First true test of our "gimmick" offense?

[FringeNC]

If indeed our offense in a gimmick, SD should have no problem stopping us, given this is the second time they have faced it.

I predict we get at least 300 yards, which is certainly above the pre-gimmick average.

[jidar]

the gimmick argument is horseshit anyway. If it's working it's working. If NFL defenses figure it out, then okay we move on, but if it keeps working then it's what we keep running and imo it's not gimmick either way..

[Otter]

I remember when Priest first started doing good, he was a "gimmick" as well.

[King_Chief_Fan]

If indeed our offense in a gimmick, SD should have no problem stopping us, given this is the second time they have faced it.

I predict we get at least 300 yards, which is certainly above the pre-gimmick average.

Denver had no problem stopping it and in reality neither did Oakland.
The offense quit being creative and it is now as predictable as RRPP.

SD 30
KC 13

[Deberg_1990]

I believe the first true test of our gimmick offense was the Jets game.

It worked, so the Chiefs will continue to use it, until it does not.

[Brock]

Denver had no problem stopping it and in reality neither did Oakland.
The offense quit being creative and it is now as predictable as RRPP.

SD 30
KC 13

Denver didn't stop it, the Chiefs didn't execute properly. There isn't anything wrong with the playcalling.

[petegz28]

Our offense is a patchwork scheme thrown together in an emergency cause we found ourselves starting our 3rd string QB. And I'd say the way the team has responded and executed something they never prepared for, as opposed to traning camp, this offense and Thigy will be fine. And if it has to change after a bit then it changes. That is the NFL.

[SAUTO]

Our offense is a patchwork scheme thrown together in an emergency cause we found ourselves starting our 3rd string QB. And I'd say the way the team has responded and executed something they never prepared for, as opposed to traning camp, this offense and Thigy will be fine. And if it has to change after a bit then it changes. That is the NFL.

it seems to be a work in progress, changes every week

[StcChief]

we didn't execute or we beat Dungver.....

Like to see a W vs. Chargers to show their SB window is slamming shut.

[CoMoChief]

This argument is horseshit.

[Reerun_KC]

we didn't execute or we beat Dungver.....

Like to see a W vs. Chargers to show their SB window is slamming shut.

Actually take away a gift from Oakland and a pick six from Cutler and this offense has scored 13 and 10 points in the last 2 games...

I thought we were supposed to be explosive and could average 24 pts a game?


Gimmick or not, this offense is starting to fail at producing arena league type points...

[Reerun_KC]

This argument is horseshit.

So is our scoring production over the last 2 games...

[petegz28]

it seems to be a work in progress, changes every week

I think everyone is taking an unfair shot at this offense and the "spread" or "pistol". Given the situation, I think this is as good as can be hoped for.

Now, after a full off-season of planning and schemeing and learning, it will be interesting to see what we do next year.

[petegz28]

So is our scoring production over the last 2 games...

Yeah, Denver had the ball 36 mins. Cutler was touched 0 times. The defense had nothing to do with our low scoring. Granted our playcalling is lacking in the red zone. I hate that fade pass. Notice when we bootlegged, we scored.

[StcChief]

Actually take away a gift from Oakland and a pick six from Cutler and this offense has scored 13 and 10 points in the last 2 games...

I thought we were supposed to be explosive and could average 24 pts a game?


Gimmick or not, this offense is starting to fail at producing arena league type points...I agree. Chokeland,Dungver gave us points....
we haven't be executing efficently. Play calling or situation for the right play???

Enough tape is available on how to beat the Wildcat/Pistol etc we are trying.

Execution is still our issue. The QB draw from 6 yards out was the worst last week.

[Reerun_KC]

Yeah, Denver had the ball 36 mins. Cutler was touched 0 times. The defense had nothing to do with our low scoring. Granted our playcalling is lacking in the red zone. I hate that fade pass. Notice when we bootlegged, we scored.

Not arguing about the defense... Just saying that our spread offense with Thigpen is not producing points...

I guess we will see how we stack up against SD this weekend. But if we fail to score at least 24 (Arena Style), then we might want to take a look and debate why we are failing to put the ball in the endzone?

[Deberg_1990]

It seems Bradly is the magical potion that makes this offense hum.

[Reerun_KC]

I agree. Chokeland,Dungver gave us points....
we haven't be executing efficently. Play calling or situation for the right play???

Enough tape is available on how to beat the Wildcat/Pistol etc we are trying.

Execution is still our issue. The QB draw from 6 yards out was the worst last week.

We only have 4 plays in the redzone, none of which include our HOF TE.. Which is just baffling to say the least...

Yes we have had two very nice Gifts in the last two games that have kept us in it or allowed us to win. I would like to see this pistola offense actually produce in the redzone...

I thought Gailey was the man, I am still seeing touches of Herm in the play calling the closer we get to the goal line... The plays become safter with less risk on the pass (Fade) and less attempts down the field or endzone, unless it is the Fade, which is hard to pick off...

Execution? Herm? Oh please please please!

[EyePod]

the gimmick argument is horseshit anyway. If it's working it's working. If NFL defenses figure it out, then okay we move on, but if it keeps working then it's what we keep running and imo it's not gimmick either way..

I agree. I think a bunch of teams will look into the pistol formation next season. Especially teams like Arizona and the Patriots and other pass heavy teams. It really works well for us, and I'm sure a good coach would get it to work in the red zone.

[Rausch]

I don't care if we wear clown shoes and cowbells all about our hips as long as we score 20+ points a game...

[Rausch]

It seems Bradly is the magical potion that makes this offense hum.

In a way, yes.

I think he's our Alvin Harper...

[ModSocks]

It seems Bradly is the magical potion that makes this offense hum.

I agree. Would that denver game have turned out different if Bradley where there? It seems like everytime the Chiefs are competitive, Bradley is out there making plays

[EyePod]

I don't care if we wear clown shoes and cowbells all about our hips as long as we score 20+ points a game...

It's so weird seeing us talk like this now compared to the DV times....

[Anyong Bluth]

Wrong. I won't argue the production has gone down, but the rationale behind it being gimmick is off. We still have huge talent gaps on the O-line, and this team was getting squat to start the season. Maybe the new O needs a full offseason to grow the playbook, and add talent. But. I'll give some credit for moving the scheme to better suit your personnel. I think there are some creative ideas Chan is drawing up, and incorporating it into an offense that also runs a bit of a traditional NFL offense is a smart move. Today's pro rules so heavily favor the offense and the NFL's desire for higher scoring games. That's what Herm fails to realize when he is so stubborn to let the offense get away from RRPP. This isn't the same league as it was when he was playing.

[EyePod]

Wrong. I won't argue the production has gone down, but the rationale behind it being gimmick is off. We still have huge talent gaps on the O-line, and this team was getting squat to start the season. Maybe the new O needs a full offseason to grow the playbook, and add talent. But. I'll give some credit for moving the scheme to better suit your personnel. I think there are some creative ideas Chan is drawing up, and incorporating it into an offense that also runs a bit of a traditional NFL offense is a smart move. Today's pro rules so heavily favor the offense and the NFL's desire for higher scoring games. That's what Herm fails to realize when he is so stubborn to let the offense get away from RRPP. This isn't the same league as it was when he was playing.

Yep. I think Herm and Al Davis have a conspiracy together, trying to bring back old school football. In training camp, you're gonna see those crazy ass field goal posts right on the goal line instead of the back of the endzone!

Creepy avatar btw.

[chiefsngop]

I don't know if this offensive scheme will continue to produce over the long haul.

We certainly have to change our red zone approach.

[cdcox]

The NFL practices destructive testing. In destructive testing you keep stressing something until it breaks. And everything always breaks in the NFL. You might temporarily pass a test, but eventually you will fail.

[Reerun_KC]

I don't know if this offensive scheme will continue to produce over the long haul.

We certainly have to change our red zone approach.

We really need this guy! He seemed to help Herm on his superbowl run...

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9807E2DD153EF932A15751C0A9649C8B63

[chiefzilla1501]

It seems Bradly is the magical potion that makes this offense hum.

Wouldn't be a surprise if that were true. Spread offenses usually need a few really good receivers to make it click. It's not so much that we're missing Bradley, as much as it is the fact that there is an enormous, HUGE step down from Bowe and Gonzalez to the next best option if Bradley isn't there.

I don't think the offense is a gimmick. It's a combination of many things. Gailey needs to run the ball more, he needs to do a better job of red zone playcalling, and the players need to execute.

[chiefzilla1501]

We only have 4 plays in the redzone, none of which include our HOF TE.. Which is just baffling to say the least...

Yes we have had two very nice Gifts in the last two games that have kept us in it or allowed us to win. I would like to see this pistola offense actually produce in the redzone...

I thought Gailey was the man, I am still seeing touches of Herm in the play calling the closer we get to the goal line... The plays become safter with less risk on the pass (Fade) and less attempts down the field or endzone, unless it is the Fade, which is hard to pick off...

Execution? Herm? Oh please please please!

The red zone offense has nothing to do with going back to Herm philosophy. If anything, Herm philosophy would work better. We pass way too often in the red zone and we shouldn't be using the shotgun.

We need to go back to basics in the red zone and give the rock to LJ. That's something even Vermeil did time and time again.

[Micjones]

Our offense is a patchwork scheme thrown together in an emergency cause we found ourselves starting our 3rd string QB. And I'd say the way the team has responded and executed something they never prepared for, as opposed to traning camp, this offense and Thigy will be fine. And if it has to change after a bit then it changes. That is the NFL.

Agreed.

This offense has been phenomenal given the fact that it was installed during the regular season. It's not fully operational yet. Really can't be since they have to gameplan for different opponents week to week. The offense will be in full bloom at the beginning of next season. Chan will have time to roll out the full playbook and players will have time to sit with it in the off-season.

[dj56dt58]

our offensive production went down when LJ came back..not saying its on LJ but the "pistol" hasn't worked as well as the normal spread was. We've also been running more and our Line isn't good at run blocking, especially on the right side. I think it would be worth a first round pick to get Oher or Monroe just to bring our run game back..it would be like drafting Larry Johnson in 05 form, because that's the production we would be getting

[Reerun_KC]

Agreed.

This offense has been phenomenal given the fact that it was installed during the regular season. It's not fully operational yet. Really can't be since they have to gameplan for different opponents week to week. The offense will be in full bloom at the beginning of next season. Chan will have time to roll out the full playbook and players will have time to sit with it in the off-season.


You know I hope your right Mic, This goes against EVERYTHING our HC believes in... I think he will be hard pressed to continue this "Gimmick Circus" if he can some how manage to get some better OL on the right side... This "Gimmick Circus" isnt helping our defense....

You cant fix stupid....

[Micjones]

You know I hope your right Mic, This goes against EVERYTHING our HC believes in... I think he will be hard pressed to continue this "Gimmick Circus" if he can some how manage to get some better OL on the right side... This "Gimmick Circus" isnt helping our defense....

You cant fix stupid....

Oddly, I think this helps our offense either way.
If he does want to get back to a more traditional look offensively he'll have to equip this team with Offensive Linemen both through the draft and through Free Agency.

I'd like to see the run game used a little more often, but I'm fine with bringing the overall philosophy back next season.

[Reerun_KC]

The red zone offense has nothing to do with going back to Herm philosophy. If anything, Herm philosophy would work better. We pass way too often in the red zone and we shouldn't be using the shotgun.

We need to go back to basics in the red zone and give the rock to LJ. That's something even Vermeil did time and time again.

Maybe, but the fact that we always run a few plays off tackle or throw the fade route to Bowe. Where is TG during this time?

The point I am making is, you dont see us running much to the outside down on the goal line ala DV, you dont see alot of motion, pulling of linemen or getting our center out in space to create mismatches ala DV...
Your right he did it time and time again, and he built an OL to do so as well.

Our OL is a good old fashion down home smash mouth OL that Herm has built, the problem is, the line sucks because our talent evaluation of OL sucks.

We have to be creative, yes the spread or capgun is creative. Inside the 10 yard line we have about 4-5 plays we are running consistently, That is not being creative or keeping the D guessing. That is Hermcuffing out of fear....

[Delano]

our offensive production went down when LJ came back..not saying its on LJ but the "pistol" hasn't worked as well as the normal spread was. We've also been running more and our Line isn't good at run blocking, especially on the right side. I think it would be worth a first round pick to get Oher or Monroe just to bring our run game back..it would be like drafting Larry Johnson in 05 form, because that's the production we would be getting

The Chiefs need a road grader at RT that they can run behind, not one of these top-ten, first-round, left tackles. LT is set with Branden.

[Reerun_KC]

Oddly, I think this helps our offense either way.
If he does want to get back to a more traditional look offensively he'll have to equip this team with Offensive Linemen both through the draft and through Free Agency.

I'd like to see the run game used a little more often, but I'm fine with bringing the overall philosophy back next season.

Fair Enough... Maybe it will help, Maybe it wont... Sadly Mic, regardless of our OL next year, the schedule will keep us beat down...

[Micjones]

Hopefully Chan can add a few run packages so that we can balance the offense.
If he can do that and be more creative in the redzone I think we're good to go.
I'd add another WR and some O-Linemen, hope to hell that Gonzalez comes back, and make a few scheme changes.

[Reerun_KC]

Hopefully Chan can add a few run packages so that we can balance the offense.
If he can do that and be more creative in the redzone I think we're good to go.
I'd add another WR and some O-Linemen, hope to hell that Gonzalez comes back, and make a few scheme changes.

Still unsure about TG? Has he bought into this team?

[blueballs]

it's time to unleash the secret weapon then
who is it

[Micjones]

Sadly Mic, regardless of our OL next year, the schedule will keep us beat down...

Call me crazy, but I think that's a good thing too Double-R.
This team needs to build character and some mental toughness.
I think having a tough schedule helps that process.

If you have the right coaches in place...

I hate to say it, but I think that's one of the few areas where Herm gets the job done.

[Micjones]

Still unsure about TG? Has he bought into this team?

I think he might if they make a commitment to Thigpen.
I don't know if he'll have the patience to wait it out with a new QB.

[DaneMcCloud]

then we might want to take a look and debate why we are failing to put the ball in the endzone?

Niswanger/Jones/Smith/McIntosh.

How many times do I have to say it?

If you can't see that they are the problem, then either you aren't watching the games or you don't understand how critical the right side of the offensive line is to the power running game.

[Buck]

We're going to beat the ever-living shit out of you.

[Reerun_KC]

Call me crazy, but I think that's a good thing too Double-R.
This team needs to build character and some mental toughness.
I think having a tough schedule helps that process.

If you have the right coaches in place...

If you have the right coaches in place is the key, IF we get beat down next year with that brutal schedule. This team just might fold it in and stop believing a coach that is posted a seriously losing record 3 of the last 4 years...

The coach has to give them something to believe in, going out there and choking away winning opportunities out of your own fear isnt going to install confidence in your players...

[blueballs]

We're going to beat the ever-living shit out of you.

if you leave the ever-dead shit
Herm will still walk the sidelines
you evil bastage

[Reerun_KC]

Niswanger/Jones/Smith/McIntosh.

How many times do I have to say it?

If you can't see that they are the problem, then either you aren't watching the games or you don't understand how critical the right side of the offensive line is to the power running game.

Its very critical, and I do watch the games Dane.

Problem is, with that OL that has been assembled by Herm and Carl, I dont have the faith in them that they can effectively judge talent/develop talent to shore up that Right side of the line...

Sadly this OL, just like the DL are Herms line and mostly his players. That scares the living shit out of me as a Chiefs fan...

[Reerun_KC]

I think he might if they make a commitment to Thigpen.
I don't know if he'll have the patience to wait it out with a new QB.

This should be a interesting offseason...

[FringeNC]

Teams with bad offensive lines aren't generally good in the red zone. The offensive line excuse that all the Herm fellators used early in the season was bogus when applied to the inability to get a first down -- that was all on Herm's preferred offensive philosophy. Red zone is a different story, though.

Between the 20s, Gailey and Thigpen throwing to Gonzo and Bowe make us a pretty good offensive team. Inside the 20s, we're not going to be very good until the right side of the line improves.

[StcChief]

We're going to beat the ever-living shit out of you.we know, and you should....

now let's see if we can get some rain cold help and a few breaks to help.

[Micjones]

If you have the right coaches in place is the key, IF we get beat down next year with that brutal schedule. This team just might fold it in and stop believing a coach that is posted a seriously losing record 3 of the last 4 years...

This is very possible, but I believe they'll be a better football team in spite of the staff's failings. Many of the young player's natural instincts will kick in and they won't be thinking quite so much.

The coach has to give them something to believe in, going out there and choking away winning opportunities out of your own fear isnt going to install confidence in your players...

Couldn't have said it better myself. Though I think Herm might've turned the corner to some degree by allowing the offensive change. Especially since that was a change to a philosophy that goes against his own offensive ideas.

[blueballs]

Gun's plan: go trash talk Rivers
and it has worked fairly well

[StcChief]

Gun's plan: go trash talk Rivers
and it has worked fairly wellwithout a pass rush or blitz we're screwed

[Micjones]

This should be a interesting offseason...

Absolutely.

I think it'll be more interesting than it should be though.
They've really screwed the pooch by not evaluating Taylor and Richardson more than they have.

We should be heading into the off-season with fewer questions personnel-wise. Where that's possible. I think they could've made some real decisions about some of these players if they had gotten them on the field.

[Deberg_1990]

I agree. Would that denver game have turned out different if Bradley where there? It seems like everytime the Chiefs are competitive, Bradley is out there making plays

IM guessing hes the only other guy besides Bowe and TG that is able to get seperation and get open consistently??

Having 3 legit recieving options will make any offense hum.

[Reerun_KC]

IM guessing hes the only other guy besides Bowe and TG that is able to get seperation and get open consistently??

Having 3 legit recieving options will make any offense hum.

If that is the Case, then how come the fade is the primary pass play in the @ goal situations and TG isnt?

Its because the fade is a safe play that keeps the risk of a TO down...

[Deberg_1990]

If that is the Case, then how come the fade is the primary pass play in the @ goal situations and TG isnt?

Its because the fade is a safe play that keeps the risk of a TO down...


You know why we are not a good red zone team?

Because we cant run the ball effectively in the redzone and goal line situations.

[Reerun_KC]

You know why we are not a good red zone team?

Because we cant run the ball effectively in the redzone and goal line situations.

Agree 100%....

Maybe we need some good old fashing R2P2 in the redzone. Line up and play some Hermieball!

[DaneMcCloud]

Sadly this OL, just like the DL are Herms line and mostly his players. That scares the living shit out of me as a Chiefs fan...

So, you consider McIntosh, Jones and Niswanger "Herm's players", even though Peterson signed them?

And I guess you have a problem with Dorsey, Tyler, McBride and Johnston, even though they're all first and second year players?

That doesn't make any sense.

[EyePod]

Gun's plan: go trash talk Rivers
and it has worked fairly well

Rivers is a little bitch. Really.

[Reerun_KC]

So, you consider McIntosh, Jones and Niswanger "Herm's players", even though Peterson signed them?

Yes I do sadly, Herm had to sign off or agree on the idea, why would Herm want those players or even play them if he didnt agree on the signings?

And I guess you have a problem with Dorsey, Tyler, McBride and Johnston, even though they're all first and second year players?

That doesn't make any sense.

I have a problem that they all have only one technique, that is bull rushing. I feel for them, they havent had the chance to develop and will lack development until we get coaching that can teach a minor spin move...

[EyePod]

Yes I do sadly, Herm had to sign off or agree on the idea, why would Herm want those players or even play them if he didnt agree on the signings?



I have a problem that they all have only one technique, that is bull rushing. I feel for them, they havent had the chance to develop and will lack development until we get coaching that can teach a minor spin move...

It sucks cause Tank is getting by on pure strength right now. Our DL coaching is just crappy. Dorsey should be amazing, but he can't be because he lacks the coaching. I hope we shake things up on the defensive side of the ball coaching wise.

[DaneMcCloud]

I think it'll be more interesting than it should be though.
They've really screwed the pooch by not evaluating Taylor and Richardson more than they have.


How so?

Both were sixth round draft choices; not number one's.

Taylor has played well beyond his draft selection. Richardson is apparently living up to his scouting report.

I swear, half the active members of this forum think that a 6th rounder should start immediately and play like a 5 year veteran.

[Reerun_KC]

How so?

Both were sixth round draft choices; not number one's.

Taylor has played well beyond his draft selection. Richardson is apparently living up to his scouting report.

I swear, half the active members of this forum think that a 6th rounder should start immediately and play like a 5 year veteran.

Not really Dane, We just arent ready to suck everyone off and say that Herm is building and developing a superbowl team...

Some have excuses, some look at it objectively and others just down right swallow everything they see...

[Reerun_KC]

How so?

Both were sixth round draft choices; not number one's.

Taylor has played well beyond his draft selection. Richardson is apparently living up to his scouting report.

I swear, half the active members of this forum think that a 6th rounder should start immediately and play like a 5 year veteran.

Hell our #1 is playing like a 6th round pick.. He was supposed to be an immediate impact player... But since he hasnt made much of an impact, people are starting with the 2-3 year development mantra to make themselves feel better about the fact that our D has only 6 sacks on the year and that our DL couldnt pressure a prosititute into a 3$ hummer....

[DaneMcCloud]

Yes I do sadly, Herm had to sign off or agree on the idea, why would Herm want those players or even play them if he didnt agree on the signings?

You really don't get it, do you? PETERSON signed them. PETERSON thought he could get one more year "out of the old guys". PETERSON was responsible for the personnel.

Not Herm.

I have a problem that they all have only one technique, that is bull rushing. I feel for them, they havent had the chance to develop and will lack development until we get coaching that can teach a minor spin move...

So you're telling me that guys like Dorsey and Tyler, who've played organized football their entire lives and were NFL draft choices (Dorsey #5 overall and considered the best player in the 2008 draft) never learned a "spin" move? At any point during their high school or college career?

Dude, I think you're smokin' crack.

ROFL

[DaneMcCloud]

Not really Dane, We just arent ready to suck everyone off and say that Herm is building and developing a superbowl team...

Some have excuses, some look at it objectively and others just down right swallow everything they see...

So, you FINALLY admit that you have unreasonable expectations and that essentially, you're a moron when it comes to evaluating football players?

Thanks. I've been waiting for your confirmation.

[Reerun_KC]

You really don't get it, do you? PETERSON signed them. PETERSON thought he could get one more year "out of the old guys". PETERSON was responsible for the personnel.

Not Herm.



So you're telling me that guys like Dorsey and Tyler, who've played organized football their entire lives and were NFL draft choices (Dorsey #5 overall and considered the best player in the 2008 draft) never learned a "spin" move? At any point during their high school or college career?

Dude, I think you're smokin' crack.

ROFL

So now Dorsey was the best player in the draft, yet cant get pressure on a twinkie? Needs time to develop...

When was the last time you seen Dorsey, spin around a o-linemen and actually force the QB to make a quick throw or take a sack?

Crack? Nah, I avoid drugs Dane, not good for the career plus, I dont have the $$$ you do, so I chose not to spend that extra cash on drugs...

Now I do enjoy a good cold beer or a glass of bourbon...

[Reerun_KC]

So, you FINALLY admit that you have unreasonable expectations and that essentially, you're a moron when it comes to evaluating football players?

Thanks. I've been waiting for your confirmation.

Whom did you work for to gain your football evaluation skills? Have people sought out your services on an NFL level?

[DaneMcCloud]

So now Dorsey was the best player in the draft, yet cant get pressure on a twinkie? Needs time to develop...

When was the last time you seen Dorsey, spin around a o-linemen and actually force the QB to make a quick throw or take a sack?

Crack? Nah, I avoid drugs Dane, not good for the career plus, I dont have the $$$ you do, so I chose not to spend that extra cash on drugs...

Now I do enjoy a good cold beer or a glass of bourbon...

Are you denying the fact that pre-draft, Dorsey was considered the best player in the draft?

I'm sure you considered Mario Williams a bust after year one as well?

[Micjones]

How so?

Both were sixth round draft choices; not number one's.

I must've missed the memo that said that only #1 draft picks play in the NFL.

Taylor has played well beyond his draft selection.

Which is every reason why he should've been on the field more often so that he could be evaluated.

I swear, half the active members of this forum think that a 6th rounder should start immediately and play like a 5 year veteran.

The other half struggle with reading comprehension.

I never expected either of them to start, but to say that the staff couldn't have gotten on the field... Well... that's just crazy talk. We need to determine what we have in them to see if they're projects, good depth, or players who can seriously contribute in '09. That way it makes the decision-making regarding those two positions simpler come the off-season.

[Buck]

The first year I was here on this board, both of our teams were playoff caliber teams, and it was fun to trash talk.

Now we are both garbage, and its just not as fun.

[DaneMcCloud]

Whom did you work for to gain your football evaluation skills? Have people sought out your services on an NFL level?

Well for one thing, I don't expect a 6th round lineman to be an immediate contributor, regardless of position.

[Reerun_KC]

Actually, I didnt have unreasonable expectations when it came to this team and Herm... We are about where I thought we would be, hanging around the 4-12 mark, trying to rebuild to save his career and job, watching the fan base dwindle.

When Herm was hired, my expectations died. Now I just watch and wish we could build and be a real NFL team... Someday we will have a GM and HC that can do that for us.

Herm cannot and will not build a superbowl team, he doesnt have the evaluation skills to fix what is broken, unless it is the secondary...

[Reerun_KC]

Are you denying the fact that pre-draft, Dorsey was considered the best player in the draft?

I'm sure you considered Mario Williams a bust after year one as well?

Nope not denying that.. He was the Best DL in the draft according to the rankings and grades.... He was supposed to be an immediate impact player right?

[Micjones]

Well for one thing, I don't expect a 6th round lineman to be an immediate contributor, regardless of position.

Neither did I.

But why on Earth wouldn't that 6th Round lineman see the field in a year where we have no aspirations of a playoff berth or division title? A year where we should be evaluating players to determine the course for next season?

Don't worry...I'll wait.

[Brock]

Probably not even close to being ready to play. I'd guess that's why.

[Reerun_KC]

Well for one thing, I don't expect a 6th round lineman to be an immediate contributor, regardless of position.

Me either so whats your point....

[Micjones]

Probably not even close to being ready to play. I'd guess that's why.

I think a lot of these young guys who have seen the field are in the same boat.

[Reerun_KC]

You really don't get it, do you? PETERSON signed them. PETERSON thought he could get one more year "out of the old guys". PETERSON was responsible for the personnel.

Not Herm.


So after 3 years we cant find replacements? Draft, FA or Walmart?

I know, I know, this is Herms first year managing the team, but for the love of God, if you have a talent defict at certian places, why would you not address that and try to correct it, instead of putting your faith in players like McInsuck?

Just a thought?

[DaneMcCloud]

I must've missed the memo that said that only #1 draft picks play in the NFL.

Why don't you go ahead and tell us which rookie 6th round picks are starting in the NFL right now.

Which is every reason why he should've been on the field more often so that he could be evaluated.

Are you referring to the coaching staff evaluations or your personal evaluations? As for Taylor, the Chiefs have played him a LT, RG and RT. Are you suggesting that they sit Brian Waters or Rudy Niswanger in order to see if he's a good fit?

Richardson's a project. Playing him right now makes no sense. He's obviously not ready (and may never be ready).


I never expected either of them to start, but to say that the staff couldn't have gotten on the field... Well... that's just crazy talk. We need to determine what we have in them to see if they're projects, good depth, or players who can seriously contribute in '09. That way it makes the decision-making regarding those two positions simpler come the off-season.

Again, who's the this "we" you refer to? The "Royal" we?

The Chiefs videotape and watch each practice. If they felt Richardson was ready to play, he'd play.

[Brock]

I think a lot of these young guys who have seen the field are in the same boat.

Such as?

[DaneMcCloud]

So after 3 years we cant find replacements? Draft, FA or Walmart?

I know, I know, this is Herms first year managing the team, but for the love of God, if you have a talent defict at certian places, why would you not address that and try to correct it, instead of putting your faith in players like McInsuck?

Just a thought?

Uh, the Chiefs tried to find replacements under Vermeil. The problem was, they all sucked.

Samson, Svitek, Williams, Black, Stallings.

If any of those guys had panned out, the Chiefs wouldn't be in this position.

But, I guess that's all Herm Edwards fault, right?

[Reerun_KC]

The Chiefs videotape and watch each practice. If they felt Richardson was ready to play, he'd play.

Until Carl is gone and we have replaced this 3 ring circus with a NFL coaching staff, we cant ever expect a solid evaluation....

[Reerun_KC]

Uh, the Chiefs tried to find replacements under Vermeil. The problem was, they all sucked.

Samson, Svitek, Williams, Black, Stallings.

If any of those guys had panned out, the Chiefs wouldn't be in this position.

But, I guess that's all Herm Edwards fault, right?

Yep because 3 years later you cant sit here and blame the previous staff.. We have had 3 offseasons and drafts to cut our losses and retool the OL...

How long are we going to hold on to the Blame DV excuse? You can totally rebuild a team in less than 3 years in the NFL now days. Teams are doing it all the time...

[DaneMcCloud]

Until Carl is gone and we have replaced this 3 ring circus with a NFL coaching staff, we cant ever expect a solid evaluation....

Yeah, because the Chiefs missed on Flowers, Carr, Leggett, Albert, Thigpen, Charles, Bradley, Bowe and Page, just to name a few.

:rolleyes:

Keep 'em coming, Reerun.

It's like shooting fish in a barrel.

[DaneMcCloud]

Yep because 3 years later you cant sit here and blame the previous staff.. We have had 3 offseasons and drafts to cut our losses and retool the OL...


So, you're implying that the Chiefs should have drafted offensive lineman only in 2006 and 2007, because they somehow knew that Roaf and Shields would retire?

Even though they had already drafted the guys I listed under Vermeil?

WTF?

[Reerun_KC]

Yeah, because the Chiefs missed on Flowers, Carr, Leggett, Albert, Thigpen, Charles, Bradley, Bowe and Page, just to name a few.

:rolleyes:

Keep 'em coming, Reerun.

It's like shooting fish in a barrel.

Fair enough, I raise you a Nap Harris, McIntosh, Donnie Edwards, Brodie Croyle, Damon Huard, Demerio Williams, Jeff Webb, Devard Darling, Herm Edwards, Dick Curl...

You keep shooting Tex and we will keep reloading your barrel...

:D

[Reerun_KC]

So, you're implying that the Chiefs should have drafted offensive lineman only in 2006 and 2007, because they somehow knew that Roaf and Shields would retire?

Even though they had already drafted the guys I listed under Vermeil?

WTF?

No never said that the should spend the whole draft of 2006 and 2007 on OL, IF I said that, and in those words, please quote it for me...

So we werent allowed to replace DV's picks with picks or FA that were better suited for Herm? Is that what your telling me? McInitosh was signed in 2006 right? He was signed by Carl and Herm if I remember correctly...

[DaneMcCloud]

Fair enough, I raise you a Nap Harris, McIntosh, Donnie Edwards, Brodie Croyle, Damon Huard, Demerio Williams, Jeff Webb, Devard Darling, Herm Edwards, Dick Curl...

You keep shooting Tex and we will keep reloading your barrel...

:D

Harris, Edwards and Huard were all Peterson.

Croyle was a third rounder who couldn't stay healthy. That's why he was a third rounder, not a first rounder.

Webb was a 6th. Are you seriously going to complain about a 6th round choice?

Darling has been what I thought he'd be: The fourth receiver, just as he was in Baltimore. But the Bradley signing has more than made up for that decision.

[Reerun_KC]

Harris, Edwards and Huard were all Peterson.

Croyle was a third rounder who couldn't stay healthy. That's why he was a third rounder, not a first rounder.

Webb was a 6th. Are you seriously going to complain about a 6th round choice?

Darling has been what I thought he'd be: The fourth receiver, just as he was in Baltimore. But the Bradley signing has more than made up for that decision.

Then what the freak good is Herm for than anyways? Basically if Peterson did all that, Herm proved to the fans that he has zero spine to stand up for himself....

[chiefzilla1501]

Neither did I.

But why on Earth wouldn't that 6th Round lineman see the field in a year where we have no aspirations of a playoff berth or division title? A year where we should be evaluating players to determine the course for next season?

Don't worry...I'll wait.

Probably because we've already killed two of our QBs. As bad as McIntosh has been, he's done nothing over the past few games that would make me fear for Thigpen's life.

[DaneMcCloud]

No never said that the should spend the whole draft of 2006 and 2007 on OL, IF I said that, and in those words, please quote it for me...

So we werent allowed to replace DV's picks with picks or FA that were better suited for Herm? Is that what your telling me? McInitosh was signed in 2006 right? He was signed by Carl and Herm if I remember correctly...

McGinatosh was signed in 2007.

Once again, Peterson thought he had enough talent on the offensive line and didn't address it.

The thing you seem to be missing throughout all of this is that the Chiefs under Peterson had absolutely no plan. None. Draft this guy, draft that guy, we need a d-lineman so draft that guy.

It wasn't until 2008, after Herm & Kuharich were in charge of personnel that the Chiefs actually had a plan and received an A+ draft rating from nearly everyone.

Can't you see the difference?

[DaneMcCloud]

Then what the freak good is Herm for than anyways? Basically if Peterson did all that, Herm proved to the fans that he has zero spine to stand up for himself....

Again, which is why he went to Clark Hunt this off-season and asked for personnel control.

Fortunately for us, his request was granted.

[Brock]

Jeff Webb. ROFL

[DaneMcCloud]

Neither did I.

But why on Earth wouldn't that 6th Round lineman see the field in a year where we have no aspirations of a playoff berth or division title? A year where we should be evaluating players to determine the course for next season?

Don't worry...I'll wait.

This:

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=5281954

Why don't you go ahead and tell us which rookie 6th round picks are starting in the NFL right now.

Are you referring to the coaching staff evaluations or your personal evaluations? As for Taylor, the Chiefs have played him a LT, RG and RT. Are you suggesting that they sit Brian Waters or Rudy Niswanger in order to see if he's a good fit?

Richardson's a project. Playing him right now makes no sense. He's obviously not ready (and may never be ready).

Again, who's the this "we" you refer to? The "Royal" we?

The Chiefs videotape and watch each practice. If they felt Richardson was ready to play, he'd play.

I've been waiting.

[chiefzilla1501]

Fair enough, I raise you a Nap Harris, McIntosh, Donnie Edwards, Brodie Croyle, Damon Huard, Demerio Williams, Jeff Webb, Devard Darling, Herm Edwards, Dick Curl...

You keep shooting Tex and we will keep reloading your barrel...

:D

Dude, you're talking about bottom-of-the-barrel free agents and late round draft picks. You'd be hard-pressed to find a team that can rebuild from the ground-up in three seasons primarily through the draft. We're the only team that would complain about a low-grade free agent or a 6th round pick "busting." That's how bad our situation has become--when we expect every single player in the draft to be awesome and get mad when they're not.

[Micjones]

Why don't you go ahead and tell us which rookie 6th round picks are starting in the NFL right now.

That, sir, is immaterial.

I never suggested that either of them start.
I said they should be getting valuable playing time.

This team is rebuilding. The Head Coach, himself, has said time without number that he will get his young players on the field. It's apparent to everyone close to this organization that the right side of the Offensive Line needs immediate upgrades. Tell me why, given that information, we haven't gotten them on the field more often?

Are you referring to the coaching staff evaluations or your personal evaluations? As for Taylor, the Chiefs have played him a LT, RG and RT. Are you suggesting that they sit Brian Waters or Rudy Niswanger in order to see if he's a good fit?

Absolutely not. But certainly he could play at Right Guard or Right Tackle.
Two positions where we have no real answers.

The Chiefs videotape and watch each practice. If they felt Richardson was ready to play, he'd play.

Because coaches always get it right. Players who are deserving always see the field.

Do you watch much of the NFL?

They obviously made an immense gaffe with the Croyle/Thigpen situation, but that's just an isolated incident, right?
:rolleyes:

[Brock]

Well, if the Chiefs ever get 30 or 40 points up on someone, I'd say go for it, put them in.

[chiefzilla1501]

They didn't make a gaffe with the Croyle/Thigpen situation. First, who's to say Croyle wouldn't have produced if healthy. Second, recall that the Chiefs completely changed their offense around to fit Thigpen's strengths and it was a gamble that worked. That had nothing to do with improper talent evaluation.

That, sir, is immaterial.

I never suggested that either of them start.
I said they should be getting valuable playing time.

This team is rebuilding. The Head Coach, himself, has said time without number that he will get his young players on the field. It's apparent to everyone close to this organization that the right side of the Offensive Line needs immediate upgrades. Tell me why, given that information, we haven't gotten them on the field more often?



Absolutely not. But certainly he could play at Right Guard or Right Tackle.
Two positions where we have no real answers.



Because coaches always get it right. Players who are deserving always see the field.

Do you watch much of the NFL?

They obviously made an immense gaff with the Croyle/Thigpen situation, but that's just an isolated incident, right?
:rolleyes:

[Micjones]

Well, if the Chiefs ever get 30 or 40 points up on someone, I'd say go for it, put them in.

Why exactly does that matter?
What are we playing for?

[chiefzilla1501]

Why exactly does that matter?
What are we playing for?

Our QB's life. And it's not like McIntosh has been playing full time. The Chiefs have played rotated Taylor in quite a bit at that position. It says a lot about what the staff thinks about Richardson that they would rather take Taylor away from his natural position at LT than start Richardson.

I never thought Richardson was that good. And obviously, the staff values Taylor, another young guy and a 6th round pick, ahead of him.

[Brock]

Why exactly does that matter?
What are we playing for?

Whether you like it or not, the team is trying to win games.

[Micjones]

They didn't make a gaffe with the Croyle/Thigpen situation.

The hell they didn't. They put all of their eggs in the basket of one football player who has had major injuries at every level he's ever played at.

First, who's to say Croyle wouldn't have produced if healthy.

History would suggest that he couldn't stay healthy.
Hell... A once over would tell you he wasn't going to.
He doesn't have an NFL body.

Second, recall that the Chiefs completely changed their offense around to fit Thigpen's strengths and it was a gamble that worked. That had nothing to do with improper talent evaluation.

They knew what offense he was proficient in before the season started.
And he walked into the starting job BEFORE the offense was ever changed.

[chiefzilla1501]

The hell they didn't. They put all of their eggs in the basket of one football player who has had major injuries at every level he's ever played at.



History would suggest that he couldn't stay healthy.
Hell... A once over would tell you he wasn't going to.
He doesn't have an NFL body.



They knew what offense he was proficient in before the season started.
And he walked into the starting job BEFORE the offense was ever changed.

Oh, from that end, yes the decision to rest the future on Croyle was dumb. But in terms of whether to start Croyle or Thigpen this season, the answer was clearly Croyle given that Thigpen hadn't proven otherwise. Then again, I can't say I'm too upset with how we used our first picks in the draft, which is where we probably would have found a replacement for Croyle.

[DaneMcCloud]

That, sir, is immaterial.

I never suggested that either of them start.
I said they should be getting valuable playing time.

Why? Why would you start or even play someone if they're not ready? Clearly, Richardson is struggling in practice. Why would you put him in the games?

Secondly, do YOU watch the games? I've seen Taylor lined up at left tackle, right guard and right tackle this year. Are you implying that the Chiefs aren't doing enough in trying to evaluate him? Personally, I believe that Taylor belongs at left guard. But Waters has that position locked down.

This team is rebuilding. The Head Coach, himself, has said time without number that he will get his young players on the field. It's apparent to everyone close to this organization that the right side of the Offensive Line needs immediate upgrades. Tell me why, given that information, we haven't gotten them on the field more often?

Richardson's not ready, Taylor's NOT a prototypical right tackle. I've said this a million times, prototypical right tackle is 6'5 - 6'6, 310-325. Taylor's 6'3, 295. He's NOT a road grader.


Do you watch much of the NFL?

Do you? It sure appears that you don't know jackshit about the NFL. I've had the NFL Package for 6 years and watch at least three games per Sunday.

But I'm sure you're going to tell us that every NFL team is starting rookie 6th round draft choices, right?


They obviously made an immense gaff with the Croyle/Thigpen situation, but that's just an isolated incident, right?
:rolleyes:

Immense "gaff"? The only gaffe that I see is trusting Croyle to stay healthy. No one can prove that Croyle wouldn't have been effective in this offense or under Chan Gailey. I was never a fan of Croyle due to his injury history but as you stated earlier, why not play the guy?

Furthermore, it would have been an "immense gaff" if that Chiefs didn't have a Tyler Thigpen on the roster.

Which they did.

[BigChiefFan]

According to the argument,...Seems like Herm bares zero responsibilty for the trash and gets all the glory for the gold(which looks to be fools gold on defense at this point).

Sorry, but he's had THREE YEARS, there's no getting around it.

McIntosh was a LONG-TERM contract, meaning Herm had to sign off on it or why on Earth would he continue to start him?

TURLEY was Hermie's, SHORT-TERM SOLUTION at RT-let's not soon forget that little gem.

33% winning percentage his entire tenure as HEAD COACH of the Chiefs.

Firmly hitched his wagon to CROYLE. Fail.

Very little progress, in fact, we have gone backwards on Defense, THREE YEARS LATER.

Where's the quality STARTERS that Herm has added through the draft? Bowe, Dorsey, Albert and Flowers(three of which, the jury is still out on). With HOW MANY PICKS?


Coached 40 something Games, before he realized the offense isn't working. Insisted conservative ball is the way to go, 40 games later. Not until INJURIES forced his hand, did he accept defeat and allow Gailey to change the offense. Still not buying it? Than please explain LJ's 400 plus carires in ONE SEASON-that, by definition, is CONSERVATIVE. Brick wall meet head.

Insists Gunther was the right man for the job, evidenced, not once, but TWICE. The first time in NY, he wanted Gunther to come coach on the "big stage." Obviously, he had faith in him, evidenced by keeping Gunther on board(no.2), to run the Tampa Two in KC. Gunther NEVER ran the Tampa Two prior to this. Square Peg meet round hole.

Insists on running the Tampa Two. An antiquated, out-dated defense. I will grant you, that we do throw some other wrinkles in and it's not strictly T2.

Throws players under the bus.

Never accepts responsibilty, but seeks all the glory.

Crumby game-day coach. His clock mgmt. skills are some of the worst around.



Has Pro Bowlers insist trades on his watch.



I think you get the idea.

[Micjones]

Our QB's life. And it's not like McIntosh has been playing full time. The Chiefs have played rotated Taylor in quite a bit at that position. It says a lot about what the staff thinks about Richardson that they would rather take Taylor away from his natural position at LT than start Richardson.

Taylor's played quite well so why hasn't he been given the chance to start at Right Tackle?

I never thought Richardson was that good. And obviously, the staff values Taylor, another young guy and a 6th round pick, ahead of him.

He may not be good enough to play Right Tackle, but I think his skill set might serve him well at Right Guard.

[Reerun_KC]

According to the argument,...Seems like Herm bares zero responsibilty for the trash and gets all the glory for the gold(which looks to be fools gold on defense at this point).

Sorry, but he's had THREE YEARS, there's no getting around it.

McIntosh was a LONG-TERM contract, meaning Herm had to sign off on it or why on Earth would he continue to start him?

TURLEY was Hermie's, SHORT-TERM SOLUTION at RT-let's not soon forget that little gem.

33% winning percentage his entire tenure as HEAD COACH of the Chiefs.

Firmly hitched his wagon to CROYLE. Fail.

Very little progress, in fact, we have gone backwards on Defense, THREE YEARS LATER.

Where's the quality STARTERS that Herm has added through the draft? Bowe, Dorsey, Albert and Flowers(three of which, the jury is still out on). With HOW MANY PICKS?


Coached 40 something Games, before he realized the offense isn't working. Insisted conservative ball is the way to go, 40 games later. Not until INJURIES forced his hand, did he accept defeat and allow Gailey to change the offense. Still not buying it? Than please explain LJ's 400 plus carires in ONE SEASON-that, by definition, is CONSERVATIVE. Brick wall meet head.

Insists Gunther was the right man for the job, evidenced, not once, but TWICE. The first time in NY, he wanted Gunther to come coach on the "big stage." Obviously, he had faith in him, evidenced by keeping Gunther on board(no.2), to run the Tampa Two in KC. Gunther NEVER ran the Tampa Two prior to this. Square Peg meet round hole.

Insists on running the Tampa Two. An antiquated, out-dated defense. I will grant you, that we do throw some other wrinkles in and it's not strictly T2.

Throws players under the bus.

Never accepts responsibilty, but seeks all the glory.

Crumby game-day coach. His clock mgmt. skills are some of the worst around.



Has Pro Bowlers insist trades on his watch.



I think you get the idea.

But but but, you cant expect 6th round picks to play like 5 year vets...

[DaneMcCloud]

But but but, you cant expect 6th round picks to play like 5 year vets...

Uh, go ahead and prove the opposite, Champ.

[DaneMcCloud]

Taylor's played quite well so why hasn't he been given the chance to start at Right Tackle?

Well gee, Mic. From someone that actually WATCHES the NFL, I'd say it's because he doesn't have the prototypical size you'd want from a right tackle. He's not 6'5-6'6, 310-325 pounds and he's not a road grader.

But what would I know? I mean, I actually WATCH the games.

He may not be good enough to play Right Tackle, but I think his skill set might serve him well at Right Guard.

It has nothing to do with "good enough" and everything to do with size and position. The right side of the offensive line is the power side. Taylor's more of a left side "finesse" guy.

But again, I actually watch the games and understand positional analysis, read scouting reports and have several friends in both the college and pro coaching ranks.

[Micjones]

Why? Why would you start or even play someone if they're not ready? Clearly, Richardson is struggling in practice. Why would you put him in the games?

I have a hard time believing that Richardson is completely and utterly incapable of ever taking the field to make his way onto some game tape.

Secondly, do YOU watch the games? I've seen Taylor lined up at left tackle, right guard and right tackle this year. Are you implying that the Chiefs aren't doing enough in trying to evaluate him? Personally, I believe that Taylor belongs at left guard. But Waters has that position locked down.

Most of Taylor's playing time has come in situations where a starting Offensive Lineman went down.

Richardson's not ready, Taylor's NOT a prototypical right tackle. I've said this a million times, prototypical right tackle is 6'5 - 6'6, 310-325. Taylor's 6'3, 295. He's NOT a road grader.

He's definitely not a road grader. He's probably 20 pounds underweight to really be the kind of Right Tackle we need him to be.

So play him at Right Guard.

Do you? It sure appears that you don't know jackshit about the NFL. I've had the NFL Package for 6 years and watch at least three games per Sunday.

You know the NFL because you have the Sunday Ticket?
ROFL

You post everyday and that certainly hasn't helped your commentary any.

But I'm sure you're going to tell us that every NFL team is starting rookie 6th round draft choices, right?

I've said three times that I never expected either of them to start.
Seriously...

Immense "gaff"? The only gaffe that I see is trusting Croyle to stay healthy.

And certainly his injury history wouldn't have been a sufficient red flag...
:rolleyes:

No one can prove that Croyle wouldn't have been effective in this offense or under Chan Gailey.

Hell, he wasn't that effective in the previous system.

[Cornstock]

You know I hope your right Mic, This goes against EVERYTHING our HC believes in... I think he will be hard pressed to continue this "Gimmick Circus" if he can some how manage to get some better OL on the right side... This "Gimmick Circus" isnt helping our defense....

You cant fix stupid....
The gimmick circus may not be consistently helping our defense(from the perspective that they hold onto the ball, put together drives, and give the defense a rest) but ive seen glimmers this week and last with 7 and 9 minutes drives in the second half. I think with some offensive line help, those could become the norm. And then there is also the inherent threat of a spread offense to score at any time.

But the defense also needs some help. They cant allow the opposing offenses to put together those momentum-sucking drives where they move the ball right down the field, where the QB is never touched and looks like Peyton Manning. I believe that all starts at DE.

So that obviously spells out the teams needs, being O line and DE

[DaneMcCloud]

I have a hard time believing that Richardson is completely and utterly incapable of ever taking the field to make his way onto some game tape.

Really now, Mic? So you'd have us all believe that Herm Edwards has no problem playing Kevin Robinson, the other 6th round choice, Mike Cox & Maurice Leggett, both undrafted free agents, along with Thigpen, Charles, Cottam, Morgan, Johnston and Dorsey, but somehow, he's unwilling to play Richardson, even though he's ready?

What the fuck kind of logic is that?

Oh right, it's not logic. It's typical Chiefsplanet dumbassery.

Most of Taylor's playing time has come in situations where a starting Offensive Lineman went down.

Early in the season, yes. Lately no.

Do you watch the games, Mic?

He's definitely not a road grader. He's probably 20 pounds underweight to really be the kind of Right Tackle we need him to be.

So play him at Right Guard.

It's not only 20 pounds, Mic. It's height. And skill set. Taylor's best suited for left guard. He can play utility lineman until Waters retires.

You know the NFL because you have the Sunday Ticket?
ROFL

You post everyday and that certainly hasn't helped your commentary any. .

So this is how you want to play it, asshole? Fine. I'll be on every one of your "gaffs" like stink on shit.

Count on it.

Oh and while you're at it, go fuck yourself.

Moron.

[Chiefnj2]

Why? Why would you start or even play someone if they're not ready? Clearly, Richardson is struggling in practice. Why would you put him in the games?

.

You have no idea if Richardson is struggling or not. This is the same coaching staff that has made many, many, many errors in talent evaluations on the OL and DL.

[DaneMcCloud]

You have no idea if Richardson is struggling or not. This is the same coaching staff that has made many, many, many errors in talent evaluations on the OL and DL.

And this is the same coaching staff that is playing Cox, Charles, Leggett, Thigpen, Cottam, Morgan, Carr, Flowers, Albert and Robinson.

Furthermore, have you read Richardson's scouting report?

And why in the hell would you expect a 6th round tackle to make an immediate impact?

JFC. What a bunch of retards we have here today.

[DaneMcCloud]

Hey Mic,

Aren't you the same resident Chiefsplanet genius who told me that the Chiefs should be playing Huard instead of Thigpen?

You wanna brag about your football knowledge now, Motherfucker?

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5041720&postcount=31

<!-- message --> Quote:
<table width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> Originally Posted by Micjones http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=5041703#post5041703)
This looks all play into the hands of Brodie Croyle.
Herman Edwards refuses to allow Huard a shot to outplay him.
We'll all be begging for Croyle to come back as our starter once he's healthy.
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> What the **** is the point of playing Huard? Come on, Mic. Tell us.

Huard's a washed up, never was. Tyler Thigpen is young player who put the Chiefs in a position to score 4 times in his second start and scored twice.

Let him GROW. He played better this week than last week and my guess is that he only gets better.

Huard only gets hurt. And hurts the team.

Of course in typical Mic Jones fashion, you refused to respond.

Thanks, football Jesus!

['Hamas' Jenkins]

the gimmick argument is horseshit anyway. If it's working it's working. If NFL defenses figure it out, then okay we move on, but if it keeps working then it's what we keep running and imo it's not gimmick either way..

How does the fact that our yardage and scoring have dropped precipitously from the Tampa game (w/ the exception of Buffalo) indicate that this is anything but a gimmick.

We just scored 23 offensive points in two games against two horrible defenses.

[DaneMcCloud]

How does the fact that our yardage and scoring have dropped precipitously from the Tampa game (w/ the exception of Buffalo) indicate that this is anything but a gimmick.

We just scored 23 offensive points in two games against two horrible defenses.

It's because Barry Richardson isn't on the field

[Brock]

How does the fact that our yardage and scoring have dropped precipitously from the Tampa game (w/ the exception of Buffalo) indicate that this is anything but a gimmick.

We just scored 23 offensive points in two games against two horrible defenses.

Lack of execution.

[Chiefnj2]

And this is the same coaching staff that is playing Cox, Charles, Leggett, Thigpen, Cottam, Morgan, Carr, Flowers, Albert and Robinson.

Furthermore, have you read Richardson's scouting report?

And why in the hell would you expect a 6th round tackle to make an immediate impact?

JFC. What a bunch of retards we have here today.

Is it the same staff that thought McIntosh would be a good LT? Same staff that thought Boone would be a good DE? Same staff that thought McIntosh, Terry and Turley could hold down the right side of the line? Same staff that thought Hali could play RDE? Nah, they wouldn't make a mistake.

[DaneMcCloud]

Is it the same staff that thought McIntosh would be a good LT? Same staff that thought Boone would be a good DE? Same staff that thought McIntosh, Terry and Turley could hold down the right side of the line? Same staff that thought Hali could play RDE? Nah, they wouldn't make a mistake.

JFC. Are you serious?

So basically what you're saying is that the Chiefs coaching staff is conspiring to keep Richardson on the bench while playing 16 other rookies?

Are you a fucking moron or do you just play one on Chiefsplanet?

[EyePod]

According to the argument,...Seems like Herm bares zero responsibilty for the trash and gets all the glory for the gold(which looks to be fools gold on defense at this point).

Sorry, but he's had THREE YEARS, there's no getting around it.

McIntosh was a LONG-TERM contract, meaning Herm had to sign off on it or why on Earth would he continue to start him?

TURLEY was Hermie's, SHORT-TERM SOLUTION at RT-let's not soon forget that little gem.

33% winning percentage his entire tenure as HEAD COACH of the Chiefs.

Firmly hitched his wagon to CROYLE. Fail.

Very little progress, in fact, we have gone backwards on Defense, THREE YEARS LATER.

Where's the quality STARTERS that Herm has added through the draft? Bowe, Dorsey, Albert and Flowers(three of which, the jury is still out on). With HOW MANY PICKS?


Coached 40 something Games, before he realized the offense isn't working. Insisted conservative ball is the way to go, 40 games later. Not until INJURIES forced his hand, did he accept defeat and allow Gailey to change the offense. Still not buying it? Than please explain LJ's 400 plus carires in ONE SEASON-that, by definition, is CONSERVATIVE. Brick wall meet head.

Insists Gunther was the right man for the job, evidenced, not once, but TWICE. The first time in NY, he wanted Gunther to come coach on the "big stage." Obviously, he had faith in him, evidenced by keeping Gunther on board(no.2), to run the Tampa Two in KC. Gunther NEVER ran the Tampa Two prior to this. Square Peg meet round hole.

Insists on running the Tampa Two. An antiquated, out-dated defense. I will grant you, that we do throw some other wrinkles in and it's not strictly T2.

Throws players under the bus.

Never accepts responsibilty, but seeks all the glory.

Crumby game-day coach. His clock mgmt. skills are some of the worst around.



Has Pro Bowlers insist trades on his watch.



I think you get the idea.

I'm getting you an "I <3 Herm" T-shirt for Christmas!

[EyePod]

The gimmick circus may not be consistently helping our defense(from the perspective that they hold onto the ball, put together drives, and give the defense a rest) but ive seen glimmers this week and last with 7 and 9 minutes drives in the second half. I think with some offensive line help, those could become the norm. And then there is also the inherent threat of a spread offense to score at any time.

But the defense also needs some help. They cant allow the opposing offenses to put together those momentum-sucking drives where they move the ball right down the field, where the QB is never touched and looks like Peyton Manning. I believe that all starts at DE.

So that obviously spells out the teams needs, being O line and DE

Fuckin A man! We made Trent Edwards look good. Really. That's how bad our defense is. He had a fucking 75% completion rate! WTF?? Our defense does not work right now, and we should try something else instead of doing the same god damned thing every week.

[EyePod]

How does the fact that our yardage and scoring have dropped precipitously from the Tampa game (w/ the exception of Buffalo) indicate that this is anything but a gimmick.

We just scored 23 offensive points in two games against two horrible defenses.

Two Words.

Mark Bradley. We're missing a #2 receiver. I know he's a #3 for any other team (and that's giving him more credit than he's due), but he's much, much better than anything else we've got. You can really see how much our offense misses him right now. They were able to leave Franklin and Webb basically uncovered (I know I'm exaggerating), and cover the shit out of Tony and Bowe, and it worked perfectly.

Franklin and Webb are toolbags.

[EyePod]

Lack of execution.

But we'll look at the tapes this week....

[chagrin]

the gimmick argument is horseshit anyway. If it's working it's working. If NFL defenses figure it out, then okay we move on, but if it keeps working then it's what we keep running and imo it's not gimmick either way..

who says it's working...are we laying down points above the "gimmick" level? Are we winning based on the offense?

No, and no, douche nozzle

[Micjones]

Why? Why would you start or even play someone if they're not ready? Clearly, Richardson is struggling in practice. Why would you put him in the games?

I find it hard to believe he's completely incapable of making his way onto the field, in a limited capacity, to find his way onto some game tape.

Secondly, do YOU watch the games? I've seen Taylor lined up at left tackle, right guard and right tackle this year. Are you implying that the Chiefs aren't doing enough in trying to evaluate him? Personally, I believe that Taylor belongs at left guard. But Waters has that position locked down.

Taylor's been used as a stop-gap when injuries have arisen.
That's where most of his playing time has come from.

Taylor's NOT a prototypical right tackle. I've said this a million times, prototypical right tackle is 6'5 - 6'6, 310-325. Taylor's 6'3, 295. He's NOT a road grader.

He's definitely not a road grader. He's probably 10-20 pounds shy of where you want your Right Tackle to be.

But it's not as though there aren't unconventional RT's playing all over the league.

Mark Tauscher, Willie Colon, Eric Winston, Damien Woody, Jonas Jennings, Sean Locklear. None of them are prototypical RT's (according to the parameters you outlined earlier).

Do you? It sure appears that you don't know jackshit about the NFL. I've had the NFL Package for 6 years and watch at least three games per Sunday.

Having the Sunday ticket makes you a knowledgeable fan of the NFL?
ROFL

You post regularly and that hasn't helped your commentary any.

But I'm sure you're going to tell us that every NFL team is starting rookie 6th round draft choices, right?

I never suggested that either of them start.
Starting and getting valuable playing time are two different things.

Immense "gaff"? The only gaffe that I see is trusting Croyle to stay healthy.

One that could've been avoided.
The kid's had major injuries at every level of football he's ever played.

No one can prove that Croyle wouldn't have been effective in this offense or under Chan Gailey.

Croyle wasn't that effective in the old offensive system.

[chiefzilla1501]

Taylor has played quite a few snaps at right tackle and it is not because McIntosh has been injured. McIntosh still sees most of the snaps, but Taylor has been getting reps there.

I find it hard to believe he's completely incapable of making his way onto the field, in a limited capacity, to find his way onto some game tape.



Taylor's been used as a stop-gap when injuries have arisen.
That's where most of his playing time has come from.



He's definitely not a road grader. He's probably 10-20 pounds shy of where you want your Right Tackle to be.

But it's not as though there aren't unconventional RT's playing all over the league.

Mark Tauscher, Willie Colon, Eric Winston, Damien Woody, Jonas Jennings, Sean Locklear. None of them are prototypical RT's (according to the parameters you outlined earlier).



Having the Sunday ticket makes you a knowledgeable fan of the NFL?
ROFL

You post regularly and that hasn't helped your commentary any.



I never suggested that either of them start.
Starting and getting valuable playing time are two different things.



One that could've been avoided.
The kid's had major injuries at every level of football he's ever played.



Croyle wasn't that effective in the old offensive system.

[chagrin]

I think everyone is taking an unfair shot at this offense and the "spread" or "pistol". Given the situation, I think this is as good as can be hoped for.

Now, after a full off-season of planning and schemeing and learning, it will be interesting to see what we do next year.

I agree with most of what you're saying; it was thrown together for not other reason than to make the season not a total waste, which it basically is anyway. I said it before and I will say it again, I can understand why Tyler Thigpen is exciting people, we were at rock bottom and Chan threw together a gimmicky scheme to salvage what he could (has it done anything to help us win games? uhhh, not really, no.) but call the argument horseshit after week 8 of next season when it's not being used at all, anymore and IF Thigpen is leading the team to wins and real hope.

[DaneMcCloud]

I find it hard to believe he's completely incapable of making his way onto the field, in a limited capacity, to find his way onto some game tape.

Mic, the Chiefs coaches are playing everyone that can play. EVERYONE. I don't see any biases in the personnel decision. Hell, Jackie freaking Battle was on the field this past weekend. Robinson was playing as soon as he was off the PUP.

No, the reason that Richardson isn't on the field is simple: He's not ready.

Period. End of story. Nada.

[Micjones]

It says a lot about what the staff thinks about Richardson that they would rather take Taylor away from his natural position at LT than start Richardson.

Taylor's natural position is Right Tackle.
His first 3 years at TCU were played on the right side.

[Hammock Parties]

Unless I'm mistaken, I started all the talk of the offense being a "gimmick."

I've recanted on that. I think it's legit, long-term, as long as it has elements of a traditional offense blended in. I think Thigpen holds it back, though.

[Micjones]

Mic, the Chiefs coaches are playing everyone that can play. EVERYONE. I don't see any biases in the personnel decision.

Which would explain why Devard Darling got the start in place of Bradley?

Hell, Jackie freaking Battle was on the field this past weekend.

And if memory serves he came into the game AFTER Charles limped off the field.

Robinson was playing as soon as he was off the PUP.

At a time where Johnson was suspended and we were having other injuries in the backfield. They gave him the KR/PR duties to replace Savage whose playing time was being increased (due to injury).

No, the reason that Richardson isn't on the field is simple: He's not ready.

What was the knock on Richardson coming out of college?

[DaneMcCloud]

Which would explain why Devard Darling got the start in place of Bradley?

Bradley wasn't signed and ready to play until after the bye week. I was at the Jets game in NY and saw Bradley play firsthand. I don't understand your reasoning.

Are you talking about this past week, when Bradley was injured? WTF?

And if memory serves he came into the game AFTER Charles limped off the field.

So? It doesn't matter why. It just further proves that Herm is willing to play anyone that is ready to play. Period.

At a time where Johnson was suspended and we were having other injuries in the backfield. They gave him the KR/PR duties to replace Savage whose playing time was being increased (due to injury).

What?

Kevin Robinson was drafted in the 6th round specifically to be a kick returner. THAT was the plan all along. Savage was waived and put on the practice squad a week after Robinson's debut.

BTW, Robinson's been pretty good.

What was the knock on Richardson coming out of college?

The main knock was that he lacked motivation and fire. He's got the prototypical body and strength, but it seems as if he doesn't "love the game".

Again, he was a sixth round pick. Give him time to mature. There's no reason to force him onto the field.

[DaneMcCloud]

Taylor's natural position is Right Tackle.
His first 3 years at TCU were played on the right side.

The key being "at TCU".

There are hundreds of guys who play college right tackle each and every year at a high level. That does not mean that their skills and body automatically translates to the NFL.

[Micjones]

Bradley wasn't signed and ready to play until after the bye week. I was at the Jets game in NY and saw Bradley play firsthand. I don't understand your reasoning.

Are you talking about this past week, when Bradley was injured? WTF?

I'm referring to last Sunday's game at Invesco.
If there are no politics involved, please explain for me why Devard Darling got the start?

What?

Kevin Robinson was drafted in the 6th round specifically to be a kick returner. THAT was the plan all along. Savage was waived and put on the practice squad a week after Robinson's debut.

BTW, Robinson's been pretty good.[/quote]

That doesn't change the fact that injuries played a role in the switch.
Savage saw the most action he'd seen all year offensively.

I make no argument about why Robinson was drafted though.

Again, he was a sixth round pick. Give him time to mature. There's no reason to force him onto the field.

Kevin Robinson was a 6th Round pick too, no?

[Micjones]

The key being "at TCU".

There are hundreds of guys who play college right tackle each and every year at a high level. That does not mean that their skills and body automatically translates to the NFL.

Certainly.
I was just saying that's the position where he played most in college.
So if anything... I think that's his more natural position.

If he's a better fit at LT... So be it.

[chiefzilla1501]

But the Chiefs willingly replaced guys like Darling, Sams, Savage, and Novak because they were not performing well, in addition to Napoleon Harris, Alfonso Boone, and Ron Edwards. Yes, maybe the right decision wasn't made the first time, but the right decision was made eventually and these were moves that were made without any public pressure, without delay, and without injury as a reason.

I agree with Dane on this one. The Chiefs have been very good about living up to their promise of playing their youth. And again, they are playing a young guy at RT AHEAD of Barry Richardson. Given that Taylor is seeing time and Richardson is not, that suggests that the Chiefs don't think very highly of Richardson and it has nothing to do with his age. If age and inexperience at the position was a genuine concern, there is no reason why they'd give Taylor reps at RT.

Which would explain why Devard Darling got the start in place of Bradley?



And if memory serves he came into the game AFTER Charles limped off the field.



At a time where Johnson was suspended and we were having other injuries in the backfield. They gave him the KR/PR duties to replace Savage whose playing time was being increased (due to injury).



What was the knock on Richardson coming out of college?

[Mecca]

The OL is different from the other positions before the season they harped constantly that it was bad last year because they had no "continuity" with a bunch of different guys playing and playing different positions.

They seem to think the same 5 guys playing together is more important than anything....

[EyePod]

I'm referring to last Sunday's game at Invesco.
If there are no politics involved, please explain for me why Devard Darling got the start?



BTW, Robinson's been pretty good.

That doesn't change the fact that injuries played a role in the switch.
Savage saw the most action he'd seen all year offensively.

I make no argument about why Robinson was drafted though.



Kevin Robinson was a 6th Round pick too, no?[/quote]

Kevin Robinson was a 6th rounder. I think we had 2 in each of the last few rounds. We had a BUTTLOAD of picks....

[DaneMcCloud]

I'm referring to last Sunday's game at Invesco.
If there are no politics involved, please explain for me why Devard Darling got the start?

Why do you think, Mic? Uh, because Bradley's injured and on the non-active list. Are you implying that Franklin or Webb should have been the starters? Both saw playing time and both dropped balls.

That doesn't change the fact that injuries played a role in the switch.
Savage saw the most action he'd seen all year offensively.

Again, what? Robinson was penciled in as the returner from the second he was drafted. Savage only saw duty because of injuries to Robinson, then Charles. After his performance as the starter and the return of Robinson, he was demoted to the practice squad.

Kevin Robinson was a 6th Round pick too, no?

Yes, as stated earlier. But clearly, he's ready to play and Richardson is not.

Occam's Razor, Mic, Occam's Razor.

[DaneMcCloud]

Certainly.
I was just saying that's the position where he played most in college.
So if anything... I think that's his more natural position.

If he's a better fit at LT... So be it.

For someone who's so willing to flip me shit about my NFL knowledge (which apparently is light-years ahead of yours), it doesn't matter WHERE Taylor played in college. It's about his best fit in the NFL.

Brad Smith played QB in college. Where does he play in the NFL?
Brian Waters was a TE in college. Where does he play in the NFL?
Josh Cribbs played QB in college. Where does he play in the NFL?

I could go on and on and on and on.

Players sometimes play different positions in the NFL than college due to strength, speed, agility and ability.

[Micjones]

Why do you think, Mic? Uh, because Bradley's injured and on the non-active list. Are you implying that Franklin or Webb should have been the starters? Both saw playing time and both dropped balls.

The underachieving Free Agent, brought in to be the Chiefs #2 Wide Receiver... You know...the one with 10 catches all season long got the start over two Receivers drafted by the organization. Nope, no politics involved there.

Again, what? Robinson was penciled in as the returner from the second he was drafted.

I said as much. No argument here.

Yes, as stated earlier. But clearly, he's ready to play and Richardson is not.

Occam's Razor, Mic, Occam's Razor.

Ah yes, "the simplest explanation is usually best."

I tend to agree.

Though I don't think that given prior personnel gaffes it's all that difficult to see other factors in play.

[Tribal Warfare]

For someone who's so willing to flip me shit about my NFL knowledge (which apparently is light-years ahead of yours), it doesn't matter WHERE Taylor played in college. It's about his best fit in the NFL.

Brad Smith played QB in college. Where does he play in the NFL?
Brian Waters was a TE in college. Where does he play in the NFL?
Josh Cribbs played QB in college. Where does he play in the NFL?

I could go on and on and on and on.

Players sometimes play different positions in the NFL than college due to strength, speed, agility and ability.

Don't forget Rod Smith he was the QB for Missouri Southern

[Micjones]

For someone who's so willing to flip me shit about my NFL knowledge (which apparently is light-years ahead of yours), it doesn't matter WHERE Taylor played in college. It's about his best fit in the NFL.

Put your scorecard away pal. I fully understand that.
In fact, I said as much in the very post you're responding too.

Brad Smith played QB in college. Where does he play in the NFL?
Brian Waters was a TE in college. Where does he play in the NFL?
Josh Cribbs played QB in college. Where does he play in the NFL?

Thank you Captain Obvious. Shall I add in a few dozen examples of my own?

[Cornstock]

****in A man! We made Trent Edwards look good. Really. That's how bad our defense is. He had a ****ing 75% completion rate! WTF?? Our defense does not work right now, and we should try something else instead of doing the same god damned thing every week.

Thats what im saying, and it starts and DE

[DaneMcCloud]

The underachieving Free Agent, brought in to be the Chiefs #2 Wide Receiver... You know...the one with 10 catches all season long got the start over two Receivers drafted by the organization. Nope, no politics involved there.

Franklin is 4th round rookie; Webb, a sixth round "veteran".

Franklin has dropped balls at critical junctures and did again on Sunday.

Webb shouldn't even be in the NFL.

I'm no fan of Darling but he's a little further along than those guys. Not by much, but he is further along.

I've been say this since May: The Chiefs will only win 3 games in 2008 due to the lack of talent at the following positions: QB, WR, C, RG, RT, DE and MLB.

You're not telling me anything that I didn't already know.

[DaneMcCloud]

Thank you Captain Obvious. Shall I add in a few dozen examples of my own?


The point is that YOU said that since Herb Taylor played right tackle at TCU, that must be his "natural" position.

I countered with the fact that college position doesn't necessarily translate to the NFL and gave examples as such.

And this is your response?

[Ebolapox]

Franklin is 4th round rookie; Webb, a sixth round "veteran".

Franklin has dropped balls at critical junctures and did again on Sunday.

Webb shouldn't even be in the NFL.

I'm no fan of Darling but he's a little further along than those guys. Not by much, but he is further along.

I've been say this since May: The Chiefs will only win 3 games in 2008 due to the lack of talent at the following positions: QB, WR, C, LG, LT, DE and MLB.

You're not telling me anything that I didn't already know.

wait--LT? I'll agree on the rest. but branden albert has been solid as iraq.

[ChiefsCountry]

Dane meant RG and RT.

[Ebolapox]

Dane meant RG and RT.

kinda what I assumed.

[DaneMcCloud]

Dane meant RG and RT.

Dane's been drinking tonight.

The folks are in town for a week starting tonight.

:D

[Tribal Warfare]

Dane's been drinking tonight.

The folks are in town for a week starting tonight.

:D

Have they met Eva yet? :D

[DaneMcCloud]

Have they met Eva yet? :D

No, but they met Jack.

Jack Daniels, that is :D

[Tribal Warfare]

No, but they met Jack.

Jack Daniels, that is :D

Everyone's southern buddy who's cordial to anyone at any occasion.

[Reerun_KC]

Dane's been drinking tonight.

The folks are in town for a week starting tonight.

:D

Your folks or the better halfs folks?

[Micjones]

The point is that YOU said that since Herb Taylor played right tackle at TCU, that must be his "natural" position.

I also said that if he's better suited at a different position the NFL, so be it.
Don't let that get in the way of you trying to make a point though.

[Micjones]

Franklin is 4th round rookie; Webb, a sixth round "veteran".

Franklin has dropped balls at critical junctures and did again on Sunday.

What on Earth does Franklin's draft position have to do with anything?
I believe that he could be contributing if it had not been for injuries derailing his progress. Even in just a limited role. He's dropped a handful of balls. He's a rookie. Give the kid a break. Darling's dropped passes and struggled to get open. He's a 4 or 5 year player.

[DaneMcCloud]

Your folks or the better halfs folks?

Mine. They're in for a week.

They're loving the fact it'll be 81 today, since it was snowing and like 20 when they left KC yesterday.

[DaneMcCloud]

I also said that if he's better suited at a different position the NFL, so be it.
Don't let that get in the way of you trying to make a point though.

Believe me, I won't.

[DaneMcCloud]

What on Earth does Franklin's draft position have to do with anything?
I believe that he could be contributing if it had not been for injuries derailing his progress. Even in just a limited role. He's dropped a handful of balls. He's a rookie. Give the kid a break. Darling's dropped passes and struggled to get open. He's a 4 or 5 year player.

Uh, you're the one you brought up "politics" as the reason that Darling started when Bradley was injured over Webb or Franklin.

Both Webb and Franklin played quite a bit this past Sunday so again, your statement has no merit.

And once again, Darling has been a disappointment. Though personally, I didn't expect much from a career 4th WR on a offensively-challenged Ravens squad.

[Micjones]

Believe me, I won't.

That's par for the course.

[Reerun_KC]

Mine. They're in for a week.

They're loving the fact it'll be 81 today, since it was snowing and like 20 when they left KC yesterday.

Nice! Lucky!

[DaneMcCloud]

That's par for the course.

Well, when you fail to make any type of point, I don't have a choice.

[Micjones]

Uh, you're the one you brought up "politics" as the reason that Darling started when Bradley was injured over Webb or Franklin.

And I haven't changed my position.

Both Webb and Franklin played quite a bit this past Sunday so again, your statement has no merit.

They saw plenty of action.
Webb was targeted thrice (on one drive).
Franklin? Try once all day.

[Micjones]

Well, when you fail to make any type of point, I don't have a choice.

I made my point. I imagine that Taylor would tell you himself that he's most comfortable playing on the right side of the line. That's where he's spent most of his playing days.

More importantly, this was never a point of contention.
I said from the beginning if he's better suited elsewhere, amen.

[Hammock Parties]

And once again, Darling has been a disappointment. Though personally, I didn't expect much from a career 4th WR on a offensively-challenged Ravens squad.

We may never realize Devard Darling's greatness unless we find a real QB...

[chiefzilla1501]

We may never realize Devard Darling's greatness unless we find a real QB...

Ha. That's pretty hilarious.

Thigpen never had a problem finding Bradley. The reason Darling doesn't get the ball is because he's never open.

[Hammock Parties]

Ha. That's pretty hilarious.

Thigpen never had a problem finding Bradley. The reason Darling doesn't get the ball is because he's never open.

Last week Darling was wide open for six and Thigpen horribly missed him...who knows how many other times the great Darling was open and Thigpen didn't even look his way...we're wasting a HOF wide receiver talent...