It Isn't Just The Talent

[FAX]

Based on the numbers (I missed almost all the first half), we couldn't have played any worse than we did in the first half of this game - I'm not sure anyone could. We dug a huge scoreboard hole, put the defense on the field way too long, and gave the offensive players every reason to give up.

Then, lo and behold, the guys come out and make a game of it in the second half. What that tells me is that we don't suck necessarily due to lack of talent as some peeps would have us believe. It's a factor, yes. But, we're losing games mainly because we have a coach that won't let the guys just relax and play from the first snap - not just when we're behind.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

FAX

Disclaimers: Sorry if repost.

[DJ's left nut]

Wait.

Your theory is that Herm Edwards isn't a good coach?

!@#$ that's novel.

[PRIEST]

COACHING :clap:

[Skip Towne]

Wait.

Your theory is that Herm Edwards isn't a good coach?

!@#$ that's novel.

Yeah, that can't be it.

[FAX]

Wait.

Your theory is that Herm Edwards isn't a good coach?

!@#$ that's novel.

Not just that. I think we have the talent to compete. I really do. To me, those guys could have just hung their heads and mailed in the second half, but they didn't. That's good.

Not only that, but by the third quarter, the defense was probably on their last legs and we still made it a game. That's encouraging, Mr. DJ's left nut. Very encouraging.

FAX

[Pitt Gorilla]

Eh, I still like what we're doing. We have young players and we are letting them play (sans the McIntosh thing). They will make mistakes and we will likely lose most of our games. I am fine with that IF the youngsters are getting better/showing that they can't compete.

[Bearcat]

I'm starting to have doubts that Herm does anything during the week. Nothing ever changes.

[PhillyChiefFan]

gutless, predictable football.

I was surprised he went for it at 4th and 2 and then again on 4th and 1.

[keg in kc]

It's a combination of talent and experience. Most of the vets on the team aren't very talented (See: McIntosh), and the younger players are going to make mental mistakes as they learn the pro game.

[FAX]

Eh, I still like what we're doing. We have young players and we are letting them play (sans the McIntosh thing). They will make mistakes and we will likely lose most of our games. I am fine with that IF the youngsters are getting better/showing that they can't compete.

I think you mean "can compete"?

To me, I think the guys showed something today. It's really difficult to play so poorly for two quarters, then turn it around. I wish they'd been a little more prepared, but with Thiggy behind center, I suppose that's what you expect. The fact that they didn't quit is very positive.

FAX

[PhillyChiefFan]

Not just that. I think we have the talent to compete. I really do. To me, those guys could have just hung their heads and mailed in the second half, but they didn't. That's good.

Not only that, but by the third quarter, the defense was probably on their last legs and we still made it a game. That's encouraging, Mr. DJ's left nut. Very encouraging.

FAX

I agree with your assessment Mr. Fax, I am glad to see that the youth of the team still is hanging in there. I am upset that we didn't win either of our, most likely, "easiest" games. I am praying we can beat Oakland in Oakland now.

Perhaps by that time, the team will gel enough to win.

I have always, and will always be a diehard, but it is tough now. Guess it sorts the fans out though. Hopefully, some day soon we can all say we stuck with the team through the bad season of 2008.

[DJ's left nut]

The difference between this week and last week?

We found one play....one MFing play...that worked. WIthout that stretch pitch play, we lose 42-7.

I saw absolutely nothing to be encouraged about. In the 2nd half, with a chance to actually get back in the game, the defense cratered. Even the FG attempt was a fluke b/c ATL can't field a punt.

I just don't see the 'fire' you saw. I saw a bunch of guys that still couldn't control gaps, still weren't blocking, still weren't hitting. I just saw that mixed in with a couple of nice runs that we sumbled into before ATL figured it out.


And there's a Thigpen pick. Like I said, nothing encouraging about this game.

[Bearcat]

Eh, I still like what we're doing. We have young players and we are letting them play (sans the McIntosh thing). They will make mistakes and we will likely lose most of our games. I am fine with that IF the youngsters are getting better/showing that they can't compete.

I can accept mistakes made in the execution of the gameplan... we don't have a ton of talent, and it's expected. What I can't accept is coaches who have been in the league for years having no f***ing idea what they're doing.

It took Atlanta all of 3 punts before they figured out what they needed to do to score. It took us SIX before figuring out how to get a FIRST DOWN.. and that drive only lasted 4 plays.

And we do it every freakin' week... it's the same thing. The same plays. The same cluelessness. NOTHING CHANGES.

[Pitt Gorilla]

I think you mean "can compete"?

To me, I think the guys showed something today. It's really difficult to play so poorly for two quarters, then turn it around. I wish they'd been a little more prepared, but with Thiggy behind center, I suppose that's what you expect. The fact that they didn't quit is very positive.

FAXNo, I meant can't compete. If you have a youngster with great potential, you have to put him on the field to see what he can do. In some cases, the guy will fail, but you won't know that unless he plays.

Oh, and gets Sams off the team.

[PhillyChiefFan]

I am impressed with Carr, he had 9 tackles.

I am not watching the game, was this simply because they were picking on him...or was he actually looking good?

[Tribal Warfare]

It's not the talent the problem is Mr. Clark Hunt. He needs to clean house and it's that simple

[the Talking Can]

we have the worst coaching staff in the league....

our players are never prepared, they never have an intelligent game plan, and they mostly suck at fundamentals


and ALL OF THIS is Herm's responsibility....

[TrickyNicky]

I am impressed with Carr, he had 9 tackles.

I am not watching the game, was this simply because they were picking on him...or was he actually looking good?

Unfortunately, he's just one of the few guys who can catch up to Turner and Norwood once they are 20-30 yards downfield.

[Mr. Laz]

Dick Curl rulez!!!!!!

[FAX]

No, I meant can't compete. If you have a youngster with great potential, you have to put him on the field to see what he can do. In some cases, the guy will fail, but you won't know that unless he plays.

Oh, and gets Sams off the team.

Ah ... I see what you mean. Absolutely, Mr. Pitt Gorilla, the guys need to be out there (in that respect, I endorse "The Plan"). It's all about gaining experience at this point.

And one of those experiences, of course, is to get your ass handed to you and find out how you respond. In this particular case, the guys fought back. That's one of the things I had hoped to see this year.

FAX

[Baby Lee]

Based on the numbers (I missed almost all the first half), we couldn't have played any worse than we did in the first half of this game - I'm not sure anyone could. We dug a huge scoreboard hole, put the defense on the field way too long, and gave the offensive players every reason to give up.

Then, lo and behold, the guys come out and make a game of it in the second half. What that tells me is that we don't suck necessarily due to lack of talent as some peeps would have us believe. It's a factor, yes. But, we're losing games mainly because we have a coach that won't let the guys just relax and play from the first snap - not just when we're behind.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

FAX

Disclaimers: Sorry if repost.
You DO know how dangerous it is to make pronouncements without watching the game, don't you?

I saw a lot to like today, relatively speaking.
The first half O was 1/2 dropped passes, 1/2 Thigpen throwing for shit. He's not our QB of the future, so that doesn't tell us anything.
The D had lots, LOTS, of quality stops against a good running game. They got gashed on occasion, but they were out there so long it's to be expected.
It took the Falcons 3-4 drives to get ANYTHING going.
Defense has some improvement to hang their hats on. Larry looks to at least be back in the fold as someone Herm is gonna depend on. Enough success to give him fire, enough falling short to give him more fire.


That said, Waters throwing a player into the runner to stop him was about the funniest thing I've ever seen on the gridiron.

[PastorMikH]

I really think we have some decent young talent, I just don't have any faith in this coaching staff to develop the talent nor implement a gameplan that will help the young talent we have to succeed.

[TrickyNicky]

Waters should be playing Ironman. Dude has made two awesome tackles after picks.

[Mr. Laz]

Waters should be playing Ironman. Dude has made two awesome tackles after picks.
move him to defense then because his tackling is sure better than his blocking nowadays

[alanm]

Based on the numbers (I missed almost all the first half), we couldn't have played any worse than we did in the first half of this game - I'm not sure anyone could. We dug a huge scoreboard hole, put the defense on the field way too long, and gave the offensive players every reason to give up.

Then, lo and behold, the guys come out and make a game of it in the second half. What that tells me is that we don't suck necessarily due to lack of talent as some peeps would have us believe. It's a factor, yes. But, we're losing games mainly because we have a coach that won't let the guys just relax and play from the first snap - not just when we're behind.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

FAX

Disclaimers: Sorry if repost.
Well Duh.

[damaticous]

Based on the numbers (I missed almost all the first half), we couldn't have played any worse than we did in the first half of this game - I'm not sure anyone could. We dug a huge scoreboard hole, put the defense on the field way too long, and gave the offensive players every reason to give up.

Then, lo and behold, the guys come out and make a game of it in the second half. What that tells me is that we don't suck necessarily due to lack of talent as some peeps would have us believe. It's a factor, yes. But, we're losing games mainly because we have a coach that won't let the guys just relax and play from the first snap - not just when we're behind.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

FAX

Disclaimers: Sorry if repost.

Coach......no....

COACHES .... YES!

Agreed though. It's not only our players that suck. it's the coaches too. Which, when it comes down to it, who picks the coaches.....it all comes from the top. snowball affect.

[JuicesFlowing]

We made ATL punt on their first 3 possessions. We lost the game right there, because Thigpen decided to be himself, and SUCK ASS. The O-Line didn't help either. People crushed LJ in the first half, yet in the second half they seemed not to hate him. ****ing asshole LJ haters. They always blame LJ *instead of* the bad o-line. Awesome.

[TrickyNicky]

We made ATL punt on their first 3 possessions. We lost the game right there, because Thigpen decided to be himself, and SUCK ASS. The O-Line didn't help either. People crushed LJ in the first half, yet in the second half they seemed not to hate him. ****ing asshole LJ haters. They always blame LJ for the bad o-line. Awesome.
There was a 2nd down play early, maybe the first or second drive, where LJ gave up and just dove on the ground without being touched. A guy was coming off his block but the lineman adjusted and recovered. Too late, Johnson had already dove. It was the most pathetic thing I've seen in a while.

[picasso]

I am impressed with Carr, he had 9 tackles.

I am not watching the game, was this simply because they were picking on him...or was he actually looking good?

He played good. Let the big one get past him and let a runner slip by for 40 yards but he was good other than that.

[Rain Man]

Waters should be playing Ironman. Dude has made two awesome tackles after picks.


If Devard Darling wants to stay in the starting lineup, he really needs to step it up on tackling. He half-played the runner on one of the interceptions, and it cost us about 25 yards. He needs to recognize that tackling ability is the main thing a wide receiver needs in Herm's system.

[DJ's left nut]

If Devard Darling wants to stay in the starting lineup, he really needs to step it up on tackling. He half-played the runner on one of the interceptions, and it cost us about 25 yards. He needs to recognize that tackling ability is the main thing a wide receiver needs in Herm's system.

You've also stumbled upon why McIntosh is still in the lineup.

Did you see him fall on that Fumble from Thigpen? The WR's need to be able to tackle, the O-lineman need to be able to recover fumbles.

These are critical components of Herm Edwards-run offenses.

[whoman69]

The team definitely lacks talent. They let the offensive line waste down to nothing and only brought in rookies and wannabes to replace them. They have only one receiver that anyone is scared of.

That said the scheme is the big reason we suck. Herm is still saying we need to get out of the mentality of scoring touchdowns. You still have to score more points than the other guy to win. He can't have the type team he wants and be content to have a three and out as long as we don't have a turnover.

The guy still thinks this is the 70s. The rules favor the offense so much, you can't depend on the defense to take over. The days of playing for field position are over.

[DaneMcCloud]

You DO know how dangerous it is to make pronouncements without watching the game, don't you?

Exactly. More than half of the people on this site proclaiming the Chiefs "suck" didn't even watch the ****ing game.

There was plenty to like today, starting with the majority of the draft choices made in the past two drafts. This team may not win many games this year but these guys are for the most part, playing very well and will only get better.

It's like people around here expected the Chiefs to go 6-10 with inexperienced youth at nearly every position. And those positions not filled with inexperienced youth or Pro Bowl players (Water, LJ, TG) are the guys that will be replace NEXT offseason.

[DaneMcCloud]

The team definitely lacks talent. They let the offensive line waste down to nothing and only brought in rookies and wannabes to replace them. They have only one receiver that anyone is scared of.

That said the scheme is the big reason we suck. Herm is still saying we need to get out of the mentality of scoring touchdowns. You still have to score more points than the other guy to win. He can't have the type team he wants and be content to have a three and out as long as we don't have a turnover.

The guy still thinks this is the 70s. The rules favor the offense so much, you can't depend on the defense to take over. The days of playing for field position are over.

How can you say with a straight face that the Chiefs didn't have a "modern" game plan? Did you even watch the ****ing game?

[Mecca]

Exactly. More than half of the people on this site proclaiming the Chiefs "suck" didn't even watch the ****ing game.

There was plenty to like today, starting with the majority of the draft choices made in the past two drafts. This team may not win many games this year but these guys are for the most part, playing very well and will only get better.

It's like people around here expected the Chiefs to go 6-10 with inexperienced youth at nearly every position. And those positions not filled with inexperienced youth or Pro Bowl players (Water, LJ, TG) are the guys that will be replace NEXT offseason.

People expect to be competitive with the other bottom feeders not get ass raped by them.

[DaneMcCloud]

People expect to be competitive with the other bottom feeders not get ass raped by them.

Well personally, I don't see the Falcons as "bottom feeders".

Michael Turner, Michael Jenkins, Roddy White, Sam Baker, Matt Ryan and on down the line - these aren't "sucky" players.

The Falcon's defense has always been tough. This team will win a minimum of 7 games this year, if not more.

That's not "bottom feeding" IMO.

[FAX]

You DO know how dangerous it is to make pronouncements without watching the game, don't you? ...

ROFL

I do. It hasn't stopped me, though.

FAX THE LIVING DANGEROUSLY

[Skip Towne]

ROFL

I do. It hasn't stopped me, though.

FAX THE LIVING DANGEROUSLY

:LOL:

[FAX]

The thing is that it may be possible to anticipate how things are going to unfold on the ol' gridiron this year without ever actually observing a single snap. Maybe even next year, too. That's kind of cool, when you think about it.

FAX

[HemiEd]

Good thread Mr. Fax, all a guy has to do is watch some other games, like I am doing right now. The Chiefs must have the most inept coaching staff ever assembled in pro sports.

Example, Herm did not challenge a fairly obvious TD call today, when they ruled LJ did not make it.
I guess he is saving them, maybe they are worth credits at the end of the season if you don't use them. This is just one of many, it goes on and on.

[FAX]

Good thread Mr. Fax, all a guy has to do is watch some other games, like I am doing right now. The Chiefs must have the most inept coaching staff ever assembled in pro sports.

Example, Herm did not challenge a fairly obvious TD call today, when they ruled LJ did not make it.
I guess he is saving them, maybe they are worth credits at the end of the season if you don't use them. This is just one of many, it goes on and on.

Thanks, Mr. HemiEd. It's tough being a trendsetter. Some peeps want to call you out just because you're different. Personally, even though it might not make it to the Hall of Classics, I thought my thread was pretty darn good under the circumstances.

To me, it took a lot for those guys to pick themselves up after such a disasterous first two quarters or so and start moving the football. I'm sure that Atlanta backed off some, but we didn't quit and that's important to note.

And, to your point, I'll bet you fifty bucks in casino cash that, if this same group of players were led by a solid head coach right now, they'd be very, very competitive. McInsuck or no McInsuck. I'm encouraged.

FAX

[Halfcan]

Carl and Herm will get it turned around-if not this year or next year-probably a year or two after that. We just need about 5 more top ten picks.

[shaneo69]

Based on the numbers (I missed almost all the first half), we couldn't have played any worse than we did in the first half of this game - I'm not sure anyone could. We dug a huge scoreboard hole, put the defense on the field way too long, and gave the offensive players every reason to give up.

Then, lo and behold, the guys come out and make a game of it in the second half. What that tells me is that we don't suck necessarily due to lack of talent as some peeps would have us believe. It's a factor, yes. But, we're losing games mainly because we have a coach that won't let the guys just relax and play from the first snap - not just when we're behind.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

FAX

Disclaimers: Sorry if repost.


Anytime you're down 24-0 at half, you can probably disregard anything good that happens in the 2nd half. It's human nature for the winning team to let up a bit when you're up by that many. Even if they weren't playing the "prevent" defense, they had that mentality.

Same thing as when a team plays like crap until they're mathematically eliminated from the playoffs in week 12, then go out and win 3 out of the last 4 to make you think they've got momentum going into the next season. Then the next season they go out and suck again.

[harpes]

Remember this is all part of the Master Plan.

[BigRock]

Anytime you're down 24-0 at half, you can probably disregard anything good that happens in the 2nd half.

It was 24-7 at the half. Then they immediately scored in the 3rd to make it 24-14. The Falcons weren't "letting up" in a ten point game.

[Moobs]

FAX, you've always been down on Jay Cutler as a potential pro, and pretty high on Croyle, so I'm going to have to go ahead and question your eye for 'talent'.

[Reerun_KC]

FAX, you've always been down on Jay Cutler as a potential pro, and pretty high on Croyle, so I'm going to have to go ahead and question your eye for 'talent'.
Fax, my I suggest?

http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/397201/2/istockphoto_397201_ice_pick_awl.jpg

[shaneo69]

It was 24-7 at the half. Then they immediately scored in the 3rd to make it 24-14. The Falcons weren't "letting up" in a ten point game.

Nevertheless, I'm not gonna give them any credit for "fighting" back to 24-14 when it started out 24-0 and ended with a 24-point loss.

I would say the Falcons let up when they got up by 24, and then when it got down to 10, they ramped it up again.

[FAX]

FAX, you've always been down on Jay Cutler as a potential pro, and pretty high on Croyle, so I'm going to have to go ahead and question your eye for 'talent'.

Well, let me put it this way, Mr. Moobs. Let's say you have two cows. You feed one really good hay and corn and fresh, pure water and stuff. You feed the other one raw sewage, dead fish, and battery acid. At the end of the day, which one do you think will result in better steaks?

Those two guys couldn't be in much different situations or handled more differently if one of them had been drafted by the Mars Maulers.

FAX

[Moobs]

Well, let me put it this way, Mr. Moobs. Let's say you have two cows. You feed one really good hay and corn and fresh, pure water and stuff. You feed the other one raw sewage, dead fish, and battery acid. At the end of the day, which one do you think will result in better steaks?

Those two guys couldn't be in much different situations or handled more differently if one of them had been drafted by the Mars Maulers.

FAX

They were both drafted by head coaches that are still with the team. We both knew what surrounded them now, as we do now.

[FAX]

They were both drafted by head coaches that are still with the team. We both knew what surrounded them now, as we do now.

ROFL

Ah ... so you're saying that, before I expressed my views about their respective talents, I should have entered a trance and seen the future two years later rather than basing my opinions on watching them perform in college. Well, I'm sorry, but no dice. Sometimes you don't wake back up from those trance things.

Nonetheless, I'm sure that Hochuli would agree with the implication in your statements.

FAX

[Moobs]

ROFL

Ah ... so you're saying that, before I expressed my views about their respective talents, I should have entered a trance and seen the future two years later rather than basing my opinions on watching them perform in college. Well, I'm sorry, but no dice. Sometimes you don't wake back up from those trance things.

Nonetheless, I'm sure that Hochuli would agree with the implication in your statements.

FAX

Up to this point, you couldn't have missed more on both quarterbacks. But to your defense, you said they've been in two entirely different situations. You knew Herm was Croyle's coach, and Shanny was Cutler's coach when they were drafted, so this shouldn't be a surprise to you.

As for the Hochuli thing, well, have fun watching your team make a run at 0-16. You'll get to see how wrong you were about Cutler in about a week.

[PhillyChiefFan]

thou shalt not question FAX.

[Dayze]

Well, let me put it this way, Mr. Moobs. Let's say you have two cows. You feed one really good hay and corn and fresh, pure water and stuff. You feed the other one raw sewage, dead fish, and battery acid. At the end of the day, which one do you think will result in better steaks?

Those two guys couldn't be in much different situations or handled more differently if one of them had been drafted by the Mars Maulers.

FAX

Mr. Fax, you have a great way of putting things. you are a scholar and a gentleman.