Gailey is offensive coordinator

[Mr. Laz]

more to be named on 810 coming up

/edit with more details

Kansas City Chiefs add Maurice Carthon to Coaching Staff

Feb 19, 2009, 3:51:39 PM


The Kansas City Chiefs announced on Thursday that the club has added Maurice Carthon to head coach Todd Haley’s coaching staff. Carthon will serve as assistant head coach.

Carthon owns 15 years of NFL coaching experience and most recently served two seasons as the running backs coach with Arizona (2007-08). Prior to joining the Cardinals, he was the offensive coordinator for Cleveland (2005-06). The Osceola, Arkansas native served as the offensive coordinator/running backs coach for two seasons with Dallas (2003-04). He spent two campaigns with Detroit (2001-02), one each as running backs coach (2001) and offensive coordinator (2002). He served as the running backs coach for four years with the N.Y. Jets (’97-00) and also held the post of assistant head coach in 2000. Carthon began his coaching career with New England (’94-96).

In addition, the Chiefs announced the responsibilities of six other members of Kansas City’s coaching staff:

Chan Gailey (offensive coordinator)
Bob Bicknell (tight ends)
Joe D’Alessandris (assistant offensive line)
Steve Hoffman (special teams)
Bill Muir (offensive line)
Dedric Ward (wide receivers)

[Anyong Bluth]

Assistant head coach and other guys named, coming up after the break...

[ArrowheadHawk]

Good for him.
Posted via Mobile Device

[KCrockaholic]

thats what i figured...

[Molitoth]

That might mean that we are keeping Gonzo and Thigpen will prolly be named the to-be starting QB imo. IF we go to a 3-4 we are going to have to really focus on some defensive players.

[Mr. Laz]

maybe crennel told them he was gonna go ahead and sit out a year

[Molitoth]

Lets see what Scott can Pioli out of his ass.

[Mr. Laz]

That might mean that we are keeping Gonzo and Thigpen will prolly be named the to-be starting QB imo. IF we go to a 3-4 we are going to have to really focus on some defensive players.
maybe ... but i doubt they announce the starter at QB

[Mr. Laz]

maurice carthon is assistant Head Coach
bob bicknell is tightend
hoffman is special teams
ward is wide receivers

[booger]

Kansas City Chiefs add Maurice Carthon to Coaching Staff
Feb 19, 2009, 3:51:39 PM


The Kansas City Chiefs announced on Thursday that the club has added Maurice Carthon to head coach Todd Haley’s coaching staff. Carthon will serve as assistant head coach.

Carthon owns 15 years of NFL coaching experience and most recently served two seasons as the running backs coach with Arizona (2007-08). Prior to joining the Cardinals, he was the offensive coordinator for Cleveland (2005-06). The Osceola, Arkansas native served as the offensive coordinator/running backs coach for two seasons with Dallas (2003-04). He spent two campaigns with Detroit (2001-02), one each as running backs coach (2001) and offensive coordinator (2002). He served as the running backs coach for four years with the N.Y. Jets (’97-00) and also held the post of assistant head coach in 2000. Carthon began his coaching career with New England (’94-96).

In addition, the Chiefs announced the responsibilities of six other members of Kansas City’s coaching staff: Chan Gailey (offensive coordinator), Bob Bicknell (tight ends), Joe D’Alessandris (assistant offensive line), Steve Hoffman (special teams), Bill Muir (offensive line) and Dedric Ward (wide receivers).

http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2009/02/19/kansas_city_chiefs_add_maurice_carthon_to_coaching_staff/

[boogblaster]

Good, I thought Gailey pulled out a few rabbits last year ...

[DaneMcCloud]

Wow, Mo Carthon.

I don't know what to think. There were reports of that guy being a psycho hot head in the past. Supposedly that's the reason he's never been considered for a head coaching gig.

[Sully]

I'm willing to bet the DC hasn't been hired, yet

[KCrockaholic]

why are we turning into the Cardinals!?!?!?!

[KCrockaholic]

I'm willing to bet the DC hasn't been hired, yet

Crennel!! please!!!

[stabber73]

prolly because they have been in the super bowl in the more recent history compared to...yeah that long ago

[Chiefnj2]

We are hitting the Parcells tree.

Look for the draft to build from the inside out.

[FAX]

Okay. Stupid question time.

It's become standard operating procedure for NFL teams to have a specific coach for each main position (offensive line, linebackers, etc.). However, there is one special teams coach who (I suppose) is responsible for field goals as well as punts and kickoffs (both kicking and return teams). That seems a little strange to me. One would think that there is difference enough between return teams and kicking teams to warrant specialization in those areas. No?

FAX

[DaneMcCloud]

We are hitting the Parcells tree.

Look for the draft to build from the inside out.

I think it'll start from behind center, then from the inside out.

:D

[talastan]

Okay. Stupid question time.

It's become standard operating procedure for NFL teams to have a specific coach for each main position (offensive line, linebackers, etc.). However, there is one special teams coach who (I suppose) is responsible for field goals as well as punts and kickoffs (both kicking and return teams). That seems a little strange to me. One would think that there is difference enough between return teams and kicking teams to warrant specialization in those areas. No?

FAX

Something I've always wondered as well. Seems like you'd like an offensive influence for the kicking side, and a defensive influence for the coverage unit. :hmmm:

[dirk digler]

I am warming up to this staff

[DaneMcCloud]

I am warming up to this staff

I guess we're going in opposite directions.

I'm really shocked at Mo Carthon. The guy's really never done anything and was ousted in Cleveland after one season as the OC because he was a dick AND the offense sucked.

Assistant Head Coach?

And so many people thought Dick Curl was bad.

[talastan]

Okay my real concern for the offensive staff....QB coach? :shrug: This will be the most important positional coach this year. Whether we draft Stafford/Sanchez or go with Thigpen they'll need someone to help develop them. Hasn't been brought up yet.

[dirk digler]

I guess we're going in opposite directions.

I'm really shocked at Mo Carthon. The guy's really never done anything and was ousted in Cleveland after one season as the OC because he was a dick AND the offense sucked.

Assistant Head Coach?

And so many people thought Dick Curl was bad.

I thought he was an up and coming coach when he was in Dallas?

BTW Thanks for the info I didn't know that he had a bad reputation.

[alpha_omega]

why are we turning into the Cardinals!?!?!?!

not sure, but they WERE in the Super Bowl this year!

Not sure it is a totally bad thing.

[DaneMcCloud]

Okay my real concern for the offensive staff....QB coach? :shrug: This will be the most important positional coach this year. Whether we draft Stafford/Sanchez or go with Thigpen they'll need someone to help develop them. Hasn't been brought up yet.

Well at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if it was Ron Erhardt.

How many more Parcells guys are lying around?

[dirk digler]

Okay my real concern for the offensive staff....QB coach? :shrug: This will be the most important positional coach this year. Whether we draft Stafford/Sanchez or go with Thigpen they'll need someone to help develop them. Hasn't been brought up yet.

I think Haley will do that.

[ArrowheadHawk]

I am warming up to this staff
I will wait till sept.
Posted via Mobile Device

[DaneMcCloud]

I thought he was an up and coming coach when he was in Dallas?

BTW Thanks for the info I didn't know that he had a bad reputation.

He was only in Dallas because of Parcells.

Actually, his whole entire career is due to Parcells.

[Mr. Arrowhead]

I think Maurice Carthon is great addition to the staff

[kcxiv]

Going to give everyone on this staff a chance. We will see what happens. New sherrifs are in town, so lets see how they do first.

I dont expect to much for the 09 season. I just want them to at least get to 8-8 and show some signs of them getting better.

[Gravedigger]

why are we turning into the Cardinals!?!?!?!

good question.

[dirk digler]

http://www.cantonrep.com/sports/browns/x565954746/Carthon-lands-on-his-feet-as-Cardinals-assistant

TAMPA, FLA. —
Never mind that his No. 1 quarterbacks were Trent Dilfer, a never-quite-was who was washed up, and Charlie Frye, a never-will-be who definitely wasn’t ready.

Never mind that his No. 1 running back was Reuben Droughns, now a fourth-string running back with the Giants. Or that his arrival in Cleveland coincided with Kellen Winslow Jr. blowing away the 2005 season on a Suzuki and crashed when rookie Braylon Edwards blew out a knee.

All any Browns fan knew about Mo Carthon was his offense was miserable. All anybody remembers is he couldn’t have left too soon — as it turned out, six games into his second season as offensive coordinator of the Browns, in 2006.

“I’m not gonna sit here and say it was a rough experience, but ...”

Carthon said that Tuesday from the catbird’s seat.

He was lounging in the lower bowl of Raymond James Stadium, with a perfect view of that funky pirate ship behind the end zone. He was chilling before work; his new job is running backs coach of the Arizona Cardinals.

That’s right. Mo Carthon, who was 7-15 as offensive coordinator of the Browns, is in Super Bowl XLIII.

Whatever Carthon’s shortcomings in 21 months with the Browns, he’s back to being the fellow who won two Super Bowls as a Giants player, and is in his second Super Bowl as an assistant coach.

“If we beat a team as good as Pittsburgh is,” said Carthon, clearly enjoying the moment, “that will be a tremendous feeling.”

Carthon has done the full Gulliver’s Travels version of an NFL life. When he was finished as a hard-nosed fullback with Bill Parcells’ Giants, Carthon found work in New England after Parcells took over the Patriots. Parcells jumped to the Jets. Carthon jumped too, spending three years on a staff that included Eric Mangini.

Parcells landed in Dallas. Carthon popped up as his offensive coordinator, albeit without play-calling power. Along the way, Carthon both played and coached on teams that included Romeo Crennel.

“When Romeo got the head coaching job in Cleveland,” Carthon said, “he brought me in, gave me a great opportunity to call plays. I owe him all that.”

It wasn’t a great situation. The Browns were coming off a 4-12 year when Carthon arrived. They were showing signs of life on offense after Frye replaced Dilfer late in the season. Droughns was on his way to a 1,232-yard rushing year. Edwards was having a monster game against Jacksonville when he was hurt.

Edwards’ injury was a killer. The Browns lost, 41-0, at home against Pittsburgh on Christmas Eve. General Manager Phil Savage was ready to pull the plug on Carthon then, but Crennel fought for him to stay into the ’06 season.

Carthon was replaced by Jeff Davidson after six games.

“I just wish it would have worked out ... especially for Randy Lerner, because Randy treated me great when I was there,” Carthon said. “Randy supported me as much as he could. Once it got out of his hands, it was out of his hands.”

While Carthon goes about his Super Bowl business, the Browns are trying to get it right behind a head coach (Mangini) and general manager (George Kokinis) who get along.

Carthon said successful teams he has been on have harmony between the coaching staff and player personnel department.

“If everybody’s on the same page in the whole building, players, front office, coaches, scouts ... if everybody’s one happy family, it works well,” Carthon said. “Ken Whisenhunt has done a good job seeing that happens with the Cardinals.

“If you don’t work well together, you don’t have chance at all.”

Carthon spoke to Crennel shortly after the Cardinals qualified for the Super Bowl.

“I don’t know whether he gets to stay in Cleveland in some capacity or not,” Carthon said. “I do know the first thing he told me was vintage Romeo. ‘Tell your players to celebrate a little bit, but not too much. There’s one more game to go.’

“I wish he could have been telling me that in Cleveland, but ...”

[DaneMcCloud]

I dont expect to much for the 09 season. I just want them to at least get to 8-8 and show some signs of them getting better.

8-8 in 2009?

[Sully]

Crennel!! please!!!

I have a feeling he's gonna be the guy.

[kcxiv]

8-8 in 2009?

Its certainly possible, hell we lost 7 games by 7 points or less. There is no reason why we cant win at least 7-9 games this season. Who thought teams like Miami and Atlanta would go to the play offs? If you don't think the team can do that, then fine. We all have opinions. I dont agree with alot of yours and you dont have to agree with any of mine.

[Mr. Laz]

with Cauthon being the assistant head coach is would sure be another positive to Crennel coming here

[ArrowheadHawk]

I have a feeling he's gonna be the guy.

That would be awesome.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Archie Bunker]

I am expecting too much for the 09 season. I just want them to at least get to 8-8 and show some signs of them getting better.


FYP

[kcxiv]

FYP

You didnt fix shit. I stand by my original post.

[Micjones]

My guess...

Head Coach: Todd Haley
Offensive Coordinator: Chan Gailey
Offensive Line Coach: Bill Muir
Assistant Offensive Line: Joe D'Alessandris
Tight Ends Coach: Bob Bicknell
Runningbacks Coach: ???
Quarterbacks Coach: ???
Wide Receivers Coach: Dedric Ward
Special Teams Coach: Steve Hoffman

I'm batting 1.000 thus far.
We've been so concerned with what MAY be questionable defensive additions to the coaching staff (we could still snag Crennel, let's wait and see) that we've completely glossed over two excellent acquisitions in Muir and Hoffman.

[Anyong Bluth]

I'm willing to bet the DC hasn't been hired, yet

Agreed! It may be RC, but he just had hip surgery and probably can't commit either way for the coming year until he sees how he's recovering. It's seems sort of logical that if they hired the guys they did, and didn't come out and announce the O & D coordinators, it is probably because they were waiting to get final word of other guys decisions. Cathon = Assistant HC and RB coach, and so Chan named O coordinator b/c the O coaches have been filled out. Are we just waiting to hear back about 1 or a few guys we may want as D coordinator, and then they'll announce the D?

We are hitting the Parcells tree.

Look for the draft to build from the inside out.

Big fan of starting with ensuring talent on both lines and going from there.
Still think a QB should be taken w/ the 3rd.

[blueballs]

February 19, 2009 - Bob Gretz | Comments (2)

Todd Haley continued to add to his coaching staff announcing Thursday afternoon that Maurice Carthon will serve as assistant head coach.

Carthon comes over from the Arizona Cardinals, where he spent the last two seasons as the team’s running backs coach. He’s the third member of that Cardinals staff to follow Haley, joining Clancy Pendergast and Dedric Ward.

He also brings another Bill Parcells protege to join Haley and Bill Muir, along with Scott Pioli.

It appears that Carthon will handle the running backs for the Chiefs staff. That’s certainly something he knows a lot about, having spent 11 years in pro football playing the fullback position. Coming out of Arkansas State, he played for three years (1983-85) with the New Jersey Generals of the United States Football League. Although his main duties were to block for Herschel Walker with the Generals, he did run for 1,042 yards and 11 touchdowns during the 1984 USFL season.

He then spent seven seasons with the New York Giants (1985-91) and a final season with the Indianapolis Colts (1992). He was part of the Giants Super Bowl winning teams under Bill Parcells in the 1986 and 1990 seasons.

Carthon now owns 15 years of coaching experience in the NFL. Prior to his two seasons in Arizona, he was the offensive coordinator for Romeo Crennel with the Cleveland Browns (2005-06). Before that, he was the offensive coordinator/running backs coach for two seasons under Parcells with the Dallas Cowboys (2003-04). He was two seasons with the Detroit Lions (2001-02), first as running backs coach and then offensive coordinator for head coach Marty Mornhinweg. Carthon was the running backs coach for four years with the New York Jets (1997-2000), three of those years under Parcells and the last under Al Groh. He was Groh’s assistant head coach in 2000.

Carthon began his coaching career with the New England Patriots (1994-96) under Parcells as an offensive assistant, running backs coach and special teams assistant.

Haley announced the responsibilities of six other members of Kansas City’s coaching staff: Chan Gailey (offensive coordinator), Bob Bicknell (tight ends), Joe D’Alessandris (assistant offensive line), Steve Hoffman (special teams), Bill Muir (offensive line) and Dedric Ward (wide receivers).

Only position missing would seem to be quarterbacks coach, although those duties may fall to Gailey.

The addition of Carthon now gives the Chiefs four different coaches who have held the title of offensive coordinator in the NFL: Carthon, Haley, Gailey and Muir.

[DaneMcCloud]

Its certainly possible, hell we lost 7 games by 7 points or less. There is no reason why we cant win at least 7-9 games this season. Who thought teams like Miami and Atlanta would go to the play offs? If you don't think the team can do that, then fine. We all have opinions. I dont agree with alot of yours and you dont have to agree with any of mine.

There's no way the Chiefs win 7 games in 2009. The most they'll win is 5 at best.

They play everyone in the AFC West twice, along with teams from the NFC East and AFC North. They'd have to split with each of their divisional opponents and steal a game from the Browns, Jaguars or Bengals to reach even 5 wins.

There's no WAY they're going to beat the Redskins, Eagles, Cowboys, Ravens, Steelers, Giants or Bills.

5 games. Tops.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Maybe the best bet would be to draft Crabtree at #3.

If Gailey is still the OC, you gotta know we're calling for the fade at least 2 of 3 times in goal-to-go situations.

[CoMoChief]

why are we turning into the Cardinals!?!?!?!

This is more the fact that Haley's worked with people in the past while under Parcells. Many coaches are from the Cowboys Parcells era.

[Archie Bunker]

You didnt fix shit. I stand by my original post.

Alright, I admire your optimism.

[blueballs]

So Mo and LJ
hothead vs asshole

[kstater]

Maybe the best bet would be to draft Crabtree at #3.

If Gailey is still the OC, you gotta know we're calling for the fade at least 2 of 3 times in goal-to-go situations.

What's the point of having 3 possession recievers, Thigpen's just going to chuck it to TG anyway. Trade Bowe and have a 7 lineman set. :D

[The Franchise]

There's no way the Chiefs win 7 games in 2009. The most they'll win is 5 at best.

They play everyone in the AFC West twice, along with teams from the NFC East and AFC North. They'd have to split with each of their divisional opponents and steal a game from the Browns, Jaguars or Bengals to reach even 5 wins.

There's no WAY they're going to beat the Redskins, Eagles, Cowboys, Ravens, Steelers, Giants or Bills.

5 games. Tops.

This.

[Micjones]

There's no WAY they're going to beat the Redskins, Eagles, Cowboys, Ravens, Steelers, Giants or Bills.

5 games. Tops.

Any given Sunday.

The Skins lost to both St. Louis and the Bengals last season.
I'm not suggesting that we're going to be a good football team, but to say there's "no way" we could beat 1 or 3 of those teams is ridiculous.

This is the NFL.

[Mr. Arrowhead]

Its a coaching staff that will get on your ass, I LIKE IT!!!

[ArrowheadHawk]

Five games is an improvement on the last two years.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Anyong Bluth]

This.

Agreed.

But who cares. The schedule is brutal, and it's not like we are just a piece or 2 away from the dynasty.


I'm more than happy to take another season with a bad record and get another year of high draft picks in each round. This of course is assuming that we prove to draft well and it looks like the coaches and players are making progress and show some promise. (I think anyone that watches football knows what I'm talking about in terms of young teams that lose but show a number of positives and continued growth)

We got the cap, let's fill the cupboard.

[DeepSouth]

Wow, Mo Carthon.

I don't know what to think. There were reports of that guy being a psycho hot head in the past. Supposedly that's the reason he's never been considered for a head coaching gig.

Maybe he's on the staff just to deal with Larry Johnson.

[DaneMcCloud]

Any given Sunday.

The Skins lost to both St. Louis and the Bengals last season.
I'm not suggesting that we're going to be a good football team, but to say there's "no way" we could beat 1 or 3 of those teams is ridiculous.

This is the NFL.

Then you and I are looking at two completely different NFL rosters.

Either way, the Chiefs will not win more than 5 games in 2009.

Regardless of who they actually beat to get there.

[Frosty]

Muir was Offensive Coordinator for Tampa Bay last year but didn't call the plays. Chucky did.

I wonder if there will be a similar set up for the Chiefs with Chan as OC but Haley calling the plays on game day?

[talastan]

Muir was Offensive Coordinator for Tampa Bay last year but didn't call the plays. Chucky did.

I wonder if there will be a similar set up for the Chiefs with Chan as OC but Haley calling the plays on game day?


I think that Haley is going to let Gailey call most of the plays but will supercede his calls if necessary. Same with the D. Look at the staff he is surrounding himself with. All veteran coaches and coordinators. He's not going to take a whole lot on his first year as a HC. JMO though...

[Anyong Bluth]

I think that Haley is going to let Gailey call most of the plays but will supercede his calls if necessary. Same with the D. Look at the staff he is surrounding himself with. All veteran coaches and coordinators. He's not going to take a whole lot on his first year as a HC. JMO though...


Wouldn't shock me either if he and Chan sit down and script the 1st series or 2 for the games each week. Chan may call the plays, but it's not like it's that hard for the 2 to talk over the radio when their are more crucial plays based on down and distance...

Half the time last year, Chan could have pre recorded RRPP and taken a nap during the game thanks to Herm's restrictions.

[Micjones]

Then you and I are looking at two completely different NFL rosters.

Either way, the Chiefs will not win more than 5 games in 2009.

Regardless of who they actually beat to get there.

I'm not arguing that the team will win more than 5 games next season.
I'm saying that any team is beatable on Sundays.

[KCrockaholic]

I have a feeling he's gonna be the guy.

That would be nice, but im gonna croak when they end up saying it is Gary Gibbs :(

[DaneMcCloud]

I'm not arguing that the team will win more than 5 games next season.
I'm saying that any team is beatable on Sundays.

The Chiefs and Lions are especially beatable on Sundays.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I think it'll start from behind center, then from the inside out.

:D


WORD.

[dirk digler]

Then you and I are looking at two completely different NFL rosters.

Either way, the Chiefs will not win more than 5 games in 2009.

Regardless of who they actually beat to get there.

I think it is way to early to make any kind of predictions on wins and losses. The NFL changes so much and because it is a parity driven league the bad teams get better and the top teams fall in any given year.

We could get alot of FA's in the next month that could dramatically change what our roster looks like.

[blueballs]

The Cards pick up Modkins
as their RB coach
Hermisfication

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Well, this is shaping up to be another "We really shook the Pillars of Heaven, didn't we Wang"?-scenario.

Oh Claythan? Get the pics ready please...:doh!::spock:

[DaneMcCloud]

I think it is way to early to make any kind of predictions on wins and losses. The NFL changes so much and because it is a parity driven league the bad teams get better and the top teams fall in any given year.

We could get alot of FA's in the next month that could dramatically change what our roster looks like.

I disagree.

In the draft forum, I've stated which free agents would most likely help the Chiefs. There's really only one that even feasible and that's Jason Brown.

Free agency isn't the panacea that everyone here makes it out to be.

Furthermore, even if this team successfully addresses their needs at QB, center, right guard, right tackle and RB, they'll still lack a MLB, OLB, and RDE. If they go 3-4, the whole thing's blown up and I'd expect to be in the bottom 5 of all defenses again. And that's not even mentioning the lack of depth across the entire roster.

This team isn't the Atlanta Falcon, who were missing a few important pieces to make a run. This team isn't the Miami Dolphins, who benifitted from prior free agency acquisitions (Joey Porter), a veteran QB (Pennington) and Bill Parcells watching over the franchise. And furthermore, the Dolphins beat only TWO teams with winning records last year.

The Chiefs schedule offers them no such luxury.

Nor does their roster.

[Micjones]

The Chiefs and Lions are especially beatable on Sundays.

So are the Bengals and Rams.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I disagree.

In the draft forum, I've stated which free agents would most likely help the Chiefs. There's really only one that even feasible and that's Jason Brown.

Free agency isn't the panacea that everyone here makes it out to be.

Furthermore, even if this team successfully addresses their needs at QB, center, right guard, right tackle and RB, they'll still lack a MLB, OLB, and RDE. If they go 3-4, the whole thing's blown up and I'd expect to be in the bottom 5 of all defenses again. And that's not even mentioning the lack of depth across the entire roster.

This team isn't the Atlanta Falcon, who were missing a few important pieces to make a run. This team isn't the Miami Dolphins, who benifitted from prior free agency acquisitions (Joey Porter), a veteran QB (Pennington) and Bill Parcells watching over the franchise. And furthermore, the Dolphins beat only TWO teams with winning records last year.

The Chiefs schedule offers them no such luxury.

Nor does their roster.

Your optimism is inspiring. Not convincing, but inspiring.

[Micjones]

I think there are several Free Agents available that the Chiefs could take a look at...

(WR): Devery Henderson, Nate Washington
(RT): Vernon Carey, Ray Willis
(C): Jason Brown, Geoff Hangartner
(DE): Chris Canty, Igor Olshansky
(OLB): Michael Boley
(ILB): Bart Scott, Jonathan Vilma

[dirk digler]

I disagree.

In the draft forum, I've stated which free agents would most likely help the Chiefs. There's really only one that even feasible and that's Jason Brown.

Free agency isn't the panacea that everyone here makes it out to be.

Furthermore, even if this team successfully addresses their needs at QB, center, right guard, right tackle and RB, they'll still lack a MLB, OLB, and RDE. If they go 3-4, the whole thing's blown up and I'd expect to be in the bottom 5 of all defenses again. And that's not even mentioning the lack of depth across the entire roster.

This team isn't the Atlanta Falcon, who were missing a few important pieces to make a run. This team isn't the Miami Dolphins, who benifitted from prior free agency acquisitions (Joey Porter), a veteran QB (Pennington) and Bill Parcells watching over the franchise. And furthermore, the Dolphins beat only TWO teams with winning records last year.

The Chiefs schedule offers them no such luxury.

Nor does their roster.

I am not suggesting that FA is some kind of panacea but if you think this roster is going to stay remotely the same then you are ignoring Pioli's history. IIRC at his PC he said in their first year in NE they signed 20-21 FA's. Clark also stated he believes they will be fairly active because they have alot of holes that can be upgraded.

You also can't tell me that there isn't 2nd-3rd tier FA's that are worse than Babin or Rocky Boiman both were starters last year.

This roster IMO is going to get a huge makeover starting very soon so that is why I am saying it is going to be hard to make any kind of predictions in February prior to FA and the draft.

Let's wait and see come August.

[royr17]

I was talkin to Eric Warfield today and he feels that LJ is gone.

[kcchiefsus]

There's no way the Chiefs win 7 games in 2009. The most they'll win is 5 at best.

They play everyone in the AFC West twice, along with teams from the NFC East and AFC North. They'd have to split with each of their divisional opponents and steal a game from the Browns, Jaguars or Bengals to reach even 5 wins.

There's no WAY they're going to beat the Redskins, Eagles, Cowboys, Ravens, Steelers, Giants or Bills.

5 games. Tops.

Yeah, just like there is no way we should have beaten San Diego twice last year. There are plenty of times the better team does NOT win. To say there is no way we beat any team is just stupid. This is the NFL, upsets happen all the time.

[the Talking Can]

i can live with Gailey...but not if it means we're making Thigpen "the guy"....


going to be nervous until the draft....

[keg in kc]

i can live with Gailey...but not if it means we're making Thigpen "the guy"....I don't know why keeping Gailey means we're making Thigpen anything. I'd imagine he knows better than anybody else that he had to install a high school offense to get the guy on the field.

[the Talking Can]

I don't know why keeping Gailey means we're making Thigpen anything. I'd imagine he knows better than anybody else that he had to install a high school offense to get the guy on the field.

true...i guess i'm still conditioned to expect the worst.....post-traumatic-Carl-syndrome (PTCS).....

[DaneMcCloud]

Yeah, just like there is no way we should have beaten San Diego twice last year. There are plenty of times the better team does NOT win. To say there is no way we beat any team is just stupid. This is the NFL, upsets happen all the time.

Whatever.

I'm sure you'll tell us how the Chiefs will beat the Giants this year.

ROFL

[SAUTO]

There's no way the Chiefs win 7 games in 2009. The most they'll win is 5 at best.

They play everyone in the AFC West twice, along with teams from the NFC East and AFC North. They'd have to split with each of their divisional opponents and steal a game from the Browns, Jaguars or Bengals to reach even 5 wins.

There's no WAY they're going to beat the Redskins, Eagles, Cowboys, Ravens, Steelers, Giants or Bills.

5 games. Tops.

funny thing to say right now. how do you know?

[Mecca]

The Thigpen decision rests on Haley and I have a really hard time seeing a offensive coach being flexible, Herm didn't have an offense he was a defensive guy..

I could just imagine Haley flipping his lid when Thigpen can't do what he wants him to do at all.

[SAUTO]

I don't know why keeping Gailey means we're making Thigpen anything. I'd imagine he knows better than anybody else that he had to install a high school offense to get the guy on the field.

so now its a high school offense? did it get put back a couple of grades?

[Micjones]

Whatever.

I'm sure you'll tell us how the Chiefs will beat the Giants this year.

ROFL

Funny that list you had earlier shrunk to one team.
Just stop with this. Teams lose games they shouldn't...to lesser teams.
That's the beauty of the NFL.

[Mecca]

so now its a high school offense? did it get put back a couple of grades?

In fairness it is a high school offense, a ton of high schools use it.

[SAUTO]

In fairness it is a high school offense, a ton of high schools use it.

a ton of colleges use it, every nfl team uses it sometimes, but yeah lets call it a hs offense:rolleyes:

[DaneMcCloud]

funny thing to say right now. how do you know?

It's not funny.

If you don't believe it, that's fine.

I'm on record and I'll eat crow if necessary.

[DaneMcCloud]

Funny that list you had earlier shrunk to one team.
Just stop with this. Teams lose games they shouldn't...to lesser teams.
That's the beauty of the NFL.

I'm not gonna stop anything.

I'm on record.

Deal with it.

[Mecca]

a ton of colleges use it, every nfl team uses it sometimes, but yeah lets call it a hs offense:rolleyes:

Oh jesus..

Jason the guy who thinks because a team runs a shotgun at times they are spread!

[ChiefRon]

There are plenty of pessimistic fans on this board, but I still think we're going to improve substantially.

Even if we didn't sign anyone, I bet we improve a game or three just from coaching.

But I expect the roster overhaul to begin in earnest this offseason.

The schedule is brutal. I stated the other day we would win more than 5 games next year before I was reminded of the schedule.

So I'll temper my enthusiasm somewhat, but in our division, you never know.

We will be more competitive next year, that much I am sure of.

[SAUTO]

Oh jesus..

Jason the guy who thinks because a team runs a shotgun at times they are spread!

tell me one team that has never used a version of the spread

[Micjones]

I'm not gonna stop anything.

I'm on record.

Deal with it.

I'm hardly going to lose sleep over you making a fool of yourself.
Again, good teams lose to bad teams weekly in the NFL.

To say there is "no way" the Chiefs could beat a Washington team that last year dropped games to both St. Louis and Cincinnati is retarded.

I mean really...

And oh yeah... The Giants team that you just mentioned...
The year they WON the Superbowl? They got SPANKED by a Minnesota team that finished 8-8 in a suck ass division. Lost by 24 points...in their own stadium.

ANY...
GIVEN...
SUNDAY...

Deal with that.

[FAX]

... I could just imagine Haley flipping his lid when Thigpen can't do what he wants him to do at all.

I can see that happening, too.

Frankly, I expect that there will be a world of difference between Herm's approach to player relations and Haley's. I can almost hear the wailing now.

"But Herm told us we was good!!!"

FAX

[Mecca]

tell me one team that has never used a version of the spread

My IQ is being hurt by this conversation..

Anyone who watched this past season and has any desire to continue with that either has no brain or loves watching shit.

[SAUTO]

My IQ is being hurt by this conversation..

Anyone who watched this past season and has any desire to continue with that either has no brain or loves watching shit.

what do you mean. did i say anything about us and the spread? no. just funny how it keeps going down. you still didnt answer my question. deflection.

[Mecca]

I can see that happening, too.

Frankly, I expect that there will be a world of difference between Herm's approach to player relations and Haley's. I can almost hear the wailing now.

"But Herm told us we was good!!!"

FAX

Ok that gave me a hilarious visual...."Herm said I didn't have to take under center snaps"

"Herms not here now is he boy!"

[missinDThomas]

I think there are several Free Agents available that the Chiefs could take a look at...

(WR): Devery Henderson, Nate Washington
(RT): Vernon Carey, Ray Willis
(C): Jason Brown, Geoff Hangartner
(DE): Chris Canty, Igor Olshansky
(OLB): Michael Boley
(ILB): Bart Scott, Jonathan Vilma

My thoughts exactly....I would take Lance Moore over Devery though

and for all of you that have such a negative attitude about the new coaches, think about this. Haley said himself that he is new to this HC and he is not an ego guy. SO.....he is getting as much NFL coaching experience as he can to be on his staff.

The one thing about being a coach with a former bad record, is you learn what NOT to do. With all of these guys brainstorming and putting their heads together and Pioli throwing in the things he learned with Bill, this could just be that best staff formed in years. You negative types, why don't you just wait until the end of 2010 before you curse these guys. They need a chance to evaluate what is trash on our team and what is not and start forming our new team. Pioli already said he is going to be active in this free agent market. Depending who we get, could really help a guy lke Sanchez out if we get him. Whe have a lot of offense minded guys coming on this team that could be bad ass.

[Micjones]

My thoughts exactly....I would take Lance Moore over Devery though

and for all of you that have such a negative attitude about the new coaches, think about this. Haley said himself that he is new to this HC and he is not an ego guy. SO.....he is getting as much NFL coaching experience as he can to be on his staff.

The one thing about being a coach with a former bad record, is you learn what NOT to do. With all of these guys brainstorming and putting their heads together and Pioli throwing in the things he learned with Bill, this could just be that best staff formed in years. You negative types, why don't you just wait until the end of 2010 before you curse these guys. They need a chance to evaluate what is trash on our team and what is not and start forming our new team. Pioli already said he is going to be active in this free agent market. Depending who we get, could really help a guy lke Sanchez out if we get him. Whe have a lot of offense minded guys coming on this team that could be bad ass.

I'd prefer Lance Moore to Henderson myself, but he's an RFA, no?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I don't know why keeping Gailey means we're making Thigpen anything. I'd imagine he knows better than anybody else that he had to install a high school offense to get the guy on the field.

He and Thigpen have become hard-core Gin Rummy buddies in the off season; we're fucked!

true...i guess i'm still conditioned to expect the worst.....post-traumatic-Carl-syndrome (PTCS).....

Herm still lives in your heart; it's obvious.

The Thigpen decision rests on Haley and I have a really hard time seeing a offensive coach being flexible, Herm didn't have an offense he was a defensive guy..

I could just imagine Haley flipping his lid when Thigpen can't do what he wants him to do at all.

I just hope someone is sporting a cell-phone with video capability when it happens! Bwu-Hahahahaaaaaaa!:evil: Sigs and Avs for MONTHS! :D

[CrazyHorse]

My IQ is being hurt by this conversation..

Anyone who watched this past season and has any desire to continue with that either has no brain or loves watching shit.


I can relate.

Anybody that thinks because a person has been in a spread offense has lost the ability to learn anything else, (like footwork?) is numbing after 5000 times. But when you start to convince half the board of it, it's comical.

I personally would like to know how someone comes to the conclusion that a person that has made it to the pros playing football cant learn plays. Or better yet, a person who has made it to the pros as a QB cant learn to read a defense.

The myopic soda straw mentality around draft time has so many people who would mormally be someone reguarded as intelligent coming off looking clueless.

However whats most amazing is the misplaced arrogance. It's like watching a bunch of retards wearing thier pants backwards making fun of another person for not wearing a belt.

[SAUTO]

.

whats most amazing is the misplaced arrogance. It's like watching a bunch of retards wearing thier pants backwards making fun of another person for not wearing a belt.

ROFL but they are the smart ones

[CrazyHorse]

ROFL but they are the smart ones


All they have proven over the last couple weeks with the assault on this board is that they have learned little about football in the time they have watched it.

With every new thread it becomes more obvious.

[SAUTO]

All they have proven over the last couple weeks with the assault on this board is that they have learned little about football in the time they have watched it.

With every new thread it becomes more obvious.

none of them understand that players can grow. especially young players with little experience

[SAUTO]

wait that is wrong. they dont understand that a player they dont like can grow

['Hamas' Jenkins]

a ton of colleges use it, every nfl team uses it sometimes, but yeah lets call it a hs offense:rolleyes:

One D-I school uses the pistol--

Nevada.

[SAUTO]

One D-I school uses the pistol--

Nevada.

no,no we're talking about the spread. the pistol is a variation no? AND did we use the pistol without lj?

[DaneMcCloud]

I'm hardly going to lose sleep over you making a fool of yourself.


Hey Mic, you make a fool of yourself daily. So why do I care what you think of me and my prediction of the Chiefs winning only 5 games next year?

Oh, that's right. I don't.

[DaneMcCloud]

I think there are several Free Agents available that the Chiefs could take a look at...

(WR): Devery Henderson, Nate Washington
(RT): Vernon Carey, Ray Willis
(C): Jason Brown, Geoff Hangartner
(DE): Chris Canty, Igor Olshansky
(OLB): Michael Boley
(ILB): Bart Scott, Jonathan Vilma

I mentioned Boley nearly 2 months ago and again last week.

You laughed at the idea.

Why the change, Mic?

[CrazyHorse]

The offense we used last season was in part due to Thigpens experience. But was also a direct reflection of the poor play of the O line. Ask Croyle and Huard how easy it was to line up behind center.

There is no reason to think those things wont improve this season. None what so ever.

[DaneMcCloud]

The offense we used last season was in part due to Thigpens experience. But was also a direct reflection of the poor play of the O line. Ask Croyle and Huard how easy it was to line up behind center.

There is no reason to think those things wont imrove this season. None what so ever.

IF the Chiefs acquire adequate talent.

I hope you're not seriously suggesting that Sackintosh, Jones and Niwanger will improve.

Are you?

[SAUTO]

IF the Chiefs acquire adequate talent.

I hope you're not seriously suggesting that Sackintosh, Jones and Niwanger will improve.

Are you?

sign brown move niswanger to rg maybe richardson or taylor can work at rt.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

no,no we're talking about the spread. the pistol is a variation no? AND did we use the pistol without lj?

We didn't employ the pistol until LJ came back, but his presence in the game upon his return was not the only time we ran the pistol.

[SAUTO]

We didn't employ the pistol until LJ came back, but his presence in the game upon his return was not the only time we ran the pistol.

i think you are wrong there. cant be sure but i dont remember anyone else lining up in the pistol

[Mecca]

And there's that argument again about the spread helping the Oline, some people will never understand.

[DaneMcCloud]

sign brown move niswanger to rg maybe richardson or taylor can work at rt.

Brown would be a nice signing but I doubt he goes anywhere.

As has been discussed AD NAUSEUM, Taylor lacks the size and ability to be a successful right tackle in the NFL. Richardson is a long-term project that may never see the field.

Niswanger should be a backup guard, at best.

[CrazyHorse]

IF the Chiefs acquire adequate talent.

I hope you're not seriously suggesting that Sackintosh, Jones and Niwanger will improve.

Are you?


I'll be the 1st to say that I'm not in love with the O line we have here. But regaurdless how poor they are individually, they do stand a chance of improvement just by being together longer. I would like some new talent there. But even if we dont put anyone new on the O line, they shoud be a little better than they were at the start of last season.

Macintosh blows.

I'm hoping for some new additions on the line. No doubt.

[CrazyHorse]

And there's that argument again about the spread helping the Oline, some people will never understand.

I understand your point. You are squaking about how it hurts a good line. We didn't have a good line. We had a line that could not block for a 5 step drop. By the 5th step, the QB was getting flushed or sacked. Look at the tape. In the case of our line, it allowed the QB to get the ball with a 5 step drop. It's the only way we could get a play off. Again look at the tape.

I have. I have watched every game more than once. I'm not limited by my agenda when looking at the tape. You should try it.

[Mecca]

Ok then in that case shouldn't Thigpen have a significantly better completion percentage since he's throwing quick read short stuff?

[Craqhead]

I will wait till sept.
Posted via Mobile Device

I agree... just after the preseason games are over. We should have an idea if these guys are heading in the right direction.

[CrazyHorse]

Ok then in that case shouldn't Thigpen have a significantly better completion percentage since he's throwing quick read short stuff?

Given that he was the 3rd QB it gave him little experience in practice until he started. I would expect that with more practice and more time at starter he should improve his %. I would be more concerned with the offensive production drop in the second half of games. I think his biggest problem was his inability to overcome his coaching. His completion % was higher in the 1st half of many games but dropped considerably in the second half of games.

[Mecca]

Wait so it's the coaches fault that he's horribly inaccurate?

[CrazyHorse]

Wait so it's the coaches fault that he's horribly inaccurate?

Not at all. But the coaching is the coaches fault. I've never claimed he is incredibly accurate. I challenge you to point that post out to me.

Why was his play so much better in the 1st half of games but not in the second? Let me guess, the defense made adjustments, right?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Wait so it's the coaches fault that he's horribly inaccurate?

Mecca, don't you understand? He just needs TIME! If we put in a call to Mr. Peabody and Sherman, I'm sure they'd be THRILLED to take Thigpen for weekly trips in the "Wayback Machine"!

And in 8 to 10 years of suspended "Thiggy-Time" why, we'll have ourselves a genuine, beat to hell Elvis Grbac to call OUR VERY OWN!!!

PBJ:toast: WOO-WOO!!! :doh!::spock:

[CrazyHorse]

Mecca, don't you understand? He just needs TIME! If we put in a call to Mr. Peabody and Sherman, I'm sure they'd be THRILLED to take Thigpen for weekly trips in the "Wayback Machine"!

And in 8 to 10 years of suspended "Thigpen-Time" why, we'll have ourselves a genuine, beat to hell Elvis Grbac to call OUR VERY OWN!!!

PBJ:toast: WOO-WOO!!! :doh!::spock:

This is how you act when you have lost the arguement.


I'm guessing you have a QB in mind that needs no time to improve?

[Mecca]

Not at all. But the coaching is the coaches fault. I've never claimed he is incredibly accurate. I challenge you to point that post out to me.

Why was his play so much better in the 1st half of games but not in the second? Let me guess, the defense made adjustments, right?

Because being wildly inaccurate makes him wildly inconsistent?

Why did the win one for Herm Bengals game result in Thigpen playing like that for the whole game?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

This is how you act when you have lost the arguement.


I'm guessing you have a QB in mind that needs no time to improve?

1) I wasn't aware I was having an argument.

2) I've got one in mind, yes. :eek:

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Or at least one with a MUCH shorter learning curve, anyway.

[CrazyHorse]

Because being wildly inaccurate makes him wildly inconsistent?

Why did the win one for Herm Bengals game result in Thigpen playing like that for the whole game?

He's a rook in all respects. On that started the middle of the season without the benefit of working with the 1st team. Listen, I'm not sayibg he's great, or even will be great. I'm saying that 11 games in the NFL, he could have done a hell of a lot worse. He played better than some of the other rooks who had better teams around them.

If we draft your boy, all he's gonna do is shit his pants all season throwing rocket balls. It's part of being a rook QB in the NFL. If you wouldn't throw him out after 11 games then there is no arguement to throw Thigpen out after 11 games. Who know what wiull happen with TT? Not you. Any more than you know what will happen with MS.

It takes more than a few games after throwing a QB into someone elses offense to get yourself together. I'm willing to give the guy a shot. It's reasonable to give the guy a shot. Putting him into this particular offense he definately wasn't put in a position to succeed. Can we not agree on that?

[CrazyHorse]

1) I wasn't aware I was having an argument.

2) I've got one in mind, yes. :eek:

Who's that?

[Mecca]

Well atleast "my boy" can take proper snaps.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Who's that?

"ROCKET BALLS"!

[CrazyHorse]

Well atleast "my boy" can take proper snaps.

Another "unlearnable" trait, right?

I guess we will just disagree on the subject. You think it's unreasonable to give a rook more than 11 games to become a good NFL QB. I dont think so. You think the ability to "take a proper snap" is the final straw on spending the 3rd overall pick in the draft.

You have your opinion, I have mine. I'm willing to admit I could be wrong. So I will conceed the arguement until further proof is evident.

[Mecca]

Another "unlearnable" trait, right?

I guess we will just disagree on the subject. You think it's unreasonable to give a rook more than 11 games to become a good NFL QB. I dont think so. You think the ability to "take a proper snap" is the final straw on spending the 3rd overall pick in the draft.

You have your opinion, I have mine. I'm willing to admit I could be wrong. So I will conceed the arguement until further proof is evident.

Fair question, do you realize the bust rate of a QB going from the spread to pro style?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Another "unlearnable" trait, right?

I guess we will just disagree on the subject. You think it's unreasonable to give a rook more than 11 games to become a good NFL QB. I dont think so. You think the ability to "take a proper snap" is the final straw on spending the 3rd overall pick in the draft.

You have your opinion, I have mine. I'm willing to admit I could be wrong. So I will conceed the arguement until further proof is evident.

Thank God we've reached a consensus; I really need to go take a Thigpen...

[CrazyHorse]

"ROCKET BALLS"!


Yeah. I think that answer has destroyed any credibility you might have had. If you had any.

I doubt you will get anyone to argue your side that Sanchez will need no time to improve his skills in the NFL.

[Chiefnj2]

Fair question, do you realize the bust rate of a QB going from the spread to pro style?

Not as great as the bust rate of QB's with one year of collegiate starting experience?

[CrazyHorse]

Fair question, do you realize the bust rate of a QB going from the spread to pro style?

No worse than a QB leaving school early with little to no college experience, I'm sure.

You've told me in the past that statistics mean nothing. So why use them here?

[keg in kc]

I'll ask the question I asked in the other thread...

Which is the greater risk:

Going with Sanchez in the hope that he develops into a franchise QB
Going with Thigpen in the hope that he develops into a franchise QB

Based purely on one guy versus the other, throw out the fact that one's a 7th rounder and one will be a 1st. Look at them objectively, consider their physical attributes, their strengths and weaknesses, and tell me which one has the greater chance at developing into a franchise quarterback and why.

[Mecca]

LOL dude it is every bit as bad, who's a successful QB from the spread?

[Mecca]

I'll ask the question I asked in the other thread...

Which is the greater risk:

Going with Sanchez in the hope that he develops into a franchise QB
Going with Thigpen in the hope that he develops into a franchise QB

Based purely on one guy versus the other, throw out the fact that one's a 7th rounder and one will be a 1st. Look at them objectively, consider their physical attributes, their strengths and weaknesses, and tell me which one has the greater chance at developing into a franchise quarterback and why.

Well that is a very good point, I can't wait to see the responses to that.

[CrazyHorse]

I'll ask the question I asked in the other thread...

Which is the greater risk:

Going with Sanchez in the hope that he develops into a franchise QB
Going with Thigpen in the hope that he develops into a franchise QB

Based purely on one guy versus the other, throw out the fact that one's a 7th rounder and one will be a 1st. Look at them objectively, consider their physical attributes, their strengths and weaknesses, and tell me which one has the greater chance at developing into a franchise quarterback and why.

Based on the point that one has never taken a snap in the NFL? There's not enough info to make that type of assessment. That's the whole point.

You're talking about a green QB who not only has little experience in college but has never taken a snap at the pro level. I dont know if either guy can develop into a franchise QB.

How many people had Lineart (sp) as a franchise QB? It's a loaded question.

A better question would be can Thigpen improve enough to justify spending the pick on anothe position of need in this draft. Some say yes. Some say no. But the question is more relevant.

[blueballs]

How the living fuck
or dead fuck for that matter
did this turn into the same QB debate

[keg in kc]

Based on the point that one has never taken a snap in the NFL? There's not enough info to make that type of assessment. That's the whole point.

You're talking about a green QB who not only has little experience in college but has never taken a snap at the pro level. I dont know if either guy can develop into a franchise QB.

How many people had Lineart (sp) as a franchise QB? It's a loaded question.

A better question would be can Thigpen improve enough to justify spending the pick on anothe position of need in this draft. Some say yes. Some say no. But the question is more relevant.Well, I can certainly appreciate the tack of dodging a question you don't want to answer.

[Mecca]

I love that people still can't properly spell Leinart.

[keg in kc]

How the living ****
or dead **** for that matter
did this turn into the same QB debateBecause we're all very, very bored and there's not much else to talk about, would be my guess.

[CrazyHorse]

Well, I can certainly appreciate the tack of dodging a question you don't want to answer.


I answered the question.

I don't know.

Do you know? Or are you just hoping that you know, like a pro NFL scout hopes?

[CrazyHorse]

I love that people still can't properly spell Leinart.

That's a goofy thing to love. I'll try not to judge.

[dirk digler]

I'll ask the question I asked in the other thread...

Which is the greater risk:

Going with Sanchez in the hope that he develops into a franchise QB
Going with Thigpen in the hope that he develops into a franchise QB

Based purely on one guy versus the other, throw out the fact that one's a 7th rounder and one will be a 1st. Look at them objectively, consider their physical attributes, their strengths and weaknesses, and tell me which one has the greater chance at developing into a franchise quarterback and why.

I will answer though I think it is a semi-loaded question.

I would take Sanchez which goes back to why I said it was a semi-loaded question. We have already seen Thigpen play 10 games or so in the NFL and kind of already know quite a bit about him. On the other hand we know very little about Sanchez other than he was QB for 16 games or so and played against some of the worst defenses in college football much like Sam Bradford did.

[Mecca]

Well that's a real nice position to take "I dunno!"

Well why are you arguing then?

[CrazyHorse]

Well that's a real nice position to take "I dunno!"

Well why are you arguing then?

Go back and read my posts. You'll get it sooner or later. Maybe

There is no way of knowing for sure whether either one of those players will develop into a franchise QB.

It's becoming evident that you're running low on reasonable ammunition to support your arguement. So, I'll catch ya tomorrow. Maybe you can reload by then. I doubt you've been listening though.

Have a good night all.

[keg in kc]

Nobody 'knows'. Saying Sanchez has a better chance doesn't mean he'll succeed or that Thipen won't. It just means that he has a better chance.

[-King-]

Well that's a real nice position to take "I dunno!"

Well why are you arguing then?

How have you cope with the smell of that dirty sanchez under your nose?

[Mecca]

Nobody 'knows'. Saying Sanchez has a better chance doesn't mean he'll succeed or that Thipen won't. It just means that he has a better chance.

People don't know what the phrase realistic odds means.

[CrazyHorse]

Nobody 'knows'. Saying Sanchez has a better chance doesn't mean he'll succeed or that Thipen won't. It just means that he has a better chance.

Based on history of QBs coming out early with no experience, I would GUESS he has little to no chance what so ever.

But that is just a guess. I REALLY DONT KNOW.

[dirk digler]

Nobody 'knows'. Saying Sanchez has a better chance doesn't mean he'll succeed or that Thipen won't. It just means that he has a better chance.

I agree and you are basically making an educated guess based on certain factors.

[Mecca]

Based on history of QBs coming out early with no experience, I would GUESS he has little to no chance what so ever.

But that is just a guess. I REALLY DONT KNOW.

What about the history of spread QB's?

[-King-]

I refuse to crown Sanchez a good #3 pick after starting one year in college as much as you guys refuse to crown Thig a good qb. It's not like this guy even played in the SEC or some other power conference, he played in the pac-10. Did that conference even have another ranked team other than USC? You guys act like he played all pro defenses. He didn't. And to add to that, he only played those non all pro teams 1 year.

[CrazyHorse]

What about the history of spread QB's?

Means they have about the same chance. Not good, huh?

However, we have seen TT move the ball at the pro level, and we haven't from MS. that means that TT has a better chance based off history.

[Mecca]

The Pac 10 didn't lose a bowl game even defeating a prized Big 12 team.

[-King-]

The Pac 10 didn't lose a bowl game even defeating a prized Big 12 team.

THE BEAT A TEAM IN THE BIG 12?!?!? HOLY SHIT! THEY MUST BE GOOD!!!

[Mecca]

Means they have about the same chance. Not good, huh?

Ok if you want to say those are equal and cancel each other....

Sanchez is from a pro style offense, has top physical talent, was a team leader has top intangibles...

He beats Thigpen in every other category.

[Mecca]

THE BEAT A TEAM IN THE BIG 12?!?!? HOLY SHIT! THEY MUST BE GOOD!!!

The idea that the Pac 10 sucks is overblown...the conference is solid...it's not like it's the fuckin ACC or Big East.

[keg in kc]

Based on history of QBs coming out early with no experience, I would GUESS he has little to no chance what so ever.

But that is just a guess. I REALLY DONT KNOW.Well, if you want to go that route, we can discuss the history of division 2 quarterbacks drafted in the seventh round, or the history of 6'1 quarterbacks in the modern NFL.

And, again, nobody knows. That's not the point of this discussion or any other discussion about a player's future performance. Why even talk about it at all if that's your only answer?

[dirk digler]

The Pac 10 didn't lose a bowl game even defeating a prized Big 12 team.

Defensively the Pac-10 is almost just as bad as the Big 12 is.

Outside of USC which was ranked #1, California was the next highest at 27.

The Big 10, SEC, and the ACC all had better teams on the defense side of the ball.

[Mecca]

All I would ask is before people make snap judgments is that they'd go read about and watch the players.

[ChiefsCountry]

Last time USC played a SEC school they throttled them.

[DaneMcCloud]

Defensively the Pac-10 is almost just as bad as the Big 12 is.

Outside of USC which was ranked #1, California was the next highest at 27.

The Big 10, SEC, and the ACC all had better teams on the defense side of the ball.

And USC whooped the Big 10 teams it faced in 2008.

[FAX]

All I would ask is before people make snap judgments is that they'd go read about and watch the players.

That doesn't seem like too much to ask, Mr. Mecca.

But, no.

FAX

[Mecca]

What about Penn States highly rated vaunted defense...they sure kept Sanchez in check.

[CrazyHorse]

Ok if you want to say those are equal and cancel each other....

Sanchez is from a pro style offense, has top physical talent, was a team leader has top intangibles...

He beats Thigpen in every other category.

Yet is a very risky pick at #3.

Im on record saying I will be satisfied if we pick Sanchez or Currey. I just want a good football player. I persoanlly think Sanchez is a big risk and that TT, with improvement would justify picking Currey. I also contend there is no guarantee and am nervous with a green QB taking up all that salary given the track record of QBs with no experience.

There is absoluteley nothing unreasonable about that opinion.

[Mecca]

And USC whooped the Big 10 teams it faced in 2008.

Ohio States defense is full of NFL players....what happened there?

[dirk digler]

Last time USC played a SEC school they throttled them.

I am not saying USC sucks they are an elite program but the rest of the competition in the Pac-10 are pretty far behind them.

Kind of like OK and TX in the Big 12.

[keg in kc]

Defensively the Pac-10 is almost just as bad as the Big 12 is.

Outside of USC which was ranked #1, California was the next highest at 27.

The Big 10, SEC, and the ACC all had better teams on the defense side of the ball.I thought he, ah, did okay against Penn State in the Rose Bowl.

[Mecca]

I am not saying USC sucks they are an elite program but the rest of the competition in the Pac-10 are pretty far behind them.

Kind of like OK and TX in the Big 12.

How about Penn State and Ohio State....

[DaneMcCloud]

Yet is a very risky pick at #3.

Im on record saying I will be satisfied if we pick Sanchez or Currey. I just want a good football player. I persoanlly think Sanchez is a big risk and that TT, with improvement would justify picking Currey. I also contend there is no guarantee and am nervous with a green QB taking up all that salary given the track record of QBs with no experience.

There is absoluteley nothing unreasonable about that opinion.

So, a "green" QB who led USC to one loss season, the same QB that was the #1 overall high school recruit, the guy who threw for 34 TD's and 10 INT's and had an 80% completion percentage is riskier than the 7th round draft choice from a D-1AA school that played in the spread and only had one victory last season?

Huh?

[-King-]

Last time USC played a SEC school they throttled them.

What SEC school was that?:spock:

[dirk digler]

How about Penn State and Ohio State....

meh. Big 10 sucks

[Mecca]

meh. Big 10 sucks

Ah so now they're NFL players and high defensive rankings don't matter because you deem that they suck.

[dirk digler]

I thought he, ah, did okay against Penn State in the Rose Bowl.

Oh I agree and he really impressed in that game but I knew and predicted that USC would pretty much destroy them.

[CrazyHorse]

Well, if you want to go that route, we can discuss the history of division 2 quarterbacks drafted in the seventh round, or the history of 6'1 quarterbacks in the modern NFL.

And, again, nobody knows. That's not the point of this discussion or any other discussion about a player's future performance. Why even talk about it at all if that's your only answer?

You wanted an answer to a loaded question. The only answer is I dont know. Why get pissy when you get the answer. I know you wanted me to pop off with some "know it all " answer. But the real answer I dont know.

I have given my opinion on the subject in more than one thread. Nothing I have said is unreasonable. You're asking me to evaluate talent that niether you are I have enough information, or enough experience to evaluate. I have evaluated based off of my 30+ years experience watching football and being an avid fan. One thing I have learned is, I dont know shit when it come to watching something on TV and real talent evaluation as a scout or coach.

Most here have not learned that yet. If you knew anything, you'd say you dont know shit either. But, you havent even learned that yet.

[Mecca]

Actually I'm pretty good at projecting players as most people here will attest.

[CrazyHorse]

So, a "green" QB who led USC to one loss season, the same QB that was the #1 overall high school recruit, the guy who threw for 34 TD's and 10 INT's and had an 80% completion percentage is riskier than the 7th round draft choice from a D-1AA school that played in the spread and only had one victory last season?

Huh?

We're not talking about giving up the #3 pick in the draft for Thigpen.

[CrazyHorse]

Actually I'm pretty good at projecting players as most people here will attest.

Then you would know Stafford is better.

[ChiefsCountry]

So, a "green" QB who led USC to one loss season, the same QB that was the #1 overall high school recruit, the guy who threw for 34 TD's and 10 INT's and had an 80% completion percentage is riskier than the 7th round draft choice from a D-1AA school that played in the spread and only had one victory last season?

Huh?

Not to mention cut by a team that isnt in much better shape than the Chiefs at Quarterback.

[Mecca]

Then you would know Stafford is better.

Actually I think they're pretty close a 1A and a 1B if you will.

[ChiefsCountry]

Then you would know Stafford is better.

They are basically equal prospects.

[dirk digler]

Ah so now they're NFL players and high defensive rankings don't matter because you deem that they suck.

No I was just making a general statement.

I don't think Big 10 teams can keep up offensively with most teams which is their biggest problem IMHO.

[Mecca]

I seem to remember having this argument a few years ago, when people wanted Hali because "he was safe and has been productive" and I wanted Cromartie and kept getting told how risky that was...

I wonder who we'd rather have now.

[DaneMcCloud]

We're not talking about giving up the #3 pick in the draft for Thigpen.

We're talking about the leader of the Chiefs franchise. The guy will lead them into the playoff and to a Super Bowl.

Would you wager your future on Thigpen or Sanchez?

I think that answer is simple.

[-King-]

They are basically equal prospects.

What SEC team was it that USC throttled?

[-King-]

I seem to remember having this argument a few years ago, when people wanted Hali because "he was safe and has been productive" and I wanted Cromartie and kept getting told how risky that was...

I wonder who we'd rather have now.

Neither. Cromartie proved he was a fluke. Jammer is 10x the cb Cromartie is. Cromo is constantly getting beat, cant jam worth a shit, cant run support worth a shit. Hell, Flowers is looking better than him right now.

[Mecca]

What SEC team was it that USC throttled?

Take your pick, Auburn, Arkansas...and that's Arkansas with McFadden, Jones etc.

[CrazyHorse]

Actually I think they're pretty close a 1A and a 1B if you will.

We'll see about that.

Thats enough for me folks. I'm out. have a good night.

[Mecca]

Neither. Cromartie proved he was a fluke. Jammer is 10x the cb Cromartie is. Cromo is constantly getting beat, cant jam worth a shit, cant run support worth a shit. Hell, Flowers is looking better than him right now.

You're a retard he played with a fractured hip.

To say he's worse than Jammer is laughable.

[ChiefsCountry]

What SEC team was it that USC throttled?

Arkansas

[-King-]

We're talking about the leader of the Chiefs franchise. The guy will lead them into the playoff and to a Super Bowl.

Would you wager your future on Thigpen or Sanchez?

I think that answer is simple.

So you have studied the 13 game tapes of sanchez's and determined that he for sure can take us to the SB? Did you take note of the defenses he played and the division he plays in?

[Mecca]

Arkansas

He thinks Cromartie sucks cause you know a guy should be awesome playing an entire season with a hip fracture..

He is smart eh?

[DaneMcCloud]

So you have studied the 13 game tapes of sanchez's and determined that he for sure can take us to the SB? Did you take note of the defenses he played and the division he plays in?

That wasn't the question, Champ.

The question was would you wager your future on Thigpen or Sanchez?

[-King-]

Arkansas

Damn, according to the schedule, they didnt play arkansas.

August 30 at Virginia W 52-7 1-0 (0-0)
September 13 No. 5 Ohio State W 35-3 2-0 (0-0)
September 25 at Oregon State L 27-21 2-1 (0-1)
October 4 No. 23 Oregon W 44-10 3-1 (1-1)
October 11 Arizona State W 28-0 4-1 (2-1)
October 18 at Washington State W 69-0 5-1 (3-1)
October 25 at Arizona W 17-10 6-1 (4-1)
November 1 Washington W 56-0 7-1 (5-1)
November 8 No. 21 California W 17-3 8-1 (6-1)
November 15 at Stanford W 45-23 9-1 (7-1)
November 29 Notre Dame W 38-3 10-1 (7-1)
December 6 at UCLA W 28-7 11-1 (8-1)
January 1 vs. No. 8 Penn State* W 38-24 12-1 (8-1)

And now you say "I didnt know we were just talking about 2008"

[Delano]

So you have studied the 13 game tapes of sanchez's and determined that he for sure can take us to the SB? Did you take note of the defenses he played and the division he plays in?

Did you note Sanchez is capable of running a pro style offense?

[DaneMcCloud]

He thinks Cromartie sucks cause you know a guy should be awesome playing an entire season with a hip fracture..

He is smart eh?

What's the deal with all the retard n00bs lately?

I hope they all go away after the Chiefs lose 11+ games next year.

[ChiefsCountry]

So you have studied the 13 game tapes of sanchez's and determined that he for sure can take us to the SB? Did you take note of the defenses he played and the division he plays in?

How many USC games have you watched?

[Mecca]

What's the deal with all the retard n00bs lately?

I hope they all go away after the Chiefs lose 11+ games next year.

It's getting bad real bad.

[-King-]

Did you note Sanchez is capable of running a pro style offense?

Yes, a lot of NFL qbs can do that, but I'm sure scouts had more than 13 game films to watch of them.

[DaneMcCloud]

Damn, according to the schedule, they didnt play arkansas.



And now you say "I didnt know we were just talking about 2008"

What the fuck are you talking about?

You asked what SEC team was throttled by USC the last time they played an SEC team.

You got the answer.

[DaneMcCloud]

How many USC games have you watched?

I think this guy is a troll.

Only Chiefzilla is this stupid.

[-King-]

How many USC games have you watched?

I watched about 4 or 5 last year.

[Mecca]

What the fuck are you talking about?

You asked what SEC team was throttled by USC the last time they played an SEC team.

You got the answer.


I don't even know what point he's trying to make anymore.

[-King-]

I don't even know what point he's trying to make anymore.

ROFL LMAO! This whole discussion is about Sanchez and his playing ability. We bring up he hasnt faced any good competition(SEC material) and some guy comes in talking about "They throttled the last SEC team they played". What IN THE HELL would that have to do with the discussion if he's not talking about last year? I could say Leinart won the NC, but does that pertain to this discussion right now? NO! So why the hell would he come in here talking about USC beating SEC teams in past years when we are talking about USC beating SEC teams during the Sanchez era?

[ChiefsCountry]

Sad thing is everybody thinks we think Sanchez is the flavor the month, we have mentioned him as a franchise type QB even before this season. Hell I remember talking about him during last year's draft.

[Mecca]

Go look at the rankings of Ohio State and Penn State, I'm sure they're high rankings and all their NFL players will somehow no matter though because it doesn't help your point.

[Mecca]

Sad thing is everybody thinks we think Sanchez is the flavor the month, we have mentioned him as a franchise type QB even before this season. Hell I remember talking about him during last year's draft.

In a thread from November after the Chiefs blew the Tampa game someone said who are the best QB's after Stafford and I immediately talked about Sanchez being a better prospect than Bradford..

Some people just like to say that shit because it sounds good.

[-King-]

What the **** are you talking about?

You asked what SEC team was throttled by USC the last time they played an SEC team.

You got the answer.

So wait, let me get this straight. We are talking about Sanchez. Sanchez started the year of 2008. We discuss that Sanchez hasn't played any quality opponents. Someone brings up the fact he hasn't faced any SEC type defenses. Chiefscountry comes in and says that infact USC has beaten an SEC team, but as you have pointed out, he wasn't talking about the 2008 USC team. So WHAT IN THE SAM HILL IS HE TALKING ABOUT? HOW DOES HIM TALKING ABOUT PAST USC VS. SEC TEAMS GAMES HELP SANCHEZ?

[dirk digler]

Go look at the rankings of Ohio State and Penn State, I'm sure they're high rankings and all their NFL players will somehow no matter though because it doesn't help your point.

In fairness Mecca you used the same criteria when talking about Bradford.

Both the Big 12 and Pac-10 Defenses leave much to be desired.

I think it is a legit point.

[Mecca]

In fairness Mecca you used the same criteria when talking about Bradford.

Both the Big 12 and Pac-10 Defenses leave much to be desired.

I think it is a legit point.

The best Big 12 defense finished 44th ponder that 44th!

Sanchez at the very least practiced everyday against the best defense in the nation..

[Mecca]

So wait, let me get this straight. We are talking about Sanchez. Sanchez started the year of 2008. We discuss that Sanchez hasn't played any quality opponents. Someone brings up the fact he hasn't faced any SEC type defenses. Chiefscountry comes in and says that infact USC has beaten an SEC team, but as you have pointed out, he wasn't talking about the 2008 USC team. So WHAT IN THE SAM HILL IS HE TALKING ABOUT? HOW DOES HIM TALKING ABOUT PAST USC VS. SEC TEAMS GAMES HELP SANCHEZ?

You're picking and choosing what you consider to be a quality opponent.

[Sam Hall]

I don't think any of you are responsible for this

[-King-]

Sad thing is everybody thinks we think Sanchez is the flavor the month, we have mentioned him as a franchise type QB even before this season. Hell I remember talking about him during last year's draft.

He must be YOUR flavor of the month if you dont even know the teams let alone the conferences he played.

[dirk digler]

The best Big 12 defense finished 44th ponder that 44th!

Sanchez at the very least practiced everyday against the best defense in the nation..

I will have to go back and look but Texas was in the mid 15-20 range.

[ChiefsCountry]

He must be YOUR flavor of the month if you dont even know the teams let alone the conferences he played.

Your a fucking dumbass.

[-King-]

You're picking and choosing what you consider to be a quality opponent.

Huh? Are you trying to tell me that the SEC doesn't have some of the best defenses in the NCAA? So Pac-10 opponents are of quality?

[Mecca]

I will have to go back and look but Texas was in the mid 15-20 range.

Um they were in the 40s...

[Delano]

He must be YOUR flavor of the month if you dont even know the teams let alone the conferences he played.

Let your n00bity-ness show why don't ya.

[-King-]

Your a ****ing dumbass.


Atleast I dont dick ride players I dont know about.

[Mecca]

Huh? Are you trying to tell me that the SEC doesn't have some of the best defenses in the NCAA? So Pac-10 opponents are of quality?

Oh for the love of christ, if you couldn't read it the first 4 times it's not getting through.

[-King-]

Let your n00bity-ness show why don't ya.

What? You mean to tell me that he DID know USC's opponents? If so, what would be the point of saying that they throttled an SEC team if it doesn't pertain to the argument?

[Delano]

This guy is the football version of Midnight_Vulture.

Spam your shit and watch everyone get pissed.

[ChiefsCountry]

Atleast I dont dick ride players I dont know about.

Your a fucking retard. I know all about Sanchez you fucking dumbass. I watched all of USC games this season. Unlike your dumbass who keeps spouting off worthless shit.

[Delano]

What? You mean to tell me that he DID know USC's opponents? If so, what would be the point of saying that they throttled an SEC team if it doesn't pertain to the argument?

I don't think you are following the argument.

Besides, if you knew anything about Chiefsplanet, you'd probably know Mecca is one of the biggest USC fans here. He knows who they played last year.

[-King-]

Oh for the love of christ, if you couldn't read it the first 4 times it's not getting through.

You know what? I'm with you. 13 games vs. mediocre competition is good enough to be my #3rd pick!! Gooooooooo!! Sanchez.

[Mecca]

This guy is the football version of Midnight_Vulture.

Spam your shit and watch everyone get pissed.

So you're saying he has a bike?

[Mecca]

You know what? I'm with you. 13 games vs. mediocre competition is good enough to be my #3rd pick!! Gooooooooo!! Sanchez.

Like I said Penn States ranking and NFL players don't matter because you are picking and choosing.

[-King-]

I don't think you are following the argument.

Besides, if you knew anything about Chiefsplanet, you'd probably know Mecca is one of the biggest USC fans here. He knows who they played last year.

Wow, someone else who doesn't know what he's talking about. I know Mecca is an USC fan. I respect him for that. But I'm talking about Chiefs country. Try to follow along here. He's the one who posted that USC throttled a SEC team.

[ChiefsCountry]

I don't think you are following the argument.

Besides, if you knew anything about Chiefsplanet, you'd probably know Mecca is one of the biggest USC fans here. He knows who they played last year.

He is talking about me, bc he keeps saying how great the fucking SEC is and I said last time USC played one they throttled them.

[Delano]

So you're saying he has a bike?

No, but that doesn't stop him from wearing a helmet everywhere he goes.

[Delano]

He is talking about me, bc he keeps saying how great the fucking SEC is and I said last time USC played one they throttled them.

Oh snap. Sorry.

I have the Travis Tritt/Mecca avatar burned into my retinas.

[-King-]

Like I said Penn States ranking and NFL players don't matter because you are picking and choosing.

No I'm not. He played some good teams. I wont lie, but the majority of his games were against scrub teams who are unranked. I know Sanchez is a good qb, but not now, he needs one more year in college to prove to me he can be consistent and #3 pick worthy. I have this pesky thing that tells me experience is good. Any qb can post great numbers ONE year, it takes a great qb to be consistent and do it year in and year out.

[Mecca]

No I'm not. He played some good teams. I wont lie, but the majority of his games were against scrub teams who are unranked. I know Sanchez is a good qb, but not now, he needs one more year in college to prove to me he can be consistent and #3 pick worthy. I have this pesky thing that tells me experience is good. Any qb can post great numbers ONE year, it takes a great qb to be consistent and do it year in and year out.

That sounds like a ringing endorsement for Tyler Thigpen since he couldn't even be consistent throughout single games.

[-King-]

That sounds like a ringing endorsement for Tyler Thigpen since he couldn't even be consistent throughout single games.

I am not endorsing Thigpen. I am giving him a chance. If he loses his starting spot, then I'm going to be happy because we found someone better. I'm not attached to Thigpen like you guys are of Sanchez. Now if you guys were talking about Stafford coming, I'd be all on board. He's a great qb who has shown he can play year in and year out.

[dirk digler]

Um they were in the 40s...

Yep you were right I stand corrected.

The site I was using said they were 19th

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/stats/byteam?cat1=defense&cat2=Total&conference=I-A_all

But USA Today and another one have them in the 40's.

My apologies.

Edit: I screwed up that is why. It sorts them by scoring D not total yds. Duh.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Yeah. I think that answer has destroyed any credibility you might have had. If you had any.

I doubt you will get anyone to argue your side that Sanchez will need no time to improve his skills in the NFL.

Yeah, I said "a lesser learning curve", you Ass Clown. 4321

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Oh for the love of christ, if you couldn't read it the first 4 times it's not getting through.

ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL


http://files.samhart.net/humor/dumbass.png

[aturnis]

No, but that doesn't stop him from wearing a helmet everywhere he goes.

Nice.

[aturnis]

Dirk...Is that really Mecca in your avatar?

[keg in kc]

Dirk...Is that really Mecca in your avatar?It is.

Here's an ever better shot of him: http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5502725&postcount=470

[aturnis]

It is.

Here's an ever better shot of him: http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5502725&postcount=470

And how did anyone come across these pictures?

[keg in kc]

And how did anyone come across these pictures?He posted them.

[Mecca]

And how did anyone come across these pictures?

Because I'm not shy.....I even made the picture Dirk is using, I have a sense of humor ya know.

[Mr. Arrowhead]

It just bugs the living shit out of me, that some people really would take Tyler Fucking Thigpen as the franchise qb over Matt Stafford or Mark Sanchez. Dam people are you really that fucking dumb

[Mecca]

It just bugs the living shit out of me, that some people really would take Tyler Fucking Thigpen as the franchise qb over Matt Stafford or Mark Sanchez. Dam people are you really that fucking dumb

Yes they are, they think Aaron Curry means more than a QB does.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Because I'm not shy.....I even made the picture Dirk is using, I have a sense of humor ya know.

HOLY SHIT BRO; I think I know you! PM coming your way.

[aturnis]

Yeah...just figured. Not too many people go posting pictures of their actual selves on the planet. They usually just try to pass themselves off as Heath Henry Clay.

[aturnis]

Yes they are, they think Aaron Curry means more than a QB does.

Just wondering... Extremely hypothetically here. If Stafford goes #1, and Sanchez #2, with no possibility of trading down, who do you take?