Babb: The answer at QB?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Pretty well thought out piece, other than thinking we can get to 8 wins this year...




http://chiefsblog.kansascity.com/?q=node/250


The Chiefs' answer at quarterback?

Brodie Croyle's injury casts doubt on his viability as the Chiefs' starting quarterback and whether the 25-year-old can withstand the weekly beatings he'll take as a team's regular passer.

Herm Edwards won't say the Chiefs are beginning to have doubts that Croyle is their quarterback of the future, but his third injury in seven starts came this past Sunday. It's a good bet they've begun thinking of their options if Croyle has trouble healing from his separated right shoulder or is injured again this season.

Just for kicks, here's one option that will never happen but would be interesting. The Chiefs could trade next year's second- or even first-round draft pick for Brady Quinn, the Cleveland Browns backup who's likely to remain the backup for a long time after starter Derek Anderson signed a $24 million contract this summer.

This is only speculation. There are no sources or facts that suggest this could happen. The Chiefs aren't ready to give up on Croyle. The front office isn't the type to pull the trigger on an impulsive deal, and that's a smart strategy most times.

Here's why this would be a time to break from that philosophy:

Why wait to draft a first-round QB? If Croyle is out for an extended period or if he does not return to top form or if he just isn't the quarterback the Chiefs hope he is, it's a good bet they'll be looking for a quarterback in next year's draft. Some of next year's top options, as of now, are juniors Matt Stafford of Georgia and Tim Tebow of Florida. While those are elite quarterbacks, both would be a gamble, like many young quarterbacks, and likely would burn what likely will be the Chiefs' top-five pick. If you're going to gamble on a young quarterback...

Wouldn't you rather have one with some experience? Unlike a draft pick, Quinn is NFL ready. The problem for the second-year passer is that he's buried under Anderson, and that's unlikely to change. Instead of hoping one of the drafted quarterbacks works out, and waiting at least a year for him to adjust to NFL speed and the Chiefs playbook, Quinn would offer immediate experience and, by many accounts, the leadership the Chiefs need. It's possible Quinn wouldn't be as talented as one of next year's top quarterbacks, but it's also possible a top draft pick wouldn't work out. That would be a devastating setback that some teams (San Francisco, Detroit, Houston) have experienced to horrendous results. If you trade next year's first-round pick to the Browns, a deal they would take in a second, you're acquiring the quarterback you already wanted but with two years' experience. You won't get that in the draft.

It might speed the growth process. Not of Quinn but of the other young Chiefs. Kansas City is deep in a rebuilding movement the team hopes will lead it to the playoffs in 2010. If you trade for Quinn, insert him tomorrow in the starting lineup, and he's successful, you expedite that process. A quarterback might not get the Chiefs into the playoffs, but that addition might help Kansas City take advantage of what appears to be a down AFC West and, heck, an entire conference dealing with injuries. If the Chiefs decide the quarterback position needs an upgrade, an experienced starter could help the team win eight or so games ... this year. That could turn into 10 wins in 2009, then maybe 12 wins in 2010. Herm Edwards keeps saying this young team needs to learn how to win. Winning now would be a powerful education for that young bunch.

The Chiefs can afford it -- and more. Kansas City has the most cap room in the NFL this season, but even if they didn't, adding Quinn wouldn't hurt as much as adding a top-five player next year. With salaries continuing to skyrocket, a top-five pick at quarterback in 2009 could cost the Chiefs five times more than Quinn's $7.75 million in guarantees. Remember, Matt Ryan's guaranteed money is $34.75 million, and he was this year's top quarterback. The savings would allow the Chiefs to upgrade another position when they needed it, through the draft or free agency. If drafting a quarterback next year will be the Chiefs' first-round plan, wouldn't a bargain sound nice?

The Browns likely would take the deal. Cleveland sees the 25-year-old Anderson as its quarterback of the future. He was a sixth-round pick who's blossomed into a terrific passer in an offense tailored for him. If they're set at the position, why would they want to pay a backup a base salary of $2 million a year? There are dozens of deals that could be done, using a combination of draft picks and/or current players. But for now, let's keep it simple. Assuming the Chiefs are likely to finish in the bottom fourth of the league again, the Browns might accept Kansas City's second-round pick because it would be near the top of the round. More likely, the Browns would want the Chiefs' first-rounder. Then it comes down to whether quarterback really is the Chiefs' top need next year, and whether they'd be willing to part with that first-round pick.

Kansas City would love it. During a year in which empty seats and television blackouts are possible, the Chiefs are looking for new ways to lure fans to Arrowhead Stadium. No player gets a fan base riled up like a quarterback, particularly a 23-year-old who looks the part and appears to have a bright future ahead. Quinn would fire up Chiefs fans like nothing has in years. A proactive approach takes pressure off Carl Peterson and Edwards, and the front office no longer has to worry about an unfilled stadium.

[KC kid]

I am in

[KCJohnny]

I was promoting this idea last year. The last QB we obtained from Cleveland that was rotting on their bench is in the Hall of Fame.

[Brock]

Cleveland sees the 25-year-old Anderson as its quarterback of the future.

I'm fairly certain they're going to make sure of this before they do anything rash. I doubt the Browns are going to listen to trade offers until after Anderson repeats his performance of last year.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I'm fairly certain they're going to make sure of this before they do anything rash. I doubt the Browns are going to listen to trade offers until after Anderson repeats his performance of last year.

I agree, and have said as much over the last week.

But this is the best thought out case FOR attempting to trade for Quinn, so I thought I'd throw it out there...

[Red Brooklyn]

Hello, all. I'm new to the board. From KC now living in NYC. This is my first post, and I wanted to chime in and say... Yes, yes, yes. How can we make this happen? I'm all for it.

[Rain Man]

I'd go for it for a 2nd. Maybe even something a little higher if there was some sort of multiple pick deal.

[Molitoth]

I would love to give Quinn a try.

[Rooster]

I'm fairly certain they're going to make sure of this before they do anything rash. I doubt the Browns are going to listen to trade offers until after Anderson repeats his performance of last year.

I agree. The Browns have to protect their best interest and make sure that Anderson just didn't have a freak season. It reminds me a lot of the Chargers situation with Brees and Rivers.

[old_geezer]

I would not give up a top 5 pick in next year's draft for Quinn (and I firmly believe that is what we will end up with). A 2nd maybe, but that's all. And I most likely would not use our 1st round pick on a QB. There will be better options waiting for us in the 1st. And, no, I don't think Croyle is the answer - I just don't want to give up that much for a "maybe".

[ChiefGator]

Hmm.. I find my self still a bit reticent to trade away a top ten pick. But, the argument certainly has merit. I haven't seen him play much, but I hope the Chiefs are pouring over every NFL play he has been.

[Frankie]

Can somebody post a video clip Quinn's throwing motion? He throws like a girl, complete with lifting his leg. Plus what has he done in college except for being hyped up because he played for Notre Dame? If the Croyle experiment does not pan out this year, my choice is going after someone like Stafford in the draft. I really don't think Quinn will amount to much in the pros.

[Otter]

I would love to give Quinn a try.

:thailor:

That was a well written article taking into account all sides of the equation. What's it doing posted here?

[doomy3]

I definitely wouldn't want to trade away a top 10 pick straight up for Quinn, but what about our top 10 pick for Quinn and Cleveland's first?

[RealSNR]

If we're drafting in the top 10 this year (a likely possibility) then we're gonna need something back in return. Maybe a 4th or 5th rounder?

Either way, yeah, I'd be in favor of this. As long as we can get a decent price for him draft pick-wise

[KCJohnny]

Hello, all. I'm new to the board. From KC now living in NYC. This is my first post, and I wanted to chime in and say... Yes, yes, yes. How can we make this happen? I'm all for it.

Welcome, Brooklyn. This is a cool site for Chiefs fans but it is littered with many sophomoric and irresponsible posters who levy personal attacks and pollute the atmosphere against dissent. Try to hang in the pocket and avoid the blitz. There are also some really good guys and knowledgable Chiefs fans here that are true believers.

Please come back frequently and ignore the "n00bs" commentary...

KCJ
:arrow:

[Hoover]

We can't give up a 1st for a dud taken in the bottom of round 1 who is unproven.

I'm all for it if its a 2nd rounder

[Hammock Parties]

I love the fact that the Star's blog allows Babb to flex his editorial muscle. Great stuff!

Quinn is a dick, though. I don't think Herm would like his personality.

[rtuimauga]

How about Colt Brennon? Is there any chance of trading for that guy?

[Nightfyre]

A second and a fourth. No more. We can then get an MLB/DE in the first round and pluck up a RG in the third. I'd be a happy camper.

[Red Brooklyn]

Welcome, Brooklyn. This is a cool site for Chiefs fans but it is littered with many sophomoric and irresponsible posters who levy personal attacks and pollute the atmosphere against dissent. Try to hang in the pocket and avoid the blitz. There are also some really good guys and knowledgable Chiefs fans here that are true believers.

Please come back frequently and ignore the "n00bs" commentary...

KCJ
:arrow:

thanks for the welcome and the tip! I'm happy to be here.

[StcChief]

I think we can all agree this would be good deal... at the right price Picks/players/cash.

[triple]

no higher than a second. remember he almost slid to the bottom of the first round.

[triple]

Quinn is a dick, though. I don't think Herm would like his personality.

wtf do you know about him?

[Nightfyre]

no higher than a second. remember he almost slid to the bottom of the first round.

The browns have to want to unload him anyway, I figure. They have to pay him out the ass to be a backup.

[Red Brooklyn]

How about Colt Brennon? Is there any chance of trading for that guy?

Even better! I love Brennon. I was actually hoping the Chiefs would pick him up in the draft... love to see this guy in red and gold... but how do we make it happen?

[TEX]

I'm for anything that expedites life after Croyle...

[Nightfyre]

I'm for anything that expedites life after Croyle...

And this!

[ChiefGator]

A second and a fourth. No more. We can then get an MLB/DE in the first round and pluck up a RG in the third. I'd be a happy camper.

Yeah, I could handle that.

[OnTheWarpath15]

We can't give up a 1st for a dud taken in the bottom of round 1 who is unproven.

I'm all for it if its a 2nd rounder

Not picking on you, Hoov, because I've seen this posted a lot - now's as good a time as any to address it.

Why is Brady Quinn considered a "dud"?


Because he's playing behind a guy who just threw for almost 3,800 yards and 29 TD's?

Because he wasn't drafted until the 22nd pick of the first round?

Go back and look at that draft, and tell me who needed to take Quinn after Miami pass on him. (foolishly, I might add)

He fell because Miami made a colossal mistake, and the next 12 teams in line had their QBOTF in place, or was contractually tied to one, like the 49ers were.

Babb makes an excellent point:

If you're going to gamble on a young quarterback...

Wouldn't you rather have one with some experience? Unlike a draft pick, Quinn is NFL ready. The problem for the second-year passer is that he's buried under Anderson, and that's unlikely to change. Instead of hoping one of the drafted quarterbacks works out, and waiting at least a year for him to adjust to NFL speed and the Chiefs playbook, Quinn would offer immediate experience and, by many accounts, the leadership the Chiefs need. It's possible Quinn wouldn't be as talented as one of next year's top quarterbacks, but it's also possible a top draft pick wouldn't work out. That would be a devastating setback that some teams (San Francisco, Detroit, Houston) have experienced to horrendous results. If you trade next year's first-round pick to the Browns, a deal they would take in a second, you're acquiring the quarterback you already wanted but with two years' experience. You won't get that in the draft.

[Hammock Parties]

wtf do you know about him?

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/02/brady_quinn_part_of_rowdy_grou.html

That's about the only thing I could find but he's done all kinds of dick things since he was drafted. He's a macho punk hothead. He's not the kind of guy you want as the face of your franchise.

And he wears tights at training camp.

[the Talking Can]

Welcome, Brooklyn. This is a cool site for Chiefs fans but it is littered with many sophomoric and irresponsible posters who levy personal attacks and pollute the atmosphere against dissent. Try to hang in the pocket and avoid the blitz. There are also some really good guys and knowledgable Chiefs fans here that are true believers.

Please come back frequently and ignore the "n00bs" commentary...

KCJ
:arrow:

just so you know, mr.brooklyn, this poster has physically threatened many on this board...he has lost his mind and left on many occasions and returned only to attack people again...

he is very unstable, so tread lightly...as long as you think like he thinks, he will be nice to you...but if at any point you have differing opinions he will attack your "manhood" and threaten you...this is documented in our archives, anyone can read for themselves..

this has gone on for years....just thought you should know...we have all lived through it, you will too some day...

welcome to the planet..but be careful of fast friends...

[OnTheWarpath15]

I love the fact that the Star's blog allows Babb to flex his editorial muscle. Great stuff!

Quinn is a dick, though. I don't think Herm would like his personality.

Herm won't be around long enough for it to be an issue, hopefully.

[rtuimauga]

Even better! I love Brennon. I was actually hoping the Chiefs would pick him up in the draft... love to see this guy in red and gold... but how do we make it happen?

I would rather have him over Brady "Queen" and we may be able to pick him up for less!

Looks sharp here:
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d809b832b

[Molitoth]

I just don't want to give up that much for a "maybe".

GIVING UP? What if we use that #1 pick on a QB that is worse then Quinn....

At least Quinn has some experience and is ready to plug in.

Are draft picks no longer "maybe's"?

[OnTheWarpath15]

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/02/brady_quinn_part_of_rowdy_grou.html

That's about the only thing I could find but he's done all kinds of dick things since he was drafted. He's a macho punk hothead. He's not the kind of guy you want as the face of your franchise.

And he wears tights at training camp.

I guess we can't draft Rey Maualuga, then. The wears a thong at practice.

[RealSNR]

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/02/brady_quinn_part_of_rowdy_grou.html

That's about the only thing I could find but he's done all kinds of dick things since he was drafted. He's a macho punk hothead. He's not the kind of guy you want as the face of your franchise.

And he wears tights at training camp.Macho? You mean he's an ATHLETE?

This isn't high school for crying out loud.

[KCJohnny]

just so you know, mr.brooklyn, this poster has physically threatened many on this board...he has lost his mind and left on many occasions and returned only to attack people again...

he is very unstable, so tread lightly...as long as you think like he thinks, he will be nice to you...but if at any point you have differing opinions he will attack your "manhood" and threaten you...this is documented in our archives, anyone can read for themselves..

this has gone on for years....just thought you should know...we have all lived through it, you will too some day...

welcome to the planet..but be careful of fast friends...

Talking Can is case in point.
I have never threatened anyone. I have challenged blow hard internet cowboys to meet me in person. If that is a threat, I am guilty as charged.

95% of the posters here will confirm that I am the biggest Chiefs Planet advocate of football discussion. Just do a survey of "Talking Can's" posts and his pattern of posting will speak for itself.

[RealSNR]

just so you know, mr.brooklyn, this poster has physically threatened many on this board...he has lost his mind and left on many occasions and returned only to attack people again...

he is very unstable, so tread lightly...as long as you think like he thinks, he will be nice to you...but if at any point you have differing opinions he will attack your "manhood" and threaten you...this is documented in our archives, anyone can read for themselves..

this has gone on for years....just thought you should know...we have all lived through it, you will too some day...

welcome to the planet..but be careful of fast friends...Well said.

Oh, and Mr. Brooklyn, just so you know everybody on this forum wants you dead. Some may act nicely, but they're just trying to lure you into a false sense of security. In reality, the only person you can trust is me.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Talking Can is case in point.
I have never threatened anyone. I have challenged blow hard internet cowboys to meet me in person. If that is a threat, I am guilty as charged.

95% of the posters here will confirm that I am the biggest Chiefs Planet advocate of football discussion. Just do a survey of "Talking Can's" posts and his pattern of posting will speak for itself.

John,

Do us a favor and take the hijack somewhere else.

We WERE having a football discussion here until you felt the need to pimp yourself out to the new guy - and bash the rest of the board in the process.

Thank you.

[KCJohnny]

John,

Do us a favor and take the hijack somewhere else.

We WERE having a football discussion here until you felt the need to pimp yourself out to the new guy - and bash the rest of the board in the process.

Thank you.

Really? How many "n00bs" has this board run off?

I was/am talking football. I will be happy to comply with your request when you have the integrity to aim the same message at "Talking Can".

[RealSNR]

I would rather have him over Brady "Queen" and we may be able to pick him up for less!

Looks sharp here:
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d809b832bSo they draft Brennan in the 6th round and he starts to look good? Do you think they'll be willing to give up just anything for the guy now?

It'd cost us a lot more than a 6th at this point, and that's what I call getting caught with your pants down. Pass on a guy in the draft and try to trade for him the next season at a much higher price. Bad idea.

[PhillyChiefFan]

Hello, all. I'm new to the board. From KC now living in NYC. This is my first post, and I wanted to chime in and say... Yes, yes, yes. How can we make this happen? I'm all for it.

Welcome to the planet Red.

I would love this, when we had one pick to go in the 07 draft I was drooling, until Cleveland announced the trade then I knew he was gone.

[Hammock Parties]

Macho? You mean he's an ATHLETE?

This isn't high school for crying out loud.

No, I mean he's a meathead. Trent Green wasn't a meathead.

You expect some players to be meatheads. It's their lot in life. Not the face of your franchise.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Really? How many "n00bs" has this board run off?

I was/am talking football. I will be happy to comply with your request when you have the integrity to aim the same message at "Talking Can".

Uh, no, you weren't.

Welcome, Brooklyn. This is a cool site for Chiefs fans but it is littered with many sophomoric and irresponsible posters who levy personal attacks and pollute the atmosphere against dissent. Try to hang in the pocket and avoid the blitz. There are also some really good guys and knowledgable Chiefs fans here that are true believers.

Please come back frequently and ignore the "n00bs" commentary...

KCJ


That had NOTHING to do with the topic at hand. You just felt the need to start a pissing match - then have the audacity to question MY integrity for not calling out TTC, when YOU were the one who decided to jump on your high horse, attempt to claim your superiority, and bash the rest of the board in the process.

TTC didn't do anything wrong, other than make an attempt to give another side of a story that shouldn't have come up TO BEGIN WITH.

You could have sent him all the attention whore, National Enquirer gossip you wanted in a PM and allowed the rest of us to actually TALK about a FOOTBALL TOPIC.

[Brock]

Pass on a guy in the draft and try to trade for him the next season at a much higher price. Bad idea.

That's pretty much all there is to say about that.

[OnTheWarpath15]

So they draft Brennan in the 6th round and he starts to look good? Do you think they'll be willing to give up just anything for the guy now?

It'd cost us a lot more than a 6th at this point, and that's what I call getting caught with your pants down. Pass on a guy in the draft and try to trade for him the next season at a much higher price. Bad idea.

Even worse idea when the player in question looked good against other team's 3rd and 4th stringers...

[Chiefnj2]

No, I mean he's a meathead. Trent Green wasn't a meathead.

You expect some players to be meatheads. It's their lot in life. Not the face of your franchise.

Big Ben is a meathead and things are working out fairly well in Pitt.

[KCJohnny]

TTC didn't do anything wrong, other than make an attempt to give another side of a story that shouldn't have come up TO BEGIN WITH.



OK, Bud! Its game on! You chose this, not me! :D

[OnTheWarpath15]

Welcome to the planet Red.

I would love this, when we had one pick to go in the 07 draft I was drooling, until Cleveland announced the trade then I knew he was gone.

Which is exactly why Cleveland jumped ahead of us, and at a high price.

Like I pointed out earlier, there wasn't another team behind Miami that needed a QB until KC. Cleveland played the situation perfectly.

[Molitoth]

This thread started well....

[kregger]

If we can only dupe Cleveland into a 2nd round round pick and Herm and Curl and Carl......never going to happen.

[KCJohnny]

This thread started well....

Happy?

[the Talking Can]

at this point, i'm open to anything at the qb position....though quinn has always looked an icy hot stuntaz to me...i'd probably rather draft one next year...

[PhillyChiefFan]

Not picking on you, Hoov, because I've seen this posted a lot - now's as good a time as any to address it.

Why is Brady Quinn considered a "dud"?


Because he's playing behind a guy who just threw for almost 3,800 yards and 29 TD's?

Because he wasn't drafted until the 22nd pick of the first round?

Go back and look at that draft, and tell me who needed to take Quinn after Miami pass on him. (foolishly, I might add)

He fell because Miami made a colossal mistake, and the next 12 teams in line had their QBOTF in place, or was contractually tied to one, like the 49ers were.

Babb makes an excellent point:

True, look at what happened to Cam after this bomb. I was shocked when they took Ginn over Quinn.

Reminded me of when Ditka traded all of his draft picks for Ricky Williams and more the following year...though that was slllighhtly worse.

[Nightfyre]

So, slightly off-topic: Who's the best QB coach in the league for developing young guys? Because this would seem to be another critical piece. You want your guy to be reading defenses and making good decisions by the end of the first year, I figure. Who do you hire to get that out of your young QB?

[OnTheWarpath15]

OK, Bud! Its game on! You chose this, not me! :D

Yep.

It was my decision for you to come into a solid football thread and ruin it by climbing on your high horse, unprovoked, crying about personal attacks, while attacking the rest of the board at the same time.

Brilliant.

[The Franchise]

I'd trade for Quinn but I'd make it a conditional 2nd. If Quinn throws for more than 3000 yards and 24 TDs....then it moves up to a 1st.


I love the people who want Colt Brennan because he tore it up in the preseason. Really? That means that we already have that guy in Ingle Martin and Brodie Croyle.

[Red Brooklyn]

So they draft Brennan in the 6th round and he starts to look good? Do you think they'll be willing to give up just anything for the guy now?

It'd cost us a lot more than a 6th at this point, and that's what I call getting caught with your pants down. Pass on a guy in the draft and try to trade for him the next season at a much higher price. Bad idea.

I agree. Never should have passed on him. But, just hypothetically, what would you be willing to give up for Brennan? Assume you want the Chiefs to pick him up... what's a "fair" or "good" price to pay in your opinion?

[Mr. Plow]

True, look at what happened to Cam after this bomb. I was shocked when they took Ginn over Quinn.

Reminded me of when Ditka traded all of his draft picks for Ricky Williams and more the following year...though that was slllighhtly worse.

What team gave up their pick so they could draft RW? I can't remember.

[RustShack]

What team gave up their pick so they could draft RW? I can't remember.

Saints

[OnTheWarpath15]

I'd trade for Quinn but I'd make it a conditional 2nd. If Quinn throws for more than 3000 yards and 24 TDs....then it moves up to a 1st.


I love the people who want Colt Brennan because he tore it up in the preseason. Really? That means that we already have that guy in Ingle Martin and Brodie Croyle.

Good post.

I don't think they're going to take a second round pick, personally.

They used the 22nd pick in the draft PLUS their 2008 1st round pick.

I think the best we could hope for would be Quinn and a swap of firsts.

Which is why this will never happen.

[Red Brooklyn]

I'd trade for Quinn but I'd make it a conditional 2nd. If Quinn throws for more than 3000 yards and 24 TDs....then it moves up to a 1st.


I love the people who want Colt Brennan because he tore it up in the preseason. Really? That means that we already have that guy in Ingle Martin and Brodie Croyle.

Good call on the conditional pick. And I liked Brennan whe he was in college. I just think he has a spark, and a lot of potential. I didn't get to see him pre-season. I don't know. Could he really be worse than what we've got right now?

[OnTheWarpath15]

I agree. Never should have passed on him. But, just hypothetically, what would you be willing to give up for Brennan? Assume you want the Chiefs to pick him up... what's a "fair" or "good" price to pay in your opinion?

Nothing.

If they had ANY interest in him at all, they had 5 1/2 rounds to take him, and didn't.

[KCJohnny]

Yep.

It was my decision for you to come into a solid football thread and ruin it by climbing on your high horse, unprovoked, crying about personal attacks, while attacking the rest of the board at the same time.

Brilliant.

My friend,
You are in serious denial about the actual atmospherics on Chiefs Planet. But don't let me disturb your bliss. I was trying to insulate a new poster against this very type of character assassination. I was trying to encourage a new member. I was attempting to keep a new displaced Chiefs fan in the fold. But posters like you who alienate new members go right ahead and sit in your little cliques. But count on me and other die hard Chiefs fans to look out for other displaced Chiefs fans.

I have been a Chiefs fan since 1971 and lived just 2 years in Kansas. I was thrilled to attend a real live Chiefs game in 2006. You have no idea who you are talking to or what it means to Brooklyn to have welcoming Chiefs fans here.

My love for the Chiefs and real Chiefs fans is beyond reproach. You will do well to consider the total population of Chiefs fans and the embarrassing record of this website in both maintaining order and welcoming displaced Chiefs fans.

My heart is open to all true believers.

[OnTheWarpath15]

My friend,
You are in serious denial about the actual atmospherics on Chiefs Planet. But don't let me disturb your bliss. I was trying to insulate a new poster against this very type of character assassination. I was trying to encourage a new member. I was attempting to keep a new displaced Chiefs fan in the fold. But posters like you who alienate new members go right ahead and sit in your little cliques. But count on me and other die hard Chiefs fans to look out for other displaced Chiefs fans.

I have been a Chiefs fan since 1971 and lived just 2 years in Kansas. I was thrilled to attend a real live Chiefs game in 2006. You have no idea who you are talking to or what it means to Brooklyn to have welcoming Chiefs fans here.

My love for the Chiefs and real Chiefs fans is beyond reproach. You will do well to consider the total population of Chiefs fans and the embarrassing record of this website in both maintaining order and welcoming displaced Chiefs fans.

My heart is open to all true believers.

Character assassination?

ROFL

You did that on your own this minute you posted in this thread.

NO ONE, and I'll repeat - NO ONE had said BOO to the new guy.

Quit acting like he was dog-piled as soon as he walked through the door.

And please, give ONE example where I've alienated, or chastised a new member. Go back and look at my posts. I've never given a stitch of neg rep, to a n00b, or anyone else for that matter.

The only person on this thread making personal attacks is you.

Don't bother responding, I'm done. I've wasted enough time on your antics.

[DeezNutz]

Good post.

I don't think they're going to take a second round pick, personally.

They used the 22nd pick in the draft PLUS their 2008 1st round pick.

I think the best we could hope for would be Quinn and a swap of firsts.

Which is why this will never happen.

Since this possible trade will be happening after the season, perhaps KC could land him by swapping firsts plus giving up a 2nd.

Clev. gets a top 10, perhaps top 5, pick plus something VERY high in round 2. We still get to pick up a first-round talent. Win-win.

[rtuimauga]

I agree. Never should have passed on him. But, just hypothetically, what would you be willing to give up for Brennan? Assume you want the Chiefs to pick him up... what's a "fair" or "good" price to pay in your opinion?

A 4th or 5th?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Since this possible trade will be happening after the season, perhaps KC could land him by swapping firsts plus giving up a 2nd.

Clev. gets a top 10, perhaps top 5, pick plus something VERY high in round 2. We still get to pick up a first-round talent. Win-win.

Possible.

Honestly, I'm thinking our picks may not be that far apart.

I think Cleveland is a 8-8 team this year at best.

[Mr. Plow]

Saints


Oops. I said that wrong. I knew the Saints gave up all their picks - I actually meant which team did the Saints give their picks to be able to draft RW?

[DeezNutz]

Possible.

Honestly, I'm thinking our picks may not be that far apart.

I think Cleveland is a 8-8 team this year at best.

Now that will muck up the whole process. We need Clev. to be around the 20 slot, at least, which would make our, what #3/#4?, look really attractive, especially when paired with a high second.

[The Franchise]

Good post.

I don't think they're going to take a second round pick, personally.

They used the 22nd pick in the draft PLUS their 2008 1st round pick.

I think the best we could hope for would be Quinn and a swap of firsts.

Which is why this will never happen.

I wonder if there are any players on our team that they'd be interested in. Don't they need CB help? Send them a 2nd round pick and Patrick Surtain.

[The Franchise]

Possible.

Honestly, I'm thinking our picks may not be that far apart.

I think Cleveland is a 8-8 team this year at best.

How about a swap of 1st round picks and our 3rd rounder.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Oops. I said that wrong. I knew the Saints gave up all their picks - I actually meant which team did the Saints give their picks to be able to draft RW?

Redskins.

[DeezNutz]

I don't see how anyone thinks this deal could get done with a second, even a conditional one. A possible franchise QB? You've gotts to be kidding. We're talking about the golden goose.

Wasn't Brees traded? He wasn't a FA, right? What was the return here? Remember that injury was a concern, so this would be a low estimate.

[Sure-Oz]

Lets hope Anderson tears it up again like last yea so Quinn is expendable...i know we were going to draft him before Cleveland traded up to get him...i would def. trade a high 2nd and whatever else is needed lower. or make it conditional No way i'd trade the high 1st for him, maybe a lower 1st, but we wont have that

[OnTheWarpath15]

I wonder if there are any players on our team that they'd be interested in. Don't they need CB help? Send them a 2nd round pick and Patrick Surtain.

If it happened, I think there would have to be a player/picks combination involved.

I'm trying not to overvalue him, but Kolby Smith would be a nice addition for them behind that OL.

Lewis is constantly hurt, he's old, and Jason Wright is their only other decent option.

[DeezNutz]

How about a swap of 1st round picks and our 3rd rounder.

?

Ok, Mr. One-Upper.

This deal ain't gettin done on the cheap, unless Clev. is dumb as ****.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Lets hope Anderson tears it up again like last year so Quinn is expendable...

That's the key to the whole thing.

[DeezNutz]

I don't see how anyone thinks this deal could get done with a second, even a conditional one. A possible franchise QB? You've gotts to be kidding. We're talking about the golden goose.

Wasn't Brees traded? He wasn't a FA, right? What was the return here? Remember that injury was a concern, so this would be a low estimate.

Nope. FA. Sorry. I was wrong.

[OnTheWarpath15]

For comparison's sake:

Matt Schaub was traded for a swap of 1st round picks, and TWO 2nd round picks, one in 2007, one in 2008.

The swap of 1st's was only 2 spots. (8th to 10th)

Schuab was a late 3rd round pick.

[Red Brooklyn]

If it happened, I think there would have to be a player/picks combination involved.

I'm trying not to overvalue him, but Kolby Smith would be a nice addition for them behind that OL.

Lewis is constantly hurt, he's old, and Jason Wright is their only other decent option.

now that is interesting...

[Brock]

The bidding for Quinn will be heavy in the coming offseason, assuming Anderson isn't a fluke. It isn't going to be cheap, not by a long shot.

[DeezNutz]

For comparison's sake:

Matt Schaub was traded for a swap of 1st round picks, and TWO 2nd round picks, one in 2007, one in 2008.

The swap of 1st's was only 2 spots. (8th to 10th)

Schuab was a late 3rd round pick.

Yikes. There's the basement price.

I'm sure Carl will be able to convince Clev. to go with only a second, though. ROFL

We're the same franchise that trades draft picks for coaches. ****ing coaches. My guess is that we'd end up trading Bowe, Dorsey, plus our first rounders for the next three years.

[DeezNutz]

Too bad we didn't move up a spot a year ago. But of course WHO could have possibly guessed, and a far-fetched guess it would have been, that Croyle would get injured again. And again. And again. And again. And again...

[OnTheWarpath15]

The bidding for Quinn will be heavy in the coming offseason, assuming Anderson isn't a fluke. It isn't going to be cheap, not by a long shot.

Yep.

List of teams that MAY be interested?

Kansas City
San Francisco
Tennessee (depending on VY, of course)
Chicago
Minnesota

Any others?

[Micjones]

The Chiefs' answer at quarterback?

Brodie Croyle's injury casts doubt on his viability as the Chiefs' starting quarterback and whether the 25-year-old can withstand the weekly beatings he'll take as a team's regular passer.

Herm Edwards won't say the Chiefs are beginning to have doubts that Croyle is their quarterback of the future, but his third injury in seven starts came this past Sunday. It's a good bet they've begun thinking of their options if Croyle has trouble healing from his separated right shoulder or is injured again this season.

Just for kicks, here's one option that will never happen but would be interesting. The Chiefs could trade next year's second- or even first-round draft pick for Brady Quinn, the Cleveland Browns backup who's likely to remain the backup for a long time after starter Derek Anderson signed a $24 million contract this summer.

This is only speculation. There are no sources or facts that suggest this could happen. The Chiefs aren't ready to give up on Croyle. The front office isn't the type to pull the trigger on an impulsive deal, and that's a smart strategy most times.

Here's why this would be a time to break from that philosophy:

Why wait to draft a first-round QB? If Croyle is out for an extended period or if he does not return to top form or if he just isn't the quarterback the Chiefs hope he is, it's a good bet they'll be looking for a quarterback in next year's draft. Some of next year's top options, as of now, are juniors Matt Stafford of Georgia and Tim Tebow of Florida. While those are elite quarterbacks, both would be a gamble, like many young quarterbacks, and likely would burn what likely will be the Chiefs' top-five pick. If you're going to gamble on a young quarterback...

Wouldn't you rather have one with some experience? Unlike a draft pick, Quinn is NFL ready. The problem for the second-year passer is that he's buried under Anderson, and that's unlikely to change. Instead of hoping one of the drafted quarterbacks works out, and waiting at least a year for him to adjust to NFL speed and the Chiefs playbook, Quinn would offer immediate experience and, by many accounts, the leadership the Chiefs need. It's possible Quinn wouldn't be as talented as one of next year's top quarterbacks, but it's also possible a top draft pick wouldn't work out. That would be a devastating setback that some teams (San Francisco, Detroit, Houston) have experienced to horrendous results. If you trade next year's first-round pick to the Browns, a deal they would take in a second, you're acquiring the quarterback you already wanted but with two years' experience. You won't get that in the draft.

It might speed the growth process. Not of Quinn but of the other young Chiefs. Kansas City is deep in a rebuilding movement the team hopes will lead it to the playoffs in 2010. If you trade for Quinn, insert him tomorrow in the starting lineup, and he's successful, you expedite that process. A quarterback might not get the Chiefs into the playoffs, but that addition might help Kansas City take advantage of what appears to be a down AFC West and, heck, an entire conference dealing with injuries. If the Chiefs decide the quarterback position needs an upgrade, an experienced starter could help the team win eight or so games ... this year. That could turn into 10 wins in 2009, then maybe 12 wins in 2010. Herm Edwards keeps saying this young team needs to learn how to win. Winning now would be a powerful education for that young bunch.

The Chiefs can afford it -- and more. Kansas City has the most cap room in the NFL this season, but even if they didn't, adding Quinn wouldn't hurt as much as adding a top-five player next year. With salaries continuing to skyrocket, a top-five pick at quarterback in 2009 could cost the Chiefs five times more than Quinn's $7.75 million in guarantees. Remember, Matt Ryan's guaranteed money is $34.75 million, and he was this year's top quarterback. The savings would allow the Chiefs to upgrade another position when they needed it, through the draft or free agency. If drafting a quarterback next year will be the Chiefs' first-round plan, wouldn't a bargain sound nice?

The Browns likely would take the deal. Cleveland sees the 25-year-old Anderson as its quarterback of the future. He was a sixth-round pick who's blossomed into a terrific passer in an offense tailored for him. If they're set at the position, why would they want to pay a backup a base salary of $2 million a year? There are dozens of deals that could be done, using a combination of draft picks and/or current players. But for now, let's keep it simple. Assuming the Chiefs are likely to finish in the bottom fourth of the league again, the Browns might accept Kansas City's second-round pick because it would be near the top of the round. More likely, the Browns would want the Chiefs' first-rounder. Then it comes down to whether quarterback really is the Chiefs' top need next year, and whether they'd be willing to part with that first-round pick.

Kansas City would love it. During a year in which empty seats and television blackouts are possible, the Chiefs are looking for new ways to lure fans to Arrowhead Stadium. No player gets a fan base riled up like a quarterback, particularly a 23-year-old who looks the part and appears to have a bright future ahead. Quinn would fire up Chiefs fans like nothing has in years. A proactive approach takes pressure off Carl Peterson and Edwards, and the front office no longer has to worry about an unfilled stadium.

[The Franchise]

Honestly.....I don't think I would be totally against the Matt Schuab price.

I'd swap 1st round picks and give up a 2009 2nd rounder as well as a 2010 2nd rounder.

That is unless we could throw in any players....Kolby Smith...Patrick Surtain.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Dude.

You're missing a GREAT conversation over here about it:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=191287

:D

[The Franchise]

There's only a thread with 2 pages of posts.......talking about the exact same thing.

[The Franchise]

I'm MIKE JONES!!!!!!

[FringeNC]

I don't think the Browns would trade Quinn straight up for our first.

[DeezNutz]

Yep.

List of teams that MAY be interested?

Kansas City
San Francisco
Tennessee (depending on VY, of course)
Chicago
Minnesota

Any others?

Well, we're going to have the goods to swing the deal if we want. We're the crappiest team on the list.

Given the Schaub deal, it looks like it would take a first and second to swing the deal.

Sounds bad, initially, but if you know you're taking a QB in round 1 anyway, it's really sacrificing only a second. Could be worse. Plus we'd still have lots of cap room.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Well, we're going to have the goods to swing the deal if we want. We're the crappiest team on the list.

Given the Schaub deal, it looks like it would take a first and second to swing the deal.

Sounds bad, initially, but if you know you're taking a QB in round 1 anyway, it's really sacrificing only a second. Could be worse. Plus we'd still have lots of cap room.

That's how I feel about it.

I'd rather give up the pick on a guy that's 2 years ahead of a 2009 draft pick, plus a shit-ton cheaper.

[Micjones]

Blah, blah, repost...

So I didn't see it. Sue me.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Blah, blah, repost...

So I didn't see it. Sue me.

I was being cool about it. Sorry if you misunderstood.

I've actually been WAITING for you to join in over there...

[Red Brooklyn]

Sounds bad, initially, but if you know you're taking a QB in round 1 anyway, it's really sacrificing only a second. Could be worse. Plus we'd still have lots of cap room.

BING!

[Fire Me Boy!]

Blah, blah, repost...

So I didn't look for it. Sue me.

FYP

[Micjones]

I was being cool about it. Sorry if you misunderstood.

I know.
I was just saying...

[BigVE]

You didn't ever TRY! You saw the article and in your haste to try to trump other planeteers you rushed over and did a copy and paste thinking that NOBODY would have already posted/read THIS article yet. Noob. :) ;)

[Red Brooklyn]

That's how I feel about it.

I'd rather give up the pick on a guy that's 2 years ahead of a 2009 draft pick, plus a shit-ton cheaper.

BING, BING!!

[J Diddy]

Well, we're going to have the goods to swing the deal if we want. We're the crappiest team on the list.

Given the Schaub deal, it looks like it would take a first and second to swing the deal.

Sounds bad, initially, but if you know you're taking a QB in round 1 anyway, it's really sacrificing only a second. Could be worse. Plus we'd still have lots of cap room.

yeah but you're giving up what could be an early round draft pick and a 2nd for a late round draft pick with just as much unknowns.

[ChiefsCountry]

Redskins.

And the sad thing is just think how dominate the Redskins could have been if they had hit on those picks ala Cowboys did with the Herschel Walker deal.

[Goapics1]

You didn't ever TRY! You saw the article and in your haste to try to trump other planeteers you rushed over and did a copy and paste thinking that NOBODY would have already posted/read THIS article yet. Noob. :) ;)

ROFL

[Micjones]

FYP

I try my best to have a life free from ChiefsPlanet so you'll have to excuse me if I don't pore over every thread in this forum.

But thanks for the citation officer.
You deserve the Poster Police of the month award.

[ChiefsCountry]

I would trade our first round pick for Quinn if we were plan on taking Matt Stafford with it. Quinn >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stafford.

[DeezNutz]

That's how I feel about it.

I'd rather give up the pick on a guy that's 2 years ahead of a 2009 draft pick, plus a shit-ton cheaper.

All of a sudden the Chiefs get pretty exciting very quickly, especially if we know that Albert is a rock.

Young LT and QB. Whoa momma.

[OnTheWarpath15]

And the sad thing is just think how dominate the Redskins could have been if they had hit on those picks ala Cowboys did with the Herschel Walker deal.

Yep.

That trade was basically Ricky Williams for LaVar Arrington, straight up.

[DeezNutz]

yeah but you're giving up what could be an early round draft pick and a 2nd for a late round draft pick with just as much unknowns.

I don't think the last part of your post is accurate. Teams know FAR more about Quinn than any potential QB that will be drafted. Much, much less risk here.

[Micjones]

You didn't ever TRY! You saw the article and in your haste to try to trump other planeteers you rushed over and did a copy and paste thinking that NOBODY would have already posted/read THIS article yet. Noob. :) ;)

Shaddap.

[BigVE]

I try my best to have a life free from ChiefsPlanet so you'll have to excuse me if I don't pore over every thread in this forum.

But thanks for the citation officer.
You deserve the Poster Police of the month award.


DUDE, you have over 4000 posts! How did you do that if your living a life "free from Chiefsplanet"???? LOL

[DeezNutz]

The bitch is, the Chiefs could (should?) have found a way to draft the kid last year, but one can't have that perspective any more.

Surprise, the organization ****ed up by counting on Croyle. Now we're going to have to pay the bill for this mistake.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I don't think the last part of your post is accurate. Teams know FAR more about Quinn than any potential QB that will be drafted. Much, much less risk here.

Exactly.

People may not like Quinn, and that's fine, but to say he has just as many unknowns as the QB's in the 2009 class is absurd.

[Micjones]

DUDE, you have over 4000 posts! How did you do that if your living a life "free from Chiefsplanet"???? LOL

At any rate...
I don't pore over threads to see who might've posted something previously. It ain't that serious Chief.

But I sincerely apologize for having violated some virtual code that you live by.
Tell you what... Logoff and have an interpersonal relationship with someone.
In a couple weeks this will be a lot less important to you. Promise...

[DeezNutz]

Blah, blah, repost...

So I didn't see it. Sue me.

If you weren't SPEEDING through the first page, you might have seen it. :D

Just a warning this time, grasshopper. I ticket from here on out.

[BigVE]

Just funny, your right. I'm done.

[OnTheWarpath15]

The bitch is, the Chiefs could (should?) have found a way to draft the kid last year, but one can't have that perspective any more.

Surprise, the organization ****ed up by counting on Croyle. Now we're going to have to pay the bill for this mistake.

Can't blame that on Carl, IMO.

Cleveland played it perfectly.

Had Quinn been there, I guarantee we would have taken him.

Had we traded UP to do so? People would have been PISSED.

But that's that it would have taken - everyone knew Cleveland was going to make a move.

[DeezNutz]

Exactly.

People may not like Quinn, and that's fine, but to say he has just as many unknowns as the QB's in the 2009 class is absurd.

Agreed. He might end up sucking. Still a possibility. But if your front office messes up the evaluation of a second-year player with these high of stakes, the consequences have to be even more severe. Lots of heads to roll, not just the GM.

[Chiefnj2]

I like Ted Thompson's approach at QB - try to take one every single draft if possible. Every so often you'll find a diamond in the rough.

[Micjones]

If you weren't SPEEDING through the first page, you might have seen it. :D

Just a warning this time, grasshopper. I ticket from here on out.

I've got plenty of casino cash to buy my way out of it...
:D

[ChiefsCountry]

I really dont see all the bitching about the organization screwing up on Croyle. We have for years been claiming for a quarterback and they took one in the 3rd round that was high risk/high reward. Its not setting this franchise back any, this was the year we were going to find out anyways. The shitty drafts under Vermeil and Gunther are why we are in this position.

[DeezNutz]

Can't blame that on Carl, IMO.

Cleveland played it perfectly.

Had Quinn been there, I guarantee we would have taken him.

Had we traded UP to do so? People would have been PISSED.

But that's that it would have taken - everyone knew Cleveland was going to make a move.

Of course, people would have come unglued. But this is exactly the type of short-sightedness that has hampered this franchise for years.

My grief with Carl was about how he ran his mouth pre-draft about his Quinn love.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Of course, people would have come unglued. But this is exactly the type of short-sightedness that has hampered this franchise for years.

My grief with Carl was about how he ran his mouth pre-draft about his Quinn love.

With you on the bolded line...

[Prometheus]

One word: Tebow

JK

[Hootie]

People are crazy if they think the Browns are in any hurry to get rid of Quinn...he's actually a rather inexpensive backup.

[Prometheus]

No way do I see the Browns cutting a deal for Brady. At least nothing that would be reasonable.

[Micjones]

People are crazy if they think the Browns are in any hurry to get rid of Quinn...he's actually a rather inexpensive backup.

I don't think Cleveland's in a hurry, but I can't see them turning their nose up at a Top 15 #1 next season. Especially when they've already made a big investment in Anderson.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I really dont see all the bitching about the organization screwing up on Croyle. We have for years been claiming for a quarterback and they took one in the 3rd round that was high risk/high reward. Its not setting this franchise back any, this was the year we were going to find out anyways. The shitty drafts under Vermeil and Gunther are why we are in this position.

They want their cake, and want to eat it too...

How many times have we been told by the resident geniuses here that you HAVE to have a 1st round QB - late round guys are like hitting the lottery?

Yet, since 2006, when have we been in the POSITION to draft a QB in the first round?


2006: Had no shot at Cutler or Leinart. Imagine the bitching had we taken Kellen Clemens or Tarvaris Jackson in the 2nd round - or God forbid, reached for them in R1...

2007: We would have had to trade up into the late teens to get Quinn. Everyone in the building knew Cleveland was looking to make a move.

2008: Ryan was gone. No way in hell you reach for Flacco.

[Hootie]

to put this in perspective...

Trent Green - 3 years, 9M
Brady Quinn - 5 years, 9.25M

He's young, has potential, is an excellent handcuff to Anderson in case he flops...and they gave up a shit to draft him.

I'd love to see him in KC, but it isn't going to happen. He wasn't a top 5 pick like Rivers...the Chargers had to do something because they literally were paying out the ass for him as a backup...the Browns don't. The Browns can do the same thing the Packers did with Aaron Rodgers. Quinn is an inexpensive backup who is only going to benefit from learning and not playing...unless he's a little bitch about it, which I could definitely see happening.

[Rausch]

Remind me how someone can be the answer when they haven't done squat.

[Micjones]

No way do I see the Browns cutting a deal for Brady. At least nothing that would be reasonable.

Really?

You don't think having two #1's would be tempting?
Especially when that team is still working its way up the AFC ladder?
Ours will definitely be higher than theirs. It's probably going to be a Top 10 pick.

[Micjones]

to put this in perspective...

Trent Green - 3 years, 9M
Brady Quinn - 5 years, 9.25M

Green isn't likely to play out that contract.
And I'm guessing it's probably backloaded.

[Frankie]

One word: Tebow

JK

One word: NO!

[Prometheus]

Really?

You don't think having two #1's would be tempting?
Especially when that team is still working its way up the AFC ladder?
Ours will definitely be higher than theirs. It's probably going to be a Top 10 pick.

I understand your point. But I think they like Brady.

[Micjones]

One word: NO!

That's three words.
:D

[Micjones]

I understand your point. But I think they like Brady.

Would you give them a #1 and a player?

[Hootie]

Green isn't likely to play out that contract.
And I'm guessing it's probably backloaded.

???

Uhm, no.

3/10/2008: Signed a three-year, $8.9 million contract. The deal included a $2.1 million signing bonus. 2008: $1 million (+ $900,000 reporting bonus), 2009: $2 million, 2010: $2.9 million, 2011: Free Agent

And fine, Pennington signed a 2 year, $8M deal...

Backup QB's make a TON of money...most of them make $2-4M a year...

Quinn at 5 years $9.25M is a bargain...people think Quinn and immediately think about Philip Rivers and the situation San Diego was in when they let go of Brees...

Rivers was making #4 money, Quinn is making late 1st round money...

The Browns would be absolutely foolish to take anything less than a high 1st round pick for Quinn...he stock hasn't dropped a bit since he was drafted and the Browns gave up a shit ton to get him.

If the Chiefs want Quinn, they have to give up their #1, at least...it might even take a #1 and #3...the Browns have ALL of the leverage...they can keep Quinn as a low price/high potential backup for as long as they want.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Green isn't likely to play out that contract.
And I'm guessing it's probably backloaded.

Yep.

And Green's not getting a $7M signing bonus and $10M in incentives to earn over the last two years of his deal, either.

[ChiefGator]

People may not like Quinn, and that's fine, but to say he has just as many unknowns as the QB's in the 2009 class is absurd.

The dude has three completions in the NFL and has played in one game. 3 completions on 5 attempts in a game that they were winning in already.

He has just as many unknowns as the QB's in the 2009 class.

Quinn could be the next Akili Smith for all we know.

And I hate Notre Dame anyway.

[OnTheWarpath15]

The dude has three completions in the NFL and has played in one game. 3 completions on 5 attempts in a game that they were winning in already.

He has just as many unknowns as the QB's in the 2009 class.

Quinn could be the next Akili Smith for all we know.

And I hate Notre Dame anyway.

You didn't need to tell us, your post made it perfectly clear.

[Redrum_69]

TRADE LJ FOR BRADY QUINN!

[Micjones]

???

Uhm, no.

3/10/2008: Signed a three-year, $8.9 million contract. The deal included a $2.1 million signing bonus. 2008: $1 million (+ $900,000 reporting bonus), 2009: $2 million, 2010: $2.9 million, 2011: Free Agent

So it is backloaded.
:D

And fine, Pennington signed a 2 year, $8M deal...

Pennington is the starter in Miami.
:shrug:

[Chiefnj2]

???

Quinn at 5 years $9.25M is a bargain...people think Quinn and immediately think about Philip Rivers and the situation San Diego was in when they let go of Brees...

Rivers was making #4 money, Quinn is making late 1st round money...

The Browns would be absolutely foolish to take anything less than a high 1st round pick for Quinn...he stock hasn't dropped a bit since he was drafted and the Browns gave up a shit ton to get him.

If the Chiefs want Quinn, they have to give up their #1, at least...it might even take a #1 and #3...the Browns have ALL of the leverage...they can keep Quinn as a low price/high potential backup for as long as they want.

I agree with everything you said above.

[triple]

this is retarted.

HE'S THROWN 8 PASSES IN THE NFL! they are not going to get a higher pick for him than they drafted him with in the first place. They are not going to get the #5 overall or whatever. They are not going to get some herschel walker package of picks and players. That is the dumbest thing I have ever read.

for the love of pete, are people really this dopey?

they could probably get a second for him. any more than that is silly. there's a reason why he slid to the bottom of the first round anyway. there are always plenty of QB poor teams in the NFL, usually the bad teams, and those teams didn't like him.

[ChiefGator]

You didn't need to tell us, your post made it perfectly clear.

Yeah, I thought that might have devalued the previous remarks a bit . . . ::chuckle::

True though. Even though they were god awful last year I got to watch them on my TV this weekend as one of the few games on.

[Frosty]

So it is backloaded.
:D

Quinn's cap number this year is $2 million. BFD. I imagine that Huard's is at least as high.

[Deberg_1990]

They want their cake, and want to eat it too...

How many times have we been told by the resident geniuses here that you HAVE to have a 1st round QB - late round guys are like hitting the lottery?

Yet, since 2006, when have we been in the POSITION to draft a QB in the first round?


2006: Had no shot at Cutler or Leinart. Imagine the bitching had we taken Kellen Clemens or Tarvaris Jackson in the 2nd round - or God forbid, reached for them in R1...

2007: We would have had to trade up into the late teens to get Quinn. Everyone in the building knew Cleveland was looking to make a move.

2008: Ryan was gone. No way in hell you reach for Flacco.

Thats why i feel that 2005 was a HUGE mistake by Carl when he bypassed Rodgers.

No, DJ isnt a bust, but hes not enough of an IMPACT player that you pick a guy like that over a potential franchise QB.

[Hootie]

So it is backloaded.
:D



Pennington is the starter in Miami.
:shrug:

how is it backloaded...he got his $2.1M signing bonus + $1M this year...

Our own Damon Huard signed a 3 year $7.5M deal and everyone said he was taking a hometown discount.

Quinn is a bargain for the Browns...as long as Anderson is on the team, he'll never make those incentives.

We have a better shot of Anderson somewhat flopping and landing him for a 2nd round pick than we do with Quinn.

[philfree]

I'd hate to give up a 1st but that doesn't mean I wouldn't do it. Two 2nd round picks maybe. If Anderson makes it throught the year healthy then we could trade our 2010 1st for Quinn after the 2009 draft is over and have him in from the mini camps on. To me in 2009 we need to take the best player with our 1st pick. Right now I hope it's a stud pass rushing DE to complete what's looking to be a really good D line.

PhilFree:arrow:

[Hootie]

Thats why i feel that 2005 was a HUGE mistake by Carl when he bypassed Rodgers.

No, DJ isnt a bust, but hes not enough of an IMPACT player that you pick a guy like that over a potential franchise QB.

Was Rodgers even on our board? DJ was the no brainer...when DJ fell that far, everyone in the world knew we were going to take DJ...

Hindsight is 20/20...but seriously...did you really want Aaron Rodgers back then? Everyone would have flipped.

It's easy to look back and say we should have done this and we should have done that, but if we took Rodgers and threw him into the mix right away...who's to say he wouldn't have been a huge bust?

He's benefiting now from a few things: Learning behind Favre for 3 years, inheriting a 13-3 team, and being in a QB friendly offense.

Our Derrick Johnson pick was the right pick.

[Hootie]

I'd hate to give up a 1st but that doesn't mean I wouldn't do it. Two 2nd round picks maybe. If Anderson makes it throught the year healthy then we could trade our 2010 1st for Quinn after the 2009 draft is over and have him in from the mini camps on. To me in 2009 we need to take the best player with our 1st pick. Right now I hope it's a stud pass rushing DE to complete what's looking to be a really good D line.

PhilFree:arrow:

the only way we get Quinn is if Anderson has a year at least comparable to last season...

Right now the Browns cannot be sold on him yet. Quinn is a low priced, how potential security blanket.

[CupidStunt]

Matt Stafford absolutely blows Quinn away in terms of talent and potential. I couldn't give a shit about one year of sitting on a bench. Stafford could do that here.

[Mr. Laz]

i've already said it ....

jamal lewis is having hammy problems ...... Anderson is their guy ... we have RB depth


LJ for Quinn

[Hootie]

Matt Stafford absolutely blows Quinn away in terms of talent and potential. I couldn't give a shit about one year of sitting on a bench. Stafford could do that here.

If we do land the #1 pick, and take Stafford...if he SNIFFS the field in 2009 I will not be happy.

[OnTheWarpath15]

this is retarted.

HE'S THROWN 8 PASSES IN THE NFL! they are not going to get a higher pick for him than they drafted him with in the first place. They are not going to get the #5 overall or whatever. They are not going to get some herschel walker package of picks and players. That is the dumbest thing I have ever read.

for the love of pete, are people really this dopey?

they could probably get a second for him. any more than that is silly. there's a reason why he slid to the bottom of the first round anyway. there are always plenty of QB poor teams in the NFL, usually the bad teams, and those teams didn't like him.

Name one team after Miami passed on him that needed a 1st round QB.

[Hootie]

i've already said it ....

jamal lewis is having hammy problems ...... Anderson is their guy ... we have RB depth


LJ for Quinn

if the Browns took LJ for Quinn...I think they'd officially be the dumbest franchise of all time.

I'd trade LJ and a 2nd for Quinn and never blink twice...and I'm a huge LJ fan.

[Deberg_1990]

..did you really want Aaron Rodgers back then? Everyone would have flipped.



Yes, actually i did. I had at least thought about the possibilty Green wasnt going to be around forever.

[FAX]

i've already said it ....

jamal lewis is having hammy problems ...... Anderson is their guy ... we have RB depth


LJ for Quinn

I would do this.

FAX THE HAPPY MAN

[CupidStunt]

Thats why i feel that 2005 was a HUGE mistake by Carl when he bypassed Rodgers.

No, DJ isnt a bust, but hes not enough of an IMPACT player that you pick a guy like that over a potential franchise QB.

Are you f**king high?

Do you have a link to the post you made begging Carl to take the mediocre Tedford product who got passed over by every team over maybe the best defensive prospect in the draft?

If not, your hindsight bullshit is embarrassing. The funniest thing is, Aaron Rodgers still hasn't done F**K ALL as a pro QB. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. And Derrick Johnson blows him away as a player right now.

[triple]

i've already said it ....

jamal lewis is having hammy problems ...... Anderson is their guy ... we have RB depth


LJ for Quinn

i would do that in 1 second. i mean .1 seconds

[Micjones]

how is it backloaded...he got his $2.1M signing bonus + $1M this year...

More than a third of the deal is due in his final contract year.
The last two years are valued at 5 million.

[Hootie]

Yes, actually i did. I had at least thought about the possibilty Green wasnt going to be around forever.

Well props to you then. Even though I don't think he would have turned out to be that great in KC. He benefited from his circumstance. Flip him and Alex Smith and I think we're calling Aaron Rodgers a bust.

In 2004, we had a disappointing year but our offense was still the best in the league, easily...so we were still in win now mode in 2005 so DJ had to be the pick...we needed to fix that defense. We had a great team in 2005, we just blew it against Dallas. That season is so disappointing to me because Priest was washed up, we wasted 7 games on him when LJ was in absolute beast mode and big Willie got hurt.

On paper, the Chiefs were the best team in the NFL that year. Easily.

[blueballs]

Wonderful
Quinn is to the season
what Favre was to the off season

[Micjones]

Quinn's cap number this year is $2 million. BFD. I imagine that Huard's is at least as high.

I'm not sure why this matters...

Quinn is a #1 draft pick wasting away on the Browns bench.
They could get that #1 back (a higher #1) if they make this trade.
They already have their QBOTF.

[Red Dawg]

I am also in. This is an excellent idea and that's probaly why the Chiefs will not do it. If Croyle comes back and gets hurt again then Herm will have to look else where for a QB. Why not to a young ready to go guy like BQ.

[evolve27]

I'm not sure why this matters...

Quinn is a #1 draft pick wasting away on the Browns bench.
They could get that #1 back (a higher #1) if they make this trade.
They already have their QBOTF.

Are there even talks about this happening, or is all of this wishful thinking?

[Hootie]

I'm sorry guys...a lot of young QB's, especially top picks, have all of the ability in the world. They bust because they lose confidence in themselves...

One of the biggest qualities a QB can have is confidence and swagger...Tom Brady walks around like he has a 10" cock. Put Aaron Rodgers on the Chiefs, and maybe he turns out to be great like he's going to be in Green Bay because he had 3 years to learn and inherited a 13-3 team...maybe since he would've had two years behind Green...or 1 because Green got hurt...but I don't know.

Anyone who thinks we should have taken Rodgers over DJ in 2005 is either looking in hindsight, or was smoking crack on draft day 2005.

[Frosty]

I think that if Quinn had shown anything last year that showed he was ready to take over the reigns, the Browns wouldn't have resigned DA. DA had a great year but the Browns fans are really clamoring for BQ. They are, for the most part, really pissed about DA being resigned.

[Hootie]

the Browns would be insane to take anything less than our #1 for Quinn.

[Mr. Laz]

I don't think the Browns would trade Quinn straight up for our first.
that's just completely and utterly stupid


Trade Brady Quinn for a 1st round pick that is prolly gonna be in the top 5.


they would do it in a heartbeat

[OnTheWarpath15]

Are there even talks about this happening, or is all of this wishful thinking?

From the blog itself:

This is only speculation. There are no sources or facts that suggest this could happen. The Chiefs aren't ready to give up on Croyle. The front office isn't the type to pull the trigger on an impulsive deal, and that's a smart strategy most times.

[Chiefnj2]

4 starting QB's went down in week one. Having an excellent backup is invaluable. No way the Browns let Quinn go for less than a first plus additional picks.

[Mr. Laz]

the Browns would be insane to take anything less than our #1 for Quinn.
no WAY we give our #1 pick for Quinn

it's going to be a top 5 pick .... that's just silly

[OnTheWarpath15]

I think that if Quinn had shown anything last year that showed he was ready to take over the reigns, the Browns wouldn't have resigned DA. DA had a great year but the Browns fans are really clamoring for BQ. They are, for the most part, really pissed about DA being resigned.

HUH?

Anderson threw for almost 3,800 yards and 29 TD's.

Why would the Browns NOT lock up DA?

[suds79]

I definitely like the idea of looking to trade for Quinn.

# 1 on my wishlist for the Chiefs is to find a young franchise QB. Until that happens, I don't care what else we're doing with the youth movement. It won't matter much.

So we could draft a QB this next year (which would be okay with me) but then have to wait about 3 years before we can expect something. That's a long time to wait.

I would hope that the Chiefs have or would at least inquire to Quinn's availability.

Sometimes you have to think outside the box. There's been a lot of good starting QBs who had their start with another team.

Favre, Hasselbeck, etc (I'm sure there's more I can't think of). You have to be willing to go get those guys.

[Micjones]

Are there even talks about this happening, or is all of this wishful thinking?

It's hard to know.
I'm sure Chiefs brass would keep this quiet if they were in talks.

But knowing them... It's probably just wishful thinking on our part.

[Micjones]

no WAY we give our #1 pick for Quinn

it's going to be a top 5 pick .... that's just silly

Sillier than spending that Top 5 pick on a QB, anyway, who will command a contract four times as expensive? And have ZERO NFL experience?

[Brock]

this is retarted.

HE'S THROWN 8 PASSES IN THE NFL! they are not going to get a higher pick for him than they drafted him with in the first place. They are not going to get the #5 overall or whatever. They are not going to get some herschel walker package of picks and players. That is the dumbest thing I have ever read.

for the love of pete, are people really this dopey?

they could probably get a second for him. any more than that is silly. there's a reason why he slid to the bottom of the first round anyway. there are always plenty of QB poor teams in the NFL, usually the bad teams, and those teams didn't like him.

Yes, they will get a higher pick than the one they drafted him with, if they trade him at all. Your thinking is so backward I don't know where to begin.

[Frosty]

I'm not sure why this matters...


Weren't you the one arguing that there was pressure on the Browns to get rid of Quinn as he was making too much to be a backup?

He is a cheap security blanket this year in case DA falters.

He is also not very smart as he was a first round pick that the Browns gave up a ton to get and then signs a contract where most of the money comes from incentives. ROFL

[Micjones]

TRADE LJ FOR BRADY QUINN!

That's what I've been thinking about all week.

[Micjones]

Weren't you the one arguing that there was pressure on the Browns to get rid of Quinn as he was making too much to be a backup?

No.

Hootie started the discussion about what Quinn makes.

[Codered]

The Browns will probably end up pulling a Chargers when it's all said and done... (Keeping Rivers over Brees... / Keeping Quinn over Anderson...)

To get Quinn you'll likley have to over pay (top 10 first round pick would do it ..)

[Mr. Laz]

don't forget that we paid LJ's signing bonus so that cleveland would be getting a Pro Bowl type RB for pretty cheap too.

[chiefscafan]

I don't like trading our first but if we could do a combo of 2nd and another pick I'd be all for it.

[NewChief]

Not a bad thought. I've always maintained, and still maintain, that depending on the draft to procure a franchise QB is a serious crap shoot. The number of those 1st draft round QBs who actually ended up working out longterm for the team that drafted them has to be crazily miniscule in comparison to the washouts.

[Micjones]

I don't like trading our first but if we could do a combo of 2nd and another pick I'd be all for it.

I'd rather give away one pick than two.
Unless we could get them to take a 2nd and a late rounder.

[Hammock Parties]

Not a bad thought. I've always maintained, and still maintain, that depending on the draft to procure a franchise QB is a serious crap shoot. The number of those 1st draft round QBs who actually ended up working out longterm for the team that drafted them has to be crazily miniscule in comparison to the washouts.

When is Trent going to go Tony Harding on Marc Bulger?

[Frosty]

HUH?

Anderson threw for almost 3,800 yards and 29 TD's.

Why would the Browns NOT lock up DA?

He also threw a bunch of picks.

Mostly, though, because they had a local golden boy on the bench that would have generated a ton of good press locally if they had started (there is a lot of pressure to start BQ). They could have gotten picks for DA while saying something like "We appreciate what Derrick has done for us but we feel that it is time for Brady to take over" or something like that and no one would have blinked.

[blueballs]

Romo - Anderson - Brady
perhaps high round QBs are overrated
for a Herm Edwards' offense it's factual

[TN_Chief]

Yeah, let's add a QB that padded his college career playing against cupcakes and can't beat out Derek Anderson.

Great idea.

[blueballs]

instant gratification baby
just throw money and picks at a problem
Al Davis has never been prouder

[OnTheWarpath15]

He also threw a bunch of picks.

Mostly, though, because they had a local golden boy on the bench that would have generated a ton of good press locally if they had started (there is a lot of pressure to start BQ). They could have gotten picks for DA while saying something like "We appreciate what Derrick has done for us but we feel that it is time for Brady to take over" or something like that and no one would have blinked.

I'll take 29 TD's to 19 INT's every day of the week.

Especially in 527 pass attempts.

And regarding "good press" and "fan pressure" - the minute you cater to what the FANS want, you're doomed as a franchise. Most fans don't have the foggiest ****ing clue.

[Goapics1]

King Carl knows what he is doing

[OnTheWarpath15]

Yeah, let's add a QB that padded his college career playing against cupcakes and can't beat out Derek Anderson.

Great idea.

We have a challenger for "moronic post of the thread", Brock.

There are just TONS of backups that get the nod over a guy that threw for 3,800 yards and 29 TD's.

:rolleyes:

[Mr. Laz]

instant gratification baby
just throw money and picks at a problem
Al Davis has never been prouder
i understand .... but we need a young QB to be part of this rebuilding process.

if we don't develop a young QB then what is the freakin point?

[Frosty]

I'll take 29 TD's to 19 INT's every day of the week.

Especially in 527 pass attempts.

And regarding "good press" and "fan pressure" - the minute you cater to what the FANS want, you're doomed as a franchise. Most fans don't have the foggiest ****ing clue.

I agree it was a great year. I am not arguing that DA isn't a good QB. What I am saying is that there is a ton of pressure by fans and the local media to start BQ. I follow Cleveland a little, since DA is one of "my guys" and there aren't very many people who want him to start. Considering that the Browns' organization is trying to rebuild the goodwill and "name" of the team, it is important, to some extent, what the locals think.

If Quinn had shown anything, no one would have batted an eye to letting DA go.

[NewChief]

When is Trent going to go Tony Harding on Marc Bulger?

Behind that line? I think he's more likely to go Oral Roberts and attempt a faith healing on any injury Bulger incurs.

[Goapics1]

i understand .... but we need a young QB to be part of this rebuilding process.

if we don't develop a young QB then what is the freakin point?

Croyle is only 25..........................................

[CoMoChief]

Honestly.....I don't think I would be totally against the Matt Schuab price.

I'd swap 1st round picks and give up a 2009 2nd rounder as well as a 2010 2nd rounder.

That is unless we could throw in any players....Kolby Smith...Patrick Surtain.

That is waaaaay too much. This team isn't in the position to give up that many draft picks.

[Mr. Laz]

Croyle is only 25..........................................
Croyle can't stay healthy

[FAX]

Croyle can't stay healthy

Let's keep an eye on this particular issue moving forward, Mr. Laz. It may well be that, in Herm's system, we'll have difficulty keeping any quarterback healthy.

FAX THE OPTIMISM MACHINE

[Hammock Parties]

Behind that line? I think he's more likely to go Oral Roberts and attempt a faith healing on any injury Bulger incurs.

Oh well. At least he can go out drinking with Eddie Kennison and Dante Hall. They can share stories about the good old days.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I agree it was a great year. I am not arguing that DA isn't a good QB. What I am saying is that there is a ton of pressure by fans and the local media to start BQ. I follow Cleveland a little, since DA is one of "my guys" and there aren't very many people who want him to start. Considering that the Browns' organization is trying to rebuild the goodwill and "name" of the team, it is important, to some extent, what the locals think.

If Quinn had shown anything, no one would have batted an eye to letting DA go.

Then the fans in Cleveland are absolutely ****ing retarded.

Yep, let's put the guy who almost single-handedly put us in the playoffs on the bench.

I wonder if Philly fans are begging for McInjured to be benched in favor of Kolb?

[triple]

That is waaaaay too much. This team isn't in the position to give up that many draft picks.

Good lord we didn't give up that much for Joe Montana

[Frosty]

Then the fans in Cleveland are absolutely ****ing retarded.

No argument there!

[OnTheWarpath15]

Good lord we didn't give up that much for Joe Montana

Joe Montana was 37 years old.

[Mr. Laz]

Let's keep an eye on this particular issue moving forward, Mr. Laz. It may well be that, in Herm's system, we'll have difficulty keeping any quarterback healthy.

FAX THE OPTIMISM MACHINE

this is true .... but i still think we should keep Brodie but bring in another challenger for the spot just in case.


Quinn
Croyle
Huard



develop 2 young'uns to increase our chances

[blueballs]

what was Montana's injury record
wasn't he injured most of his career
not that croyle is montana

[suds79]

Let's keep an eye on this particular issue moving forward, Mr. Laz. It may well be that, in Herm's system, we'll have difficulty keeping any quarterback healthy.

FAX THE OPTIMISM MACHINE

Moving forward? What more evidence do we need? In 7 starts he's been injured or knocked out 3 times.

Has our line been good? No. But Huard has put up with more of a beating than Croyle and he stays out there.

I don't know if it's his size, the inability to avoid the big hits or falls but we just can't count on this kid. Case closed.

But if anybody needs more time, fine. He'll come back in a couple of weeks and be out in about 2-3 games at most after that.

[ChiefsCountry]

Montana was a different story IMO. Montana was a last piece of the Super Bowl puzzle that didnt pan out, came close but didnt get it done. Dana Stubblefield though would have been a nice piece for our defense.

[blueballs]

how many games did Dawson play in 69
I'm more concerned with a Huard replacement
at this time in the Chiefs rebuild -#2 needs to be solid to experiment

[Mr. Laz]

what was Montana's injury record
wasn't he injured most of his career
not that croyle is montana
<table class="sortable stats_table small_text" id="passing"><thead><tr onmouseover="hl(this);" onmouseout="uhl(this);" class=""><th class="sort_default_asc" align="left">Year</th> <th class="sort_default_asc" onmouseover="Tip('Player\'s age on December 31st of that year')" align="center">Age</th> <th class="sort_default_asc show_partial_when_sorting" align="left">Tm</th> <th class="sort_default_asc" onmouseover="Tip('Position
In player and team season stats,
Capitals indicates primary starter.
Lower-case means part-time starter.')" align="left">Pos</th> <th class="" onmouseover="Tip('Games played')" align="center">G</th> <th class="" onmouseover="Tip('Games started as an offensive or defensive player')" align="center">GS</th> <th class="" onmouseover="Tip('Team record in games started by this QB (regular season)')" align="center">QBrec</th> <th class="" onmouseover="Tip('Passes completed')" align="center">Cmp</th> <th class="" onmouseover="Tip('Passes attempted')" align="center">Att</th> <th class="hide_non_quals" onmouseover="Tip('Percentage of Passes Completed
(minimum 14 attempts per scheduled game to qualify as leader)
(Passes Completed)/(Passes Attempted)')" align="center">Cmp%</th> <th class="" onmouseover="Tip('Yards Gained by Passing
For teams, sack yardage is deducted from this total')" align="center">Yds</th> <th class="" onmouseover="Tip('Passing Touchdowns')" align="center">TD</th> <th class="hide_non_quals" onmouseover="Tip('Percentage of Touchdowns Thrown when Attempting to Pass
(minimum 14 attempts per scheduled game to qualify as leader)
Passing Touchdowns / (Passes Attempted)')" align="center">TD%</th> <th class="" onmouseover="Tip('Interceptions thrown')" align="center">Int</th> <th class="sort_default_asc hide_non_quals" onmouseover="Tip('Percentage of Times Intercepted when Attempting to Pass
(minimum 14 attempts per scheduled game to qualify as leader)
Interceptions / (Passes Attempted)')" align="center">Int%</th> <th class="" onmouseover="Tip('Longest Completed Pass Thrown')" align="center">Lng</th> <th class="hide_non_quals" onmouseover="Tip('Yards gained per pass attempt
(minimum 14 attempts per scheduled games to qualify as leader)
Passing Yards / (Passes Attempted)')" align="center">Y/A</th> <th class="hide_non_quals" onmouseover="Tip('Adjusted Yards gained per pass attempt
(minimum 14 attepts per scheduled game to qualify as leader)
(Passing Yards + 10 * Passing TD - 45 * Interceptions) / (Passes Attempted)')" align="center">AY/A</th> <th class="hide_non_quals" onmouseover="Tip(' Yards gained per pass completion
(minimum 14 attepts per scheduled game to qualify as leader)
(Passing Yards) / (Passes Completed)')" align="center">Y/C</th> <th class="hide_non_quals" onmouseover="Tip(' Yards gained per game played
(minimum half a game played per scheduled game to qualify as leader)
(Passing Yards) / (Games played)')" align="center">Y/G</th> <th class="hide_non_quals" onmouseover="Tip('Quarterback Rating, see glossary for details
Different ratings are used by the NFL and NCAA.')" align="center">Rate</th> </tr> </thead> <tbody> <tr onmouseover="hl(this);" onmouseout="uhl(this);" class="full_table"> <td align="left">1979 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1979/)</td> <td align="right">23</td> <td align="left">SFO (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sfo/1979.htm)</td> <td align="left">
</td> <td align="right">16</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td csk="0.00000" align="right">0-1-0 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/game_query.cgi?qb=MontJo01&yr=1979)</td> <td align="right">13</td> <td align="right">23</td> <td align="right">56.5</td> <td align="right">96</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">4.3</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">0.0</td> <td align="right">18</td> <td align="right">4.2</td> <td align="right">4.6</td> <td align="right">7.4</td> <td align="right">6.0</td> <td align="right">81.1</td> </tr> <tr onmouseover="hl(this);" onmouseout="uhl(this);" class="full_table"> <td align="left">1980 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1980/)</td> <td align="right">24</td> <td align="left">SFO (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sfo/1980.htm)</td> <td align="left">qb</td> <td align="right">15</td> <td align="right">7</td> <td csk="0.28571" align="right">2-5-0 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/game_query.cgi?qb=MontJo01&yr=1980)</td> <td align="right">176</td> <td align="right">273</td> <td align="right">64.5</td> <td align="right">1795</td> <td align="right">15</td> <td align="right">5.5</td> <td align="right">9</td> <td align="right">3.3</td> <td align="right">71</td> <td align="right">6.6</td> <td align="right">5.6</td> <td align="right">10.2</td> <td align="right">119.7</td> <td align="right">87.8</td> </tr> <tr onmouseover="hl(this);" onmouseout="uhl(this);" class="full_table"> <td align="left">1981 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1981/)*</td> <td align="right">25</td> <td align="left">SFO (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sfo/1981.htm)</td> <td align="left">QB</td> <td align="right">16</td> <td align="right">16</td> <td csk="0.81250" align="right">13-3-0 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/game_query.cgi?qb=MontJo01&yr=1981)</td> <td align="right">311</td> <td align="right">488</td> <td align="right">63.7</td> <td align="right">3565</td> <td align="right">19</td> <td align="right">3.9</td> <td align="right">12</td> <td align="right">2.5</td> <td align="right">78</td> <td align="right">7.3</td> <td align="right">6.6</td> <td align="right">11.5</td> <td align="right">222.8</td> <td align="right">88.4</td> </tr> <tr onmouseover="hl(this);" onmouseout="uhl(this);" class="full_table"> <td align="left">1982 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1982/)</td> <td align="right">26</td> <td align="left">SFO (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sfo/1982.htm)</td> <td align="left">QB</td> <td align="right">9</td> <td align="right">9</td> <td csk="0.33333" align="right">3-6-0 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/game_query.cgi?qb=MontJo01&yr=1982)</td> <td align="right">213</td> <td align="right">346</td> <td align="right">61.6</td> <td align="right">2613</td> <td align="right">17</td> <td align="right">4.9</td> <td align="right">11</td> <td align="right">3.2</td> <td align="right">55</td> <td align="right">7.6</td> <td align="right">6.6</td> <td align="right">12.3</td> <td align="right">290.3</td> <td align="right">88.0</td> </tr> <tr onmouseover="hl(this);" onmouseout="uhl(this);" class="full_table"> <td align="left">1983 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1983/)*</td> <td align="right">27</td> <td align="left">SFO (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sfo/1983.htm)</td> <td align="left">QB</td> <td align="right">16</td> <td align="right">16</td> <td csk="0.62500" align="right">10-6-0 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/game_query.cgi?qb=MontJo01&yr=1983)</td> <td align="right">332</td> <td align="right">515</td> <td align="right">64.5</td> <td align="right">3910</td> <td align="right">26</td> <td align="right">5.0</td> <td align="right">12</td> <td align="right">2.3</td> <td align="right">77</td> <td align="right">7.6</td> <td align="right">7.0</td> <td align="right">11.8</td> <td align="right">244.4</td> <td align="right">94.6</td> </tr> <tr onmouseover="hl(this);" onmouseout="uhl(this);" class="full_table"> <td align="left">1984 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1984/)*</td> <td align="right">28</td> <td align="left">SFO (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sfo/1984.htm)</td> <td align="left">QB</td> <td align="right">16</td> <td align="right">15</td> <td csk="0.93333" align="right">14-1-0 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/game_query.cgi?qb=MontJo01&yr=1984)</td> <td align="right">279</td> <td align="right">432</td> <td align="right">64.6</td> <td align="right">3630</td> <td align="right">28</td> <td align="right">6.5</td> <td align="right">10</td> <td align="right">2.3</td> <td align="right">80</td> <td align="right">8.4</td> <td align="right">8.0</td> <td align="right">13.0</td> <td align="right">226.9</td> <td align="right">102.9</td> </tr> <tr onmouseover="hl(this);" onmouseout="uhl(this);" class="full_table"> <td align="left">1985 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1985/)*</td> <td align="right">29</td> <td align="left">SFO (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sfo/1985.htm)</td> <td align="left">QB</td> <td align="right">15</td> <td align="right">15</td> <td csk="0.60000" align="right">9-6-0 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/game_query.cgi?qb=MontJo01&yr=1985)</td> <td align="right">303</td> <td align="right">494</td> <td align="right">61.3</td> <td align="right">3653</td> <td align="right">27</td> <td align="right">5.5</td> <td align="right">13</td> <td align="right">2.6</td> <td align="right">73</td> <td align="right">7.4</td> <td align="right">6.8</td> <td align="right">12.1</td> <td align="right">243.5</td> <td align="right">91.3</td> </tr> <tr onmouseover="hl(this);" onmouseout="uhl(this);" class="full_table"> <td align="left">1986 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1986/)</td> <td align="right">30</td> <td align="left">SFO (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sfo/1986.htm)</td> <td align="left">QB</td> <td align="right">8</td> <td align="right">8</td> <td csk="0.75000" align="right">6-2-0 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/game_query.cgi?qb=MontJo01&yr=1986)</td> <td align="right">191</td> <td align="right">307</td> <td align="right">62.2</td> <td align="right">2236</td> <td align="right">8</td> <td align="right">2.6</td> <td align="right">9</td> <td align="right">2.9</td> <td align="right">48</td> <td align="right">7.3</td> <td align="right">6.2</td> <td align="right">11.7</td> <td align="right">279.5</td> <td align="right">80.7</td> </tr> <tr onmouseover="hl(this);" onmouseout="uhl(this);" class="full_table"> <td align="left">1987 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1987/)*+</td> <td align="right">31</td> <td align="left">SFO (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sfo/1987.htm)</td> <td align="left">QB</td> <td align="right">13</td> <td align="right">11</td> <td csk="0.90909" align="right">10-1-0 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/game_query.cgi?qb=MontJo01&yr=1987)</td> <td align="right">266</td> <td align="right">398</td> <td align="right">66.8</td> <td align="right">3054</td> <td align="right">31</td> <td align="right">7.8</td> <td align="right">13</td> <td align="right">3.3</td> <td align="right">57</td> <td align="right">7.7</td> <td align="right">7.0</td> <td align="right">11.5</td> <td align="right">234.9</td> <td align="right">102.1</td> </tr> <tr onmouseover="hl(this);" onmouseout="uhl(this);" class="full_table"> <td align="left">1988 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1988/)</td> <td align="right">32</td> <td align="left">SFO (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sfo/1988.htm)</td> <td align="left">QB</td> <td align="right">14</td> <td align="right">13</td> <td csk="0.61538" align="right">8-5-0 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/game_query.cgi?qb=MontJo01&yr=1988)</td> <td align="right">238</td> <td align="right">397</td> <td align="right">59.9</td> <td align="right">2981</td> <td align="right">18</td> <td align="right">4.5</td> <td align="right">10</td> <td align="right">2.5</td> <td align="right">96</td> <td align="right">7.5</td> <td align="right">6.8</td> <td align="right">12.5</td> <td align="right">212.9</td> <td align="right">87.9</td> </tr> <tr onmouseover="hl(this);" onmouseout="uhl(this);" class="full_table"> <td align="left">1989 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1989/)*+</td> <td align="right">33</td> <td align="left">SFO (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sfo/1989.htm)</td> <td align="left">QB</td> <td align="right">13</td> <td align="right">13</td> <td csk="0.84615" align="right">11-2-0 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/game_query.cgi?qb=MontJo01&yr=1989)</td> <td align="right">271</td> <td align="right">386</td> <td align="right">70.2</td> <td align="right">3521</td> <td align="right">26</td> <td align="right">6.7</td> <td align="right">8</td> <td align="right">2.1</td> <td align="right">95</td> <td align="right">9.1</td> <td align="right">8.9</td> <td align="right">13.0</td> <td align="right">270.8</td> <td align="right">112.4</td> </tr> <tr onmouseover="hl(this);" onmouseout="uhl(this);" class="full_table"> <td align="left">1990 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1990/)*+</td> <td align="right">34</td> <td align="left">SFO (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sfo/1990.htm)</td> <td align="left">QB</td> <td align="right">15</td> <td align="right">15</td> <td csk="0.93333" align="right">14-1-0 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/game_query.cgi?qb=MontJo01&yr=1990)</td> <td align="right">321</td> <td align="right">520</td> <td align="right">61.7</td> <td align="right">3944</td> <td align="right">26</td> <td align="right">5.0</td> <td align="right">16</td> <td align="right">3.1</td> <td align="right">78</td> <td align="right">7.6</td> <td align="right">6.7</td> <td align="right">12.3</td> <td align="right">262.9</td> <td align="right">89.0</td> </tr> <tr onmouseover="hl(this);" onmouseout="uhl(this);" class="full_table"> <td align="left">1992 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1992/)</td> <td align="right">36</td> <td align="left">SFO (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sfo/1992.htm)</td> <td align="left">
</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">15</td> <td align="right">21</td> <td align="right">71.4</td> <td align="right">126</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">9.5</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">0.0</td> <td align="right">17</td> <td align="right">6.0</td> <td align="right">7.0</td> <td align="right">8.4</td> <td align="right">126.0</td> <td align="right">118.4</td> </tr> <tr onmouseover="hl(this);" onmouseout="uhl(this);" class="full_table"> <td align="left">1993 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1993/)*</td> <td align="right">37</td> <td align="left">KAN (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/kan/1993.htm)</td> <td align="left">QB</td> <td align="right">11</td> <td align="right">11</td> <td csk="0.72727" align="right">8-3-0 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/game_query.cgi?qb=MontJo01&yr=1993)</td> <td align="right">181</td> <td align="right">298</td> <td align="right">60.7</td> <td align="right">2144</td> <td align="right">13</td> <td align="right">4.4</td> <td align="right">7</td> <td align="right">2.3</td> <td align="right">50</td> <td align="right">7.2</td> <td align="right">6.6</td> <td align="right">11.8</td> <td align="right">194.9</td> <td align="right">87.4</td> </tr> <tr onmouseover="hl(this);" onmouseout="uhl(this);" class="full_table"> <td align="left">1994 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1994/)</td> <td align="right">38</td> <td align="left">KAN (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/kan/1994.htm)</td> <td align="left">QB</td> <td align="right">14</td> <td align="right">14</td> <td csk="0.64286" align="right">9-5-0 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/game_query.cgi?qb=MontJo01&yr=1994)</td> <td align="right">299</td> <td align="right">493</td> <td align="right">60.6</td> <td align="right">3283</td> <td align="right">16</td> <td align="right">3.2</td> <td align="right">9</td> <td align="right">1.8</td> <td align="right">57</td> <td align="right">6.7</td> <td align="right">6.2</td> <td align="right">11.0</td> <td align="right">234.5</td> <td align="right">83.6</td> </tr> </tbody> <tfoot> <tr onmouseover="hl(this);" onmouseout="uhl(this);" class="stat_total"> <td align="left">Career</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left">
</td> <td align="left">
</td> <td align="right">192</td> <td align="right">164</td> <td align="right">117-47-0 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/game_query.cgi?qb=MontJo01)</td> <td align="right">3409</td> <td align="right">5391</td> <td align="right">63.2</td> <td align="right">40551</td> <td align="right">273</td> <td align="right">5.1</td> <td align="right">139</td> <td align="right">2.6</td> <td align="right">96</td> <td align="right">7.5</td> <td align="right">6.9</td> <td align="right">11.9</td> <td align="right">211.2</td> <td align="right">92.3</td> </tr> </tfoot></table>

[The Franchise]

Good lord we didn't give up that much for Joe Montana

That was 93....this is 2008. I'm pretty sure that the 1st round pick back then didn't make as much as they do now. Times have changed.

[DeezNutz]

That was 93....this is 2008. I'm pretty sure that the 1st round pick back then didn't make as much as they do now. Times have changed.

And the age difference between the players means very little, too.

[Pablo]

this is true .... but i still think we should keep Brodie but bring in another challenger for the spot just in case.


Quinn
Croyle
Huard



develop 2 young'uns to increase our chances

Quinn
Croyle
Martin

All three would be young...and better than Hutard and Pigpen.

[FAX]

Moving forward? What more evidence do we need? In 7 starts he's been injured or knocked out 3 times.

Has our line been good? No. But Huard has put up with more of a beating than Croyle and he stays out there.

I don't know if it's his size, the inability to avoid the big hits or falls but we just can't count on this kid. Case closed.

But if anybody needs more time, fine. He'll come back in a couple of weeks and be out in about 2-3 games at most after that.

I wasn't speaking specifically or uniquely about Croyle, Mr. suds79. As for Downfield, do you not recall him basically giving up last year?

What I am attempting to say, albeit clumsily, is that Herm goes through quarterbacks like Mr. seclark goes through 40 ouncers. Croyle may be injury prone, or just unlucky, or just plain made out of blown glass, but I'm interested in seeing how long our next 2 or 3 quarterbacks can last in this system, as well. Dig?

FAX THE HEAVY ON THE OPTIMISM

[rad]

Weren't you the one arguing that there was pressure on the Browns to get rid of Quinn as he was making too much to be a backup?

He is a cheap security blanket this year in case DA falters.

He is also not very smart as he was a first round pick that the Browns gave up a ton to get and then signs a contract where most of the money comes from incentives. ROFL

Quinn was expected to start. They didn't see DA coming....he kinda came out of nowhere. Don't forget they played Frye over DA the year prior.

[jjchieffan]

I have an idea that might be more appealing to both teams. If we trade for Quinn, then obviously we are giving up on Croyle as a starter. Why not offer Brodie and say a 2nd or 3rd round pick? That way, Cleveland still has a capable backup the event that Anderson goes down, and we get to keep our first rould pick to spend on another need. At the range we will be picking(not in the top 5), LB would be a great grab, as well as filling a pressing need. I would rather keep that pick.

[Frosty]

Quinn was expected to start. They didn't see DA coming....he kinda came out of nowhere. Don't forget they played Frye over DA the year prior.

Which furthers my argument that Quinn ain't "all that".

[Brock]

Good lord we didn't give up that much for Joe Montana

That would be relevant if we were talking about trading for Tom Brady 10 years from now.

[CoMoChief]

Which furthers my argument that Quinn ain't "all that".

They weren't committed to starting a rookie in his first year to begin with.

After they saw how DA starting kicking ass and CLE actually started to be competitive, and with Crennell on the hot seat, why fix what's not broken?!?!

DA is young, they found the QB they needed......IMO Quinn is a lame duck up there in CLE. sometimes its just the way the league works.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Quinn was expected to start. They didn't see DA coming....he kinda came out of nowhere. Don't forget they played Frye over DA the year prior.

Quinn was expected to start by the FANS.

The club did the right thing - started Anderson, knowing that he had half the season to show something, or Quinn would get some work.

Anderson did a little more than "something".

[seclark]

Herm goes through quarterbacks like Mr. seclark goes through 40 ouncers.

FAX THE HEAVY ON THE OPTIMISM

thanks for the nod...i think.
sec

[OnTheWarpath15]

They weren't committed to starting a rookie in his first year to begin with.

After they saw how DA starting kicking ass and CLE actually started to be competitive, and with Crennell on the hot seat, why fix what's not broken?!?!

DA is young, they found the QB they needed......IMO Quinn is a lame duck up there in CLE. sometimes its just the way the league works.

Beat me to it.

[Micjones]

This makes sense for both franchises.

Please get this done.

[Chiefnj2]

This makes sense for both franchises.

Please get this done.

Except it makes little sense for Cleveland.

[FAX]

Yeah ... I don't see the benefit to Cleveland unless we have a high pick and a studly running back they think could get them going offensively. Otherwise ... ?? I don't see their motivation.

FAX THE STILL POSITIVE BUT LOSING THE BATTLE

[Micjones]

Except it makes little sense for Cleveland.

Sure it does.
They get a higher #1 back to replace the one that had been rotting away on the Cleveland sideline.

[Brock]

Sure it does.
They get a higher #1 back to replace the one that had been rotting away on the Cleveland sideline.

But they lose their cheap insurance policy. They aren't going to be nearly as motivated as you seem to think.

[The Franchise]

But they lose their cheap insurance policy. They aren't going to be nearly as motivated as you seem to think.

So let's trade them LJ, Damon Huard and our 2nd round pick for Brady Quinn.

There they have a #1 back, a QB that knows how to go into the fetal position and a 2nd round pick that they can use to draft a younger insurance policy next year.

[rad]

Which furthers my argument that Quinn ain't "all that".

How?

Because he got to camp late and couldn't beat out DA and Frye that year? Why did Frye start the season as the starter before being traded to Seattle? Does that mean Frye is better than DA? I don't think it does. Maybe it has more to do with shitty talent evaluation, or money, or whatever.

Have you ever seen BQ play as a Brown?

[rad]

They weren't committed to starting a rookie in his first year to begin with.

After they saw how DA starting kicking ass and CLE actually started to be competitive, and with Crennell on the hot seat, why fix what's not broken?!?!

DA is young, they found the QB they needed......IMO Quinn is a lame duck up there in CLE. sometimes its just the way the league works.

Yes.

[Nightfyre]

I would be willing to trade LJ + a second should a second not suffice. :) But not a top-5 or top-10 pick when these next couple draft classes are so strong overall.

[JuicesFlowing]

As long as John Brodie Croyle is breathing and able to walk, Herm will have faith that he is our QB of the future. Although, come to think of it, I believe if Mr. John Croyle were in a wheelchair, Herm might allow Chan to design some special plays for us to still see Alabama behind center .... Or we could just see if Huard can play until he is 45 years old ... I don't know. I don't see KC actually making any smart moves at the QB position. I mean, it's not as if the Chiefs have any money to spend ... OH WAIT ...

[tk13]

It's a very interesting question... but I'd have to ask, given what our 1st round draft position is likely to be... would you trade Glenn Dorsey for Brady Quinn?

I know that's not literally the case, but it kind of is. Somebody really good could be there when we pick. Would you trade Rey Maualuga for Brady Quinn?

[007]

I'd go for it for a 2nd. Maybe even something a little higher if there was some sort of multiple pick deal.
Agreed. I wouldn't give up the 1st pick for him. I don't see how riding the bench gives him any true NFL experience.

[Nightfyre]

It's a very interesting question... but I'd have to ask, given what our 1st round draft position is likely to be... would you trade Glenn Dorsey for Brady Quinn?

I know that's not literally the case, but it kind of is. Somebody really good could be there when we pick. Would you trade Rey Maualuga for Brady Quinn?

To me, dominant DTs are just a touch less important than QBs. Dorsey has to be the best draft day DT in the last 5 years, maybe longer. He pretty much maxes out the DT grade. Quinn comes nowhere close to maxxing out the QB grade. Thus, I would not.

Similarly, Maualuga could become a field general in a couple years. MLBs who fulfill that role are as important as DTs, imo. Maualuga also maxes out the grade at his position. I would not make the trade.

The reason I am willing to put LJ on the block is because the franchise running back concept is a joke, and the chiefs have been the punchline for the last three decades. Really, imo, a RB is a product, more or less, of his O-Line.

A second round pick would be ideal value for BQ, imo. He was drafted in the late first and he's rotting on a bench. We could kick in a QB to fulfill his backup role.

And this year's draft is once again a relatively strong class with a fair amount of cream at the top at positions of need for us. It's just not worth a BQ to be giving up a top 5 pick in a year in which we could potentially trade back to 5-10 and still hit one of the best prospects in the draft.

If Bradford, Stafford, Sanchez, and Tebow all come out, we could potentially trade up for the guy we wanted, stay put and take who we like there, or trade back further and take the third option. The flexibility would be outstanding. That's unlikely, but its just another reason why I wouldn't give up our first.

[ClevelandBronco]

the Browns would be insane to take anything less than our #1 for Quinn.

The Browns fans will burn down the stadium if the team takes anything less than a high #1. He's an Ohio product. They want to see him play in a Cleveland uniform (although they might be consoled by a good deal for him). They see this guy in some ways as the second coming of Bernie Kosar. He's an in-state kid who wants to play for the team. That's a rare and fun story these days.

Now Kosar jumped through all kinds of hoops to make it likely that he'd play for the Browns. No, Bernie never got the whole job done, but it didn't matter. He was the same kind of true believer the fans were, and that was enough for us. We loved that guy, and when he got his Super Bowl ring as a backup with the Cowboys, I think everyone in Cleveland was happy to see it happen.

Quinn is going to cost his next team something serious, because he could cost the Browns something serious if he succeeds in colors other than seal brown and orange.

[ClevelandBronco]

Quinn was expected to start by the FANS.

The club did the right thing - started Anderson, knowing that he had half the season to show something, or Quinn would get some work.

Anderson did a little more than "something".

And that's the Browns' dilemma right now. They have the better player on the field, and the fan favorite on the sideline (or perhaps on the trading block?)...

[Nightfyre]

And that's the Browns' dilemma right now. They have the better player on the field, and the fan favorite on the sideline (or perhaps on the trading block?)...
you're an unbiased local. What do you estimate their asking price would be for BQ?

[Mecca]

The odds of trading for a QB aren't good unless you want to overpay.....

We're going to have 2 options, draft one or sign some vet.

[Mecca]

Also I'm going to disagree with some of this stuff....

How does Quinn bring experience? He sits on the bench, if you think he's experienced then Brodie Croyle is a seasoned vet. And how do we know he brings leadership? That's just an assumption more than anything.

[Mecca]

I also see alot of Derrick Anderson stat lauding, if anyone watched them play....he makes alot of horrible throws that completely sail high and his outstanding receivers bail him out...

He also played very poorly against Cincy in a game they had to win...I don't think that team is remotely sold on Anderson as the guy anymore than they are that his line and receivers are making him look at alot better than he actually is.

[TREX]

I like Quinn. He is tough,durrable and has heart. Im of the opinion that Croyle is fragile and will not make it in the NFL. I hate to say it but he seems kind of pussified. I would love to see the Chiefs go after Chase Daniels. He has the warrior factor that I do not see in Croyle. The Chiefs need a fiery leader as the QB. Not a injury prone passive lamb.

[Mecca]

The Chase Daniel shit again.......he is a midget.....he does not have an NFL future, he is a very good college player for a local school, that's great, but his NFL future sucks.

[TREX]

Brees and Farve are not large Qbs and both have been successful.Size is not the issue. The issue is heart,skill and intelligence.The it factor.

[Mecca]

Brees and Farve are not large Qbs and both have been successful.Size is not the issue. The issue is heart,skill and intelligence.The it factor.

Oh dear Christ.....I suggest you go look up the size of Brett Favre he is by no means a small man.

If you can make Chase Daniel who is literally 5'9 grow 5 inches then we'll talk.

And for the record Brees is very much an exception there's a reason why nearly all of the good QB's in the league are 6'4 and 225+ lbs.

[007]

The Chase Daniel shit again.......he is a midget.....he does not have an NFL future, he is a very good college player for a local school, that's great, but his NFL future sucks.
But he is a taller midget than Todd Reesing.

[Mecca]

But he is a taller midget than Todd Reesing.

LOL, you know I really like that everyones college teams around here are doing well it makes everyone more into college and more into watching the games and seeing more players. But for the love of God I just wish people could tell what players on their teams are legit NFL prospects, any QB who is under 6' tall is not going to be a legit prospect.

[007]

LOL, you know I really like that everyones college teams around here are doing well it makes everyone more into college and more into watching the games and seeing more players. But for the love of God I just wish people could tell what players on their teams are legit NFL prospects, any QB who is under 6' tall is not going to be a legit prospect.
completely agreed. AS the linemen grew it all but required QBs to be taller. We are going to see more and more QBs built like Culpepper was/is.

Oh, and I am thrilled that I finally have a reason to care about college football again. These past couple of years have been great.