OK Thigpen lovers, here's a reason to be excited.

[Hammock Parties]

These are franchise quarterback throws. If Thigpen can do this consistently there's no reason he shouldn't be the starter. The TD pass in particular reminds me of the throw he missed to Bowe in Denver down by the goal line. The 30-yard bomb is exquisite.

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Now commence with the jerking off.

[Fritz88]

nice throws by our Thug

[Jenson71]

Two?

[The_Doctor10]

These are franchise quarterback throws. If Thigpen can do this consistently there's no reason he shouldn't be the starter. The TD pass in particular reminds me of the throw he missed to Bowe in Denver down by the goal line. The 30-yard bomb is exquisite.

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Now commence with the jerking off.

Eli Manning was woefully inaccurate his first three years until the playoffs last season. And he couldn't even scramble. Give the kid a little more time; at least the benefit of a full off-season to prepare for starting 16 games.

[kcxiv]

Yep, no one is willing to give him an offseason to work with the wide outs and tight ends. He was just thrown in there and told bitch, make chicken salad out of chicken shit (Hi, Casey Printers). He did just that. We were averaging 10 points per game pre thiggy and something like 19 overall. With him starting i am sure its a bit higher.

I am not saying he's the answer, but i have no problem with him competing for the starting job.

[beach tribe]

I'm sorry, but the second throw is a Sam Bradford type, that I could easily make.

[KCJohnny]

Have a look.

Thigpen on the run (http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80d246c7).

Thigpen on the run getting hit as he throws a TD pass (http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80d22b3e).<!-- / message -->

[Hammock Parties]

I'm sorry, but the second throw is a Sam Bradford type, that I could easily make.

Eh, give credit where it's due. He didn't even come close in Denver.

[rad]

That first one was a touchdown. A good ref would have seen that.

[BigMeatballDave]

Color me unimpressed. Any QB thats gonna play at this level should be able to make these throws with ease. Consistantly.

[PhillyChiefFan]

I'm def willing to give him time and another chance go lead this team. He has earned it.

[BigVE]

Even Huard has some highlight throws here and there, doesn't mean I want him as my starter. Don't get me wrong, I like Thigpen, but an occasional good throw here or there does not mean he can/will/should be our future Qb. He deserves a shot to compete for the job for sure. Bring in a veteran QB in the offseason in case Thigpen doesn't work out and see what happens. ALL of this is moot if we end up drafting Stafford...then I say let Thigpen ride the pine and get the rook some experience!!!!

[penguinz]

That first one was a touchdown. A good ref would have seen that.
No it wasn't. But it was closer to the goal line than it was placed.

[BigMeatballDave]

That first one was a touchdown. A good ref would have seen that.No it wasnt. The ball never broke the plane of the goalline.

[BigMeatballDave]

I'm def willing to give him time and another chance go lead this team. He has earned it.Not quite. Draft a QB and let them compete. He hasn't earned the right to be penciled in as the starter now.

[rad]

No it wasn't. But it was closer to the goal line than it was placed.


It must have been super-close then.....the ball looks like it crosses right above the pylon, which is inbounds.

[Reerun_KC]

Not quite. Draft a QB and let them compete. He hasn't earned the right to be penciled in as the starter now.

Until Thigpen can consistently throw the simple 10 yard out pattern that ISNT 15 feet over the receivers head.. Then he has earned it... He struggles mightly with SIMPLE routine NFL throws...


Draft and see IF Thigpen can actually earn it in camp...

[Reerun_KC]

Make a video of the over throws?

Then compare the good ones with the bad ones...

[JohnnyV13]

Thigpen makes some good throws, then makes some awful throws. He has some playmaking ability, but seems to fade as the game goes on. I really don't know why.

I think he might be better after a full offseason as the starter, a full offseason for the D coordinator to develop the pistol offense, and time to work on speciality situations like red zone plays with receivers in camp. But who really knows? Even if you draft a guy like Stafford (or, if we stay with the pistol, guys like Bradford or Tebow in the 2nd round become more reasonable options), sitting the rookie isn't such a bad idea.

[BigMeatballDave]

It must have been super-close then.....the ball looks like it crosses right above the pylon, which is inbounds.Unless its been changed, I believe pylons are considered out.

[rad]

According to referee Ed Hochuli who is quoted in the article that you can read at the 'Touchdown or No Touchdown' link below, a player who crosses out of bounds is awarded a touchdown if a part of his body touches in the end zone, or the pylon, after the ball crosses the 'imaginary' goal line outside the pylons.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/If_an_NFL_player_flies_out_of_bounds_before_crossing_the_goal_line_in_bounds_but_the_ball_crosses_th e_extended_goal_line_out_of_bounds_before_the_player%27s_body_hits_the_ground_is_it_scored_a_touchdo wn

To illustrate, a few years ago Warrick Dunn dove for the pylon, but missed badly, landing a few feet out of bounds. However, on his way down his foot clipped the pylon. The pylon is considered in-bounds (because the interior face of the pylon is lined up precisely with the sideline), and Dunn was credited with a touchdown. If you re-read my explanation for the "third method" to score a touchdown, he possessed the ball while technically in bounds and beyond the goal line. The ruling was correct.

http://www.east-coast-bias.com/2007/10/plane-of-goal-line.html

[BigVE]

Unless its been changed, I believe pylons are considered out.

Huh? Pylon have been IN for as long as I can remember. ?

[Mr. Laz]

Unless its been changed, I believe pylons are considered out.
incorrect

[BigMeatballDave]

I've seen a ball kicked or fumbled touch a pylon and be called a touchback.

[Mr. Laz]

I've seen a ball kicked or fumbled touch a pylon and be called a touchback.
yes ..... because going into the endzone is a touchback

touching the pylon is "in the endzone" therefore is a touchback.

[TRR]

I am of the belief that either Stafford or Bradford will fall to us at the #3 spot. But, I think Thigpen will probably battle either for the starting job in their first season regardless.

There are throws that Thigpen makes that make you think, "WOW! This cat is the real thing." And there are throws that make you think he should be no better than a third stringer. Such is the life of a 2nd year QB with no playing time up until this season. Every young QB does it. You stick Thigpen on Atlanta, and put Matt Ryan on KC...I think you would have similiar results. Same goes if we flip-flopped the Ravens with Joe Flacco. It's about the talent around them when they are young.

I'm on board with Thigpen. If Croyle would have shown 75% of what Thigpen did this season, then I think he would be back next season as the starter. Why not give Thigpen the same respect?

[BigVE]

I've seen a ball kicked or fumbled touch a pylon and be called a touchback.


Dude, I SERIOUSLY have to question your "fan-hood" on this one....the pylon being in or out is POP WARNER stuff. You ARE a dude, right? If your a chic then I forgive you. ;)

[BigVE]

I am of the belief that either Stafford or Bradford will fall to us at the #3 spot. But, I think Thigpen will probably battle either for the starting job in their first season regardless.

There are throws that Thigpen makes that make you think, "WOW! This cat is the real thing." And there are throws that make you think he should be no better than a third stringer. Such is the life of a 2nd year QB with no playing time up until this season. Every young QB does it. You stick Thigpen on Atlanta, and put Matt Ryan on KC...I think you would have similiar results. Same goes if we flip-flopped the Ravens with Joe Flacco. It's about the talent around them when they are young.

I'm on board with Thigpen. If Croyle would have shown 75% of what Thigpen did this season, then I think he would be back next season as the starter. Why not give Thigpen the same respect?



I'm of the belief that Thigpen is good enough to allow us to focus on defensive players early in the draft and pick up a QB like Graham Harrell in later round 3 or so...or someome like him.

[penguinz]

It must have been super-close then.....the ball looks like it crosses right above the pylon, which is inbounds.The ball has to break the plane before the player is out of bounds. He had the ball on his back hip which had not broken the plane before he stepped out.

[rad]

The ball has to break the plane before the player is out of bounds. He had the ball on his back hip which had not broken the plane before he stepped out.

According to referee Ed Hochuli who is quoted in the article that you can read at the 'Touchdown or No Touchdown' link below, a player who crosses out of bounds is awarded a touchdown if a part of his body touches in the end zone, or the pylon, after the ball crosses the 'imaginary' goal line outside the pylons.

What does this mean?

[BigMeatballDave]

Dude, I SERIOUSLY have to question your "fan-hood" on this one....the pylon being in or out is POP WARNER stuff. You ARE a dude, right? If your a chic then I forgive you. ;)The rules concerning the pylons contradict themselves. They are part of the playing field, yet they are sitting on the sideline. If a fumbled ball rolls into a pylon, its considered a touchback. By ruling it a touchback, you are saying it is out of the endzone, out of bounds.

[BigVE]

The rules concerning the pylons contradict themselves. They are part of the playing field, yet they are sitting on the sideline. If a fumbled ball rolls into a pylon, its considered a touchback. By ruling it a touchback, you are saying it is out of the endzone, out of bounds.

Honestly man, your conception is totally wrong. The pylons are set down IN THE FIELD of play, just inside the corners of the endzone. If a guy fumbles the ball OUT OF BOUNDs then the ball would be placed at that spot...it's only a touchback if the ball goes IN the endzone which would be IN BOUNDS, not out.

[BigMeatballDave]

Honestly man, your conception is totally wrong. The pylons are set down IN THE FIELD of play, just inside the corners of the endzone. No they're not. Check the location of the pylons in the videos provided.

[BigMeatballDave]

If a guy fumbles the ball OUT OF BOUNDs then the ball would be placed at that spot...it's only a touchback if the ball goes IN the endzone which would be IN BOUNDS, not out.I'm talking about a ball rolling into a pylon from outside the endzone. I've seen that occur and it was ruled a touchback.

[BigVE]

No they're not. Check the location of the pylons in the videos provided.


Nah, never mind. Some day you'll figure it out but not today. Thanks for playing though.

[rad]

The pylon is considered in-bounds (because the interior face of the pylon is lined up precisely with the sideline)

read post #21

[BigMeatballDave]

Nah, never mind. Some day you'll figure it out but not today. Thanks for playing though.No need to be a prick. I'm not. I'm just trying to point out that rules involving pylons are contradicting.

[BigVE]

No need to be a prick. I'm not. I'm just trying to point out that rules involving pylons are contradicting.

Not being a prick...it's like trying to argue with my wife...she is NEVER wrong even when she IS. The rule is only contradiction if you misundertand it in MY opinion. Better?

[BigMeatballDave]

(because the interior face of the pylon is lined up precisely with the sideline)

read post #21According to this pic, the entire pylon is out of bounds. http://espn.go.com/media/pg2/2005/0210/photo/g_pylon_bi.jpg

[BigMeatballDave]

Not being a prick...it's like trying to argue with my wife...she is NEVER wrong even when she IS. The rule is only contradiction if you misundertand it in MY opinion. Better?I'm not saying I am not wrong. I misinterpreted that rule.

[BigVE]

According to this pic, the entire pylon is out of bounds. http://espn.go.com/media/pg2/2005/0210/photo/g_pylon_bi.jpg

Ok, I guess I see how you/I could get confused on this one.

[rad]

According to this pic, the entire pylon is out of bounds. http://espn.go.com/media/pg2/2005/0210/photo/g_pylon_bi.jpg

No, it's not. The interior face of the pylon is lined up with the sideline.

[BigMeatballDave]

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff124/JackBurton86/RWayne_td.jpgHere's another pic. That pylon appears to be completely out. This is why I believe the rule is contradictory. I was wrong about the pylons being out.

[BigMeatballDave]

No, it's not. The interior face of the pylon is lined up with the sideline.That may be, but the pylon is out. If part of the ball or your foot is on the sideline, its considered out, is it not?

[petegz28]

Thigy threw better passes than those two in his starts. Particularly the bombs he was nailing with Bradley in his first few starts.

[petegz28]

That may be, but the pylon is out. If part of the ball or your foot is on the sideline, its considered out, is it not?

The goaline stretchs into out of bounds and the pylon is lined up on the goalline. It is a very hard argument to make that when you hit the pylon you did not cross the goalline. Only an NFL Ref can fuck that up. :doh!:

[rad]

That may be, but the pylon is out. If part of the ball or your foot is on the sideline, its considered out, is it not?

Can you please just read post #21, and click the link? It will explain.

I don't feel like arguing this anymore.

[RealSNR]

I'm of the belief that Thigpen is good enough to allow us to focus on defensive players early in the draft and pick up a QB like Graham Harrell in later round 3 or so...or someome like him.You're making the assumption that Thigpen will improve enough to be a legitimate starting QB in the NFL. He's got a lot of work to do to make different offensive formations work for him, and not just be a one-dimensional kind of player. Otherwise there's no way we can beat really good teams, which is what you have to do if you want to compete in the NFL.

Drafting Stafford in the first round at least shows that the Chiefs want that position fixed, and competition between two talented players seems to always be the best way to achieve that. Getting a QB in the later rounds of the draft just won't do it, I'm afraid. We need Stafford, not another Brodie Croyle.

[BigVE]

You're making the assumption that Thigpen will improve enough to be a legitimate starting QB in the NFL. He's got a lot of work to do to make different offensive formations work for him, and not just be a one-dimensional kind of player. Otherwise there's no way we can beat really good teams, which is what you have to do if you want to compete in the NFL.

Drafting Stafford in the first round at least shows that the Chiefs want that position fixed, and competition between two talented players seems to always be the best way to achieve that. Getting a QB in the later rounds of the draft just won't do it, I'm afraid. We need Stafford, not another Brodie Croyle.

True I guess. But your also assuming that Stafford will end up being a high caliber QB in the NFL. Your also assuming that my personal 2nd best pick of qb's (Harrell) WONT be a good qb by comparing him to Croyle. Harrell has the size the arm and the mobility to make it in the NFL. I'm thinking he will be gone in round 2 or 3 at the latest. He reminds me of Flacco.

[RealSNR]

True I guess. But your also assuming that Stafford will end up being a high caliber QB in the NFL. Your also assuming that my personal 2nd best pick of qb's (Harrell) WONT be a good qb by comparing him to Croyle. Harrell has the size the arm and the mobility to make it in the NFL. I'm thinking he will be gone in round 2 or 3 at the latest. He reminds me of Flacco.Croyle was thought to be one of the more talented QBs in that draft.

[dorseybowe]

Stafford

[BigVE]

Croyle was thought to be one of the more talented QBs in that draft.


Talent is/was there...it's his health that has been his biggest issue.

[FloridaMan88]

I'm def willing to give him time and another chance go lead this team. He has earned it.

Why has he earned it? The Chiefs won exactly 1 game with him as the starter.

[stevieray]

Why has he earned it? The Chiefs won exactly 1 game with him as the starter. and how many games did you think we would win this year with croyle..? and now you're shocked it happened with a third stringer off the bench?

he is the only reason they were even competitive...he's the reason TG led TEs in TDs, and Bowe escaped a sophmore slump, with a 1K season.

I have no problem drafting a QB, but TT deserves a chance for the starting job, the right QB will present itself in camp.

[Hootie]

I would take Matt Ryan over Thigpen in less than a millisecond...I don't know if I'd take Flacco over Thigpen, though.

[BigMeatballDave]

I would take Matt Ryan over Thigpen in less than a millisecond...I don't know if I'd take Flacco over Thigpen, though.Flacco>Thig. Not. Even. Close.

[Hootie]

Flacco>Thig. Not. Even. Close.

Why?

What did he show this year that makes you think that?

I'd be ok with the following post...

"Flacco and Thigpen are complete garbage."

That would be much more accurate than what you just posted.

[Ultra Peanut]

It's like a high school highlight tape.

[SoCalBronco]

http://www.fasthack.com/images/weblog/2005/11/patmorita-miyagi.jpg

Miyagi think Thigpen too wet behind ear. Need learn pocket presence.

Wax on...............Wax off.

Thigpen: WTF is this? What am I learning with this drill? Jeezus, and I thought Dick Curl didn't know what he was doing.

Miyagi: Thigpen-son, you need FOCUS. Either play in Calgary and live in basement of mother like gochief, or be good NFL QB. Choice up to you.

Thigpen: (Sighs). Fine. Wax on.............wax off. How long do I need to do this drill?

Miyagi: Every day 6 am to 6 pm.

Thigpen: But WTF does this have to do with football?

Miyagi: Make timing on pass perfect. Dwayne Bowe drop enough ball already, no need make worse with bad timing on route.

[penguinz]

According to referee Ed Hochuli who is quoted in the article that you can read at the 'Touchdown or No Touchdown' link below, a player who crosses out of bounds is awarded a touchdown if a part of his body touches in the end zone, or the pylon, after the ball crosses the 'imaginary' goal line outside the pylons.

What does this mean?You left out one really important part which I bolded in red for you. Bowe stepped out before the ball crossed the plane.

[BigMeatballDave]

Why?

What did he show this year that makes you think that?

I'd be ok with the following post...

"Flacco and Thigpen are complete garbage."

That would be much more accurate than what you just posted.Because Thig is HORRIBLY inaccurate. Not to mention, he cannot adjust as the game goes on. Its not a fluke that his 4th qt. rating sucks balls.

[HemiEd]

Here is to hoping you never jump on the Tyler Thigpen bandwagon. You are the kiss of failure.

signed,
Damon Huard, Larry Johnson and Devard Darling.

[HemiEd]

Why has he earned it? The Chiefs won exactly 1 game with him as the starter.

And they had ZERO chance of winning any game he didn't start.

[RealSNR]

Why?

What did he show this year that makes you think that?

I'd be ok with the following post...

"Flacco and Thigpen are complete garbage."

That would be much more accurate than what you just posted.Flacco throws less interceptions and is more accurate. He's no Kyle Boller.

[Hammock Parties]

Here is to hoping you never jump on the Tyler Thigpen bandwagon. You are the kiss of failure.

signed,
Damon Huard, Larry Johnson and Devard Darling.

That is such bull.

Huard and LJ did very well. Larry is still going to do well.

[chiefsngop]

Thigpen has proved 2 things this year, IMO.

1. He can be an actual #2 QB, giving us a true backup QB, something this team hasn't had in awhile.

2. He should be allowed to compete for the starting job next year, and put pressure on our drafted QB to perform and actually "win" the starting job in camp and PS. This would force the QB we bring in to "win" the starting job and not simply have it "handed" to him like Broken Croyle.

[Danman]

YES Thigpen fans, Get excited. Get VERY excited. With the third pick in the draft the Chiefs have the chance to draft a legitimate franchise QB in Sanchez, Bradford, or Stafford. Any one of them will make people forget about Thiggy in a hurry.

[BigMeatballDave]

Thigpen has proved 2 things this year, IMO.

1. He can be an actual #2 QB, giving us a true backup QB, something this team hasn't had in awhile.

2. He should be allowed to compete for the starting job next year, and put pressure on our drafted QB to perform and actually "win" the starting job in camp and PS. This would force the QB we bring in to "win" the starting job and not simply have it "handed" to him like Broken Croyle.1. Huard is a fine backup.
2. I'm OK with him competing for a starting position, he'll just need to learn a pro-style offense and play from under center, which he cannot do.

[Hootie]

Flacco throws less interceptions and is more accurate. He's no Kyle Boller.
The only reason Flacco is getting the hype is because he doesn't need to play that well for Baltimore to win...they win with a good running game and a great defense.

In order for the Chiefs to win, they need Tyler Thigpen to play a perfect game...which is totally unfair and has clouded the judgment of the entire board because the Chiefs didn't win games this year.

Thigpen performed very well given the circumstances...he still gets an A+++ from this Chiefs fan.

I don't think he will be a franchise QB but I think he has the potential to possibly develop into one...plus arm, ability to move in the pocket, seems to be a good leader...not great size but still decent.

Either way, Stafford or Sanchez at #3 would be awesome...nothing wrong with competition...I'd love to see a Drew Brees/Philip Rivers situation in Kansas City...two is better than zero.

[BigMeatballDave]

The only reason Flacco is getting the hype is because he doesn't need to play that well for Baltimore to win...they win with a good running game and a great defense.

This may be true, but his passing percentage is 60, while Thigpen's is 54.

[Hootie]

This may be true, but his passing percentage is 60, while Thigpen's is 54.

Flacco was put into a position to succeed...Thigpen wasn't.

Thigpen had better numbers than Flacco this year...and had Thigpen QB'd the Ravens I think they'd still have the same amount of wins...

The fact the Chiefs had to rely on Thigpen to play an amazing game in order for them to even have a 50/50 chance of winning a game is just ridiculous...and reason for Herm to be fired.

The fact that Thigpen got through it with some fans/analysts thinking he could be a franchise QB is truly amazing...

Thigpen was put in a terrible situation where 99/100 2nd year 7th round project picks would have failed miserably...and we'd be looking at Quinn Gray/FA/FA/FA...the fact Thigpen made it through the season as starter, kept us competitive in most games, and didn't get injured like the other two is a feat in its own.

If Sanchez or Stafford is available at #3, you take them...no doubt...but Thigpen should get a lot more credit from this board then he does...at least he made half of the season entertaining...those first several weeks were BRUTAL.

[kcxiv]

1. Huard is a fine backup.
2. I'm OK with him competing for a starting position, he'll just need to learn a pro-style offense and play from under center, which he cannot do.

Why cant he? I do know 1 thing from watching this passed season. No qb was goign to be successful under that offensive line.

[chiefsngop]

1. Huard is a fine backup.
2. I'm OK with him competing for a starting position, he'll just need to learn a pro-style offense and play from under center, which he cannot do.

Totally agree he has to learn to play from under center.

I don't have much faith in Thiggy, but I'd like to see him with a different QB coach, and a right side O-line that can actually pass block, before I'd say he absolutely "can't" play from under center. He's too young, playing under Dick Curl, and has no pass blockers on the right side of the line, for you, or anyone else, to say he 100% "can't" do it. I'd prefer Thiggy not start for us next year, but you can't take a QB with only 1 real year of experience, coupled with all the problems I've listed above, and say he "can't" play from under center even in the future.

I also totally disagree that Huard is a "fine backup" as you stated.

Maybe a couple years ago, and that's a maybe, as I believe his success was much more system related than due to his talent.

But if the new GM and HC do get this franchise turned around, I don't want a late season injury to our QB, putting us in the position of Damon Huard leading us into the playoffs.

Your point is relatively null anyway, as Huard's not going to be on the roster in '09 regardless.

[Hootie]

Why cant he? I do know 1 thing from watching this passed season. No qb was goign to be successful under that offensive line.
See...

I saw Thigpen make a lot of quality throws from under center this season...everyone is basing he can't play in the pro style offense because of the Atlanta debacle...but you are right...no QB would have been successful this season in the Herm Edwards R2P2 offense that lacked pass blocking on the entire right side of the line.

I tend to think the spread offense was implemented because it had to be...not because Thigpen couldn't play under center.

I think Thigpen can play under center...I also think the spread offense would be a great tool in our bag...but we need to be able to run the ball in the gold zone...and it doesn't appear as if we're capable of doing that in the spread.

If you watch the Tampa game Thigpen took more snaps under center in the first half then he took out of the spread and he played just fine...Thigpen has the ability to develop into a really good play-action QB, IMO, because the defense has to respect his mobility and contain...Thigpen opened up running lanes for LJ because of the defense's fear of his feet...just like Mike Vick did for Dunn and Duckett all of those years they were averaging over 5 YPC...

Thigpen is the best thing that happened to LJ since Priest Holmes' injury.

And no, I don't want Michael Vick running the show...but I think Thigpen could grow to be someone like McNabb...who still makes plays with his feet without running the ball...the throw to Buckhalter that opened up the Dallas game last week by McNabb was a thing only a handful of QB's could have done...and Thigpen is one of them.