Rand: Clark is being prudent

[shaneo69]

An owner's dilemma
Oct 21, 2008, 8:38:24 AM by Jonathan Rand

With the Chiefs’ latest lopsided loss, you can expect fans to resume their exasperation with chairman Clark Hunt for saying that coach Herm Edwards and president Carl Peterson are doing a good job rebuilding the team.

Fans want to hear Hunt tell them that he shares their pain and frustration, and no doubt would welcome an angry ultimatum to his entire football operation.

But that’s not how a good owner operates, and Hunt in a recent Kansas City Star interview said that he’s staying the course. Publicly chewing out his coach and front office might briefly give an owner a “Joe the Plumber” moment of popularity, but would serve mainly to demoralize and divide the very people he’s trying to help succeed.

Firing NFL coaches during a season is relatively rare and usually futile, the 2-0 start of the Rams’ Jim Haslett notwithstanding. Once a season starts, football teams are like concrete that’s been allowed to dry, and it’s too late to tear it all up.

An offense and defense are meticulously crafted and married to the available personnel. Once the season starts, a team is on a 16-game roller coaster ride, and good luck trying to get out of your car. An owner has to keep the faith that the decisions he signed off on were sound ones unless 16 games tell him otherwise.

In baseball, you can follow through on a managerial shakeup by calling up minor-league prospects and making a major trade or two. The NFL has no minor leagues and the relatively few important trades are made before the season. If you acquire draft picks, they can’t help you now.

It would be naïve to believe that Hunt doesn’t grasp what he’s been watching for six games. Having graduated first in his class at SMU, played soccer there and having watched the Chiefs most of his life, you can bet that he’s keenly aware of all their shortcomings.

But it’s unwise to evaluate a team at its peak or valley, and the Chiefs clearly have reached bottom. Their offense and defense are among the NFL’s worst.

The Brodie Croyle era has probably ended before it really started. Former Pro Bowl running back Larry Johnson, with his irresponsible behavior, seems determined to fulfill his prophecy that the Chiefs are trying to phase him out.

Hunt could be excused if all this made him scream. It’s to his credit that he hasn’t.

The New York Yankees’ George Steinbrenner was once the poster child for the populist owner who rips his managers and players, to the delight of fans. But the record shows that his tirades bred instability and underachievement, and that his Yankees enjoyed their greatest success when he finally stuck with one manager, Joe Torre, and began respecting sound personnel advice.

Giving his people the benefit of the doubt, however, often leads an owner into the “vote of confidence” trap. If he fires somebody after giving a vote of confidence, he’s considered inept, indecisive or dishonest.

But if he withholds a vote of confidence – even by uttering a simple “no comment” — he’s seen as pulling the rug out from under his people. For the owner of a losing team, this is truly a no-win situation.

As poorly as the Chiefs played Sunday in a 34-10 loss to the Tennessee Titans, no reasonable NFL owner pulls the plug on a rebuilding program after only six games. For Hunt to call for a restart at this point would make a tough situation worse.

http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2008/10/21/an_owners_dilemma/

[Reerun_KC]

Dear God, make it stop...

[mlyonsd]

As poorly as the Chiefs played Sunday in a 34-10 loss to the Tennessee Titans, no reasonable NFL owner pulls the plug on a rebuilding program after only six games. For Hunt to call for a restart at this point would make a tough situation worse.


I throw the BS flag that this rebuilding program has been going on for only 6 games.

[bowener]

Why can't we just be unreasonable this one time? We already tried to make Brokie the QBOTF and didnt go out and pick up a viable FA QB just in case he went down. That seems pretty unreasonable, as does assuming Huard could handle it too.

[smittysbar]

I throw the BS flag that this rebuilding program has been going on for only 6 games.I agree




Click the link and vote on this article, this POS is at 3 stars, 2 stars to many

[mikey23545]

You posters are the reason it's not a good idea to have kindergartners running a sports franchise.

[bowener]

You posters are the reason it's not a good idea to have kindergartners running a sports franchise.

True. But isnt herm enough proof that its not a good idea to have carl peterson running a franchise?

And if he is running a franchise with Herm at the helm, then is it not a good idea to have his boss running a sports franchise?

[triple]

The New York Yankees’ George Steinbrenner was once the poster child for the populist owner who rips his managers and players, to the delight of fans. But the record shows that his tirades bred instability and underachievement, and that his Yankees enjoyed their greatest success when he finally stuck with one manager, Joe Torre, and began respecting sound personnel advice.


You know what, Jonathan Rand? George Steinbrenner got competent people under him. That's why he found success.

Steinbrenner didn't have Carl Peterson, and if his GM had failed to win a postseason game in 15 years, he would have been fired 13 years ago.

Steinbrenner had one of the best managers in the league recent years. Hunt has the worst. And yet he does nothing.

Steinbrenner didn't always make good decisions, but at least he had the guts to make changes when they were warranted.


As poorly as the Chiefs played Sunday in a 34-10 loss to the Tennessee Titans, no reasonable NFL owner pulls the plug on a rebuilding program after only six games.

You know what, Jonathan Rand? This rebuilding project has been going on longer than 6 games. It began in earnest last year, so that's 22 games.

It should have begun the year before that, 38 games ago, but Herm couldn't sell the only person in professional sports less competent than he is that the team needed to be rebuilt.

And firing these two clowns would not be "pulling the plug". It would be the move that shows committing to rebuilding, because these two imbeciles obviously have no idea how to do it.

[Sure-Oz]

amazing....Petro talking on 810 saying that Priest said, he wouldnt have been signed unless trent was traded to KC, the chiefs likely would've started a rebuilding period if that didnt happen. Intersting

[Iowanian]

Clark is being prudent and looking out for the Fan base...

I mean....if he was like a warden that watched the fan base being pushed down and raped in the shower on the security cam......and then, as the assalants are wiping their unit on our hair....coming in and saying "HEY! GITTOFFA DEM!!!! ERRRR ELSE"

[HypnotizedMonkey]

kiss some ass why don't you!

[oaklandhater]

You posters are the reason it's not a good idea to have kindergartners running a sports franchise.

How come everyone ignores the shit you spew out of your mouth you insult any one who criticises the chiefs if no one else has the balls to say it I wil your an A$$Hole.

[mikey23545]

How come everyone ignores the shit you spew out of your mouth you insult any one who criticises the chiefs if no one else has the balls to say it I wil your an A$$Hole.

Looks like it's time for you to put your blanket on the floor and get a good nap.

[FAX]

It is true that Clark's in a bit of a dilemma on this deal. After all, not only did he inherit Carl and Herm, he signed off on the whole "rebuild via the draft" plan. The best thing he can do is set clear and reasonable performance standards for everyone and hold his coaches and GM accountable. Frankly, that's pretty easy in football. He can use wins, individual stats, team rankings, or whatever as performance benchmarks.

The problem I have with him right now is that his performance requirements seem kind of mushy. For example, what does "improvement" mean exactly? I'm still waiting for Clark to demonstrate that he knows how to manage anything - let alone an NFL franchise.

FAX

[DJJasonp]

It's small-town writers (such as Rand) who perpetuate the small-town "professionalism" that some call leadership in the chiefs organization.

Give me Steinbrenner any day of the week....or Jerry Jones for that matter....I WANT my owner to give a damn about winning.

I remember hearing a great story about Mr. K and the royals....how he hated to lose so bad - and hated the yankees so much....he'd do whatever it took to be competitive and beat the yankees.

That's the type of ownership the chiefs organization needs.

As much as Mark Cuban can be an idiot...the guy hates to lose....and spends good money to be a winning franchise.
'
With wins come dollars......so even if ownership cares about the bottom line...they should first care about winning.

[Reerun_KC]

How come everyone ignores the shit you spew out of your mouth you insult any one who criticises the chiefs if no one else has the balls to say it I wil your an A$$Hole.

Unless you qoute him, most of us doesnt even know he exists...

[oaklandhater]

Looks like it's time for you to put your blanket on the floor and get a good nap.

Talking down to me only makes you look like more of an ass you hootie and fish arrogance amazes me.

[BIG_DADDY]

Gimme a break.

[mikey23545]

Unless you qoute him, most of us doesnt even know he exists...

Ah, I knew this thread would draw the village idiot out eventually....

[CoMoChief]

IMO there's a difference between rebuilding a football team and just flat out playing shitty football.

The Chiefs are playing flat out butt fucking shitty football.

Hardly ever throwing more than yd routes is not rebuilding.

Having coaches say things like "We need confidence that if it doesn't work 1,2,3,4,5,6 times, that it will work the 7th time."

The above comment is directly alone why this coaching staff needs to be axed. It's very well cut and dry that coming into games this team is FAAAAR from being prepared to face any NFL calibur team, and maybe even some college teams.....no I'm not kidding.

This isn't rebuilding. You don't rebuild by trading your best and only defensive player whos only 26. You don't move a mediocre LE to RE and expect him to play well against opposing LT's in this league. You don't rebuild by starting a 7th rd pick whom we picked off of waivers and play him in reg season games when it's the most important position on the field. That right there gives no hope in rebuilding.

This team's coaching staff and front office needs to be blown up. The coaching staff doesn't know what they're doing ...(literally) and the players are to the point where they have lost hope in the coaching staff and once that happens a team as a whole will not recover.

And with the rest of our schedule, I don't see us winning one single game. Maybe CIN, but that games on the road so you can scratch that as a loss. I can't remember the last game we won on the road..... SD last season maybe? I dunno.

If Clark can't see whats going on here, it's because he doesn't care as long as he's still making his $50M profit, or he delegates too much to Carl and is so hands off that he just doesn't see whats going on which is my guess, hell he didn't even know we were wanting to trade LJ.

Granted blowing things up may not do anything now, but there better be major changes from the top down coming this offseason.

Mark Cuban wouldn't allow this shit to happen. Just a thought.

[ChiefsCountry]

You posters are the reason it's not a good idea to have kindergartners running a sports franchise.

Pretty much spot on.

[patteeu]

amazing....Petro talking on 810 saying that Priest said, he wouldnt have been signed unless trent was traded to KC, the chiefs likely would've started a rebuilding period if that didnt happen. Intersting

I can remember many callers on KC sports talk radio wanting to draft either Michael Bennett, Duece McAllister, or Drew Brees with the 12th pick overall that year before it was traded to St. Louis.

[Deberg_1990]

I can remember many callers on KC sports talk radio wanting to draft either Michael Bennett, Duece McAllister, or Drew Brees with the 12th pick overall that year before it was traded to St. Louis.


Or there was talk of trading for Corey Dillon as well wasnt there?

[ChiefsCountry]

Franchise would have been better off taking Brees. I was pretty pissed at the time for passing on him, Trent was a great guy and good QB but Brees would have been the better choice.

[shaneo69]

You posters are the reason it's not a good idea to have kindergartners running a sports franchise.

And blind homer fans like you are the reason incompetents like Carl Peterson are allowed to run a franchise for 15 years without building a team good enough to win a single playoff game.

But hey, let's continue cherishing that one magical season of 1993 when Carl's team got embarrassed in the AFC Championship game by a team that was then blown out in the Super Bowl.

Wow, what a resume Carl's put together.

[smittysbar]

And blind homer fans like you are the reason incompetents like Carl Peterson are allowed to run a franchise for 15 years without building a team good enough to win a single playoff game.

But hey, let's continue cherishing that one magical season of 1993 when Carl's team got embarrassed in the AFC Championship game by a team that was then blown out in the Super Bowl.

Wow, what a resume Carl's put together.

:clap:

[patteeu]

Or there was talk of trading for Corey Dillon as well wasnt there?

I don't remember for sure if that was at the same time or not, but it seems like there were other RB options in the mix. Priest was under my radar though.

[oaklandhater]

And blind homer fans like you are the reason incompetents like Carl Peterson are allowed to run a franchise for 15 years without building a team good enough to win a single playoff game.

But hey, let's continue cherishing that one magical season of 1993 when Carl's team got embarrassed in the AFC Championship game by a team that was then blown out in the Super Bowl.

Wow, what a resume Carl's put together.

QFT

[oaklandhater]

Pretty much spot on.

being talked down to from a mccain palin supporter priceless.....

[HC_Chief]

Fans want to hear Hunt tell them that he shares their pain and frustration, and no doubt would welcome an angry ultimatum to his entire football operation.

But that’s not how a good owner operates

:spock:
Yeah, a "good" owner lives 500+ miles away from the city which hosts "his" team and allows a slimeball scumbag run the operation as his own personal fiefdom. That's worked out sooooo very well for us since 1970.

[ChiefsCountry]

being talked down to from a mccain palin supporter priceless.....

4321

I want Peterson and Herm gone but canning their ass now isnt the way to do it.

[King_Chief_Fan]

Mr. Rand,
Like you, Clark Hunt is showing what a dumb MFer he is and what little he knows about running a football franchise. Anyone who aligns with your thinking is pretty stupid as well.
KCF

[Calcountry]

You posters are the reason it's not a good idea to have kindergartners running a sports franchise.Insert the obligatory quote by king Carl, "Well the REAL fans can see that we are building something special" or something like that.

:spock:

[58-4ever]

He played SOCCER? Great, now that confirms that he is a pussy.

[beach tribe]

But that’s not how a good owner operates, and Hunt in a recent Kansas City Star interview said that he’s staying the course. Publicly chewing out his coach and front office might briefly give an owner a “Joe the Plumber” moment of popularity, but would serve mainly to demoralize and divide the very people he’s trying to help succeed.


Good owners win playoff games. Not just make millions.

[morphius]

It doesn't shock me that he would wait till after the season is over, he bought into the rebuild, and now is going to see if Herm can actually follow through with the improvement piece. Plus, he is going to have to wait till after the season is over before he can pick a HC off from another team, and steal a GM somehow as well.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Ah, I knew this thread would draw the village idiot out eventually....

Stop referring to yourself in the third person.

[Tribal Warfare]

It doesn't shock me that he would wait till after the season is over, he bought into the rebuild, and now is going to see if Herm can actually follow through with the improvement piece. Plus, he is going to have to wait till after the season is over before he can pick a HC off from another team, and steal a GM somehow as well.

QFT

[whoman69]

4321

I want Peterson and Herm gone but canning their ass now isnt the way to do it.

Why not. St. Louis, Oakland and San Fran all recognized the train wreck they were on and decided to get off. I don't buy the baseball analogy given. Did the Mets call up a bunch of minor leaguers after they fired Willie Randolf? No they brought in someone who would not put up with the crap being put out on the field and got it fixed. Right now Herm is sending our players out to make the same mistakes every week. He has the same lame playbook out there with absolutely no offensive capability which is killing us on both sides of the ball. Why are you going to compound these mistakes and build a culture of losing. We are not rebuilding, we're learning to lose.

[morphius]

QFT
The main thing is you have to be ready to hit the ground running as soon as the last whistle is blown so that the new GM can start interviewing coaches that are on playoff teams during their bye week. There are a lot of openings, so there will be some teams throwing some bigger money around really quick.

[oaklandhater]

4321

I want Peterson and Herm gone but canning their ass now isnt the way to do it.

I dont see why not its not like we are changeing a winning formula the chiefs are about as bad as it gets right now

[StcChief]

It is true that Clark's in a bit of a dilemma on this deal. After all, not only did he inherit Carl and Herm, he signed off on the whole "rebuild via the draft" plan. The best thing he can do is set clear and reasonable performance standards for everyone and hold his coaches and GM accountable. Frankly, that's pretty easy in football. He can use wins, individual stats, team rankings, or whatever as performance benchmarks.

The problem I have with him right now is that his performance requirements seem kind of mushy. For example, what does "improvement" mean exactly? I'm still waiting for Clark to demonstrate that he knows how to manage anything - let alone an NFL franchise.

FAX 2009 beginning of off season 12/29/2008 would be soon enough to evaulate and start over with new folks at GM/Head coach.

[dallaschiefsfan]

Jon Rand = Hack

[ChiefsCountry]

I dont see why not its not like we are changeing a winning formula the chiefs are about as bad as it gets right now

Read all morphius's posts above. He has it right.

[whoman69]

2009 beginning of off season 12/29/2008 would be soon enough to evaulate and start over with new folks at GM/Head coach.

If you're going to get rid of them anyway, why not start now? Miami brought in Parcelles half way thru last season. St. Louis and San Fran have made the call to start the cure now, not wait until the patient is terminal. We gain nothing from keeping a broken system in place.

[ChiefsCountry]

Miami brought in Parcelles half way thru last season.

Halfway through the year? :shake:
http://www.miamiherald.com/616/story/350561.html

[Mecca]

Pretty much spot on.

Don't encourage Mikey.....all he does is call people stupid while offering 0 thoughts himself, that takes real brains eh?

[oaklandhater]

Don't encourage Mikey.....all he does is call people stupid while offering 0 thoughts himself, that takes real brains eh?

QFT

[the Talking Can]

yes, it's prudent to continue 15 years of carl peterson's failure....

i'm so glad we're prudent....we suck for near 2 decades, but we're prudent!!

woo-hoo!

[MahiMike]

What possible benefit can we imagine to receive from a man that kicks a FG w/5 mins left in a 27-0 game? I say let bunny the cheerleader coach the team. Change the unis to pink instead of red. Have some fun on the way to 2-14 (credit bunny for 1 win).

[milkman]

What gets me is how far off these media types are in reading the fans reaction.

They have this idea that we have jumped ship on the concept of rebuilding.

The fact is, the one thing I will give Herman ****ing Edwards credit for is finally getting this organization to make the right decision and build htis team through the draft, to get younger, to attempt to put a team together that would be able to compete at a high level.

The problem isn't the direction, it's the stupid mother****er directing the product on the field, and the stupid mother****er who hired that idiot, and traded away a draft pick for the chance to do so.

He (Herman ****ing Edwards) is a coach that coaches in fear.

He wants to win, he doesn't however, want to risk losing in that effort.

He consistently puts his players in position to fail.

The fact is, I beleive that the team has drafted a solid core group, and that even were Herman ****ing Edwards not fired, this team would appear to be competitive in a couple of years.

But that would be an illusion, because when it came time to make plays, he would still be putting his players in a position to fail.

[milkman]

I don't remember for sure if that was at the same time or not, but it seems like there were other RB options in the mix. Priest was under my radar though.

A lot of people were pissed that the Chiefs let Charlie Garner sign with the Raiders.

[Delano]

What gets me is how far off these media types are in reading the fans reaction.

They have this idea that we have jumped ship on the concept of rebuilding.

The fact is, the one thing I will give Herman ****ing Edwards credit for is finally getting this organization to make the right decision and build htis team through the draft, to get younger, to attempt to put a team together that would be able to compete at a high level.

The problem isn't the direction, it's the stupid mother****er directing the product on the field, and the stupid mother****er who hired that idiot, and traded away a draft pick for the chance to do so.

He (Herman ****ing Edwards) is a coach that coaches in fear.

He wants to win, he doesn't however, want to risk losing in that effort.

He consistently puts his players in position to fail.

The fact is, I beleive that the team has drafted a solid core group, and that even were Herman ****ing Edwards not fired, this team would appear to be competitive in a couple of years.

But that would be an illusion, because when it came time to make plays, he would still be putting his players in a position to fail.

Nice.

[TEX]

The problem with that thinking is that Herm Fucking Edwards is no Joe Torre - it's not even close...

[patteeu]

A lot of people were pissed that the Chiefs let Charlie Garner sign with the Raiders.

Thanks. That's probably the third guy I was thinking of. I remember being in the camp that wanted Garner. I was underwhelmed by the Priest signing. Crazy.

[whoman69]

Halfway through the year? :shake:
http://www.miamiherald.com/616/story/350561.html

There were stories in the papers a month before that he was taking over, they just didn't know where and in what capacity. The fact that he was able to get a look at the organization and even override the GM speaks volumes.

I just noticed the article called Hunt prudent. Is that like George HW Bush prudent? Do all wimps get the label prudent on their actions?

[chiefsngop]

Points to Clark for accepting a rebuild as a good idea for this strategy.

But negative points for allowing Carl to oversee it. Steinbrenner wouldn't allow a GM with limited to no success for over a decade to continue on.

And potential negative points if he allows Herm to continue on after this season, the proofs in the pudding that he's not developing these rooks nor fesible game plans for that matter....