't think Brodie Croyle has proven jackshit. He hasn't proven in more than 6 games that he can "laser" a ball in the right place under pressure, he hasn't proven he can lead a team to victory and he hasn't proven that he's worth more than a pimple on my ****ing ass.

Herm Edwards conservative coaching is what kept the Chiefs in the game.

Though I'm sure that all you whiney ass dumb ****ing bitches would have liked it better if the Chiefs had lost 49-0.

[teedubya]

BRC got this hate party started!! Nice!

[RustShack]

Well if you want to give tickets away, I'll gladly take them off your hands. Also by the sound of the of this letter you sound pretty wealthy, you make a little donation to another Chiefs fan :p

[Buehler445]

Yeah. Nice post.:rolleyes:

Unlike all the other sheep around here, I don't think Brodie Croyle has proven jackshit. He hasn't proven in more than 6 games that he can "laser" a ball in the right place under pressure, he hasn't proven he can lead a team to victory and he hasn't proven that he's worth more than a pimple on my ****ing ass.

Herm Edwards conservative coaching is what kept the Chiefs in the game.

Though I'm sure that all you whiney ass dumb ****ing bitches would have liked it better if the Chiefs had lost 49-0.

I didn't say anything about the rest of the game. But Peyton Manning wins games. You don't just concede to punt to him on third down with the game on the line. Early in the game, yeah, you need to punt, but you can't run a ****ing draw play on third down just so you can get your punter 2 yards closer. Holy shit.

And part of the reason Brodie hasn't shown shit is because Herm won't ****ing let him. We might know something about the kid if he would have put him in a position to win the game. If he blows, then we would know that he had a throw when the pressure was on and blew it. But you have to try. You just have to. I certainly understand your point about putting a lot on a young kid, especially in his first start, but you gotta find out sometime, and you can't expect the D to hold up to the Peyton Manning war machine. There is a time to be conservative, and there is a time to let your guys win (or lose) the game.

[milkman]

Yeah. Nice post.:rolleyes:

Unlike all the other sheep around here, I don't think Brodie Croyle has proven jackshit. He hasn't proven in more than 6 games that he can "laser" a ball in the right place under pressure, he hasn't proven he can lead a team to victory and he hasn't proven that he's worth more than a pimple on my ****ing ass.

Herm Edwards conservative coaching is what kept the Chiefs in the game.

Though I'm sure that all you whiney ass dumb ****ing bitches would have liked it better if the Chiefs had lost 49-0.

Who the **** cares if Brodie Croyle has proven anything?

His post wasn't about Croyle you useless ****ing dumbass.

It was about making the attempt to win a game, and the fact that Herman ****ing Edwards made an attempt to not lose.

[xfactor]

Am I the only one happy to see this finally happen. With the TeePee calling it quits and now BRC folding up the tailgate I will now live longer. It took away many years of my life dancing at the Teepee getting to the point of almost a heart attack, then being topped off by having to walk 20 feet and BRC giving me a "HEART ATTACK ON A BUN." Not to mention BRC giving me the biggest man hugs, I actually know what it feels like to be a pimple being popped cause of these.

In all serious, BRC with you the Tee Pee calling it quits, Weirdwolf retiring and Elvis making the same decsion you have, has completely blown Lot C up into also nothing. You were a huge part of what made that area the very best in the area of tailgating/party in the whole NFL and I've been to 24 NFL stadiums to justify that comment. There was not a better time anywhere in the NFL. Like I told WeirdWolf, go recharge those batteries, relight that fire and we will hold the fort down. In the meantime I will work on my spandex figure walking aimlessly through the parking lot trying to find "THE PARTY" but nothing will every compare to the one you helped make. You defiently will have to give me a hugs to make up for the ones I don't get every game you do decide to come to.

[eazyb81]

It's hard for me to believe that you've been a season ticket holder since 96, yet now is the time you are deciding to give them up. After the last two drafts and our obvious emphasis on youth, this is an exciting time to be a Chiefs fan. No, we're probably not going to win anything this year, but we're rebuilding the right way and it should pay dividends in the future.

If it's a financial decision then I certainly understand your point. Ticket prices have been going up drastically for some time all around the league. That said, it's simple supply and demand, and if you don't pay then apparently someone else will. So, while I definitely understand your dissatisfaction on this issue, I can also see the organization's side as well.

[Fish]

OK, Clayton, I'll play. Do you know when I stopped liking Herman ****ING Edwards?

It was the Indy game last year. Tie ball game 4 minutes left. Its 3rd and 12. Herman ****ING Edwards runs a goddamned mother****ing DRAW PLAY for 2 yards. 2 mother ****ing yards!!! TWO! Jesus ****ing Christ!!!! Herman ****ING Edwards decided to PUNT to PEYTON MANNING with the game on the line. You have to at least TRY to get a first down. You have to. As a result, Peyton then did what Peyton does and took the clock down to nothing and won the ballgame.

That is a bullshit play call and everyone in the NFL knows it except for Herman ****ING Edwards. You have to at least TRY to win the ballgame. You've got a young kid with a rocket arm, A badass WR that will fight for the ball and a HOF TE. See what the kid can do. If he gets a sack, so what? Tell Colquit to kick it further. YOU HAVE TO TRY. There isn't a defense in the NFL that I would be comfortable punting to Peyton Manning with the game on the line. Not one. ESPECIALLY not ours. The D had played admirably to that point, but you just can't expect a D to hold that kind of offensive machine. Its not fair to them and especially not fair to the offense that you won't even try!

Those things you say are true, but this team cannot win if Herm continues to play beyond-conservative football. I don't care how well he drafts, plays the young kids, gives cliche answers in press conferences, if he won't nut up and try to win a ballgame, this team is going ****ing NOWHERE.

That is why I don't like Herman ****ING Edwards and do not trust him with the offense.

JMO

Herman ****ING Edwards didn't call a draw play. Mike ****ing Solari did. Mike ****ing Solari was the offensive coordinator. You know... the offensive coordinator guy that calls offensive plays.... Mike ****ing Solari... who was fired after the season for making those kinds of offensive calls?

:shake:

And the defense had just as much to do with that loss as anything. They had a chance to put the game away, and they blew it hard. Your excuse that there wasn't a defense that could stop Peyton is utter BS. Not fair to the defense to be expected to make a team punt? Sounds like a Vermeil attitude.

[Sfeihc]

Lot C will be a shadow of it's former self for sure. When BRC decides to say "no mas" to season tickets you know the Chiefs are *&$#ed. All the best to you and your family, BRC, hope to cross paths with you sometime this season.

[CoMoChief]

Herman ****ING Edwards didn't call a draw play. Mike ****ing Solari did. Mike ****ing Solari was the offensive coordinator. You know... the offensive coordinator guy that calls offensive plays.... Mike ****ing Solari... who was fired after the season for making those kinds of offensive calls?

:shake:

And the defense had just as much to do with that loss as anything. They had a chance to put the game away, and they blew it hard. Your excuse that there wasn't a defense that could stop Peyton is utter BS. Not fair to the defense to be expected to make a team punt? Sounds like a Vermeil attitude.

Actually to be honest we don't know who called that play.

Solari could have called something else and Herm over rides that call with a play of his own.

Solari couldn't be THAT stupid to run a draw like that with the game on the line. He's been in the NFL too long to know that.

[Brock]

Actually to be honest we don't know who called that play.

Solari could have called something else and Herm over rides that call with a play of his own.

Solari couldn't be THAT stupid to run a draw like that with the game on the line. He's been in the NFL too long to know that.

He hasn't been in the NFL longer than Herm Edwards.

[boogblaster]

I hear ya BRC ... but if possible, go to all the games they need real-fans too ....

[Fish]

Actually to be honest we don't know who called that play.

Solari could have called something else and Herm over rides that call with a play of his own.

Solari couldn't be THAT stupid to run a draw like that with the game on the line. He's been in the NFL too long to know that.

Yeah... We're paying an OC a few million to call offensive plays, but who knows who called that one.... even though Solari was fired for unimaginative playcalling. Which he has admitted to in interviews since then...

[StcChief]

I hear ya BRC ... but if possible, go to all the games they need real-fans too ....all X-STHers have become part time "real" fans..... a game here/there for the Arrowhead experience.
Until Carl is gone and this ship is truly "righted" will it begin to be the same as 90s.

[FAX]

Yeah. Nice post.:rolleyes:

Unlike all the other sheep around here, I don't think Brodie Croyle has proven jackshit. He hasn't proven in more than 6 games that he can "laser" a ball in the right place under pressure, he hasn't proven he can lead a team to victory and he hasn't proven that he's worth more than a pimple on my ****ing ass.

Herm Edwards conservative coaching is what kept the Chiefs in the game.

Though I'm sure that all you whiney ass dumb ****ing bitches would have liked it better if the Chiefs had lost 49-0.

Baa.

FAX

[Chiefnj2]

Herman ****ING Edwards didn't call a draw play. Mike ****ing Solari did. Mike ****ing Solari was the offensive coordinator. You know... the offensive coordinator guy that calls offensive plays.... Mike ****ing Solari... who was fired after the season for making those kinds of offensive calls?

:shake:

And the defense had just as much to do with that loss as anything. They had a chance to put the game away, and they blew it hard. Your excuse that there wasn't a defense that could stop Peyton is utter BS. Not fair to the defense to be expected to make a team punt? Sounds like a Vermeil attitude.


You don't think Herm had an influence on playcalling?

I still recall one of the first preseason games with Herm and Solari and Solari was calling plays aggressively like his predecessor. It didnt' work out well in that preseason game and Herm said something after the game that you'd never see playcalling like that again.

If you don't think Solari was under orders to play for field position on some 3rd and longs you are in denial.

[Buehler445]

Herman ****ING Edwards didn't call a draw play. Mike ****ing Solari did. Mike ****ing Solari was the offensive coordinator. You know... the offensive coordinator guy that calls offensive plays.... Mike ****ing Solari... who was fired after the season for making those kinds of offensive calls?

:shake:

And the defense had just as much to do with that loss as anything. They had a chance to put the game away, and they blew it hard. Your excuse that there wasn't a defense that could stop Peyton is utter BS. Not fair to the defense to be expected to make a team punt? Sounds like a Vermeil attitude.

Yeah, I am not saying Solari was not a tard. He was. But Solari got his strategic guidance from Herm. I remember several times where Herm said they worked together, and he was bringing Solari along.

Moreover, almost every headcoach has involvment in game changing plays. Even Marty, who hardly wore his headphones. If Herm didn't say, woah, "woah, WOAH, we probably shouldn't punt to Peyton Manning with the game on the line," then IMO, its still his bad.

[Fish]

You don't think Herm had an influence on playcalling?

I still recall one of the first preseason games with Herm and Solari and Solari was calling plays aggressively like his predecessor. It didnt' work out well in that preseason game and Herm said something after the game that you'd never see playcalling like that again.

If you don't think Solari was under orders to play for field position on some 3rd and longs you are in denial.

Then why would Solari be fired? Think about it. If he was only under orders from Herm, why was he canned? If that's the style of play that Herm wants, why would he fire somebody who is doing exactly what he wanted him to? If Herm really wanted to put brakes on the offense and strive for field goals, why fire Solari and hire Chan?

I'm not in denial. I'm not claiming Herm does no wrong. I'm just not blaming every negative facet of the game on Herm.

[Fish]

Yeah, I am not saying Solari was not a tard. He was. But Solari got his strategic guidance from Herm. I remember several times where Herm said they worked together, and he was bringing Solari along.

Moreover, almost every headcoach has involvment in game changing plays. Even Marty, who hardly wore his headphones. If Herm didn't say, woah, "woah, WOAH, we probably shouldn't punt to Peyton Manning with the game on the line," then IMO, its still his bad.

Now you're backtracking....

So now it's Herm's fault that he didn't step in and change things to prevent punting to Peyton? Easier said than done.

How about executing the plays? Is it also Herm's fault that the players couldn't execute the plays that were called?

If they would have done that, we likely would have won that game. If the defense would have made a stop in the 4th quarter, we likely would have won. It doesn't make a shit bit of difference what plays were called or who called them if the personnel can't execute it.

[Chiefnj2]

Then why would Solari be fired? Think about it. If he was only under orders from Herm, why was he canned?

Because that is what head coaches do to save their own ass. They fire their coordinators.

[Brock]

Because that is what head coaches do to save their own ass. They fire their coordinators.

Herm wasn't in any danger of being fired.

[BigRedChief]

Am I the only one happy to see this finally happen. With the TeePee calling it quits and now BRC folding up the tailgate I will now live longer. It took away many years of my life dancing at the Teepee getting to the point of almost a heart attack, then being topped off by having to walk 20 feet and BRC giving me a "HEART ATTACK ON A BUN." Not to mention BRC giving me the biggest man hugs, I actually know what it feels like to be a pimple being popped cause of these.

In all serious, BRC with you the Tee Pee calling it quits, Weirdwolf retiring and Elvis making the same decsion you have, has completely blown Lot C up into also nothing. You were a huge part of what made that area the very best in the area of tailgating/party in the whole NFL and I've been to 24 NFL stadiums to justify that comment. There was not a better time anywhere in the NFL. Like I told WeirdWolf, go recharge those batteries, relight that fire and we will hold the fort down. In the meantime I will work on my spandex figure walking aimlessly through the parking lot trying to find "THE PARTY" but nothing will every compare to the one you helped make. You defiently will have to give me a hugs to make up for the ones I don't get every game you do decide to come to.
Thats what I'll miss most is the tailgating and friends built up through the years.
Weirdwolf
FirstDownElvis
Nzoner
Brock
JSPChief
and now me

Thats some seriously hard core Chief fans that have given up their tickets.:shake:

[BigRedChief]

Lot C will be a shadow of it's former self for sure. When BRC decides to say "no mas" to season tickets you know the Chiefs are *&$#ed. All the best to you and your family, BRC, hope to cross paths with you sometime this season.
Lot C was the best place to party/tailgate. It rocked.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Thats what I'll miss most is the tailgating and friends built up through the years.
Weirdwolf
FirstDownElvis
Nzoner
Brock
JSPChief
and now me

Thats some seriously hard core Chief fans that have given up their tickets.:shake:

I guess I'm not "hardcore."

:(

[Bearcat]

Yeah. Nice post.:rolleyes:

Unlike all the other sheep around here, I don't think Brodie Croyle has proven jackshit. He hasn't proven in more than 6 games that he can "laser" a ball in the right place under pressure, he hasn't proven he can lead a team to victory and he hasn't proven that he's worth more than a pimple on my ****ing ass.

Herm Edwards conservative coaching is what kept the Chiefs in the game.

Though I'm sure that all you whiney ass dumb ****ing bitches would have liked it better if the Chiefs had lost 49-0.


This game is one of the more underrated arguments on this board...



I'll give Herm the benefit of the doubt on every play through 3 quarters. After all, even with all the screens and bad playcalling, it's 10-10 and you have a little momentum with the TD.

They basically told Croyle at that point "good drive... pack it up, and we'll see if we can do it again next week".

I could care less about the W-L columns. It's about the decision making. Given that situation with more playmakers and a better OLine, I think Herm would do the same thing. Why do I think that? He SAID IT after the game when he said we were in a defensive game and were waiting for a play at the end.

I'll take the first three quarters... even with all the stupid screens and whatever. If you want to say it kept us in the game, fine, I can deal with that.

But, give me back the two drives in the 4th quarter... especially the one at 14:53.

You drive, score a TD, force the Colts to punt... and then you hand off on first down (again), setting up a screen to Bowe (again), and it's 3rd and 12.

WHAT THE HELL? You JUST drove down the field.

So, you force them to punt again. Hand off (again), pass on 2nd down (again, but 7 yards). First down, hand off... 2nd down, why would Croyle get sacked? How the hell did the Colts know we were going to pass on 2nd and 15? 3rd & 18.

Game over.

We drive down the field and score a touchdown. Force a punt. We fold up. Force a punt. We fold up.

Why is there faith that the philosophy will change when the talent changes, when Herm comes out and says "we were in a defensive game, we were looking for one play at the end"?

Some of you guys sound like it's our first year in the NFL. You all complain about respect and how we made the playoffs last year and how we are a game out of winning the AFC West... yet, we lose, and it's "we're rebuilding, it's a moral victory".

Which one is it?

Like you said, if the philosophy doesn't change when there's more talent, that'll be the time to really be disappointed. I just don't see why it would change. Croyle proves he can drive down the field for the TD, and you put the diapers back on? It was almost like it was practice... good week, Croyle, we'll come back out next week and see if we can do it again... oh wait, there's another quarter to play?

I don't think it's about that for most people... I could care less about the loss as far as the standings. Herm made these sort of choices in big games with the Jets. He made the same decisions in our playoff loss last year, and he's making the same decisions now.

Why is he going to change now? When we have more talent, and we're tied in the 4th, he's going to punt before taking a chance, and give us the 50/50 chance of winning that we've had all year. It's always going to be about one big play. We'll win some games we shouldn't win, and lose some games we should win by 21.

It's hard to win 3 or 4 playoff games in a row like that, regardless of the talent on the field... because you know, playoff teams are usually pretty good, too.

[Buehler445]

Now you're backtracking....

So now it's Herm's fault that he didn't step in and change things to prevent punting to Peyton? Easier said than done.

How about executing the plays? Is it also Herm's fault that the players couldn't execute the plays that were called?

If they would have done that, we likely would have won that game. If the defense would have made a stop in the 4th quarter, we likely would have won. It doesn't make a shit bit of difference what plays were called or who called them if the personnel can't execute it.

No, I'm operating under the premise that Herm is responsible for that play. I seriously don't think that Solari would be like, "No, Herm, I don't think we can get a 12 yard play. I'm going to run a draw play to get Colquitt 2 more yards and make Gunther's D stop the best offensive unit in the league." Sorry, I don't buy it. Not in the least.

[ChiefsCountry]

Jesus Saunders used to run draws on 3rd and Long quite a bit as well but on the other hand so did Jimmy Raye with Donnell Bennett.

[BigRedChief]

Thats what I'll miss most is the tailgating and friends built up through the years.
Weirdwolf
FirstDownElvis
Nzoner
Brock
JSPChief
and now me

Thats some seriously hard core Chief fans that have given up their tickets.:shake:
Big ommision. I profusely apoligize. You are worthy! :wayne:

[Fish]

No, I'm operating under the premise that Herm is responsible for that play. I seriously don't think that Solari would be like, "No, Herm, I don't think we can get a 12 yard play. I'm going to run a draw play to get Colquitt 2 more yards and make Gunther's D stop the best offensive unit in the league." Sorry, I don't buy it. Not in the least.

You're "operating under a premise" huh? You mean blindly guessing what someone else might have been thinking?

No matter how badly you want to blame Herm for everything, the offensive coordinator calls the plays. Not the head coach. And The OC doesn't check in with the head coach on each play to get his opinion on the matter. It doesn't happen that way.

Keep reaching.

[BigRedChief]

Am I the only one happy to see this finally happen. With the TeePee calling it quits and now BRC folding up the tailgate I will now live longer. It took away many years of my life dancing at the Teepee getting to the point of almost a heart attack, then being topped off by having to walk 20 feet and BRC giving me a "HEART ATTACK ON A BUN." Not to mention BRC giving me the biggest man hugs, I actually know what it feels like to be a pimple being popped cause of these.

In all serious, BRC with you the Tee Pee calling it quits, Weirdwolf retiring and Elvis making the same decsion you have, has completely blown Lot C up into also nothing. You were a huge part of what made that area the very best in the area of tailgating/party in the whole NFL and I've been to 24 NFL stadiums to justify that comment. There was not a better time anywhere in the NFL. Like I told WeirdWolf, go recharge those batteries, relight that fire and we will hold the fort down. In the meantime I will work on my spandex figure walking aimlessly through the parking lot trying to find "THE PARTY" but nothing will every compare to the one you helped make. You defiently will have to give me a hugs to make up for the ones I don't get every game you do decide to come to.
I know you get a lot of grief about the spandex and beeing an attention whore.

But I know all about the charity work that you do and the people that you have helped when you wern't in the spandex. Just let them be haters and keep up the charity work.

I'll see you on opening day or at Red Friday!

[Reerun_KC]

You're "operating under a premise" huh? You mean blindly guessing what someone else might have been thinking?

No matter how badly you want to blame Herm for everything, the offensive coordinator calls the plays. Not the head coach. And The OC doesn't check in with the head coach on each play to get his opinion on the matter. It doesn't happen that way.

Keep reaching.
Speaking of reaching.. Herm is this really you?

Oh and why do all the plays go through the Asst HC before they go onto the field? Yet the Asst HC has veto power over the OC...

Why you failing to bring that into the conversation?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Speaking of reaching.. Herm is this really you?

Oh and why do all the plays go through the Asst HC before they go onto the field? Yet the Asst HC has veto power over the OC...

Why you failing to bring that into the conversation?

I'd love to see a link that confirms that information.

Christ, an OC gets about 15 seconds out of the play clock to make a decision and make a play call so the offense can get out of the huddle on time. They don't have the time to go through multiple decision makers.

Some of you guys are acting like there's a ****ing union meeting over on the sidelines determining the playcall.

[Reerun_KC]

I'd love to see a link that confirms that information.

Christ, an OC gets about 15 seconds out of the play clock to make a decision and make a play call so the offense can get out of the huddle on time. They don't have the time to go through multiple decision makers.

Some of you guys are acting like there's a ****ing union meeting over on the sidelines determining the playcall.
I would like to see a link that proves otherwise... You have your opinion and I have mine....

A union meeting on the sidelines would be a step up. Problem is Herm is still part of that union...

[Buehler445]

You're "operating under a premise" huh? You mean blindly guessing what someone else might have been thinking?

No matter how badly you want to blame Herm for everything, the offensive coordinator calls the plays. Not the head coach. And The OC doesn't check in with the head coach on each play to get his opinion on the matter. It doesn't happen that way.

Keep reaching.

If you think Herm has no effect on the plays that are called, especially for a n00b coordinator, then there is not really much more to talk about.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I would like to see a link that proves otherwise... You have your opinion and I have mine....

A union meeting on the sidelines would be a step up. Problem is Herm is still part of that union...

Who needs a link when you use common ****ing sense?

Oh, wait. Too much to ask from you.

If the situation you're suggesting was actually the case, we'd be getting 15 delay of game penalties every Sunday.

There's simply not enough time to have a decision made, a play called, THEN VETOED - only to have another decision made and ANOTHER play called.

All in 15 seconds.

[OnTheWarpath15]

If you think Herm has no effect on the plays that are called, especially for a n00b coordinator, then there is not really much more to talk about.

Having an "effect" and actually controlling the playcalls on Sunday are two totally separate issues.

There's not a HC in the league that doesn't sit down with the OC during the week to discuss playcalls for specific down and distance situations.

But to say that he's vetoing the playcalls and making them himself on Sunday is flat out tinfoil hat BS.

As pointed out already, there's just not enough time.

[Buehler445]

Having an "effect" and actually controlling the playcalls on Sunday are two totally separate issues.

There's not a HC in the league that doesn't sit down with the OC during the week to discuss playcalls for specific down and distance situations.

But to say that he's vetoing the playcalls and making them himself on Sunday is flat out tinfoil hat BS.

As pointed out already, there's just not enough time.

I think Herm had a tremendous amount to do with that specific decision. He stated several times that he was working directly with Solari since he was a n00b. Moreover, he talks consistently about a conservative strategy within games.

Bottom line: Herm is not the coach of this team, we at least TRY to get a first down tie ballgame with 4 minutes left.

[BigRedChief]

Got this response so far.....Buy another ticket and we will move you to some better seats.


Good afternoon. Thank you for your continued support of the Kansas City Chiefs! I would like to introduce myself as your Kansas City Chiefs account manager.

It has come to my attention that there are seats available next to your LowerLevel season tickets. Do you know anyone who would be interested in sitting next to you for the 2008 season?

If so, I can secure those seats for you or we can relocate all of your seats to a better location with the addition of 1 or more season tickets.

Thank you once again for remaining a part of the Chiefs family. If I can help you in anyway, please call (edited by BRC) or email (edited by BRC) and I would be happy to assist.

All the best, Steve

Steve Eberle│ Account Executive

[Buehler445]

Got this response so far.....Buy another ticket and we will move you to some better seats.


Good afternoon. Thank you for your continued support of the Kansas City Chiefs! I would like to introduce myself as your Kansas City Chiefs account manager.

It has come to my attention that there are seats available next to your LowerLevel season tickets. Do you know anyone who would be interested in sitting next to you for the 2008 season?

If so, I can secure those seats for you or we can relocate all of your seats to a better location with the addition of 1 or more season tickets.

Thank you once again for remaining a part of the Chiefs family. If I can help you in anyway, please call (edited by BRC) or email (edited by BRC) and I would be happy to assist.

All the best, Steve

Steve Eberle│ Account Executive

At least you got some response. "Account Executive" sounds pretty low to me, but hopefully your message was received by more than him.

[Otter]

Thats what I'll miss most is the tailgating and friends built up through the years.
Weirdwolf
FirstDownElvis
Nzoner
Brock
JSPChief
and now me

Thats some seriously hard core Chief fans that have given up their tickets.:shake:

:eek:

Wow! I had no idea, like you said, that's a lot of core players.

Tell you what, I'm glad to see it happen though. The people running the show at One Arrowhead Drive have been the General Motors of the NFL for way to long and speaking with your wallet is the only way they'll listen.

There may be light at the end of the tunnel after all.

[xfactor]

I know you get a lot of grief about the spandex and beeing an attention whore.

But I know all about the charity work that you do and the people that you have helped when you wern't in the spandex. Just let them be haters and keep up the charity work.

I'll see you on opening day or at Red Friday!

I really don't pay much attention to that stuff BRC, I chalk it up to sterotyping, jealousy or just not being educated on why I do it. You know why I do it along with thousands of others and I do it for the kids anyways not the adults and I've never heard a kid say that. In the same breath you keep moving mountains in the community also, in the end of the day that is what matters most anyways. I will see you loud and proud at Red Friday!!! Thanks for always being a great friend!! Hopefully you will join us again on a full time basis at Arrowhead.

[StcChief]

I gave up 2 years ago (2006 season), probably should have done it 2 years before that....

apparently enough "true real fans" (lower bowl) are doing it now to really get their attention....

Had we done it before Carl would already be gone, but they may not have renewed the lease.....at Arrowhead.

[Mile High Mania]

Thats what I'll miss most is the tailgating and friends built up through the years.
Weirdwolf
FirstDownElvis
Nzoner
Brock
JSPChief
and now me

Thats some seriously hard core Chief fans that have given up their tickets.:shake:

Wow... all those guys gave up their tickets? Wild.

[Manila-Chief]

BRC ... you are a HERO!!!! This is the only way Clark will be induced to make needed changes.

I know it is a big step ... if they start winning you may have to go to the back of the line to get season tickets ... but, on the other hand, what have they really won since the SB win???? CP has proven he is more interested in the bottom line than the goal line and as long as he is there we will not get close to a SB. We might would have had a chance had CP spent money on the right defensive player for DV???

So, a great big VIRTUAL HIGH 5 from me!!!!

[CosmicPal]

At least you got some response. "Account Executive" sounds pretty low to me, but hopefully your message was received by more than him.

He's the one that handles all the ticketing sales: individual and group season tickets. It's what I used to do when I was living in KC. I was an Account Executive for a couple of sports teams there. Handled all the season and group ticket sales.

He's working the stadium to see if he can make BRC happier by suggesting the opportunity of having your friends all sit in the same area- something that could not possibly be done without an insurmountable glob of luck in the late 80's and 90's.

My father was a season ticket holder since the Chiefs moved to KC. He and his friends were very fortunate to have been able to sit with each other for so many years. But, they have all ended their season tickets after so many years.

I was surprised 'cause my father had always been a Chiefs fanatic. But, he did bring up a good point, and that is- "I've got a wall-size high-definition TV now, I'm closer to the action than ever before."

And this is the thing that is actually hurting a lot of teams. More and more men these days are creating theater seating rooms in their homes and "tailgating" at home. Add in the fact, a team suffered a few bad years on the playing field and you have a recipe for disaster.

So, the Account Executive is trying his best by offering available seats so his friends can all sit together like my father and his did for so many years. Yah, they had to endure the 70's, but when the team got to be really good and the stadium was electric- those seats were golden to them.

[Bearcat]

Got this response so far.....Buy another ticket and we will move you to some better seats.


Good afternoon. Thank you for your continued support of the Kansas City Chiefs! I would like to introduce myself as your Kansas City Chiefs account manager.

It has come to my attention that there are seats available next to your LowerLevel season tickets. Do you know anyone who would be interested in sitting next to you for the 2008 season?

If so, I can secure those seats for you or we can relocate all of your seats to a better location with the addition of 1 or more season tickets.

Thank you once again for remaining a part of the Chiefs family. If I can help you in anyway, please call (edited by BRC) or email (edited by BRC) and I would be happy to assist.

All the best, Steve

Steve Eberle¦ Account Executive

What a load of canned auto-reply crap.... and to ask for more money after such a detailed explanation of why you won't be giving them anymore... :shake: I wonder if they outsource to Sprint.

[little jacob]

so what finally pushed you over the edge BigRedChief. was it the state of the team or the price increase?

[Nzoner]

Got this response so far.....Buy another ticket and we will move you to some better seats.


Good afternoon. Thank you for your continued support of the Kansas City Chiefs! I would like to introduce myself as your Kansas City Chiefs account manager.

It has come to my attention that there are seats available next to your LowerLevel season tickets. Do you know anyone who would be interested in sitting next to you for the 2008 season?

If so, I can secure those seats for you or we can relocate all of your seats to a better location with the addition of 1 or more season tickets.

Thank you once again for remaining a part of the Chiefs family. If I can help you in anyway, please call (edited by BRC) or email (edited by BRC) and I would be happy to assist.

All the best, Steve

Steve Eberle│ Account Executive


This response tells me all I need to know about how well season ticket sales are going.

[Nzoner]

:eek:

Wow! I had no idea, like you said, that's a lot of core players.

Tell you what, I'm glad to see it happen though. The people running the show at One Arrowhead Drive have been the General Motors of the NFL for way to long and speaking with your wallet is the only way they'll listen.

There may be light at the end of the tunnel after all.

Here's my little rant from '05 when I finally said fock it (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=131537&highlight=shit+espn)

[StcChief]

This response tells me all I need to know about how well season ticket sales are going.yep. fully expect blackout's for non-conf/non-division home games.
this sounds it could be a good poll come Sept 2008

[Dartgod]

I'm confused and I don't have time to read through the entire thread.

I thought you had already renewed your seats BRC?

[BigRedChief]

so what finally pushed you over the edge BigRedChief. was it the state of the team or the price increase?
Neither. It was lingering resentment of King Carl and no value in being a season ticket holder.

[BigRedChief]

I'm confused and I don't have time to read through the entire thread.

I thought you had already renewed your seats BRC?
A lot of the pages are posters bagging on Herm Edwards play calling.

Yes, I renewed initially and then changed my mind. So I'll lose a hundred or two dollars but get to keep from spending another thousand or so plus get my thousand back.

[Dartgod]

A lot of the pages are posters bagging on Herm Edwards play calling.

Yes, I renewed initially and then changed my mind. So I'll lose a hundred or two dollars but get to keep from spending another thousand or so plus get my thousand back.
That's too bad. I was planning on bringing you margaritas at every game. :p

[OnTheWarpath15]

So there's a group of 5-6 seats together in the lower part of section 110, yet I'd bet if I called right now and asked for the best seats available, they'd try to give me something in the upper deck corners about 30 rows up.

[Alices Allstars]

I've been a Chiefs fan for a long time, I totally understand your point of view.

There was a day when the "lower class" people supported each and every NFL franchise. Today you have to be upper middle class to be recruited to be a season ticket holder.

I'm very disappointed in much the same way that BRC has been. I dont' see the product getting better and I see the prices escalating{sp} beyond what I'd want to pay.

I'll probably be a Chiefs fan for al slong as I watch professional football, but I can see a day when I become disinterested to the sport because of the attitudes of the franchises and the decreasing fanaticism of those that watch the game. I dont' think the sport will cease to exist but it has become such a big business that the fans are no longer really considered necessary.

Being a real fan is not related to being a season ticket holder nor going to all the games in my opinion, it's more the heart connection to the red and gold.

[CosmicPal]

So there's a group of 5-6 seats together in the lower part of section 110, yet I'd bet if I called right now and asked for the best seats available, they'd try to give me something in the upper deck corners about 30 rows up.

No, they wouldn't.

As a former account executive myself who sold group and season ticket sales, you tried to sell the best seats in the house. The best seats provided the best commissions.

So, if you were to call me up and said, "Hey, my four buddies and I are thinking about getting season tickets together. Where can we sit?"

I'm going to pull up club level first and work feverishly to find five seats together in club level. If not in the same row, hopefully two together in one row, and three together in the row directly in front or behind them.

The last thing I'd do as a Account Executive is offer the nosebleed seats.

[donkey_hater]

No, they wouldn't.

As a former account executive myself who sold group and season ticket sales, you tried to sell the best seats in the house. The best seats provided the best commissions.

So, if you were to call me up and said, "Hey, my four buddies and I are thinking about getting season tickets together. Where can we sit?"

I'm going to pull up club level first and work feverishly to find five seats together in club level. If not in the same row, hopefully two together in one row, and three together in the row directly in front or behind them.

The last thing I'd do as a Account Executive is offer the nosebleed seats.

Wish you were still there as the guys I have talked to that don't sing the same song and dance you did.

Was put in charge of buying ST for the company last year and the only way we could get the LL seat was buy 6 up top and get 2 below. Needless to say the boss was not to pleased with the car dealership offer.

[BigRedChief]

That's too bad. I was planning on bringing you margaritas at every game. :p
I don't think you have ever let me partake of the tailgate margaritas. Thats the real reason that I'm not renewing. Are you happy now!:harumph:

[BigRedChief]

Experience The New Arrowhead Stadium


The New Arrowhead Stadium VIP Club Level seats are ideal for Chiefs fans who want to see all the action from optimal sightlines and take in the Arrowhead experience while enjoying the convenience and luxury of the club level, available before, during and after the games. The club level will feature a spacious, fully enclosed, temperature-controlled concourse with views of all the tailgating grounds at the New Arrowhead Stadium.

Prior to the New Arrowhead Stadium VIP Club Level being completed for the 2010 season all current club level seats will be shifted slightly as we comply with ADA (American Disability Act) regulations. In addition, over 450 club level seats will be lost as isles are widened to comply with these regulations.

All current club level seat locations will be affected by these improvements and will require the Chiefs relocation team to contact each club level season ticket holder individually to discuss amenities and explain options. The Chiefs relocation team's responsibility is to ensure that each season ticket holder is provided with comparable, if not better seating in the new Arrowhead Stadium.

Relocation Process:
Beginning in January 2008, the Chiefs relocation team will begin calling all current club level season ticket holders to discuss options and to find comparable seats. This process will begin with sections located on the 50 yard line and will work towards the end zones. Each section is estimated to take 4 – 6 weeks to complete.

Join the club for pricey Chiefs seats
Oh, baby, what a play!</EM>

The Chiefs sent out nine-page, three-year contracts to some season ticket holders, complete with five pages of fine-print legalese and prices eventually doubling that of this season.

It doesn’t surprise Ticket Solutions’ owner Russ Lindmark.

“Unless they’re economic prognosticators, it seems to be outpacing inflation a little bit,” Lindmark says. “Either they’ve been undervaluing those tickets for a long time, or they want to put them in the hands of corporate Kansas City, because realistically individuals are going to have a hard time paying those prices.”

Under the terms of the contract, premium club-level “sideline select” season tickets priced at $1,100 each this year jump to $1,490 in 2009 (up 35 percent), then to $2,550 in 2010 and $2,700 in 2011.

The portion of the new ticket terms that brokers and fans alike may find particularly galling: a “non-transferability” clause.

“Except as expressly permitted by these terms and conditions, under no circumstances shall (ticket holder) sell, barter, exchange, transfer for consideration, or raffle off club seats to games or stadium events or use club seat tickets for any promotional or commercial purpose without prior written approval of (the Chiefs); provided, however, that (the ticket holder) is free to sell club seat tickets via TeamExchange and TicketExchange on <!--coloro:#990000--><!--/coloro-->www.kcchiefs.com<!--colorc--><!--/colorc--> (http://www.kcchiefs.com/) or <!--coloro:#990000--><!--/coloro-->www.ticketmaster.com<!--colorc--><!--/colorc--> (http://www.ticketmaster.com/).”

Translation: It would appear that the Chiefs want to play Monopoly with choice seats.

“They don’t mind the resale, as long as they get to share in the profits,” Lindmark says. “That’s fine, but open it up to the free market. They have a rule on their TicketExchange that you can only sell tickets at or above face value. You can’t sell them for less than that. But the market value may very well be below face value.”

Lindmark’s hunch as to why the Chiefs might want to force season ticket holders to eat tickets for games they can’t attend but may be unsalable at face value?

“Because it would undermine their ticket sales at the box office,” Lindmark contends. “They want to protect the tickets they have remaining to sell. What they don’t want is their TicketExchange full of tickets for sale at half of what they’re asking at the box office. They want to have their cake and eat it, too.”

Kansas City Chiefs senior vice president Bill Newman has another take:

“He wants his cake and he wants to eat it, too,” Newman counters. “He’s the one who wants to dine out at our expense.”

The ticket contract applies only to 9 percent of the stadium, leaving the other 91 to do as they please (within reason) with their tickets, Newman says.

The Chiefs want to protect the sanctity and the value of club-level seats, in part because of the amenities that are being added, premium prices are paid, and there is a waiting list for those tickets.

http://www.kansascity.com/entertainment/columnists/hearne_christopher_jr/story/491826.html

[Bowser]

I'm suprised they haven't called you up directly pleading "PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE RENEW, OR CARL IS GOING TO FEED US TO THE SYPHILLIS INFECTED SPIDER MONKEYS!!!"

[CoMoChief]

The new Arrowhead looks retarded, wtf is gonna wanna buy seats in the "Horizon Level"?.

[Mojo Rising]

Management knows they are losing fans based on the new pricing structure. It is my understanding that they lowered prices in the upper level and raised them in the lower level.

Lower level fans are less likely to give up their tickets because of their 20+ year commitment. Upper level seats will now be cheaper to avoid a sell out.

Did Clark come in and clear house like he wants to do things differently? No. The Hunts are just as much to blame as Carl. If Carl had different marching orders the results might be different. If not, he would be gone.

Carl ran a cash cow for the Hunts. I do not know the terms of Carl's contract but based on the last 20 years I suspect he is bonused on profit...not Super Bowl wins.

After Lamar won his ring he focused on soccer instead of more SB rings.

Why are we consistently the lowest payroll in the NFL?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Management knows they are losing fans based on the new pricing structure. It is my understanding that they lowered prices in the upper level and raised them in the lower level.

Lower level fans are less likely to give up their tickets because of their 20+ year commitment. Upper level seats will now be cheaper to avoid a sell out.

Did Clark come in and clear house like he wants to do things differently? No. The Hunts are just as much to blame as Carl. If Carl had different marching orders the results might be different. If not, he would be gone.

Carl ran a cash cow for the Hunts. I do not know the terms of Carl's contract but based on the last 20 years I suspect he is bonused on profit...not Super Bowl wins.

After Lamar won his ring he focused on soccer instead of more SB rings.

Why are we consistently the lowest payroll in the NFL?

I don't have time to look up every team, but I can tell you that the Chiefs were nowhere near the lowest payroll last season.

The SB Champion Giants hold that distinction, spending just over $75M, while the Chiefs spent over $108M.

http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/default.aspx

[Pasta Little Brioni]

I don't have time to look up every team, but I can tell you that the Chiefs were nowhere near the lowest payroll last season.

The SB Champion Giants hold that distinction, spending just over $75M, while the Chiefs spent over $108M.

http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/default.aspx

Heck this is the only year in recent times the Chiefs have that much cap room, so i have no idea what Mojo is talking about. We are not consistently the lowest payroll in the league. The problem was spending the money on older players that didn't do crap and shitty drafts. Heck i'd rather do the approach we are doing now than blow money on over the hill vets.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Heck this is the only year in recent times the Chiefs have that much cap room, so i have no idea what Mojo is talking about. We are not consistently the lowest payroll in the league. The problem was spending the money on older players that didn't do crap and shitty drafts. Heck i'd rather do the approach we are doing now than blow money on over the hill vets.

Agreed, 100%

[Mojo Rising]

We have been in the lower 1/3 of player cost for some time.

http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/numbers.asp

http://ballhype.com/story/02_14_2008_chiefs_have_plenty_of_room_under_salary_cap/

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-underthecap031008&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Don't you remember in '02 when our D was horrible and we didn't sign any D help because we spread Holmes and Greens signing bonuses over 2 years?

Would have been nice to retain home grown talent like Allen that doesn't require going to the open market. He proved he was willing to sign a deal that limited the risk of a 1 year suspension if you look at the deal he signined with the Vikes.

[Otter]

I've been a Chiefs fan for a long time, I totally understand your point of view.

There was a day when the "lower class" people supported each and every NFL franchise. Today you have to be upper middle class to be recruited to be a season ticket holder.

I'm very disappointed in much the same way that BRC has been. I dont' see the product getting better and I see the prices escalating{sp} beyond what I'd want to pay.

I'll probably be a Chiefs fan for al slong as I watch professional football, but I can see a day when I become disinterested to the sport because of the attitudes of the franchises and the decreasing fanaticism of those that watch the game. I dont' think the sport will cease to exist but it has become such a big business that the fans are no longer really considered necessary.

Being a real fan is not related to being a season ticket holder nor going to all the games in my opinion, it's more the heart connection to the red and gold.

I can see the NFL going through an ugly player salary restructuring, possibly even a strike much like the NHL went through back in 2004 - 2005.

Franchises are eventually going to reach the ceiling where the price of attending a game exceeds the amount of cash fans and even businesses are willing to spend and it has everything to do with overblown player salary's...the same fundamental reason the restructuring occurred in the NHL.

Matt Ryan, a rookie who never threw a pass in the NFL just signed a six year deal worth $72 MILLION dollars. That's ****ing ridiculous. Guess who is paying this guys salary for the most part? Look around the stadium on Sunday and put a price tag over everyones head.

The whole economy issue aside, with everyone having direct TV and HD theater systems in the basement the bubble has got to burst eventually and I'm personally really looking forward to the day it happens.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

We have been in the lower 1/3 of player cost for some time.

http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/numbers.asp

http://ballhype.com/story/02_14_2008_chiefs_have_plenty_of_room_under_salary_cap/

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-underthecap031008&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Don't you remember in '02 when our D was horrible and we didn't sign any D help because we spread Holmes and Greens signing bonuses over 2 years?

Would have been nice to retain home grown talent like Allen that doesn't require going to the open market. He proved he was willing to sign a deal that limited the risk of a 1 year suspension if you look at the deal he signined with the Vikes.

Well those show the numbers for this year which ya we have the most cap room and it's kind of good for a change. Again, i blame a horrible stretch of drafts as the culprit not free agency. Besides, the big named defensive players signed in that offseason by other teams turned out to be MAJOR busts...hugh douglas and troy vincent ring a bell????

[BigRedChief]

We have been in the lower 1/3 of player cost for some time.

http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/numbers.asp

http://ballhype.com/story/02_14_2008_chiefs_have_plenty_of_room_under_salary_cap/

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-underthecap031008&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Don't you remember in '02 when our D was horrible and we didn't sign any D help because we spread Holmes and Greens signing bonuses over 2 years?

Would have been nice to retain home grown talent like Allen that doesn't require going to the open market. He proved he was willing to sign a deal that limited the risk of a 1 year suspension if you look at the deal he signined with the Vikes.

I don't think King Carl doesn't care about winning that he only cares about money. He just doesn't know how to win.

There are a lot of teams under the cap now. Its a trend, I think.....:rolleyes:

[ClevelandBronco]

I would like to personally apologize for the POS Denver Broncos' fan above that has said in another thread that he hopes that the Airborne Ranger son of a poster here will "get gunned down" in Iraq.

He's an embarrassment to us.

[kc rush]

This thread seems as good of a place to put this as any. Rather, there is no point in starting a new thread based on the rantings of some lunatic from another board.

I was looking up something when I saw a thread (about 2/3rds down) from some guy claiming the Chiefs have lost 26,000 season ticket holders this year.

http://gatewaycityradio.com/messageboard/kcboard.asp

If true, ouch, that’s about 1/3 of all seats and it would be a higher percentage of STH since not all seats are/were held by STH’s. I was trying to find confirmation somewhere, has anyone heard or seen anything?

[OnTheWarpath15]

This thread seems as good of a place to put this as any. Rather, there is no point in starting a new thread based on the rantings of some lunatic from another board.

I was looking up something when I saw a thread (about 2/3rds down) from some guy claiming the Chiefs have lost 26,000 season ticket holders this year.

http://gatewaycityradio.com/messageboard/kcboard.asp

If true, ouch, that’s about 1/3 of all seats and it would be a higher percentage of STH since not all seats are/were held by STH’s. I was trying to find confirmation somewhere, has anyone heard or seen anything?


My understanding is that STH made up 70K of the 79K seats at Arrowhead, give or take.

I can only assume that they would mean 26K actual TICKETS, not ACCOUNTS, because 26K accounts would result in at least 52K lost tickets. (26K times 2 seats per account - and many accounts have more than 2 seats.

So assuming 26K in tickets were lost, that would leave only 44K out of 79K seats locked up each Sunday by STH.

35,000 empty seats available every Sunday?

Very doubtful, IMO.

[StcChief]

an Arrowhead insider would be the only real way, well place in sales/marketing. That isn't a number they want to advertise. 25K STHer turning in tickets

[BigRedChief]

an Arrowhead insider would be the only real way, well place in sales/marketing. That isn't a number they want to advertise. 25K STHer turning in tickets
Not a chance of getting real numbers out of Arrowhead. King Carl spent years trying to tell ua there was a waiting list long after there wasn't a list anymore.

[StcChief]

Not a chance of getting real numbers out of Arrowhead. King Carl spent years trying to tell ua there was a waiting list long after there wasn't a list anymore.yeah my inside connection is dead....so along with my ST and x-MIL (who could care less about Chiefs) despite the nice pension/insurance plan because of Chiefs/NFL. No way I could find out......

The proof will be in the empty stadium. since most seats were STHers we can do the rough math and get a pretty good idea where they are.

[BigRedChief]

At least the STH's at Arrowhead don't have to buy a PSL like these.

<O:p</O:p
The New York Giants unveiled the pricing structure for their new stadium, which will open in 2010. Capacity will be 82,500, and every seat will be tied to a personal seat license (PSL). That's a one-time payment by a season-ticket holder for the right to purchase a game ticket. The PSLs will range from $1,000 to $20,000 per seat. The Giants said PSLs were necessary to help finance the $1.6 billion project. The Giants said fewer than 5,000 seats in the new stadium will command that $20,000 PSL, and that 90 percent of the tickets in the upper deck will carry a $1,000 PSL.

Contrast that to the Cowboys, whose new 80,000-seat stadium opens in 2009. The Cowboys also decided seat licenses were necessary to help finance their $1.1 billion project. Their seat licenses range from $2,000 to $150,000.<O:p</O:p

[Pasta Little Brioni]

up to 150000 for a PSL for the Cowpokes :eek: holy sheet

[Dartgod]

PSL is just another way of saying, "Bend over and grab your ankles".