Is Joey Harrington a bust?

[CrazyHorse]

The question was raised in another thread. I was surprized to find a few people that said he was a successful 1st round pick. One person in particular, said no one in thier right mind would view him as a bust and that I was by myself in thinking that.

So here's the poll to find out.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I'd say we'd all probably have to agree that your mom was a bust for not swallowing you when she had the chance.

[RJ]

???????????

[SAUTO]

I'd say we'd all probably have to agree that your mom was a bust for not swallowing you when she had the chance.

now hamas thats not very fair he's just doing what dane challenged him to do

[Deberg_1990]

Depends on the definition of bust. He has been a starter for 6 out of his 7 seasons.

So i guess hes not a bust of epic proportions, but definately a HUGE disappointment for sure.

[CrazyHorse]

I'd say we'd all probably have to agree that your mom was a bust for not swallowing you when she had the chance.

She did.

There was no stopping me then, there's no stopping me now.

Just because you think Harrington was a successful QB doesn't mean you have to get offended. I left an option for you to vote.

[SAUTO]

Depends on the definition of bust. He has been a starter for 6 out of his 7 seasons.

So i guess hes not a bust of epic proportions, but definately a HUGE disappointment for sure.

would you be happy if we drafted him at #3 this year and his career played out the same way?

[eazyb81]

Why is this a question, let alone a thread?

[CrazyHorse]

Depends on the definition of bust. He has been a starter for 6 out of his 7 seasons.

So i guess hes not a bust of epic proportions, but definately a HUGE disappointment for sure.

Was he worth the money or he pick that's been invested in him? Of not, that is my definition of bust.

[SAUTO]

Why is this a question, let alone a thread?

dane asked him to start a poll. he says harrington and david carr have justified their draft position

[Deberg_1990]

Was he worth the money or he pick that's been invested in him? Of not, that is my definition of bust.

Well then no. But you probably already knew that.

[eazyb81]

dane asked him to start a poll. he says harrington and david carr have justified their draft position

Ouch. Embarrassing statement if true.

[CrazyHorse]

Why is this a question, let alone a thread?

Because I'm a total idiot for thinking he's a bust I'm told.

I'm told by several, like

Mecca
Dane McLoud
Hamas

Harrington is not a bust. He has 15,000 yards. It's all Detroits fault. He's got bigtime talent.

One poster compared him to Steve Young.

[RJ]

So the question should read - "Based on where he was selected in the draft, was Joey Harrington a bust?".

Is that it?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Ouch. Embarrassing statement if true.

It's not true.

[SAUTO]

Nine? You out of 13 are BUSTS? You're out of your fucking mind.

Please explain to me how Joey Harrington has more than 15,000 yards passing and is a member of the New Orleans Saints if he's a "bust"?

How is David Carr be a bust when he's the primary backup to Eli Manning in New York?

Are you suddenly more in touch with a QB's attributes than Sean Payton or Tom Coughlin?

I'm sure you think that Steve Young was a bust too, right? Because he didn't win at Tampa Bay? And Jim Plunkett - he was a bust too, right? Because he didn't win at New England?

You sir, are a football moron.

"Who's Leonard Davis?"

ROFL

Yeah, I figured that.

Just like so many other dumbfucks.

The truth of the matter is that Joey Harrington and David Carr have plenty of time to become successful starters in the league.

Everyone around here thinks that Trent Green is so great and Rich Gannon was so great, but neither became a serviceable starter until LATE into their careers and over the age of 30.

But of course, none of these same people who proclaim that Eli Manning is a possible "bust" or the aforementioned players are bust don't know that they're ill-informed and myopic.

As the 'Planet turns.

Akili Smith was a bust. Cade McNown was a bust. Tim Couch was a bust.

Guys that throw for 15,000 yards in the NFL aren't busts. He may not have lived up to expectations in Detroit, but he's hardly a talentless bust.

And again, I give you Sean Payton as an example. The number one offense in the league. Why would Payton have this guy on his roster if he's a bust?

And if you'll recall, that same Joey Harrington beat the Chiefs while with Miami, effectively booting the Chiefs from the 2005 playoffs.

You know there are different levels of a pick than just 'this guy is a complete bust" and "wow great pick!'

Ouch. Embarrassing statement if true.

.

[MTG#10]

Because I'm a total idiot for thinking he's a bust I'm told.

I'm told by several, like

Mecca
Dane McLoud
Hamas

Harrington is not a bust. He has 15,000 yards. It's all Detroits fault. He's got bigtime talent.

One poster compared him to Steve Young.

They have to be ****ing with you. I think you've been had. Harrington and Carr arent "Ryan Leaf" busts but they have in no way justified their draft positions.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Because I'm a total idiot for thinking he's a bust I'm told.

I'm told by several, like

Mecca
Dane McLoud
Hamas

Harrington is not a bust. He has 15,000 yards. It's all Detroits fault. He's got bigtime talent.

One poster compared him to Steve Young.

Actually, I've said nothing about Harrington being a bust or not. You need better reading comprehension.

What I have done is insult you for dipshittedness.

[Basileus777]

Harrington is a bust, anyone saying otherwise is just fucking retarded.

[SAUTO]

So the question should read - "Based on where he was selected in the draft, was Joey Harrington a bust?".

Is that it?

what's the difference? is he a bust or not? where he was drafted isnt changing

[SAUTO]

Actually, I've said nothing about Harrington being a bust or not. You need better reading comprehension.

What I have done is insult you for dipshittedness.

notice hamas i quoted mecca and dane couldnt find a post where you actually agreed. not saying there isnt one i just didnt see one.

[SAUTO]

They have to be ****ing with you. I think you've been had. Harrington and Carr arent "Ryan Leaf" busts but they have in no way justified their draft positions.

post #16 dane is serious

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I'm eagerly awaiting someone insulting me for me pimping Joey Harrington when I've mentioned nothing about the dumb sonofabitch

LMAO

[CrazyHorse]

Actually, I've said nothing about Harrington being a bust or not. You need better reading comprehension.

What I have done is insult you for dipshittedness.

Being a dipshit, I pity you for not having the balls to stand behind your earlier statement. How's that grab ya?

BTW, you haven't voted.

[SAUTO]

I'm eagerly awaiting someone insulting me for me pimping Joey Harrington when I've mentioned nothing about the dumb sonofabitch

LMAO

post#21 hamas

[milkman]

Because I'm a total idiot for thinking he's a bust I'm told.

I'm told by several, like

Mecca
Dane McLoud
Hamas

Harrington is not a bust. He has 15,000 yards. It's all Detroits fault. He's got bigtime talent.

One poster compared him to Steve Young.

Using your definition, Jim Plunkett was a bust.

He's a guy whose confidence took a beating at the same time his body did.
He hung around the league for a number of years until he landed in a good situation and lead his team to a SB victory.

I know that Harrington had the talent when he came out, and he may never land in the right situation, and even if he does, he will never overcome the fact that he hasn't played to the level of expectation that his draft status put on him.

[CrazyHorse]

I'm eagerly awaiting someone insulting me for me pimping Joey Harrington when I've mentioned nothing about the dumb sonofabitch

LMAO


You posted in another thread that Dane was schooling someone who was trying to argue the point that Harrington was a bust. One poster said he was a bust, Dane was argueing the opposite. You said, Dane was winning the battel. If I was wrong in my assessment, I have already apologized in the other thread sevaral minutes ago. You have yet to post your opposing opinion on the matter and........


....you haven't voted in this poll yet, BTW.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

post#21 hamas

I'm predicting the future based on what Crazy Horse said.

[SAUTO]

I'm predicting the future based on what Crazy Horse said.

cool then

[CrazyHorse]

Using your definition, Jim Plunkett was a bust.

He's a guy whose confidence took a beating at the same time his body did.
He hung around the league for a number of years until he landed in a good situation and lead his team to a SB victory.

I know that Harrington had the talent when he came out, and he may never land in the right situation, and even if he does, he will never overcome the fact that he hasn't played to the level of expectation that his draft status put on him.

We are talking about current history. Not guestimating the future. If you'd like to say he;s not a bust, I encourage you to vote accordingly. In my opinion Harrington sucks. If he compares to Plunkett, then for the majority of Plunketts carreer he was a bust.

[Deberg_1990]

BTW, looking back at that 02 draft, it was overall very weak. The best all around player looks to be Haynsworth and he wasnt even picked until 15.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

You posted in another thread that Dane was schooling someone who was trying to argue the point that Harrington was a bust. One poster said he was a bust, Dane was argueing the opposite. You said, Dane was winning the battel. If I was wrong in my assessment, I have already apologized in the other thread sevaral minutes ago. You have yet to post your opposing opinion on the matter and........


....you haven't voted in this poll yet, BTW.

Here was the post in question:

I think Dane did a pretty good job of putting that ignorant sonofabitch in the brazen bull and listening to the screams of the bovine.

What I was referring to was JPB's assertion that Sanchez=bust b/c he's a jr. and Dane's refutation of that. I never said or implied anything about Harrington.

You need reading comprehension lessons.

[Reerun_KC]

I voted "NO he is not a bust" just to watch these guys piss all over themselves because someone didnt comform to their way of thinking...

Depends anyone?

[Ultra Peanut]

I'm eagerly awaiting someone insulting me for me pimping Joey Harrington when I've mentioned nothing about the dumb sonofabitch

LMAOHe's not dumb. He's a smart, sweet guy who has everything you could want in an NFL quarterback.

Except he sucks.

[milkman]

We are talking about current history. Not guestimating the future. If you'd like to say he;s not a bust, I encourage you to vote accordingly. In my opinion Harrington sucks. If he compares to Plunkett, then for the majority of Plunketts carreer he was a bust.

I said that he is a bust, using your definition.

[dirk digler]

I think he is a bust up to this point in time. Same thing with Carr.

They both can turn it around but the odds are against them.

I asked this in the other thread and no one answered me but does anyone NOT think Alex Smith is a bust?

[SAUTO]

Using your definition, Jim Plunkett was a bust.

He's a guy whose confidence took a beating at the same time his body did.
He hung around the league for a number of years until he landed in a good situation and lead his team to a SB victory.

I know that Harrington had the talent when he came out, and he may never land in the right situation, and even if he does, he will never overcome the fact that he hasn't played to the level of expectation that his draft status put on him.

basically what the argument boils down to MM is "would you be happy if we drafted him at #3 and his career played out the same way?"

[Hydrae]

I can't vote in this poll. I would not say he is a bust, he is still in the league and is a viable QB. However he also has not justified his draft position so in that manner he is a bust.

[CrazyHorse]

I think he is a bust up to this point in time. Same thing with Carr.

They both can turn it around but the odds are against them.

I asked this in the other thread and no one answered me but does anyone NOT think Alex Smith is a bust?

Yes, at this point he's a bust.

[SAUTO]

I think he is a bust up to this point in time. Same thing with Carr.

They both can turn it around but the odds are against them.

I asked this in the other thread and no one answered me but does anyone NOT think Alex Smith is a bust?

smith=bust, and for the team that drafted harrington and carr they will ALWAYS be busts no matter what

[Reerun_KC]

Yes, at this point he's a bust.

Kind of like LJ or DJ?

Maybe a Ryan Simms?

[CrazyHorse]

I can't vote in this poll. I would not say he is a bust, he is still in the league and is a viable QB. However he also has not justified his draft position so in that manner he is a bust.

The only way to look at it, is what has he done to this point. He's been given the opportunity, and done nothing with it. The poll was not intended to ask folks to read the future. But to evaluate what they have done thus far in thier carreer.

[blueballs]

Milen has chest tattoos
(Joey) (Harrington)

[Just Passin' By]

Here was the post in question:

I think Dane did a pretty good job of putting that ignorant sonofabitch in the brazen bull and listening to the screams of the bovine.

What I was referring to was JPB's assertion that Sanchez=bust b/c he's a jr. and Dane's refutation of that. I never said or implied anything about Harrington.

You need reading comprehension lessons.

Given that I never said Sanchez was a bust, perhaps it's you that could improve in the reading comprehension area.

[DeezNutz]

I asked this in the other thread and no one answered me but does anyone NOT think Alex Smith is a bust?

Sure. But the real busts were the ignorant motherfuckers in the FO who selected a player hoping and wishing that he'd become something he'd never been.

Thus the worry about spread monkeys and the value of elite talents playing in pro-style systems.

[CrazyHorse]

Kind of like LJ or DJ?

Maybe a Ryan Simms?

Those players are still on the field. But he's entering the Ryan Sims area.IMO

[SAUTO]

ok guys if ryan sims becomes a GREAT player was he still a bust for the chiefs?

[CrazyHorse]

Given that I never said Sanchez was a bust, perhaps it's you that could improve in the reading comprehension area.

This.

[SAUTO]

BTW where did dane go with all the fury he was gonna unleash?

[dirk digler]

Sure. But the real busts were the ignorant motherfuckers in the FO who selected a player hoping and wishing that he'd become something he'd never been.

Thus the worry about spread monkeys and the value of elite talents playing in pro-style systems.

But he is still a bust. Same thing with Carr and Harrington.

Just curious because I don't remember what kind of offense did Oregon run while Harrington was qb?

[bdeg]

Dane McCloud you need to get off your f***ing high horse. Perfect example right here. Every post is an insult, and the fact of the matter is you know less than the average poster. I'm sick of reading your posts in the draft forum.

[milkman]

basically what the argument boils down to MM is "would you be happy if we drafted him at #3 and his career played out the same way?"

No, I would not be happy.

But the problem with this poll is that CH is trying to justify his position that we shouldn't draft Mark Sanchez because of Joey Harrington.

I don't care that Harrington is a bust.

It has no bearing on this draft.

[SAUTO]

No, I would not be happy.

But the problem with this poll is that CH is trying to justify his position that we shouldn't draft Mark Sanchez because of Joey Harrington.

I don't care that Harrington is a bust.

It has no bearing on this draft.

dane asked for the poll(and i love sanchez, not so much stafford)

[dirk digler]

No, I would not be happy.

But the problem with this poll is that CH is trying to justify his position that we shouldn't draft Mark Sanchez because of Joey Harrington.

I don't care that Harrington is a bust.

It has no bearing on this draft.

I tend to agree. You can't go into the draft scared about picking busts.

If Pioli\Haley pick Sanchez I will be happy because I trust their judgment.

[Reerun_KC]

Those players are still on the field. But he's entering the Ryan Sims area.IMO

Yeah DJ is on the field, would be nice if he would show up more that one game a season...

He hasnt justified his 1st round status yet....
And LJ, had one good season behind DV's line, then an okay season behind Herms brilliance......

Other than that, he has been a big waste of ass for the money he is getting and the position he was drafted...

[Reerun_KC]

Dane McCloud you need to get off your f***ing high horse. Perfect example right here. Every post is an insult, and the fact of the matter is you know less than the average poster. I'm sick of reading your posts in the draft forum.

There is a feature called ignore...

[CrazyHorse]

No, I would not be happy.

But the problem with this poll is that CH is trying to justify his position that we shouldn't draft Mark Sanchez because of Joey Harrington.

I don't care that Harrington is a bust.

It has no bearing on this draft.

This has nothing to do with Sanchez. That's not my posting style. This is a poll to establish the pulse of the posters opinion on the subject of JH and his status as an NFL QB.

BTW, I'm on record several times saying I would be satisfied with Sanchez. He's not my 1st choice and I have stated why. I just want a good player. I think he's risky. But would be okay if he's drafted.

[CrazyHorse]

Yeah DJ is on the field, would be nice if he would show up more that one game a season...

He hasnt justified his 1st round status yet....

Couldn't agree more.

[Just Passin' By]

No, I would not be happy.

But the problem with this poll is that CH is trying to justify his position that we shouldn't draft Mark Sanchez because of Joey Harrington.

I don't care that Harrington is a bust.

It has no bearing on this draft.

For the record, I agree that nobody should decide to draft, or not draft, any player this year because of one player in another year. It's one thing to look at all the data to help make your decision. It's another thing completely to allow that data to change your mind based solely upon the past.

If Pioli thinks there's a quarterback in this draft that's worth the #3 pick, he should take that player. But I don't think that's been the problem on this board. The problem is that a small group of posters insults anyone who feels, for whatever reason, that there's not a quarterback worth that #3 spot this season, when the reality is that there are concerns about both of the top quarterbacks, and those concerns aren't only in the mind of the so-called "true fans".

[Bearcat]

Dane McCloud you need to get off your f***ing high horse. Perfect example right here. Every post is an insult, and the fact of the matter is you know less than the average poster. I'm sick of reading your posts in the draft forum.

He does make some good points though... just have to look past the "you f***ing moron" part. ;)


I do think it's harder than bust/not a bust, and that you can't really tell at this point of his career. I couldn't imagine a lot of quarterbacks, such as Eli Manning, being successful in Detroit.

[SAUTO]

He does make some good points though... just have to look past the "you f***ing moron" part. ;)


I do think it's harder than bust/not a bust, and that you can't really tell at this point of his career. I couldn't imagine a lot of quarterbacks, such as Eli Manning, being successful in Detroit.

he's in miami backing up pennington drafted top 5 what 7 years ago, yeah he's a bust, and for detroit he ALWAYS will be

[bdeg]

He does make some good points though... just have to look past the "you f***ing moron" part. ;)


I do think it's harder than bust/not a bust, and that you can't really tell at this point of his career. I couldn't imagine a lot of quarterbacks, such as Eli Manning, being successful in Detroit.

I guess that's where we disagree. I see him repeating, and he can look up stats as evidenced by the fact he though Harrington was good because of yards.

[bdeg]

There is a feature called ignore...

I've never had to use it, was hoping I never would.

[Reerun_KC]

I've never had to use it, was hoping I never would.

I have a list a mile long, IF you dont like someone or what they post, just add them and you dont have to worry about it...

Dane would be one of the last I would put on my list... He usually has solid takes and is an overall good cat...

[bdeg]

I have a list a mile long, IF you dont like someone or what they post, just add them and you dont have to worry about it...

Dane would be one of the last I would put on my list... He usually has solid takes and is an overall good cat...
I did that little "find more posts by user" thing. All 6 or 7 I read he was insulting someone, this was my favorite though.

"You know, I really don't give a flying **** what you and the other dumb****s that don't know jackshit outside of the Chiefs think about Harrington or any other recently drafted QB's.

There are many people in this forum that think that Aikman sucked.

Chiefs fans are not very good judges of QB play."

[Reerun_KC]

I did that little "find more posts by user" thing. All 6 or 7 I read he was insulting someone, this was my favorite though.

"You know, I really don't give a flying **** what you and the other dumb****s that don't know jackshit outside of the Chiefs think about Harrington or any other recently drafted QB's.

There are many people in this forum that think that Aikman sucked.

Chiefs fans are not very good judges of QB play."

Well he could of been less verbally abusive, but he was spot on in his post...

I dont think Harrington is all that, but true on Chiefs fans bashing Aikman AND Chiefs fans dont know ass about QB's... Most of them are brainwashed mindless lemmings longing for Carls return...

[beach tribe]

Hell NO!! Joey Harrington is Norrislike.

[Reerun_KC]

ROFL @ Reeun

I am still the only one that voted No he is not a bust....

I stand alone!

['Hamas' Jenkins]

ChiefsPlanet:

Where Bob Sanders > Peyton Manning, Troy Aikman was a game manager, and Tyler Thigpen compares favorably to Steve Young.

[CupidStunt]

He's as much a bust as those tools here that think they're football Gods and yet you can tell from everything they say that they've never put their hand in the dirt and done anything on a football field.

So, yes, an epic bust.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

He's as much a bust as those tools here that think they're football Gods and yet you can tell from everything they say that they've never put their hand in the dirt and done anything on a football field.

So, yes, an epic bust.

Are you talking about the guy in your avatar?

[Frankie]

The fact that CP was in love with him and really wanted to draft him answers the question raised by this topic.

[Bearcat]

ROFL @ Reeun

I am still the only one that voted No he is not a bust....

I stand alone!

Oops, I never voted.

Given just those two options, I'm saying no... but he falls somewhere in between. Maybe 'incomplete' at this point, even though he's been around a while. There just aren't that many quarterbacks who can go into a bad situation and carry an entire team. Had Eli Manning gone to the Lions, he'd be in Harrington's shoes.

[RJ]

what's the difference? is he a bust or not? where he was drafted isnt changing



Well, if I'm a Lions fan and my team drafted Harrington in the 4th round I'd classify him as an excellent pick who was very serviceable for a few years, a great value.

If I'm Lions fan and my team drafted him with the 3rd overall pick in the draft I'd classify him a bust.

In real life, I classify him as a mediocre NFL QB why didn't live up to his hype, but not a "bust".

[Rain Man]

In the poll, I'd call him a bust. In real life, he's not a true bust but more of a major disappointment.

[CupidStunt]

Are you talking about the guy in your avatar?

He's done something on the football field -- COACHED.

Not sat on his arse and pissed his life away on the internet.

[DaneMcCloud]

dane asked him to start a poll. he says harrington and david carr have justified their draft position

You're a fucking liar and a fucking moron.

Find that quote where I said ANY such thing.

Fucking grammar challenged, brain-dead doofus.

[doomy3]

I can't vote in this poll. I would not say he is a bust, he is still in the league and is a viable QB. However he also has not justified his draft position so in that manner he is a bust.

So, Ryan Sims clearly wasn't a bust either.

[doomy3]

ChiefsPlanet:

Where Bob Sanders > Peyton Manning, Troy Aikman was a game manager, and Tyler Thigpen compares favorably to Steve Young.

Yeah, maybe you missed the poll where Manning SMOKED Derrick Thomas on if we could have one of the other. I think Bob Sanders would be much worse results too. Oh well, keep making these uninformed generalizations.

[ChiefsCountry]

In the poll, I'd call him a bust. In real life, he's not a true bust but more of a major disappointment.

Exactly.

[CupidStunt]

You're a ****ing liar and a ****ing moron.

Find that quote where I said ANY such thing.

****ing grammar challenged, brain-dead doofus.

Nerve: struck. LMAO

[J Diddy]

I think the pick was a bust, but he's not.

[Frankie]

In the poll, I'd call him a bust. In real life, he's not a true bust but more of a major disappointment.

Why? Is he a drinking Dad or something?

[DaneMcCloud]

Nerve: struck. LMAO

Um, no.

Try to keep up.

[DaneMcCloud]

.

Thanks for proving my point, Jason.

Or should that read JASONSAUTO!

Bumblefuck.

[DaneMcCloud]

Using your definition, Jim Plunkett was a bust.

He's a guy whose confidence took a beating at the same time his body did.
He hung around the league for a number of years until he landed in a good situation and lead his team to a SB victory.

I know that Harrington had the talent when he came out, and he may never land in the right situation, and even if he does, he will never overcome the fact that he hasn't played to the level of expectation that his draft status put on him.

I've said this time and time again, yet these fucking football morons won't hear of it.

I've asked "CrazyHorse" 4 fucking times now:

Is Steve Young a Bust?

Is Jim Plunkett a bust?

He can start a poll, but he can't answer the questions.

[doomy3]

I've said this time and time again, yet these ****ing football morons won't hear of it.

I've asked "CrazyHorse" 4 ****ing times now:

Is Steve Young a Bust?

Is Jim Plunkett a bust?

He can start a poll, but he can't answer the questions.

You're honestly comparing Steve Young to Joey Harrington? Who's the football moron?

He probably thought you were joking and that's why he didn't answer your question. I would have thought that.

[DaneMcCloud]

I think he is a bust up to this point in time. Same thing with Carr.

They both can turn it around but the odds are against them.

I asked this in the other thread and no one answered me but does anyone NOT think Alex Smith is a bust?

Alex Smith is different than Harrington and Carr in that he played exclusively in Urban Meyer's spread offense. He could'nt make the transition to playing under center and he was drafted way too young (age 20).

He's certainly been a disappointment for the 49ers but they've changed offensive philosophies a number of time and much like the Lions and Texans, their problems extend far and away outside of the QB position.

I think Smith is like 24 years old. He's made $30 million plus dollars. Beyond that, I have no idea if he has the drive or the ability to learn how to play in a Pro-Style offense.

Again, guys like Smith, Harrington and Carr have never had a chance to succeed. They've played on shitty teams (until now, for Carr) with a serious lack of overall talent on their football teams. It's not as if each guy has been dumped from their respective football teams and each team plugged in a different QB and immediately had success.

It's a much bigger issue.

[DaneMcCloud]

You're honestly comparing Steve Young to Joey Harrington? Who's the football moron?

He probably thought you were joking and that's why he didn't answer your question. I would have thought that.

Do you have any football knowledge, AT ALL?

Do you know that Steve Young was the #1 overall pick by the Buccaneers and sucked? They shipped him off to the 49ers, where he finally learned how to become a QB?

Do you know that Jim Plunkett was #1 overall? He was dumped by the Patriots after 8 years, only to lead the Raiders to TWO Super Bowls past the age of 35?

Did you know these things, or are you just using hindsight as your guide?

[DaneMcCloud]

basically what the argument boils down to MM is "would you be happy if we drafted him at #3 and his career played out the same way?"

No, it doesn't, JASON.

[DaneMcCloud]

Dane McCloud you need to get off your f***ing high horse. Perfect example right here. Every post is an insult, and the fact of the matter is you know less than the average poster. I'm sick of reading your posts in the draft forum.

ROFL

Go fist yourself and put me on ignore.

Then walk into an AIDS tree.

[RNR]

Using your definition, Jim Plunkett was a bust.

He's a guy whose confidence took a beating at the same time his body did.
He hung around the league for a number of years until he landed in a good situation and lead his team to a SB victory.

I know that Harrington had the talent when he came out, and he may never land in the right situation, and even if he does, he will never overcome the fact that he hasn't played to the level of expectation that his draft status put on him.

He won two :)

[DaneMcCloud]

he's in miami backing up pennington drafted top 5 what 7 years ago, yeah he's a bust, and for detroit he ALWAYS will be

JFC, JASON, WRONG AGAIN.

Besides the fact that the Joey Harrington led Dolphins beat the Trent Green/LJ/ALL WORLD offensive line in 2005 (thus pushing them out of the playoffs), HE'S BACKING UP DREW BREES IN NEW ORLEANS.

Maybe it's just me, but I think that Sean Payton knows a little bit more about QB's than your hick-ass.

[Mecca]

I don't know how anyone ever looked at Alex Smith highly...he was a RS Sophomore from Urban Meyers spread which is even worse than a typical spread not to mention he has tiny hands.

[DaneMcCloud]

I don't know how anyone ever looked at Alex Smith highly...he was a RS Sophomore from Urban Meyers spread which is even worse than a typical spread not to mention he has tiny hands.

Exactly.

Urban Meyer QB's have not and probably will not fare well in the NFL.

[doomy3]

Do you have any football knowledge, AT ALL?

Do you know that Steve Young was the #1 overall pick by the Buccaneers and sucked? They shipped him off to the 49ers, where he finally learned how to become a QB?

Do you know that Jim Plunkett was #1 overall? He was dumped by the Patriots after 8 years, only to lead the Raiders to TWO Super Bowls past the age of 35?

Did you know these things, or are you just using hindsight as your guide?

I think it is hilarious to see you make these ridiculous comparisons when you try to get them to support your argument, but when someone makes a comparison to a great QB, they are immediately a fucking retard, or they need to die of AIDS or something equally as compelling as most of your posts. Yes, I knew that about Steve Young. I didn't bring up Plunkett because I don't know a ton about him. But, since we are talking about facts:

Steve Young was traded for the 49ers 2nd and 4th draft picks, Harrington was given away for a 6th round pick to the Dolphins, where he was released the next year. He was then released again one year later after being signed by the Falcons. Now he has been with the Saints for one year, so we will see if the trend continues and he is released this year.

Harrington is 7 years into his NFL career. 7 years into Young's NFL career, he had led the NFL in QB rating once, and was pushing Montana to KC. I guess as soon as Payton decides to trade Brees in favor of Harrington, I will be able to see the comparison as clearly as you. Hopefully my football knowledge will catch up to yours at that point, though that seems about as unlikely as Harrington getting ditched by his 4th team in 7 years, right?

[Mecca]

I think it is hilarious to see you make these ridiculous comparisons when you try to get them to support your argument, but when someone makes a comparison to a great QB, they are immediately a fucking retard, or they need to die of AIDS or something equally as compelling as most of your posts. Yes, I knew that about Steve Young. I didn't bring up Plunkett because I don't know a ton about him. But, since we are talking about facts:

Steve Young was traded for the 49ers 2nd and 4th draft picks, Harrington was given away for a 6th round pick to the Dolphins, where he was released the next year. He was then released again one year later after being signed by the Falcons. Now he has been with the Saints for one year, so we will see if the trend continues and he is released this year.

Harrington is 7 years into his NFL career. 7 years into Young's NFL career, he had led the NFL in QB rating once, and was pushing Montana to KC. I guess as soon as Payton decides to trade Brees in favor of Harrington, I will be able to see the comparison as clearly as you. Hopefully my football knowledge will catch up to yours at that point, though that seems about as unlikely as Harrington getting ditched by his 4th team in 7 years, right?

Well you could still compare him to Rich Gannon who some people think ridiculously highly of around here.

[doomy3]

Well you could still compare him to Rich Gannon who some people think ridiculously highly of around here.

yeah, I guess you could besides the fact that Gannon was a fourth round pick and Harrington was #3 overall. The value there is about the same.

[SAUTO]

JFC, JASON, WRONG AGAIN.

Besides the fact that the Joey Harrington led Dolphins beat the Trent Green/LJ/ALL WORLD offensive line in 2005 (thus pushing them out of the playoffs), HE'S BACKING UP DREW BREES IN NEW ORLEANS.

Maybe it's just me, but I think that Sean Payton knows a little bit more about QB's than your hick-ass.

wow he beat the chiefs once, yep tha proves that he's not a bustROFL and no matter where, dane, he's still a top 5 pick that 7 years in is a backup PERIOD. dane, is leonard davis a bust?

[whoman69]

Trying to pull out the crystal ball and say he's not a bust because he could get a break in the future is a circular argument. By that argument nobody is a bust until they are completely out of the league. The guy was drafted #3 overall and hasn't led his team to a winning record yet. Ask any Lions' fan if they think they got value out of Harrington. Plunkett was a bust for the 49ers and the Pats. I don't think anyone would say that the Raiders won their Super Bowls because they had a special QB. He was a guy that would make the occassional spectacular play and not hurt his team. That puts him a lot closer to Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson than it does to Peyton Manning and Troy Aikman.

[Mecca]

Trying to pull out the crystal ball and say he's not a bust because he could get a break in the future is a circular argument. By that argument nobody is a bust until they are completely out of the league. The guy was drafted #3 overall and hasn't led his team to a winning record yet. Ask any Lions' fan if they think they got value out of Harrington. Plunkett was a bust for the 49ers and the Pats. I don't think anyone would say that the Raiders won their Super Bowls because they had a special QB. He was a guy that would make the occassional spectacular play and not hurt his team. That puts him a lot closer to Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson than it does to Peyton Manning and Troy Aikman.

That's like I said which Jason somehow thought was a defense post there are different levels of picks than just "worst pick ever" and "best pick ever"

[doomy3]

That's like I said which Jason somehow thought was a defense post there are different levels of picks than just "worst pick ever" and "best pick ever"

So, how'd you vote, Mecca? Is he a bust IYO, or not?

[DaneMcCloud]

I think it is hilarious to see you make these ridiculous comparisons when you try to get them to support your argument, but when someone makes a comparison to a great QB, they are immediately a fucking retard, or they need to die of AIDS or something equally as compelling as most of your posts. Yes, I knew that about Steve Young. I didn't bring up Plunkett because I don't know a ton about him. But, since we are talking about facts


Look, Doomy. The reason for bringing up Young and Plunkett was that before going to the 49ers and Raiders respectively, they could both be considered "busts" when in reality, that was far from the case.

No one knows if David Carr or Joey Harrington will suddenly "get it" and become a successful QB in the league, but both are still working at it and are on NFL rosters. IMO, that doesn't make them the classic "bust" like Leaf, Smith, McNown, McGuire, Marinovich, etc. They just failed to live up to expectations.

Furthermore, Carr & Harrington went to very poor teams (an expansion franchise and another that should be considered an expansion franchise) and though both have gone through several QB's since, neither has dramatically improved (and in the case of the Lions, they've only become worse).

So from that standpoint, do you blame the player for failing, or the organization? The front office and coaching staff or are Harrington and Carr ultimately responsible for their respective franchise's failures?

Since they're still in the league and both teams have new front offices (and along with different head coaches), it appears to ME that the blame does not entirely belong on these particular QB's shoulders.

And THAT'S what separates these two guys from being the classic "one and done" bust.

[SAUTO]

That's like I said which Jason somehow thought was a defense post there are different levels of picks than just "worst pick ever" and "best pick ever"

mecca how does what he said mean that? a guy drafted at #3 who 7 years in is a backup, never led a team to a winning record, got traded for a 6th round pick is a BUST no two ways about it. for the team drafting him he's a BUST. even if he went on to win a super bowl for whoever he played for any year to the detroit lions he will always be a bust. kinda like leonard davis.

[SAUTO]

Look, Doomy. The reason for bringing up Young and Plunkett was that before going to the 49ers and Raiders respectively, they could both be considered "busts" when in reality, that was far from the case.

No one knows if David Carr or Joey Harrington will suddenly "get it" and become a successful QB in the league, but both are still working at it and are on NFL rosters. IMO, that doesn't make them the classic "bust" like Leaf, Smith, McNown, McGuire, Marinovich, etc. They just failed to live up to expectations.

Furthermore, Carr & Harrington went to very poor teams (an expansion franchise and another that should be considered an expansion franchise) and though both have gone through several QB's since, neither has dramatically improved (and in the case of the Lions, they've only become worse).

So from that standpoint, do you blame the player for failing, or the organization? The front office and coaching staff or are Harrington and Carr ultimately responsible for their respective franchise's failures?

Since they're still in the league and both teams have new front offices (and along with different head coaches), it appears to ME that the blame does not entirely belong on these particular QB's shoulders.

who cares where the blame entirely falls the player is a bust for being drafted at three. that player hasnt lived up to where they were drafted, now if he was drafted in the 5th round then i could see your point. and if either were so great why are they backups? teams every year need starters, why arent these guys starters? better yet would YOU give up our #3 for either? how about our 3 rounder?

[doomy3]

Look, Doomy. The reason for bringing up Young and Plunkett was that before going to the 49ers and Raiders respectively, they could both be considered "busts" when in reality, that was far from the case.

No one knows if David Carr or Joey Harrington will suddenly "get it" and become a successful QB in the league, but both are still working at it and are on NFL rosters. IMO, that doesn't make them the classic "bust" like Leaf, Smith, McNown, McGuire, Marinovich, etc. They just failed to live up to expectations.

Furthermore, Carr & Harrington went to very poor teams (an expansion franchise and another that should be considered an expansion franchise) and though both have gone through several QB's since, neither has dramatically improved (and in the case of the Lions, they've only become worse).

So from that standpoint, do you blame the player for failing, or the organization? The front office and coaching staff or are Harrington and Carr ultimately responsible for their respective franchise's failures?

Since they're still in the league and both teams have new front offices (and along with different head coaches), it appears to ME that the blame does not entirely belong on these particular QB's shoulders.

This argument of playing on a shitty team only apply for first round picks? Where is the exception for Thigpen that he may get it. He did play on a shitty team afterall. And, again, why can't Harrington stick with any team, even as a backup? Yeah, I know Ryan was drafted last year, but Harrington couldn't beat Chris Redman or DJ Shockley for a backup spot. This wasn't a shitty team either, this was a playoff team.

[DaneMcCloud]

This argument of playing on a shitty team only apply for first round picks? Where is the exception for Thigpen that he may get it. He did play on a shitty team afterall. And, again, why can't Harrington stick with any team, even as a backup? Yeah, I know Ryan was drafted last year, but Harrington couldn't beat Chris Redman or DJ Shockley for a backup spot. This wasn't a shitty team either, this was a playoff team.

When Tyler Thigpen learns how to play in a Pro-Style offense, we can compare his career to Joey Harrington's.

Furthermore, do I look like I work for the Falcons? How do I know why he was released? I do know that he was signed by the Saints, and for some reason, I think Sean Payton knows a little bit about QB's.

Or is Payton an idiot, too?

[doomy3]

When Tyler Thigpen learns how to play in a Pro-Style offense, we can compare his career to Joey Harrington.

Furthermore, do I look like I work for the Falcons? How do I know why he was released? I do know that he was signed by the Saints, and for some reason, I think Sean Payton knows a little bit about QB's.

Or is Payton an idiot, too?

I didn't say anything about Payton being an idiot. Do I look like I work for the Saints? But since you do keep bringing up what a QB genious he is, before he got blessed with having an already proven Drew Brees as his QB in New Orleans, he really did a number as QB coach in Dallas with Quincy Carter, Vinny Testaverde, and Drew Bledsoe.

Like I said, as soon as Payton trades Brees to someone in favor of Harrington, maybe your argument will make some more sense.

[DaneMcCloud]

Like I said, as soon as Payton trades Brees to someone in favor of Harrington, maybe your argument will make some more sense.

ROFL

JFC. You just won't stop with this shit, will you? You did it in the Draft Forum (when everyone else but you agreed he wasn't a bust) and even when given a reasonable explanation as to why he isn't a bust, you still don't give up. Harrington's still employed in the NFL after 8 years. He may not have lived up to expectations but he's not a classic bust.

You've got your opinion, I've got mine.

End of story.

[SAUTO]

ROFL

JFC. You just won't stop with this shit, will you? You did it in the Draft Forum (when everyone else but you agreed he wasn't a bust) and even when given a reasonable explanation as to why he isn't a bust, you don't give up. Harrington's still employed in the NFL after 8 years. He may not have lived up to expectations but he's not a classic bust.

You've got your opinion, I've got mine.

is that all it takes to not be a bust? be on a roster for 6-7-8 years? damn dane

[doomy3]

ROFL

JFC. You just won't stop with this shit, will you? You did it in the Draft Forum (when everyone else but you agreed he wasn't a bust) and even when given a reasonable explanation as to why he isn't a bust, you still don't give up. Harrington's still employed in the NFL after 8 years. He may not have lived up to expectations but he's not a classic bust.

You've got your opinion, I've got mine.

End of story.


Uh, if by "everyone" you mean yourself and your puppy dog, Reerun, then you would be correct. No one really responded to that other than you and I. But, I think clearly this poll states that "everyone" doesn't agree with you on this subject.

But that's cool about us both having an opinion. Notice I'm not calling you any names, telling you to die, etc for having the wrong opinion. :D

See, it can be done.

[DaneMcCloud]

is that all it takes to not be a bust? be on a roster for 6-7-8 years? damn dane

Apparently, many Chiefsplanet forum members don't understand the phrase "bust" or how it's applied to NFL first round players.

Again, Leaf, Akili Smith, Cade McNown, Dan McGuire and Todd Marinovich are busts. Their careers sunk almost immediately. They failed to do anything of substance with any other football team after being released.

David Carr is a backup to Eli Manning. The Texans still suck, even after he's been gone for two years. Joey Harrington is in New Orleans. The Detroit Lions still suck after he was traded.

Coincedence?

Obviously, both of these guys have talent or they wouldn't be drawing an NFL paycheck. Both were drafted by shitty teams and received shitty coaching and nearly no offensive help (let alone, offensive lines). But yet, you expect them to succeed?

But again, many Chiefsplanet members feel that Eli Manning is a bust and that Troy Aikman really wasn't all that good. So, what does that tell you? It tells me that many of these people feel like it should be Pro Bowl or Super Bowl, or you're a "bust".

I guess I just have a different definition than those people.

[DaneMcCloud]

Uh, if by "everyone" you mean yourself and your puppy dog, Reerun, then you would be correct. No one really responded to that other than you and I. But, I think clearly this poll states that "everyone" doesn't agree with you on this subject.

But that's cool about us both having an opinion. Notice I'm not calling you any names, telling you to die, etc for having the wrong opinion. :D

See, it can be done.

That's not true. OTW58 agreed, as have others.

Hey, I have no problem disagreeing but when you take a condescending tone and start name calling, as have a few other posters, I'll strike right back.

[SAUTO]

Apparently, many Chiefsplanet forum members don't understand the phrase "bust" or how it's applied to NFL first round players.

Again, Leaf, Akili Smith, Cade McNown, Dan McGuire and Todd Marinovich are busts. Their careers sunk almost immediately. They failed to do anything of substance with any other football team after being released.

David Carr is a backup to Eli Manning. The Texans still suck, even after he's been gone for two years. Joey Harrington is in New Orleans. The Detroit Lions still suck after he was traded.

Coincedence?

Obviously, both of these guys have talent or they wouldn't be drawing an NFL paycheck. Both were drafted by shitty teams and received shitty coaching and nearly no offensive help (let alone, offensive lines). But yet, you expect them to succeed?

But again, many Chiefsplanet members feel that Eli Manning is a bust and that Troy Aikman really wasn't all that good. So, what does that tell you? It tells me that many of these people feel like it should be Pro Bowl or Super Bowl, or you're a "bust".

I guess I just have a different definition than those people.

so thigpen has a chance? he fits every criteria you just mentioned.

[DaneMcCloud]

so thigpen has a chance? he fits every criteria you just mentioned.

Has a chance? Yes.

IF he can learn how to play under center and read an NFL defense.

If he can't, then no.

[SAUTO]

That's not true. OTW58 agreed, as have others.

Hey, I have no problem disagreeing but when you take a condescending tone and start name calling, as have a few other poster, I'll strike right backs.

dane usually you strike first. actually i cant remember when someone else did. and most often i really like you and your takes. just dont agree here, NONE of us(you included) would say what you are saying if the chiefs would have drafted him and his career played out that way

[SAUTO]

Has a chance? Yes.

IF he can learn how to play under center and read an NFL defense.

If he can't, then no.

i was kind of fucking with you there.you've calmed down a little thats good to see:D

[DaneMcCloud]

That's not true. OTW58 agreed, as have others.

Hey, I have no problem disagreeing but when you take a condescending tone and start name calling, as have a few other poster, I'll strike right backs.

dane usually you strike first. actually i cant remember when someone else did. and most often i really like you and your takes. just dont agree here, NONE of us(you included) would say what you are saying if the chiesf would have drafted him and his career played out that way

Well, there's no way of knowing if that were to be true, is there?

Vermeil, Peterson and Saunders all mentioned on several occasions that they like Harrington. Who's to say that Harrington wouldn't have been successful in KC if they had drafted him?

He certainly hasn't been as successful as you'd like but with the teams he's played for and the coaches he's played for, he really hasn't had much of an opportunity, has he?

[SAUTO]

[quote=JASONSAUTO;5513792]

Well, there's no way of knowing if that were to be true, is there?

Vermeil, Peterson and Saunders all mentioned on several occasions that they like Harrington. Who's to say that Harrington wouldn't have been successful in KC if they had drafted him?

He certainly hasn't been as successful as you'd like but with the teams he's played for and the coaches he's played for, he really hasn't had much of an opportunity, has he?

what i'm asking here is f we had drafted him AND his career took the same path we all would call him a bust because for our team he would have been, just like for the lions he always will be no matter what happens in his career

[DaneMcCloud]

[quote=DaneMcCloud;5513799]

what i'm asking here is f we had drafted him AND his career took the same path we all would call him a bust because for our team he would have been, just like for the lions he always will be no matter what happens in his career

Well honestly, I think a large percentage of people would give him the benefit of the doubt knowing that he played for the absolutely worst franchise in the entire NFL.

Maybe in NFL history.

[doomy3]

[quote=JASONSAUTO;5513803]

Well honestly, I think a large percentage of people would give him the benefit of the doubt knowing that he played for the absolutely worst franchise in the entire NFL.

Maybe in NFL history.

You think our franchise is the worst in NFL history?

[SAUTO]

[quote=JASONSAUTO;5513803]

Well honestly, I think a large percentage of people would give him the benefit of the doubt knowing that he played for the absolutely worst franchise in the entire NFL.

Maybe in NFL history.

dane of we had drafted him at #3 in 2002 and in 2009 his career had played out the exact same way would you say he was a bust?

[SAUTO]

[QUOTE=DaneMcCloud;5513827]

You think our franchise is the worst in NFL history?

i didnt say that quotes are fucked up. dane said that

[doomy3]

WTF is up with quotes? Yeah, I quoted Dane on that. Just wanted to see if he believes the Chiefs franchise to be the worst in the NFL like he said.

[DaneMcCloud]

dane of we had drafted him at #3 in 2002 and in 2009 his career had played out the exact same way would you say he was a bust?

Well again, Jason, I don't think his career would have been the same. Do you?

With LJ, TG, D-Bowe and an all-world offensive line (plus Vermeil & Saunders), it's impossible to say that he would have same the career.

[DaneMcCloud]

WTF is up with quotes? Yeah, I quoted Dane on that. Just wanted to see if he believes the Chiefs franchise to be the worst in the NFL like he said.

I was referring to the Lions franchise, not the Chiefs.

[doomy3]

I was referring to the Lions franchise, not the Chiefs.

Oh, I think you misunderstood his question. That makes more sense.

[SAUTO]

[quote=JASONSAUTO;5513830]

Well again, Jason, I don't think his career would have been the same. Do you?

With LJ, TG, D-Bowe and an all-world offensive line (plus Vermeil & Saunders), it's impossible to say that he would have same the career.

dane i'm not asking for us to assume anything, just if his career had taken the same path as a chief would you think he was a bust.PM SENT

[DaneMcCloud]

dane i'm not asking for us to assume anything, just if his career had taken the same path as a chief would you think he was a bust.PM SENT

Bust? No. Major disappointment? Yes.

Blackledge was a bust, no doubt about it.

Harrington hasn't been worthy of the #3 overall pick but as I stated earlier, it's not like he went to the Cowboys in 1989, either. The Cowboys built a team for Aikman AND had a great coaching staff.

Detroit sucked. Miami was a mess and Atlanta was worse.

IMO, the bottom line is that the guy still has plenty of time left to do something with his career. He's only 30 and he's still employed.

[Pioli Zombie]

would you be happy if we drafted him at #3 this year and his career played out the same way?

Mecca would probably be happy if stafford or sanchez turn out as good as harrington.
Posted via Mobile Device

[SAUTO]

Mecca would probably be happy if stafford or sanchez turn out as good as harrington.
Posted via Mobile Device

me and mecca dont see eye to eye much but i would highly doubt that.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Mecca would probably be happy if stafford or sanchez turn out as good as harrington.
Posted via Mobile Device

You really need to eat a short stack of Boston Pancakes, served up by your boy Pioli.

[Pioli Zombie]

You really need to eat a short stack of Boston Pancakes, served up by your boy Pioli.
Hamas, your grandfather called, he forgot which one of you's turn it was to go fuck your mother.

Care to add anything about football?
Posted via Mobile Device

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Hamas, your grandfather called, he forgot which one of you's turn it was to go fuck your mother.

Care to add anything about football?
Posted via Mobile Device

Sure.

Watching you talk smack is about as graceful as watching a bonobo shove a football up its own ass.

[Pioli Zombie]

Sure.

Watching you talk smack is about as graceful as watching a bonobo shove a football up its own ass.

Still haven't brought a thing to the table other than swearing or insulting people. Your a shithead like your boyfriend mecca.
Posted via Mobile Device

[ChiefsCountry]

Still haven't brought a thing to the table other than swearing or insulting people. Your a shithead like your boyfriend mecca.
Posted via Mobile Device

Your the dumbass who hasnt talked a single bit of football. All you have done is bitched how we dont all suck off Pioli.

[RNR]

ROFL

Go fist yourself and put me on ignore.

Then walk into an AIDS tree.

I do not know the poster this was directed at and that has nothing to do with the chuckle it gave me.

[Sully]

If those guys aren't bust, then either is Ryan sims. I think we'd all agree sims is a bust.

Hell, even though mandarich went on to have a couple of good seasons with the colts, we'd still consider him a huge bust.

[Reerun_KC]

Still haven't brought a thing to the table other than swearing or insulting people. Your a shithead like your boyfriend mecca.
Posted via Mobile Device

AT what point have you brought anything of substance on the Chiefs or football? You never back up anything you post, other than whining and crying...

[milkman]

I think it is hilarious to see you make these ridiculous comparisons when you try to get them to support your argument, but when someone makes a comparison to a great QB, they are immediately a ****ing retard, or they need to die of AIDS or something equally as compelling as most of your posts. Yes, I knew that about Steve Young. I didn't bring up Plunkett because I don't know a ton about him. But, since we are talking about facts

In looking at these comparisons, Harrington's career path, to this point, does look more like Jim Plunkett's than Steve Young's.

First overal pick who played for 6(?) years for the Patriots before being traded ot the 9ers, who released him after two years.

He then signed with the Raiders and sat on the bench for two years before his career took a surprising positive turn.

Patriot fans would probably call him a bust, but he ended up having a couple of productive seasons and leading the Raiders to two (my bad) SBs.

[King_Chief_Fan]

ChiefsPlanet-
The largest collection of unemployed football GM know it alls

[Pioli Zombie]

Your the dumbass who hasnt talked a single bit of football. All you have done is bitched how we dont all suck off Pioli.

Then obviously you can't read

Get help
Posted via Mobile Device

[Reerun_KC]

ChiefsPlanet-
The largest collection of unemployed football GM know it alls

Were pretty great arent we?

BTW, I have a job, dont you?

[Pioli Zombie]

Chiefs planet - agree with me or die of aids you retard. Duh
Posted via Mobile Device

[King_Chief_Fan]

Were pretty great arent we?

BTW, I have a job, dont you?
most certainly do...and a damn good one