Why isn't Herm gone?

[whoman69]

If you ran the Chiefs, what would be the situation with our head coach right now?

[el borracho]

Carl and Herm out. Schottenheimer at GM (sort of a trial period, maybe replaced after the season, depending who is available) and probably Gailey at head coach (unless Marty had a bright idea)- again, Gailey as an interim until the end of the season when I would expect to replace him.

[DaneMcCloud]

Carl and Herm out. Schottenheimer at GM (sort of a trial period, maybe replaced after the season, depending who is available) and probably Gailey at head coach (unless Marty had a bright idea)- again, Gailey as an interim until the end of the season when I would expect to replace him.

Not only would I shoot myself is this were to happen, I'd shoot you first.

:cuss:

[el borracho]

You would shoot yourself over interim hires? What are your bright ideas?

[DaneMcCloud]

Carl and Herm out. Schottenheimer at GM (sort of a trial period, maybe replaced after the season, depending who is available) and probably Gailey at head coach (unless Marty had a bright idea)- again, Gailey as an interim until the end of the season when I would expect to replace him.

Maybe Marty would draft a shitty linebacker like Mike Junkin at #5 OVERALL, then when he's on his next team, he can trade for that shitty guy, too.

Or maybe he can suggest to draft a guy that hasn't thrown an interception in 140 passes, just like Bernie Kosar did once.

Or maybe he can suggest we draft another long-necked running back who can't hit holes.

Or just draft a first round running back and bang his GF.

Sound good?

[DaneMcCloud]

You would shoot yourself over interim hires? What are your bright ideas?

I think you're myopic idiot if Marty Schottenheimer, who's probably the least qualified person in the world to become a GM, is your only solution.

Or better yet, are you Clark Hunt in disguise?

Who the **** cares anyway?

Nobody is being fired mid-season.

[keg in kc]

At this point, I'd leave him in place; this is rebuilding year 1. If I wasn't willing to give him until 2010 to get the job done, I'd have fired him after 2007 and hired a new coach to rebuild.

Now, throwing out reality, if I were really the owner, Carl and I would have parted company in 2006, and a new GM would have come in with the new coach, whether that was Herm or someone else.

[Bearcat]

I never would have hired him to begin with, but firing him before this season would have been incredibly stupid. Everyone spends the offseason saying "it's going to get worse before it gets better", and then everyone panics when things don't immediately get better. You at least have to give it a chance to get better, or else you're going to knee-jerk your way through coaches and end up being the Arizona Cardinals.

Seriously, who are you going to hire that will immediately make this team better?

Yeah, if we play like last week for the rest of the season with no signs of improvement, and we're still running a Herm/Gailey hybrid offense and giving up 300 yards of rushing a game at the end of the season, maybe we should cut our losses.

I hate Herm as much or more than anyone, but come on people...

[Buehler445]

He would have been fired last year. The decision to can his ass after the season with 3 and a half minutes left in the Indy game.

[el borracho]

I think you're myopic idiot if Marty Schottenheimer, who's probably the least qualified person in the world to become a GM, is your only solution.

Or better yet, are you Clark Hunt in disguise?

Who the **** cares anyway?

Nobody is being fired mid-season.

Nice name-calling, jerk. Please explain to me what you think a GM does during the regular season and then tell me your bright ideas for the job as of 09/20/08.

[DaneMcCloud]

Nice name-calling, jerk. Please explain to me what you think a GM does during the regular season and then tell me your bright ideas for the job as of 09/20/08.

I said I'd think you were a myopic idiot if Marty were your only suggestion.

I didn't say that YOU were a myopic idiot.

There is a difference.

Regardless, there will be NO firings during the season.

What in the hell would that accomplish? Seriously?

WHAT?

[Tribal Warfare]

Waited until the end of the season then cleaned house

[Reerun_KC]

He would have been fired last year. The decision to can his ass after the season with 3 and a half minutes left in the Indy game.
QFT, Herm clearly quit on the team during that game. No coach ever deserves to continue to coach when he quits.

The offense was building some confidence, he paniced, punted, and just flat out pulled a Damon Huard.

[RedThat]

If you ran the Chiefs, what would be the situation with our head coach right now?

Definately fire herm. Maybe make chan run the team to finish off the year.

I think Chan would be a better option at this point?

[Reerun_KC]

Definately fire herm. Maybe make chan run the team to finish off the year.

I think Chan would be a better option at this point?
Fire Carl and Herm..

Interm GM Clark Hunt
Interm HC Chan Gailey

[RedThat]

I think you're myopic idiot if Marty Schottenheimer, who's probably the least qualified person in the world to become a GM, is your only solution.

Or better yet, are you Clark Hunt in disguise?

Who the **** cares anyway?

Nobody is being fired mid-season.

when you lose 11 games in a row, and possibly 12 after this week? I think they will lose to Atlanta. I don't care who you are, you're FIRED! At least deserve to be? This league is about results, and Herms results are losses.

Just focusing on the reality part of it.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Fire Carl and Herm..

Interm GM Clark Hunt
Interm HC Chan Gailey

Make Kuharich the interim GM

Have Herm drawn and quartered in the Red Reserved lot.

Make Gailey your HC, Price the OC, keep Gunther til the end of the year.

At the end of the year, fire every single mother****er in that entire building.

[Mr. Laz]

Carl is tied to Herm ...... they will be leaving together.


whenever that is

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I said I'd think you were a myopic idiot if Marty were your only suggestion.

I didn't say that YOU were a myopic idiot.

There is a difference.

Regardless, there will be NO firings during the season.

What in the hell would that accomplish? Seriously?

WHAT?

A small amount of vengeance.

[Reerun_KC]

Make Kuharich the interim GM

Have Herm drawn and quartered in the Red Reserved lot.

Make Gailey your HC, Price the OC, keep Gunther til the end of the year.

At the end of the year, fire every single mother****er in that entire building.

Hell Yeah!:clap:

[RedThat]

Herm and Carl are to blame, but I really think the Chiefs have really bad ownership. Pretty much sums up the reason why they're bad?

The problem is, the way I look at it, I think Clark is a nice guy but he is using the same tactics like his father. His father treated his execs like family and was incredibly loyal.

It's just a bad omen for success when you intertwine that type of mentality with business. Nobody and I mean nobody deserves a job for 20 years as a GM when your an underachieveing GM. Clark needs to change his mentality, and focus more on the results then treating Carl like family. He needs to be more schrude.

*If this season doesn't axe Herm and Carl then I don't know what will? Especially when we win 1 game.

[Bearcat]

He would have been fired last year. The decision to can his ass after the season with 3 and a half minutes left in the Indy game.

I preached for a long time afterwards how that game proved Herm would never improve with the talent... even when we had the chance to beat someone, his decision making came down to winning the game on the last play.. despite Peyton f***ing Manning being on the other sideline.

However, maybe it's just a situation of digging your own grave.... had we fired Herm after last season, we would have been going from all offense to all defense to (hopefully) something in between all within a few years; and zero continuity. Eh, I'm torn on that one. I'd like to see him go, but don't want to get into a death spiral of changing coaches every couple of years.

On one hand I really don't think Herm will ever win more than one or two playoff games in the same season... OTOH, we won't be talking playoffs for at least two more seasons, so as long as there's some improvement this year, it's not like we'd do much better with any other coach.

[DaneMcCloud]

Carl is tied to Herm ...... they will be leaving together.


whenever that is

I'm pretty much guessing when they die.

Though I'm beginning to believe that Peterson is immortal.


"There can be only ONE GM for the Chiefs!"

[RedThat]

I'm pretty much guessing when they die.

Though I'm beginning to believe that Peterson is immortal.


"There can be only ONE GM for the Chiefs!"

Whatcha gonna do Hulkster when Carl runs wild on youuuuuuuuuuuuuu!!!

['Hamas' Jenkins]

We owe the Hunt family nothing, that's for sure. They've made millions off of us and given us a shit product for years. Lamar was a nice man, but a complacent owner who was over the hill in the modern NFL. Clark hasn't done anything other than fill a suit so far.

The problem starts at the top, and trickles down from there.

[RedThat]

We owe the Hunt family nothing, that's for sure. They've made millions off of us and given us a shit product for years. Lamar was a nice man, but a complacent owner who was over the hill in the modern NFL. Clark hasn't done anything other than fill a suit so far.

The problem starts at the top, and trickles down from there.

This is why I don't understand why fans go to the games? But what kills me is when fans say they don't deserve this? Well, sure you do? You go watch a bad product and support it.

Sorry for taking a shot at the fans here, but Im just trying to speak in a sensible way.

[DaneMcCloud]

This is why I don't understand why fans go to the games?

Because there's nothing better to do on a Sunday during football season in Kansas City?

[Dayze]

"Don't panic; we're not mathmatically eliminated from the Playoffs; and only 0-1 in the division. 2 Game packages now available at kcchiefs.com"/Carl/Clark

[Dayze]

[QUOTE=RedBull;5038267]This is why I don't understand why fans go to the games? QUOTE]

Good point. I think it's because we've been brainwashed for so many years that we're close; a Chiefs game hase developed into an "Event". and for most of the last 20 years it has been somewhat warranted.

I think they still go because of habit. Which is sad.

[Bearcat]

We owe the Hunt family nothing, that's for sure.

The really sad part is the feeling is mutual

This is why I don't understand why fans go to the games? But what kills me is when fans say they don't deserve this? Well, sure you do? You go watch a bad product and support it.

Sorry for taking a shot at the fans here, but Im just trying to speak in a sensible way.

The culture is definitely changing from the "support at all costs" Cubs mentality, which is a good thing, IMO. Chiefs fans take so much pride for being great fans, I think a lot of people lose sight of the fact that it's a business, and if you're not being entertained, you should spend your disposable income elsewhere.

What are they going to do, leave? :Poke:

[RedThat]

[QUOTE=RedBull;5038267]This is why I don't understand why fans go to the games? QUOTE]

Good point. I think it's because we've been brainwashed for so many years that we're close; a Chiefs game hase developed into an "Event". and for most of the last 20 years it has been somewhat warranted.

I think they still go because of habit. Which is sad.

I think it has to do more with love. The Chiefs fans have that. But as the years go by, the Hunts are making it harder to love Chiefs football.

[Skip Towne]

Not only would I shoot myself is this were to happen, I'd shoot you first.

:cuss:

All the more reason to do it.

[RedThat]

The really sad part is the feeling is mutual



The culture is definitely changing from the "support at all costs" Cubs mentality, which is a good thing, IMO. Chiefs fans take so much pride for being great fans, I think a lot of people lose sight of the fact that it's a business, and if you're not being entertained, you should spend your disposable income elsewhere.

What are they going to do, leave? :Poke:

I'd never doubt the Chiefs fans in that regard. I just think a message needs to be sent. Sometimes thats what it takes?

If you're team is always losing, you should have every right to leave, and I think they should leave. It is a business you're right, but, with a business comes customer satisfaction. Chief fans haven't received that.

[Chiefnj2]

There is nobody on staff to really take over.

Not much to do this year with the season underway.

I'd tell Herm to back off from the offense and let Gailey run it.

[Skip Towne]

There is nobody on staff to really take over.

Not much to do this year with the season underway.

I'd tell Herm to back off from the offense and let Gailey run it.

I would too. Anybody but Herm. What a dunce.

[ClevelandBronco]

He isn't gone because it would be embarrassing that Carl traded for him.

He didn't just hire a stiff. He traded for one.

[Skip Towne]

He isn't gone because it would be embarrassing that Carl traded for him.

He didn't just hire a stiff. He traded for one.

Good point.

[Bearcat]

I'd never doubt the Chiefs fans in that regard. I just think a message needs to be sent. Sometimes thats what it takes?

If you're team is always losing, you should have every right to leave, and I think they should leave. It is a business you're right, but, with a business comes customer satisfaction. Chief fans haven't received that.

I completely agree. I really don't know why anyone would have stayed to watch the entire game last week. Maybe it was a great day outside and they don't mind paying $8 for a beer? Maybe their wife beats them? I dunno, I turned it off at halftime, because the Lions/Packers was much more entertaining.

I won't go as far as to say Carl doesn't care about winning, but the perfect business model is to be able to keep your customers despite raising prices every year and not worrying about the quality of the product. It would be like raising the price of gas $1 every year for 15 years, and then starting the 16th year, adding water.

[DaneMcCloud]

All the more reason to do it.

You don't like El Borracho?

[Rain Man]

After the Indianapolis game last year, I would've let him finish out the season as a "consultant" and now he'd be working for Greg Robinson in Syracuse.

[stumppy]

This is why I don't understand why fans go to the games? But what kills me is when fans say they don't deserve this? Well, sure you do? You go watch a bad product and support it.



I started a thread the other day entitled " The fans are killing this team" or something like that.
The business that has supported the Hunt family and their way of life for the last several decades is still going strong. Why would they want to screw with that ? The man that overseas their family business has done a fine job. The guy that runs the show has consistently kept this business very profitable over the years. The players make money, the coaches make money, the administrative people make money, Carl Peterson makes money, and the Hunt family has made a ton of money over the years.

Why would anyone want to mess with a business that has been that consistent for that long ?



WE ALL NEED TO HIT THEM WHERE IT HURTS OR THIS CRAP WILL NEVER CHANGE.

[Skip Towne]

You don't like El Borracho?

Not exactly. You said you would shoot yourself. I hope Marty and Clark are in secret negotiations right now.

[DaneMcCloud]

Not exactly. You said you would shoot yourself. I hope Marty and Clark are in secret negotiations right now.

I see that senility has begun to take its toll.

Sorry about that.

[Skip Towne]

I started a thread the other day entitled " The fans are killing this team" or something like that.
The business that has supported the Hunt family and their way of life for the last several decades is still going strong. Why would they want to screw with that ? The man that overseas their family business has done a fine job. The guy that runs the show has consistently kept this business very profitable over the years. The players make money, the coaches make money, the administrative people make money, Carl Peterson makes money, and the Hunt family has made a ton of money over the years.

Why would anyone want to mess with a business that has been that consistent for that long ?



WE ALL NEED TO HIT THEM WHERE IT HURTS OR THIS CRAP WILL NEVER CHANGE.

You are failing to recognize that it was not Carl who put those butts in the seats. It was Marty. As soon as he left, it started eroding. Vermiel helped a little bit but it has been downhill since Marty left.

[Skip Towne]

I see that senility has begun to take its toll.

Sorry about that.

Your opinion doesn't mean much to me. You tend to ignore the facts.

[TN_Chief]

I don't know if this has been said already...but I don't agree with the "no firings during the season" bit. IMO the moment a losing culture has started to permeate a team (and it has here) it's time for the FO and coaching staff to be cleaned out. No waiting, no bullshit...fired on the spot.

Think about it...what good comes from putting it off? You alienate/anger your fanbase. You lose money as ticket sales, concessions, etc. sales decline. You lose the confidence and interest of your players. You may even lose free agents who see what a disaster the team has become and either don't re-sign or don't consider signing because of it. A public firing in this case reaffirms to your fans and your players that you're about winning and will not accept what's become an embarrasment.

The mistake is assuming that a GM/HC situation is any different than any other job or relationship. If you hire someone at your business and they spend 2 years ****ing things up, do you hold off on firing them until the project they're in the middle of is ****ed up too? If your girlfriend repeatedly cheats on you, do you wait until after the class you're taking together to dump her, or is she out on her ass immediately?

Keeping Carl and Herm at this point serves no purpose other than to perpetuate the travesty this team has become.

[milkman]

I would never have hired the dumb**** to begin with.

[milkman]

Herm and Carl are to blame, but I really think the Chiefs have really bad ownership. Pretty much sums up the reason why they're bad?

The problem is, the way I look at it, I think Clark is a nice guy but he is using the same tactics like his father. His father treated his execs like family and was incredibly loyal.

It's just a bad omen for success when you intertwine that type of mentality with business. Nobody and I mean nobody deserves a job for 20 years as a GM when your an underachieveing GM. Clark needs to change his mentality, and focus more on the results then treating Carl like family. He needs to be more schrude.

*If this season doesn't axe Herm and Carl then I don't know what will? Especially when we win 1 game.

I think we have a new word for the lexicon.

[Skip Towne]

I would never have hired the dumb**** to begin with.

I wouldn't either knowing what I know now. But any of these "new blood" coaches are a crapshoot. You need a crystal ball to tell which ones will pan out.

[blueballs]

no firing Herm this season
no no no

[DaneMcCloud]

Your opinion doesn't mean much to me. You tend to ignore the facts.

And what would those fact be? Are you seriously stating that Marty Schottenheimer should be a GM in the NFL, despite his gaffes over the years, one of which I included in my post?

[DaneMcCloud]

I'm still waiting, Skippy.

[whoman69]

I said I'd think you were a myopic idiot if Marty were your only suggestion.

I didn't say that YOU were a myopic idiot.

There is a difference.

Regardless, there will be NO firings during the season.

What in the hell would that accomplish? Seriously?

WHAT?

We would get them out of this pattern of play before it takes permanent root.

[DeezNutz]

nekid photos.

[DaneMcCloud]

We would get them out of this pattern of play before it takes permanent root.

When the team's average age is 26.1, there's not too many guys around that have "this pattern of play".

How many old guys do you see on the roster? And how many do you think will be back next year? Two?

[Rain Man]

Why isn't Herm gone?


Another possibility is that the door says "Push" and he's pulling.

[boogblaster]

Play the hand dealt this year ... look over the youth .. send Herm and Carl to Denver and try to rebuild the O with more size and speed ... look for more LBers ... tell Gun and Chan goodluck elsewhere ... Hire Cowher as HC and maybe Phillips as GM with only a 2 year contract ....

[whoman69]

no firing Herm this season
no no no

This team is totally disfunctional right now. Do you really let that continue? What does it serve to keep these guys playing Herm style football the rest of the year? We will ruin any talent that we might have. Do we have to go 0-16 before a move is made?

[teedubya]

this season is a complete waste. 0 positives so far.

[SoCalBronco]

Well....the reason is obvious. It's just as GoChiefs said. There simply isn't enough data to determine that the Chiefs suck, yet. Clearly, firing Herm this early would be acting ignorantly.















:D

[MichaelH]

Why isn't he gone? Because he talks BS and the stands are full at home. Owners like to have their butts smoked.

[teedubya]

An Oldie, but a Goodie!!111

Posted 7/30/2007 7:30 PM | Comment | Recommend E-mail | Save | Print |

By Doug Tucker, AP Sports Writer
RIVER FALLS, Wis. — The youngest owner in the National Football League never draws up plays on cocktail napkins.
Clark Hunt, who quietly projects that same mild-mannered everyman quality that people admired so much in his late father, intends to make his presence felt in other ways.

"I don't plan to get involved in player personnel decisions," the 42-year-old son of the founder of the Kansas City Chiefs said in an interview with The Associated Press.

"But I am keenly interested in the strategy that we're using to build the football team over a three- and five-year period. I feel a responsibility to help us win the trophy that has my dad's name on it and get us to the Super Bowl."

Since the death of Lamar Hunt last December, Clark has been slowly - and in some ways reluctantly - stepping into a more visible role in the team's day-to-day operations. He, his sister and two brothers inherited equal shares of their father's vast estate, which includes real estate holdings, financial services and other sports properties. But as chairman of the board, Clark is the only one of Lamar's children taking an active role in running the family's most famous asset.

FIND MORE STORIES IN: Super Bowl | Pro Bowl | Kansas City Chiefs | Roger Goodell | National Football League | Larry Johnson | Herm Edwards | AFLAC Inc. | Arrowhead Stadium | Southern Methodist University | Carl Peterson | Lamar Hunt | Clark Hunt
"Being the public face of the team, if you will, is a major change and something I'm adapting to," he said during a lunch break at the Chiefs' training camp.

Clark Hunt played football in high school but does not pretend to be an expert in the strategic nuances of the game. He said he will leave the coaching to Herm Edwards and the day-to-day operation of the front office to general manager Carl Peterson.

Still, Chiefs officials who have worked with him on various projects describe the son of the founder of the AFL as a quick study who rarely requires a second explanation. A two-time winner of Southern Methodist University's highest academic honor, he graduated in 1987 first in his class.

"Anyone who has ever known Clark Hunt will tell you this is a very, very bright guy," said Peterson. "The apple did not fall far from the tree."

After his father began taking him to owners meetings a few years ago, Hunt gained enough respect to be appointed to the small search committee that helped select Roger Goodell as commissioner.

Nevertheless, NFL ownership meetings can be daunting.

"The first time I was in that room by myself, it was a little bit scary," Hunt said with a grin. "I am the youngest owner by a few months. There's nothing that prepares you to walk into an NFL owners meeting and get up for the first time and speak. It's pretty intimidating."

Working behind the scenes back home, Hunt has been heavily involved in planning the $250 million renovation of Arrowhead Stadium. He also has been keeping an eye on the ongoing contract dispute with Pro Bowl running back and training camp holdout Larry Johnson, who is asking for guaranteed money in the $28 million range.

"I won't be involved at all in the negotiations," Hunt said. "Certainly, the financial parameters that will be involved in that negotiation from our side is something Carl will clear with me before making that commitment. But I leave the decisions on who to sign and when to sign up to Carl and (assistant general manager Denny Thum) and the coaching staff."

The management rules his father laid down, however, remain in place. For example, Peterson must consult with Clark before trading any first-round draft choice.

"We have exactly the same understanding with Carl that he had with my father," Hunt said.

As part of the passing of the torch, Hunt addressed the players when they arrived in camp.

"I wanted them to know that even though my father has passed, our family cares deeply about the organization and the team," he said. "I shared a few goals with them in terms of our community involvement, our goal for success on the field."

While being the son of a famous and fabulously wealthy father certainly has its high points, there are possible downsides for a young man seeking his own identity.

At his funeral last December, Goodell referred to Lamar Hunt as "one of the greatest leaders and innovators in the history of sports."

That's quite a legacy for any son to live up to.

"I was thinking about that today," Hunt said. "I think probably every son thinks that he's different than his father, right? But I keep having people tell me, 'You're so much like your dad.'

"I don't know if I necessarily believe it. But I'm glad people have that perception because what better role model could you have? He was the best."

"The best advice I ever got was be your own man. I'm not real worried about measuring up to him because I don't think it's possible in many ways."

[whoman69]

When the team's average age is 26.1, there's not too many guys around that have "this pattern of play".

How many old guys do you see on the roster? And how many do you think will be back next year? Two?

I'm not talking about the old guys on the team, I'm talking about the young guys whose only system they know is the crap that Herm has put on the field. He's trying to have a ball control offense by having three and outs on every series. He doesn't realize the immense advantages the rules give to the offense. He has forgotten that playing to win the game means you have to score more points than the other team not just hope that 14 points is enough.