For the guys who downgrade Stafford for his stats

[Mecca]

Or ask what's so great about him....take a look at this...

Did Stafford's sloppy play against Florida hurt his stock?

Thayer
San Francisco, CA

In a word: No.

Sure Matthew Stafford struggled against the Gators, throwing three interceptions, but stats aren't everything and there are other aspects that have to be taken into account. Georgia was clearly outmatched by the Gators in that game and after going down early Stafford had no choice but to force a lot of throws, which led to the picks. Sure Stafford has thrown more interceptions than you'd like to see but that is partly due to the talent around him, most notably a young and inexperienced offensive line. Even with that rough game against Florida factored in Stafford is still on pace to have about the same TD / INT ratio this year that Peyton and Eli Manning had as juniors in the same conference. Remember, both Jay Cutler and Matt Ryan were criticized for throwing too many interceptions in college too and they turned out all right.

I am very stingy when it comes to handing out my "Elite" grade and only one guy (Darren McFadden) got it last year but assuming Stafford comes out he is on track to be one of the few and proud. In my opinion Stafford is the total package in terms of physical tools and intangibles and he should be one of the first players selected.

- Scott Wright, Draft Countdown

[eazyb81]

yeah, I pointed out a few days ago that Stafford is on pace for 20 TD and 12 INT, the exact same ratio that Peyton had his junior year while playing in the same conference.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I'm with you 100% on the fact that too many people are hung up on stats alone.

Just to spark a little conversation though, replace "Georgia" with "Kansas City" in the following text and tell me if you like what you see.

Kansas City was clearly outmatched by the [insert NFL team here] in that game and after going down early Stafford had no choice but to force a lot of throws, which led to the picks. Sure Stafford has thrown more interceptions than you'd like to see but that is partly due to the talent around him, most notably a young and inexperienced offensive line.

Dear God, that sounds familiar.

Hopefully, if we do draft him, the results are different and he can/does succeed with those same factors working against him.

[suds79]

I like Stafford but I think this is a done deal.

He's going #1 to somebody and there's no way we get there.

So IMO it's almost a moot point talking about him.

[SAUTO]

I'm with you 100% on the fact that too many people are hung up on stats alone.

Just to spark a little conversation though, replace "Georgia" with "Kansas City" in the following text and tell me if you like what you see.



Dear God, that sounds familiar.

Hopefully, if we do draft him, the results are different and he can/does succeed with those same factors working against him.

scary HUH?

[sedated]

the fact that so many people on the Planet don't like stafford makes me like him even more

[alpha_omega]

Stafford = Detroit Lion

[bowener]

I'm with you 100% on the fact that too many people are hung up on stats alone.

Just to spark a little conversation though, replace "Georgia" with "Kansas City" in the following text and tell me if you like what you see.



Dear God, that sounds familiar.

Hopefully, if we do draft him, the results are different and he can/does succeed with those same factors working against him.

Why do you have to continually break my spirit?

[Mecca]

the fact that so many people on the Planet don't like stafford makes me like him even more

LOL...that's probably a pretty good sign that he'll be good.

[bowener]

the fact that so many people on the Planet don't like stafford makes me like him even more

Is Stafford this years Matt Ryan?

[Deberg_1990]

the fact that so many people on the Planet don't like stafford makes me like him even more

Yep....same thing happened back in April with the Planeteers expert evaluations of Matt Ryan.

[Mecca]

Yep....same thing happened back in April with the Planeteers expert evaluations of Matt Ryan.

How many people actually liked Ryan?

Me, You and like 1 other guy?

[Brock]

Don't draft Ryan we already have Croyle!!!

[xbarretx]

How many people actually liked Ryan?

Me, You and like 1 other guy?

so if he declares, and is gone (as most likley the case) assuming we have 2nd or 3rd pick... ^in the words of *The Urge*^ "where do we go from heeerrrreeeeee?"

[Deberg_1990]

Don't draft Ryan we already have Croyle!!!

hahaha. sadly, there were a few of those.


Now, nobody knew Ryan would be this good, but i figured he wouldnt bomb either.

[Mecca]

so if he declares, and is gone (as most likley the case) assuming we have 2nd or 3rd pick... ^in the words of *The Urge*^ "where do we go from heeerrrreeeeee?"

Well then we're fucked....

[xbarretx]

Don't draft Ryan we already have Croyle!!!

brock, is your sig a Leeroy jenkins quote? LMAO ROFL!

[xbarretx]

Well then we're ****ed....

oh-noez !? :deevee:

but what if he doesnt declare this year?

[Mecca]

oh-noez !? :deevee:

but what if he doesnt declare this year?

Then we have to hope we suck again.....

If we can't get Stafford then there's several options....part of that depends on if we have a new coach or not.

[xbarretx]

part of that depends on if we have a new coach or not.

.. :doh!: not holding my breath on that one :cuss:

[talastan]

If Stafford is there when we pick, you grab him. If not BPA by all means. Hopefully that will be a pass rusher DE preferably.

[sedated]

.
Matt Ryan? I'd throw up.

If we draft a quarterback in the first round this year, I'll have to shoot my dog because kicking it would not be good enough.

Oh My God.

FAX

If we were to use a Top 10 pick on Ryan or Clady, it would set this franchise back another 10 years.

Horrible, horrible lack of value where we'll be drafting.

Andre Woodson is going to be a star in the NFL.

Why the F? would we draft a QB?

[alanm]

I like Stafford but I think this is a done deal.

He's going #1 to somebody and there's no way we get there.

So IMO it's almost a moot point talking about him.Pretty much.

[Deberg_1990]

.


Wow...just wow.

[eazyb81]

How many people actually liked Ryan?

Me, You and like 1 other guy?

I don't know about either of you, but I was pushing for him the whole time. Everyone talked about his noodle arm and lack of production while I sat back and laughed. Someone should do some searches to find some classic quotes.

edit: looks like sedated beat me to it.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I'll eat the crow I deserve.

I was wrong about Clady. He's been phenomenal.

But I stand by what I said about Ryan. He wouldn't be anywhere near as successful here as he's been in Atlanta, and anyone who is willing to be honest about it would say the same thing.

He's the beneficiary of an outstanding running game, a solid, yet unappreciated OL, (he's only been sacked 12 times in 8 games - 4 of them coming in 1 game) and a WR corp that might be as good as it gets when it comes to getting WIDE open.

Doesn't hurt to have Bill Musgrave as your QB coach and Mike Mularkey as your OC, either.

Put him on a team like KC or Detroit, with no OL and no running game, and no one is sobbering all over his cock, that's for sure.

[Reaper16]

.
Well, I'm going to defend myself here. I can guarantee that the quote he used from me was under the context of me wanting linemen before anything. That's just my own personal football philosophy -- it starts and ends on the line of scrimmage. I thought Dorsey was going to be a dominant force, and I still do. I still don't know if I'd take Ryan over Dorsey. But it is a lot closer than I thought it was last year.

I did come around on Ryan before the draft, though: I hadn't watched Ryan in action until tonight. That dude can make some good throws. He impressed me a lot more than I figured he would.

[Mecca]

Mike Mularkey was given a young QB in Buffalo and sucked balls with him so I don't think I'll give him to much credit.

[Demonpenz]

I wanted ryan from day one because hitting on a qb is important, I aint going to jump up and down on it though, i think my draft board experience speaks for itself

[Mecca]

Wow...just wow.

I think alot of that just stems from the fear of using a high pick on a QB this fanbase has, the team has never done it.

Then alot of people will believe in anyone, we had people believing in Croyle when he had done nothing, and now we got that with Thigpen.

[OnTheWarpath15]

If pulling old quotes is the way we're gonna go on this, then we should be able to find some real doozies from Mecca.

I mean, we're talking about a guy who as recently as this summer, hadn't mentioned Stafford once - his focus was on OL/DL.

Same thing happened the year before, when he was pimping Brohm and Brennan non-stop, then switched to Ryan late in the game.

Hell, I'm not even sure why he's here. He said last year that if the Chiefs had the opportunity to draft Brohm and passed, he'd turn in his fan card.

[Mecca]

If you're going to use those standards, every single draft site should be shutdown because lists in September will look alot different than ones in January, especially considering most underclassmen don't get factored in until they actually say they're coming out.

Branden Albert was on no list till he declared last year does that make every draft person stupid?

[Deberg_1990]

I think alot of that just stems from the fear of using a high pick on a QB this fanbase has, the team has never done it.

Then alot of people will believe in anyone, we had people believing in Croyle when he had done nothing, and now we got that with Thigpen.

yep. I agree 100%.

This fanbase has been conditioned to believe in solid, but 2nd tier QB's like Deberg, Krieg, Bono, Grbac, etc....



"We cant draft a QB high!!, If he fails it will set up back for decades!!"

[Deberg_1990]

If pulling old quotes is the way we're gonna go on this, then we should be able to find some real doozies from Mecca.






The Chiefs should be looking to draft Cromartie over Hali


Oh...Ooops...

[OnTheWarpath15]

yep. I agree 100%.

This fanbase has been conditioned to believe in solid, but 2nd tier QB's like Deberg, Krieg, Bono, Grbac, etc....



"We cant draft a QB high!!, If he fails it will set up back for decades!!"



WHEN he fails. Not IF.

This organization is by far and away the most ill-equipped franchise in the NFL as far as being able to mold and teach a young QB.

And it's not even close.

Don't blame the fans. Blame Clark Hunt and Carl Peterson for allowing guys like Dick Curl to steal a paycheck and give nothing in return.

They'd be much better off, IMO, to get the house in order in regards to the coaching staff, as well as the surrounding cast on the field before they made a $70M investment in a kid who people are already making excuses for while still in college.

[beach tribe]

Don't draft Ryan we already have Croyle!!!

Don't draft Ryan..........He's already gone.

[Mecca]

And now we're back to the argument of we can't draft a QB because we'll just ruin him, under that thought why are we even giving a shit then?

[Deberg_1990]

This organization is by far and away the most ill-equipped franchise in the NFL as far as being able to mold and teach a young QB.

And it's not even close.

Don't blame the fans. Blame Clark Hunt and Carl Peterson for allowing guys like Dick Curl to steal a paycheck and give nothing in return.



We can agree on this 100%.

But that shouldnt stop you from drafting top talent.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Oh...Ooops...

Ah, the classic "bitch about someone we couldn't pick" game.

I'm not saying Jeff's never right. He's right quite often.

Then again, if you throw a handful of darts, one of them has to hit the bullseye, right?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Don't draft Ryan..........He's already gone.

This.

It amazes me how people even make this an issue.

He wasn't there.

And as I've pointed out numerous times, it would have cost our 1st, 2nd and TWO of our three 3rd round picks to move up to get him.

I don't give a flying fuck if Matt Ryan becomes the greatest QB in NFL history, or gets caught ass-raping a guy while snorting blow off a midget's ass in Buckhead one night and flames out of the league. He wasn't available to draft.

Period.

[chiefzilla1501]

I think alot of that just stems from the fear of using a high pick on a QB this fanbase has, the team has never done it.

Then alot of people will believe in anyone, we had people believing in Croyle when he had done nothing, and now we got that with Thigpen.

I think the reservation I and a lot of people have is that Stafford is only on top of boards b/c he's a QB, and the top of the QB class is always slated in the top 5. I just see too much of Jamarcus Russell and Jeff George--two freakishly talented QBs who just don't make good decisions. I think the majority of the hype around Stafford is that he throws a pretty ball. Sounds a lot like a healthier version of Brodie Croyle, doesn't it?

I think the other reservation is "opportunity cost." Most top 5 picks are pretty much guaranteed to be successful in the NFL. Except at QB. So you have to realize that if Stafford doesn't stack up, we could have missed out on a pro bowler at another position. Especially if you pass up a chance to trade down, you could miss out on TWO starters.

[Mecca]

I don't think that's the point being made....the point is even if he was available a good majority of people here wouldn't have wanted him and would have made threads about how the world ended if they had taken him.

[Deberg_1990]

The Chiefs should have made a better effort to snag Brady Quinn in 07 when he was falling down the draft board.

[Mecca]

I think the reservation I and a lot of people have is that Stafford is only on top of boards b/c he's a QB, and the top of the QB class is always slated in the top 5. I just see too much of Jamarcus Russell and Jeff George--two freakishly talented QBs who just don't make good decisions. I think the majority of the hype around Stafford is that he throws a pretty ball. Sounds a lot like a healthier version of Brodie Croyle, doesn't it?

I think the other reservation is "opportunity cost." Most top 5 picks are pretty much guaranteed to be successful in the NFL. Except at QB. So you have to realize that if Stafford doesn't stack up, we could have missed out on a pro bowler at another position. Especially if you pass up a chance to trade down, you could miss out on TWO starters.

There's no 'safe pick" anymore people use to say OT was then we got Robert Gallery...

Every single talened big arm QB isn't Ryan Leaf people need to come off that, under that guise Carson Palmer should have scared the shit out of you.

[Deberg_1990]

" Most top 5 picks are pretty much guaranteed to be successful in the NFL. Except at QB.

KiJana Carter approves this post.



There are no guarantees in the NFL.

[ferrarispider95]

The Chiefs should have made a better effort to snag Brady Quinn in 07 when he was falling down the draft board.

Talk about a double f*ck, browns behind us got quinn and cowboys in front of us got another 1st rounder

Well at least we didn't draft a ryan sims there

[mikey23545]

I think alot of that just stems from the fear of using a high pick on a QB this fanbase has, the team has never done it.

Then alot of people will believe in anyone, we had people believing in Croyle when he had done nothing, and now we got that with Thigpen.

Wow...What has Stafford done in the NFL?

[OnTheWarpath15]

There's no 'safe pick" anymore people use to say OT was then we got Robert Gallery...

And while not worth his draft slot value wise, Gallery has become a solid lineman for the Raiders now that he's been moved to guard.

They are at least getting something out of their investment.

That's where the QB being the most important position on the field plays into this. You could draft a DE, WR, OL or any other position high, and even if they don't live up to expectations, you still get something out of them, and they don't bring the entire team's performance down with them. Your entire defense isn't going to go to shit just because your rookie DE is struggling 3 years after he was drafted.

When a QB fails, there's no where else on the field to utilize him.

You either continue to start him, and continue to lose games, or you sit his ass on the bench.

All while paying him a ridiculous amount of money.

[Mecca]

And while not worth his draft slot value wise, Gallery has become a solid lineman for the Raiders now that he's been moved to guard.

They are at least getting something out of their investment.

That's where the QB being the most important position on the field plays into this. You could draft a DE, WR, OL or any other position high, and even if they don't live up to expectations, you still get something out of them, and they don't bring the entire team's performance down with them. Your entire defense isn't going to go to shit just because your rookie DE is struggling 3 years after he was drafted.

When a QB fails, there's no where else on the field to utilize him.

You either continue to start him, and continue to lose games, or you sit his ass on the bench.

All while paying him a ridiculous amount of money.

I absolutely despise that argument, "well he may have sucked but he's an ok guard now" a top 5 pick is suppose to be a cornerstone player.

He's every big as big of a bust because now he plays a non priority position with a big contract, and that's another example of making a pick out of fear>

Well if he sucks we can still use him...

[Deberg_1990]

And while not worth his draft slot value wise, Gallery has become a solid lineman for the Raiders now that he's been moved to guard.

They are at least getting something out of their investment.

That's where the QB being the most important position on the field plays into this. You could draft a DE, WR, OL or any other position high, and even if they don't live up to expectations, you still get something out of them, and they don't bring the entire team's performance down with them. Your entire defense isn't going to go to shit just because your rookie DE is struggling 3 years after he was drafted.

When a QB fails, there's no where else on the field to utilize him.

You either continue to start him, and continue to lose games, or you sit his ass on the bench.

All while paying him a ridiculous amount of money.

So basically you dont draft a guy because your afraid of failing. Nice. Lets just forfeit the entire draft every year.

If you draft a QB and he busts, guess what? You get right back on the horse and draft another QB.

[chiefzilla1501]

There's no 'safe pick" anymore people use to say OT was then we got Robert Gallery...

Every single talened big arm QB isn't Ryan Leaf people need to come off that, under that guise Carson Palmer should have scared the shit out of you.

QBs are by far the riskiest
DTs and LTs are probably next in line

Here's the difference. The top QB in the class almost always lands in the top 5, even if there's some doubt around the kid. Russell was drafted even though people questioned his ability to think through the game. Alex Smith was picked as #1 even though there were significant doubts about the competition he faced. Matt Leinart was taken in the top 10 even though many questioned his arm strength. Or how about Vince Young drafted in the top 5 even though he bombed the Wonderlic test? Carson Palmer didn't scare any NFL team. He was about as perfect of a QB coming out of the draft as you'll find--great arm strength, great intelligence, great poise, and a mistake-free player. He was a consensus #1 pick. I'm afraid Stafford joins a long line of QBs that are rated way too high because he's the best QB of the class, not because he's the best player in the draft.

The thing about DTs and LTs, is that while they bust at a high rate, they don't crack the top 5 or 10 unless scouts are sure they belong there. Unlike QBs, they don't earn a free pass into the top 10.

[Mecca]

The thing is lost here is you don't win anything without the QB, now you have to put things around him but building without the QB gets you the 90s Chiefs. Or if you're lucky maybe you're one of the mixed in teams that won in space of the franchise QB's a Tampa or Baltimore.

The Chiefs had the best Oline in football and couldn't even win a playoff game with it.

[Mecca]

QBs are by far the riskiest
DTs and LTs are probably next in line

Here's the difference. The top QB in the class almost always lands in the top 5, even if there's some doubt around the kid. Russell was drafted even though people questioned his ability to think through the game. Alex Smith was picked as #1 even though there were significant doubts about the competition he faced. Matt Leinart was taken in the top 10 even though many questioned his arm strength. Or how about Vince Young drafted in the top 5 even though he bombed the Wonderlic test? Carson Palmer didn't scare any NFL team. He was about as perfect of a QB coming out of the draft as you'll find--great arm strength, great intelligence, great poise, and a mistake-free player. He was a consensus #1 pick. I'm afraid Stafford joins a long line of QBs that are rated way too high because he's the best QB of the class, not because he's the best player in the draft.

The thing about DTs and LTs, is that while they bust at a high rate, they don't crack the top 5 or 10 unless scouts are sure they belong there. Unlike QBs, they don't earn a free pass into the top 10.

I'd love to know how Stafford is closer to a bust than he is to Palmer....some of this stuff just blows my mind.

Also everyone who loves stats and says workouts are overrated and all that should have loved Leinart he was a majorly productive college QB in a pro system......we're getting double sided arguments here basically giving a reason why any kind of QB sucks.

[chiefzilla1501]

KiJana Carter approves this post.



There are no guarantees in the NFL.

There are no guarantees. But there are different degrees of risk and probability.

Any safety or LB that rates in the top 5 or 10 is extremely low risk with a high probability of success.

Any QB, LT, or DT that ranks in the top 5 or 10 overall is extremely high risk with a much lower probability of success.

And the Kijana Carter example doesn't apply. He failed in the NFL because of a freak injury, not because he wasn't good enough for the NFL.

[OnTheWarpath15]

The thing is lost here is you don't win anything without the QB, now you have to put things around him but building without the QB gets you the 90s Chiefs. Or if you're lucky maybe you're one of the mixed in teams that won in space of the franchise QB's a Tampa or Baltimore.

The Chiefs had the best Oline in football and couldn't even win a playoff game with it.

Yet that had nothing to do with the offensive side of the ball.

Chicago is winning with Kyle Fucking Orton.

Tennessee is winning with an ancient Kerry Collins.

To say you can't win without a Top 5 pick at QB is fucking retarded.

[Mecca]

There are no guarantees. But there are different degrees of risk and probability.

Any safety or LB that rates in the top 5 or 10 is extremely low risk with a high probability of success.

Any QB, LT, or DT that ranks in the top 5 or 10 overall is extremely high risk with a much lower probability of success.

And the Kijana Carter example doesn't apply. He failed in the NFL because of a freak injury, not because he wasn't good enough for the NFL.

I think I'd rather risk getting an elite player at a premier position than getting a good player at a low priority position....

[Mecca]

Yet that had nothing to do with the offensive side of the ball.

Chicago is winning with Kyle Fucking Orton.

Tennessee is winning with an ancient Kerry Collins.

To say you can't win without a Top 5 pick at QB is fucking retarded.

Do you think Chicago is a legit contender? That's what I'm talking about...because they aren't..

Tennessee as a team is having a nice year...they run it all the time play D all that and this isn't a good NFL season so far but you know what..I'd wager money they'll lose in the playoffs.

Winning isn't just making the playoffs or winning 9 games I mean being a legit contender.

[chiefzilla1501]

I'd love to know how Stafford is closer to a bust than he is to Palmer....some of this stuff just blows my mind.

Also everyone who loves stats and says workouts are overrated and all that should have loved Leinart he was a majorly productive college QB in a pro system......we're getting double sided arguments here basically giving a reason why any kind of QB sucks.

No, if you're going to warrant a top 5 pick, you need to be the whole package. Palmer offered the physical talent and a ridiculously good track record of good decision making in college. Leinart offered a good track record of decision making but a lack of physical talent. Stafford, like Jamarcus, in my opinion, offers great physical talent but shaky decision making skills.

It's not double-sided. There isn't a single person who would argue that Stafford rates even remotely close to as high as Palmer rated going into the draft. Jamarcus seems to me to be the classic example of how scouts can overrate a prospect merely because they're the best QB in the class, not because they're the best player in the draft.

[Deberg_1990]

we're getting double sided arguments here basically giving a reason why any kind of QB sucks.

Basically, if hes a Chiefs drafted QB, hes destined to suck. People have to justify that argument by any means necessary.

[chiefzilla1501]

I think I'd rather risk getting an elite player at a premier position than getting a good player at a low priority position....

But if you're wrong (and over half of the teams that have bet on a top 5 QB are wrong)...

[Deberg_1990]

Tennessee as a team is having a nice year...they run it all the time play D all that and this isn't a good NFL season so far but you know what..I'd wager money they'll lose in the playoffs.



Tennessee is the 90's Chiefs. Thats what they are.

[Mecca]

No, if you're going to warrant a top 5 pick, you need to be the whole package. Palmer offered the physical talent and a ridiculously good track record of good decision making in college. Leinart offered a good track record of decision making but a lack of physical talent. Stafford, like Jamarcus, in my opinion, offers great physical talent but shaky decision making skills.

It's not double-sided. There isn't a single person who would argue that Stafford rates even remotely close to as high as Palmer rated going into the draft. Jamarcus seems to me to be the classic example of how scouts can overrate a prospect merely because they're the best QB in the class, not because they're the best player in the draft.

So you're one of the people that thinks unless you're getting the 1 in 15 years guy the Manning, Elway or Palmer you don't want him...good strategy.

[chiefzilla1501]

Basically, if hes a Chiefs drafted QB, hes destined to suck. People have to justify that argument by any means necessary.

No. That's not the argument. Stafford has first round potential. But I would not drain a top 5 pick on him. He's borderline top 10, if even. That's what Russell, Vince Young, and Alex Smith SHOULD have been rated, except that teams desperate for a QB are willing to overrate a QB prospect to fill in their need.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I think I'd rather risk getting an elite player at a premier position than getting a good player at a low priority position....

I think you're missing his point.

In most years, it would be safe to argue that ALL of the players in the Top 10 are expected to be elite players.

But by nature of being the most important position on the field, QB's are thrust into the Top 5-10 when they don't neccessarily belong there - based on position alone.

Only once in the past 10 years (1998-2007) has a QB not been drafted in the Top 5 on selection day. Yet 8 of of 12 of those Top 5 guys that were selected during that period could/are classified as busts. That's a 75% bust rate.

If that doesn't make a case for guys being elevated based on position alone, I don't know what does.

[Mecca]

Some of you all need to read this thread...

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26589

[chiefzilla1501]

So you're one of the people that thinks unless you're getting the 1 in 15 years guy the Manning, Elway or Palmer you don't want him...good strategy.

No. But if you're talking about the top 5, you sure as hell better get Elway or Palmer.

Funny thing is, you keep bringing up Tennessee, but don't mention that they used a #3 pick on a QB a few years ago. How'd that pick work out for them?

[Deberg_1990]

Funny thing is, you keep bringing up Tennessee, but don't mention that they used a #3 pick on a QB a few years ago. How'd that pick work out for them?


Jury is still out on Young.

He played well for a rookie in 06.

They made the playoffs last year.

They have a solid team and system built up.

[chiefzilla1501]

Jury is still out on Young.

He played well for a rookie in 06.

They made the playoffs last year.

They have a solid team and system built up.

No, the jury isn't out on Young. The only reason he gets cred is because his team won games. Nevermind that he has a below 70 QB rating and last season had more than a 1/2 TD/INT ratio.

The fact that Collins is winning games also suggests that the Titans are winning despite their QB situation, not because of it.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Jury is still out on Young.

He played well for a rookie in 06.

They made the playoffs last year.

They have a solid team and system built up.

Uh, no, he didn't play well. As a rookie or last year.

Tennessee went 8-8 his rookie year, and the defense singlehandedly won them 3-4 games that year. IIRC, there was a game against Jacksonville they won while having under 100 yard of offense - the defense scored multiple times.

Guy had a 51% completion percentage and more INT's than TD's - as well as 12 fumbles in 2006.

In 2007, his completion percentage went up 10 points, but he went 7/19 on TD/INT ratio - with 10 fumbles.

[Mecca]

No, the jury isn't out on Young. The only reason he gets cred is because his team won games. Nevermind that he has a below 70 QB rating and last season had more than a 1/2 TD/INT ratio.

The fact that Collins is winning games also suggests that the Titans are winning despite their QB situation, not because of it.

The Titans should be the poster child of how not to build your team, they're a good story right now but 9 out of 10 times that team loses in the playoffs, the Chiefs were the same thing..

Not to mention what they've done is even dumber, even if you like Young or not, I've been a fan of his, you don't draft a QB in the top 10 then turn around and refuse to get him any help like their complete lack of WR's.

[OnTheWarpath15]

The Titans should be the poster child of how not to build your team, they're a good story right now but 9 out of 10 times that team loses in the playoffs, the Chiefs were the same thing..

Not to mention what they've done is even dumber, even if you like Young or not, I've been a fan of his, you don't draft a QB in the top 10 then turn around and refuse to get him any help like their complete lack of WR's.


Yeah, I'd be REALLY pissed if the Chiefs built themselves in the mold of a team that made the playoffs last year WITHOUT a QB, and are 8-0 without one this year.

ROFL

Now I've heard everything.

I'm done.

[Mecca]

Yeah, I'd be REALLY pissed if the Chiefs built themselves in the mold of a team that made the playoffs last year WITHOUT a QB, and are 8-0 without one this year.

ROFL

Now I've heard everything.

I'm done.

Cool if you wanna build to be the 90s Chiefs be my guest, you won't win a Superbowl with it.

And that was suppose to say I'm not a fan of Young.

[Mecca]

Watch me rail the Titans....

You use a top 5 pick on a QB from the spread option offense that ran zone read 75% of the time with a fucked up throwing motion that isn't a good passer...

You follow that by taking a douchebag corner that can't stay out of trouble in the top 10..

Not to mention you draft a RB in the first 2 rounds 3 years in a row by going 2 2 and 1.

[eazyb81]

Cool if you wanna build to be the 90s Chiefs be my guest, you won't win a Superbowl with it.

And that was suppose to say I'm not a fan of Young.

Oh come on, I get where you're going with this argument, but the whole idea that any team that focuses on a strong defense, a great running game, and a conservative offense is the 90's Chiefs and is incapable of winning is ridiculous. The Baltimore Ravens won a Super Bowl a few years ago with that strategy.

[Mecca]

Oh come on, I get where you're going with this argument, but the whole idea that any team that focuses on a strong defense, a great running game, and a conservative offense is the 90's Chiefs and is incapable of winning is ridiculous. The Baltimore Ravens won a Super Bowl a few years ago with that strategy.

And it required the best defense of the last 20 years...and they only won 1 time with it...that should tell you something about that strategy.

[eazyb81]

And it required the best defense of the last 20 years...and they only won 1 time with it...that should tell you something about that strategy.

Pittsburgh, Tampa, old school Skins teams.....there have been many teams that have won it all with a great defense and conservative offense that doesn't turn the ball over.

[Gravedigger]

I personally think that Stafford is the best in terms of the "it" guy this year. Bradford is very accurate and would be the best alternative to Stafford. Freeman is just physical, that's all he'll be known for and that's all the draft experts want him for. And Tebow is a boyscout with a clean record.

I hope that Bradford comes out as well, that way if the Lions take Bradford, we'll be waiting.

Also if anyone is hung up on Stafford's INT numbers, go back and look at all the interceptions you can, I think you'll find yourself understanding that most of them are balls that went off the hands of his recievers and into the defenders hands. That's how it has been for the past two years with Stafford, he throws such a bullet, that his recievers sometimes can't catch it with their hands up high or off mark.

[Brock]

No. That's not the argument. Stafford has first round potential. But I would not drain a top 5 pick on him. He's borderline top 10, if even. That's what Russell, Vince Young, and Alex Smith SHOULD have been rated, except that teams desperate for a QB are willing to overrate a QB prospect to fill in their need.

This is the same old shit we heard last year about Ryan.

[chiefzilla1501]

This is the same old shit we heard last year about Ryan.

It's also the same shit we heard 2 years ago about Jamarcus. And 2 years ago about Vince Young and Leinart. It's a huge risk and much riskier than other positions. Historically, they bust over a 50% clip.

[Brock]

It's also the same shit we heard 2 years ago about Jamarcus. And 2 years ago about Vince Young and Leinart. It's a huge risk and much riskier than other positions. Historically, they bust over a 50% clip.

It was obvious to me that all of those guys were going to struggle in the NFL. When you see a guy with all the tools like Stafford, it's a different story.

[sedated]

It's also the same shit we heard 2 years ago about Jamarcus. And 2 years ago about Vince Young and Leinart. It's a huge risk and much riskier than other positions. Historically, they bust over a 50% clip.

maybe Leinart, but most everyone outside of ESPN seemed to know that JaMarcus and Vince would be busts. The hype (and getting national exposure by winning championships) got them drafted that high.

(and I think we can eliminate OAK draft picks from the argument, since its clear they are completely imcompetent from top down)

[chiefzilla1501]

It was obvious to me that all of those guys were going to struggle in the NFL. When you see a guy with all the tools like Stafford, it's a different story.

But he doesn't have all the tools. There are a lot of questions raised about his decision making and his ability to read defenses. Like Jamarcus, they are extremely talented QBs for big-name programs who may or may not be able to make the mental adjustment into the NFL.

I think Stafford is grossly overrated because:
1) He's the best QB in the class, which always lands a QB in the top 5, even if he's not the best player in the draft
2) scouts are often so enamored with raw ability. Jamarcus and Jeff George have had two of the best arms I've seen. But decision making is a huge part of the game. I don't like Stafford's decision making and I think he gets away with a lot of throws in college because of pure arm strength that he'd never make in the pros where the defenses he faces are 10 times better
3) I think he gets a lot of hype because he goes to a top-notch football school. What's interesting about that is that those type of players bust at an extremely high rate. Palmer, Peyton, Jason Campbell and Brady are the few top-notch QBs that came from powerhouse programs, which is strange, because they are always drafted on the first day (rounds 1, 2, 3). The number of busts from these powerhouse programs is extremely high. The top QBs tend to come from mid-tier schools. Why? Because to earn a high draft rating, you have to truly earn it by wowing the scouts. Purdue and BC are not powerhouse programs, but they are QB-producing factories. You've got more unknown school starters than ever (thigpen, warner, romo, Roethlisberger, Bulger, Garrard, Delhomme, McNabb). I don't know exactly why that is, but

I think the reservation behind backing Thigpen is not based on ability, it's based on pedigree and draft rating. I'm not sold on Stafford. I think he's hyped because of his school and his arm strength. I'm not convinced he has enough between the ears to get it done.

[xbarretx]

I think alot of that just stems from the fear of using a high pick on a QB this fanbase has, the team has never done it.

Then alot of people will believe in anyone, we had people believing in Croyle when he had done nothing, and now we got that with Thigpen.

yes but that origionates from the extreme dislike of have Huard in the game. :shrug:

[duncan_idaho]

But he doesn't have all the tools. There are a lot of questions raised about his decision making and his ability to read defenses. Like Jamarcus, they are extremely talented QBs for big-name programs who may or may not be able to make the mental adjustment into the NFL.

I think Stafford is grossly overrated because:
1) He's the best QB in the class, which always lands a QB in the top 5, even if he's not the best player in the draft
2) scouts are often so enamored with raw ability. Jamarcus and Jeff George have had two of the best arms I've seen. But decision making is a huge part of the game. I don't like Stafford's decision making and I think he gets away with a lot of throws in college because of pure arm strength that he'd never make in the pros where the defenses he faces are 10 times better
3) I think he gets a lot of hype because he goes to a top-notch football school. What's interesting about that is that those type of players bust at an extremely high rate. Palmer, Peyton, Jason Campbell and Brady are the few top-notch QBs that came from powerhouse programs, which is strange, because they are always drafted on the first day (rounds 1, 2, 3). The number of busts from these powerhouse programs is extremely high. The top QBs tend to come from mid-tier schools. Why? Because to earn a high draft rating, you have to truly earn it by wowing the scouts. Purdue and BC are not powerhouse programs, but they are QB-producing factories. You've got more unknown school starters than ever (thigpen, warner, romo, Roethlisberger, Bulger, Garrard, Delhomme, McNabb). I don't know exactly why that is, but

I think the reservation behind backing Thigpen is not based on ability, it's based on pedigree and draft rating. I'm not sold on Stafford. I think he's hyped because of his school and his arm strength. I'm not convinced he has enough between the ears to get it done.

That's well put. Nice work.

[the Talking Can]

people don't want to draft stafford for two easy reasons:


1. they're stupid

2. "it's risky"

you'll never change true fans....

[the Talking Can]

But he doesn't have all the tools. There are a lot of questions raised about his decision making and his ability to read defenses. Like Jamarcus, they are extremely talented QBs for big-name programs who may or may not be able to make the mental adjustment into the NFL.

I think Stafford is grossly overrated because:
1) He's the best QB in the class, which always lands a QB in the top 5, even if he's not the best player in the draft
2) scouts are often so enamored with raw ability. Jamarcus and Jeff George have had two of the best arms I've seen. But decision making is a huge part of the game. I don't like Stafford's decision making and I think he gets away with a lot of throws in college because of pure arm strength that he'd never make in the pros where the defenses he faces are 10 times better
3) I think he gets a lot of hype because he goes to a top-notch football school. What's interesting about that is that those type of players bust at an extremely high rate. Palmer, Peyton, Jason Campbell and Brady are the few top-notch QBs that came from powerhouse programs, which is strange, because they are always drafted on the first day (rounds 1, 2, 3). The number of busts from these powerhouse programs is extremely high. The top QBs tend to come from mid-tier schools. Why? Because to earn a high draft rating, you have to truly earn it by wowing the scouts. Purdue and BC are not powerhouse programs, but they are QB-producing factories. You've got more unknown school starters than ever (thigpen, warner, romo, Roethlisberger, Bulger, Garrard, Delhomme, McNabb). I don't know exactly why that is, but

I think the reservation behind backing Thigpen is not based on ability, it's based on pedigree and draft rating. I'm not sold on Stafford. I think he's hyped because of his school and his arm strength. I'm not convinced he has enough between the ears to get it done.

how the hell can you have watched him play and compare him to russell?

they are completely different...stafford is smarter, reads D better, audibles better, and can scramble better.....fuck...at least be honest...

their games are totally different....

[Saul Good]

No. But if you're talking about the top 5, you sure as hell better get Elway or Palmer.

Funny thing is, you keep bringing up Tennessee, but don't mention that they used a #3 pick on a QB a few years ago. How'd that pick work out for them?

This is an excellent point. Obviously there are 5 players that impact a franchise on the level of a Carson Palmer and a John Elway in every draft.

On an unrelated note, NBA teams should only draft Shaq and LeBron in the first round.

[mylittlepony]

how the hell can you have watched him play and compare him to russell?

they are completely different...stafford is smarter, reads D better, audibles better, and can scramble better.....****...at least be honest...

their games are totally different....

Im going to be the bigger man then to argue about this. Its retarded.

[SAUTO]

I think alot of that just stems from the fear of using a high pick on a QB this fanbase has, the team has never done it.

Then alot of people will believe in anyone, we had people believing in Croyle when he had done nothing, and now we got that with Thigpen.

blackledge wasnt a high pick? 1st rounder, thats pretty high

[SAUTO]

There's no 'safe pick" anymore people use to say OT was then we got Robert Gallery...

Every single talened big arm QB isn't Ryan Leaf people need to come off that, under that guise Carson Palmer should have scared the shit out of you.

who's the "we" you're talking about? the raiders drafted gallery not "us". enough said

[SAUTO]

The thing is lost here is you don't win anything without the QB, now you have to put things around him but building without the QB gets you the 90s Chiefs. Or if you're lucky maybe you're one of the mixed in teams that won in space of the franchise QB's a Tampa or Baltimore.

The Chiefs had the best Oline in football and couldn't even win a playoff game with it.

that had more to do with the offensive philosophy and terrible defense than the QB. do you ACTUALLY think trent green couldnt have won us a SB?

[SAUTO]

Cool if you wanna build to be the 90s Chiefs be my guest, you won't win a Superbowl with it.

And that was suppose to say I'm not a fan of Young.

because he beat your boys???

[SAUTO]

now look guys i'm ALL for drafting a qb high BUT, it has to be a guy who is for sure for real, is stafford? i dont know. sometimes the guy looks like he's a GREAT QB, sometimes he looks as though his head is shoved up his ass

[SAUTO]

Watch me rail the Titans....

You use a top 5 pick on a QB from the spread option offense that ran zone read 75% of the time with a fucked up throwing motion that isn't a good passer...

You follow that by taking a douchebag corner that can't stay out of trouble in the top 10..

Not to mention you draft a RB in the first 2 rounds 3 years in a row by going 2 2 and 1.
and now they are 8-0

[SAUTO]

And it required the best defense of the last 20 years...and they only won 1 time with it...that should tell you something about that strategy.

you have to be a GREAT team to win more than one. Sounds to me like if the chiefs won a SB you would be the fucker who gets on here and says: yeah but it means NOTHING if they dont win another.

[ChiefGator]

You know what argument needs to be retired? "I wouldn't draft player X in the top 10, because he isn't good enough." There are going to be ten top 10 draft picks this year. No team is just going to forgoe it since they think this year noone is worth the #1 overall pick. If you don't think Stafford is worth a #5 pick, list the five players you have higher on your board then him.

[ChiefGator]

Not to mention you draft a RB in the first 2 rounds 3 years in a row by going 2 2 and 1.

[/B]
and now they are 8-0

I know... that's what I was thinking. And now they have a damn good running attack. Yeah, sucks to be them.

[SAUTO]

You know what argument needs to be retired? "I wouldn't draft player X in the top 10, because he isn't good enough." There are going to be ten top 10 draft picks this year. No team is just going to forgoe it since they think this year noone is worth the #1 overall pick. If you don't think Stafford is worth a #5 pick, list the five players you have higher on your board then him.

me? i would work out stafford and then if i felt he was THE GUY draft him no matter the spot. but like i said before sometimes he looks like he's lost.

[ChiefGator]

In most years, it would be safe to argue that ALL of the players in the Top 10 are expected to be elite players.

But by nature of being the most important position on the field, QB's are thrust into the Top 5-10 when they don't neccessarily belong there - based on position alone.

Damn straight, because the QB position is the most important position on the team.

Let's just say we throw all the players in the NFL into a group and we break off into backyard teams where we call players. 5 of the top 10 would be Qbs. A great RB has less shelf life than a QB, and noone changes your fortune like a great Qb.

A higher failure rate corresponds to the greater reward possible.

[ChiefGator]

me? i would work out stafford and then if i felt he was THE GUY draft him no matter the spot. but like i said before sometimes he looks like he's lost.

Yeah, but he looks good in red. I don't feel that he is the next coming of Elway, but I have only seen about eight quarters of his play this year, and most of that was the Gator game. But he does look good for a young college player.

Mostly though, one can't be afraid of taking the ultimate gamble, because it promises the ultimate reward.

[SAUTO]

Damn straight, because the QB position is the most important position on the team.

Let's just say we throw all the players in the NFL into a group and we break off into backyard teams where we call players. 5 of the top 10 would be Qbs. A great RB has less shelf life than a QB, and noone changes your fortune like a great Qb.

A higher failure rate corresponds to the greater reward possible.

5 qbs for 2 teams?? lol

[chiefzilla1501]

You know what argument needs to be retired? "I wouldn't draft player X in the top 10, because he isn't good enough." There are going to be ten top 10 draft picks this year. No team is just going to forgoe it since they think this year noone is worth the #1 overall pick. If you don't think Stafford is worth a #5 pick, list the five players you have higher on your board then him.

My argument is that rather than forcing yourself to take a player just because he's BPA, you should always trade down even if the trade value doesn't match the draft chart.

Here's an example. I'm high on Dorsey, but a trade to the Saints could have landed the Chiefs (based on the draft chart), the Saints' first and second round pick. That could have gotten the Chiefs Jerrod Mayo and Eddie Royal. I don't think it's the best example, because most experts believed that Dorsey was a top 5 pick and because DT fills a position of need, but clearly we can see the value in trading down instead of settling for BPA. Why get one player you half need when you can trade down and get two players you need?

[SAUTO]

My argument is that rather than forcing yourself to take a player just because he's BPA, you should always trade down even if the trade value doesn't match the draft chart.

Here's an example. I'm high on Dorsey, but a trade to the Saints could have landed the Chiefs (based on the draft chart), the Saints' first and second round pick. That could have gotten the Chiefs Jerrod Mayo and Eddie Royal. I don't think it's the best example, because most experts believed that Dorsey was a top 5 pick and because DT fills a position of need, but clearly we can see the value in trading down instead of settling for BPA. Why get one player you half need when you can trade down and get two players you need?

or ellis & royal

[chiefzilla1501]

people don't want to draft stafford for two easy reasons:


1. they're stupid

2. "it's risky"

you'll never change true fans....

You forgot the biggest one:
If Thigpen ends up being a solid long-term starter
OR
If Stafford ends up busting (over 50% chance of that, based on history)
then you're paying $70 million for a guy who never contributes to this team and you give up the chance to draft a guy like Orakpo or Maualuga or Mays, who all play positions that succeed at a far higher rate in the top 10 of the draft.

Furthermore, if Orakpo fails, he can still contribute as a rotational DE--you can never have too many good linemen. If Maualuga fails, you could probably move him to one of the other LB spots. If Mays fails, you can move him to nickel or dime packages. If you draft a receiver, he could be a #1, #2, or #3 receiver. If Stafford fails, he is a complete waste.

Again, if you're going to draft a QB in the top 5, you better be damn sure he is an Elway or Palmer type QB. If he's not, then look for BPA in a position of need (no reason in the top 5 to draft a position you don't need--see Oakland Raiders). If there's nobody that fits that profile, then trade down, even if the compensation doesn't exactly match the draft chart.

[ChiefGator]

5 qbs for 2 teams?? lol

Did I say 2 teams?

[ChiefsCountry]

My argument is that rather than forcing yourself to take a player just because he's BPA, you should always trade down even if the trade value doesn't match the draft chart.

Here's an example. I'm high on Dorsey, but a trade to the Saints could have landed the Chiefs (based on the draft chart), the Saints' first and second round pick. That could have gotten the Chiefs Jerrod Mayo and Eddie Royal. I don't think it's the best example, because most experts believed that Dorsey was a top 5 pick and because DT fills a position of need, but clearly we can see the value in trading down instead of settling for BPA. Why get one player you half need when you can trade down and get two players you need?

I would rather have Dorsey.

[chiefzilla1501]

I would rather have Dorsey.

I would too. But it just so happens that Dorsey was a great value pick in a position we badly needed to upgrade. Just wanted to show how much value you can get from a #1 pick by trading down. Lots of first round teams end up reaching for a player because they're afraid to trade down.

[Mecca]

who's the "we" you're talking about? the raiders drafted gallery not "us". enough said

We as in players entering the NFL, no position is safe...not taking a position because you consider it risky is a really dumb argument.

[Mecca]

I know... that's what I was thinking. And now they have a damn good running attack. Yeah, sucks to be them.

You think they're really set up to be good for a long time.....the truth is they aren't and they are benefiting from a weak schedule and a down league...

They have 2 nice RB's that they used a 1st and 2nd round pick on and another guy they used a 2 on that is a complete scrub and I'm not even if he's still on their team...

Start rolling through their team it's very questionable how well they are setup for the long haul.

[Mr. Laz]

drafting a QB in the top 5 with Herm and Carl in charge still makes my stomach queasy.

[milkman]

You know, if Carson Palmer had faced the kind of pressure that Stafford faces on a weekly basis, he very likely would have thrown some of the same kind of picks that Stafford has thrown.

Everytime Peyton Manning faced the Pats or the Steelers in the playoffs and was pressured, his decison making seem to take a hit.

Talented QBs, especially those with strong arms, tend to try ro make plays, and sometimes make mistakes.

See Brett Favre.

[orange]

There's that name again. Carson Palmer.

WTF is Carson Palmer? Trent Green in his six years with the Chiefs was better than Carson Palmer has been in six years with Cincinatti.

Why the hell is this guy being held up as some sort of paragon of quarterbacking? If anything, he's an example of why drafting a QB no. 1 is no guarantee of success.

Has Mecca got you all snowed?

[beach tribe]

Every great QB was a risk when they were picked. With no risk there is usually 0 reward. Some people are just too scared to build a Championship team. Carl is one of them. They would much rather be very good, than take the risk necessary to be a powerhouse who has a has legit shot at the SB for years. Above average QBs have won a couple of SBs collectively. None won multiple, or hardly even been a threat to do it twice or more.
I'm ready to take that HUGE gamble on an Aikman type. I don't want to be good anymore. I want to win the SUPER BOWL. I want to win multiple SBs. I want KC to finally reach the top, and stay there, and there is no way around taking big risks to get there. The SB is the goal. Nothing else.

[Mecca]

There's that name again. Carson Palmer.

WTF is Carson Palmer? Trent Green in his six years with the Chiefs was better than Carson Palmer has been in six years with Cincinatti.

Why the hell is this guy being held up as some sort of paragon of quarterbacking? If anything, he's an example of why drafting a QB no. 1 is no guarantee of success.

Has Mecca got you all snowed?

Because it's pretty well acknowledge that the best QB prospect since 2000 is Carson Palmer.

And to be frank it isn't his fault his team is retarded and hasn't done anything else, he got the Bengals to the playoffs that alone says alot for him.

[milkman]

There's that name again. Carson Palmer.

WTF is Carson Palmer? Trent Green in his six years with the Chiefs was better than Carson Palmer has been in six years with Cincinatti.

Why the hell is this guy being held up as some sort of paragon of quarterbacking? If anything, he's an example of why drafting a QB no. 1 is no guarantee of success.

Has Mecca got you all snowed?

Because Carson Palmer was that QB that everyone agreed on.
He was as close to a sure thing as any QB coming out in years.

He was on his way to fulfilling his promise of becoming the next great QB, and the consensus third best in the league before injuries sidetracked him.

And yes, Trent Green put up some great numbers in his years with the Chiefs, but he was, in large part, a product of the system and one the best O-Lines ever.

He wasn't a scrub, but neither was he a franchise type that you build an offense around.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

There's that name again. Carson Palmer.

WTF is Carson Palmer? Trent Green in his six years with the Chiefs was better than Carson Palmer has been in six years with Cincinatti.

Why the hell is this guy being held up as some sort of paragon of quarterbacking? If anything, he's an example of why drafting a QB no. 1 is no guarantee of success.

Has Mecca got you all snowed?

Carson Palmer before his knee injury was already an elite quarterback...in his third year.

[the Talking Can]

well, since no qb coming out will ever meet this mythical standard of perfection that scared true fans use, we'll never draft one....how convenient....

[orange]

well, since no qb coming out will ever meet this mythical standard of perfection that scared true fans use, we'll never draft one....how convenient....

I'm all for the Chiefs drafting a QB - BUT - some people on have said they don't want to see that happen while Edwards/Peterson are still here, and their point is a strong one. Carson Palmer is the perfect example of that pitfall.

Consider - what if the Chiefs draft a great QB and he "lifts" them to 8-8 (Palmer's typical record)? Will they EVER get rid of Herm/Carl?

What about 8-8, 11-5, 8-8, 8-8, 0-4 (and counting). Does that look good for the Chiefs future? It looks alot like the Chiefs' recent past to me.

P.S. Trent Green's KC success was AFTER a devastating knee injury. What's Palmer's excuse again? And do you want to compare the Bengals' defense and receivers to Vermeil's?

[orange]

Because it's pretty well acknowledge that the best QB prospect since 2000 is Carson Palmer.


I'm not sure, but I seem to recall Eli Manning and Phillip Rivers coming in with just as much hype. If not, we're talking about 10.0 vs. 9.5 type hype. And Eli has actually delivered.

Still, I see messages on this thread like "... a stud like Elway, Peyton or Carson Palmer" and I have to roll my eyes. Two first-ballot Hall of Famers - one of whom is always in the argument for the best PLAYER ever - versus a guy who's barely a game or two over .500 - please!

[mylittlepony]

Because Carson Palmer was that QB that everyone agreed on.
He was as close to a sure thing as any QB coming out in years.

He was on his way to fulfilling his promise of becoming the next great QB, and the consensus third best in the league before injuries sidetracked him.

And yes, Trent Green put up some great numbers in his years with the Chiefs, but he was, in large part, a product of the system and one the best O-Lines ever.

He wasn't a scrub, but neither was he a franchise type that you build an offense around.

What I loved about what Cincy did is they put him in a position to succeed. He had great weapons with Chad Johnson and Housh. He had a perenial probowler at RT in Willie Anderson. I think we need to do the same thing if we get Stafford. It isnt enough to simply have a talented QB but to also put him in a position to make plays and win games. Im sure Carsons learning curve would have been severly slower if he wasnt put in such a good position. This is really something the chiefs want to replicate.

[orange]

What I loved about what Cincy did is they put him in a position to succeed. He had great weapons with Chad Johnson and Housh. He had a perenial probowler at RT in Willie Anderson. I think we need to do the same thing if we get Stafford. It isnt enough to simply have a talented QB but to also put him in a position to make plays and win games. Im sure Carsons learning curve would have been severly slower if he wasnt put in such a good position. This is really something the chiefs want to replicate.

And don't forget Rudi Johnson, who was doing a very good Priest Holmes imitation.

[chiefzilla1501]

I'm not sure, but I seem to recall Eli Manning and Phillip Rivers coming in with just as much hype. If not, we're talking about 10.0 vs. 9.5 type hype. And Eli has actually delivered.

Still, I see messages on this thread like "... a stud like Elway, Peyton or Carson Palmer" and I have to roll my eyes. Two first-ballot Hall of Famers - one of whom is always in the argument for the best PLAYER ever - versus a guy who's barely a game or two over .500 - please!

Eli had a lot of hype. A lot of people were concerned about Rivers' sidearm delivery and Big Ben--a loooot of hype, but some were concerned about his lack of experience against top competition. As for Palmer, I think you're being too tough on the guy. He's been pretty phenomenal up to this year, but the Bengals' defense was as bad as the Vermeil Chiefs' defense was. But... Palmer has only been as good as his o-line has been. That's a strong lesson--you can build around the QB, but you also need to give him support elsewhere. What I've really liked about Thigpen is he's thrived even with mediocre talent to surround him. He's done well the last 2 games without LJ and with a below average offensive line. What would he do with some real talent to surround him?

After looking at history, I'm torn. 6 of the last 8 Super Bowl QBs over 3 years were first round picks. But before that, the previous 6 QBs were drafted in the 4th round or lower (Delhomme, Brady twice, Gannon, Brad Johnson, Warner).

I don't know. We talk a lot about taking risks, and I understand that, but I think there's such a large hesitation to mortgage our future on Thigpen not because of his ability, but because of his pedigree. He didn't go to a powerhouse football school and he was drafted low. If Thigpen plays really well the rest of the season, what is the hesitation on mortgaging our future on him? It's completely different from Croyle, who we picked as QBOTF in spite of not producing anything on the field. Which begs the question on a previous thread: if Thigpen plays well the last 8 games, why are we so reluctant to mortgage our future on him? Keep in mind that Hasselbeck and Brady, two of the league's better QBs, were also picked in the 6th. I understand getting an insurance policy in that case, but not a $70 million insurance policy.

[ChiefsCountry]

I would love to play poker with some of you guys.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I would love to play poker with some of you guys.

Yeah.

If only poker was a game where you could be betting your pocket aces hard preflop, on the flop and on the turn, only to be forced to switch cards with the guy that is holding 7-2 on the river...

[eazyb81]

Well, that was an NFL play if I've ever seen one.

For those that missed it, Stafford avoided the sack, ran out of the pocket towards the sideline, and on the run fired a laser to the corner of the endzone for the go ahead TD with 1 min left in the 4th quarter.

[Gravedigger]

That's why Matt Stafford is "the guy". His comback ability and ability to stay cool in the pocket under pressure is why he should be our next QB.

17 for 27, 376 yards 13.9 YPA 3 TD 0 INT, the Georgia defense sucks, Matt Stafford is the reason they might win against Kentucky. If they lose, it's on the defense and not on Stafford at all.

[Mr. Laz]

Well, that was an NFL play if I've ever seen one.

For those that missed it, Stafford avoided the sack, ran out of the pocket towards the sideline, and on the run fired a laser to the corner of the endzone for the go ahead TD with 1 min left in the 4th quarter.

and Herm could destroy him without even breaking a sweat



btw - i would describe the pass as more of a lob than a laser LMAO

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Yeah.

If only poker was a game where you could be betting your pocket aces hard preflop, on the flop and on the turn, only to be forced to switch cards with the guy that is holding 7-2 on the river...

Fortunately, poker is a game where those who are guided by fear always lose, which is why he made the above statement.

[SAUTO]

Well, that was an NFL play if I've ever seen one.

For those that missed it, Stafford avoided the sack, ran out of the pocket towards the sideline, and on the run fired a laser to the corner of the endzone for the go ahead TD with 1 min left in the 4th quarter.

That's why Matt Stafford is "the guy". His comback ability and ability to stay cool in the pocket under pressure is why he should be our next QB.
17 for 27, 376 yards 13.9 YPA 3 TD 0 INT, the Georgia defense sucks, Matt Stafford is the reason they might win against Kentucky. If they lose, it's on the defense and not on Stafford at all.

kinda contradicts doesnt it. i saw the play and it WAS a GREAT throw. he's had a great game today. but he might come back wih a terrible throw into double coverage for an int.
I'M not questioning his arm, mobility, speed, size, comeback ability, or leadership ability. it's his decision making that i question

[SAUTO]

Fortunately, poker is a game where those who are guided by fear always lose, which is why he made the above statement.

REALLY?? i played with a bunch of guys last night, got up early played conservatively the rest of the night and walked with much fatter pockets than when i arrived

[Gravedigger]

Decision making is a rookie thing, it can be worked through if given the chance. So if you have average decision making (up and down) but you have all the other intangibles pretty much perfect, then that's a damn good quarterback in my book.

And it doesn't contradict itself, staying cool in the pocket under pressure is the definition of what it was. He avoided a sack, rolled out, stayed calm, and delivered the game winning TD pass. That's a quarterback I want leading the Chiefs.

[SAUTO]

We as in players entering the NFL, no position is safe...not taking a position because you consider it risky is a really dumb argument.

one of us entered the nfl? i just dont get what the we meant.

[SAUTO]

Did I say 2 teams?

no, but how many backyard football teams do you have when you play?

[the Talking Can]

kinda contradicts doesnt it. i saw the play and it WAS a GREAT throw. he's had a great game today. but he might come back wih a terrible throw into double coverage for an int.
I'M not questioning his arm, mobility, speed, size, comeback ability, or leadership ability. it's his decision making that i question

that's such a cop out....you haven't even watched the guy

every QB in college has "decision making" you can question...that is a pointless complaint

stafford reads defenses and audibles better than any qb in college..period

he makes mistakes trying to do to much because he has to carry his team and its shitty defense...

he consistently makes great decisions, and great throws, as today was only further evidence...

all these vague complaints are just true fan excuses to not draft a qb

you can't have watched him play all year and not see it....

[SAUTO]

that's such a cop out....you haven't even watched the guy
every QB in college has "decision making" you can question...that is a pointless complaint

stafford reads defenses and audibles better than any qb in college..period

he makes mistakes trying to do to much because he has to carry his team and its shitty defense...

he consistently makes great decisions, and great throws, as today was only further evidence...

all these vague complaints are just true fan excuses to not draft a qb

you can't have watched him play all year and not see it....

dont fucking tell me what i've done. I HAVE watched most of his games this season. yeah he does make some good throws and good decisions. BUT UNDER PRESSURE HE MAKES STUPID ASS MISTAKES. not all the time but often enough to make me wonder.
the underlined part is the reason i'm worried, thats the kind of team we have also, a GREAT qb would understand the limitations and maybe try to take whats given to you instead of forcing so much

[RustShack]

When you have a bad Oline and not very good WR's you aren't given much. If you take what you are given in that situation you don't move the ball and lose the game. Great QB's can make something out of nothing, and Stafford has done that many times.

[SAUTO]

When you have a bad Oline and not very good WR's you aren't given much. If you take what you are given in that situation you don't move the ball and lose the game. Great QB's can make something out of nothing, and Stafford has done that many times.
you're right but he has also thrown int's when nothing is there

[Brock]

He's a 20 year old kid. Chances are pretty good that whatever minor mental hiccups you're pointing out are going to work themselves out as he matures.

[SAUTO]

Once again i'm going to STRESS that i'm not against stafford. just see that some guys are so sure and want to put a different perspactive out there. not unlike after the mizzou-illinois game, i questioned the miz defense, MOST poeple slammed me for it, juice is great they said. the next week juice didnt throw for shit against a FAR inferior team. still the d is ok its ok. but now we ALL know its not ok. so to put out a different perspective maybe some will see that it may not be all peaches and cream with stafford.

[SAUTO]

He's a 20 year old kid. Chances are pretty good that whatever minor mental hiccups you're pointing out are going to work themselves out as he matures.

not with lip curl as a coach. it may be minor but how do we know that?

[Brock]

not with lip curl as a coach. it may be minor but how do we know that?

It's minor because his overall play says it is. Who our coaches are now is not relevant to what Stafford is.

[RustShack]

[/B]
you're right but he has also thrown int's when nothing is there

Yeah I guess QB's like Matt Ryan, Jay Cutler, and Brett Favre will never make a good QB either.

[SAUTO]

It's minor because his overall play says it is. Who our coaches are now is not relevant to what Stafford is.
thats true BUT who our coaches are is relavant to who he would become right?

[Brock]

[/B]
thats true BUT who our coaches are is relavant to who he would become right?

Coaches come and go.

[Brock]

Besides, Curl seems to have coached up Tyler Thigpen just fine.

[SAUTO]

Yeah I guess QB's like Matt Ryan, Jay Cutler, and Brett Favre will never make a good QB either.

did i EVER say he wouldnt be a good qb? NO all i said id tat he may not be worth a top 5 pick and the 70 mil that comes with it, and ONCE AGAIN if the team is SURE then i will be all over it but if there are some question marks then ????

[SAUTO]

Besides, Curl seems to have coached up Tyler Thigpen just fine.

IMO gailey had more to do with that

[SAUTO]

Coaches come and go.

yep and gailey will probably be the one going with the way the status quo has been lately

[Brock]

IMO gailey had more to do with that

:shrug:

[SAUTO]

:shrug:

reason i say that is: its obvious that gailey has had a larger role in the last few weeks, and before that did we EVER see any progression from any qb? but now all of a sudden someone has talked to thiggy and got him out of the habits that led to the soaring of the ball. use printers as an example: he fumbled ALOT of snaps, why why why didnt curl figure out what was wrong and correct it? shouldnt have too much causing that problem. but NO no answers from curl. now we have a guy who's passes soar, in atl almost EVERY pass was 8 foot or higher, now a couple of weeeks later the guy's throwing mostly darts, what made the change?? if you ask me curl isnt smart enough to figure out a plan of attack to fix the wrongs. He was brought here to manage the clock IIRC. the fucker couldnt even do THAT competently

[mylittlepony]

I would love to play poker with some of you guys.

Me too. Cause in poker you can atleast call people on their BS. And its very easy too see who is full of it.

Oh, and thats not directed towards you.

[SAUTO]

Me too. Cause in poker you can atleast call people on their BS. And its very easy too see who is full of it.

Oh, and thats not directed towards you.

that could get expensive though

[RustShack]

did i EVER say he wouldnt be a good qb? NO all i said id tat he may not be worth a top 5 pick and the 70 mil that comes with it, and ONCE AGAIN if the team is SURE then i will be all over it but if there are some question marks then ????

I don't think there as ever been a QB to come out and be perfect in every aspect.

[ChiefsCountry]

Stafford's decision making is really his only flaw but its a very very correctable one. He trusts his arm to much which is good and bad, but you can work with it easily.

[SAUTO]

I don't think there as ever been a QB to come out and be perfect in every aspect.
true true. like i said with the way some are touting the guy i was/am trying to puy a different perspective out there. I can see the pro's and con's of the guy, the upside probably does outweigh the downside. but who the hell knows until he gets in a REAL nfl game. you dont see many 17-27 376 games in the nfl. (unless you are playing DV's chiefs)

[SAUTO]

Stafford's decision making is really his only flaw but its a very very correctable one. He trusts his arm to much which is good and bad, but you can work with it easily.

its funny how some here HATE FAVRE but love stafford. who would work with him?? i just feel as though we would need to change EVERYTHING to let a young QB succeed.


SOME NEVER CHANGE their decision making never gets better. you can teach all you want but when the chips are down...

[mylittlepony]

that could get expensive though

Haha, Im great at grinding but if I sat down at a table like this place I'd be the biggest calling station in the history of poker.

[SAUTO]

Haha, Im great at grinding but if I sat down at a table like this place I'd be the biggest calling station in the history of poker.

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhahahahaha

[eazyb81]

true true. like i said with the way some are touting the guy i was/am trying to puy a different perspective out there.

Honestly, it just seems like you're arguing for the sake of arguing.


I can see the pro's and con's of the guy, the upside probably does outweigh the downside. but who the hell knows until he gets in a REAL nfl game. you dont see many 17-27 376 games in the nfl. (unless you are playing DV's chiefs)

No one is saying he's a sure fire HOF player. What we are saying is that he's a fantastic QB prospect, which is a fact. No one has a crystal ball to predict how he'll actually perform, and no one is trying to either.

[milkman]

its funny how some here HATE FAVRE but love stafford. who would work with him?? i just feel as though we would need to change EVERYTHING to let a young QB succeed.


SOME NEVER CHANGE their decision making never gets better. you can teach all you want but when the chips are down...

The problem with Farve is that he never outgrew his propensity for poor decision making under pressure.

Still, I would take a young Favre over any QB the Chiefs have had in the last 30 years.

[SAUTO]

Honestly, it just seems like you're arguing for the sake of arguing.


No one is saying he's a sure fire HOF player. What we are saying is that he's a fantastic QB prospect, which is a fact. No one has a crystal ball to predict how he'll actually perform, and no one is trying to either.

THIS is an argument? wow i thought we were just shooting the shit.
speak for yourself here "some glorify stafford like no other"(and THAT came from my rep page)

[SAUTO]

The problem with Farve is that he never outgrew his propensity for poor decision making under pressure.

Still, I would take a young Favre over any QB the Chiefs have had in the last 30 years.

me too MM me too hell i was all for trying to trade for him this year. like i've said i'm just throwing out the other side.

[eazyb81]

THIS is an argument? wow i thought we were just shooting the shit.
speak for yourself here "some glorify stafford like no other"(and THAT came from my rep page)

It shouldn't be, but it sounds like you're trying in vain to argue. You don't really offer any substantive points against Stafford, you just say things like "well, he won't have 376 yards in the NFL....". Seriously, what's the point of even typing that?

[SAUTO]

It shouldn't be, but it sounds like you're trying in vain to argue. You don't really offer any substantive points against Stafford, you just say things like "well, he won't have 376 yards in the NFL....". Seriously, what's the point of even typing that?

where did i say that? i was stating that you usually dont see a17-27 376 game, because a team good team will make you dink and dunk them. you know shut down the long stuff.
The substantive point i've tried to make is about his sometimes poor decision making, and the fact that this team probably doesnt have the staff to teach that out of him. you are taking ONE thing turning it around and throwing it back out. makes YOU look stupid. read the whole thread and get back at me dog.

[eazyb81]

where did i say that? i was stating that you usually dont see a17-27 376 game, because a team good team will make you dink and dunk them. you know shut down the long stuff.
The substantive point i've tried to make is about his sometimes poor decision making, and the fact that this team probably doesnt have the staff to teach that out of him. you are taking ONE thing turning it around and throwing it back out. makes YOU look stupid. read the whole thread and get back at me dog.

Okay guy. Keep making those awesome points. You should go to law school.

[SAUTO]

Okay guy. Keep making those awesome points. You should go to law school.

maybe YOU should. lawyers always gloss over the true points someone is trying to make, just like you.
Georgia is a team built JUST like us and he freaks out sometimes and makes AWFUL decisions. what is to say that would change just because he got drafted?
sounds like you want to argue and yeah i'm not arguing wit ya today buddy:D

[chiefs1111]

I would love to see Stafford here next year,but can you imagine if Dick Curl is still here then??? If we do manage to land Stafford,I really hope Curl won't be QB coach cause he is awful and I think he will ruin Stafford...

[SAUTO]

I would love to see Stafford here next year,but can you imagine if Dick Curl is still here then??? If we do manage to land Stafford,I really hope Curl won't be QB coach cause he is awful and I think he will ruin Stafford...

THIS

[the Talking Can]

where did i say that? i was stating that you usually dont see a17-27 376 game, because a team good team will make you dink and dunk them. you know shut down the long stuff.
The substantive point i've tried to make is about his sometimes poor decision making, and the fact that this team probably doesn't have the staff to teach that out of him. you are taking ONE thing turning it around and throwing it back out. makes YOU look stupid. read the whole thread and get back at me dog.

that isn't a "substantive point"....it's a vague criticism that applies to literally any college QB....it's an excuse masquerading as a legitimate criticism

you can't not have watched him play all year and make this pointless claim....

relying on stats to judge him is just wrong

and which non-spread-offense QB doesn't "sometimes make a poor decision"?

true fans drive me ****ing insane....Stafford isn't good enough for them....just let that sink in....

[SAUTO]

that isn't a "substantive point"....it's a vague criticism that applies to literally any college QB....it's an excuse masquerading as a legitimate criticism

you can't not have watched him play all year and make this pointless claim....

relying on stats to judge him is just wrong

and which non-spread-offense QB doesn't "sometimes make a poor decision"?

true fans drive me ****ing insane....Stafford isn't good enough for them....just let that sink in....

see thats the thing i have watched him, i have seen all the great throws i also have seen the terrible ones. you cant have watched him all year and not have seen this also...
i'm NOT a stat guy i watch and make my decisions for myself. he looks great and then looks like shit.
you will probably be the first guy to bash him the first time he costs us the game.

[SAUTO]

you know this is probably all moot he might be gone when we pick. and he might not even declare

[the Talking Can]

Stafford has a 140 QB rating and a 60% completion percentage on a pretty average squad with a terrible defense...


but he isn't good enough for the Chiefs....i guess

[SAUTO]

Stafford has a 140 QB rating and a 60% completion percentage on a pretty average squad with a terrible defense...


but he isn't good enough for the Chiefs....i guess

didnt say that EVER now did i? his teams defense has something to do with this?

Did you watch the florida game?? he looked great there didnt he?

[Mr. Laz]

no offense meant to stafford ...... but anyone who thinks that our crappy coaching wouldn't have a negative effect of the development on a young quarterback is just being silly.

[mylittlepony]

Stafford has a 140 QB rating and a 60% completion percentage on a pretty average squad with a terrible defense...


but he isn't good enough for the Chiefs....i guess

Georgia has a terrible Defense now? Overexagerate much?

[milkman]

no offense meant to stafford ...... but anyone who thinks that our crappy coaching wouldn't have a negative effect of the development on a young quarterback is just being silly.

Since everyone of our coaches suck, we should just trade all of our draft picks.

[Mr. Laz]

Since everyone of our coaches suck, we should just trade all of our draft picks.
no, i would trade our coaches.


the Quarterback position is a very fragile position and extremely "coach" dependent ..... more so than all the other positions.

you know this, mr. ijustwannabeapainintheass.


:)

[milkman]

no, i would trade our coaches.


the Quarterback position is a very fragile position and extremely "coach" dependent ..... more so than all the other positions.

you know this, mr. ijustwannabeapainintheass.


:)

You're making a true fan argument against drafting the most important position on the field.

[Mecca]

For these people making the decision making arguments you do realize he even as a true junior is one of the youngest starting QB's in all of the country right? He's a 20 year old junior...

I really don't get this opposition, Stafford is everything you want in a QB. He's carrying his team, he has all the physical tools. He has shown progression and development every year in a tough conference.

[Mr. Laz]

You're making a true fan argument against drafting the most important position on the field.
how so?

[Mecca]

how so?

Because that argument is basically "if we pick him he'll suck anyway"

[the Talking Can]

Georgia has a terrible Defense now? Overexagerate much?

yes, their defense stinks...anyone who has watched them knows that...they just gave up 38 to kentucky, who hadn't scored more than 21 in a conference game...after giving up 49 to florida and 38 to lsu, whose QB sucks ass...

[Mecca]

SEC defenses tend to be a bit overblown alot of it is bad offense...

Also they lost a DT before the year, and Ellerbee hasn't been playing.

[the Talking Can]

and the argument that we can't draft a qb because of our coaches is frankly retarded....

you don't pass on a franchise qb just because you don't like your coach....good grief....

Stafford would be here a lot longer than that dumbass Herm...


it's amazing the lengths people are going to in order to rationalize a fear of drafting a QB...

"he isn't perfect"
"i haven't watched him, but Daniels has better stats ergo he must be better, since only stats determine your actual skill level"
"our coaches suck, therefore we can't draft anyone"
"i have a headache"
"my grandma died"
"my dog ate my homework"

[Mr. Laz]

Because that argument is basically "if we pick him he'll suck anyway"
no ...... i'm just being realistic


drafting is risky

drafting a QB is even riskier

drafting a QB by a team with a crappy offensive is borderline suicidal

drafting a QB, with a crappy offense, with a stupid head coach is teh doom.


drafting a defensive player or offensive lineman under Herman Edwards stands a much greater chance of success than throwing a young QB to Herm "Grim Reaper" Edwards.



in fact, drafting a top 5 Quarterback is such a huge deal i think the chiefs should hire a QB friendly Head coach JUST BECAUSE of it.


people who ignore the coaching situation specific to drafting are just burying their heads in the sand imo.


AT THE VERY LEAST ...... curl has to go

[milkman]

how so?

Because it's no risk mentality.

Why take a chance when you can get someone else's castoff for next to nothing and reach that same level of mediocrity that KC loves.

[keg in kc]

I wanted Ryan last year, although I was in no way disappointed that Dorsey fell to us. I'm not sure what I'd have done had they both been there.

I'm still not sure Stafford's the guy in '09.

Anyway, I'm in the slow development school talking about QBs. Unless he looks like god in pads during camp, I don't think Stafford or anybody else we draft at the position should see the field until midseason '09 or early '10. Get the line established first so he has a chance for success, and let him spend a lot of time studying film. Bring him along slowly. And I think we need a real quarterback coach in place before we draft anybody. Not Dick Curl.

One thing to consider is what exactly the chiefs are looking for. Do they want a quarterback who can win a game, or are they looking for a game manager who won't lose them one winging the ball. Because it doesn't take a first round pick to get the next Steve Bono.

Not saying that's what *I'm* looking for; it's about what they want.

[Mr. Laz]

Because it's no risk mentality.

Why take a chance when you can get someone else's castoff for next to nothing and reach that same level of mediocrity that KC loves.
i'm all for take big risk and hoping for big reward .... imo you have to to win a super bowl.

BUT ....... there is big risk and then there is stupid risk.

You are talking about BIG,STUPID risk


definition of insane - doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results.

i've watched Marty shottenheimer turn pretty much every young QB and RB to shit while at the same time being able to "strike gold" on defense pretty regularly

then flip-flop

I've watched Dick Vermeil pretty much instantly patch together a top of the league offense while at the same time turning every defensive draftee to shit.

the flip-flop

Herman Edwards ... a guy that hasn't really been worth a shit on either side of the ball. But offense has been a complete 3 stooges event.

how many times we gonna sit here and watch our Head Coach flush resources down the drain on the "other" side of the ball when the real problem is that they suck at it.

nope .... i'm not insane

i want no part of our 3 stooges in fucking up a 50 million dollar, top 5 quarterback draftee.

Carl,Herm,Curl = death of a QB


Chan Gailey would be Stafford's only hope ..... that ups the odds against success incredibly.

[milkman]

i'm all for take big risk and hoping for big reward .... imo you have to to win a super bowl.

BUT ....... there is big risk and then there is stupid risk.

You are talking about BIG,STUPID risk


definition of insane - doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results.

i've watched Marty shottenheimer turn pretty much every young QB and RB to shit while at the same time being able to "strike gold" on defense pretty regularly

then flip-flop

I've watched Dick Vermeil pretty much instantly patch together a top of the league offense while at the same time turning every defensive draftee to shit.

the flip-flop

Herman Edwards ... a guy that hasn't really been worth a shit on either side of the ball. But offense has been a complete 3 stooges event.

how many times we gonna sit here and watch our Head Coach flush resources down the drain on the "other" side of the ball when the real problem is that they suck at it.

nope .... i'm not insane

i want no part of our 3 stooges in ****ing up a 50 million dollar, top 5 quarterback draftee.

Carl,Herm,Curl = death of a QB


Chan Gailey would be Stafford's only hope ..... that ups the odds against success incredibly.

It's a bad argument.

If they still suck after next year, especially on defense, then they won't be around long enough to ruin a franchise QB.

Hell, if we get the first overall, then it's very possible that none of these clowns will be around anyway.

If we don't, then these debates won't matter anyway.

[ChiefsCountry]

Fear of who the coach is a pretty poor excuse not to take a guy IMO.

[Mr. Laz]

It's a bad argument.

If they still suck after next year, especially on defense, then they won't be around long enough to ruin a franchise QB.

Hell, if we get the first overall, then it's very possible that none of these clowns will be around anyway.

If we don't, then these debates won't matter anyway.Fear of who the coach is a pretty poor excuse not to take a guy IMO.
i disagree

imo you should fit the players you draft to the schemes you run and to the coaches you have.


if Herm is fired ...... all bets are off

[Gravedigger]

i disagree

imo you should fix the players you draft to the schemes you run and to the coaches you have.


if Herm is fired ...... all bets are off

fix the players we've drafted to the schemes you run and to the coaches you have?

The only scheme we've changed to accompany a player has been Tyler Thigpen, and we didn't even draft him. The schemes and coaches we have are a moot point for next year because they won't be here. I don't think Gunther will be around, and Herm is as close as a coach gets to being fired.

If we can have a draft like last years where three of the picks are great rookies and a few others are definite guys to watch, we'll be a .500 team next year and in the playoffs the year after.

This city is so scared to draft a quarterback because of that kind of mentality. The last QB we drafted early was Blackledge, and that sucked, so why do that again? Eventually we have to just draft a franchise quarterback in the first round. I'm 25 years old and Blackledge's draft is older than I am... it's just ****ing time. Our coaching staff might suck, but if you draft the best players available, you're going to have a good group of players.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Stafford made a couple of plays today that put my dick on swoll.

[mylittlepony]

yes, their defense stinks...anyone who has watched them knows that...they just gave up 38 to kentucky, who hadn't scored more than 21 in a conference game...after giving up 49 to florida and 38 to lsu, whose QB sucks ass...

Wow you live in a world absolutes. You are defenatly the biggest StaffordBot out there. ROFL

Floridas QB sucks ass... how did they let him score on them, he cant score TDs. Georgia sucks. Apart from last year when he broke the records for scoring. ROFL

This personality cult is getting out of hand.

[the Talking Can]

Wow you live in a world absolutes. You are defenatly the biggest StaffordBot out there. ROFL

Floridas QB sucks ass... how did they let him score on them, he cant score TDs. Georgia sucks. Apart from last year when he broke the records for scoring. ROFL

This personality cult is getting out of hand.

you obviously haven't watched georgia play....their defense sucks....


i'm not interested in the opinions of people who check box scores and think it makes them smart....

[Al Bundy]

i'm all for take big risk and hoping for big reward .... imo you have to to win a super bowl.

BUT ....... there is big risk and then there is stupid risk.

You are talking about BIG,STUPID risk


definition of insane - doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results.

i've watched Marty shottenheimer turn pretty much every young QB and RB to shit while at the same time being able to "strike gold" on defense pretty regularly

then flip-flop

I've watched Dick Vermeil pretty much instantly patch together a top of the league offense while at the same time turning every defensive draftee to shit.

the flip-flop

Herman Edwards ... a guy that hasn't really been worth a shit on either side of the ball. But offense has been a complete 3 stooges event.

how many times we gonna sit here and watch our Head Coach flush resources down the drain on the "other" side of the ball when the real problem is that they suck at it.

nope .... i'm not insane

i want no part of our 3 stooges in ****ing up a 50 million dollar, top 5 quarterback draftee.

Carl,Herm,Curl = death of a QB


Chan Gailey would be Stafford's only hope ..... that ups the odds against success incredibly.

This is where I think your thinking might be flawed, Gailey seems to have quite a bit more say now than in week 5. Taking a QB that high is always high risk, high reward. Chan Gailey freaking made Kordell Stewart a worthwhile NFL QB, hell he even got something out of Reggie Ball at Georgia Tech. I say unless Thigpen really lights it up and if Stafford is there at number3 you have no choice but to take him.

[mylittlepony]

you obviously haven't watched georgia play....their defense sucks....


i'm not interested in the opinions of people who check box scores and think it makes them smart....

I've watched them play against Bama, Gators and LSU. Please direct me to if any of these games where they sucked.

[milkman]

Here's the thing.

Every QB, even the great ones from Johnny Unitas, to Roger Staubaugh, to Dan Marino, to John Elway, to Joe Montana, to Peyton Manning, to Tom Brady, has made mistakes when faced with pressure.

It's why every team wasnts to get pressure on QBs.

The difference is that the great ones have also shown the ability to make plays even in the face of pressure.

They don't make plays each and every time, but you know that they have that ability.

Guys like Bradford, Harrell and McCoy have rarely faced any kind of defensive pressure.

Hell, in games I've watched their uniforms are cleaner than the T-Shirts I've worn while watching them when the games are over.

Of course they look great when they never face pressure and can just sit back and hit wide open receivers.

Has Matt Stafford made mistakes under pressure?
Of course he has.
He is constantly pressured.

On those plays when he does get to sit in the pocket and make throws to wide open recievers, he is every bit as accurate, and throws as pretty a pass as any of those other QBs.

But what he has also shown, in game after game, is that he can make plays with his arm in the face of constant harrassment from the defense.

I'll take a guy with a strong arm who has that ability every time over guys that haven't shown that ability, whose arm strength is questionable.

I'm not saying that none of the other guys has that ability.
I'm just saying that none of them have shown it, and that Matt Stafford has, and he's shown that he can play at a high level even in the face of constant pressure.

[chiefzilla1501]

I'm definitely with you on Bradford. I don't think this is the guy for KC.

Here's the thing.

Every QB, even the great ones from Johnny Unitas, to Roger Staubaugh, to Dan Marino, to John Elway, to Joe Montana, to Peyton Manning, to Tom Brady, has made mistakes when faced with pressure.

It's why every team wasnts to get pressure on QBs.

The difference is that the great ones have also shown the ability to make plays even in the face of pressure.

They don't make plays each and every time, but you know that they have that ability.

Guys like Bradford, Harrell and McCoy have rarely faced any kind of defensive pressure.

Hell, in games I've watched their uniforms are cleaner than the T-Shirts I've worn while watching them when the games are over.

Of course they look great when they never face pressure and can just sit back and hit wide open receivers.

Has Matt Stafford made mistakes under pressure?
Of course he has.
He is constantly pressured.

On those plays when he does get to sit in the pocket and make throws to wide open recievers, he is every bit as accurate, and throws as pretty a pass as any of those other QBs.

But what he has also shown, in game after game, is that he can make plays with his arm in the face of constant harrassment from the defense.

I'll take a guy with a strong arm who has that ability every time over guys that haven't shown that ability, whose arm strength is questionable.

I'm not saying that none of the other guys has that ability.
I'm just saying that none of them have shown it, and that Matt Stafford has, and he's shown that he can play at a high level even in the face of constant pressure.

[chiefzilla1501]

I would love to see Stafford here next year,but can you imagine if Dick Curl is still here then??? If we do manage to land Stafford,I really hope Curl won't be QB coach cause he is awful and I think he will ruin Stafford...

I hated Dick Curl for the longest time. But isn't his job to develop a young QB like Thigpen? Because Thigpen has definitely improved a ton. Shouldn't he get credit for that?

[mylittlepony]

The thing that impressed me the most with Stafford is that I feel he is getting better. This game is the game I've been waiting for. Last year he was held up by that great defense (last year, they are pretty mediocre this year) and a solid running game. He wasnt called upon to win games or to put up huge numbers. But this week that happened, they put the ball in his hands and told him to win it. And he passed that test with flying colors.

Also he is trying to read defenses, after people were bashing him for not being able to do it last year. Where I dont find he is perfect in doing so he is working on his weaknesses to improve and that is a really healthy sign in a future Franchise player.

[58-4ever]

He certainly has the look of a John Elway. They are both fugly mo-fos

[milkman]

He certainly has the look of a John Elway. They are both fugly mo-fos

I don't give a rat's ass if the guy looks like Quasimodo if he can make plays and win games.

[58-4ever]

I don't give a rat's ass if the guy looks like Quasimodo if he can make plays and win games.

I think everyone gets it by now. You love him.

[milkman]

I think everyone gets it by now. You love him.

That post is not specific to Stafford.

I don't care about what the QB of Chiefs looks like, regardless of who it might be, as long as he can make plays and win games.

[mylittlepony]

That post is not specific to Stafford.

I don't care about what the QB of Chiefs looks like, regardless of who it might be, as long as he can make plays and win games.

This is exactly the resoning behind the KC cheerleaders. :cuss:

[Direckshun]

I just read the first 40 posts of this thread, and I'll say this:

I've been right some, wrong some, phenomenally right occasionally, and sometimes phenomenally wrong.

It happens, but it's worth the conversation.

[milkman]

I just read the first 40 posts of this thread, and I'll say this:

I've been right some, wrong some, phenomenally right occasionally, and sometimes phenomenally wrong.

It happens, but it's worth the conversation.

We really appreciate your vague input.

:D

[OnTheWarpath15]

We really appreciate your vague input.

:D

LMAO

[SAUTO]

Here's the thing.

Every QB, even the great ones from Johnny Unitas, to Roger Staubaugh, to Dan Marino, to John Elway, to Joe Montana, to Peyton Manning, to Tom Brady, has made mistakes when faced with pressure.

It's why every team wasnts to get pressure on QBs.

The difference is that the great ones have also shown the ability to make plays even in the face of pressure.

They don't make plays each and every time, but you know that they have that ability.

Guys like Bradford, Harrell and McCoy have rarely faced any kind of defensive pressure.

Hell, in games I've watched their uniforms are cleaner than the T-Shirts I've worn while watching them when the games are over.

Of course they look great when they never face pressure and can just sit back and hit wide open receivers.

Has Matt Stafford made mistakes under pressure?
Of course he has.
He is constantly pressured.

On those plays when he does get to sit in the pocket and make throws to wide open recievers, he is every bit as accurate, and throws as pretty a pass as any of those other QBs.

But what he has also shown, in game after game, is that he can make plays with his arm in the face of constant harrassment from the defense.

I'll take a guy with a strong arm who has that ability every time over guys that haven't shown that ability, whose arm strength is questionable.

I'm not saying that none of the other guys has that ability.
I'm just saying that none of them have shown it, and that Matt Stafford has, and he's shown that he can play at a high level even in the face of constant pressure.

I for one am glad that someone can put down their thoughts and opinions in this form. SEE THIS post if you want to try and get your point across. NEVER once did you tell someone what THEY'VE seen or done, or what they should think. THANK YOU.

[SAUTO]

i LOVE the guys who say decision making is not a substantive point, JaMarcus, leaf are two poeple always bring up, guess what they too had decision making knocks. did either manning or even palmer? I'M NOT SAYING NOT TO GET THE GUY JUST THAT NOT ONE OF US KNOWS WHAT HE WILL BRING. some of us here are ready to crown the guy, well crown him if you want, i for one , am not ready to YET.