What the ****, let's mock.

[Direckshun]

I'm going to throw some ideas out there. Let me know what you think.

We're drafting at #5.

1. DE Brian Orakpo, Texas

I think the Chiefs could use help in a lot of places, but DE is the absolute worst. We need a completely new influx of talent. Hali is really the only guy that deserves to continue getting playing time, and that's largely because he's a first rounder. McBride is a nickel DE, that's about it. Johnston belongs on the practice squad, period.

To solve this, I believe the Chiefs must do a couple things. There is always a very small group of young, promising pass-rush specialists that hit the FA market every year. The Chiefs should throw their cap space around and snag the absolute best one. There's a chance they'll overpay, but it's a necessary evil to rebound from 2008.

The second step is, if Orakpo proves himself worthy, picking him up in the Draft. While I remain skeptical, some of that can be washed away due to Orakpo beating decent to great LTs across the Big XII, as his numbers remain elite and his measurables stay in Chris Long territory. Combine with with our FA acquisition, and it's bound to be an expensive upgrade at DE, but you need that more than anything in this league.

2. QB Nate Davis, Ball State

Certainly Thigpen deserves a shot as the incumbent starter, and Gray is a worthy clipboard holder, but no starter himself. Davis is a great 3rd QB option on a year where we're trying out literally everything we can think of. He's got good measurables while possessing many of Thigpen's strengths, such as athleticism, great stats, and unflappability in bright lights. His accuracy is also much, much better.

Now there are concerns with Davis, namely that he comes from a decidedly less than stellar program against inferior competition, but if he has the tools, he should be given a year with the clipboard and we can go from there. The same derision could have been made about Flacco.

3. OLB Clay Matthews, USC

OLB is by far our shallowest position, even with DE struggling. The Chiefs would serve themselves well drafting a couple of these guys. A good first step could be Matthews, who comes out of a compatible system in USC.

There's a bit of the Kolby Smith factor to Matthews, who sat behind elite talent for some time before finally getting his shot this year. He played very well, and hes's proven very capable of getting to the QB, which can never be overlooked. I don't know if he'd be a better fit at Will or Sam, but that's fine since DJ can man either position.

4. MLB Daniel Holtzclaw, Eastern Michigan

Holtzclaw is going to be a fairly raw prospect from a lousy defense in Eastern Michigan, which surrounded his NFL abilities with absolute crap. As a result, Holtzclaw racked up great numbers this year despite the fact that his team gave up a load of points. There's only so much one guy can do.

It goes without saying that whoever we draft this year at MLB will be thrown into the fire. Holtzclaw is the kind of character that rises to that, it seems, and while he'll make loads of bone-headed plays as he tries to adjust to NFL speed and power, but this is an upside pick, and physically Holtzclaw has every tool necessary to succeed.

5. OG Ray Feinga, BYU

I would prefer to have taken a center here, but all the available centers at this point are zone-blockers. Feinga's a big, big man with surprisingly quick feet. In particular, he's an enthusiastic run blocker against the inferior MWC defenses, and he's allowed for the sometimes brilliant BYU offense to become as prolific as it is due to his pass blocking prowess as well.

6. CB Lydell Sargeant, Penn State

Here's where I simply have to trust Herm to see players for their character. He's taken chances on character concerns before, and it's worked out for him just about every single time. Sargeant sports good speed, decent size, and tremendous talent -- but it's his priors that might get in the way here. Needless to say, this is a low-round CB pick and Herm's been fairly successful with these kinds of choices.

7. OLB Jonathan Casillas, Wisconsin

Casillas seems like the kind of undersized-but-speedy OLB that always, always falls in the draft. Well not for me. In the ChiefsPlanet mock draft, I picked the similar Wesley Woodyard in the midrounds, but he went UDFA to the Broncos where, guess what, he's tearing it up despite his smaller size. Casillas compares favorably with Woodyard, possessing enough speed to reach the other side of the field if need be. A solid option at WOLB.

[Mecca]

I seriously doubt this coaching staff would ever properly use Clay Matthews...

And what if I told you I had serious doubts about Orakpo as a pass rusher?

[Cornstock]

isnt davis a jr? i thought i heard rumors of him not coming out. I watched him a few weeks ago and i was impressed. the armstrength is incredible, and he had several of those 15 yard out "pro" throws, and more than one was off his back foot fading away. Favre-esque in that regard (dont think im comparing him to Favre in anything else tho)

[Direckshun]

I seriously doubt this coaching staff would ever properly use Clay Matthews...

And what if I told you I had serious doubts about Orakpo as a pass rusher?

How would you use Matthews? You're the expert -- I don't even know if he'd work better on the weak or strong side. He's a good talent with a knack for pass rushing, an absolute must for the Chiefs.

I have hesitations myself about Orakpo. But this isn't a phenomenal DE class and I can acknowledge the fact he's played very well this season and there's a good chance his Combine numbers will, like I said, be Chris Long quality.

I don't know. It's tough to say. As long as Krumrie's not around, I'll believe we have a shot with developing this kid.

[Direckshun]

isnt davis a jr? i thought i heard rumors of him not coming out. I watched him a few weeks ago and i was impressed. the armstrength is incredible, and he had several of those 15 yard out "pro" throws, and more than one was off his back foot fading away. Favre-esque in that regard (dont think im comparing him to Favre in anything else tho)

Yeah, this mock assumes Davis comes out.

Although, in none of my mocks, have I assumed Bradford or McCoy comes out. Silly me.

[Mecca]

When I look at Brian Orakpo I see a strong side power end that gets 8-10 sacks a year, I don't see a backside terror pass rusher.

Also McBride isn't a nickel DE, he's an oversized end with no pass rush moves, if anything he's a backup tweener.

[Cornstock]

Do you think the 2nd is too early for him? I have my doubts about taking him that high.

[Cornstock]

When I look at Brian Orakpo I see a strong side power end that gets 8-10 sacks a year, I don't see a backside terror pass rusher.

Also McBride isn't a nickel DE, he's an oversized end with no pass rush moves, if anything he's a backup tweener.

I think our whole team is full of power side guys: Hali, McBride, and Boone when he plays/ed there. I want a tall/lean speed guy (reminiscant of anyone?) Its a shame Brian Johnston got hurt. Really hampered his development, and i had high hopes for him.

[Direckshun]

QB: Thigpen, Gray, Davis
RB: Johnson, Charles, Smith
FB: Cox

WR: Bowe, Bradley, Franklin, Darling, Webb
TE: Gonzalez, Cottam, Merritt

LT: Albert, McIntosh
LG: Waters, Niswanger
C: Smith, Niswanger
RG: Feinga, Richardson
RT: Taylor, Richardson

DE: FA, Orakpo
DT: Dorsey, Boone
DT: Tyler, Edwards
DE: Hali, McBride

WOLB: Williams, Casillas
MLB: Holtzclaw, Thomas
SOLB: Johnson, Matthews

CB: Flowers, Carr, Leggett, Sargeant, Brackenridge
S: Page, Pollard, Morgan, McGraw

K: Barth
P: Colquitt
LS: Darche
KR/PR: Robinson

[Mecca]

I think our whole team is full of power side guys: Hali, McBride, and Boone when he plays/ed there. I want a tall/lean speed guy (reminiscant of anyone?) Its a shame Brian Johnston got hurt. Really hampered his development, and i had high hopes for him.

All of these ends we have are complete scrubs...if this team drafted Brian Orakpo the first thing I would say is....McBride has to go to backup DT occasional DE and Hali becomes his backup and we still don't have a rusher on the other side.

Oh and Boone and Edwards get cut in that scenario.

[Cornstock]

QB: Thigpen, Gray, Davis

WOLB: Williams, Casillas
MLB: Holtzclaw, Thomas
SOLB: Johnson, Matthews



Do u not like DJ at MLB, or are u reserving judgement? I think its an exciting possibility.

[Mecca]

I don't particularly like DJ at any position...

And Clay Matthews best position at SC is playing the "elephant" which is a standup end almost like being a 3-4 backer, I doubt the Chiefs would remotely understand how to use him.

[Direckshun]

I despise DJ at MLB.

[RustShack]

I seriously doubt this coaching staff would ever properly use Clay Matthews...

And what if I told you I had serious doubts about Orakpo as a pass rusher?

I said I think Orakpo will be a LE in the NFL a month ago and shit hit the fan...

[Mecca]

I said I think Orakpo will be a LE in the NFL a month ago and shit hit the fan...

That's what I see, I see a guy that is a big power dude, he probably ends up at 275 or 280lbs on an NFL program. And his speed in college is likely average to above average in the NFL.

I see a guy who plays over the RT defends the run well and gets 8-10 sacks mostly on overpowering a RT and pulling out a quick move here and there than a guy who beats LT's around the edge.

[Direckshun]

I don't particularly like DJ at any position...

And Clay Matthews best position at SC is playing the "elephant" which is a standup end almost like being a 3-4 backer, I doubt the Chiefs would remotely understand how to use him.

Why not?

They tried it with Bell.

They still try it with Williams.

[Direckshun]

That's what I see, I see a guy that is a big power dude, he probably ends up at 275 or 280lbs on an NFL program. And his speed in college is likely average to above average in the NFL.

I see a guy who plays over the RT defends the run well and gets 8-10 sacks mostly on overpowering a RT and pulling out a quick move here and there than a guy who beats LT's around the edge.

That's fair.

[Mecca]

Why not?

They tried it with Bell.

They still try it with Williams.

This is the Chiefs they probably wouldn't try it with him...and part of the greatness of the elephant position is he doesn't rush out of it every time sometimes he does other times he drops off.

And it's not something that is run every down, it's mostly a pass down set.

[RedThat]

That's what I see, I see a guy that is a big power dude, he probably ends up at 275 or 280lbs on an NFL program. And his speed in college is likely average to above average in the NFL.

I see a guy who plays over the RT defends the run well and gets 8-10 sacks mostly on overpowering a RT and pulling out a quick move here and there than a guy who beats LT's around the edge.

I'd take that on my team. Thats sounds like a lot better then what Hali can do?

It would sure be some damn good production on our Dline right now.

[Cornstock]

So essentially youre saying matthews is more of a 3-4 guy?

[Direckshun]

I'd take that on my team. Thats sounds like a lot better then what Hali can do?

It would sure be some damn good production on our Dline right now.

The problem, though, is that it takes considerably less ability to play LDE, and you can snag decent LDEs, even elite LDEs, in lower rounds. Elite RDEs are awfully rare, and they surface most frequently at the top of the draft.

[Mecca]

So essentially youre saying matthews is more of a 3-4 guy?

I think he can do either or, he partially does that at SC because he's the 4th LB in a 4-3 scheme.

In the past he's been the top backup that played when anyone went down. I think he can do alot of things but I'm saying he has a very unique skill set that lends to him being alot more than just a general LB.

[Mecca]

You want a good solid traditional OLB that'll do exactly what he's suppose to do, always be in position, not miss his tackles and probably won't go until the 2nd day because he's overlooked...

Kaluka Maiava

[RedThat]

The problem, though, is that it takes considerably less ability to play LDE, and you can snag decent LDEs, even elite LDEs, in lower rounds. Elite RDEs are awfully rare, and they surface most frequently at the top of the draft.

Direckshun,

I look at it this way, any good player we could find to fit in this line, doesnt matter where, id take him.

And yes I am speaking out of desperation. Anywhere they get help on the line id be pleased. It just too painful to arguably see the worst Dilne in the history of pro football. Improvement anywhere there would bring me some joy.

[Mecca]

You can't draft that way with that high of a pick...any player you take in the top 5 needs to become a franchise player.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

All of these ends we have are complete scrubs...if this team drafted Brian Orakpo the first thing I would say is....McBride has to go to backup DT occasional DE and Hali becomes his backup and we still don't have a rusher on the other side.

Oh and Boone and Edwards get cut in that scenario.

ROFL Word.

[ChiefsCountry]

2nd round QB isnt going to win you a Super Bowl.

[chiefzilla1501]

All of these ends we have are complete scrubs...if this team drafted Brian Orakpo the first thing I would say is....McBride has to go to backup DT occasional DE and Hali becomes his backup and we still don't have a rusher on the other side.

Oh and Boone and Edwards get cut in that scenario.

I'm with you on this train. I don't know how good Orakpo is. I think the Chiefs need to get Peppers or maybe Suggs (if they're comfortable using him as a Falcon) for sure, but if Orakpo is seen as a can't-miss DE, you still draft him even if that means committing a ton of money to one position.

I don't know why so many people are so afraid to spend a lot of money on bringing in 2 DEs. I actually think Hali and McBride, if they were to rotate in (Hali on passing downs and McBride on running downs) would make for a solid but unspectacular tandem. But no doubt they need to bring in a pure pass rushing threat at RDE, and I would have no qualms about spending a lot of money to bring in a second pass rush threat on the other side. I know it would cost a lot of money, but I just can't imagine how good a line that consisted of Peppers-Dorsey-Tyler-Orakpo would be. Lots of people here are jumping up and down about a dire need to build through the LBs, but most great defenses seem to consistently build through their defensive line.

[Mecca]

I don't think the Chiefs could get those guys if they wanted to, those guys are the premier guys they will get offered huge money from good teams, why would they wanna play for the Chiefs?

[chiefzilla1501]

I think he can do either or, he partially does that at SC because he's the 4th LB in a 4-3 scheme.

In the past he's been the top backup that played when anyone went down. I think he can do alot of things but I'm saying he has a very unique skill set that lends to him being alot more than just a general LB.

I'm at odds about whether the Chiefs should consider moving over to a 3-4. At the very least, they need to start mixing in that look.

I think a line of Dorsey-Tyler-McBride is actually the kind you look for in a 3-4. DEs in a 3-4 are usually bigger guys, rather than your typical Freeney type of smaller, explosive guys. If they move to a 3-4, then I think Orakpo could actually make for a really good OLB/DE flex type player, and you can bring in a LB like Bart Scott and draft another solid LB in the second round. And/or you can bring in Suggs to be your OLB/DE, but that assumes that he'll hit the open market, which I don't think he will.

[Mecca]

Tank Tyler would get absolutely abused as a NT....

Also if you were drafting guys you think would play OLB in a 3-4 then you start looking at George Selvie...

[chiefzilla1501]

I don't think the Chiefs could get those guys if they wanted to, those guys are the premier guys they will get offered huge money from good teams, why would they wanna play for the Chiefs?

If there's anything I've learned, players care a ton more about money than the situation. If the Chiefs offer more money (and it doesn't have to be a LOT more), they'll get the guys they want. Granted, that means that Peterson would actually have to send an aggressive offer to elite players, which he will never do.

[Mecca]

If there's anything I've learned, players care a ton more about money than the situation. If the Chiefs offer more money (and it doesn't have to be a LOT more), they'll get the guys they want. Granted, that means that Peterson would actually have to send an aggressive offer to elite players, which he will never do.

The Chiefs are not going to outbid every other team for guys getting over 20 mill guaranteed, that isn't the Chiefs. To get Suggs in here they'd have to make him paid on the level of Jared Allen or close to it.

[chiefzilla1501]

The Chiefs are not going to outbid every other team for guys getting over 20 mill guaranteed, that isn't the Chiefs. To get Suggs in here they'd have to make him paid on the level of Jared Allen or close to it.

Can they? Yes. Will they? No.

Carl Peterson's method is to lowball the elite and overpay the average. He can't win an elite free agent unless he's able to drag out the negotiation--that works okay if you're talking about LJ and Jared Allen, guys that you have leverage over, but it doesn't work in the free agency market.

I know that they need to bring in Peppers or Suggs or someone on that level. What pisses me off to no end is that I know that he'll instead overpay second-level free agents and trick many Chiefs fans into thinking he got great players.

I'm so fucking sick of his act. And it pisses me off that we'll probably have to deal with him for another year, just enough time to still fuck up what could be a good foundation to build upon.

[DaneMcCloud]

I despise DJ at MLB.

I despise Taylor at right tackle.

He's 25 pounds too light and 3 inches too short.

[Mecca]

I don't think the Chiefs ownership has ever been very interested in dropping huge bonuses...they will constantly make the argument that they don't have the cash to do that.

[ChiefsCountry]

Why do you idiots want to switch to a 3-4 you would be getting rid of our best young player in Dorsey with that.

[DaneMcCloud]

Why do you idiots want to switch to a 3-4 you would be getting rid of our best young player in Dorsey with that.

Idiots being the key word

[Mecca]

He'd have to play end in that, Seymour was a 4-3 under tackle that moved to 3-4 end.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

2nd round QB isnt going to win you a Super Bowl.

It's all about the declaration and the Chiefs position. And guess what? If Detroit bites first; there's no one left worth grabbing.

Now don't back track on me and pull Davis out as a viable alternative; stick to your guns.
You want a QB pick that has experience playing in a pro-style offense because you know as well as I do that this years offensive trend is next years trash-heap fodder. And you know that in this draft, as the declarations currently stand, there's only one cream of the crop guy available; and he occupies your signature.
So if we can't get him, let it pass; let the 2009 draft, as it relates to a QB, come and go.
Because the fact of the matter is; Herm and Co. will continue their usual excellence and be gone for 2010. And once again, we'll have good position.
And here's the bonus:
All of those "other guys" that will be lined up and getting pimped like the Second Coming of Spread Nirvana will be gone. And we can get down to the business of drafting a QB that doesn't live and die by hocus-pocus.

Your boy Stafford has improved and upped his personal game considerably this season. If he's available, we grab him. I'm down.
But if he's gone and Mark re-up's at USC; let's hold off. And if not just for him, then let's see who else emerges.
Personal tastes in candidate aside, I agree with you that this position is a no-compromise situation. No quarter should be given.
Thigpen could possibly end up being the best spread QB in the NFL, and that's great. But let's grab a guy that knows how to work the other side of the spectrum because Herm and his "Hermness" will soon be gone, and it seems best to have two core guys with different strengths that we can use and plan around.

[Mecca]

That Oklahoma fan around here is going to be really pissed off at you he thinks Bradford is a light years better prospect than Sanchez.

[chiefzilla1501]

Why do you idiots want to switch to a 3-4 you would be getting rid of our best young player in Dorsey with that.

I just threw it out as an option. It's worth looking into. And I love how people use the word "idiot" so liberally.

You do realize that 3-4 features 3 linemen that are usually more in the mold of a DT than a DE, right? Most people would argue that a 3-4 alignment features 3 DTs and the reason a lot of teams run it is because it's easier to find 2-gap DTs than it is to find stud DEs. Dorsey would fit well in a 3-4. In fact, arguably, it could be a great defensive fit for him.

The Ravens have Haloti Ngata playing DE right now in their 3-4. He's a 345 lb tackle. And most would argue that he's playing at a pro bowl level. But what does Rex Ryan know. He's an idiot.

It's worth experimenting with, but here's the deal: if you run a 4-3, you need to find 2 solid DEs because McBride and Hali aren't really cutting it. If you run a 3-4, all you really need is a Falcon type of DE and I think Orakpo could actually shine in that role. Even Hali didn't play all that bad when he played that form of DE.

[Mecca]

Well switching to a 3-4 is hard early on because you need a bunch of specialized personnel..finding a 350lb powerful nose tackle isn't easy either....

The Chiefs would basically if they were going to run a 3-4 need to cut and reform the entire front 7 save a couple guys.

[RealSNR]

Holtzclaw has a fucking badass name. Perfect for a linebacker. Almost sounds like an old giant... like a big mean nasty mutha who played for Lombardi's Packers.

Based on that alone, I'm all for drafting this kid.

[Mecca]

Boy he's awfully low in the LB listings...

And until this team gets players that actually play with passion leadership and brains we're going to continue to be in this spot.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

How would you use Matthews? You're the expert -- I don't even know if he'd work better on the weak or strong side. He's a good talent with a knack for pass rushing, an absolute must for the Chiefs.

I have hesitations myself about Orakpo. But this isn't a phenomenal DE class and I can acknowledge the fact he's played very well this season and there's a good chance his Combine numbers will, like I said, be Chris Long quality.

I don't know. It's tough to say. As long as Krumrie's not around, I'll believe we have a shot with developing this kid.

Chris Long isn't even in the same galaxy as Orakpo when it will come to the combine. Orakpo is going to be a workout freak.

[Mecca]

Chris Long isn't even in the same galaxy as Orakpo when it will come to the combine. Orakpo is going to be a workout freak.

Probably but he never had a season like Chris Longs senior year.

Also this doesn't even factor in my absolute disdain of drafting Texas players.

[chiefzilla1501]

Well switching to a 3-4 is hard early on because you need a bunch of specialized personnel..finding a 350lb powerful nose tackle isn't easy either....

The Chiefs would basically if they were going to run a 3-4 need to cut and reform the entire front 7 save a couple guys.

A 350 lb. nose tackle is hard to find, but it's not nearly as hard as finding two stud DEs. I see your point, though. I'm not convinced that Tyler couldn't fit into the role. He's strong and back in his days at the combine, he weighed in at 323 lbs. I've always viewed him as more of a space-eating tackle anyway.

I agree that a move to a 3-4 would require a dramatic change to the front 7, but the reality is, we're going to need a dramatic change to our front 7 to make a 4-3 work too. To make our 4-3 work, we still need probably two defensive ends and two LBs. And those two defensive ends are probably going to require a lot of money to shore up.

If we're making massive changes to the front 7, we shouldn't leave the 3-4 off the table. I actually think, apart from nose tackle, that our personnel fits pretty well with a 3-4. The only major odd guy out, I think, would be Demorrio Williams and Hali. And arguably, Hali might be able to rotate snaps in at the Falcon position. Besides, who cares. He's up for contract (this year?) anyway.

I don't know if it would be a good idea. I'm just saying it's worth a thought. Many people would argue that it's a hell of a lot easier to rebuild into a 3-4 than it is a 4-3. And just throwing this out there... but if Wade Phillips gets fired, then you have one of the better 3-4 coordinators out on the open market looking for a job.

[chiefzilla1501]

In short, the main reason most teams run a 3-4 is because they know it's really tough to find 2 stud DEs and a lot easier to find good tackles. In fact, I think the Chiefs have three players in McBride, Tyler, and Dorsey that would be terrific fits as 3-4 DEs.

The strength of a 3-4 is largely in the LBs. Look at free agency/the draft. They are both LOADED with talented LBs, and fairly light on DEs. And they're cheaper and can be had later in the draft. And tweener LBs like Merriman and Ware are becoming a hell of a lot easier to find than multi-dimensional DEs like Peppers.


A 350 lb. nose tackle is hard to find, but it's not nearly as hard as finding two stud DEs. I see your point, though. I'm not convinced that Tyler couldn't fit into the role. He's strong and back in his days at the combine, he weighed in at 323 lbs. I've always viewed him as more of a space-eating tackle anyway.

I agree that a move to a 3-4 would require a dramatic change to the front 7, but the reality is, we're going to need a dramatic change to our front 7 to make a 4-3 work too. To make our 4-3 work, we still need probably two defensive ends and two LBs. And those two defensive ends are probably going to require a lot of money to shore up.

If we're making massive changes to the front 7, we shouldn't leave the 3-4 off the table. I actually think, apart from nose tackle, that our personnel fits pretty well with a 3-4. The only major odd guy out, I think, would be Demorrio Williams and Hali. And arguably, Hali might be able to rotate snaps in at the Falcon position. Besides, who cares. He's up for contract (this year?) anyway.

I don't know if it would be a good idea. I'm just saying it's worth a thought. Many people would argue that it's a hell of a lot easier to rebuild into a 3-4 than it is a 4-3. And just throwing this out there... but if Wade Phillips gets fired, then you have one of the better 3-4 coordinators out on the open market looking for a job.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Chris Long isn't even in the same galaxy as Orakpo when it will come to the combine. Orakpo is going to be a workout freak.

Why? Why do people worship that shit as they do? We're talking about a method that helped land Dorsey a #1 Jersey, and which( thankfully )kept Flowers from going sooner.
DCS does NOT place Ultimate Faith in the combine.

Probably but he never had a season like Chris Longs senior year.

Also this doesn't even factor in my absolute disdain of drafting Texas players.

Is it a Mack Brown thing? I've heard people say that his players are developed and coached exquisitely for the college level( which is Brown's job to do, so how can you fault him? ), but that they don't translate well to the NFL.
Or is it just the fact that Texas is America's perineum?
I'm good with either.

[Mecca]

You'll be hard pressed to find another major program that has had more high picks bust and left more players unprepared for the next level than Texas...think of all of their absolutely horrendous top 10 picks...then start going to 1st round the bad to good ratio is not something to be proud of.

[RealSNR]

You'll be hard pressed to find another major program that has had more high picks bust and left more players unprepared for the next level than Texas...think of all of their absolutely horrendous top 10 picks...then start going to 1st round the bad to good ratio is not something to be proud of.You mean like Penn State RBs?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

You'll be hard pressed to find another major program that has had more high picks bust and left more players unprepared for the next level than Texas...think of all of their absolutely horrendous top 10 picks...then start going to 1st round the bad to good ratio is not something to be proud of.

That's kind of what I suspected. Well, on that line of thinking, I can't help but wonder if Beamer might someday consider advancing to the NFL, and if he would be accepted or at least given a shot?

The interviews I've read with his players that have made the cut to the NFL all seem to resonate with the same thing; he knew exactly when and how to push these guys to make them the best they could be. And more to the point; when he had a kid that he knew could go pro, he pulled out all the stops in his own way, and did everything he could to get them there.

[chiefs1111]

You'll be hard pressed to find another major program that has had more high picks bust and left more players unprepared for the next level than Texas...think of all of their absolutely horrendous top 10 picks...then start going to 1st round the bad to good ratio is not something to be proud of.

Like Mike Williams the left tackle that was drafted by Buffalo.. He was a huge bust...

[Mecca]

That's kind of what I suspected. Well, on that line of thinking, I can't help but wonder if Beamer might someday consider advancing to the NFL, and if he would be accepted or at least given a shot?

The interviews I've read with his players that have made the cut to the NFL all seem to resonate with the same thing; he knew exactly when and how to push these guys to make them the best they could be. And more to the point; when he had a kid that he knew could go pro, he pulled out all the stops in his own way, and did everything he could to get them there.

VT doesn't have that many players in the league and most of them aren't that notable...if you start looking at the list they have their fair share of busts like DeAngelo Hall.

Their list is about like you'd expect for VT to be honest.

[mylittlepony]

Like Mike Williams the left tackle that was drafted by Buffalo.. He was a huge bust...

Just like the guy with the same name from USC 3 years later. :D

[Demonpenz]

Why do you idiots want to switch to a 3-4 you would be getting rid of our best young player in Dorsey with that.

sad our best young player isn't very good

[RedThat]

Why do you idiots want to switch to a 3-4 you would be getting rid of our best young player in Dorsey with that.


Yeah so? Who cares?it's easier to build a 3-4 defense. Not like Dorsey is any good anyways.

[CoMoChief]

Worst Mock I've seen yet to date

[Mr. Laz]

I despise DJ at MLB.

why ..... he's almost an idea MLB for a Cover 2 defense.


Cover 2 MLB = OLB-ish guy

he must have the range and ball skills to stay at the LOS and read run/pass and then be able to turn and run to the deep middle zone in pass coverage.

if DJ could learn to catch he would be almost perfect

[MahiMike]

Why draft a QB in the 2nd round? We'd have basically 3 rookie QB's on the squad. Better to get a crusty old veteran to back up Thigpen than anything. Wasted pick there. Go OL in the 1st 2 rounds, then value picks after that.

[Brock]

Why draft a QB in the 2nd round? We'd have basically 3 rookie QB's on the squad.

Even if that were true, so what?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Why? Why do people worship that shit as they do? We're talking about a method that helped land Dorsey a #1 Jersey, and which( thankfully )kept Flowers from going sooner.
DCS does NOT place Ultimate Faith in the combine.



Is it a Mack Brown thing? I've heard people say that his players are developed and coached exquisitely for the college level( which is Brown's job to do, so how can you fault him? ), but that they don't translate well to the NFL.
Or is it just the fact that Texas is America's perineum?
I'm good with either.

Dorsey wasn't drafted for his combine #s. If that would have happened, Kentwan Balmer would have been the first DT taken.

It's about upside. When you see a guy like Orakpo who can bench 515, run a 4.6, and who by all accounts is a pretty sharp guy, you see that he has the tools that your coaches can mold into a dominant player.

[Zouk]

The more I read people I trust - the more I'm moving to Michael Johnson over Brian Orakpo. Johnson is a converted tight end that hasn't played his best ball yet, but the ceiling is so high on him.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Yeah so? Who cares?it's easier to build a 3-4 defense. Not like Dorsey is any good anyways.

Idiot.

A 3-4 NT is the hardest position to find in the NFL.

Casey Hampton, Kris Jenkins, Jamaal Williams, Vince Wilfork. Those are pretty much the only NTs in the league worth a shit.

Us moving to a 3-4 is 10x dumber than moving Albert to guard.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

The more I read people I trust - the more I'm moving to Michael Johnson over Brian Orakpo. Johnson is a converted tight end that hasn't played his best ball yet, but the ceiling is so high on him.

Yeah, I just love college DEs that can't produce for shit. If you want a converted offensive player, take the kid from Cincinnatti. If you want a freakish speed rusher, take Everette Brown.

[eazyb81]

Yeah, I just love college DEs that can't produce for shit. If you want a converted offensive player, take the kid from Cincinnatti. If you want a freakish speed rusher, take Everette Brown.

Orakpo hardly has elite production when you compare him to past DEs that were drafted in the top ten. Due to his injury last year, he's essentially a one year wonder.

[Zouk]

Yeah, I just love college DEs that can't produce for shit. If you want a converted offensive player, take the kid from Cincinnatti. If you want a freakish speed rusher, take Everette Brown.

That's what I would have said a month ago too. His production is not elite - but 7 sacks and 15 tackles for loss is not terrible either. It's just the jaw-dropping athleticism and wingspan. He really looks like he could be Julius Peppers once he adds more weight. This is a guy that's playing gunner right now on the punt team. And he's not a lazy underachiever, just a raw young player learning the position. Rick Gosselin is really sure he's the #1 defender on boards right now and he has great sources. We'll see.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

That's what I would have said a month ago too. His production is not elite - but 7 sacks and 15 tackles for loss is not terrible either. It's just the jaw-dropping athleticism and wingspan. He really looks like he could be Julius Peppers once he adds more weight. This is a guy that's playing gunner right now on the punt team. And he's not a lazy underachiever, just a raw young player learning the position. Rick Gosselin is really sure he's the #1 defender on boards right now and he has great sources. We'll see.

He could also be Mike Mamula.

[Simply Red]

He could also be Mike Mamula.

Is that Donald Trump's car?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Orakpo hardly has elite production when you compare him to past DEs that were drafted in the top ten. Due to his injury last year, he's essentially a one year wonder.

If he didn't bang up his knee this year, he's looking at close to 16-18 sacks.

Chris Long was a one year wonder when it came to production, and he went #2 overall.

That argument has no legs.

[beach tribe]

I say Orakpo. Guys like Johnson just look the part, and I just wouldn't pick a guy that high on potential alone. Orakpo can get after the QB. I know this sounds crazy, and I am in no way saying he's on that level, but Orakpo's physical stature, and movements remind me of DT.

[RedThat]

Idiot.

A 3-4 NT is the hardest position to find in the NFL.

Casey Hampton, Kris Jenkins, Jamaal Williams, Vince Wilfork. Those are pretty much the only NTs in the league worth a shit.

Us moving to a 3-4 is 10x dumber than moving Albert to guard.

I like the 3-4. It shares a great deal of recent success around the league lately. Have you noticed that some of the top teams with the better defenses, even the teams that have won bowls run a 3-4? Some of the better defenses run a 3-4. It's very successful.
You're right NT is the hardest position to find but once you find a massive 350lb space eater who is mentally and physically tough has good stamina, durability, lateral quickness and has the ability to play with good technique you've pretty much set the foundation for that defense. Ted Washington was an example of a great NT that excelled in a 3-4. Shaun Rogers was a great pickup for Cleveland and excels in a 3-4. i wanted the Chiefs to get him. But he can play both 4-3 and 3-4. He is an example of DL that is versitile and Its just a matter of finding a DT that is versitile? Really. i think there are DTs around the league that play in a 4-3 that could also play in a 3-4?

Imo, It's a lot harder to find good defensive lineman to play in a 4-3 then it is to find good defensive lineman to play in a 3-4. and I also think good linebackers in a 3-4 are not hard to find. I'd just rather prefer the basics of a 3-4 then i would a 4-3. I just love the fact that the Linemans job in a 3-4 is to protect the linebackers and just to eat up space and control their gaps well enough freeing up the linebackers. I'd rather have my LBers make plays. Its more of the speed, passrush ability, and their to ability to play in space that im fascinated with. Space of course that is created by the Dlineman. And I think the Chiefs do have DT's on their team as of right now that would do well as DE's in a 3-4.

[eazyb81]

If he didn't bang up his knee this year, he's looking at close to 16-18 sacks.

Chris Long was a one year wonder when it came to production, and he went #2 overall.

That argument has no legs.

It's the second year in a row he's been banged up (which brings up another concern) and his injury does nothing to dispute the fact that his production pales in comparison to past DEs that were drafted in the top ten.

Solid DE, but hardly elite.

[RustShack]

Our defense is the worst in the NFL, theres no better time to switch to a 3-4 defense. Only problem, Herman Edwards. Another thing we just drafted Dorsey last year, soo that would be a waste unless he could become a 3-4 DE...

[OnTheWarpath15]

It was reported yesterday that Nate Davis is returning for his senior season, and that has been his plan all year.

FWIW.

[Mecca]

I say Orakpo. Guys like Johnson just look the part, and I just wouldn't pick a guy that high on potential alone. Orakpo can get after the QB. I know this sounds crazy, and I am in no way saying he's on that level, but Orakpo's physical stature, and movements remind me of DT.

Orakpo is really nothing like DT....if anything he's probably like a stronger slower Neil Smith.

If you want a guy like DT start thinking Everette Brown or George Selvie.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

It was reported yesterday that Nate Davis is returning for his senior season, and that has been his plan all year.

FWIW.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/XNvo3-aRwEc&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/XNvo3-aRwEc&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[RedThat]

Our defense is the worst in the NFL, theres no better time to switch to a 3-4 defense. Only problem, Herman Edwards. Another thing we just drafted Dorsey last year, soo that would be a waste unless he could become a 3-4 DE...

I actually think Dorsey would do well in a 3-4 as a DE.

I think Boone would be ok too as a DE in a 3-4.

My main reason for thinking that is both have the size no doubt to play as 3-4DE's.

Dorsey imo is not a passrusher. But he does have good lateral quickness and athleticism for a big man and that a bonus for a 3-4 DE. He relies more on power and strength in his game right now then anything else and I think he has the ability to control gaps well enough. He does draw double teams which is good. He's just not that disruptive force that can push n penetrate his way through to get into the back field to blow plays up as most expected him to be. But as a 3-4 DE that's ok you don't have to do that.

But with Herm here I agree no way he switches to a 3-4 D.