Orchestrated offensive ineptitude?

[aturnis]

Lately I've been thinking. I know it's a mistake, but...what do you do?

I've been giving a little more weight to the idea that the coaches, might be progressing the offensive playbook slowly as they said they would back in training camp. I know Herm said something about keeping it simple, and when they get some things down, they would add a little more, then a little more, and so forth.

I think we may have taken the preseason playcalling for granted. Maybe we expect since they did this a bit in the preseason that they would have evolved past their current state.

Maybe though, they were just getting an idea of what they could run right now, what they needed to work on, and how far they had to go before they could add other dimensions to their offensive arsenal.

Then, after the preseason, maybe they said...W"ell, they've sucked pretty bad, looks like instead of starting out with 50% of the playbook, we'll start with maybe 10, and build on that."

This might help explain the even shorter than usual leash on Brodie in game one, then in games since adding a little more length to the passing game leash in weeks since, w/ lesser QB's. It might also lend understanding to why they finally started running off tackle w/ LJ in week 3, when we all know that has been a staple in not only his game, but the game of the Kansas City Chiefs for years. Maybe the coaches didn't think the "new" line was ready for all that just yet.

Is this why they blindly ran LJ into brick walls for 2 straight weeks? By chance, could we see a full array of plays and play calling by the end of the season? And if we do, might the LJ "run it up the butt" plays actually be effective? That is, with the defense not being sure if they will run it "up the butt", or outside, or to the left, or maybe throw it, or maybe even throw it further?

It would make sense. Start off slow in a season when winning isn't expected anyways. Play, learn, grow, and set themselves up for a good draft pick in the process. Meanwhile slowly installing the teams identity week to week and make a run at finishing the season strong and maybe winning a few games building the teams confidence.

I know from being a Chiefs fan, that this thinking is just hopeful and setting ones self up for disappointment. That is why I think of these things and now instead of believing in them, I humor myself with them. I know I will be let down soon enough and you will too!

How bout it though...any chance this team is not THAT inept?

[Hammock Parties]

I've been thinking the same thing. If you try to rationalize the offensive progression we've seen this year you'll go insane. It's best just to watch it unfold and try not to explain. Herm's mind is a tangled weave. Or maybe this is all Gailey and it's how he does things.

[Fish]

Maybe they're just stupid.

These guys get paid a shit ton of money to do what they do. To think that this team of "professionals" couldn't handle a full playbook is sad and embarrassing....

Benefit of the doubt is used up....

[milkman]

Maybe they're just stupid.

These guys get paid a shit ton of money to do what they do. To think that this team of "professionals" couldn't handle a full playbook is sad and embarrassing....

Benefit of the doubt is used up....

And given that this playcalling is exactly the same palycalling we saw all of last season, even though we not only scrapped the OC, but the old playbook, even more reason to give no benefit of doubt.

[ArrowheadHawk]

This thread is why I love being a Chiefs fan. Gotta build hope somehow or you might as well root for a different team.

[Reerun_KC]

And given that this playcalling is exactly the same palycalling we saw all of last season, even though we not only scrapped the OC, but the old playbook, even more reason to give no benefit of doubt.
makes you wonder who is running the "circus" now...

I dont think there is enough crows on this planet to serve up Herm properly.... Everytime Herm opens his "cock holster" just ends up being http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies2/owned.gif

[FAX]

That's the best theory I've heard so far, Mr. aturnis. It makes a lot of sense.

Except for one thing: We're running essentially the same offense we ran last year and the year prior.

FAX

[Hammock Parties]

That's the best theory I've heard so far, Mr. aturnis. It makes a lot of sense.

Except for one thing: We're running essentially the same offense we ran last year and the year prior.

FAX

I honestly don't think you can say that any more.

[TrickyNicky]

If the past 3 weeks was 10% I think we may be up to %12-15 with Huard back in.

Protecting Brodie by getting into known passing downs on long yardage is genius. What better way to see if your young guy has what it takes than to have him do a 5 step drop with barely 2 seconds of protection. No wonder he has checkdown-itis, and rockets touch passes.

[aturnis]

Herm's mind is a tangled weave.

I think you mean tumble weed.

[aturnis]

Maybe they're just stupid.

These guys get paid a shit ton of money to do what they do. To think that this team of "professionals" couldn't handle a full playbook is sad and embarrassing....

Benefit of the doubt is used up....


Yeah, but they were "dumbing it down" and all for the mass amounts of young players, first year starters, and first year starters at new positions we have.

[aturnis]

This thread is why I love being a Chiefs fan. Gotta build hope somehow or you might as well root for a different team.

I never understood masochist's. Explain to me why you love being tortured?

[aturnis]

That's the best theory I've heard so far, Mr. aturnis. It makes a lot of sense.

Except for one thing: We're running essentially the same offense we ran last year and the year prior.

FAX

Yeah, maybe it has a tad of the "handcuff" stink too. If you remember they never said they changed the entire offense. Just scaled it down and simplified it. Got rid of unnecessary motions and such. Many players have said it's basically a lot of the same offense, with new terminology.

[ArrowheadHawk]

I never understood masochist's. Explain to me why you love being tortured?
With a strong mind. And I have a KU national championship to tie me over.

[Fish]

Yeah, but they were "dumbing it down" and all for the mass amounts of young players, first year starters, and first year starters at new positions we have.

I understand trying to keep it simple for young players. I'm struggling with the stubborn lack of variety and creativity.

At this point, we could take our 15 plays and write each down on a piece of paper, and pull them out of a hat and come up with a better game plan that what we had last game.

[L.A. Chieffan]

WTF

[Fishpicker]

I've heard all of this before, I just remembered WHERE i heard it from

Inheriting the Cleveland Indians baseball team from her late husband, covetous ex-showgirl Margaret Whitton wants to move the franchise to Miami, primarily to take advantage of the many personal perks she's been promised by that city. But Cleveland won't yield its lease on the Indians unless the year's attendance falls below 800,000. Figuring that chances for this are already good given Cleveland's inability to win a pennant, Whitton tries to make doubly certain that the fans won't turn out by ordering the club manager to put together the worst team possible. The new players include hasbeen Tom Berenger, blind-as-a-bat pitcher Charlie Sheen, self-protective free agent Corbin Bernsen, and Wesley Snipes, who is constitutionally incapable of hitting straight. Surprisingly, this band of misfits begins winning games, so Whitton decides to break their spirit by forcing them to fly from game to game in a World War II prop plane, assigning them a rickety old bus for road games, and divesting them of their precious whirlpool. Still, the team's talent and esprit de corps grows, especially after "Wild Thing" Sheen dons a pair of glasses and is able to see where he's lobbing his 100-mile-an-hour pitches. Once the players are told that Whitton plans to dump them all whether they win the pennant or not, the team defiantly adopts an "us against the you-know-what" attitude. In a nailbiting 20 minute climax, the Indians face down their hated Yankee rivals in the pennant playoff game. The film's conclusion ties up several loose plot ends, notably the off-and-on romance between the irresponsible Berenger and his "ex" Rene Russo. Though set in Cleveland, Major League was filmed virtually in its entirety in Milwaukee, with the Brewers' play-by-play announcer Bob Uecker giving a terrific performance as the Indians' drink-besotted color commentator. The film represented not only the fictional comeback of the Cleveland Indians, but the actual comeback of producer/director David S. Ward, who'd been in a professional slump for several years. Though containing few surprises, Major League was a box-office smash, inspiring a 1992 sequel, inventively titled Major League II. ~ Hal Erickson, All Movie Guide

[Otter]

This thread is why I love being a Chiefs fan. Gotta build hope somehow or you might as well root for a different team.

Could you explain what you mean by this? I'm not doubting you or being a smart ass, I just don't get it.

Needing to rationalize their stupidity in an attempt to make sense out of their obvious poor decision making is one of the reasons I hate this team more and more every year.

Maybe you can help me give a shit again.

[KCJohnny]

And given that this playcalling is exactly the same palycalling we saw all of last season, even though we not only scrapped the OC, but the old playbook, even more reason to give no benefit of doubt.

This playbook has nothing in common with the Al Saunders/Mike Solari playbook.
The play selection may look similar at times but this is a whole different look and much, much simpler than the previous regime.

[KCJohnny]

That's the best theory I've heard so far, Mr. aturnis. It makes a lot of sense.

Except for one thing: We're running essentially the same offense we ran last year and the year prior.

FAX

No we are not. That was a vertical, seam exploitation, motion/shift offense that used H backs and end arounds. There were some 7 step drops and lots of deep comeback routes.

This is a very, very simple vanilla offense that was supposed to feature sprint outs, bootlegs and traps/cutback rushing.

The common denominator here: inexperience at the QB position and a HC who truncates the playbook in order to keep it basic and manageable. Not only that but musical QBs isn't exactly the way to build momentum, an identity or a field leader. The team is a bit confused.

Huard will give the team its best chace to compete now - and clearly the franchise is desperate for a win, even if Joe Montana has to come back to lead it.

Like others, I was open-minded about loading the team up with kids and draft picks and eschewing the FA market, but something was telling me all along that that is a long shot for a long time. A few mid-career FAs could definitely have helped this team not get plowed every Sunday and maybe taste a W now and then.

[aturnis]

W's now and then are pointless. I'm willing to endure loss after loss now, if it mean enduring the occasional loss later.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

So does that mean that next week we bring in a Quarterback that can actually hit the broad side of a barn ?

[Goapics1]

Some of this rationalization BS just cracks me up.

[CoMoChief]

Some of this rationalization BS just cracks me up.

yeah no kidding.

keep shitting yourself folks!!!!

[Micjones]

No we are not. That was a vertical, seam exploitation, motion/shift offense that used H backs and end arounds. There were some 7 step drops and lots of deep comeback routes.

This is a very, very simple vanilla offense that was supposed to feature sprint outs, bootlegs and traps/cutback rushing.

The common denominator here: inexperience at the QB position and a HC who truncates the playbook in order to keep it basic and manageable. Not only that but musical QBs isn't exactly the way to build momentum, an identity or a field leader. The team is a bit confused.

Huard will give the team its best chace to compete now - and clearly the franchise is desperate for a win, even if Joe Montana has to come back to lead it.

Like others, I was open-minded about loading the team up with kids and draft picks and eschewing the FA market, but something was telling me all along that that is a long shot for a long time. A few mid-career FAs could definitely have helped this team not get plowed every Sunday and maybe taste a W now and then.

A few FA signings would've gone a long way to stabilizing this rebuilding effort. I said that throughout the early part of the Spring. A few inexpensive young guys would've given us a broader foundation to build from. Some O-Line help and a legitimate #2. Along with a solid #3 DE.

[KCTitus]

Heard this theory before...it was the same crap that was trotted out when Marty and his teams would crap the bed on offense year after year.

Rebuilding doesnt mean that the offense has to look like the 2003 Chiefs, just that there is some improvement. So far no improvement and KC's in year 2 of its rebuilding. Typically by year two you're seeing some success, but instead KC's riding a 12 game losing streak.

I think for all intents and purposes, KC's actually in year 1 of its rebuild and they're nowhere close to where they want to be. 2010 is a very long way away....I have no faith that Herm can do it.

[Hammock Parties]

No improvement?

Did anyone watch the game last week?

WE PUT UP 300 YARDS ON THE ROAD WITH TYLER ****ING THIGPEN AT QUARTERBACK.

That's definitely improvement.

[triple]

they do not trust young players to do anything. they kept Sams because they didn't want inexperience in a kick returning, didn't they? and they go to this prehistoric playbook when the QB is not Huard.

they are deathly afraid someone will make a mistake, but why? mistakes end drives early, which we are already doing. a 3 and out is no worse than getting a first or two and then turning the ball over.

herm thinks you win the game by not taking risks so as to turn the ball over. that helps, but it doesn't put points on the board.

[KCTitus]

No improvement?

Did anyone watch the game last week?

WE PUT UP 300 YARDS ON THE ROAD WITH TYLER ****ING THIGPEN AT QUARTERBACK.

That's definitely improvement.

Against?

[Hammock Parties]

Why does it matter who it came against? We're basically a ****ing expansion team. We had 81 yards of offense in THREE QUARTERS the week prior.

[SAUTO]

It might also lend understanding to why they finally started running off tackle w/ LJ in week 3, when we all know that has been a staple in not only his game, but the game of the Kansas City Chiefs for years. Maybe the coaches didn't think the "new" line was ready for all that just yet

but but ask claythan there are huge fundamental differences in what we did with lj last week and what we did running the ball in the past. actually i said the same thing as you and that asshole tried to tell me that we've never ran those type of plays beforeROFL

[Hammock Parties]

but but ask claythan there are huge fundamental differences in what we did with lj last week and what we did running the ball in the past. actually i said the same thing as you and that asshole tried to tell me that we've never ran those type of plays beforeROFL

Dude, seriously. Just pop in a tape and you'll see the difference. The old KC sweep went far wider toward the sidelines. The downhill toss doesn't target a specific area of the field. Larry is free to cut it back inside if that's where the hole is.

[SAUTO]

so was priest he cut a lot of runs back too, i was basically saying the same thing as aturnis and you bashed me but you dont say anything to him? you are stupid and a pussy you will call me on it but not someone who has more posts lol

[Hammock Parties]

so was priest he cut a lot of runs back too, i was basically saying the same thing as aturnis and you bashed me but you dont say anything to him? you are stupid

Did I bash you? I said you were mistaken. I think there's a difference.

I doubt we even ran the downhill toss with Priest ONCE. It wasn't a staple of the old offense.

[SAUTO]

oh yeah dumbass i know that there is a difference, but he does so much better when he has the opportunity to get a couple of steps head start that we should have been calling those types of plays all along

[Hammock Parties]

I apologize, Jason.

[SAUTO]

Did I bash you? I said you were mistaken. I think there's a difference.

I doubt we even ran the downhill toss with Priest ONCE. It wasn't a staple of the old offense.

no you argued about it with me. i was saying that we ran that EXACT TYPE of play in the past. you know runs to the outside. maybe not the exact play but you know they're related "downhill toss" toss sweep. look similar?

[SAUTO]

I apologize, Jason.

ok then claythan i can see youre side but you of all people should see mine

[Mr. Laz]

gak ... come on, you grasping


an offense too simple is GOING TO SUCK unless you have superior talent.

you need to go the exact opposite of what your suggesting


if your guys are new and weak then you need to use MORE offensive to use the element of surprise to give them a better chance.

going into a shell just makes a shaky offensive lines job harder.

[Hammock Parties]

no you argued about it with me. i was saying that we ran that EXACT TYPE of play in the past. you know runs to the outside. maybe not the exact play but you know they're related "downhill toss" toss sweep. look similar?

Let's just agree to disagree. It's not important.

[SAUTO]

gak ... come on, you grasping


an offense too simple is GOING TO SUCK unless you have superior talent.

you need to go the exact opposite of what your suggesting


if your guys are new and weak then you need to use MORE offensive to use the element of surprise to give them a better chance.

going into a shell just makes a shaky offensive lines job harder.

you know i really agree with this. we need to get the opposing defenses out of their gameplan and shake shit up

[SAUTO]

Let's just agree to disagree. It's not important.
post #38

[Skip Towne]

post #38

I'm not going to talk to you till you get more posts.......n00b.

[aturnis]

gak ... come on, you grasping


an offense too simple is GOING TO SUCK unless you have superior talent.

you need to go the exact opposite of what your suggesting


if your guys are new and weak then you need to use MORE offensive to use the element of surprise to give them a better chance.

going into a shell just makes a shaky offensive lines job harder.

I really don't think the point is success though. I think Herm says we are trying to win b/c...who wouldn't call for his head if we weren't trying to win? It'd be like you playing darts against a world champion dart thrower. Of course you are trying to win, you are playing the game, but you aren't really TRYING to win, b/c you know you probably won't, and in this case, there are other important things.

We all know they scaled it all back, to start from scratch. Fundamentals, basics, reinventing the wheel type shit. I'm fairly sure the percentage of the playbook we are working with is quite small.

Like I said in the thread starter, I know it's all wishful thinking. I'm not a homer, I'm not naive. I don't expect to win but 0-3 games this year, 3 if we are VERY lucky. I expected more before the season started(4-6 if we were lucky), but now that I've seen the product, I'm not buying. Just putting some conspiracy theory type chatter out there. Something to discuss and ruffle some feathers. There's been a lack of anything interesting to talk about lately. Only so much QB/O'line talk to be had before it's all been said.

[KCJohnny]

A few FA signings would've gone a long way to stabilizing this rebuilding effort. I said that throughout the early part of the Spring. A few inexpensive young guys would've given us a broader foundation to build from. Some O-Line help and a legitimate #2. Along with a solid #3 DE.

:clap:

[2112]

And given that this playcalling is exactly the same palycalling we saw all of last season, even though we not only scrapped the OC, but the old playbook, even more reason to give no benefit of doubt.

Who is the common denominator when it comes to this kind of asinine play calling regardless of who the offensive coordinator is?

[milkman]

This playbook has nothing in common with the Al Saunders/Mike Solari playbook.
The play selection may look similar at times but this is a whole different look and much, much simpler than the previous regime.

Who gives a rat's ass if the playbook is different?
The playcalling is still the same.

RRPP.

[milkman]

Who is the common denominator when it comes to this kind of asinine play calling regardless of who the offensive coordinator is?

(raising hand excitedly)

I KNOW!
I KNOW!

[whoman69]

Dumbing it down is never a good thing. We are not challenging our team to be better. Herm is enabling ineptitude.

[KCJohnny]

Who gives a rat's ass if the playbook is different?
The playcalling is still the same.

RRPP.

Its week 3 and we've played 4 QBs. Calm down and drink some milk.

[milkman]

Its week 3 and we've played 4 QBs. Calm down and drink some milk.

Maybe, just maybe, if we didn't continually put our QBs in known passing situations behind the sieve we call an O-Line, we wouldn't have gone through 3 QBs.

[KCJohnny]

We might be 2-10 by week 12, but we'll all see progress, however modest.

[whoman69]

I think you mean tumble weed.

I think you mean its like he's smoking weed.

[whoman69]

We might be 2-10 by week 12, but we'll all see progress, however modest.

From total ineptitude you need more than modest progress.

[chiefsngop]

I've come up with a different theory :

The playcalling in the PS Chicago game bothered Herm's Irritable Bowel Syndrome. He actually shat his pants a little bit.

So Chan was forced to calm things down to avoid further embarassing moments for Herm.

[Hammock Parties]

I think there may be some truth to this. Sunday we started running counters for the first time. We ran the shit out of screens, unsuccessfully, but it does appear we are slowly expanding the playbook each week.

By Week 17 we'll be quite diverse, hopefully.

["Bob" Dobbs]

It really does feel like Herm is treating this season as a 20 game preseason for 2009 (as someone mentioned in a thread somewhere). We have no prayer for any kind of post season in 08 anyway, so why not treat it like a runup to 09?

[aturnis]

The offense is indeed growing. Not only the playbook, but the players as well. The Oline is becoming more cohesive, but I still believe Taylor would better solidify the offensive line.