PDA

View Full Version : Football Covitz:Youth movement: New faces taking over at quarterback as teams look for talent


Tribal Warfare
09-01-2008, 11:18 PM
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/777314.html

Youth movement: New faces taking over at quarterback as teams look for talent
By RANDY COVITZ
The Kansas City Star



Ron Jaworski worries about the state of the quarterback position in the NFL.

When the regular season begins Thursday, 13 of the 32 teams will start a different quarterback from the one who started opening day in 2007, including two rookies.

“I think it looks bleak for the future of the quarterback position right now,” said Jaworski, who played the position in the NFL for 15 years and is lead analyst for ESPN’s “Monday Night Football.”

Most alarming about the changeovers at quarterback is six of the opening-day starters have yet to win an NFL start, including the Chiefs’ Brodie Croyle, who’s 0-6.

“If you look at the instability of the quarterback position, it leads to instability throughout the league,” Jaworski said. “The teams who have a guy they can count on week in and week out, those are the teams who will have the best opportunity to win on a consistent level.”

Among the quarterbacks seeking their first career wins, J.T. O’Sullivan, with his seventh team in six years, will make his first career start for San Francisco; and Aaron Rodgers, who was Brett Favre’s understudy for three years, will make his first starting debut for Green Bay.

Also, JaMarcus Russell, the first overall pick in the 2007 draft, will make his second career start for Oakland; Atlanta is going with rookie Matt Ryan, the third overall pick of the 2008 draft; and Baltimore is starting Joe Flacco, the 18th pick in the draft.

There have been changes among veterans, too, starting with Favre’s trade to the Jets and Chad Pennington’s move to Miami; Chicago’s benching Rex Grossman in favor of Kyle Orton; and Kurt Warner overtaking former first-round pick and Heisman Trophy winner Matt Leinart.

“I’m very much concerned about the development of quarterbacks in the NFL,” Jaworski said. “I don’t see them coming out of the collegiate level. You’re seeing the spread option becoming the predominant offense, not developing quarterbacks for the pro game because they’re not reading coverage or reading defenses and limited in the game plan and playbook.

“I don’t remember it being like this.”

Former Baltimore Ravens coach Brian Billick, now an analyst for CBS Sports, harkens back to 2000 when his club won the Super Bowl with journeyman Trent Dilfer and one of the best defenses in NFL history.

“One of the reasons we were as successful as we were at the time was there was a bit of a void,” Billick said. “Guys like Troy Aikman, Dan Marino, Steve Young and John Elway were transitioning out, and people like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady, who we didn’t know much about, were just starting to show up.

“Even though we clearly have some dominant quarterbacks, we’re about to hit the next wave. Who that is, your guess is as good as mine. But we’re clearly in one of those cycles.”

The inability to develop a franchise quarterback eventually led to Billick’s demise as the Ravens’ coach after the 2007 season. Baltimore drafted Kyle Boller in the first round of the 2003 draft, and he has been a bust. They tried veteran Steve McNair for two years, but his career was on fumes.

“You don’t like to do it, I don’t care who you are,” Billick said of starting rookie quarterbacks. “I don’t care what your track record is, I don’t care how many games you’ve won or lost, that’s a 50-50 crapshoot at best.”

Gil Brandt, the former Dallas Cowboys personnel executive and now an analyst for NFL.com, said: “People have decided rather than go with a (Daunte) Culpepper or (Kerry) Collins, they’re saying, ‘If we’re going to lose, we’re going to lose with a young guy and teach him how to play.’

“You’ve got to hope your defense plays well, gets some turnovers and you run the ball well.”

That was the case in Pittsburgh when Ben Roethlisberger went 14-1 as a rookie in 2004 and led the Steelers to a Super Bowl win in his second year. Also, Brady came out of nowhere in 2001 and took New England to a Super Bowl title in his second season.

But Eli Manning, the Super Bowl MVP last season for the Giants, went 1-6 as a rookie in 2004, and Peyton Manning, the Super Bowl MVP two years ago, went 3-13 as a rookie in 1998.

“I still love the Bill Parcells line about young quarterbacks,” Jaworski said.

“You find out about them when they throw three interceptions, have been sacked five times and lost by 21 points. On Wednesday (at practice), he’s got to come back into the huddle and feel good about himself.

“But ultimately, you can’t hide your quarterback. You’re going to have to ask him to make plays to win the football game. If it’s third and 10, or if it’s late in the game where you have to go downfield, he is going to have to make a play.”

Zero for six
Six NFL quarterbacks will be trying for their first career victory as a starter in week one.

Brodie Croyle Chiefs 0-6

Sunday

at Patriots

JaMarcus Russell Raiders 0-1

Monday

vs. Broncos

Joe Flacco Ravens 0-0

Sunday

vs. Bengals

Aaron Rodgers Packers 0-0

Monday

vs. Vikings

Matt Ryan Falcons 0-0

Sunday

vs. Lions

J.T. O’Sullivan 49ers 0-0

Sunday

vs. Cardinals

How they started
Six first-year starting quarterbacks, including the Chiefs’ Brodie Croyle and rookies Atlanta’s Matt Ryan and Baltimore’s Joe Flacco, will be looking for their first NFL victories this week. Croyle may be in his third season, but it’s interesting to compare how the last 10 Super Bowl-winning quarterbacks fared as rookies.

•Eli Manning, New York Giants: Started seven games as a rookie in 2004 and was 1-6. He completed 48.2 percent of his passes with nine interceptions.

•Peyton Manning, Indianapolis: Started all 16 games as a rookie and was 3-13. He completed 56.7 percent of his passes but threw 28 interceptions.

•Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh: Big Ben had the most successful rookie season of the modern era. He went 14-1 as a starter and broke Dan Marino’s records for a rookie for completion percentage (66.4) and passer-rating (98.1).

•Tom Brady, New England: He completed one of his three attempted passes in 2000 and showed little indication he would appear in four Super Bowls in the next seven years, winning three.

•Brad Johnson, Tampa Bay: He played in four games with Minnesota as a rookie in 1994. He didn’t become a starter until his third season.

•Trent Dilfer, Baltimore: He was 0-2 as a starter for Tampa Bay as a rookie in 1994. He started all 16 games in his second season and was 7-9.

•Kurt Warner, St. Louis: He completed four of 11 passes as a 27-year-old rookie in 1998 after stints in the Arena Football League and NFL Europe. He posted a 13-3 mark and was NFL and Super Bowl MVP in year two.

•John Elway, Denver: The future Hall of Famer was 4-6 as a rookie starter in 1983. He completed just 47.5 percent of his passes and threw 14 interceptions, but the Broncos made the playoffs.

•Brett Favre,Green Bay : He attempted only four passes as a rookie for the Falcons — two incomplete and two intercepted.

•Troy Aikman, Dallas: Another future Hall of Famer started 11 games as a rookie and went 0-11 for a Cowboys team that went 1-15. He threw nine touchdown passes and 18 interceptions.

TrickyNicky
09-01-2008, 11:37 PM
Gosh, I had no idea the QB was so important!

Mecca
09-02-2008, 03:14 AM
What he said about the spread option is 100% right I've been saying that same stuff. All the teams running the spread option hurts the development for the NFL game. It's why even guys like Matt Ryan get more rare because he's from a true pro style offense.

Finding QB's and offensive players in general will get harder as more teams go to the spread a college offense that doesn't prepare anyone for the NFL, it makes evaluating them hard and their ready level is virtually at 0.

It's pretty bad when you have to actually stop and think about what college teams run pro style offenses.

Stuff like this may cause more and more Joe Flacco type things to happen where Division 2 QB's vault up in the rankings because of the systems they are in. The spread just frankly isn't good for football.

Otter
09-02-2008, 05:49 AM
That was a damn good read,

As far as I'm concerned this is Brodie's first season under center. Time to find out what he can or cannot do after a season carrying the load.

I'm rooting for him and have a good gut feeling.

Mecca
09-02-2008, 05:56 AM
You know what I don't get, why any highly rated recruit would go to a team that runs the spread. If you have aspirations of playing in the NFL all it does is hurt you. It makes scouting those players impossible, because they don't play in situations like they'll see in the NFL.

i think the spread is fine for teams that have a hard time recruiting and need to level the playing field because of the other teams talent but a team like Michigan running the spread is stupid. When you can get elite players you don't need to run a gimmick offense.

Otter
09-02-2008, 06:02 AM
Then I remember the names Dick Curl and Carl Peterson and worried again.

It's like watching a promising young sportscaster being hired to do the games on Sunday only to find out his mentor is Shannon Sharpe.

rad
09-02-2008, 06:42 AM
How would you find out what offenses college programs run? Is there a site or something?

Mecca
09-02-2008, 06:45 AM
How would you find out what offenses college programs run? Is there a site or something?

Just watch them play.....teams like Missouri and Florida, that's a spread, offenses where the QB is always in shotgun, there's 4 and 5 WR's on the field, even the running plays are out of the shotgun.

Stuff like USC runs is pro style.

The spread really kills development for the NFL because no WR is ever doubled in it, so you don't see a WR in a true pro situation. It basically goes right down the line you never see any of the players play in NFL situations so imagine trying to scout and project that.

King_Chief_Fan
09-02-2008, 06:53 AM
you can't hide your QB......QFT

It looks like to me that is what the Chiefs are doing. We will see what the regular season brings and hope that Brodie cuts loose down the field with some big plays. He has the play makers....he needs to make the plays.

alanm
09-02-2008, 06:56 AM
What he said about the spread option is 100% right I've been saying that same stuff. All the teams running the spread option hurts the development for the NFL game. It's why even guys like Matt Ryan get more rare because he's from a true pro style offense.

Finding QB's and offensive players in general will get harder as more teams go to the spread a college offense that doesn't prepare anyone for the NFL, it makes evaluating them hard and their ready level is virtually at 0.

It's pretty bad when you have to actually stop and think about what college teams run pro style offenses.

Stuff like this may cause more and more Joe Flacco type things to happen where Division 2 QB's vault up in the rankings because of the systems they are in. The spread just frankly isn't good for football.
Nebraska has a few good ones in the system behind Ganz but will be looking for a few more after this season. It will only benefit teams like the Huskers and USC that they can point to their teams as saying that they can prepare QB's for the pros better than say... Missouri. :D

King_Chief_Fan
09-02-2008, 06:56 AM
wow, Brodie has the most experience of those other "first time starters"

Buehler445
09-02-2008, 07:08 AM
“But ultimately, you can’t hide your quarterback. You’re going to have to ask him to make plays to win the football game. If it’s third and 10, or if it’s late in the game where you have to go downfield, he is going to have to make a play.”



This is why I worry about Croyle. Herm has always tried to hide Brode, make him throw the short shit. I don't think Herm has the testicular fortitude to say, "Brodie, win me a ballgame."

Reerun_KC
09-02-2008, 07:12 AM
This is why I worry about Croyle. Herm has always tried to hide Brode, make him throw the short shit. I don't think Herm has the testicular fortitude to say, "Brodie, win me a ballgame."
He dont, that is why Herm quit on his team in the Indy game last year...

He was scared, scared to succeed or at least scared to try and succeed...

Herm is comfortable with losing, it gives him peace with his lack of gametime management.

Deberg_1990
09-02-2008, 07:51 AM
“One of the reasons we were as successful as we were at the time was there was a bit of a void,” Billick said. “Guys like Troy Aikman, Dan Marino, Steve Young and John Elway were transitioning out, and people like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady, who we didn’t know much about, were just starting to show up.



Funny, Billick basically just admitted Dilfer wasnt very good. :)

Molitoth
09-02-2008, 08:10 AM
John Elway, Denver: The future Hall of Famer was 4-6 as a rookie starter in 1983. He completed just 47.5 percent of his passes and threw 14 interceptions, but the Broncos made the playoffs.


uhhhhh.....

Stewie
09-02-2008, 08:28 AM
uhhhhh.....

He wasn't a Hall of Famer as a rookie in 1983.

Otter
09-02-2008, 08:30 AM
This is why I worry about Croyle. Herm has always tried to hide Brode, make him throw the short shit. I don't think Herm has the testicular fortitude to say, "Brodie, win me a ballgame."

You know what's even worse in my opinion?

Let's say the team is 2-5 by the Tampa Bay game and it's obvious that there's no real shot at the post season. Could you honestly imagine Herm saying "ok, let's let the young guys run loose, try some new plays, trick plays, let's see what they're capable of God dammit!!!".

I sure as hell can't picture old man Edwards taking on that philosophy. He'll march that team out there every game make them run through his old lady approach to football when he could be learning something about those guys, building their confidence and giving them something to look forward to in an otherwise bleak season.

Teachers like Herm Edwards are the reason kids grow up to be low level accountants for the goverment their whole lives.

And yes, my Monday Morning QB chair is just getting getting warmed up. I just think Edwards is wayyyyyyy too conservative.

Reerun_KC
09-02-2008, 08:37 AM
You know what's even worse in my opinion?

Let's say the team is 2-5 by the Tampa Bay game and it's obvious that there's no real shot at the post season. Could you honestly imagine Herm saying "ok, let's let the young guys run loose, try some new plays, trick plays, let's see what they're capable of God dammit!!!".

I sure as hell can't picture old man Edwards taking on that philosophy. He'll march that team out there every game make them run through his old lady approach to football when he could be learning something about those guys, building their confidence and giving them something to look forward to in an otherwise bleak season.

Teachers like Herm Edwards are the reason kids grow up to be low level accountants for the goverment their whole lives.

And yes, my Monday Morning QB chair is just getting getting warmed up. I just Edwards is wayyyyyyy too conservative.
Well DV did that is 03 with his young/old team..

They went out there and just played, scored, played and had a good time to the tune of 6-10....

Maybe Herm needs to let his team have a good time while they are growing this year.