Will Tyler Thigpen get better?

[The Buddha]

He's kinda new and young. Two year guy...

Is it possible he could get better than he was this last year?

Is it possible he could get a LOT better than he was this last year?

I just want to hear other people's opinions. I want to believe in him, but I also thought Alex Smith would come around for San Fran. I tend to hold on to hope a bit longer than most. :-)

[Reerun_KC]

ROFL

NO!

[blueballs]

TNT
is dynamite
and blows up this place

[no love]

you are entering a world of pain.

[Mecca]

The thread is very undude.

[FAX]

Sure, he'll get better, Mr. The Buddha.

His skeleton technique is too "thrust" oriented. He needs to work on the "three deep, two shallow" method. It just takes concentration and practice. And, it helps if you think about baseball.

FAX

[ClevelandBronco]

Of course he'll get better.

Will he get better enough to overcome his perceived position as a guy who is really just a number 2 at best? (and damned lucky to be higher than a number 3?)

Who knows.

I know this for sure: I'd love to have the kid backing up Jay Cutler.

Nothing but nothing but upside.

Now draft someone.

[Brock]

Sure he could. He could also stay the same, so he's no reason not to try for an upgrade.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

His better will never be good enough.

[sportsman1]

Tyler Thigpen will get better. It is god's will.

[PastorMikH]

No, there's absolutely no way Tyler Thigpen can improve. There is no way this team can win with him at QB. At least according to about 95% of the posters on the Planet.


Thigpen made some rookie mistakes, he also managed to score enough points that had he have been blessed with most of the Ds in the NFL, he could have walked away from last year with a .500 winning percentage.

To think that he can't improve is ridiculous. Can he get his footwork straightened out and learn to play something other than the spread are important questions though. I think he can, but like I said, 95% of posters on this board think he's a waste of time.

[ClevelandBronco]

His better will never be good enough.

Realistically, I'd have to agree.

[Mecca]

No, there's absolutely no way Tyler Thigpen can improve. There is no way this team can win with him at QB. At least according to about 95% of the posters on the Planet.


Thigpen made some rookie mistakes, he also managed to score enough points that had he have been blessed with most of the Ds in the NFL, he could have walked away from last year with a .500 winning percentage.

To think that he can't improve is ridiculous. Can he get his footwork straightened out and learn to play something other than the spread are important questions though. I think he can, but like I said, 95% of posters on this board think he's a waste of time.

Hamas post perfectly points out why it is a waste of time...what are you realistically waiting for?

[ClevelandBronco]

No, there's absolutely no way Tyler Thigpen can improve. There is no way this team can win with him at QB. At least according to about 95% of the posters on the Planet.


Thigpen made some rookie mistakes, he also managed to score enough points that had he have been blessed with most of the Ds in the NFL, he could have walked away from last year with a .500 winning percentage.

To think that he can't improve is ridiculous. Can he get his footwork straightened out and learn to play something other than the spread are important questions though. I think he can, but like I said, 95% of posters on this board think he's a waste of time.

Are you saying that the Chiefs can win it all with Tyler Thigpen, pastor?

[PastorMikH]

His better will never be good enough.


Anything short of Peyton Manning won't be good enough for most. But even with Peyton, there's no way the KC fans could make it though the learning curve without calling for his head on a platter before he starts to really roll.

[keg in kc]

Is it possible he could get better than he was this last year?I don't think so.Is it possible he could get a LOT better than he was this last year?I don't think so.I just want to hear other people's opinions. I want to believe in him, but I also thought Alex Smith would come around for San Fran.I might be more prone to believe in Thigpen if we were talking about a number 1 pick (like Smith) with number 1 pick experience, measurables and abilities instead of a number 217 pick who's a couple inches too short, has poor mechanics and footwork, makes poor reads (when he isn't locked on his primary receiver coming out of the huddle) and has virtually no accuracy on any throw longer than 10 yards.

In any case, I don't think of Thigpen as a potential franchise player. He's a project. I think any degree of improvement is going to be a matter of years, not a matter of months. If he turns into anybody as a pro, I think it would be as a shorter version of Rich Gannon, and I expect that the time frame involved would be about the same (i.e. he might be a quality starter in 5 or 6 years).

Nothing would make me happier than seeing him exceed my expectations, in any case. I'd rather have too many good quarterbacks than too few. But in the end, I just don't see it.

[PastorMikH]

Are you saying that the Chiefs can win it all with Tyler Thigpen, pastor?



With the team we fielded last year, no. But fix ALL the problems on this team and I think he could be an integral part of a winning team.

Think about how bad Trent Green looked his first season here - and he had seen playing time as well as numerous years on the bench learning.

[Mecca]

Anything short of Peyton Manning won't be good enough for most. But even with Peyton, there's no way the KC fans could make it though the learning curve without calling for his head on a platter before he starts to really roll.

People wouldn't be nearly as hard on Thigpen if the Chiefs hadn't been running the gimmick.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Anything short of Peyton Manning won't be good enough for most. But even with Peyton, there's no way the KC fans could make it though the learning curve without calling for his head on a platter before he starts to really roll.

As long as ownership is smart enough not to listen to the dumbasses that call for a QBs head yet patronized a series of 8-8 teams for a decade, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

The fact of the matter is that you can't consistently win in the modern NFL without a franchise QB, and you can't pass one on if he has the realistic potential to be one.

[Mecca]

With the team we fielded last year, no. But fix ALL the problems on this team and I think he could be an integral part of a winning team.

Think about how bad Trent Green looked his first season here - and he had seen playing time as well as numerous years on the bench learning.

No offense or anything but Trent Green took snaps from center and you're idea is basically to build a team with a game manager QB and well been there done that.

[Brock]

Anything short of Peyton Manning won't be good enough for most. But even with Peyton, there's no way the KC fans could make it though the learning curve without calling for his head on a platter before he starts to really roll.

Not true at all. Hyperbole.

[ClevelandBronco]

Anything short of Peyton Manning won't be good enough for most. But even with Peyton, there's no way the KC fans could make it though the learning curve without calling for his head on a platter before he starts to really roll.

Anything short of the Super Bowl shouldn't be good enough for most fans, but there are different ways to get there. The Colts got there with Peyton, but no one else did.

Do you see a scenario that takes you there with Tyler?

[ChiefsCountry]

I seriousally doubt it. But Zilla will come on here and say its bc all draft picks are equal in talent but he didnt get enough practice or gametime.

[Mecca]

I seriousally doubt it. But Zilla will come on here and say its bc all draft picks are equal in talent but he didnt get enough practice or gametime.

That is seriously one of the funniest arguments ever....6th rounders are just as talented they just don't get as much time, I about died laughing when he said it.

[PastorMikH]

Not true at all. Hyperbole.



3-13 with 28 ints? No, fans would be delighted at that.

[keg in kc]

3-13 with 28 ints? No, fans would be delighted at that.Come on. He had 26 TDs and 3700 yards passing.

[Mecca]

3-13 with 28 ints? No, fans would be delighted at that.

He threw 26 TD's...and showed a ton of development over the year...


Be realistic for a moment would you believe anything about Tyler Thigpen if he wasn't suiting up for the Chiefs?

[Brock]

3-13 with 28 ints? No, fans would be delighted at that.

It's a fake comparison. It's unreal the lengths some of you will go to, but the comparison to Manning takes the prize.

[ClevelandBronco]

...fix ALL the problems on this team and I think he could be an integral part of a winning team...

I agree. Thigpen could pull it off on a tremendously talented team.

The Chiefs can't be that team for years, IMHO.

[Reerun_KC]

No, there's absolutely no way Tyler Thigpen can improve. There is no way this team can win with him at QB.

QFT

:clap:

[Mecca]

It's a fake comparison. It's unreal the lengths some of you will go to, but the comparison to Manning takes the prize.

Thigpen got compared to just about every great QB during the course of the season it's not surprising anymore.

[Mecca]

I think people like Thigpen because he strokes 3 fancies this market loves, the underdog, the running QB and the Rich Gannon fixation there are still people that believe we'd have won the bowl if he started.

[PastorMikH]

Anything short of the Super Bowl shouldn't be good enough for most fans, but there are different ways to get there. The Colts got there with Peyton, but no one else did.

Do you see a scenario that takes you there with Tyler?



If the Ravens can make it with Dilfer, anything is possible.

I think if Tyler is our best option, he'll have to do. Am I against trying to bring in a better QB? No, not at all. But as I've stated over and over and over, I'm not sold on who's going to be available to us at #3. FA QBs aren't much more promising at this point.


Tyler does play with heart, and as long as our OL is as solid as it has been the last few years, a QB that can run is a definate plus.

[keg in kc]

I agree. Thigpen could pull it off on a tremendously talented team.I don't even agree with that. There isn't a team in the NFL that could win a Super bowl with Thigpen behind center, including the Steelers.

Maybe he can become enough of a game manager for that in 5 or 6 years.

[Mecca]

The Ravens had one of the best defenses in the history of the league and won 1 bowl with it...

Ponder why that would remotely be a good example or why you'd want to be that.

[doomy3]

The Ravens had one of the best defenses in the history of the league and won 1 bowl with it...

Ponder why that would remotely be a good example or why you'd want to be that.

The Colts had one of the best QBs in the history of the league and won 1 bowl with it....

Just sayin. :D

[Red Beans]

Tyler Thigpen will get better. It is god's will.

god should have been in caps...GOD's will, see how nicely it works.

[ClevelandBronco]

If the Ravens can make it with Dilfer, anything is possible.

I think if Tyler is our best option, he'll have to do. Am I against trying to bring in a better QB? No, not at all. But as I've stated over and over and over, I'm not sold on who's going to be available to us at #3. FA QBs aren't much more promising at this point.

Tyler does play with heart, and as long as our OL is as solid as it has been the last few years, a QB that can run is a definate plus.

I agree. How are you guys going to measure up against the SB winning Ravens team in the next two-three years?

[keg in kc]

I think people like Thigpen because he strokes 3 fancies this market loves, the underdog, the running QB and the Rich Gannon fixation there are still people that believe we'd have won the bowl if he started.There always seems to be a fascination with white players overcoming the odds, as well, although that's less of a curiousity at QB than it is at other positions.

[PastorMikH]

It's a fake comparison. It's unreal the lengths some of you will go to, but the comparison to Manning takes the prize.



Where exactly did I compare Tyler to Eli? I used Manning as an example of how even an elite QB would have fans complaining his first year out of the gate.

No matter how great a QB we could draft, odds are we aren't really going to see what he's really capable of until 2-3 seasons. Until then people will grumble and complain, and the higher the pick the louder the grumbling will be.

[ClevelandBronco]

I don't even agree with that. There isn't a team in the NFL that could win a Super bowl with Thigpen behind center, including the Steelers.

Maybe he can become enough of a game manager for that in 5 or 6 years.

Too long. It would probably have to be quickly. Before defenses knew how to destroy the guy.

[PastorMikH]

I agree. How are you guys going to measure up against the SB winning Ravens team in the next two-three years?


I'm guessing we'll be closer than the Donkeys.:)

[keg in kc]

The Colts had one of the best QBs in the history of the league and won 1 bowl with it....Hopefully we won't have our own personal New England Patriots. I can't imagine how much Indianapolis must hate those guys.

[Mecca]

There always seems to be a fascination with white players overcoming the odds, as well, although that's less of a curiousity at QB than it is at other positions.

Me personally at that position, I don't give a ballsack about underdog or or any of that shit I want talented.

[doomy3]

Hopefully we won't have our own personal New England Patriots. I can't imagine how much Indianapolis must hate those guys.

No shit. Wonder how many Super Bowls they would have won without them

[keg in kc]

I'm guessing we'll be closer than the Donkeys.:)They have at least a semblence of a quarterback, although I'm not as sold on Cutler as most.

[ClevelandBronco]

There always seems to be a fascination with white players overcoming the odds, as well, although that's less of a curiousity at QB than it is at other positions.

Get real. The whole league is actually waiting for a starting Inuit.

[ClevelandBronco]

I'm guessing we'll be closer than the Donkeys.:)

You are a fan. I'm not.

[stevieray]

odds say yes...but you still have to draft with the future in mind..and I think that's the biggest change from the Carl era....

I think if he was as bad as made out, you wouldn't see such push against him.

draft a QB, let them compete for the job...

and even then, all this speculation hinges on what kind of offense Haley wants to run...


this place will be defcon 4 if we draft sanchez and thigpen starts..

[keg in kc]

Get real. The whole league is actually waiting for a starting Inuit.I want them to keep getting players from more and more remote areas of the world just so I can listen to the announcers try to pronounce their names.

[keg in kc]

this place will be defcon 4 if we draft sanchez and thigpen starts..Actually I bet you wouldn't, or at least you wouldn't once people had time to think about it.

Because if Thigpen plays well enough during the preseason to earn the starting job, and doesn't butcher the season, he has trade value. He becomes Brees to Sanchez's Rivers.

Kind of a win-win for KC long term.

I don't expect that to happen, but if it did, that's how I'd react.

[Mecca]

I think the real question you ask yourself is like Hamas said, improve sure but what does he improve into what's his best?

[ClevelandBronco]

Actually I bet you wouldn't, or at least you wouldn't once people had time to think about it.

Because if Thigpen plays well enough during the preseason to earn the starting job, and doesn't butcher the season, he has trade value. He becomes Brees to Sanchez's Rivers.

Kind of a win-win for KC long term.

I don't expect that to happen, but if it did, that's how I'd react.

Thigpen never becomes Brees. Brees went 14-2.

[keg in kc]

The possibility that nobody seems to realize that the one where Thigpen plays worse in '09 than he did in '08.

[keg in kc]

Thigpen never becomes Brees. Brees went 14-2.You'll get no argument from me. Remember that I'm the one saying he might be a poor man's Rich Gannon in 5 or 6 years, and I'm not sure that isn't stretching it.

[ClevelandBronco]

The possibility that nobody seems to realize that the one where Thigpen plays worse in '09 than he did in '08.

It's possible, but it's more likely that he's defended better.

[DaWolf]

The bright side is that Thigpen seemed to learn lessons pretty well from last year and was quick to adjust. If he has the work ethic to continue that, then sure he can become better, but the question is does he have "it", and I am of the opinion that he does not...

[ClevelandBronco]

Hell, we're probably basically on the same page, keg.

[Just Passin' By]

While I think the attacks on this guy get over the top, I don't think it's going to matter much. I don't expect that Thigpen will be starting for the Chiefs.

[Mecca]

The possibility that nobody seems to realize that the one where Thigpen plays worse in '09 than he did in '08.

Considering how many dropped INT's he had...and all that shit is on film to study.

[Saccopoo]

Why did this thread go beyond the first response by Reerun? A well thought out and succinct answer.

[chiefzilla1501]

The bright side is that Thigpen seemed to learn lessons pretty well from last year and was quick to adjust. If he has the work ethic to continue that, then sure he can become better, but the question is does he have "it", and I am of the opinion that he does not...

That's the reason why I don't get that so many people feel like he's hit his ceiling. I'm confident he's going to work his ass off this offseason to at least try to improve--the kid's got his head screwed on straight.

He's not a guy you wait around for--you have to go out and aggressively bring in a good QB to compete this offseason. But I thought he progressed a hell of a lot faster than Croyle did. What impressed me most is the little things--that he started looking down safeties, throwing the ball away, getting better about buying time instead of always wanting to tuck and run. His instincts improved quite a bit. What he needs to prove is that he can improve on the technical side, and who knows, it could be more about footwork than anything. I'd like for him to enter the offseason as the starter, but that from there the coaches fairly evaluate whether he's good enough to keep that job as the offseason goes along. I feel that if Thigpen hasn't shown major signs of improvement by August or so, then he probably isn't the guy to start the season.

[stevieray]

Considering how many dropped INT's he had...and all that shit is on film to study.that's such a lame ass argument, every Qb has dropped int's...hell DJ dropped three this year.

i wonder how many dropped balls by bowe, and yet he still put up almost a k

[FAX]

odds say yes...but you still have to draft with the future in mind..and I think that's the biggest change from the Carl era....

I think if he was as bad as made out, you wouldn't see such push against him.

draft a QB, let them compete for the job...

and even then, all this speculation hinges on what kind of offense Haley wants to run...

this place will be defcon 4 if we draft sanchez and thigpen starts..

Maybe, Mr. stevieray. I'm sure that most peeps here realize that a rookie QB needs time to settle into the NFL. If it comes to that, let the Thigster start for a while. The real meltdown will occur if and when Pioli drafts a lineman with that pick.

You know, when you step back from this situation and think about just how bad our quarterback situation is from top to bottom, it just makes you want to cram chili into your eye sockets.

To think that this team was setting offensive NFL records just a few years ago. Good grief.

FAX

[stevieray]

.

You know, when you step back from this situation and think about just how bad our quarterback situation is from top to bottom, it just makes you want to cram chili into your eye sockets.



FAX

which is why I don't understand all the hoopla, most likely, he isn't going anywhere....until we know more.

[Tribal Warfare]

that's such a lame ass argument, every Qb has dropped int's...hell DJ dropped three this year.

i wonder how many dropped balls by bowe, and yet he still put up almost a k

He zones in on one or two WRs and if they aren't open he throws it up to the covered WR and prays that its not intercepted.

[Mecca]

that's such a lame ass argument, every Qb has dropped int's...hell DJ dropped three this year.

i wonder how many dropped balls by bowe, and yet he still put up almost a k

Ask Damon Huard what happened when the huge number or dropped INT's started happening for him.

[-King-]

What does dropped INTs have to do with anything? Might as well say that the Giants should have their superbowl taken away because Asante dropped the INT that would have sealed the game.

Thigpen can get better. Will he? No one knows, but he can. Under the right qb coach who can actually teach him, theres no telling what he can do. Guys forget who he had to work with last year.

[beach tribe]

He WILL get better. One day he'll be able to run a REAL nfl offense at the level of oh say David Carr.

[beach tribe]

If it wasn't for one Tony Gonzalez, we would not even be discussing Tyler Thigpen right now..

[Mecca]

What does dropped INTs have to do with anything? Might as well say that the Giants should have their superbowl taken away because Asante dropped the INT that would have sealed the game.

Thigpen can get better. Will he? No one knows, but he can. Under the right qb coach who can actually teach him, theres no telling what he can do. Guys forget who he had to work with last year.

Some are one thing he had a ton and usually those things balance out.

[FAX]

If it wasn't for one Tony Gonzalez, we would not even be discussing Tyler Thigpen right now..

ROFL

Point.

FAX

[stevieray]

Ask Damon Huard what happened when the huge number or dropped INT's started happening for him.

I don't care about damon huard. he and those coaches are history.

[stevieray]

If it wasn't for one Tony Gonzalez, we would not even be discussing Tyler Thigpen right now..

Ya, it was fun watching him throw it and then run and catch it.

[FAX]

which is why I don't understand all the hoopla, most likely, he isn't going anywhere....until we know more.

Hoopla 'R Us.

FAX

[stevieray]

Hoopla 'R Us.

FAX
Hoopla 'R Umpus

[dj56dt58]

His better will never be good enough.

hey..tell me who wins the Superbowl next year so I can lay my bets down now

[keg in kc]

I don't care about damon huard. he and those coaches are history.You know he's still on the roster, right?

[FAX]

I'll bite. The way I think about it is that football is still a team game. Surely, even the most ardent Thigite would admit that he has a considerable amount of work to do in the areas of accuracy, footwork, and basically all that "working from under center" stuff. If you're honest about it, you know that's a lot of development time devoted to one peep - but not only on his part - it also involves the coaches as well as the entire team during practice.

So. The question is, do you want to invest all that time and effort into one guy and run the risk of holding back the entire team as well as diverting the coaches' attention away from other matters, or would you prefer to put somebody under center who has a shorter learning curve? Then, on top of that, the question as to whether or not Thigpen is, in fact, the Chiefs' QBotF remains outstanding. It's a genuine dilemma, at that point.

It may be more advisable to invest all those valuable ergs and energy into a quarterback who has a more realistic chance to become our long-term franchise guy and who doesn't have to develop basic skills like accuracy, footwork, and comfort in the traditional pro system. Instead, you're focusing on things like timing, the playbook, reading defenses, and acclimating to NFL speed. I like Thigpen in a lot of ways, but when you weigh all the pros and cons, I think it's more sensible and better for the franchise if we were to start a young draft pick at some point next year.

FAX

[Tribal Warfare]

You know he's still on the roster, right?

It would be ironic that Huard gets hired for the QB coach position for KC.

[beach tribe]

Ya, it was fun watching him throw it and then run and catch it.

No it was funny watching Thigpen never look at anyone but Tony, and then Tony catching everything thrown his direction. Had it been a lesser player he was throwing at, there would be no Tyler Thigpen.

[Mecca]

No it was funny watching Thigpen never look at anyone but Tony, and then Tony catching everything thrown his direction. Had it been a lesser player he was throwing at, there would be no Tyler Thigpen.

It's real stunning Tony loves a guy that pads his stats isn't it?

[beach tribe]

It's real stunning Tony loves a guy that pads his stats isn't it?

I watched MANY plays where Tyler never even bothered looking anywhere else. Tyler knows the deal, and I can't really say i blame the guy. Tony was catching EVERYTHING. Covered or not.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

this place will be defcon 4 if we draft sanchez and thigpen starts..

Not at all. In fact, I'd prefer Sanchez not see any duty save for mop ups for the first 10 games of next year. I don't want him running for his life behind the right side of our line.

Let Thigpen get killed, and then if you have a long week of prep late in the season, give him a running start.

Same goes if Stafford is there.

[beach tribe]

Not at all. In fact, I'd prefer Sanchez not see any duty save for mop ups for the first 10 games of next year. I don't want him running for his life behind the right side of our line.

Let Thigpen get killed, and then if you have a long week of prep late in the season, give him a running start.

Same goes if Stafford is there.

Seriously. I want Thigpen to start. I want Thigpen to gain experience so he can be a great B/U. And I really want Sanchez to sit half, if not a whole season. That is my dream scenario.

[Mecca]

Seriously. I want Thigpen to start. I want Thigpen to gain experience so he can be a great B/U. And I really want Sanchez to sit half, if not a whole season. That is my dream scenario.

For him to be a great backup that means he will have to be good at running the same offense the starter runs.

[beach tribe]

I really see Pioli upgrading the line this off season though. I EXPECT 2 new starters.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I watched MANY plays where Tyler never even bothered looking anywhere else. Tyler knows the deal, and I can't really say i blame the guy. Tony was catching EVERYTHING. Covered or not.

People forget how Sterling Sharpe basically saved Brett Favre's ass the first three years of his career by doing the same thing.

Favre would just drop back and say "fuck it, I'm throwing to Sharpe", and the sumbitch would bail him out time after time.

That, however, is the exception to the rule. The only similarity between Favre and Thigpen is their jersey #.

[beach tribe]

For him to be a great backup that means he will have to be good at running the same offense the starter runs.

I think he can at least play good enough to keep the seat warm in an NFL offense, If he gets a full pre-season of first team snapAnd get better with experience, just not goo enough to be the franchise guy.

[chiefzilla1501]

I'll bite. The way I think about it is that football is still a team game. Surely, even the most ardent Thigite would admit that he has a considerable amount of work to do in the areas of accuracy, footwork, and basically all that "working from under center" stuff. If you're honest about it, you know that's a lot of development time devoted to one peep - but not only on his part - it also involves the coaches as well as the entire team during practice.

So. The question is, do you want to invest all that time and effort into one guy and run the risk of holding back the entire team as well as diverting the coaches' attention away from other matters, or would you prefer to put somebody under center who has a shorter learning curve? Then, on top of that, the question as to whether or not Thigpen is, in fact, the Chiefs' QBotF remains outstanding. It's a genuine dilemma, at that point.

It may be more advisable to invest all those valuable ergs and energy into a quarterback who has a more realistic chance to become our long-term franchise guy and who doesn't have to develop basic skills like accuracy, footwork, and comfort in the traditional pro system. Instead, you're focusing on things like timing, the playbook, reading defenses, and acclimating to NFL speed. I like Thigpen in a lot of ways, but when you weigh all the pros and cons, I think it's more sensible and better for the franchise if we were to start a young draft pick at some point next year.

FAX

Fax, I agreed with you largely up until this point. I think doing that sends a strong message to Thigpen that they're not going to give him a chance to fairly compete for the starting job. I don't believe in entitling first rounders to anything. I think you groom Thigpen for the starting job and it's the first rounder's job to prove otherwise. If Thigpen doesn't improve as much as he should, then it shouldn't be hard for a first round pick to win the job.

We have a few months to determine whether Thigpen is/isn't the guy, and I think a part of that evaluation is if he has upside or if he's peaked. I just think the last thing you want to do is to look back 3 years from now and wonder if Thigpen could have been the answer if he was given a full shot. I think you invest a lot of your resources to getting Thigpen ready before the offseason starts, once you bring the new draft pick in then Thigpen takes all first-team reps and you devote more coaching attention to the first round pick, and throughout the offseason you FAIRLY judge which is the better QB option of the two. I don't see how a few more months invested in Thigpen is going to hold this team back--the Eli Manning and Carson Palmer model suggests that there's nothing wrong with waiting a few games before giving your first round QB a chance to start.

[keg in kc]

I think you groom Thigpen for the starting job and it's the first rounder's job to prove otherwise. If Thigpen doesn't improve as much as he should, then it shouldn't be hard for a first round pick to win the job. Yeah, 'cause that's how NFL teams do it, they draft first rounders to back up seventh rounders. Happens all the time.

[Mecca]

If anyone looks back and longs for Tyler Thigpen I feel bad for that person.

[InChiefsHeaven]

We're forgetting the secret weapon...we don't need to draft a QB...

...Ingle Martin FTW!!!

[TEX]

Fax, I agreed with you largely up until this point. I think doing that sends a strong message to Thigpen that they're not going to give him a chance to fairly compete for the starting job. I don't believe in entitling first rounders to anything. I think you groom Thigpen for the starting job and it's the first rounder's job to prove otherwise. If Thigpen doesn't improve as much as he should, then it shouldn't be hard for a first round pick to win the job.

We have a few months to determine whether Thigpen is/isn't the guy, and I think a part of that evaluation is if he has upside or if he's peaked. I just think the last thing you want to do is to look back 3 years from now and wonder if Thigpen could have been the answer if he was given a full shot. I think you invest a lot of your resources to getting Thigpen ready before the offseason starts, once you bring the new draft pick in then Thigpen takes all first-team reps and you devote more coaching attention to the first round pick, and throughout the offseason you FAIRLY judge which is the better QB option of the two. I don't see how a few more months invested in Thigpen is going to hold this team back--the Eli Manning and Carson Palmer model suggests that there's nothing wrong with waiting a few games before giving your first round QB a chance to start.

This.

[chiefzilla1501]

Yeah, 'cause that's how NFL teams do it, they draft first rounders to back up seventh rounders. Happens all the time.

It does happen all the time. Ryan and Flacco are two rare exceptions of QBs who were immediately thrown into the starting lineup. Cutler, Palmer, Russell, Eli, Vince Young, Leinart---these are guys who didn't start from the get-go.

[SAUTO]

He zones in on one or two WRs and if they aren't open he throws it up to the covered WR and prays that its not intercepted.

LOTS of young qbs do that. fuck some vets still do that

['Hamas' Jenkins]

It does happen all the time. Ryan and Flacco are two rare exceptions of QBs who were immediately thrown into the starting lineup. Cutler, Palmer, Russell, Eli, Vince Young, Leinart---these are guys who didn't start from the get-go.

And Palmer, Eli, Russell, and Cutler were all given the job after paying their "dues", and it didn't involve beating anyone else out.

[warrior]

Seriously. I want Thigpen to start. I want Thigpen to gain experience so he can be a great B/U. And I really want Sanchez to sit half, if not a whole season. That is my dream scenario.




I agree some what he needs to learn how to take snaps under center.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

He threw 26 TD's...and showed a ton of development over the year...


Be realistic for a moment would you believe anything about Tyler Thigpen if he wasn't suiting up for the Chiefs?

If he wasn't a Chief, there would be posts on here about how the Chiefs should trade for him. You know it is true.

[chiefzilla1501]

And Palmer, Eli, Russell, and Cutler were all given the job after paying their "dues", and it didn't involve beating anyone else out.

Which is fine. I think it is the right process unless you have fears that your coaching staff will become too attached to a guy like Thigpen. I don't think Haley will do that.

I really liked the way Denver handled their situation. Even though the Broncos were well over .500 in Cutler's rookie season, they still pulled Plummer because they knew he wasn't the guy to take the team to the next level. That's how I'd like to see the QB situation handled this season. It's not unusual for QBs to start by midseason and, actually, many would argue that it's better, because it gives the young QB more time to prepare and it puts a lot less pressure on him to be a star QB right away.

[Coogs]

I'm very concerned with his declining numbers on his QB ranking from the first quarter of each game to the fourth quarter of each game.

Since there was not much tape out there for opposing DC's to watch on Thigpen, I am assuming the new wrinkles put in for each game were part of the early in the game success. But as adjustments were made to counter the new wrinkles, Thigpens effiency dropped throughout the rest of the game.

Once there is enough tape out there on Thigpen, I wounder how successful he can be? My guess is it is going to somewhat like Anderson from Cleveland. Dude did great when no one knew about him his first year. He struggled quite a bit in the second year.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

He's kinda new and young. Two year guy...

Is it possible he could get better than he was this last year?

Is it possible he could get a LOT better than he was this last year?

I just want to hear other people's opinions. I want to believe in him, but I also thought Alex Smith would come around for San Fran. I tend to hold on to hope a bit longer than most. :-)

Thigpen is an interesting prospect. He played relatively well last year. I know he was in the spread. That is as much about the offensive line and lack of running game as it was about Thigpen being the QB.

For the talk of his 'lack of height'.... he is taller than Drew Brees.

The people that talk about his lack of arm strength are misguided.

He needs to work on his mechanics, but most young QB's do. That is why most young QB's are inconsistent.

I am not sold on him, however, after only one year starting... I am not ready to say he can't do the job. Drew Brees didn't set the world on fire in his first three years.

Rich Gannon was never given a real opportunity because he didn't 'fit' the profile.

None of this guarantees Thigpen will be any good. The point is that the people who 'know' he won't be any good are just typical fans who talk out of their a$$.

[RealSNR]

Thigpen has a 95% probability of failure.

But he played well enough to stay with the squad.

Draft Sanchez and then let Thigpen compete in camp for the starting job. No reason not to.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Thigpen has a 95% probability of failure.

But he played well enough to stay with the squad.

Draft Sanchez and then let Thigpen compete in camp for the starting job. No reason not to.

Exactly. I'd rather go with Thigpen then bring in some scrub vet. He needs work on things no doubt, but at least we know he has the potential to get better.

[InChiefsHeaven]

Thigpen has a 95% probability of failure.

But he played well enough to stay with the squad.

Draft Sanchez and then let Thigpen compete in camp for the starting job. No reason not to.

I don't want to pay a guy #3 pick money for a body of work that equals one college season. If we can't get Stafford, I'd say draft QBOTF next year.

[Brock]

I don't want to pay a guy #3 pick money for a body of work that equals one college season. If we can't get Stafford, I'd say draft QBOTF next year.

:doh!:

[tmax63]

I'm too lazy to look back but there were tons of folks that going into last year was saying not to expect too much from Croyle because he was a first time starter etc,etc, etc, that he would have growing pains and not to judge too fast because of what he had to work with. IMHO qb's normally show promise or not in the first year they start. That tells the coach whether or not to give them more time. I think that Thiggy has earned more time in his 8-10 starts. Folks are ready to judge based on this or that or the other that he is anywhere from worthless to the next Peyton. He's somewhere in between. Some of his #'s show better than some stars out there today at comparable times in there career. Some of them don't. If the guys that hate or love him would give me some lotto #'s I'll play them and whoever wins me the Lotto I'll believe about Thiggy.

[Over-Head]

He's kinda new and young. Two year guy...

Is it possible he could get better than he was this last year?

Is it possible he could get a LOT better than he was this last year?

I just want to hear other people's opinions. I want to believe in him, but I also thought Alex Smith would come around for San Fran. I tend to hold on to hope a bit longer than most. :-)

This just in:
WPI reports Goatboy has signed a season long contract to blow pigpen for every touch down he throws.
The chiefs are expecting another dismal year ROFL j/k

I mean it ain't like we got the qb thing solved in Oaktown either

[jjchieffan]

Are you kidding me? He was not a top 5 draft pick. There is no way he could possibly ever be any good.// Hamas, Mecca

[KcFanInGA]

I got a good feeling about thigpen, and i dont mean the tingle in my penis. At least, I hope that didn't come from Thiggy. Anyway, the guy improved leaps and bounds within a four game stretch, then kind of tapered off. but my point is that he did step up. our offense came to be respectable with him behind center. i say roll with it. could be fate. look at brady if you doubt this.

[MMXcalibur]

I like Thigpen and would hope he remains at the helm for at least one more season.

He was thrust into the starting position in Atlanta and was abysmal, but he eventually was able to make our offense respectable. Much to the chagrin of most people here, I'd like to give him a full training camp and preseason to see if he can build upon his experience last season. One thing he does need to learn very quickly is to stop eyefucking Tony on every pass.

As for the draft, if we pick up Sanchez or Stafford, then great. Let our rookie learn under a rock-solid veteran who's been around like Thigpen. :)

[MOhillbilly]

thigpen is a scrub with abit of poise.

[talastan]

If Pioli and Haley think Thigpen is the guy then good, give him a shot. Let him compete with whoever we decide pickup whether through draft or FA. If Thigpen is the man then let him earn it. As for a QB at #3, if Thigpen beats him out in TC, then let him learn the ropes for a season and mature. If Stafford/Sanchez beat out Tyler then they deserve the spot. No reason for anyone to sit and make a big deal out of this. Trust the staff to make a good decision.

[kcxiv]

If Pioli and Haley think Thigpen is the guy then good, give him a shot. Let him compete with whoever we decide pickup whether through draft or FA. If Thigpen is the man then let him earn it. As for a QB at #3, if Thigpen beats him out in TC, then let him learn the ropes for a season and mature. If Stafford/Sanchez beat out Tyler then they deserve the spot. No reason for anyone to sit and make a big deal out of this. Trust the staff to make a good decision.

This.

[Fritz88]

He has nothing but to improve and no one (not in the draft or FA) can provide more than what TT would provide to KC.

[Fritz88]

If Pioli and Haley think Thigpen is the guy then good, give him a shot. Let him compete with whoever we decide pickup whether through draft or FA. If Thigpen is the man then let him earn it. As for a QB at #3, if Thigpen beats him out in TC, then let him learn the ropes for a season and mature. If Stafford/Sanchez beat out Tyler then they deserve the spot. No reason for anyone to sit and make a big deal out of this. Trust the staff to make a good decision.

:clap: I do not think we should waste our first round pick on a QB. Maybe freeman can fall to the second round and we can pick him up from there.

[kstater]

Do I think he can improve? Probably

Do I think he can improve to where he needs to be to lead this team for the long term future? Probably not.

[kstater]

He has nothing but to improve and no one (not in the draft or FA) can provide more than what TT would provide to KC.

WTF?

[Tribal Warfare]

I do not think we should waste our first round pick on a QB

:spock:

[kstater]

:spock:

A QB at #3 is a reach, we should take a ILB.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

A QB at #3 is a reach, we should take a ILB.

Or a right tackle or a posession reciever...

[Fritz88]

:spock:


WTF?

:D

[CoMoChief]

Thigpen can get better. He hasn't played an entire season, hasn't had a TC or OTA's to work with his WR's, basically was thrown into the lions den last season, what would you do? Throw it to TonyG and Bowe. People complain that he locks on too much, that will decrease with experience and playing time and practice. He played better than many QB's in this league last season and people are wanting to jump ship and draft a fuckin QB coming out of college too early with the 3rd overall pick. This just makes me laugh my ass off.

[Fritz88]

Thigpen can get better. He hasn't played an entire season, hasn't had a TC or OTA's to work with his WR's, basically was thrown into the lions den last season, what would you do? Throw it to TonyG and Bowe. People complain that he locks on too much, that will decrease with experience and playing time and practice. He played better than many QB's in this league last season and people are wanting to jump ship and draft a ****in QB coming out of college too early with the 3rd overall pick. This just makes me laugh my ass off.

He needs time. Pioli and Haley are smart enough to give him a chance.

[CoMoChief]

He needs time. Pioli and Haley are smart enough to give him a chance.

Exactly, give the kid a chance. He did more than enough on his part with the shit he had around him. His legs can create plays. Thats something the Chiefs have NEVER seen in any of their QB's before or at least from what I can remember.

Give him a full TC, snaps on OTA's etc have him work with Bowe and TonyG, give him a better Oline, give him some people to work with and he can be successful IMO. Theres no reason to say otherwise or why he can't.

[keg in kc]

Theres no reason to say otherwise or why he can't.Except that he's short, has horrible footwork, horrible mechanics, can't read defenses, and can't hit a target at more than 10 yards. But other than that, you're right, there's no reason to say otherwise.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

His better will never be good enough.

I'm just waiting for the Official "Krumrie stays as DL Line Coach" to call this round of hires a completely worthless, fucking BUST.

I wouldn't let these motherfuckers "develop" the Bad News Bears.

As long as we draft our QB, and hope to high hell that this staff of one-season monkey-fuckers don't mess him up too bad, I am ready to completely ignore the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs football season with extreme prejudice.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Exactly, give the kid a chance. He did more than enough on his part with the shit he had around him. His legs can create plays. Thats something the Chiefs have NEVER seen in any of their QB's before or at least from what I can remember.

Give him a full TC, snaps on OTA's etc have him work with Bowe and TonyG, give him a better Oline, give him some people to work with and he can be successful IMO. Theres no reason to say otherwise or why he can't.

Eat fuck pie.

[the Talking Can]

KC fans love players that are "better than bad" but not great....

they wouldn't know a great QB if you shoved one up their ass...

"let's just grow our mullets and run the Thig-Pistol for a few years until Svitek is ready to take over at LT...."

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I think people like Thigpen because he strokes 3 fancies this market loves, the underdog, the running QB and the Rich Gannon fixation there are still people that believe we'd have won the bowl if he started.

My favorite response at the Turdalition was "now you have to realize that there are no Payton Mannings in the draft this year".

I'm like, "could you please impart this Mystical fucking power you seem to possess, that allows you to determine such things to me, your Lordship? Ye' of the Thigpen Ballwash"?!

The number that comprises complete ignorance and Homerism in this fan base is absolutely fucking staggering.

[CoMoChief]

Except that he's short, has horrible footwork, horrible mechanics, can't read defenses, and can't hit a target at more than 10 yards. But other than that, you're right, there's no reason to say otherwise.

Coming from Joe Blow the fan.........LOVE IT.

I'll take that kinda production from any rookie (and yes he was pretty much a rookie last season) QB

[CoMoChief]

Eat **** pie.

Are you 12?

[keg in kc]

Coming from Joe Blow the fan.........LOVE IT.So comments from you, another "Joe Blow the fan" are somehow more valid?

mmm'kay.

[Brock]

Coming from Joe Blow the fan.........LOVE IT.

I'll take that kinda production from any rookie (and yes he was pretty much a rookie last season) QB

Moron, you were blathering last season about how Thigpen shouldn't even be on an NFL roster. Leave this shit to people who know what they're talking about.

[CoMoChief]

Moron, you were blathering last season about how Thigpen shouldn't even be on an NFL roster. Leave this shit to people who know what they're talking about.

That was after the first game debacle he had against ATL, in that specific scenario at that time Huard probably should have started.

Theres no question that Thigpen got better as the season went along and he for damn sure didn't have another game like the ATL game.

Who says you cant change your mind about a player if they start playing better?

[Mecca]

My favorite response at the Turdalition was "now you have to realize that there are no Payton Mannings in the draft this year".

I'm like, "could you please impart this Mystical fucking power you seem to possess, that allows you to determine such things to me, your Lordship? Ye' of the Thigpen Ballwash"?!

The number that comprises complete ignorance and Homerism in this fan base is absolutely fucking staggering.

That shit is said every year by a certain portion of the fan base, it was said last year it's being said again, what was said about Croyle last year is now being said about Thigpen...rinse wash repeat.

[Mecca]

I don't want to pay a guy #3 pick money for a body of work that equals one college season. If we can't get Stafford, I'd say draft QBOTF next year.

Fan of the spread money eh?

[keg in kc]

Fan of the spread money eh?So you're saying spread qbs are money?

I knew you'd give in to the dark side eventually.

[CoMoChief]

So comments from you, another "Joe Blow the fan" are somehow more valid?

mmm'kay.

Lets see.... Gailey as the OC again and Tony G are being kept, so far all signs are pointing to theyre gonna see what Thigpen can do. I watched the games last year and he played like a rookie QB, WHICH WAS EXPECTED but got better.

Had Croyle stayed healthy and played like Thigpen no one would be bitching about wanting to draft a "franchise" QB with our 3rd pick. People here would be encouraged with his developement and would allow for him to grow and get better.

And Im not the one boasting on what bad footwork, mechanics, accuracy like I'm a ****in NFL coach like you are. Its amazing how some people on here claim that Thigpen CANT get better after only seeing a handful of games. Please by all means please explain to all of us what bad mechanics and footwork you speak of.

Not to mention that people completely forget the fact that he was BASICALLY A ROOKIE QB last season playing with a horrid Oline and running game, and had the leagues worst defense to help him win games. And people are gonna think drafting Sanchez is going to change all of that? Fucking seriously?

[keg in kc]

Lets see.... Gailey as the OC again and Tony G are being kept, so far all signs are pointing to theyre gonna see what Thigpen can do. This is what they call a 'leap in logic'.

[kcxiv]

That shit is said every year by a certain portion of the fan base, it was said last year it's being said again, what was said about Croyle last year is now being said about Thigpen...rinse wash repeat.

I dont think Croyle has ever shown anything. I dont think he has ever really made a good play. I was hoping he would becuase he was the QB of the team i root for, but the only thing Croyle did was break over and over and over.

If we fix the fucking Offensive line, then we wont be forced to run the spread all game. I dont see why Thigpen cannot run a traditional offense if he had time to actually drop back and not have to worry about being sacked in .5 seconds of the ball being snapped. lol

I am all for drafting a QB in the first, but i just dont feel they will if Stafford is gone.

[Mecca]

I dont think Croyle has ever shown anything. I dont think he has ever really made a good play. I was hoping he would becuase he was the QB of the team i root for, but the only thing Croyle did was break over and over and over.

If we fix the fucking Offensive line, then we wont be forced to run the spread all game. I dont see why Thigpen cannot run a traditional offense if he had time to actually drop back and not have to worry about being sacked in .5 seconds of the ball being snapped. lol

I am all for drafting a QB in the first, but i just dont feel they will if Stafford is gone.

They didn't run the spread for the line, they ran it because Tyler Thigpen can't do anything else...

[keg in kc]

And Im not the one boasting on what bad footwork, mechanics, accuracy like I'm a ****in NFL coach like you are. Its amazing how some people on here claim that Thigpen CANT get better after only seeing a handful of games. Please by all means please explain to all of us what bad mechanics and footwork you speak of.All I take from this jumble is that you have issues with anybody who has an opinion that doesn't match yours. Self esteem problem, or what?

[the Talking Can]

can someone list for me all the spread QBs in college that learned to play under center in the pros and lead their teams to success in the playoffs?

[Mecca]

All I take from this jumble is that you have issues with anybody who has an opinion that doesn't match yours. Self esteem problem, or what?

It just proves why he doesn't know what he's talking about.....and why he has casual fan opinion.

[kcxiv]

They didn't run the spread for the line, they ran it because Tyler Thigpen can't do anything else...

I dont think that is correct, i think it does suite him better, but our oline was fucking HORRRRIBLE. We have a really really bad right side of the line. I dont know if you were watching the games, but there were plenty and i mean plenty of times were Mackinsack didnt even get close to touching the RDE. I mean, alot of times he just reached out for air. lol

[keg in kc]

can someone list for me all the spread QBs in college that learned to play under center in the pros and lead their teams to success in the playoffs?Ben Roethlisberger.

But most of the people arguing against you would try to say he isn't a franchise quarterback, so it's a catch-22.

[the Talking Can]

Ben Roethlisberger.

But most of the people arguing against you would try to say he isn't a franchise quarterback, so it's a catch-22.

ok, so there's 1....and he was pretty much identified as a great prospect from the beginning....

[Mecca]

I dont think that is correct, i think it does suite him better, but our oline was fucking HORRRRIBLE. We have a really really bad right side of the line. I dont know if you were watching the games, but there were plenty and i mean plenty of times were Mackinsack didnt even get close to touching the RDE. I mean, alot of times he just reached out for air. lol

You do understand that the spread actually exposes your QB to more hits right? If you were trying to help your line you'd go double TE and max protect...

I've yet to figure out how anyone can look at the spread and go "that helps the line" that's just not logical.

[Mecca]

ok, so there's 1....and he was pretty much identified as a great prospect from the beginning....

The only one who wasn't superior talent wise or height wise like Roethlisberger is Drew Brees...and he's pretty much every exception for an NFL QB he's a midget.

[the Talking Can]

The only one who wasn't superior talent wise or height wise like Roethlisberger is Drew Brees...and he's pretty much every exception for an NFL QB he's a midget.

right...and that pretty much wraps it up


point being, we'd be flaming morons to put our franchise in Thigpen's hands and pass on a QB...

[whoman69]

I am sure Thigpen can get better. Work on his mechanics and footwork, but you still have the decision making process and the question as to whether that will be enough to give him the accuracy needed. I think Thigpen has proven himself to be an adequate backup if needed. The fact his record was not sterling. He has a lot of blemishes. I think any GM would ask if they believe he can improve to the point where he can be a starting QB, and the answer has to be at best I don't know.

[Mecca]

The thing with this is thinking your spread QB, especially a short one who's talent got him drafted in the 7th round and cut, your odds are so ridiculously far fetched.

[stevieray]

one thing is for sure, he owns this board.

[CoMoChief]

All I take from this jumble is that you have issues with anybody who has an opinion that doesn't match yours. Self esteem problem, or what?

Not at all. It just amazes me how many armchair QB's and coaches there are on this board when in reality you dont know fucking shit about mechanics of a fucking NFL QB, what goes on in practice, how teams prepare and I could go on.

And as far as opinions that done match mine, there are countless #'s of posts where if you're not for drafting Sanchez at #3, if you think thats a reach, then people like Mecca will have total fits and will argue with you for days (literally) to try and prove you wrong.

[keg in kc]

You do understand that the spread actually exposes your QB to more hits right? If you were trying to help your line you'd go double TE and max protect...

I've yet to figure out how anyone can look at the spread and go "that helps the line" that's just not logical.I don't know that I've seen many people argue that installing a spread offense was a way to help with pass protection. Quick throws may help some, but widening the splits and putting linemen in more one-on-one situations just exacerbates problems with blocking, basically begging defenses to bring pressure. And when they do, there's usually no tight end help on the outside (they're either split out or on the sideline) and no backs there to chip. You can try to fight that with bootlegs or screens, but even that won't work if your line's really bad.

Now, anything's possible, but my guess is that installing the spread had more to do with Thigpen completing 40% of his passes and tossing 4 picks in 2 games from under center in the original offense.

[Mecca]

I don't know that I've seen many people argue that installing a spread offense was a way to help with pass protection. Quick throws may help some, but widening the splits and putting linemen in more one-on-one situations just exacerbates problems with blocking, basically begging defenses to bring pressure. And when they do, there's usually no tight end help on the outside (they're either split out or on the sideline) and no backs there to chip. You can try to fight that with bootlegs or screens, but even that won't work if your line's really bad.

Now, anything's possible, but my guess is that installing the spread had more to do with Thigpen completing 40% of his passes and tossing 4 picks in 2 games from under center in the original offense.

We're in 100% agreement.

[SAUTO]

The thing with this is thinking your spread QB, especially a short one who's talent got him drafted in the 7th round and cut, your odds are so ridiculously far fetched.


be fair the vikings didnt expect to lose him

[SAUTO]

Not at all. It just amazes me how many armchair QB's and coaches there are on this board when in reality you dont know fucking shit about mechanics of a fucking NFL QB, what goes on in practice, how teams prepare and I could go on.

And as far as opinions that done match mine, there are countless #'s of posts where if you're not for drafting Sanchez at #3, if you think thats a reach, then people like Mecca will have total fits and will argue with you for days (literally) to try and prove you wrong.

THIS

[stevieray]

Tyler! Tyler! Tyler!

/Jan Brady

[Mecca]

Not at all. It just amazes me how many armchair QB's and coaches there are on this board when in reality you dont know fucking shit about mechanics of a fucking NFL QB, what goes on in practice, how teams prepare and I could go on.

And as far as opinions that done match mine, there are countless #'s of posts where if you're not for drafting Sanchez at #3, if you think thats a reach, then people like Mecca will have total fits and will argue with you for days (literally) to try and prove you wrong.

Don't get upset because you don't know what proper mechanics look like.

[HemiEd]

Anything short of Peyton Manning won't be good enough for most. But even with Peyton, there's no way the KC fans could make it though the learning curve without calling for his head on a platter before he starts to really roll.Yep, and they are the same ones that wanted to gut the team for a rebuild.

[keg in kc]

Not at all. It just amazes me how many armchair QB's and coaches there are on this board when in reality you dont know ****ing shit about mechanics of a ****ing NFL QB, Which, again, makes me different from you in what way, exactly? Because you're apparently trying to argue that Thigpen's mechanics and footwork are fine, and that his accuracy is fine. So you must have something to back that up with. As for me, I've only watched him complete less than 55% of his passes on TV, and look bad doing it. But, alas, I am not in fact an NFL coach, so I suppose I don't even have the right to formulate my own opinions.And as far as opinions that done match mine, there are countless #'s of posts where if you're not for drafting Sanchez at #3, if you think thats a reach, then people like Mecca will have total fits and will argue with you for days (literally) to try and prove you wrong.Take that up with Mecca and whoever else. I don't do that, so there's no reason to go into kindergarten mode with me. If you want to discuss something, then by all means discuss it. Otherwise, if you just want to jump straight to the insults and that kind of bullshit, then I'm gonna ignore you as somebody who isn't mature enough or intelligent enough to waste time on.

[Brock]

Yeah, people don't want to give a seventh round waiver wire pickup the same latitude they would give a top 5 pick. How horrible of them.

[CoMoChief]

Don't get upset because you don't know what proper mechanics look like.

Well Coach by all means what do good QB mechanics look like?

[Mecca]

Which, again, makes me different from you in what way, exactly? Because you're apparently trying to argue that Thigpen's mechanics and footwork are fine, and that his accuracy is fine. So you must something to back that up with. As for me, alas, I've only watched him complete less than 55% of his passes on TV, and look bad doing it.Take that up with Mecca and whoever else. I don't do that, so there's no reason to go into kindergarten mode with me. If you want to discuss something, then by all means discuss it. Otherwise, if you just want to jump straight to the insults and that kind of bullshit, then I'm gonna ignore you as somebody who isn't mature enough or intelligent enough to waste time on.

It's CoMo man, if he says something the general rule is doing the opposite is the right approach.

If he loved Sanchez I'd be like oh shit we're fucked.

[Brock]

Well Coach by all means what do good QB mechanics look like?

Look at Matt Ryan's mechanics. That's a good place to start.

[keg in kc]

Yeah, people don't want to give a seventh round waiver wire pickup the same latitude they would give a top 5 pick. How horrible of them.Wait, do you have enough NFL coaching experience to have an opinion?

I think we're going to have to work up a curriculum vitae database system of some sort so we can make sure only properly qualified posters are allowed to speak.

[the Talking Can]

Wait, do you have enough NFL coaching experience to have an opinion?

I think we're going to have to work up a curriculum vitae database system of some sort so we can make sure only properly qualified posters are allowed to speak.

it would be easier to just turn off teh intertubes....

[Deberg_1990]

I don't know that I've seen many people argue that installing a spread offense was a way to help with pass protection. Quick throws may help some, but widening the splits and putting linemen in more one-on-one situations just exacerbates problems with blocking, basically begging defenses to bring pressure. And when they do, there's usually no tight end help on the outside (they're either split out or on the sideline) and no backs there to chip. You can try to fight that with bootlegs or screens, but even that won't work if your line's really bad.

Now, anything's possible, but my guess is that installing the spread had more to do with Thigpen completing 40% of his passes and tossing 4 picks in 2 games from under center in the original offense.


This. The Chiefs were desperate, they had nothing to lose, so they installed the spread as a last resort.

[CoMoChief]

Which, again, makes me different from you in what way, exactly? Because you're apparently trying to argue that Thigpen's mechanics and footwork are fine, and that his accuracy is fine. So you must have something to back that up with. As for me, I've only watched him complete less than 55% of his passes on TV, and look bad doing it. But, alas, I am not in fact an NFL coach, so I suppose I don't even have the right to formulate my own opinions.Take that up with Mecca and whoever else. I don't do that, so there's no reason to go into kindergarten mode with me. If you want to discuss something, then by all means discuss it. Otherwise, if you just want to jump straight to the insults and that kind of bullshit, then I'm gonna ignore you as somebody who isn't mature enough or intelligent enough to waste time on.

I'm not trying to insult you and if you think that im sorry.

Im also not saying that Thigpens mechanics are great, accuracy, and so on. He needs improvement and with time and practice etc he CAN get better. This whole thread and my original post is about "can Thigpen get better? I believe that he can and explained that in my original post. There are some on here that really honestly believe that even working at it, in practice OTA's, camp whatever, that STILL Thigpen won't get better. How in the fuck do they know this? The answer is, they don't and are unwilling to give it a shot.

[Mecca]

The point isn't if he'll get better it's what is his better?

And as was said before, his better won't be good enough.

[CoMoChief]

This. The Chiefs were desperate, they had nothing to lose, so they installed the spread as a last resort.

The Chiefs werent the only team in the NFL to convert to a hybrid spread offense.

[CoMoChief]

The point isn't if he'll get better it's what is his better?

And as was said before, his better won't be good enough.

and once again you don't know that.

[chiefzilla1501]

You do understand that the spread actually exposes your QB to more hits right? If you were trying to help your line you'd go double TE and max protect...

I've yet to figure out how anyone can look at the spread and go "that helps the line" that's just not logical.

How so? The spread is far more friendly for pass protection because it spreads the defense out and takes more players out of the box, leading to more blitzes. And because you are playing in the shotgun, it forces the defender to take a few more steps to get to the QB. Lots of QBs are fucked after the snap because there's a defender in pursuit in the middle of the dropback. With a spread, if a QB sees a defender in pursuit, he can quickly and decisively run in either direction. So you would be wrong. The ability to protect the QB better and to avoid the blitz is a major reason why a lot of teams like the spread.

[Mecca]

and once again you don't know that.

If 6th round picks got just as much time as 1st round picks they'd be just as good too right?

[Mecca]

How so? The spread is far more friendly for pass protection because it spreads the defense out and takes more players out of the box, leading to more blitzes. And because you are playing in the shotgun, it forces the defender to take a few more steps to get to the QB. Lots of QBs are fucked after the snap because there's a defender in pursuit in the middle of the dropback. With a spread, if a QB sees a defender in pursuit, he can quickly and decisively run in either direction. So you would be wrong. The ability to protect the QB better and to avoid the blitz is a major reason why a lot of teams like the spread.

Nah I'm right, you're wrong...

Tell me how 6th rounders are just as good as 1st rounders again.

[Deberg_1990]

The point isn't if he'll get better it's what is his better?

And as was said before, his better won't be good enough.

My argument as well.

He might get better, but whats his upside? Tavaris Jackson? So whats the point?

[HemiEd]

I'll bite. The way I think about it is that football is still a team game. Surely, even the most ardent Thigite would admit that he has a considerable amount of work to do in the areas of accuracy, footwork, and basically all that "working from under center" stuff. If you're honest about it, you know that's a lot of development time devoted to one peep - but not only on his part - it also involves the coaches as well as the entire team during practice.

So. The question is, do you want to invest all that time and effort into one guy and run the risk of holding back the entire team as well as diverting the coaches' attention away from other matters, or would you prefer to put somebody under center who has a shorter learning curve? Then, on top of that, the question as to whether or not Thigpen is, in fact, the Chiefs' QBotF remains outstanding. It's a genuine dilemma, at that point.

It may be more advisable to invest all those valuable ergs and energy into a quarterback who has a more realistic chance to become our long-term franchise guy and who doesn't have to develop basic skills like accuracy, footwork, and comfort in the traditional pro system. Instead, you're focusing on things like timing, the playbook, reading defenses, and acclimating to NFL speed. I like Thigpen in a lot of ways, but when you weigh all the pros and cons, I think it's more sensible and better for the franchise if we were to start a young draft pick at some point next year.

FAX
Have you totally given up on Brodie?

[Mecca]

My argument as well.

He might get better, but whats his upside? Tavaris Jackson? So whats the point?

You're basically holding onto hope that he becomes a serviceable starter well who the fuck wants to build a team around a serviceable starter....oh shit true fans forgot.

[chiefzilla1501]

Nah I'm right, you're wrong...

Tell me how 6th rounders are just as good as 1st rounders again.

I just don't understand why draft position means anything at this stage of the game. Once you are in the NFL, you should be judged by what you contribute on the NFL level. Who cares what he did on the college level if we have some good evidence of what he can do on the NFL level?

[SAUTO]

I just don't understand why draft position means anything at this stage of the game. Once you are in the NFL, you should be judged by what you contribute on the NFL level. Who cares what he did on the college level if we have some good evidence of what he can do on the NFL level?

EXACTLY but that doesnt support his argument

[kstater]

I just don't understand why draft position means anything at this stage of the game. Once you are in the NFL, you should be judged by what you contribute on the NFL level. Who cares what he did on the college level if we have some good evidence of what he can do on the NFL level?

Because in general, draft position is an indicator of level of talent and potential.

[SAUTO]

Because in general, draft position is an indicator of level of talent and potential.

players get drafted low every year that come in and play really well

[keg in kc]

Im also not saying that Thigpens mechanics are great, accuracy, and so on. He needs improvement and with time and practice etc he CAN get better. This whole thread and my original post is about "can Thigpen get better? I believe that he can and explained that in my original post. There are some on here that really honestly believe that even working at it, in practice OTA's, camp whatever, that STILL Thigpen won't get better. How in the **** do they know this? The answer is, they don't and are unwilling to give it a shot.I think people are talking more about whether Thigpen 'will' get better, as opposed to whether he 'can'. Anybody 'can' get better, and I don't think you'll find many people who'll argue that point.

Beyond that, the greater question is whether the perceived reward is worth the risk and the time investment. What you think Thigpen's ceiling is, and why.

Personally, I don't think the ceiling is very high. I don't think with any amount of time, Thigpen will ever be a franchise quarterback. And because I believe a franchise quarterback is something we should strive for, I think we need to look to upgrade. That doesn't mean he shouldn't have the opportunity to compete throughout the offseason, I just don't think he should be handed the job. I think that would be a mistake. We need to get better.

As for Sanchez, well, Stafford is the guy I want. But if Sanchez is there at 3, I probably pull the trigger. As it pertains to this discussion, I think, as big as a risk as he is because of the lack of experience and film on him, he has a far, far greater chance at being a franchise quarterback than Thigpen does. He doesn't have the size limitations, he has an NFL arm with the ability to make NFL throws, he completed over 65% of his passes and he did it in a pro-style offense. He's competed at a very high level in high pressure situations. He has everything you could possibly ever look for in a quarterback. Except for games played. (And make no mistake, that does concern me)

I don't think it's even a fair comparison (for Thigpen) to talk about the two of them at the same time, to be honest. Thigpen would be a good underdog story, a guy overcoming all the odds to become more than he should be. While Sanchez would be a guy meeting expectations, nothing more.

This is the way I look at it: I think they're both gambles, but which is the bigger gamble - going forward with Mark Sanchez as your quarterback of the future, or going forward with Tyler Thigpen?

I think anybody that says Sanchez is a bigger gamble is having a little bromance with Thigpen. Now, that doesn't mean Thigpen won't or can't exceed expectations, or that he can't possibly be a better QB in the end. Anything 'can' happen. But if I was a bettin' man...

[chiefzilla1501]

Because in general, draft position is an indicator of level of talent and potential.

But draft position is a projection about potential. It is a best guess. Yes, draft position should determine who you're willing to take a chance on. But it should not be a label that hangs over your head once you've gotten real playing time. Once you play real games in the NFL, draft status is mostly irrelevant.

It's like the real world. You recruit one guy from Harvard and one guy from Mizzou. Once those two have the same job, shouldn't they be evaluated based on what they do on the job rather than the school they went to? Because in the real world, the quality of your school helps you get your job, but the quality of your work is what gets you promotions.

[SAUTO]

But draft position is a projection about potential. It is a best guess. Yes, draft position should determine who you're willing to take a chance on. But it should not be a label that hangs over your head once you've gotten real playing time. Once you play real games in the NFL, draft status is mostly irrelevant.

It's like the real world. You recruit one guy from Harvard and one guy from Mizzou. Once those two have the same job, shouldn't they be evaluated based on what they do on the job rather than the school they went to? Because in the real world, the quality of your school helps you get your job, but the quality of your work is what gets you promotions.

:D good point

[kstater]

But draft position is a projection about potential. It is a best guess. Yes, draft position should determine who you're willing to take a chance on. But it should not be a label that hangs over your head once you've gotten real playing time. Once you play real games in the NFL, draft status is mostly irrelevant.

It's like the real world. You recruit one guy from Harvard and one guy from Mizzou. Once those two have the same job, shouldn't they be evaluated based on what they do on the job rather than the school they went to? Because in the real world, the quality of your school helps you get your job, but the quality of your work is what gets you promotions.

Ok, we can look at the real games then.

Thigpen was 30/32 in Completion %
Thigpen was 29/32 in Yards/Attempt
Thigpen was 27/32 in QB rating
Thigpen was tied for 11th worst in INT's

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Me personally at that position, I don't give a ballsack about underdog or or any of that shit I want talented.

This.

I think the real question you ask yourself is like Hamas said, improve sure but what does he improve into what's his best?

Elvis Grbac. Bank it!

Ask Damon Huard what happened when the huge number or dropped INT's started happening for him.

Yanked! LMAO:doh!:

If it wasn't for one Tony Gonzalez, we would not even be discussing Tyler Thigpen right now..

A-Fucking MEN.

hey..tell me who wins the Superbowl next year so I can lay my bets down now

I can turn you on to a dipshit at the Turdalition with Mystical Powers, IF we agree to split the take.:doh!:

It's real stunning Tony loves a guy that pads his stats isn't it?

Call Ripleys!LMAO

Not at all. In fact, I'd prefer Sanchez not see any duty save for mop ups for the first 10 games of next year. I don't want him running for his life behind the right side of our line.

Let Thigpen get killed, and then if you have a long week of prep late in the season, give him a running start.

Same goes if Stafford is there.

No shit. Fuck the clipboard with this current mass-hiring of asshats; just give Mark or Matt a tub of popcorn for each game, and the instructions:

"Just watch what this fuckhead does, and do the opposite; we'll have a real staff next year, so be ready".

If he wasn't a Chief, there would be posts on here about how the Chiefs should trade for him. You know it is true.

Why? Why do you punish us with your Epic Nosensicality?

:clap: I do not think we should waste our first round pick on a QB. Maybe freeman can fall to the second round and we can pick him up from there.

Eat fuck pie.



Are you 12?

Are you fucking autistic? Don't answer.

right...and that pretty much wraps it up


point being, we'd be flaming morons with gasoline-drenched ass-hats, dancing the hokey-pokey with carrots up our asses while wild horses chased us around the barnyard trying to eat them, to put our franchise in Thigpen's hands and pass on a QB...

AYP(Augmented Your Post):D

Tyler! Tyler! Tyler!

/Jan Brady

ROFL

Yeah, people don't want to give a seventh round waiver wire pickup the same latitude they would give a top 5 pick. How horrible of them.

LMAO

[FAX]

I don't know that I've seen many people argue that installing a spread offense was a way to help with pass protection. Quick throws may help some, but widening the splits and putting linemen in more one-on-one situations just exacerbates problems with blocking, basically begging defenses to bring pressure. And when they do, there's usually no tight end help on the outside (they're either split out or on the sideline) and no backs there to chip. You can try to fight that with bootlegs or screens, but even that won't work if your line's really bad.

Now, anything's possible, but my guess is that installing the spread had more to do with Thigpen completing 40% of his passes and tossing 4 picks in 2 games from under center in the original offense.

I respect your football takes without hesitation or question, Mr. keg in kc. Time and again, you have demonstrated extraordinary knowledge and insight when it comes to analyzing the great game.

Although I believe you are correct in your assessment that Gailey went with the "spread" primarily for Thigpen's benefit, I continue to think that there were also other factors that played into his decision.

This issue as to whether or not the spread actually benefits the o-line has been debated here, of course - with Mr. Mecca leading "Nyet" constituency. There are those who believe that the spread doesn't help the line and those who think the question isn't that simple. It is my view that the advantages of the spread (so far as pass protection is concerned) are somewhat subtle, yet no less compelling. Therefore, I would like to take this opportunity to present several reasons why the system actually takes some of the pressure off an offensive line that is having difficulty in pass protection because, when your line can't block, the faster you get the ball out of the quarterback's hands, the better.

1. As you mentioned. The spread lends itself to a quick passing attack - short hitches, hooks, etc. - and more frequent "hot" reads, and that's the key. Since the quarterback sees a more open ("spread out") field with space, hot reads are easier to make.

2. The spread formation reduces the number of alignments the enemy can use because it forces them to cover receivers with their linebackers or, alternatively, to substitute in dbs whose responsibility is coverage. This actually simplifies pass blocking, because, unless they want to leave a receiver uncovered, the enemy's personnel options and individual responsibilities are limited.

3. The spread creates a tempo that forces enemy defenses to line up more quickly than is typical and reduces defensive substitutions. Because d-line rotations are minimized, the enemy tires more quickly giving the o-line an additional advantage.

4. The spread forces the enemy to defend the entire field - sideline to sideline. This does a couple of things ... it creates greater space for receivers to get separation more quickly and gives the quarterback a more immediate and accurate picture of the enemy alignment. Both of these factors contribute to getting the ball out of the quarterback's hands faster.

5. The spread typically makes the quarterback a legitimate running threat. This means that enemy defenses are forced to at least respect the idea of containment as opposed to mere aggression. They cannot anticipate that the quarterback will just stand in the pocket.

6. Finally, and most obviously, the spread normally employs the shotgun - designed, of course, for quarterbacks (in Lenny The Cool's terms) to survey the field more quickly and get the ball out sooner.

Feel free to bash me mercilessly and at will.

FAX

[kstater]

I respect your football takes without hesitation or question, Mr. keg in kc. Time and again, you have demonstrated extraordinary knowledge and insight when it comes to analyzing the great game.

Although I believe you are correct in your assessment that Gailey went with the "spread" primarily for Thigpen's benefit, I continue to think that there were also other factors that played into his decision.

This issue as to whether or not the spread actually benefits the o-line has been debated here, of course - with Mr. Mecca leading "Nyet" constituency. There are those who believe that the spread doesn't help the line and those who think the question isn't that simple. It is my view that the advantages of the spread (so far as pass protection is concerned) are somewhat subtle, yet no less compelling. Therefore, I would like to take this opportunity to present several reasons why the system actually takes some of the pressure off an offensive line that is having difficulty in pass protection because, when your line can't block, the faster you get the ball out of the quarterback's hands, the better.

1. As you mentioned. The spread lends itself to a quick passing attack - short hitches, hooks, etc. - and more frequent "hot" reads, and that's the key. Since the quarterback sees a more open ("spread out") field with space, hot reads are easier to make.

2. The spread formation reduces the number of alignments the enemy can use because it forces them to cover receivers with their linebackers or, alternatively, to substitute in dbs whose responsibility is coverage. This actually simplifies pass blocking, because, unless they want to leave a receiver uncovered, the enemy's personnel options and individual responsibilities are limited.

3. The spread creates a tempo that forces enemy defenses to line up more quickly than is typical and reduces defensive substitutions. Because d-line rotations are minimized, the enemy tires more quickly giving the o-line an additional advantage.

4. The spread forces the enemy to defend the entire field - sideline to sideline. This does a couple of things ... it creates greater space for receivers to get separation more quickly and gives the quarterback a more immediate and accurate picture of the enemy alignment. Both of these factors contribute to getting the ball out of the quarterback's hands faster.

5. The spread typically makes the quarterback a legitimate running threat. This means that enemy defenses are forced to at least respect the idea of containment as opposed to mere aggression. They cannot anticipate that the quarterback will just stand in the pocket.

6. Finally, and most obviously, the spread normally employs the shotgun - designed, of course, for quarterbacks (in Lenny The Cool's terms) to survey the field more quickly and get the ball out sooner.

Feel free to bash me mercilessly and at will.

FAX



Excellent points Mr. FAX. With more hot reads and quicker throws, more tired and hurried defenders, a field that is more open, and less pressure shouldn't a spread offense lead to a higher than average completion percentage?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Excellent points Mr. FAX. With more hot reads and quicker throws, more tired and hurried defenders, a field that is more open, and less pressure shouldn't a spread offense lead to a higher than average completion percentage?

If I were the opposition, and regardless of what D-scheme I normally ran?

I would line up two OLB's against the Chiefs, and I plow Thigpen's ass in to the ground all day long.

And you know what? No matter which team I coordinated for in the ENTIRE NFL, I would be dominantly, and wildly successful, every fucking game.

[Mecca]

If I were the opposition, and regardless of what D-scheme I normally ran?

I would line up two OLB's against the Chiefs, and I plow Thigpen's ass in to the ground all day long.

And you know what? No matter which team I coordinated for in the ENTIRE NFL, I would be dominantly, and wildly successful, every fucking game.

That is basically what Baltimore does if you lineup like that against them...

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

That is basically what Baltimore does if you lineup like that against them...

If you line up the Raven opponent up in the spread?

[keg in kc]

Lots and lots of well thought-out stuff....

FAXOh, I'll happily just concede those points as being as valid as they are. I'm guilty of talking in sweeping generalizations. But in the context of Thigpen, I think one question remains:

If the spread was implemented for the sake of the offensive line, then why did they not put it in from the start?

[-King-]

That is basically what Baltimore does if you lineup like that against them...

So how come when they played spreat teams they lost? They lost to Indy and to the Steelers twice.

[-King-]

Oh, I'll happily just concede those points as being as valid as they are. I'm guilty of talking in sweeping generalizations. But in the context of Thigpen, I think one question remains:

If the spread was implemented for the sake of the offensive line, then why did they not put it in from the start?

Hindsight is 20/20

No one knew that the pro would take out two qbs. They probably thought they had fixed the o line situation. Herm: "It's fine boys, It's fine". So Brodie going down..thats a fluke, then Huard went down and they could see the line wasnt fixed, so when Thiggy came in, they changed it up.

[Mecca]

So how come when they played spreat teams they lost? They lost to Indy and to the Steelers twice.

This shit is getting stupid, no other team in the NFL ran "the spread" other than the Chiefs lining up in the shotgun is not the spread.

Those teams all frequently go under center, this wasn't like the Chiefs who went under center basically never.

[keg in kc]

Hindsight is 20/20

No one knew that the pro would take out two qbs. They probably thought they had fixed the o line situation. Herm: "It's fine boys, It's fine". So Brodie going down..thats a fluke, then Huard went down and they could see the line wasnt fixed, so when Thigpen came in, they changed it up.Yeah, it must be that. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with Thigpen completing 40% of his passes or throwing 4 picks in 2 games.

[Mecca]

Yeah, it must be that. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with Thigpen completing 40% of his passes or throwing 4 picks in 2 games.

It is conveniently forgotten that Thigpen under center was one of the biggest abominations ever witnessed.

[-King-]

Yeah, it must be that. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with Thigpen completing 40% of his passes or throwing 4 picks in 2 games.

Hence the thread title.

I have no question that if we draft Sanchez or Stafford they'll wind up throwing 4 picks in 2 games. Thats how they develop. It will be their 1st year starting too. But of course, since they're Sanchez and Stafford, they'll get leeway because they are Gods to you.


BTW, I'm pro Stafford, but I dont see him getting to pick 3.

[Mecca]

Probably because they have more talent, aren't midgets and don't need to play in the spread?

You know they aren't equal, there are variables here in play.

[keg in kc]

Hence the thread title.

I have no question that if we draft Sanchez or Stafford they'll wind up throwing 4 picks in 2 games. Thats how they develop. It will be their 1st year starting too. But of course, since they're Sanchez and Stafford, they'll get leeway because they are Gods to youSanchez and Stafford don't even have to be part of the discussion. If there's a better answer in free agency, then so be it, I just don't want Thigpen handed the starting job.

(And fortunately I don't believe he will be)

[-King-]

This shit is getting stupid, no other team in the NFL ran "the spread" other than the Chiefs lining up in the shotgun is not the spread.

Those teams all frequently go under center, this wasn't like the Chiefs who went under center basically never.

The Colts run the majority(a good 70-85%) of their plays from shotgun. They usually have 3-5 wideouts in any given play. They played in the spread more and more because Addai was out so they had to use 4 wides on regular plays. That's spreading the field out hence the word "spread".

Tell me the difference between them running their plays from shotgun and us running our plays from shotgun. What about the Cardinals, what's the difference? Dont talk about Thigpen, just talk about the difference in the schemes because as you say, they arent the same.

[Hammock Parties]

I have a better chance of getting laid.

[-King-]

Sanchez and Stafford don't even have to be part of the discussion. If there's a better answer in free agency, then so be it, I just don't want Thigpen handed the starting job.

(And fortunately I don't believe he will be)

I hope he wont be handed the starting job. Thats just idiotic. If a player outplays him in TC and preseason, then I hope Thigpen brings a butt cushion to games cause he'll be riding that pine.

[-King-]

I have a better chance of getting laid.

ROFL :clap:

[Mecca]

Did they run the pistol?

Are their QB's capable of doing more than that? Oh shit they are right?

[-King-]

Did they run the pistol?

Are their QB's capable of doing more than that? Oh shit they are right?

Do you know if Thigpen is capable of doing more than that? No. So what are you saying? Oh you're going to pull the ATL game to show he cant play from under center. Well I suppose I'll pull out the Chiefs vs. patriots game to show that Tom Brady sucks and needs to sit on the bench. I mean, he threw 4 picks that game, including 3 to the same person, there is no way in hell he should be considered a franchise qb.

Face it, you dont know what Thigpen can do. You didnt know that he could play in the spread last year before he was inserted into the starting role. You dont know what he can or cant do with a full off season training. I'd like to see any qb come from a position of running other teams plays(scout O) to the starting line up and not have the game plan changed in his favor. That would be idiotic of the OC.

[FAX]

Oh, I'll happily just concede those points as being as valid as they are. I'm guilty of talking in sweeping generalizations. But in the context of Thigpen, I think one question remains:

If the spread was implemented for the sake of the offensive line, then why did they not put it in from the start?

My take is that it was a perfect sh*t storm. Thigpen was the quarterback by attrition and he was most comfortable in that offense, the run game went to crap for a lot of reasons, and Gailey didn't realize just how bad our o-line was until he had a chance to watch some game tape. That's my guess, anyhow.

FAX

[Mecca]

Do you know if Thigpen is capable of doing more than that? No. So what are you saying? Oh you're going to pull the ATL game to show he cant play from under center. Well I suppose I'll pull out the Chiefs vs. patriots game to show that Tom Brady sucks and needs to sit on the bench. I mean, he threw 4 picks that game, including 3 to the same person, there is no way in hell he should be considered a franchise qb.

Face it, you dont know what Thigpen can do. You didnt know that he could play in the spread last year before he was inserted into the starting role. You dont know what he can or cant do with a full off season training. I'd like to see any qb come from a position of running other teams plays(scout O) to the starting line up and not have the game plan changed in his favor. That would be idiotic of the OC.

I point to the Falcons and Raiders games for evidence of Thigpen playing in a normal offense.

[keg in kc]

My take is that it was a perfect sh*t storm. Thigpen was the quarterback by attrition and he was most comfortable in that offense, the run game went to crap for a lot of reasons, and Gailey didn't realize just how bad our o-line was until he had a chance to watch some game tape. That's my guess, anyhow.

FAXI believe the actual answer (could probably dig this up from an interview with, ah, Gailey I think it was, if I wasn't lazy as hell) was that they thought Thigpen looked so much more comfortable in the 2-minute offense that they decided they'd try it out full-time.

[FAX]

I believe the actual answer (could probably dig this up from an interview with, ah, Gailey I think it was, if I wasn't lazy as hell) was that they thought Thigpen looked so much more comfortable in the 2-minute offense that they decided they'd try it out full-time.

Ah ... now that you mention it, I do remember that interview. Hmmm. That changes everything.

Please disregard all my previous posts on the subject.

FAX

[chiefzilla1501]

I point to the Falcons and Raiders games for evidence of Thigpen playing in a normal offense.

Jay Cutler fumbled the ball 5 times and threw for less than 200 yards his first two games--he was a complete disaster. Care to look at Eli Manning's first 4 or 5 games in the NFL? 17 for 37, 162 yards, 1TD, 1INT. Game 2: 6 for 21, 148 yards, 0TD, 1INT. Game 3: 12 for 25, 113 yards, 0TD, 1INT. Game 4: 4 for 18, 0 TD, 2INT. Philip Rivers came in against Denver in his first meaningful time and fumbled the ball twice in one half.

I don't think anyone would argue that these guys failed in their first starts because they didn't know how to run a pro style offense. They failed because they had wet feet. We haven't seen any proof that he can run a pro style offense, but we also can't claim that he can't--way too limited a data to make that claim.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

This shit is getting stupid, no other team in the NFL ran "the spread" other than the Chiefs lining up in the shotgun is not the spread.

Those teams all frequently go under center, this wasn't like the Chiefs who went under center basically never.

It is conveniently forgotten that Thigpen under center was one of the biggest abominations ever witnessed.

I have a better chance of getting laid.

ROFLROFLROFL

[keg in kc]

Jay Cutler fumbled the ball 5 times and threw for less than 200 yards his first two games--he was a complete disaster. Care to look at Eli Manning's first 4 or 5 games in the NFL? 17 for 37, 162 yards, 1TD, 1INT. Game 2: 6 for 21, 148 yards, 0TD, 1INT. Game 3: 12 for 25, 113 yards, 0TD, 1INT. Game 4: 4 for 18, 0 TD, 2INT. Philip Rivers came in against Denver in his first meaningful time and fumbled the ball twice in one half.

I don't think anyone would argue that these guys failed in their first starts because they didn't know how to run a pro style offense. They failed because they had wet feet. We haven't seen any proof that he can run a pro style offense, but we also can't claim that he can't--way too limited a data to make that claim.That would be an interesting point if the broncos had scrapped their offense so Cutler could run something else, or the giants had scrapped their offense so Manning could run something else, or the chargers had scrapped their offense so Rivers could run something else.

Other than that, why, yes, great point.

'cause, well, the Chiefs realized Thigpen couldn't run it, even if you can't.

[chiefzilla1501]

That would be an interesting point if the broncos had scrapped their offense so Cutler could run something else, or the giants had scrapped their offense so Manning could run something else, or the chargers had scrapped their offense so Rivers could run something else.

Other than that, why, yes, great point.

'cause, well, the Chiefs realized Thigpen couldn't run it, even if you can't.

The point being that running a pro-style offense takes time, even for NFL QBs who ran it in college. And those above examples are clear examples of QBs who are doing well now that struggled with it when they first started. So to say that his struggles in his first two games is proof that he can't run it is ignoring what happened to people in the past.

So would Thigpen have learned the offense if the Chiefs had stuck with it? I don't know. None of us do. And one theory is that the Chiefs scrapped the pro style offense because Thigpen couldn't run it. But there's another theory that they ran it because it was working so well in practice. And for good reason--we were getting production out of our offense that we hadn't seen in 2 years.

Like I said... Thigpen must prove he can run a pro-style offense. But I think saying he can't run it because the team switched to a spread and because he struggled in his first two starts isn't telling the whole story.

[keg in kc]

Thigpen must prove he can run a pro-style offense.And I say, fine, let him. Give him all the offseason to work on it. And draft a QB high if the right one's there and bring in as good a free agent as you can.

If the plan is nothing but "let's see if thigpen can do it" we might as well just scrap this entire rebuild now, because the Chiefs will never be competitive, not going about things that way.

[big nasty kcnut]

I think he will. Get a training camp under coach haley will help him.
Posted via the power of my mind.

[chiefzilla1501]

And I say, fine, let him. Give him all the offseason to work on it. And draft a QB high if the right one's there and bring in as good a free agent as you can.

If the plan is nothing but "let's see if thigpen can do it" we might as well just scrap this entire rebuild now, because the Chiefs will never be competitive, not going about things that way.

I have always been about 95% on the ship of "we need to draft a top 5 QB." I just don't agree with people who say that it would then be the top 5 QB's job to lose. I think you draft a top 5 QB and force him to beat out Thigpen and it's Thigpen's job to lose. As I've said before, if Thigpen is as bad and completely incapable of improving as people say, then that shouldn't be tall of an order.

[keg in kc]

I have always been about 95% on the ship of "we need to draft a top 5 QB." I just don't agree with people who say that it would then be the top 5 QB's job to lose. I think you draft a top 5 QB and force him to beat out Thigpen and it's Thigpen's job to lose. As I've said before, if Thigpen is as bad and completely incapable of improving as people say, then that shouldn't be tall of an order.I'm in the camp that says good quarterbacks can be groomed. There's no reason to throw a rookie to the wolves. If he looks like Matt Ryan in camp, then fine, he wins the job, but I don't have any problem at all with a rookie not playing until later in the year.

But that said, you don't draft a top-5 quarterback with the idea that he's going to be behind Tyler Thigpen or anybody else on the depth chart for long.

[DenverChief]

I'm going to laugh my ball sack off when the Chiefs don't draft Sanchez/Stafford in the first and this place melts down!

Bringon Crabtree/Curry!

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I think he will. Get a training camp under coach haley will help him.
Posted via Mobile Device

If by "help him" you mean a long series of expletives that end in a premature bus ride back to KC and an empty locker at One Arrowhead Drive, then we are in complete agreement. :D

[keg in kc]

I'm going to laugh my ball sack off when the Chiefs don't draft Sanchez/Stafford in the first and this place melts down!There's going to be a meltdown either way. So many people are opposed to sanchez because mecca and dane are so vehement about him, that if they did draft him, it's going to be hilarious.

I don't think another pick would make a whole lot of sense, personally, but we haven't had the combine or workouts yet, and the draft ratings are all guesswork right now. I'm fine with not going QB, but if that's the case, they've got some serious work to do in free agency. Because unless Huard comes back off IR, we have no quarterback other than Thigpen.

(Personally I think it would be funny if they brought in Leftwich, and he beat out Thigpen. Talk about confusing the Thigpen disciples).

[DenverChief]

There's going to be a meltdown either way. So many people are opposed to sanchez because mecca and dane are so vehement about him, that if they did draft him, it's going to be hilarious.

I don't think another pick would make a whole lot of sense, personally, but we haven't had the combine or workouts yet, and the draft ratings are all guesswork right now. I'm fine with not going QB, but if that's the case, they've got some serious work to do in free agency. Because unless Huard comes back off IR, we have no quarterback other than Thigpen.

(Personally I think it would be funny if they brought in Leftwich, and he beat out Thigpen. Talk about confusing the Thigpen disciples).

Isn't Gray on the roster still? I'm not opposed to drafting a QB just not with the #1...yes we need a good Vet QB to throw some competetion ...personally I think that we will get a WR ....the Larry Fitzgerald strategy

[keg in kc]

Isn't Gray on the roster still?I'm talking about a QB who we actually expect to play...I'm not opposed to drafting a QB just not with the #1...If a QBs worth the #3 (which is up to them to decide), they'd be nuts not to take him. That's the one position you can't afford to pass up.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I'm talking about a QB who we actually expect to play...If a QBs worth the #3 (which is up to them to decide), they'd be nuts not to take him. That's the one position you can't afford to pass up.

You will cease and desist with that ther' "logic-talk" IMMEDIATELY! :D

[chiefzilla1501]

I'm in the camp that says good quarterbacks can be groomed. There's no reason to throw a rookie to the wolves. If he looks like Matt Ryan in camp, then fine, he wins the job, but I don't have any problem at all with a rookie not playing until later in the year.

But that said, you don't draft a top-5 quarterback with the idea that he's going to be behind Tyler Thigpen or anybody else on the depth chart for long.

I'm completely with you. I agree we need to take a top 5 pick and I agree that he shouldn't be rushed into starting. When I say it's Thigpen's job to lose, there's also a limit to how long you can keep testing Thigpen out before you realize he is or is not the answer. Jake Plummer was a perfect example--played pretty well in Cutler's rookie season, but the Broncos knew he wouldn't be taking them to the Super Bowl, so they scrapped him. In order for Thigpen to keep his job, he'll need to be as good as Drew Brees was when he kept his job in San Diego over Rivers.

I think there are a lot of people on board here who think that Ryan and Flacco are great examples of QBs who can thrive if they start right away. I don't buy it. In my opinion, they were really lucky to be surrounded by surprisingly outstanding running games. Flacco especially.

[DaneMcCloud]

I think there are a lot of people on board here who think that Ryan and Flacco are great examples of QBs who can thrive if they start right away. I don't buy it. In my opinion, they were really lucky to be surrounded by surprisingly outstanding running games. Flacco especially.

ROFL

Flacco, especially?

You're fucking moronic retard.

The Falcons were the #2 overall best rushing team.

The Ravens were 4th.

[keg in kc]

ROFL

Flacco, especially?

You're ****ing moronic retard.

The Falcons were the #2 overall best rushing team.

The Ravens were 4th.I believe that was his point.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I believe that was his point.

Yeah. Dane, you kinda' lost us on that one. Try again please. :D

[Mecca]

I'm going to laugh my ball sack off when the Chiefs don't draft Sanchez/Stafford in the first and this place melts down!

Bringon Crabtree/Curry!

Wanting the team to do the wrong think they can never be more than a fringe playoff team, is funny :spock:

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Wanting the team to do the wrong think they can never be more than a fringe playoff team, is funny :spock:

The effects of long-term exposure to Rocky Mountain piss water have been known to turn even the most solid Chiefs fan........"Colo-tardo", yes.

'Tis a sad state of affairs, it is. :evil:

[whoman69]

Any QB is going to be helped by a good running game, but they still have to have the talent to survive. The Vikings have a good running game, and that didn't exactly set the world on fire. To help out any QB on our team there has to be improvement on the oline. That will also help our run game, if we have a running back that is.

[milkman]

There's going to be a meltdown either way. So many people are opposed to sanchez because mecca and dane are so vehement about him, that if they did draft him, it's going to be hilarious.

I don't think another pick would make a whole lot of sense, personally, but we haven't had the combine or workouts yet, and the draft ratings are all guesswork right now. I'm fine with not going QB, but if that's the case, they've got some serious work to do in free agency. Because unless Huard comes back off IR, we have no quarterback other than Thigpen.

(Personally I think it would be funny if they brought in Leftwich, and he beat out Thigpen. Talk about confusing the Thigpen disciples).

Leftwich sucks, and yet, he would still beat out Thigpen in a competition to start.

It's sad how pathetic our QB situation is.

[Rausch]

Leftwich sucks, and yet, he would still beat out Thigpen in a competition to start.

It's sad how pathetic our QB situation is.

Why can't we just be happy with Thigpen being a great 3rd stringer?

Honestly, who the **** has a guy 3 deep who can run any offense as good as he did when you consider his whole body of work this year?

He was thrown into the starting role behind a beat up team and did better than anyone thought he could.

That's it, and that should be enough. Quict trying to make him the messiah or the fry cook at Sonic...

[tmax63]

I'm not saying that Thiggy is the answer. I'm am saying that the jury is still out on Thiggy. He played horribly in his first 2 starts in a pro-set. So has about 80% of qb's that take the field. He also doubled the point output of the Chiefs offense after that in the spread. If the Chiefs draft Sanchez I can see Thiggy starting most of next year because, no matter how much you love USC, starting 1 year in college does not prepare you for the NFL.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Why can't we just be happy with Thigpen being a great 3rd stringer?

Honestly, who the **** has a guy 3 deep who can run any offense as good as he did when you consider his whole body of work this year?

He was thrown into the starting role behind a beat up team and did better than anyone thought he could.

That's it, and that should be enough. Quict trying to make him the messiah or the fry cook at Sonic...

We've demoted him to 3rd string now? ROFL The Planet is a harsh mistress!

[Reerun_KC]

We've demoted him to 3rd string now? ROFL The Planet is a harsh mistress!'
I wouldnt even have him on the team... I would dump all 4 shitbags we have on the roster and start over... It couldnt get ANY worse...

[DeezNutz]

Not only could Leftwich beat out Thigpen in a direct competition, but so could *gasp* Joey Harrington.

Now that would be fun.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

'
I wouldnt even have him on the team... I would dump all 4 shitbags we have on the roster and start over... It couldnt get ANY worse...

Croyle was signed in 2006; was his contract a three-year deal?

What about old Grandpa Huard?

[Reerun_KC]

Croyle was signed in 2006; was his contract a three-year deal?

What old Grandpa Huard?

In reality it is time to unload and reload... We really dont have a QB that we can invest anytime in for the future...

Hell Thigpen cant even throw the simple out pattern with any consistency...

IF we chose to draft one, then we need a FA vet or two to provide competition in TC and OTA's...

[Coogs]

This may have been posted before, but in case it has not been I think it deserves some mention. At the Combine today, they were talking about the top of the draft and teams needing a QB. John Gruden stated that if a team is picking in the top 5 they usually have QB issues. And he said the Lions, Rams, Chiefs, and Seahawks all have needs at the QB position.

I am paraphrasing that, but it is pretty close.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

This may have been posted before, but in case it has not been I think it deserves some mention. At the Combine today, they were talking about the top of the draft and teams needing a QB. John Gruden stated that if a team is picking in the top 5 they usually have QB issues. And he said the Lions, Rams, Chiefs, and Seahawks all have needs at the QB position.

I am paraphrasing that, but it is pretty close.

I saw that interview. Could they possibly, to a greater degree, wash the balls of a guy who wouldn't even throw?

That shit was sickening.


And fuck John Gruden.

[Tribal Warfare]

This may have been posted before, but in case it has not been I think it deserves some mention. At the Combine today, they were talking about the top of the draft and teams needing a QB. John Gruden stated that if a team is picking in the top 5 they usually have QB issues. And he said the Lions, Rams, Chiefs, and Seahawks all have needs at the QB position.

I am paraphrasing that, but it is pretty close.

Yep "if your picking in the top 5 you have a problem with the quarterback position"

[chiefzilla1501]

This may have been posted before, but in case it has not been I think it deserves some mention. At the Combine today, they were talking about the top of the draft and teams needing a QB. John Gruden stated that if a team is picking in the top 5 they usually have QB issues. And he said the Lions, Rams, Chiefs, and Seahawks all have needs at the QB position.

I am paraphrasing that, but it is pretty close.

He's right, except that he's wrong in saying that the Seahawks and Rams have QB issues. Hasselbeck is a very good QB and Bulger is a good QB if his offensive line can keep him on his feet.

[whoman69]

Leftwich sucks, and yet, he would still beat out Thigpen in a competition to start.

It's sad how pathetic our QB situation is.

You think we're the only pathetic team out there? I heard to day Minnesota was looking for Sage Rosenfels to be their starter. How pathetic is that?

[The Buddha]

In reality it is time to unload and reload... We really dont have a QB that we can invest anytime in for the future...

Hell Thigpen cant even throw the simple out pattern with any consistency...

IF we chose to draft one, then we need a FA vet or two to provide competition in TC and OTA's...

Out patterns are hard... You don't think he'll get any better?

[Reerun_KC]

Out patterns are hard... You don't think he'll get any better?No and dont care to waste time on him "trying" to get better...

Time to move on with NFL level QB's, we dont have one on the current roster.

[The Buddha]

No and dont care to waste time on him "trying" to get better...

Time to move on with NFL level QB's, we dont have one on the current roster.

That's cool. I think he should at least be kept as a backup, though.