All you guys that were so excited when DV retired!

[chiefsfan1963]

Where are they now? I knew all this would happen. We were very fortunate to have DV coach our team. Despite all the negatives everyone would wish that DV's retirement was a dream (Like a Dallas Episode) and that it never happened.

I can't believe Clark is going to let CP and Herm have another year of this and hide behind REBUILDING!

He's truly the real embarrassment of this league not the Chief's!

[Sure-Oz]

Dickless made our defense an embarrassment, unfortunately now our offense is just as bad as that defense was....we aren't any better

New GM and new Coaching will make things better

[triple]

Herm sucking does not mean DV was going to take us to the super bowl.

[Thig Lyfe]

Same suck, different story.

[noa]

Despite all the negatives everyone would wish that DV's retirement was a dream (Like a Dallas Episode) and that it never happened.

Not me. I don't particularly like having the worst defense in football.

[dj56dt58]

the same my ass..what the ****? We had a chance to win each and every game under Vermiel..now we're getting our asses handed to us by Oakland. If you think Herm is even close to Vermiel your ****ing retarded. Our defenses were bad then because of the players, our offense is horrible because Herm thinks you can run run swing pass and punt every ****ing god damn series

[L.A. Chieffan]

Where are they now? I knew all this would happen. We were very fortunate to have DV coach our team. Despite all the negatives everyone would wish that DV's retirement was a dream (Like a Dallas Episode) and that it never happened.

I can't believe Clark is going to let CP and Herm have another year of this and hide behind REBUILDING!

He's truly the real embarrassment of this league not the Chief's!

Rebuilding. Get over it.

[Thig Lyfe]

same suck my ass..what the ****? We had a chance to win each and every game under Vermiel..now we're getting our asses handed to us by Oakland. If you think Herm is even close to Vermiel your ****ing retarded. Our defenses were bad then because of the players, our offense is horrible because Herm thinks you can run run swing pass and punt every ****ing god damn series

No, it was the same suck. Just in a shinier package.

Neither regime ever had a chance at winning a playoff game.

[chiefsfan1963]

absolutely no comparison to the current coaching staff and the one before. you might disagree with how they were coaching the team and if they had the right formula to get us to the SB, but in terms of production and pure enjoyment DV is hands down the better HC.

We agree that CP and Herm have to go, but I would rather have a HC that is Offensive minded than Defensive minded.

[noa]

the same my ass..what the ****? We had a chance to win each and every game under Vermiel..now we're getting our asses handed to us by Oakland. If you think Herm is even close to Vermiel your ****ing retarded. Our defenses were bad then because of the players, our offense is horrible because Herm thinks you can run run swing pass and punt every ****ing god damn series

What do you think DV would have done with this team over the last three years? My guess is we would have just continued the same old stuff. Win 7 or 9 games and try to fill our needs by signing veteran free agents. Its not a long term plan. And I doubt DV would have solved our QB problem.

And I'm not saying Herm is a good coach, I just don't think DV would be doing us any good right now either.

[chiefsfan1963]

the same my ass..what the ****? We had a chance to win each and every game under Vermiel..now we're getting our asses handed to us by Oakland. If you think Herm is even close to Vermiel your ****ing retarded. Our defenses were bad then because of the players, our offense is horrible because Herm thinks you can run run swing pass and punt every ****ing god damn series

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

[FAX]

I'm sorry.

FAX

[chiefsfan1963]

Not me. I don't particularly like having the worst defense in football.

You have your wish.... Enjoy. :rolleyes:

[noa]

We had the best offense in the league in 2003 and had 9 pro bowlers and guess what DV did with that...lost at home in our first playoff game. Not exactly what I am looking for in a head coach. Neither DV nor Herm is the answer.

[noa]

Bring back the glory days when we literally could not stop our opponent a single time at home in the playoffs.

[Bugeater]

One would think that after three years your Dick love would've waned a bit.

[Smed1065]

absolutely no comparison to the current coaching staff and the one before. you might disagree with how they were coaching the team and if they had the right formula to get us to the SB, but in terms of production and pure enjoyment DV is hands down the better HC.

We agree that CP and Herm have to go, but I would rather have a HC that is Offensive minded than Defensive minded.


I would rather suck DV than a true plan. Because he is the reason we need 2 or drafts does it does not matter, slober him...

I suk DV, his name was cool and he knew talent.

[chiefsfan1963]

We had the best offense in the league in 2003 and had 9 pro bowlers and guess what DV did with that...lost at home in our first playoff game. Not exactly what I am looking for in a head coach. Neither DV nor Herm is the answer.

You would take DV right now if given the choice. Don't kid yourself.

Watching these last 11 regular season losses in a row and this pathetic anemic offense would have any fan welcome DV and his staff with open arms!!!!!!!!!

The thread is not saying DV is the answer for the future, but he was certainly headed in the right direction unlike the current HC.

Oh don't forget that it was entertaining to actually watch the Chief's play on Sunday when DV coached our team.

[Thig Lyfe]

If the goal of playing football in the NFL is to win a Super Bowl, and neither coach is at all capable of achieving that goal, then the two coaches suck equally.

The snazzy offense under Vermeil was a façade. It covered up for the worst defense ever for a while, but eventually it all collapsed.

[chiefsfan1963]

One would think that after three years your Dick love would've waned a bit.

Have you seen what his replacement has been doing?

I think you would find a little love for him right now as well. Those days were much better than they are now.

[FAX]

I have to admit that, merely from an entertainment perspective, you have an excellent point, Mr. chiefsfan1963. At least under DV's rule, we were setting records in things like Scoring and Touchdowns and First Downs and stuff like that. Now we're going for things like "Most Consecutive Games That Don't Make Sense" and "Yards Per Anus".

FAX

[chiefsfan1963]

If the goal of playing football in the NFL is to win a Super Bowl, and neither coach is at all capable of achieving that goal, then the two coaches suck equally.

The snazzy offense under Vermeil was a façade. It covered up for the worst defense ever for a while, but eventually it all collapsed.

You're in denial bud! Enjoy the rest of the Herm years. Keep holding on to the above belief hopefully it will get you through the next 2 years.

[DaneMcCloud]

Have you seen what his replacement has been doing?

I think you would find a little love for him right now as well. Those days were much better than they are now.

You're a dumb****.

Vermeil killed this team. Period.

6-10.
8-8.
13-3
7-9
10-6

NO playoff wins. ONE playoff appearance. SHITTY ****ING DRAFTS FOR 5 YEARS.

You're just dumber than ****.

I guess you just don't know it.

[noa]

You would take DV right now if given the choice. Don't kid yourself.

No I wouldn't, don't kid yourself. Not everyone is as delusional as you.

Watching these last 11 regular season losses in a row and this pathetic anemic offense would have any fan welcome DV and his staff with open arms!!!!!!!!![

The thread is not saying DV is the answer for the future, but he was certainly headed in the right direction unlike the current HC.No, it was a short term plan. We were an old team thanks to Dick. We couldn't sustain a long run up to the current year. We had to blow up the roster because of Dick and his poor drafting and his reliance on veteran free agents.

Vermeil was the type of guy who had too much loyalty for our own good. He couldn't fire Greg Robinson in time. He brought in guys like Dexter McLeon because he had a personal connection to them. That's not how you win in the NFL anymore and certainly wasn't getting us headed in the right direction.

Oh don't forget that it was entertaining to actually watch the Chief's play on Sunday when DV coached our team.I don't care about entertainment, I care about winning the Super Bowl. I'd rather be the boring ass Ravens SB championship team than the high flying Chiefs who can't win a playoff game.

[DaneMcCloud]

I don't care about entertainment, I care about winning the Super Bowl. I'd rather be the boring ass Ravens SB championship team than the high flying Chiefs who can't win a playoff game.

That's all Chiefs fans care about.

Being entertained on Sunday with a meaningless win.

20 years and counting...

[Smed1065]

Where are they now? I knew all this would happen. We were very fortunate to have DV coach our team. Despite all the negatives everyone would wish that DV's retirement was a dream (Like a Dallas Episode) and that it never happened.

I can't believe Clark is going to let CP and Herm have another year of this and hide behind REBUILDING!

He's truly the real embarrassment of this league not the Chief's!

I can believe they let you be a "fan" for another year. See ya, we will not miss you.

Kiss offf.

[Smed1065]

You would take DV right now if given the choice. Don't kid yourself.

Watching these last 11 regular season losses in a row and this pathetic anemic offense would have any fan welcome DV and his staff with open arms?

The thread is saying DV is the answer for the future, but he was certainly headed in the right direction unlike the current HC.

Oh don't forget that it was entertaining to actually watch the Chief's play on Sunday when DV coached our team.

Thats is why you suck his dick still. He made the playoffs and sucked. Woo.

Show me he was better in his first two years as the hated one.
If not, shut the **** up.

Typical KC "fan"

[BigRock]

That's all Chiefs fans care about.

Being entertained on Sunday with a meaningless win.

20 years and counting...

BUT BUT BUT IT'S SO MUCH BETTER LOSING 50-49

[Ultra Peanut]

Sucked then, suck now. Suck suck sucks.

[DaneMcCloud]

BUT BUT BUT IT'S SO MUCH BETTER LOSING 50-49

Which is why Mackovic lasted 4 seasons.

His teams were usually "in the game".

****ing stupid bullshit.

[FAX]

You know, all common sense aside, I don't see any redeeming attributes in a showing like we had today. Sure, a loss is a loss, but I'd rather see the Chiefs score more than one touchdown every couple of games or so. Frankly, if I had my 'druthers', I'd like to see the Chiefs return as a threat to score a touchdown everytime they had the ball on offense.

There's no shame in scoring, gentlemen. Did DV sell the soul of the franchise to build his offense? Sure. Did he struggle putting a competitive defense on the field? Absolutely. But which team is more fun to watch and capable of making it all the way? The one that could put 40 on you without breaking a sweat, or the one that can't convert a first down? The one that gave up 350 yards rushing, or the one that gave up 300?

In my heart, I know that the two goals of fielding a fearsome offense and a team that isn't populated with Methuselah's elder brothers aren't mutually exclusive. Alternatively, neither is the notion of a team comprised of young, ascending players and one that can move the chains more than 4 times in 60 minutes.

FAX

[Thig Lyfe]

You're in denial bud! Enjoy the rest of the Herm years. Keep holding on to the above belief hopefully it will get you through the next 2 years.

In denial? That doesn't even make sense.

[DaneMcCloud]

You know, all common sense aside, I don't see any redeeming attributes in a showing like we had today. Sure, a loss is a loss, but I'd rather see the Chiefs score more than one touchdown every couple of games or so. Frankly, if I had my 'druthers', I'd like to see the Chiefs return as a threat to score a touchdown everytime they had the ball on offense.

There's no shame in scoring, gentlemen. Did DV sell the soul of the franchise to build his offense? Sure. Did he struggle putting a competitive defense on the field? Absolutely. But which team is more fun to watch and capable of making it all the way? The one that could put 40 on you without breaking a sweat, or the one that can't convert a first down? The one that gave up 350 yards rushing, or the one that gave up 300?

In my heart, I know that the two goals of fielding a fearsome offense and a team that isn't populated with Methuselah's elder brothers aren't mutually exclusive. Alternatively, neither is the notion of a team comprised of young, ascending players and one that can move the chains more than 4 times in 60 minutes.

FAX

The Chiefs scored a touchdown today with a 7th round, waived draft choice who took only 50% of the snaps in practice this week. A guy who didn't play for USC or Miami or Ohio State or Florida. A guy who played for a 1-AA school who spent all of last year watching.

Doesn't THAT say SOMETHING?

[TinyEvel]

Garbage TD.

WHen did you become a homer? I thought you were supposed to be a dick.

[CHIEF4EVER]

In Vermeils defense, he has something no Chiefs coach has got since Stram.....a SB ring. Not saying I want him back or even agree in any way with the OP. Just pointing out the fact that he wasn't Mackovic part II.

[DaneMcCloud]

Garbage TD.

WHen did you become a homer? I thought you were supposed to be a dick.

I'll always be a dick

[DaneMcCloud]

In Vermeils defense, he has something no Chiefs coach has got since Stram.....a SB ring. Not saying I want him back or even agree in any way with the OP. Just pointing out the fact that he wasn't Mackovic part II.

With Mike Martz calling the offensive shots and John Shaw forcing Martz AND Marshall Faulk on his squad.

Remember, Vermeil's teams went 5-11 & 4-12 before the arrival of Martz and the personnel (including Torry Holt).

[CHIEF4EVER]

With Mike Martz calling the offensive shots and John Shaw forcing Martz AND Marshall Faulk on his squad.

Remember, Vermeil's teams went 5-11 & 4-12 before the arrival of Martz and the personnel (including Torry Holt).

You make it sound like he had nothing to do with the rebuilding and eventual success of the team resulting in a ring. So what if his teams went 5-11 and 4-12 before he won it all. That's what happens when you take over a shitty team and build a winner. The man has a helluva offensive mind and is a superb football coach. Again, don't really want him back but give him the respect he has earned for goodness sake.

[DaneMcCloud]

You make it sound like he had nothing to do with the rebuilding and eventual success of the team resulting in a ring. So what if his teams went 5-11 and 4-12 before he won it all. That's what happens when you take over a shitty team and build a winner. The man has a helluva offensive mind and is a superb football coach. Again, don't really want him back but give him the respect he has earned for goodness sake.

No, he didn't.

He was a stubborn old bastard that was forced to either take orders from John Shaw or be fired.

The same thing happened in KC with Larry Johnson; Peterson drafted him while Vermeil wanted Tyler Brayton (another ****ing Vermeil reach). The consequences were that LJ was in Vermeil's "doghouse" and called him out in front of the national media.

He's a grumpy old **** that should have never been hired. Additionally, he didn't do jackshit for the Chiefs.

Unless you consider completely ****ing up their roster for the better part of a decade a great thing.

[tk13]

The same thing happened in KC with Larry Johnson; Peterson drafted him while Vermeil wanted Tyler Brayton (another ****ing Vermeil reach). The consequences were that LJ was in Vermeil's "doghouse" and called him out in front of the national media.

Yeah, LJ has so been so much better since they got the noose that was DV off his neck. Or something.

[DaneMcCloud]

Yeah, LJ has so been so much better since they got the noose that was DV off his neck. Or something.

Are you implying that LJ's decline is somehow related to Vermeil's exit?

Not the 4,200+ yards his body endured since he became a starter?

But Dick Vermeil?

Really?

And I suppose that the retirement of Willie Roaf and Will Shields has had no impact on Johnson's performance?

[tk13]

Oh I think it's played a part. LJ's been roughed up, but geez it's not like he's that banged up people. I'd bet money if you put him in a good offense on another team he'd look a lot more like 2005 LJ .

We've coddled him too much. And now alienated him with the offensive philosophy. DV handled him perfectly. Didn't play him too much as a rookie when he was really raw, told him he needed to learn to block and would ride him so he'd play with a chip on his shoulder. He ran for 5+ yards a carry in DV's last year... even with Jordan Black at LT. It didn't matter.

[DaneMcCloud]

Oh I think it's played a part. LJ's been roughed up, but geez it's not like he's that banged up people. I'd bet money if you put him in a good offense on another team he'd look a lot more like 2005 LJ .

We've coddled him too much. And now alienated him with the offensive philosophy. DV handled him perfectly. Didn't play him too much as a rookie when he was really raw, told him he needed to learn to block and would ride him so he'd play with a chip on his shoulder. He ran for 5+ yards a carry in DV's last year... even with Jordan Black at LT. It didn't matter.

That's speculation, not fact.

If you're claiming that LJ performed better with Jordan Black, there's your answer.

He's had the shit beaten out of him for the past 3+ years.

LJ made Jordan Black look good.

Not the other way around.

[Hootie]

maybe because...despite the fact DV had horrible drafts...he still knew how to A) gameplan, B) run an offense, and C) make adjustments.

Our coaching staff, on gameday, is easily the worst staff I've ever seen.

Maybe I was blessed with the Chiefs being good for my entire life...because they have been. They've always broken my heart when it matters...but for the most part, they've fielded good, competitive teams.

I was ok with rebuilding.

I was ok with it as long as it looked like there was a light at the end of the tunnel.

Watching this team, their philosophy, there is no light.

I've never jumped on the 'omg fire Herm, fire Carl' bandwagon...but please, just do it. I don't want to take a #1 QB and watch him bust...hire someone creative. SOMETHING. Change is good.

[Hootie]

That's speculation, not fact.

If you're claiming that LJ performed better with Jordan Black, there's your answer.

He's had the shit beaten out of him for the past 3+ years.

LJ made Jordan Black look good.

Not the other way around.

What did LJ do wrong today?

Honestly...

It's not like he was missing his holes...there were no holes. The Raiders had 9 in the box all game long...they were bringing it because they no we can't pass...the fact they ran for 300 yards on us when their QB was equally as bad as ours (hard to ****ing believe) is simply the most embarrassing moment of my life as a Chiefs fan.

Folks...

We're losing to the Oakland Raiders at Arrowhead Stadium.

This is insane

[FAX]

The Chiefs scored a touchdown today with a 7th round, waived draft choice who took only 50% of the snaps in practice this week. A guy who didn't play for USC or Miami or Ohio State or Florida. A guy who played for a 1-AA school who spent all of last year watching.

Doesn't THAT say SOMETHING?

It definitely does ... say something, that is. But what, exactly, Mr. DaneMcCloud? That's the question. It might say, for example, that the no-huddle/shotgun offense had the faiders in a different defense than they'd played previously. Then again, it might say that Thiggy was damn lucky he didn't get one of those previous wild rocks picked for six the other way. Or, it might say that the faiders remain one of the most consistent teams in the entire NFL when it comes to committing defensive penalties just when you need them most or that our offense is more effective when LJ is sitting his ass on the bench. Of course, it might also say that Thiggy is the man and Darling's 4th quarter catches are the answer to all our prayers.

I think, however, it actually says that even a blind acorn can fall right square into a deaf squirrel's mouth on occasion.

FAX

[DaneMcCloud]

Maybe I was blessed with the Chiefs being good for my entire life

When?

When the **** have the Chiefs won ANYTHING since 1971?

[Hootie]

When?

When the **** have the Chiefs won ANYTHING since 1971?

I'm young.

I started watching the Chiefs in the early 90's.

Since I've been a kid, they've won...they've choked, but they've won.

I've never seen anything like this before.

[DaneMcCloud]

I'm young.

I started watching the Chiefs in the early 90's.

Since I've been a kid, they've won...they've choked, but they've won.

I've never seen anything like this before.

No they didn't.

They won a few more games than they lost.

Vermeil went 6-10, 8-8, 13-3, 7-9 and 10-6 with ONE playoff appearance. How is that winning?

Goonther went 9-7 and 7-9 with NO playoff appearances.

How is that winning?

Marty was a reincarnation of Chuck Knox. Great regular season, couldn't coach against REAL talent in the playoffs.

So, when did the Chiefs actually WIN?

[Hootie]

No they didn't.

They won a few more games than they lost.

Vermeil went 6-10, 8-8, 13-3, 7-9 and 10-6 with ONE playoff appearance. How is that winning?

Goonther went 9-7 and 7-9 with NO playoff appearances.

How is that winning?

Marty was a reincarnation of Chuck Knox. Great regular season, couldn't coach against REAL talent in the playoffs.

So, when did the Chiefs actually WIN?

I'm sorry. You're right. Will you forgive me?

[DaneMcCloud]

I'm sorry. You're right. Will you forgive me?

There is no apology necessary.

[Mecca]

absolutely no comparison to the current coaching staff and the one before. you might disagree with how they were coaching the team and if they had the right formula to get us to the SB, but in terms of production and pure enjoyment DV is hands down the better HC.

We agree that CP and Herm have to go, but I would rather have a HC that is Offensive minded than Defensive minded.

I don't care what side of the ball the HC comes from aslong as he competent enough to understand talent, gameplans and doesn't handcuff either side of the ball.

There's a reason a guy like Bill Belicheck is successful, it's because frankly he coaches with common sense, he has a D background but when he has the best offense in the game he goes with that.

[Bwana]

Um, how many playoff wins did old Dick bring us? Under dick, we had the worst D in the NFL, under Herm, we have the worst O in the NFL and a very bad D. I will take a pass on both of them. Hunt could hire an average CP board member and get the same, or better results and save a few bucks. I'm surpirsed he hasn't thought of that.

[Baby Lee]

You know, all common sense aside, I don't see any redeeming attributes in a showing like we had today. Sure, a loss is a loss, but I'd rather see the Chiefs score more than one touchdown every couple of games or so. Frankly, if I had my 'druthers', I'd like to see the Chiefs return as a threat to score a touchdown everytime they had the ball on offense.

There's no shame in scoring, gentlemen. Did DV sell the soul of the franchise to build his offense? Sure. Did he struggle putting a competitive defense on the field? Absolutely. But which team is more fun to watch and capable of making it all the way? The one that could put 40 on you without breaking a sweat, or the one that can't convert a first down? The one that gave up 350 yards rushing, or the one that gave up 300?

In my heart, I know that the two goals of fielding a fearsome offense and a team that isn't populated with Methuselah's elder brothers aren't mutually exclusive. Alternatively, neither is the notion of a team comprised of young, ascending players and one that can move the chains more than 4 times in 60 minutes.

FAX
That's like asking which you'd rather watch, a shitty depressing indie film, or Dude Where's My Car.

You've pretty much settled on not watching any Oscar fare.

[OnTheWarpath15]

No, he didn't.

He was a stubborn old bastard that was forced to either take orders from John Shaw or be fired.

The same thing happened in KC with Larry Johnson; Peterson drafted him while Vermeil wanted Tyler Brayton (another ****ing Vermeil reach). The consequences were that LJ was in Vermeil's "doghouse" and called him out in front of the national media.

He's a grumpy old **** that should have never been hired. Additionally, he didn't do jackshit for the Chiefs.

Unless you consider completely ****ing up their roster for the better part of a decade a great thing.

Exactly, Dane.

I don't give a flying **** WHO was the official HC of that 99 Rams team - they were getting a ring. Christ, Herm Edwards would have won a ring with that group, because the HC was nothing but a front man. The coordinators and the FO pulled all the strings.

I love how people here justify Vermeil's existence because of a ring he won with another team - a team that he was told to to either STFD and STFU, or GTFO.

[Chiefnj2]

Yeah, LJ has so been so much better since they got the noose that was DV off his neck. Or something.

LJ has really matured since DV left and now has a "players coach" around him.

[Brock]

Not only am I glad DV left, I wish he had never been hired to begin with.

[Reerun_KC]

No they didn't.

They won a few more games than they lost.

Vermeil went 6-10, 8-8, 13-3, 7-9 and 10-6 with ONE playoff appearance. How is that winning?

Goonther went 9-7 and 7-9 with NO playoff appearances.

How is that winning?

Marty was a reincarnation of Chuck Knox. Great regular season, couldn't coach against REAL talent in the playoffs.

So, when did the Chiefs actually WIN?

K, so we have sucked for the last 20 years, BFD, the past is the past for a reason, you learn and move forward... Unless your Carl.

Herm has went 9-7, 4-12, (possibly) 4-12 or worse this year and I have doubts we win much next year as well so say 6-10 at best...

Where does that leave us? a below shit team with average talent for the next guy?

[morphius]

It was time for DV to leave when he left, and originally I figured it would also be Carl's last HC as well, so I figured it doubly good. I mean really, when you hire the person whom you consider the best HC in the league, and you are not able to get it done, it should be time for you to step down.

To make matters worse, he brought in Herm, the man who is known for killing QB and wearing down RB's, along with poor time management and inability to adjust for an opponent. Yeah, for us.

[Skip Towne]

I'm sorry.

FAX

:LOL:

[Fish]

I was ok with rebuilding.

I was ok with it as long as it looked like there was a light at the end of the tunnel.

Watching this team, their philosophy, there is no light.

I've never jumped on the 'omg fire Herm, fire Carl' bandwagon...but please, just do it. I don't want to take a #1 QB and watch him bust...hire someone creative. SOMETHING. Change is good.

ROFL

Perfect example of this fanbase right now.

OK with the rebuilding..... until game 2....

Yep... 2 games worth of patience, and now it's "fire everybody!"

[HemiEd]

Blah, blah blah. We can argue the DV versus Herm ****ing Edwards scenerio forever.

Bottom Line: DV football was very entertaining, this shit is not. Disgusting, just ****ing disgusting to watch.

[Reerun_KC]

ROFL

Perfect example of this fanbase right now.

OK with the rebuilding..... until game 2....

Yep... 2 games worth of patience, and now it's "fire everybody!"

Herm love you so much KC FISH....

[Reerun_KC]

ROFL

Perfect example of this fanbase right now.

OK with the rebuilding..... until game 2....

Yep... 2 games worth of patience, and now it's "fire everybody!"

Youth is good, losing is okay with me, but having a ****ing dillweed coach the team and puts an offensive game plan together like the one yesterday?

**** yeah you should fire that sum bitch...

Only problem we have now, is HERM IS NOT THE PERSON that should be allowed to rebuild this franchise... NOT NOW, NOT EVER!!

[Lzen]

Fish,
It wouldn't be so bad if this coaching staff didn't appear to be so clueless. I knew the rebuild would be tough, but man oh man did we look horrible yesterday.

Frankly, I liked DV but knew he was not the answer. He gave us a highly productive offense but could not get the right people in place to give us a respectable defense. I was somewhat disappointed when he retired, but at the same time excited to see some fresh new blood that could take the team to the next level.

Then they hired Herm. I was kind of luke warm on that hire. Optimistically, I was thinking he had taken the Jets to the playoffs a couple of times. On the flip side, I was thinking Herm has not been very good with the Jets lately. All the negative things people were saying about his clock management, hiring Hackett, injury issues. All of those things must have some truth to them. Sure enough, that is exactly what has been happening here. :banghead: We need fresh, new blood here, from CP all the way down to Herm and his staff.

[Lzen]

Youth is good, losing is okay with me, but having a ****ing dillweed coach the team and puts an offensive game plan together like the one yesterday?

**** yeah you should fire that sum bitch...

Only problem we have now, is HERM IS NOT THE PERSON that should be allowed to rebuild this franchise... NOT NOW, NOT EVER!!

Well, I don't know how much we can really knock the game plan. I'm not sure how much was Thigpen's complete inaccuracy and how much was poor game planning.

[Fish]

Youth is good, losing is okay with me, but having a ****ing dillweed coach the team and puts an offensive game plan together like the one yesterday?

**** yeah you should fire that sum bitch...

Only problem we have now, is HERM IS NOT THE PERSON that should be allowed to rebuild this franchise... NOT NOW, NOT EVER!!

Find someone better. A better option who would take over this team after 2 crappy games. And not **** up this team more than it is now. And I'll gladly consider it.

But you know what? It will never ever ever ****ing happen. No matter how much the fans yell and complain and start new threads. You don't fire a coach after 2 games when the season is going exactly as expected.

[FAX]

ROFL

Perfect example of this fanbase right now.

OK with the rebuilding..... until game 2....

Yep... 2 games worth of patience, and now it's "fire everybody!"

The problem is that some people (and I emphasize "some" while including myself in that number) are concerned that this may not really be an actual "rebuild" thing, Mr. KC Fish. It may be, unfortunately, just a bunch of young guys drafted by a dumbass coach who is teaching them how to lose and take a lot of ribbing for joining the worst team ever to play the game of football.

Perhaps it will all work out in the end and Herm can, in fact, turn this group into winners and dial up the gameday coaching to an highly competitive level. If not, however, all we can do is wait for the next HC and hope that the lasting damage caused by Herm is minimal. When you feel that way, watching a coaching effort like yesterday's is very flustrating and not a whole lot okay.

FAX

[Reerun_KC]

Find someone better. A better option who would take over this team after 2 crappy games. And not **** up this team more than it is now. And I'll gladly consider it.

But you know what? It will never ever ever ****ing happen. No matter how much the fans yell and complain and start new threads. You don't fire a coach after 2 games when the season is going exactly as expected.
Your right the season is going exactly as expected... after 3 years as the Chiefs HC, we have nothing that shows we have a compitent HC that can field a solid gameday game plan or shows that he can devleop young talent that he drafts..

So your right, this is exactly what we wanted and exactly what we expected on Sunday. Young players trying to play on a NFL level with a High School coach on the sidelines...

[keg in kc]

I love it when all the losers come out of the woodwork.

[Frazod]

Blah, blah blah. We can argue the DV versus Herm ****ing Edwards scenerio forever.

Bottom Line: DV football was very entertaining, this shit is not. Disgusting, just ****ing disgusting to watch.

DV - Fun, but ultimately heartbreaking.
HE - Completely lifecrushing, but hey, at least there'll be no big letdown at the end!

[Fish]

The problem is that some people (and I emphasize "some" while including myself in that number) are concerned that this may not really be an actual "rebuild" thing, Mr. KC Fish. It may be, unfortunately, just a bunch of young guys drafted by a dumbass coach who is teaching them how to lose and take a lot of ribbing for joining the worst team ever to play the game of football.

Perhaps it will all work out in the end and Herm can, in fact, turn this group into winners and dial up the gameday coaching to an highly competitive level. If not, however, all we can do is wait for the next HC and hope that the lasting damage caused by Herm is minimal. When you feel that way, watching a coaching effort like yesterday's is very flustrating and not a whole lot okay.

FAX

I realize what you're saying. And I agree in part. I'm not at all happy with the way they've done it. It's hard to see the bigger picture when you have yesterday's glaring greasy anus of a game blocking out all sunlight.

[Reerun_KC]

DV - Fun, but ultimately heartbreaking.
HE - Completely lifecrushing, but hey, at least there'll be no big letdown at the end!
:thumb:

[Reerun_KC]

I realize what you're saying. And I agree in part. I'm not at all happy with the way they've done it. It's hard to see the bigger picture when you have yesterday's glaring greasy anus of a game blocking out all sunlight.
I respect your opnion on this issue, and alot of us can see the bigger picture... Problem is Herm isnt part of the picture and is stunting the growth of the team...

Hell the dude has injured more QB's in the league with HIS offense, than Rodney Harrison or Bill Romonowski....

[Nzoner]

Perhaps it will all work out in the end and Herm can, in fact, turn this group into winners


and perhaps I'll discover the fountain of youth and get to enjoy my 20's again :D

[DTLB58]

Yes I was.

Because I was hoping for a complete coach. You know one that coaches all 3 phases of the game.

It looks as if Herm and company dosen't have a clue. But you can't tell me Dick was the answer if the goal is post season success and ultimately reaching the SB.

[Frazod]

I would also add that, given the talent he was given to work with, Vermeil's epic failure was, is, and will continue to be inexcusable. With even a hint of a defense we win at least one Super Bowl.

[chiefsfan1963]

You know, all common sense aside, I don't see any redeeming attributes in a showing like we had today. Sure, a loss is a loss, but I'd rather see the Chiefs score more than one touchdown every couple of games or so. Frankly, if I had my 'druthers', I'd like to see the Chiefs return as a threat to score a touchdown everytime they had the ball on offense.

There's no shame in scoring, gentlemen. Did DV sell the soul of the franchise to build his offense? Sure. Did he struggle putting a competitive defense on the field? Absolutely. But which team is more fun to watch and capable of making it all the way? The one that could put 40 on you without breaking a sweat, or the one that can't convert a first down? The one that gave up 350 yards rushing, or the one that gave up 300?

In my heart, I know that the two goals of fielding a fearsome offense and a team that isn't populated with Methuselah's elder brothers aren't mutually exclusive. Alternatively, neither is the notion of a team comprised of young, ascending players and one that can move the chains more than 4 times in 60 minutes.

FAX


My exactly!!!!!!! :clap::clap::clap:

[chiefsfan1963]

maybe because...despite the fact DV had horrible drafts...he still knew how to A) gameplan, B) run an offense, and C) make adjustments.

Our coaching staff, on gameday, is easily the worst staff I've ever seen.

Maybe I was blessed with the Chiefs being good for my entire life...because they have been. They've always broken my heart when it matters...but for the most part, they've fielded good, competitive teams.

I was ok with rebuilding.

I was ok with it as long as it looked like there was a light at the end of the tunnel.

Watching this team, their philosophy, there is no light.

I've never jumped on the 'omg fire Herm, fire Carl' bandwagon...but please, just do it. I don't want to take a #1 QB and watch him bust...hire someone creative. SOMETHING. Change is good.


:clap::clap::clap::clap:

[HC_Chief]

DV - Fun, but ultimately heartbreaking.
HE - Completely lifecrushing, but hey, at least there'll be no big letdown at the end!

DV was all about proving himself to be the architect of that StL SB team, and not Martz. He & Saunders came in wanting to prove themselves as the offensive geniouses[sic]. Sure, they set a shitload of records, but ultimately did not win a damned thing. Not ONE playoff win?! With all of that firepower? Total blueballs. And, on top of that, left an ancient run-down team for the next poor bastard to clean up. The drafting by DV & company = legendary for its incompetence.

Herm is a $*&^%ing joke. Kind of like Gunther and Solari - everyone knows it's going to be an absolute train wreck.

[chiefsfan1963]

Fish,
It wouldn't be so bad if this coaching staff didn't appear to be so clueless. I knew the rebuild would be tough, but man oh man did we look horrible yesterday.

Frankly, I liked DV but knew he was not the answer. He gave us a highly productive offense but could not get the right people in place to give us a respectable defense. I was somewhat disappointed when he retired, but at the same time excited to see some fresh new blood that could take the team to the next level.

Then they hired Herm. I was kind of luke warm on that hire. Optimistically, I was thinking he had taken the Jets to the playoffs a couple of times. On the flip side, I was thinking Herm has not been very good with the Jets lately. All the negative things people were saying about his clock management, hiring Hackett, injury issues. All of those things must have some truth to them. Sure enough, that is exactly what has been happening here. :banghead: We need fresh, new blood here, from CP all the way down to Herm and his staff.

:clap::clap::clap:

[FAX]

Your right the season is going exactly as expected... after 3 years as the Chiefs HC, we have nothing that shows we have a compitent HC that can field a solid gameday game plan or shows that he can devleop young talent that he drafts..

So your right, this is exactly what we wanted and exactly what we expected on Sunday. Young players trying to play on a NFL level with a High School coach on the sidelines...

The first two years were kind of weird, though, Mr. Reerun_KC. You know, Herm trying to cobble together a squad out of DV's leftovers, some FA guys, and a couple of rookies. I'm trying to base my dislike of Herm solely on the results of "The Plan". What we're seeing now is 100% Herm and Herm alone.

I'm still trying to figure out why he hired Gailey, for example. If part of "The Plan" was to dumb down the offense to the point that the enemy D can anticipate every play we run, I don't see the need for a guy like that. Solari was doing fine in that respect. So far as Gun is concerned, we all know that Gun will do what he's told so I can see why he's still around. Clearly, our new defense is an all Herm deal, too. As for special teams, honestly, that looks like a situation that Herm has, basically, just ignored so far. Time will tell, but to date, Herm is living up to the reputation described to us by the Jets fans. If that's the case, there will be plenty of reasons to despise the guy, but it won't have to be because he walked into DV's mess.

FAX

[FAX]

DV was all about proving himself to be the architect of that StL SB team, and not Martz. He & Saunders came in wanting to prove themselves as the offensive geniouses[sic]. Sure, they set a shitload of records, but ultimately did not win a damned thing. Not ONE playoff win?! With all of that firepower? Total blueballs. And, on top of that, left an ancient run-down team for the next poor bastard to clean up. The drafting by DV & company = legendary for its incompetence.

Herm is a $*&^%ing joke. Kind of like Gunther and Solari - everyone knows it's going to be an absolute train wreck.

ROFL

FAX

[chiefsfan1963]

Look with a better GM to support him DV could have succeeded here. No one can take anything away from him as far as offense. We have never seen a better one in over 40 years. The problem was D and I don't think he was far off to improving it enough to get the Chiefs over the hump. This is a team sport all the way from the Front Office through the Coaching Staff and the players. they all have to work together to make it work.

The problem with rebuilding is you have to have a fabulous Front Office and Coaching staff for it to be effective. We don't and so all this rebuilding is being done in vain.

Hopefully Clark will realize this and stop the bus and let out the entire FO and CS on the curb sooner rather than later.

This season is over! We are already guaranteed a Top 3 draft choice next year. This in itself tells you who was a better HC and was much better to succeed here. No one at this time of the season had already thrown in the towel when DV was the HC.

[FAX]

I realize what you're saying. And I agree in part. I'm not at all happy with the way they've done it. It's hard to see the bigger picture when you have yesterday's glaring greasy anus of a game blocking out all sunlight.

ROFL

That's certain, Mr. KC Fish.

For my part, I can only base my opinions on what I see (or what Lenny tells me). And, I'm not seeing much in this fabulous, new, simplified offense that infuses my weary soul with hope that Herm knows what the hell he's doing.

The board has argued this whole "execution" vs. "predictability" question into the ground. People can say what they will, but I still fail to understand any rationale that has been stated so far that justifies what appears to be our current approach to gameplanning and playcalling. To me, it looks like it's hampering our players - not helping them. Plus (and setting aside the injury portion of the question and focusing solely on the insult for a moment), the idea that our players can't execute a simple running play seems absurd. It's executing the same running play over and over that's difficult - not because they can't do it - but because the enemy knows full well that it's coming.

So, big picture-wise, is this approach to offense going to develop our young players faster in the long run? I have no idea because I can't see the future. But, from where I sit, right now I'd have to say, "no".

FAX

[mrbiggz]

the thing about Dick Vermiel is WE HAD A CHANCE TO WIN on any given Sunday. Now we have neither offense or defense to hang our hat on. You have to score points to win the game and we can't score any. simple as that.

[Brock]

the thing about Dick Vermiel is WE HAD A CHANCE TO WIN on any given Sunday. Now we have neither offense or defense to hang our hat on. You have to score points to win the game and we can't score any. simple as that.


The end result was the same. simple as that.

[Micjones]

We were an unbalanced team under Vermeil, but we were easily a better football team.
No question about it.

[Thig Lyfe]

WE HAD A CHANCE TO WIN on any given Sunday.
So does every other team.

A chance to win ≠ a win

[DaneMcCloud]

Look with a better GM to support him DV could have succeeded here.

No. You clearly don't get it.

Peterson did EVERYTHING that Vermeil wanted. Trade for Trent Green. Trade for Willie Roaf. Draft defensive tackles with every high pick. Brought in veteran receivers, running backs, linebackers, cornerbacks and quarterbacks.

The only thing that Peterson didn't do for Vermeil was draft Tyler Brayton.

Peterson chose LJ and we're all too familiar with Vermeil's treatment of LJ, which IMO, was downright embarrassing.

The reason that Vermeil "succeeded" in St. Louis is because John Shaw FORCED Trent Green, Marshall Faulk and especially Mike Martz onto the sqaud. Drafting Tory Holt didn't hurt either. Oh yeah, and a guy named Kurt Warner.

This season is over! We are already guaranteed a Top 3 draft choice next year. This in itself tells you who was a better HC and was much better to succeed here. No one at this time of the season had already thrown in the towel when DV was the HC.

The Chiefs were guaranteed a top three pick before the season started. There is not a legitimate, young starting right guard or right tackle. The linebacker situation is in disarray. Defensive end was a huge question mark with the departure of Jared Allen. There's only ONE proven WR on the entire squad and as many of us surmised, there's no franchise QB on the roster.

This team was destined to be 3-13 at best on July 27th.

[mrbiggz]

The end result was the same. simple as that.

You can keep Herm then. Atleast we had some hope

[DaneMcCloud]

You can keep Herm then. Atleast we had some hope

Hope.

How lame.

[FAX]

We could also use a little more "umph" in the DB category, Mr. DaneMcCloud. We're almost there, but not quite.

But, we're damn deep at RB.

FAX

[jidar]

Vermeil was better. period.

[ChiefsCountry]

End result for the two was the same.

0-1
0-1

That is all that matters. The offensive records were a smoke and mirror.

[mrbiggz]

How lame.[/QUOTE]

You can keep Herm too

[blueballs]

DV delegated
HE overlords
result about the same

[Reerun_KC]

I will never forget how people lined up like lemmings to defend Herm when he arrived. They were so excited that they had a Defensive minded HC and a draft day genius...

Now those same people are saying the same shit everyone said about Herm....

This board needs renamed from the DraftPlanet to John Kerry's Flip Flops!

[FAX]

Yeah, but DV got us on the cover of magazines and evahthang. We coulda' been a contendah.

Anyways, the truth is that, from an assistant coach's perspective, Herm is tons better. I mean, would you rather be under Herm or under Dick? It's a no-brainer, gentlemen.

FAX

[FAX]

I will never forget how people lined up like lemmings to defend Herm when he arrived. They were so excited that they had a Defensive minded HC and a draft day genius...

Now those same people are saying the same shit everyone said about Herm....

This board needs renamed from the DraftPlanet to John Kerry's Flip Flops!

I'll admit that I've flipflopped on Herm multiple times. Let's see ...

1. When he arrived ... Pro-Herm.
2. When he lied about leaving the offense alone ... Anti-Herm.
3. When he improved the D ... Pro-Herm.
4. When he blamed the O for the Cleveland fiasco ... Anti-Herm.
5. When he wanted Croyle to start over Downfield ... Pro-Herm.
6. When he started Downfield ... Anti-Herm.
7. When he came up with "The Plan" ... Pro-Herm.
8. When he demonstrated "The Plan" in action ... Anti-Herm.

And that's where I stand today.

FAX

[chiefsfan1963]

the thing about Dick Vermiel is WE HAD A CHANCE TO WIN on any given Sunday. Now we have neither offense or defense to hang our hat on. You have to score points to win the game and we can't score any. simple as that.

:clap::clap::clap:

[chiefsfan1963]

Look with a better GM to support him DV could have succeeded here. No one can take anything away from him as far as offense. We have never seen a better one in over 40 years. The problem was D and I don't think he was far off to improving it enough to get the Chiefs over the hump. This is a team sport all the way from the Front Office through the Coaching Staff and the players. they all have to work together to make it work.

The problem with rebuilding is you have to have a fabulous Front Office and Coaching staff for it to be effective. We don't and so all this rebuilding is being done in vain.

Hopefully Clark will realize this and stop the bus and let out the entire FO and CS on the curb sooner rather than later.

This season is over! We are already guaranteed a Top 3 draft choice next year. This in itself tells you who was a better HC and was much better to succeed here. No one at this time of the season had already thrown in the towel when DV was the HC.

Any one want to challenge this? :)

[DaneMcCloud]

Any one want to challenge this? :)

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5021751&postcount=90

I already knocked it out of the park

[Reerun_KC]

I'll admit that I've flipflopped on Herm multiple times. Let's see ...

1. When he arrived ... Pro-Herm.
2. When he lied about leaving the offense alone ... Anti-Herm.
3. When he improved the D ... Pro-Herm.
4. When he blamed the O for the Cleveland fiasco ... Anti-Herm.
5. When he wanted Croyle to start over Downfield ... Pro-Herm.
6. When he started Downfield ... Anti-Herm.
7. When he came up with "The Plan" ... Pro-Herm.
8. When he demonstrated "The Plan" in action ... Anti-Herm.

And that's where I stand today.

FAX

Chiefsplanet's new logo...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2332/2213271699_553c519e45.jpg?v=0


yes there are flip flops in that picture!

[chiefsfan1963]

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5021751&postcount=90

I already knocked it out of the park

no you didn't. :shake:

[Reerun_KC]

End result for the two was the same.

0-1
0-1

That is all that matters. The offensive records were a smoke and mirror.
Yeah well..

Take this...

Marty 3-9 (thank you Joe, otherwise Marty would be 1-9)

Gunther 0-0

Defensive records in the 90's were nothing more than smoke and mirrors.

[ChiefsCountry]

no you didn't. :shake:

Your a ******ing idiot. Vermeil was a great motivator but he wasnt this Vince Lombardi/Bill Walsh/Chuck Noll you make him out to be. Just shut the ****** up about him already. Its over - the Chiefs blow balls now mainly bc Vermeil didnt have the foresight to bring in young players in. Now Herm is a horrible, horrible game day coach. Nobody will argue about that. But he is building a Super Bowl championship type team. Now he wont coach it but the building blocks are there. Now quit bringing this attention type whore threads out about your man love about a coach who was more flash than anything.

[ChiefsCountry]

Defensive records in the 90's were nothing more than smoke and mirrors.

I agree as well.

[Reerun_KC]

I agree as well.
:doh!:Well I got nothing now...

Carl and DV took the team on a 3-4 year run... Period. They both had zero regard for the future...

Herm reaped the benefits of his first year with a playoff appearance joke, Then Herm and Carl tried to get people ot buy into the playoffs last year. When everyone knew it was a ****ing joke..

Herm wasted 2 years of this rebuild already... he has done nothing to earn anymore years from KC after this... Once he saw he couldnt ride the talent of the previous coach any longer (just like NYJ) his records have went to shit in a handbasket!

[chiefsfan1963]

Your a ******ing idiot. Vermeil was a great motivator but he wasnt this Vince Lombardi/Bill Walsh/Chuck Noll you make him out to be. Just shut the ****** up about him already. Its over - the Chiefs blow balls now mainly bc Vermeil didnt have the foresight to bring in young players in. Now Herm is a horrible, horrible game day coach. Nobody will argue about that. But he is building a Super Bowl championship type team. Now he wont coach it but the building blocks are there. Now quit bringing this attention type whore threads out about your man love about a coach who was more flash than anything.

Oh it's DV's fault that we suck right now. Got it. Yeah.

[Brock]

Oh it's DV's fault that we suck right now. Got it. Yeah.

It is partially his fault. Only a complete moron wouldn't recognize that.

[chiefsfan1963]

Your a ******ing idiot. Vermeil was a great motivator but he wasnt this Vince Lombardi/Bill Walsh/Chuck Noll you make him out to be. Just shut the ****** up about him already. Its over - the Chiefs blow balls now mainly bc Vermeil didnt have the foresight to bring in young players in. Now Herm is a horrible, horrible game day coach. Nobody will argue about that. But he is building a Super Bowl championship type team. Now he wont coach it but the building blocks are there. Now quit bringing this attention type whore threads out about your man love about a coach who was more flash than anything.

The building blocks are not there at all!

[ChiefsCountry]

The building blocks are not there at all!

You are so dense.

Dorsey
DJ
Tank
Bowe
Albert
Flowers
Charles
Hali
Page
Pollard

Thats the start. That is some young talent with two to four that have major superstar potential.

[DaneMcCloud]

no you didn't. :shake:

You're a clueless moron.

Dispute it then.

[DaneMcCloud]

You are so dense.

Dorsey
DJ
Tank
Bowe
Albert
Flowers
Charles
Hali
Page
Pollard

Thats the start. That is some young talent with two to four that have major superstar potential.

And if the Chiefs had drafted HALF as well under Vermeil, we'd have several players in the prime of their careers.

[Reerun_KC]

And if the Chiefs had drafted HALF as well under Vermeil, we'd have several players in the prime of their careers.
Okay, so when do we stop blaming Marty, Gunther and DV, and actually hold Herm acccountable?

Just wondering? Is there some time limit? 3 years? 5 years? 10 years?

Just wondering?

[Brock]

Okay, so when do we stop blaming Marty, Gunther and DV, and actually hold Herm acccountable?

Just wondering? Is there some time limit? 3 years? 5 years? 10 years?

Just wondering?

He is being held accountable. Everyone here acknowledges his failings. What do you suggest "we" do about it? "We're" already not going to the stadium.

Some of you people just can't seem to grasp how 5 years of horrible, just horrible drafts affect a team's future.

[ChiefsCountry]

Okay, so when do we stop blaming Marty, Gunther and DV, and actually hold Herm acccountable?

Just wondering? Is there some time limit? 3 years? 5 years? 10 years?

Just wondering?

He is on his own for game day mistakes but personal wise, next year. Which should end the Herm Edwards era more than likely.

[keg in kc]

Okay, so when do we stop blaming Marty, Gunther and DV, and actually hold Herm acccountable?

Just wondering? Is there some time limit? 3 years? 5 years? 10 years?He started building his team last year, so I'd say 3 years from that point, meaning the end of 2009.

Carl should be gone already.

[DaneMcCloud]

Okay, so when do we stop blaming Marty, Gunther and DV, and actually hold Herm acccountable?

Just wondering? Is there some time limit? 3 years? 5 years? 10 years?

Just wondering?

I'll hold him accountable in 2010.

I'd like someone tell explain to me, in detail, how exactly the Chiefs are to succeed with a right guard and right tackle who wouldn't be starting for any other team in the NFL (and probably not even be able to make a roster), 1 WR, not even an average QB (let alone franchise), and two linebackers that shouldn't be on the field.

Please explain.

PLEASE.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I'll hold him accountable in 2010.

I'd like someone tell explain to me, in detail, how exactly the Chiefs are to succeed with a right guard and right tackle who wouldn't be starting for any other team in the NFL (and probably not even be able to make a roster), 1 WR, not even an average QB (let alone franchise), and two linebackers that shouldn't be on the field.

Please explain.

PLEASE.

Uh...

FIRE HERM AND CARL!

AMERICA1!!11! **** YEAH!!111!1ONE1

[FAX]

Our drafts were the ultimate suck well before DV came to town. Some time back, there was a giant flurry of analysis on the Planet that lasted about a week or so on this very subject. It was completely obvious that, under Carl, the Chiefs have one of the worst (if not the worst) draft record in the league based on how many players actually made football a career (either with the Chiefs or with someone else).

The fact is that the draft where we picked DT was arguably the last really decent draft we had until DV got here and we picked up guys like Allen (a fluke) and LJ and DJ. When you look at it that way, DV's drafts were an enormous improvement. They still sucked, but they were much, much better than we'd had for practically 20 years.

FAX

[Reerun_KC]

He is being held accountable. Everyone here acknowledges his failings. What do you suggest "we" do about it? "We're" already not going to the stadium.

Some of you people just can't seem to grasp how 5 years of horrible, just horrible drafts affect a team's future.
Not going to argue about DV, dude has been gone for 3 years now, and yes Carl and DV's win a superbowl now philosophy didnt help much.

But there are things called FA and the Draft.. it seems to me if you want to rebuild it takes the right mix of both to build a solid club...

Herm has had 3 years now and we have some marginal talent, a few good players and one great that herm has drafted, But he has failed to address this OL in 3 years, Now how is that still DV's fault? Remember FA and Draft....

[OnTheWarpath15]

He is being held accountable. Everyone here acknowledges his failings. What do you suggest "we" do about it? "We're" already not going to the stadium.

Some of you people just can't seem to grasp how 5 years of horrible, just horrible drafts affect a team's future.

Have I mentioned how glad I am that you've decided to return from hiatus?

This place was/is in desperate need of people who get it.

If we could get Parker to come back, and JSP to post more...

[Reerun_KC]

I'll hold him accountable in 2010.

I'd like someone tell explain to me, in detail, how exactly the Chiefs are to succeed with a right guard and right tackle who wouldn't be starting for any other team in the NFL (and probably not even be able to make a roster), 1 WR, not even an average QB (let alone franchise), and two linebackers that shouldn't be on the field.

Please explain.

PLEASE.
Okay, explain to me why Herm hasnt fixed those issues? he is the Head Coach right?

Whos fault that they are on the field?

[dirk digler]

I'll hold him accountable in 2010.

I'd like someone tell explain to me, in detail, how exactly the Chiefs are to succeed with a right guard and right tackle who wouldn't be starting for any other team in the NFL (and probably not even be able to make a roster), 1 WR, not even an average QB (let alone franchise), and two linebackers that shouldn't be on the field.

Please explain.

PLEASE.

Seriously Dane? 2010? **** that. If by Week 6 we don't have a win he should be canned.

[keg in kc]

I'll hold him accountable in 2010.

I'd like someone tell explain to me, in detail, how exactly the Chiefs are to succeed with a right guard and right tackle who wouldn't be starting for any other team in the NFL (and probably not even be able to make a roster), 1 WR, not even an average QB (let alone franchise), and two linebackers that shouldn't be on the field.

Please explain.

PLEASE.Fanbase can't decide what they want. Trade away all your picks and spend all your cap dollars on vets on the downslope and we bitch. Blow up the team and try to rebuild with young players and we bitch. I mean, we're two freaking weeks into the first admitted rebuild in any of our memories and we want to fire the coach.

We just want everything fixed *right now*, that's all. Just win, baby. Make that decade of bad drafts and utter lack of a core of players go away in one offseason.

In other words, there's no solution.

[FAX]

Have I mentioned how glad I am that you've decided to return from hiatus?

This place was/is in desperate need of people who get it.

If we could get Parker to come back, and JSP to post more...

I couldn't agree more with this post. So I won't try.

FAX

[Brock]

Herm has had 3 years now and we have some marginal talent, a few good players and one great that herm has drafted, But he has failed to address this OL in 3 years, Now how is that still DV's fault? Remember FA and Draft....

He hasn't failed to address this OL in 3 years, unless you just simply haven't been paying attention.

[dirk digler]

Fanbase can't decide what they want. Trade away all your picks and spend all your cap dollars on vets on the downslope and we bitch. Blow up the team and try to rebuild with young players and we bitch. I mean, we're two freaking weeks into the first admitted rebuild in any of our memories and we want to fire the coach.

We just want everything fixed *right now*, that's all. Just win, baby. Make that decade of bad drafts and utter lack of a core of players go away in one offseason.

In other words, there's no solution.

I don't think it has anything to do with rebuilding it has everything to do with the coaching staff, mainly the head coach that is an inept POS. We have lost 11 ****ing straight games so I don't understand how the head coach gets a pass for that.

[ChiefsCountry]

Our drafts were the ultimate suck well before DV came to town. Some time back, there was a giant flurry of analysis on the Planet that lasted about a week or so on this very subject. It was completely obvious that, under Carl, the Chiefs have one of the worst (if not the worst) draft record in the league based on how many players actually made football a career (either with the Chiefs or with someone else).

The fact is that the draft where we picked DT was arguably the last really decent draft we had until DV got here and we picked up guys like Allen (a fluke) and LJ and DJ. When you look at it that way, DV's drafts were an enormous improvement. They still sucked, but they were much, much better than we'd had for practically 20 years.

FAX

Chiefs had a few good drafts in the 90's. 1996 was pretty good - it could have been better (Dawkins and Milloy instead of Woods and Tongue) but it turned out pretty well. We never had a major coup but we got talent out of the 1992 through 1994 drafts.

[Reerun_KC]

Fanbase can't decide what they want. Trade away all your picks and spend all your cap dollars on vets on the downslope and we bitch. Blow up the team and try to rebuild with young players and we bitch. I mean, we're two freaking weeks into the first admitted rebuild in any of our memories and we want to fire the coach.

We just want everything fixed *right now*, that's all. Just win, baby.

In other words, there's no solution.


WTF was that?

No I want the coach fired because after two OC's and its still the same shit on offense.

What people are failing to understand, its not the youth, the mistakes, the errors, ITS THE ****ING LACK OF COACHING THEY ARE RECIEVING ON PRACTICE and GAMEDAY!

Its not the rebuilding we are bitching about... Damn people pay attention!

[beach tribe]

Not defending him, just wondering. Did we ever get ripped for 300 on the ground in the DV era?

BTW DVs mistake was trusting others to fix the D. He knew he didn't know shit about it so he left it alone. Exactly what everyone wants Herm to do with the offense.

[dirk digler]

WTF was that?

No I want the coach fired because after two OC's and its still the same shit on offense.

What people are failing to understand, its not the youth, the mistakes, the errors, ITS THE ****ING LACK OF COACHING THEY ARE RECIEVING ON PRACTICE GAMEDAY!

Yep exactly. It is the head coach's job to put the team in the best position to win and Herm has failed 11 straight games. You can't get more inept than that.

[CoMoChief]

As bad as the defense was....it was getting better.

One thing that was for certain. With DV, I always knew we had a good chance in winning the game.

With Herm, I feel we need a football miracle just to even score during the game.

[DaneMcCloud]

Okay, explain to me why Herm hasnt fixed those issues? he is the Head Coach right?

Because an entire roster cannot be turned over in one off-season. The Chiefs are no longer going for the patented Carl Peterson "quick fix" through free-agency. They are building from the ground up and I fully expect a right guard, right tackle, a WR and a LB to be chosen in 2009.

McInSuck was a CP pickup. Nice job. :shake:

Whos fault that they are on the field?

See above

[CoMoChief]

Not defending him, just wondering. Did we ever get ripped for 300 on the ground in the DV era?

BTW DVs mistake was trusting others to fix the D. He knew he didn't know shit about it so he left it alone. Exactly what everyone wants Herm to do with the offense.

I dunno about 300. But Denver and Portis raped us big time multiple times in the running game. As did Tiki Barber and the Giants.

[Fish]

Fanbase can't decide what they want. Trade away all your picks and spend all your cap dollars on vets on the downslope and we bitch. Blow up the team and try to rebuild with young players and we bitch. I mean, we're two freaking weeks into the first admitted rebuild in any of our memories and we want to fire the coach.

We just want everything fixed *right now*, that's all. Just win, baby. Make that decade of bad drafts and utter lack of a core of players go away in one offseason.

In other words, there's no solution.

:clap::clap::clap:

QFT

[DaneMcCloud]

I don't think it has anything to do with rebuilding it has everything to do with the coaching staff, mainly the head coach that is an inept POS. We have lost 11 ****ing straight games so I don't understand how the head coach gets a pass for that.

I'd like you to explain how any other coach in the league could have won either game with the current personnel.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Fanbase can't decide what they want. Trade away all your picks and spend all your cap dollars on vets on the downslope and we bitch. Blow up the team and try to rebuild with young players and we bitch. I mean, we're two freaking weeks into the first admitted rebuild in any of our memories and we want to fire the coach.

We just want everything fixed *right now*, that's all. Just win, baby. Make that decade of bad drafts and utter lack of a core of players go away in one offseason.

In other words, there's no solution.

Rep.

[Chiefnj2]

I love the Herm followers passing everything off on Carl. Any bad free agent acquisition = Carl. Like Herm had nothing to do with any of them. All those old ineffective Jets, yeah they were all Carls idea. Nap Harris and his cover 2 experience, all Peterson.

[Reerun_KC]

Because an entire roster cannot be turned over in one off-season. The Chiefs are no longer going for the patented Carl Peterson "quick fix" through free-agency. They are building from the ground up and I fully expect a right guard, right tackle, a WR and a LB to be chosen in 2009.

McInSuck was a CP pickup. Nice job. :shake:



See above
As far as I remember, Herm has been here 3 ****ING years... So why not start addressing these issues 3 years ago? IF Herm is suck a great coach and has the right vision for the future, then he would of started 3 years ago... Not when the team that he inherted broke down and he had no choice but to "claim rebuild" , fire solari to save his ass.

[keg in kc]

To me, the week 1 offense was them playing the way they thought they had to play to win the game. And it almost worked, like it or not.

'course, they lost Croyle during that game, and then Huard early yesterday. I'm sorry Air Thigpen wasn't aggessive enough or impressive enough for you. I mean, the 3rd team QB with no NFL experience really out to be out there chucking it around the field. Pussies!

[MOhillbilly]

Not defending him, just wondering. Did we ever get ripped for 300 on the ground in the DV era?

BTW DVs mistake was trusting others to fix the D. He knew he didn't know shit about it so he left it alone. Exactly what everyone wants Herm to do with the offense.


to say that those things about DV is a copout. he knew, he was a freaking nfl head coach for christ sakes.
that bullshit standing pat after the 03 season wasnt a knee jerk reaction,it was acouple cocksure mofos who saw it work in stl. and said f-it.

[Reerun_KC]

I'd like you to explain how any other coach in the league could have won either game with the current personnel.
Wait on minute...

Isnt these players mostly Herms? Now he cant win with current personnel?

WTF?

[keg in kc]

I'd like you to explain how any other coach in the league could have won either game with the current personnel.Voodoo, maybe?

[dirk digler]

I'd like you to explain how any other coach in the league could have won either game with the current personnel.

I don't think many or any head coaches would have Brodie Croyle, Damon Huard, and Tyler Thigpen as their QB's.

If we had a competent QB we would be 2-0 instead of 0-2

It is not just Herm's fault it is Carl's and the front offices fault. They don't know how to develop players especially at the QB position.

[FAX]

I'll hold him accountable in 2010.

I'd like someone tell explain to me, in detail, how exactly the Chiefs are to succeed with a right guard and right tackle who wouldn't be starting for any other team in the NFL (and probably not even be able to make a roster), 1 WR, not even an average QB (let alone franchise), and two linebackers that shouldn't be on the field.

Please explain.

PLEASE.

I'm going to try and speak for those who have no speak.

I don't think peeps want Herm gone because they necessarily expect him to win without those players, Mr. DaneMcCloud. Clearly, the team is missing key talent in critically important positions. Rather, they want him gone because he is a complete idiot and really isn't doing the good players we already have any special favors by running an offense that will get its ass kicked every Sunday - not necessarily due to lack of talent - but because the playcalling is completely stupid and the enemy knows what we're going to run before we run it because the guys in the booth calling the game know what we're going to run before we run it because the 9 year-old kid who just wet his pants because he drank too much coke and forgot knows what we're going to run before we run it.

As for me, I think Herm should stay another year and handle the next draft for us. I think he's on a roll in that department and I wouldn't shoot that horse just yet. In 2010, however, I'd consider bringing in someone who is a more strategic thinker, can compete with the best in the league in terms of game day tactics, and knows how to bring offensive, defensive, and special teams balance to a franchise. That's what I'd friggin' do if I were king of the friggin' forest.

FAX

[Reerun_KC]

To me, the week 1 offense was them playing the way they thought they had to play to win the game. And it almost worked, like it or not.

'course, they lost Croyle during that game, and then Huard early yesterday. I'm sorry Air Thigpen wasn't aggessive enough or impressive enough for you. I mean, the 3rd team QB with no NFL experience really out to be out there chucking it around the field. Pussies!

:spock:

You sure?

[beach tribe]

I don't think many or any head coaches would have Brodie Croyle, Damon Huard, and Tyler Thigpen as their QB's.

If we had a competent QB we would be 2-0 instead of 0-2

It is not just Herm's fault it is Carl's and the front offices fault. They don't know how to develop players especially at the QB position.

I'm sorry, but QBs don't win shit when their D gives up 300 on the ground.

[Reerun_KC]

I'm going to try and speak for those who have no speak.

I don't think peeps want Herm gone because they necessarily expect him to win without those players, Mr. DaneMcCloud. Clearly, the team is missing key talent in critically important positions. Rather, they want him gone because he is a complete idiot and really isn't doing the good players we already have any special favors by running an offense that will get its ass kicked every Sunday - not necessarily due to lack of talent - but because the playcalling is completely stupid and the enemy knows what we're going to run before we run it because the guys in the booth calling the game know what we're going to run before we run it because the 9 year-old kid who just wet his pants because he drank too much coke and forgot knows what we're going to run before we run it.

As for me, I think Herm should stay another year and handle the next draft for us. I think he's on a roll in that department and I wouldn't shoot that horse just yet. In 2010, however, I'd consider bringing in someone who is a more strategic thinker, can compete with the best in the league in terms of game day tactics, and knows how to bring offensive, defensive, and special teams balance to a franchise. That's what I'd friggin' do if I were king of the friggin' forest.

FAX

Rep.


Like I have tried to explain to others. Its not the youth and losing we are upset with.

Its Herm's lack of leadership and coaching, which is very evident on game days...

[DaneMcCloud]

As far as I remember, Herm has been here 3 ****ING years... So why not start addressing these issues 3 years ago? IF Herm is suck a great coach and has the right vision for the future, then he would of started 3 years ago... Not when the team that he inherted broke down and he had no choice but to "claim rebuild" , fire solari to save his ass.

When did you start following the Chiefs? This year? Seriously.

2006: Carl Peterson insisted that Herm pick up where DV left off. No Trent Green. No Willie Roaf. Forced Mike Solari on him. 9-7 and a playoff loss.

2007: Carl Peterson insisted on staying the course. Brought in D-Mac in place of Roaf. Made Damon Huard the starter. He even admitted that he thought that the old guys had "one more year". ****ing idiot.

2008: Herm goes to Clark Hunt asking for a total rebuild. Hunt complies and Peterson's power has been reduced. Rebuilding begins. Best Possible Athlete chosen at each and every draft position. Expect no more than 3 total wins in 2008.

[FAX]

As far as I remember, Herm has been here 3 ****ING years... So why not start addressing these issues 3 years ago? IF Herm is suck a great coach and has the right vision for the future, then he would of started 3 years ago... Not when the team that he inherted broke down and he had no choice but to "claim rebuild" , fire solari to save his ass.

The first year, he was a new hire and Carl was driving the doom train at the time, Mr. Reerun_KC. Carl thought they could make a run for the playoffs with DV's remains, some FA guys, and a couple of rooks. Herm didn't know any better and, in retrospect, it was stupid.

Even stupider was the next year when we tried to field an o-line with glue on the hoof that should have been shot in the head sometime during the off-season. Now, that was really, really stupid.

Nevertheless, "The Plan" is in full effect now. We're more talented than we've been in most positions than we've been for several years - except for OC.

FAX

[dirk digler]

I'm sorry, but QBs don't win shit when their D gives up 300 on the ground.

I disagree partly because if the offense always has 3 and outs then the D is on the field the whole game and will eventually wear down.

[DaneMcCloud]

Nevertheless, "The Plan" is in full effect now. We're more talented than we've been in most positions than we've been for several years - except for OC.

FAX

I'd have to disagree with that statement.

Gailey's had far more success as an offensive coordinator than Al Saunders.

[Reerun_KC]

When did you start following the Chiefs? This year? Seriously.

2006: Carl Peterson insisted that Herm pick up where DV left off. No Trent Green. No Willie Roaf. Forced Mike Solari on him. 9-7 and a playoff loss.

2007: Carl Peterson insisted on staying the course. Brought in D-Mac in place of Roaf. Made Damon Huard the starter. He even admitted that he thought that the old guys had "one more year". ****ing idiot.

2008: Herm goes to Clark Hunt asking for a total rebuild. Hunt complies and Peterson's power has been reduced. Rebuilding begins. Best Possible Athlete chosen at each and every draft position. Expect no more than 3 total wins in 2008.


fair enough, you answered all the questions I had... Herm is/was a hand puppet for Carl, that is why he was hired.

So basically, you are saying we can forget the previous spineless Herm years, and start fresh now? So now we are seeing "the plan" in action?

[Rooster]

I'm going to try and speak for those who have no speak.

I don't think peeps want Herm gone because they necessarily expect him to win without those players, Mr. DaneMcCloud. Clearly, the team is missing key talent in critically important positions. Rather, they want him gone because he is a complete idiot and really isn't doing the good players we already have any special favors by running an offense that will get its ass kicked every Sunday - not necessarily due to lack of talent - but because the playcalling is completely stupid and the enemy knows what we're going to run before we run it because the guys in the booth calling the game know what we're going to run before we run it because the 9 year-old kid who just wet his pants because he drank too much coke and forgot knows what we're going to run before we run it.

As for me, I think Herm should stay another year and handle the next draft for us. I think he's on a roll in that department and I wouldn't shoot that horse just yet. In 2010, however, I'd consider bringing in someone who is a more strategic thinker, can compete with the best in the league in terms of game day tactics, and knows how to bring offensive, defensive, and special teams balance to a franchise. That's what I'd friggin' do if I were king of the friggin' forest.

FAX

Well said FAX. Oh by the way, you are now the number one candidate for the GM job after Carl.

[Reerun_KC]

The first year, he was a new hire and Carl was driving the doom train at the time, Mr. Reerun_KC. Carl thought they could make a run for the playoffs with DV's remains, some FA guys, and a couple of rooks. Herm didn't know any better and, in retrospect, it was stupid.

Even stupider was the next year when we tried to field an o-line with glue on the hoof that should have been shot in the head sometime during the off-season. Now, that was really, really stupid.

Nevertheless, "The Plan" is in full effect now. We're more talented than we've been in most positions than we've been for several years - except for OC.

FAX

Thanks Mr Fax.

FYI, Gailey is 20 times the Coach Herm will ever dream of being...

[dirk digler]

So if Herm goes 0-16,1-15, 2-14 or 3-13 this year should he come back?

This should be interesting.

[beach tribe]

I disagree partly because if the offense always has 3 and outs then the D is on the field the whole game and will eventually wear down.

Yea, I hear ya, but when their o is popping off 10 yrd runs to kill the clock, and you have 8 men in the box, and know it's coming, it's good idication that they could have ran all over our asses the whole game, and did for that matter.

[Chiefnj2]

Herm is great. He's got a good percentage of fans still believing everything is somebody elses fault. Bad acquisitions, bad decisions it's all Peterson. Everything was forced on poor Herm who didn't have a choice. He had to coach the Chiefs and had to listen to everything Peterson told him.

[keg in kc]

I'm still in the school of thought that the offensive playcalling is more a product of the talent than vice-versa, particularly the offensive line, which is horrible right now. I'm not sure there's a coordinator that could get anything meaningful out of the starting 5 we're throwing out there. It's kind of like how Saunders' offense was one thing in 2001, and something else in 2002. The difference was the line.

The only thing I don't get is why they're so dead-set towards running on first down. That makes zero sense to me. But on the other hand, as conservative as they were, they still got sacked 5 times yesterday.

And it's going to take some time for a roster this young to 'get it'. Week 2 is a little early to panic for me. If there's no change by, say, week 12, I'd be more apt to entertain the idea.

Either way, I'm still glad DV is gone. The franchise was going nowhere but down, much like in 1998 when Marty left.

[Reerun_KC]

So if Herm goes 0-16,1-15, 2-14 or 3-13 this year should he come back?

This should be interesting.

Nope...

But others will argue that Herms plan is in full swing and we will have a superbowl offense really soon.

[DaneMcCloud]

fair enough, you answered all the questions I had... Herm is/was a hand puppet for Carl, that is why he was hired.

So basically, you are saying we can forget the previous spineless Herm years, and start fresh now? So now we are seeing "the plan" in action?

That's what I'm expecting.

Dungy was given 5 years in Tampa Bay. Lovie was given 3 years in Chicago. Dungy was given a long leash in Indy as well.

It takes a little time to completely turn over a roster with youth. If the talent is in place in 2010 but Herm can only win 4 games, it's time to hit the road.

But he was given an impossible task in 2006 and Peterson exerted his will for 2007.

It's Herm's time to prove that his way is the right way.

[Baby Lee]

DV - Fun, but ultimately heartbreaking.
HE - Completely lifecrushing, but hey, at least there'll be no big letdown at the end!

More like;

DV - 1/2 fun, 1/2 embarassing, overall disappointing. I can honestly say I was never heartbroken, because I never expected anything important to happen without a D.
You got the lifecrushing of Herm down though.

[ChiefsCountry]

So if Herm goes 0-16,1-15, 2-14 or 3-13 this year should he come back?

This should be interesting.

He will be back, he has this year and next.

[Reerun_KC]

I'm still in the school of thought that the offensive playcalling is more a product of the talent than vice-versa, particularly the offensive line, which is horrible right now. I'm not sure there's a coordinator that could get anything meaningful out of the starting 5 we're throwing out there. It's kind of like how Saunders' offense was one thing in 2001, and something else in 2002. The difference was the line.

The only thing I don't get is why they're so dead-set towards running on first down. That makes zero sense to me. But on the other hand, as conservative as they were, they still got sacked 5 times yesterday.

And it's going to take some time for a roster this young to 'get it'. Week 2 is a little early to panic for me. If there's no change by, say, week 12, I'd be more apt to entertain the idea.

Either way, I'm still glad DV is gone. The franchise was going nowhere but down, much like in 1998 when Marty left.

that is why Herm has went to 5 OC's already in his short tenure...

BTW, His lines in NYJ, we just a shit as ours....

either way, I will be thrilled when Herm is gone, This franchise is going nowhere but down, Same way with Marty in 1998...

[DaneMcCloud]

Herm is great. He's got a good percentage of fans still believing everything is somebody elses fault. Bad acquisitions, bad decisions it's all Peterson. Everything was forced on poor Herm who didn't have a choice. He had to coach the Chiefs and had to listen to everything Peterson told him.

Are you disputing the fact that there were bad personnel decisions? If so, how could expect ANYONE to win with the shit he was given in 2006 & 2007?

Bill Parcells coached the Cowboys to 9-7 in 2006 but Wade Phillips coached essentially the same team to 13-3.

Does that mean that Phillips is a better coach? Or that the players matured?

[DaneMcCloud]

that is why Herm has went to 5 OC's already in his short tenure...

BTW, His lines in NYJ, we just a shit as ours....


But, but, but, but, but - how could that be?

Herm inherited a team built by the great Bill Parcells!!!

How could the line go bad in three seasons?

[Baby Lee]

Are you disputing the fact that there were bad personnel decisions? If so, how could expect ANYONE to win with the shit he was given in 2006 & 2007?

Bill Parcells coached the Cowboys to 9-7 in 2006 but Wade Phillips coached essentially the same team to 13-3.

Does that mean that Phillips is a better coach? Or that the players matured?

[Future Chiefs HC] Jason Garrett FTW.

[DJJasonp]

It would be really interesting to know who had the most input in draft and free-agent decisions over the past 20 years.

IF you think about it - and IF carl is responsible for Neil Smith, DT, Montana, Allen, and LJ (the old LJ, not the "Paid" LJ).....maybe Carl is the only one in this organization that can evaluate talent???

:) Nuthooks are on their way for saying this.....but it is an interesting notion...

[ChiefsCountry]

Jason Garrett FTW.

He will be the Cowboys coach next year. Jones paid him more than some head coaches to be OC.

[DaneMcCloud]

[Future Chiefs HC] Jason Garrett FTW.

So Garrett>Parcells?

[keg in kc]

That's what I'm expecting.

Dungy was given 5 years in Tampa Bay. Lovie was given 3 years in Chicago. Dungy was given a long leash in Indy as well.

It takes a little time to completely turn over a roster with youth. If the talent is in place in 2010 but Herm can only win 4 games, it's time to hit the road.

But he was given an impossible task in 2006 and Peterson exerted his will for 2007.

It's Herm's time to prove that his way is the right way.And unless I'm misreading you, you're not even saying Herm will prove his way is the right way, you're only saying he should be given time to make the attempt. Time meaning more than two games.

I know I'm not a "Herm supporter" by any means, but I am a supporter of giving the guy a fair shot. Because I think he got himself into a bad situation coming here, and I think he should get a chance to work his way out of it.

The thing is, his perceived weaknesses are magnified because the talent on the team has been so bad. Other coaches make the same kind of mistakes but win despite it, because at the end of the day, their players are just better than their opponents'. But maybe I'm blinded by my belief that players win and lose games much more often than coaches or coordinators do.

[Fish]

To me, the week 1 offense was them playing the way they thought they had to play to win the game. And it almost worked, like it or not.

'course, they lost Croyle during that game, and then Huard early yesterday. I'm sorry Air Thigpen wasn't aggessive enough or impressive enough for you. I mean, the 3rd team QB with no NFL experience really out to be out there chucking it around the field. Pussies!

Why oh why weren't we doing 7 step drops and throwing the ball 40 yards?? All they had to do was just call those plays. Nevermind that Thigpen was hitting Oakland defenders in the chest with the ball while no red jersey was within 10 yards....

[OnTheWarpath15]

And unless I'm misreading you, you're not even saying Herm will prove his way is the right way, you're only saying he should be given time to make the attempt. Time meaning more than two games.

I know I'm not a "Herm supporter" by any means, but I am a supporter of giving the guy a fair shot. Because I think he got himself into a bad situation coming here, and I think he should get a chance to work his way out of it.

The thing is, his perceived weaknesses are magnified because the talent on the team has been so bad. Other coaches make the same kind of mistakes but win despite it, because at the end of the day, their players are just better than their opponents'. But maybe I'm blinded by my belief that players win and lose games much more often than coaches or coordinators do.

You and I are in total agreement on that issue...

[ChiefsCountry]

The thing is, his perceived weaknesses are magnified because the talent on the team has been so bad. Other coaches make the same kind of mistakes but win despite it, because at the end of the day, their players are just better than their opponents'. But maybe I'm blinded by my belief that players win and lose games much more often than coaches or coordinators do.

See Turner, Norv.

[Baby Lee]

So Garrett>Parcells?

I'd say Parcells knows as much about the O as Herm, in that they're both 'run the basics, execute and don't make mistakes' types on that side of the ball.
Seriously, the Giants were a great champion, but that O was a smidge better than Marty-ball with the iron mind of Simms making the difference [much like Montana did for a while].
And the Patriots were run heavy as well.

Garrett is miles ahead of everyone except the Pats organization in offensive preparation.

[Chief Henry]

[QUOTE=Reerun_KC;5021789]I will never forget how people lined up like lemmings to defend Herm when he arrived. They were so excited that they had a Defensive minded HC and a draft day genius...

QUOTE]

That wasn't me dude. I hated the choice of Herm Edwards. My views haven't changed at all. Remember how we shredded his NY Jets on opening
day at Arrowhead. He's teams are NOT prepared at all.

Screw you Carl Petersen :shake:

[dirk digler]

Yea, I hear ya, but when their o is popping off 10 yrd runs to kill the clock, and you have 8 men in the box, and know it's coming, it's good idication that they could have ran all over our asses the whole game, and did for that matter.

There is no question about that. we have the worst front 7 in the NFL.

[keg in kc]

For the record, I didn't particularly like the Edwards hiring, although I saw it coming more than a year before it happened. I'm much more of an offense-oriented guy, and hate martyocre-style football.

But, well, he's the coach, and I'll give him the same chance to turn this franchise around that I gave Vermeil.

Not that it matters to him.

[TEX]

Not me. I don't particularly like having the worst defense in football.

But now we are the WORST team in football with the WORST coach...:shake:

[Lzen]

I'll admit that I've flipflopped on Herm multiple times. Let's see ...

1. When he arrived ... Pro-Herm.
2. When he lied about leaving the offense alone ... Anti-Herm.
3. When he improved the D ... Pro-Herm.
4. When he blamed the O for the Cleveland fiasco ... Anti-Herm.
5. When he wanted Croyle to start over Downfield ... Pro-Herm.
6. When he started Downfield ... Anti-Herm.
7. When he came up with "The Plan" ... Pro-Herm.
8. When he demonstrated "The Plan" in action ... Anti-Herm.

And that's where I stand today.

FAX

ROFL Fanfreakintastic, Mr. FAX.

[dirk digler]

That's what I'm expecting.

Dungy was given 5 years in Tampa Bay. Lovie was given 3 years in Chicago. Dungy was given a long leash in Indy as well.

It takes a little time to completely turn over a roster with youth. If the talent is in place in 2010 but Herm can only win 4 games, it's time to hit the road.

But he was given an impossible task in 2006 and Peterson exerted his will for 2007.

It's Herm's time to prove that his way is the right way.

Bad examples. Tony turned around the hapless Bucs in 1 year and Lovie got to the SB in his first year. In fact Tony went to the playoffs in 4 out of 5 season with the Bucs.

[Reerun_KC]

There is no question about that. we have the worst front 7 in the NFL.
Okay now I am really confused,

But inst the majority of the front 7, players that have been drafted by Herm?

How could they be the worst front 7 when we have completely turned that DL around in 3 years?

[KCrockaholic]

i personally miss Vermeil. id rather have a sucky D and an awesome offense, than an average D and a Horrible offense..this is sad...i Miss DV, hell i miss Marty

[Brock]

There is no question about that. we have the worst front 7 in the NFL.

That's kind of a dumb thing to say.

[OnTheWarpath15]

That's kind of a dumb thing to say.

Kind of?

[Brock]

i personally miss Vermeil. id rather have a sucky D and an awesome offense, than an average D and a Horrible offense..this is sad...i Miss DV, hell i miss Marty

Well, they're never coming back.

[Brock]

Kind of?

Well, I sort of like dirk, so I didn't want to be too harsh.

[HemiEd]

DV - Fun, but ultimately heartbreaking.
HE - Completely lifecrushing, but hey, at least there'll be no big letdown at the end!

Yeah because there is no "up" part to it all. The second game of the season, I could not watch it clear through. Back to the late seventies and early eighties, all over again. Only uglier. :spock:

[OnTheWarpath15]

Well, I sort of like dirk, so I didn't want to be too harsh.

Fair enough.

You want to get harsh?

Check out this abortion of a thread:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=191693

Hell, come over and mock debate me. I'm getting crickets.

[dirk digler]

That's kind of a dumb thing to say.

I don't think so.

Hali sucks
Dorsey rookie but is going to be good
Tyler = average
McBride = average to below average

The Linebackers all suck except DJ so basically we have 2 good players and the rest are average to below average

Maybe not the worst but probably bottom 5. I mean we were the only team to allow a 300 yd rushing game yesterday and so far for the season IIRC.

[DaneMcCloud]

But now we are the WORST team in football with the WORST coach...:shake:

Really? Are you ****ing serious?

How many playoff teams has Mike Nolan coached?

Brad Childress?

Rod Marinelli?

Jim Zorn?

[Abba-Dabba]

Don't miss Vermeil and won't miss Herm. Anti-DV, Anti-Herm from the get go.

[HemiEd]

As bad as the defense was....it was getting better.

One thing that was for certain. With DV, I always knew we had a good chance in winning the game.

With Herm, I feel we need a football miracle just to even score during the game.

That is the pitiful truth of it, he keeps the game close enough, that one score might win it. But you know going in, there aint a snowballs chance in hell, he will let the offense score.
I am 100% convinced he has the handcuffs on our wonderful new OC.

[HemiEd]

I love the Herm followers passing everything off on Carl. Any bad free agent acquisition = Carl. Like Herm had nothing to do with any of them. All those old ineffective Jets, yeah they were all Carls idea. Nap Harris and his cover 2 experience, all Peterson.

convenient for them.

[Reerun_KC]

But, but, but, but, but - how could that be?

Herm inherited a team built by the great Bill Parcells!!!

How could the line go bad in three seasons?

Now you are trying to tell me that Herm is better than Parcells?
ROFL

so answer me this, why do you keep giving Herm a free pass for never addressing the OL neither here or at NYJ? and if he has addressed the OL, why are they always among the worst and why does Herm goes through so many QB's?

From what I have seen, as soon as his predicessor's players go to shit, so does Herm... can we get some proof to prove that is wrong?

[DaneMcCloud]

Now you are trying to tell me that Herm is better than Parcells?
ROFL

so answer me this, why do you keep giving Herm a free pass for never addressing the OL neither here or at NYJ? and if he has addressed the OL, why are they always among the worst and why does Herm goes through so many QB's?

From what I have seen, as soon as his predicessor's players go to shit, so does Herm... can we get some proof to prove that is wrong?

No. That was sarcasm.

So many people blame Edwards for "failing" in New York, even though he was "handed" a team built by Parcells. My response to that is this: If Parcells "built" such a great team, how did it completely fall apart in three years?

Furthermore, Carl Peterson is the GM of the Chiefs, not Herm Edwards. Until this year, the Chiefs hadn't drafted a first day offensive lineman since John Tait in 1999.

Is that Herm's fault, too?

[Frazod]

Yeah because there is no "up" part to it all. The second game of the season, I could not watch it clear through. Back to the late seventies and early eighties, all over again. Only uglier. :spock:

I still can't believe we brought in some sawed-off scrub from the practice squad to run option plays. Seriously - what the hell was that? I still can't believe that happened. It's like something out of Will Ferrell sports movie.

[keg in kc]

I still can't believe we brought in some sawed-off scrub from the practice squad to run option plays. Seriously - what the hell was that? I still can't believe that happened. It's like something out of Will Ferrell sports movie.I was literally embarrassed when we did that.

Slash light.

Fortunately I was watching the game by myself so I didn't have to hide my head in shame.

That said, I got to give them (tiny) kudos for trying something, anything to get the offense going.

[Reerun_KC]

My response to that is this: If Parcells "built" such a great team, how did it completely fall apart in three years?

Herm Edwards

I bet you could get plenty of Jets fans to agree with this.....

[BigRock]

so answer me this, why do you keep giving Herm a free pass for never addressing the OL neither here or at NYJ?

Why do you keep pretending to have any idea of what Herm did in NY? You don't. You never have. You never will.

[MichaelH]

The problem with Dick was that he disrespected the defense. He made the team terribly off balanced. And he played favorites. We certainly didn't get disrespected as bad but it was still a joke that the Chiefs could score 35 points and get blown out. What boggles me everyday is why can't the Chief's ownership create a balanced football team.

I guess every coach will have their good and bad points. The problem is now the Chief's coach has no good ones.

[Mecca]

Herm is great. He's got a good percentage of fans still believing everything is somebody elses fault. Bad acquisitions, bad decisions it's all Peterson. Everything was forced on poor Herm who didn't have a choice. He had to coach the Chiefs and had to listen to everything Peterson told him.

He's like a Republican that 8 years later has people thinking that everything is Bill Clinton's fault.

[Reerun_KC]

Why do you keep pretending to have any idea of what Herm did in NY? You don't. You never have. You never will.
And you do? Bitch please, and if you do enlighten us ol wise one with your Knowledge...

[damaticous]

Dickless made our defense an embarrassment, unfortunately now our offense is just as bad as that defense was....we aren't any better

New GM and new Coaching will make things better

True, defense was greatly lacking, but Dick built a much better team that Herm has or WILL!!!!!

Come on. the Jets were THANKING US for taking him.

I know things suck and I think we all expected it considering the youth of the team and all, but seriously???? we lost against the laughing stock of the NFL. Where does that put us now?

dick put us in a MUCH closer position to go somewhere than Herm will.

Hopefully I'll eat my words, but I doubt it.

[OctoberFart]

I was excited especially when KC traded a pick for SPERM.

[SAUTO]

I was excited especially when KC traded a pick for SPERM.

ill be excited when you shoot yourself in the face

[BigRock]

And you do?

I certainly know more than you do. Which isn't to say that I know much of anything, it's just easy to know more than someone who doesn't have the first clue what he's talking about.

To wit: how about a few weeks ago when you were telling us how Herm left NY because "the NY media was too hard on him". Even the most diehard green-bleeding Herm-hating Jets fan wouldn't agree with that. If anything, they would tell you the complete opposite. They'd tell you that Herm, even though he was horrible and an embarrassment to professional sports and all that, somehow got a free pass from the media for it all.

Or, by all means, keep telling us how Herm's lines in NY were just as bad as ours is now. Our current line has gotten LJ a whopping yards-per-carry average of 2.8. And that includes his fluke 22 yard run against New England the other week. Remove that run and it looks a lot worse.

The offensive line Herm had in NY the year old-ass Curtis Martin won the rushing title ('04) gave Martin a YPC average of 4.6. The Jets overall had a YPC of 4.5. Know what our overall YPC average was that same year? Back in the glory days of Roaf and Shields and T-Rich and Saunders and Vermeil? 4.6. Yep, that's right. We averaged all of ONE TENTH OF A YARD better than Herm's Jets.

Even in '05 when the Jets tanked, and Kevin Mawae and 1 or 2 of their other starting linemen went down for the season, they still had a YPC of 3.5. You think LJ wouldn't take 3.5 right now and run with it like he stole something?

But please, keep right on impressing us with your vast knowledge on these topics.

[Reerun_KC]

I stand corrected Big Rock... Thanks for setting me straight about Herm..

[Chiefnj2]

The problem with Dick was that he disrespected the defense. He made the team terribly off balanced. And he played favorites. We certainly didn't get disrespected as bad but it was still a joke that the Chiefs could score 35 points and get blown out. What boggles me everyday is why can't the Chief's ownership create a balanced football team.

I guess every coach will have their good and bad points. The problem is now the Chief's coach has no good ones.

Dick did not disrespect the defense. He spent plenty of draft picks on the defense. Dick was smart enough to know that Defense wasn't his strength. He clearly delegated defensive control to his DCs. Dick's downfall was that he chose GROB and Gunther and gave them total control.

[Reerun_KC]

One thing big rock, You have served me, now time for some friendly discussions.

If Herms OL were so great, Why the big differnece in team rushing stats? So what if they averaged 3.5+ ypc, their total stats for rushing arent all that impressive.... And I could careless about comparing stats with Al "jesus" Saunders, or Crybaby Vermiel...

Jets total rushing offense?

2001 4th
2002 22nd
2003 25th
2004 3rd
2005 31st

Chiefs
2006 9th
2007 32nd
2008 Currently 24th

[Reerun_KC]

Dick did not disrespect the defense. He spent plenty of draft picks on the defense. Dick was smart enough to know that Defense wasn't his strength. He clearly delegated defensive control to his DCs. Dick's downfall was that he chose GROB and Gunther and gave them total control.


Those were very bad choices that haunted us for years...

[WilliamTheIrish]

Forgive Reerun Rock. He's an idiot. It's not his fault really. The guy is just plain dumb. You see it in every post with poor grammar and the inability to spell the simplest words. He apparently thinks everybody on the board was enamored with the hiring of Herm. I'm betting there were a dozen tops.

Herm's hire wasn't met with a much of anything by this board. (Okay, GoChiefs was happy) Why? Because we have all seen these type of hires before. One of Carl's old friends from his glory days in Philly where the glory was just a little greater than what he's achieved here. Yes, they got the Eagles TO the SB. They got the beatdown. In a big way.

But if you go back and read the stories from SI, you'll read just how uptight Vermiel and Carl were in those days. That SB was in NOLA. The Raiders were out all night partying and living it up, while DV was doing bedchecks, locking down the players and generally being a somewhat younger version of the crybaby old man he became after he retired and unretired and then.... retired again. Just like carl did here. Remember when he canceled the players radio shows the week before the Jan. playoff loss to the Donx? Same thing.

Back to the hiring issue.

After Dv we get the one of the CB's from that team that Carl can keep in check. There was little sense in getting upset about the hire. We had the Jets trolls tell us how bad Herm was. They were too stupid understand how bad Herm was when HE WAS HIRED. BY TERRY BRADWAY! Who was? That's right, one of Carl's cronies and the architect of the demolition of the J.E.T.S. They were too stupid to realize WE had hoodwinked them years before into taking one of the guys who had been in charge of scouting and player personnel for the Chiefs! And we know how well our drafts were with those knuckleheads at the helm.

Dumb****s thet they are, they laughed at us for hiring Herm. But the joke was on them from the beginning.


I think.

Anyway, the bottom is this: Carl hired Herm and there wasn't a damn thing a fan could do about it. This is the GM that after Marty resigned, hired Mr. aviator glasses, fired him over the internet, and then hired DV, who had been hanging around Arrowhead as a paid consultant, and then begged DV to fire the DC only to have DV re-hire Mr. aviator glasses, who WAS NEVER GOING TO BE SUCCESSFUL because the emphasis was on the offensive side of the ball and all the cussing in the world wasn't going to make Greg Wesley and William Bartee NFL players. And who drafted those shit players?

I only know for certain that I'm not buying a single Chiefs product until this regime is finished.

F this team, GM, franchise, owner, players, league, NFLE, GU, Boras. All of them can go to hell.

[Reerun_KC]

Forgive Reerun Rock. He's an idiot. It's not his fault really. The guy is just plain dumb. You see it in every post with poor grammar and the inability to spell the simplest words. He apparently thinks everybody on the board was enamored with the hiring of Herm. I'm betting there were a dozen tops.

Herm's hire wasn't met with a much of anything by this board. (Okay, GoChiefs was happy) Why? Because we have all seen these type of hires before. One of Carl's old friends from his glory days in Philly where the glory was just a little greater than what he's achieved here. Yes, they got the Eagles TO the SB. They got the beatdown. In a big way.

But if you go back and read the stories from SI, you'll read just how uptight Vermiel and Carl were in those days. That SB was in NOLA. The Raiders were out all night partying and living it up, while DV was doing bedchecks, locking down the players and generally being a somewhat younger version of the crybaby old man he became after he retired and unretired and then.... retired again. Just like carl did here. Remember when he canceled the players radio shows the week before the Jan. playoff loss to the Donx? Same thing.

Back to the hiring issue.

After Dv we get the one of the CB's from that team that Carl can keep in check. There was little sense in getting upset about the hire. We had the Jets trolls tell us how bad Herm was. They were too stupid understand how bad Herm was when HE WAS HIRED. BY TERRY BRADWAY! Who was? That's right, one of Carl's cronies and the architect of the demolition of the J.E.T.S. They were too stupid to realize WE had hoodwinked them years before into taking one of the guys who had been in charge of scouting and player personnel for the Chiefs! And we know how well our drafts were with those knuckleheads at the helm.

Dumb****s thet they are, they laughed at us for hiring Herm. But the joke was on them from the beginning.


I think.

Anyway, the bottom is this: Carl hired Herm and there wasn't a damn thing a fan could do about it. This is the GM that after Marty resigned, hired Mr. aviator glasses, fired him over the internet, and then hired DV, who had been hanging around Arrowhead as a paid consultant, and then begged DV to fire the DC only to have DV re-hire Mr. aviator glasses, who WAS NEVER GOING TO BE SUCCESSFUL because the emphasis was on the offensive side of the ball and all the cussing in the world wasn't going to make Greg Wesley and William Bartee NFL players. And who drafted those shit players?

I only know for certain that I'm not buying a single Chiefs product until this regime is finished.

F this team, GM, franchise, owner, players, league, NFLE, GU, Boras. All of them can go to hell.


Thanks Bill, I appreiciate your vote of confidence, justs rememmembers nexts time you get on big airplanes, I just might be yours pilot....

I will download firefox like you, so I's can spells checks every post on an internets bullentin board...

[WilliamTheIrish]

Thanks Bill, I appreiciate your vote of confidence, justs rememmembers nexts time you get on big airplanes, I just might be yours pilot....

I will download firefox like you, so I's can spells checks every post on an internets bullentin board...

Sorry RR.

It's a little frustrating reading the same post from you every day. We know Herm is a terrible coach. We know you know Herm is a terrible coach. We know that you we know Herm is terrible coach.

I never said anything about your skills as a pilot. You're probably great. You simply don't spell worth a shit.

[chiefsfan1963]

You're a clueless moron.

Dispute it then.

There is no comparison when DV was our HC and what we have now. I will take the former right now. We would be having alot better time now instead of thinking about next year's draft after the second game of the regular season.

I think you are the clueless moron! :D

[chiefsfan1963]

Our drafts were the ultimate suck well before DV came to town. Some time back, there was a giant flurry of analysis on the Planet that lasted about a week or so on this very subject. It was completely obvious that, under Carl, the Chiefs have one of the worst (if not the worst) draft record in the league based on how many players actually made football a career (either with the Chiefs or with someone else).

The fact is that the draft where we picked DT was arguably the last really decent draft we had until DV got here and we picked up guys like Allen (a fluke) and LJ and DJ. When you look at it that way, DV's drafts were an enormous improvement. They still sucked, but they were much, much better than we'd had for practically 20 years.

FAX

:clap::clap::clap:

Didn't DV draft Colquitt? Probably our best offensive weapon in the Herm era.

:):)

[chiefsfan1963]

He hasn't failed to address this OL in 3 years, unless you just simply haven't been paying attention.

Didn't DV address that need when he brought Roaf here. Obviously he understood the foudation of a good O is a good OL!

[chiefsfan1963]

As bad as the defense was....it was getting better.

One thing that was for certain. With DV, I always knew we had a good chance in winning the game.

With Herm, I feel we need a football miracle just to even score during the game.

:clap::clap::clap:

[chiefsfan1963]

i personally miss Vermeil. id rather have a sucky D and an awesome offense, than an average D and a Horrible offense..this is sad...i Miss DV, hell i miss Marty

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

[|Zach|]

:clap::clap::clap:
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5024220&postcount=2

[chiefsfan1963]

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5024220&postcount=2

And your point is?

[|Zach|]

And your point is?

I am asking you to answer the question.

It is quite simple really.

[chiefsfan1963]

I am asking you to answer the question.

It is quite simple really.

Actually it's not but I'm not going to waste my breath.

[|Zach|]

Actually it's not but I'm not going to waste my breath.

It isn't a simple thing to answer if we have won a playoff game under DV or not?

Are you retarded?

[Sure-Oz]

Actually it's not but I'm not going to waste my breath.

Simple Jack, is that you?

[dj56dt58]

We had the best offense in the league in 2003 and had 9 pro bowlers and guess what DV did with that...lost at home in our first playoff game. Not exactly what I am looking for in a head coach. Neither DV nor Herm is the answer.

I'll take losing to Indy in a playoff game in a thriller over watching the Raiders hand us our ass at home any day

[MahiMike]

I bow down to a picture of DV every day and pray for his return. GM this time!

[dj56dt58]

I bow down to a picture of DV every day and pray for his return. GM this time!

gm? So we can re draft Ryan Sims?

[OnTheWarpath15]

gm? So we can re draft Ryan Sims?

No, we trade up to take Junior Siavii in the FIRST round this time...

[noa]

I'll take losing to Indy in a playoff game in a thriller over watching the Raiders hand us our ass at home any day

Why? If you don't win the Super Bowl, neither is worth anything. And we didn't just lose, we set a historical precedent by not stopping them a single time in the game at home. How embarrassing and insulting to our fans.
I'd rather have a coach who is building us to a Super Bowl run, and DV wasn't doing that because he was neglecting defense the whole time.

[chiefsfan1963]

Why? If you don't win the Super Bowl, neither is worth anything. And we didn't just lose, we set a historical precedent by not stopping them a single time in the game at home. How embarrassing and insulting to our fans.
I'd rather have a coach who is building us to a Super Bowl run, and DV wasn't doing that because he was neglecting defense the whole time.

Just in you don't have HC or a GM who is building us to a SB run.

[Baby Lee]

Simple Jack, is that you?

That was '63's mistake, he went full-on retard.

[milkman]

You know, if Joan Rivers comes to my house and does a strip tease, I'm going to want to wash out my eyes with battery acid.

If Cameron Manheim comes to my house and does a strip tease, I am still going to want to wash my eyes with battery acid.

That's how I feel about Dick Crymeil and Herman ****ing Edwards.

They both suck.

The suckage ain't exactly the same, but they are still ****ing ugly and make me want to wash out my eyes with battery acid.

[OnTheWarpath15]

You know, if Joan Rivers comes to my house and does a strip tease, I'm going to want to wash out my eyes with battery acid.

If Cameron Manheim comes to my house and does a strip tease, I am still going to want to wash my eyes with battery acid.

That's how I feel about Dick Crymeil and Herman ****ing Edwards.

They both suck.

The suckage ain't exactly the same, but they are still ****ing ugly and make me want to wash out my eyes with battery acid.

Thanks for ruining my breakfast, but yeah, great analogy.

[Mr. Plow]

I'd rather have a coach who is building us to a Super Bowl run,

Sweet! When are we getting one of those?

[chiefs1111]

Sweet! When are we getting one of those?

when pigs fly

[noa]

Just in you don't have HC or a GM who is building us to a SB run.

No crap. I never claimed Herm was doing that. My whole point was that DV didn't either.

[ChiefsCountry]

I believe Herm is building us on a Super Bowl run, now he wont be the one coaching it but the starting blocks are there.

[Lzen]

True, defense was greatly lacking, but Dick built a much better team that Herm has or WILL!!!!!

Come on. the Jets were THANKING US for taking him.

I know things suck and I think we all expected it considering the youth of the team and all, but seriously???? we lost against the laughing stock of the NFL. Where does that put us now?

dick put us in a MUCH closer position to go somewhere than Herm will.

Hopefully I'll eat my words, but I doubt it.

For me, it's not so much that we lost to the laughing stock of the NFL. It's the way in which we lost. They are a joke and yet they made us look like the joke.

[Lzen]

I believe Herm is building us on a Super Bowl run, now he wont be the one coaching it but the starting blocks are there.

I do believe Herm is decent at drafting young players. I just wonder about the development and coaching.

[blueballs]

if DV is your glory days
humble pie will be a food staple