It's Official; I'm on the "Gun Must Go" Train.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

This defense is absolutely fucking horrible minus Flowers, Carr, and occasionally Leggitt. Gun has no influence on his players, and it's as plain as day.

He's in charge of the linebackers, and the linebackers just...fucking...suck. Can't sack, can't tackle, can't anticipate, and straight-up can't do shit.

The line blows, and couldn't create pressure with my late-Grandmother's pressure cooker.

This is Gansz "defense" at it's absolute worst.

Gun; You're Fired.

[JuicesFlowing]

I agree.

[chiefsfan1963]

Bring back Greg Robinson! :)

[bowener]

Do you think we can demote Herm to DC and leave Gailey at OC and have no head coach? Part of the problem, as discussed in another thread, is that Pollard is attempting to create a new tacking style in the NFL. Its having a slow start, but he has faith it will take off soon!

[Coach]

Welcome to last year. :D

[SAUTO]

Do you think we can demote Herm to DC and leave Gailey at OC and have no head coach? Part of the problem, as discussed in another thread, is that Pollard is attempting to create a new tacking style in the NFL. Its having a slow start, but he has faith it will take off soon!

i think kawika mitchell started it and pollard is trying to perfect it

[teedubya]

Duh.

[ferrarispider95]

No, Gun is fine he just needs to get his own players in free agency...i mean through the draft...errr he didn't get to pick his assistants....um herm is forcing him to play cover 2 and not blitz.

Cover 2, that will be his escape goat this year.

[The Bad Guy]

Well now that we have your official approval...

["Bob" Dobbs]

Bring back Greg Robinson! :)Oh no you DIH-uhnt!

[TrickyNicky]

Guys, his players gave up on him! I haven't seen one guy trying to tackle with his balls out there.

[The Bad Guy]

Why in the fuck would anyone want to demote Herm to DC? Do you realize that he's NEVER called a defense in the NFL? He has his hands all over this defense too?

This guy was going to "fix" the defense just like Gun.

His ass should be ridden out of here the day Gun is gone.

[Molitoth]

sign me up.

[FloridaMan88]

Blowing up the franchise and starting over will obviously include Goonther. I've been calling Goonther a fraud whose career died when DT died since the Chiefs defense starting melting down during his tenure as head coach.

[dj56dt58]

is this defensive line retarted? another offsides..then when the ball really is snapped they dont do shit

[blueballs]

the caboose is SRO
if you can find it

[Deberg_1990]

If i were Herm i would fire Gun on the spot today as soon as this game ends.

[chiefzilla1501]

If i were Herm i would fire Gun on the spot today as soon as this game ends.

Agreed.

We have a young defensive backs coach who has called defenses before and I'd like to see if he can show some progress from this defense. Let's use the last half of the season to see if David Gibbs might have some answers for this defense. Keep in mind that this is a guy that Denver was heavily considering for their coordinator job.

[Smed1065]

See ya Gun.

[Sure-Oz]

Gun is a worthless sack of shit, always has been, gtfo!

[TrickyNicky]

Herm can't fire anyone. He is beholden to Carl.

[dj56dt58]

Herm fire Gun? wasn't Herm supposed to be the guy to fix this Defense? How about he fires himself

[Smed1065]

Guns been here longer with same results.

[chiefs1111]

what took you so long to get on the train??

[the Talking Can]

This defense is absolutely ****ing horrible minus Flowers, Carr, and occasionally Leggitt. Gun has no influence on his players, and it's as plain as day.

He's in charge of the linebackers, and the linebackers just...****ing...suck. Can't sack, can't tackle, can't anticipate, and straight-up can't do shit.

The line blows, and couldn't create pressure with my late-Grandmother's pressure cooker.

This is Gansz "defense" at it's absolute worst.

Gun; You're Fired.


did you just figure out that Milli Vanilli were lip synching too?

[milkman]

Herm fire Gun? wasn't Herm supposed to be the guy to fix this Defense? How about he fires himself

It's called the bus, and throwing under said bus.

[Brock]

At this rate, sometime next year you will have figured out that Herm isnt' a good coach.

[the Talking Can]

At this rate, sometime next year you will have figured out that Herm isnt' a good coach.

ROFL

[OnTheWarpath15]

Giving up 40 points in 3 quarters to a team that has struggled offensively for the past 4 weeks.

[Deberg_1990]

Giving up 40 points in 3 quarters to a team that has struggled offensively for the past 4 weeks.

47 points.

[DaWolf]

I'd like to hear Clark's take on this team "playing better as the season winds down" after getting 50 hung on us at Arrowhead...

[FringeNC]

How gun was not fire after the 2004 is beyond me. The fact that he still around shows a complete cronyism infestation

[kcxiv]

Carl, Herm and Gun, and in that order.

[kcxiv]

I wanna see them put up 60.

[chiefzilla1501]

Herm fire Gun? wasn't Herm supposed to be the guy to fix this Defense? How about he fires himself

No, Herm was not brought in here to fix the defense. The coordinator's job is to call plays and to coach up your defense. That's why guys like Monte Kiffin have kept great defenses in Tampa with both Dungy and Gruden. That's why Dungy's defense has never been nearly as good in Indy as in Tampa. That's why Billick's offense was awesome in Minnesota, but terrible in Baltimore.

There are some coaches like Bellichick who are more involved with playcalling. Most coaches are fairly hands-off. Herm deserves blame for the defense, but there is no doubt that Gun is by far the biggest culprit.

There's only one way to find out. Fire Gun immediately. See if David Gibbs can improve this defense. If he improves the defense, it's obviously Gun's fault. If he doesn't, then maybe there's a much bigger problem, whether that's herm or the players.

[milkman]

No, Herm was not brought in here to fix the defense. The coordinator's job is to call plays and to coach up your defense. That's why guys like Monte Kiffin have kept great defenses in Tampa with both Dungy and Gruden. That's why Dungy's defense has never been nearly as good in Indy as in Tampa. That's why Billick's offense was awesome in Minnesota, but terrible in Baltimore.

There are some coaches like Bellichick who are more involved with playcalling. Most coaches are fairly hands-off. Herm deserves blame for the defense, but there is no doubt that Gun is by far the biggest culprit.

There's only one way to find out. Fire Gun immediately. See if David Gibbs can improve this defense. If he improves the defense, it's obviously Gun's fault. If he doesn't, then maybe there's a much bigger problem, whether that's herm or the players.

Incredible.

[TrickyNicky]

Wow, talk about doing David Gibbs a favor. "Hey, our D just gave up 54 points. We fired the last guy. NOW FIX IT."

[chiefzilla1501]

Incredible.

A coach is only as good as his assistants. Herm's fault for letting it happen, assuming he had any power to do anything about it.

Look, I've said several times that Herm probably isn't the answer beyond 2009. I don't think he's good with X's and O's and that's the main reason for that. But I still contend that he's crippled by a defensive coordinator who has been retained year after year because he is buddies with the general manager. We deserve to at least see over the final games of this season if an in-house replacement can gain traction with this defense.

[Brock]

A coach is only as good as his assistants. Herm's fault for letting it happen, assuming he had any power to do anything about it.

Look, I've said several times that Herm probably isn't the answer beyond 2009. I don't think he's good with X's and O's and that's the main reason for that. But I still contend that he's crippled by a defensive coordinator who has been retained year after year because he is buddies with the general manager. We deserve to at least see over the final games of this season if an in-house replacement can gain traction with this defense.

He's never been the answer, not anywhere, ever.

[chiefzilla1501]

Wow, talk about doing David Gibbs a favor. "Hey, our D just gave up 54 points. We fired the last guy. NOW FIX IT."

It wouldn't be the first or last time a coordinator was fired midseason to fix a horrible offense or defense.

There's no good reason to suffer through Gun any longer. The players have given up on him. I think his assistants have to, to be honest. And when they play unmotivated, they don't learn and develop. In the meantime, you don't measure Gibbs on total output, but if he shows promise in the final games of the season.

There is no reason not to make this move. If only for the sole reason of preventing Gun from fucking up our players for one second more.

[tk13]

Just need a few more players. But only ones with firm handshakes.

[dirk digler]

You are a year too late. I was hoping he was going to be the scapegoat after last season

[journeyscarab]

Later dude.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Why in the fuck would anyone want to demote Herm to DC? Do you realize that he's NEVER called a defense in the NFL? He has his hands all over this defense too?

This guy was going to "fix" the defense just like Gun.

His ass should be ridden out of here the day Gun is gone.

Not me, and whoever suggested that should be taken to the Loony Bin for an IMMEDIATE lobotomy.

And it ain't about "my approval", it's about finally seeing that he has no control of his players. He has no pull, has no effectiveness; goodbye.

[milkman]

A coach is only as good as his assistants. Herm's fault for letting it happen, assuming he had any power to do anything about it.

Look, I've said several times that Herm probably isn't the answer beyond 2009. I don't think he's good with X's and O's and that's the main reason for that. But I still contend that he's crippled by a defensive coordinator who has been retained year after year because he is buddies with the general manager. We deserve to at least see over the final games of this season if an in-house replacement can gain traction with this defense.

I am just dumbfounded by this.

It is just beyond my comprehension.

Herman fucking Edwards has shown over and over, and over, in both his time here and in New York that he is a terrible game day coach, and he doesn't learn.

If you've already hired him after seeing the dumbass display his gameday dumbassery in NY, and you keep him around for one more season simply because you have (what very well could be the mistaken) belief that he has an eye for talent, any improvement in '09 is going to be considered progress by the dipshits in charge, and they are going to retain him for 2010 and beyond.

Assuming that he does have an for talent, then improvement is inevitable, and we'll be stuck with him, only to relive the mediocrity of the 90s.

No thank you.

No, that's too nice.

Fuck you.
I want no fucking part of that.

[The Bad Guy]

A coach is only as good as his assistants. Herm's fault for letting it happen, assuming he had any power to do anything about it.

Look, I've said several times that Herm probably isn't the answer beyond 2009. I don't think he's good with X's and O's and that's the main reason for that. But I still contend that he's crippled by a defensive coordinator who has been retained year after year because he is buddies with the general manager. We deserve to at least see over the final games of this season if an in-house replacement can gain traction with this defense.

You are such a flaming pile of douche.

HERMAN EDWARDS wanted Gun. He interviewed him in NY. He said in interviews that he wanted to HIRE him to be the DC, but Gun wanted to come back to KC.

How in the fuck is Herm the answer for one year, but then not the future? That is the most fucking stupid thing I have ever heard. You are wasting another year by keeping him around, yet you keep saying that he should be here in 2009. It makes absolutely, positively no fucking sense.

Herm is strapped with the assistants HE has chosen. You like to have scapegoats for everything that stupid mother fucker does. You are a lot like Herm. You deflect blame very well.

You are true mix of findthedr, voyager, zouk and KCJohnny wrapped up in a big ball of fucking suck.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

did you just figure out that Milli Vanilli were lip synching too?

WHAT????

Next you'll be telling me one of them is dead! God damn you; my day is ruined...

Oh Rob! Oh Fab! WHY???????

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I am just dumbfounded by this.

It is just beyond my comprehension.

Herman fucking Edwards has shown over and over, and over, in both his time here and in New York that he is a terrible game day coach, and he doesn't learn.

If you've already hired him after seeing the dumbass display his gameday dumbassery in NY, and you keep him around for one more season simply because you have (what very well could be the mistaken) belief that he has an eye for talent, any improvement in '09 is going to be considered progress by the dipshits in charge, and they are going to retain him for 2010 and beyond.


Assuming that he does have an for talent, then improvement is inevitable, and we'll be stuck with him, only to relive the mediocrity of the 90s.

No thank you.

No, that's too nice.

Fuck you.
I want no fucking part of that.
ROFLROFLROFL

[chiefzilla1501]

Milkman, I don't know what you're arguing with me about.

Have I ever denied that Herm Edwards is a bad gameday coach? Have I?

I've said many times I think he's a horrible gameday coach. And I also believe that he's a horrible X's and O's coach who needs smart coordinators to call games for him.

Therefore, when a horrible X's and O's coach is paired up with a defensive coordinator who sucks at calling plays, it cripples the defense.

I don't know how you think we're on a different page on this.

I am just dumbfounded by this.

It is just beyond my comprehension.

Herman ****ing Edwards has shown over and over, and over, in both his time here and in New York that he is a terrible game day coach, and he doesn't learn.

If you've already hired him after seeing the dumbass display his gameday dumbassery in NY, and you keep him around for one more season simply because you have (what very well could be the mistaken) belief that he has an eye for talent, any improvement in '09 is going to be considered progress by the dipshits in charge, and they are going to retain him for 2010 and beyond.

Assuming that he does have an for talent, then improvement is inevitable, and we'll be stuck with him, only to relive the mediocrity of the 90s.

No thank you.

No, that's too nice.

**** you.
I want no ****ing part of that.

[chiefzilla1501]

Let me explain this to you one more time, because it's not getting into your head:

-Carl Peterson interviewed ONE candidate to replace Dick Vermeil
-Carl Peterson interviewed ONE candidate to be the offensive coordinator
-Carl Peterson interviewed ONE candidate to be the defensive coordinator

Before that, Carl Peterson interviewed only ONE out-of-house candidate to replace Greg Robinson.

Before that, Carl Peterson interviewed only ONE candidate to replace Gunther Cunningham as head coach/

I don't remember that far back, but I'm pretty sure that Greg Robinson and Al Saunders were also brought in without an open interview process.


Carl Peterson has a Looooooonnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggg history of interviewing only one candidate and not looking out-of-house for coordinators and coaches. And yet you are still convinced that Gunther Cunningham was the guy Herm wanted?

The fact that Gun and Solari were considered in New York only goes to show that Herm was interested. It does not prove in the slightest that he would have hired him had they gone through an open interview process that 99% of other teams go through. Given that Rod Marinelli was Herm's #1 choice the year they hired Donnie Henderson (marinelli was #1, Gregg Williams was #2), you don't think Herm would have liked to talk to Marinelli? You don't think Herm would have loved to talk to Donnie Henderson? You don't think that he would have loved to talk to anybody in Dungy, Lovie, or Tampa's network, three networks that Herm loves?

But no. The Chiefs didn't open up the interview process.

The Chiefs have closed the interview process for years. They are the only team that does it consistently. And yet, even though they've done it for years before Herm was hired, you're STILL convinced that the decision to hire GUn and Solari wasn't largely a Carl Peterson decision?

Might I remind you for the 1 millionth time that the only reason Herm Edwards was hired in the first place is because Carl Peterson refused to interview anyone outside of his personal network?


You are such a flaming pile of douche.

HERMAN EDWARDS wanted Gun. He interviewed him in NY. He said in interviews that he wanted to HIRE him to be the DC, but Gun wanted to come back to KC.

How in the **** is Herm the answer for one year, but then not the future? That is the most ****ing stupid thing I have ever heard. You are wasting another year by keeping him around, yet you keep saying that he should be here in 2009. It makes absolutely, positively no ****ing sense.

Herm is strapped with the assistants HE has chosen. You like to have scapegoats for everything that stupid mother ****er does. You are a lot like Herm. You deflect blame very well.

You are true mix of findthedr, voyager, zouk and KCJohnny wrapped up in a big ball of ****ing suck.

[chiefzilla1501]

In short, it amazes me that Carl Peterson has fucked this team up for 20 years. Hires coaches the same way every time. And you're convinced he's not a big part of the disastrous Gun and Solari retention. Nevermind that they were hired exactly like almost every coach in KC has been hired for 20 years under Carl Peterson.

You suggest that I scapegoat. And yet you're the one that insists that everything wrong in KC is the product of Herm Edwards and no one else.

I believe that all parties are to blame. As far as I'm concerned, your insistence that Carl Peterson had nothing to do with the Gun and Solari hiring is deflecting blame away from Carl Peterson. And I hope I'm not alone here, but Peterson is a far bigger problem in KC than Herm Edwards is.

Let me explain this to you one more time, because it's not getting into your head:

-Carl Peterson interviewed ONE candidate to replace Dick Vermeil
-Carl Peterson interviewed ONE candidate to be the offensive coordinator
-Carl Peterson interviewed ONE candidate to be the defensive coordinator

Before that, Carl Peterson interviewed only ONE out-of-house candidate to replace Greg Robinson.

Before that, Carl Peterson interviewed only ONE candidate to replace Gunther Cunningham as head coach/

I don't remember that far back, but I'm pretty sure that Greg Robinson and Al Saunders were also brought in without an open interview process.


Carl Peterson has a Looooooonnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggg history of interviewing only one candidate and not looking out-of-house for coordinators and coaches. And yet you are still convinced that Gunther Cunningham was the guy Herm wanted?

The fact that Gun and Solari were considered in New York only goes to show that Herm was interested. It does not prove in the slightest that he would have hired him had they gone through an open interview process that 99% of other teams go through. Given that Rod Marinelli was Herm's #1 choice the year they hired Donnie Henderson (marinelli was #1, Gregg Williams was #2), you don't think Herm would have liked to talk to Marinelli? You don't think Herm would have loved to talk to Donnie Henderson? You don't think that he would have loved to talk to anybody in Dungy, Lovie, or Tampa's network, three networks that Herm loves?

But no. The Chiefs didn't open up the interview process.

The Chiefs have closed the interview process for years. They are the only team that does it consistently. And yet, even though they've done it for years before Herm was hired, you're STILL convinced that the decision to hire GUn and Solari wasn't largely a Carl Peterson decision?

Might I remind you for the 1 millionth time that the only reason Herm Edwards was hired in the first place is because Carl Peterson refused to interview anyone outside of his personal network?

[booger]

I won't argue about Carl being a thorn in the team's side............Of course I've had more than enough of him and want him gone.

But he did have other options besides Herm when DV retired. He interviewed Colts DC Ron Meeks. Meeks' defense was coming off of a 30th ranking or so and it was suspiscious why then an interview of him. Probable truth was he was a quick minority interview in the case of not getting Herm. Butch Davis was another option and if he didn't have luck with any of those, Rick Nuheisel was on the list as well. the ucla connection.

In NY, Herm seemed to can a coordinator every year, switching of D and O every other year. Reasons or better, excuses for poor performances.

[chiefzilla1501]

Booger, while those are great points, and I'm glad you called me out on that.

But in my defense, if I am not mistaken, the only reason Peterson interviewed anybody was to create the illusion to the Jets that Peterson was looking around. There was never a doubt in Peterson's mind that Herm was the #1, #2, #3 coach he wanted to hire.

I won't argue about Carl being a thorn in the team's side............Of course I've had more than enough of him and want him gone.

But he did have other options besides Herm when DV retired. He interviewed Colts DC Ron Meeks. Meeks' defense was coming off of a 30th ranking or so and it was suspiscious why then an interview of him. Probable truth was he was a quick minority interview in the case of not getting Herm. Butch Davis was another option and if he didn't have luck with any of those, Rick Nuheisel was on the list as well. the ucla connection.

In NY, Herm seemed to can a coordinator every year, switching of D and O every other year. Reasons or better, excuses for poor performances.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I won't argue about Carl being a thorn in the team's side............Of course I've had more than enough of him and want him gone.

But he did have other options besides Herm when DV retired. He interviewed Colts DC Ron Meeks. Meeks' defense was coming off of a 30th ranking or so and it was suspiscious why then an interview of him. Probable truth was he was a quick minority interview in the case of not getting Herm. Butch Davis was another option and if he didn't have luck with any of those, Rick Nuheisel was on the list as well. the ucla connection.

In NY, Herm seemed to can a coordinator every year, switching of D and O every other year. Reasons or better, excuses for poor performances.

What the fuck is "Mopery"?

[KCJohnny]

Everyone knows that I like Gunther Cunningham. I thought he deserved a 3rd season as HC years ago. Me, Joy Cunningham and Gun's sainted mother were the only people who felt that way.

As a leader in the military culture, I can tell you that Gun's toxic blue streak profanity-laden tirades against his players is probably part of the problem. Screaming and yelling and threatening :cuss: this or that is really an ineffective way to motivate people in any profession.

None of us knows what is going on inside the lockerroom, but it looks from the outside like this _efense is confused, disorganized and may be thinking too much. How much of that is the D-Coord and how much is the players? I have no idea.

Gun has literally had to hire players off the street on Monday and play them on Sunday. That's tough for any team but the 2008 Chiefs are the youngest team in the NFL. Still, Buffalo is not exactly an offensive powerhouse and scored 40+ points (didn't the Bills return 2 INTs for TDs? One?) on a Chiefs team that has shown some improvement over the past few weeks.

I would totally understand dismissing Coach Cunningham at this point. But the buck stops with the head coach. Herm needs to own this one 100% in public, and let the chips fall where they may behind closed doors.

[booger]

That still doesn't change the fact Herm was under contract and couldn't choose to just leave, mgmnt and ownership had to do that. But i get your point that he was Carl's top choice and i believe that was in the works before the 05 reg season was even finished.

Fast forward to our current situation. The only reason this season isn't even more embarrassing is because of Chan Gailey. He has the offense moving with the spread, etc because that is all he can do with this is a gimmick type of O because of the youth and problems we had/have at QB and oline.

Being that Herm hasn't ever been a DC, a Gibbs promotion doesn't make as much sense. Herm has proven he can't help out a coordinator as HC as far as x's and o's. Similar to DV's struggles with the Defense and GRob, Herm can't help either side. He isn't that type of HC.

And i really like Gibbs. He was one of the youngest DC's in college football with the U of Minnesota. coaching is in his blood and he has the fiery, wired hot side plus the good teacher side which i also like. I would love for him to stay on as DB coach or even DC as long as the man making that descision is a competent HC, namely not Herm Edwards.

[booger]

What the **** is "Mopery"?

?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Everyone knows that I like Gunther Cunningham. I thought he deserved a 3rd season as HC years ago. Me, Joy Cunningham and Gun's sainted mother were the only people who felt that way.

As a leader in the military culture, I can tell you that Gun's toxic blue streak profanity-laden tirades against his players is probably part of the problem. Screaming and yelling and threatening :cuss: this or that is really an ineffective way to motivate people in any profession.

None of us knows what is going on inside the lockerroom, but it looks from the outside like this _efense is confused, disorganized and may be thinking too much. How much of that is the D-Coord and how much is the players? I have no idea.

Gun has literally had to hire players off the street on Monday and play them on Sunday. That's tough for any team but the 2008 Chiefs are the youngest team in the NFL. Still, Buffalo is not exactly an offensive powerhouse and scored 40+ points (didn't the Bills return 2 INTs for TDs? One?) on a Chiefs team that has shown some improvement over the past few weeks.

I would totally understand dismissing Coach Cunningham at this point. But the buck stops with the head coach. Herm needs to own this one 100% in public, and let the chips fall where they may behind closed doors.

I hear ya'. But look at Herm; he's the exact opposite. It's like being a "friend" to your kids; doesn't work.

[KCJohnny]

I hear ya'. But look at Herm; he's the exact opposite. It's like being a "friend" to your kids; doesn't work.

Yeah, but that screaming profanity stuff gets old. People respect leaders who respect them. Vince Lombardi was harder than woodpecker lips but his men would do anything for him. He got mad at times but he didn't abuse his players or his authority.

[chiefzilla1501]

That's a fair argument.

The Chan Gailey hiring is one that I continue to use as a model for how the Chiefs should hire coaches. They brought in a whole group of candidates, mostly out-of-house. They ran a fair interview process and hired somebody who impressed them in interviews even though they knew nothing about him prior to the interview process. That's how Vermeil's replacement should have been picked. That's how the offensive coordinator and defensive coordinator should have been picked. But Peterson already knew as soon as Vermeil retired exactly who would be coaching his team, his offense, his defense and didn't even TRY to interview anyone else.

The open interview process is the only way to go. And yet Carl Peterson almost never does it. One of the many reasons I hate him.

That still doesn't change the fact Herm was under contract and couldn't choose to just leave, mgmnt and ownership had to do that. But i get your point that he was Carl's top choice and i believe that was in the works before the 05 reg season was even finished.

Fast forward to our current situation. The only reason this season isn't even more embarrassing is because of Chan Gailey. He has the offense moving with the spread, etc because that is all he can do with this is a gimmick type of O because of the youth and problems we had/have at QB and oline.

Being that Herm hasn't ever been a DC, a Gibbs promotion doesn't make as much sense. Herm has proven he can't help out a coordinator as HC as far as x's and o's. Similar to DV's struggles with the Defense and GRob, Herm can't help either side. He isn't that type of HC.

And i really like Gibbs. He was one of the youngest DC's in college football with the U of Minnesota. coaching is in his blood and he has the fiery, wired hot side plus the good teacher side which i also like. I would love for him to stay on as DB coach or even DC as long as the man making that descision is a competent HC, namely not Herm Edwards.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Yeah, but that screaming profanity stuff gets old. People respect leaders who respect them. Vince Lombardi was harder than woodpecker lips but his men would do anything for him.

Oh I agree with you 100%. Even in the winning days I thought it was a bit much.
You gotta' have a guy with balance; that's all I'm sayin.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

?

For someone who claims Booger as their ID, you sure don't know your Dudley Dawson!:evil:

[booger]

Everyone knows that I like Gunther Cunningham. I thought he deserved a 3rd season as HC years ago. Me, Joy Cunningham and Gun's sainted mother were the only people who felt that way.

As a leader in the military culture, I can tell you that Gun's toxic blue streak profanity-laden tirades against his players is probably part of the problem. Screaming and yelling and threatening :cuss: this or that is really an ineffective way to motivate people in any profession.

None of us knows what is going on inside the lockerroom, but it looks from the outside like this _efense is confused, disorganized and may be thinking too much. How much of that is the D-Coord and how much is the players? I have no idea.

Gun has literally had to hire players off the street on Monday and play them on Sunday. That's tough for any team but the 2008 Chiefs are the youngest team in the NFL. Still, Buffalo is not exactly an offensive powerhouse and scored 40+ points (didn't the Bills return 2 INTs for TDs? One?) on a Chiefs team that has shown some improvement over the past few weeks.

I would totally understand dismissing Coach Cunningham at this point. But the buck stops with the head coach. Herm needs to own this one 100% in public, and let the chips fall where they may behind closed doors.


Good analysis on the way he tries to get his message accross. I agree.

The opposite is working very well with Gailey.

Take it from the offseason and his (Chan) hiring. He offered no guarantees, no promises, no "name" to his offense, etc. Just that he would work with what he had to work with. Many around this board including me don't like Dick Curl as the QB coach. Chan agreed bringing him back in that role was good becuase that was good for Brodie and Brodie was the one the org was counting on. He said it wouldn't make sense for a change now.

He got Charles involved early in the season from the get go as a third down back. He realized the problem with the right side of the line as much as the line as a whole. It's not in his nature to have a pass first offense but he does it because it is all we have that works.

He also has a very generic simplified version of a playbook, i'm sure, with this young and experienced group. One of the other bright spots was guys like asst. ol coach Joe D'Allesandres, WR Eric Price, RB Curtis Modkins was the fact that they would each be coming to the team, working under Gailey, and coaching college players coming in who are the same age group who they just coached in college. Price coming from UTEP and the others from GTECH.

I just put a ton of fault into Herm, Gun, and Carl for not doing the same or having the same type of approach on defense. Out of any year let alone a rebuilding year they let Gun coach LB's too.

[booger]

For someone who claims Booger as their ID, you sure don't know your Dudley Dawson!:evil:

i have to brush up on my nerd news:)

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

i have to brush up on my nerd news:)

Just throw in a "What the fuck is a frush"? now and then; you'll be fine!
:toast:

[KCJohnny]

Good analysis on the way he tries to get his message accross. I agree.

The opposite is working very well with Gailey.

Take it from the offseason and his (Chan) hiring. He offered no guarantees, no promises, no "name" to his offense, etc. Just that he would work with what he had to work with. Many around this board including me don't like Dick Curl as the QB coach. Chan agreed bringing him back in that role was good becuase that was good for Brodie and Brodie was the one the org was counting on. He said it wouldn't make sense for a change now.

He got Charles involved early in the season from the get go as a third down back. He realized the problem with the right side of the line as much as the line as a whole. It's not in his nature to have a pass first offense but he does it because it is all we have that works.

He also has a very generic simplified version of a playbook, i'm sure, with this young and experienced group. One of the other bright spots was guys like asst. ol coach Joe D'Allesandres, WR Eric Price, RB Curtis Modkins was the fact that they would each be coming to the team, working under Gailey, and coaching college players coming in who are the same age group who they just coached in college. Price coming from UTEP and the others from GTECH.

I just put a ton of fault into Herm, Gun, and Carl for not doing the same or having the same type of approach on defense. Out of any year let alone a rebuilding year they let Gun coach LB's too.

I personally favor tough, disciplined coaches (Gun is both) with passion (yup) and self control (hmmmm....). I may be off, but when Gun was fired as HC back in 2000 the rumor was "he lost his players" (whatever that means in the NFL - I know what it means in the Army).

I agree, Gailey is a spiritual guy, a values guy, and very flexible with the talent assigned. I like him a lot. Would not mind him taking the HC position.

As for this year, I agree: Gun needs to let the LB Coaching position go to someone who can stand on the sideline and coach his unit. Can't do that from the press box.

[CoMoChief]

I'll admit.

I wsa the biggest Gunther homer as anyone.

Hard not to like the guy and the passion he has for the game.

But this game was the last straw for me.........Gunther must go after this season as well as the "Cover Who" defense.

[KCJohnny]

I'll admit.

I wsa the biggest Gunther homer as anyone.

Hard not to like the guy and the passion he has for the game.

But this game was the last straw for me.........Gunther must go after this season as well as the "Cover Who" defense.
:LOL:

[booger]

That's a fair argument.

The Chan Gailey hiring is one that I continue to use as a model for how the Chiefs should hire coaches. They brought in a whole group of candidates, mostly out-of-house. They ran a fair interview process and hired somebody who impressed them in interviews even though they knew nothing about him prior to the interview process. That's how Vermeil's replacement should have been picked. That's how the offensive coordinator and defensive coordinator should have been picked. But Peterson already knew as soon as Vermeil retired exactly who would be coaching his team, his offense, his defense and didn't even TRY to interview anyone else.

The open interview process is the only way to go. And yet Carl Peterson almost never does it. One of the many reasons I hate him.

I totally agree on open interviews. Carl sucks. When he promoted Gun, his other interviews were: Internal; Al Saunders WR coach, Jimmy Raye OC, Mike Stock Special Teams. External- Wanted to interview Belichek. He declined the interview. Willy Shaw, former raiders db coach who Gun hired in '00 as his asst hc and db coach after ron zook left after his first year under Gun. Carl also considered Tampa Bay assistant hc and db coach Herm Edwards in '99 before deciding on Gun, but he hadn't been a DC yet and thought that might be a bit risky.

Didn't really think outside the circle of carl there either.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I personally favor tough, disciplined coaches (Gun is both) with passion (yup) and self control (hmmmm....). I may be off, but when Gun was fired as HC back in 2000 the rumor was "he lost his players" (whatever that means in the NFL - I know what it means in the Army).

I agree, Gailey is a spiritual guy, a values guy, and very flexible with the talent assigned. I like him a lot. Would not mind him taking the HC position.

As for this year, I agree: Gun needs to let the LB Coaching position go to someone who can stand on the sideline and coach his unit. Can't do that from the press box.

From the interviews I've seen, I don't think he'd want it.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I'll admit.

I wsa the biggest Gunther homer as anyone.

Hard not to like the guy and the passion he has for the game.

But this game was the last straw for me.........Gunther must go after this season as well as the "Cover Who" defense.

ROFL Nice!

[boogblaster]

Gun is being out coached ... But he has had to start players with little time too settle in as Chiefs ..

[chiefzilla1501]

I totally agree on open interviews. Carl sucks. When he promoted Gun, his other interviews were: Internal; Al Saunders WR coach, Jimmy Raye OC, Mike Stock Special Teams. External- Wanted to interview Belichek. He declined the interview. Willy Shaw, former raiders db coach who Gun hired in '00 as his asst hc and db coach after ron zook left after his first year under Gun. Carl also considered Tampa Bay assistant hc and db coach Herm Edwards in '99 before deciding on Gun, but he hadn't been a DC yet and thought that might be a bit risky.

Didn't really think outside the circle of carl there either.

Glad somebody finally sees this, as I've brought this up many times before and nobody can seem to answer this point. Glad you remembered all those coaching situations too. I'll throw in another situation. When Greg Robinson was fired, the Chiefs interviewed Gunther Cunningham, Peter Guinta and Joe Vitt. That's it. Two of those guys were Robinson's assistants. Also interesting that Terry Bradway, a Peterson protege, did the same thing in New York when he hired Herm, Cottrell, and Hackett, all of whom were in his own personal network, as they all worked in KC.

I've never seen a more disgusting display of cigar club buddy politics as we've seen the last 20 years in the Carl Peterson era.

[KCJohnny]

I've never seen a more disgusting display of cigar club buddy politics as we've seen the last 20 years in the Carl Peterson era.

Isn't this Carl's last year?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Gun is being out coached ... But he has had to start players with little time too settle in as Chiefs ..

But that's the problem man; there IS NO such thing as Chiefs Defense anymore! It died with with DT, and it's not coming back under Gunther.

I take NO joy in this whatsoever. In fact, it hurts a lot. But that era is gone, and it should be recognized as a weakness or stupidity or apathy on so many peoples' parts at the top and coaching level of this franchise, that they let it slide down to today's play on the field.

We gotta' scorch the earth and start again; that's where we're at.

[chiefzilla1501]

Isn't this Carl's last year?

Unfortunately, his contract extends through 2009. We're probably stuck with him in 2009. We can only hope he doesn't fuck this team up before then.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Unfortunately, his contract extends through 2009. We're probably stuck with him in 2009. We can only hope he doesn't fuck this team up before then.

Prior to today, I was hawking the same line of thinking as you on this matter. If we have an owner who cares; the line has been crossed, and it's crucible time.
I believe now that Clark will have to save face, or lose the whole show; nobody is buying the half-hearted bullshit from this day forward anymore.

[KCJohnny]

Unfortunately, his contract extends through 2009. We're probably stuck with him in 2009. We can only hope he doesn't **** this team up before then.

Worse possible scenario: The Chiefs D turns around in '09 and we win 9 games. Clark Hunt extends Carl to "finish the rebuild".

[CoMoChief]

Worse possible scenario: The Chiefs D turns around in '09 and we win 9 games. Clark Hunt extends Carl to "finish the rebuild".

I dunno, next season would consist on blackouts every week considering Clark would have to do a lot of explaining to do why Carl was kept for another season, especially if we don't win another game.

You can already double the amount of people who won't renew their season tickets, as it was hard this season to even give them away half price.

The Chiefs are selling single game tickets for $10 from what I've heard. In that case, why would anyone pay thousands of dollars to watch this shit? even with gas prices coming down, I still wouldn't pay $10 for a ticket just to save hassel of driving across state.

The economy is horrible, the Chiefs are horrible, people aren't wanting to buy tickets. If Clark was smart or if he gave a shit, he'd do the right thing and fire Carl, that alone would be enough for some people to keep their season tickets......I would think.

[Agent V]

Unfortunately, his contract extends through 2009. We're probably stuck with him in 2009. We can only hope he doesn't **** this team up before then.

Yeah, his contract ends, and then what? He just leaves? Something tells me that's not going to happen.

[FringeNC]

I dunno, next season would consist on blackouts every week considering Clark would have to do a lot of explaining to do why Carl was kept for another season, especially if we don't win another game.

You can already double the amount of people who won't renew their season tickets, as it was hard this season to even give them away half price.

The Chiefs are selling single game tickets for $10 from what I've heard. In that case, why would anyone pay thousands of dollars to watch this shit? even with gas prices coming down, I still wouldn't pay $10 for a ticket just to save hassel of driving across state.

The economy is horrible, the Chiefs are horrible, people aren't wanting to buy tickets. If Clark was smart or if he gave a shit, he'd do the right thing and fire Carl, that alone would be enough for some people to keep their season tickets......I would think.

Yeah, I can't see how there won't be a massive dropout in season ticket sales, given the state of the team and the fact that tickets are so easily unattainable on ebay and stubhub. [And I predict the Chiefs were unload a massive amount of tickets to brokers at huge discounts just so it appears ticket sales are stronger than they are.]

The fan base want Carl, Herm, and Gun gone but Clark doesn't yet care. He may soon.

[Extra Point]

Yeah, I can't see how there won't be a massive dropout in season ticket sales, given the state of the team and the fact that tickets are so easily unattainable on ebay and stubhub. [And I predict the Chiefs were unload a massive amount of tickets to brokers at huge discounts just so it appears ticket sales are stronger than they are.]

The fan base want Carl, Herm, and Gun gone but Clark doesn't yet care. He may soon.

These ticket subsidies make up little for the $32 million gap in the cap. CoMoChief is dead right. Quite a few locals won't go across town to see any game at any price when the team plays this bad.

This is like trying to sell rotten tomatoes to Ollie Gates at a premium, claiming they would bring more zing to the sauce.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

These ticket subsidies make up little for the $32 million gap in the cap. CoMoChief is dead right. Quite a few locals won't go across town to see any game at any price when the team plays this bad.

This is like trying to sell rotten tomatoes to Ollie Gates at a premium, claiming they would bring more zing to the sauce.

Blasphemy!

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn182/lightbringerrr/GATESSAUCE.jpg

[PhillyChiefFan]

Agreed.