Chiefs Offense: Quietly Sneaking Up

[KCJohnny]

On Tyler Thigpen (http://www.kcchiefs.com/gameday/20081130):

Chiefs QB Tyler Thigpen is the first KC signal caller to throw at least one TD pass in five straight games since QB Trent Green in 2004. Thigpen has thrown two or more TDs in each of his last three contests. Over his last five starts, Thigpen has thrown 11 TDs and just three INTs. Only Colts QB Peyton Manning has thrown as many TDs over that same span.

On the mounting productivity (http://www.kcchiefs.com/gameday/20081130):

Despite last week’s loss, Kansas City racked up a season-high 462 yards of total offense, the club’s highest total since posting 499 yards vs. Seattle (10/29/06).

According to Mitch Holthus, the Chiefs dressed eighteen (!) rookies for the game vs the Bills. This is a very young, very promising team. The Bills game was one of those derailments you can expect with a squad this young. The previous 4 games the Chiefs boasted a 10:2 takeaway ratio.

Over the past 4 games, the Chiefs offense is averaging 378 yards per game and 24.2 points per game. None of us would dare hope for numbers like that back in September when the team was averaging 12.5 PPG and about 270 YPG.

Chan Gailey has something special going on here. This Chiefs' Offense is quietly improving week by week. Yes, with young teams there will be horrendous days like Sunday vs Buffalo. The Chiefs turned the ball over 5 times without forcing a turnover - totally opposite their performance the rest of the season (Chiefs were +9 in takeaways before the Buffalo game) and are tied for 5th in the NFL with 21 takeaways.

Seeing Thigpen began the season as the #3 QB and we have lost nearly every RB to injury or stupidity over the course of the 2008 season, with no real #2 WR at season's start and a suspect offensive line, I'd say 378 YPG and 24.2 PPG is not a bad place to be right now.

The wins will come.

KCJohnny
:arrow:

[Agent V]

The wins WOULD come, but we have the worst defense in the league.

[KCJohnny]

The wins WOULD come, but we have the worst defense in the league.

True. The loss of Allen was massive. Injuries have decimated our secondary and LB corps. Its very, very, bad. I anticipate some pricey FAs coming on board over the off season to help. The good news is this O is young and showing improvement by leaps and bounds - and we started this year in the pits.

[King_Chief_Fan]

We need a defensive coordinator that Herm will leave alone to do his job.
Hard to say that should be Gunther given what we have seen, but you can't help but think the Herm influence and his insistence of cover who defense is part of the problem.

[KCJohnny]

We need a defensive coordinator that Herm will leave alone to do his job.
Hard to say that should be Gunther given what we have seen, but you can't help but think the Herm influence and his insistence of cover who defense is part of the problem.

Hopefully he's learning that experienced guys like Chan know what they are doing and he will let Gun run the D the way that the talent on hand supports.

[Brock]

We need a defensive coordinator.

FYP

[PhillyChiefFan]

1. Orakpo,Tex (or Michael Johnson GT)
2. Spikes, UF

I don't think that Orakpo will be the next JA, but I think he will be a force to be reckoned with. Spikes is a ball hawk, and is fast enough to be a good coverage LB.

Would be nice, because they are two very good players in needed positions. Add a safety in there, and I would love to have Myron Rolle from FSU.

Our problem is pass rush and lack of talent at MLB. If we have THIS offense and a passing attack, and a new aggressive and young DC we could be a very different and good defense. It would be a sight for sore eyes.

[PhillyChiefFan]

We need a defensive coordinator that Herm will leave alone to do his job.
Hard to say that should be Gunther given what we have seen, but you can't help but think the Herm influence and his insistence of cover who defense is part of the problem.

beat me to it. A new DC is a must if we are going to compete.

Cover/Tampa 2 is outdated IMHO.

[BigChiefFan]

Wow, look at all of those wins, this stellar offense is producing. It only took Herm two and a half years to figure his offense game plans, were/are utter trash.

[CoMoChief]

I was wrong about Thigpen after watching him play against ATL. I'll admit it, I think most of us were.

But he's playing at a level that I am happy with, he's only going to get better. We are finally grooming a QB after all of these years. He's seemed to develope somewhat of a chemistry with top 3 playmakers TonyG, Bowe and Bradley, and occasionally Franklin/Charles.

Right now offense isn't the problem. What I didn't like about the BUF game is that LJ was getting some good runs and we completely went away from the running game. The game was still close in the first half, we still could have ran the ball more.

It's obvious that it really isn't the offense thats the problem. Though we desperately need to look for a rt side of an Oline. I would LOOOOOOVE to see us trade up a lil bit and snag Duke Robinson.......he was a fuckin beast in the TTU game. GREAT run blocker, can pass block as well. He could be VERY good right off the bat, kinda like Shields was.

This team sorely needs a pass rushing DE, every game is getting more and more like we got dicked out of the Jared Allen trade. Our pass rush wasn't great with him, despite how well he played individually, we couldnt get sacks from anywhere else. Times running out on Hali. The more I see the guy play the more I get disappointed. He's not Eric Hicks thank god, hes not that bad by any means, but he should be a lot better considering where he was drafted, or better yet that just proves once again the Chiefs are terrible drafters. The guy has been lacking in the pass rush and he's always been a liab in the running game. Him and Dorsey got blown up so many times this season in the running game. This defense needs help......bad. Brian Orakpo here we come!!!!!

Guy is a fuckin monster.

[KCJohnny]

. Our pass rush wasn't great with him, despite how well he played individually, we couldnt get sacks from anywhere else. Times running out on Hali. The more I see the guy play the more I get disappointed. He's not Eric Hicks thank god, hes not that bad by any means, but he should be a lot better considering where he was drafted, or better yet that just proves once again the Chiefs are terrible drafters.

At least Eric Hicks got 14 sacks one year. Its popular to beat up on him but the Chiefs had 54 sacks in 2000 - think about it - 54 - we have 6 all season now.

Eric Hicks would have improved this abysmal pass rush.

[CoMoChief]

1. Orakpo,Tex (or Michael Johnson GT)
2. Spikes, UF

I don't think that Orakpo will be the next JA, but I think he will be a force to be reckoned with. Spikes is a ball hawk, and is fast enough to be a good coverage LB.

Would be nice, because they are two very good players in needed positions. Add a safety in there, and I would love to have Myron Rolle from FSU.

Our problem is pass rush and lack of talent at MLB. If we have THIS offense and a passing attack, and a new aggressive and young DC we could be a very different and good defense. It would be a sight for sore eyes.

As good as a story Rolle is, he actually kinda sucks.

[BigChiefFan]

The offense is a problem. Have you seen our red zone offense do jack squat? Yea, me either.

[CoMoChief]

At least Eric Hicks got 14 sacks one year. Its popular to beat up on him but the Chiefs had 54 sacks in 2000 - think about it - 54 - we have 6 all season now.

Eric Hicks would have improved this abysmal pass rush.

One year, BFD........after that Eric Hicks disappeared for about 6 years.

[PhillyChiefFan]

This defense needs help......bad. Brian Orakpo here we come!!!!!

Guy is a ****in monster.


Yea he is. He would allow Dorsey and Tank AND perhaps Hali play better. Teams would have to respect our pass rush and not double team Dorsey allowing penetration.

Orakpo is downright scary, and he WILL force QB's to make bad decisions.

We are second ONLY to Green Bay in interceptions this season and we have NO pass rush. Imagine if we had Orakpo rushing the end how many int's we would have.

[CoMoChief]

The offense is a problem. Have you seen our red zone offense do jack squat? Yea, me either.

Which is why we need a rt side of an Oline. as far as skilled position players I think we're set, maybe could use another WR because after the first 3, our WR's are dogshit.

[EyePod]

1. Orakpo,Tex (or Michael Johnson GT)
2. Spikes, UF

I don't think that Orakpo will be the next JA, but I think he will be a force to be reckoned with. Spikes is a ball hawk, and is fast enough to be a good coverage LB.

Would be nice, because they are two very good players in needed positions. Add a safety in there, and I would love to have Myron Rolle from FSU.

Our problem is pass rush and lack of talent at MLB. If we have THIS offense and a passing attack, and a new aggressive and young DC we could be a very different and good defense. It would be a sight for sore eyes.

Michael Johnson looks really good....

[KCJohnny]

Yea he is. He would allow Dorsey and Tank AND perhaps Hali play better. Teams would have to respect our pass rush and not double team Dorsey allowing penetration.

Orakpo is downright scary, and he WILL force QB's to make bad decisions.

We are second ONLY to Green Bay in interceptions this season and we have NO pass rush. Imagine if we had Orakpo rushing the end how many int's we would have.

:clap:

[Fairplay]

The Chiefs have the best offense for a team that's lost 19 out of their last 20 games. :rolleyes:

[KCJohnny]

The Chiefs have the best offense for a team that's lost 19 out of their last 20 games. :rolleyes:

I understand your angst. The Chiefs also have 18 rookies on their 53 man roster. That means every 3rd player on the Chiefs in his first year of NFL experience and we are still climbing the ladder on offense. I am liking what I see.

[BigChiefFan]

Which is why we need a rt side of an Oline. as far as skilled position players I think we're set, maybe could use another WR because after the first 3, our WR's are dogshit.
We need another HB, too. LJ is on his last legs and Charles is not an every down back. He's a change of pace back. We need a RG, as well. LG, to prepare for Waters departure. We need two more QBs. A center, etc...

We have a few more holes to fill, than just WR and RT on offense.

[CoMoChief]

The Chiefs have the best offense for a team that's lost 19 out of their last 20 games. :rolleyes:

You absolutely CAN NOT win ball games if you can't stop the run.

Theres no other way around it.

This defense is scary bad, worse than what it was in 2002 and/or 2003.

[CoMoChief]

We need another HB, too. LJ is on his last legs and Charles is not an every down back. He's a change of pace back. We need a RG, as well. LG, to prepare for Waters departure. We need two more QBs. A center, etc...

We have a few more holes to fill, than just WR and RT on offense.

I cant really see how you can claim LJ's on his last legs. he's never been really fast to begin with.....If you're talking about him getting caught from behind when he almost had that 65yd TD run, he was being chased down by Leodis McKelvin, whos one of the faster players in the NFL.

[BigChiefFan]

I understand your angst. The Chiefs also have 18 rookies on their 53 man roster. That means every 3rd player on the Chiefs in his first year of NFL experience and we are still climbing the ladder on offense. I am liking what I see.Again, the red zone offense sucks! Moving the ball is fine, but scoring points is the goal and the Chiefs are still struggling in a big way.

[patteeu]

On Tyler Thigpen (http://www.kcchiefs.com/gameday/20081130):



On the mounting productivity (http://www.kcchiefs.com/gameday/20081130):



According to Mitch Holthus, the Chiefs dressed eighteen (!) rookies for the game vs the Bills. This is a very young, very promising team. The Bills game was one of those derailments you can expect with a squad this young. The previous 4 games the Chiefs boasted a 10:2 takeaway ratio.

Over the past 4 games, the Chiefs offense is averaging 378 yards per game and 24.2 points per game. None of us would dare hope for numbers like that back in September when the team was averaging 12.5 PPG and about 270 YPG.

Chan Gailey has something special going on here. This Chiefs' Offense is quietly improving week by week. Yes, with young teams there will be horrendous days like Sunday vs Buffalo. The Chiefs turned the ball over 5 times without forcing a turnover - totally opposite their performance the rest of the season (Chiefs were +9 in takeaways before the Buffalo game) and are tied for 5th in the NFL with 21 takeaways.

Seeing Thigpen began the season as the #3 QB and we have lost nearly every RB to injury or stupidity over the course of the 2008 season, with no real #2 WR and a suspect offensive line, I'd say 378 YPG and 24.2 PPG is not a bad place to be right now.

The wins will come.

KCJohnny
:arrow:

The only problem I have with your post is the reference to "no real #2 WR". I think Bradley has earned his keep since he's been here. What the Chiefs lack in the WR department this year is a WR who can stretch the field (whether he's technically the 2nd or 3rd WR isn't all that important). They also have a great WR in Bowe who has made some tough catches but who is dropping a lot of difference-making balls. Hopefully, he'll grow out of that just like Tony G did.

Otherwise, I like the point you're making. Chan Gailey has impressed me with the product he's managed to put on the field, particularly after you take into consideration the various challenges he's faced this season.

[KCJohnny]

Over the past 4 games, the Chiefs offense is averaging 378 yards per game and 24.2 points per game. None of us would dare hope for numbers like that back in September when the team was averaging 12.5 PPG and about 270 YPG.


C'mon, guys. Let's accentuate the positive. Something really good is going here with a bunch of young, inexperienced players and the greatest TE of all time.

[Hootie]

We need a defensive coordinator that Herm will leave alone to do his job.
Hard to say that should be Gunther given what we have seen, but you can't help but think the Herm influence and his insistence of cover who defense is part of the problem.

so we need an offensive coordinator that Herm will leave alone and a defensive coordinator he will leave you alone...so why exactly do we need Herm?

[KCJohnny]

The only problem I have with your post is the reference to "no real #2 WR". I think Bradley has earned his keep since he's been here. What the Chiefs lack in the WR department this year is a WR who can stretch the field (whether he's technically the 2nd or 3rd WR isn't all that important). They also have a great WR in Bowe who has made some tough catches but who is dropping a lot of difference-making balls. Hopefully, he'll grow out of that just like Tony G did.

Otherwise, I like the point you're making. Chan Gailey has impressed me with the product he's managed to put on the field, particularly after you take into consideration the various challenges he's faced this season.

Pat, what my post intended to suggest is that we entered the 2008 campaign with no real #2 Wr and that Mark Bradley (I love this guy) has emerged in a HUGE way. The post seeks to contrast the dire straits of the September Chiefs offense with the suddenly hot Chiefs offense of OCT-NOV.

We definitely agree about Bradley.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Michael Johnson looks really good....

His measurables look good. He's never even produced on the college level. This guy is a bust waiting to happen. He's not Vernon Gholston or Orakpo, who are both workout freaks who put up big sack #s in college, he's a Gym god and a pile of poo on the field.

[CupidStunt]

I'm pretty happy with Gailey. Probably the only coach alongside whoever "coaches" Gonzo that I'd keep next year.

[BigChiefFan]

I cant really see how you can claim LJ's on his last legs. he's never been really fast to begin with.....If you're talking about him getting caught from behind when he almost had that 65yd TD run, he was being chased down by Leodis McKelvin, whos one of the faster players in the NFL.No, I'm referring to all his carries. No back has ever gotten 1000 yards after a 400 plus season. LJ is nearing the end as the workhorse. Not preparing for this, is the type of things the Chiefs do and then they wonder why a facet of the game isn't working. Counting on LJ at this point, isn't seeing the big picture. We must prepare for his replacement, sooner, rather than later.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

The fact of the matter is that this team still needs the following positions:

QB (1)
HB (1)
WR (1)
OG (1)
OT (1)
C (1)
DT (1)
DE (2)
OLB (1)
MLB (2)
CB (1)
S (1)

And the #1 rule in the draft is that if a franchise QB is there when you pick and you don't already have one, you take him. Thigpen has not proven, and will not prove, in 9 games, if he is or isn't a franchise QB, so assuming that he will be one is setting the team up for failure.

The problems with this defense are 50% scheme/coaching, 30% youth, 20% talent.

[KCJohnny]

No, I'm referring to all his carries. No back has ever gotten 1000 yards after a 400 plus season. LJ is nearing the end as the workhorse. Not preparing for this, is the type of things the Chiefs do and then they wonder why a facet of the game isn't working. Counting on LJ at this point, isn't seeing the big picture. We must prepare for his replacement, sooner, rather than later.

RB is the least of our problems. When you can spread the field and challenge the secondary, the entire field opens up for you. When you have a QB that can run for 1st downs, you're in even better shape. LJ is the best RB on this team but the team could find explosive assets with Charles, Smith or Savage in this type of scheme.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

RB is the least of our problems. When you can spread the field and challenge the secondary, the entire field opens up for you. When you have a QB that can run for 1st downs, you're in even better shape. LJ is the best RB on this team but the team could find explosive assets with Charles, Smith or Savage in this type of scheme.

Dantrell Savage is not an NFL caliber player. He's too small, too slow, and goes down too easily. How is this even a debate? What has he shown against NFL defenses, and not training camp/Arena League scrubs, that would make you think for 1/1000 of a second that he was anything other than camp fodder?

The NFL isn't a Disney movie. He sucks. Get over it, and bring someone else in who actually belongs in the league.

[BigChiefFan]

RB is the least of our problems. When you can spread the field and challenge the secondary, the entire field opens up for you. When you have a QB that can run for 1st downs, you're in even better shape. LJ is the best RB on this team but the team could find explosive assets with Charles, Smith or Savage in this type of scheme.Gee, Johnny, LJ will last another 10 years and Charles will magically turn into an everydown HB. Savage isn't an everydown back and certainly not even worth considering as a starter. Smith is done for the season and maybe his career. We'll also just disregard the red zone offense so you can hold onto your the offense is great schtick. Another than that, yep HB is the least of our worries.:D

[Dartgod]

Dantrell Savage is not an NFL caliber player. He's too small, too slow, and goes down too easily. How is this even a debate? What has he shown against NFL defenses, and not training camp/Arena League scrubs, that would make you think for 1/1000 of a second that he was anything other than camp fodder?

The NFL isn't a Disney movie. He sucks. Get over it, and bring someone else in who actually belongs in the league.
BUT HIS NAME IS SAVAGE!!!! GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!111111111ONEONEELEVEN

[Brock]

Running backs are easy to find. Not a pressing need at all.

[KCJohnny]

The fact of the matter is that this team still needs the following positions:

QB (1)
HB (1)
WR (1)
OG (1)
OT (1)
C (1)
DT (1)
DE (2)
OLB (1)
MLB (2)
CB (1)
S (1)

And the #1 rule in the draft is that if a franchise QB is there when you pick and you don't already have one, you take him. Thigpen has not proven, and will not prove, in 9 games, if he is or isn't a franchise QB, so assuming that he will be one is setting the team up for failure.

The problems with this defense are 50% scheme/coaching, 30% youth, 20% talent.

Hamas blames Thigpen, one of the few bright spots in the 2008 campaign for the woes of the Chiefs. Doubling the Chiefs' offensive points output is not good enough for Hamas. Throwing more TD passes in consecutive games than any QB in the NFL save Peyton Manning is substandard. Alleging that raising the Chiefs output to 378 YPG is "not proven" and appealing to unwritten draft rules seems like a serious lapse in judgment here.

We don't know the full story on Tyler Thigpen yet but we sure as heck know he can get 24 PPG and make things happen.

[BigChiefFan]

Running backs are easy to find. Not a pressing need at all.If LJ goes down, who can carry the rock 25 plus times a game for us? Nobody on our roster.

[Brock]

If LJ goes down, who can carry the rock 25 plus times a game for us? Nobody on our roster.

Why is it important to have one guy who can do that?

[KCJohnny]

If LJ goes down, who can carry the rock 25 plus times a game for us? Nobody on our roster.

How do you know this? And what is wrong with RBbC if we have a high octane passing game that spreads the field and a QB that is a proven runner?

[Dartgod]

Hamas blames Thigpen, one of the few bright spots in the 2008 campaign for the woes of the Chiefs. Doubling the Chiefs' offensive points output is not good enough for Hamas. Throwing more TD passes in consecutive games than any QB in the NFL save Peyton Manning is substandard. Alleging that raising the Chiefs output to 378 YPG is "not proven" and appealing to unwritten draft rules seems like a serious lapse in judgment here.

We don't know the full story on Tyler Thigpen yet but we sure as heck know he can get 24 PPG and make things happen.
Which is exactly why we should not ignore the position in the next draft if a franchise type QB is available to us.

I like what Thigpen is doing as much as you do, but if he turns out to be a flash in the pan, we have set this franchise back another year if we do not address the position.

I failed to see where Hamas is blaming Thigpen for anything. If I missed it, maybe you could point it out to me?

[BigChiefFan]

Why is it important to have one guy who can do that?
Look at our red zone production and I'll let you figure it out.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Hamas blames Thigpen, one of the few bright spots in the 2008 campaign for the woes of the Chiefs. Doubling the Chiefs' offensive points output is not good enough for Hamas. Throwing more TD passes in consecutive games than any QB in the NFL save Peyton Manning is substandard. Alleging that raising the Chiefs output to 378 YPG is "not proven" and appealing to unwritten draft rules seems like a serious lapse in judgment here.

We don't know the full story on Tyler Thigpen yet but we sure as heck know he can get 24 PPG and make things happen.

What kind of bizarro fucktard world exists wherein not being sold that a guy is a franchise QB after 4 games somehow equates to blaming him for the woes of the offense and the team as a whole?

Look at this stretch of games:

20-33, 328, 5 TDs
18-37, 248, 1 TD
10-18, 204, 2 TDs
22-43, 287, 2 TDs
18-25, 245, 3 TDs
18-25, 248, 3 TDs
29-48, 368, 0 TDs
16-35, 123, 3 TDs

19 Touchdowns in 8 games. Over 2000 Yards, 57% Completions.

Obviously a franchise QB. He actually won starts, too.

Or how about this guy, who took over for an injured QB:

in 7 starts, 57% Completions, 1773 yards, 12 TDs, 8 picks.

Or how about this guy, who led his team to 13-3:

60% Completions, 18 TDs, 7 Picks, went to the Pro Bowl and got his team HFA.


They are, in order:

Derek Anderson
Scott Mitchell
Jake Plummer

Obviously, we should use short sample sizes and, especially when in the case of the above two, use a half season before teams have film on him as the true arbiter of his long term ability.

Christ, you're gullible.

[Brock]

Look at our red zone production and I'll let you figure it out.

The inability for this team to punch it in from the one yard line has nothing to do with the RB. They're not moving anybody off the ball.

[biggunns]

:shake:Over the past 4 games, the Chiefs offense is averaging 378 yards per game and 24.2 points per game. None of us would dare hope for numbers like that back in September when the team was averaging 12.5 PPG and about 270 YPG.


C'mon, guys. Let's accentuate the positive. Something really good is going here with a bunch of young, inexperienced players and the greatest TE of all time.


Hello we have lost 19 of 20 games...nothing positive about losses...young teams need to learn to WIN...until there is a GM and HC change in KC the attitude of being a looser will continue...if some people want to be happy about almost getting a win thats fine but for me i want to win not almost win.

[CoMoChief]

Which is exactly why we should not ignore the position in the next draft if a franchise type QB is available to us.

I like what Thigpen is doing as much as you do, but if he turns out to be a flash in the pan, we have set this franchise back another year if we do not address the position.

I failed to see where Hamas is blaming Thigpen for anything. If I missed it, maybe you could point it out to me?

We shouldnt ignore it, but I wouldn't spend a first or second round pick on a QB. We have more gaping needs on this team that show why we are where we are.

-We have no pass rush
-We can't stop the run
- LB's can't fill gaps (see 2nd bullet)
-Our safeties get beat deep, but this is the least of needs on defense if we were to get a pass rush
-Our right side of Oline is horrendous

We need to go Trench Warefare in this next draft. It's a must. I heard the Eagles are wanting to get rid of Shane Andrews.......I'd give top money for that guy to come to KC. Add along a Duke Robinson and we have ourselves a helluva Oline.

[PhillyChiefFan]

We need to go Trench Warefare in this next draft. It's a must. I heard the Eagles are wanting to get rid of Shane Andrews.......I'd give top money for that guy to come to KC. Add along a Duke Robinson and we have ourselves a helluva Oline.


:clap: I completely agree.

I think you are talking about Shawn Andrews? RG, Phila Eagles?

If you are, he has some personal issues. He missed a few games this season because of depression, and according to the Eagles is still suffering from it.

Might be someone to look at, and he is good when he is on the field though.

And I would love to pick up Duke Robinson, unfortunately I don't think he will be there by the 2nd round.

[xbarretx]

This defense needs help......bad. Brian Orakpo here we come!!!!!

Guy is a ****in monster.

so he can be our next "the falcon" (or what ever the name was for Derrick thomas)?

p.s. yes i know that hes not a MLB .... i was mainly asking and referring to DT's amazing speed

[Micjones]

1. Orakpo,Tex (or Michael Johnson GT)
2. Spikes, UF


:clap:

I'd shit myself if we were able to pull that off.
Spikes is a beast!

If we can snag those two guys in the opening two rounds of the Draft we'd be in great shape to fill plenty of holes on this team this off-season. That would go directly to the heart of our defensive problems and free us up to Draft a Guard, RT, or QB with our #3.

[BettorFan]

Thigpen is the man...good things to come

[Micjones]

Thigpen is the man...good things to come

My faith in him grows after every game.
Even with a two pick day on Sunday the guy showed guts coming out and slinging that 3rd TD.

[Rausch]

The inability for this team to punch it in from the one yard line has nothing to do with the RB. They're not moving anybody off the ball.

No team with two offensive lineman will.

All the credit in the world though to Chan for scratching his preseason gameplan/offense and adapting to the talent.

Chan: took a bunch of scrubs and castoffs and made them look almost respectable.

Gun:...Not so much...

[Micjones]

No team with two offensive lineman will.

All the credit in the world though to Chan for scratching his preseason gameplan/offense and adapting to the talent.

Chan: took a bunch of scrubs and castoffs and made them look almost respectable.

Gun:...Not so much...

Is Gunther being given the same freedom though?
The Defensive scheme hasn't changed.

[chiefsngop]

No team with two offensive lineman will.

All the credit in the world though to Chan for scratching his preseason gameplan/offense and adapting to the talent.

Chan: took a bunch of scrubs and castoffs and made them look almost respectable.

Gun:...Not so much...

Gunther is gonna get canned, and deservedly so.

But if Herm forces the guy that comes in to use the old, not even used by Tampa anymore, Tampa 2 ; I don't anticipate much improvement.

Until Herm is fired or forces himself to abandon his beloved Tampa 2, how can this _efence succeed ??

[Brock]

Gunther is gonna get canned, and deservedly so.

That's not what Herm says.

[Rausch]

That's not what Herm says.

And Clark appears to be deeply in love with Herm so...

[chiefsngop]

That's not what Herm says.

Stop, Stop, Stop. I'm at work, can't afford to spend the whole day puking in the sh*tter.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

My faith in him grows after every game.
Even with a two pick day on Sunday the guy showed guts coming out and slinging that 3rd TD.

:spock:

What was exactly "gutsy" about throwing a 45 yard go that was underthrown by five yards and was only a TD because the defender fell down?

Can't we be a little bit reasonable here?

[Rain Man]

Is Gunther being given the same freedom though?
The Defensive scheme hasn't changed.

This is an interesting train of thought for us to pursue.

So...when the offensive coordinator finally convinces the head coach to change his conservative system to something more aggressive, the offense gets good.

The defensive coordinator hasn't yet convinced the head coach to abandong his conservative system to something more aggressive, and the defense keeps getting worse.


It's almost as if, wait, let me think about this, it's almost as if the head coach is the problem.

[Calcountry]

We need a defensive coordinator that Herm will leave alone to do his job.
Hard to say that should be Gunther given what we have seen, but you can't help but think the Herm influence and his insistence of cover who defense is part of the problem.We need to get rid of Herm, Gunther, and all the subordinants. Oh,and they can catch up to carl before the door slams in on his ass on the way out.

[CoMoChief]

Gunther stays......people get laid.

[Skip Towne]

This is an interesting train of thought for us to pursue.

So...when the offensive coordinator finally convinces the head coach to change his conservative system to something more aggressive, the offense gets good.

The defensive coordinator hasn't yet convinced the head coach to abandong his conservative system to something more aggressive, and the defense keeps getting worse.


It's almost as if, wait, let me think about this, it's almost as if the head coach is the problem.

Ya think?

[CoMoChief]

This is an interesting train of thought for us to pursue.

So...when the offensive coordinator finally convinces the head coach to change his conservative system to something more aggressive, the offense gets good.

The defensive coordinator hasn't yet convinced the head coach to abandong his conservative system to something more aggressive, and the defense keeps getting worse.


It's almost as if, wait, let me think about this, it's almost as if the head coach is the problem.

Pretty much why Herm won't ever win a championship unless he comes across a Peyton Manning and an offensive guru that will tell him to STFU!!!!

He's waaaaay to stubborn to change even the slightest bit.

It took Dungy a Peyton Manning and a good OC to open up his eyes from being so damn conservative.

Now I know we don't exactly have that here. But offensively things are changing for the better, and Herm's adapting to it as so it seems. At least its going somewhere.

Defensively I have no fucking clue whats going on.

[StcChief]

This is an interesting train of thought for us to pursue.

So...when the offensive coordinator finally convinces the head coach to change his conservative system to something more aggressive, the offense gets good.

The defensive coordinator hasn't yet convinced the head coach to abandong his conservative system to something more aggressive, and the defense keeps getting worse.


It's almost as if, wait, let me think about this, it's almost as if the head coach is the problem.Gun isn't allowed change system sounds about right.... had to have it simplified it but not changed. :hmmm:

So Herm needs to try something else (let Gun do something) or 1-15 is where we will be.... barring a lucky game win or 2.

[RustShack]

Say we wipe out everything in the offseason. New GM, new coaches, the whole thing. What happens with Gailey? Does the new coach bring in a new OC, change back to a pro offense? Then we would be just as bad on offense as we are defense...

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Defensively I have no fucking clue whats going on.

It's not rocket science. The Cover 2 without a good pass rush is a prevent defense. You simply cannot run that system without absolutely elite talent at every level of the defense, and even then the talent that makes it work best is extremely vulnerable to getting steamrolled by a strong interior line.

It's just like how you can't run the Coryell O without great bookend tackles, let alone ones who shouldn't be starting.

[talastan]

So would the 4-3 that Marty and Gun ran back in the late 90's, would that work here as well. If we're not being aggressive enough than does that mean we go to multiple blitz packages, and let our LB focus less on coverage? Not trying to be sarcastic, just honestly wondering what people on the planet would want to see based on who we've got on the field right now?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

So would the 4-3 that Marty and Gun ran back in the late 90's, would that work here as well. If we're not being aggressive enough than does that mean we go to multiple blitz packages, and let our LB focus less on coverage? Not trying to be sarcastic, just honestly wondering what people on the planet would want to see based on who we've got on the field right now?

Well, DJ should be used in a downhill role, because he's a very good rush backer. I don't know if Flowers or Carr are physically strong enough to jam guys at the line.

What I would probably do is run more of a Cover 1 with variants of man press.

From a coverage standpoint, I'd bracket whoever Carr is covering on most downs, and match him up against the #1. He has the speed to run with them, but he's not a shut down corner. If you give him safety help, they can neutralize a #1 receiver to a large extent. Just play Flowers straight up on the #2 and take your chances. He's a good corner with solid instincts, and save for a team like Arizona or Dallas, he's going to match up well with most #2's.

You need to move Johnson all over the field, and have him blitz from all angles. Pollard, in a Cover 1, could be sent on a blitz far more often, as he's good in that role, and one of the backers, preferably Williams, could drop back into the middle to cover the vacated spot.

They need to use more stunts to get pressure with the front four, but they also need to have a pretty exotic blitz scheme to get consistent pressure.

That's been the best system for our talent for the last 3 years, but we continue to put a square peg in a round hole with the Cover 2.

Also, we'd be better off getting a true run stuffer DT who clocks in at 330-340 so that Dorsey can be more of a penetrator.

[Micjones]

:spock:

What was exactly "gutsy" about throwing a 45 yard go that was underthrown by five yards and was only a TD because the defender fell down?

Can't we be a little bit reasonable here?

He had cost his team 14 points off turnovers, but he stayed composed and confident enough to make and complete that throw.

That's perfectly reasonable. Some QB's fold and miss their receivers altogether after two consecutive INT's (one which went back the other way for 6).

[talastan]

Well, DJ should be used in a downhill role, because he's a very good rush backer. I don't know if Flowers or Carr are physically strong enough to jam guys at the line.

What I would probably do is run more of a Cover 1 with variants of man press.

From a coverage standpoint, I'd bracket whoever Carr is covering on most downs, and match him up against the #1. He has the speed to run with them, but he's not a shut down corner. If you give him safety help, they can neutralize a #1 receiver to a large extent. Just play Flowers straight up on the #2 and take your chances. He's a good corner with solid instincts, and save for a team like Arizona or Dallas, he's going to match up well with most #2's.

You need to move Johnson all over the field, and have him blitz from all angles. Pollard, in a Cover 1, could be sent on a blitz far more often, as he's good in that role, and one of the backers, preferably Williams, could drop back into the middle to cover the vacated spot.

They need to use more stunts to get pressure with the front four, but they also need to have a pretty exotic blitz scheme to get consistent pressure.

That's been the best system for our talent for the last 3 years, but we continue to put a square peg in a round hole with the Cover 2.

Also, we'd be better off getting a true run stuffer DT who clocks in at 330-340 so that Dorsey can be more of a penetrator.

Thank you Hamas, I'm just curious as to why Herm doesn't just Wake the **** up. Just like the O, if we can't run what we ran earlier with the current players on the field use what we can and make adjustments. It would seem IMO that changing up the offense would be alot more difficult than changing up the scheme of the D. So why haven't we? Is Gun too gunshy to approach Herm or Is Herm just a Stubborn SOB who won't change his _efense to attack teams.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Thank you Hamas, I'm just curious as to why Herm doesn't just Wake the **** up. Just like the O, if we can't run what we ran earlier with the current players on the field use what we can and make adjustments. It would seem IMO that changing up the offense would be alot more difficult than changing up the scheme of the D. So why haven't we? Is Gun too gunshy to approach Herm or Is Herm just a Stubborn SOB who won't change his _efense to attack teams.

Because outside of Bill Belichick, most coaches in this league aren't smart enough to realize that you have to change your scheme to maximize the talents of your players.

Basically, they are of the belief that because they first got laid by a brunette, that no other hair color will suffice.

[talastan]

Basically, they are of the belief that because they first got laid by a brunette, that no other hair color will suffice.

ROFL

[BigMeatballDave]

Hopefully he's learning that experienced guys like Chan know what they are doing and he will let Gun run the D the way that the talent on hand supports.Gun sucks. Face it.

[BigMeatballDave]

The offense is a problem. Have you seen our red zone offense do jack squat? Yea, me either.Not nearly as much as the D.

[BigMeatballDave]

Dantrell Savage is not an NFL caliber player. He's too small, too slow, and goes down too easily. How is this even a debate? :clap: I thought I was the only one who thought this...

[Chief Faithful]

I agree if there is a franchise QB available in the draft and the team can snag him then that should be top priority. But, I do not see a franchise QB available for the 2009 draft instead the top talent all seem to be reach picks if choosen in the top 10. As this team has sooo many needs I suggest the trade down approach. This team needs a DE, MLB and OT in the first two rounds. The third round is a great time to snag a C. The rest of the needs can be filled through latter rounds or in free agency.

[JuicesFlowing]

Thigpen is a Fantasy Football whore. He had a "bad" week and still scored 17 points. Not bad.

[KCJohnny]

Just like the O, if we can't run what we ran earlier with the current players on the field use what we can and make adjustments. It would seem IMO that changing up the offense would be alot more difficult than changing up the scheme of the D. So why haven't we? Is Gun too gunshy to approach Herm or Is Herm just a Stubborn SOB who won't change his _efense to attack teams.

[B.] Herm's fingerprints are all over this Tampa 2-wannabe-_efense.

Look, the franchise made a quality decision to go for the total rebuild and a youth movement. There are eighteen (18) rookies on the Chiefs squad - I would guess most are on the defense. Losing Jared Allen has proven to be huge. Injuries have forced the Chiefs to hire guys on Monday and play them on Sunday.

The D made significant progress in 2007 but the decision to let Allen go and the youth movement set the progress back. This D has stunk miserably - and there is ample blame to spread around - but still managed 21 takeaways (5th in the NFL).

Some pricey FAs in the off season will help.

[DaKCMan AP]

[B.]

Some pricey FAs in the off season will help.

No.

[MahiMike]

The wins WOULD come, but we have the worst defense in the league.

So, let me get this straight.

We fired the coach that set NFL records on offense and was an automatic 30+ points per game.

Check.

We then go out and get a defensive-minded coach and dismantle both sides of the ball.

Check.

Now as we "rebuild", it's our offense that's coming around and our defense can't stop a wet bag?

Check.

Ever feel like this team is a dog chasing its tail?:cuss:

[KCJohnny]

I agree if there is a franchise QB available in the draft and the team can snag him then that should be top priority. But, I do not see a franchise QB available for the 2009 draft instead the top talent all seem to be reach picks if choosen in the top 10. As this team has sooo many needs I suggest the trade down approach. This team needs a DE, MLB and OT in the first two rounds. The third round is a great time to snag a C. The rest of the needs can be filled through latter rounds or in free agency.

I'm not against drafting a QB as long its a sure bet (if there is such a thing). I think Tyler/Gray are a good tandem with Chan Gailey at the helm. As you point out, there are sooo many needs on this roster. Its also too soon to know how some of the 18 rookies on the 2008 Chiefs roster are going to develop. There may be a couple diamonds in the rough and its too soon to tell yet who they are.

[mikey23545]

So, let me get this straight.

We fired the coach that set NFL records on offense and was an automatic 30+ points per game.

Check.

We then go out and get a defensive-minded coach and dismantle both sides of the ball.

Check.

Now as we "rebuild", it's our offense that's coming around and our defense can't stop a wet bag?

Check.

Ever feel like this team is a dog chasing its tail?:cuss:

Oh for f#cks sake, Vermeil wasn't fired, he retired...Just a bit of difference there, wouldn't you say?

[DaKCMan AP]

I'm not against drafting a QB as long its a sure bet

:doh!:

[BigChiefFan]

Not nearly as much as the D.I agree, but I'm not willing to throw out the ENTIRE SEASON, just because the offense has had 4 decent games on offense. The big picture says they still stunk. Yes, Thiggy has done a better job with the offense, but that doesn't give the entire team a free pass in my book and four decent games doesn't guarantee us squat, nor does it negate the shit play from the offense for the majority of the season.

[Brock]

Oh for f#cks sake, Vermeil wasn't fired, he retired...Just a bit of difference there, wouldn't you say?

He could be talking about Saunders, but honestly, even that's pretty dumb.

[BigChiefFan]

I think his point is accurate. Edwards was brought in to fix the defense. He hasn't.

[Reerun_KC]

I agree, but I'm not willing to throw out the ENTIRE SEASON, just because the offense has had 4 decent games on offense. The big picture says they still stunk. Yes, Thiggy has done a better job with the offense, but that doesn't give the entire team a free pass in my book and four decent games doesn't guarantee us squat, nor does it negate the shit play from the offense for the majority of last 20 games...

No way this team or staff gets any free pass or oral pleasing the homers decide to throw their way...

The offense has let this team down plenty over the last two years, right along with the defense...

This thing needs stripped down and rebuilt properly, starting with a new GM and quality NFL coaching staff. This joke people are hanging their hats on is truly "true fan" pride...

[TEX]

Chan = Good coach. Designed an offense around talents of players

Herm/Gun/Defensive staff = Horrible coaches. All have had long enough to show some kind of improvement on defense. Players come and go but the results stay the same. WE TOTALLY SUCK! That points directly to poor coaching. The joke is that Herm was brought in to fix the defense - he has failed.

[KCJohnny]

beat me to it. A new DC is a must if we are going to compete.

Cover/Tampa 2 is outdated IMHO.

Herm said this week that the coordinators were coming back in 2009 because "we are building something here." So if Cunningham is the DC, then the scheme needs to flex to the talent on hand and not vice versa. I want to bring in some pricey FA talent to bridge the developmental gap between were we are (youngest team in the NFL with 18 rookies on the roster) and where we'll be in 2010-11.

[DaKCMan AP]

I want to bring in some pricey FA talent

:shake:

[Mecca]

If they think they're building something good on D with those coaches they're on meth.

[Reerun_KC]

If anyone thinks were building anything good period with those coaches they're on meth.

FYP :D

[milkman]

What a bunch of fucking idiots.

Herman fucking Edwards is not forcing Cunther to run his defense.
He has been given the freedom to do whatever the fuck he wants.

In the preseason, Herman fucking Edwards talked about the defense and (I'm paraphrasing here) said that Cunther was going to have to be creative in order to maximize positive results.

And in the early games, Cunther attempted blitzes, and a coupl of stunts.

The problem is that Cunther is dumbfuck who has never, ever accomplished anything on his own, and his blitzes, with the exception of one play, were easily read and neutralized.

He's running Herman fucking Edwards defense because he doesn't have a clue how to run one of his own.

He sucks, and we are all stupider for having read this stupid fucking thread.

[KCJohnny]

...and we are all stupider for having read this stupid ****ing thread.

:shrug:

Its not like you were forced. Hey John, ever thought of consulting a thesaurus? A few new adjectives would make for more interesting reading for the rest of us.

[HIChief]

The wins WOULD come, but we have the worst defense in the league.

I'm voting your avatar the funniest, and the best!

[FringeNC]

What kind of bizarro ****tard world exists wherein not being sold that a guy is a franchise QB after 4 games somehow equates to blaming him for the woes of the offense and the team as a whole?

Look at this stretch of games:

20-33, 328, 5 TDs
18-37, 248, 1 TD
10-18, 204, 2 TDs
22-43, 287, 2 TDs
18-25, 245, 3 TDs
18-25, 248, 3 TDs
29-48, 368, 0 TDs
16-35, 123, 3 TDs

19 Touchdowns in 8 games. Over 2000 Yards, 57% Completions.

Obviously a franchise QB. He actually won starts, too.

Or how about this guy, who took over for an injured QB:

in 7 starts, 57% Completions, 1773 yards, 12 TDs, 8 picks.

Or how about this guy, who led his team to 13-3:

60% Completions, 18 TDs, 7 Picks, went to the Pro Bowl and got his team HFA.


They are, in order:

Derek Anderson
Scott Mitchell
Jake Plummer

Obviously, we should use short sample sizes and, especially when in the case of the above two, use a half season before teams have film on him as the true arbiter of his long term ability.

Christ, you're gullible.

Not completely fair. You could have plugged any anyone QB who could bootleg and he'd put up those numbers for Denver given their running attack. Kordell Stewart is another who put a great year based on the talent around him and how little he was asked to do.

Watching these games, Thigpen is the center of this offense in no way resembling any of those others you have mentioned. The last turnaround on offense I can remember like this one was when Dallas benched Bledsoe for Romo, and that was not as dramatic as this one.

The only argument against Thigpen is that this really is a gimmick offense. If not, this turnaround suggest Thipgen is VERY good.

[RandilKC]

It's clearly not a gimmick offense. Thigpen limits it, though.

[Hootie]

I like Thigpen, I don't know if he's a good QB or if Gailey is making him appear as if he is a good QB...we'll see...either way, Gailey might be SAVING Herm's job, which is not a good thing. Herm and Gunther have to go.

[SAUTO]

It's clearly not a gimmick offense. Thigpen limits it, though.

see this is bullshit, claythan is banned and still talking shit

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Not completely fair. You could have plugged any anyone QB who could bootleg and he'd put up those numbers for Denver given their running attack. Kordell Stewart is another who put a great year based on the talent around him and how little he was asked to do.

Watching these games, Thigpen is the center of this offense in no way resembling any of those others you have mentioned. The last turnaround on offense I can remember like this one was when Dallas benched Bledsoe for Romo, and that was not as dramatic as this one.

The only argument against Thigpen is that this really is a gimmick offense. If not, this turnaround suggest Thipgen is VERY good.

The center of this offense is Tony Gonzalez and Dwayne Bowe.

There are several arguments against Thigpen.

1) Inaccuracy
2) Throws a poor deep ball
3) Lack of film/hasn't had to make any adjustments yet

It never ceases to amaze me how incapable Chiefs fans are of taking things in perspective. FFS, Ryan Leaf won his first two starts, and that's the most important stat of all.

[SAUTO]

It never ceases to amaze me how incapable Chiefs fans are of taking things in perspective. FFS, Ryan Leaf won his first two starts, and that's the most important stat of all.

it never ceases to amaze me that people just seem to gloss over that fact that this guy is basically a rookie in his what 7th start? and what does leaf have to do with anything? now you are comparing him to a #2 IIRC overall?

[KCJohnny]

It never ceases to amaze me how incapable Chiefs fans are of taking things in perspective. FFS, Ryan Leaf won his first two starts, and that's the most important stat of all.

Well we have you, O great one, to insult our participation in a harmless fan forum and condescend to us peons with your transcendant judgments.

Oh, and for those of us untermensch, we have the benefit of your suggestions of suicide to help us to stay in our place.

Should we all run our proposed posts through your PM account to see if you approve before posting?

Me? I'm gaining all kinds of perspective from Mr. Hamas Jenkins.

Go Chiefs!
:arrow:

[RandilKC]

KCJohnny, how about Gunther? He's awesome.

[dj56dt58]

It's clearly not a gimmick offense. Thigpen limits it, though.

Why do people keep calling it a gimmick offense? They don't run the wild cat that often like the Dolphins do, unless your referring to the spread offense which isn't a gimmick, several very good offensive teams/superbowl winning teams have used it

[KCJohnny]

Why do people keep calling it a gimmick offense? They don't run the wild cat that often like the Dolphins do, unless your referring to the spread offense which isn't a gimmick, several very good offensive teams/superbowl winning teams have used it

Yeah, remember those gimmicky 2007 Pats that went 18-0 and set and NFL scoring record? The spread is a gimmick. I mean look at Matt Cassell - anyone ever heard of him? Yest he has the Pats O humming along pretty nicely.

dj56dt58, some people are just not willing to give Chan/Tyler any credit.

[chiefsngop]

What a bunch of ****ing idiots.

Herman ****ing Edwards is not forcing ****her to run his defense.
He has been given the freedom to do whatever the **** he wants.

In the preseason, Herman ****ing Edwards talked about the defense and (I'm paraphrasing here) said that ****her was going to have to be creative in order to maximize positive results.

And in the early games, ****her attempted blitzes, and a coupl of stunts.

The problem is that ****her is dumb**** who has never, ever accomplished anything on his own, and his blitzes, with the exception of one play, were easily read and neutralized.

He's running Herman ****ing Edwards defense because he doesn't have a clue how to run one of his own.

He sucks, and we are all stupider for having read this stupid ****ing thread.

I'm in agreement that Gunther has to go.

But the Tampa 2 is not Gunther's defense, it's Herms.

You didn't see Gun running the Tampa 2 his first go around here, nor did he run after we shipped him out.

Herm has been in love with the Tampa 2 since the dawn of time, Gun comes back & gets matched with Herm and we start running the 2. Not hard to figure whose idea this defensive scheme was.

[KCJohnny]

I'm in agreement that Gunther has to go.

But the Tampa 2 is not Gunther's defense, it's Herms.

You didn't see Gun running the Tampa 2 his first go around here, nor did he run after we shipped him out.

Herm has been in love with the Tampa 2 since the dawn of time, Gun comes back & gets matched with Herm and we start running the 2. Not hard to figure whose idea this defensive scheme was.

Herm says Gun's returning in '09. We can only hope he let's the Dcoord steer the squad the way he let the Ocoord go away from R2P2 to develop an athlete-friendly system that optimizes the talent on hand. It would seem to me that allowing that type of flexibility would be even more urgent for the defensive unit.

[Hammock Parties]

KCJohnny, can you bump a few more of your threads? Thanks.

[KCJohnny]

KCJohnny, can you bump a few more of your threads? Thanks.

Glad you enjoy reading them. As you request, more on the way!
:)

[Hammock Parties]

Interesting stat - can you believe we are second in the NFL in yards per carry?

Our running game is nowhere near that consistent, though. One of the weirdest stats this team has produced in years.

[milkman]

I'm in agreement that Gunther has to go.

But the Tampa 2 is not Gunther's defense, it's Herms.

You didn't see Gun running the Tampa 2 his first go around here, nor did he run after we shipped him out.

Herm has been in love with the Tampa 2 since the dawn of time, Gun comes back & gets matched with Herm and we start running the 2. Not hard to figure whose idea this defensive scheme was.

Cunther ran Marty's defense when he was here in his first stint.
Cunther has never accomplished anything on his own.

He is fucking clueless.

[Silock]

As bad as our defense sucks, it's not the system. It's the fact that we can't bring the heat on the QB without blitzing. If we only rush 4, the other team can block us all day long.

The scheme may have a little bit to do with it, but our defensive line SUCKS. And so do our LBs.

[milkman]

As bad as our defense sucks, it's not the system. It's the fact that we can't bring the heat on the QB without blitzing. If we only rush 4, the other team can block us all day long.

The scheme may have a little bit to do with it, but our defensive line SUCKS. And so do our LBs.

Cunther tried numerous blitzes early in the season, but Cunther's blitz schemes suck, so they failed.

And even with these problems, the primary reason this defense is sucking historical balls is piss poor tackling.

Piss poor tackiling has always been a staple of Cunther defense.

[RINGLEADER]

I'm sold on Thigpen as the QBotF and hope that he can get a couple of wins this season but with our defense that will be tough. Hopefully he does get better with more practice and more games under his belt.

Although stats don't mean as much as wins it is worth noting that since the Thigpen era started against the New York Jets the offense is averaging 369 yards on offense and just over 24 ppg. That would rank us as the #5 offense in the league in terms of yards and the #14 offense in the league in terms of scoring. Not bad considering where we were headed into October.

Even with Thigpen and our better offensive performances we still need to get better all over the place - particularly in third-down conversions where we haven't really improved any during the last five games (except at San Diego where we went 7/14 on third down).

But all the other points made herein are true: We have a very young team that is starting to click on offense. We need a new defensive coordinator who can come in and instill some confidence on that side of the ball and we need a GM who will go out and spend the money necessary to pick up a proven pass rushing defensive end.

[RINGLEADER]

****her tried numerous blitzes early in the season, but ****her's blitz schemes suck, so they failed.

And even with these problems, the primary reason this defense is sucking historical balls is piss poor tackling.

Piss poor tackiling has always been a staple of ****her defense.


I can't stand Gunther Cunningham.

Living off the fumes of the 90's.

He's the Chris O'Donnell of the NFL.

[Rain Man]

As bad as our defense sucks, it's not the system. It's the fact that we can't bring the heat on the QB without blitzing. If we only rush 4, the other team can block us all day long.

The scheme may have a little bit to do with it, but our defensive line SUCKS. And so do our LBs.

The question then becomes, why do they SUCK? We have 2 1st-round picks, a 2nd-round pick, and a 3rd-round pick on the line, setting aside short-term injuries.

[FringeNC]

****her tried numerous blitzes early in the season, but ****her's blitz schemes suck, so they failed.

And even with these problems, the primary reason this defense is sucking historical balls is piss poor tackling.

Piss poor tackiling has always been a staple of ****her defense.

One big problem with both Greg Robinson's and Gunther's blitzes is that is/was always so easy to determine when and who were blitzing.

[FringeNC]

Whether Tony G demands a trade or retires may tell us something meaningful about what he thinks of Thigpen's future. I have a feeling Tony G. may be having fun again now that we shit-canned Herm's offense.

[Rain Man]

One big problem with both Greg Robinson's and Gunther's blitzes is that is/was always so easy to determine when and who were blitzing.

I've never understood that. For ten+ years, I've watched Chiefs would-be blitzers run up and dance back and forth on the line while the quarterback points and changes plays. If I was a defensive coordinator, the first thing I'd do is have a plan to disguise blitzes. It's grade-school stuff, but we don't do it.

[SAUTO]

I've never understood that. For ten+ years, I've watched Chiefs would-be blitzers run up and dance back and forth on the line while the quarterback points and changes plays. If I was a defensive coordinator, the first thing I'd do is have a plan to disguise blitzes. It's grade-school stuff, but we don't do it.

i somewhat liked the way the bills line up their dline and lbs, what do they call it? the mull around defense?

[milkman]

I've never understood that. For ten+ years, I've watched Chiefs would-be blitzers run up and dance back and forth on the line while the quarterback points and changes plays. If I was a defensive coordinator, the first thing I'd do is have a plan to disguise blitzes. It's grade-school stuff, but we don't do it.

Stupidity is sometimes dificult to understand.

[SAUTO]

Stupidity is sometimes dificult to understand.

ROFL thats true

[KCJohnny]

I'm sold on Thigpen as the QBotF and hope that he can get a couple of wins this season but with our defense that will be tough. Hopefully he does get better with more practice and more games under his belt.

Although stats don't mean as much as wins it is worth noting that since the Thigpen era started against the New York Jets the offense is averaging 369 yards on offense and just over 24 ppg. That would rank us as the #5 offense in the league in terms of yards and the #14 offense in the league in terms of scoring. Not bad considering where we were headed into October.

Even with Thigpen and our better offensive performances we still need to get better all over the place - particularly in third-down conversions where we haven't really improved any during the last five games (except at San Diego where we went 7/14 on third down).

But all the other points made herein are true: We have a very young team that is starting to click on offense. We need a new defensive coordinator who can come in and instill some confidence on that side of the ball and we need a GM who will go out and spend the money necessary to pick up a proven pass rushing defensive end.

We're not getting the new Dcoord, so let's focus on the progress of the offense -which started the season as the #32 ranked and has climbed all season long. We have 18 - EIGHTEEN rookies on the roster and many 2nd and 3rd year players. We are the youngest team in the NFL. I would expect the youngest team in the NFL to go 1-10. The fact that there is significant progress is a cause for hope.

The 2009 Chiefs can realistically shoot for 8-8 with the 2010 Chiefs shooting for 12-4. Anything short of that would be a failure in modern NFL terms.