Waiting for Quarterback X

[OnTheWarpath15]

I NEVER thought I'd do this, but this is a pretty solid read from Clayton, once you get past the first 3 paragraphs.

http://kan.scout.com/2/839004.html

By C.E. Wendler
Warpaint Illustrated Columnist
Posted Feb 13, 2009


Two weeks ago, before the Chiefs hired Todd Haley and no one had a clue who the next head coach of the Kansas City Chiefs would be, Warpaint Illustrated Publisher Nick Athan spoke of a trifecta. With Scott Pioli secured and Derrick Thomas selected, two thirds of Nick’s hat trick were in the bag.

The final third, head coach Bill Cowher, never materialized. Nick and the rest of Kansas City’s Cowher-lovers may be disappointed, but there’s another, far more important trifecta the Chiefs need to complete to move forward as an organization.

Pioli obviously fills the first slot. While Todd Haley is not Mike Shanahan, my own fantasy crafted in the Cowher mold, it’s tough to complain about any 41-year old with such a decorated offensive resume. Besides, for all we know, Haley is the next Shanahan (thankfully Clark Hunt is not the next Al Davis).

All that remains is Quarterback X.

No one knows who Quarterback X is. He could be a sophomore in college right now. Maybe he’s preparing for the NFL combine. He could even be sitting on some other NFL roster, waiting for his shot at stardom.

But just as no one really knew who Pioli would hire as head coach, Quarterback X remains an equal, and perhaps even more convoluted mystery. When you consider the quarterback history of Pioli and Haley, you are left with a trend that is not a trend. There is no distinguishable pattern.

Starting with his days in Cleveland as a Pro Personnel Assistant, Pioli’s quarterback chronology reads as follows: Bernie Kosar, Mike Tomczak, Vinny Testaverde, Neil O’Donnell, Vinny Testaverde, Ray Lucas, Drew Bledsoe, Tom Brady, Matt Cassel. Starting with his days as a wide receivers coach in Chicago, Haley’s quarterback chronology reads as follows: Jim Miller, Chris Chandler, Kordell Stewart, Chad Hutchinson, Craig Krenzel, Jonathan Quinn, Rex Grossman, Drew Bledsoe, Tony Romo, Matt Leinart, Kurt Warner.

While the list is comprised of mostly veteran passers, there is the Ray Lucas here, the Tom Brady there, and a Chad Hutchinson thrown in for good measure that makes you wonder just what the hell was going on. When you factor in the most important piece of data – neither Pioli or Haley were the chief decision makers in regards to the quarterback position – it becomes quite clear: it is abundantly unclear who Quarterback X will be, where he will come from, when he will arrive (consider the possibility that Pioli and Haley may not like Georgia’s Matt Stafford or USC’s Mark Sanchez), and perhaps most importantly, if the average fan will have even heard of him.

What we do know, based purely on the last meaningful NFL game of 2009, is that Quarterback X needs to be more Bledsoe than O’Donnell, more Romo than Kosar.

The Super Bowl taught us that there is no substitute for a great quarterback. Like two great prizefighters, Ben Roethlisberger and Kurt Warner traded blows for four quarters. First it was Roethlisberger, landing a vicious right hook early in the game with 140 yards of offense in two drives. Perhaps staggered, but not to be outdone, Warner rose from his feet and struck back with a touchdown in the second quarter and then dazed Big Ben with a flurry of body shots in the fourth quarter – 151 yards of offense in 10 plays.

Finally, the Two-Time Heavyweight Champion Quarterback of the World, Roethlisberger, landed a knockout punch, concluding the duel of great quarterbacks.

And that’s just what Super Bowl XLIII was: two franchise passers, standing nose to nose, giving the other all he could handle. The Steelers and Cardinals combined for 91 yards on the ground and six rushing first downs. Both defenses had their moments, but ultimately failed to do their jobs in the fourth quarter.

Forget all the garbage about defense and running games that Herm Edwards and company spoon-fed Kansas City the last three years. Get a quarterback, or get used to being beaten by teams that have one. By now, Chiefs fans should know this well: Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Stan Humphries, Jim Harbaugh, John Elway and Peyton Manning. These are the quarterbacks who eliminated Kansas City from the playoffs during the Carl Peterson era, and take one guess what happened to Humphries and Harbaugh in the next round.

Where the Chiefs’ great quarterback, their prizefighter, now lurks we leave up to Pioli and Haley, but this much is obvious: he is not on Kansas City’s roster. While Tyler Thigpen may have been fun to watch in some ways last season, he should be considered more “ex-quarterback” than Quarterback X.

Ask yourself this question: what does Thigpen do well? All franchise quarterbacks have at least one definable trait that makes every onlooker stand up and say, “Wow.” Roethlisberger possesses uncanny ability to improvise. Warner has Hall-of-Fame caliber accuracy and anticipation.

Maybe we shouldn’t compare Thigpen to Super Bowl quarterbacks. In that case, look at the AFC West, to Jay Cutler and Philip Rivers. The first has almost incomparable arm strength. The second succeeds despite his relative lack of physical talent, but can still pick a mosquito off KC Wolf from 40 yards out.

Thigpen? We cannot call him accurate, cannot compare his arm to the elite, and cannot call him a winner. His 40 time is impressive for a quarterback, just not impressive enough to win games, evidently.

And we shouldn’t soon forget what Cutler did to Thigpen at Mile High last season (32 of 40, 24-17 victory), or what Rivers did in the waning minutes a week later (34 of 48, 22-21 victory), given an opportunity gifted by Dwayne Bowe. The key point – in both instances, while Thigpen did almost nothing in the second half, Cutler and Rivers seized the opportunity and the victory.

Still, you might say, Thigpen’s statistics (11 starts, 18 touchdowns, 2,608 yards) compare so favorably to those of the Lombardi winner, Roethlisberger (13 starts, 17 touchdowns, 2,621 yards). Perhaps all that really separates one from the other is the NFL’s top-ranked defense?

Perhaps. But then again, there is one more 2008 statistic to consider: game-tying or game-winning drives in the fourth quarter or overtime.

Roethlisberger, six. Thigpen, zero.

Ask yourself one more question: Do you really want to see a Tyler Thigpen-led Chiefs team facing off against Roethlisberger, Cutler, Rivers, Peyton Manning or Tom Brady in future AFC playoff games? Regardless of the strength of the rest of the team, is that really a scenario you feel confident walking into?

If not, wait for Quarterback X, and the completion of the real trifecta.

[Goapics1]

Quarterback X = Thigpen.

[Demonpenz]

I NEVER thought I'd do this, but this is a pretty solid read from Clayton, once you get past the first 3 paragraphs.

http://kan.scout.com/2/839004.html

By C.E. Wendler
Warpaint Illustrated Columnist
Posted Feb 13, 2009


Two weeks ago, before the Chiefs hired Todd Haley and no one had a clue who the next head coach of the Kansas City Chiefs would be, Warpaint Illustrated Publisher Nick "Assclown" Athan spoke of a trifecta. With Scott Pioli secured and Derrick Thomas selected, two thirds of Nick’s hat trick were in the bag.

The final third, head coach Bill Cowher, never materialized. Nick and the rest of Kansas City’s Cowher-lovers may be disappointed, but there’s another, far more important trifecta the Chiefs need to complete to move forward as an organization.

Pioli obviously fills the first slot. While Todd Haley is not Mike Shanahan, my own fantasy crafted in the Cowher mold, it’s tough to complain about any 41-year old with such a decorated offensive resume. Besides, for all we know, Haley is the next Shanahan (thankfully Clark Hunt is not the next Al Davis).

All that remains is Quarterback X.

No one knows who Quarterback X is. He could be a sophomore in college right now. Maybe he’s preparing for the NFL combine. He could even be sitting on some other NFL roster, waiting for his shot at stardom.

But just as no one really knew who Pioli would hire as head coach, Quarterback X remains an equal, and perhaps even more convoluted mystery. When you consider the quarterback history of Pioli and Haley, you are left with a trend that is not a trend. There is no distinguishable pattern.

Starting with his days in Cleveland as a Pro Personnel Assistant, Pioli’s quarterback chronology reads as follows: Bernie Kosar, Mike Tomczak, Vinny Testaverde, Neil O’Donnell, Vinny Testaverde, Ray Lucas, Drew Bledsoe, Tom Brady, Matt Cassel. Starting with his days as a wide receivers coach in Chicago, Haley’s quarterback chronology reads as follows: Jim Miller, Chris Chandler, Kordell Stewart, Chad Hutchinson, Craig Krenzel, Jonathan Quinn, Rex Grossman, Drew Bledsoe, Tony Romo, Matt Leinart, Kurt Warner.

While the list is comprised of mostly veteran passers, there is the Ray Lucas here, the Tom Brady there, and a Chad Hutchinson thrown in for good measure that makes you wonder just what the hell was going on. When you factor in the most important piece of data – neither Pioli or Haley were the chief decision makers in regards to the quarterback position – it becomes quite clear: it is abundantly unclear who Quarterback X will be, where he will come from, when he will arrive (consider the possibility that Pioli and Haley may not like Georgia’s Matt Stafford or USC’s Mark Sanchez), and perhaps most importantly, if the average fan will have even heard of him.

What we do know, based purely on the last meaningful NFL game of 2009, is that Quarterback X needs to be more Bledsoe than O’Donnell, more Romo than Kosar.

The Super Bowl taught us that there is no substitute for a great quarterback. Like two great prizefighters, Ben Roethlisberger and Kurt Warner traded blows for four quarters. First it was Roethlisberger, landing a vicious right hook early in the game with 140 yards of offense in two drives. Perhaps staggered, but not to be outdone, Warner rose from his feet and struck back with a touchdown in the second quarter and then dazed Big Ben with a flurry of body shots in the fourth quarter – 151 yards of offense in 10 plays.

Finally, the Two-Time Heavyweight Champion Quarterback of the World, Roethlisberger, landed a knockout punch, concluding the duel of great quarterbacks.

And that’s just what Super Bowl XLIII was: two franchise passers, standing nose to nose, giving the other all he could handle. The Steelers and Cardinals combined for 91 yards on the ground and six rushing first downs. Both defenses had their moments, but ultimately failed to do their jobs in the fourth quarter.

Forget all the garbage about defense and running games that Herm Edwards and company spoon-fed Kansas City the last three years. Get a quarterback, or get used to being beaten by teams that have one. By now, Chiefs fans should know this well: Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Stan Humphries, Jim Harbaugh, John Elway and Peyton Manning. These are the quarterbacks who eliminated Kansas City from the playoffs during the Carl Peterson era, and take one guess what happened to Humphries and Harbaugh in the next round.

Where the Chiefs’ great quarterback, their prizefighter, now lurks we leave up to Pioli and Haley, but this much is obvious: he is not on Kansas City’s roster. While Tyler Thigpen may have been fun to watch in some ways last season, he should be considered more “ex-quarterback” than Quarterback X.

Ask yourself this question: what does Thigpen do well? All franchise quarterbacks have at least one definable trait that makes every onlooker stand up and say, “Wow.” Roethlisberger possesses uncanny ability to improvise. Warner has Hall-of-Fame caliber accuracy and anticipation.

Maybe we shouldn’t compare Thigpen to Super Bowl quarterbacks. In that case, look at the AFC West, to Jay Cutler and Philip Rivers. The first has almost incomparable arm strength. The second succeeds despite his relative lack of physical talent, but can still pick a mosquito off KC Wolf from 40 yards out.

Thigpen? We cannot call him accurate, cannot compare his arm to the elite, and cannot call him a winner. His 40 time is impressive for a quarterback, just not impressive enough to win games, evidently.

And we shouldn’t soon forget what Cutler did to Thigpen at Mile High last season (32 of 40, 24-17 victory), or what Rivers did in the waning minutes a week later (34 of 48, 22-21 victory), given an opportunity gifted by Dwayne Bowe. The key point – in both instances, while Thigpen did almost nothing in the second half, Cutler and Rivers seized the opportunity and the victory.

Still, you might say, Thigpen’s statistics (11 starts, 18 touchdowns, 2,608 yards) compare so favorably to those of the Lombardi winner, Roethlisberger (13 starts, 17 touchdowns, 2,621 yards). Perhaps all that really separates one from the other is the NFL’s top-ranked defense?

Perhaps. But then again, there is one more 2008 statistic to consider: game-tying or game-winning drives in the fourth quarter or overtime.

Roethlisberger, six. Thigpen, zero.

Ask yourself one more question: Do you really want to see a Tyler Thigpen-led Chiefs team facing off against Roethlisberger, Cutler, Rivers, Peyton Manning or Tom Brady in future AFC playoff games? Regardless of the strength of the rest of the team, is that really a scenario you feel confident walking into?

If not, wait for Quarterback X, and the completion of the real trifecta.

:Clap:

[Mr. Flopnuts]

That's the best article I've ever read from that site. Hands down. Great fuckin job Clay.

[Mr. Laz]

lemme guess .. it says thigpen sucks and we must draft a quarterback


you've been screaming this at the top of your lungs for months ..... why should i need to read that same shit again?

[FloridaMan88]

An entire manifesto to conclude what every rational Chiefs fan has realized for much of the Dictator Carl era... the Chiefs need a franchise QB.

Wargarbage Illustrated is good for two things... reporting rumors that don't become true and producing articles and columns that state the obvious. If Fox Sports/Scout.com wasn't propping them up Wargarbage Illustrated would be history.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

lemme guess .. it says thigpen sucks and we must draft a quarterback


you've been screaming this at the top of your lungs for months ..... why should i need to read that same shit again?

He doesn't say we should draft a qb. He just says we need one. A real one.

[Goapics1]

BTW, it is a decent article. That POS should post on here so I can give him some positive rep for once.

[bkkcoh]

How many 4th quarter come backs would he have if the defense hadn't choked away the victory.

[Gonzo]

lemme guess .. it says thigpen sucks and we must draft a quarterback


you've been screaming this at the top of your lungs for months ..... why should i need to read that same shit again?

Pretty much

[the Talking Can]

thanks, I had no idea how to get to wpi...it's great to have it brought over here it's minions...

[Chiefnj2]

You can't ask a first year starting QB to throw that much and win games for you. That's the situation KC kept putting Thigpen in. If you look at Ryan and Flacco's numbers, they match Thigpen's when they were asked to throw a lot and carry the team. I'm not saying Thigpen is good, I'm just pointing out that the analysis Clayton uses is flawed.

[DeezNutz]

You can't ask a first year starting QB to throw that much and win games for you. That's the situation KC kept putting Thigpen in. If you look at Ryan and Flacco's numbers, they match Thigpen's when they were asked to throw a lot and carry the team. I'm not saying Thigpen is good, I'm just pointing out that the analysis Clayton uses is flawed.

And Ryan and Flacco operated out of the same type of offensive sets.

The pistol is going to be all the rage. It's so dynamic...so many options...very successful.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Ask yourself one more question: Do you really want to see a Tyler Thigpen-led Chiefs team facing off against Roethlisberger, Cutler, Rivers, Peyton Manning or Tom Brady in future AFC playoff games? Regardless of the strength of the rest of the team, is that really a scenario you feel confident walking into?

If not, wait for Quarterback X, and the completion of the real trifecta. __________________

I'm sending a Playboy Bunny to cuddle with you. Good Job! And Rep!

[ChiefRon]

How many 4th quarter come backs would he have if the defense hadn't choked away the victory.

How many games did we lose by 7 points or less?

A real QB should win more than 1 of those close games. If your defense keeps you within 7 points, you should be able to pull out a victory in at least some of those.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

How many 4th quarter come backs would he have if the defense hadn't choked away the victory.

Look at this.
Look at how stupid you are.

[Reerun_KC]

How many 4th quarter come backs would he have if the defense hadn't choked away the victory.

How many times in the 4th Qtr, did we need the QB to make a play to keep a drive going and he failed leaving it all on the defense??

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Quarterback at number 2, sitting on bench = Thigpen.

FYP.

lemme guess .. it says thigpen sucks and we must draft a quarterback


you've been screaming this at the top of your lungs for months ..... why should i need to read that same shit again?

Because it's not getting through your thick fucking skull perhaps?


And Ryan and Flacco operated out of the same type of offensive sets.

The pistol is going to be all the rage. It's so dynamic...so many options...very successful.

Yes! This! It's so fucking awesome, I can't wait to don a Spit Bubble, Super Hero of True Fans costume, and dance the Hokey Pokey with a carrot up my ass!

How many games did we lose by 7 points or less?

A real QB should win more than 1 of those close games. If your defense keeps you within 7 points, you should be able to pull out a victory in at least some of those.

Exactly! Total shit in clutch situations. To the bench, number 4!

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Look at this.
Look at how stupid you are.

It's time for the full-on purging assault. No more nonsense from these tools. No more!:thumb:

[Mr. Flopnuts]

It's time for the full-on purging assault. No more nonsense from these tools. No more!:thumb:

Have you ever done porn? You really have that classic porn look.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Have you ever done porn? You really have that classic porn look.

No, but I definitely have the equipment for it! :LOL:

[Mr. Flopnuts]

No, but I definitely have the equipment for it! :LOL:

Oh. Cause a lot of times they look for guys with small members to make the viewer feel more adequete. Good on you for admitting though brah. Good on you. ;)

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Meh, I'm off to do some shopping and chores, but I look forward to continuing this; it's wartime.

[OnTheWarpath15]

lemme guess .. it says thigpen sucks and we must draft a quarterback


you've been screaming this at the top of your lungs for months ..... why should i need to read that same shit again?

Hey, look everyone!

Laz is making an ass of himself again!

It doesn't say that at all, and had you read it instead of trying to be a smartass, you would have realized that.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Meh, I'm off to do some shopping and chores, but I look forward to continuing this; it's wartime.

I was hoping for more of a reaction than that. Oh well, I tried.

[OnTheWarpath15]

You can't ask a first year starting QB to throw that much and win games for you. That's the situation KC kept putting Thigpen in. If you look at Ryan and Flacco's numbers, they match Thigpen's when they were asked to throw a lot and carry the team. I'm not saying Thigpen is good, I'm just pointing out that the analysis Clayton uses is flawed.

Uh, Thigpen put himself in that position bt not being capable of playing in a pro style offense.

You can't use the Pistol as an excuse for him, when HE is the reason you're running the fucking gimmick.

[OnTheWarpath15]

thanks, I had no idea how to get to wpi...it's great to have it brought over here it's minions...

An entire manifesto to conclude what every rational Chiefs fan has realized for much of the Dictator Carl era... the Chiefs need a franchise QB.

Wargarbage Illustrated is good for two things... reporting rumors that don't become true and producing articles and columns that state the obvious. If Fox Sports/Scout.com wasn't propping them up Wargarbage Illustrated would be history.

Dude, you can say it states the obvious, but look around here.

It's FAR from obvious to MUCH of the fanbase.

If this article was written by someone else, you'd both be talking about how good it is.

Because Clayton wrote it, your personal agenda button pops out, and you go on the attack.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Why is it that Thigpen always gets the hogshit excuse of being a rookie. He's not. He was a second year player.

[Chiefnj2]

Uh, Thigpen put himself in that position bt not being capable of playing in a pro style offense.

You can't use the Pistol as an excuse for him, when HE is the reason you're running the ****ing gimmick.

You don't think the OL played a role in the switch in their inability to keep Croyle and Huard healthy?

It's not an excuse. It looks like a fact that when you place the burden on young QB's they will usually fail. KC often completely abandoned the run in the 2nd half of games even if it was going well in the first half.

[Demonpenz]

lemme guess .. it says thigpen sucks and we must draft a quarterback


you've been screaming this at the top of your lungs for months ..... why should i need to read that same shit again?

Nail on head :clap:

[ChiefsCountry]

You don't think the OL played a role in the switch in their inability to keep Croyle and Huard healthy?


Considering there was more sacks per attempt when they went to the spread, no.

[DeezNutz]

You don't think the OL played a role in the switch in their inability to keep Croyle and Huard healthy?

It's not an excuse. It looks like a fact that when you place the burden on young QB's they will usually fail. KC often completely abandoned the run in the 2nd half of games even if it was going well in the first half.

The Secret ****ing Service couldn't protect Croyle. He's made of glass.

Huard read his name in this post and assumed the fetal.

Quit using these worthless pieces of shit as points of comparison.

[Just Passin' By]

Just as an FYI regarding quarterback "X". Here's Pat Kirwan's current take. He's doing a chat at NFL.com:


Do you think that Matt Stafford and Mark Sanchez will both be taken in the top ten and who will make the biggest impact?

Pat Kirwan, NFL.com
Tony, I have concerns about both young QBs. Both are underclassmen and the success rate for junior QBs is well below 50 percent. Both are going to measure slightly under 6-foot-3, not optimum for the position. Stafford has some inconsistencies with accuracy. Sanchez does not have enough game experience. That being said, I think Stafford is gone in the Top 10, and Sanchez closer to 10 but maybe a little lower than that.

[beach tribe]

Yeah, seriously. Well done Clay.

[beach tribe]

Just as an FYI regarding quarterback "X". Here's Pat Kirwan's current take. He's doing a chat at NFL.com:

Just FYI, Stafford does not make it past three. Bank on it.

[Chiefnj2]

The Secret ****ing Service couldn't protect Croyle. He's made of glass.

Huard read his name in this post and assumed the fetal.

Quit using these worthless pieces of shit as points of comparison.

You think the offensive line did a good job in the first half of the year? I guess you'll be happy if the same OL returns next year.

[DeezNutz]

You think the offensive line did a good job in the first half of the year? I guess you'll be happy if the same OL returns next year.

Of course it can be improved. But don't use the Amazing Glass Man and Captain Fetal to make your point.

Thigpen must have been Superman to withstand the abuse he took. Amazing. Strongest man in the fucking league.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Considering there was more sacks per attempt when they went to the spread, no.

The Secret ****ing Service couldn't protect Croyle. He's made of glass.

Huard read his name in this post and assumed the fetal.

Quit using these worthless pieces of shit as points of comparison.

This.

And this.

[dirk digler]

sellout



:D

[Fritz88]

Good read. But it's important to note that the entire team on both sides of the ball collapses during the second half. Not only Tyler. It's a dilemma that we had all year. If we overcome that, we may view things differently.

[BigRock]

If this article was written by someone else, you'd both be talking about how good it is.

And if it was written about a QB other than Thigpen, the people praising it would be pointing out what a piece of shit it is.

I'm no Thigpen supporter, but the guy was making the first starts of his NFL career last year. And he was doing so in an offense the team was learning on the fly.

Trying to make a valid comparision between Thigpen and Cutler, who's been a starter for two and a half years, is laughable. Comparing Thigpen to Rivers, even moreso. Comparing Thigpen to Ben F'N Roethlisberger is downright hysterical. We're seriously supposed to learn something from the fact that Ben, a Super Bowl winning QB (not even counting this year), had more game-winning drives?

Why not compare Thigpen to Manning? Or Elway or Montana? It makes as much sense.

If this was written about Stafford or Sanchez 10 starts into their careers, it would be laughed off the board. But because it trashes Thigpen, it's a brilliant analysis?

Come on.

[DeezNutz]

And he was doing so in an offense the team was learning on the fly.


And why was this the case?

[Demonpenz]

This.

And this.

This shit pisses me off. If jamal charles learns how to pick up a block we aren't talking about any of this shit. You need a good line to win at this level. It isn't hard to figure that out. If you hitch your wagon to a horse, but your horse sucks WTF do you think happens to the ****ing wagon. Not shit. So People in here need to take a **** seditive, TYLANOL PM, or just hit themselves over the head with a mother ****ing brick it doesn't matter anymore. you either like it or you don't but you damn sure better learn to love it

[BigRock]

And why was this the case?

Who cares?

[CoMoChief]

How many games did we lose by 7 points or less?

A real QB should win more than 1 of those close games. If your defense keeps you within 7 points, you should be able to pull out a victory in at least some of those.

Uhhh we were ahead in many of those games, the the defense LOST it for us. I wouldnt exactly call that "defense keeping it within 7 pts"

NOTHING pissed me off more than the SD game. TB game and the Jets game also pissed me off but that SD game was a fuckin heartbreaker to fuckin have the defense piss their pants like that.

[ChiefRon]

Good read. But it's important to note that the entire team on both sides of the ball collapses during the second half. Not only Tyler. It's a dilemma that we had all year. If we overcome that, we may view things differently.

How many games did we lose by 7 points or less?

How about this: How many times should a franchise-caliber QB win the close games?

While I agree QB wasn't the sole reason we collapsed in the 2nd half, I also put a lot of the blame on Thigpen getting worse as the situation became more critical.

He chokes, consistently.

[DeezNutz]

Who cares?

Well, it's fairly important in trying to evaluate Thigpen as a serious NFL quarterback.

[ChiefRon]

Uhhh we were ahead in many of those games, the the defense LOST it for us. I wouldnt exactly call that "defense keeping it within 7 pts"

NOTHING pissed me off more than the SD game. TB game and the Jets game also pissed me off but that SD game was a ****in heartbreaker to ****in have the defense piss their pants like that.

And if Thigpen could have come through and not go three & out, we could have scored a touchdown instead of a FG try.

[OnTheWarpath15]

And if it was written about a QB other than Thigpen, the people praising it would be pointing out what a piece of shit it is.

I'm no Thigpen supporter, but the guy was making the first starts of his NFL career last year. And he was doing so in an offense the team was learning on the fly.

Trying to make a valid comparision between Thigpen and Cutler, who's been a starter for two and a half years, is laughable. Comparing Thigpen to Rivers, even moreso. Comparing Thigpen to Ben F'N Roethlisberger is downright hysterical. We're seriously supposed to learn something from the fact that Ben, a Super Bowl winning QB (not even counting this year), had more game-winning drives?

Why not compare Thigpen to Manning? Or Elway or Montana? It makes as much sense.

If this was written about Stafford or Sanchez 10 starts into their careers, it would be laughed off the board. But because it trashes Thigpen, it's a brilliant analysis?

Come on.

I guess you can't see that Stafford and Sanchez have potential in a REAL, pro-style offense, where Tyler Thigpen needs a fucking gimmick and 2 injuries to get on the field?

Had Thigpen came in and had that kind of success in a real offense, you may have a point.

For sake of conversation, compare Thigpen to the players listed above as prospects coming out of college.

All the attributes still apply.

They are all the things Thigpen isn't, even when you take their pro experience away and judge them as they were judged coming out of college.

Again, it comes back to a simple point:

Do you think Tyler Thigpen is capable of leading a team to a championship?

Take any of the SB winners of the past few years.

Do they even GET to the SB, much less win it with Tyler Thigpen at his full potential?

[BigRock]

Well, it's fairly important in trying to evaluate Thigpen as a serious NFL quarterback.

I'm not interested in evaluating Thigpen as a serious NFL quarterback. I'm interested in evaluating the medication of the people praising this article.

A better column on Thigpen might have touched on the subject you're speaking to, rather than comparing his amount of game winning drives to a guy with two Super Bowl rings.

[Fritz88]

And if it was written about a QB other than Thigpen, the people praising it would be pointing out what a piece of shit it is.

I'm no Thigpen supporter, but the guy was making the first starts of his NFL career last year. And he was doing so in an offense the team was learning on the fly.

Trying to make a valid comparision between Thigpen and Cutler, who's been a starter for two and a half years, is laughable. Comparing Thigpen to Rivers, even moreso. Comparing Thigpen to Ben F'N Roethlisberger is downright hysterical. We're seriously supposed to learn something from the fact that Ben, a Super Bowl winning QB (not even counting this year), had more game-winning drives?

Why not compare Thigpen to Manning? Or Elway or Montana? It makes as much sense.

If this was written about Stafford or Sanchez 10 starts into their careers, it would be laughed off the board. But because it trashes Thigpen, it's a brilliant analysis?

Come on.

:clap:

[Sam Hall]

somebody make it stop

[DeezNutz]

A better column on Thigpen might have touched on the subject you're speaking to, rather than comparing his amount of game winning drives to a guy with two Super Bowl rings.

Fair enough.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

I'm not interested in evaluating Thigpen as a serious NFL quarterback. I'm interested in evaluating the medication of the people praising this article.

A better column on Thigpen might have touched on the subject you're speaking to, rather than comparing his amount of game winning drives to a guy who has done what we hope to do.

FYP

[BigRock]

I guess you can't see that Stafford and Sanchez have potential in a REAL, pro-style offense, where Tyler Thigpen needs a ****ing gimmick and 2 injuries to get on the field?

What on earth does that have to do with the price of tea in Chyna?

If, ten starts into their career, someone wrote an article about Stafford or Sanchez saying "He can't get it done at the end of the game. How many game-winning drives does he have? NONE. Look at all the QBs with years of experience who are better than him. He sucks!" it would be mocked and derided for weeks on end.

And rightfully so because it would be retarded. Much as this is.

I'm not disagreeing with anything you're saying about Thigpen. But how much of what you're saying about pro offenses and all this was in the article you're praising? The article tells us that Thigpen sucks because we've seen him start for about a half-season, and he's not as good as guys who've been playing for years, so he's worthless and should die.

There's a lot of arguments one could make against Thigpen. That isn't really one of 'em.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

What on earth does that have to do with the price of tea in Chyna?

If, ten starts into their career, someone wrote an article about Stafford or Sanchez saying "He can't get it done at the end of the game. How many game-winning drives does he have? NONE. Look at all the QBs with years of experience who are better than him. He sucks!" it would be mocked and derided for weeks on end.

And rightfully so because it would be retarded. Much as this is.

I'm not disagreeing with anything you're saying about Thigpen. But how much of what you're saying about pro offenses and all this was in the article you're praising? The article tells us that Thigpen sucks because we've seen him start for about a half-season, and he's not as good as guys who've been playing for years, so he's worthless and should die.

There's a lot of arguments one could make against Thigpen. That isn't really one of 'em.



Last I heard Sean Waltman was trying to get back into Chyna.

[OnTheWarpath15]

What on earth does that have to do with the price of tea in Chyna?

If, ten starts into their career, someone wrote an article about Stafford or Sanchez saying "He can't get it done at the end of the game. How many game-winning drives does he have? NONE. Look at all the QBs with years of experience who are better than him. He sucks!" it would be mocked and derided for weeks on end.

And rightfully so because it would be retarded.

You're right. THAT article WOULD be retarded.

Because it would be stupid to bash an elite talent 10 games in.

I don't think it's the same thing with a guy that is FAR from an eilte talent, can't play in a pro offense and is someone we shouldn't be committed to for 10 minutes, much less 10 games.

I'm not saying it deserves a fucking Pulitzer, but it gets the point across.

We need a franchise QB.

Agree to disagree.

[keg in kc]

Last I heard Sean Waltman was trying to get back into Chyna.Thanks for that mental image.

[Fritz88]

This may be relevant to our topic here.

National Football Post's two round mock draft. Has Stafford falling to 10 and Sanchez to 17!!

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AodO73rEEtmGvT1U1fiJa585nYcB?slug=ys-mockdraft020909&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

[Chiefnj2]

You're right. THAT article WOULD be retarded.

Because it would be stupid to bash an elite talent 10 games in.

I don't think it's the same thing with a guy that is FAR from an eilte talent, can't play in a pro offense and is someone we shouldn't be committed to for 10 minutes, much less 10 games.

I'm not saying it deserves a ****ing Pulitzer, but it gets the point across.

We need a franchise QB.

Agree to disagree.

Would you have preferred if Quin Gray played instead of Thigpen?

[keg in kc]

This may be relevant to our topic here.

National Football Post's two round mock draft. Has Stafford falling to 10 and Sanchez to 17!!

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AodO73rEEtmGvT1U1fiJa585nYcB?slug=ys-mockdraft020909&prov=yhoo&type=lgnsI saw a mock yesterday that had Curry (!!!) going first, Stafford going to us, and Sanchez not going until 22 or 23.

So apparently somebody thinks Millen's still running things in Detroit.

[ChiefRon]

This may be relevant to our topic here.

National Football Post's two round mock draft. Has Stafford falling to 10 and Sanchez to 17!!

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AodO73rEEtmGvT1U1fiJa585nYcB?slug=ys-mockdraft020909&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

And this is the top 3 analysis from that:
1. Detroit Lions: Andre Smith, OT, Alabama
As badly as the Lions need to find a franchise quarterback, we simply can’t see them investing No. 1-type money in anything other than a top offensive lineman. Smith is a dominant run blocker with great body control and feet for the position. He looks like one of the safest picks in this year’s draft.

2. St. Louis Rams: Eugene Monroe, OT, Virginia
With all the trouble St. Louis has had keeping QB Marc Bulger clean in the pocket the past couple of years, offensive tackle looks like the only viable option. Monroe has the body control and overall athleticism to anchor the left side for many years.

3. Kansas City Chiefs: Aaron Curry, OLB, Wake Forest
New GM Scott Pioli isn’t likely to take unnecessary chances during the first couple of months of his regime. Curry is one of the country’s top prospects and adds not only a legitimate defensive playmaker but a lot of versatility for Pioli to build around.

Fucking worthless, move along...

[OnTheWarpath15]

Would you have preferred if Quin Gray played instead of Thigpen?

Makes no difference to me. Neither are anything resembling the answer. Last year was a wasted season the minute Croyle confirmed he couldn't stay healthy.

Grey would have made the fans happy, there's no doubt in my mind we would have won more than 1 game with him at the helm.

[OnTheWarpath15]

And this is the top 3 analysis from that:
1. Detroit Lions: Andre Smith, OT, Alabama
As badly as the Lions need to find a franchise quarterback, we simply can’t see them investing No. 1-type money in anything other than a top offensive lineman. Smith is a dominant run blocker with great body control and feet for the position. He looks like one of the safest picks in this year’s draft.

2. St. Louis Rams: Eugene Monroe, OT, Virginia
With all the trouble St. Louis has had keeping QB Marc Bulger clean in the pocket the past couple of years, offensive tackle looks like the only viable option. Monroe has the body control and overall athleticism to anchor the left side for many years.

3. Kansas City Chiefs: Aaron Curry, OLB, Wake Forest
New GM Scott Pioli isn’t likely to take unnecessary chances during the first couple of months of his regime. Curry is one of the country’s top prospects and adds not only a legitimate defensive playmaker but a lot of versatility for Pioli to build around.

Fucking worthless, move along...

ROFL

Unnecessary chances.

Yeah, because Curry is a stone-cold-motherfucking-lock.

[Chiefnj2]

Neither are anything resembling the answer.

Sanchez and Stafford won't be the answer either if people are going to write them off after less than a season's worth of starts on a horrible team.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I saw a mock yesterday that had Curry (!!!) going first, Stafford going to us, and Sanchez not going until 22 or 23.

So apparently somebody thinks Millen's still running things in Detroit.

Or they ate too many paint chips as a kid.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Sanchez and Stafford won't be the answer either if people are going to write them off after less than a season's worth of starts on a horrible team.

Dear God.

You understand the term "potential", correct? They have it. Thigpen doesn't.

But please, feel free to light a candle for Tyler if you feel I have wronged him.

The only people that will be bashing Stafford/Sanchez 10 games in are the people that are adamant that you don't need a franchise QB.

[BigRock]

Last I heard Sean Waltman was trying to get back into Chyna.

Last I heard of his wheelin' and dealin', he was hooked up with Ryan Shamrock.

[BigRock]

You're right. THAT article WOULD be retarded.

Because it would be stupid to bash an elite talent 10 games in.

It's retarded to bash anyone 10 games in when we're talking about a league where a grocery bagger has been in 3 Super Bowls. If having "elite talent" coming out of college was the judge on whether somebody was worth anything, there's hundreds of guys with great careers who never would have had a chance.

Obviously I'm not saying Thigpen is one of them, and I'm coming off way harsher on Claythan than I mean to. I like his stuff. But since the entire article is about the premise that Thigpen isn't the guy, and since people who I find to be intelligent and informed posters were holding it up, I expected better logic on Thigpen than something WPI posters could pick apart.

[Chiefnj2]

Someone tell the Cowboys they screwed up with Aikman. He didn't have any come from behind victories his first year and he had stats much worse than Thigpen.

[DeezNutz]

It's retarded to bash anyone 10 games in.

Normally, I would completely agree with this statement.

But when an NFL team has to prop up a weakly constructed facade to allow a player to be on the field, then it's pretty obvious he had no business being there in the first place. Doesn't matter if you give him 10 games or 10 years.

Do you remember how scared shitless everyone was going into the Jets game b/c of how Thigpen performed in Atlanta? There was a reason why people felt like this, and it was the same reason why the Pistol was yanked out of Gailey's as...er, bag of tricks.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Normally, I would completely agree with this statement.

But when an NFL team has to prop up a weakly constructed facade to allow a player to be on the field, then it's pretty obvious he had no business being there in the first place. Doesn't matter if you give him 10 games or 10 years.

Do you remember how scared shitless everyone was going into the Jets game b/c of how Thigpen performed in Atlanta? There was a reason why people felt like this, and it was the same reason why the Pistol was yanked out of Gailey's as...er, bag of tricks.

This.

[whoman69]

How many games did we lose by 7 points or less?

A real QB should win more than 1 of those close games. If your defense keeps you within 7 points, you should be able to pull out a victory in at least some of those.

Not if your defense loses it for you.

Thigpen can be an adequate backup. Thigpen can be a plug-in until our real QB is ready. I would find it hard to believe that anyone believes Thigpen can be a playoff QB given his inability to run a real offense that isn't one dimensional.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Someone tell the Cowboys they screwed up with Aikman. He didn't have any come from behind victories his first year and he had stats much worse than Thigpen.

Yet he had everything that Thigpen doesn't, and it all falls under the umbrella of Elite Talent.

You know, physical tools, intelligence, ability to read defenses, playing in a pro style offense, leadership, accuracy, intangibles, etc.

Ask yourself this question: what does Thigpen do well? All franchise quarterbacks have at least one definable trait that makes every onlooker stand up and say, “Wow.”

And most have several of those traits.

Thigpen has none.

[Hammock Parties]

What's funny is Nick got an e-mail with someone complaining about it, saying Thigpen and Croyle should battle it out for the starting spot this offseason, while the Chiefs upgrade the o-line and draft Crabtree at #3.

[DeezNutz]

What's funny is Nick got an e-mail with someone complaining about it, saying Thigpen and Croyle should battle it out for the starting spot this offseason, while the Chiefs upgrade the o-line and draft Crabtree at #3.

Did he thank the emailer for the $109.99?

Seriously, some of those posters over there...

[Hammock Parties]

Good read. But it's important to note that the entire team on both sides of the ball collapses during the second half. Not only Tyler. It's a dilemma that we had all year. If we overcome that, we may view things differently.

That's not completely true. There were second halves where we ran the ball very effectively, or the defense played well.

[OnTheWarpath15]

What's funny is Nick got an e-mail with someone complaining about it, saying Thigpen and Croyle should battle it out for the starting spot this offseason, while the Chiefs upgrade the o-line and draft Crabtree at #3.

ROFL

[Chiefnj2]

Criticizing Thigpen for having to play out of the pistol is legitimate. Criticizing him for his lack of accuracy is legitimate. Comparing him to QB's with several years of experience under their belt like Roethlisberger, Warner and Rivers and asking why he isn't playing up to their level is stupid.

With only 10 starts nobody on this board has knowledge as to whether he can play from under center or not, or if a QB coach under than Dick Curl can improve his mechanics and accuracy. In preseason he didn't look like he could complete 10% of his passes, so he did show some improvement over the course of the year. Was it enough improvement to annoint him the starter next year? Of course not. Enough improvement to pass over a good value QB in the draft? Of course not. Was it enough to watch him in May in mini-camp, yes.

[DeezNutz]

Criticizing Thigpen for having to play out of the pistol is legitimate. Criticizing him for his lack of accuracy is legitimate. Comparing him to QB's with several years of experience under their belt like Roethlisberger, Warner and Rivers and asking why he isn't playing up to their level is stupid.

With only 10 starts nobody on this board has knowledge as to whether he can play from under center or not, or if a QB coach under than Dick Curl can improve his mechanics and accuracy. In preseason he didn't look like he could complete 10% of his passes, so he did show some improvement over the course of the year. Was it enough improvement to annoint him the starter next year? Of course not. Enough improvement to pass over a good value QB in the draft? Of course not. Was it enough to watch him in May in mini-camp, yes.

And I don't think anyone is arguing that Thigpen should be cut. That would be unbelievably stupid.

I have pretty good knowledge that he can't play under center, though, because he didn't, thus strongly suggesting that he can't. At least not yet...

Let's hope he can develop. Perhaps he can become a #2, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Hammock Parties]

Tony Romo wasn't even drafted. I bet he compared favorably to other elite quarterbacks in some way his first season of starting.

Saying "Oh Thigpen is a poor wittle seventh-rounder" doesn't fly.

[Chiefnj2]

Yet he had everything that Thigpen doesn't, and it all falls under the umbrella of Elite Talent.

.

Was that elite talent on display his rookie year when he completed 52% of his passes for (IIRC) 8 TDs and 17 INTs?

[Chiefnj2]

And I don't think anyone is arguing that Thigpen should be cut. That would be unbelievably stupid.

I have pretty good knowledge that he can't play under center, though, because he didn't, thus strongly suggesting that he can't. At least not yet...

Let's hope he can develop. Perhaps he can become a #2, but I'm not holding my breath.

Isn't that like saying Dorsey won't ever be able to collapse the pocket and get to the QB because he didn't thus strongly suggesting that he can't?

[OnTheWarpath15]

And I don't think anyone is arguing that Thigpen should be cut. That would be unbelievably stupid.

Let's hope he can develop. Perhaps he can become a #2, but I'm not holding my breath.

If it's determined, as expected, that he's worthless in a pro style offense, then IMO, he should be cut.

Why keep a guy knowing you're going to have to change your entire offensive system if you're put in the position where you're forced to play him?

He has a LOT of work to do, considering there are many QB's that come from colleges that run pro style offenses, and struggle to make the transition.

He has 6 months.

[DeezNutz]

Was that elite talent on display his rookie year when he completed 52% of his passes for (IIRC) 8 TDs and 17 INTs?

Yes, it was.

The statistics don't mean shit. Thigpen lovers use the same crap to prove that he compares favorably to every HOFer under the sun.

[DeezNutz]

If it's determined, as expected, that he's worthless in a pro style offense, then IMO, he should be cut.

Why keep a guy knowing you're going to have to change your entire offensive system if you're put in the position where you're forced to play him?

He has a LOT of work to do, considering there are many QB's that come from colleges that run pro style offenses, and struggle to make the transition.

He has 6 months.

I'm fine with this. But I'd give him every opportunity to fail under a new staff with improved coaching. This is all I think he's earned, a continued opportunity.

And when and if he demonstrates that he can't perform, he should be cut immediately, whenever this is.

This could very easily happen very soon.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Was that elite talent on display his rookie year when he completed 52% of his passes for (IIRC) 8 TDs and 17 INTs?

Was it on display when he was picked at #1 overall because of his potential?

Tyler Thigpen is not a Tom Brady Christmas Miracle.

Quit making it out like he is.

You know, if he had any redeeming qualities, I could look past the fact that he was a 7th round pick.

But he doesn't.

He has everything going against him (spread in college, playing inferior competition, inaccuracy, weak arm after 20 yards, etc) and nothing going for him.

[Hammock Parties]

It's like Tom Brady. Sixth-fucking rounder.

His second season, Pats fans weren't sitting back saying "oh he's a sixth-rounder, let's give him some time."

No, they were sitting back saying OMG DO ME AGAIN BRADY

You either got it, or you don't.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I'm fine with this. But I'd give him every opportunity to fail under a new staff with improved coaching. This is all I think he's earned, a continued opportunity.

And when and if he demonstrates that he can't perform, he should be cut immediately, whenever this is.

He could very easily happen very soon.

I have no problem giving him his chance.

I severely doubt he'll do anything with it.

[DeezNutz]

Isn't that like saying Dorsey won't ever be able to collapse the pocket and get to the QB because he didn't thus strongly suggesting that he can't?

No, it's not. Not close. At all.

Someone else want a shot at this? I'm certainly repeating myself at this point. I'm not sure how many ways I can explain the same thing.

[DeezNutz]

I have no problem giving him his chance.

I severely doubt he'll do anything with it.

Agreed.

[ChiefsCountry]

Someone tell the Cowboys they screwed up with Aikman. He didn't have any come from behind victories his first year and he had stats much worse than Thigpen.

They never should have drafted Aikman, they had Steve Peuller who put up identical stats to Thigpen in 1988. They didnt a QB.

[OnTheWarpath15]

They never should have drafted Aikman, they had Steve Peuller who put up identical stats to Thigpen in 1988. They didnt a QB.

Steve Pelluer, FTW!

[Just Passin' By]

Tony Romo wasn't even drafted. I bet he compared favorably to other elite quarterbacks in some way his first season of starting.

Saying "Oh Thigpen is a poor wittle seventh-rounder" doesn't fly.

Right.... it's not as if he can compare favorably to:

3-13 record
326-575 %.567
26 TDs, 28 INTs, TD% 4.5, INT% 4.9
Y/A 6.5
Y/C 11.5
233.7 YPG
Passer rating: 71.2

The above first year numbers are from an elite quarterback by the name of Peyton Manning.

Now, I'm not arguing that the kid's the next Peyton Manning. I'm just trying to point out an example of the inherent flaws in the "compared favorably" remark.

[keg in kc]

No, it's not. Not close. At all. What, you're seriously trying to tell me that the #5 pick in the draft, a national award winning DT from a major university isn't an apt comparison to an undersized, noodle-armed 7th round quarterback from a division II school that we had to build a high school offense around because he couldn't run the regular one?

[Hammock Parties]

The above first year numbers are from an elite quarterback by the name of Peyton Manning.

Yeah, call me if Thigpen ever throws 26 touchdowns. Y'know?

[DeezNutz]

What, you're seriously trying to tell me that the #5 pick in the draft, a national award winning DT from a major university isn't an apt comparison to an undersized, noodle-armed 7th round quarterback from a division II school that we had to build a high school offense around because he couldn't run the regular one?

I know. It's a shocking claim.

I'm sure I'll be "called out" for not developing a more detailed argument to support my assertion.

[OnTheWarpath15]

You guys can come up with all the stats you want.

I've asked repeatedly, yet no one wants to answer.

Go back to when each of these players declared for the draft.

How does Thigpen compare to them?

He doesn't. He's almost the polar opposite of what scouts look for in a franchise QB.

Thigpen is the anti-franchise QB.

[keg in kc]

Thigpen is a poor man's shorter version of rich gannon at a point maybe 5 or 6 years before he possibly gets to be decent, so maybe that's where the attraction comes from.

[OnTheWarpath15]

What, you're seriously trying to tell me that the #5 pick in the draft, a national award winning DT from a major university isn't an apt comparison to an undersized, noodle-armed 7th round quarterback from a division II school that we had to build a high school offense around because he couldn't run the regular one?

ROFL

[Just Passin' By]

Yeah, call me if Thigpen ever throws 26 touchdowns. Y'know?

Manning threw the ball 155 times more that season and had more touchdowns. Who'd ever have imagined that?

Manning's TD% was 4.5 to Thigpen's 4.3. Manning, not surprisingly, also threw more interceptions and at a higher percentage (4.9 vs. 2.9). He threw more interceptions than touchdowns. Should we call you when Thigpen throws the 28 interceptions, too?

[DeezNutz]

Manning threw the ball 155 times more that season and had more touchdowns. Who'd ever have imagined that?

Manning's TD% was 4.5 to Thigpen's 4.3. Manning, not surprisingly, also threw more interceptions and at a higher percentage (4.9 vs. 2.9). He threw more interceptions than touchdowns. Should we call you when Thigpen throws the 28 interceptions, too?

No, but you should definitely call when Thigpen can take a snap from under center.

Until then, let's not waste more time talking about him.

[Hammock Parties]

This is seriously ridiculous. Colts fans were not sitting around talking about Manning like he needed to be replaced after his rookie season.

[Just Passin' By]

No, but you should definitely call when Thigpen can take a snap from behind center.

Until then, let's not waste more time talking about him.

You keep getting hung up on that. The Patriots went shotgun for something like 70% of their passing. It's not nearly the problem you keep trying to make it out to be.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Thigpen is a poor man's shorter version of rich gannon at a point maybe 5 or 6 years before he possibly gets to be decent, so maybe that's where the attraction comes from.

Rich Gannon wasn't Rich Gannon until his mid-30's.

Then he had 4 solid seasons.

4 solid seasons and 4 playoff wins in 17 years is not my idea of "franchise QB."

[DeezNutz]

You keep getting hung up on that. The Patriots went shotgun for something like 70% of their passing. It's not nearly the problem you keep trying to make it out to be.

Fine. If you think the pistol is a viable offense in the NFL, we're going to be talking in circles.

[OnTheWarpath15]

You keep getting hung up on that. The Patriots went shotgun for something like 70% of their passing. It's not nearly the problem you keep trying to make it out to be.

The Patriots have the talent to do so.

[Chiefnj2]

What, you're seriously trying to tell me that the #5 pick in the draft, a national award winning DT from a major university isn't an apt comparison to an undersized, noodle-armed 7th round quarterback from a division II school that we had to build a high school offense around because he couldn't run the regular one?

So, you can't tell how good or bad Dorsey is because he only has one season under his belt?

[DeezNutz]

So, you can't tell how good or bad Dorsey is because he only has one season under his belt?

If you were Jetsnj2, I'd be encouraging you to give Thigpen all the time in the world.

After all, you just can't tell after 7 seasons.

[keg in kc]

So, you can't tell how good or bad Dorsey is because he only has one season under his belt?Dorsey has more talent in his pinky than Thigpen has. So he gets a little more leeway.

He also didn't look bad, as far as rookie defensive tackle goes. He certainly looked like he belonged in the NFL. And we didn't have to tailor a 'special' defense around him in order to keep him on the field.

You're wasting your time bringing Dorsey into this, either way. This is a losing argument for you. I'd try another tack.

[Cormac]

Forget all the garbage about defense and running games that Herm Edwards and company spoon-fed Kansas City the last three years. Get a quarterback, or get used to being beaten by teams that have one. By now, Chiefs fans should know this well: Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Stan Humphries, Jim Harbaugh, John Elway and Peyton Manning. These are the quarterbacks who eliminated Kansas City from the playoffs during the Carl Peterson era, and take one guess what happened to Humphries and Harbaugh in the next round.

Some good arguments made in this article. The best (IMO) is highlighted.

[suds79]

this article pretty much nails it. :clap:

Not much more to say other then that.

My favorite part might be this...

"Get a quarterback, or get used to being beaten by teams that have one."

so true.

[OnTheWarpath15]

So, you can't tell how good or bad Dorsey is because he only has one season under his belt?

I know you're not stupid, but you're pushing it.

You should have to write the word "potential" on the chalkboard 1000 times, then use it in a sentence.

Example:

"While Glenn Dorsey only sacked the QB once in his first season in KC, we're not concerned, because he has the POTENTIAL to do so. We've seen him do it many, many times in college."

Here's another:

"Many fans have serious doubts about Tyler Thigpen being a legitmate QB, because he's never shown the POTENTIAL, or the necessary skills, at any level, that are necessary to be an elite QB."

[DeezNutz]

I know you're not stupid, but you're pushing it.

You should have to write the word "potential" on the chalkboard 1000 times, then use it in a sentence.

Example:

"While Glenn Dorsey only sacked the QB once in his first season in KC, we're not concerned, because he has the POTENTIAL to do so. We've seen him do it in college."

Here's another:

"Many fans have serious doubts about Tyler Thigpen being a legitmate QB, because he's never shown the POTENTIAL, or the necessary skills, at any level, that are necessary to be an elite QB."

Yep.

In the absence of a chalkboard, a standard post will do.

We're going to assign 'Hamas' to grade your efforts.

[Chiefnj2]

I know you're not stupid, but you're pushing it.

You should have to write the word "potential" on the chalkboard 1000 times, then use it in a sentence.

Example:

"While Glenn Dorsey only sacked the QB once in his first season in KC, we're not concerned, because he has the POTENTIAL to do so. We've seen him do it many, many times in college."

Here's another:

"Many fans have serious doubts about Tyler Thigpen being a legitmate QB, because he's never shown the POTENTIAL, or the necessary skills, at any level, that are necessary to be an elite QB."

Your right, Dorsey and all other first round prospects are viewed as having more potential which is why the get more playing time and aren't cut as soon as later picks who might be putting up the same numbers. It doesn't change the fact that 10 games in is too early to come to a complete evaluation. All I've been saying is: (1) he's earned the right to be viewed by the new staff in mini-camp, nothing more nothing less and (2) it is absurd for Clayton to be comparing him to Roethlisberger or any other established QB.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Yep.

In the absence of a chalkboard, a standard post will do.

We're going to assign 'Hamas' to grade your efforts.

I'd be interested to see that grading scale.

True Fan
Die in a fire
Kill yourself
Walk into an AIDS tree

[Just Passin' By]

The Patriots have the talent to do so.

Agreed. But the problem with this argument is that you guys are piggybacking it. The Patriots can do it because they have the talent. The Chiefs have to do it because they don't have the talent to do anything else. Thigpen must suck because they have to use this offense.

I don't think Thigpen is the answer. I've said that repeatedly. The arguments that get leaned on so heavily when you try to belittle his game suck, though.

[Hammock Parties]

The terrible thing is, all these fans are building up an affinity for Tyler Thigpen...now they're going to be overly harsh on the next quarterback that comes in here.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Your right, Dorsey and all other first round prospects are viewed as having more potential which is why the get more playing time and aren't cut as soon as later picks who might be putting up the same numbers. It doesn't change the fact that 10 games in is too early to come to a complete evaluation. All I've been saying is: (1) he's earned the right to be viewed by the new staff in mini-camp, nothing more nothing less and (2) it is absurd for Clayton to be comparing him to Roethlisberger or any other established QB.

Then WTF are you arguing about?

We said the same thing 30-some-odd posts ago.

I'm fine with this. But I'd give him every opportunity to fail under a new staff with improved coaching. This is all I think he's earned, a continued opportunity.

And when and if he demonstrates that he can't perform, he should be cut immediately, whenever this is.

This could very easily happen very soon.

I have no problem giving him his chance.

I severely doubt he'll do anything with it.

[OnTheWarpath15]

The terrible thing is, all these fans are building up an affinity for Tyler Thigpen...now they're going to be overly harsh on the next quarterback that comes in here.


I said the same thing last night or the night before.

If Stafford/Sanchez come in here and struggle, which most rookies do, they'll be all over them.

If for some odd reason we took Freeman and he struggled, they'd be more accepting of it.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Agreed. But the problem with this argument is that you guys are piggybacking it. The Patriots can do it because they have the talent. The Chiefs have to do it because they don't have the talent to do anything else. Thigpen must suck because they have to use this offense.

I don't think Thigpen is the answer. I've said that repeatedly. The arguments that get leaned on so heavily when you try to belittle his game suck, though.

Sometimes the truth hurts.

[DeezNutz]

Then WTF are you arguing about?

We said the same thing 30-some-odd posts ago.

He's trying to force us to call him names, even though it's clear we don't want to do it.

Crazy, self-destructive behavior.

[Just Passin' By]

I said the same thing last night or the night before.

If Stafford/Sanchez come in here and struggle, which most rookies do, they'll be all over them.

If for some odd reason we took Freeman and he struggled, they'd be more accepting of it.

Now, see.... this is what I'm talking about. Let's just change a couple of words for fit....

"If Thigpen comes in here and struggles, which most first year starters do, they'll be all over him."

The argument's the same, the only thing that's really changed is the name.

[doomy3]

I said the same thing last night or the night before.

If Stafford/Sanchez come in here and struggle, which most rookies do, they'll be all over them.

If for some odd reason we took Freeman and he struggled, they'd be more accepting of it.

Just like if they take Curry, there will be several on here who will be just as hard on him.

[DeezNutz]

Now, see.... this is what I'm talking about. Let's just change a couple of words for fit....

"If Thigpen comes in here and struggles, which most first year starters do, they'll be all over him."

The argument's the same, the only thing that's really changed is the name.

No, it's not.

Let me put this another way: What fundamental skill or set of skills does Thigpen possess for me to have patience in his continued "development"?

I'm talking tangible, positive attributes. His arm? His body type? His accuracy? His footwork? What is it? What the **** is it?

There's the ****ing difference. If a young QB had some or any of these, the tone of the conversation would be much, much different.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Now, see.... this is what I'm talking about. Let's just change a couple of words for fit....

"If Thigpen comes in here and struggles, which most first year starters do, they'll be all over him."

Looks like you need to complete the "potential" assignment as well.

You should have to write the word "potential" on the chalkboard 1000 times, then use it in a sentence.

Example:

"While Glenn Dorsey only sacked the QB once in his first season in KC, we're not concerned, because he has the POTENTIAL to do so. We've seen him do it many, many times in college."

Here's another:

"Many fans have serious doubts about Tyler Thigpen being a legitmate QB, because he's never shown the POTENTIAL, or the necessary skills, at any level, that are necessary to be an elite QB."


The argument's the same, the only thing that's really changed is the name, their physical tools, their potential to be elite, their ability to run a pro offfense, or basically, everything. Thigpen compares to those two prospects in exactly ZERO ways.

FYP.

[keg in kc]

I'm not sure where or how Thigpen's 'game' is being belittled. We all watched him play, and we all know his characteristics. He's undersized, he's not accurate, he doesn't have much in the way of arm strength, he's inconsistent, and they had to scrap the offense they spent the entire offseason implementing in favor of an offensive scheme that he could run, one that isn't generally seen anywhere above the high school level. Those aren't opinions or analysis, those are simple statements of fact.

The opinion comes in when I say I wonder what about him shouts 'this is an NFL starting quarterback' to anybody?

[Hammock Parties]

I said the same thing last night or the night before.

If Stafford/Sanchez come in here and struggle, which most rookies do, they'll be all over them.

If for some odd reason we took Freeman and he struggled, they'd be more accepting of it.

As soon as one of these guys gets sacked because he doesn't run a 4.5, people are going to be yelling PUT IN THIGPEN HE WOULD HAVE ESCAPED!

[ChiefsCountry]

If Stafford/Sanchez come in here and struggle, which most rookies do, they'll be all over them.


Like the RedBull and b_iamidiot's threads about Dorsey being a bust.

[BigRock]

Normally, I would completely agree with this statement.

But when an NFL team has to prop up a weakly constructed facade to allow a player to be on the field, then it's pretty obvious he had no business being there in the first place. Doesn't matter if you give him 10 games or 10 years.

This is why the article is weak. The whole "Thigpen doesn't compare to X, Y, and Z" stuff creates a bullshit argument. If Thigpen did have some 4th quarter wins like Ben, or whatever else was said, would that make him a good QB? No, because then the counter would be "He only did that in a gimmick offense because he's not capable of anything else, so piss on him".

That's the case that has to be made from the beginning.

[SDChiefs]

Can't compare him to Big Ben? Why? Big Ben was what, 14-1 his rookie year. Thigpen was 1-12? So what youre basically saying is that you can't compare the two because Ben is so far out of Thigpens league? Gotcha.

[Just Passin' By]

No, it's not.

Let me put this another way: What fundamental skill or set of skills does Thigpen possess for me to have patience in his continued "development"?

I'm talking tangible, positive attributes. His arm? His body type? His accuracy? His footwork? What is it? What the **** is it?

There's the ****ing difference. If a young QB had some or any of these, the tone of the conversation would be much, much different.

This is a completely different group of arguments, and it's one which has much more validity. At a listed 6'1", he is at a disadvantage. However, Drew Brees is listed at 6'0" and is more than capable of getting the job done. The height is a real argument, though, since shorter quarterbacks do tend to have to overcome the problems that come with being of smaller than ideal stature.

The accuracy argument is another one that raises a very valid concern but doesn't work to prove his lack of fitness for the job. Brees was at 55.6% as a rookie. Manning was 56.7. Eli Manning was at a whopping 48.2%. Thigpen's 54.8% is obviously not impressive, but it's not something definitive, either.

Body type doesn't really much matter at QB, unless they are anorexic or bloated mounds of goo, as the position has players that run from pretty damned small to monstrous. Lastly, footwork falls back to a question of how much he's teachable, and neither you nor I have that answer.

None of these arguments that you used are in any way dispositive, but they at least lay the groundwork for a legitimate argument that the kid has too much going against him, and you don't think he's a Warner/Brady type of guy. I know that I sure as hell don't think he's that type of player. I just tend to think that breaking down a player's faults should include more than "He takes every snap out of the pistol", as if his learning curve has been established as a flat line.

[Just Passin' By]

Can't compare him to Big Ben? Why? Big Ben was what, 14-1 his rookie year. Thigpen was 1-12? So what youre basically saying is that you can't compare the two because Ben is so far out of Thigpens league? Gotcha.

Peyton Manning was 3-13.

[Just Passin' By]

Looks like you need to complete the "potential" assignment as well....

What potential did GM's feel they saw Warner show when he first went undrafted and ended up bagging groceries? Where were the GMs nailing Brady's potential, or Romo's. Joe Montana mustn't have had potential either, since he only went in the third round.

But, wait.... they should have kept Ryan Leaf around starting for about 5-6 years because of his amazing potential, right?

[SDChiefs]

And we have all seen what Peyton can do in the playoffs haven't we. No thanks. I want Super Bowls. Not playoff appearances.

[SDChiefs]

Leafs attitude was always a concern. They took a chance with it. Same with Owens, Moss etc.... Yes you have picked a few diamonds in the rough. But lets name off all the ones that became big drafted in the first rd. Many, Many More.

[DeezNutz]

This is a completely different group of arguments, and it's one which has much more validity. At a listed 6'1", he is at a disadvantage. However, Drew Brees is listed at 6'0" and is more than capable of getting the job done. The height is a real argument, though, since shorter quarterbacks do tend to have to overcome the problems that come with being of smaller than ideal stature.

The accuracy argument is another one that raises a very valid concern but doesn't work to prove his lack of fitness for the job. Brees was at 55.6% as a rookie. Manning was 56.7. Eli Manning was at a whopping 48.2%. Thigpen's 54.8% is obviously not impressive, but it's not something definitive, either.

Body type doesn't really much matter at QB, unless they are anorexic or bloated mounds of goo, as the position has players that run from pretty damned small to monstrous. Lastly, footwork falls back to a question of how much he's teachable, and neither you nor I have that answer.

None of these arguments that you used are in any way dispositive, but they at least lay the groundwork for a legitimate argument that the kid has too much going against him, and you don't think he's a Warner/Brady type of guy. I know that I sure as hell don't think he's that type of player. I just tend to think that breaking down a player's faults should include more than "He takes every snap out of the pistol", as if his learning curve has been established as a flat line.

Now we're starting to establish common ground. The concerns I have listed are pretty representative of the criticisms that most of the regular posters have lobbed at Thigpen and his supporters.

These points have been hashed and rehashed. Ultimately, the short-hand version has been to ridicule the pistol. That's all.

The conversation about Thigpen has been a long-standing one, as you well know, but as a new poster you likely don't know where most of the regulars are coming from and how they've repeatedly couched their arguments.

[OnTheWarpath15]

What potential did GM's feel they saw Warner show when he first went undrafted and ended up bagging groceries? Where were the GMs nailing Brady's potential, or Romo's. Joe Montana mustn't have had potential either, since he only went in the third round.

But, wait.... they should have kept Ryan Leaf around starting for about 5-6 years because of his amazing potential, right?

Every single QB you listed had more physical potential and tools coming out of college than Tyler Thigpen.

Warner wasn't drafted primarily because he played at UNI.

Once he caught on with the Rams in 97 (IIRC) he kept showing them why he should stick around. Watch the America's Game episode covering the 99 Rams. DV makes a comment about him showing them too much to let him go.

New England fully expected Brady to be Bledsoe's backup. He had the smarts and the work ethic they liked. Plus, he's 6-4. Huge advantage. He was far and away a better prospect than Thigpen was, or is, for that matter.

Romo? Copy and paste what i said about Warner, it's very similar. Peyton Manning could have played at Eastern Illinois, or wherever the hell Romo played, and not been picked high. Schools like that scare teams off, and rightfully so. It's a rarity when those guys work out.

Montana was a completely different era, one where if teams threw the ball, they threw it long. Montana didn't have the physique or the arm strength to wow scouts, but Walsh knew EXACTLY what he was doing when he picked Joe. Read "The Genius." Excellent book, and details the thought process on the WCO and Montana.

Leaf? All the physical tools, but none of the mental ones. You won't see many successes at any position with the mental issues Leaf had, much less QB.

[googlegoogle]

louisville qb. 4th round.

[Just Passin' By]

Every single QB you listed had more physical potential and tools coming out of college than Tyler Thigpen.

This is what's known as "opinion". You keep presenting crap like this as if it's a fact. Thigpen had enough potential in someone's eyes to get drafted, unlike others that have been put forth as examples.

Warner wasn't drafted primarily because he played at UNI.

And Thigpen came from an NFL football factory?

Once he caught on with the Rams in 97 (IIRC) he kept showing them why he should stick around. Watch the America's Game episode covering the 99 Rams. DV makes a comment about him showing them too much to let him go.

That was years later. He got cut by the Packers in training camp in 1994.

New England fully expected Brady to be Bledsoe's backup. He had the smarts and the work ethic they liked. Plus, he's 6-4. Huge advantage. He was far and away a better prospect than Thigpen was, or is, for that matter.

The Patriots were going to take a chance on a developmental quarterback. It came down to Brady vs. Rattay. Rehbein convinced the team to go with Brady. Brady came out of camp at the #4 quarterback behind Bledsoe, Friesz and Bishop. What happened was that he had been undervalued coming out of Michigan, and he proved it by busting his ass and moving up to #2 by the end of the season. Every single GM in the league missed on Brady through 5 rounds, so let's not pretend that this "potential" was easily seen.

Romo? Copy and paste what i said about Warner, it's very similar. Peyton Manning could have played at Eastern Illinois, or wherever the hell Romo played, and not been picked high. Schools like that scare teams off, and rightfully so. It's a rarity when those guys work out.

But, again, Coastal Carolina is where NFL QBs are sought out as if they are prizes above all others... Romo was undrafted. His potential was so obvious and awe-inspiring that every GM in the league passed on him for 7 rounds.

Leaf? All the physical tools, but none of the mental ones. You won't see many successes at any position with the mental issues Leaf had, much less QB.

Let's try this again..... Leaf was so full of potential that he was the #2 overall pick in the draft. His cup runneth over with potential. He was out of the league after playing fewer than 3 full seasons, and the team that drafted him dumped is ass after he had played only two seasons for them.

[lazepoo]

I understand all of the arguments against Thigpen, and I wholeheartedly believe that we will pursue all other options this offseason in bringing in more quarterbacks, but saying that he was a failure because he couldn't run Herm's offense well isn't saying much. All of our quarterbacks failed in that offense, so even though the pistol was gimmicky and definitely designed to make the most out of an admittedly shitty situation, it worked a hell of a lot better than R2P2.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I understand all of the arguments against Thigpen, and I wholeheartedly believe that we will pursue all other options this offseason in bringing in more quarterbacks, but saying that he was a failure because he couldn't run Herm's offense well isn't saying much. All of our quarterbacks failed in that offense, so even though the pistol was gimmicky and definitely designed to make the most out of an admittedly shitty situation, it worked a hell of a lot better than R2P2.

Really?

How many wins did we have using a pro style offense, and how many did we have using the Pistol?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Peyton Manning was 3-13.

Tyler Thigpen couldn't get on the field.

In his second year, Manning was 13-3. Thigpen was 1 and a billion.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Every single QB you listed had more physical potential and tools coming out of college than Tyler Thigpen.

Warner wasn't drafted primarily because he played at UNI.

Once he caught on with the Rams in 97 (IIRC) he kept showing them why he should stick around. Watch the America's Game episode covering the 99 Rams. DV makes a comment about him showing them too much to let him go.

New England fully expected Brady to be Bledsoe's backup. He had the smarts and the work ethic they liked. Plus, he's 6-4. Huge advantage. He was far and away a better prospect than Thigpen was, or is, for that matter.

Romo? Copy and paste what i said about Warner, it's very similar. Peyton Manning could have played at Eastern Illinois, or wherever the hell Romo played, and not been picked high. Schools like that scare teams off, and rightfully so. It's a rarity when those guys work out.

Montana was a completely different era, one where if teams threw the ball, they threw it long. Montana didn't have the physique or the arm strength to wow scouts, but Walsh knew EXACTLY what he was doing when he picked Joe. Read "The Genius." Excellent book, and details the thought process on the WCO and Montana.

Leaf? All the physical tools, but none of the mental ones. You won't see many successes at any position with the mental issues Leaf had, much less QB.

Romo was a 3x I-AA All American and the Walter Payton Award Winner. After he'd been around Dallas for a while, Peyton tried to trade for him, but Jones wouldn't take any less than a second rounder. Try and float Thigpen for a second and see how quickly each GM can hang up on you.

[lazepoo]

Really?

How many wins did we have using a pro style offense, and how many did we have using the Pistol?

If you're seriously going to argue that we put up more points and had a better shot at winning games while we ran R2P2 then you're really letting the true fans get in your head. Our offense looked dead in the water until Gailey implemented the pistol after Huard and Croyle both went down. At least we had a chance to lose respectably close games after that point instead of embarrassing shutouts where we got blown off of both sides of the ball.

Also, like I said before, I don't think the pistol and Thigpen are the answer, but it was a distinct improvement over what we'd seen up to that point in the season and you're only weakening your other arguments by taking an untenable position like this.

[Mecca]

Let's be honest for a moment you can't rip on his Roethlisberger stuff because Roethlisberger is someone that has been brought up on this forum by some fans as a guy who isn't better than Thigpen then they cite fantasy stats.

According to some on this forum Ben isn't that good or a franchise QB...

That's a good reason for him to be in that argument, think about what has been said about him around here.

[OnTheWarpath15]

If you're seriously going to argue that we put up more points and had a better shot at winning games while we ran R2P2 then you're really letting the true fans get in your head. Our offense looked dead in the water until Gailey implemented the pistol after Huard and Croyle both went down. At least we had a chance to lose respectably close games after that point instead of embarrassing shutouts where we got blown off of both sides of the ball.

Also, like I said before, I don't think the pistol and Thigpen are the answer, but it was a distinct improvement over what we'd seen up to that point in the season and you're only weakening your other arguments by taking an untenable position like this.

If stats were all that mattered, the Saints would have won the SB this year, the Patriots would have won last year, the Rams would have 3, the Vikings of the late 90's would have at least 1.

Looking better and winning games are two different things, and I'm not sure why anyone gives a shit about the former if it doesn't result in the latter.

[Mecca]

You'll never win a god damn thing running the spread or the pistol...spreading the field hurts your line it doesn't help it, watch the Ravens, if you spread the field on them they will blitz it every single time, and with a QB as inaccurate as Thigpen we all know how that ends..

Lets stop pining to continue this crapass offense that doesn't work.

[Halfcan]

nice one GC!

[Hammock Parties]

If stats were all that mattered, the Saints would have won the SB this year, the Patriots would have won last year, the Rams would have 3, the Vikings of the late 90's would have at least 1.

Looking better and winning games are two different things, and I'm not sure why anyone gives a shit about the former if it doesn't result in the latter.

Stats are so the losers can feel better about themselves.

http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/656208.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19332EFD823EFD41CFD8C585447A6744D59284831B75F48EF45

[lazepoo]

If stats were all that mattered, the Saints would have won the SB this year, the Patriots would have won last year, the Rams would have 3, the Vikings of the late 90's would have at least 1.

Looking better and winning games are two different things, and I'm not sure why anyone gives a shit about the former if it doesn't result in the latter.

The point of my original post was that our offense last year in the pro set was awful with all of our QBs, so maybe Herm's pro offense isn't the best one to evaluate our talent (or lack thereof) through. I never argued anything about stats; my argument was that the offense was improved when Thigpen ran it, regardless of the system, and so disparaging him for not getting production out of Herm's offense when the two guys (Croyle and Huard) that had taken all of the snaps and been groomed for the role for the past two years couldn't do shit is a little silly as an argument. If you want to criticize Thigpen, there are plenty of valid arguments you could use, but taking a lot of hits behind a shitty line and taking the Chiefs from a point of complete shame to moderate embarrassment shouldn't be one of them.

[SDChiefs]

I don't consider 2-14 moderate embarassment. It makes me wanna go into the witness protection program and disappear.

[keg in kc]

Thigpen in a pro style offense over the course of the first six games:

38-90 (42.2%) for 392 yards (4.4 yards/attempt), 2 TD and 4 INT. QB rating of 44.3.

The rest of the QBs over the same period:

Huard was 50-81 (61.7%) for 477 yards, 2 TD, 4 INT. 65.7 rating.
Croyle was 20-29 (69.0%) for 151 yards. 81.3 rating.

So that’s a combined 70-110 (63.6%) for 628 yards (5.7 yards/attempt), 2 TD, 4 INT. 69.8 rating.

63.6% completions for Huard/Croyle versus 42.2% completion for Thigpen, more than 2 more yards/attempt. A QB rating 25 points higher, despite the same TD/INT ratio.

Some other Thigpen stats of note:

1st half: 115-204 (56.4%) for 1425 yards, 13 TD, 6 INT. 87.2 rating
2nd half: 115-216 (53.2%) for 1183 yards, 5 TD, 6 INT. 65.4 rating
Two minute offense (either half): 30-67 (44.8%) for 304 yards, 3 TD, 3 INT. 54.6 rating.

1st quarter: 59-90 (62.2%) for 633 yards, 5 TD, 1 INT. 97.1 rating
2nd quarter: 59-114 (51.8%) for 792 yards, 8 TD, 5 INT. 79.3 rating
3rd quarter: 53-93 (57.0%) for 557 yards, 1 TD, 2 INT. 69.2 rating
4th quarter: 62-123 (50.4%) for 626 yards, 4 TD, 4 INT, 62.6 rating

Make of those what you will...

[lazepoo]

Thigpen in a pro style offense over the course of the first six games:

38-90 (42.2%) for 392 yards (4.4 yards/attempt), 2 TD and 4 INT. QB rating of 44.3.

The rest of the QBs over the same period:

Huard was 50-81 (61.7%) for 477 yards, 2 TD, 4 INT. 65.7 rating.
Croyle was 20-29 (69.0%) for 151 yards. 81.3 rating.

So that’s a combined 70-110 (63.6%) for 628 yards (5.7 yards/attempt), 2 TD, 4 INT. 69.8 rating.

63.6% completions for Huard/Croyle versus 42.2% completion for Thigpen, more than 2 more yards/attempt. A QB rating 25 points higher, despite the same TD/INT ratio.

Some other Thigpen stats of note:

1st half: 115-204 (56.4%) for 1425 yards, 13 TD, 6 INT. 87.2 rating
2nd half: 115-216 (53.2%) for 1183 yards, 5 TD, 6 INT. 65.4 rating
Two minute offense (either half): 30-67 (44.8%) for 304 yards, 3 TD, 3 INT. 54.6 rating.

1st quarter: 59-90 (62.2%) for 633 yards, 5 TD, 1 INT. 97.1 rating
2nd quarter: 59-114 (51.8%) for 792 yards, 8 TD, 5 INT. 79.3 rating
3rd quarter: 53-93 (57.0%) for 557 yards, 1 TD, 2 INT. 69.2 rating
4th quarter: 62-123 (50.4%) for 626 yards, 4 TD, 4 INT, 62.6 rating

Make of those what you will...

The story those stats tell is that Thigpen got worn down as the game went on and that our adjustments were poor at halftime. Not especially surprising considering our offensive line and coaching staff.

I'm not even sure how this situation came to pass that I'm defending Thigpen though... I'm not on his bandwagon by any stretch, I just felt compelled to point out for the sake of conversation that Thigpen was the only QB on our roster last year that got our offense to put points on the board and that it was more than any of us could have reasonably expected given the situation, especially from a very inexperienced QB.

[Hammock Parties]

Now quarterbacks get worn down?

Give me a break.

[lazepoo]

I don't consider 2-14 moderate embarassment. It makes me wanna go into the witness protection program and disappear.

I was talking more about the fact that games were at least watchable. Up to the point where Huard and Croyle went down, there was a legitimate argument to be made that we were the worst team in the league. You are right, though, that 2-14 is awful no matter how you slice it.

[keg in kc]

The story those stats tell is that Thigpen got worn down as the game went on Right. He doesn't have the conditioning to play beyond the first quarter. I get it.

Maybe we should try for a quarterback rotation next year, a little quarterback-by-committee.

[Mecca]

It's about like running the spread pistol it makes me embarrassed as a fan.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Of course it can be improved. But don't use the Amazing Glass Man and Captain Fetal to make your point.

Thigpen must have been Superman to withstand the abuse he took. Amazing. Strongest man in the fucking league.
ROFL

How many games did we lose by 7 points or less?

How about this: How many times should a franchise-caliber QB win the close games?

While I agree QB wasn't the sole reason we collapsed in the 2nd half, I also put a lot of the blame on Thigpen getting worse as the situation became more critical.

He chokes, consistently.

THIS! No clutch-time skill. Can't get a fucking pass to Gonzales in the end-zone when it counts against SD.


I guess you can't see that Stafford and Sanchez have potential in a REAL, pro-style offense, where Tyler Thigpen needs a fucking gimmick and 2 injuries to get on the field?

Had Thigpen came in and had that kind of success in a real offense, you may have a point.

For sake of conversation, compare Thigpen to the players listed above as prospects coming out of college.

All the attributes still apply.

They are all the things Thigpen isn't, even when you take their pro experience away and judge them as they were judged coming out of college.

Again, it comes back to a simple point:

Do you think Tyler Thigpen is capable of leading a team to a championship?

Take any of the SB winners of the past few years.

Do they even GET to the SB, much less win it with Tyler Thigpen at his full potential?

The answer is a resounding NO.

You're right. THAT article WOULD be retarded.

Because it would be stupid to bash an elite talent 10 games in.

I don't think it's the same thing with a guy that is FAR from an eilte talent, can't play in a pro offense and is someone we shouldn't be committed to for 10 minutes, much less 10 games.

I'm not saying it deserves a fucking Pulitzer, but it gets the point across.

We need a franchise QB.

Agree or DIE.

FYP. ROFL

And this is the top 3 analysis from that:
1. Detroit Lions: Andre Smith, OT, Alabama
As badly as the Lions need to find a franchise quarterback, we simply can’t see them investing No. 1-type money in anything other than a top offensive lineman. Smith is a dominant run blocker with great body control and feet for the position. He looks like one of the safest picks in this year’s draft.

2. St. Louis Rams: Eugene Monroe, OT, Virginia
With all the trouble St. Louis has had keeping QB Marc Bulger clean in the pocket the past couple of years, offensive tackle looks like the only viable option. Monroe has the body control and overall athleticism to anchor the left side for many years.

3. Kansas City Chiefs: Aaron Curry, OLB, Wake Forest
New GM Scott Pioli isn’t likely to take unnecessary chances during the first couple of months of his regime. Curry is one of the country’s top prospects and adds not only a legitimate defensive playmaker but a lot of versatility for Pioli to build around.

Fucking worthless, move along...

And the Comedy of Tragedy just keeps on coming, don't it?

Dear God.

You understand the term "potential", correct? They have it. Thigpen doesn't.

But please, feel free to light a candle for Tyler if you feel I have wronged him.

The only people that will be bashing Stafford/Sanchez 10 games in are the people that are adamant that you don't need a franchise QB.

ROFL Now WORK THE BODY! UNDER THE RIBS!



It's like Tom Brady. Sixth-fucking rounder.

His second season, Pats fans weren't sitting back saying "oh he's a sixth-rounder, let's give him some time."

No, they were sitting back saying OMG DO ME AGAIN BRADY

You either got it, or you don't.

Damn Straight.

I know you're not stupid, but you're pushing it.

You should have to write the word "potential" on the chalkboard 1000 times, then use it in a sentence.

Example:

"While Glenn Dorsey only sacked the QB once in his first season in KC, we're not concerned, because he has the POTENTIAL to do so. We've seen him do it many, many times in college."

Here's another:

"Many fans have serious doubts about Tyler Thigpen being a legitmate QB, because he's never shown the POTENTIAL, or the necessary skills, at any level, that are necessary to be an elite QB."

ROFLROFLROFL That was pure Awesomeness.

The terrible thing is, all these fans are building up an affinity for Tyler Thigpen...now they're going to be overly harsh on the next quarterback that comes in here.

Well that, my friend, is why the Arrowhead Star Destroyer comes with MANY Airlocks; cattle-car the True Fans, and push the motherfucking 'eject'-button!
Problem solved! :thumb::LOL:

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Just like if they take Curry, there will be several on here who will be just as hard on him.

Curry has skills, I won't be hard on him. I WILL be brutal on Pioli and Haley though.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

As soon as one of these guys gets sacked because he doesn't run a 4.5, people are going to be yelling PUT IN THIGPEN HE WOULD HAVE ESCAPED!

Bullshit. Sanchez can out shuffle Thigpen with his fucking eyes closed. But seeing as how he won't have to due to superior skill; the point is moot.

[lazepoo]

Actually, I was hoping we could run a new offense with 4 TEs on the field and 2 RBs. I think QB is way overvalued in the NFL and we could really lower the strain on the salary cap by cutting all of ours.

[Mecca]

Curry has skills, I won't be hard on him. I WILL be brutal on Pioli and Haley though.

Yea that wouldn't really be Currys fault a team was stupid and overdrafted him.

[keg in kc]

Curry has skills, I won't be hard on him. I WILL be brutal on Pioli and Haley though.I'll be tough on him. If they're drafting a non-pass rushing linebacker at 3, I'm going to expect him to be the love child of a ménage à trois between Dick Butkus, Mike Singletary and Ray Nietzsche, as choreographed and filmed by Ray Lewis. Because that's the only reason anybody would ever take a coverage backer that high: they're expecting a hall of famer.

[RustShack]

I wouldn't HATE drafting Curry or Crabtree, especially if Stafford and Sanchez went one two. BUT I much much much prefer a QB right now. I would be more open to Curry if he was a pass rusher instead of a coverage LB though. I will always have a warm spot for players like Crabtree, but I think if your drafting a WR this high he needs to be better. I really don't see us having a shot at a franchise QB anytime soon and I would hate to see us blow it. I hope Thigpen becomes successful, but I would rather have a Plummer/Cutler, Brees/Rivers, Anderson/Quinn, Warner/Manning type of situation than have no QB.

[RustShack]

Maybe we can draft Sanchez and keep Thigpen and start running the two QB formation :hmmm:



ROFL

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

You'll never win a god damn thing running the spread or the pistol...spreading the field hurts your line it doesn't help it, watch the Ravens, if you spread the field on them they will blitz it every single time, and with a QB as inaccurate as Thigpen we all know how that ends..

Lets stop pining to continue this crapass offense that doesn't work.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.......mennnnnnnnnnnnn!:clap:

I'll be tough on him. If they're drafting a linebacker at 3, I'm going to expect him to be the love child of a Ménage à trois between Dick Butkus, Mike Singletary and Ray Nietzsche, as filmed by Ray Lewis. Because that's the only reason they'd take a coverage backer that high: they're expecting a hall of famer.

I saw some film on him today, and it was pretty goddamned impressive. Hopefully his status elevation at the combine will allow us to get our franchise QB, AND possibly pick up one of the other high-caliber DE's in the later rounds.
We'll probably end up grabbing more offensive personnel though.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Maybe we can draft Sanchez and keep Thigpen and start running the two QB formation :hmmm:



ROFL

ROFL

I believe that's called "A QB and a passing RB".


GENIUS!!!!!

[keg in kc]

You laugh, but people have already been talking about drafting tebow and how he'll 'revolutionize' the NFL by creating a hybrid of the h-back and quarterback, a wildcat who can throw.

(personally I think one kordell stewart experiment was enough)

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

You laugh, but people have already been talking about drafting tebow and how he'll 'revolutionize' the NFL by creating a hybrid of the h-back and quarterback, a wildcat who can throw.

(personally I think one kordell stewart experiment was enough)

Considering the "revolution" comment came from one "Douchenozzleus Maximus Grudenus", I'm not too concerned.

I bet Tebow's "people" were like, "Oh fuck, we are soooo fucked because of that little shithead; GODDAMNIT"!!!!


Kiss of death, IMO.

[Mecca]

Am I the only one that thinks some have the spread fixation since they watch the Big 12 and see all those teams doing it?

[keg in kc]

Am I the only one that thinks some have the spread fixation since they watch the Big 12 and see all those teams doing it?It's not just the big 12, it's...spread...all through college football.

[/rimshot]

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Am I the only one that thinks some have the spread fixation since they watch the Big 12 and see all those teams doing it?

No you're not, it's SHIT football, and I fucking HATE IT!!!!:cuss:

The 12 will NEVER WIN a National Title with that horseshit! I wish Pinkel would just buck up, and start signing bigger guys, and start working from a pro-system. The coaches that continue to use the spread and it's dinky-assed, lackluster QB's are KILLING the NFL.

The overall talent in the NFL now isn't even CLOSE to what it was 10 years ago!

8-8 teams going to the fucking play offs???? Gimme' a break.

[ChiefRon]

You guys can come up with all the stats you want.

I've asked repeatedly, yet no one wants to answer.

Go back to when each of these players declared for the draft.

How does Thigpen compare to them?

He doesn't. He's almost the polar opposite of what scouts look for in a franchise QB.

Thigpen is the anti-franchise QB.

ROFL

[Mecca]

No you're not, it's SHIT football, and I fucking HATE IT!!!!:cuss:

The 12 will NEVER WIN a National Title with that horseshit! I wish Pinkel would just buck up, and start signing bigger guys, and start working from a pro-system. The coaches that continue to use the spread and it's dinky-assed, lackluster QB's are KILLING the NFL.

The overall talent in the NFL now isn't even CLOSE to what it was 10 years ago!

8-8 teams going to the fucking play offs???? Gimme' a break.

A college coach like Pinkel would tell you he has no chance to get elite players there..

The teams that run the spread that blow my mind are teams like Michigan and Oklahoma and Texas they can get whatever players they want there's no need to run gimmicks.

[mikey23545]

Ahh, compare a for-all-intents-and-purposes rookie QB with an absolutely no-talent supporting cast to some QBs in their fifth and sixth years playing on solid playoff caliber teams...Gotcha.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

A college coach like Pinkel would tell you he has no chance to get elite players there..

The teams that run the spread that blow my mind are teams like Michigan and Oklahoma and Texas they can get whatever players they want there's no need to run gimmicks.

Then he would be absolutely fucking lazy.

And "no shit" on OU, UT, and UM. Even Tebow, in his unbridled suckassery, managed to beat OU because those old-school SEC coaches simply don't play that shit!

[Mecca]

Well Florida runs the spread too, it's also amusing they need a gimmick since they can also get whatever players they want.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Well Florida runs the spread too, it's also amusing they need a gimmick since they can also get whatever players they want.

I guess I should pay attention next time, eh? :D

[keg in kc]

Ahh, compare a for-all-intents-and-purposes rookie QB with absolutely no talent to some QBs in their fifth and sixth years playing on solid playoff caliber teams...Gotcha.FYP

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

FYP

Nice. :clap:

[-King-]

Well, 34 out of 46(give or take) Cardinals passes in the superbowl came from the shotgun formation. Take it for what it's worth. Does that mean that Warner cannot take snaps from under center?

I didnt get the stats from a site, I just got the play by play and narrowed it down.

2-10-ARI 27 (9:03) (Shotgun) 13-K.Warner pass short right to 15-S.Breaston to ARI 37 for 10 yards (20-B.McFadden).
1-20-ARI 27 (7:57) 13-K.Warner FUMBLES (Aborted) at ARI 22, recovered by ARI-32-E.James at ARI 23. 32-E.James to ARI 27 for 4 yards (99-B.Keisel).
3-17-ARI 30 (6:30) (Shotgun) 13-K.Warner pass incomplete short left to 81-A.Boldin.
1-10-ARI 17 (13:54) 13-K.Warner pass incomplete short left to 82-L.Pope.
2-10-ARI 17 (13:48) (Shotgun) 13-K.Warner pass short right to 32-E.James pushed ob at ARI 27 for 10 yards (92-J.Harrison).
1-10-ARI 27 (13:16) 13-K.Warner pass short right to 32-E.James to ARI 32 for 5 yards (51-J.Farrior) [99-B.Keisel].
2-5-ARI 32 (12:33) 13-K.Warner pass short left to 15-S.Breaston pushed ob at ARI 39 for 7 yards (24-I.Taylor).
2-9-ARI 40 (11:24) (Shotgun) 13-K.Warner pass short left to 32-E.James to PIT 49 for 11 yards (24-I.Taylor; 10-S.Holmes).
1-20-ARI 41 (10:11) (Shotgun) 13-K.Warner pass short right to 15-S.Breaston to PIT 46 for 13 yards (20-B.McFadden, 25-R.Clark).
2-7-PIT 46 (9:31) 13-K.Warner pass deep right to 81-A.Boldin to PIT 1 for 45 yards (25-R.Clark).
1-1-PIT 1 (8:43) 13-K.Warner pass short left to 89-B.Patrick for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.
2-4-PIT 37 (3:46) 13-K.Warner pass incomplete short right to 89-B.Patrick. PENALTY on ARI-32-E.James, Chop Block, 15 yards, enforced at PIT 37 - No Play.
2-19-ARI 48 (3:42) 13-K.Warner sacked at ARI 45 for -3 yards (56-L.Woodley).
3-22-ARI 45 (2:59) (Shotgun) 13-K.Warner pass incomplete short left to 32-E.James.
1-10-PIT 34 (2:00) (Shotgun) 13-K.Warner pass incomplete short right. Ball thrown away
2-10-PIT 34 (1:53) (Shotgun) 13-K.Warner pass incomplete short middle to 11-L.Fitzgerald [56-L.Woodley].
3-10-PIT 34 (1:49) (Shotgun) 13-K.Warner pass short left to 34-T.Hightower to PIT 24 for 10 yards (99-B.Keisel).
2-10-PIT 24 (:59) (Shotgun) 13-K.Warner pass short middle to 11-L.Fitzgerald to PIT 12 for 12 yards (24-I.Taylor).
1-10-PIT 12 (:43) 13-K.Warner pass short middle to 81-A.Boldin to PIT 5 for 7 yards (94-L.Timmons).
2-3-PIT 5 (:25) 13-K.Warner pass short right to 81-A.Boldin to PIT 1 for 4 yards (56-L.Woodley, 91-Aa.Smith).
1-1-PIT 1 (:18) (Shotgun) 13-K.Warner pass short middle intended for 81-A.Boldin INTERCEPTED by 92-J.Harrison at PIT 0. 92-J.Harrison for 100 yards, TOUCHDOWN. Super Bowl Record, longest interception return yards. Penalty on ARI-61-E.Brown, Face Mask (15 Yards), declined. The Replay Assistant challenged the runner broke the plane ruling, and the play was Upheld.
1-10-ARI 24 (14:54) (Shotgun) 13-K.Warner pass short right to 81-A.Boldin to ARI 28 for 4 yards (51-J.Farrior).
1-10-ARI 47 (12:11) (Shotgun) 13-K.Warner pass short left to 81-A.Boldin to ARI 49 for 2 yards (20-B.McFadden).
2-8-ARI 49 (11:32) 13-K.Warner pass short right to 32-E.James pushed ob at PIT 49 for 2 yards (94-L.Timmons).
3-6-PIT 49 (11:02) (Shotgun) 13-K.Warner sacked at ARI 45 for -6 yards (51-J.Farrior). FUMBLES (51-J.Farrior), RECOVERED by PIT-92-J.Harrison at ARI 44. 92-J.Harrison to ARI 43 for 1 yard (75-L.Brown). Arizona challenged the fumble ruling, and the play was REVERSED. (Shotgun) 13-K.Warner pass incomplete short middle [51-J.Farrior].
1-10-ARI 20 (2:11) (Shotgun) 13-K.Warner pass short middle to 15-S.Breaston to ARI 25 for 5 yards (94-L.Timmons).
3-2-ARI 28 (:58) (Shotgun) 13-K.Warner pass short right to 81-A.Boldin ran ob at ARI 33 for 5 yards.
1-10-ARI 13 (11:30) (Shotgun) 13-K.Warner pass short right to 15-S.Breaston to ARI 26 for 13 yards (22-W.Gay, 56-L.Woodley).
1-10-ARI 26 (11:00) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 13-K.Warner pass short middle to 85-J.Urban to ARI 44 for 18 yards (25-R.Clark).
1-10-ARI 44 (10:33) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 13-K.Warner pass short left to 11-L.Fitzgerald to 50 for 6 yards (24-I.Taylor; 26-D.Townsend) [92-J.Harrison].
2-4- (10:00) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 13-K.Warner pass short middle to 28-J.Arrington to PIT 28 for 22 yards (23-T.Carter).
1-10-PIT 28 (9:23) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 13-K.Warner pass short left to 11-L.Fitzgerald to PIT 10 for 18 yards (24-I.Taylor, 43-T.Polamalu). Penalty on PIT-24-I.Taylor, Defensive Holding, declined.
1-10-PIT 10 (8:58) (Shotgun) 13-K.Warner pass short left to 11-L.Fitzgerald to PIT 4 for 6 yards (24-I.Taylor).
2-4-PIT 4 (8:22) 13-K.Warner pass short middle to 34-T.Hightower to PIT 1 for 3 yards (99-B.Keisel) [92-J.Harrison].
3-1-PIT 1 (7:41) 13-K.Warner pass short right to 11-L.Fitzgerald for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.
1-10-ARI 25 (5:28) (Shotgun) 13-K.Warner pass short right to 81-A.Boldin pushed ob at ARI 36 for 11 yards (24-I.Taylor). PENALTY on PIT-24-I.Taylor, Unnecessary Roughness, 15 yards, enforced at ARI 36.
2-10-PIT 49 (4:34) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 13-K.Warner pass short middle to 15-S.Breaston to PIT 26 for 23 yards (23-T.Carter).
1-10-PIT 26 (3:59) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 13-K.Warner pass incomplete short left. PENALTY on ARI-69-M.Gandy, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at PIT 26 - No Play.
1-20-PIT 36 (3:52) (Shotgun) 13-K.Warner pass incomplete short left to 81-A.Boldin (43-T.Polamalu).
2-20-PIT 36 (3:46) (Shotgun) 13-K.Warner pass incomplete short middle to 85-J.Urban.
3-20-PIT 36 (3:41) (Shotgun) 13-K.Warner pass incomplete short right to 89-B.Patrick (56-L.Woodley).
1-10-ARI 36 (2:53) (Shotgun) 13-K.Warner pass incomplete short middle to 81-A.Boldin.
2-10-ARI 36 (2:47) (Shotgun) 13-K.Warner pass short middle to 11-L.Fitzgerald for 64 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
1-10-ARI 23 (:29) (Shotgun) 13-K.Warner pass deep left to 11-L.Fitzgerald to ARI 43 for 20 yards (94-L.Timmons).
1-10-ARI 43 (:22) (Shotgun) 13-K.Warner pass short middle to 28-J.Arrington to PIT 44 for 13 yards (92-J.Harrison).
1-10-PIT 44 (:15) (Shotgun) 13-K.Warner sacked at PIT 49 for -5 yards (56-L.Woodley). FUMBLES (56-L.Woodley), RECOVERED by PIT-99-B.Keisel at PIT 43. 99-B.Keisel to PIT 43 for no gain (75-L.Brown). PENALTY on PIT-56-L.Woodley, Unsportsmanlike Conduct, 14 yards, enforced at PIT 43.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

When you're up against the Pittsburgh D, with an O-line as SHITE as Arizona's, what else are you going to do?

Nice try, but for fuck's sake...

[OnTheWarpath15]

Well, 34 out of 46(give or take) Cardinals passes in the superbowl came from the shotgun formation. Take it for what it's worth. Does that mean that Warner cannot take snaps from under center?

I didnt get the stats from a site, I just got the play by play and narrowed it down.

No, it means they were down almost the entire game, Haley has a history of abandoning the run, and you're playing the toughest run defense in the league.

Warner regularly took snaps from center in the regular season, as well as with the Giants and Rams.

You basically wasted a lot of time to make no point whatsoever.

[Hammock Parties]

Question: Do the Steelers OR Cardinals have an offensive tackle as good as Branden Albert?

Answer: Fuck no.

EDIT - besides, it's not all just about the shotgun...Warner makes a lot more "pro" throws than Thigpen, who's specialty is the five-yard curl route to a triple-covered Tony Gonzalez.

[-King-]

Question: Do the Steelers OR Cardinals have an offensive tackle as good as Branden Albert?

Answer: **** no.

EDIT - besides, it's not all just about the shotgun...Warner makes a lot more "pro" throws than Thigpen, who's specialty is the five-yard curl route to a triple-covered Tony Gonzalez.

:spock: So Albert makes up the whole O line? The Chiefs allowed more sacks during the season than the Cardinals. So.. you saying their O line is weaker is kind of dumb. Cards allowed 28 sacks and Chiefs allowed 37 sacks. And Thigpen can't get better with a legit coach?

[Hammock Parties]

You're reading too much into my statement.

People think Thigpen is surrounded by shit while Ben and Warner have All-Pro supporting casts out the wazoo.

That's not remotely close to the truth. If either had a left tackle like Albert, it would probably make a huge difference. And it just makes them look even better as great quarterbacks.

Put Thigpen behind that Steelers line and the results would not be pretty.

[OnTheWarpath15]

:spock: So Albert makes up the whole O line? The Chiefs allowed more sacks during the season than the Cardinals. So.. you saying their O line is weaker is kind of dumb. Cards allowed 28 sacks and Chiefs allowed 37 sacks. And Thigpen can't get better with a legit coach?

The Steelers allowed 49 sacks.

Granted, they had a real QB, who got results anyway.

[-King-]

When you're up against the Pittsburgh D, with an O-line as SHITE as Arizona's, what else are you going to do?

Nice try, but for ****'s sake...

Sure, like we have an elite O line. I mean, we only allowed 37 sacks.

And what about Peyton Manning.. his last game he passed from under center only 8 times. I dont buy your argument. Oh wait, of course SD still has an elite defense so they had no choice right? So how about their game against the Lions? He had 17 passes from under center and 30 times from the shotgun. Damn seriously! I guess guy cant play under center!!

[OnTheWarpath15]

Sure, like we have an elite O line. I mean, we only allowed 37 sacks.

And what about Peyton Manning.. his last game he passed from under center only 8 times. I dont buy your argument. Oh wait, of course SD still has an elite defense so they had no choice right? So how about their game against the Lions? He had 17 passes from under center and 30 times from the shotgun. Damn seriously! I guess guy cant play under center!!

Is the same idiot just starting new accounts, or do we really have a serious fucktard infestation around here?

[-King-]

You're reading too much into my statement.

People think Thigpen is surrounded by shit while Ben and Warner have All-Pro supporting casts out the wazoo.

That's not remotely close to the truth. If either had a left tackle like Albert, it would probably make a huge difference. And it just makes them look even better as great quarterbacks.

Put Thigpen behind that Steelers line and the results would not be pretty.

Well, Warner does have this one WR that can catch blind folded with no arms. Ben has 3 legit targets in Ward, Miller and Holmes. Thigpen has Gonzo and a guy who was 2nd in balls dropped. And Max Starks isn't a good LT?

[-King-]

Is the same idiot just starting new accounts, or do we really have a serious ****tard infestation around here?

Come on now, give Claythan some credit.

[-King-]

The Steelers allowed 49 sacks.

Granted, they had a real QB, who got results anyway.

Golly Gee!! I though Big Ben the miracle worker was so great at avoiding sacks? I thought he made plays even under pressure!! Surely he wouldnt get sacked 49 times. I thought that was his selling point?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Is the same idiot just starting new accounts, or do we really have a serious fucktard infestation around here?

I can answer that question in three letters! ROFL

[OnTheWarpath15]

Well, Warner does have this one WR that can catch blind folded with no arms. Ben has 3 legit targets in Ward, Miller and Holmes. Thigpen has Gonzo and a guy who was 2nd in balls dropped. And Max Starks isn't a good LT?

WTF are you talking about?

Bowe had almost identical numbers to Hines Ward, and TG's production wasn't far behind Miller and Holmes COMBINED.

Max Starks is ass. Complete ass.

Kind of like your argument.

[-King-]

I wont dare put the Patriots offense in here. Of course with their success, surely they run every play from under center dont they? There is no way they run more plays from the shot gun.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Golly Gee!! I though Big Ben the miracle worker was so great at avoiding sacks? I thought he made plays even under pressure!! Surely he wouldnt get sacked 49 times. I thought that was his selling point?

Someone ate too many paint chips as a kid.

Or is snacking on a bowl as we speak.

[Shaid]

And if it was written about a QB other than Thigpen, the people praising it would be pointing out what a piece of shit it is.

I'm no Thigpen supporter, but the guy was making the first starts of his NFL career last year. And he was doing so in an offense the team was learning on the fly.

Trying to make a valid comparision between Thigpen and Cutler, who's been a starter for two and a half years, is laughable. Comparing Thigpen to Rivers, even moreso. Comparing Thigpen to Ben F'N Roethlisberger is downright hysterical. We're seriously supposed to learn something from the fact that Ben, a Super Bowl winning QB (not even counting this year), had more game-winning drives?

Why not compare Thigpen to Manning? Or Elway or Montana? It makes as much sense.

If this was written about Stafford or Sanchez 10 starts into their careers, it would be laughed off the board. But because it trashes Thigpen, it's a brilliant analysis?

Come on.

Excellent point. I'm not sold on the guy but I can guarantee that if we had a QB we drafted in the 1st round play the same type of game as Thigpen did last year, the conversation would be entirely different.

[keg in kc]

You act like you're saying things we haven't already discussed to death about how Roethlisberger is the one spread QB from college who's excelled at the pro level, and how the Patriots and Steelers both have used elements of the spread offense the last several years.

None of that changes the fact that Thigpen's a short noodle-armed guy who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I wont dare put the Patriots offense in here. Of course with their success, surely they run every play from under center dont they? There is no way they run more plays from the shot gun.

What point are you trying to make? Running plays from the shotgun doesn't mean your QB can't take snaps from center.

However, in Thigpen's case, not being able to take snaps from center, leads to taking all of your snaps from the shotgun.

I'm still laughing that you think Peyton Manning can't take snaps from center and play in a pro style offense. He's only done it for the past 10+ years.

[Hammock Parties]

Come on now, give Claythan some credit.

Fucking n00b.

[-King-]

You act like you're saying things we haven't already discussed to death about how Roethlisberger is the one spread QB from college who's excelled at the pro level, and how the Patriots and Steelers both have used elements of the spread offense the last several years.

None of that changes the fact that Thigpen's a short noodle-armed guy who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.

Most first year qbs cant. Which their numbers show. Most either have close INT and TD numbers or they have more INTs than TDs.

If we draft Sanchez and he is bad this year, you guys will be like "It's his first year, he has to adjust to the speed of the game!!" yet after this year you are quick to discredit Thigpen.

[Hammock Parties]

It's not even about being "bad." That's what you don't get.

Thigpen played OK last year. He had OK numbers. He wasn't horrible. He was serviceable. But he did nothing, absolutely NOTHING, to make anyone think he'll ever be anything MORE than serviceable.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Most first year qbs cant. Which their numbers show. Most either have close INT and TD numbers or they have more INTs than TDs.

If we draft Sanchez and he is bad this year, you guys will be like "It's his first year, he has to adjust to the speed of the game!!" yet after this year you are quick to discredit Thigpen.

That's because Sanchez has the potential to be great. He has everything you look for in a franchise QB.

Thigpen has zero potential, and has none of the things you look for in a franchise QB.

I swear, Thigpen is the new Bobby Sippio.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Excellent point. I'm not sold on the guy but I can guarantee that if we had a QB we drafted in the 1st round play the same type of game as Thigpen did last year, the conversation would be entirely different.

Your missing the point; a first-round QB is NOT going to be playing in a "let's see what I can pull out of my ass Chan Gailey experiment"-offense!

We're trying to raise the bar here! That's what this is ALL ABOUT.

[sportsman1]

A lil harsh on Thigpen. He has earned a chance to compete. We need to draft a QB for sure no question, and Thigpen to atleast compete. It makes everyone better and wages the bet. Know one has named him starter, so unless you want to cut him I don't see what the obsession with Thiggy is.

[-King-]

What point are you trying to make? Running plays from the shotgun doesn't mean your QB can't take snaps from center.

However, in Thigpen's case, not being able to take snaps from center, leads to taking all of your snaps from the shotgun.

I'm still laughing that you think Peyton Manning can't take snaps from center and play in a pro style offense. He's only done it for the past 10+ years.

I never said that, I was mocking you. You guys keep saying that a good qb takes most snaps from under center and Thigpen is terrible because most of his passes come from the shotgun formation. Why is he an exception?

Of course Manning can take snaps from under center. He's only one of the best qbs for the past 10+ years as you say. I'm just saying, that you guys keep saying Thigpen sucks because keeps playing from the Shotgun and that makes no sense.

[Hammock Parties]

I swear, Thigpen is the new Bobby Sippio.

Who?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Fucking n00b.

ROFL

[OnTheWarpath15]

It's not even about being "bad." That's what you don't get.

Thigpen played OK last year - in the 1st half. He had OK numbers - in the 1st half - He wasn't horrible - in the 1st half - He was serviceable - in the 1st half. But he did nothing, absolutely NOTHING, to make anyone think he'll ever be anything MORE than serviceable - in the entire season.

FYP.

[Hammock Parties]

ROFL

He knows nothing of the true terror I wreak. NOTHING. How dare he attempt to profane my bad name by speaking ignorantly of my dumbassery.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I never said that, I was mocking you. You guys keep saying that a good qb takes most snaps from under center and Thigpen is terrible because most of his passes come from the shotgun formation. Why is he an exception?

That's not what's being said at all, you fucking dolt.

[keg in kc]

Most first year qbs cant. Which their numbers show. Most either have close INT and TD numbers or they have more INTs than TDs. He completed less than 45% of his passes before they went full spread with him. That's horrible marks by any measure. He *can't* run an NFL offense.

I mean sure, we could groom him for the next 5 or 6 years and hope the experience, some elevator shoes and maybe some voodoo magic turn him into a poor man's Rich Gannon.

Or we could try to acquire a guy who actually has NFL measurables, an NFL arm, the ability to read NFL defenses and the potential to actually be a franchise quarterback, and maybe be a contending team sometime before 2015.

Of course, we're in Kansas City, a town that would rather see what they can get out of Mike Maslowski or Monty Beisel instead of trying to fill the roster spot with an actual starting calibre NFL player. Cause we LOVE our projects.

[Buehler445]

OK seriously. Are there people out there that think that if a legit QBOTF is out there that we should PASS on them because of Thigpen, or are people just arguing just to argue.

From my interpretation of what has been said, Thiggy has earned the right to compete, but if a guy that we feel is QBOTF material, we take him and let the best QB win.

Is there anyone out there that is seriously saying we should not take a QB no matter what?

[-King-]

Your missing the point; a first-round QB is NOT going to be playing in a "let's see what I can pull out of my ass Chan Gailey experiment"-offense!

We're trying to raise the bar here! That's what this is ALL ABOUT.

I want to see what OC doesnt want to make his qb more comfortable. I'm sure NE did it when cassell became the starter. I'm sure they scaled down the offense so he could get it better. OCs have to change up the game for backups because backups arent used to the normal offense since they dont run it often. Thigpen was the 3rd qb for goodness sake. Most of the time in practice HE DIDNT EVEN RUN THE CHIEFS PLAYS!!! He ran the opposing teams plays. So of course the OC had to make him more comfortable when he was thrust into the game.

[keg in kc]

OK seriously. Are there people out there that think that if a legit QBOTF is out there that we should PASS on them because of Thigpen, or are people just arguing just to argue. It's got to be a parody.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Your missing the point; a first-round QB is NOT going to be playing in a "let's see what I can pull out of my ass Chan Gailey experiment"-offense!

We're trying to raise the bar here! That's what this is ALL ABOUT.

We've had TWO elite QB's in 46 years.

People have no fucking clue what one looks like, how you have to get one, or what an impact he'll have on your franchise.

With our history, you'd think people would be picketing Arrowhead demanding we draft and develop a franchise QB.

46 years of existence in KC.

7 total playoff wins.

6 of them with a HOF QB under center.

This isn't difficult to figure out, folks.

[OnTheWarpath15]

OK seriously. Are there people out there that think that if a legit QBOTF is out there that we should PASS on them because of Thigpen, or are people just arguing just to argue.

From my interpretation of what has been said, Thiggy has earned the right to compete, but if a guy that we feel is QBOTF material, we take him and let the best QB win.

Is there anyone out there that is seriously saying we should not take a QB no matter what?

Yes, yes and yes.

All of the above.

[-King-]

OK seriously. Are there people out there that think that if a legit QBOTF is out there that we should PASS on them because of Thigpen, or are people just arguing just to argue.

From my interpretation of what has been said, Thigpen has earned the right to compete, but if a guy that we feel is QBOTF material, we take him and let the best QB win.

Is there anyone out there that is seriously saying we should not take a QB no matter what?


Lmfao! Not taking a qb would be stupid as hell. But spending the 3rd pick on a qb not named Stafford is almost as stupid. Sanchez has played ONE year in college, how do we know what he can do year in and year out. To grade a qb, I would think you would need more than one year...unless we use his high school stuff ROFL

[sportsman1]

OK seriously. Are there people out there that think that if a legit QBOTF is out there that we should PASS on them because of Thigpen, or are people just arguing just to argue.

From my interpretation of what has been said, Thigpen has earned the right to compete, but if a guy that we feel is QBOTF material, we take him and let the best QB win.

Is there anyone out there that is seriously saying we should not take a QB no matter what?


There are people that would pass on a quarterback, and draft Curry, Orakapo, or another Olineman. Or trade down.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I want to see what OC doesnt want to make his qb more comfortable. I'm sure NE did it when cassell became the starter. I'm sure they scaled down the offense so he could get it better. OCs have to change up the game for backups because backups arent used to the normal offense since they dont run it often. Thigpen was the 3rd qb for goodness sake. Most of the time in practice HE DIDNT EVEN RUN THE CHIEFS PLAYS!!! He ran the opposing teams plays. So of course the OC had to make him more comfortable when he was thrust into the game.

You have to be a duplicate account, are a troll, or both.

Welcome to ignore, fucktard. Hopefully others follow my lead.

[keg in kc]

Lmfao! Not taking a qb would be stupid as hell. But spending the 3rd pick on a qb not named Stafford is almost as stupid. Sanchez has played ONE year in college, how do we know what he can do year in and year out. To grade a qb, I would think you would need more than one year...unless we use his high school stuff Now that I can agree with, at least to a point. Sanchez would be a gamble.

But I don't think Thigpen should even be part of the discussion. He earned the right to stick around and see what we can turn him into (if anything) over the long haul, but no way on earth should he be handed the starting job next year unless he completely blows whoever the two new quarterbacks we should have on the roster by then out of the water in camp and preseason (which, if he does, we're either royally screwed, or he's traded some magic beans for arm strength and accuracy).

[-King-]

So OnTheWarPath ignores me because I'm having a discussion with him? Wow! People here are sensitive. Seriously, I gave him facts. Gave him ALL STAR qbs who line up in the shotgun more often than not and he still ignores those facts. Seriously come on. Tell me why people are so against Thigpen in the shotgun but adore Peyton in the shotgun. Tell me why you think Dick Curl is horrible yet he is supposed to develop Thigpen into a all star qb. Tell me how you can grade a qb using one year worth of stuff. Someone quote this because I want OntheWarpath to answer this too. Also tell me how come you're so sure Thigpen doesnt have potential.

[keg in kc]

Tell me why people are so against Thigpen in the shotgun but adore Peyton in the shotgun. Because Peyton (and every other NFL starting quarterback) isn't forced to run the shotgun because he can't play from behind center, unlike Thigpen. The shotgun is a wrinkle in their offense, whereas any offense with Thigpen is a one-trick pony by necessity.

[Buehler445]

Yes, yes and yes.

All of the above.

There are people that would pass on a quarterback, and draft Curry, Orakapo, or another Olineman. Or trade down.

Fucking wow.

[-King-]

Now that I can agree with, at least to a point. Sanchez would be a gamble.

But I don't think Thigpen should even be part of the discussion. He earned the right to stick around and see what we can turn him into (if anything) over the long haul, but no way on earth should he be handed the starting job next year unless he completely blows whoever the two new quarterbacks we should have on the roster by then out of the water in camp and preseason (which, if he does, we're either royally screwed, or he's traded some magic beans for arm strength and accuracy).

Seriously, I have no problem with Thigpen being on the bench next year if we find a better qb. I am in no way saying he is the answer. But I dont get why guys like Onthewarpath would like to see him cut. It boggles the mind. Also I dont see how the hell they are so sure Sanchez will be the savior despite only one year worth of game tape. I would think that NFL experts like them would need atleast 2+ years of college experience to grade a qb.

They have no problem seeing the Chiefs spend 70+ million on a one year college qb, but they are angry to see Thigpen on the roster. I dont get it. I dont mind seeing Thigpen on the bench like I said, but I hope it's because teh qb ahead of him is truly better than him. But if Sanchez doesnt have atleast 3k yards 18 touchdowns and less than 10 INTs next year, they will have some explaining to do.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

We've had TWO elite QB's in 46 years.

People have no fucking clue what one looks like, how you have to get one, or what an impact he'll have on your franchise.

With our history, you'd think people would be picketing Arrowhead demanding we draft and develop a franchise QB.

46 years of existence in KC.

7 total playoff wins.

6 of them with a HOF QB under center.

This isn't difficult to figure out, folks.

And there it was. GREAT JOB.

Now that I can agree with, at least to a point. Sanchez would be a gamble.




Sanchez is a "gamble" MORE than worth taking. If his lack of field time is such a hang-up, then I would say "look at what he's done in a short amount of time with his natural, deity-given talent"!

The kid is a winner, and you can't deny it. He practically oozes every positive attribute you could want in a leader. Mark my words( no pun intended ); Mark Sanchez will go to, and win a Super Bowl in his NFL Career.
I just hope he does it as a Kansas City Chief.

[-King-]

Because Peyton (and every other NFL starting quarterback) isn't forced to run the shotgun because he can't play from behind center, unlike Thigpen. The shotgun is a wrinkle in their offense, whereas any offense with Thigpen is a one-trick pony by necessity.

But Peyton had a real qb coach(Jim Caldwell who is now his head coach), Thigpen had Dick Curl. Do you think that he could seriously develop and help Thigpen become more diverse in the passing game? Brady had McDaniels to develop him and Manning had Caldwell to develop him. Thigpen had Curl. Dont you think, he would have become more than that one trick pony if he had decent coaching?

[-King-]

And there it was. GREAT JOB.




Sanchez is a "gamble" MORE than worth taking. If his lack of field time is such a hang-up, then I would say "look at what he's done in a short amount of time with his natural, deity-given talent"!

The kid is a winner, and you can't deny it. He practically oozes every positive attribute you could want in a leader. Mark my words( no pun intended ); Mark Sanchez will go to, and win a Super Bowl in his NFL Career.
I just hope he does it as a Kansas City Chief.

Booty and Leinart had similar stats in their first year starting in the USC offense. I guess you can say "look at what he's done in a short amount of time with his natural, deity-given talent"! for them too. We need more time to see what they can do beside one year. A lot of qbs can have one good year. It takes a great one to keep it consistent. And do we know if Sanchez can keep it consistent?

[keg in kc]

But Peyton had a real qb coach(Jim Caldwell who is now his head coach), Thigpen had Dick Curl. Do you think that he could seriously develop and help Thigpen become more diverse in the passing game? Brady had McDaniels to develop him and Manning had Caldwell to develop him. Thigpen had Curl. Dont you think, he would have become more than that one trick pony if he had decent coaching?No, I don't. He's too limited physically, and he doesn't have the right kind of understanding or feel for the pro game. A pig in high heels and a skirt is still a pig. No amount of make up or lessons in etiquette are gonna make you want to sleep with it, unless you're related to Hog Farmer.

[OnTheWarpath15]

No, I don't. He's too limited physically, and he doesn't have the right kind of understanding or feel for the pro game. A pig in high heels and a skirt is still a pig. No amount of make up or lessons in etiquette are gonna make you want to sleep with it, unless you're related to Hog Farmer.

LMAO

[keg in kc]

The kid is a winner, and you can't deny it.I certainly can deny it. It's risky as hell to draft a quarterback with one season of experience.

I'm glad it's not me making the decision, in any case, and don't get me wrong. I'm not saying not to do it, and I'm not going to be disappointed if they go that route. Pioli and the scouting department make and spend a lot of money around those decisions.

But for me, I say it's risky, and I have a feeling they aren't going to be as flippant about it as you are. It's going to be a tough call for whoever drafts him, whether it's KC or someone else.

[-King-]

Here's another qb who came out after only one year starting in the college ranks sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2005/draft/players/63700.html I think we can all agree one more year would have done him good.

Sorry cant post links.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Booty and Leinart had similar stats in their first year starting in the USC offense. I guess you can say "look at what he's done in a short amount of time with his natural, deity-given talent"! for them too. We need more time to see what they can do beside one year. A lot of qbs can have one good year. It takes a great one to keep it consistent. And do we know if Sanchez can keep it consistent?

I certainly can deny it. It's risky as hell to draft a quarterback with one season of experience.

I'm glad it's not me making the decision, in any case, and don't get me wrong. I'm not saying not to do it, and I'm not going to be disappointed if they go that route. Pioli and the scouting department make and spend a lot of money around those decisions.

But for me, I say it's risky, and I have a feeling they aren't going to be as flippant about it as you are. It's going to be a tough call for whoever drafts him, whether it's KC or someone else.

Show me reel of Booty or Lienart displaying that level of game.

Nonetheless, I'm excited to see what happens with both candidates at the Combine.

[-King-]

I certainly can deny it. It's risky as hell to draft a quarterback with one season of experience.

I'm glad it's not me making the decision, in any case, and don't get me wrong. I'm not saying not to do it, and I'm not going to be disappointed if they go that route. Pioli and the scouting department make and spend a lot of money around those decisions.

But for me, I say it's risky, and I have a feeling they aren't going to be as flippant about it as you are. It's going to be a tough call for whoever drafts him, whether it's KC or someone else.


That's what I've been saying this whole time. I dont know how people can think a qb can save this situation despite only seeing him for one year.

I'm sorry for acting like I'm so anti Thigpen, but this whole thing is my way of countering the pro-Sanchez crowd. I too have questions about Thigpen, but to act like he is shit and all is dumb. He is probably a back up in the league, but if we dont let him compete we'll never know. But if he ends up starting, I wont have a problem with it, if he sits, I wont have a problem with it. As long as wins come, I dont care if we have our kicker as qb. But this whole Sanchez thing is kind of making me angry, to act like they know he will be the savior is the dumbest shit ever. I have a feeling that if we draft him, he will have a bad year and I'll have to sit through the "it's only his first year, let him get used to the speed of the game" bullshit.

[-King-]

Show me reel of Booty or Lienart displaying that level of game.

Nonetheless, I'm excited to see what happens with both candidates at the Combine.

Me too. The management changes have got me hyped up about the combine/draft/and free agency.

[-King-]

No, I don't. He's too limited physically, and he doesn't have the right kind of understanding or feel for the pro game. A pig in high heels and a skirt is still a pig. No amount of make up or lessons in etiquette are gonna make you want to sleep with it, unless you're related to Hog Farmer.

He threw 68 yards into the winds on his pro day. walterfootball.com/pro2007CCAR.php . He can be a throw.

[ChiefRon]

OK seriously. Are there people out there that think that if a legit QBOTF is out there that we should PASS on them because of Thigpen, or are people just arguing just to argue.

From my interpretation of what has been said, Thigpen has earned the right to compete, but if a guy that we feel is QBOTF material, we take him and let the best QB win.

Is there anyone out there that is seriously saying we should not take a QB no matter what?

This is what's killing me about the ongoing debate on this board.

Are there really fans out there that think this?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

This is what's killing me about the ongoing debate on this board.

Are there really fans out there that think this?

The list is growing shorter, but they DO exist. Luckily, there is an abundant supply of Prestone in these troubling economic times...:thumb:

[ChiefsCountry]

I have a feeling that if we draft him, he will have a bad year and I'll have to sit through the "it's only his first year, let him get used to the speed of the game" bullshit.

You really are a retard.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

You really are a retard.

LMAO:LOL:LMAO

[-King-]

You really are a retard.

Ok lay it out for me. What makes him stand out from Alex Smith. What in his 13 games separates him from everyone else? Why is he the savior? What makes him so good that he only needs one year of experience? Because, I know that the most important thing for a qb is consitency. How do you know he can be great year in and year out? Are you drinking deep from the Dirty Sanchez koolaid?

[DeezNutz]

Ok lay it out for me. What makes him stand out from Alex Smith. What in his 13 games separates him from everyone else? Why is he the savior? What makes him so good that he only needs one year of experience? Because, I know that the most important thing for a qb is consitency. How do you know he can be great year in and year out? Are you drinking deep from the Dirty Sanchez koolaid?

Did Sanchez and Smith run the same type of offense?

[ChiefsCountry]

Ok lay it out for me. What makes him stand out from Alex Smith. What in his 13 games separates him from everyone else? Why is he the savior? What makes him so good that he only needs one year of experience? Because, I know that the most important thing for a qb is consitency. How do you know he can be great year in and year out? Are you drinking deep from the Dirty Sanchez koolaid?

If you are expected a great first year out of any QB then you are dumb. The Chiefs are going to suck ass next year. Its been stated hundreds of times why Sanchez can be our franchise QB, dont feel like rehashing it.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Ok lay it out for me. What makes him stand out from Alex Smith. What in his 13 games separates him from everyone else? Why is he the savior? What makes him so good that he only needs one year of experience? Because, I know that the most important thing for a qb is consitency. How do you know he can be great year in and year out? Are you drinking deep from the Dirty Sanchez koolaid?

:eek:ROFL :doh!:

[-King-]

LMAO:LOL:LMAO

Make me believe Sanchez is what he is cracked up to be. Make me believe he only needed 13 collegiate games to advance to the NFL. Do you think he will be great from the get go like Ryan and Flacco or do you believe he'll need to take 2009 as an adjustment year to get used to the game? Do you think that 13 games is enough to grade any NFL prospect. How come despite only playing 3 ranked teams in 2008, he's ready to play NFL defenses?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

If you are expected a great first year out of any QB then you are dumb. The Chiefs are going to suck ass next year. Its been stated hundreds of times why Sanchez can be our franchise QB, dont feel like rehashing it.

We need to compile a "10 Commandments of Sanchez/Stafford/Franchise QB", so we can just keep it on standby and post as necessary, yes?

[ChiefsCountry]

We need to compile a "10 Commandments of Sanchez/Stafford/Franchise QB", so we can just keep it on standby and post as necessary, yes?

Yeah Hamas had one somewhere.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Make me believe Sanchez is what he is cracked up to be. Make me believe he only needed 13 collegiate games to advance to the NFL. Do you think he will be great from the get go like Ryan and Flacco or do you believe he'll need to take 2009 as an adjustment year to get used to the game? Do you think that 13 games is enough to grade any NFL prospect. How come despite only playing 3 ranked teams in 2008, he's ready to play NFL defenses?

You maketh my head hurt.

[-King-]

Did Sanchez and Smith run the same type of offense?

No. Still, I bet both guys would be better with another year of experience.