Packers Also offered a 3rd Rounder

[Bill Lundberg]

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=806267

Bid to land Gonzalez falls short
Chiefs were willing to deal star tight end for second-round pick
By BOB McGINN
bmcginn@journalsentinel.com
Posted: Oct. 15, 2008
Green Bay - The Green Bay Packers could have acquired tight end Tony Gonzalez from the Kansas City Chiefs on Tuesday but they refused to part with a second-round draft choice.

A source familiar with negotiations told the Journal Sentinel that Chiefs President Carl Peterson ultimately decided to retain Gonzalez after turning down the best offer from Green Bay, which was a third-round selection. The source said Peterson wanted a second-rounder to make the deal.

The decision by general manager Ted Thompson not to send the second-round pick to Kansas City was made just minutes before the National Football League trading deadline of 3 p.m.

During a day of talks between Green Bay and Kansas City, the Packers increased their compensation offer several times. A source said Gonzalez had told the Chiefs that he would accept a trade to the Packers, and planned to play three more seasons.

This was another example of Thompson’s unwillingness to pull the trigger on a blockbuster trade to obtain another weapon on offense.
In 2006, Thompson had the chance to send a high draft choice to San Diego Chargers for running back Michael Turner.

A year later, Thompson didn’t push hard enough to get wide receiver Randy Moss under contract and watched the New England Patriots acquire him from the Oakland Raiders for a fourth-round selection.

Adam Schefter of the NFL Network reported that Philadelphia, the New York Giants and Buffalo also were negotiating with the Chiefs. He reported that one team offered a third-round pick, another team offered a fourth-round pick and another team offered an unidentified choice plus a player.

An NFL source told the Journal Sentinel that the Bills weren’t a factor because Gonzalez didn’t want to play for them.

According to the source, Gonzalez was livid that the rebuilding Chiefs (1-4), for whom he has caught tight-end record totals of 841 passes for 10,075 yards and 68 touchdowns, refused to let him go for a third-round pick.

Gonzalez, who made the Pro Bowl for a record ninth straight time last season, was highly regarded by coach Mike McCarthy and several members of his staff in Green Bay.

McCarthy coached quarterbacks in Kansas City in 1997 and ’98, Gonzalez’s first two seasons there. Several of his coaches, including Tom Clements, Mike Stock, Carl Hairston and Kurt Schottenheimer, also spent time in Kansas City during Gonzalez’s career, as did vice president Russ Ball and personnel director John Schneider.

As it stands now, the Packers will have their seven choices in the 2009 draft plus a sixth-round pick from New Orleans and no worse than a fourth-round pick from the New York Jets in the trade for Brett Favre.

The compensation for Favre reportedly will increase to a third if Favre plays at least 50% of the snaps, and to a second if he plays at least 70% and the Jets reach the playoffs.

If the trade with Green Bay had been consummated, the Packers would have picked up the final 3½ years of Gonzalez’s contract, or a total amount of $19.397 million.

This year, Green Bay would have had to pay 11/17ths of his guaranteed $1 million base salary, or $647,059. His contract included base salaries of $4 million in 2009 (all guaranteed), $4.5 million in 2010 ($1.75 million guaranteed) and $5.75 million in 2011, and roster bonuses of $500,000 in ’09, $2 million in ’10 and $2 million in ’11.

The Packers currently stand $20.05 million beneath the salary cap, a total exceeded by only Tampa Bay and Kansas City among the 32 teams.

By adding Gonzalez, the Packers’ weapons on offense would have compared favorably with any team in the NFL. His ability to make clutch possession catches and stretch the field was evident last season in Week 8, when he caught 10 passes for 109 yards and one touchdown against Green Bay.

Gonzalez recently requested a trade from the Chiefs because he wanted the chance to play for a playoff contender.

“I’m winding down in my career and I’m thinking this is not what I signed on for last year when I redid my deal,” Gonzalez said in August. “I haven’t even won a playoff game. You can look back and say you had a pretty good career, but I want to be able to say I went to the playoffs, I won some playoff games and I went to the Super Bowl.”

The Packers signed tight end Donald Lee to a four-year, $11.88 million deal last November when he was an integral part of their passing game. But Lee has been less involved with Aaron Rodgers at quarterback.

Tory Humphrey is the No. 2 tight end and rookie Jermichael Finley, a third-round draft choice, is No. 3. Finley has been slow to develop and doesn’t have a reception.

Under Thompson, the Packers have drafted eight players in the second round. The list include Nick Collins, Terrence Murphy, Daryn Colledge, Greg Jennings, Brandon Jackson, Jordy Nelson, Brian Brohm and Pat Lee.

Tom Silverstein of the Journal Sentinel staff contributed to this report.

[HC_Chief]

Carl needs to be shot.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I can't help but think that if Tony hadn't waited until Week 3 of the regular season to request this trade, that something might have happened.

[Frazod]

I can't help but think that if Tony hadn't waited until Week 3 of the regular season to request this trade, that something might have happened.

Sorry, I don't buy that for a second. This was just Carl being Carl.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Sorry, I don't buy that for a second. This was just Carl being Carl.

Don't get me wrong, Tim. Carl fucked up by not taking the 3rd, IMO.

I'm just wondering if the Packers (especially) had been given more time to contemplate this deal, would they have coughed up that 2nd round pick?

The tone of the article implies they were at least considering it.

[Demonpenz]

damn it would be nice to see Rogers a young qb worth with a vet like toney

[FAX]

According to this article, either Buffalo or the Giants offered a fourth - not a third. That is, if I'm reading this correctly. If the Giants did actually offer a third, it would be the equivalent of a fourth, anyhow. There's far too much misinformation afoot on this deal to know what to think about it.

Gonzo was correct not to shuffle off to Buffalo, though. That's like playing in Antarctica. He would freeze off his tonys.

FAX

[KCrockaholic]

Tony didnt deserve this

[Frazod]

It seems pretty clear that for Tony the last straw was being dissed by the team during the Denver game. Would a pass have been riskier than a run up the gut? Sure. But WHO CARES? It's not like we were playing for a first round bye here. I think if he gets that pass and his three yards, none of this shit ever would have ever happened in the first place.

[philfree]

It seems pretty clear that for Tony the last straw was being dissed by the team during the Denver game. Would a pass have been riskier than a run up the gut? Sure. But WHO CARES? It's not like we were playing for a first round bye here. I think if he gets that pass and his three yards, none of this shit ever would have ever happened in the first place.

I agree 100%.

Tony is a great player who is playing out his hall of fame career on the rebuilding Chiefs. He's given his all his whole career. For one moment Herm could have given a little back to show his appreciation for what Tony is doing on the POS team. Herm couldn't do that though and Tony felt jilted so he asked to be traded. :shake:Too bad! So sad!

PhilFree:arrow:

[CoMoChief]

FUCK THIS TEAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LMAO

[dirk digler]

I can't help but think that if Tony hadn't waited until Week 3 of the regular season to request this trade, that something might have happened.

Did you just read that Tony said he would play 3 more years?

[StcChief]

It seems pretty clear that for Tony the last straw was being dissed by the team during the Denver game. Would a pass have been riskier than a run up the gut? Sure. But WHO CARES? It's not like we were playing for a first round bye here. I think if he gets that pass and his three yards, none of this shit ever would have ever happened in the first place.yep.... that likely was the last straw in TG's mind....

an Off-season move will surely happen. Hope TG gets thru season un-injured

[OnTheWarpath15]

Did you just read that Tony said he would play 3 more years?

PLANNED to play 3 more years. For the Packers. Not the Chiefs.

I PLAN on having my degree by the end of 2009. But I'm not guaranteeing it, because life happens, and I reserve the right to change my mind.

I didn't see anywhere in that article that he said he'd guarantee his new team he'd play 3 more years.

It's a moot point anyway, seeing as how he wasn't traded.

[Sure-Oz]

Chiefs lose either way...

[HemiEd]

I agree 100%.

Tony is a great player who is playing out his hall of fame career on the rebuilding Chiefs. He's given his all his whole career. For one moment Herm could have given a little back to show his appreciation for what Tony is doing on the POS team. Herm couldn't do that though and Tony felt jilted so he asked to be traded. :shake:Too bad! So sad!

PhilFree:arrow:

Herm is not a Chief at heart, period.

[Frankie]

McCarthy coached quarterbacks in Kansas City in 1997 and ’98, Gonzalez’s first two seasons there. Several of his coaches, including Tom Clements, Mike Stock, Carl Hairston and Kurt Schottenheimer, also spent time in Kansas City during Gonzalez’s career.

MIKE STOCK?!!!......... KURT F*****G SCHOTTENHEIMER?!!!..... How is it they are still employed by the NFL?!

[FAX]

Herm is not a Chief at heart, period.

Exactly so. He's a Buc or a Jet or some kind of demonic being sent here from Hell to drive us completely insane to the point we'd be willing to sell our souls for Marty to come back.

FAX

[Frankie]

A source familiar with negotiations told the Journal Sentinel that Chiefs President Carl Peterson ultimately decided to retain Gonzalez after turning down the best offer from Green Bay, which was a third-round selection. The source said Peterson wanted a second-rounder to make the deal.

The decision by general manager Ted Thompson not to send the second-round pick to Kansas City was made just minutes before the National Football League trading deadline of 3 p.m.

I am with Carl on this one. A 9 year pro-bowl TE with a good 3 years in his tank is worth at least a late 2nd.

[milkman]

I am with Carl on this one. A 9 year pro-bowl TE with a good 3 years in his tank is worth at least a late 2nd.

And the NFL teams interested just essentially told you and Carl that you must be fucking high.

[ChiefsCountry]

And Tony vetos going someplace.......funny how that is always missing from these articles.

[triple]

And Tony vetos going someplace.......funny how that is always missing from these articles.

A source said Gonzalez had told the Chiefs that he would accept a trade to the Packers, and planned to play three more seasons.

[PastorMikH]

If Tony is willing to play 3 more years as he told the Packers, why not be patient here? Unless he has absolutely no faith in Herm's plan that is. 2011 should be more than enough time for this groupl of players to mature and make a run.

[HemiEd]

Exactly so. He's a Buc or a Jet or some kind of demonic being sent here from Hell to drive us completely insane to the point we'd be willing to sell our souls for Marty to come back.

FAX

Kind of scary when you put it that way. :spock:

[HC_Chief]

If Tony is willing to play 3 more years as he told the Packers, why not be patient here? Unless he has absolutely no faith in Herm's plan that is. 2011 should be more than enough time for this groupl of players to mature and make a run.

Packers have a QB, a semi-competent defense, and a coaching staff/front office not suffering from a sever case of rectal-cranial inversion.

[philfree]

And the NFL teams interested just essentially told you and Carl that you must be ****ing high.

I think they said they're cheap ass mo fo's and they'd love to have Gonzo but only if they can steal him.

PhilFree:arrow:

[HemiEd]

Unless he has absolutely no faith in Herm's plan that is.

It sounds like he is not the only one sour on Herm and his "plan." It has been my experience, you need to earn the respect of your men, to get them to follow you and give unconditional commitment.

Do you really think Herm has earned ANYONE'S respect, enough to follow him?

Sure the rookies and marginal players are going to, they have to in order to keep a spot in the NFL.

But the Stars? Nope, it started with Trent Green, he saw through Herm right away. Tony has basically had his fill of Herm the way I see it.
Is Lj the same way?

[philfree]

If Tony is willing to play 3 more years as he told the Packers, why not be patient here? Unless he has absolutely no faith in Herm's plan that is. 2011 should be more than enough time for this groupl of players to mature and make a run.

It's trade Tony in the offseason or put the Chiefs in a situation to be competetive next year. To do that we have to bring in a few free agents and a free agent QB. Things I think we should do next year anyway IMO. I'm not saying abandon the rebuild but we gotta have a QB and we gotta have a line to block for him. We can still draft a QB though.

PhilFree:arrow:

[PastorMikH]

It sounds like he is not the only one sour on Herm and his "plan." It has been my experience, you need to earn the respect of your men, to get them to follow you and give unconditional commitment.

Do you really think Herm has earned ANYONE'S respect, enough to follow him?

Sure the rookies and marginal players are going to, they have to in order to keep a spot in the NFL.

But the Stars? Nope, it started with Trent Green, he saw through Herm right away. Tony has basically had his fill of Herm the way I see it.
Is Lj the same way?


No, I don't think Herm has any of the veteran respect outside of maybe Waters.

I thought it was pretty clear yesterday in the interview the way Herm reacted when asked about what it says about the organization when TG asks to be traded. He got really defensive. There is unrest between players and Herm or he wouldn't have acted that way.

Also, on the press conference yesterday, what does it say about a HC that doesn't at least communicate with his best players? He hasn't talked with LJ about the off-the-field problems that might affect him playing? He hasn't talked with Tony about Tony's wanting to be traded?


Herm's more lost than Gunther was as HC.

[milkman]

I think they said they're cheap ass mo fo's and they'd love to have Gonzo but only if they can steal him.

PhilFree:arrow:

No.

It was fair market value.

[Bowser]

Jesus. This organization is 1990's Cardinals bad.

[philfree]

No.

It was fair market value.

I'm not sure we agree about that. The 22nd pick or worse in the 3rd round? I'm guessing where the Pack will pick in the 2009 draft but I can't be far off. Maybe the top five in the 3rd round would have been okay. Tony is still a great player as he showed in the Denver game when he made that great catch for a TD. Looking at what Dallas gave for Williams I think a 2nd was more fair for the Chiefs. That said I'm glad Tony is still a Chief for now.

PhilFree:arrow:

[HemiEd]

No, I don't think Herm has any of the veteran respect outside of maybe Waters.

I thought it was pretty clear yesterday in the interview the way Herm reacted when asked about what it says about the organization when TG asks to be traded. He got really defensive. There is unrest between players and Herm or he wouldn't have acted that way.

Also, on the press conference yesterday, what does it say about a HC that doesn't at least communicate with his best players? He hasn't talked with LJ about the off-the-field problems that might affect him playing? He hasn't talked with Tony about Tony's wanting to be traded?


Herm's more lost than Gunther was as HC.
I agree 100%, in fact the Gunther statement is perfect. Herm makes Gunther look like a genius.

The good news, there no longer is management unity, I love that. It is only a matter of time, before this house of cards has to come down. It bothered me when they appeared united behind this retart.

The wild card is Clark, how will he handle it. I wish we knew more about him and what type of person he is, maybe we would have some idea.

[milkman]

I'm not sure we agree about that. The 22nd pick or worse in the 3rd round? I'm guessing where the Pack will pick in the 2009 draft but I can't be far off. Maybe the top five in the 3rd round would have been okay. Tony is still a great player as he showed in the Denver game when he made that great catch for a TD. Looking at what Dallas gave for Williams I think a 2nd was more fair for the Chiefs. That said I'm glad Tony is still a Chief for now.

PhilFree:arrow:

The fact that several teams were interested in Tony, but none offered more than a third round pick established his value at third round.

Roy Williams is young WR with potentailly a number of great years ahead of him, but the Cowboys did overpay.

But a WR has a higher value in this league.

[Frankie]

And the NFL teams interested just essentially told you and Carl that you must be ****ing high.

Evidently GB came real close. Carl and I weren't that far off.

[philfree]

The fact that several teams were interested in Tony, but none offered more than a third round pick established his value at third round.

Roy Williams is young WR with potentailly a number of great years ahead of him, but the Cowboys did overpay.

But a WR has a higher value in this league.

Tony is worth more than that to the Chiefs. Also once on a different team, a good team, his performance would far exceed that of a third round pick. He still performs at the highest level. As far as Williams is concerned WRs do hold more value then TEs in general, however there is a point where the quality of the players in question make a difference. Tony is a better player then Williams and he will be for a couple more years and maybe longer than that even. A 2nd round pick as compared to what Williams was traded for is plenty of difference in compensation between a great TE and a so so WR with some untapped potential. Well IMO.

PhilFree:arrow:

[dirk digler]

PLANNED to play 3 more years. For the Packers. Not the Chiefs.

I PLAN on having my degree by the end of 2009. But I'm not guaranteeing it, because life happens, and I reserve the right to change my mind.

I didn't see anywhere in that article that he said he'd guarantee his new team he'd play 3 more years.

It's a moot point anyway, seeing as how he wasn't traded.

Cmon Warpath he can't guarantee anything. He could go out next week and blow both of his knees out and never play again.

I have said along that he has stated he could play a few more years if he stayed healthy.

[Bowser]

Tony is worth more than that to the Chiefs. Also once on a different team, a good team, his performance would far exceed that of a third round pick. He still performs at the highest level. As far as Williams is concerned WRs do hold more value then TEs in general, however there is a point where the quality of the players in question make a difference. Tony is a better player then Williams and he will be for a couple more years and maybe longer than that even. A 2nd round pick as compared to what Williams was traded for is plenty of difference in compensation between a great TE and a so so WR with some untapped potential. Well IMO.

PhilFree:arrow:


I disagree. Tony is not going to make a bit of difference to this team the rest of this year, because we are just that bad. Tony MAY be the difference between us going 4-12 as opposed to 2-14 without him. On a contender like an Arizona or a Green Bay, he gives them an instant weapon in the red zone that could help them get over the hump. Tony wouldn't have to carry his new team, like he does here. And even Tony can't carry this train wreck of a team.

Now, if you meant Tony is more important to this team from a PR position from where the GM sits, I completely agree. Unfortunately, I think this whole situation is going to blow up in Carl's face before it's all said and done.

[milkman]

Evidently GB came real close. Carl and I weren't that far off.

There is no idication that the Pack came real close.

The article says:

A source familiar with negotiations told the Journal Sentinel that Chiefs President Carl Peterson ultimately decided to retain Gonzalez after turning down the best offer from Green Bay, which was a third-round selection. The source said Peterson wanted a second-rounder to make the deal.

There is no indication whatsoever that the Pack even considered that 2nd rounder.

His market value was set.

Third round.

[milkman]

Tony is worth more than that to the Chiefs. Also once on a different team, a good team, his performance would far exceed that of a third round pick. He still performs at the highest level. As far as Williams is concerned WRs do hold more value then TEs in general, however there is a point where the quality of the players in question make a difference. Tony is a better player then Williams and he will be for a couple more years and maybe longer than that even. A 2nd round pick as compared to what Williams was traded for is plenty of difference in compensation between a great TE and a so so WR with some untapped potential. Well IMO.

PhilFree:arrow:

TE is one of the least valuable positions on the football field.

A talented WR is always going to be worth more.

[okcchief]

The big problem was waiting until the 11th hour to decide they wanted to clean house. If they had started doing this in the off season they probably could have gotten decent value for TG and LJ. Now we have a couple of high paid players who don't want to be here. That's just fuggin great.

I can't put in to words how much I hate Carl Peterson. If a 32 year old player wants out after he has busted his ass for you for 11 years then you should respect that and make the deal. Keeping him against his will does this organization no good. Even if it was a 4th or 5th rounder just to get rid of his salay is best for the organization at this point.

As much as I love Tony they should have never re-signed him or LJ last year. I felt that way at the time and I feel that way now. They were obviously rebuilding even though they claimed differently. However, I have to also blame Tony for signing with the Chiefs. If you couldn't tell this team had no chance to contend last year you were in complete denial.

[Thig Lyfe]

TE is one of the least valuable positions on the football field.

Really? Even a TE who can stretch the field just as well as he can go underneath? A TE who can block just as well as he can catch?

A typical TE maybe isn't particularly valuable, but Tony Gonzalez is not a typical TE.

[Sure-Oz]

If Carl wanted a 2nd so bad he could've thrown in a late rounder to get it

[milkman]

Really? Even a TE who can stretch the field just as well as he can go underneath? A TE who can block just as well as he can catch?

A typical TE maybe isn't particularly valuable, but Tony Gonzalez is not a typical TE.

Let's look at it like this.

Tony in his prime or Jerry Rice in his prime.

Who's more valuable?

Or another way.

The two greatest receivers in Chiefs history are Tony and Otis Taylor.

Tony's going to go into the HoF, Otis probably not.

In their primes, you couldn't trade Tony straight up for Otis.

[jjchieffan]

I, personally, applaud Carl for standing firm. TG is worth more to this team than a 3rd round pick. TG is my favorite current Chief, and I would have been PISSED to see him go for anything less than a second. He wants out? Too bad. He should not have limited KC's choices on where he could go.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Let's look at it like this.

Tony in his prime or Jerry Rice in his prime.

Who's more valuable?

Or another way.

The two greatest receivers in Chiefs history are Tony and Otis Taylor.

Tony's going to go into the HoF, Otis probably not.

In their primes, you couldn't trade Tony straight up for Otis.

:clap:

[Sure-Oz]

I still dont get why Otis isnt in the hall

[Bowser]

I, personally, applaud Carl for standing firm. TG is worth more to this team than a 3rd round pick. TG is my favorite current Chief, and I would have been PISSED to see him go for anything less than a second. He wants out? Too bad. He should not have limited KC's choices on where he could go.

I get where you're coming from and what you're saying, but Tony does nothing for this team in the next two years. If there is a third founder out there for Tony, you take it, no questions asked.

[beach tribe]

Let's look at it like this.

Tony in his prime or Jerry Rice in his prime.

Who's more valuable?

Or another way.

The two greatest receivers in Chiefs history are Tony and Otis Taylor.

Tony's going to go into the HoF, Otis probably not.

In their primes, you couldn't trade Tony straight up for Otis.

Your right MM, but Tony produces on the level of a top flight WR.

Tony at 26 probably would have a higher market value than Roy W. Unless some team makes abone-head move like Dallas did.

Dallas was dumb to give up that much for him.

[PastorMikH]

Let's look at it like this.

Tony in his prime or Jerry Rice in his prime.

Who's more valuable?




Tony. He's bigger and plays closer to the LOS, thus he can better block for the RB than a small WR downfield can do. Plus, I can use Tony to help the tackle block on those pesky 3rd and long situations.

[Frankie]

There is no idication that the Pack came real close.

The article says:



There is no indication whatsoever that the Pack even considered that 2nd rounder.

His market value was set.

Third round.


From the article:

"The decision by general manager Ted Thompson not to send the second-round pick to Kansas City was made just minutes before the National Football League trading deadline of 3 p.m. "

[Frankie]

TE is one of the least valuable positions on the football field.

I think that's a myth. Stram tried desparately to find a good TE after Fred Arbanas, and he failed. After him the Chiefs tried for years until drafting TG. It all depends on the TE's role in your offensive scheme. And Tony is almost another big WR anyway.

[Frankie]

If Carl wanted a 2nd so bad he could've thrown in a late rounder to get it

Or Thigpen. ;)

[philfree]

There is no idication that the Pack came real close.

The article says:



There is no indication whatsoever that the Pack even considered that 2nd rounder.

His market value was set.

Third round.


Sometimes a market won't bare what something is worth. In a case like that you don't sell. Tony is worth more to the Chiefs than what the market would bare so he's still a Chief. Also willliams isn't even in the same galaxy as Jerry Rice and Tony.

PhilFree:arrow:

[Frankie]

I still dont get why Otis isnt in the hall

Stats. It's a shame though.

[BIG_DADDY]

A 2nd rounder would have been a good trade for any contender that needs a good TE. It would have been good for everyone. Bottom line is he is worth a 2nd rounder all day long.

[OnTheWarpath15]

A 2nd rounder would have been a good trade for any contender that needs a good TE. It would have been good for everyone. Bottom line is he is worth a 2nd rounder all day long.

:spock:

Yep, that's exactly why no one offered a 2nd round pick.

You guys keep missing the boat.

Though you've been spoiled by the play of a great TE, it is a LUXURY position in the eyes of the NFL. A great, or for that matter, even GOOD TE is not a must for success.

Christ, the team everyone thinks is a perfect fit TRADED their TE, and went on to win the Super Bowl with his replacement.

How did the Patriots win all those championships without a great TE?

Bottom line is that he's NOT worth a 2nd rounder all day long, or all month long - or someone would have offered a 2nd round pick.

People are too butthurt to think about this logically. TG may be the best player on the team, but there are several guys on this team, right now, that would bring back more in a trade.

[Zouk]

How did the Patriots win all those championships without a great TE?



The Patriots spent two 1st round picks on tight ends during their championship run. Belichick values the position very very highly.

[the Talking Can]

good thing we gave up a 3rd while supposedly rebuilding - not as if we could find a LB, OL, WR, etc.. with a 3rd - in order to keep a 32 yr old TE who plans to retire in a year...


Carl is clearly committed to the future...


this franchise sucks ass fart cheese

[OnTheWarpath15]

The Patriots spent two 1st round picks on tight ends during their championship run. Belichick values the position very very highly.

They could have spent a hundred picks on TE's.

We're any of them anywhere near the level of TG? Nope. Would either of those guys EVER been worth more than a 3rd round pick the second after they were darfted? Nope.

Drafting the best player available has nothing to do with this scenario.

None.

And what people don't get is that PAST TRADES don't have anything to do with this scenario either.

Just because the Saints were retarded and completely overpaid for Shockey doesn't mean there is a league mandate that the next team has to give up the same, or more.

No one offered more than a 3rd. Carl called their bluff.

Carl lost.

Simple as that.

[Zouk]

Drafting the best player available has nothing to do with this scenario.


No - to me the real point is that Ben Watson is probably a better all-around player than Tony at this point. He can block a rush end (Tony can't), help seal the end of line on outside runs (Tony is below average at this), and still has much better speed than Tony to get down the middle of the field. He's a very unsung hero of that team.

Belichick, Ozzie Newsome, Parcells - all these smart evaluators have taken tight ends in Round 1.

[OnTheWarpath15]

No - to me the real point is that Ben Watson is probably a better all-around player than Tony at this point. He can block a rush end (Tony can't), help seal the end of line on outside runs (Tony is below average at this), and still has much better speed than Tony to get down the middle of the field. He's a very unsung hero of that team.

Belichick, Ozzie Newsome, Parcells - all these smart evaluators have taken tight ends in Round 1.

This ought to be good...

[Hammock Parties]

Your right MM, but Tony produces on the level of a top flight WR.

Tony at 26 probably would have a higher market value than Roy W. Unless some team makes abone-head move like Dallas did.

Dallas was dumb to give up that much for him.

Actually, he doesn't.

Top flight WRs get 1300 yards and 10 TD a year.

[Bowser]

ass fart cheese

LMAO

[KChiefs1]

If Carl wanted a 2nd so bad he could've thrown in a late rounder to get it

I also believe that they could have put performance compensation in there to get a 2nd rounder & maybe even a 1st rounder if the team he was traded to made the Super Bowl.

[jjchieffan]

I have heard it said that a young QB's best friend is a good tight end. If that is the case, then Carl did right by standing firm. If we plan to develop a young QB, then the best thing we could do for his development is to keep Tony. In fact, it was argued that GB should have ponied up the second, just for that reason.