Go on the record: Who do you want as GM and Head Coach?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Time to make some decisions, folks.

No lists, pick ONE GM.

PLEASE make this realistic. A current GM making a lateral move is not realistic.

Also: Pick a HC that you think would be a realistic choice of your GM.

Post bios if you wish.



I'll start:


GM: Eric DeCosta, 37, Director Of College Scouting, Baltimore Ravens.

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/People/Staff/Player_Personnel/Eric_DeCosta.aspx


HC: Rex Ryan, 46, Assistant Head Coach/Defensive Coordinator, Baltimore Ravens.


http://www.baltimoreravens.com/People/Coaches/Rex_Ryan.aspx

[Mecca]

Chris Polian and Jim Caldwell

[Sure-Oz]

How about "And why?" with that please...

[Mr. Kotter]

Schottenheimer as GM

Cowher as coach

[catfish307]

Hope Cowher's name come's up as coach

[MGRS13]

Chris Polian and Jim Caldwell

I really like Chris Polian but am afraid he would be inclined to keep Herm. Seems Dungy would give him some song and dance about herm being a "great guy".

[Bowser]

Chris Polian and Steve Spagnola(sp?)



Precisely, I want a GM that is young and from a successful program, and I want a head coach that attacks on BOTH sides of the ball.

[Mecca]

Schottenheimer as GM

Cowher as coach

I'm going to kill you....:)

[The Bad Guy]

GM:

Chris Polian. Understands how to build through the draft from watching his father. That Colts team keeps losing key players, but it doesn't matter because they have tons of depth.

HC:
Josh McDaniels (without Matt Cassell)

The Patriots offense lost the best player in the NFL and he really has called some great games.

[unothadeal]

MOOCHY!!!! /deion sanders

[Mecca]

I really like Chris Polian but am afraid he would be inclined to keep Herm. Seems Dungy would give him some song and dance about herm being a "great guy".

I don't think Chris Polian would be dumb enough to tie his future with the Chiefs to a guy with Herms record.

[Bowser]

GM:

Chris Polian. Understands how to build through the draft from watching his father. That Colts team keeps losing key players, but it doesn't matter because they have tons of depth.

HC:
Josh McDaniels (without Matt Cassell)

The Patriots offense lost the best player in the NFL and he really has called some great games.


Or this.

[chiefzilla1501]

Don't know enough about GM candidates to say, but Cowher or Spagnola would be amazing as HC's.

[OnTheWarpath15]

How about "And why?" with that please...

Me, or Mecca?

If me, read the DeCosta bio, and look at Baltimore's drafts - they are rock solid.

And Rex Ryan? Dear God, I hope I don't have to SELL anyone on Rex fucking Ryan...

[The Bad Guy]

Steve Spagnuolo would be an excellent hire as well. The Giants defense brings more pressure than a double anal porn scene.

[Mecca]

Polian is far and away my favorite Gm candidate, now if he were to get hired I'd expect him to want to have an offense something like the one in Indy which is completely anti Herm.

[Sure-Oz]

Me, or Mecca?

If me, read the DeCosta bio, and look at Baltimore's drafts - they are rock solid.

And Rex Ryan? Dear God, I hope I don't have to SELL anyone on Rex ****ing Ryan...

No, i meant as in general for the thread for everyone who responds.

[Mecca]

Me, or Mecca?

If me, read the DeCosta bio, and look at Baltimore's drafts - they are rock solid.

And Rex Ryan? Dear God, I hope I don't have to SELL anyone on Rex fucking Ryan...

Someone will get upset cause he's been mostly a 3-4 guy.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Chris Polian and Steve Spagnola(sp?)



Precisely, I want a GM that is young and from a successful program, and I want a head coach that attacks on BOTH sides of the ball.

GM:

Chris Polian. Understands how to build through the draft from watching his father. That Colts team keeps losing key players, but it doesn't matter because they have tons of depth.

HC:
Josh McDaniels (without Matt Cassell)

The Patriots offense lost the best player in the NFL and he really has called some great games.



Guys-

Do these GM's and HC have any connection, or are you just listing guys separately that you happen to like?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Polian is far and away my favorite Gm candidate, now if he were to get hired I'd expect him to want to have an offense something like the one in Indy which is completely anti Herm.

As long as he doesn't bring a defense like Indy's with him.

Hello, 2003 Chiefs.

[Skip Towne]

I want to Peter Principle some doosh co-ordinator who then will pick his brother in law as the HC.

[Bowser]

Steve Spagnuolo would be an excellent hire as well. The Giants defense brings more pressure than a double anal porn scene.

LMAO

[MGRS13]

I don't think Chris Polian would be dumb enough to tie his future with the Chiefs to a guy with Herms record.

I'd like to think thats true but he just seems to close to the Dungy-Herm-tampa family. He was my first choice untill I started to worry about that connection, although surely his dad is wise enough to point out that if you take Manning/Moore away from Indy Dungy goes nowhere. I don't know that connection just gives me the hebby jebbys.

[Mecca]

I'd like to think thats true but he just seems to close to the Dungy-Herm-tampa family. He was my first choice untill I started to worry about that connection, although surely his dad is wise enough to point out that if you take Manning/Moore away from Indy Dungy goes nowhere. I don't know that connection just gives me the hebby jebbys.

I'm also sure he's aware being there that Tony Dungy wouldn't be remotely the coach he was if Manning didn't have the sack to break him early on. Manning stood up to him and made him change.

[Bowser]

Guys-

Do these GM's and HC have any connection, or are you just listing guys separately that you happen to like?

I just listed the two guys that are, imo, the "hot prospects".

[The Franchise]

GM: Eric DeCosta, 37, Director Of College Scouting, Baltimore Ravens.

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/People/Staff/Player_Personnel/Eric_DeCosta.aspx


HC: Rex Ryan, 46, Assistant Head Coach/Defensive Coordinator, Baltimore Ravens.


http://www.baltimoreravens.com/People/Coaches/Rex_Ryan.aspx

This.

Eric DeCosta as GM and....

Jim Schwartz as HC

http://www.titansonline.com/team/coaches/staff.php?PRKey=3

That guy is one retarded looking mofo though.

[Mecca]

I just listed the two guys that are, imo, the "hot prospects".

I think the point with why he said that is most GM's will hire a head coach they are personally familiar with.

[The Bad Guy]

Guys-

Do these GM's and HC have any connection, or are you just listing guys separately that you happen to like?

I don't think you really have to have a connection to someone to hire them as HC's.

The Patriots guy didn't have one to Mike Smith. Ozzie Newsome didn't have one to John Harbaugh.

I think McDaniels and Spagnuolo are 2 of the best coordinators in the NFL.

[RedThat]

Eric DaCosta

[chiefzilla1501]

Me, or Mecca?

If me, read the DeCosta bio, and look at Baltimore's drafts - they are rock solid.

And Rex Ryan? Dear God, I hope I don't have to SELL anyone on Rex ****ing Ryan...

I have some concerns. For one thing, does this require us to move to a 3-4 (I argued this in another thread that it's not a terrible idea).

Here's what concerns me most. I think there are a lot of awesome coaches who just weren't meant to ever be head coach material. As a head coach, you become more removed from the X's and O's and it becomes more important how you manage your staff and players. I just see Ryan as a guy his players will learn to hate. As a coordinator, you can rip apart your players and be the jerk. As a coach, you also have to be their friend. I'm not sure if Ryan has that in him. Also, as we learned from Gregg Williams, you have to be able to manage the ball from both sides of the ball, so the head coach has to be cool enough to realize that he can't control everything. Too often head coaches try to become too involved in the side of the ball they have too limited experience dealing with.

My sense is that Ryan is a football genius and yet you rarely ever hear his name come up for consideration from most teams, which leads me to believe that other GMs might be on the same wavelength as me.

[jidar]

I don't know enough to have an opinion.

[Skip Towne]

I don't know enough to have an opinion.

That didn't stop all these other douches.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Someone will get upset cause he's been mostly a 3-4 guy.

Let 'em get upset.

That's one of the positives about Ryan. He runs a hybrid defense that includes aspects of the 4-3, 3-4 and 4-6.

Baltimore was running a 4-3 earlier this decade, and made the switch.

I'm not even sure we'd HAVE to make the switch, but if we were ever going to do it, now is the time, while we're at rock-fucking-bottom.

[chiefzilla1501]

I don't think you really have to have a connection to someone to hire them as HC's.

The Patriots guy didn't have one to Mike Smith. Ozzie Newsome didn't have one to John Harbaugh.

I think McDaniels and Spagnuolo are 2 of the best coordinators in the NFL.

McDaniels is terrific, but I'm slightly concerned about the Bellichick effect. We've seen already from Charlie Weiss and Romeo Crennel that maybe Bellichick controls a lot more of the gameplanning on both sides of the ball than we realize. I might question if McDaniels is a product of a really good coach, seeing that Bellichick has gotten similar results from both Mangini and Weiss with the Patriots.

Don't know enough about McDaniels to say either way, but it could be something that makes you pause.

[Bowser]

I think the point with why he said that is most GM's will hire a head coach they are personally familiar with.

Sure, and there is reasoning....

Polian knows Peyton who is Eli's brother that plays on a team that Spags coaches on. Where the fuck is Kevin Bacon when you need him?

[OnTheWarpath15]

I don't think you really have to have a connection to someone to hire them as HC's.

The Patriots guy didn't have one to Mike Smith. Ozzie Newsome didn't have one to John Harbaugh.

I think McDaniels and Spagnuolo are 2 of the best coordinators in the NFL.

Not calling you out, just asking.

[Mecca]

Let 'em get upset.

That's one of the positives about Ryan. He runs a hybrid defense that includes aspects of the 4-3, 3-4 and 4-6.

Baltimore was running a 4-3 earlier this decade, and made the switch.

I'm not even sure we'd HAVE to make the switch, but if we were ever going to do it, now is the time, while we're at rock-fucking-bottom.

But you'll ruin Dorsey man! I'm not being serious I just had to do that...if we were to play 3-4 nearly every front 7 player on this team would need to be let go.

[OnTheWarpath15]

But you'll ruin Dorsey man! I'm not being serious I just had to do that...if we were to play 3-4 nearly every front 7 player on this team would need to be let go.

That's the thing.

The Ravens don't run a straight 3-4 now as it is.

Ryan has experience in the 4-3, 3-4 and 4-6. We wouldn't HAVE to make any changes at all. If he did choose to make the change, so be it - now's as good a time as any.

And for as much as I bash DJ, I'd love to see what Ryan could do with him as a OLB.

[crazycoffey]

Me, or Mecca?

If me, read the DeCosta bio, and look at Baltimore's drafts - they are rock solid.

And Rex Ryan? Dear God, I hope I don't have to SELL anyone on Rex ****ing Ryan...

I think you wouldn't have to sell that one to anyone, not even herm himself.....

[TrickyNicky]

Bill Kuharich - GM

Al Saunders - Head Coach

Print 'em

[OnTheWarpath15]

Bill Kuharich - GM

Al Saunders - Head Coach

Print 'em

ROFL

[chiefzilla1501]

But you'll ruin Dorsey man! I'm not being serious I just had to do that...if we were to play 3-4 nearly every front 7 player on this team would need to be let go.

That's not true. I actually think that our linemen would excel in a 3-4. I think Turk is the exact mold of a DE you look for and Dorsey would also make an excellent DE.

The reason most teams run a 3-4 is because they are legitimately worried that it is too, too hard to find difference-making DEs. So what a 3-4 does is essentially put two defensive tackles on the line with a nose tackle in the middle.

Given that the strength of the Chiefs, in my opinion, is the corners and the defensive tackles (Tank, Dorsey, and... yes, Turk for a 3-4), it allows us to build on the right strengths. The next step is finding a nose tackle and shoring up the linebackers. The nose tackle is harder to find, but LBs are easy and they are easily available, and it is something we need to upgrade anyway.

As I put it in another thread... regardless of whether we run a 3-4 or a 4-3, we'll probably need to make some major changes and probably the same amount of major changes.

[RedThat]

Hey I changed my mind I want Matt Millen as our GM.

And then I want Rich Kotite as our head coach!!!

[Mecca]

We don't have rush backers for a 3-4....and if anyone suggest Tamba Hali as a rush backer I'll back hand them.

It's not a huge deal because we need a bunch of new front 7 players and pass rushers either way.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

We don't have Haloti Ngata. He's one of the five most valuable defensive players in the league. He lets that defense do anything it wants because he's such a friggin monster.

[The Bad Guy]

I would also be for the scenario that OTW said. Ryan could help get Suggs here.

[OnTheWarpath15]

We don't have rush backers for a 3-4....and if anyone suggest Tamba Hali as a rush backer I'll back hand them.

It's not a huge deal because we need a bunch of new front 7 players and pass rushers either way.

So you draft them and sign them in FA. This isn't a short term deal, we're looking long-term.

And like you said, out front 7 needs an overhaul anyway.

Now is the time.

[Mecca]

We'd have to find a nose tackle, that would probably be the biggest thing.

[OnTheWarpath15]

We don't have Haloti Ngata. He's one of the five most valuable defensive players in the league. He lets that defense do anything it wants because he's such a friggin monster.

Doesn't mean we couldn't acquire someone like him. It's not gonna be perfect right out of the box.

But like I said, if your going to do it, now is the time, since you need to blow up the front 7 anyway.

And again, Ryan has experience in the 4-3 and 4-6 as well.

Bringing him in does not guarantee the 3-4 being implemented. He'd take a look at the current personnel, and move forward accordingly.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Doesn't mean we couldn't acquire someone like him. It's not gonna be perfect right out of the box.

But like I said, if your going to do it, now is the time, since you need to blow up the front 7 anyway.

And again, Ryan has experience in the 4-3 and 4-6 as well.

Bringing him in does not guarantee the 3-4 being implemented. He'd take a look at the current personnel, and move forward accordingly.

Is it worth it to you to basically give up on Dorsey after one year?

[KChiefs1]

GM - Eric DeCosta
HC - in this order:

• Bill Cowher -- If, as expected, he chooses to peel off his TV persona and end his two-year hiatus from the sideline, the former Steelers coach will essentially have his pick of the openings. Cleveland would roll out the red carpet for him, and Detroit could be an intriguing possibility as well.

• Steve Spagnuolo -- The Giants defensive coordinator will be in high demand for a second-consecutive offseason, especially if New York rides the wave all the way to another Super Bowl appearance. St. Louis is one team known to be in the market for a defensive-oriented head coach.

• Jim Schwartz -- After strong interviews last offseason in Washington, Miami and Atlanta, Schwartz is nearly assured of parlaying the success of Tennessee's defense into a No. 1 job this time around. He's smart, articulate, extremely well prepared, and his coaching pedigree includes having worked for both Bill Belichick and Jeff Fisher.

• Josh McDaniels -- The Patriots 32-year-old offensive coordinator has only enhanced his résumé this season, proving he can craft successful game plans with or without league MVP Tom Brady at quarterback. It might take just the right situation for McDaniels to leave Foxboro, but I could see the Chargers, led by Patriots-envying general manager A.J. Smith, being an enticing option.

• Jason Garrett -- No surprise here, but if the curtain falls on the Wade Phillips era in Dallas, Cowboys owner Jerry Jones will toss the keys to Garrett, who he kept away from both Baltimore and Atlanta last offseason with just such a plan of succession in mind.

[Bowser]

I want no part of Jason Garrett here.

[OnTheWarpath15]

We'd have to find a nose tackle, that would probably be the biggest thing.

Tank Johnson is a FA.

He's not a long-term solution, but it'd be a start.

[wazu]

I don't know enough to have an opinion.

I feel the same way as far as specifics, but have some basic rules I hope Clark follows. So far he has said he is going to follow all the things I had for GM.

My Thoughts:

GM

1. Nobody from within the organization
2. No coaches who want to become GMs (a la Schottenheimer)

Coach

1. Search the pro ranks for a top assistant (like McDaniels)
2. Cowher is the only "retread" that sounds good at all.
3. Pick somebody smarter than Shanahan. (Unless it's Cowher. I don't think he's smarter than Shanahan, but he's good anyway.)

[chiefzilla1501]

We don't have rush backers for a 3-4....and if anyone suggest Tamba Hali as a rush backer I'll back hand them.

It's not a huge deal because we need a bunch of new front 7 players and pass rushers either way.

Exactly We need two new pass rushers anyway, and rush backers are a hell of a lot easier to find than a stud DE who can both rush the passer AND stop the run AND guard the pass.

[chiefzilla1501]

Is it worth it to you to basically give up on Dorsey after one year?

You wouldn't. Dorsey would do just fine as a 3-4 DE.

[RedThat]

We'd have to find a nose tackle, that would probably be the biggest thing.

Ahhh I say Just frikk'n keep feeding those guys some sick diets.

Its not hard for a Dlineman to gain weight?

All we need is a nice 370 pound pig.

They gotta feed one of those guys Ron Edwards, Alphonso boone, or even Glenn Dorsey? they're all pig potential.

Simple eat 6 meals a day.

Breakfast get up eat a carton of eggs with a pack of bacon. with a loaf of bread and a bucket of orange juice.

then for snacks, 1 dozen of krispy creme donuts with a 2 litres of pop

lunch, 1 whole turkey with a bucket of potatoes and 2 bowls of salad. AND a 6 pack of beer.

Then snacks again, 1 dozen of krispy creme donuts

dinner, 75-100 chicken wings with a bucket of fries

snacks again, 5 bags of chips

1 whole chocolate cake before bed

follow this for a 1 month and they'll put on 30 pounds easy. Thats they gotta do. And were worried about finding a NT? Come on now!

[RedThat]

You wouldn't. Dorsey would do just fine as a 3-4 DE.

i think so too

[Direckshun]

I'm okay with DeCosta, but Polian is exactly where I am at all times. There is no better way to embrace the man's model than by picking him up personally.

As for HC... Rex Ryan is not a good fit for me, because he's still primarily a 3-4 guy. I prefer the 4-3 over the 3-4, and guys who have to make the transition from the latter to the former can struggle. And I think it would simply take too many years to transition this defense to the 3-4. What are we talking about -- a minimum of four years, at LEAST. I know Ryan's worked with multiple defenses, but he prefers the 3-4, he's worked with it primarily for years, so he's out for me.

McDaniels is overrated, as I believe much of the Patriots front office is, because that whole organization has made a career out of unusual personnel moves that are simply too risky to work for us.

Steve Spagnuolo is my favorite HC prospect right now. The pass rush that his expertise has engineered is one of the top three in the league.

I'm willing to have sex with my mother if it meant grabbing Polian and Spagnuolo as a result, but I'm happy enough with Polian, if we can somehow work him over here. Yet another reason why I support keeping Herm for a little while -- his relationship with Dungy just might make this franchise attractive to Polian.

[The Franchise]

GM - Eric DeCosta
HC - in this order:

• Jim Schwartz -- After strong interviews last offseason in Washington, Miami and Atlanta, Schwartz is nearly assured of parlaying the success of Tennessee's defense into a No. 1 job this time around. He's smart, articulate, extremely well prepared, and his coaching pedigree includes having worked for both Bill Belichick and Jeff Fisher.


This.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Is it worth it to you to basically give up on Dorsey after one year?

Do you honestly think he'd fail at DE in a 3-4?

Play him on the left side, like Baltimore does Pryce and Douglas.

AGAIN:

Ryan has experience in a 43, 34 and 46.

That is just one reason why he's an attractive candidate. If he feels the core of the current front 7 couldn't make the switch, we'd run a 43. People are making this a WAY bigger issue than it is.

[banyon]

GM

1. Pioli
2. Decosta

HC

1. Stoops
2. Ryan

DC

1. Ron Rivera

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Do you honestly think he'd fail at DE in a 3-4?

Play him on the left side, like Baltimore does Pryce and Douglas.

AGAIN:

Ryan has experience in a 43, 34 and 46.

That is just one reason why he's an attractive candidate. If he feels the core of the current front 7 couldn't make the switch, we'd run a 43. People are making this a WAY bigger issue than it is.

You are moving a #5 selection from the second most important position on defense to arguably the least important position on the defense. He's short and has short arms.

I think it's a horrendous idea that marginalizes him even more than if we drafted a tackle and moved Albert to G.

[TrickyNicky]

Ok for real:

GM - Chris Polian (although we cant go wrong with DeCosta)

Coach - Sean McDermott

[OnTheWarpath15]

You are moving a #5 selection from the second most important position on defense to arguably the least important position on the defense. He's short and has short arms.

I think it's a horrendous idea that marginalizes him even more than if we drafted a tackle and moved Albert to G.

So, take a less attractive HC candidate, that impacts the entire TEAM, (but runs a 43 only) instead of moving a player to a less valuable position.

Got it.

And for the ELEVENTY-BILLIONTH TIME:

Ryan has experience running a 43 and 46 as well. You guys are acting like he'd come in here and try to jam a round peg in to a square hole.

If he came and ran a 43, I'm fine with that.

If he came here and decided that a 34 was in the best interest of the team long-term, then I'm fine with that as well.

He could come here and run the motherfucking Tampa 2 for all I care, as long as this defense becomes a solid, Top 10 unit again.


As a HEAD COACH, the running of a defense would be left to the DC anyway - Christ, maybe he gets his brother to come to KC. Or anyone else who runs a 43. People are blowing this ridiculously out of proportion.

[eazyb81]

I'm not going to say one name, at least at this point, as I think many options would make sense. A great talent evaluator from an organization that excels in player evaluation is my criteria.

However, I want a NEW GM and a NEW head coach. Get away from the good 'ol boy network of recycling past failures, and get some fresh blood in here.

[Rausch]

GM: no idea.

HC: Cowher...

[wazu]

I'm willing to have sex with my mother if it meant grabbing Polian and Spagnuolo as a result...

Let's be honest, this isn't about Polian or Spagnuolo, is it?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

So, take a less attractive HC candidate, that impacts the entire TEAM, (but runs a 43 only) instead of moving a player to a less valuable position.

Got it.

And for the ELEVENTY-BILLIONTH TIME:

Ryan has experience running a 43 and 46 as well. You guys are acting like he'd come in here and try to jam a round peg in to a square hole.

If he came and ran a 43, I'm fine with that.

If he came here and decided that a 34 was in the best interest of the team long-term, then I'm fine with that as well.

He could come here and run the motherfucking Tampa 2 for all I care, as long as this defense becomes a solid, Top 10 unit again.

Why are you even positing this? There is no way anyone could look at this team and claim that a 3-4 is in its best long term interests.

3-4 NT is the hardest position in the NFL to find bar none. We have no talent in the front 7 designed for a 3-4.

This is the exact opposite of what Herm did in New York...took a veteran team with great cover corners and a solid NT and turned it into a Tampa 2 team, and the defense got progressively worse because of it.

If you want to run the 3-4 as a look in a certain package, fine, but we should absolutely not hire anyone, DC or HC, who is a 3-4 disciple unless you are 100% certain that Dorsey is a bust, and there is no way you can know that right now.

And he's not "a player". He's a top 5 draft pick. This is about as intelligent as drafting Sam Bradford and having him run the Al Davis offense.

[Buehler445]

On the books:

Polian - Prolly not going to happen, but it's who I want.

McDaniel - IF his head is screwed on straight. IF.... There is a possibility that he thinks his shit don't stink and everything he does will work. If that's the case fuck him and find someone else. But if his head is on straight, lets do it.

[DeezNutz]

I'm willing to have sex with my mother if it meant grabbing Polian and Spagnuolo as a result.

http://http://blog.pennlive.com/thrive/large_melfi.jpg

Ok. Why do I keep getting a red x when trying to link an image? Anyone?

[PriestMVP31]

GM: DeCosta
Head Coach: Spagnuolo

[Rausch]

Let's be honest, this isn't about Polian or Spagnuolo, is it?

ROFL

[SAUTO]

Chris Polian and Jim Caldwell

Isnt caldwell in line to be successor to dungy?

[Brock]

I'm willing to have sex with my mother if it meant grabbing Polian and Spagnuolo as a result,.

No. Please no.

[the Talking Can]

Chris Polian and Steve Spagnola(sp?)



Precisely, I want a GM that is young and from a successful program, and I want a head coach that attacks on BOTH sides of the ball.

this is my favorite combo....but i don't know enough about any of the gms to argue that position...

i just want new blood everywhere, after that there are no guarantees...

[wazu]

...we should absolutely not hire anyone, DC or HC, who is a 3-4 disciple unless you are 100% certain that Dorsey is a bust, and there is no way you can know that right now.

Disagree. All things being equal, that might put the decision over the top, but we need the best coach we can possibly find. I am guessing Dorsey could play a role in that somewhere, but if he can't, then don't gamble the whole franchise by picking somebody just because your underperforming rookie might be good some day if a coach runs the right system.

[Brock]

I like McDaniels, I'm just not sure he's seasoned enough to take on an entire team. Spag, on the other hand, I'm sure is.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Why are you even positing this? There is no way anyone could look at this team and claim that a 3-4 is in its best long term interests.

3-4 NT is the hardest position in the NFL to find bar none. We have no talent in the front 7 designed for a 3-4.

This is the exact opposite of what Herm did in New York...took a veteran team with great cover corners and a solid NT and turned it into a Tampa 2 team, and the defense got progressively worse because of it.

If you want to run the 3-4 as a look in a certain package, fine, but we should absolutely not hire anyone, DC or HC, who is a 3-4 disciple unless you are 100% certain that Dorsey is a bust, and there is no way you can know that right now.

And he's not "a player". He's a top 5 draft pick. This is about as intelligent as drafting Sam Bradford and having him run the Al Davis offense.



You should get your resume to Clark quick, because you fucking know EVERYTHING - yet your reading comprehension really needs work.

What part of "experienced in 43, 34 and 46" do you not understand? I've only mentioned it FOUR or FIVE times.

He worked for the Ravens AS they made the switch from 43 to 34. IIRC, they ran the 43 under him at OU in the late 90's.

If you don't like the guy as a candidate, just say so.

But to claim he's a 34 "disciple" and is inflexible to run any other defense just because he runs a 34 NOW makes you look like a jackass.

I'm not sure WTF happened to you recently, but you've gone from solid, open-minded football talk, to know-it-all-cocksucker in a matter of a few months.

[FringeNC]

GM: Pioli or Polian
HC: McDaniels, Garrett or Spag. [Garrett won't come here, though]

(Hot-shot coordinators often don't pan out, though, but it's worth the risk.)

The main thing is just to clear out the not-to-lose stench at Arrowhead. Please no one in any capacity who talks about a QB as a game manager, and has nightmares of a QB throwing an interception.

[Buehler445]

The main thing is just to clear out the not-to-lose stench at Arrowhead. Please no one in any capacity who talks about a QB as a game manager, and has nightmares of a QB throwing an interception.

QFT

[wazu]

I'm not sure WTF happened to you recently, but you've gone from solid, open-minded football talk, to know-it-all-cocksucker in a matter of a few months.

I think it's more likely that you have a very advanced form of amnesia.

[Micjones]

GM - Chris Polian
HC - Josh McDaniels

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Disagree. All things being equal, that might put the decision over the top, but we need the best coach we can possibly find. I am guessing Dorsey could play a role in that somewhere, but if he can't, then don't gamble the whole franchise by picking somebody just because your underperforming rookie might be good some day if a coach runs the right system.

#1) He's not underperforming
#2) The last thing we need is another system only disciple that eschews the talent on hand for his ideal defense. That's how we went from 15th to 32nd

Hell, depending on the season, Belichick has used a 4-3 or 3-4. He even used a prowl formation in certain games (against Bledsoe, and against the Bills in SB XXV).

If you were a SF Giants fan, would you want the Giants to hire a manager who installs a pitch to contact philosophy and tells Tim Lincecum to start throwing nothing but two seamers? If you are a Cavs fan, would you want the coach to install the motion offense where LeBron becomes a cog rather than the driver of the O?

Why would you minimize the talent you already have on hand just because you are married to a scheme that is no more or less successful than any other scheme on defense?

It's myopic.

[Reerun_KC]

GM: Pioli or Polian
HC: McDaniels, Garrett or Spag. [Garrett won't come here, though]

(Hot-shot coordinators often don't pan out, though, but it's worth the risk.)

The main thing is just to clear out the not-to-lose stench at Arrowhead. Please no one in any capacity who talks about a QB as a game manager, and has nightmares of a QB throwing an interception.

Can argue with that...

Polian
Spag

Might be a new breath of life for this franchise...

[BigRedChief]

GM: Pioli, he laughs at us then Polian

HC: Jeff Fisher, he laughs at us then Ryan or Sprag is okay and I'd have NP with Cohwer either. He's old school but he did change and his teams were always competitive no matter their talent level.

[The Franchise]

GM: Pioli, he laughs at us then Polian

HC: Jeff Fisher, he laughs at us then Ryan or Sprag is okay and I'd have NP with Cohwer either. He's old school but he did change and his teams were always competitive no matter their talent level.

What makes you think that Fisher is going to come over here?

[OnTheWarpath15]

#1) He's not underperforming
#2) The last thing we need is another system only disciple that eschews the talent on hand for his ideal defense. That's how we went from 15th to 32nd

Hell, depending on the season, Belichick has used a 4-3 or 3-4. He even used a prowl formation in certain games (against Bledsoe, and against the Bills in SB XXV).

If you were a SF Giants fan, would you want the Giants to hire a manager who installs a pitch to contact philosophy and tells Tim Lincecum to start throwing nothing but two seamers? If you are a Cavs fan, would you want the coach to install the motion offense where LeBron becomes a cog rather than the driver of the O?

Why would you minimize the talent you already have on hand just because you are married to a scheme that is no more or less successful than any other scheme on defense?

It's myopic.



Seriously. I'm done.

He's not MARRIED to a scheme.

He runs a 34 hybrid NOW.

He's run a 43 in the PAST.

This isn't that difficult to understand.

[BigRedChief]

What makes you think that Fisher is going to come over here?
The question wasn't which one was likely to come here. It was who would we want to be our HC.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

You should get your resume to Clark quick, because you fucking know EVERYTHING - yet your reading comprehension really needs work.

What part of "experienced in 43, 34 and 46" do you not understand? I've only mentioned it FOUR or FIVE times.

He worked for the Ravens AS they made the switch from 43 to 34. IIRC, they ran the 43 under him at OU in the late 90's.

If you don't like the guy as a candidate, just say so.

But to claim he's a 34 "disciple" and is inflexible to run any other defense just because he runs a 34 NOW makes you look like a jackass.

I'm not sure WTF happened to you recently, but you've gone from solid, open-minded football talk, to know-it-all-cocksucker in a matter of a few months.

Yeah, I must have not posted to you that "you can run a 3-4 look in a certain scheme" but it shouldn't be a part of the entire package.

Yet, despite this, I'm not acknowledging anything you say or paying attention?

And yet, you go on defending the concept of a 3-4, when it's plain as fucking day that no one in their right mind would implement it with the talent we have here, unless you want to flush a top 5 draft pick one year into his career. And yet, despite saying that it's just part of a system he uses, you claim that Dorsey would work as a 3-4 end, despite the fact that you supposedly aren't saying that this is a possibility.

I'm not the one calling people a cocksucker because I disagree with them, either.

You do this shit with Mecca all the time in draft threads. Yeah, I'm abrasive and I think I know a lot, but I'm also not hypocritical enough to call someone out on that when it's one of my biggest personality characteristics, as it is with you.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Seriously. I'm done.

He's not MARRIED to a scheme.

He runs a 34 hybrid NOW.

He's run a 43 in the PAST.

This isn't that difficult to understand.

Then stop throwing the thing out as a possibility by listing the merits of Dorsey as an end and Tank Johnson as a nose tackle.

And I'm not just talking about Rex Ryan, I'm talking about any person, writ large (obviously indicated in my post above) that values scheme over the talents of the individuals, and I've made that abundantly clear several times in this thread.

[buddha]

Scott Pioli for GM (if we could get him...I have my doubts)

HC: Cower is going to Washington (my prediction), so I really don't know who would make the most sense at this point.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Scott Pioli for GM (if we could get him...I have my doubts)

HC: Cower is going to Washington (my prediction), so I really don't know who would make the most sense at this point.

After Zorn's fight with Portis, I could see this happening. Seems like he's losing that team.

[Mecca]

If you hire a coach that values scheme over players you'll get Arizona where their head coach hire basically flushed Leinarts draft choice.

[doomy3]

GM: Pioli or Polian
HC: McDaniels, Garrett or Spag. [Garrett won't come here, though]

(Hot-shot coordinators often don't pan out, though, but it's worth the risk.)

The main thing is just to clear out the not-to-lose stench at Arrowhead. Please no one in any capacity who talks about a QB as a game manager, and has nightmares of a QB throwing an interception.

Spag comes from Coughlin's tree, and that is EXACTLY his philosophy

[SAUTO]

If you hire a coach that values scheme over players you'll get Arizona where their head coach hire basically flushed Leinarts draft choice.

seems to have worked out pretty good though(warner IS a top mvp candidate)

[doomy3]

If you hire a coach that values scheme over players you'll get Arizona where their head coach hire basically flushed Leinarts draft choice.

ROFLROFLROFL

[OnTheWarpath15]

Yeah, I must have not posted to you that "you can run a 3-4 look in a certain scheme" but it shouldn't be a part of the entire package.

Yet, despite this, I'm not acknowledging anything you say or paying attention?

And yet, you go on defending the concept of a 3-4, when it's plain as fucking day that no one in their right mind would implement it with the talent we have here, unless you want to flush a top 5 draft pick one year into his career. And yet, despite saying that it's just part of a system he uses, you claim that Dorsey would work as a 3-4 end, despite the fact that you supposedly aren't saying that this is a possibility.

I'm not the one calling people a cocksucker because I disagree with them, either.

You do this shit with Mecca all the time in draft threads. Yeah, I'm abrasive and I think I know a lot, but I'm also not hypocritical enough to call someone out on that when it's one of my biggest personality characteristics, as it is with you.

Fuck it, I'm not done.

Not ONCE in this thread did I say that Dorsey WOULD work at DE in a 34. I ASKED WHY he wouldn't work. Fuck as it stands now, I don't know if he's going to work in a 43, much less a 34.

I'm not advocating making the switch. I'm merely making suggestions as to what may/could happen if the new coach WANTED to make the switch.

Just like Baltimore did earlier this decade.

Just like the Niners did when Nolan was brought in.

Just like the Jets are doing now.

As for Mecca, he gets shit from me because he refuses to have an open mind about anything that's not his idea, he goes out of his way to be negative, and he flat out makes shit up to fit his argument.

And considering you are far and away the biggest name-caller on the board, I find it funny you're calling me out for using cocksucker.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

ROFLROFLROFL

Dude, it's true. Whisenhunt was so tied to a down the field attack that he basically neutered Leinart via his scheme.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Fuck it, I'm not done.

Not ONCE in this thread did I say that Dorsey WOULD work at DE in a 34. I ASKED WHY he wouldn't work. Fuck as it stands now, I don't know if he's going to work in a 43, much less a 34.



Do you honestly think he'd fail at DE in a 3-4?

Play him on the left side, like Baltimore does Pryce and Douglas.


That does not read like a rhetorical question at all.

And FTR, I don't unload on people for disagreeing with me, I do it for dumbassery. Mecca and I disagree about player evals all the time, and I don't call him a cocksucker, because I know that he can ground his reasoning in something sane, not "well, he plays in the BXII, so he's the best prospect in teh world!!"

You wanna see me blast someone, have them talking about Chase Daniel is a first round pick, or how Todd Reesing could run the spread for the Pats, or how Bob Sanders is the MVP of the Colts.

[Infidel Goat]

Chris Polian and Jim Caldwell

I'm sorry, but Jim Grobe has demonstrated good coaching can produce wins at Wake Forest (and that Jim Caldwell was a failure as a head coach).

I'm a Wake Forest fan and gave Caldwell every opportunity to impress me.

Pass.

[SAUTO]

Dude, it's true. Whisenhunt was so tied to a down the field attack that he basically neutered Leinart via his scheme.

once again: how has that worked for arizona?

[Mecca]

I'm sorry, but Jim Grobe has demonstrated good coaching can produce wins at Wake Forest (and that Jim Caldwell was a failure as a head coach).

I'm a Wake Forest fan and gave Caldwell every opportunity to impress me.

Pass.

College and the NFL are way different, 95% of college coaching is recruiting.

[Mecca]

once again: how has that worked for arizona?

Tell me in a couple years when Warner is 40 and they have to find a QB...playing a system that the guy who's 24 can't play so a 38 year old can succeed isn't very smart...

[Ebolapox]

chris polian for GM
head coach? I'm not really picky. maybe jim schwartz (so I can make cheesy 'spaceballs' jokes).

[SAUTO]

Tell me in a couple years when Warner is 40 and they have to find a QB...playing a system that the guy who's 24 can't play so a 38 year old can succeed isn't very smart...

how many conference championships have they won in the past? how many home playoff games? NUFF SAID for that franchise, you HAVE to start somewhere

[Mecca]

They aren't going to the Superbowl this year either...it looks great now, in a year or 2 it will look really stupid. You flush a high draft choice because you are married to a system...Leinart was perfectly fine under Dennis Greens west coast offense.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

once again: how has that worked for arizona?

Long term it's going to be a debacle. They basically wasted the prime "do we have something?" year with Leinart this year. It was a shortsighted move.

[doomy3]

First Mecca says this:

Someone will get upset cause he's been mostly a 3-4 guy.

Then trashes Dorsey with this:

But you'll ruin Dorsey man! I'm not being serious I just had to do that...if we were to play 3-4 nearly every front 7 player on this team would need to be let go.

Then changes it to this:

If you hire a coach that values scheme over players you'll get Arizona where their head coach hire basically flushed Leinarts draft choice.


Tell me in a couple years when Warner is 40 and they have to find a QB...playing a system that the guy who's 24 can't play so a 38 year old can succeed isn't very smart...

:spock:

So, are you the guy who will get upset because he's mostly a 3-4 guy?

[Mecca]

No because I don't think the Chiefs are going to hire him but in fairness if anyone came in here and played 3-4 be damned it would be pretty stupid.

And all I did was give an example of how a coach being married to a system flushed a high pick, but hey you laughed at that, good intellect.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

First Mecca says this:



Then trashes Dorsey with this:



Then changes it to this:






:spock:

So, are you the guy who will get upset because he's mostly a 3-4 guy?

No, that's me.

[doomy3]

No because I don't think the Chiefs are going to hire him but in fairness if anyone came in here and played 3-4 be damned it would be pretty stupid.

Because it would ruin Dorsey? Or what's your reasoning?

[SAUTO]

They aren't going to the Superbowl this year either...it looks great now, in a year or 2 it will look really stupid. You flush a high draft choice because you are married to a system...Leinart was perfectly fine under Dennis Greens west coast offense.

maybe the new regime wasnt happy with leinart's work ethic, party lifestyle, injury issues. MAYBE?

[doomy3]

No because I don't think the Chiefs are going to hire him but in fairness if anyone came in here and played 3-4 be damned it would be pretty stupid.

And all I did was give an example of how a coach being married to a system flushed a high pick, but hey you laughed at that, good intellect.

Maybe the high pick got flushed because he sucks balls?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Because it would ruin Dorsey? Or what's your reasoning?

:doh!:

[Mecca]

Go look at his rookie year under Green, he doesn't have the arm to play in a vertical offense simple as that.

I think it's funny to see people think it's acceptable to flush your high draft choice QB because your coach wants to play another system. Great they made the playoffs, in a another year they'll need a QB again, brilliant.

It's basically indefensible to say it's ok to play an offense that a QB you just drafted can't play in.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Go look at his rookie year under Green, he doesn't have the arm to play in a vertical offense simple as that.

I think it's funny to see people think it's acceptable to flush your high draft choice QB because your coach wants to play another system. Great they made the playoffs, in a another year they'll need a QB again, brilliant.

In a way, it makes sense. It's the True Fan coming out. It's all about this year, future be damned.

[SAUTO]

Go look at his rookie year under Green, he doesn't have the arm to play in a vertical offense simple as that.

I think it's funny to see people think it's acceptable to flush your high draft choice QB because your coach wants to play another system. Great they made the playoffs, in a another year they'll need a QB again, brilliant.

It's basically indefensible to say it's ok to play an offense that a QB you just drafted can't play in.

man you ARE a flip flopper, you dont even LIKE leinart. you have said so many times.

[Mecca]

In a way, it makes sense. It's the True Fan coming out. It's all about this year, future be damned.

It's really stupid, I don't care if they hate SC or Matt Leinart or both, a coach flushing a high draft choice over a system is indefensible.

[doomy3]

:doh!:

I'm not asking you. Clearly that is your reasoning.

I want to hear what Mecca's reasoning. Is it because it would ruin Dorsey, Mecca?

[Mark M]

Well, who I want as GM is Pioli -- he's proven he knows what the hell he's doing.

Who I want as coach is ... well, I gotta be honest. I have no fucking idea.

A college guy scares me thanks to the debacles in Miami and Atlanta (and Washington and ... ) -- college is a totally, ridiculously different situation than the pros. It takes a special leader to handle the egos, the money, and the sheer weight of the NFL as compared to the family rooms, total dominion and relatively-lighter Saturdays-on-campus atmosphere.

A few coordinators intrigue me, so I'd prefer someone with NFL experience. Although not being a coordinator doesn't seem to mean as much. For the love of god, though, no retreads -- Norv Turner should retire, Haslett should stick to defense, and certainly not Chan.

Of course, since this is my life, Pioli will tell KC to blow it out its ass, Polian will decide to follow his dad in Indy no matter how long it takes, and Clark will decide on someone we've never heard of before.

We will then bring down some poor site looking up info on the dude, and the circle of life will continue ...

MM
~~:)

[ChiefsCountry]

GM - Eric DeCosta
Head Coach - Jim Schwartz (they worked together in Baltimore)

I like Schwartz bc he worked in Cleveland, Baltimore, and Tennessee. He was a position coach in Baltimore at linebacker when Ray Lewis and Peter Boulware were rookies. Moved Tennessee helped get them to the Super Bowl. Got promoted to Defensive Coordinator and helped the development of Haynesworth and Bulluck.

[Mecca]

man you ARE a flip flopper, you dont even LIKE leinart. you have said so many times.

In that scheme no I don't like him, asking a guy with a below average arm to throw verticals is retardation. He is a west coast offense QB, he has physical limitations.

Not making your offense one that he can play in when he was taken as high as he was when you know he has those limitations is what we call retarded.

[SAUTO]

In that scheme no I don't like him, asking a guy with a below average arm to throw verticals is retardation. He is a west coast offense QB, he has physical limitations.

Not making your offense one that he can play in when he was taken as high as he was when you know he has those limitations is what we call retarded.

NO you have said many times that you didnt LIKE leinart period. not in that system you have said you dont like him PERIOD

[Chiefnj2]

GM - Decosta or Chris Mara. I don't think Polian is a possibility.

[doomy3]

Because it would ruin Dorsey? Or what's your reasoning?

Mecca, can you answer this?

[Mecca]

NO you have said many times that you didnt LIKE leinart period. not in that system you have said you dont like him PERIOD

I'd love to know when I said that...I said he has physical limitations and has to play in the proper scheme with a coach that understands that.

Put Matt Leinart on a different team and he'd be fine.

[doomy3]

In that scheme no I don't like him, asking a guy with a below average arm to throw verticals is retardation. He is a west coast offense QB, he has physical limitations.

Not making your offense one that he can play in when he was taken as high as he was when you know he has those limitations is what we call retarded.

Again, maybe they just realized they took him too high, and are moving on. Isn't that a possibility? Kind of like Vince Young, or David Carr, or Joey Harrington, etc...

[Mecca]

Mecca, can you answer this?

I won't say flat out ruin him because that's predicting the future but it's for the most part not a good idea. You turn a top 5 pick into a role player.

[SAUTO]

I'd love to know when I said that...I said he has physical limitations and has to play in the proper scheme with a coach that understands that.

Put Matt Leinart on a different team and he'd be fine.

you post so much it's IMPOSSIBLE to find it, but i guarantee you HAVE said it

[doomy3]

I won't say flat out ruin him because that's predicting the future but it's for the most part not a good idea. You turn a top 5 pick into a role player.

so why earlier were you basically making fun of whoever would say that?

[Chiefnj2]

Trying to pin Mecca down is like trying to nail jello to the wall.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

you post so much it's IMPOSSIBLE to find it, but i guarantee you HAVE said it

I just searched for Leinart in his posts and saw a number of posts that were exactly what he's said here, that's he's a system QB. That can have a negative connotation, but I don't think he ever claimed he wasn't good.

He's also a system limited QB that came from a school with great talent around him......Sam Bradford is kind of like Matt Leinart...

If the Cards ran a west coast offense instead of a vertical offense he'd probably be ok.

[OnTheWarpath15]

so why earlier were you basically making fun of whoever would say that?

That's what I'm wondering...

He sure sounded on board with it until Hamas showed up.

[SAUTO]

Trying to pin Mecca down is like trying to nail jello to the wall.

ROFL thats because he stays vague enough to be right no matter what, and if he's TOTALLY wrong he trys to say why he SHOULD have been right

[SAUTO]

I just searched for Leinart in his posts and saw a number of posts that were exactly what he's said here, that's he's a system QB. That can have a negative connotation, but I don't think he ever claimed he wasn't good.

you can suck him off all you want i know FOR SURE he's said he's not a leinart fan now or when he was at usc

[OnTheWarpath15]

I don't unload on people for disagreeing with me

You wanna see me blast someone, have them talking about Chase Daniel is a first round pick, or how Todd Reesing could run the spread for the Pats, or how Bob Sanders is the MVP of the Colts.

Uh, I don't have all the fancy degrees and such that you have, but I'm pretty sure those all fall under the category of "disagreements"

YOU think one thing.

SOMEONE ELSE thinks something different.

Disagreement.


I sincerely apologize for calling you a cocksucker. It was wrong.

But please, spare me the speech about only blasting people who are stupid.

Again, I'm sorry.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

That's what I'm wondering...

He sure sounded on board with it until Hamas showed up.

Mecca is afraid to disagree with me, obviously.

It probably stems from the fact that I'm 6'4", an Olympic powerlifter, and a street fighting God.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Uh, I don't have all the fancy degrees and such that you have, but I'm pretty sure those all fall under the category of "disagreements"

YOU think one thing.

SOMEONE ELSE thinks something different.

Disagreement.

If you want to paint in Donger strokes, sure.

[TEX]

Jeff Diamond GM

Bill Cowher HC

[OnTheWarpath15]

If you want to paint in Donger strokes, sure.

ROFL

That's funny.

I can't stay mad at you Hamas...you're too fucking funny.

EDIT: I was editing my post when you quoted it. See above apology.

[Coach]

Mecca and Hamas, let me ask you guys this. It's just a simple question that needs a simple answer.

Does our front 4, or even that, front 7 sucks ass?

Basically, it's a yes, it blows/sucks ass, or a no, it's just mis-used players in wrong positions/etc. etc. etc.

[Ebolapox]

Mecca is afraid to disagree with me, obviously.

It probably stems from the fact that I'm 6'4", an Olympic powerlifter, and a street fighting God.

you got screwed, kimbo.

[crazycoffey]

you post so much it's IMPOSSIBLE to find it, but i guarantee you HAVE said it


so he'll only work with a coach that's married to a system that may "flush" another, different high draft pick?

you are so frustrating. I'm not even going to start tonight.

godamas jerkins too.

[Ebolapox]

Well, who I want as GM is Pioli -- he's proven he knows what the hell he's doing.

Who I want as coach is ... well, I gotta be honest. I have no fucking idea.

A college guy scares me thanks to the debacles in Miami and Atlanta (and Washington and ... ) -- college is a totally, ridiculously different situation than the pros. It takes a special leader to handle the egos, the money, and the sheer weight of the NFL as compared to the family rooms, total dominion and relatively-lighter Saturdays-on-campus atmosphere.

A few coordinators intrigue me, so I'd prefer someone with NFL experience. Although not being a coordinator doesn't seem to mean as much. For the love of god, though, no retreads -- Norv Turner should retire, Haslett should stick to defense, and certainly not Chan.

Of course, since this is my life, Pioli will tell KC to blow it out its ass, Polian will decide to follow his dad in Indy no matter how long it takes, and Clark will decide on someone we've never heard of before.

We will then bring down some poor site looking up info on the dude, and the circle of life will continue ...

MM
~~:)

goddamn. you fucking NAILED it.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Uh, I don't have all the fancy degrees and such that you have, but I'm pretty sure those all fall under the category of "disagreements"

YOU think one thing.

SOMEONE ELSE thinks something different.

Disagreement.


I sincerely apologize for calling you a cocksucker. It was wrong.

But please, spare me the speech about only blasting people who are stupid.

Again, I'm sorry.

There's no need to apologize, I don't let things like that get under my skin. People say things during arguments that they don't mean.

I think a lot of people take me the wrong way on here precisely because I can say vile things and not be angered in the least when I do it. It's just part of my misanthropic personality.

A lot of it is generational too. People my age generally call each other fucktards, dumbasses, and shit for brains for minor transgressions.

If you want to see an example of the difference though, a lot of times I disagree with duncan_idaho on stuff, but he's able to make a consistent and well supported case for his side. I respect that. What I don't respect are people saying "X Person is teh shit" and then going to a box score as their only defense.

[Mecca]

you can suck him off all you want i know FOR SURE he's said he's not a leinart fan now or when he was at usc

Yea I totally hate the QB that led my college team to back to back titles, I think you are completely misreading something or just thinking you read something you didn't.

I've always said Leinart was system limited because he doesn't have a big arm. That being said I still would say Leinart was a much better prospect than Sam Bradford, neither has a great arm but atleast Leinart had experience from under center in a pro style offense.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Mecca and Hamas, let me ask you guys this. It's just a simple question that needs a simple answer.

Does our front 4, or even that, front 7 sucks ass?

Basically, it's a yes, it blows/sucks ass, or a no, it's just mis-used players in wrong positions/etc. etc. etc.

First of all, we already aren't in the right scheme.

I think we should play a standard 4-3 with more of a Cover 1 look that brings pressure from the backers rather than the front 4.
I think that Hali and McBride are servicable pieces on the left side in such a defense.
I think Dorsey can be an assist man for play makers. I think that Tyler should spell Dorsey and not start alongside him.
Mecca's opinion that we need a larger DT alongside Dorsey has merit, especially on the first two downs.

DJ is a downhill linebacker with speed. I don't like him as a coverage backer, and I hate him as a mike. He should be used the way he was used as a rookie. They should blitz him all over the place.

Williams is a good LB for a strong nickel, IMO.

We have pieces, we just need a playmaker at RDE. I don't want Peppers, but I'd be ok with us going after Suggs (but that probably won't happen).

I think the main problem is that the fans just aren't patient with the players. You can be impatient with the coaches and management, but these players need time, especially when the LB and DL coaches are horrendous.

[Mecca]

Mecca and Hamas, let me ask you guys this. It's just a simple question that needs a simple answer.

Does our front 4, or even that, front 7 sucks ass?

Basically, it's a yes, it blows/sucks ass, or a no, it's just mis-used players in wrong positions/etc. etc. etc.

Yes it sucks and we need new players, but at the same time I'm not sure moving around a top 5 pick is a great idea.

A guy like Hali who's been here 3 years fuck him, Dorsey I don't have that same view.

[DeezNutz]

A charge of you're "one who sucks the penis" has led to a lot of man love in this thread.

Irony. Love it.

[Mecca]

We have to many role players and no leaders or stars, you don't build a great defense or team around role players.

A 3-4 places the star moniker on it's LB's the position we are by far the worst at not to mention we just spent our highest pick on a DT.

[crazycoffey]

so he'll only work with a coach that's married to a system that may "flush" another, different high draft pick?

you are so frustrating. I'm not even going to start tonight.

godamas jerkins too.


nothing, mecca?

[Mecca]

Are you back to tell me Herm is not a bad coach?

[Infidel Goat]

College and the NFL are way different, 95% of college coaching is recruiting.


I'd argue that Caldwell actually outrecruited Grobe based upon high school ratings.

Grobe may have a better eye for undervalued talent--which would just be another knock against Caldwell.

Grobe isn't winning because of his recruiting pipeline. Even with his 3rd consecutive bowl, he hasn't signed a four or five star recruit...

[MahiMike]

I don't think Chris Polian would be dumb enough to tie his future with the Chiefs to a guy with Herms record.

Obviously whoever comes in will want their own regime. Herm's a gonner.

[MahiMike]

I'd take Scott Pioli as GM and go with whichever head coach he desires. Bring in Matt Cassel while you're at it.

[Mecca]

I'd argue that Caldwell actually outrecruited Grobe based upon high school ratings.

Grobe may have a better eye for undervalued talent--which would just be another knock against Caldwell.

Grobe isn't winning because of his recruiting pipeline. Even with his 3rd consecutive bowl, he hasn't signed a four or five star recruit...

Lets not factor in at how down the ACC is now compared to where it was...FSU is not what it was a short time ago.

[Coach]

First of all, we already aren't in the right scheme.

I think we should play a standard 4-3 with more of a Cover 1 look that brings pressure from the backers rather than the front 4.

Sure, and I respect that. But you also need your front 4 to be generating all the pressure they can, without any help from the linebackers, so the linebackers can drop back in coverage or play man-to-man coverage. Spagnuolo is a good defensive coordinator, and I would have no objection if he were to come to KC. But NY's front four is very good, and that's what makes his blitzes even more effective IMHO. It worked well under Jim Johnson in Philly.

But there also extra benefits if there was a DC that can employ a little of a change up to his fastball. Primarly a 4-3 with a little 3-4 and a 4-6 on the side. That will cause alot of headaches for the offensive coaches to gameplan, because they shouldn't gameplan thinking that it'll be strictly a 4-3, because they will also have to gameplan some 3-4 and a 4-6.


I think that Hali and McBride are servicable pieces on the left side in such a defense.

I have no objections provided Hali and McBride are used correctly. They both appears to me that they are at best, role players. There's still a little possibility that McBride could grow into a serviceable starting LE with Hali spelling him in some occasions. But that will be determined, as soon as we get new defensive coaches. The sooner, the better, IMHO.

Ithink Dorsey can be an assist man for play makers. I think that Tyler should spell Dorsey and not start alongside him.

That's where I somewhat disgree with you respectfully on Tank Tyler, because he has shown some improvement from his year 1 to year 2. I know it's not much to look at statistically wise, but you couldn't deny that there was some improvement there, despite the fact that our rush defense is bad. However, I also wonder if the fact that many members on here strongly believes that Tyler and Dorsey are both playing the wrong positions. Meaning that they both switch, maybe could solve some of the problems. Who knows? I still give both of them the benefit of the doubt, especially that they are stuck under a very shitty defensive line coach in Tim Krumrie. Under Krumrie's tenture, I have not seen one of our linemen ever show any kind of improvement at all. Maybe Jared Allen, but who really knows?

Mecca's opinion that we need a larger DT alongside Dorsey has merit, especially on the first two downs.

Sure, I could see that argument, but at the same time, we also need to realize that Tyler is in his 2nd year and Dorsey in his first year. Very rare you'll find a DT that would dominate the league within their first 3 years, if I am not mistaken. Maybe two, but that may be generous.

DJ is a downhill linebacker with speed. I don't like him as a coverage backer, and I hate him as a mike. He should be used the way he was used as a rookie. They should blitz him all over the place.

Williams is a good LB for a strong nickel, IMO.

Yeah, he does have good speed, and I agree that he should be blitzing him. However, I am concerned about his inability to shed blockers and sometimes, I do wonder if D. Johnson is actually going "all-out" on the plays. I mean, I want the Johnson that played in the Oakland game where he dominated that game. Not just one game and disappear for say, 5-6 weeks.

I'm indifferent in Williams. Seems to me that he's probably special teamer type of a player who can fill in a role position, but that's just my opinion.

We have pieces, we just need a playmaker at RDE. I don't want Peppers, but I'd be ok with us going after Suggs (but that probably won't happen).

I think the main problem is that the fans just aren't patient with the players. You can be impatient with the coaches and management, but these players need time, especially when the LB and DL coaches are horrendous.

Oh I agree on the pieces comment. It's there, but there has to be more additions on there. Deftinaly needs a RE in a very bad way. Probably will need more depth in DT positions, as Boone and Ron Edwards are a waste of space, IMHO. Deftinaly will need some LB's as well. Safety position is a major issue for me. Page is serviceable at best, but Pollard? Yikes. What really bothers me is that we're already 2-12 right now, and we still haven't seen anything out Morgan, who SHOULD be getting major playing time over Pollard.

I am paitent with the players, that's not the issue. But at the same time, you expect results back from those players. It's been almost 4 years now for D. Johnson, and he still hasn't shown me that he can be consistent. I see flashes of brilliance there, but why is it hard for him to be consistent, coaching staff be damned?

But the bottom line is, and it's a undeniable fact, that we need new coaches, period. I would have no objections if we were to keep David Gibbs, as the corners has shown some improvement. Especially Leggett, but if Gibbs is gone, I'm not gonna shed a tear.

[Coach]

Yes it sucks and we need new players, but at the same time I'm not sure moving around a top 5 pick is a great idea.

A guy like Hali who's been here 3 years fuck him, Dorsey I don't have that same view.

Well then, if we need new players, then it shouldn't matter what defensive front they should run next year if we're going to need new players.

Want a 3-4? Fine, they'll get the players for it one way or another.

Want a 4-3? Fine, they'll replace some of the stooges that cannot do jackshit.

One way or another, something have to change. It probably could be both.

[Infidel Goat]

Lets not factor in at how down the ACC is now compared to where it was...FSU is not what it was a short time ago.

Jeff Sagarin doesn't agree with you (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbc08.htm)

If you don't believe me, though, then go to the Wake Forest board and ask them about Caldwell's coaching ability. They are the ones who watched his x's and o's for several years.

They'll tell you that you are grasping for straws on this one. You're entitled to your opinion, but I think that you're way off base on this one...

[Mecca]

Jeff Sagarin doesn't agree with you (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbc08.htm)

If you don't believe me, though, then go to the Wake Forest board and ask them about Caldwell's coaching ability. They are the ones who watched his x's and o's for several years.

They'll tell you that you are grasping for straws on this one. You're entitled to your opinion, but I think that you're way off base on this one...

Ok well the Colts disagree with you.

[Infidel Goat]

Ok well the Colts disagree with you.

He'll be a great fall guy when Manning and Dungy retire at the same time...

[Mecca]

He'll be a great fall guy when Manning and Dungy retire at the same time...

Well coaching in college and the NFL are so different it's hard to really say if he'll be good in the NFL.

[Coach]

Well coaching in college and the NFL are so different it's hard to really say if he'll be good in the NFL.

And college coaches have not made a successful transformation from the college ranks to the NFL.

See Steve, Spurrier, Nick Saban, Dennis Erickson, Butch Davis, Rich Brooks and Mike Riley to name a few.

Jimmy Johnson was an exception to the rule.

[FringeNC]

Spag comes from Coughlin's tree, and that is EXACTLY his philosophy

Coughlin is a play not to lose guy? Since when? Jax may have had the best offense in the league when he was their coach. And the Giants ain't shabby.

[crazycoffey]

Are you back to tell me Herm is not a bad coach?

duck and cover, advoidance mecca being mecca....

[Mecca]

I'm pretty sure I addressed whatever you said back there, so you can go read.

[crazycoffey]

I'm pretty sure I addressed whatever you said back there, so you can go read.


I'm pretty sure you didn't. but I only tried to make one of many points that were being made against your opinions, aren't you tired of that crap yet?

[doomy3]

Coughlin is a play not to lose guy? Since when? Jax may have had the best offense in the league when he was their coach. And the Giants ain't shabby.

Couglin's mantra with Eli, is don't turn the ball over, and manage games. This has been talked about extensively in every single Giants game I have watched this year. That is his number one priority.

[The Bad Guy]

Spagnuolo comes from Jim Johnson's coaching tree. Jim Johnson is about as aggressive of a coordinator as there is in the NFL.

[JBucc]

I don't know anything about front office people. I do like Spagnuolios as head coach though.

[Molitoth]

Chris Polian and Jim Caldwell

solid

[Mr. Laz]

President - Scott Pioli
General Manager - Chris Polian
Head Coach - Bill Cowher
offensive coordinator - Cam Cameron
defensive coordinator - Mike Singletary



:D

[Ebolapox]

President - Scott Pioli
General Manager - Chris Polian
Head Coach - Bill Cowher
offensive coordinator - Cam Cameron
defensive coordinator - Mike Singletary



:D

jizz in my pants.

[KCJohnny]

Marty Schottenheimer - GM
Herm Edwards - HC
Chan Gailey - OC
Gunther Cunningham - DC
KCJohnny - President of Football Operations :D


May not please this crowd, but probably not far from possible. Would definitely fill One Arrowhead Drive on Sundays.

GO CHIEFS!
:arrow:

[milkman]

Marty Schottenheimer - GM
Herm Edwards - HC
Chan Gailey - OC
Gunther Cunningham - DC
KCJohnny - President of Football Operations :D


May not please this crowd, but probably not far from possible. Would definitely fill One Arrowhead Drive on Sundays.

GO CHIEFS!
:arrow:

Dumbass.

[PhillyChiefFan]

I would also be for the scenario that OTW said. Ryan could help get Suggs here.

I would bet that Suggs is staying put, I think they'll get rid of Bart Scott, who would still be an upgrade for us.

[milkman]

I have some concerns. For one thing, does this require us to move to a 3-4 (I argued this in another thread that it's not a terrible idea).

Here's what concerns me most. I think there are a lot of awesome coaches who just weren't meant to ever be head coach material. As a head coach, you become more removed from the X's and O's and it becomes more important how you manage your staff and players. I just see Ryan as a guy his players will learn to hate. As a coordinator, you can rip apart your players and be the jerk. As a coach, you also have to be their friend. I'm not sure if Ryan has that in him. Also, as we learned from Gregg Williams, you have to be able to manage the ball from both sides of the ball, so the head coach has to be cool enough to realize that he can't control everything. Too often head coaches try to become too involved in the side of the ball they have too limited experience dealing with.

My sense is that Ryan is a football genius and yet you rarely ever hear his name come up for consideration from most teams, which leads me to believe that other GMs might be on the same wavelength as me.

Other GMs?

[chiefzilla1501]

Other GMs?

I'm saying that I think it's interesting that lots of other teams have known about Ryan for years, but nobody's approached him for an interview. Seems a lot like Monte Kiffin, Jim Johnson, and Al Saunders. These seem to be guys that GMs believe are real good coordinators who wouldn't be or wouldn't want to be good head coaches.

[Ebolapox]

Marty Schottenheimer - GM
Herm Edwards - HC
Chan Gailey - OC
Gunther Cunningham - DC
KCJohnny - President of Football Operations :D


May not please this crowd, but probably not far from possible. Would definitely fill One Arrowhead Drive on Sundays.

GO CHIEFS!
:arrow:

NO soup for you.

yeah--it's all about filling One Arrowhead Drive on sundays. it's not about the wins/losses, is it? it's not about playoff wins, isn't it?

this is exactly what's wrong with this goddamned fanbase. it's all fanboys who don't give a shit whether we win or lose, it's about the 'arrowhead mystique'--look: the arrowhead mystique is fucking dead. it's been dead for a few years now. it died with marty, methinks, and got revived for about five minutes with dick-head-coach-vermiel. it's gone. do we need to have a funeral for it so you dumbasses can mourn? I'll give you three minutes to weep silently before we get back on topic.

so, back. it's dead. deal with it. the REST of the nfl (save a few other bottom dwellers) have moved on--homefield advantage means precious little these days. you know that matters? WINS IN THE PLAYOFFS. if you WIN, more people will SHOW UP. it's a simple equation:

W(2P+R)=A

wins (playoff[which gets a multiplier because they're SO IMPORTANT] + regular season) equals attendence.

yeah. let's stay with the status quo. it may have worked in 1993, but NEWS FLASH: we don't have joe montana to rescue us. we have to DEVELOP a team from scratch--you don't get a PLAYOFF WINNING TEAM with your lineup. you get status quo.

and I, for one am SICK TO FUCKING DEATH of status quo in relation to the chiefs. and it seems that clark hunt is too. status quo was carl delano peterson. status quo would be marty fucking schottenheimer. status quo is keeping a defensive coordinator who hasn't coordinated SHIT since coming back.

you want status quo? fine. go join a fucking elk's lodge and knock em' back and think of yesteryear with the rest of the outdated morons. let the rest of us contemplate a future with MAYBE a super bowl victory before we die. I wasn't even THOUGHT OF when the chiefs won the 'ship in 1970. FUCK, my dad was only thirteen years old. maybe YOU were alive, but a lot of us weren't. thus, we could give a shit less about status quo.

now, take hamas' advice. kindly go FUCKING KILL YOURSELF

[milkman]

GM - Eric DeCosta
Head Coach - Jim Schwartz (they worked together in Baltimore)

I like Schwartz bc he worked in Cleveland, Baltimore, and Tennessee. He was a position coach in Baltimore at linebacker when Ray Lewis and Peter Boulware were rookies. Moved Tennessee helped get them to the Super Bowl. Got promoted to Defensive Coordinator and helped the development of Haynesworth and Bulluck.

This.

[Rausch]

President - Scott Pioli
General Manager - Chris Polian
Head Coach - Bill Cowher
offensive coordinator - Cam Cameron
defensive coordinator - Mike Singletary



:D

I'd keep Chan. Outside of that I'm all for you and Clark sitting down over lunch to discuss a winning front office...

[milkman]

I'm saying that I think it's interesting that lots of other teams have known about Ryan for years, but nobody's approached him for an interview. Seems a lot like Monte Kiffin, Jim Johnson, and Al Saunders. These seem to be guys that GMs believe are real good coordinators who wouldn't be or wouldn't want to be good head coaches.

I got what you mean't.

But your wording, using "other GMs" left the implication that you yourself were/are a GM.
I know that isn't what you mean't.
I just found it funny and had to comment.

[crazycoffey]

this is exactly what's wrong with this goddamned fanbase. it's all fanboys who don't give a shit whether we win or lose, it's about the 'arrowhead mystique'--look: the arrowhead mystique is ****ing dead. it's been dead for a few years now. it died with marty, methinks, and got revived for about five minutes with dick-head-coach-vermiel. it's gone. do we need to have a funeral for it so you dumbasses can mourn? I'll give you three minutes to weep silently before we get back on topic.

so, back. it's dead. deal with it. the REST of the nfl (save a few other bottom dwellers) have moved on--homefield advantage means precious little these days. you know that matters? WINS IN THE PLAYOFFS. if you WIN, more people will SHOW UP. it's a simple equation:

W(2P+R)=A



and this "negative nancy" crap has taken over Chiefsplanet. I think that is more "what's wrong" than anyone having some positive hopes. Just because you disagree with his opinion he gets bashed over the head by you and called a dumbass by another.

[Ebolapox]

and this "negative nancy" crap has taken over Chiefsplanet. I think that is more "what's wrong" than anyone having some positive hopes. Just because you disagree with his opinion he gets bashed over the head by you and called a dumbass by another.

here, disagree with this:

last playoff win: 1993

that's fifteen years. I'm 25 years old. I was ten years old the last playoff win--fuck, aren't you younger than me? I can't recall. doesn't matter.

I'll be the first person to be optimistic if THERE'S ANYTHING TO BE OPTIMISTIC ABOUT. have you WATCHED the chiefs lately? we're HORRIBLE.

it has nothing to do with being a 'negative nancy.' it has EVERYTHING to do with people holding onto the adages of a by-gone era. and it's gone. if you want to have positive hopes, PLEASE have a REASON to have positive hopes.

I remember a very specific time when I was younger that my dad was like this--and I didn't understand it then, but I do perfectly now.

the chiefs were playing the giants in the meadowlands. we were down big in the second quarter. he left the room in disgust and went to go mow the lawn. before he left, though, we had an argument. I pounded my fists like the preteen douche I was and said 'the chiefs can win! they can come back!' completely optimistic that the chiefs could overcome all odds and win a meaningless game.

my dad was realistic--he said 'there's no way' and went about his day

I'm like that these days. SOME of you still believe. it's like believing in santa claus--he's still coming for some of you. the rest of us in realism land have no delusions about this team.

I remember crying my eyes out after the 1995 playoff loss to the colts. I remember going on my first cussing tirade after the 1997 playoff loss to the broncos.

I, for one, and SICK TO FUCKING DEATH of putting up with 'not quite good enough'--it's ALL this fucking organization feeds to us. if you want to be spoon-fed bullshit? that's fine with me. I'm all for putting their fucking heads under the guillotine and MAYBE building a team that's in it for the long haul.

[Rausch]

here, disagree with this:

last playoff win: 1993

that's fifteen years. I'm 25 years old. I was ten years old the last playoff win--****, aren't you younger than me? I can't recall. doesn't matter.

I'll be the first person to be optimistic if THERE'S ANYTHING TO BE OPTIMISTIC ABOUT. have you WATCHED the chiefs lately? we're HORRIBLE.

Yeah, but we didn't have to be.

Our defensive coaches could teach players to tackle WITH THEIR ARMS. WRAP UP and foget this power-shoulder-ESPN-highlight-woo-hit-bull$#it.

You can do that. You tell the next guy in the secondary who pulls a "Wesley whiff" that he's sitting the following week. You hit and wrap up.

Short story is we play sloppy, we keep playing sloppy, and we've lost games we could have and should have won. Even with this rebuild rookie-infused roster.

We underachieved HUGE...

I, for one, and SICK TO ****ING DEATH of putting up with 'not quite good enough'--it's ALL this ****ing organization feeds to us. if you want to be spoon-fed bullshit? that's fine with me. I'm all for putting their ****ing heads under the guillotine and MAYBE building a team that's in it for the long haul.

With the beheading of Marie "Peterson" Antoinette the age of failure (and pride despite incompetence) is over...

[the Talking Can]

A charge of you're "one who sucks the penis" has led to a lot of man love in this thread.

Irony. Love it.

this place is magic

[the Talking Can]

Marty Schottenheimer - GM
Herm Edwards - HC
Chan Gailey - OC
Gunther Cunningham - DC
KCJohnny - President of Football Operations :D


May not please this crowd, but probably not far from possible. Would definitely fill One Arrowhead Drive on Sundays.

GO CHIEFS!
:arrow:

there aren't enough short yellow buses to fill the stadium for that

[reiko57]

marty and cowher

hellz ya

[chiefzilla1501]

Hamas, I'm not suggesting that 3-4 is the answer, but I don't know why you're so convinced that it won't work or that we won't get our money's worth with Dorsey. Dorsey may not make as many tackles or sacks in a 3-4, but arguably, he'd a far more valuable piece to the defense in a 3-4 than in a 4-3. He'd be one of many in a long line of impact DEs in a 3-4, from Richard Seymour to Luis Castillo to Igor Olshansky to Haloti Ngata to Aaron Smith that converted from the DT position. I would argue that Seymour, Ngata, and Smith are difference makers for their respective defenses. In that role, like his role in the 4-3 Cover 1 that you're suggesting, he would also be an assist guy--a guy responsible for multiple gaps that would free up opportunities for LBs to shoot through gaps. The only argument I could see against Dorsey playing DE in a 3-4 is that he may be a little short, but I don't think that's a particularly big obstacle.

And DJ would actually be a pretty ideal fit for an ILB, as he has the capability to both rush the passer and drop into coverage--something that you need to do both of well in a 3-4.

I don't know if it's the best option, but it's an option and it's not a ridiculous one. Especially if the Chiefs think Dorsey could be a solid 3-4 DE which I think is a definite possibility. Especially if you can lure a guy like Wade Phillips into the coordinator position.

First of all, we already aren't in the right scheme.

I think we should play a standard 4-3 with more of a Cover 1 look that brings pressure from the backers rather than the front 4.
I think that Hali and McBride are servicable pieces on the left side in such a defense.
I think Dorsey can be an assist man for play makers. I think that Tyler should spell Dorsey and not start alongside him.
Mecca's opinion that we need a larger DT alongside Dorsey has merit, especially on the first two downs.

DJ is a downhill linebacker with speed. I don't like him as a coverage backer, and I hate him as a mike. He should be used the way he was used as a rookie. They should blitz him all over the place.

Williams is a good LB for a strong nickel, IMO.

We have pieces, we just need a playmaker at RDE. I don't want Peppers, but I'd be ok with us going after Suggs (but that probably won't happen).

I think the main problem is that the fans just aren't patient with the players. You can be impatient with the coaches and management, but these players need time, especially when the LB and DL coaches are horrendous.

[milkman]

marty and cowher

hellz ya

Kill yourself.

[Demonpenz]

marty as gm cower power at coach

[milkman]

Hamas, I'm not suggesting that 3-4 is the answer, but I don't know why you're so convinced that it won't work or that we won't get our money's worth with Dorsey. Dorsey may not make as many tackles or sacks in a 3-4, but arguably, he'd a far more valuable piece to the defense in a 3-4 than in a 4-3. He'd be one of many in a long line of impact DEs in a 3-4, from Richard Seymour to Luis Castillo to Igor Olshansky to Haloti Ngata to Aaron Smith that converted from the DT position. I would argue that Seymour, Ngata, and Smith are difference makers for their respective defenses. In that role, like his role in the 4-3 Cover 1 that you're suggesting, he would also be an assist guy--a guy responsible for multiple gaps that would free up opportunities for LBs to shoot through gaps. The only argument I could see against Dorsey playing DE in a 3-4 is that he may be a little short, but I don't think that's a particularly big obstacle.

And DJ would actually be a pretty ideal fit for an ILB, as he has the capability to both rush the passer and drop into coverage--something that you need to do both of well in a 3-4.

I don't know if it's the best option, but it's an option and it's not a ridiculous one. Especially if the Chiefs think Dorsey could be a solid 3-4 DE which I think is a definite possibility. Especially if you can lure a guy like Wade Phillips into the coordinator position.

Hamas has already discussed one of the other obvious physical shortcomings of Dorsey as a 3-4 DE.

Short arms.

And why do you always post your thoughts in front of the posts you quote?

[Demonpenz]

Hamas, I'm not suggesting that 3-4 is the answer, but I don't know why you're so convinced that it won't work or that we won't get our money's worth with Dorsey. Dorsey may not make as many tackles or sacks in a 3-4, but arguably, he'd a far more valuable piece to the defense in a 3-4 than in a 4-3. He'd be one of many in a long line of impact DEs in a 3-4, from Richard Seymour to Luis Castillo to Igor Olshansky to Haloti Ngata to Aaron Smith that converted from the DT position. I would argue that Seymour, Ngata, and Smith are difference makers for their respective defenses. In that role, like his role in the 4-3 Cover 1 that you're suggesting, he would also be an assist guy--a guy responsible for multiple gaps that would free up opportunities for LBs to shoot through gaps. The only argument I could see against Dorsey playing DE in a 3-4 is that he may be a little short, but I don't think that's a particularly big obstacle.

And DJ would actually be a pretty ideal fit for an ILB, as he has the capability to both rush the passer and drop into coverage--something that you need to do both of well in a 3-4.

I don't know if it's the best option, but it's an option and it's not a ridiculous one. Especially if the Chiefs think Dorsey could be a solid 3-4 DE which I think is a definite possibility. Especially if you can lure a guy like Wade Phillips into the coordinator position.

:clap:

[King_Chief_Fan]

I'd keep Chan. Outside of that I'm all for you and Clark sitting down over lunch to discuss a winning front office...

ditto...except for the Chan thing.

[Rausch]

ditto...except for the Chan thing.

What is it you don't like?...

[Sully]

Marty Schottenheimer - GM
Herm Edwards - HC
Chan Gailey - OC
Gunther Cunningham - DC
KCJohnny - President of Football Operations :D


May not please this crowd, but probably not far from possible. Would definitely fill One Arrowhead Drive on Sundays.

GO CHIEFS!
:arrow:

You're serious, aren't you?
I mean...you really mean this?

Wow.

[Ebolapox]

Yeah, but we didn't have to be.

Our defensive coaches could teach players to tackle WITH THEIR ARMS. WRAP UP and foget this power-shoulder-ESPN-highlight-woo-hit-bull$#it.

You can do that. You tell the next guy in the secondary who pulls a "Wesley whiff" that he's sitting the following week. You hit and wrap up.

Short story is we play sloppy, we keep playing sloppy, and we've lost games we could have and should have won. Even with this rebuild rookie-infused roster.

We underachieved HUGE...



With the beheading of Marie "Peterson" Antoinette the age of failure (and pride despite incompetence) is over...

of course we underachieve. that's what we do. we've done it as long as I can remember. I literally can't remember a year of being a chiefs fan that I DIDN'T make some sort of comment about our shoddy tackling.

underachieving is part of the problem. you underachieve because of shitty coaching. look, I like gun too. but his rhetoric hasn't worked this second time around. it's rather obvious that his defenses worked GREAT when the rules for DB/WR contact were more lax (and hasty/carter could MAUL WRs) and he had a defense with guys like neil smith and DT. he needs a talent-laden defense. problem is, with all of the potential 'talent' we've drafted in the first few rounds, NONE of them have really developed. derrick johnson, all of the DTs, etc. that goes down to coaching. I'm not sure peterson ALONE is to blame. will it help? fuck yes. but a lot more people have to go. the job isn't done.

[Sully]

GM- Scott Pioli
HC- Bill Cowher or Spag
OC- Chan Gailey or Price
DC- Romeo Crennell or Mike Nolan

[DaKCMan AP]

Toss-up between Reggie McKenzie and John Schneider for GM. I'll go with John Schneider since he's younger, has a connection to the Chiefs (was Dir. of Pro Personnel 1997-1999) and because he assists Ted Thompson with regards to free agency and the draft whereas McKenzie's focus is on scouting pro leagues (NFL, NFL Europe (gone), AFL (gone), CFL, etc.).

For head coach without a doubt Steve Spagnuolo.

[DaKCMan AP]

HC

1. Stoops


:spock:

Spag comes from Coughlin's tree, and that is EXACTLY his philosophy

:doh!:

Spagnuolo does NOT come from Coughlin's tree.

Marty Schottenheimer - GM
Herm Edwards - HC
Chan Gailey - OC
Gunther Cunningham - DC
KCJohnny - President of Football Operations :D


May not please this crowd, but probably not far from possible. Would definitely fill One Arrowhead Drive on Sundays.

GO CHIEFS!
:arrow:

:stupid:

[Frosty]

I want a GM that is a personnel guy on a consistent winner. Schneider and DeCosta fit that bill, IMO. Dominick from Tampa is another name that is getting thrown out there but my impression is that Tampa's talent is "meh".

As for coach, I don't have a strong opinion. I want the new GM to do his homework and pick who they think is the best choice.

For a coaching dark horse, if DeCosta is hired, I wonder if he would go after Jim Harbaugh?

[Frosty]

Marty Schottenheimer - GM
Herm Edwards - HC
Chan Gailey - OC
Gunther Cunningham - DC
KCJohnny - President of Football Operations :D


May not please this crowd, but probably not far from possible. Would definitely fill One Arrowhead Drive on Sundays.

GO CHIEFS!
:arrow:

How would constantly winning 2-3 games a year fill Arrowhead? It isn't working this year. :shrug:

[DJ's left nut]

Doug Whaley -- GM
Steve Spagnuolo -- HC

Those are two guys from unbelievably successful programs.

Spagnuolo from the Eagles/Giants and those aggressive attack defenses (and presumably he can take an offensive mind from those clubs as well, as both can put points on the board).

The Steelers have always known when to let a guy go and how to replace that guy, that's Whaley's department, IMO.

[Mark M]

Marty Schottenheimer - GM
Herm Edwards - HC
Chan Gailey - OC
Gunther Cunningham - DC
KCJohnny - President of Football Operations :D


May not please this crowd, but probably not far from possible. Would definitely fill One Arrowhead Drive on Sundays.

GO CHIEFS!
:arrow:

Still off the meds, eh?

MM
~~:shake:

[Mr. Laz]

I'd keep Chan. Outside of that I'm all for you and Clark sitting down over lunch to discuss a winning front office...
works for me ... Gailey and Cowher have worked together before. :)

President - Scott Pioli
General Manager - Chris Polian
Head Coach - Bill Cowher
offensive coordinator - Chan Gailey
defensive coordinator - Mike Singletary

[BigRedChief]

works for me ... Gailey and Cowher have worked together before. :)

President - Scott Pioli
General Manager - Chris Polian
Head Coach - Bill Cowher
offensive coordinator - Chan Gailey
defensive coordinator - Mike Singletary
I could live with that group.

[crazycoffey]

here, disagree with this:

last playoff win: 1993

that's fifteen years. I'm 25 years old. I was ten years old the last playoff win--****, aren't you younger than me? I can't recall. doesn't matter.

I'll be the first person to be optimistic if THERE'S ANYTHING TO BE OPTIMISTIC ABOUT. have you WATCHED the chiefs lately? we're HORRIBLE.

it has nothing to do with being a 'negative nancy.' it has EVERYTHING to do with people holding onto the adages of a by-gone era. and it's gone. if you want to have positive hopes, PLEASE have a REASON to have positive hopes.

I remember a very specific time when I was younger that my dad was like this--and I didn't understand it then, but I do perfectly now.

the chiefs were playing the giants in the meadowlands. we were down big in the second quarter. he left the room in disgust and went to go mow the lawn. before he left, though, we had an argument. I pounded my fists like the preteen douche I was and said 'the chiefs can win! they can come back!' completely optimistic that the chiefs could overcome all odds and win a meaningless game.

my dad was realistic--he said 'there's no way' and went about his day

I'm like that these days. SOME of you still believe. it's like believing in santa claus--he's still coming for some of you. the rest of us in realism land have no delusions about this team.

I remember crying my eyes out after the 1995 playoff loss to the colts. I remember going on my first cussing tirade after the 1997 playoff loss to the broncos.

I, for one, and SICK TO ****ING DEATH of putting up with 'not quite good enough'--it's ALL this ****ing organization feeds to us. if you want to be spoon-fed bullshit? that's fine with me. I'm all for putting their ****ing heads under the guillotine and MAYBE building a team that's in it for the long haul.


I'm 35 and I like watching the events unfold. I don't like to watch them lose, but I won't sulk very long about it when they do. We haven't won a playoff in 15 years, but we've been in the playoffs fairly regularly until recent.

Last years sucked balls but this year I saw hope, hope that carl/clark/herm were about to try something different. They did, they did START something different. Carl obviously had to be the first headpiece to leave, because it was so far off from what he wants to do, a philosophy relying more heavily on free agents. One that worked for him for a long time too.

I really think Herm got the ball rolling on this change, sold the idea to clark (which in turn got carl out of here) he has the player's attention, and the players are learning/improving. We aren't watching the same game if you are going to tell me you can't see some steady improvements with several players on both sides of the ball. We've come close to winning some big games against some pretty good teams with mostly rookies, and rookies that weren't even our starting rookies at the begining of the season in some cases.

Yes that is why I say I don't think Herm is a bad coach.

I've seen him make some mistakes on the sideline, and it pisses me off too. But I think he stays unless it becomes a deal breaker for the new GM. If that happens, I won't be off sulking, I'll be very interested and tuned in to find out who the new coach will be.

But the bottom line is, I don't have a single damn thing to say about who it is, the new GM or if a new coach comes in. some of the arguing here is downright ignorant.

BTW - I contest your self promoted title as "realist" - I believe I'm the one being a realist and you are being a Meccamist.

[FloridaMan88]

GM= Scott Pioli
Head Coach= Josh McDaniels

and I'll go a step further and say for defensive coordinator (assuming he is fired by Cleveland) I want Romeo Crennel

[CupidStunt]

GM: DeCosta
Head Coach: Spagnuolo

Works for me, particularly Spags as the HC. Guy looks like the next great thing to me -- unlike overrated guys like McDaniels and Jason f'ing Garrett.

[The Franchise]

works for me ... Gailey and Cowher have worked together before. :)

President - Scott Pioli
General Manager - Chris Polian
Head Coach - Bill Cowher
offensive coordinator - Chan Gailey
defensive coordinator - Mike Singletary

I'd think that we would get one or the other. I don't see Pioli and Polian coming over to be a part of our organization.

I don't want Cowher as our head coach.

I think that Singletary is going to stay on as the 49ers head coach.

[kcbubb]

Since everyone seems to hate Herm, can someone please answer the questions below after reading the facts below first?

let's look at the facts.

the offensive line cannot pass protect in a traditional pro-style offense
2 QB's get hurt as a result of the line play
starting pro bowl running back is suspended for 4 games
backup runningback is injured and placed on injured reserve and out for season
#1 wide receiver almost leads the league in dropped passes
2 Defensive ends are on injured reserve (one of them a starter)
the other starting defensive end has been hurt half the season
half of the linebackers have been hurt for most of the season
one of the starting Cornerbacks has been hurt for most of the season
starting QB is a former 7th round pick that has never started before with one year of experience
over half the current roster is a rookie or second year player


Are these circumstances Herm's fault?

Could a good/great coach win significantly more games with these circumstances?

Considering these circumstances, can losing 7 games by 7 points or less be considered maximizing the current roster situation's potential? The Chiefs covered the spread in these games.

[Delano]

Why did Spagnuolo not take a job last year? Did he need more input on personnel decisions or was he just not ready?

[Zouk]

GM: Chris Polian
HC: Herm Edwards
OC: Chan Gailey
DC: Rod Marinelli

I have no idea if Polian will be good - but he has experience in scouting and acquiring talent that would fit the model of a Herm/Marinelli D, and a zone blocking Gailey offensive line. That makes it an excellent fit.

I think it's a mistake to bring in a guy like Cowher or Ryan because then Dorsey would not fit their preferred style of D.

[Chieftain58]

Marty Schottenheimer as GM

Herm Edwards as Coach

Replace Gunther Cunningham

[MahiMike]

Since everyone seems to hate Herm, can someone please answer the questions below after reading the facts below first?

let's look at the facts.

the offensive line cannot pass protect in a traditional pro-style offense
2 QB's get hurt as a result of the line play
starting pro bowl running back is suspended for 4 games
backup runningback is injured and placed on injured reserve and out for season
#1 wide receiver almost leads the league in dropped passes
2 Defensive ends are on injured reserve (one of them a starter)
the other starting defensive end has been hurt half the season
half of the linebackers have been hurt for most of the season
one of the starting Cornerbacks has been hurt for most of the season
starting QB is a former 7th round pick that has never started before with one year of experience
over half the current roster is a rookie or second year player


Are these circumstances Herm's fault?

Could a good/great coach win significantly more games with these circumstances?

Considering these circumstances, can losing 7 games by 7 points or less be considered maximizing the current roster situation's potential? The Chiefs covered the spread in these games.


I'm sorry, you lost me at "Herm". Then I just got pissed off.

[DaKCMan AP]

Marty Schottenheimer as GM

Herm Edwards as Coach

Replace Gunther Cunningham

:spock:

You and KCJ should go get a room.

[talastan]

Marty Schottenheimer as GM

Herm Edwards as Coach

Replace Gunther Cunningham

Although this wouldn't be my pick I could feasibly see this as a legitimate possiblity. I personally replace the HC with either Chin, or maybe the guy from the Giants.

[DaKCMan AP]

Although this wouldn't be my pick I could feasibly see this as a legitimate possiblity. I personally replace the HC with either Chin, or maybe the guy from the Giants.

If you listen to Clark's criteria, how the hell is Marty as GM a legitimate possibility?

[milkman]

Marty Schottenheimer as GM

Herm Edwards as Coach

Replace Gunther Cunningham

God dammit, the stupidity of the "true fan" is beyond fucking belief!

Holy fuck!

[OnTheWarpath15]

If you listen to Clark's criteria, how the hell is Marty as GM a legitimate possibility?

Because people DON'T listen.

They're too busy dreaming about the fucking '90's...

[DaneMcCloud]

God dammit, the stupidity of the "true fan" is beyond fucking belief!

Holy fuck!

It's awesome.

It's going to be like shooting fish in a barrel around here for the next 6 weeks.

ROFL

[ChiefsCountry]

Because people DON'T listen.

They're too busy dreaming about the ****ing '90's...

I'm glad Clark is in charge and not the majority of the people in this fanbase.

[eazyb81]

I'm glad Clark is in charge and not the majority of the people in this fanbase.

Just a few days ago people were lambasting Clark, saying he didn't care about winning and was cheap. Funny how quickly things change.

[ChiefsCountry]

Just a few days ago people were lambasting Clark, saying he didn't care about winning and was cheap. Funny how quickly things change.

I have never been on that record.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Just a few days ago people were lambasting Clark, saying he didn't care about winning and was cheap. Funny how quickly things change.

And for the most part, those are the same idiots were speaking about today.

[Chiefnj2]

Just a few days ago people were lambasting Clark, saying he didn't care about winning and was cheap. Funny how quickly things change.

A few weeks ago didn't Clark say he thought Herm and Carl were doing good jobs?

[CoMoChief]

GM: Ditka
HC: Ditka

[Chieftain58]

If you listen to Clark's criteria, how the hell is Marty as GM a legitimate possibility?

Because in a past Interview they had asked who Clark would like to see as the new GM and he said Schottenheimer. (I'll see if I can find it) and Schottenheimer has developed the teams he has been in charge of into contenders.

[DaneMcCloud]

Because in a past Interview they had asked who Clark would like to see as the new GM and he said Schottenheimer. (I'll see if I can find it) and Schottenheimer has developed the teams he has been in charge of into contenders.

ROFL

[CoMoChief]

Because in a past Interview they had asked who Clark would like to see as the new GM and he said Schottenheimer. (I'll see if I can find it) and Schottenheimer has developed the teams he has been in charge of into contenders.

Apparantly you're then only one in the KC area, or in the KC fanbase as a whole, that heard this.

[DaKCMan AP]

Because in a past Interview they had asked who Clark would like to see as the new GM and he said Schottenheimer. (I'll see if I can find it) and Schottenheimer has developed the teams he has been in charge of into contenders.

:rolleyes:

From MONDAY:

“I want somebody who’s a shrewd evaluator of football talent,” Hunt said. “(His) job will be 24/7 to think about the football team. That’s the most important quality. Obviously I’m looking for a strong leader, a good communicator, preferably somebody who has experience in building a winning NFL team.”


Marty has NEVER been a GM and has NO experience building a winning NFL team as a GM. HE DOES NOT MEET THE CRITERIA.

[Chiefnj2]

:rolleyes:

From MONDAY:

“I want somebody who’s a shrewd evaluator of football talent,” Hunt said. “(His) job will be 24/7 to think about the football team. That’s the most important quality. Obviously I’m looking for a strong leader, a good communicator, preferably somebody who has experience in building a winning NFL team.”


Marty has NEVER been a GM and has NO experience building a winning NFL team as a GM. HE DOES NOT MEET THE CRITERIA.

Where does Hunt use the word "GM"??

[DaKCMan AP]

Where does Hunt use the word "GM"??

That quote is from an article titled Hunt looking for ‘shrewd evaluator of football talent’ to replace Peterson.

The paragraph directly preceding the quote is:

"Clark Hunt wouldn’t identify any possible candidates to replace Carl Peterson as Chiefs general manager. Hunt, the Chiefs’ chairman, did reveal a list of qualities he’s looking for in Peterson’s replacement."

[Brock]

Where does Hunt use the word "GM"??

It was a press conference discussing the change at the GM position. Is it really necessary that he qualify his remarks in that manner?

[patteeu]

:rolleyes:

From MONDAY:

“I want somebody who’s a shrewd evaluator of football talent,” Hunt said. “(His) job will be 24/7 to think about the football team. That’s the most important quality. Obviously I’m looking for a strong leader, a good communicator, preferably somebody who has experience in building a winning NFL team.”


Marty has NEVER been a GM and has NO experience building a winning NFL team as a GM. HE DOES NOT MEET THE CRITERIA.

Hunt didn't say "as a GM". Pay attention.

[DaKCMan AP]

Hunt didn't say "as a GM". Pay attention.

That quote is from an article titled Hunt looking for ‘shrewd evaluator of football talent’ to replace Peterson.

The paragraph directly preceding the quote is:

"Clark Hunt wouldn’t identify any possible candidates to replace Carl Peterson as Chiefs general manager. Hunt, the Chiefs’ chairman, did reveal a list of qualities he’s looking for in Peterson’s replacement."

Maybe you should pay attention.

[patteeu]

That quote is from an article titled Hunt looking for ‘shrewd evaluator of football talent’ to replace Peterson.

The paragraph directly preceding the quote is:

"Clark Hunt wouldn’t identify any possible candidates to replace Carl Peterson as Chiefs general manager. Hunt, the Chiefs’ chairman, did reveal a list of qualities he’s looking for in Peterson’s replacement."

Maybe you should pay attention.

Yes, Hunt is looking to replace the general manager, but no, when he rattled off the qualities he's looking for in a new GM, he didn't say anything about looking for someone who has experience as a GM. :rolleyes:

[DaKCMan AP]

Yes, Hunt is looking to replace the general manager, but no, when he rattled off the qualities he's looking for in a new GM, he didn't say anything about looking for someone who has experience as a GM. :rolleyes:

Did he state so explicitly? No. However, he is looking for someone who "has experience in building a winning NFL team." I interpret that as someone who has experience in building a winning NFL team from the management side, not coaching. How many coaches have made the successful transition to GM?

Marty doesn't have any experience outside of coaching.

[FloridaMan88]

For the people who want to keep Herm... I'd like you to list 5 things he has accomplished during his 3 seasons in KC to justify your desire to keep him on as head coach.

[Chiefnj2]

I interpret that ...

Enough said.

[mylittlepony]

GM- Scott Pioli
HC- Spag
OC- Chan Gailey(?)
DC- Sean McDermott

Pioli to draft quality guys. Spag to run the team. Gailey because he knows how to work with a limited offense. And McDermott who comes from the Jim Johnson school and knows Spag and both are big faith guys. Who better to run his D?

[DaKCMan AP]

Enough said.

:stupid:

What did you think he was talking about? Hiring a HC with no management experience to be GM? Brilliant!

[kcbubb]

For the people who want to keep Herm... I'd like you to list 5 things he has accomplished during his 3 seasons in KC to justify your desire to keep him on as head coach.


Brandon Flowers
Brandon Albert
Dwayne Bowe
Maurice Leggett
Brandon Carr
J. Charles
Kolby Smith
Jarrad Page
Tyler Thigpen
Glenn Dorsey
Tank Tyler

Development of these young players. people say they want to win a superbowl. You have to develop a good roster to achieve that. The roster is developing.

[chiefzilla1501]

For the people who want to keep Herm... I'd like you to list 5 things he has accomplished during his 3 seasons in KC to justify your desire to keep him on as head coach.

I'm on the small train of people who wants the GM to have the power to choose who he wants, but doesn't think Herm is nearly as bad as people say:

#1 - there has been a LOT of talk especially after the Peterson firing that Herm tried to rebuild a long time ago and was met with resistance every time from Peterson. The Chiefs needed to rebuild and finally did in 2008, and that was largely due to Herm
#2 - For as stubborn as people claim he is, he let Chan Gailey coach and didn't butt in, even if it went against his conservative philosophy
#3 - Even if the Chiefs don't pull off wins, there is no doubt that the team has improved markedly (they are losing close games) and they are easily the most motivated losing team in the NFL
#4 - If the 2008 draft and personnel moves are a sign of what's to come, it's a huge step in the right direction. It was one of the best drafts in team history and we also made a lot of underrated off-draft moves, such as bringing in Bradley, Mike Cox, Maurice Leggett, and even Boiman and Babin have turned out to be surprisingly decent depth pickups.
#5 - He committed to the youth movement and, with the exception of McIntosh, has held true to that promise. He has cut starters in mid-season (i.e. Sams, Novak, Harris), he has changed starters around (i.e. McBride over Boone, Carr over Surtain, Leggett over Brackenridge, Bradley over Darling, Barth over Novak, Tyler over Edwards)

I have said many times that I don't know if Herm is the right coach to take this team to the next level, so I'd have no problem with him leaving after this season. But I have never, ever seen a bigger scapegoat and don't understand why some people can't see any positive. Even if a new head coach were to take over next season, I guarantee that we'll look back five years from now and be glad that Herm had the balls to commit to the rebuild even against a powerful GM who did everything in his power to squash it.

[melbar]

I like Polian GM and
Cower HC

Polian is fresh and still has experience and success.

Cower is a good teacher and coach. I think this team needs a guy who can come in and demand respect. They need a firm hand. A young guy who hasnt been there may turn out to be a great guy, but we have a young team and I think they need leadership. I think Herm is too much of a buddy-buddy guy.

[ChiefsCountry]

Cowher is going to coach either the Redskins or Panthers maybe the Browns if they give him full control.

[The Bad Guy]

Brandon Flowers
Brandon Albert
Dwayne Bowe
Maurice Leggett
Brandon Carr
J. Charles
Kolby Smith
Jarrad Page
Tyler Thigpen
Glenn Dorsey
Tank Tyler

Development of these young players. people say they want to win a superbowl. You have to develop a good roster to achieve that. The roster is developing.

So Herm is the only one who can develop these players?

Some of you dumb fuckers should hold a telethon so you can get some free money.

[OnTheWarpath15]

So Herm is the only one who can develop these players?

Some of you dumb fuckers should hold a telethon so you can get some free money.

ROFL

[ArrowheadHawk]

I don't care who the GM and Head Coach are so long as they turn this scrapheap of a team we have around.