helping the economy

[tooge]

Do you try to buy local or at least made in the USA product or do you just shop here you shop and buy whatever regardless of where it is made? I no longer shop at WalMart for example unless it is the middle of the night and nothing else is open. What do you guys do?

[Pants]

I pay about $1.5mil in taxes every year, how about that?

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

I pay about $1.5mil in taxes every year, how about that?

slacker

[Katipan]

The company I work for is big on buying locally and using local companies as subcontractors. I've now seen what Wal*mart does to small communities, and I still find myself shopping there occasionally. But thats because I like to shop at 2 a.m. :( And it's a mile away.

I'm horrible.

[blueballs]

Just cause you buy local
only means it came from Mexico
instead of China

[NewChief]

I try to buy from small business owners instead of big chains. Where this mainly affects me:

Groceries: try to buy from the Farmer's Market as much as possible, but that's only during about half the year. The rest of the year, I buy from the natural foods co-op or one of our local grocers when possible. I still end up making a trip to wal-mart pretty often.
Books: I always buy from my local book store instead of the chains.
Music: I buy from the local music store when I buy CDs (which isn't often).
Food: I try to avoid chains, even for "fast food."
Hardware: we have a locally owned hardware store that is close to my house. I use them when I can, but I always end up at Lowe's for any major projects.

[tooge]

For all the bitching about the economy and for all the lost jobs, it sure doesn't seem like very many people are really that eager to try to help. If they were, we would probably be boycotting WalMart and other large chains and buying only from momand pop stores, no?

[Frosty]

I would boycott Wal-Mart if it didn't mean a 180 mile round trip to do so.

[tooge]

I would boycott Wal-Mart if it didn't mean a 180 mile round trip to do so.

You have to drive 180 miles to get food and goods? Where the hell do you live?

[penguinz]

You have to drive 180 miles to get food and goods? Where the hell do you live?His profile says Warshington.

[El Jefe]

For the past few years, I have over paid for things made in the USA, and I will continue to do so. I have bought everything I can that is made in America, some things you dont have much of a choice. I stopped going to Wal-mart last year, sometimes you have to, but I don't make it a regular thing. I am willing to pay more for things made in America.

[seclark]

shop local and made in usa when possible.

a couple years back, when we built our house it took 2 trips to home depot for me to decide, "piss on this". between the service, returning bad shit, etc drove me nuts. we went w/a local lumber company that delivered, took back the goods that my contractor said was faulty and was very helpful in choosing materials.

sec

[El Jefe]

I would boycott Wal-Mart if it didn't mean a 180 mile round trip to do so.

Where do you live that can possibly be 180 miles from a grocery store?

[Agent V]

I would boycott Wal-Mart if it didn't mean a 180 mile round trip to do so.

See? Aren't you glad Wal-Mart now builds stores on the sides of mountains?

[Frosty]

You have to drive 180 miles to get food and goods? Where the hell do you live?

Not everything (we have other grocery stores and we do shop them) but when Wal-mart moved in, they put a ton of small businesses out of business. I live in the sticks near the Canadian border and there are items that I have to get at Wal-Mart or drive to Spokane to get. There are also some items (like toiletries) that are over twice the price at the local stores. I'm afraid that in those situations, there is no convincing the wife that boycotting Wal-Mart is in our best interest.

I do shop as little as I can there, though (partly because I absolutely hate going there).

[tooge]

sounds like a cool place to live though. We live in the sticks, but only few miles outside of town. If I could drag the wife to the "real" sticks like your area, it would be a dream for me. Not happenin though.

[MahiMike]

I always buy from the little guy. Always have. Walmart is forbidden in our household. All outsourcing can be traced back to Sam Walton's idea of a global economy. My kids know that the money there is going back to communist China's red army. The only reason they haven't invaded us yet is because of all the U.S. Dollars we owe them. Once the dollar is no longer the world's standard currency - watch out.
This country is finally realizing the destruction Walmart has done. Problem is now they're too broke to fix it.

[Frosty]

sounds like a cool place to live though. We live in the sticks, but only few miles outside of town. If I could drag the wife to the "real" sticks like your area, it would be a dream for me. Not happenin though.

There are a lot of nice things about it. However, I missed the variety offered by living closer to a city. For example, I have to go Spokane if I want authentic Thai food (I am getting good at cooking it, though). You better also like to stay home during the winter as there isn't much to do, entertainment-wise. The schools are also limited in the classes they can offer your kids because they are so small (and very poor).

All in all, a mixed bag.

[Stewie]

How can you blame retailers for all the foreign products on the shelves when all the manufacturing moved overseas years ago? This whole economy is based on the "service" sector. That's the sector that's the leach on the company/worker that actually manufactures real products here in the United States. You can't base an economy on selling each other insurance, "investing" other people's money, writing a prescription, or selling a mortgage. If you really want to help this economy go get a job with a MANUFACTURER OF GOODS and help them be competitive... In other words, not a hospital, not a bank, not an investment company, not ANY government (local, state, fed) FOR SURE!

[petegz28]

I try to support local and US based companies. Though I have no problems with companies like car makers who actually have plants here in the US. It is hard to avoid buying foreign, no matter how hard you try. But I stay out of the Wal-Marts and such as much as possible.

In fact lately I am trying to stay away from Chain stores to for the most part, like Starbucks and such. That is a bit more tough to do though. If I can get a Backyard Burger instead of a Big Mac I am there 9 times out of 10.

[DaFace]

There's no question that Wal-Mart pretty much kills a lot of mom-and-pop-style local businesses, but unless something has come out recently, I don't believe there have been any studies that conclusively show Wal-Mart having a negative effect on the U.S. economy as a whole. So if your goal is to help out mom-and-pop stores, then more power to you, but I don't see boycotting Wal-Mart as doing anything to improve the recession.

[Saulbadguy]

There's no question that Wal-Mart pretty much kills a lot of mom-and-pop-style local businesses, but unless something has come out recently, I don't believe there have been any studies that conclusively show Wal-Mart having a negative effect on the U.S. economy as a whole. So if your goal is to help out mom-and-pop stores, then more power to you, but I don't see boycotting Wal-Mart as doing anything to improve the recession.
I boycott Wal-Mart to do my best to avoid long checkout lines, trailer trash, and generally inferior products (not always).

I'd say you are an idiot if you think boycotting Wal-Mart will somehow positively affect the US economy.

[PastorMikH]

I try to help my economy by selecting the best product for the cheapest price. Have to, with 3 kids I don't have a lot of extra $ to spend more for the same thing at a more expensive shop.

[Saulbadguy]

It is hard to avoid buying foreign, no matter how hard you try.

I'd say it is nearly impossible.

[88TG88]

I boycott Wal-Mart to do my best to avoid long checkout lines, trailer trash, and generally inferior products (not always).


this

[aturnis]

I do shop as little as I can there, though (partly because I absolutely hate going there).

Unless you get your Wal-Mart bingo card. It makes it almost delightfully fun. Counting fat ladies in the motarized carts, mullets, toothless women, fat white chicks with mixed-race kids whom they CONSTANTLY scream at. Women who have been recently beaten.

Not to mention the people with the undeserved sense of entitlement that allows them to walk in the 2-3ft. I leave between myself and the things I'm looking at/for, w/o feeling obligated to apologize. Though when you do the same..." 'SCUSE ME!"

Wal-Mart ROCKS!

[Buehler445]

There's no question that Wal-Mart pretty much kills a lot of mom-and-pop-style local businesses, but unless something has come out recently, I don't believe there have been any studies that conclusively show Wal-Mart having a negative effect on the U.S. economy as a whole. So if your goal is to help out mom-and-pop stores, then more power to you, but I don't see boycotting Wal-Mart as doing anything to improve the recession.

That would be a pretty complex study....

Personally, I hate Wal-Mart but shop there. Unfortunately there is little else that makes economic sense in my location.

As far as helping the mom and pops. Places that give me good service, I go to as frequently as I can afford to.

[Extra Point]

I always buy from the little guy. Always have. Walmart is forbidden in our household. All outsourcing can be traced back to Sam Walton's idea of a global economy. My kids know that the money there is going back to communist China's red army. The only reason they haven't invaded us yet is because of all the U.S. Dollars we owe them. Once the dollar is no longer the world's standard currency - watch out.
This country is finally realizing the destruction Walmart has done. Problem is now they're too broke to fix it.

Great assessment.

[cdcox]

I bought several hundred dollars worth of plumbing fixtures a while back. I ordered them on the internet because I saved at least 40% by doing so. I did research the company to find a US Brand. When it all got here, it was made in China. America doesn't make anything any more.

[HemiEd]

I always buy from the little guy. Always have. Walmart is forbidden in our household. All outsourcing can be traced back to Sam Walton's idea of a global economy. My kids know that the money there is going back to communist China's red army. The only reason they haven't invaded us yet is because of all the U.S. Dollars we owe them. Once the dollar is no longer the world's standard currency - watch out.
This country is finally realizing the destruction Walmart has done. Problem is now they're too broke to fix it.

In defense of Sam Walton, unless I have my facts all messed up, he promoted American made products.
After he passed is when they went almost exclusively foreign.

However, I hated the way they strong armed suppliers, even when he was alive. In fact, we gave them 30 days to find a different supplier back in the late 80s. :D
They beat you down to a very small profit, then would string you out 90 days. This was when everyone else was paying in 30.


Don't get me wrong, I only go to Walmart for oil. The place gives me the hives just walking in there.
Our company sells only American made products and we refuse to buy foreign.

[2bikemike]

I buy my Ammo from Wal Mart. I can't see paying 30% more to buy the same product elsewhere. I also buy my wranglers there as well. Same reason as stated before. Other than those two items I am hard pressed to come up with anything else purchased from Wal Mart.

I don't have anything against Wal Mart if they had something I wanted at a better price it would be foolish to buy elsewhere.

[BWillie]

I buy whatever is cheapest, wherever it is cheapest. I don't care if it's online from Iran or in some little town in the midwest.

[BWillie]

For the past few years, I have over paid for things made in the USA, and I will continue to do so. I have bought everything I can that is made in America, some things you dont have much of a choice. I stopped going to Wal-mart last year, sometimes you have to, but I don't make it a regular thing. I am willing to pay more for things made in America.

So everything at Wal-Mart is made in China right?

[BWillie]

You guys do realize that Wal-Mart has the most employees of any other non-governmental company in the entire United States right? Everybody hates big companies, but big companies are where MOST people work.

[Skip Towne]

The guy who owns the '55 Chevy in my avatar s 73 years old and is an abslute nut about buying American. He told me the other day that my Levis are foreign made. I checked when I got home and sure enough, made in Colombia.

[Psyko Tek]

I can't think of that much manufacturing actually done in this country

I built electronics for defense,
the only reason that ain't been outsourced is the govt won't let them

[Phobia]

I'm not a nut about it but I try to support local businesses whenever possible. I support locally owned lumber yards and building supply shops. I've reduced my patronage of Home Depot and Lowes by about 80% in the past 6 months. If not local then I try to buy American products. One exception to that rule is my wife's mini-van which is a Toyota.

Another thing I do is write columns encouraging people to patronize local businesses. I'll drop a link to one a little later. I've also joined the local Chamber of Commerce and try to help businesses survive by providing affordable advertising and advocating for those businesses with like minds. In addition to providing advertising I also recognize businesses with whom I've had a positive experience in our newspaper. One such experience was when our daughter was stillborn last fall; D.W. Newcomber & Sons provides their services free of charge under those circumstances. So, definitely patronize those guys if you have the misfortune of making arrangements for a loved one in the future.

[Bugeater]

For all the bitching about the economy and for all the lost jobs, it sure doesn't seem like very many people are really that eager to try to help. If they were, we would probably be boycotting WalMart and other large chains and buying only from momand pop stores, no?

No, the only jobs that Wal-mart has eliminated is mom and pop's. Their employees are now working at W-M instead, and probably have access to better benefits.

[beavis]

I generally shop the lowest price available, period. That being said, I despise Wal-Mart and everything it stands for, and avoid it whenever possible.

[Extra Point]

I'm not a nut about it but I try to support local businesses whenever possible. I support locally owned lumber yards and building supply shops. I've reduced my patronage of Home Depot and Lowes by about 80% in the past 6 months. If not local then I try to buy American products. One exception to that rule is my wife's mini-van which is a Toyota.

Another thing I do is write columns encouraging people to patronize local businesses. I'll drop a link to one a little later. I've also joined the local Chamber of Commerce and try to help businesses survive by providing affordable advertising and advocating for those businesses with like minds. In addition to providing advertising I also recognize businesses with whom I've had a positive experience in our newspaper. One such experience was when our daughter was stillborn last fall; D.W. Newcomber & Sons provides their services free of charge under those circumstances. So, definitely patronize those guys if you have the misfortune of making arrangements for a loved one in the future.

That was nice of Newcomers to do that. We're all still sorry for your loss, Phobia.

[Phobia]

There's no question that Wal-Mart pretty much kills a lot of mom-and-pop-style local businesses, but unless something has come out recently, I don't believe there have been any studies that conclusively show Wal-Mart having a negative effect on the U.S. economy as a whole. So if your goal is to help out mom-and-pop stores, then more power to you, but I don't see boycotting Wal-Mart as doing anything to improve the recession.

I don't know what studies show so I'll defer to you. However, I'd rather spend my dollar somewhere I know the profits will benefit a local businessowner rather than sending those dollars to some filthy rich Walton or Blank.

Another thing we should be doing is buying local produce. Not only is it supporting local farmers but it's better for you because it's fresh, not generally genetically enhanced, and is properly ripened to be shipped a few miles rather than picked green to be shipped halfway across the country.

[Skip Towne]

Did anyone else notice the absence of ads by American Auto mfgs. during the Super Bowl?

[DaFace]

I don't know what studies show so I'll defer to you. However, I'd rather spend my dollar somewhere I know the profits will benefit a local businessowner rather than sending those dollars to some filthy rich Walton or Blank.

Another thing we should be doing is buying local produce. Not only is it supporting local farmers but it's better for you because it's fresh, not generally genetically enhanced, and is properly ripened to be shipped a few miles rather than picked green to be shipped halfway across the country.

Like I said, there's no question that Wally World hurts other competing businesses. However, when people save money at Wal-Mart, they have it to spend elsewhere. And when people have more money to spend, that helps the economy. Is it worth it in the end? Economics is so damn complicated that I'm not even going to try and answer that one. It's just that people always talk about Wal-Mart stealing jobs without addressing the fact that people have more money to spend elsewhere because of it.

The one study I could find about it basically says that, on the micro-level, opening a new Wal-Mart Supercenter will kill the other competitors in the area, but help all of the non-competing businesses. So take that for what it's worth.

http://www.econ.iastate.edu/faculty/stone/MSsupercenterstudy.pdf

[Phobia]

No, the only jobs that Wal-mart has eliminated is mom and pop's. Their employees are now working at W-M instead, and probably have access to better benefits.

Their employees and owners. I'm sure the benefits are of little consolation to them.

[Phobia]

Did anyone else notice the absence of ads by American Auto mfgs. during the Super Bowl?

I did. I also noticed no shortage of Sprint ads. Each time I commented, "I wonder how many jobs that ad cost Sprint!"

[Phobia]

http://www.econ.iastate.edu/faculty/stone/MSsupercenterstudy.pdf

Like people from Iowa know anything at all.

[Skip Towne]

The way I understand it, Wal-Mart does everything possible to keep the employees part time. I talked to a cashier the other day and she said they keep switching her back and forth. She was quite disgruntled.

[blueballs]

Did you try to pick up the lady in the bakery too
her hours would be less hectic

[eazyb81]

I do my part by buying pot from local growers instead of buying from Mexico.

[RJ]

For years, I have tried to spend my money with local businesses. I also do my best to not buy Chinese products, but that's not so easy to do. I've reached a point where if I can find something made in Mexico instead of China it feels like a victory. At least they're part of our continent.

It really pisses me off. At the local groceries, I can't buy frozen fish or shrimp from an American company. I know we still fish, so where is it being sold? Why does Smiths (part of Kroger) sell Chinese garlic? I'm pretty sure we grow garlic. Why can't Mattel make Barbie dolls here? Why do we need China to make our dog food?

I seriously don't get it. Who does this benefit? As consumers, can we possibly be saving enough money on the products to justify destroying our manufacturing base? I worry about what will happen if we ever get involved in another major war. How will we produce the goods we need?

[Phobia]

That was nice of Newcomers to do that. We're all still sorry for your loss, Phobia.

Newcomers does that for stillborn babies. It's an amazing public service that deserves recognition.

[Saulbadguy]

I don't know what studies show so I'll defer to you. However, I'd rather spend my dollar somewhere I know the profits will benefit a local businessowner rather than sending those dollars to some filthy rich Walton or Blank.

Another thing we should be doing is buying local produce. Not only is it supporting local farmers but it's better for you because it's fresh, not generally genetically enhanced, and is properly ripened to be shipped a few miles rather than picked green to be shipped halfway across the country.

Wal-Mart has begun to carry more local produce. I shop at Hy-Vee and they carry quite a bit of local produce.

[Saulbadguy]

For years, I have tried to spend my money with local businesses. I also do my best to not buy Chinese products, but that's not so easy to do. I've reached a point where if I can find something made in Mexico instead of China it feels like a victory. At least they're part of our continent.

It really pisses me off. At the local groceries, I can't buy frozen fish or shrimp from an American company. I know we still fish, so where is it being sold? Why does Smiths (part of Kroger) sell Chinese garlic? I'm pretty sure we grow garlic. Why can't Mattel make Barbie dolls here? Why do we need China to make our dog food?

I seriously don't get it. Who does this benefit? As consumers, can we possibly be saving enough money on the products to justify destroying our manufacturing base? I worry about what will happen if we ever get involved in another major war. How will we produce the goods we need?

Economics 101. Google "absolute advantage" and "comparative advantage". If you feel the need to spend more $$$ on the exact same product, feel free to be an idiot and do such.

[88TG88]

I do my part by buying pot from local growers instead of buying from Mexico.

bless you

[Saulbadguy]

bless you

Industrial hemp could be a huge cash crop for the united states.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Buy American

http://images.cars.com/main/DMI/180140/27663A.jpg

[Rausch]

I don't know what studies show so I'll defer to you. However, I'd rather spend my dollar somewhere I know the profits will benefit a local businessowner rather than sending those dollars to some filthy rich Walton or Blank.

Another thing we should be doing is buying local produce. Not only is it supporting local farmers but it's better for you because it's fresh, not generally genetically enhanced, and is properly ripened to be shipped a few miles rather than picked green to be shipped halfway across the country.

I firmly believe we're beyond all that.

The politician points the dollar more than the consumer at this point.

That's a very strong comment on your Republic...

[sportsman1]

I will never ever shop at Wal Mart for groceries. Down in DFW they have ran so many grocery stores out of business it's not even funny. WalMarx is ok for certain things because more often than not they are the only place handy.

[Iowanian]

I go out of my way to buy local when I can and within reason.

I'm only willing to pay a certain percentage markup for the same item, but if I've got a bigger project like a roof or a deck or something, I'll give the local place a chance to compete with the big boys, but I'm not paying $500 extra on a $2k job for the priviledge of buying local.

Locally, the benefit of each family buying $5/week extra, of things they wouldn't normally buy locally makes a huge difference to those stores, as well as the local taxes.

[prhom]

First of all, you guys realize that the massive trade imbalance between the U.S. and China is because of the sheer volume of crap that we import. Most of the "profit" is retained by the U.S. company that pays a Chinese company 10 cents to make a metal hanger, but sells it to you for 50 cents. We would not import all this stuff if it didn't make economic sense to do so. The fact that we import garlic from China should scare the crap out of us as Americans. Sadly, we have a very inflated opinion of what our time is worth in this country. The only long term solution for us as a nation is to figure out what we're going to export in the future that will be needed by the world as a whole. Someone said earlier in this thread that we should go work for a company that actually produces something, and they're totally right. We have marginalized and trampled the very industries that made us a great country in the first place. But to regain that position we are going to have to get over our pride and get competitive again.

[Buehler445]

For years, I have tried to spend my money with local businesses. I also do my best to not buy Chinese products, but that's not so easy to do. I've reached a point where if I can find something made in Mexico instead of China it feels like a victory. At least they're part of our continent.

It really pisses me off. At the local groceries, I can't buy frozen fish or shrimp from an American company. I know we still fish, so where is it being sold? Why does Smiths (part of Kroger) sell Chinese garlic? I'm pretty sure we grow garlic. Why can't Mattel make Barbie dolls here? Why do we need China to make our dog food?

I seriously don't get it. Who does this benefit? As consumers, can we possibly be saving enough money on the products to justify destroying our manufacturing base? I worry about what will happen if we ever get involved in another major war. How will we produce the goods we need?

RJ, I mean this with no disrespect, but it is all about profit margin. Cabela's makes a lot of private label stuff and almost all of it is imported, because they can make more money off of it. SIGNFICANTLY more money off of it.

There are tremendous added costs to buying products for retail sale from over seas.

Freight (shipping from port to port and THEN trucking it to a warehouse)
Duty
Long distance QA (take a lot of upfront costs)
Lead time (inventory costs)


Even with all that crap, it is cheaper to have someone overseas manufacture your crap.

The cost of production in the US is astronomical. Not only is it fatasses like you and me that think we ought to get paid a lot (coincidentally the chinese currency is indexed off of the US dollar, so their shit will always be cheap and their wages relatively high), but the governmental regulations around most production drives up costs tremendously.

The ass that is the US dollar is helping drive down relative costs of US manufacturing. However, without a fundemental structural change, manufacturing will not return to the US in a large scale IMO.

[Extra Point]

The US debt will get the Chinks off their dollar-hungry path. When are we going to see health care doing pro-active things, instead of pill-pushing?

[Phobia]

Could do without the racial slurs, please.

[NewChief]

If you're really interested in local economies and reasons to buy local, you might want to check out Deep Economy by Bill McKibben.

[BucEyedPea]

My gf lost her job and had to still work. In the meantime WalMart was hiring. It saved her Christmas. After Christmas she was promoted to manager. Now she can feed her family of 4. Thanks to WalMart. Doing the economy good. BTW they do hire Americans.

When the dollar crashes, you'll see more being bought at home. We'll all be poorer too.

I buy my produce local....simply because it's better quality. The less transit time, the more nutrients. In fact I now grow my own tomatoes, lettuce, arugula and herbs and will be planting more. Can't get more local, cheaper and tastier than that.

[007]

I go to a couple local hardware stores when I need to do a quick fix and all but I prefer one stop shopping for everything else. I don't plan on running around wasting gas to go to three different stores when I can get it all at one.

I would love to hit more locally owned restaurants but seems like all of them are Mexican food in our town. They all taste the same too.

I also hit all our locally owned CD and video game shops. I avoid giving money to chains for that stuff.

[Saulbadguy]

I go to a couple local hardware stores when I need to do a quick fix and all but I prefer one stop shopping for everything else. I don't plan on running around wasting gas to go to three different stores when I can get it all at one.

I would love to hit more locally owned restaurants but seems like all of them are Mexican food in our town. They all taste the same too.

I also hit all our locally owned CD and video game shops. I avoid giving money to chains for that stuff.

Heh - I highly, highly doubt those mexican joints are "locally" owned. There are plenty of good local restaurants around here, though.

[wazu]

I tend to lean towards local where possible, but it better be a quality product. Boulevard and Jack Stack are two good examples. Same for Missouri wines.

One word on Wal-Mart, though - I am pretty sure it is still an American company. And the people it employs all live in somebody's local community. And the leverage they use on their suppliers keep prices down, which also benefits us all. Wal-Mart going out of business would be a very negative force on the U.S. economy.

[Iowanian]

I don't hate everything about walmart. I've got a buddy in a wheel chair who is an assist manager and from what he's said, they have treated him well.


Small town "shopping local" isn't in the same discussion as those of you in larger cities. Our choices are 6-8 local stores or driving to a larger community to spend money there.

[Saulbadguy]

I don't hate everything about walmart. I've got a buddy in a wheel chair who is an assist manager and from what he's said, they have treated him well.


Small town "shopping local" isn't in the same discussion as those of you in larger cities. Our choices are 6-8 local stores or driving to a larger community to spend money there.

It's really not, I agree with you.

In my area we do not have ANY non-chain grocery stores, that I know of. It's Hy-Vee, Dillons (Kroger), or Wal-Mart. Aldi's is an option too I suppose, but F that. No more IGA's in my area, maybe not in this entire city.

[patteeu]

I try not to buy anything anywhere. When I have to, I don't mind buying it from Walmart. My buying criteria are (1) product meets my needs, (2) price, and (3) convenience/travel distance. If all else is equal, I'd probably buy from a local person first, but it's not close to my top concern.

I think a lot of the anti-Walmart sentiment is misplaced.

[Saulbadguy]

I try not to buy anything anywhere.

:doh!:

[eazyb81]

It appears many people in this thread were sleeping when Smoot-Hawley was discussed in school.

[prhom]

It appears many people in this thread were sleeping when Smoot-Hawley was discussed in school.

Wikipedia better have an entry for Smoot-Hawley or I'm f-ed...

[Brianfo]

I pay about $1.5mil in taxes every year, how about that?

I call bullshit. Dreamer.

[Brianfo]

First of all, you guys realize that the massive trade imbalance between the U.S. and China is because of the sheer volume of crap that we import. Most of the "profit" is retained by the U.S. company that pays a Chinese company 10 cents to make a metal hanger, but sells it to you for 50 cents. We would not import all this stuff if it didn't make economic sense to do so. The fact that we import garlic from China should scare the crap out of us as Americans. Sadly, we have a very inflated opinion of what our time is worth in this country. The only long term solution for us as a nation is to figure out what we're going to export in the future that will be needed by the world as a whole. Someone said earlier in this thread that we should go work for a company that actually produces something, and they're totally right. We have marginalized and trampled the very industries that made us a great country in the first place. But to regain that position we are going to have to get over our pride and get competitive again.

How about agriculture. China is the largest importer of soybeans in the world. They have more mouths to feed than we can imagine and their appetite is only getting larger. Did you watch the Olympics and see the chit that they eat on a daily basis??

[Hammock Parties]

Got $109.95?

[Baby Lee]

Avoiding Wal-Mart in St. Louis is easy, as they refuse to put a store in city limits due to city civil juries. Then they opened one in Richmond Heights, but even it is a hike and all city streets, no quick freeway shot. Plus it is only a couple years old and already smells like a mixture of ass and armageddon. However, I had the misfortune of visiting the Gravois Mills location [just a little further away, in the opposite direction] during my annual pilgramage to buy Christmas gifts people asked for that can only be found at Wal-Mart [effing exclusive music contracts!!]. That place has everything, for instance I had no idea that Wal-Mart had inhoused a line of whole 'exotic' meal kits [Gyros, Thai Lemongrass, Baba Ganoush, Tandoori, etc].

[MahiMike]

Economics 101. Google "absolute advantage" and "comparative advantage". If you feel the need to spend more $$$ on the exact same product, feel free to be an idiot and do such.

WHOA! See that right there is the problem. People are only willing to see the short term one quarter at a time. Now, 80 quarters after it started, we're in a hole we can't dig out of fast enough. Nothing will change for visionless people like you until the goverment imposes 40% tariffs on imports.

[Brianfo]

WHOA! See that right there is the problem. People are only willing to see the short term one quarter at a time. Now, 80 quarters after it started, we're in a hole we can't dig out of fast enough. Nothing will change for visionless people like you until the goverment imposes 40% tariffs on imports.

Agree 100%

[BWillie]

Avoiding Wal-Mart in St. Louis is easy, as they refuse to put a store in city limits due to city civil juries. Then they opened one in Richmond Heights, but even it is a hike and all city streets, no quick freeway shot. Plus it is only a couple years old and already smells like a mixture of ass and armageddon. However, I had the misfortune of visiting the Gravois Mills location [just a little further away, in the opposite direction] during my annual pilgramage to buy Christmas gifts people asked for that can only be found at Wal-Mart [effing exclusive music contracts!!]. That place has everything, for instance I had no idea that Wal-Mart had inhoused a line of whole 'exotic' meal kits [Gyros, Thai Lemongrass, Baba Ganoush, Tandoori, etc].

Nobody actually lives in St Louis in the St Louis metro area anyway, so I doubt Wal-Mart really cares. Kansas City, MO is larger than St Louis, Mo if you are just counting the actual city.

[Saulbadguy]

WHOA! See that right there is the problem. People are only willing to see the short term one quarter at a time. Now, 80 quarters after it started, we're in a hole we can't dig out of fast enough. Nothing will change for visionless people like you until the goverment imposes 40% tariffs on imports.

Visionless? It's common sense. You don't produce products in which you don't have a reason to.

[HMc]

Anyone who thinks a 40% import tariff would provide a net benefit for the country as a whole needs to read a Macroeconomics 101 textbook.

[Saulbadguy]

Anyone who thinks a 40% import tariff would provide a net benefit for the country as a whole needs to read a Macroeconomics 101 textbook.
It would almost be as disastrous as attempting to manufacture all of our own products.

[RJ]

Economics 101. Google "absolute advantage" and "comparative advantage". If you feel the need to spend more $$$ on the exact same product, feel free to be an idiot and do such.


I would agree with you if they were, in fact, the exact same product. But they're not. It's not just a matter of dollars. I will never knowingly feed my daughter food from China. That country treats melamine the way we treat salt and pepper. While there's no guarantee of food safety in our own products, FDA standards do give me a little peace of mind that I'm quite willing to pay for.

As to non-edible products, I can say from personal experience that Chinese flooring - wood and tile - looks as good on American and European made products on the surface, but it's not nearly as good in terms of installation and, I suspect, long term performance. The woods have a lot of warping and bowing in the planks and products with locking systems don't go together very well. The tiles tend to be uneven caliber, which is something you can't see until you've installed a bunch of floor and then wonder why the grout lines run off so much. It's a bitch pulling it out and then fighting to return the product.

So sure, I'm all for saving a few dollars when I can, but not with food and not when I'm going to experience more aggravation than the savings is worth.

[Extra Point]

Anyone who thinks a 40% import tariff would provide a net benefit for the country as a whole needs to read a Macroeconomics 101 textbook.
Yeah, but in micro or macro, the difficult question is "What to produce?"

Thinking in lowest terms:

Food, an appliance to cook the food, an appliance to store the food, and an appliance to carry the food (if not walking). And shelter: an appliance to get rid of the food taken in you, and an appliance for you to rest, so you can leave in your transportation appliance, to hunt and gather, according to the principle of division of labor.

They can't import your home, but what's in it. So what's in it, and what good is it, and what good is what is in it?

Don't forget the communicative appliance, necessary to phone for pizza, and to call in sick to the manager of the division of labor, who keeps bitching at you for not producing according to the rules set down in "The Wealth of Nations."....

[Skip Towne]

It's really not, I agree with you.

In my area we do not have ANY non-chain grocery stores, that I know of. It's Hy-Vee, Dillons (Kroger), or Wal-Mart. Aldi's is an option too I suppose, but F that. No more IGA's in my area, maybe not in this entire city.

The IGA's here in town became Homeland a few years ago.

[Saulbadguy]

I would agree with you if they were, in fact, the exact same product. But they're not. It's not just a matter of dollars. I will never knowingly feed my daughter food from China. That country treats melamine the way we treat salt and pepper. While there's no guarantee of food safety in our own products, FDA standards do give me a little peace of mind that I'm quite willing to pay for.

As to non-edible products, I can say from personal experience that Chinese flooring - wood and tile - looks as good on American and European made products on the surface, but it's not nearly as good in terms of installation and, I suspect, long term performance. The woods have a lot of warping and bowing in the planks and products with locking systems don't go together very well. The tiles tend to be uneven caliber, which is something you can't see until you've installed a bunch of floor and then wonder why the grout lines run off so much. It's a bitch pulling it out and then fighting to return the product.

So sure, I'm all for saving a few dollars when I can, but not with food and not when I'm going to experience more aggravation than the savings is worth.

I'm talking about the exact same product chief, not different ones. You are specifically talking about differing products. (brands)

[PhillyChiefFan]

I don't like to shop at Wal-Mart because of the case studies I did on them in business school.

They screw the manufacturers. They force them to lower their prices, this in turn forces those companies to either A.) lower their production costs B.) lower their production quality or C.) outsource.

That in turn creates job losses, and hurts the economy. Wal-Mart might purchase 75% of a small businesses products, and then that company will come to rely on Wal-Mart after they have grown larger. Then Wal-Mart tightens the screws and says ok...make it cheaper or we aren't doing business with you anymore.

When 75% of your product is being purchased by a company, you most likely will do what you have to do to stay in business with them. That entails job cuts, raw material cuts, and outsourcing.

This is all just my opinion.

[RJ]

I don't like to shop at Walmart because I always feel like killing someone by the time I leave. Not anyone in particular, just in general.

[Bearcat2005]

Anyone who thinks a 40% import tariff would provide a net benefit for the country as a whole needs to read a Macroeconomics 101 textbook.

THIS.


I will ALWAYS buy the most competitive product in regards to price and quality, no matter where it came from. Its alll part of the creative destruction process, and if anyone thinks that by just buying US only products is going to assist the economy they couldn't be more wrong, its a globalized market now and people need to accept that.

[lazepoo]

I don't know what studies show so I'll defer to you. However, I'd rather spend my dollar somewhere I know the profits will benefit a local businessowner rather than sending those dollars to some filthy rich Walton or Blank.

Another thing we should be doing is buying local produce. Not only is it supporting local farmers but it's better for you because it's fresh, not generally genetically enhanced, and is properly ripened to be shipped a few miles rather than picked green to be shipped halfway across the country.

It's amazing what a difference this makes in the taste as well. I didn't realize it until I moved and some of my roommates had a farm share set up where they paid a flat fee at the beginning of the season and received produce every other week. Good stuff, and it ended up being cheaper in the long run than going to the grocery store for veggies and fruit.

[Brock]

THIS.


I will ALWAYS buy the most competitive product in regards to price and quality, no matter where it came from. Its alll part of the creative destruction process, and if anyone thinks that by just buying US only products is going to assist the economy they couldn't be more wrong, its a globalized market now and people need to accept that.

Yes, we need to just accept that American workers are now competing with Chinese prison and child labor. IT'S CALLED LIFE, GET OVER IT

[lazepoo]

I don't like to shop at Wal-Mart because of the case studies I did on them in business school.

They screw the manufacturers. They force them to lower their prices, this in turn forces those companies to either A.) lower their production costs B.) lower their production quality or C.) outsource.

That in turn creates job losses, and hurts the economy. Wal-Mart might purchase 75% of a small businesses products, and then that company will come to rely on Wal-Mart after they have grown larger. Then Wal-Mart tightens the screws and says ok...make it cheaper or we aren't doing business with you anymore.

When 75% of your product is being purchased by a company, you most likely will do what you have to do to stay in business with them. That entails job cuts, raw material cuts, and outsourcing.

This is all just my opinion.

It's not opinion, it's fact. That's how a lot of the big chains operate. They force you to go as low as you possibly can, and then they try to squeeze out a little more. A company I used to work for was negotiating a major deal with Menards and they sent us their demands for pricing. We figured out what it would cost us to make the product, and so based on that, we submitted the lowest possible price. A competitor took the business at the price Menards wanted, and we calculated that they were losing money on the deal. They went belly-up shortly after (although they weren't sitting pretty to begin with) and no one was surprised.

I've spoken with people at other companies as well that did work with Wal Mart and either opted out because of the ludicrous pricing demands or came to rely on Wal Mart for all of their business and had no leverage on pricing as a result. It sucks for them.

On a side note, has anyone noticed Wal Mart trying to clean up their image with a new ad campaign. No more "watch out for falling prices" and obnoxious smiley faces... instead they have that ripoff of an Apple computer powering up logo.

[Mark M]

I don't like to shop at Wal-Mart because of the case studies I did on them in business school.

They screw the manufacturers. They force them to lower their prices, this in turn forces those companies to either A.) lower their production costs B.) lower their production quality or C.) outsource.

That in turn creates job losses, and hurts the economy. Wal-Mart might purchase 75% of a small businesses products, and then that company will come to rely on Wal-Mart after they have grown larger. Then Wal-Mart tightens the screws and says ok...make it cheaper or we aren't doing business with you anymore.

When 75% of your product is being purchased by a company, you most likely will do what you have to do to stay in business with them. That entails job cuts, raw material cuts, and outsourcing.

This is all just my opinion.

I have a very, very close family friend who actually knows Jim Walton through dealing with the company from the 1970s to early 1990s. And while they're one of the most difficult companies to deal with now, they didn't used to be like that.

When the family was still really involved, the were always looking to buy American and helped numerous small companies (our friend's included) make a ton of money.

But once the family sold off their pieces of it and got less involved, it turned into the force it is today -- one in which the "let's play hardball to the point of crushing all in our path" mindset has taken over. They no longer give a crap about helping other businesses or giving a fair deal. It's all about how they can leverage their buying power over their suppliers' heads and force those suppliers to either do what Walmart wants, or be put out of business.

It's disgusting, really, and the reason we shop at Target and Costco.

What's I find sad, though, is that (according the family friend) Jim knows all this and how bad it's hurt the image his father worked so hard to create, but no longer cares. He's got his billions, and whatever happens, so be it.

MM
~~:shrug:

[blueballs]

Go drive a '77 Pinto

[NewChief]

It's amazing what a difference this makes in the taste as well. I didn't realize it until I moved and some of my roommates had a farm share set up where they paid a flat fee at the beginning of the season and received produce every other week. Good stuff, and it ended up being cheaper in the long run than going to the grocery store for veggies and fruit.

The argument that Deep Economy makes is that there is intangible quality of life "value" in buying locally. Local buying grounds you in your community. It makes the purchasing experience meaningful. It builds connections. These connections and sense of community lead to happiness. We've been deprived of this sense of community and belonging by a society that values individualism, self-reliance, and privacy to a pathological level. As a result, we live disconnected lives within our own homes: we don't know our neighbors because our houses are castles. Within our houses, each family member has their own room where they escape into isolation. All of this, according to McKibben, contributes to the general depression and malaise of our society. One solution to this is to go about building community and meaning through local economies.

The view isn't really backward looking or Luddite. It recognizes the reality of Friedman's "Flat earth" theory, but it proposes an alternative direction that we can take besides globalization.

[rockymtnchief]

I try my hardest to buy US and local products. I just bought a knife from The Ontario Knife Company because it was the style I wanted and made in the US. I've also never owned a foreign vehicle, But I'm well aware that a lot of the parts on my Jeep are made over seas.

Also, I've seen the way Wal-Mart works and avoid the place like the plague. What has been posted above me is true. They not only put small retailers out of business, they put the squeeze on manufacturers.