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Buzz
09-03-2008, 01:23 PM
X

Reerun_KC
09-03-2008, 01:25 PM
He come all the Herm defenders crying about Willie Roaf Retiring...

SPATCH
09-03-2008, 01:26 PM
that was neat

keg in kc
09-03-2008, 01:26 PM
Yep, herm's responsible for the fall of the offense, it has nothing to do with the retirements of Roaf and Shields and the concussion/departure of Trent Green. All hail jesus Saunders.

FAX
09-03-2008, 01:27 PM
I guess this guy hasn't gotten over it, yet.

FAX

Reerun_KC
09-03-2008, 01:27 PM
That article is pure GOLD!!!

Reerun_KC
09-03-2008, 01:28 PM
Yep, herm's responsible for the fall of the offense, it has nothing to do with the retirements of Roaf and Shields and the concussion/departure of Trent Green. All hail jesus Saunders.


Damn that didnt take long...

Chief Pote
09-03-2008, 01:30 PM
Yep, herm's responsible for the fall of the offense, it has nothing to do with the retirements of Roaf and Shields and the concussion/departure of Trent Green. All hail jesus Saunders.

Good coaches recover quickly from that misfortune. I'm embarrassed to display my Chiefs garb......

cadmonkey
09-03-2008, 01:30 PM
I see nothing wrong with this article. Herm Edwards was terrible with the Jets and he is terrible with the Chiefs.

keg in kc
09-03-2008, 01:30 PM
He come all the Herm defenders crying about Willie Roaf Retiring...ROFL

Funniest part is, I'm not even a herm defender, but come on...

Without Roaf, you have the '01 chiefs. Without Roaf and Shields, you have the '06-'07 Chiefs. It doesn't take einstein to figure that much out. Football's a game won and lost in the trenches, always has been always will be.

Herm's problem is that he had two years to fix that line and he didn't, not until this offseason. If the offense is any better in '08, along with Gailey instead of Solari, it'll be because Albert's a decent player and they found a right tackle not named McIntosh.

The idea that this is somehow what Herm wants? I just don't see it.

Deberg_1990
09-03-2008, 01:30 PM
Dude does make a decent point:

The Chiefs still moved the ball in 06/07 but they didnt score TD's..



Hmmmm.........Is that not Herm's longtime reputation?

SPATCH
09-03-2008, 01:32 PM
Good coaches recover quickly from that misfortune. I'm embarrassed to display my Chiefs garb......

then kindly **** off, sir.

Reaper16
09-03-2008, 01:33 PM
It's Herm's fault that players get older. Herm Edwards is the reason that people age. :rolleyes:

What a shitty article.

Reerun_KC
09-03-2008, 01:34 PM
ROFL

Funniest part is, I'm not even a herm defender, but come on...

Without Roaf, you have the '01 chiefs. Without Roaf and Shields, you have the '06-'07 Chiefs. It doesn't take einstein to figure that much out. Football's a game won and lost in the trenches, always has been always will be.

Herm's problem is that he had two years to fix that line and he didn't, not until this offseason. If the offense is any better in '08, along with Gailey instead of Solari, it'll be because Albert's a decent player and they found a right tackle not named McIntosh.

Yes without Roaf and Shields the line sucked, and your right the problem has been on going since Herm has been a head coach. His OL's have sucked and he cant seem to build a solid line.

Reerun_KC
09-03-2008, 01:35 PM
It's Herm's fault that players get older. Herm Edwards is the reason that people age. :rolleyes:

What a shitty article.
Nope but Herm is responsible for suitable replacements.. Turley and McIntosh are not sutible replacements...

DT58HOF
09-03-2008, 01:39 PM
it is Herm's fault that he is a dumbass!!

mikey23545
09-03-2008, 01:40 PM
This is a breathtakingly retarded article, and sure enough all the resident droolers have started to show up to clap and stomp their open-mouthed approval.

Nightfyre
09-03-2008, 01:43 PM
This is a breathtakingly retarded article, and sure enough all the resident droolers have started to show up to clap and stomp their open-mouthed approval.

This.

Stinger
09-03-2008, 01:49 PM
It's Herm's fault that players get older. Herm Edwards is the reason that people age. :rolleyes:



Haven't you heard Herm is teh Debil :evil:

Reerun_KC
09-03-2008, 01:51 PM
it is Herm's fault that he is a dumbass!!
Thread closed!

CoMoChief
09-03-2008, 01:51 PM
There were many events that caused us to fail miserably on offense. Herm is not at fault entirely, but he gets his fare share of blame and is looked at mostly because he's the HC and is responsible for how the Chiefs perform.

Reasons why our offense sucks....

1. Roaf/Shields retired. this is the most important as LT is the most important position on offense outside the QB, we all saw in 2004 when Roaf went down, how bad our offense looked against a horrible BUF team. Without Roaf and Shields for that matter, the offense did nothing. Trent Green wasn't anything special. He didnt have a strong arm, he was old, and wasn't athletic, and held onto the ball a long time, longer than most QB's. But that was all fine and dandy when you have a probowl line protecting you providing you with 8 seconds of protection to get rid of it. ANY decent QB would flourish behind that Oline. Look at what Tom Brady did last season before the SB, NO ONE touched him, that oline was the best Oline at pass blocking in the league and it wasn't even close. Indy can be in that same category too. Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are only as good as the protection their Oline gives them. They arent athletic enough the scramble outside the pocket etc. Our WR's have always been crap outside TonyG, but eventually a WR will get open if he gets 8 or so seconds to get rid of the ball. The Oline from 2002-2005 made those offenses click....PERIOD.

2. Change of philosophy. Even though the Chiefs were in tops of the NFL in time of possesion. Herm wanted to run the ball even more to control the clock.....even more so than we already did. AS and DV willing to throw the ball down field. Herm wants more of a short west coast offense with dump offs and moving the chains offense. Herm has NO desire to EVER go for the Homerun, which is why I think he will always fail as a coach and will NEVER win the big game. This article has a great point. After Herm is done with the Chiefs, I don't think there is one team in the NFL that would pick him again as a HC. I also don't think he will go back to coordinating or scouting either.

3. Playing a rookie QB during a youth movement. Not only we are playing with a rookie QB for the most part, other primart positions on offense are also rookies and are also learning on the job as the season goes on. There are gonna be ups and downs and thats all part of the game. The only problem is when we play decent to good teams, we are gonna get our asses kicked in more ways people could ever imagine, which destroys any confidence this team ever had on offense.

4. Lack of ST. Ever since Herm got here and DV and his staff left our return game has been the laughing stock of the NFL. If there is one thing DV knew and was very good at was breaking down ST portion of the game. He was the first ST coach in the NFL btw FWIW. We had ST allstars during his time here. Trading away Dante Hall was a big mistake. He was good at making people miss and was always good for a few returns a year. Hopefully Savage changes that and what we have witnessed since Herm has been here.

5. Carl Peterson, shit for anything he's just been here way too damn long and should have left when Marty left.


Theres a fine line between good and bad coaches.

Good coaches you know that no matter what, your team will always be in the game or have a chance at winning it.

Bad coaches you know when you play some teams you have zero chance in winning, which is what I feel with Herm Edwards and have never thought while DV, Gun, or Marty were HC. (Carl's tenure)

Reaper16
09-03-2008, 02:05 PM
Trading away Dante Hall was a big mistake. He was good at making people miss and was always good for a few returns a year.
This is really, really incorrect. Dante was terrible in his last season as a Chief.

CoMoChief
09-03-2008, 02:06 PM
This is really, really incorrect. Dante was terrible in his last season as a Chief.

The ST blocking was HORRIBLE in Herm's first season. Dante still took one to the house and almost had another one.

But hey we are in MUCH better shape now starting from damn near the ****in 20yd line everytime someone kicks off to us.

Pablo
09-03-2008, 02:09 PM
The ST blocking was HORRIBLE in Herm's first season. Dante still took one to the house and almost had another one.

But hey we are in MUCH better shape now starting from damn near the ****in 20yd line everytime someone kicks off to us.Dante wasn't all that valuable to this team anyhow. Sure, he might have took one to the house, but more than likely he was just going to get us to the 35-40 maybe, so we could march down field to their 40 if we were lucky and set up for a 55+ yard FG.

The real f*cking travesty for our KR's is keeping Sams for anything.

Chiefnj2
09-03-2008, 02:17 PM
Vermeil was able to do fairly well in 2001 (5th in yards and 16th in scoring) with Tait (a RT more than a LT), Waters in what I believe was his first year starting after being converted from a TE, Weigman, Shields and a combo of Spear/Riley at RT.

Other than Shields I don't recall any of the other OL being considered all that great at the time. A decent offensive coach was able to make chicken salad out of a questionable lineup.

FAX
09-03-2008, 02:18 PM
I have to admit that I was (and remain, somewhat) incensed over Herm's blatant lie in his first press conference that he wasn't going to change the offense. But, that's all in the past and I'm pretty much over it now just like Herm said I should be.

The retirement of Roaf, the injury to Trent, and the hiring of Solari sent us into a tailspin. The only part of that which can be directly attributed to Herm, however, is the Solari pick. But, the organization should have had the foresight and ability to develop a lineman or two who could serve as reasonable replacements for our big Willies. Not only did they not do that, they brought in several of the worst offensive linemen ever to play the game of football. That is just stupid. Actually, I don't know what you call it ... malfeasence, maybe.

Herm then realizes he's in the crapper and comes up with a "Plan". It's kind of cool, too. Because, not only does the "Plan" mollify the fans who get excited about watching young, upcoming players, he buys himself additional years as our HC because young players aren't expected to win right away. Carl backs the "Plan" because he has no other choice in the matter and we're off to the races.

My problem is that I don't know whether or not we're racing toward success or failure. Time will tell, I suppose. But, if you base your future expectations on past performance, I'm not sure Herm isn't the worst coach in the league right now. I mean, who would be worse?

FAX

Reaper16
09-03-2008, 02:19 PM
The ST blocking was HORRIBLE in Herm's first season. Dante still took one to the house and almost had another one.

But hey we are in MUCH better shape now starting from damn near the ****in 20yd line everytime someone kicks off to us.
Do you remember how bad Dante was in his last Chiefs season? He showed a complete inability to go north/south. He was moving laterally way too much, trying to force an amazing return out of nothing every time. He had the dropsies, too.

wasi
09-03-2008, 02:25 PM
Nope but Herm is responsible for suitable replacements.. Turley and McIntosh are not sutible replacements...

I'm not defending Herm as he has a lot to prove with this current direction of the team but it was Peterson who admitted it was his mistake to assume they could get by with the Oline last season.

chiefbowe82
09-03-2008, 02:35 PM
The lose of the electifying dante hall should have no effect? teams kicked it out of bounce on kickoffs just to avoid him returning it, great for reverses, speed. the lose of the best back in the league at the time down with an injury Priest Holmes didn't hurt, the lose of Trent Green due to a concussion didn't hurt? The retirements of Will Shields, and Willie Roaf didn't hurt? Welbourn getting caught with roids and his suspensions, and playing clean didn't hurt? Weigmann just fell off the deep end. Totally converting from the oldest offense to youngest shouldn't hurt either. The lose of Al Saunders shouldn't hurt and hiring a mental retard offensive line coach for coordinator shouldn't hurt? We did fill the temporary o-line retirements holes up terribly though. How about the best fullback in football? nope instead we put bigfoot there

Lzen
09-03-2008, 02:41 PM
That was a pretty good piece. I am not completely ready to throw Herm under the bus. Not yet. But he has been a major problem. Although I don't completely agree with everything he typed, I think CoMo did a pretty good job of summing it up. It was a combination of things but a lot of the blame has to go to Herm.

I am still willing to give him the benefit of doubt for now. One thing that I do believe Herm has done well is drafting. That is one area that CoMo and I apparently disagree. Frankly, I would not mind if the Chiefs demoted Herm to a scout. :) If this team does not show any kind of improvement in the next year or two, Herm should be on the first bus to Timbuktu.

chiefsngop
09-03-2008, 02:45 PM
Does anyone remember what happened when Teflon Herm Edwards brought his Jets to Arrowhead Stadium ? I do. My throat was hoarse from cheering, and my hands sore from clapping. It was like arena ball...........

If Herm is such a great coach, and this team was truly collapsing when he arrived, why didn't he start the great rebuilding effort from day one ?

KCCHIEFS27
09-03-2008, 02:47 PM
Okay, great we went from really good(vermeil) to horrible(Herm). Now let's switch the view to the defense..we went from PATHETIC(Vermeil) to above average(Herm). Not only that, but this guy is actually claiming that Damon Huard is a GOOD quarterback...what the hell? This guy is an idiot.

Baby Lee
09-03-2008, 02:52 PM
Chiefs without Roaf, Shields, Holmes, Richardson and Green.

About the same as the Cowboys without Newton, Stepnoski, Smith, Johnston and Aikman.

bogey
09-03-2008, 03:03 PM
I was dropping my kid off at her first day of fifth grade this morning. One of my buddies a HUGE Jets fan came up to me and was excited about the count down to football. I told him I'm excited because, finally after several years of suckage, we're trying to rebuild. I don't expect a great season, but we're finally moving in the right direction. He patted me on the back with sympathy and said I have four letters. H E R M

CoMoChief
09-03-2008, 03:03 PM
Do you remember how bad Dante was in his last Chiefs season? He showed a complete inability to go north/south. He was moving laterally way too much, trying to force an amazing return out of nothing every time. He had the dropsies, too.

Can't go anywhere when no one is blocking for you.

It's not that hard to figure out.

Fact: We are in much worse shape now without Dante than we were before.

CoMoChief
09-03-2008, 03:04 PM
Does anyone remember what happened when Teflon Herm Edwards brought his Jets to Arrowhead Stadium ? I do. My throat was hoarse from cheering, and my hands sore from clapping. It was like arena ball...........

If Herm is such a great coach, and this team was truly collapsing when he arrived, why didn't he start the great rebuilding effort from day one ?

Carl

CoMoChief
09-03-2008, 03:05 PM
Chiefs without Roaf, Shields, Holmes, Richardson and Green.

About the same as the Cowboys without Newton, Stepnoski, Smith, Johnston and Aikman.

Except those Dallas teams had about just as many probowlers on the othe side of the ball as well.

Hammock Parties
09-03-2008, 03:07 PM
Over the last two years in Kansas City, Huard has completed 354 of 576 passes (61.5%) for 4,135 yards, 7.2 YPA, 22 TDs, 14 INTs, and an 85.7 passer rating in 18 starts (9-9).

BOW DOWN, HATERS. BOW BEFORE DOWNFIELD!

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/02Zb3Bwdfnex8/610x.jpg

Baby Lee
09-03-2008, 03:09 PM
Except those Dallas teams had about just as many probowlers on the othe side of the ball as well.

Well, yeah . . .

Are you new here, or just had me on ignore. I'm the guy who advocated fielding our _efense in field hockey skirts back in DV's days.

T-post Tom
09-03-2008, 03:17 PM
hates everything and anything associated with the JETS. Including Herm. I'm not a Herm apologist or his biggest fan, but the author of the article didn't mention Solari once in the article. Do we really know who hired Solari? Did Peterson and/or Hunt ram the hiring down Herm's throat? We just don't know. My guess is that it was another Arrowhead case of loyalty prevailing over common sense. O-line coaches generally don't make the best OCs. I think that Solari was given autonomy on the play-calling and was the main problem regarding the offensive scheme and play-calling. I'm willing to give Herm this season to prove his salt. Herm is not unlike Dick Vermeil in that he should have an experienced coordinator on the side of the ball that he doesn't specialize in. He has that now in Gailey. That's just MHO, but I'm much more confident with Gailey over Solari. The Herm-haters may well be proven right after this season. If so, I'll be the first to jump on the bandwagon for a new head coach after this season. If not, maybe we'll all be a little more optimistic on the prospect of success in the playoffs. This season's bottom line for Herm's tenure: appropriate development of current players, overall prudent play-calling on both sides of the ball and no less than six wins.

Back to the original post. Here's an excerpt that exposes the tactics of Kerry J. Byrne(Cold Hard Football Facts.com). Some might say that they're not far removed from the tactics of KC's own Jason Whitlock. (i.e. "Sack the Hack"; 810 exodus, 610 exodus, ESPN exodus, etc.)


...Earlier this year, Byrne’s site famously partnered with Bruce Allen’s Boston Sports Media Watch to compose an open letter titled “Fire Ron Borges.” The screed, which ran nearly 5,000 words (slightly longer than the U.S. Constitution), attacked Borges for being a “tactless hack” who “lacks objectivity” and “makes things up,” and is “wrong about virtually everything.” It accused Borges of being a “bully” and “culturally insensitive.” It stopped short of implying that he drop-kicks orphans and donates money to Hamas, but not by much.
...
The crux of Byrne and Allen’s piece—which ran on both men’s websites—dealt with what they perceive to be unreasonable anti-Pats animus on the part of Borges. Specifically, they wanted to know how Borges could criticize Belichick when he’s won three Super Bowls. As further evidence of Borges’s bias, they quoted the following exchange from a radio appearance on 1510 AM:

Caller: “Most of us trust ...he’s got a little bit of a track record around here.”
Borges: “Yeah, well, Emperor Hirohito had a big lead in the early days, too.”

“At least I didn’t call him Hitler,” Borges says. “Sure, I’ve said things that would’ve been best left unsaid. I think I have a sense of humor that’s not for everybody. Sometimes I wish I had a better filter. But then I wouldn’t be where I am. Or it would be phony. And that’s worse to me.”

[B]The main objective of Byrne and Allen’s piece was to solicit e-mails demanding Borges’s immediate dismissal. (Byrne says he received about 1,000 e-mails, all of which were also sent to the Globe; the paper contends the number is closer to a few hundred.) It was talk radio fodder for weeks. Still is, from time to time. Byrne, for one, refuses to let it die. “Borges lets his dislike for Belichick and the Pats cloud his judgment and how he covers the team,” he says.

“It’s not personal,” says Borges. “I don’t know Belichick well enough for it to be personal. He’s a great coach. But there’s not much else that’s redeeming about him—which will get me in trouble with people, but it’s true. People beat me up for saying I’d rather have Tony Dungy as my coach.” Borges has been touting the relative merits of the non–Super Bowl–winning coach for years, much to the frothing displeasure of local fans. “How many times do I have to say it? Dungy has never been on the front page of a tabloid newspaper for something other than football. That’s why I’d take him over Belichick.”

Between sips of his smoothie, Borges stops walloping Belichick long enough to show off the football knowledge that has propelled him into one of the top newspaper jobs in town. With professorial aplomb, he explains the intricacies of running pass routes, of why it’s not always the quarterback’s fault when a ball is thrown short and incomplete. Maybe the receiver ran 14 yards when he was supposed to go 11. The lesson is thorough (if a bit dry), and points to the fact that it’s not all bluster with Borges. He’s gained infamy, sure, but also respect. Since 1999, he’s been named the state’s sportswriter of the year five times by the National Sportswriters and Sportscasters Association.

“No one in Boston knows more about the NFL than Ron Borges,” writes Globe sports editor Joe Sullivan in an e-mail. Even Borges’s peers concede this point. “If you have no knowledge behind what you’re saying, if you’re just throwing bombs, that loses its impact really quick,” says Mike Felger, the Herald’s Pats beat writer. “Ron knows things. He talks to people. He’s been covering the team for a while.”http://www.bostonmagazine.com/articles/mr_popularity/

CoMoChief
09-03-2008, 03:21 PM
Well, yeah . . .

Are you new here, or just had me on ignore. I'm the guy who advocated fielding our _efense in field hockey skirts back in DV's days.

:D

King_Chief_Fan
09-03-2008, 03:39 PM
Blame Solari and all the other stuff if you want.
If Chan's offense turns out to be the sputter putt the Chiefs had last year we can rightfully claim Herm as the great destroyer of offenses (on the teams he coaches). He is the reason for Croyles piss poor play and confidence as well. Who in their right mind would let Dick Curl coach their QB?

Zouk
09-03-2008, 03:53 PM
So stupid. A coach who makes the playoffs 4 times in 7 years is the worst in football? Any douchebag can have a website nowadays.

Hammock Parties
09-03-2008, 03:56 PM
On a more serious note, this is absurdity. Herm is not an elite head coach, but he's nowhere near the worst in the league. I'd say he's a slightly above average head coach who needs an elite player to put him over the hump.

MGRS13
09-03-2008, 04:09 PM
On a more serious note, this is absurdity. Herm is not an elite head coach, but he's nowhere near the worst in the league. I'd say he's a slightly above average head coach who needs an elite player to put him over the hump.

An elite player? He needs an elite team to ignore him. Plus two elite coaches to run the offense and defense for him.

Coach
09-03-2008, 04:40 PM
On a more serious note, this is absurdity. Herm is not an elite head coach, but he's nowhere near the worst in the league. I'd say he's a slightly above average head coach who needs an elite player to put him over the hump.

Disagree. Herm is below average to failure.

jrowe
09-03-2008, 04:43 PM
An elite player? He needs an elite team to ignore him. Plus two elite coaches to run the offense and defense for him.

QFT!!!!!!!!!!

Little Bigfoot
09-03-2008, 04:45 PM
If the Chiefs have a losing season, but get hot and show improvement towards the end of the season , that should buy Herm some time. But, if we go down in flames , he should feel the boot in the ass.

Skip Towne
09-03-2008, 04:46 PM
QFT!!!!!!!!!!

Yep, above average coaches don't have losing records.

smittysbar
09-03-2008, 04:50 PM
An elite player? He needs an elite team to ignore him. Plus two elite coaches to run the offense and defense for him.

:thumb: rep

Hammock Parties
09-03-2008, 04:53 PM
Yep, above average coaches don't have losing records.

How do you explain Belichick's LOSING record in Cleveland?

Deberg_1990
09-03-2008, 05:08 PM
How do you explain Belichick's LOSING record in Cleveland?

He was actually better than hes given credit for there.

They went to the playoffs twice and his last season there fell apart once it was announced They were moving the team. Not his fault.

OnTheWarpath15
09-03-2008, 05:16 PM
He was actually better than hes given credit for there.

They went to the playoffs twice and his last season there fell apart once it was announced They were moving the team. Not his fault.

And going through 4 QB's in 2005 was Herm's fault?

Oddly enough, Herm's been to the playoffs FOUR times in seven years. Which is more than two, last I checked.

Bit of a double standard...

Coach
09-03-2008, 05:19 PM
My reasoning for why Herm is a failure.

1. Remember this article? (http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/16406684.htm)

- Only a f**king moron could take over this team, watch the offense flop, then blame the SYSTEM for it. I mean... the offensive system has always been a problem, right? At the time, the scheme was not the goddamn problem, the players already know it and set RECORDS WITH IT. How in the hell can you simplify a offense, if we don't even have a goddamn playaction that was non-existiant in the first place? And of course, now our offense is EXACTLY what Herm wants, a GOOD NFL EUROPE offense instead of an ACTUAL NFL OFFENSE.

I guess this quote sums up well, eh?

"When we score seven points, I’ll say we’re slow starting. If we score 21 points, I’ll say, ‘Whoa, we scored a lot of points.’ Twenty-one points – that’s a lot of points. Thirty points? That isn’t even a football game. That’s Arena Football. We’re talking about real football.”

2. Clock-management skills is horrible.

- Last time I checked, he's still the ONLY NFL coach to have a clock management coach, yet we all wonder why he still sucks at it? Come on man, if you have a clock management coach, you sure as hell don't belong in the NFL. Case in point, during the playoffs when the Chiefs needed a score and in a hurry, I was screaming at the TV during the game to hurry the f**k up!

9 minutes left and the Chiefs were lazily huddling and walking to the line of scrimmage....it was f**king disgusting, and Herm just stood their with that stupid f**king "Herm" look on his stupid f**king Herm face. I KNEW we're f**ked.

The object of the game off football on offense is to score a TD everytime you have the ball. Belichick knows this, Herman Edwards and the rest of the coaching staff doesn't.

Case in point. New England is up 42-10, 1 minute left in the 3rd quarter, heading to the 4th quarter. It's 4th quarter, 4 and 1 on the Buffalo 10.....and goes for it, adding ANOTHER TD 3 plays later.

On the same day, earlier, 1:15 left until halftime, with 3 TO's left, tie score vs the defending champs, Herman F**king Edwards goes to the locker room. Another play, 8 minutes left, tie score, 3rd and long and a submitting draw play/punt.

Something reeks here.

3. Firing assistant coaches who did NOT deserved to be fired, and hanging on to assistant coaches who has no business of being in the NFL.

- Explain to me why Terry Shea deserved to be fired in 2007 and replaced by Dickless Curling? After Trent having a MVP-like for almost 4 seasons, and not to mention that despite Damon's limitations and all, that Damon looked like a actual f**king QB, Terry Shea was replaced by Dickless Curling, who has no business of being in the NFL. Explain to me why Mike Priefer is still coaching for the special teams, when it's obvious that our special teams play have majorly sucked ass the last two years? I can go on and on on this subject, but i'll just leave it as this.

4. Lacks accountability/authority.

- Everybody remembered the HBO Hard Knocks fiasco where Herm and Dickless Curling was wanting to go with Brodie, but somehow Kingless Carla meddled into the situation perferring that Damon Horrid start the season. Even when it was CLEARLY obvious that pre-season that Croyle was outperforming Damon Horrid, Horrid somehow got the starting job. Huh? Of course it's obvious that Carl wanted Damon Horrid to be the starter becuase he KNOWS that he's in deep s**t already with the fans. He KNOWS that the Chiefs are going to suck this year, regardless of if it's Huard or Croyle back there. Carl is trying to save face, and hope for a 9-7 so he can just raise the f**king ticket prices, AGAIN! So, Herman F**king Edwards should had told him "F**k you, I'm starting Croyle, and if you don't like it, kiss my ass."

Even if it means Herm losing his job, I would have a hell of a respect for Herm if he grew some balls and went after Carl on that situation.

And when things goes wrong on the team, Herm does not accept the responsbility that a Head Coach should. He just either pass it to others or to the players, or well known as throwing others under the bus.

And finally, I'll never get over the "Get over it! It happens. It’s called life" comment. Motherf**ker should had been fired right after that press conference.

Rasputin
09-03-2008, 05:29 PM
I still blame Carl Peterson for not having a plan or drafting a LT & RG while big Willie & Will Shields were playing. He had plenty of time to prepare for those two to retire. Good or elite Franchise retool not rebuild. Carl Peterson imo never wanted a youth movement but uses it as a cruch now for excuses.

milkman
09-03-2008, 05:32 PM
Herman ****ing Edwards sucks ass, but not for the reasons cited in this article.

Skip Towne
09-03-2008, 05:33 PM
How do you explain Belichick's LOSING record in Cleveland?

He doesn't have one now does he? Herm just continues downhill. If Herm is above average where is average? 20 games under .500? Even you should know better than that.

OnTheWarpath15
09-03-2008, 05:34 PM
Herman ****ing Edwards sucks ass, but not for the reasons cited in this article.

Dis man speaks 'da troof.

milkman
09-03-2008, 05:35 PM
I still blame Carl Peterson for not having a plan or drafting a LT & RG while big Willie & Will Shields were playing. He had plenty of time to prepare for those two to retire. Good or elite Franchise retool not rebuild. Carl Peterson imo never wanted a youth movement but uses it as a cruch now for excuses.

I blame Lamar Hunt for allowing Carl to stay on and conntinue to do the same things, year after year, after they had already failed, over and over.

HemiEd
09-03-2008, 05:37 PM
He come all the Herm defenders crying about Willie Roaf Retiring...

I have been making the same point as this article for 3 years. You are right, the offense would have stayed #1 if Willie Roaf had not retired. Herm should carry no blame. :spock:

JuicesFlowing
09-03-2008, 05:42 PM
Good coaches recover quickly from that misfortune. I'm embarrassed to display my Chiefs garb......

Then change teams. Why are you a Chiefs fan?

Rasputin
09-03-2008, 05:43 PM
I blame Lamar Hunt for allowing Carl to stay on and conntinue to do the same things, year after year, after they had already failed, over and over.

Sad isn't it. All the BS Carl Peterson has done over the years the list goes on and I get upset thinking bout it too much. Just the way he handled Neil Smith alone should have gotten him fired. We never had a long term QB just a quick fix old banged up rejected QB year after year. Nothing stable either our defense was good but not the offense, or our offense was good but our defense sucked!

Mr. Plow
09-03-2008, 05:51 PM
I liked that article. Made me feel better.

milkman
09-03-2008, 06:03 PM
I have been making the same point as this article for 3 years. You are right, the offense would have stayed #1 if Willie Roaf had not retired. Herm should carry no blame. :spock:

Herman ****ing Edwards deserves some blame.

Hiring Mike Solari (whether or not he was forced on him is a debate for another day), then handcuffing him, hiring Dick Curl, running LJ into teh ground, etc.

However, laying all the blame at Herman ****ing Edwards feet ignores the fact that Dick Vermeil and Carl sucked ass in the draft, failing not only to fix the defense, but spending so many picks on that defense, and allowing the O-Line to grow old without any viable replacements.

The offense, under Dick, did what it did because it had one of the greatest O-Lines, ever.

Reerun_KC
09-03-2008, 06:03 PM
Herm is on the same coaching level as Rich Kotite...

Reerun_KC
09-03-2008, 06:06 PM
I have been making the same point as this article for 3 years. You are right, the offense would have stayed #1 if Willie Roaf had not retired. Herm should carry no blame. :spock:
Nice Try big ED...

But the fact remains that Herm cannot and will not have a productive Offense...

Give him the Chiefs of 2005 and he would of destroyed that recorded setting offense in less than a full season...

If Herm has no blame, then why hasnt he fixed the OL yet. IF he is so ****ing great at judging talent....

Buzzsaw
09-03-2008, 06:23 PM
Herm would be a great college coach. All his rah-rah bulls**t would probably be really effective in recruiting talented young guys. And he is a good motivator. But he's not cut out to be an NFL HC. I'm surprised there's still supporters out there....

Coach
09-03-2008, 06:25 PM
Herm would be a great college coach. All his rah-rah bulls**t would probably be really effective in recruiting talented young guys. And he is a good motivator. But he's not cut out to be an NFL HC. I'm surprised there's still supporters out there....

Nah. Again, the big problem with Herm is that his football philosophy is severely out-dated. He runs the ball to open the passing game. That doesn't work anymore. You have to pass in order to open the running game.

He'd get slaughtered, just like Greg Robinson for Syracuse is right now.

Reerun_KC
09-03-2008, 06:27 PM
Nah. Again, the big problem with Herm is that his football philosophy is severely out-dated. He runs the ball to open the passing game. That doesn't work anymore. You have to pass in order to open the running game.

He'd get slaughtered, just like Greg Robinson for Syracuse is right now.
Yeah I cant see Herm running a spread offense in college...

Guys like Meyer, Pinkel, Big Twinkie (Mangino) and others would run him right out of the stadium on saturdays...

Coach
09-03-2008, 06:34 PM
Yeah I cant see Herm running a spread offense in college...

Guys like Meyer, Pinkel, Big Twinkie (Mangino) and others would run him right out of the stadium on saturdays...

No different than the guys in the NFL doing the same thing on Sundays.

Mecca
09-03-2008, 06:34 PM
The point of the article is that "no matter what has been lost look what they still have, they have no excuse to be this bad on offense and the reason they are is Herm Edwards horrible philosophy"

I don't see how that makes it a bad article it's true, Herm wants to play offense like it's 1967.

People can defend Herm all they want the truth is the man is a shitty coach that refuses to adapt.

Tribal Warfare
09-03-2008, 06:37 PM
And finally, I'll never get over the "Get over it! It happens. It’s called life" comment. Motherf**ker should had been fired right after that press conference.

That comment reminded me of "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." - Vince Lombardi


Which is sad

milkman
09-03-2008, 06:38 PM
The point of the article is that "no matter what has been lost look what they still have, they have no excuse to be this bad on offense and the reason they are is Herm Edwards horrible philosophy"

I don't see how that makes it a bad article it's true, Herm wants to play offense like it's 1967.

People can defend Herm all they want the truth is the man is a shitty coach that refuses to adapt.

It's a bad article because it does balme Herman ****ing Edwards entirely for the total decline of the offense, and that simply isn't the case.

Reerun_KC
09-03-2008, 06:40 PM
It's a bad article because it does balme Herman ****ing Edwards entirely for the total decline of the offense, and that simply isn't the case.
True Milkman, but Herm hasnt helped his cause any......

milkman
09-03-2008, 06:44 PM
True Milkman, but Herm hasnt helped his cause any......

No he hasn't.

I just believe that you should be fair when you critisize a player or coach.

I can't stand Herman ****ing Edwards, and don't think he will ever get this team to where we want to go, but I like to think that I critisize him, and evertyone else, fairly.

Coach
09-03-2008, 06:46 PM
No he hasn't.

I just believe that you should be fair when you critisize a player or coach.

I can't stand Herman ****ing Edwards, and don't think he will ever get this team to where we want to go, but I like to think that I critisize him, and evertyone else, fairly.

I like to think my criticism was fair on that lengthy post I made.

smittysbar
09-03-2008, 06:55 PM
I like to think my criticism was fair on that lengthy post I made.

It was a great post

Chief Pote
09-03-2008, 06:56 PM
then kindly **** off, sir.

Sooo, you're proud? You have blinders on. You can keep Herm Edwards. How long have you been a fan youngster?

milkman
09-03-2008, 06:56 PM
I like to think my criticism was fair on that lengthy post I made.

I didn't read.

I have a short attention span.











Joking.

I thought you were spot on.

Rausch
09-03-2008, 06:58 PM
It's a bad article because it does balme Herman ****ing Edwards entirely for the total decline of the offense, and that simply isn't the case.

Of course it is.

Herm is like Rep/Dem or Ford/Chevy.

People will invent ways to hate the other argument.

DT58HOF
09-03-2008, 08:05 PM
I'm not defending Herm as he has a lot to prove with this current direction of the team but it was Peterson who admitted it was his mistake to assume they could get by with the Oline last season.
so this year they got Albert and nobodyelse, so they are just gonna try to get by with nothing again?
im so damn confused rebuild this rebuild that, spend some money and make a few trades. Are OL SUCKS!!!!

Larry Johnson, Herm, CARL, 3 footballs and two kicking tees for a Sarting tackle under 28 years old, where do we sign?

Mr. Flopnuts
09-03-2008, 08:11 PM
You can lay the blame for KC's woeful offense at the feet of Mike Solari and Mike Solari only.

Coach
09-03-2008, 08:15 PM
You can lay the blame for KC's woeful offense at the feet of Mike Solari and Mike Solari only.

Not necessarly. It is Herm's fault for hiring him in the first place. And even that, how much did Herm "influence" the offense is another question.

TEX
09-03-2008, 08:21 PM
Man Herm Blows...:shake:

smittysbar
09-03-2008, 08:30 PM
You can lay the blame for KC's woeful offense at the feet of Mike Solari and Mike Solari only.

Solari was running Herms Offense

The Bad Guy
09-03-2008, 08:38 PM
ROFL

Funniest part is, I'm not even a herm defender, but come on...

Without Roaf, you have the '01 chiefs. Without Roaf and Shields, you have the '06-'07 Chiefs. It doesn't take einstein to figure that much out. Football's a game won and lost in the trenches, always has been always will be.

Herm's problem is that he had two years to fix that line and he didn't, not until this offseason. If the offense is any better in '08, along with Gailey instead of Solari, it'll be because Albert's a decent player and they found a right tackle not named McIntosh.

The idea that this is somehow what Herm wants? I just don't see it.

Stop trying to explain logic to that moron.

He hates Herm. Herm is responsible for all that's evil in the world. The guy thinks that when an all-world LT retires, it's no big deal.

As I said in another post, he's hands down the dumbest prick on this message board.

Mike Nolan is hands down the worst NFL head coacn and it's not even a contest.

Coach
09-03-2008, 08:40 PM
Stop trying to explain logic to that moron.

He hates Herm. Herm is responsible for all that's evil in the world. The guy thinks that when an all-world LT retires, it's no big deal.

As I said in another post, he's hands down the dumbest prick on this message board.

Mike Nolan is hands down the worst NFL head coacn and it's not even a contest.

Eh, it is debateable in terms of who's the worst coach, but I can agree to the fact that Nolan is ONE of the worst 5 NFL coaches.

The Bad Guy
09-03-2008, 08:40 PM
Herm is on the same coaching level as Rich Kotite...

You are on the same posting level as Tommykat.

Rain Man
09-03-2008, 08:42 PM
There's a reason I traveled all the way to Madagascar to create my avatar.

jspchief
09-03-2008, 09:22 PM
There's a lot of factors behind the position the Chiefs are currently in.

But IMO, one of the biggest is the near success of Vermeil. He built an all world offense, with a no-show defense. The team responded with countless failed attempts to shore up that D, while ignoring the age of the O. By default, we held on to that aging offense for too long, because anything else would have been a drastic drop in production.

You ignore the O while consistently failing to build a D... then one day it all catches up to you and you have to start from scratch.

Herm Edwards had to make chicken salad out of a mix of chicken shit and old chicken. So far he has failed at that, but he has seemed to pick up a few nice eggs in the attempt to get better ingredients.

Chiefnj2
09-03-2008, 09:36 PM
Any other team in recent history go from the #1 offense to #31 offense in two years?

RibKing67
09-03-2008, 09:43 PM
I vote Mike Nolan.
With a vice worst coach- Norv Turner

Skip Towne
09-03-2008, 09:44 PM
You are on the same posting level as Tommykat.

:LOL: The guy is truly an idiot. He should be expelled from Oklahoma.

FAX
09-03-2008, 09:44 PM
LOLOROLORRR

I forgot about Norv. Although, he's had a little more success lately than our boy. We'll have to keep an eye on that race.

FAX

Skip Towne
09-03-2008, 09:48 PM
Any other team in recent history go from the #1 offense to #31 offense in two years?

This is a very good question. Has this ever been done before? Stats nuts?

BigRock
09-03-2008, 09:50 PM
It is Herm's fault for hiring him in the first place.

Making Solari the coordinator was the only way the Saunders offense was going to stay in KC. If Herm had come in and brought in somebody new to change the offense right off the bat, 88 and Rerun and all these guys would have marched on Arrowhead, poured gasoline on their bodies, and set themselves on fire in protest.

Actually, when I think about it that way, Herm definitely should have hired someone else.

jspchief
09-03-2008, 09:52 PM
Any other team in recent history go from the #1 offense to #31 offense in two years?The Raiders went from #1 to #25 in one year. The Rams saw a pretty good drop-off for a while.

From #1-#31? probably not. But it's silly to act like Edwards the only factor.

RibKing67
09-03-2008, 09:53 PM
Making Solari the coordinator was the only way the Saunders offense was going to stay in KC. If Herm had come in and brought in somebody new to change the offense right off the bat, 88 and Rerun and all these guys would have marched on Arrowhead, poured gasoline on their bodies, and set themselves on fire in protest.

Actually, when I think about it that way, Herm definitely should have hired someone else.

If I remember right when Herm started a HC he was not allowed, by King Carl, to make any movements in the OC and DC positions.

I may be wrong but I think we owe alot of this to King Carl not so much to Herm when it comes to asst. coaches.

Chiefnj2
09-03-2008, 09:54 PM
The Raiders went from #1 to #25 in one year. The Rams saw a pretty good drop-off for a while.

From #1-#31? probably not. But it's silly to act like Edwards the only factor.

Edwards isn't the only factor, but he is the main factor. Other teams suffer injuries and lose LOT's and linemen and they don't fall apart like KC did.

Boris The Great
09-03-2008, 10:02 PM
Other teams suffer injuries and lose LOTs and linemen and they dont fall apart like KC did.

Name some. Just name one. Name a team that had a highly ranked offense with a Pro Bowl QB and HOF left tackle, unexpectedly lost both those players the next season, and still maintained their production.

jspchief
09-03-2008, 10:03 PM
Edwards isn't the only factor, but he is the main factor. Other teams suffer injuries and lose LOT's and linemen and they don't fall apart like KC did.IMO, age is the main factor.

I don't believe Edwards' main concern is building the #1 offense, no question. He's as much as said that. But for the first two years, he was basically forced to hold onto a flower that was dead on the vine. Factor his philosophy in with a bunch of players that are past their prime and it's a recipe for the precipitous drop that we had.

I'm not sure Edwards will ever be a great HC. I think his conservative style isn't going to work in today's NFL. But I also don't think he's anywhere close to the worst in the league, and I think looking at offensive ranking to make that argument, while ignoring all the other factors is stat cherry-picking at it's worst.

FAX
09-03-2008, 10:14 PM
IMO, age is the main factor.

I don't believe Edwards' main concern is building the #1 offense, no question. He's as much as said that. But for the first two years, he was basically forced to hold onto a flower that was dead on the vine. Factor his philosophy in with a bunch of players that are past their prime and it's a recipe for the precipitous drop that we had.

I'm not sure Edwards will ever be a great HC. I think his conservative style isn't going to work in today's NFL. But I also don't think he's anywhere close to the worst in the league, and I think looking at offensive ranking to make that argument, while ignoring all the other factors is stat cherry-picking at it's worst.

Excellent point there, Mr. jspchief. There's a whole lotta lumpin' goin' on.

All too often, peeps tend to point to one factor or event as the cornerstone of our demise. It wasn't. A perfect storm of sh*t hit the Chiefs. If anything, you have to look at Admiral Carl Peterson who is the one constant through the last 20 years of this miserable journey through the backwaters of the league. It is, after all, his responsibility to look beyond the head coach du jour to ensure that we have talent in the queue. Since, in the end, it's talent on the field that makes the difference. I remain convinced that we have proven to be hapless at the job of developing young players into a fleet of NFL-caliber contributors. Add one of the worst drafting records in history and your battleship is eventually sunk and collecting barnacles (and those creepy sponge things that are really animals) at the bottom.

FAX

Mecca
09-03-2008, 10:28 PM
Worst coach......Herm's in the mix, it's with guys like Nolan, Whisenhunt, Lane Kiffin I think those are probably the bottom 4.

Predarat
09-03-2008, 10:41 PM
If the Chiefs implimented the Wing-T it would be an imporvement.

Chiefnj2
09-03-2008, 10:42 PM
Worst coach......Herm's in the mix, it's with guys like Nolan, Whisenhunt, Lane Kiffin I think those are probably the bottom 4.

You just don't like Whisenhunt because he isn't fellating your boy from USC.

Chiefnj2
09-03-2008, 10:44 PM
Name some. Just name one. Name a team that had a highly ranked offense with a Pro Bowl QB and HOF left tackle, unexpectedly lost both those players the next season, and still maintained their production.

Roaf was old and both he and Shields had talked about retirement before. It wasn't a complete surprise they would need to be replaced. I'm still waiting for another team that went from 1 to 31 in two years.

Mr. Plow
09-04-2008, 06:51 AM
Herm dismantled this offense faster than Mangino eats gravy.

FringeNC
09-04-2008, 06:58 AM
Glad an outsider takes the same view as a few of us on here who haven't bought into the Ministry of Truth's propaganda.

Reerun_KC
09-04-2008, 07:15 AM
:LOL: The guy is truly an idiot. He should be expelled from Oklahoma.

Well at least I dont live in around Tulsa........

TEX
09-04-2008, 07:42 AM
So stupid. A coach who makes the playoffs 4 times in 7 years is the worst in football? Any douchebag can have a website nowadays.

What about two 4-12 seasons as well? What about a career LOSING record? I get sooooo sick of people giving Herm all the credit here and NONE of the responsibility for past failures. Take his playoff appearance with the Chiefs - it's HIS playoff team but it's DV's team that was old and going down hill fast...Whatever - Herm is not the worst coach but he's easily closer to the bottem than the middle of the pack IMO. I can't believe we actually had to give up a draft pick for the guy when he was going to get fired. :shake:

Baby Lee
09-04-2008, 07:53 AM
Roaf was old and both he and Shields had talked about retirement before. It wasn't a complete surprise they would need to be replaced. I'm still waiting for another team that went from 1 to 31 in two years.

Seattle went from 2 to 19 and Denver went from 5 to 21 in 1 season from 2006-2007.

angelo
09-04-2008, 08:08 AM
“I think these guys are embarrassed about the way they played… Why it happened I don’t know.”

- Chiefs Coach Herm Edwards, who doesn’t know these things.

“Well. Yeah. We’d like to score when we get into the Red Zone. That’s going to be our deal.”

- Edwards, unveiling the keystone of his bold new plan.

“Well, I don’t know about that. We have an idea. You’re talking now, in my opinion, it’s not 53 it’s 60. Because of the practice squad. So it’s 60 in my mind. It’s how do you develop 60 guys. Out of the guys you’re going to keep, who is the 53rd guy and then from there, who is the eighth guy that makes up 60?”

- Herm, adding. KCChiefs.com

Need I say more

Ang

FringeNC
09-04-2008, 08:09 AM
by the way, the folks that produce the respected Football Prospectus pretty much echo these comments about Herm. I'll put together a list of their jabs on Herm at some point.

It really all comes down to one major point for all the critics of Herm Edwards -- Herm Edwards is such an extreme play-not-to-lose coach that he can't be successful in today's game. Either Herm Edwards adapts a la Marty Schottenheimer, or Herm will soon be an ex-NFL head coach.

Mecca
09-04-2008, 08:16 AM
by the way, the folks that produce the respected Football Prospectus pretty much echo these comments about Herm. I'll put together a list of their jabs on Herm at some point.

It really all comes down to one major point for all the critics of Herm Edwards -- Herm Edwards is such an extreme play-not-to-lose coach that he can't be successful in today's game. Either Herm Edwards adapts a la Marty Schottenheimer, or Herm will soon be an ex-NFL head coach.

Generally when someone is widely thought of as being a horrendous head coach by so many different sources that would lead you to believe that he is.

Buzz
10-14-2008, 03:44 PM
Bump for Herm... He is losing the Team.