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T-post Tom
11-21-2008, 08:19 PM
title change: just trying to garner some interest :)

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/nov2008/db20081121_440892.htm

China Stealing U.S. Computer Data, Says Commission
The top 10 U.S. defense contractors are said to be victims of cyber-espionage through Chinese "penetration of their unclassified networks"
By Keith Epstein

A congressionally created commission has warned that China is stealing vast amounts of sensitive information from government and corporate computer networks in the U.S., including those of the nation's top defense contractors. This theft is part of China's preparation to outmaneuver the U.S. electronically in any future conflict, according to the bipartisan U.S.-China Economic & Security Review Commission.

The panel, established eight years ago, said in its annual report, released on Nov. 20: "China is targeting U.S. government and commercial computers for espionage."

The 10 most prominent U.S. defense contractors are believed to have been "victims of cyber-espionage through penetrations of their unclassified networks," the report said. Among them: Raytheon (RTN), Lockheed Martin (LMT), Boeing (BA), and Northrop Grumman (NOC).

The commission used its own analysts and investigators to compile information on data theft, based on input from defense, military, and intelligence agencies and specialists. Its findings echo the themes of several recent articles in BusinessWeek, which over the past 11 months has published a series on high-tech security threats to U.S. weapons systems and government and defense industry computer networks. The three main installments in the BusinessWeek series were based on previously undisclosed documents and interviews with more than 100 current and former government employees, defense industry executives, and people with ties to U.S. military, space, and intelligence agencies. They are: E-spionage (BusinessWeek, 4/10/08), () Dangerous Fakes (BusinessWeek, 10/2/08), and The Taking of NASA's Secrets (BusinessWeek, 11/20/08).

Spying on NASA
In its report, the China security commission examined the implications of China's pursuit of dominance in cyberspace and outer space. The panel asserted that the Chinese have sought both military secrets from U.S. government networks and lucrative proprietary information from American corporations. The advantage that China has gained from this espionage could reduce current U.S. conventional military dominance in any future conflict, the commission said.

An example of Chinese espionage cited in the report involves an incident in 2005 in which Chinese cyber-burglars downloaded files about the propulsion system, fuel tanks, and solar panels of NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter, an incident with details similar to those described in the BusinessWeek story on secrets stolen from NASA.

The report accused China of "rationalizing" its behavior while "devising unique interpretations" of treaties. That development by China, the report said, "coupled with its military modernization, its development of impressive but disturbing capabilities for military use of space and cyber warfare, and its demonstrated employment of those capabilities, suggest China is intent on expanding its sphere of control even at the expense of its Asian neighbors and the United States."
China, meanwhile, steadfastly denies engaging in any cyber-espionage or attempting to use cyberspace for military advantage. China's Xinhua News Agency quoted Foreign Ministry spokesman Qin Gang on Nov. 21 as calling the commission's report "unworthy of rebuttal." Qin said the commission "always sees China through distorted color spectacles, and intentionally creates obstacles for China-U.S. cooperation" by "smearing China deliberately and misleading the general public."

China Needs Natural Resources, Too
While the Chinese government had no immediate response to a BusinessWeek request for comment, Wang Baodong, a spokesman for the Chinese Embassy in Washington, had earlier said about the magazine's stories: "China will never do anything to harm the sovereignty or security of other countries. The Chinese government has never employed, nor will it employ, so-called civilian hackers in collecting information or intelligence of other countries."

The U.S. commission predicted that China's cyber-activities "quite possibly will be exacerbated by China's growing need for natural resources to support its population and economy that it cannot obtain domestically. The United States should watch these trends closely and act to protect its interests."

Specifically, the commission urged Congress to spend more money to protect the nation's critical computer systems, and to monitor intrusions from abroad. It also recommends that Congress "assess the security and integrity of the supply chain for computer equipment" used in government and contractor networks, and spend more to buy "from trustworthy sources."

Another worry: the global supply chain for telecommunications items and electronic components manufactured in China. "At least in theory, this equipment is vulnerable to tampering by Chinese security services, such as implanting malicious code that could be remotely activated on command and place U.S. systems or the data they contain at risk of destruction or manipulation," the report said. It cited the Oct. 13 Dangerous Fakes BusinessWeek cover story that described how hazardous counterfeits are ending up in U.S. military planes and other weapon systems. The commission pointed to a recent incident in which hundreds of counterfeit routers made in China were discovered in active use throughout the Defense Dept.

Epstein is a correspondent in BusinessWeek's Washington bureau.

SAUTO
11-21-2008, 08:34 PM
ROFL that was great the title change and all thought i would give you a post to help you out.

T-post Tom
11-21-2008, 08:37 PM
ROFL that was great the title change and all thought i would give you a post to help you out.


thank you sir.

StcChief
11-21-2008, 08:42 PM
China more men in the Army then we have people.... hmmm

gain the upper hand elsewhere before they attack.

likely during Obama presidency when they realize how leveraged they are with our debit.

T-post Tom
11-21-2008, 09:27 PM
China more men in the Army then we have people.... hmmm
gain the upper hand elsewhere before they attack.
likely during Obama presidency when they realize how leveraged they are with our debit.

We created a monster when we agreed to become an unquestioning market for China. They showed up with a steady stream of inexpensive goods and now they're beating us at our own game. It's frustrating to think of all that went into fighting the cold war with the Soviets only to give everything away to another communist government. I hope this country wakes up before it's too late.

RJ
11-21-2008, 09:53 PM
I do my best to not buy Chinese product but damn, it's hard. Do we make anything in this country today? I even buy Mexican over Chinese but that's also becoming scarce. I'm trying to opt for the western hemisphere.

The other day I picked up a package of garlic, three bulbs in a sleeve. Made in China. Why the fuck are we importing garlic from China? I am fairly certain we can meet domestic garlic needs with home grown product.

Ever look at the Juicy Juice juice boxes? The larger size (8oz?) are made in China. Fortunately the smaller size is fine for my daughter and they're made in Argentina so I opt for the South American product. But can someone tell me......why the hell do the fine folks down at Juicy Juice feel a need to produce their products in other countries? Do we not grow plenty of apples?

I no longer buy frozen fish because the brands in the local supermarkets are all from Asia. I always chuckle at the bags labeled "Great American Seafood Company". They're imported from China.

I happen to sell flooring and the big thing in flooring products here of late are Chinese wood and tile. When the samples come in I throw them out. I sold one order for a Chinese tile, the tile sizes varied by about 1/16" inch - not a big deal until you start laying them and find out you have a crooked floor.

Yeah, I'm a little pissed about this whole China thing. We can do much better than this.

bango
11-21-2008, 10:15 PM
With how much money we owe them, I have to doubt that they consider it stealing. I do not think that if we did not owe them anything that it would matter, but in this case I can see their viewpoint.

Psyko Tek
11-21-2008, 10:25 PM
damn near the only thing made in this country is part of defense contracts and thats not counting electronic components
Intel's only building Cpus in the us because of the priracy overseas

this has been going on for years

may have overslept that wake up call
service economy my ass

T-post Tom
11-21-2008, 10:27 PM
I do my best to not buy Chinese product but damn, it's hard. Do we make anything in this country today? I even buy Mexican over Chinese but that's also becoming scarce. I'm trying to opt for the western hemisphere.

The other day I picked up a package of garlic, three bulbs in a sleeve. Made in China. Why the **** are we importing garlic from China? I am fairly certain we can meet domestic garlic needs with home grown product.

Ever look at the Juicy Juice juice boxes? The larger size (8oz?) are made in China. Fortunately the smaller size is fine for my daughter and they're made in Argentina so I opt for the South American product. But can someone tell me......why the hell do the fine folks down at Juicy Juice feel a need to produce their products in other countries? Do we not grow plenty of apples?

I no longer buy frozen fish because the brands in the local supermarkets are all from Asia. I always chuckle at the bags labeled "Great American Seafood Company". They're imported from China.

I happen to sell flooring and the big thing in flooring products here of late are Chinese wood and tile. When the samples come in I throw them out. I sold one order for a Chinese tile, the tile sizes varied by about 1/16" inch - not a big deal until you start laying them and find out you have a crooked floor.

Yeah, I'm a little pissed about this whole China thing. We can do much better than this.

I couldn't agree with you more. A lot of "American" companies have sold out. Disney has all kinds of candy products that are made in China. How could anyone risk feeding their kids anything from China? Sadly, a lot of food and personal care products are now made in China. And if not the finished product, then many of the ingredients. For example, it's almost impossible to find vitamin C not made in China, regardless of the vitamin brand name. And now they're getting sneaky on the labels: instead of "Made in China", you'll find labels that say "PRC" or "Made in PRC". [People's Republic of China] Or even, "domestic and imported materials."

With the staggering trade imbalance, is it any wonder that unemployment is so high? That we owe so much to foreign governments? That our economy is in the crapper? Not too many folks envisioned what "a global economy" really meant when the government and big business pushed for all of these trade agreements and treaties. The balance of power, wealth and influence is shifting east. Our grandkids are going to grow up in a very different world if we don't change the course that we're on today.

Anyone remember that silly sci-fi movie, "They Live," with Roddy Piper? The aliens were taking over by enlisting the help of the human 'movers and shakers'. Not unlike what some of our politicians and corporate big wheels are doing right now.

Ok, I'm putting my foil hat back on and busting open my Rosetta Stone tapes on Wu, Min, Cantonese and Mandarin.

T-post Tom
11-21-2008, 10:35 PM
With how much money we owe them, I have to doubt that they consider it stealing. I do not think that if we did not owe them anything that it would matter, but in this case I can see their viewpoint.

What? You see their viewpoint? Did you read the article?

They receive interest on the money that they borrow. That's their compensation. Stealing government/military/trade secrets, violating patents, and illegially hacking into US computers tens of thousands of times a day has nothing to do with loans or the purchase of government bonds. Study up, bro. It's that kind of acquiescence that's killing us.

bango
11-21-2008, 11:47 PM
What? You see their viewpoint? Did you read the article?

They receive interest on the money that they borrow. That's their compensation. Stealing government/military/trade secrets, violating patents, and illegially hacking into US computers tens of thousands of times a day has nothing to do with loans or the purchase of government bonds. Study up, bro. It's that kind of acquiescence that's killing us.

I understand how borrowing works. Imagine if they decided to call those loans next week. They would be taking what is already theirs in a way. I disagree with it like many things that happen on this planet that there is not much that I can really do about. i can just see them trying to justify it, but I do not think that they really care either way. Like the US and every single other country on Earth, they only care about their own self interests.

I came here to chew bubble gum and kick ass...