Pioli/NE Roster Trends

[Wilson8]

I'm looking at the New England roster to see trends or indicators of what Scott Pioli might do with the Kansas City roster. The draft count total goes back to 1997 when Pioli was with the Jets. You have to be careful though in jumping to conclusions for Scott Pioli trends. What New England did may have been driven by Bill Belichick or it may have been because of the need at that point of time. Despite that, I tried to generate a conclusion anyway.

[Wilson8]

Offense

One center ever drafted, Dubuque, IA boy Dan Koppen, 5th rd 2003. Dan started in 1st season in 2003 and continues to anchor the NE line. Damien Woody drafted, prior to Pioli in 1999 was the center prior to Dan.

Conclusion – Pioli has always had a good center so not sure if he would draft higher or sign a free agent.

Nine guards drafted, Logan Mankin in 1st rd in 2005 pairs with Stephen Neal for the guard tandem. Neal, a 2 time NCAA wrestling champion, was a college free agent in 2001 for the Patriots. Russ Hochestein a 2003 free agent from Tampa Bay has been a spot starter.
Ten tackles drafted , Matt Light, 2nd rd in 2001 and Nick Kazur 3rd rd in 2005 are the current starters. Ryan O’Callaghan 5th rd pick from 2006 has been a part time starter when needed. In 2001 when New England won the Super Bowl, many of their line like Damien Woody, Mike Compton, Joe Andruzzi, and Greg Robinson-Randall were on New England’s roster prior to Pioli.

Conclusion – Pioli will mainly use draft picks to build the offensive line with a possible free agent or two to strengthen the line.

Six quarterbacks drafted with the highest drafted, QB is Kevin O’Connell 3rd rd in 2008. Pioli has drafted 3 QBs in the 6th rd. Drew Bledsoe was a 1st rd draft pick from 1993 that was the starter prior to Tom Brady, 6th rd 2000.

Conclusion - Pioli’s trend of drafting QBs in lower rounds was only because they already had a franchise starting QB already in place. Having a good starting QB allows the luxury of drafting late round selections for that position.

Four fullbacks drafted with one in 6th, two in the 7th, and the one in 4th, Garrett Mills was used as a TE. Free agents like Sammy Morris or Heath Evans have been used when a fullback needed to start.

Conclusion - A fullback has not been an important position in the past few years for New England so they have not given that a high priority .

Nine tight ends drafted, 10 if you count Mills, with two 1st rd picks, Daniel Graham 2002 and Ben Watson 2004. Also add 2006 3rd rd pick David Thomas to show New England’s interest in this position.

Conclusion - There seems to be high interest in the TE position if you look at the draft count numbers and the rounds picked.

Six running backs drafted with Lawrence Maroney 1st rd in 2006 being a starter. Corey Dillon was the RB prior to Maroney and he was acquired through trade with the Bengals in 2004. Prior to Dillon, NE drafted J.R. Redmond and used Kevin Faulk and Antowain Smith.

Conclusion – They’ve used free agents and a 1st round draft pick for the position but only drafting 6 running back does not indicate a driving need to improve the position.

Eight wide receivers drafted, but never picked WR in 1st rd. Deion Branch in 2nd rd in 2002 would be one of the best picks. This is one position where they’ve filled outside the draft. Randy Moss was acquired from Oakland in a 2007 trade. Wes Welker came from Miami in a 2007 trade. Jabar Gaffney was a 2006 free agent from Houston. WRs from prior years would be Dante Stallworth, 2007 free agent from Philadelphia, Kelly Washington, 2007 free agent from the Bengals, and Chad Jackson 2nd rd pick from 2006.

Two kickers drafted with Steven Gostkowski in the 4th rd in 2006 being the current starter. Gostkowski was drafted after Adam Vinatieri left as a free agent.

Conclusion – Pioli is not afraid of using a mid-round draft pick on a kicker when he needs.

[Wilson8]

Defense

Twenty defensive backs drafted with some of the best being Asante Samuel, 4th rd 2003, Ellis Hobbs, 3rd rd 2005, Eugene Wilson, 2nd rd 2003, and Brandon Meriweather, 1st rd 2007. The Patriots also have free agents Rodney Harrison, 2003 San Diego, Fernando Bryant 2008, Jason Webster 2008, and Tank Williams 2008.

Conclusion – Piloli has invested in the DB position with many draft picks and inexpensive free agents but when DBs get too expensive like Ty Law, Lawyer Milloy, or Asante Samuel, he will let them walk.

Fifteen linebackers drafted with 9 from the 6th and 7th rd and 3 from the 5thrd. Jarod Mayo from the 1st rd in 2008 would be one of the best. Until last year Pioli had never drafted an LB in the 1st rd. Tedy Bruschi 3rd rd selection, prior to Pioli, is another starter. Free agents like Mike Vrable 2001, Adalius Thomas 2007, Roosevelt Colvin 2003-2007 and Junior Seau 2006-2007 have been valuable contributors to the Patriots.

Conclusion – Pioli will mostly use late round draft picks for linebackers and add to that with free agent linebackers. The Jarod Mayo pick showed though if he sees a need he will sometimes go as high as 1st rd in the draft on a LB.

Nine defensive ends drafted with Richard Seymour, 1st rd 2001, and Ty Warren, 2003 1st rd 2003, as the starters. Jarvis Green, 4th rd pick from 2002, has also started in the past.

Eight defensive tackles drafted with Vince Wilfork, 1st rd in 2004, being the starting NT. Mike Wright, college free agent from 2005, has been a part time starter.

Conclusion – Pioli believes in the strength of a defensive line and will use 1st rd draft picks on them when needed.

[warrior]

Pretty good analysis, nice post. :thumb:

[Wilson8]

Year RD Pick Name Position
2003 5 164 Dan Koppen C
2001 2 48 Matt Light T
2005 3 100 Nick Kaczur T
2001 4 96 Kenyatta Jones T
2000 4 127 Greg Randall T
1998 4 111 Jason Fabini T
2007 5 171 Clint Oldenburg T
2006 5 136 Ryan O'Callaghan T
1998 5 149 Eric Bateman T
2007 6 209 Corey Hilliard T
1999 7 223 Ryan Young T
2005 1 32 Logan Mankins G
2000 2 46 Adrian Klemm G
1999 2 57 Randy Thomas G
1999 3 90 David Loverne G
1998 5 141 Doug Karczewski G
1997 5 131 Lamont Burns G
2006 6 205 Dan Stevenson G
1999 6 197 J.P. Machado G
2007 7 247 Mike Elgin G

[orange]

Summary - Planeteers who hate Teicher for calling for a DL with that #3 pick may be jumping off the Pioli bandwagon very soon.

[Brock]

Summary - Planeteers who hate Teicher for calling for a DL with that #3 pick may be jumping off the Pioli bandwagon very soon.

I don't see a DL that is going that high this year.

[Wilson8]

On my post about the offensive line, I was wrong about Greg Randell. He was drafted by Pioli in 2000 in the 4th round.

[Wilson8]

Look at these DBs drafted. The free agent signings are almost as long.

Year RD Pick Name Position
2007 1 24 Brandon Meriweather DB
2008 2 62 Terrence Wheatley DB
2003 2 36 Eugene Wilson DB
2005 3 84 Ellis Hobbs DB
2004 3 95 Guss Scott DB
2001 3 86 Brock Williams DB
1998 3 67 Scott Frost DB
1998 3 87 Kevin Williams DB
2008 4 129 Jonathan Wilhite DB
2005 4 133 James Sanders DB
2004 4 113 Dexter Reid DB
2003 4 120 Asante Samuel DB
1999 5 162 Jermaine Jones DB
1997 5 145 Raymond Austin DB
2007 6 202 Mike Richardson DB
2001 6 200 Leonard Myers DB
2000 6 187 Antwan Harris DB
2006 7 229 Willie Andrews DB
2004 7 233 Christian Morton DB
1997 7 202 Steve Rosga DB

[Wilson8]

Defensive line

Year RD Pick Name Position
2003 1 13 Ty Warren DE
2001 1 6 Richard Seymour DE
2004 2 63 Marquise Hill DE
1998 2 56 Dorian Boose DE
2002 4 126 Jarvis Green DE
1997 4 102 Terry Day DE
2006 6 191 Jeremy Mincey DE
2000 6 201 David Nugent DE
1998 6 163 Eric Ogbogu DE
1997 2 31 Rick Terry DT
2007 4 127 Kareem Brown DT
2003 4 117 Dan Klecko DT
1999 4 123 Jason Wiltz DT
2000 5 161 Jeff Marriott DT
2006 6 206 LeKevin Smith DT
2003 7 243 Ethan Kelley DT
1997 7 229 Jason Ferguson DT
2004 1 21 Vince Wilfork NT

[Wilson8]

I forgot to put a conclusion about WR...seem to have a hard time drafting a good WR and prefer to go the trade and free agent route. I know that is probably all wrong and it always depends on the situation but...draft does not look real good and the trades have worked for them.

[Wilson8]

Well the Deion Branch draft pick was pretty good. Chad Jackson not so good.

Year RD Pick Name Position
2006 2 36 Chad Jackson WR
2003 2 45 Bethel Johnson WR
2002 2 65 Deion Branch WR
1997 3 88 Dedric Ward WR
2008 5 153 Matt Slater WR
2004 5 164 P.K. Sam WR
1998 6 174 Chris Brazzell WR
2002 7 253 David Givens WR

[Wilson8]

Free agent WRs Jabar Gaffney 2006, Dante Stallworth, 2007, Kelly Washington, 2007, David Patton 2001, David Terrell 2005, Tim Dwight 2005 are some of the NE pickups. For the most part not real impressive.

[Wilson8]

We don’t really know which decisions were Pioli’s, but I’ll make the assumption that he at least had some control.

From this analysis, I think Scott Pioli will do a good job in acquiring offensive linemen, defensive linemen, linebackers, defensive backs, quarterbacks, and kickers. It also looks like he could use some help with evaluating talent at WR, TE, and RB. Hopefully the new head coach or offensive coordinator can help with that.

This is certainly a great improvement of what we had with Carl.

[Wilson8]

Year RD Pick Name Position
2004 1 32 Ben Watson TE
2002 1 21 Daniel Graham TE
2006 3 86 David Thomas TE
2001 4 119 Jabari Holloway TE
2000 5 141 Dave Stachelski TE
1998 5 146 Blake Spence TE
2001 6 180 Arther Love TE
2005 7 255 Andy Stokes TE
1998 7 195 Lawrence Hart TE

[Wilson8]

2006 1 21 Laurence Maroney RB
2000 3 76 J.R. Redmond RB
2004 4 128 Cedric Cobbs RB
1997 4 104 Leon Johnson RB
2007 6 208 Justise Hairston RB
2002 7 237 Antwoine Womack RB

[bowener]

I scanned this, looks like a good read. I have to shit magma right now though.... literally going to run!

[orange]

I scanned this, looks like a good read. I have to shit magma right now though.... literally going to run!

You took time to type this response? That's the kind of dedication the Chiefs need to get back to the glory days!

[kstater]

Summary - Planeteers who hate Teicher for calling for a DL with that #3 pick may be jumping off the Pioli bandwagon very soon.

Unless Stafford or Sanchez rapes Pioli's mother, or someone trades to the #2 spot, Pioli is taking a QB at #3.

[Wilson8]

So…

Chiefs do not have a dominate center that can anchor the KC line for years to come. The 2009 NFL draft has 5 players that will go in the 2nd through 3rd round. I expect Scott Pioli to take one of them.

Chiefs need help at linebacker. The free agent market is pretty good this year. I expect Scott to go after 1 or 2 free agent linebackers and draft a late round linebacker.
Chiefs need help on the right side of the offensive line. I expect Scott to sign a free agent and draft a mid to late round pick to improve the line.

The Chiefs need help on the defensive line. It depends on if KC goes to 3 down lineman or stays with 4. If we stay with 4 then I would expect a defensive end in the 1st or 2nd. If we go to 3 then I expect a NT to be picked in the 1st or 2nd.

Chiefs need help at wide receiver so the past Pioli trend would be to sign a free agent.

Pioli seems to always go after DBs, so I expect either a free agent signing or a mid-round draft pick.

Quarterback – don’t really want to get into this argument, but probably not going to sign a free agent unless Cassel becomes available. I expect a draft pick but not sure at what round. Changed my mind, I see a 1st round QB being taken this year.

1st round – QB
2nd round – DE or DT
3rd round – Center
4th round – DB
5th round – LB
6th round – OL
7th round – Kicker
FA – WR
FA – ROT
FA – LB
FA - LB

[keg in kc]

Chiefs do not have a dominate center Is 'dominate' in the lexicon yet? If it isn't, it should be.

[Wilson8]

Back when there was talk of trading Tony Gonzalez, I thought that New England was a possible trade partner. New England has certainly tried to improve the tight end position in the past and Tony would be another good target for Brady to throw to. Also it would be a good place for Tony to finally earn a championship ring.

[Wilson8]

Is 'dominate' in the lexicon yet? If it isn't, it should be.

Dominate, dominating, kick-ass, no one gets through me. I like Rudy Niswanger but when he gets driven back into the backfield it causes more of a problem for Brian Waters and the right guard. The defender can spin off, go around, and push the guard into the hole. Just so we are clear, I did not say push the guard in his hole.;)

If the Chiefs can get a RT and a center, then Rudy, Damion, Herb and any others, can fight it out for the right guard job.

[Mr. Laz]

imo Pioli:

will draft inside/out
will love gonzo
will let players at high risk positions walk if they want too much cash
believes that you need athletes on defense
believes you need a good system/quarterback on offense

[orange]

Dominate, dominating, kick-ass, no one gets through me. I like Rudy Niswanger but when he gets driven back into the backfield it causes more of a problem for Brian Waters and the right guard. The defender can spin off, go around, and push the guard into the hole. Just so we are clear, I did not say push the guard in his hole.;)

If the Chiefs can get a RT and a center, then Rudy, Damion, Herb and any others, can fight it out for the right guard job.

Dominant is the word you're looking for.

[Wilson8]

Dominant is the word you're looking for.

Thanks. That slipped right by me when Keg put up his post.

[mcan]

It looks to me like Pioli puts an equal value on basically all positions on the field, except for centers.


It might seem like he overvalues DBs until you realize that you actually play 4 DBs at minimum on every snap. On average, it looks like for every ACTUAL player on the field, he's drafted about 5 people for that spot. That's pretty balanced actually.

[WilliamTheIrish]

Nice job Wilson. I enjoyed reading that.

PS: Really sorry I lost you before the big ship found me/ Tom

[beach tribe]

Free agent WRs Jabar Gaffney 2006, Dante Stallworth, 2007, Kelly Washington, 2007, David Patton 2001, David Terrell 2005, Tim Dwight 2005 are some of the NE pickups. For the most part not real impressive.

None of them were expensive either.

[WilliamTheIrish]

Look at these DBs drafted. The free agent signings are almost as long.

Year RD Pick Name Position
2007 1 24 Brandon Meriweather DB
2008 2 62 Terrence Wheatley DB
2003 2 36 Eugene Wilson DB
2005 3 84 Ellis Hobbs DB
2004 3 95 Guss Scott DB
2001 3 86 Brock Williams DB
1998 3 67 Scott Frost DB
1998 3 87 Kevin Williams DB
2008 4 129 Jonathan Wilhite DB
2005 4 133 James Sanders DB
2004 4 113 Dexter Reid DB
2003 4 120 Asante Samuel DB
1999 5 162 Jermaine Jones DB
1997 5 145 Raymond Austin DB
2007 6 202 Mike Richardson DB
2001 6 200 Leonard Myers DB
2000 6 187 Antwan Harris DB
2006 7 229 Willie Andrews DB
2004 7 233 Christian Morton DB
1997 7 202 Steve Rosga DB

One thing to remember here is that in one season - can't remember which- NE had so many injuries in the D backfield that David Patton played close to 30 plays as a nickel back.

They signed guys off the street and marched them out there.

[Wilson8]

Free agency DBs for New England under Pioli. Also need to add this to the draft list.
2008 – Added Fernando Bryant, Jason Webster, Lewis Sanders, and Tank Williams.
2008 – Losses of Randall Gay, Asante Samuel, Mel Mitchell, Chad Scott, Eugene Wilson.
2007 – Added Eddie Jackson and Tory James.
2007 – Losses of Tebucky Jones and Ray Mickens.
2006 – Added Tebucky Jones, Mel Mitchell, and Eric Warfield.
2006 – Losses Tyrone Poole and Duane Starks.
2005 – Added Chad Scott.
2005 – Losses Ty Law and Earthwind Moreland.
2004 – Added Jeff Burris and Otis Smith.
2004 – Losses Chris Akins and Antwan Harris.
2003 – Added Chris Akins, Tyrone Poole, Aric Moore, and Rodney Harrison.
2003 – Losses Terrell Buckley and Tebucky Jones.
2002 – Added Chris Hayes, Rob Kelly, Tom Knight, and Daryl Porter.
2002 – Losses Hakim Akbar, Terrance Shaw, Ray Hill, and Matt Stevens.
2001 – Added Terrance Shaw.
2001 – Losses Antonio Langham and Larry Whigham.

[the Talking Can]

So…

Chiefs do not have a dominate center that can anchor the KC line for years to come. The 2009 NFL draft has 5 players that will go in the 2nd through 3rd round. I expect Scott Pioli to take one of them.

Chiefs need help at linebacker. The free agent market is pretty good this year. I expect Scott to go after 1 or 2 free agent linebackers and draft a late round linebacker.
Chiefs need help on the right side of the offensive line. I expect Scott to sign a free agent and draft a mid to late round pick to improve the line.

The Chiefs need help on the defensive line. It depends on if KC goes to 3 down lineman or stays with 4. If we stay with 4 then I would expect a defensive end in the 1st or 2nd. If we go to 3 then I expect a NT to be picked in the 1st or 2nd.

Chiefs need help at wide receiver so the past Pioli trend would be to sign a free agent.

Pioli seems to always go after DBs, so I expect either a free agent signing or a mid-round draft pick.

Quarterback – don’t really want to get into this argument, but probably not going to sign a free agent unless Cassel becomes available. I expect a draft pick but not sure at what round. Changed my mind, I see a 1st round QB being taken this year.

1st round – QB
2nd round – DE or DT
3rd round – Center
4th round – DB
5th round – LB
6th round – OL
7th round – Kicker
FA – WR
FA – ROT
FA – LB
FA - LB

nice post...this is in the ballpark of what to expect, i think, and hope (QB in round 1)

[the Talking Can]

It looks to me like Pioli puts an equal value on basically all positions on the field, except for centers.


It might seem like he overvalues DBs until you realize that you actually play 4 DBs at minimum on every snap. On average, it looks like for every ACTUAL player on the field, he's drafted about 5 people for that spot. That's pretty balanced actually.

part it may be that good CBs get expensive second contracts and he wants to have replacements handy, or at least as leverage....

i think, for instance, they've kept and resigned their LBs (a cheaper position) while letting CBs (prime $$$ position) walk..

[RippedmyFlesh]

part it may be that good CBs get expensive second contracts and he wants to have replacements handy, or at least as leverage....

i think, for instance, they've kept and resigned their LBs (a cheaper position) while letting CBs (prime $$$ position) walk..
And they always seem to have vet safeteys and LBs to help the young CB's.

[Wilson8]

Free agent TEs added during Pioli’s time with New England.
2002 – Added Cam Cleeland and Christian Fauria.
2007 – Added Kyle Brady.
2008 – Added Marcus Pollard.

[smittysbar]

A great post, thought I would give it a bump

[CupidStunt]

Summary - Planeteers who hate Teicher for calling for a DL with that #3 pick may be jumping off the Pioli bandwagon very soon.

Retarded as ChiefsPlanet/Mecca-types is/are, I don't think DE would go down badly at all if there was a guy WORTH it. That's the issue in this draft.