Do You Suffer from TFS? True Fan Syndrome? If So, We Can Help

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Do you lie awake at nights dreaming of 8-8, or 9-7?

Do you judge a season as a success by a Wild Card birth?

Do you believe that defenses and running games are more important than franchise QBs?

Do you hate wide receivers?

Do you love coaches with a complete inability to spot talent at the running back position?

Do you think that 3-13 is better for the long term future of the franchise than 2-14?

Do you think the 2002 Bucs and 2000 Ravens are model NFL teams to aspire to?

Do you find playoff records to be irrelevant?

Do you believe that guards and right tackles should be taken with top five picks?

Do you believe that a quarterback is best served as a game manager?

Do you believe that every 3rd Down play should either be a screen or a draw?

Do you believe kicker is the most important position on the offense?

Do you believe that all of the best prospects reside in the Big XII?

Do you believe in trading down in any situation during the draft?

Do you believe that a team is better served picking 20 rather than 5 because they don't have to pay the player as much?

Do you believe that the only way to be a winning team is to throw money at the most expensive Free Agents every year, regardless of need?

Do you judge QBOTF by their box scores?

Do you think that risk is scary, and therefore, wish to draft last in every round to avoid the perception of failure?

Do you think that Marty and Bill Cowher are the only two coaches left on the planet?

Do you think that Gunther was once a great coordinator?

Do you think that reaction is safer than action?

Do you think every other team that actually drafted a QBOTF just 'got lucky' and that it could never happen to us?

Is your name [alias of claythan and hootie]?

Do you prefer tailgating to Championships?

Do you fear the unknown?

Do you believe that 'being close in the 4th quarter' is the objective of an offense?

Do you believe that the run sets up the pass?

Do you believe that Stafford "has done nothing worth mentioning" in college?

Do you think QBs don't need to know how to play from under the center, and that learning 5 and 7 step drops is irrelevant because once Thigpen completed a 7 yard pass to a hall of fame tight end in quadruple coverage?



If so, you may suffer from TFS, True Fan Syndrome. Here at the ChiefsPlanet Clinic, our staff of experts can help rid you of this debilitating malady. Through study of game tape of such contests as Super Bowl XXIII we can help ameliorate the effects of play not to lose football.

Upon registering at our world-renowned clinic, you will be given the following ID badge:

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u159/robrabies/tfs.gif
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u159/robrabies/tfs.gif

After six weeks of therapy, our cure rate for TFS approaches 91%, which ironically, is slightly better than Herm Edwards' losing percentage the last 23 games.

If you or a loved one suffers from TFS, please, contact us immediately.

We're here to help.

Sincerely,

The ChiefsPlanet Clinic

[DaneMcCloud]

I love Playoff Births.

They're much less messy than human births.

:p

[The Franchise]

This should turn out beautifully.:popcorn:

[OnTheWarpath15]

ROFL

[ArrowheadHawk]

Do you enjoy watching your team lose?

If the answer is yes than you might be a retard.

[Deberg_1990]

Classic.

[MikeMaslowski]

I love Playoff Births.

They're much less messy than human births.

:p

You have to score to get both though..... Can you get laid if you have TFS?

[L.A. Chieffan]

Marty and Chase Daniels would be so awesome

[Crush]

I feel a HOC nominee in the making.

[DaneMcCloud]

Marty and Chase Daniels would be so awesome

Reesing, man, Reesing.

FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(*#U)(#*YR)#8yr8ytw498ytp

[OnTheWarpath15]

If only Hamas had mod powers, and could put that ID badge in the signatures of posters he felt were deserving.

[ArrowheadHawk]

If only Hamas had mod powers, and could put that ID badge in the signatures of posters he felt were deserving.

Or not.

[DJ's left nut]

Do you think Josh Freeman is an NFL quarterback in waiting?....

My point: There is more than one classification of retard on this board. One shouldn't throw stones...

[The Franchise]

If only Hamas had mod powers, and could put that ID badge in the signatures of posters he felt were deserving.

ROFL

[MOhillbilly]

If only Hamas had mod powers, and could put that ID badge in the signatures of posters he felt were deserving.

lowd almighty thatd be friggin sweet.

[OnTheWarpath15]

lowd almighty thatd be friggin sweet.

It would make sifting through the rubble of this place a shit-ton easier, dontchathink?

[Rain Man]

The first one is a trick question. You can't lie awake and still be dreaming.

[The Franchise]

Can I get one that says 12-4? That number just sounds good to me.

[MOhillbilly]

It would make sifting through the rubble of this place a shit-ton easier, dontchathink?


not to mention the hilarity thatd insue.

[Rooster]

My point: There is more than one classification of retard on this board. One shouldn't throw stones...

True dat.

[FringeNC]

Worshipping Gunther Cunningham is a SURE sign one has full-blown TFS.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

The first one is a trick question. You can't lie awake and still be dreaming.

Here, take this bar of soap and head into that shower with all those other people over there.

[luv]

What about going to games even when your team sucks?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Do you think Josh Freeman is an NFL quarterback in waiting?....

My point: There is more than one classification of retard on this board. One shouldn't throw stones...

I hate Freeman, FWIW.

[Mark M]

Do you believe kicker is the most important position on the offense?

If so, you're not suffering from TFS -- you're a fucking idiot who doesn't know kickers are on special teams, not offense.

;)

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna grab some popcorn ...

MM
~~:)

[Crush]

Worshipping Gunther Cunningham is a SURE sign one has full-blown TFS.


According to my non-existent medical knowledge, the worship of Gunther Cunningham is a symptom of full-blown TFS. There is no cure for full-blown TFS.

[DJ's left nut]

I hate Freeman, FWIW.

Really? Must've had my sarcasm meter off that day.

In which case, stone throwing portion redacted as to you (but not Freeman fanboys posting in this thread, he sucks baws), rest of post remains in effect.

Carry on.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

According to my non-existent medical knowledge, the worship of Gunther Cunningham is a symptom of full-blown TFS. There is no cure for full-blown TFS.

Of course there is:

kill yourself.

[DJ's left nut]

According to my non-existent medical knowledge, the worship of Gunther Cunningham is a symptom of full-blown TFS. There is no cure for full-blown TFS.

Antifreeze.

[MOhillbilly]

According to my non-existent medical knowledge, the worship of Gunther Cunningham is a symptom of full-blown TFS. There is no cure for full-blown TFS.
http://www.highenergyconstructs.com/hecla/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/shocked%20nazi.JPG

what happens to em'?

[Chris Meck]

running games and defenses more important than franchise QB's?

Hmm. yep. I do. See Dan Marino. See John Elway's first 3 SB teams. See all three of the Giants SB winning teams. See Pittsburgh.

unless you really think Eli Manning and Ben Roethlisberger are truly elite QB's. In which case I don't know what to tell you.

Franchise QB won't get you squat if you can't block anybody, tackle anybody, or run the ball.

That being said, I'm not against drafting a QB, I just don't think it's all that wise to take one at the top of the draft.

[KCCHIEFS27]

Okay, I'm in..now what is it you do to help me? Pull out my scrotum for you to lick, you say?! Wait, am I being cured or is this just for your pleasure?

[Crush]

Kill oneself with antifreeze? Touche.

[Simply Red]

If only Hamas had mod powers, and could put that ID badge in the signatures of posters he felt were deserving.

FUCK HAMAS

[Crush]

what happens to em'?

They become in engulfed in the mediocrity and defend it until their last breathe. Therefore, they are incapable of participating in a rational conversation.

[Reerun_KC]

running games and defenses more important than franchise QB's?

Hmm. yep. I do. See Dan Marino. See John Elway's first 3 SB teams. See all three of the Giants SB winning teams. See Pittsburgh.

unless you really think Eli Manning and Ben Roethlisberger are truly elite QB's. In which case I don't know what to tell you.

Franchise QB won't get you squat if you can't block anybody, tackle anybody, or run the ball.

That being said, I'm not against drafting a QB, I just don't think it's all that wise to take one at the top of the draft.

True Fan Alert!!!!!!

Herm just got a ball massage...

[ChiefsCountry]

running games and defenses more important than franchise QB's?

Hmm. yep. I do. See Dan Marino. See John Elway's first 3 SB teams. See all three of the Giants SB winning teams. See Pittsburgh.

unless you really think Eli Manning and Ben Roethlisberger are truly elite QB's. In which case I don't know what to tell you.

Franchise QB won't get you squat if you can't block anybody, tackle anybody, or run the ball.

That being said, I'm not against drafting a QB, I just don't think it's all that wise to take one at the top of the draft.

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u159/robrabies/tfs.gif

[Hammock Parties]

I love Playoff Births.

They're much less messy than human births.

:p

I have corrected that error more times than I care to count. :doh!:

[CoMoChief]

Do you lie awake at nights dreaming of 8-8, or 9-7?

Do you judge a season as a success by a Wild Card birth?

Do you believe that defenses and running games are more important than franchise QBs?

Do you hate wide receivers?

Do you love coaches with a complete inability to spot talent at the running back position?

Do you think that 3-13 is better for the long term future of the franchise than 2-14?

Do you think the 2002 Bucs and 2000 Ravens are model NFL teams to aspire to?

Do you find playoff records to be irrelevant?

Do you believe that guards and right tackles should be taken with top five picks?

Do you believe that a quarterback is best served as a game manager?

Do you believe that every 3rd Down play should either be a screen or a draw?

Do you believe kicker is the most important position on the offense?

Do you believe that all of the best prospects reside in the Big XII?

Do you believe in trading down in any situation during the draft?

Do you believe that a team is better served picking 20 rather than 5 because they don't have to pay the player as much?


If so, you may suffer from TFS, True Fan Syndrome. Here at the ChiefsPlanet Clinic, our staff of experts can help rid you of this debilitating malady. Through study of game tape of such contests as Super Bowl XXIII we can help ameliorate the effects of play not to lose football.

Upon registering at our world-renowned clinic, you will be given the following ID badge:

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u159/robrabies/tfs.gif

After six weeks of therapy, our cure rate for TFS approaches 91%, which ironically, is slightly better than Herm Edwards' losing percentage the last 23 games.

If you or a loved one suffers from TFS, please, contact us immediately.

We're here to help.

Sincerely,

The ChiefsPlanet Clinic

By all means the Chiefs should just fuckin hire you as their new HC and give you all the power in the world.

Sounds like you know what you're doing and everyone else doesn't.

[Buck]

Question, am I allowed to join?

[philfree]

running games and defenses more important than franchise QB's?

Hmm. yep. I do. See Dan Marino. See John Elway's first 3 SB teams. See all three of the Giants SB winning teams. See Pittsburgh.
unless you really think Eli Manning and Ben Roethlisberger are truly elite QB's. In which case I don't know what to tell you.

Franchise QB won't get you squat if you can't block anybody, tackle anybody, or run the ball.

That being said, I'm not against drafting a QB, I just don't think it's all that wise to take one at the top of the draft.

Baltimore when they won it all and Tampa too! I like the idea of drafting Stafford if he's available. Those things being equal am I a true fan?

PhilFree:arrow:

[HemiEd]

Oh good, another person calling people out about their fandom. That was one of the first things they taught me here, it is unacceptable.

Bottom fucking line, this team is whatever the person wants it to be to THEM!

Fuck losing, it fucking sucks. If Herm motherfucking Edwards was as good at winning is he is losing, this team would be super bowl bound.

[HemiEd]

**** HAMAS

I am starting to think that way. fucking n00bs!

[RedThat]

Do you lie awake at nights dreaming of 8-8, or 9-7? Heck no. I only dream of SB's and dynasty teams

Do you judge a season as a success by a Wild Card birth?It depends if the team was either worse the year before or better the year before. I like to think of myself as judging a season based on either progression or regression.

Do you believe that defenses and running games are more important than franchise QBs?Nope. I don't think like that at all. I highly value the QB position and realize and understand the importance of it. But I think too much focus and emphasis on 1 position over others makes you lose sight on the value of other positions. I realize it's a team game and I keep my vision directed towards the team. Ive come to known every position is important. But the most important imo is having a good set of guys in your pro personnel department that have a sound plan that have the ability to scout players and work in conjunction with a good coaching staff beside them.

Do you hate wide receivers? No.

Do you love coaches with a complete inability to spot talent at the running back position? No. I love coaches that have "keen" eye for everywhere

Do you think that 3-13 is better for the long term future of the franchise than 2-14? No. I think what matters and what is better for the long term is having the right people up top. That's where it all starts

Do you think the 2002 Bucs and 2000 Ravens are model NFL teams to aspire to?I aspire those teams defenses for sure. But personally, I prefer a strong balanced attack team that is well built on both sides of the ball. Those teams would be cowboys, 49ers, Pats

Do you find playoff records to be irrelevant?No. They say a lot about a franchise whether they're successful or not.

Do you believe that guards and right tackles should be taken with top five picks? It depends. Its tough to answer that because what if those players at those positions are hall of famers? I believe in getting a good player anywhere if he can start and make a difference on my team.

Do you believe that a quarterback is best served as a game manager?No absolutely not. Unless you're a team like the 2000 Ravens or 2002 Bucs? that have great defenses and depend on their defenses to win and ask there QBs to play simple?

Do you believe that every 3rd Down play should either be a screen or a draw?
Depends on the field position? If youre pinned in your own end I agree with running the ball or doing a simple screen play. If youre at the opponents end or at midfield, I don't agree with it. Im more for taking chances on 3rd down if youre at midfield or the opponents territory. Taking chances in your own end is suicidal.

Do you believe kicker is the most important position on the offense?No. Offensive line and QB are the most important.

Do you believe that all of the best prospects reside in the Big XII?No.

Do you believe in trading down in any situation during the draft? Im a big fan of trading down if you can get a ton of picks why not? Im not a beleiver that drafting in the top 5 and landing a superstar is going to make your team 25 times better. You need a whole group of guys. It's about drafting well overall that makes a difference.More picks the marier if it means you'll be better team for it. I refuse to think outside team. This is a team game. 1 guy isn't going to improve your team.

Do you believe that a team is better served picking 20 rather than 5 because they don't have to pay the player as much?Im not concerned about the cash. Im not paying those guys the Hunts are. So why would I care? I will say though to me it doesn't make a difference drafting 20th or 5th. What matters is how you draft through rounds 1-7.


If so, you may suffer from TFS, True Fan Syndrome. Here at the ChiefsPlanet Clinic, our staff of experts can help rid you of this debilitating malady. Through study of game tape of such contests as Super Bowl XXIII we can help ameliorate the effects of play not to lose football.

Upon registering at our world-renowned clinic, you will be given the following ID badge:

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u159/robrabies/tfs.gif

After six weeks of therapy, our cure rate for TFS approaches 91%, which ironically, is slightly better than Herm Edwards' losing percentage the last 23 games.

If you or a loved one suffers from TFS, please, contact us immediately.

We're here to help.

Sincerely,

The ChiefsPlanet Clinic

So Hamas..where would you rank me as a fan? Am I suffering from TFS? If so, do you reccomend that I kill myself?

[007]

You have to score to get both though..... Can you get laid if you have TFS?No, but you can get fucked.

[ChiefsCountry]

Can you get laid if you have TFS?

Do you like the butt secks, bc that is what happens with TFS.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

So Hamas..where would you rank me as a fan? Am I suffering from TFS? If so, do you reccomend that I kill myself?

It would appear as though you have Stage II TFS. There is a 72% cure rate. You will be forced to watch tape of the 1994 49ers for three weeks as videotherapy.

I suggest that you get your things in order, for if you continue to say things like Dorsey is a bust, your TFS may be present in the frontal lobe, which would indicate euthanasia as the only course.

Your TFS Primary Care Counselor will be OnTheWarpath58.

[OnTheWarpath15]

It would appear as though you have Stage II TFS. There is a 72% cure rate. You will be forced to watch tape of the 1994 49ers for three weeks as videotherapy.

I suggest that you get your things in order, for if you continue to say things like Dorsey is a bust, your TFS may be present in the frontal lobe, which would indicate euthanasia as the only course.

Your TFS Primary Care Counselor will be OnTheWarpath58.

Goddammit.

It's finals week.

I need someone that has a better chance of being cured.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

running games and defenses more important than franchise QB's?

Hmm. yep. I do. See Dan Marino. See John Elway's first 3 SB teams. See all three of the Giants SB winning teams. See Pittsburgh.

unless you really think Eli Manning and Ben Roethlisberger are truly elite QB's. In which case I don't know what to tell you.

Franchise QB won't get you squat if you can't block anybody, tackle anybody, or run the ball.

That being said, I'm not against drafting a QB, I just don't think it's all that wise to take one at the top of the draft.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d8/LethalInjectionCoverArt.jpg

[ArrowheadHawk]

http://www.funnyforumpics.com/forums/this-thread-sucks/9/Thread-Crap-FingerBaby.jpg

[luv]

What about going to games even when your team sucks?

?

[StcChief]

Now that Carl is gone effective 31-Dec-08 I will go back to being a "REAL" fan and show up when I want. :D

[Carlota69]

I love Playoff Births.

They're much less messy than human births.

:p

Are you saying our season is an abortion?

Oh..yeah, nevermind...

[HemiEd]

I prescribe Hamas should be strapped to a chair with his eyes taped open. Not to be released until he has watched every Marvy Levy, John Mackovic, Paul Wiggin and Frank Ganz coached Chiefs game, back to back. Then, as a refresher, 3 years of Herm ****ing Edwards on FFWD.

10-6 will then seem like a cool evening breeze, after a hot summer day.

[Chris Meck]

Oh, what the hell. Let's go ahead and draft Schuler in the first. Oh, I mean Mirer. I mean Klingler. I mean Harrington. No wait, I mean Carr. DOH! I meant Leaf! Or...

I will forever maintain that a high #1 pick on a QB is the riskiest pick there is. I have watched so many fail. If that's what we do, well, I'll cross my fingers and hope for the best, but I don't agree that it's the wisest plan of attack.

[Baby Lee]

Do you thank spending decades wading through franchise QB contracts spent on, JaMarcus Russell, Vince Young, Matt Leinart, Cutler, Alex Smith, Carson Palmer, Byron Leftwich, David Carr, Joey Harrington, Michael Vick, Chad Pennington, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Daunte Culpepper and Ryan Leaf is worth the chance to get the Manning brothers.

There are teams that found themselves on premier WRs and QBs, it's the Lions, Cardinals, and the Vikes of the 90s.

[Adept Havelock]

I prescribe Hamas should be strapped to a chair with his eyes taped open. Not to be released until he has watched every Marvy Levy, John Mackovic, Paul Wiggin and Frank Ganz coached Chiefs game, back to back. Then, as a refresher, 3 years of Herm ****ing Edwards on FFWD.

10-6 will then seem like a cool evening breeze, after a hot summer day.

That seems reasonable. Force him to watch every game from '73 until '89 in a continual loop. :thumb:

[HemiEd]

That seems reasonable. Force him to watch every game from '73 until '89 in a continual loop. :thumb:

All in favor say I!

[Baby Lee]

What about going to games even when your team sucks?

The manner in which you bitch about your team is much more important than whether or not you actually support them.

Oh. and your a mindless sheep who lines corporate pockets regardless of quality.

[DeezNutz]

The new scarlet letter of the Planet. TFS.

May I help pin them on?

[FringeNC]

Do you thank spending decades wading through franchise QB contracts spent on, JaMarcus Russell, Vince Young, Matt Leinart, Cutler, Alex Smith, Carson Palmer, Byron Leftwich, David Carr, Joey Harrington, Michael Vick, Chad Pennington, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Daunte Culpepper and Ryan Leaf is worth the chance to get the Manning brothers.


I'm probably in the minority, but I don't think franchise QBs are drafted so much as they are developed. How many Pro Bowl QBs has Mike Martz been associated with?

Some staffs realize the importance of having a top QB in the playoffs, and attempt to develop them; other staffs hope that it's all luck once you get to the playoffs, and have game managers.

[SAUTO]

I prescribe Hamas should be strapped to a chair with his eyes taped open. Not to be released until he has watched every Marvy Levy, John Mackovic, Paul Wiggin and Frank Ganz coached Chiefs game, back to back. Then, as a refresher, 3 years of Herm ****ing Edwards on FFWD.

10-6 will then seem like a cool evening breeze, after a hot summer day.

true that!!!

[DaneMcCloud]

I'm probably in the minority, but I don't think franchise QBs are drafted so much as they are developed. How many Pro Bowl QBs has Mike Martz been associated with?

Two? Marc Bulger and Kurt Warner.

Woo-hoo! He's a genius!

[philfree]

Oh, what the hell. Let's go ahead and draft Schuler in the first. Oh, I mean Mirer. I mean Klingler. I mean Harrington. No wait, I mean Carr. DOH! I meant Leaf! Or...

I will forever maintain that a high #1 pick on a QB is the riskiest pick there is. I have watched so many fail. If that's what we do, well, I'll cross my fingers and hope for the best, but I don't agree that it's the wisest plan of attack.

I agree with that but the payoff could be huge. Which is why teams take the risk win they have the chance.

PhilFree:arrow:

[DeezNutz]

I'm probably in the minority, but I don't think franchise QBs are drafted so much as they are developed. How many Pro Bowl QBs has Mike Martz been associated with?

Some staffs realize the importance of having a top QB in the playoffs, and attempt to develop them; other staffs hope that it's all luck once you get to the playoffs, and have game managers.

You're not really describing a franchise QB, then. In other words, do you think that there was a very good possibility that P. Manning, Elway, Marino, etc. would fail? That their superior talent wouldn't have ultimately won out?

Players like Green, Bulger, and Warner can be very nice system guys. These are players high-quality staffs can develop, and they're also players that can be ruined, completely.

We've had only system QB's in KC for the last, well, 20+ years. We need a franchise guy, and now we're drafting high enough that this *might* be a good opportunity to get one. Might.

[DaneMcCloud]

I'm probably in the minority, but I don't think franchise QBs are drafted so much as they are developed.

Great quarterbacks are GREAT regardless.

John Elway, Joe Montana, Brett Favre, Dan Marino, Dan Fouts, etc.

Sure, they make mistakes but no one needs to teach them the game or correct their mechanics or decision making skills.

If you draft a first round QB, he'd better be 90% "developed". Otherwise, you're wasting your time and the team's ability to compete.

[Reerun_KC]

Goddammit.

It's finals week.

I need someone that has a better chance of being cured.

I am sick of finals! tonight is the last fucking night!

[SAUTO]

Great quarterbacks are GREAT regardless.

John Elway, Joe Montana, Brett Favre, Dan Marino, Dan Fouts, etc.

Sure, they make mistakes but no one needs to teach them the game or correct their mechanics or decision making skills.

If you draft a first round QB, he'd better be 90% "developed". Otherwise, you're wasting your time and the team's ability to compete.

dane do you see any this year? in your opinion

[FringeNC]

You're not really describing a franchise QB, then. In other words, do you think that there was a very good possibility that P. Manning, Elway, Marino, etc. would fail? That their superior talent wouldn't have ultimately won out?

Players like Green, Bulger, and Warner can be very nice system guys. These are players high-quality staffs can develop, and they're also players that can be ruined, completely.

We've had only system QB's in KC for the last, well, 20+ years. We need a franchise guy, and now we're drafting high enough that this *might* be a good opportunity to get one. Might.

The numbers Warner put up were sick. It's all about being able to pass in the playoffs -- finding a QB who excels in the system you put him in. Sure, only a few QBs could excel in ALL, but a team only runs one system at a time.

[ChiefsCountry]

We've had only system QB's in KC for the last, well, 20+ years. We need a franchise guy, and now we're drafting high enough that this *might* be a good opportunity to get one. Might.

Try over 35+ plus.

[FringeNC]

Great quarterbacks are GREAT regardless.

John Elway, Joe Montana, Brett Favre, Dan Marino, Dan Fouts, etc.

Sure, they make mistakes but no one needs to teach them the game or correct their mechanics or decision making skills.

If you draft a first round QB, he'd better be 90% "developed". Otherwise, you're wasting your time and the team's ability to compete.

Is Kurt Warner not a great QB?

[Reerun_KC]

I prescribe Hamas should be strapped to a chair with his eyes taped open. Not to be released until he has watched every Marvy Levy, John Mackovic, Paul Wiggin and Frank Ganz coached Chiefs game, back to back. Then, as a refresher, 3 years of Herm ****ing Edwards on FFWD.

10-6 will then seem like a cool evening breeze, after a hot summer day.

Cool, but I think you should have to masturbate with a cheesegrader while watching everyone of Herms press conferences, you know just to help your fandom...

[FringeNC]

Two? Marc Bulger and Kurt Warner.

Woo-hoo! He's a genius!

Trent Green.

[ChiefsCountry]

Two? Marc Bulger and Kurt Warner.

Woo-hoo! He's a genius!

If you are putting Bulger in there, you better put Green in as well. Martz was his coach in Washington and St. Louis.

[Baby Lee]

You're not really describing a franchise QB, then. In other words, do you think that there was a very good possibility that P. Manning, Elway, Marino, etc. would fail? That their superior talent wouldn't have ultimately won out?

Players like Green, Bulger, and Warner can be very nice system guys. These are players high-quality staffs can develop, and they're also players that can be ruined, completely.

We've had only system QB's in KC for the last, well, 20+ years. We need a franchise guy, and now we're drafting high enough that this *might* be a good opportunity to get one. Might.


Marino 'succeeded?' One rookie season SB loss [which per the Cowher rule doesn't count], and a career of playoff failure, culminating in the 50-0 playoff loss his final season.

Marino's the poster boy for RTFdom.

[Baby Lee]

If you are putting Bulger in there, you better put Green in as well. Martz was his coach in Washington and St. Louis.

Kitna was never better than his time with Martz.

[FringeNC]

Great quarterbacks are GREAT regardless.

John Elway, Joe Montana, Brett Favre, Dan Marino, Dan Fouts, etc.

Sure, they make mistakes but no one needs to teach them the game or correct their mechanics or decision making skills.

If you draft a first round QB, he'd better be 90% "developed". Otherwise, you're wasting your time and the team's ability to compete.

You take Elway with Dan Reeves instead of Shanahan, and I'll take Martz with Warner, and see who wins.

[DaneMcCloud]

If you are putting Bulger in there, you better put Green in as well. Martz was his coach in Washington and St. Louis.

I don't follow the Rams but did Bulger make the Pro Bowl under Martz? Green never did and was always a third QB at the Pro-Bowl, not the first or second.

[milkman]

You're not really describing a franchise QB, then. In other words, do you think that there was a very good possibility that P. Manning, Elway, Marino, etc. would fail? That their superior talent wouldn't have ultimately won out?

Players like Green, Bulger, and Warner can be very nice system guys. These are players high-quality staffs can develop, and they're also players that can be ruined, completely.

We've had only system QB's in KC for the last, well, 20+ years. We need a franchise guy, and now we're drafting high enough that this *might* be a good opportunity to get one. Might.

Actually every QB in Chiefs franchise history, including Dawson, were system QBs.

But you have the right QB that fits your system then he can still be a franchise QB.

[HemiEd]

Cool, but I think you should have to masturbate with a cheesegrader while watching everyone of Herms press conferences, you know just to help your fandom...

Why? I am no Herm Edwards fan and he will only look up to mediocrity, as long as he is the coach. His only shot was 9-7 with DV's team, game over.

[DaneMcCloud]

You take Elway with Dan Reeves instead of Shanahan, and I'll take Martz with Warner, and see who wins.

You lose.

Furthermore, Kurt Warner is a great QB for one reason and one reason only:

Kurt Warner.

The guy played Arena League, World League and sat on the bench in St. Louis before playing. No one "developed" him but himself.

To think otherwise is naive.

[FringeNC]

You lose.



ROFL

[Reerun_KC]

Why? I am no Herm Edwards fan and he will only look up to mediocrity, as long as he is the coach. His only shot was 9-7 with DV's team, game over.

I know ED, I was just fucking with you.... Besides it sounded funny, I think I just might of given the Herm Supporters something to do for the evening...

[DaneMcCloud]

ROFL

Elway went to five Super Bowls, winning two.

Warner went to two Super Bowls, winning one.

If you're trying to make the argument that Warner is a more talented and better QB than Elway, you lose.

Hands down.

[HemiEd]

I know ED, I was just ****ing with you.... Besides it sounded funny, I think I just might of given the Herm Supporters something to do for the evening...

Damn, they will be sorry tomorrow.

[The Bad Guy]

Oh, what the hell. Let's go ahead and draft Schuler in the first. Oh, I mean Mirer. I mean Klingler. I mean Harrington. No wait, I mean Carr. DOH! I meant Leaf! Or...

I will forever maintain that a high #1 pick on a QB is the riskiest pick there is. I have watched so many fail. If that's what we do, well, I'll cross my fingers and hope for the best, but I don't agree that it's the wisest plan of attack.

Afraid to fail.

There may be no cure for you.

[The Bad Guy]

I would have to agree that Kurt Warner is basically a self-made QB. The guy was left for dead after his time with the New York Giants, and he's turned into an MVP candidate in Arizona.

He just seriously might be the most incredible NFL story ever.

[SAUTO]

I would have to agree that Kurt Warner is basically a WIFE-made QB. The guy was left for dead after his time with the New York Giants, and he's turned into an MVP candidate in Arizona.

He just seriously might be the most incredible NFL story ever.

FYP

[ChiefsCountry]

It is kind of ironic that Warner had the best WR combo in St. Louis and then again in Arizona.

[FringeNC]

Elway went to five Super Bowls, winning two.

Warner went to two Super Bowls, winning one.

If you're trying to make the argument that Warner is a more talented and better QB than Elway, you lose.

Hands down.

He went to three with Dan Reeves as his HC when the AFC was a joke, and got blown out three times. He went with Shanahan, running a sophisticated offense, and won twice. Look at Elway's numbers pre- and post- Reeves. He's a completely different QB. Is Elway better than Warner -- yeah, but coaching and scheme MATTER, and the combination of Warner and Martz would blow away Elway and Reeves. Not even close.

[HemiEd]

I would have to agree that Kurt Warner is basically a self-made QB. The guy was left for dead after his time with the New York Giants, and he's turned into an MVP candidate in Arizona.

He just seriously might be the most incredible NFL story ever.

Do you think there is anything to the fact, that he may have had time to heal?
He got seriously beaten up during the end of his time in St. Louis, and almost seemed like a "dead man walking."
I wonder how many concussions he got in St. Louis?

I am not making light of the fact, he is an incredible story.

[DeezNutz]

Marino 'succeeded?' One rookie season SB loss [which per the Cowher rule doesn't count], and a career of playoff failure, culminating in the 50-0 playoff loss his final season.

Marino's the poster boy for RTFdom.

Yeah, he's a franchise QB. This doesn't mean that you're 100 percent assured a SB victory, but it greatly increases your odds that it will happen.

Was Elway any better at the very end of his career when he finally got the victory? Not hardly. He was great long before this, and not winning the SB wouldn't have changed this fact.

[milkman]

Yeah, he's a franchise QB. This doesn't mean that you're 100 percent assured a SB victory, but it greatly increases your odds that it will happen.

Was Elway any better at the very end of his career when he finally got the victory? Not hardly. He was great long before this, and not winning the SB wouldn't have changed this fact.

What a franchise QB does is allow you to have a chance to compete at a SB caliber level consistenly for a number of years, provided that you put the pieces in place elswhere.

Game managers of the world might have that one season where they overachieve, or the team around them plays historically good (like the Ravens defense).

But teams like that can not sustain excellence consistently through years.

[DeezNutz]

What a franchise QB does is allow you to have a chance to compete at a SB caliber level consistenly for a number of years, provided that you put the pieces in place elswhere.

Game managers of the world might have that one season where they overachieve, or the team around them plays historically good (like the Ravens defense).

But teams like that can not sustain excellence consistently through years.

I agree with this completely.

A good question would be, can you (the Planet at large) name a franchise QB who never reached the SB? Don't have to win it. Just get there.

[Adept Havelock]

I agree with this completely.

A good question would be, can you (the Planet at large) name a franchise QB who never reached the SB? Don't have to win it. Just get there.

Archie Manning.

[DeezNutz]

Archie Manning.

Hmmm...is this a franchise guy? Only two pro-bowl years, terrible TD-INT ratio, but played for the 'Aints. Tough call.

This is before my time, so I defer to the Skips on the board. :)

[Adept Havelock]

Hmmm...is this a franchise guy? Only two pro-bowl years, terrible TD-INT ratio, but played for the 'Aints. Tough call.

This is before my time, so I defer to the Skips on the board. :)

IMO, he fits the definition of a Franchise QB. He just never had anything around him. :shrug:

[DeezNutz]

IMO, he fits the definition of a Franchise QB. He just never had anything around him. :shrug:

Then let's add him to the list. Others?

[Adept Havelock]

Then let's add him to the list. Others?

Carson Palmer. :p

[the Talking Can]

Do you lie awake at nights dreaming of 8-8, or 9-7?

Do you judge a season as a success by a Wild Card birth?

Do you believe that defenses and running games are more important than franchise QBs?

Do you hate wide receivers?

Do you love coaches with a complete inability to spot talent at the running back position?

Do you think that 3-13 is better for the long term future of the franchise than 2-14?

Do you think the 2002 Bucs and 2000 Ravens are model NFL teams to aspire to?

Do you find playoff records to be irrelevant?

Do you believe that guards and right tackles should be taken with top five picks?

Do you believe that a quarterback is best served as a game manager?

Do you believe that every 3rd Down play should either be a screen or a draw?

Do you believe kicker is the most important position on the offense?

Do you believe that all of the best prospects reside in the Big XII?

Do you believe in trading down in any situation during the draft?

Do you believe that a team is better served picking 20 rather than 5 because they don't have to pay the player as much?


If so, you may suffer from TFS, True Fan Syndrome. Here at the ChiefsPlanet Clinic, our staff of experts can help rid you of this debilitating malady. Through study of game tape of such contests as Super Bowl XXIII we can help ameliorate the effects of play not to lose football.

Upon registering at our world-renowned clinic, you will be given the following ID badge:

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u159/robrabies/tfs.gif

After six weeks of therapy, our cure rate for TFS approaches 91%, which ironically, is slightly better than Herm Edwards' losing percentage the last 23 games.

If you or a loved one suffers from TFS, please, contact us immediately.

We're here to help.

Sincerely,

The ChiefsPlanet Clinic

total awesomeness

:clap:

Do you judge QBOTF by their box scores?

Do you think that risk is scary, and therefore, wish to draft last in every round to avoid the perception of failure?

Do you think that Marty and Bill Cowher are the only two coaches left on the planet?

Do you think that Gunther was once a great coordinator?

Do you think that reaction is safer than action?

Do you think every other team that actually drafted a QBOTF just 'got lucky' and that it could never happen to us?

Is your name [alias of claythan and hootie]?

Do you prefer tailgating to Championships?

Do you fear the unknown?

Do you believe that 'being close in the 4th quarter' is the objective of an offense?

Do you believe that the run sets up the pass?

Do you believe that Stafford "has done nothing worth mentioning" in college?

Do you think QBs don't need to know how to play from under the center, and that learning 5 and 7 step drops is irrelevant because once Thigpen completed a 7 yard pass to a hall of fame tight end in quadruple coverage?

Do you think Dane is cool?

Well, then you, my retarded friend, you are a True Fan.

[ChiefsCountry]

I agree with this completely.

A good question would be, can you (the Planet at large) name a franchise QB who never reached the SB? Don't have to win it. Just get there.

Warren Moon
Carson Palmer

[DeezNutz]

Carson Palmer. :p

Well, fuck me. I write in allegory. Don't be a literal reader.

[Reerun_KC]

total awesomeness

:clap:

Do you judge QBOTF by their box scores?

Do you think that risk is scary, and therefore, wish to draft last in every round to avoid the perception of failure?

Do you think that Marty and Bill Cowher are the only two coaches left on the planet?

Do you think that Gunther was once a great coordinator?

Do you think that reaction is safer than action?

Do you think every other team that actually drafted a QBOTF just 'got lucky' and that it could never happen to us?

Is your name [alias of claythan and hootie]?

Do you prefer tailgating to Championships?

Do you fear the unknown?

Do you believe that 'being close in the 4th quarter' is the objective of an offense?

Do you believe that the run sets up the pass?

Do you believe that Stafford "has done nothing worth mentioning" in college?

Do you think QBs don't need to know how to play from under the center, and that learning 5 and 7 step drops is irrelevant because once Thigpen completed a 7 yard pass to a hall of fame tight end in quadruple coverage?

Do you think Dane is cool?

Well, then you, my retarded friend, you are a True Fan.

Holy crap TTC!

That was perfect!

[DeezNutz]

Warren Moon
Carson Palmer

Let's give Palmer and all current players a bit more time, please. It's not over for Palmer, yet.

Moon is a good example.

[ChiefsCountry]

Let's give Palmer and all current players a bit more time, please. It's not over for Palmer, yet.

Moon is a good example.

Moon is the only Super Bowl era quarterback to be in the Hall that never made the big game.

[the Talking Can]

this thread scores 1000

[DeezNutz]

Moon is the only Super Bowl era quarterback to be in the Hall that never made the big game.

Ok. Then this list comes to a close.

One. Only one franchise-level QB has never made the big dance. This is a good bar. I would say that all franchise-level QB's are likely HOF worthy.

[ChiefsCountry]

Ok. Then this list comes to a close.

One. Only one franchise-level QB has never made the big dance. This is a good bar. I would say that all franchise-level QB's are likely HOF worthy.

Actually forgot Dan Fouts. Make that two.

[DeezNutz]

Actually forgot Dan Fouts. Make that two.

Neg. rep. your way. :D

Two. Fucking two. If this doesn't highlight the importance of trying to find a QB of this caliber, I don't know what does.

[FringeNC]

Do you believe that 'being close in the 4th quarter' is the objective of an offense?

When Herm makes that comment -- followed by "and that's all you can hope for, really" -- I just want to scream. How can anyone agree with that nonsense?

[ChiefsCountry]

Here is the Hall of Fame Quarterback List

Winners
Bart Starr (2)
Joe Namath
Len Dawson
Johnny Unitas
Roger Stabuach (2)
Bob Griese (2)
Terry Bradshaw (4)
Joe Montana (4)
Troy Aikman (3)
Steve Young
John Elway (2)

Losers in the Super Bowl
Sonny Jurgensen
Fran Tarkenton
Dan Marino
Jim Kelly

Didn’t Make It
Dan Fouts
Warren Moon

Pre-Super Bowl Era
*George Blanda (kicker in the Super Bowl)
Otto Graham
Bobby Layne
YA Tittle
Norm Van Brocklin
Bob Waterfield

[OnTheWarpath15]

I agree with this completely.

A good question would be, can you (the Planet at large) name a franchise QB who never reached the SB? Don't have to win it. Just get there.

How are you guys evaluating who's a franchise QB, and who's not?

Based on the simple fact they were drafted as high as they were, you'd have to say any QB drafted in the top 5-10 would be a franchise QB, correct?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Hamas-

You need to add this in some form:


Do you believe that the only way to be a winning team is to throw money at the most expensive Free Agents every year, regardless of need?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Do you thank spending decades wading through franchise QB contracts spent on, JaMarcus Russell, Vince Young, Matt Leinart, Cutler, Alex Smith, Carson Palmer, Byron Leftwich, David Carr, Joey Harrington, Michael Vick, Chad Pennington, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Daunte Culpepper and Ryan Leaf is worth the chance to get the Manning brothers.

There are teams that found themselves on premier WRs and QBs, it's the Lions, Cardinals, and the Vikes of the 90s.

Oh look, it's Marty's #1 fan, the man who said Bob Sanders was more valuable to the Colts than Peyton Manning.

By all means, let's take his draft-by-fear based approach and hope that we hit on a 9th round QB from Western Mennonite Tech.

You also left out Terry Bradshaw, Troy Aikman, John Elway, forgot that Cutler and Palmer are actually good, Ben Roethlisberger, Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, among others.

Oh, and by the way, Captain TF, those great Marty teams, both pre and post-Chief who was he continually losing to in the playoffs?

Elway X3
Kelly X2
Marino X2

Clearly, we're much better off just getting a role player and spending a top 10 pick on a right tackle or strong safety, eh?

[Reerun_KC]

Do you believe that 'being close in the 4th quarter' is the objective of an offense?

When Herm makes that comment -- followed by "and that's all you can hope for, really" -- I just want to scream. How can anyone agree with that nonsense?

But the supporters will argue that the team is void of talent, then boast about the talent that we have....

98% of the supporters arguments contradict themselves...

Its sad but its fact...

['Hamas' Jenkins]

They don't get any "true fanner" than this shit:

Jags are what I've long aspired for the Chiefs to be, only I'd want a D as good as the '00 Ravens to boot.
Funny they have all the hallmarks of what Marty tried to instill, right down to a mini-RBBC that is far from a laughingstock, solid low-profile QB who doesn't make mistakes, disciplined line play, etc.

[The Bad Guy]

Do you believe that 'being close in the 4th quarter' is the objective of an offense?

When Herm makes that comment -- followed by "and that's all you can hope for, really" -- I just want to scream. How can anyone agree with that nonsense?

A fucking men.

You know what I want a coach to say? The objective is to blow them the hell out for 3 quarters so we can get the bench guys in for mop up duty.

It's a fucking loser attitude. It's like being the last one cut from the baseball team. Well at least you were "close" to making it.

You dumb Herm asslickers want a leader that just wants to be "close" in the fourth quarter. When teams are close to Herm Edwards in the 4th quarter, Herm goes into a shell. He can keep pointing to those single-digit losses. All that tells me is that he can't close the deal.

[Mecca]

They don't get any "true fanner" than this shit:

The Jags committed to their game manager QB and now they blow...that philosophy of building a team isn't even consistent anymore.

[DeezNutz]

How are you guys evaluating who's a franchise QB, and who's not?

Based on the simple fact they were drafted as high as they were, you'd have to say any QB drafted in the top 5-10 would be a franchise QB, correct?

That's a tough question to give a straight, simple answer to. The best way I can put it is: indisputable, superior talent.

Warren Moon is a great example. No one with half a brain would question that he was a great, great player. Contrast him with Green. Here's a player who went to a Pro-Bowl, had some very nice seasons, but was very much a system guy. I'm not knocking system guys; you can win with them, but I'm looking for a higher tier.

In short, this is subjective. Good banter for bars or message boards.

[DeezNutz]

A ****ing men.

You know what I want a coach to say? The objective is to blow them the hell out for 3 quarters so we can get the bench guys in for mop up duty.

It's a ****ing loser attitude. It's like being the last one cut from the baseball team. Well at least you were "close" to making it.

You dumb Herm asslickers want a leader that just wants to be "close" in the fourth quarter. When teams are close to Herm Edwards in the 4th quarter, Herm goes into a shell. He can keep pointing to those single-digit losses. All that tells me is that he can't close the deal.

"Well, I was close to landing the pussy..."

"So, you're saying you're still a virgin?"

"Yeah, but all you can really ask for is to be close..."

"Um...unless you want your dick wet..."

[OnTheWarpath15]

That's a tough question to give a straight, simple answer to. The best way I can put it is: indisputable, superior talent.

Warren Moon is a great example. No one with half a brain would question that he was a great, great player. Contrast him with Green. Here's a player who went to a Pro-Bowl, had some very nice seasons, but was very much a system guy. I'm not knocking system guys; you can win with them, but I'm looking for a higher tier.

In short, this is subjective. Good banter for bars or message boards.

So you're evaluating "franchise" QB's AFTER they've played, not before.

If so, that's gonna skew the data a bit, don't you think?

If we knew who was going to be a franchise QB BEFORE they ever played a down, I doubt you'd be getting much argument from people...

[Mecca]

The team has always been run very conservative, I think that's where alot of this come from. No 1st round QB's, resign your own players that had produced before even if it wasn't a good idea, you breed something for so long people just get use to it and then it's the norm.

It was to the point that saying LJ should be moved before he re-signed caused basically everyone but a few people to say we should keep him.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

So you're evaluating "franchise" QB's AFTER they've played, not before.

If so, that's gonna skew the data a bit, don't you think?

If we knew who was going to be a franchise QB BEFORE they ever played a down, I doubt you'd be getting much argument from people...

A franchise QB is a guy who can lead 4th quarter comebacks in the most dire of situations, when everyone on the D knows he is going to pass, when the D pins its ears back, when the defense is playing uber tight coverage, and he wills them down the field.

Brady did it twice in the Super Bowl. Montana did it. Eli Manning did it. Elway did it. Hell, Jim Kelly did it in a Super Bowl.

It doesn't just have to be a Super Bowl, either. Manning has done it in the playoffs more than once, Steve Young did it against the Packers.

I've never seen a running game lead a 4th quarter comeback in a 2 minute drill.

[DeezNutz]

So you're evaluating "franchise" QB's AFTER they've played, not before.

If so, that's gonna skew the data a bit, don't you think?

If we knew who was going to be a franchise QB BEFORE they ever played a down, I doubt you'd be getting much argument from people...

Naw, not an evaluation, just an exercise to underscore the importance of the trying to acquire one. A response, if you will, to the True Fan's mandate.

I was thinking about the fans who are afraid of taking a risk to find one, when darn near every single one has led his team to the SB.

Even the current crop tends to suggest this. Roethlisberger, Manning. I wouldn't bet against Cutler. If season one is any indication, I'd put a ton of money on Ryan...

[DaneMcCloud]

He went to three with Dan Reeves as his HC when the AFC was a joke, and got blown out three times. He went with Shanahan, running a sophisticated offense, and won twice. Look at Elway's numbers pre- and post- Reeves. He's a completely different QB. Is Elway better than Warner -- yeah, but coaching and scheme MATTER, and the combination of Warner and Martz would blow away Elway and Reeves. Not even close.

You're smoking crack.

And that "combination" was beat in the Super Bowl by Tom Brady.

FAIL.

[OnTheWarpath15]

A franchise QB is a guy who can lead 4th quarter comebacks in the most dire of situations, when everyone on the D knows he is going to pass, when the D pins its ears back, when the defense is playing uber tight coverage, and he wills them down the field.

Brady did it twice in the Super Bowl. Montana did it. Eli Manning did it. Elway did it. Hell, Jim Kelly did it in a Super Bowl.

It doesn't just have to be a Super Bowl, either. Manning has done it in the playoffs more than once, Steve Young did it against the Packers.

I've never seen a running game lead a 4th quarter comeback in a 2 minute drill.

You're missing the point. And for the record, I'm on your side on this.

The talk is about drafting a QB, and the question was name a franchise QB that didn't make the SB.

Then these guys go on to list QB's that were determined to be franchise guys AFTER they had played, not before.

You don't have that luxury on draft day of knowing who's going to be a franchise guy - you just hope like hell he is because you've just made a huge investment in him.

It's kinda cheating to say that only Fouts and A. Manning were the only two "franchise" QB's to not make the SB.

I'm pretty sure guys like Carr, Ware, Leaf, etc were considered franchise QB's when they were picked...

[the Talking Can]

The team has always been run very conservative, I think that's where alot of this come from. No 1st round QB's, resign your own players that had produced before even if it wasn't a good idea, you breed something for so long people just get use to it and then it's the norm.

It was to the point that saying LJ should be moved before he re-signed caused basically everyone but a few people to say we should keep him.

after 15 years of abject failure, people still think that the only problem was 'execution'....they believe the philosophy behind our actions was sound...

this is what you can't make true fans see: it wasn't a matter of execution, our plan was flawed from its inception...the assumptions about how to build a team WERE WRONG AND THEY HAVE TO CHANGE

you either get it or you don't....and most kc fans don't get it, and never will

['Hamas' Jenkins]

You're missing the point. And for the record, I'm on your side on this.

The talk is about drafting a QB, and the question was name a franchise QB that didn't make the SB.

Then these guys go on to list QB's that were determined to be franchise guys AFTER they had played, not before.

You don't have that luxury on draft day of knowing who's going to be a franchise guy - you just hope like hell he is because you've just made a huge investment in him.

It's kinda cheating to say that only Fouts and A. Manning were the only two "franchise" QB's to not make the SB.

I'm pretty sure guys like Carr, Ware, Leaf, etc were considered franchise QB's when they were picked...

I get the point, but every player is drafted early to be a "Dominant blind side rusher", a "franchise left tackle", a "shut down corner" an "every down back" or a "#1 receiver".

Every position carries a label with it in the draft.

Basically, the True Fan has eschewed the idea of a franchise QB, the most important position, because they are afraid of the risk of one not working out, as though there aren't Robert Gallerys, Tony Mandariches, Blair Thomases, Charles Rogerses, Ryan Simses, Aundray Bruces, DeAngelo Halls,Michael Huffs and David LaFluers at every position.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I was thinking about the fans who are afraid of taking a risk to find one, when darn near every single one has led his team to the SB.

That's my point.

You can't cheat and only use guys that were considered franchise guys after the fact.

I'm pretty sure Houston considered David Carr a franchise QB, or they wouldn't have picked him 1st overall.

You're also using guys that were picked in later rounds, and this place is notorious for saying you can't get a franchise QB outside the Top 15.

Again, I agree with you guys, but I think you're going about it the wrong way.

[Mecca]

after 15 years of abject failure, people still think that the only problem was 'execution'....they believe the philosophy behind our actions was sound...

this is what you can't make true fans see: it wasn't a matter of execution, our plan was flawed from its inception...the assumptions about how to build a team WERE WRONG AND THEY HAVE TO CHANGE

you either get it or you don't....and most kc fans don't get it, and never will

It didn't help that some of the best players we had played devalued positions so then those positions got overvalued. I don't care how good Gonzalez is you don't build your team around or make your highest paid player your tight end.

TE's, RG's, RB's all devalued positions not to mention the retard fullback obsession.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I get the point, but every player is drafted early to be a "Dominant blind side rusher", a "franchise left tackle", a "shut down corner" an "every down back" or a "#1 receiver".

Every position carries a label with it in the draft.

Basically, the True Fan has eschewed the idea of a franchise QB, the most important position, because they are afraid of the risk of one not working out, as though there aren't Robert Gallerys, Tony Mandariches, Blair Thomases, Charles Rogerses, Ryan Simses, Aundray Bruces, DeAngelo Halls,Michael Huffs and David LaFluers at every position.

I'm with you 100%.

My point is that it's disingenuous to say that damn near every franchise QB has made the SB, when it's not even remotely close to being true.

[the Talking Can]

It didn't help that some of the best players we had played devalued positions so then those positions got overvalued. I don't care how good Gonzalez is you don't build your team around or make your highest paid player your tight end.

TE's, RG's, RB's all devalued positions not to mention the retard fullback obsession.

i love tony to death, but i agree...

[OnTheWarpath15]

It didn't help that some of the best players we had played devalued positions so then those positions got overvalued. I don't care how good Gonzalez is you don't build your team around or make your highest paid player your tight end.

TE's, RG's, RB's all devalued positions not to mention the retard fullback obsession.

Agree 100%

[DeezNutz]

You're missing the point. And for the record, I'm on your side on this.

The talk is about drafting a QB, and the question was name a franchise QB that didn't make the SB.

Then these guys go on to list QB's that were determined to be franchise guys AFTER they had played, not before.

You don't have that luxury on draft day of knowing who's going to be a franchise guy - you just hope like hell he is because you've just made a huge investment in him.

It's kinda cheating to say that only Fouts and A. Manning were the only two "franchise" QB's to not make the SB.

I'm pretty sure guys like Carr, Ware, Leaf, etc were considered franchise QB's when they were picked...

Ok. I got you.

You're right that there have been all sorts of frauds, and there are going to be probably at least 2-3 imposters in the upcoming draft class. We'll have to sit through the bullshit spewed by Kiper, Jaws, and the rest, and many of these "franchise" guys will fail.

My only point is that the risk if worth it, and it's one that this franchise must take. For grins, let's say we are fortunate enough to draft a Stafford, and then let's say he sucks the penis for three straight years (or enough time for it to be clear that he's definitely not the guy, whatever amount that is). No development. No indication that he'll improve. I'm going to be the first to say, let's draft another QB. Let's keep firing.

True fan, b/c his mother clearly swallowed the fraction of the sperm containing his nut sack, is far too scared to try once, let alone to try, fail, and want to try again.

[DeezNutz]

I'm with you 100%.

My point is that it's disingenuous to say that damn near every franchise QB has made the SB, when it's not even remotely close to being true.

Then those guys weren't franchise QBs. :p

It's semantics at this point. We're in agreement, I believe. Point is, take the fucking risk and be willing to deal with the consequences.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Ok. I got you.

You're right that there have been all sorts of frauds, and there are going to be probably at least 2-3 imposters in the upcoming draft class. We'll have to sit through the bullshit spewed by Kiper, Jaws, and the rest, and many of these "franchise" guys will fail.

My only point is that the risk if worth it, and it's one that this franchise must take. For grins, let's say we are fortunate to draft a Stafford, and then let's say he sucks the penis for three straight years. No development. No indication that he'll improve. I'm going to be the first to say, let's draft another QB. Let's keep firing.

True fan, b/c his mother clearly swallowed the fraction of the sperm containing his nut sack, is far too scared to try once, let alone to try, fail, and want to try again.

Agree 100%.

The question for some people is: Is Stafford worth that risk?

To some he is - to others, he isn't.

Where things get lost in translation is when the Stafford-ites try to claim you're not willing to take the risk just because you don't like their guy.

[DeezNutz]

Agree 100%.

The question for some people is: Is Stafford worth that risk?

To some he is - to others, he isn't.

Where things get lost in translation is when the Stafford-ites try to claim you're not willing to take the risk just because you don't like their guy.

And there's the problem. And this is probably something that has happened with every single great QB in NFL history.

In Indy, there were probably a group of loud mouths screaming for Ryan Leaf. Probably about 50 percent of the fan base. It's the same thing here. About 75 percent of the board wants to slob Stafford, while the others dream of coddling Bradford's sack.

[philfree]

Agree 100%.

The question for some people is: Is Stafford worth that risk?

To some he is - to others, he isn't.

Where things get lost in translation is when the Stafford-ites try to claim you're not willing to take the risk just because you don't like their guy.

Yes and with a few fans around here if you don't like their guy or plan then you get labled a "True Fan".

PhilFree:arrow:

[milkman]

That's my point.

You can't cheat and only use guys that were considered franchise guys after the fact.

I'm pretty sure Houston considered David Carr a franchise QB, or they wouldn't have picked him 1st overall.

You're also using guys that were picked in later rounds, and this place is notorious for saying you can't get a franchise QB outside the Top 15.

Again, I agree with you guys, but I think you're going about it the wrong way.

Let's try to define "Franchise QB" in the draft.

He's guy with talent.
Reasonbly strong arm, reasonable accuracy, has shown an ability to make plays when there aren't any to be made, has a good head on his shoulders and a leader.

What you are actually trying to define is potential.

No one can look at a QB and say he's a franchise QB.

We can only say that he has the potential.

[milkman]

Agree 100%.

The question for some people is: Is Stafford worth that risk?

To some he is - to others, he isn't.

Where things get lost in translation is when the Stafford-ites try to claim you're not willing to take the risk just because you don't like their guy.

Gotta say, it's really hard to take people who don't like "my" guy seriously when they come in here and tell us that Chase Daniel is a better prospect.

They are either unwilling to admit they are afraid to take the risk, or simply the dumbest motherfuckers on the planet.

[RedThat]

It would appear as though you have Stage II TFS. There is a 72% cure rate. You will be forced to watch tape of the 1994 49ers for three weeks as videotherapy.

I suggest that you get your things in order, for if you continue to say things like Dorsey is a bust, your TFS may be present in the frontal lobe, which would indicate euthanasia as the only course.

Your TFS Primary Care Counselor will be OnTheWarpath58.

ROFL you're such a dork but i'll give you some man love:grouphug:

just no medication ok? The videotherapy is fine i can handle that.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Gotta say, it's really hard to take people who don't like "my" guy seriously when they come in here and tell us that Chase Daniel is a better prospect.

They are either unwilling to admit they are afraid to take the risk, or simply the dumbest motherfuckers on the planet.

See, that's where I call BS.

There are two posters, who will remain nameless, (they know who they are, and honestly, so does everyone else) who attack anyone who doesn't like Stafford. Period.

I've said countless times that I'm not sold 100% on Stafford, but if Sanchez was to declare, I'd be all for it.

I was labeled a true fan, chickenshit, afraid to take risks.

It's bullshit, and you know it.

You know as well as I do this isn't exclusive to the guys who pimp Daniel...

[ChiefsCountry]

I got some pretty good data coming up on top 5 quarterbacks.

[milkman]

See, that's where I call BS.

There are two posters, who will remain nameless, (they know who they are, and honestly, so does everyone else) who attack anyone who doesn't like Stafford. Period.

I've said countless times that I'm not sold 100% on Stafford, but if Sanchez was to declare, I'd be all for it.

I was labeled a true fan, chickenshit, afraid to take risks.

It's bullshit, and you know it.

You know as well as I do this isn't exclusive to the guys who pimp Daniel...

Oh, I know that there are some pretty good posters that don't agree with me, and I have been open minded in my debates in the Stafford v. Bradford debates..

But I do call out some idiots, like the one that actually started the thread that he stated Daniel is a better propspect and I just wanted to set the record straight.

[DeezNutz]

I'll say one thing about Stafford. He might be the ugliest mother****er in the draft. And this is the guy who is going to be "the face of the franchise"? He's going to cock block Chiefs fans all over the country, as well as reaffirm the Camaro persona.

[ChiefsCountry]

I'll say one thing about Stafford. He might be the ugliest mother****er in the draft. And this is the guy who is going to be "the face of the franchise"? He's going to cock block Chiefs fans all over the country, as well as reaffirm the Camaro persona.

Elway wasnt a looker either.

[DeezNutz]

Elway wasnt a looker either.

No. Now there's a good debate.

[bowener]

I haven't been feeling good lately.

I fear I may have contracted something from my close contact to many of the planeteers.

[Crush]

I haven't been feeling good lately.

I fear I may have contracted something from my close contact to many of the planeteers.


What are your symptoms?

[RedThat]

I haven't been feeling good lately.

I fear I may have contracted something from my close contact to many of the planeteers.

Oh yeah?

I didnt know TFS syndrome was contagious?

[Agent V]

I haven't been feeling good lately.

I fear I may have contracted something from my close contact to many of the planeteers.

As long as you don't have a sudden urge to cradle Gunther or Marty's testicles, I'd say we have a good chance of obliterating it with some 90's playoff highlight film therapy. It's painful, but worth it.

[Tribal Warfare]

Elway wasnt a looker either.

or Bradshaw

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Agree 100%.

The question for some people is: Is Stafford worth that risk?

To some he is - to others, he isn't.

Where things get lost in translation is when the Stafford-ites try to claim you're not willing to take the risk just because you don't like their guy.

I don't know if it's lost in translation. I think it's pretty clear from the post of someone like Baby Lee that he's too afraid of the Ryan Leafs to potentially grab a John Elway, as he finds the '07 Jags to be a model franchise, despite the fact that they were promptly piss pounded out of the playoffs by a team that had a....franchise QB, and blew an 18 point lead to another team that had one.

Quarterback carries the most risk because it's the most valuable. Risk aversion only prohibits you from potentially securing the most valuable position on the team, and that is a losing proposition.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I'm with you 100%.

My point is that it's disingenuous to say that damn near every franchise QB has made the SB, when it's not even remotely close to being true.

But a much higher % of teams have won SBs, and have been competitive year in, year out, with a franchise QB.

[philfree]

Let's try to define "Franchise QB" in the draft.

He's guy with talent.
Reasonbly strong arm, reasonable accuracy, has shown an ability to make plays when there aren't any to be made, has a good head on his shoulders and a leader.

What you are actually trying to define is potential.

No one can look at a QB and say he's a franchise QB.

We can only say that he has the potential.

What makes a Franchise QB for that matter?

PhilFree:arrow:

[RustShack]

Give him the power!

[Saulbadguy]

We could not have success because we had Trent Green as our QB. Repeat that to yourself 5 times and tell yourself you are right.

[Tiger's Fan]

I'm not really into these childish games, but I'll play in this instance. What will the fanboys do if Stafford isn't there in the first? Shit yourselves? Want to take Bradford, or a POS like Sanchez? Will the draft be a failure if we don't take a QB in the first? I'm all for taking a first round QB, just not for the sake of taking one only because it's the first round. If ever there was a bust proof QB on the board, I just don't see that in a very inconsistent Stafford.

[WilliamTheIrish]

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u159/robrabies/tfs.gif



Bar none, that is the greatest emoticon in the history of the internet. LMAO

[WilliamTheIrish]

Do you enjoy watching your team lose?

If the answer is yes than you might be a retard.

Like a moth to a flame....four posts in. Instead of True fan Syndrome, I'd diagnose you as Down's Fan Syndrome.

[Baby Lee]

I don't know if it's lost in translation. I think it's pretty clear from the post of someone like Baby Lee that he's too afraid of the Ryan Leafs to potentially grab a John Elway, as he finds the '07 Jags to be a model franchise, despite the fact that they were promptly piss pounded out of the playoffs by a team that had a....franchise QB, and blew an 18 point lead to another team that had one.

Quarterback carries the most risk because it's the most valuable. Risk aversion only prohibits you from potentially securing the most valuable position on the team, and that is a losing proposition.

It's not the straight up 'if the QB's there, do you take him' question, it's this let everything fall apart, don't worry about the rest of the team, tear everything to shreds and lose out because a top QB will fix everything.
First off, an elite QB is a gamble, but that's not the point. It's a point, but not THE point.
Even when the gamble pays off, an elite QB still needs a good team around him. As many franchise QBs went bust because the rest of the team sucked [see, Carr] as the ones who did because the QB was a plain bust.
Even the best of them [Elway, Manning] toiled in desperation until all the pieces were in place.
An elite QB can be the key to ultimate success, but none of them are worth shit until a complete team, with a running game, O-line, and Defense to free them up to work their magic.
You can say, get the QB, then build the team, but that runs the risk of the QB being irreparably broken before the team is even assembled [Carr, Leaf, Croyle, Palmer, George, etc.].

[DeezNutz]

You can say, get the QB, then build the team, but that runs the risk of the QB being irreparably broken before the team is even assembled [Carr, Leaf, Croyle, Palmer, George, etc.].

That's not a very strong list to make your case.

1. George was a headcase. The talent around him had nothing to do with his failings. When he wanted to put forth the effort, he was a VERY good QB.
2. I'd be happy to take Palmer from the Beagles. Right now. In fact, I'll throw in Herm as a "trade."
3. The rest of those guys were frauds. Sometimes there are busts.
4. You just didn't list fucking Croyle, did you? No, couldn't have been. That fucker's name should NEVER EVER come up in a discussion of franchise QB's.

No one is saying seek a QB and ignore the rest of the team. This would be as stupid as not trying everything to get the QB in the first place.

[Baby Lee]

That's not a very strong list to make your case.

1. George was a headcase. The talent around him had nothing to do with his failings. When he wanted to put forth the effort, he was a VERY good QB.
2. I'd be happy to take Palmer from the Beagles. Right now. In fact, I'll throw in Herm as a "trade."
3. The rest of those guys were frauds. Sometimes there are busts.
4. You just didn't list ****ing Croyle, did you? No, couldn't have been. That ****er's name should NEVER EVER come up in a discussion of franchise QB's.

No one is saying seek a QB and ignore the rest of the team. This would be as stupid as not trying everything to get the QB in the first place.

I'm not saying Croyle was or wasn't, or was or wasn't going to be, elite, he's a recent and close example of a guy who was broken before we found out shit.

And yes, there are a number of people who don't give a shit about the rest of the team, whether they win, whether they learn how to win, whether they stick around, whether they're all completely replaced, so long as we lose every game and get whomever is the top prospect at QB.

[DeezNutz]

I'm not saying Croyle was or wasn't, or was or wasn't going to be, elite, he's a recent and close example of a guy who was broken before we found out shit.

And yes, there are a number of people who don't give a shit about the rest of the team, whether they win, whether they learn how to win, whether they stick around, whether they're all completely replaced, so long as we lose every game and get whomever is the top prospect at QB.

Croyle was broken before he was ever drafted by the Chiefs, so we were never going to learn anything else. This wasn't the supporting cast's fault.

Those people want us to lose to have a crack at a top QB. You're talking about something completely different. If we draft a QB with the #2 overall pick, I can't imagine there will be a dumbass in all of Chiefs fandom NOT wanting to give this player every possible resource so that he can be successful.

[Baby Lee]

I should also add, that the continued existence of Dick Curl weighs heavily in my calculus at this point in time.

[Baby Lee]

Croyle was broken before he was ever drafted by the Chiefs, so we were never going to learn anything else. This wasn't the supporting cast's fault.

Those people want us to lose to have a crack at a top QB. You're talking about something completely different. If we draft a QB with the #2 overall pick, I can't imagine there will be a dumbass in all of Chiefs fandom NOT wanting to give this player every possible resource so that he can be successful.

Yeah, I'm not opposing the 'if he's there and he measures up, pull the trigger' crowd, I'm opposing the 'the elite QB is the only thing we need to focus on' crowd.

[the Talking Can]

I'm not really into these childish games, but I'll play in this instance. What will the fanboys do if Stafford isn't there in the first? Shit yourselves? Want to take Bradford, or a POS like Sanchez? Will the draft be a failure if we don't take a QB in the first? I'm all for taking a first round QB, just not for the sake of taking one only because it's the first round. If ever there was a bust proof QB on the board, I just don't see that in a very inconsistent Stafford.

"bust-proof QB"

that is a true fan coinage

how on earth can someone have actually watched Stafford play and call him "very inconsistent?"

if he is "very inconsistent" than no QB is good enough...that is almost as good as the poster who claimed Stafford "hadn't done a single impressive thing"....man....

[Brock]

"POS like Sanchez"? WTF?

[chiefsngop]

After reading through the thread starter's post, I believe have met the number one sufferer of TFS...................Herman Edwards.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

That.

Do you enjoy watching your team lose?

If the answer is yes than you might be a retard.

Do you think Josh Freeman is an NFL quarterback in waiting?....



No the 100th power, and NO again after that.

Do you find self-appointed "Professors" of Chiefs Football who make symptom lists with at least half of the items on said list being perfectly reasonable for a football team, to be a combination of annoying douchebag, know-it all who clearly DOESN'T know it all, and a prime candidate for State Sterilization?
:Poke:

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn182/lightbringerrr/say-yes.jpg

[shaneo69]

Do you suffer from MSMLS (Matthew Stafford Man-Love Syndrome)?

If so, I can't help.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I'm not saying Croyle was or wasn't, or was or wasn't going to be, elite, he's a recent and close example of a guy who was broken before we found out shit.

And yes, there are a number of people who don't give a shit about the rest of the team, whether they win, whether they learn how to win, whether they stick around, whether they're all completely replaced, so long as we lose every game and get whomever is the top prospect at QB.

I love the fact that you have to invent an argument for it to gain any traction. No one who is the proponent of a franchise QB has said that you don't need anything else. Rather, they've said that it is the most important part of a team that is a consistent winner.

Why is it that the Bucs and Ravens defenses, even at their peak, were basically on one year, off the next, and yet teams like the Colts and Pats, have been SB contenders every year?

People forget that the 86 Bears D was even better than the 85 Bears D, but they got much worse performance out of their O, and thus were bounced rather than being a dominant team.

Everyone I've seen on this board who advocates the importance of a franchise QB has also stated that Left Tackle, RDE, MLB, WR, and DT are all positions of paramount importance, so for you to claim that they haven't is just a flat out fucking lie.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Yeah, I'm not opposing the 'if he's there and he measures up, pull the trigger' crowd, I'm opposing the 'the elite QB is the only thing we need to focus on' crowd.

#1 rule of the draft: If you don't have a franchise QB and one is there in the draft, you take him every time.

How, in any way does that equate to "Draft nothing but franchise QBs or pay attention to nothing else"?

[CoMoChief]

Do you suffer from MSMLS (Matthew Stafford Man-Love Syndrome)?

If so, I can't help.

sadly many people on this board do.

[ChiefsCountry]

sadly many people on this board do.

So who is a better QB this year? You keep saying its not Stafford so who is.

[Chiefnj2]

Is Stafford the only QBOTF in this years draft?

[Extra Point]

#1 rule of the draft: If you don't have a franchise QB and one is there in the draft, you take him every time.

How, in any way does that equate to "Draft nothing but franchise QBs or pay attention to nothing else"?
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[bowener]

As long as you don't have a sudden urge to cradle Gunther or Marty's testicles, I'd say we have a good chance of obliterating it with some 90's playoff highlight film therapy. It's painful, but worth it.

I don't know what this itches I have... here, look at it for me, it's just below my sig line...

What do you see, anything strange?

I don't know what the deal is, but I get these feelings. I guess you would say it isn't bad, but it definitely isn't good, it's just kind of, well, ok I guess.

And can someone tell me why, when I eat a bratwurst, my hand instinctively raises up below the bun in a cupping-like fashion?

[bowener]

After reading through the thread starter's post, I believe have met the number one sufferer of TFS...................Herman Edwards.

Can one be both a sufferer and a host cause?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

"POS like Sanchez"? WTF?

Who the fuck said that?!:#

[Mecca]

Who the fuck said that?!:#

That Buster Hymen dude....

This thread turned funny we got 1 guy calling Sanchez a POS and another guy lumping Carson Palmer in with busts and Brodie Croyle, what in the blue hell is going on here?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Who in the merry, happy hell on THIS board( myself included )is qualified to call; "Sure Thing"?!?

If you want to look at a QB and say, "I like the system he works in, his( insert plethora of QB traits here )works for me, and I think he'd be a great fit for the Chiefs", that's fine.

But pimp your QB all day and night if it makes you happy, the bottom line is; YOU DON'T KNOW.

The odds based on data may be greater for one guy than another, but make no mistake; YOU...ARE...GAMBLING.

These are obvious and practical points, but sometimes the basics need to be heard and remembered now and then.

That said, if Stafford is available; you take him. You take him because he has the skill-set necessary to adapt to anything Gailey want's to throw at him.
But if he's not, you let it the fuck go, because unless Mark Sanchez declares; there's no one else in this Class worth consideration.
If the Chiefs draft another Spread-Monkey, the person making that call deserves to have a football crammed so far up his ass that he'll never walk upright again.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

That Buster Hymen dude....

This thread turned funny we got 1 guy calling Sanchez a POS and another guy lumping Carson Palmer in with busts and Brodie Croyle, what in the blue hell is going on here?

Yeah, well fuck 'Buster Hymen' because he/she/it doesn't do their homework and it shows.

Hey "Hymen"; Fuck YOU!:cuss:

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Do you suffer from MSMLS (Matthew Stafford Man-Love Syndrome)?

If so, I can't help.

I think most of this board suffers from a case of "We don't want the top rated QB, or any QB in the first round, for that matter."

I wish I was around when Palmer and Manning were drafted so that I could have seen all the people bash those selections about what epic busts they were going to be and how much those franchises overvalued their QBs.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Yeah, well fuck 'Buster Hymen' because he/she/it doesn't do their homework and it shows.

Hey "Hymen"; Fuck YOU!:cuss:

DCS is silly and he's ignorant, but he's got guts and guts is enough.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

DCS is silly and he's opinionated, but he's got guts and guts is enough.

FYP.

Remember; though you may know a lot, you don't know everything. No one here( myself included )does.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

FYP.

Remember; though you may know a lot, you don't know everything. No one here( myself included )does.

It's a move quote, son. If you knew everything, you'd know that.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

It's a move quote, son. If you knew everything, you'd know that.

What movie?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

What movie?

Full Metal Jacket.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Full Metal Jacket.

No wonder; it's been yeeeeeears since I've seen that.

[Baby Lee]

I love the fact that you have to invent an argument for it to gain any traction.
Figured you would after you assembled that army of strawmen in the topic header.

[Mecca]

I have a better question, why are you lumping Carson Palmer with busts and Brodie Croyle?

[Baby Lee]

I have a better question, why are you lumping Carson Palmer with busts and Brodie Croyle?

Because there's no difference between just short of the SB and 0-16.
All that is short of SB victory is fungible failure.

[the Talking Can]

I think most of this board suffers from a case of "We don't want the top rated QB, or any QB in the first round, for that matter."

I wish I was around when Palmer and Manning were drafted so that I could have seen all the people bash those selections about what epic busts they were going to be and how much those franchises overvalued their QBs.

palmer left college with a less than 60% completion percentage, and a 1.5/1 td/int ratio for his career...

and his QB rating his junior year is worse than Staffords....


the same true fan idiots would have torn him apart and claimed that he "regularly" made mistakes and we can't draft him....

[OnTheWarpath15]

palmer left college with a less than 60% completion percentage, and a 1.5/1 td/int ratio for his career...

and his QB rating his junior year is worse than Staffords....


the same true fan idiots would have torn him apart and claimed that he "regularly" made mistakes and we can't draft him....

What happened to "watch the games, and don't rely on the box score?"

DID YOU EVEN SEE PALMER PLAY!!??!111one!!!

You're a goddamn walking contradiction.

[the Talking Can]

What happened to "watch the games, and don't rely on the box score?"

DID YOU EVEN SEE PALMER PLAY!!??!111one!!!

You're a goddamn walking contradiction.

yeah, i watched him play

it was obvious he was a pro QB, just like it is with Stafford

but according to the standard set by you true fans, and articulated on this board, Palmer wasn't good enough....

[ChiefsCountry]

yeah, i watched him play

it was obvious he was a pro QB, just like it is with Stafford

but according to the standard set by you true fans, and articulated on this board, Palmer wasn't good enough....

Just to correct something - OTW58 has been on record for saying he should draft Sanchez, that isnt true fanish. Feel free to carry on.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Just to correct something - OTW58 has been on record for saying he should draft Sanchez, that isnt true fanish. Feel free to carry on.

Nah, he's ignoring it.

Two different posts by two different people claiming exactly that, but no response.

Fucking coward.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Figured you would after you assembled that army of strawmen in the topic header.

Once again, completely unable to offer any semblance of a refutation.

[Baby Lee]

Once again, completely unable to offer any semblance of a refutation.

I'll put my 'distortion' of how much you are willing to ignore, shortchange or destroy in the quest for a franchise QB up against the litany of BS you attribute to true fans [praying for 8-8, living for a wild card game, ache for a stellar kicking game, etc.] all day long.

FFS, even you are aware of FOS you are, arguing that TFs want 'guards or right tackles' as top 5ers, when you know the longstanding argument is about the importance of a left tackle.

Nobody wants lower picks to save the owner money, no one thinks all the talent is in the Big XII, no one advocates building through FA even a lot, let alone mostly or exclusively. And on and on.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I'll put my 'distortion' of how much you are willing to ignore, shortchange or destroy in the quest for a franchise QB up against the litany of BS you attribute to true fans [praying for 8-8, living for a wild card game, ache for a stellar kicking game, etc.] all day long.

FFS, even you are aware of FOS you are, arguing that TFs want 'guards or right tackles' as top 5ers, when you know the longstanding argument is about the importance of a left tackle.

Nobody wants lower picks to save the owner money, no one thinks all the talent is in the Big XII, no one advocates building through FA even a lot, let alone mostly or exclusively. And on and on.

Apparently, you've never even read this board. There have been numerous posters, just this year, who have said that we can draft a RT with a top five pick.

There have also been posters who have argued that we should always trade out of the top five due to the cap, and you see posters every day saying

"Chiefs should sign Peppers, Suggs, and Dansby to fix the D".

We'll further augment that with the litany of people who've said that Chase Daniel should be picked in the second round by the Chiefs, that Graham Harrell and Colt McCoy will be great pro quarterbacks, that Phil Loadholt is a can't miss tackle, and yeah, we never hear that.

Obviously you were absent the day that satire was discussed, so we'll just continue with your Donger-esque reading of the OP, completely ignorant of the fact that although TIC and somewhat over the top, that within any satire are contained several grains of truth.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Apparently, you've never even read this board. There have been numerous posters, just this year, who have said that we can draft a RT with a top five pick.

There have also been posters who have argued that we should always trade out of the top five due to the cap, and you see posters every day saying

"Chiefs should sign Peppers, Suggs, and Dansby to fix the D".

We'll further augment that with the litany of people who've said that Chase Daniel should be picked in the second round by the Chiefs, that Graham Harrell and Colt McCoy will be great pro quarterbacks, that Phil Loadholt is a can't miss tackle, and yeah, we never hear that.

Obviously you were absent the day that satire was discussed, so we'll just continue with your Donger-esque reading of the OP, completely ignorant of the fact that although TIC and somewhat over the top, that within any satire are contained several grains of truth.



How did you forget Haynesworth?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

How did you forget Haynesworth?

Dammit.

Clearly, I"ve overreacting to the desire of some fans to sign any and every FA.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Dammit.

Clearly, I"ve overreacting to the desire of some fans to sign any and every FA.

LMAO

Honestly, I'm shocked I didn't see you post in that abortion of a thread.

I fully expected at least a DIAF.

[Baby Lee]

Obviously you were absent the day that satire was discussed, so we'll just continue with your Donger-esque reading of the OP, completely ignorant of the fact that although TIC and somewhat over the top, that within any satire are contained several grains of truth.
OIC, the perpetual pissed off motherf@cker was just joking around.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

OIC, the perpetual pissed off motherf@cker was just joking around.

LAWL...no, I'm not joking around, I'm satirizing the True Fan, because there is an element of truth in every one of those statements in the OP.

Again, spin, spin away. By the way, hell of a game by your desired QB last night. He managed the fuck out of that game. Meanwhile, the Colts' LVP tossed for 360 yards and 3 "Tubs".

I also love the fact that I'm the one who's perpetually pissed off. ROFL, as though you don't call UP or Mecca "cvnts" every time you get in a disagreement with them

LMAO

You have the sandiest vag of anyone on this board.

[HemiEd]

I loved that game last night, the only way the Colts were going to cover was a pick 6, and it happened!

[Rain Man]

Once again, completely unable to offer any semblance of a refutation.

Well, other than facts.

I love you like a brother, Hamas. Like Corky's big sister on that "Life Goes On" show loved Corky. I want you to learn and thrive and become a productive member of society, and I'm here to help you.

[Baby Lee]

Again, spin, spin away. By the way, hell of a game by your desired QB last night. He managed the **** out of that game. Meanwhile, the Colts' LVP tossed for 360 yards and 3 "Tubs".
Yeah, Sanders' block on the int return really saved their bacon. ;)

And FTR, I've never said Garrard is my 'desired' QB. They had something really working last year, now they don't. Haven't paid enough attention to them to dissect what.

[Baby Lee]

LAWL...no, I'm not joking around, I'm satirizing the True Fan, because there is an element of truth in every one of those statements in the OP.
Also, FTR, there's not a scintilla of truth in 90% of those in the topic header

Do you lie awake at nights dreaming of 8-8, or 9-7? - No, next

Do you judge a season as a success by a Wild Card birth? - No, next

Do you believe that defenses and running games are more important than franchise QBs? - Yes overall, franchise QBs without a defense or running game are failed franchise QBs, stout defenses and running games have infinately more options [a QB who grows into a franchise role, a FA QB who puts them over the top, the solid mistake free but not otustanding QB, etc]

Do you hate wide receivers? - No, unless you turn into a must have WR franchise like the Vikes in the 90s and the Raiders and Lions of late

Do you love coaches with a complete inability to spot talent at the running back position? - No, next

Do you think that 3-13 is better for the long term future of the franchise than 2-14? - I think in each case it's more important that the team grow, if they're strong enough to shrug off a loss and have it harden them against losing in the future great, if losing busts their confidence, not so good

Do you think the 2002 Bucs and 2000 Ravens are model NFL teams to aspire to? - one should never model onself after SB champions, particularly ones that to perform at a high level before and after the SB

Do you find playoff records to be irrelevant? - No, next

Do you believe that guards and right tackles should be taken with top five picks? - I'm not even replying to this

Do you believe that a quarterback is best served as a game manager? - the best QBs, elite, franchise, or otherwise, are the ones who are students of the game and understand better than everyone else what's going on. From Phil Simms to Peyton Manning to Troy Aikman, all were game managers, some were more able than others when it came to execution

Do you believe that every 3rd Down play should either be a screen or a draw? - No, next

Do you believe kicker is the most important position on the offense? - No, next

Do you believe that all of the best prospects reside in the Big XII? - No, next

Do you believe in trading down in any situation during the draft? - sure there are situations, their merits vary as widely as there are situations

Do you believe that a team is better served picking 20 rather than 5 because they don't have to pay the player as much? - No, next

Do you believe that the only way to be a winning team is to throw money at the most expensive Free Agents every year, regardless of need? - No, next

Do you judge QBOTF by their box scores? - No, next

Do you think that risk is scary, and therefore, wish to draft last in every round to avoid the perception of failure? - No, next

Do you think that Marty and Bill Cowher are the only two coaches left on the planet? - No, next

Do you think that Gunther was once a great coordinator? - Gun once had the right approach to the great talent he had. He presently doesn't have that talent, or the best approach for what talent he has. Further, I strongly believe that the coaches on defenses have failed badly in preparing our talent to compete, no way Dorsey's as bad as he looks right now and that's just one of the more glaring examples

Do you think that reaction is safer than action? - Hell No, next

Do you think every other team that actually drafted a QBOTF just 'got lucky' and that it could never happen to us? - I think those who drafted a QBOTF because they recognized greatness were the ones who panned out, and those who drafted a QBOTF because that's what they had to do to get better usually ended up regretting it.
In return, do you think the braintrust in Indy would've [or should've, based on their assessment at the time] drafted Leaf if they hadn't been in position to get Manning?

Is your name [alias of claythan and hootie]? - No, next

Do you prefer tailgating to Championships? - No, next

Do you fear the unknown? - No, next

Do you believe that 'being close in the 4th quarter' is the objective of an offense? - No, being close in the 4th is the concern of the defense, if necessary

Do you believe that the run sets up the pass? - both can set the other, though the run is the more reliable way to set things up

Do you believe that Stafford "has done nothing worth mentioning" in college? - No, next

Do you think QBs don't need to know how to play from under the center, and that learning 5 and 7 step drops is irrelevant because once Thigpen completed a 7 yard pass to a hall of fame tight end in quadruple coverage? - that's just stupid

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Also, FTR, there's not a scintilla of truth in 90% of those in the topic header

Do you lie awake at nights dreaming of 8-8, or 9-7? - No, next

Do you judge a season as a success by a Wild Card birth? - No, next

Do you believe that defenses and running games are more important than franchise QBs? - Yes overall, franchise QBs without a defense or running game are failed franchise QBs, stout defenses and running games have infinately more options [a QB who grows into a franchise role, a FA QB who puts them over the top, the solid mistake free but not otustanding QB, etc]

Do you hate wide receivers? - No, unless you turn into a must have WR franchise like the Vikes in the 90s and the Raiders and Lions of late

Do you love coaches with a complete inability to spot talent at the running back position? - No, next

Do you think that 3-13 is better for the long term future of the franchise than 2-14? - I think in each case it's more important that the team grow, if they're strong enough to shrug off a loss and have it harden them against losing in the future great, if losing busts their confidence, not so good

Do you think the 2002 Bucs and 2000 Ravens are model NFL teams to aspire to? - one should never model onself after SB champions, particularly ones that to perform at a high level before and after the SB

Do you find playoff records to be irrelevant? - No, next

Do you believe that guards and right tackles should be taken with top five picks? - I'm not even replying to this

Do you believe that a quarterback is best served as a game manager?

Do you believe that every 3rd Down play should either be a screen or a draw?

Do you believe kicker is the most important position on the offense? - No, next

Do you believe that all of the best prospects reside in the Big XII? - No, next

Do you believe in trading down in any situation during the draft?

Do you believe that a team is better served picking 20 rather than 5 because they don't have to pay the player as much? - No, next

Do you believe that the only way to be a winning team is to throw money at the most expensive Free Agents every year, regardless of need? - No, next

Do you judge QBOTF by their box scores? - No, next

Do you think that risk is scary, and therefore, wish to draft last in every round to avoid the perception of failure? - No, next

Do you think that Marty and Bill Cowher are the only two coaches left on the planet? - No, next

Do you think that Gunther was once a great coordinator?

Do you think that reaction is safer than action? - Hell No, next

Do you think every other team that actually drafted a QBOTF just 'got lucky' and that it could never happen to us? - I think those who drafted a QBOTF because they recognized greatness were the ones who panned out, and those who drafted a QBOTF because that's what they had to do to get better usually ended up regretting it.
In return, do you think the braintrust in Indy would've [or should've, based on their assessment at the time] drafted Leaf if they hadn't been in position to get Manning?

Is your name [alias of claythan and hootie]? - No, next

Do you prefer tailgating to Championships? - No, next

Do you fear the unknown? - No, next

Do you believe that 'being close in the 4th quarter' is the objective of an offense? - No, being close in the 4th is the concern of the defense, if necessary

Do you believe that the run sets up the pass? - both can set the other, though the run is the more reliable way to set things up

Do you believe that Stafford "has done nothing worth mentioning" in college? - No, next

Do you think QBs don't need to know how to play from under the center, and that learning 5 and 7 step drops is irrelevant because once Thigpen completed a 7 yard pass to a hall of fame tight end in quadruple coverage? - that's just stupid

So, despite the fact that Marty is your coaching infatuation, you find years with wild card births to be failures, you overlook the fact that he has no ability to spot RB talent, that playoff success is relevant.

That's hilariously ironic.

I also enjoy the fact that none of the teams who drafted QBs because they needed them worked out. Hate to point this out to you, but that's precisely why the Petyon and Eli Mannings and Elways of the world were drafted by those teams, and precisely why teams like the Giants gave up two firsts, a third, and a fifth for Eli.

I'd also like to point out that the 2002 Bucs and 2000 Ravens have been to exactly 0 Super Bowls since their victories, 0 Conference Championships since their victories, the Bucs have had losing seasons in 3/6 years despite fielding a great defense near that entire time.

Tampa's record in the playoffs since 2002: 0-2
Baltimore's record in the playoffs since 2000: 1-2

Awesome franchises to model oneself after.

Sorry, I go for the Colts and Pats, or the 9ers and Cowboys of yesteryear...the teams that you know, had threats at the quarterback position.

Funny how once the 9ers lost Young and the Cowboys lost Aikman that neither team has done anything of note since, eh?

I'd also like to know why people claim they don't consider Wild Card berths a success yet they clamor for the 1990's.

[Rain Man]

I must admit that I'm confused about the debate now. Back when the debate began, it was "do you want to lose as many games as possible to get a higher draft pick?" and "do you trade all of your players with value to stockpile draft picks"? Now it seems to be about the value of quarterbacks. I think we all agree that a franchise quarterback is a valuable thing. At least I think we all do, so that's a boring topic.

The first topic above is somewhat interesting, if only in the fact that there's disagreement. The second question has already been answered, and statistics say the answer is no.

[Baby Lee]

Funny how once the 9ers lost Young and the Cowboys lost Aikman that neither team has done anything of note since, eh?
By the time they were rid of Aikman, the 'boys hadn't done anything of note for 5 years WITH him, and Harper and Irvin had been replaced by Galloway and Ismael, and the O-line had aged and retired [like a certain KC team of the mid 00s].

The 49ers fell apart from stem to stern when Young left, Debartolo was in criminal trouble, they were in cap hell, their D was giving up 40 points a game and they were starting a rookie QB. Their problems post-Young are far beyond a reflection of the importance of a QB.

Seriously, if you're gonna throw out 'the root of the 49ers problem is the loss of their Franchise QB,' you lost your license to dozens anyone for their FB takes.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

By the time they were rid of Aikman, the 'boys hadn't done anything of note for 5 years WITH him, and Harper and Irvin had been replaced by Galloway and Ismael, and the O-line had aged and retired [like a certain KC team of the mid 00s].

The 49ers fell apart from stem to stern when Young left, Debartolo was in criminal trouble, they were in cap hell, their D was giving up 40 points a game and they were starting a rookie QB. Their problems post-Young are far beyond a reflection of the importance of a QB.

FWIW, Alvin Harper left after 92 to go to Tampa, so he really wasn't a factor in that dynasty at all. Joey Galloway was a much better WR than Alvin Harper ever was.

Those 9er teams were still competitive even into the late 90's with Young, to the point of going 12-4 and winning a playoff game the year before, with the 23rd ranked D. The "rookie" QB they were starting the next year was a 29 year old who had played for several years in the CFL. He wasn't straight out of SJST.

Again, you are conflating QBs with all the reason. It's not that QB is the entire reason for a team's success or failure, but it is the primary differentiating factor between continued competitiveness at the SB level, and the one and done's of so many others.

Marty's Chief teams were always paper tigers. They were far better in the Standings than they were in the playoffs. It happened time and time again. One of the main reasons is that although the teams were coached very well, and they consistently beat the trash of the league, they never had the quarterback to make plays when it had to be done in the playoffs.

A franchise QB leads them to a win in '97 against Denver and doesn't forget what down it is or how much time there is on the clock. A franchise QB doesn't throw three picks and get pulled and make them have to settle for a 40+ yard field goal in 0 degree weather with a bitch of a wind.

And yet, after all this time, people still think that the game manager mold and copying the 1990's is the path to success. It didn't work then and it definitely won't work now.

[Baby Lee]

Again, you are conflating QBs with all the reason. It's not that QB is the entire reason for a team's success or failure, but it is the primary differentiating factor between continued competitiveness at the SB level, and the one and done's of so many others.
And you're conflating their lack of success after losing a long term franchise QB with said loss of QB, teams generally blow everything up when a long time leader leaves, the 9ers spectacularly so with their cap and legal problems on the heels of the ascendency of the Rams, and later Seahawks, in their division.
And Harper was on BOTH of their SB teams, and they haven't won a playoff game since he left. Further, it still stands, they didn't win a playoff game for 5 years WITH Aikman and without Harper, not that he's the lynchpin, but that Aikman's not the lynchpin you think he is.

If anything, Aikman is a very successful version of the manager QB you deride, stay cool, ride the running game, stick to the script and don't take a ton of sacks or make a ton of INTs, a formula that was perfected by Simms.

[Mecca]

Did you really just place more value on a number 2 WR who just ran fly patterns than on the teams HOF QB....that's bright.

[banyon]

And Harper was on BOTH of their SB teams, and they haven't won a playoff game since he left. Further, it still stands, they didn't win a playoff game for 5 years WITH Aikman and without Harper, not that he's the lynchpin, but that Aikman's not the lynchpin you think he is.
.

There were 3 SB teams. The Cowboys won in 1996 with Irvin and Kevin Williams at WR and Aikman at QB for all 3.

Harper did leave after the 2nd SB win in 94 though.

[Baby Lee]

Did you really just place more value on a number 2 WR who just ran fly patterns than on the teams HOF QB....that's bright.

That's pretty much NOT what I did, pretty explicitly.
Starting to understand why you are the way you are.

[Mecca]

You are doing exactly what I talked about in another thread. You think Aikman was a game manager because of his stats, when he clearly wasn't.

If fantasy football had been prevalent in those days people would have constantly bitched about how Aikman doesn't put up big stats.

[Baby Lee]

You are doing exactly what I talked about in another thread. You think Aikman was a game manager because of his stats, when he clearly wasn't.

If fantasy football had been prevalent in those days people would have constantly bitched about how Aikman doesn't put up big stats.

I think that because I watched the games. Great lines, great run game production. And QB play marked by execution and lack of mistakes, rather than gunslinging and cockiness. See, you hate the term game manager, because you think it's enexorably a bad thing. I'm not dissing him, I'm putting him in his proper perspective, an effective part of a great TEAM, doing his job.

[Mecca]

Only on Chiefsplanet is there someone who believes Troy Aikman wasn't a franchise player.

[Rain Man]

I never understood the Aikman love. Aikman was a fine quarterback, but as a fan were you scared of Aikman? I sure wasn't. I was scared of Marino. I was scared of Montana. I was scared of Randall Cunningham. Aikman handed off really well behind a stellar offensive line and was a good quarterback in the passing game. Not a great quarterback.

Don't confuse that with saying I wouldn't have wanted him on our team. There's nothing wrong with Troy Aikman. But he was the driver of a pretty fast car in Dallas.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

And you're conflating their lack of success after losing a long term franchise QB with said loss of QB, teams generally blow everything up when a long time leader leaves, the 9ers spectacularly so with their cap and legal problems on the heels of the ascendency of the Rams, and later Seahawks, in their division.
And Harper was on BOTH of their SB teams, and they haven't won a playoff game since he left. Further, it still stands, they didn't win a playoff game for 5 years WITH Aikman and without Harper, not that he's the lynchpin, but that Aikman's not the lynchpin you think he is.

If anything, Aikman is a very successful version of the manager QB you deride, stay cool, ride the running game, stick to the script and don't take a ton of sacks or make a ton of INTs, a formula that was perfected by Simms.

Aikman was so much much more than a game manager, and part of their decline was attributed to the continual concussions that he received and the debut of the Troy Aikman face.

If you put Troy Aikman on the '97 Chiefs they win the Super Bowl, and the '95 Chiefs would get to the Super Bowl. They had the quintessential game manager QBs and we saw what it got them.

[Baby Lee]

Only on Chiefsplanet is there someone who believes Troy Aikman wasn't a franchise player.

Faites vous parlez l'anglais?

[Rain Man]

I think that because I watched the games. Great lines, great run game production. And QB play marked by execution and lack of mistakes, rather than gunslinging and cockiness. See, you hate the term game manager, because you think it's enexorably a bad thing. I'm not dissing him, I'm putting him in his proper perspective, an effective part of a great TEAM, doing his job.

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with a game manager, and he was great at that. I view a "game manager" in the same way. They don't make mistakes, and they help their team win. Nothing wrong with that. They just need a better team around them than a franchise quarterback does.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I never understood the Aikman love. Aikman was a fine quarterback, but as a fan were you scared of Aikman? I sure wasn't. I was scared of Marino. I was scared of Montana. I was scared of Randall Cunningham. Aikman handed off really well behind a stellar offensive line and was a good quarterback in the passing game. Not a great quarterback.

Don't confuse that with saying I wouldn't have wanted him on our team. There's nothing wrong with Troy Aikman. But he was the driver of a pretty fast car in Dallas.

He seemed to do a pretty good job whipping our ass on Thanksgiving in 1995. Meanwhile, and I remember this from tape, while NBC (perhaps Bob Trumpy) was pimping Marty talking about how the Chiefs were deeper 1-53 than Dallas, the playmakers on the Cowboys absolutely eviscerated the "depth" of the Chiefs.

[Baby Lee]

Aikman was so much much more than a game manager, and part of their decline was attributed to the continual concussions that he received and the debut of the Troy Aikman face.

If you put Troy Aikman on the '97 Chiefs they win the Super Bowl, and the '95 Chiefs would get to the Super Bowl. They had the quintessential game manager QBs and we saw what it got them.

See now, you must realize how much you're flailing, espousing two SHITTY SHITTY game managers as the quintessential game managing QB.


That's about like saying that American cars suck because the Pinto was the best car they ever made and it sucked.

[Mecca]

If Troy Aikman was a game manager that did nothing but hand off his #1 WR wouldn't be in the HOF now would he...

[Baby Lee]

He seemed to do a pretty good job whipping our ass on Thanksgiving in 1995. Meanwhile, and I remember this from tape, while NBC (perhaps Bob Trumpy) was pimping Marty talking about how the Chiefs were deeper 1-53 than Dallas, the playmakers on the Cowboys absolutely eviscerated the "depth" of the Chiefs.

A 24-12 road loss is an ass whupping?

[Mecca]

I'd love to know why some still devalue the most important position on the field.

[Rain Man]

If Troy Aikman was a game manager that did nothing but hand off his #1 WR wouldn't be in the HOF now would he...

America's team and some Super Bowl rings will get you a long way. Pretty much any quarterback with a couple of Super Bowl rings will get in, especially if he's a Cowboy.

Again, Aikman was a fine quarterback. I personally don't think he's a Hall of Famer, but he's better than what most of the league puts out there.

[Mecca]

America's team and some Super Bowl rings will get you a long way. Pretty much any quarterback with a couple of Super Bowl rings will get in, especially if he's a Cowboy.

Again, Aikman was a fine quarterback. I personally don't think he's a Hall of Famer, but he's better than what most of the league puts out there.

It's hard to value something you've never had I guess.

[Baby Lee]

I'd love to know why some still devalue the most important position on the field.

Perhaps NONE can value it as much as you and Hamas the Jokeman Jenkins.


http://i.xanga.com/Forever_Lord_of_the_Rings/t/Gollum%20n%20the%20Ring.jpg

[Mecca]

You are sitting here trying to tell us Troy Aikman really wasn't all that, you lumped him in with Alvin Harper for christ sake.

[Rain Man]

He seemed to do a pretty good job whipping our ass on Thanksgiving in 1995. Meanwhile, and I remember this from tape, while NBC (perhaps Bob Trumpy) was pimping Marty talking about how the Chiefs were deeper 1-53 than Dallas, the playmakers on the Cowboys absolutely eviscerated the "depth" of the Chiefs.

While this debate shouldn't center on one game, I'll note that the Cowboys had 175 net passing yards (192 gross), and the Chiefs had 11 penalties. Aikman had a good completion percentage, but one-third of his yards came on two plays. Dallas ran more than they passed.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/199511230dal.htm

[Rain Man]

It's hard to value something you've never had I guess.

Sadly, maybe so. But I think neither of us has had one.

[Baby Lee]

You are sitting here trying to tell us Troy Aikman really wasn't all that, you lumped him in with Alvin Harper for christ sake.

Jesus, just STOP!! Go back, read slowly and carefully. Sound it out if you have to, have someone read it for you. Something!!!

[Baby Lee]

While this debate shouldn't center on one game, I'll note that the Cowboys had 175 net passing yards (192 gross), and the Chiefs had 11 penalties. Aikman had a good completion percentage, but one-third of his yards came on two plays. Dallas ran more than they passed.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/199511230dal.htm


Absolute evisceration!!!!

Well them's the stakes when failball meets The Precious.

[DeezNutz]

Has anyone here seen 2 QB's, 1 cup? I'm surprised that the director got Stafford and Bradford to do this.

[Baby Lee]

Sadly, maybe so. But I think neither of us has had one.

Well, if you'd stop dreaming of 8-8, beating your kicker's meat, and drawing up sweet third down draw plays . . .

[Rain Man]

I'd love to know why some still devalue the most important position on the field.

I don't think Baby Lee and I are devaluing quarterbacks. We all want a whoopass quarterback. I assumed this was just a debate about Troy Aikman, who was the Curtis Martin of quarterbacks. You don't have to worry about the position with those guys and they'll perform well, but you don't necessarily build a team around them to highlight their skills. When Shula got Marino, he changed from a run-first team to a pass-first team. The Cowboys never became a pass-first team. The only conclusion is that they thought their team's talents were best suited for a run-first team.

[Rain Man]

Well, if you'd stop dreaming of 8-8, beating your kicker's meat, and drawing up sweet third down draw plays . . .

But 8-8 is what I strive for. It's perfect symmetry. Yin and Yang. Why would I seek imbalance?

[Mecca]

You do understand that Aikman was the 1st pick right, yes they had alot of good players but he was the 1st player Jimmy Johnson drafted and the guy they built the rest of the team around.

Just because they were a team that was built on running the ball and playaction passing does not devalue what Aikman was or what he meant to him, he was the guy that kept that team in line on the field.

[Baby Lee]

Just because they were a team that was built on running the ball and playaction passing does not devalue what Aikman was or what he meant to him, he was the guy that kept that team in line on the field.

ROFL ROFL - if only there were a word that encapsulated . . . .

[Mecca]

ROFL ROFL - if only there were a word that encapsulated . . . .

Yea because the Cowboys were never inline on the field right....for all their issues they were always kept in line on the field because every single player on that team had respect for Aikman.

[Rain Man]

How'd the Cowboys do, though, when Emmitt Smif held out and they were starting Sherman Williams or whomever? I seem to recall that that was ugly. Then Emmitt Smif came back and I think they won the Super Bowl.

I think Johnson was a good coach purely because he didn't build the team around one player. He built a team (at least, an offense) that was strong all around. But if I had to pick the centerpiece of that offense, it was Smif.

[Rain Man]

Dang it. Gotta go. Keep fighting the good fight, Baby Lee.

[Mecca]

How'd the Cowboys do, though, when Emmitt Smif held out and they were starting Sherman Williams or whomever? I seem to recall that that was ugly. Then Emmitt Smif came back and I think they won the Super Bowl.

I think Johnson was a good coach purely because he didn't build the team around one player. He built a team (at least, an offense) that was strong all around. But if I had to pick the centerpiece of that offense, it was Smif.

If you had taken Aikman away the same thing would have happened....they were both equally valuable which is why they are both HOFers.

[Baby Lee]

Yea because the Cowboys were never inline on the field right....for all their issues they were always kept in line on the field because every single player on that team had respect for Aikman.

You're drinking, aren't you? Mouse turds?

Wasn't laughing about the thought that Aikman kept them in line. I'm laughing because keeping them in line is what a game manager does, and you touted it as his best skill after arguing for weeks that to call him that is an insult.

[Mecca]

.....god you're a retard.