Gunther's finger pointing has already begun...

[DaWolf]

Typical. Would expect nothing less from a guy who loves to blame everyone but himself on his failures...

“I’ve gone through three years of playing zone defense because I was loyal to Herm Edwards,” Cunningham said today in a conference call. “That’s what he wanted. People here in town knew that I was different than that. My idea is to put a lot of pressure on the quarterback — always has been, always will be.”
This after you proclaim that you love Herm Edwards and the Cover 2 has always been a part of your scheme and that the "handcuffs" had been taken off with Herm, all while you were throwing Vermeil under the bus.

I guess Gunther really doesn't have a spine.

“The emotions get involved, ‘Oh, we’ll play with all these young players,’ ” Cunningham said. “But what you don’t understand is, they have to be led by guys like Jared Allen.”


“If you have a lot of young players that you’re going to draft, you have to make sure you work the whole process,” Cunningham said. “I believe the mistake we made here is that they tried to add some UFA players like Demorrio Williams. Well, he doesn’t have enough experience and enough ability to lead a bunch of rookies. …

“I can at least share what happened here and the pitfalls we ran into and see what the process brings.”

Yeah, so the answer I suppose would be signing all those UFA's you had on your list that you gave to Carl and proclaimed that Carl delivered. That Kendrell Bell, helluva leader Gun.

http://www.freep.com/article/20090121/BLOG21/90121072/1048/SPORTS/Cunningham+s+Chiefs+had+lot+in+common+with+Lions

[Gonzo]

Whaaaaaaa



GTFO

[Mr. Laz]

he is such a freakin puzzy

seriously he has been talking shit for years and not backing it up. Every time it doesn't work he cries some sort of excuse.

:shake:

every year is gonna be THE YEAR until he starts whining about how someone else screwed it up.

[KCChiefsMan]

to Gun's defense, I'm sure it would be annoying to work for a couple of Morons, but it was his job and he didn't do it.

[Archie Bunker]

Bye Bye Bitch

[the Talking Can]

Gunther is a fraud and a clown

hiring him was the second worst decision next to hiring that idiot Herm....

what a clusterfuck..we never had a chance

[milkman]

to Gun's defense, I'm sure it would be annoying to work for a couple of Morons, but it was his job and he didn't do it.

When he was the head coach, his defense sucked ass.

I guess he blamed Carl then.

[Reerun_KC]

Who cares? Why are we so desperate for his approval? I could careless if he blames the players, coaches or Franchise.. For the last 3 years they even sucked at Fail.


Bye Gunther, get over it...

[The Franchise]

Well that didn't take long.

[suds79]

This guy should give a portion of each paycheck he continues to receive to the family of Derrick Thomas.

Being a DC sure is a lot easier when you have one of the all time great pass rushers.

I personally believe this guy couldn't, and won't, out-scheme anybody.

[EyePod]

Who cares? Why are we so desperate for his approval? I could careless if he blames the players, coaches or Franchise.. For the last 3 years they are sucked at Fail.


Bye Gunther, get over it...

It's just that about 30 minutes ago someone joked around about how long it will take for Gun to throw Herm under the bus....

[DaWolf]

The funny thing in reading that last quote is that it is exactly what Pioli said in his news conference. I'm Glad Gunther at least took time to learn a tidbit about putting together a team from a real GM, because he sure as heck wasn't sharing those tidbits during his employment here...

[mlyonsd]

Good luck in Detroit....where you actually might meet expectations.

[Reerun_KC]

It's just that about 30 minutes ago someone joked around about how long it will take for Gun to throw Herm under the bus....

I just think its cute that people are so willing to bash Gunter, and yes he warrants bashing, but completely excuses the tampon 2...

[suds79]

I just think its cute that people are so willing to bash Gunter, and yes he warrants bashing, but completely excuses the tampon 2...

I see what your point but who here is liking the Tampa 2?

IMO Gun sucks and Herm and his approach sucks also.

Can't wait until both are gone... 1 down, 1 to go.

[Chiefnj2]

He basically confirmed all of the things that fans have been speculating about for years:

1. Herm insisted on a cover 2 and Gun wasn't a good match for that scheme.
2. The team had no veteran leadership.
3. You don't trade away your best player, especially when it is a pass rushing DE.
4. Gun and Herm are weasels that will push women and children out of their way as they head for the lifeboats.

[Brock]

I just think its cute that people are so willing to bash Gunter, and yes he warrants bashing, but completely excuses the tampon 2...

Oh yeah, everybody here looooves the cover 2 defense.

[Reerun_KC]

I see what your point but who here is liking the Tampa 2?

IMO Gun sucks and Herm and his approach sucks also.

Can't wait until both are gone... 1 down, 1 to go.

Just saying that Gunther was part of the problem and very thankful he is gone, but the problem is deeper than just Gunther as you stated...

[Reerun_KC]

Oh yeah, everybody here looooves the cover 2 defense.

I forgot how much you cherrished it... My appologies for saying anything bad about it...:D

[EyePod]

I just think its cute that people are so willing to bash Gunter, and yes he warrants bashing, but completely excuses the tampon 2...

I never said that the Tampa 2 isn't the problem, but grow some balls and do something about it. We don't have the player personnel on defense to run the Tampa 2. Gun couldn't get Herm to change his mind about using it though. Chan Gailey got it across that we needed to change the offense when it wasn't working, why coudln't Gun?

[Lzen]

He basically confirmed all of the things that fans have been speculating about for years:

1. Herm insisted on a cover 2 and Gun wasn't a good match for that scheme.
2. The team had no veteran leadership.
3. You don't trade away your best player, especially when it is a pass rushing DE.
4. Gun and Herm are weasels that will push women and children out of their way as they head for the lifeboats.

:clap:

[Nero's Neptune]

Gunther is getting a lot of blame...and I'm not saying he's the best defensive coordinator or talent evaluator in the league...but the failures of the Chiefs defense sit at the feet of Herm Edwards.

It's true, Gunther was running Herm's scheme....with the players Herm wanted. Not saying Gunther would have done better had he free reign to pick his players and run his overly aggressive stuff.....but this year is all Herm Edwards, imo.

[Reerun_KC]

He basically confirmed all of the things that fans have been speculating about for years:

1. Herm insisted on a cover 2 and Gun wasn't a good match for that scheme.
2. The team had no veteran leadership.
3. You don't trade away your best player, especially when it is a pass rushing DE.
4. Gun and Herm are weasels that will push women and children out of their way as they head for the lifeboats.

QFT!

I will agree to this and endorse this post....

[Reerun_KC]

I never said that the Tampa 2 isn't the problem, but grow some balls and do something about it. We don't have the player personnel on defense to run the Tampa 2. Gun couldn't get Herm to change his mind about using it though. Chan Gailey got it across that we needed to change the offense when it wasn't working, why coudln't Gun?

:shrug: Both are weak minded is my guess?

[Lzen]

Chan Gailey got it across that we needed to change the offense when it wasn't working, why coudln't Gun?

Just to play Devil's advocate here. Perhaps because Herm knows he is not an offensive guru but thinks he knows a lot about defense. Therefore, Herm wanted to control the defense more. I dunno, just a thought.

[Reerun_KC]

Gunther is getting a lot of blame...and I'm not saying he's the best defensive coordinator or talent evaluator in the league...but the failures of the Chiefs defense sit at the feet of Herm Edwards.

It's true, Gunther was running Herm's scheme....with the players Herm wanted. Not saying Gunther would have done better had he free reign to pick his players and run his overly aggressive stuff.....but this year is all Herm Edwards, imo.

Agree, I was never sold on Gunther in his return.. His players flopped faster than Tyler Handsjob with nobody around him...

[Crush]

**** you Gunther!!! :cuss:


Alas, it does not matter what he says about the Chiefs. All I know is that he is gone and I am happy. Hopefully, Gun will master the "32" Defense in Detroit.

[alpha_omega]

This does make him out to be a whiner (which i believe he is)....but, what he is saying does sound reasonable.

[Reerun_KC]

Just to play Devil's advocate here. Perhaps because Herm knows he is not an offensive guru but thinks he knows a lot about defense. Therefore, Herm wanted to control the defense more. I dunno, just a thought.

Very nice twisted way to look at it?

[DeezNutz]

Petro's comment from earlier today is valid:

The fact that Gunther was hired shows that at least one respected, young HC believes that the defense wasn't Gun's fault, so this puts it on the doorstep of Herm Edwards.

Petro wasn't trying to excuse Gun, and neither am I, but it was an interesting comment.

[Chiefnj2]

QFT!

I will agree to this and endorse this post....

It's that exact scenario that Pioli is trying to avoid.

He wants the GM, coach and coordinators to be on the same page. Carl, Herm, Gun, Solari and Gailey weren't close to being on the same page. They each wanted and had a different approach.

No way does Pioli keep Herm around.

[keg in kc]

The beauty of today is that Gunther is no longer relevant in any way.

[raybec 4]

Well that didn't take long.

I honestly thought Gun would wait a day or two before acting like a four year old, shows how stupid I am.

[DaWolf]

He basically confirmed all of the things that fans have been speculating about for years:

1. Herm insisted on a cover 2 and Gun wasn't a good match for that scheme.
2. The team had no veteran leadership.
3. You don't trade away your best player, especially when it is a pass rushing DE.
4. Gun and Herm are weasels that will push women and children out of their way as they head for the lifeboats.

You just laid out a perfect case as to why Herm has no business being employed by this organization. If he can't put assistants around him that will help him be successful, he is as incompetent as his assistants. Herm had no plan on how to build this team and on how to build a coaching staff...

[Old Dog]

He basically confirmed all of the things that fans have been speculating about for years:

1. Herm insisted on a cover 2 and Gun wasn't a good match for that scheme.
2. The team had no veteran leadership.
3. You don't trade away your best player, especially when it is a pass rushing DE.
4. Gun and Herm are weasels that will push women and children out of their way as they head for the lifeboats.

:clap:

[DaWolf]

Petro's comment from earlier today is valid:

The fact that Gunther was hired shows that at least one respected, young HC believes that the defense wasn't Gun's fault, so this puts it on the doorstep of Herm Edwards.

Petro wasn't trying to excuse Gun, and neither am I, but it was an interesting comment.

So if the defense sucks in Detroit it will be Schwartz's fault and not Gunthers? And to reverse that logic, the fact that our 1990's defenses were good was due to Marty, not Gunther? So to summarize, Petro is arguing that Gunther's job is to collect a paycheck and let the head coach fix the defense...

[EyePod]

Just to play Devil's advocate here. Perhaps because Herm knows he is not an offensive guru but thinks he knows a lot about defense. Therefore, Herm wanted to control the defense more. I dunno, just a thought.

That may be the case, but either way, Herm should leave because he wasn't willing to make adjustments (or see that they needed to be made) on defense. I blame Herm and Gun for this.

[the Talking Can]

You just laid out a perfect case as to why Herm has no business being employed by this organization. If he can't put assistants around him that will help him be successful, he is as incompetent as his assistants. Herm had no plan on how to build this team and on how to build a coaching staff...

bingo X 1000

[Rooster]

I would be throwing these clowns under the bus too. He was in a no win situation.

[RINGLEADER]

he is such a freakin puzzy

seriously he has been talking shit for years and not backing it up. Every time it doesn't work he cries some sort of excuse.

:shake:

every year is gonna be THE YEAR until he starts whining about how someone else screwed it up.

I second that sentiment.

He's a weak coach.

So glad he's gone -- about three years too late but whatever.

[eazyb81]

Gunther Cunningham can go fuck himself.

He's the most worthless and overrated member of the 90's Chiefs franchise.

[EyePod]

So if the defense sucks in Detroit it will be Schwartz's fault and not Gunthers? And to reverse that logic, the fact that our 1990's defenses were good was due to Marty, not Gunther? So to summarize, Petro is arguing that Gunther's job is to collect a paycheck and let the head coach fix the defense...

Quality burning right there.

[RINGLEADER]

So if the defense sucks in Detroit it will be Schwartz's fault and not Gunthers? And to reverse that logic, the fact that our 1990's defenses were good was due to Marty, not Gunther? So to summarize, Petro is arguing that Gunther's job is to collect a paycheck and let the head coach fix the defense...

Exactly.

Take the credit when things go well and blame everyone else when it goes bad.

Gunther showed his real understanding of the world when he complained about the Bears running a college defense in his first game in Chicago rather than making an adjustment that would limit their ability to keep running the same play.

RUN THE BALL AND PLAY DEFENSE! RUN THE BALL AND PLAY DEFENSE!

[EyePod]

I would be throwing these clowns under the bus too. He was in a no win situation.

Doesn't mean that he isn't terrible though.

[Kylo Ren]

Typical. Would expect nothing less from a guy who loves to blame everyone but himself on his failures...


This after you proclaim that you love Herm Edwards and the Cover 2 has always been a part of your scheme and that the "handcuffs" had been taken off with Herm, all while you were throwing Vermeil under the bus.

I guess Gunther really doesn't have a spine.






Yeah, so the answer I suppose would be signing all those UFA's you had on your list that you gave to Carl and proclaimed that Carl delivered. That Kendrell Bell, helluva leader Gun.

http://www.freep.com/article/20090121/BLOG21/90121072/1048/SPORTS/Cunningham+s+Chiefs+had+lot+in+common+with+Lions


I agree with Gunther. I always suspected that the cover 2 was not his defense and he was trying to make lemonade out of crappy lemons. Gunther has some blame, but less than 50%. I'd put more than 50% on Herm. I think Gun, if he chose his own players and scheme, would have been more sucessful with the Chiefs.

[kc rush]

It's that exact scenario that Pioli is trying to avoid.

He wants the GM, coach and coordinators to be on the same page. Carl, Herm, Gun, Solari and Gailey weren't close to being on the same page. They each wanted and had a different approach.

No way does Pioli keep Herm around.

Great post. I agree with this and can't wait for Herm to be shown the door. It will be interesting to hear who Herm throws under the bus once he is gone.

[RINGLEADER]

I would be throwing these clowns under the bus too. He was in a no win situation.

If he was so opposed to the defensive scheme he wouldn't have made all those comments about getting better after Vermeil left.

Track Jared Allen's ascension with the overall performance of the team. Throw in his departure. See a correlation?

He wasn't in a no-win situation. He didn't need to stay with the Chiefs when Herm informed him of the kind of defense he wanted to run.

[smittysbar]

I miss him already.

[Archie Bunker]

I agree with Gunther. I always suspected that the cover 2 was not his defense and he was trying to make lemonade out of crappy lemons. Gunther has some blame, but less than 50%. I'd put more than 50% on Herm. I think Gun, if he chose his own players and scheme, would have been more sucessful with the Chiefs.

He had the chance to pick his players and we ended up with shit. If he didn't want to run the Cover 2 he could have grown a spine and left with DV.

Fuck Gunther.

[EyePod]

I miss him already.

I know. Who are we going to make fun of. We only have Herm left! Damnit Carl and Damnit Gun! Why'd you have to make us lose the butts of all of our jokes?!?!?!

[booger]

All it proves is what we have wondered for so long. He was given to big of a voice from Carl. You take Carl, who thinks he is a "football man" but isn't and only hire coaches he can play puppet with. Gun Has always had trouble just doing his job and not going overboard. It's what got him fired as HC. He didn't trust anyone to deligate responsibilities and he was never wrong. Tim Grunhard said at that time it was always me me me out of Gun's mouth.

That's why when he came back from the titans he said he was bored with just being a LB coach there.

I hope Schwartz has a shock collar and extra batteries for the remote because he sure will need them. He better get Marty on speed dial if he wants to learn how to control that fools ego.

All that says or proves is that Carl and Herm have no business trying to manage a coaching staff, which is part of the job of the GM and HC.

Looks like Pioli has his mind made up on the D anyway. Gun and Gibbs are gone. Only krumrie, Michael Ketchum( a DA who was a Grad Ass. under Ferentz) and Daron Roberts(low level DA/quality control) remain. With Gun leaving the LB coach leaves as well.

It will be interesting what happens with Gailey and the O next. He brought in D'Allesandres and Modkins from GTech for their first NFL coaching jobs. Bicknell and Curl had college and only NFL europe exp. from the pro level. Price and Embree only have their pro experience under Herm as well. So you could say Gailey is the only guy who other teams actually "know" about without talking with Herm.

So special teams and D are done(krumrie probably goes anytime now) and let's see what happens on O. If that's the way it is I bet they are letting Herm sit around to stew to see if he resigns, which is doubtful

[Chiefnj2]

He had the chance to pick his players and we ended up with shit. If he didn't want to run the Cover 2 he could have grown a spine and left with DV.

**** Gunther.

Gunther never had any conviction. He went back to the team with the GM that fired him over the internet.

I hope he keeps talking and gives tidbits up of what went wrong with the Chiefs. It's nice to know that the fans were correct about a lot of their observations and guesses the past three years.

[Rooster]

Doesn't mean that he isn't terrible though.

This is true.

[Bowser]

The new regime can't start fast enough.

[booger]

That old crazy bastard Al Davis knew what he was doing demoting that egomaniac to DLcoach before he first came here.

[Rooster]

He wasn't in a no-win situation. He didn't need to stay with the Chiefs when Herm informed him of the kind of defense he wanted to run.

Do you have a job?

[HemiEd]

It's just that about 30 minutes ago someone joked around about how long it will take for Gun to throw Herm under the bus....

I have been one of the most critical, when it comes to Gunther.

But I have to agree with him on this. Herm insisted on his defense, the cover 2, which has been said to be obsolete.

Also, I can't blame him for being a little ticked at losing the only impact player this defense has had, in quite a while.

That being said, I am so glad he is gone!

[milkman]

I have been one of the most critical, when it comes to Gunther.

But I have to agree with him on this. Herm insisted on his defense, the cover 2, which has been said to be obsolete.

Also, I can't blame him for being a little ticked at losing the only impact player this defense has had, in quite a while.

That being said, I am so glad he is gone!

I understand the sentiment that he was handcuffed by being forced to run a cover two.

But I also saw how well Ron Rivera adapted to the cover two for the Bears, after working for Jim Johnson in Philly, and how he got improved results from the Charger defense after replacing Ted Cottrell mid season in San Diego.

An actual coach can coach, regardless of scheme.

A bad coach makes excuses and points fingers.

[CoMoChief]

What he's saying is true. Our defense the last year JA was here was the best defense we've had since like 2001.

[Archie Bunker]

I understand the sentiment that he was handcuffed by being forced to run a cover two.

But I also saw how well Ron Rivera adapted to the cover two for the Bears, after working for Jim Johnson in Philly, and how he got improved results from the Charger defense after replacing Ted Cottrell mid season in San Diego.

An actual coach can coach, regardless of scheme.

A bad coach makes excuses and points fingers.

:bravo:
That's reptastic.

[Reerun_KC]

A bad coach makes excuses and points fingers.

You talking about Herm or Gunther?

They were perfect for each other...

[SenselessChiefsFan]

The reality is that Gunther is a team guy, a loyal guy. He is now free to answer things honestly.

It would be hard to sell the players on Herm's defense if he is publicly bashing it.

Herm and Gunther like each other, they just have different opinions. The defense was a little bit of both of their styles and in the end, it had no identity and it failed.

[HemiEd]

I understand the sentiment that he was handcuffed by being forced to run a cover two.

But I also saw how well Ron Rivera adapted to the cover two for the Bears, after working for Jim Johnson in Philly, and how he got improved results from the Charger defense after replacing Ted Cottrell mid season in San Diego.

An actual coach can coach, regardless of scheme.

A bad coach makes excuses and points fingers.

I can't argue with any of that. I grew weary of Gunther the first time around, more so when he was made HC.

Lots of empty promises, one after another. His coaching style (yelling obcentities) has gotten old as well.

But adding Herm to the mix, just made the thing worse.

Too bad Carl didn't leave a year earlier, Jared Allen may still be a Chief.

But that is all behind us now, thankfully, and there is a lot to look forward to.

[Red Dawg]

Gun knows defense but he has to have premium talent to run his style of defense.

We need a DC that can teach because Gun can't apparently. Our defense was just as bad at the end of the year as it was at the start. That means the staff taught our guys nothing.

[Amnorix]

Viewing this from 1,500 miles away, I'm trying to think of the last time the Chiefs had good talent on defense to work with. Other than Jared Allen, I'm thinking the cupboard has been pretty bare since those Derrick Thomas teams.

I could give a rat's ass about Gunther either way, but I'd think you'd need more than one guy to run an effective defense. In fact, I know you need more than one guy, becuase I've seen how being one or two guys short in key positions undermines the entire defnese, even for a guy like Belichick.

[Christofire]

I don't think the Tampa Two is obsolete ... but it does requires getting all of your pressure from the front four. That lets your CBs jump routes and attack the receivers, because they konw they have safeties behind them to make the play. If you don't have a talented front four (like we didn't last year), it's just like any zone and there's plenty of time for the QB to find holes. If Herm stays, we have no choice BUT to draft more defensive linemen. It's the only way the scheme works.

Previously, I've been willing to give Herm a fourth year, but his coaching hires are much more damning to me than his in-game coaching. He kept an aggressive d-coordinator whose heart wasn't in the Tampa Two out of loyalty, instead of bringing in a guy who drinks the Tampa Two Kool-aid and would be excited to run it. He gave Mike Solari a chance because he thought he deserved it, instead of finding a guy he knew could run his offense. The only major coaching hire he's done right is bringing in Gailey to give us some life. It just shows how organizationally screwed up we've been over the past five years, and makes the hire of an outside all the more important.

[booger]

Pioli is playing this pretty good though. While going through evaluations he can at least get the coaches side of what they were asking the players to do, in their own words. He can piece that together with what he sees on film while evaluating the players.

While this goes on he realizes they sure don't work well together stabbing each other in the back on the way out. In the end that all points back to the HC. It would tell Clark that he has had him fooled all along, assuming Clark still wants Herm to return which i'm not so sure of.

[CoMoChief]

Gun knows defense but he has to have premium talent to run his style of defense.

We need a DC that can teach because Gun can't apparently. Our defense was just as bad at the end of the year as it was at the start. That means the staff taught our guys nothing.

Name one defense that doesn't have to have premium talent to be good

Im really ****in sick n tired of hearing this over and over and over again.
"Gun has to have probowlers to run his type of scheme blah blah blah"
Thats the most retarded shit I've ever heard.


ON OFFENSE: YOU NEED GOOD PLAYERS TO BE SUCESSFUL
ON DEFENSE: YOU NEED GOOD PLAYERS TO BE SUCESSFUL

The last good player we had one defense since JA was DT, and we traded JA away, great move there. That couldnt have blown up in our faces anymore than it did as we set the record for fewest sacks in NFL history as JA outsacked the entire ****in team, had more safeties, prob had just around the amount of same neg yard plays. The only good thing about the defense last season was the development of the young secondary. THATS IT.

The reason why our offense was so good under DV AS is because he had one of the best OLines in recent memory in the NFL, 4/5 players on the starting Oline were Pro Bowlers. If you have a good Oline, you can have a good offense with a couple playmakers here and there.

[Chiefnj2]

Viewing this from 1,500 miles away, I'm trying to think of the last time the Chiefs had good talent on defense to work with. Other than Jared Allen, I'm thinking the cupboard has been pretty bare since those Derrick Thomas teams.

I could give a rat's ass about Gunther either way, but I'd think you'd need more than one guy to run an effective defense. In fact, I know you need more than one guy, becuase I've seen how being one or two guys short in key positions undermines the entire defnese, even for a guy like Belichick.

Part of the lack of talent was Gunther's fault. Back in year 2 of Gun under Vermeil, Gunther listed the players he wanted and he got them - Bell, Hall, Surtain, etc.

[Chiefnj2]

Name one defense that doesn't have to have premium talent to be good

Im really ****in sick n tired of hearing this over and over and over again.

ON OFFENSE: YOU NEED GOOD PLAYERS TO BE SUCESSFUL
ON DEFENSE: YOU NEED GOOD PLAYERS TO BE SUCESSFUL

Do you think the Cardinals defense is really good? If they hadn't made it through the wildcard game would you honestly think they had a lot of talent?

[FringeNC]

He basically confirmed all of the things that fans have been speculating about for years:

1. Herm insisted on a cover 2 and Gun wasn't a good match for that scheme.
2. The team had no veteran leadership.
3. You don't trade away your best player, especially when it is a pass rushing DE.
4. Gun and Herm are weasels that will push women and children out of their way as they head for the lifeboats.

Rep.

[HemiEd]

Pioli is playing this pretty good though. While going through evaluations he can at least get the coaches side of what they were asking the players to do, in their own words. He can piece that together with what he sees on film while evaluating the players.

While this goes on he realizes they sure don't work well together stabbing each other in the back on the way out. In the end that all points back to the HC. It would tell Clark that he has had him fooled all along, assuming Clark still wants Herm to return which i'm not so sure of.

Good point, Herm has set an example of back stabbing and throwing others under the bus.
It had to happen, once Herm started deflecting the blame, others were going to do the same. But of course, Gunther has always done it.
Accountability left with DV.

[DaWolf]

Name one defense that doesn't have to have premium talent to be good

Im really ****in sick n tired of hearing this over and over and over again.
"Gun has to have probowlers to run his type of scheme blah blah blah"
Thats the most retarded shit I've ever heard.


ON OFFENSE: YOU NEED GOOD PLAYERS TO BE SUCESSFUL
ON DEFENSE: YOU NEED GOOD PLAYERS TO BE SUCESSFUL

The last good player we had one defense since JA was DT, and we traded JA away, great move there. That couldnt have blown up in our faces anymore than it did as we set the record for fewest sacks in NFL history as JA outsacked the entire ****in team, had more safeties, prob had just around the amount of same neg yard plays. The only good thing about the defense last season was the development of the young secondary. THATS IT.

The reason why our offense was so good under DV AS is because he had one of the best OLines in recent memory in the NFL, 4/5 players on the starting Oline were Pro Bowlers. If you have a good Oline, you can have a good offense with a couple playmakers here and there.

That's a fine line. Everyone in the NFL has talent. That's why "on any given sunday" holds true, unless you're the Detroit Lions. The key is to put your talent in a position to be successful, or bring in talent that will help you be successful. Gunther was unable to do either. He had five years of drafts where he was unable to develop anyone of note. In fact, one prime example is Kawika Mitchell, who blossomed once he got away from Gunther. I wouldn't be surprised to see DJ become an all pro now that Gunther is gone. In terms of bringing in talent, it was famously proclaimed by Gunther himself that he personally went to Carl Peterson and gave him a list of players to go get him and Carl delivered on what he wanted. He promised that Kendrell Bell and Sammy Knight and co would turn this defense around, provide the leadership, etc. We still sucked. So to me, across the board, under two totally different head coaches, with two different assistant coaching staffs under him, he failed, and failed spectacularly...

[Rooster]

The last good player we had one defense since JA was DT, and we traded JA away, great move there.

JA didn't want to be in KC. Why is that so hard for some to understand? He didn't like it here. Period. He played his card and the Chiefs then played theirs. Get over it.

[FringeNC]

Gunther Cunningham is a disgrace. He ran HIS defense in 2004 upon his return, and it was a complete disaster. Far worse than Robinson's 2003 unit. The next year, I do think Vermeil took away some of his power, because it was more of a basic defense in 2005, and not quite as bad.

Anytime one of Gunther's defense sucks, it's always someone else's fault.

[lazepoo]

I'm not surprised. That said, I don't think that Gunther's scheme is bad... he's just not a good judge of talent and a poor motivator. If your only move is to drop 4 f bombs per second in order to get a guy moving, not everyone responds well to it. I don't think he's very realistic about the talent of the guys he has, either. A lot of players in his defenses are playing out of position or utilized poorly. Apparently he made an impression on Schwartz, though.

One positive that everyone's overlooked here is that had we hired Schwartz, Gunther probably would have stuck around. He's moved on, and so should we.

[The Franchise]

That's a fine line. Everyone in the NFL has talent. That's why "on any given sunday" holds true, unless you're the Detroit Lions. The key is to put your talent in a position to be successful, or bring in talent that will help you be successful. Gunther was unable to do either. He had five years of drafts where he was unable to develop anyone of note. In fact, one prime example is Kawika Mitchell, who blossomed once he got away from Gunther. I wouldn't be surprised to see DJ become an all pro now that Gunther is gone. In terms of bringing in talent, it was famously proclaimed by Gunther himself that he personally went to Carl Peterson and gave him a list of players to go get him and Carl delivered on what he wanted. He promised that Kendrell Bell and Sammy Knight and co would turn this defense around, provide the leadership, etc. We still sucked. So to me, across the board, under two totally different head coaches, with two different assistant coaching staffs under him, he failed, and failed spectacularly...

This.

[Rooster]

That's a fine line. Everyone in the NFL has talent. That's why "on any given sunday" holds true, unless you're the Detroit Lions. The key is to put your talent in a position to be successful, or bring in talent that will help you be successful. Gunther was unable to do either. He had five years of drafts where he was unable to develop anyone of note. In fact, one prime example is Kawika Mitchell, who blossomed once he got away from Gunther. I wouldn't be surprised to see DJ become an all pro now that Gunther is gone. In terms of bringing in talent, it was famously proclaimed by Gunther himself that he personally went to Carl Peterson and gave him a list of players to go get him and Carl delivered on what he wanted. He promised that Kendrell Bell and Sammy Knight and co would turn this defense around, provide the leadership, etc. We still sucked. So to me, across the board, under two totally different head coaches, with two different assistant coaching staffs under him, he failed, and failed spectacularly...


Word :clap:

[wutamess]

Gunther is SUCH a fraud for totally changing his scheme to something he wasn't comfortable with. :rolleyes: GTFOH.

We all know/knew Gun loves crushing the QB for you homers to think otherwise because he's saying what really went down is just plain stupid. [/Gaz]

[EyePod]

I have been one of the most critical, when it comes to Gunther.

But I have to agree with him on this. Herm insisted on his defense, the cover 2, which has been said to be obsolete.

Also, I can't blame him for being a little ticked at losing the only impact player this defense has had, in quite a while.

That being said, I am so glad he is gone!

He wasn't that good when we had JA so I don't feel bad for him at all.

Here's what it said the expectations for Gun when he came in (from Wiki):

"Cunningham was hired again to revitalize a defense that had finished near or at the bottom of the overall rankings since Schottenheimer and Cunningham departed."

He didn't do that. Gun's a bust.

[CoMoChief]

Do you think the Cardinals defense is really good? If they hadn't made it through the wildcard game would you honestly think they had a lot of talent?

They have better players in certain areas than we have

Berry and Dockett are better than anyone we have on our Dline. PERIOD

Dansby is better than any LB that we have

Their CB's are getting better and better, drafting in the 1st rd for DRC and Rolle have helped them and Adrian Wilson is a top 3 safety in the NFL



WE HAVE NO PLAYERS AT ALL OF THIS TALENT LEVEL, maybe DJ or Flowers

Fuck I dunno

[CoMoChief]

JA didn't want to be in KC. Why is that so hard for some to understand? He didn't like it here. Period. He played his card and the Chiefs then played theirs. Get over it.

JA loved KC (probably why he wanted to open a bar here) wanted to be in KC and get paid as well, Carl made a promise to him, Jared Allen did what was asked of him, and then Carl ****ed him over. Then Jared wanted out.


Why people dont understand this is beyond me

[The Franchise]

They have better players in certain areas than we have

Berry and Dockett are better than anyone we have on our Dline. PERIOD

Dansby is better than any LB that we have

Their CB's are getting better and better, drafting in the 1st rd for DRC and Rolle have helped them and Adrian Wilson is a top 3 safety in the NFL



WE HAVE NO PLAYERS AT ALL OF THIS TALENT LEVEL, maybe DJ or Flowers

Fuck I dunno

I believe that Rolle is their FS......so that gives them a damn good set of safeties to work with.

That does happen when you're picking Top 10 for a long time though.

[Frazod]

Another Frank Burns - if the patient dies, it's either God's will or somebody else's fault.

Those poor bastards in Detroit - all that suffering, and no end in sight. At least they have good basketball and hockey teams.

[HemiEd]

Those poor bastards in Detroit - all that suffering, and no end in sight. At least they have good basketball and hockey teams.

Don't forget, Detroit, and a lot of Michigan are dependent on the auto industry.

They didn't deserve to have Gunther put on them.

[StcChief]

as DaBears,Packers,ViQueens all rejoice....

[Mr. Laz]

Gun has sucked under far too many coaches and with far too many different players to not be consider a "common dominator" in this whole cluster fuck.


not to mention the fact that he couldn't ever field a defense that could handle the bootleg, disguise a blitz or "would try" to tackle correctly ..... these are COACHING ISSUES.

talent versus premium talent is always a problem but you can see problems beyond that

[jettio]

I would much prefer a defensive cooordinator that teaches his players how to play basic defense and tackle the ball.

Gunther's problem is that he stays up night after night during the season trying to figure out some magical way of calling some wonderful defensive play.

Football is pretty plain and simple. I rather the Chiefs find coaches that can figure out how to coach a team working a 60 hour work week during the season.

If you have a coach that spends 80-100 hours a week during the season trying to think up stupid sh*t, you have an ineffective coach. That is what Gunther is, IMO.

[EyePod]

Do you think the Cardinals defense is really good? If they hadn't made it through the wildcard game would you honestly think they had a lot of talent?

Yes. I try not to be ignorant of other teams. That team has some really awesome fucking players.

[EyePod]

Don't forget, Detroit, and a lot of Michigan are dependent on the auto industry.

They didn't deserve to have Gunther put on them.

That's their own fault. Move somewhere else. Are you telling me that they can't just move overseas where there are tons of these autoplants?

[EyePod]

I believe that Rolle is their FS......so that gives them a damn good set of safeties to work with.

That does happen when you're picking Top 10 for a long time though.

Rod Hood is the other one I believe. And their other Safety (Francisco) is pretty good too. Oh, and Ralph Brown is another CB. He's a solid veteran backup.

[EyePod]

They have better players in certain areas than we have

Berry and Dockett are better than anyone we have on our Dline. PERIOD

Dansby is better than any LB that we have

Their CB's are getting better and better, drafting in the 1st rd for DRC and Rolle have helped them and Adrian Wilson is a top 3 safety in the NFL



WE HAVE NO PLAYERS AT ALL OF THIS TALENT LEVEL, maybe DJ or Flowers

**** I dunno

LaBoy is also really good, he's just hurt. And dirty looking.

[EyePod]

JA loved KC (probably why he wanted to open a bar here) wanted to be in KC and get paid as well, Carl made a promise to him, Jared Allen did what was asked of him, and then Carl ****ed him over. Then Jared wanted out.


Why people dont understand this is beyond me

I thought he made the promise before the last DUI, or is that just me brain farting...

[blueballs]

Hold the phone
Is it fact or fiction
Herm called Gun to be DC in NY

[EyePod]

Hold the phone
Is it fact or fiction
Herm called Gun to be DC in NY

I never heard that. I dunno.

[FringeNC]

Hold the phone
Is it fact or fiction
Herm called Gun to be DC in NY

That's true, I believe. Carl probably offered more money, though.

[EyePod]

Hold the phone
Is it fact or fiction
Herm called Gun to be DC in NY

Here you go, from January 16, 2004, right after his extension in NY:


Edwards is interviewing candidates to replace Cottrell. Titans linebackers coach Gunther Cunningham interviewed Wednesday and former Nebraska interim coach Bo Pelini interviewed Thursday.

http://www.sptimes.com/2004/01/16/Sports/Edwards_gets_two_year.shtml

[teedubya]

Don't save your Chiefs gear this time, Gun. You are done... give that shit to charity. Fuck you.

[smittysbar]

Yes. I try not to be ignorant of other teams. That team has some really awesome fucking players.

That's their own fault. Move somewhere else. Are you telling me that they can't just move overseas where there are tons of these autoplants?

Rod Hood is the other one I believe. And their other Safety (Francisco) is pretty good too. Oh, and Ralph Brown is another CB. He's a solid veteran backup.

LaBoy is also really good, he's just hurt. And dirty looking.

I thought he made the promise before the last DUI, or is that just me brain farting...

Multi-Quote is your friend, don't be afraid to us it. :)

[Fritz88]

Our D sucked so bad last year.
Who was our DC?
It was you Gunth.

[EyePod]

Multi-Quote is your friend, don't be afraid to us it. :)

lol. Well, I read through each one and then reply.... :-P My posting skills are low on my to-do list. Sorry.

[Fritz88]

I feel bad for the Lions' fans.

[HemiEd]

That's their own fault. Move somewhere else. Are you telling me that they can't just move overseas where there are tons of these autoplants?

ROFL

[RINGLEADER]

JA loved KC (probably why he wanted to open a bar here) wanted to be in KC and get paid as well, Carl made a promise to him, Jared Allen did what was asked of him, and then Carl ****ed him over. Then Jared wanted out.

Why people dont understand this is beyond me

Jared did get suspended and had a bout with the law if I'm not mistaken. But I generally agree with your point.

[alanm]

I just think its cute that people are so willing to bash Gunter, and yes he warrants bashing, but completely excuses the tampon 2...I believe Gun didn't want any part of it. But had it forced on him. I suppose he did the best he could but couldn't make it work with the guys we had.
That said he still shouldn't of thrown Herm under the bus even though Herm should of been steamrolled long ago.

[Extra Point]

to Gun's defense, I'm sure it would be annoying to work for a couple of Morons, but it was his job and he didn't do it.
This.

[Frazod]

I feel bad for the Lions' fans.

I do, too. It's like going from Gomer Pyle to Goober Pyle.

[Spicy McHaggis]

But I also saw how well Ron Rivera adapted to the cover two for the Bears, after working for Jim Johnson in Philly, and how he got improved results from the Charger defense after replacing Ted Cottrell mid season in San Diego.

This is the best thing I've read today. Well put sir. Also, since Rivera has left, "cover 2" has become a dirty phrase in Chicago.

[CrazyPhuD]

GUN for HC!!!!! ROFL

[chiefzilla1501]

JA didn't want to be in KC. Why is that so hard for some to understand? He didn't like it here. Period. He played his card and the Chiefs then played theirs. Get over it.

You couldn't be more wrong.

Jared Allen left because of money and because of an abrasive GM who was making insulting offers and even stooped to the point of calling Allen an "at risk" player in a public press conference to lower Allen's stock.

I don't know why people act like Allen didn't want to be in KC. If anything, he had too much fun in Kansas City (as we all know). He was great to his teammates, great to his fans, and he even opened a restaurant there.

Plain and simple: if Allen got offered a good contract, he would have stayed in Kansas City.

[chiefzilla1501]

Gunther Cunningham is a disgrace. He ran HIS defense in 2004 upon his return, and it was a complete disaster. Far worse than Robinson's 2003 unit. The next year, I do think Vermeil took away some of his power, because it was more of a basic defense in 2005, and not quite as bad.

Anytime one of Gunther's defense sucks, it's always someone else's fault.

So far he has blamed:
1) Being in the booth instead of the sidelines
2) Not having the right players (in 2004)
3) Being restrained by an offensive coach who scored too many points too quick
4) Not having his assistant coaches
5) His crappy LBs coach (nevermind that Gun was much worse than Blackmon)
6) Herm Edwards' zone defense
7) Not having veteran free agent leadership.
Never once have I ever heard Gun say that he failed in any way whatsoever. Does he ever bring up his ridiculous wish list in 2005? No. Does he mention that his LBs got WORSE under his watch in 2008 when he fired Blackmon to directly coach LBs? No. Does he mention that he blitzed plenty of times the last few years and still failed to get pressure? No.

Chan Gailey walked into KC with the worst ranked offense in the NFL. He created a new offense out of thin air to match his players' strengths. While Gailey was not perfect, he at least got solid production out of a crappy situation. Gailey doesn't make excuses. Gailey exposed Gun for the fraud that he is.

[TimeForWasp]

The reality is that Gunther is a team guy, a loyal guy. He is now free to answer things honestly.

It would be hard to sell the players on Herm's defense if he is publicly bashing it.

Herm and Gunther like each other, they just have different opinions. The defense was a little bit of both of their styles and in the end, it had no identity and it failed.

plus you are all throwing Gun under the bus. We Know gun. We know what kind of a defense He can run. Herm came in and totally ruined this team. He took the no 1 offence and made it a piece of shit . Saying we scored too fast ( WTF) said the defense gets tired. I don't get it. If there is one coach in this bunch that we all should know , it's Gun. Don't shit on Gun. Jerks

[whoman69]

Gunther is the type of coach that when things are running on all cylinders, his teams are very tough. But when the wheels start coming off he has no idea what to do. I think a coach needs to know what his limits are. He had no idea how to run the Tampa 2 and should have said so. The coach will either fire you or tell you to run what's comfortable. Gunther in this scheme was like Martz in SF.

[chiefzilla1501]

Gunther is the type of coach that when things are running on all cylinders, his teams are very tough. But when the wheels start coming off he has no idea what to do. I think a coach needs to know what his limits are. He had no idea how to run the Tampa 2 and should have said so. The coach will either fire you or tell you to run what's comfortable. Gunther in this scheme was like Martz in SF.

I have seen nothing from Gunther that indicates that he knows how to coach a defense without Marty Schottenheimer looking over his shoulder.

I'm sorry, but in the two years he coached under Vermeil, we saw what he was capable of. His blitzes were predictable, his players were poorly coached on fundamentals and kept missing tackles, he had his corners playing 10-15 yards off the ball on almost every play for lord knows what reason. And in his 5 years, he has not developed young players like Derrick Johnson.

Gunther piggybacked off Marty. How do I know this? Because Marty Schottenheimer's defenses have been awesome everywhere he has gone.

[tk13]

It's a fitting end to Gunther's reign here. He presided with an offensive head coach, defensive head coach, was allowed to blitz all day, then played back in Cover 2. Pretty much covered every extreme, young players, veteran FA's that he wanted.... under two head coaches who've had a lot more success when he wasn't calling the defense.

And it was never his fault. And instead of working with his head coach to try and make something work like Gailey did, he just came up with a bunch of excuses.

[blueballs]

I have doubts Pioli would be GM
if Jared Allen's contract was on the books

[EyePod]

ROFL

Good, I was worried that people would take that statement seriously....

[EyePod]

It's a fitting end to Gunther's reign here. He presided with an offensive head coach, defensive head coach, was allowed to blitz all day, then played back in Cover 2. Pretty much covered every extreme, young players, veteran FA's that he wanted.... under two head coaches who've had a lot more success when he wasn't calling the defense.

And it was never his fault. And instead of working with his head coach to try and make something work like Gailey did, he just came up with a bunch of excuses.

That's what we're used to with him, so I'm not surprised.

[FringeNC]

Gun must bring something to the table or Schwartz wouldn't have hired him. I'm guessing that Schwartz is going to effectively be DC in Detroit, and Gun is going to be the bad cop. It's quite obvious that Gun can't coordinate a defense himself.

Gun does deserve our thanks, though. It was him more than anyone this year who contributed to the gutting of 1 Arrowhead. Gailey almost singlehandedly prevented it.

[BigRedChief]

uhhh how can you say you were loyal but throw the coach under the bus at the same time?

[Fish]

uhhh how can you say you were loyal but throw the coach under the bus at the same time?

Exactly. Gun is trying to have it both ways. He's using it as an excuse for why the D sucked, and still trying to make the point "See, I'm loyal to the head coach." He threw out the line "My defenses get after the QB. Always have, always will."... but forgot to add "Except when the head coach tells me to do something different. Then I do what he says so I can keep my job."

[HemiEd]

Like I said earlier, Gun was following the example that Herm set. I am so glad all of these fuckers are going to be gone. What a waste of three years, the Herm fucking Edwards era.

[Hammock Parties]

Like I said earlier, Gun was following the example that Herm set. I am so glad all of these fuckers are going to be gone. What a waste of three years, the Herm fucking Edwards era.

Can you imagine running a team where the defensive coordinator and the head coach don't agree fundamentally on the fucking defensive scheme and the GM's ego prevents them from keeping their best defender?

JFC.