The rebuild, version 10,000.

[Direckshun]

So far.

Rookie class:

Dorsey -- leads all rookie DL in tackles
Albert -- surrendered just 3.5 sacks
Flowers -- 4th among all rookie CBs in tackles, tied 2nd in INTs
Charles -- 2nd among all rookie RBs in YPC
Cottam -- 5th among rookie TEs in receptions
Carr -- 1st among all rookie CBs in tackles, tied 2nd in INTs

2nd year:

Bowe -- leads all 2nd year WRs in receptions
McBride -- 2nd among 2nd year DL in tackles, leads same group in FR
Tyler -- 4th among 2nd year DL in tackles, tied for 2nd amongst same group in FR
Taylor -- good stints at LT and RT

3rd year:

Hali -- 6th among 3rd year DL in tackles
Pollard -- 2nd among 3rd year S in tackles
Page -- 5th among 3rd year S in tackles, 2nd in INTs

I know stats are just part of the story, but that's what we got from the Herm era so far.

[unothadeal]

I say their stats should stop being compared to their draft year and start being compared to the entire NFL once they're in their 2nd year.

[Direckshun]

I say their stats should stop being compared to their draft year and start being compared to the entire NFL once they're in their 2nd year.

That's fair.

[Mecca]

The problem here is tackle stats especially for Dlineman are meaningless, if an end can't get sacks he's pretty worthless.

[1ChiefsDan]

Rank doesn't really tell us much if we don't know how many are in the pool.

Is 5th good - or are there only 5 or are there 20?

Also agree Sandy on the comparisons after 2nd year.

[KCwolf]

So far.

Rookie class:

Dorsey -- leads all rookie DL in tackles
Albert -- surrendered just 3.5 sacks
Flowers -- 4th among all rookie CBs in tackles, tied 2nd in INTs
Charles -- 2nd among all rookie RBs in YPC
Cottam -- 5th among rookie TEs in receptions
Carr -- 1st among all rookie CBs in tackles, tied 2nd in INTs

2nd year:

Bowe -- leads all 2nd year WRs in receptions
McBride -- 2nd among 2nd year DL in tackles, leads same group in FR
Tyler -- 4th among 2nd year DL in tackles, tied for 2nd amongst same group in FR
Taylor -- good stints at LT and RT

3rd year:

Hali -- 6th among 3rd year DL in tackles
Pollard -- 2nd among 3rd year S in tackles
Page -- 5th among 3rd year S in tackles, 2nd in INTs

I know stats are just part of the story, but that's what we got from the Herm era so far.



Good Stats....maybe..just maybe..we draft better than most think?

[boogblaster]

Not bad really .. but help is needed ...

[Reerun_KC]

Not bad at all, but coaching is need to push these guys over the top and make them excellent NFL players...

[DaFace]

Good Stats....maybe..just maybe..we draft better than most think?

Perhaps, but keep in mind that there are a lot of players that aren't on that list because they're not even on the team at this point.

[unothadeal]

Perhaps, but keep in mind that there are a lot of players that aren't on that list because they're not even on the team at this point.

What do you mean?

[Quesadilla Joe]

Denver has drafted better:)

[Reerun_KC]

Denver has drafted better:)

So Denvers QB totally jacked up our young CB and he still make that list...

[Mr. Kotter]

Denver has drafted better:)

Put yo' money where yo' mouth is....those are some decent numbers.... :hmmm:

[Quesadilla Joe]

Put yo' money where yo' mouth is....those are some decent numbers.... :hmmm:

06
1st round- Cutler- best QB in the draft
2nd Round- Scheffler best TE in the draft
4th Round- Dumervil - 25.5 sacks first 2 and half seasons
4th Round-Brandon Marshall - Best WR in the draft
Domenick Hixon - starts for the Giants
Chris Kuper - starting Right guard

07
Jarvis Moss- NOTHING starts though
Tim Crowder- Nothing doesn't even dress
Marcus Thomas- Solid Starter
Ryan Harris - Solid starting right tackle.

08
Hit on everyone and got the best LT and WR in the draft.:clap:

[Reerun_KC]

06
1st round- Cutler- best QB in the draft
2nd Round- Scheffler best TE in the draft
4th Round- Dumervil - 25.5 sacks first 2 and half seasons
4th Round-Brandon Marshall - Best WR in the draft
Domenick Hixon - starts for the Giants
Chris Kuper - starting Right guard

07
Jarvis Moss- NOTHING starts though
Tim Crowder- Nothing doesn't even dress
Marcus Thomas- Solid Starter
Ryan Harris - Solid starting right tackle.

08
Hit on everyone and got the best LT and WR in the draft.:clap:

Who cares, your just jealous that we have Herm and he has a "Keen Eye" for talent...

[Quesadilla Joe]

Who cares, your just jealous that we have Herm and he has a "Keen Eye" for talent...

ROFL

[Reerun_KC]

ROFL

Laugh all you want, Herm will fix our defense and you will pay for your maukery... He is a defensive guru, Remember the Tamap 2, Yeah I know you do, he was part of that coaching staff.. He can draft talent, you just wait, our DL will be a force before the season is over...

[Direckshun]

06
1st round- Cutler- best QB in the draft
2nd Round- Scheffler best TE in the draft
4th Round- Dumervil - 25.5 sacks first 2 and half seasons
4th Round-Brandon Marshall - Best WR in the draft
Domenick Hixon - starts for the Giants
Chris Kuper - starting Right guard

07
Jarvis Moss- NOTHING starts though
Tim Crowder- Nothing doesn't even dress
Marcus Thomas- Solid Starter
Ryan Harris - Solid starting right tackle.

08
Hit on everyone and got the best LT and WR in the draft.:clap:

Your 06 draft was silly good.

07 didn't really do anything for you but a solid RT. Not a good Draft.

Your 08 draft scored with Clady and Royal, Hillis was a great pick, and Larson looks like good value. But Lichtensteiger, Williams, Torain, Barrett, and Powell haven't made much of an impact, but certainly Barrett and Torain have a legit shot. Good draft, but I'm still thinking our 08 draft beats you out.

[cdcox]

Tackles have some limited value in evaluating LBs. For everyone else, it is pretty meaningless.

If a CB gets a lot of tackles it probably means they are throwing to his guy, and he is catching it, and he was open. A CB with a lot of tackles is not a good thing.

A S getting a lot of tackles is a good indicator that the running game is busting through the front 7. An exception might be made for an incredibly active S like Polumalu.

Tackles by the DL are definitely good, but it is not their primary job. For DE the key stat is sacks; for DT, penetration is more important than tackles.

[tmax63]

I just like that we have six rookies that are good enough to:
1. still be on the team
2. start on something other than ST
3. look like they are gonna play more than a yr or 2 until they can get a replacement for a sub-par performer.

[EyePod]

Good Stats....maybe..just maybe..we draft better than most think?

I'm pretty sure everyone can agree that we've drafted decently over the past few years, with a few crazy picks, but that's to be expected. I know my problem isn't with who we've drafted. The problem I have is how we've coached these players.

[Lzen]

Good Stats....maybe..just maybe..we draft better than most think?

Yes, I think we do. Much better than the previous coaching staff. I was just looking back at the 2001-2003 drafts. It is enough to make a Chiefs fan cry.

[Lzen]

06
1st round- Cutler- best QB in the draft
2nd Round- Scheffler best TE in the draft
4th Round- Dumervil - 25.5 sacks first 2 and half seasons
4th Round-Brandon Marshall - Best WR in the draft
Domenick Hixon - starts for the Giants
Chris Kuper - starting Right guard

07
Jarvis Moss- NOTHING starts though
Tim Crowder- Nothing doesn't even dress
Marcus Thomas- Solid Starter
Ryan Harris - Solid starting right tackle.

08
Hit on everyone and got the best LT and WR in the draft.:clap:

Geez, this guy isn't a homer. :rolleyes:

[The Franchise]

06
1st round- Cutler- best QB in the draft
2nd Round- Scheffler best TE in the draft
4th Round- Dumervil - 25.5 sacks first 2 and half seasons
4th Round-Brandon Marshall - Best WR in the draft
Domenick Hixon - starts for the Giants
Chris Kuper - starting Right guard

07
Jarvis Moss- NOTHING starts though
Tim Crowder- Nothing doesn't even dress
Marcus Thomas- Solid Starter
Ryan Harris - Solid starting right tackle.

08
Hit on everyone and got the best LT and WR in the draft.:clap:

I would rate Owen Daniels of the Texans higher than Scheffler in the 2006 draft.

And don't forget that Marques Colston was drafted in the 2006 draft as well.

Marshall's stats - 205 rec. 2,667 yards and 15 TDs
Colston's stats - 199 rec. 2,778 yards and 21 TDs

[CoMoChief]

A lot of this has to do with the fact that Herm is rebuilding this team therefore he's playing a lot of these younger players right out of the gate.

Most teams (esp playoff teams) have NFL vets that mostly start over their draft picks while the rooks learn the ropes of the league, or until that vet in front of them gets traded, starts to decline, etc.

Kinda like what happened when DV was here, but maybe not to that extent. But most playoff teams don't have rookies taking 50-60 snaps a game like we do.

[Mr. Laz]

all the tackles our guys get are drastically inflated because they can't ever stop anyone.

Tackles/# of Plays faced would give you a ratio that would be much better for evaluation purposes.


btw this makes the lack of sacks by our defense even more glaring:

zero sacks in 100 plays

vs

zero sacks in 1000 plays. WTF!! :cuss:

[RedThat]

all the tackles our guys get are drastically inflated because they can't ever stop anyone.

Tackles/# of Plays faced would give you a ratio that would be much better for evaluation purposes.


btw this makes the lack of sacks by our defense even more glaring:

zero sacks in 100 plays

vs

zero sacks in 1000 plays. WTF!! :cuss:

EXACTLY! Well put Laz

[Kaylore]

So far.

Rookie class:

Dorsey -- leads all rookie DL in tackles
Albert -- surrendered just 3.5 sacks
Flowers -- 4th among all rookie CBs in tackles, tied 2nd in INTs
Charles -- 2nd among all rookie RBs in YPC
Cottam -- 5th among rookie TEs in receptions
Carr -- 1st among all rookie CBs in tackles, tied 2nd in INTs

2nd year:

Bowe -- leads all 2nd year WRs in receptions
McBride -- 2nd among 2nd year DL in tackles, leads same group in FR
Tyler -- 4th among 2nd year DL in tackles, tied for 2nd amongst same group in FR
Taylor -- good stints at LT and RT

3rd year:

Hali -- 6th among 3rd year DL in tackles
Pollard -- 2nd among 3rd year S in tackles
Page -- 5th among 3rd year S in tackles, 2nd in INTs

I know stats are just part of the story, but that's what we got from the Herm era so far.
I can't believe people fell for this. Those are all incredibly cherry picked. You basically don't mention their actual production and then rank them against small sample sizes so they can appear higher on a list. Let's look at some of these.

Hali: 6th among third year DL? How many are behind him? How many DL drafted three years ago are still in the league? How many were drafted at all? He was a first rounder, no? What are his sacks? How many DL were taken total in the draft? If there were 12 and six are still in the league then suddenly "6th among third year DL" looks like crap. In fact you might as well throw out "third year" stats because you're reducing the sample pool to make things look better than they are.

"Good stints at LT and RT" is funny. Again, wording things to seem better than they are. just be honest and say "backup/depth."

Your Charles "YPC" stat is worthless. If you break off one long run then your average is 30 yards. I think we can safely say out of a huge class for rookie running backs, maybe the best ever, Charles is toward the bottom of the list. When you have guys like Forte, Johnson, Slayton, etc. al, suddenly this doesn't look so great.

The Cottam stat is hilarious because 5th is awful especially when you point out this was one of the worst classes for TE's in a long time. Why don't you post any of these players actual numbers? (Because they suck.) At least you didn't draft Fred Davis.

You put a lot of emphasis tackle numbers. How about looking at how the pieces are making your defense work together? Your defense is dead last. the truth is their tackle numbers are high because they can't get off the field. So pointing to a high amount of tackles and saying that proves the draft is "better than expected" is fallacious.

Your hits, are one safety from '06, One wide receiver from '07 and maybe your DT and then your '08 class is early, but Flowers, Carr, and Albert (who is a guard out of position) look good. Charles is so-so. Some of you want to throw Dorsey under the bus but it takes DT's three years to get their sea-leagues.

So ranking them like you did is nothing more than a good way to try and make things look better than they are. Post their stats and then see if they make their team better and you'll have a better feel for how good the drafts really are. "He is fifth in tackles for all players named John who have a mole on their ass" lol

[Mojo Rising]

Don Banks on CNNSI did a re-draft based on production up until now. He has our top 2 picks ranked at 29 and 30. Not too good.

Kansas City Chiefs (Original Pick: Glenn Dorsey, DT, LSU)
RE-DO PICK: CHRIS LONG, DE, VIRGINIA
The Chiefs have gotten virtually zero impact out of Dorsey, and they sure could have used some defensive line help to offset the loss of the traded Jared Allen. Long has modest statistics, but his four sacks are a good first step in the right direction. Don't forget it took Mario Williams until year two to find his groove.

Kansas City Chiefs (Branden Albert, OL, Virginia)
RE-DO PICK: JOHN CARLSON, TE, NOTRE DAME
It's hard to quibble with Albert, who has been all the Chiefs could have expected from a rookie left tackle. But Carlson is one of the best young tight ends in the league, and if Kansas City had him, it would have definitely moved veteran Tony Gonzalez at the trade deadline for some more draft picks to aid in its rebuilding project.

San Francisco 49ers (Original Pick: Kentwan Balmer, DT, North Carolina)
RE-DO PICK: GLENN DORSEY, DT, LSU
If you're going to wind up taking a low-impact defensive tackle -- as the 49ers did with Balmer -- you might as well draft the guy who most teams had rated as a top-three pick. Dorsey has been near invisible in Kansas City, but his obvious play-making skills will make themselves known at some point.

New York Jets (Original Pick: Dustin Keller, TE, Purdue)
RE-DO PICK: BRANDEN ALBERT, OL, VIRGINIA
With no Keller around to spend this pick on, we think it makes sense for the Jets to add to their vastly improved offensive line by selecting Albert. Ideally he'd take over for veteran Damien Woody at right tackle at some point, but he can also play guard, where he starred in college.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/don_banks/12/10/re-do-draft-2008/index.html

[The Franchise]

Don Banks on CNNSI did a re-draft based on production up until now. He has our top 2 picks ranked at 29 and 30. Not too good.

Kansas City Chiefs (Original Pick: Glenn Dorsey, DT, LSU)
RE-DO PICK: CHRIS LONG, DE, VIRGINIA
The Chiefs have gotten virtually zero impact out of Dorsey, and they sure could have used some defensive line help to offset the loss of the traded Jared Allen. Long has modest statistics, but his four sacks are a good first step in the right direction. Don't forget it took Mario Williams until year two to find his groove.

Kansas City Chiefs (Branden Albert, OL, Virginia)
RE-DO PICK: JOHN CARLSON, TE, NOTRE DAME
It's hard to quibble with Albert, who has been all the Chiefs could have expected from a rookie left tackle. But Carlson is one of the best young tight ends in the league, and if Kansas City had him, it would have definitely moved veteran Tony Gonzalez at the trade deadline for some more draft picks to aid in its rebuilding project.

San Francisco 49ers (Original Pick: Kentwan Balmer, DT, North Carolina)
RE-DO PICK: GLENN DORSEY, DT, LSU
If you're going to wind up taking a low-impact defensive tackle -- as the 49ers did with Balmer -- you might as well draft the guy who most teams had rated as a top-three pick. Dorsey has been near invisible in Kansas City, but his obvious play-making skills will make themselves known at some point.

New York Jets (Original Pick: Dustin Keller, TE, Purdue)
RE-DO PICK: BRANDEN ALBERT, OL, VIRGINIA
With no Keller around to spend this pick on, we think it makes sense for the Jets to add to their vastly improved offensive line by selecting Albert. Ideally he'd take over for veteran Damien Woody at right tackle at some point, but he can also play guard, where he starred in college.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/don_banks/12/10/re-do-draft-2008/index.html

That is dumb as shit. So instead of drafting Albert (who has been downright great in his 1st year)....we'd draft Carlson because it would allow us to trade Tony G. Dumb Dumb Dumb

[Mojo Rising]

I don't agree with the idea behind drafting a TE. My point is that the 5th and 16th players taken were ranked 29th and 30th based on this years performance to date.

[Brock]

That is dumb as shit. So instead of drafting Albert (who has been downright great in his 1st year)....we'd draft Carlson because it would allow us to trade Tony G. Dumb Dumb Dumb

At least the guy had the sense to move Ryan and Flacco up to the top spots.