another stupid expert doesn't believe in Sanchez and Stafford

[kcbubb]

I have taken out a few pieces of this article to irritate the Sanchez and Stafford lovers. If you want to read the entire article, here it is.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9260836/Teams-who-should-make-a-run-at-Matt-Cassel?MSNHPHMA

Teams who should make a run at Matt Cassel

by John Czarnecki
John Czarnecki has been the editorial consultant for FOX NFL Sunday since its 1994 inception. This season marks Czarnecki's 30th year covering the NFL. He is one of 44 selectors to the Pro Football Hall of Fame.


What the Patriots do or don't do with Cassel could define if not the top of the draft, but the draft in general.

Let's return to the Lions, who own the first pick in April's draft.

Today, there is no way the Lions will use that choice on either Georgia's Matt Stafford or USC's Mark Sanchez, the top-rated quarterbacks in the draft. Now, they might consider using it on Cassel, but they won't do that, either, even though he is preferred over the unknown rookies. Instead, the Lions will probably choose between two offensive tackles, Baylor's Jason Smith or Virginia's Eugene Monroe. It's the Jake Long syndrome all over again. Alabama's Andre Smith is out of the mix because his college coaches have been faint with their praise of their road-grader tackle who left here because he didn't feel like he was in the proper shape to compete.

Nothing against Stafford or Sanchez, but neither appears to be the next Matt Ryan or Joe Flacco. Now, Cassel displayed impressive tools in highly-pressurized situations last season, plus there's less wear and tear on his body, considering he's only played one season in the last eight years. Neither Stafford or Sanchez can claim that.

[Mecca]

Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco weren't "Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco" going into last years draft...

[L.A. Chieffan]

Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco weren't "Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco" going into last years draft...

i was just gonna say that. at least with joe flacco

[Mecca]

i was just gonna say that. at least with joe flacco

It's the same shit every year...no pick is a sure thing and people act like if a QB isn't a sure thing you can't possibly draft him.

[kcbubb]

here you go again with the fear tactics. what if people don't think he is that good? why can't you consider that maybe they aren't that good.

[Mecca]

here you go again with the fear tactics. what if people don't think he is that good? why can't you consider that maybe they aren't that good.

Because that same argument is used no matter who the QB is?

I'm sorry I have a really hard time taking an argument seriously when it is the exact same ones that have been used year after year and the names are replaced with the top prospects of the year.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

here you go again with the fear tactics. what if people don't think he is that good? why can't you consider that maybe they aren't that good.

Thanks for the lesson in forecasting the future based on revisionist history.

http://www.marclamonthill.com/mlhblog/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/cleodbts.jpg

[Mecca]

Every single prospect is different, trying to say "such and such underclassmen did this" is a nice stat but it has no bearing on how these guys will pan out.

You judge them based on what they are and frankly there aren't a whole lot of flaws there these guys are very comparable to Matt Ryan as prospects if not better prospects, no one will say that now because Ryan was good right away.

[ModSocks]

Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco weren't "Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco" going into last years draft...

Damn, beat me to it

[Brock]

Are you sure Carl Peterson didn't write this?

[Chief_in_Commander]

If Pioli thinks either one of them is good enough, I will definitley back him up and be happy, if he thinks otherwise, i'm ok with that too. It's so hard to know if it's going to be Matt Ryan or Jamarcus Russel.

[kcbubb]

who do you like better, Sanchez or Stafford?

[Fritz88]

Because that same argument is used no matter who the QB is?

.

I would not use that on Sam Bradford.

[ModSocks]

I hope we draft a QB and he succeeds, not just because im a Chiefs fan and want the best for my team, but because i would love to rub the shit in some of your faces.

Mecca is right, they say the same shit about every Qb every god-damn year. Some of you act like people doubting 1st rd Qb's is something new for these so called "experts". It's not. Quit sippin the hater-aid. They seem to hate on every QB in the draft every year unless he's black. If the Qb is black, or "a Dual threat" to keep it pc, then that Qb is the second coming of christ, ala Vick, Young, Russell and so forth.

[Mecca]

I would not use that on Sam Bradford.

Well he's from the Big 12 so obviously he would get an exemption from half the forum while being a worse prospect than both these guys.

[kcbubb]

Every single prospect is different, trying to say "such and such underclassmen did this" is a nice stat but it has no bearing on how these guys will pan out.

You judge them based on what they are and frankly there aren't a whole lot of flaws there these guys are very comparable to Matt Ryan as prospects if not better prospects, no one will say that now because Ryan was good right away.

I don't buy it. Especially with Sanchez. He doesn't have the God given ability that Ryan and Flacco have. Ryan and Flacco are both big guys with big arms. Sanchez is closer physically to Thigpen than to Ryan and Flacco.

[L.A. Chieffan]

I would not use that on Sam Bradford.

as soon as he declares all the experts will come out blasting away at him..."you know cross-eyed QBs have a VERY low success rate."

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco weren't "Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco" going into last years draft...

No, but they were big tall senior QB's with big arms and a ton of experience.

They were not 6'2" juniors with slightly above average arms and 16 games experience.

The honest truth is that Josh Freeman is more similar to Flacco and Ryan than Sanchez or Stafford is.

A big tall guy with a great arm and experience. He is still a junior, but of the trio of Stafford, Sanchez and Freeman, Freeman is the most similar to those two guys.

The one thing we don't know is intelligence. I would like to know what the three of them scored on the woderlic test.

[Mecca]

LOL, you dopes one of Matt Ryans biggest question marks was his arm, he does not have a rocket at all.

I love how the facts get changed to suit the argument. Matt Ryan in no way shape or form has a "big arm".

['Hamas' Jenkins]

No, but they were big tall senior QB's with big arms and a ton of experience.

They were not 6'2" juniors with slightly above average arms and 16 games experience.

The honest truth is that Josh Freeman is more similar to Flacco and Ryan than Sanchez or Stafford is.

A big tall guy with a great arm and experience. He is still a junior, but of the trio of Stafford, Sanchez and Freeman, Freeman is the most similar to those two guys.

The one thing we don't know is intelligence. I would like to know what the three of them scored on the woderlic test.

This is why people go off.

1) You claim that it's important for a QB to be a big, tall Sr. with a big arm
2) Matt Ryan does not have a big arm
3) Josh Freeman is not a Sr.
4) Matt Stafford wipes his ass with Freeman's arm strength. It's considerably better than Flacco's as well.

[ModSocks]

I don't buy it. Especially with Sanchez. He doesn't have the God given ability that Ryan and Flacco have. Ryan and Flacco are both big guys with big arms. Sanchez is closer physically to Thigpen than to Ryan and Flacco.

Everyone doubted Ryan last year. People were expecting him to slip. Flacco wasn't even expected to go in the first round. Stop comparing them, you're arguing against yourself.

[Mecca]

Matt Ryan was considered to have questionable decision making because of his high INT count and his arm was heavily questioned..

Revisionist history is fun.

[Mecca]

Everyone doubted Ryan last year. People were expecting him to slip. Flacco wasn't even expected to go in the first round. Stop comparing them, you're arguing against yourself.

Joe Flacco was a QB that rose 2 rounds on workouts alone...could you imagine if one of these guys did that people would be losing their minds.

[dirk digler]

Great another Sanchez\Stafford thread.

I am already tired of this shit

[ModSocks]

Matt Ryan was considered to have questionable decision making because of his high INT count and his arm was heavily questioned..

Revisionist history is fun.

This thread is hilarious. Matt Ryan was a HUGE ??? by so many of the talking heads last year, now all of a sudden he was a proven commodity? This is just......jesus people, stop being so afraid of drafting a QB.

[Mecca]

I don't buy it. Especially with Sanchez. He doesn't have the God given ability that Ryan and Flacco have. Ryan and Flacco are both big guys with big arms. Sanchez is closer physically to Thigpen than to Ryan and Flacco.

I don't care if you hate both of them, this is one of the dumbest posts I've ever read on this forum and that covers a ton of ground.

[Pioli Zombie]

Yeah he's only been covering the NFL for 30 years.

What the hell does he know anyway? ;)
Posted via Mobile Device

[Brock]

LOL, somebody needs to go back and read last year's threads about Matt Ryan. He was considered to be a reach at 5 by the same people who are knocking Stafford and Sanchez.

[Mecca]

Charlie Casserly has been involved with the NFL forever it doesn't mean he knows what he's talking about...

[Mecca]

LOL, somebody needs to go back and read last year's threads about Matt Ryan. He was considered to be a reach at 5 by the same people who are knocking Stafford and Sanchez.

My favorite post was when I was told that "Brodie Croyle is as talented as Ryan, he's just being pushed up due to the bad QB class"

[ModSocks]

Yeah he's only been covering the NFL for 30 years.

What the hell does he know anyway? ;)
Posted via Mobile Device

I'd love to see what he thought of each QB class for the last ten years. Just because he covers the NFL doesn't mean that he knows shit about these prospects. He just offers his opinions in order to make a living; nothing more, nothing less.

[Brock]

Yeah he's only been covering the NFL for 30 years.

What the hell does he know anyway? ;)
Posted via Mobile Device

Carl Peterson was an NFL GM for 20 years.

[L.A. Chieffan]

its always more fashionable to predict the worst and say I told you so than predict the prospect will succeed. complete 100% status quo and moron fans suck it up like oreo shakes

[Rigodan]

Yeah he's only been covering the NFL for 30 years.

What the hell does he know anyway? ;)
Posted via Mobile Device

The media is full of hacks. Use your own damn eyes instead of relying on someone elses.

[kcbubb]

Everyone doubted Ryan last year. People were expecting him to slip. Flacco wasn't even expected to go in the first round. Stop comparing them, you're arguing against yourself.

I don't think so. When Ryan was taken #3 to the Falcons, I don't think people were surprised. He did throw some INTs, but he did have a good upside.

Similar if not bigger upside with Flacco, but he had the small school knock against him.

I can understand why people argue for Stafford because he does have a golden arm. The kid can throw it. Stafford has made a bunch of mistakes and not played very well in some big games and he is short but he has shown that he can make some throws that few people in the world can make.

But I don't get the argument for Sanchez. He is not as physically gifted. And he has a short resume on super talented team in a weak defensive conference.

[Mecca]

And hey great the Lions can not take a QB, they can take a nice OT and let him block for no one for the next 10 years.

[chiefforlife]

Mike Mayock was the only one saying Matt Ryan was the real deal. I value his opinion more than most.

[Mecca]

I don't think so. When Ryan was taken #3 to the Falcons, I don't think people were surprised. He did throw some INTs, but he did have a good upside.

Similar if not bigger upside with Flacco, but he had the small school knock against him.

I can understand why people argue for Stafford because he does have a golden arm. The kid can throw it. Stafford has made a bunch of mistakes and not played very well in some big games and he is short but he has shown that he can make some throws that few people in the world can make.

But I don't get the argument for Sanchez. He is not as physically gifted. And he has a short resume on super talented team in a weak defensive conference.

Are you aware that Matt Ryans number 1 qualities were his intangibles? He was thought to have an above average arm which is not glowing...questionable decision making etc.

Some people thought he would develop into a franchise QB because of his intangibles that he brought that made up for what he lacked physically most just completely knocked him saying he's the best of a shitty class.

Are you aware that Mark Sanchez is pretty much graded the same way? And Sanchez has a better arm than Ryan does.

[kcbubb]

its always more fashionable to predict the worst and say I told you so than predict the prospect will succeed. complete 100% status quo and moron fans suck it up like oreo shakes

ok... i predict Aaron Curry will succeed. how's that? keep the insults coming. they make you look more intelligent.

[Deberg_1990]

I would not use that on Sam Bradford.

Whos the last Big 12 QB to make it big in the NFL??

See how this works?

[Mecca]

ok... i predict Aaron Curry will succeed. how's that? keep the insults coming. they make you look more intelligent.

And he'll lead his team to what?

Keith Bulluck sure willed the Titans on and Ernie Sims is really making a difference up in Detroit.

[Rigodan]

I don't think so. When Ryan was taken #3 to the Falcons, I don't think people were surprised. He did throw some INTs, but he did have a good upside.

Similar if not bigger upside with Flacco, but he had the small school knock against him.

I can understand why people argue for Stafford because he does have a golden arm. The kid can throw it. Stafford has made a bunch of mistakes and not played very well in some big games and he is short but he has shown that he can make some throws that few people in the world can make.

But I don't get the argument for Sanchez. He is not as physically gifted. And he has a short resume on super talented team in a weak defensive conference.

If Ryan didn't have any question marks he would have gone #1 to the Dolphins.

There is nothing "bad about Sanchez's arm and he excels in alot of other areas such as footwork, quick release, ability to read defenses, ability to make NFL throws, knowledge of a pro-style offense, and leadership qualities. Why don't you get that argument.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

This is why people go off.

1) You claim that it's important for a QB to be a big, tall Sr. with a big arm
2) Matt Ryan does not have a big arm
3) Josh Freeman is not a Sr.
4) Matt Stafford wipes his ass with Freeman's arm strength. It's considerably better than Flacco's as well.

Wow.... you REALLY need to work on your reading comprehension.

1) Absolutely in an ideal situation.

2) Actually, he has a much better arm than Sanchez.

3) Never said he was, in fact pointed out that he wasn't... please read post again.

4) If you have paid attention, Matt Stafford is the one guy that I would like to draft at #3. Matt Stafford has the strongest arm in the class. It is very comparable to Flacco, and maybe even a touch better. That said, he is still 6'2, which is shorter than Ryan or Flacco.

But, lets be clear. I am not against taking a QB #3. I am against taking Sanchez #3. I would LOVE to see Stafford drop to the Chiefs at #3, I just don't think it will.

But, my opinions may change when the wonderlic scores come out.

[L.A. Chieffan]

each team has to start 3 to 4 LBs. Everyteam has to start 2 DEs, 2 OT, 2 to 4 WRs but how many teams start more than 1 QB?

[Mecca]

If you think Matt Ryan has a great arm really kill yourself.

[chiefforlife]

each team has to start 3 to 4 LBs. Everyteam has to start 2 DEs, 2 OT, 2 to 4 WRs but how many teams start more than 1 QB?

The Chiefs?

[kcbubb]

Are you aware that Matt Ryans number 1 qualities were his intangibles? He was thought to have an above average arm which is not glowing...questionable decision making etc.

Some people thought he would develop into a franchise QB because of his intangibles that he brought that made up for what he lacked physically most just completely knocked him saying he's the best of a shitty class.

Are you aware that Mark Sanchez is pretty much graded the same way? And Sanchez has a better arm than Ryan does.

I don't think so. Sanchez is not Matt Ryan. Have you heard anyone compare Sanchez to Ryan???

Maybe that's why you like him. Maybe he's like that high school girlfriend that you fell in love with and you were telling all your friends what she was like and they were like "that's not her." maybe you have fallen in love with Sanchez and he is not who you really think he is. I am guessing that bc you have glamour shot of Sanchez's face.

[L.A. Chieffan]

The Chiefs?

double wishbone option?

[Mecca]

I don't think so. Sanchez is not Matt Ryan. Have you heard anyone compare Sanchez to Ryan???

Maybe that's why you like him. Maybe he's like that high school girlfriend that you fell in love with and you were telling all your friends what she was like and they were like "that's not her." maybe you have fallen in love with Sanchez and he is not who you really think he is. I am guessing that bc you have glamour shot of Sanchez's face.

Are you really this stupid or do you just play that role here?

[L.A. Chieffan]

If you think Matt Ryan has a great arm really kill yourself.

he looked pretty good against our steel curtain

[Mecca]

he looked pretty good against our steel curtain

He has a nice arm...like Tom Brady does, neither one possess great arms.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Are you aware that Matt Ryans number 1 qualities were his intangibles? He was thought to have an above average arm which is not glowing...questionable decision making etc.

Some people thought he would develop into a franchise QB because of his intangibles that he brought that made up for what he lacked physically most just completely knocked him saying he's the best of a shitty class.

Are you aware that Mark Sanchez is pretty much graded the same way? And Sanchez has a better arm than Ryan does.

Yeah, we saw how great his arm was at the combine...oh it wasn't.

Matt Ryan won award after award in college. The questions on him were ONLY his decision making... the high interception ratio. He had a good arm, was a tall SENIOR prospect that had won the Golden Arm, the Manning and the player of the year in the ACC awards.

Sanchez is a 6'2 Junior prospect that was on one of the best teams in college football.

Matt Ryan was on a much less talented team.

Do you EVER quit rationalizing? Seriously. Do you ever actually try to be honest in your evaluations?

Sanchez isn't the ideal height. He doesn't have a great arm. He doesn't have experience. If you believe in him, great. But, it is in SPITE of all the things he has going against him.

You can talk about his intelligence and his intangibles, but he doesn't compare to Flacco or Ryan. Both were Seniors, both were big and tall guys and BOTH had better arms than Sanchez.

[Pioli Zombie]

The media is full of hacks. Use your own damn eyes instead of relying on someone elses.

I have. I'm not impressed with stafford

Sanchez on the other hand looks like he's got potential


I've never seen a fan site where people are so convinced of their own genius. You must all be very rich for how much people must seek out your vast knowledge.
Posted via Mobile Device

[beach tribe]

I think the word "Expert" is thrown around a little lightly.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

He has a nice arm...like Tom Brady does, neither one possess great arms.

No, but they are both tall QB's who can stand tall in the pocket and survey the field.

And, I think both have better arms than Sanchez.

[Mecca]

Yeah, we saw how great his arm was at the combine...oh it wasn't.

Matt Ryan won award after award in college. The questions on him were ONLY his decision making... the high interception ratio. He had a good arm, was a tall SENIOR prospect that had won the Golden Arm, the Manning and the player of the year in the ACC awards.

Sanchez is a 6'2 Junior prospect that was on one of the best teams in college football.

Matt Ryan was on a much less talented team.

Do you EVER quit rationalizing? Seriously. Do you ever actually try to be honest in your evaluations?

Sanchez isn't the ideal height. He doesn't have a great arm. He doesn't have experience. If you believe in him, great. But, it is in SPITE of all the things he has going against him.

You can talk about his intelligence and his intangibles, but he doesn't compare to Flacco or Ryan. Both were Seniors, both were big and tall guys and BOTH had better arms than Sanchez.

Matt Ryan does not have a better arm than Sanchez you dumbass.

Watch this I can completely rail them too, Matt Ryan sat on the bench for 2 years then couldn't beat out another QB and broke his foot...Joe Flacco transferred out of Pitt to a Division 2 school because he couldn't beat out Tyler Palko.

[kcbubb]

Are you really this stupid or do you just play that role here?

I'm just messing with you bc you have a close up of Sanchez's big brown eyes. what possessed you to put that up??? seriously.... oh my gay.

oh and yes... i'm stupid bc I think Matt Ryan can throw it better than Sanchez.

[Mecca]

And now people wonder why I lose my patience..

You 2 are spouting something that is completely untrue like it's a fact. And now we got bubb here going into his gay fantasy really, stupidity should be a bannable offense.

[jidar]

I don't think so. Sanchez is not Matt Ryan. Have you heard anyone compare Sanchez to Ryan???

Maybe that's why you like him. Maybe he's like that high school girlfriend that you fell in love with and you were telling all your friends what she was like and they were like "that's not her." maybe you have fallen in love with Sanchez and he is not who you really think he is. I am guessing that bc you have glamour shot of Sanchez's face.

hahahaha

[doomy3]

Matt Ryan does not have a better arm than Sanchez you dumbass.

Watch this I can completely rail them too, Matt Ryan sat on the bench for 2 years then couldn't beat out another QB and broke his foot...Joe Flacco transferred out of Pitt to a Division 2 school because he couldn't beat out Tyler Palko.


I think you calling him a dumbass may be a bit much there. Your argument that Sanchez has a better arm is questionable at best. And really, these 2 don't have hardly anything in common, other than "intangibles."

[jidar]

I notice that every person who has voiced some kind of dissent about Sanchez has a red rep bar. lol. Sheesh. You fuckin people...

[SenselessChiefsFan]

If Ryan didn't have any question marks he would have gone #1 to the Dolphins.

There is nothing "bad about Sanchez's arm and he excels in alot of other areas such as footwork, quick release, ability to read defenses, ability to make NFL throws, knowledge of a pro-style offense, and leadership qualities. Why don't you get that argument.

#1) Jake Long had questions too. The Dolphins just preferred the safer pick. Long would have never been worse than a good RT.

#2) Sanchez's ability to read defenses is one of the problems I have with him. He hesitated at times last year when I saw him. It comes from his only having 16 games experience.

#3) The abilty to make NFL throws is directly related to arm strength. You have to get the ball to the receiver before the window closes. The stronger the arm, the quicker the ball gets there.

I was really hoping to see a great arm at the combine. I didn't see it. He is 6'2" with an above average arm and very little experience. I just don't see how he is considered a great prospect.

JMO.

[Mecca]

Strengths: Took his game to a whole new level in 2007…strong leadership abilities…complete control of offense…does not lock on to one receiver…cerebral quarterback…solid arm strength…savvy in the pocket…smooth delivery and throwing motion…prototypical frame…continues to progress…underrated athleticism…

Weaknesses: Limited upside…arm strength is good, but not great…has he maxed out on his abilities?…lacks mobility outside the pocket… struggles to at times throwing on the run...

Overall: Matt Ryan was once just considered as a Day One prospect, but after a senior season in which he performed well enough to have his name batted around in the Heisman Trophy conversation and led thrilling comeback victories on more than one occasion—Ryan has solidified his position as a First Round prospect and in all likelihood a top ten selection in the 2008 NFL Draft. Ryan played the 2007 season in an NFL style West Coast Offense which should help the transition to the NFL level.

Yea Matt Ryan has an awesome arm alright.

[Mecca]

#1) Jake Long had questions too. The Dolphins just preferred the safer pick. Long would have never been worse than a good RT.

#2) Sanchez's ability to read defenses is one of the problems I have with him. He hesitated at times last year when I saw him. It comes from his only having 16 games experience.

#3) The abilty to make NFL throws is directly related to arm strength. You have to get the ball to the receiver before the window closes. The stronger the arm, the quicker the ball gets there.

I was really hoping to see a great arm at the combine. I didn't see it. He is 6'2" with an above average arm and very little experience. I just don't see how he is considered a great prospect.

JMO.

I don't think you could see a pole if it hit you in the face.

[Pioli Zombie]

I notice that every person who has voiced some kind of dissent about Sanchez has a red rep bar. lol. Sheesh. You fuckin people...

That's a reflection on the quarterback nazis, not the red bar recipiants
Posted via Mobile Device

[Mecca]

Look you can argue with me all you want..

But when you start going to the arguments you generally do what do you expect?

You basically call Sanchez a rapist oh about everyday, you go to blatant misinformation saying Matt Ryan has a big arm, really what is the point.

[jidar]

That's a reflection on the quarterback nazis, not the red bar recipiants
Posted via Mobile Device

Oh I realize that.

[CanadaKC]

Mecca is the Norman Gentle of Chiefsplanet...every time you try and take him seriously...

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Matt Ryan does not have a better arm than Sanchez you dumbass.

Watch this I can completely rail them too, Matt Ryan sat on the bench for 2 years then couldn't beat out another QB and broke his foot...Joe Flacco transferred out of Pitt to a Division 2 school because he couldn't beat out Tyler Palko.



Actually, Matt Ryan was a full time starter midway through his Sophomore year. And, not a redshirt sophomore, either. He started both his Junior and Senior campains.

Don't remember the broken foot.

Got me on Flacco. You have one point about him. But, he was still big and strong, with a strong arm and senior experience. Three things Sanchez doesn't have.

[BigCatDaddy]

You don't take a QB for the sake of taking a QB or you end up with a Dilfer and Shuler at the top of the draft.

[Mecca]

Post a logical take that's all I want, if you want to tell me you think Sanchez is shorter than average he is by about an inch..but to act like Matt Ryan has this huge arm is pretty laughable and that's from me a guy who backed Matt Ryan.

[ModSocks]

bubb, the attacks show that you don't really have anything to back up your claims. Ryan wasn't a surprise for the Falcons because everyone knew they needed a QB. It's never a surprise when the #1 rated Qb goes in the top 5 to a team that has no Qb. What's surprising about that?
IF Ryan were in this draft class, all people would talk about is his TD to INT ratio, which was horrid coming out of college. Yeah Sanchez doesn't have a ton of game experience, obviously that's a concern. BUT, look at his footwork, it's very good for a rookie. His feet are always moving and they set when he throws. Footwork can make or break a QB. Bad footwork= bad accuracy. Look at Stafford for example.

The other issue is learning to read D's. That can be taught on the NFL level as long as your smart, which Sanchez reportedly is.

So, if he has all hte qualities of a pro QB, why wouldn't you take him? Do you want another LT or something?

[Coogs]

You don't take a QB for the sake of taking a QB or you end up with a Dilfer and Shuler at the top of the draft.

You might get a Manning, you might get a Leaf. Shoot, IIRC the Colts nearly went with Leaf. Point is they both took a chance with some other pretty darn good football players still there that may have been "safer" picks (hindsight anyway). The Colts hit, and the Chargers missed. And over the past 10 years since that miss, the Chargers have been argueably an overall better franchise than the Chiefs. The Colts... no brainer, they have been better.

[Pioli Zombie]

Mecca are you unraveling?? Ryan was a full time starter at Boston College for 2+ seasons.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Mecca]

And if Mark Sanchez was as poorly talented as some of the posters make him out to be he wouldn't be thought of this highly...

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Look you can argue with me all you want..

But when you start going to the arguments you generally do what do you expect?

You basically call Sanchez a rapist oh about everyday, you go to blatant misinformation saying Matt Ryan has a big arm, really what is the point.

If you will notice, I didn't bring up the rapist argument in this thread.... you did.

Matt Ryan has a better arm than Sancez.

But, lets say they are equal.

Ryan still was a senior, was still taller, and was still MUCH more highly regarded as a college QB winning the golden arm, manning, and player of the year for the ACC awards.

Sanchez got all pac 10 honors.

All you do is rationalize your position.

The funny part is that I don't really care that you like the guy. We all have our opinions.

But you act like anyone that doesn't think Sanchez is going to be great is an idiot. The guy is 6'2" with an above average arm and 16 games starting experience.

There are legitamite questions there. I know YOU can't see them, but then again, LOVE is blind.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

I don't think you could see a pole if it hit you in the face.

I am sure you have seen a lot of pole hitting you in the face.

[Lzen]

No, but they were big tall senior QB's with big arms and a ton of experience.

They were not 6'2" juniors with slightly above average arms and 16 games experience.

The honest truth is that Josh Freeman is more similar to Flacco and Ryan than Sanchez or Stafford is.

A big tall guy with a great arm and experience. He is still a junior, but of the trio of Stafford, Sanchez and Freeman, Freeman is the most similar to those two guys.

The one thing we don't know is intelligence. I would like to know what the three of them scored on the woderlic test.

Big tall senior QBs with a ton of experience. Hmmmm, sounds like you are describing Elvis Grbac. :spock:

[Mecca]

Mecca are you unraveling?? Ryan was a full time starter at Boston College for 2+ seasons.
Posted via Mobile Device

I know for a fact he broke his foot...

Arm strength is only average...Still throws too many interceptions...Accuracy can be streaky...Struggles with the deep ball...A bit of a gunslinger who will play too recklessly at times...Not very mobile and won't beat you with his feet...May have some minor durability issues...Isn't a great athlete...May not have a huge upside.

There that was all written about Matt Ryan, people always like to do revisionist history.

[Deberg_1990]

And if Mark Sanchez was as poorly talented as some of the posters make him out to be he wouldn't be thought of this highly...

We should be able to trade down and snag him in the 3rd round. ROFL

[doomy3]

I am sure you have seen a lot of pole hitting you in the face.

ROFLROFLROFLROFL

[Mecca]

If Matt Ryan was in this draft with his exact same scouting report we'd have the same crew of people talking about how he sucks.

[the Talking Can]

Nothing against Stafford or Sanchez, but neither appears to be the next Matt Ryan or Joe Flacco.


uh..based on what?

this is what true fans are excited about, a statement?

Stafford is every bit the prospect that Ryan was coming out of college, with a better arm to boot...and he's a better prospect than Flacco was, without question....

so how about we try to use a bit of evidence based reasoning...you moron true fan journalists....

[doomy3]

If Matt Ryan was in this draft with his exact same scouting report we'd have the same crew of people talking about how he sucks.

You're probably right, but I would say that he would have more going for him than Sanchez if they were in the same class together. Bigger, 3 year starter, Senior QB. Those are HUGE factors. And I think he has a slightly stronger arm too FWIW.

[Pioli Zombie]

I know for a fact he broke his foot...

Arm strength is only average...Still throws too many interceptions...Accuracy can be streaky...Struggles with the deep ball...A bit of a gunslinger who will play too recklessly at times...Not very mobile and won't beat you with his feet...May have some minor durability issues...Isn't a great athlete...May not have a huge upside.

There that was all written about Matt Ryan, people always like to do revisionist history.

Mecca. "I just know he was out all that time"

Classic

I wonder who it was who was playing for boston college all that time.

A lot more than sanchez played.
Posted via Mobile Device

[doomy3]

uh..based on what?

this is what true fans are excited about, a statement?

Stafford is every bit the prospect that Ryan was coming out of college, with a better arm to boot...and he's a better prospect than Flacco was, without question....

so how about we try to use a bit of evidence based reasoning...you moron true fan journalists....

I agree about Stafford, other than being 6'2". He has great physical tools though, and experience.

[Mecca]

This is a forum that I watched absolutely rail Matt Ryan save a few people now all of the sudden it's the total opposite.......how amusing.

[BigCatDaddy]

And if Mark Sanchez was as poorly talented as some of the posters make him out to be he wouldn't be thought of this highly...

Sounds like comments made about a certain Browns QB that is now about to lose his job to Derek Anderson.

[htismaqe]

You don't take a QB for the sake of taking a QB or you end up with a Dilfer and Shuler at the top of the draft.

Dilfer won a Super Bowl. :)

[Mecca]

Sounds like comments made about a certain Browns QB that is now about to lose his job to Derek Anderson.

I think you have that situation backwards...

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Post a logical take that's all I want, if you want to tell me you think Sanchez is shorter than average he is by about an inch..but to act like Matt Ryan has this huge arm is pretty laughable and that's from me a guy who backed Matt Ryan.

Huge arm? No... but better than Sanchez's.

Now, even the top prospects have questions. Everyone understands that.

But, there has to be something spectacular to justify the risk.

I see NOTHING spectacular about Sanchez.

He is below aver height. He has an above average arm. He has some mobility, but isn't great.

He lacks experience.

The only thing going for him in my opinion was his decision making at times. However, there were times he hesitated last year. It was less in the games that he had additional weeks to prepare for like the home opener, the game after the bye and the Rose Bowl. Which shows me the coaches had more time to prepare him.

The other part of this, was that it is easier to play within yourself when you are on a team that is far superior to the teams you are playing on a week to week basis.

But, you rationalize it all and act like he is going to be Joe Montana and Steve Young all rolled in one.

[the Talking Can]

Dilfer won a Super Bowl. :)

do my eyes deceive me?

[Lzen]

.....stupidity should be a bannable offense.


Ha ha ha ha. If that were the case, this place would look pretty barren.

[Mecca]

So what makes you qualified to talk about him where is your scouting background, see I can play that game too...

And yes you said Matt Ryan has a big arm.

[doomy3]

This is a forum that I watched absolutely rail Matt Ryan save a few people now all of the sudden it's the total opposite.......how amusing.

Yeah, you are right. So if they railed a guy who was a 3 year starter, 6'4" then why wouldn't they rail a guy who is 6'2" and has started 16 games? That's kind of the point here. I agree people railed Ryan, just like you railed Flacco, but the fact is that both of those QBs do have qualities that Sanchez doesn't have.

[Mecca]

Ha ha ha ha. If that were the case, this place would look pretty barren.

I find it really funny that women someone says something dumb you tell them they are dumb they get all upset about it and act like they're actually right in their stupid take.

[Pioli Zombie]

If Matt Ryan was in this draft with his exact same scouting report we'd have the same crew of people talking about how he sucks.

Actually. Just to show I don't hate on qbs. Before the patriots draft last year I saw a 16-0 team that had one huge achillis heal. What if brady got hurt?

Nobody predicted the success of cassel. I was hoping the patriots would go after ryan because you could see in college the kid was a pro waiting to happen

I got slammed there too.

But I saw in ryan what I certainly don't see in stafford and what I don't see as much in sanchez
Posted via Mobile Device

[Mecca]

Yeah, you are right. So if they railed a guy who was a 3 year starter, 6'4" then why wouldn't they rail a guy who is 6'2" and has started 16 games? That's kind of the point here. I agree people railed Ryan, just like you railed Flacco, but the fact is that both of those QBs do have qualities that Sanchez doesn't have.

Yea they railed them for the position they play......I railed Flacco because a combine riser QB is something I would never mess with.

[BigCatDaddy]

Dilfer won a Super Bowl. :)

So did Brad Johnson.

[Lzen]

#1) Jake Long had questions too. The Dolphins just preferred the safer pick. Long would have never been worse than a good RT.

#2) Sanchez's ability to read defenses is one of the problems I have with him. He hesitated at times last year when I saw him. It comes from his only having 16 games experience.

#3) The abilty to make NFL throws is directly related to arm strength. You have to get the ball to the receiver before the window closes. The stronger the arm, the quicker the ball gets there.

I was really hoping to see a great arm at the combine. I didn't see it. He is 6'2" with an above average arm and very little experience. I just don't see how he is considered a great prospect.

JMO.

I hate this argument. Carl Peterson got caught up in that combine BS. For me, it is all about "is the guy a great football player?" Carl Peterson and staff seemed to (for awhile there, anyway) get caught up in 40 times and bench presses rather than what the guy actually did on the field. That is how we ended up with players such as Junior Siavii.

[Mecca]

Look when it comes to arm strength the only question you should be asking yourself is, is his arm good enough if the answer is yes you move on.

Having a rocket launcher arm is not a requirement to be a good or even great QB.

[doomy3]

Yea they railed them for the position they play......I railed Flacco because a combine riser QB is something I would never mess with.

No, they railed him for consistency and accuracy issues which you brought up earlier in this thread. But at least he was 6'4" and had 3 years starting experience. That does actually mean something.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

I know for a fact he broke his foot...

Arm strength is only average...Still throws too many interceptions...Accuracy can be streaky...Struggles with the deep ball...A bit of a gunslinger who will play too recklessly at times...Not very mobile and won't beat you with his feet...May have some minor durability issues...Isn't a great athlete...May not have a huge upside.

There that was all written about Matt Ryan, people always like to do revisionist history.

You are right, he broke his foot. He played most of the season with the broken bone and only missed one game.

[rad]

Dilfer won a Super Bowl. :)

Holy shitballs.

[Mecca]

No, they railed him for consistency and accuracy issues which you brought up earlier in this thread. But at least he was 6'4" and had 3 years starting experience. That does actually mean something.

I defended Ryan because of what I personally saw when I watched him and how he played..the same way I will defend Sanchez because of what I've personally seen.

That's why some of these post are just stupid like "oh you're just a SC fan so you like him" makes me crack up at how absurd it is.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

So what makes you qualified to talk about him where is your scouting background, see I can play that game too...

And yes you said Matt Ryan has a big arm.

Yes, you play a lot of games. I guess that is what you are left with.

The funny part is that Sanchez's lack of ideal height, arm strength or experience is no big deal.

But, you rail and rail on Crabtree's lack of 'speed'.

Just more rationalization, I guess.

[Lzen]

I know for a fact he broke his foot...

Arm strength is only average...Still throws too many interceptions...Accuracy can be streaky...Struggles with the deep ball...A bit of a gunslinger who will play too recklessly at times...Not very mobile and won't beat you with his feet...May have some minor durability issues...Isn't a great athlete...May not have a huge upside.

There that was all written about Matt Ryan, people always like to do revisionist history.

Mecca, you should post links when you post things like this.

[doomy3]

Mecca, you should post links when you post things like this.

Yeah, do you have a link to this, Mecca?

[Mecca]

Yes, you play a lot of games. I guess that is what you are left with.

The funny part is that Sanchez's lack of ideal height, arm strength or experience is no big deal.

But, you rail and rail on Crabtree's lack of 'speed'.

Just more rationalization, I guess.

Because the best course of action for the Chiefs would be to take a WR, if he was Calvin Johnson it would be one thing the simple point is HE'S NOT, HE'S NOT EVEN FUCKING CLOSE.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Yea they railed them for the position they play......I railed Flacco because a combine riser QB is something I would never mess with.

I agree with you there. I typically don't like the guys who just shoot up the draft based on their combine workouts.

I look for the combine to verify what I know about a player. If they don't live up to what I believed they were, then I have to at least reconsider my position.

[Pioli Zombie]

Brad johnson
Trent dilfer
Jeff hostettler
Mark rypien
Doug williams
Earl morrall
Tom brady was 11-19 with 86 yards in his first sb until the final drive

Trent green was not the reason the chiefs didn't win it all in 2003. He was better than the above qbs wasn't he (in 2001 brady wasn't the qb he would become)

Name me all the sb winners with a crappy defense.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Mecca]

Here I'll post a whole bunch they all say the same shit...

http://warroomreport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=61&Itemid=1

http://www.mynfldraft.com/NFL-Draft-Profiles/2008/Matt-Ryan

And by the way Matt Ryan did redshirt his freshman season.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Because the best course of action for the Chiefs would be to take a WR, if he was Calvin Johnson it would be one thing the simple point is HE'S NOT, HE'S NOT EVEN ****ING CLOSE.

No, but he is close to Larry Fitzgerald.

Your lack of intellectual honesty is appauling. But, I guess the only way you can justify Sanchez is not only rationalizing away his weaknesses, but the other players talent.

[Pioli Zombie]

Here I'll post a whole bunch they all say the same shit...

http://warroomreport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=61&Itemid=1

http://www.mynfldraft.com/NFL-Draft-Profiles/2008/Matt-Ryan

And by the way Matt Ryan did redshirt his freshman season.

The point is Ryan played a lot more than sanchez did
Posted via Mobile Device

[ChiefsCountry]

No, but he is close to Larry Fitzgerald.


Not even close to Larry Fitzgerald at all.

[kcbubb]

Yeah, you are right. So if they railed a guy who was a 3 year starter, 6'4" then why wouldn't they rail a guy who is 6'2" and has started 16 games? That's kind of the point here. I agree people railed Ryan, just like you railed Flacco, but the fact is that both of those QBs do have qualities that Sanchez doesn't have.

:clap:

Sanchez is NOT the prospect that Ryan was.

[Mecca]

No, but he is close to Larry Fitzgerald.

Your lack of intellectual honesty is appauling. But, I guess the only way you can justify Sanchez is not only rationalizing away his weaknesses, but the other players talent.

Crabtree reminds me of Peter Warrick at this point......the Fitzgerald comparisons went out the window when he became smaller than advertised.

I don't get where you just can completely rail Sanchez on the littlest thing and overlook everything about Crabtree, no player has had more red flags over the past month than him.

[Mecca]

Not even close to Larry Fitzgerald at all.

People need to let that shit go.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

No, but he is close to Larry Fitzgerald.

Your lack of intellectual honesty is appauling. But, I guess the only way you can justify Sanchez is not only rationalizing away his weaknesses, but the other players talent.

Yeah, he's Larry Fitzgerald, who is two inches taller, with much bigger hands, who came from a pro system, and played WR his entire life.

Fitz also ran a 4.49 at his pro day.

So, other than being nothing like Fitzgerald, other than speed questions, he's exactly like Fitzgerald.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Here I'll post a whole bunch they all say the same shit...

http://warroomreport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=61&Itemid=1

http://www.mynfldraft.com/NFL-Draft-Profiles/2008/Matt-Ryan

And by the way Matt Ryan did redshirt his freshman season.

Yeah, I blew it on that one. He was a fifth year senior. Of course, it goes back to the experience thing.

[htismaqe]

So did Brad Johnson.

Mark Rypien did too.

I hate that guy.

[Mecca]

Yeah, he's Larry Fitzgerald, who is two inches taller, with much bigger hands, who came from a pro system, and played WR his entire life.

Fitz also ran a 4.49 at his pro day.

So, other than being nothing like Fitzgerald, other than speed questions, he's exactly like Fitzgerald.

He's somehow right though, just like Matt Ryan and his big arm.

[ChiefsCountry]

Yeah, he's Larry Fitzgerald, who is two inches taller, with much bigger hands, who came from a pro system, and played WR his entire life.

Fitz also ran a 4.49 at his pro day.

So, other than being nothing like Fitzgerald, other than speed questions, he's exactly like Fitzgerald.

And Fitzgerald put up similar stats with Rod Freaking Rutherford as his QB. A lefty option scrambler.

[Mecca]

I don't see how anyone could ever watch Crabtree and Fitzgerald at any points in their careers and assess that one is like the other.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Crabtree reminds me of Peter Warrick at this point......the Fitzgerald comparisons went out the window when he became smaller than advertised.

I don't get where you just can completely rail Sanchez on the littlest thing and overlook everything about Crabtree, no player has had more red flags over the past month than him.

I am not overlooking them. I said up front that if he ran slower than a 4.55 at the combine, I would not be in favor of drafting him.

The thing that separates Crabtree is his body control and soft hands. That is what makes great WR's in the NFL.

Now, with his foot being broken, and him probably not going to run and needing surgery, I have backed off selecting him at #3.

[Lzen]

Dilfer won a Super Bowl. :)

Holy moly! A parker sighting.

[Lzen]

I find it really funny that women someone says something dumb you tell them they are dumb they get all upset about it and act like they're actually right in their stupid take.

'Women'? Did you mean to type 'when'?

Well, I think we should all keep in mind that just because someone has a different opinion or a different point of view, we should try to refrain from calling them dumb. I know I have been guilty of that lately and I regret it. This place has gotten bad about that. I just think we should respect others' views even if we fell they are retarded. ;)

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

What the Patriots do or don't do with Cassel could define if not the top of the draft, but the draft in general.

Let's return to the Lions, who own the first pick in April's draft.

Today, there is no way the Lions will use that choice on either Georgia's Matt Stafford or USC's Mark Sanchez, the top-rated quarterbacks in the draft. Now, they might consider using it on Cassel, but they won't do that, either, even though he is preferred over the unknown rookies. Instead, the Lions will probably choose between two offensive tackles, Baylor's Jason Smith or Virginia's Eugene Monroe. It's the Jake Long syndrome all over again. Alabama's Andre Smith is out of the mix because his college coaches have been faint with their praise of their road-grader tackle who left here because he didn't feel like he was in the proper shape to compete.



Thank you for posting the Greatest Win/Win Scenario I've seen in days!

Turning your negativity right back on 'ya REP!

[Mecca]

'Women'? Did you mean to type 'when'?

Well, I think we should all keep in mind that just because someone has a different opinion or a different point of view, we should try to refrain from calling them dumb. I know I have been guilty of that lately and I regret it. This place has gotten bad about that. I just think we should respect others' views even if we fell they are retarded. ;)

That was a hell of a typo.....

Some people don't bother me it's just when things get so far out there.

[Lzen]

Look when it comes to arm strength the only question you should be asking yourself is, is his arm good enough if the answer is yes you move on.

Having a rocket launcher arm is not a requirement to be a good or even great QB.

I defended Ryan because of what I personally saw when I watched him and how he played..the same way I will defend Sanchez because of what I've personally seen.

That's why some of these post are just stupid like "oh you're just a SC fan so you like him" makes me crack up at how absurd it is.

C'mon, Mecca. Are you trying to tell us that your USC fandom doesn't have some impact on your judgement of USC players? Not even just a little bit?

FTR, I like Sanchez.

[Lzen]

That was a hell of a typo.....

Some people don't bother me it's just when things get so far out there.

ROFL Yeah, I thought so. Just wondering if you were trying to express your feelings on women and their intelligence. :eek:

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Yeah, he's Larry Fitzgerald, who is two inches taller, with much bigger hands, who came from a pro system, and played WR his entire life.

Fitz also ran a 4.49 at his pro day.

So, other than being nothing like Fitzgerald, other than speed questions, he's exactly like Fitzgerald.

If you watch the two play the game, they both have good vision. They both have great hands. They both have unbelievable Body Control. They are both physical guys. The both block out defenders. They both get the ball at the highest point.

His actual playing style is closer to Larry Fitzgerald than any other player coming out of the draft... IMO.

[Lzen]

Yes, you play a lot of games. I guess that is what you are left with.

The funny part is that Sanchez's lack of ideal height, arm strength or experience is no big deal.

But, you rail and rail on Crabtree's lack of 'speed'.

Just more rationalization, I guess.

I believe speed is important, but not the be all end all. I think Crabtree will be a good NFL receiver. But I don't think he is worthy of the #3 overall pick. He will probably be a 1st rounder. However, I would not be shocked if he fell to the 2nd round.

[BigCatDaddy]

That was a hell of a typo.....

Some people don't bother me it's just when things get so far out there.

The problem is you think doing anything besides drafting Mark "The Messiah" Sanchez is way out there! Except you did say you though Jenkins was deserving on of that spot if you don't go QB. Nice call on the 4.55 corner/ safety.

[ChiefsCountry]

C'mon, Mecca. Are you trying to tell us that your USC fandom doesn't have some impact on your judgement of USC players? Not even just a little bit?

FTR, I like Sanchez.

Mecca has always been really honest about USC players when it comes to the draft. I'll vouche for him on that.

[Mecca]

C'mon, Mecca. Are you trying to tell us that your USC fandom doesn't have some impact on your judgement of USC players? Not even just a little bit?

FTR, I like Sanchez.

Give me a USC player that I pimped in the entire time I've been here.

[htismaqe]

Give me a USC player that I pimped in the entire time I've been here.

Antonio Cromartie FTW

;)

[Lzen]

The point is Ryan played a lot more than sanchez did
Posted via Mobile Device

Lack of experience is an issue for Sanchez. Anyone who does not at least acknowledge that is not being fair, IMO. Still, from the few games and highlights that I have seen of him, I think he is the real deal. I would not be unhappy with spending the #3 pick on him.

[ChiefsCountry]

Give me a USC player that I pimped in the entire time I've been here.

Ko Simpson. :D

(Only smart people will figure that one out)

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Crabtree reminds me of Peter Warrick at this point......the Fitzgerald comparisons went out the window when he became smaller than advertised.

I don't get where you just can completely rail Sanchez on the littlest thing and overlook everything about Crabtree, no player has had more red flags over the past month than him.

I have moved on to Curry for the #3 pick. An ILB at #3 isn't my favorite thing... but it is the best alternative I see.

[Mecca]

You know Curry isn't an ILB right?

[BigCatDaddy]

I believe speed is important, but not the be all end all. I think Crabtree will be a good NFL receiver. But I don't think he is worthy of the #3 overall pick. He will probably be a 1st rounder. However, I would not be shocked if he fell to the 2nd round.

Crabtree in the 2nd? You're retarded, yes?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Ko Simpson. :D

(Only smart people will figure that one out)

LMAO

Simpson and Youboty, my first draft-related meltdown.

[Mecca]

Crabtree in the 2nd? You're retarded, yes?

He won't but the truth is there isn't a whole lot separating him and Hakeem Nicks who probably will go in the 2nd round.

[Frosty]

Ko Simpson. :D

(Only smart people will figure that one out)

Okay, I get the S. Carolina bit, but not the Cromartie part above.

[Rigodan]

Okay some people have questions about how much Sanchez has played. Last year people had questions about Matt Ryans decision making ability but that has worked out pretty well so far. The point is, if you want to you can find flaws in every quarterback prospect but you have to look at what that quarterback does well too. Sanchez has better fundamentals and footwork of most 3 year starters. He played in a pro-style and he has geat intangibles. He comes from the same school that put out Palmer Lineart and Cassel. By all accounts he is a good kid and he has his head on his shoulders. You can't ignore all of these things that will help him translate to the NFL just because he is 6'2 or he's only played 16 games even though he looks like he's played many more.

If you want a franchise qb you're going to have to take the leap at some point with someone who isn't perfect. That's just the way it is. So far it seems to me that the biggest reason not to take Sanchez is because you are missing a pair of testicles.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

You know Curry isn't an ILB right?

He has actually played all three linebacker positions at times. In a 3-4, due to his size, he projects best at ILB.

If he has better pass rush moves than we expect, he may go outside... but even then he is smallish.

He plays sideline to sideline, breaks down the runner well and sheds blocks. He is a bigger faster Ray Lewis.

[Lzen]

Give me a USC player that I pimped in the entire time I've been here.

Not exactly what I was trying to say.

Not even a little bit? Little, teeny tiny bit? Nothing?

[Brock]

He is a bigger faster Ray Lewis.

Yeah. Sure he is.ROFL

[BigCatDaddy]

He won't but the truth is there isn't a whole lot separating him and Hakeem Nicks who probably will go in the 2nd round.

Right because Crabtree came from that damm same spread offense that makes crap receivers like Wes Welker look better then they really are!

[Lzen]

Crabtree in the 2nd? You're retarded, yes?

Thanks for that wonderfully well written and logically sound rebuttal. :thumb:


FTR, I did not say the Chiefs would draft him.

[Lzen]

Okay some people have questions about how much Sanchez has played. Last year people had questions about Matt Ryans decision making ability but that has worked out pretty well so far. The point is, if you want to you can find flaws in every quarterback prospect but you have to look at what that quarterback does well too. Sanchez has better fundamentals and footwork of most 3 year starters. He played in a pro-style and he has geat intangibles. He comes from the same school that put out Palmer Lineart and Cassel. By all accounts he is a good kid and he has his head on his shoulders. You can't ignore all of these things that will help him translate to the NFL just because he is 6'2 or he's only played 16 games even though he looks like he's played many more.

If you want a franchise qb you're going to have to take the leap at some point with someone who isn't perfect. That's just the way it is. So far it seems to me that the biggest reason not to take Sanchez is because you are missing a pair of testicles.

Excellent. :clap:

[BigCatDaddy]

Yeah. Sure he is.ROFL

Maybe bigger then a young Ray. Today Ray looks like Greg Lloyd out there.

[htismaqe]

You know Curry isn't an ILB right?

He will be in a 3-4.

[Mecca]

Right because Crabtree came from that damm same spread offense that makes crap receivers like Wes Welker look better then they really are!

Start comparing them what separates them by a huge degree?

[BigCatDaddy]

Thanks for that wonderfully well written and logically sound rebuttal. :thumb:


FTR, I did not say the Chiefs would draft him.

It didn't deserve a well written logical rebuttal.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Okay some people have questions about how much Sanchez has played. Last year people had questions about Matt Ryans decision making ability but that has worked out pretty well so far. The point is, if you want to you can find flaws in every quarterback prospect but you have to look at what that quarterback does well too. Sanchez has better fundamentals and footwork of most 3 year starters. He played in a pro-style and he has geat intangibles. He comes from the same school that put out Palmer Lineart and Cassel. By all accounts he is a good kid and he has his head on his shoulders. You can't ignore all of these things that will help him translate to the NFL just because he is 6'2 or he's only played 16 games even though he looks like he's played many more.

If you want a franchise qb you're going to have to take the leap at some point with someone who isn't perfect. That's just the way it is. So far it seems to me that the biggest reason not to take Sanchez is because you are missing a pair of testicles.

No prospect is perfect. You are right there. But, Sanchez is also below average height and has a better than average arm.

It isn't like the guy is Peyton Manning sitting there with just a lack of esperience.

Matt Stafford is also an underclassman, which is not good in my book. He is also only 6'2". However, he played against better teams in the SEC. He has a stronger arm. He has much more experience. And, he played behind a worse offensive line AND the Georgia defense was much worse.

Stafford HAD to force throws and try to make plays to win the game. Sanchez had a better defense supporting him. He had a better offensive line. And, he played lesser competetition for the most part.

[Rigodan]

Right because Crabtree came from that damm same spread offense that makes crap receivers like Wes Welker look better then they really are!

That's like the Tom Brady argument. You can draft a qb in the sixth round if you want but the odds of it working out aren't as good. Same for spread recievers, you can draft them but they have more to overcome to be successful in a pro offense so the odds aren't as good. It can still happen but the odds of such are diminished.

[htismaqe]

Okay, I get the S. Carolina bit, but not the Cromartie part above.

I was picking on him, because he hasn't really ever openly pimped a USC player. He was ga-ga over Antonio Cromartie though, good God, get them a room.

By the way, I guess I can take this opportunity to say Mecca wasn't completely right about Cromartie. Damn if that guy isn't hurt all the time.

[Mecca]

He will be in a 3-4.

Well ok but that speaks to his lack of pass rush skills.

[rad]

I've sat back and watched these battles for a few weeks now. Since I don't watch very much college ball, I rely on these threads and posted Youtube "highlight" videos to formulate my opinion, albeit relatively uninformed.

I don't think I like Sanchez. No explanation, just my gut.

[BigCatDaddy]

Start comparing them what separates them by a huge degree?

You mean they didn't come up running pro-style routes like Fitzgerald did? That seems to be one of the haters knock on Crabtree. Crabtree is bigger, probably has better hands if you are comparing the two. I don't know about straight ahead speed but Welker is probably more shifty, but much smaller.

[Lzen]

It didn't deserve a well written logical rebuttal.

Now who is retarded? You don't think there is even a remote possibility that Crabtree would drop to the second? I said he is probably a 1st rounder. I think he will go in the top 20. But I said I would not be shocked if he dropped to the second round. Perhaps you need to work on your reading comprehension, yes?

[htismaqe]

No prospect is perfect. You are right there. But, Sanchez is also below average height and has a better than average arm.

It isn't like the guy is Peyton Manning sitting there with just a lack of esperience.

Matt Stafford is also an underclassman, which is not good in my book. He is also only 6'2". However, he played against better teams in the SEC. He has a stronger arm. He has much more experience. And, he played behind a worse offensive line AND the Georgia defense was much worse.

Stafford HAD to force throws and try to make plays to win the game. Sanchez had a better defense supporting him. He had a better offensive line. And, he played lesser competetition for the most part.

The only thing about Stafford is you have to wonder if he's in the "all arm, no brain" category sometimes. In alot of ways, he reminds me of Cutler and I just don't see Cutler as the kind of guy to win it all. Sure, he can be a playoff QB year in and year out, but can he be THE guy? I sure as hell don't see it.

[htismaqe]

Well ok but that speaks to his lack of pass rush skills.

I think it speaks more to instincts and range than it does his lack of rush skills.

In other words, I think he's IDEALLY-SUITED to be a 3-4 ILB rather than I think he'd have to play there because he can't rush the passer.

[BigCatDaddy]

That's like the Tom Brady argument. You can draft a qb in the sixth round if you want but the odds of it working out aren't as good. Same for spread recievers, you can draft them but they have more to overcome to be successful in a pro offense so the odds aren't as good. It can still happen but the odds of such are diminished.


More teams are just now runnnig the spread. There is no way you can make an arugement against spread WR's.

[Frosty]

I was picking on him, because he hasn't really ever openly pimped a USC player. He was ga-ga over Antonio Cromartie though, good God, get them a room.

I am definitely aware of the Cromartie love. I just didn't see the USC connection. Got it now.

[Rigodan]

More teams are just now runnnig the spread. There is no way you can make an arugement against spread WR's.

They have to learn how to run routes that pro system guys already have practiced for 4 years. How does that not put spread guys at a disadvantage?

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Yeah. Sure he is.ROFL

Both are leaders on the field. Both are sideline to sideline tackling machines.

Curry ran a 4.56 at the combine. Ray Lewis's fastest time prior to the draft was 4.58.

When Ray Lewis came out of college, he was 242. Curry is 246.

Curry is 6'2, Ray Lewis is 6'1.

Ray Lewis has been defensive player of the year twice. Not bad for a mere linebacker.

At least I think it was twice.... someone correct me if I am wrong.

[Mecca]

You mean they didn't come up running pro-style routes like Fitzgerald did? That seems to be one of the haters knock on Crabtree. Crabtree is bigger, probably has better hands if you are comparing the two. I don't know about straight ahead speed but Welker is probably more shifty, but much smaller.

Nicks and Crabtree are basically the same size...

[BigCatDaddy]

They have to learn how to run routes that pro system guys already have practiced for 4 years. How does that not put spread guys at a disadvantage?

The routes are that complicated, a freaking crossing patter, slant, go, deep out, blah blah. It's not rocket science my man.

[kcbubb]

it's not "far out" to think Sanchez is not worth the #3 pick. most fans and most analysts don't think he is.

is that your strategy? to act like people are crazy for thinking something very logical to make them question their own point of view.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

The only thing about Stafford is you have to wonder if he's in the "all arm, no brain" category sometimes. In alot of ways, he reminds me of Cutler and I just don't see Cutler as the kind of guy to win it all. Sure, he can be a playoff QB year in and year out, but can he be THE guy? I sure as hell don't see it.


To me, Cutler was the best of his class when he came out. I would love to have that kid. John Elway never struck me as the brightest bulb in the chandlier either.

The best QB ever was 6'2" and didn't have a great arm. But, I just don't see Mecca's love child... I mean Sanchez... as the next Joe Montana.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Nicks and Crabtree are basically the same size...

But Nicks isn't as fluid as Crabtree is. His hips aren't as good, his hands aren't as good and his body control isn't near what Crabtree has to offer.

[BigCatDaddy]

Nicks and Crabtree are basically the same size...

We are on a different page. I thought you wanted a Welker/Crabtree comparison.

[ModSocks]

it's not "far out" to think Sanchez is not worth the #3 pick. most fans and most analysts don't think he is.

is that your strategy? to act like people are crazy for thinking something very logical to make them question their own point of view.

It's also not far out to think that he could be taken at #3. So what's your answer at QB? enlighten me?

[Mecca]

But Nicks isn't as fluid as Crabtree is. His hips aren't as good, his hands aren't as good and his body control isn't near what Crabtree has to offer.

Actually I think his hands are just as good...he runs better routes, he's from a pro style offense oh and he understands how to use a route to get open he's an awesome deep threat without having top end speed that speaks to a guy who understands how to get open downfield.

[doomy3]

Yeah, he's Larry Fitzgerald, who is two inches taller, with much bigger hands, who came from a pro system, and played WR his entire life.

Fitz also ran a 4.49 at his pro day.

So, other than being nothing like Fitzgerald, other than speed questions, he's exactly like Fitzgerald.

Yeah, Sanchez is Matt Ryan, who is two inches taller, and started at QB in a Pro System for 2.5 years.

So, other than being nothing like Ryan, other than "intangibles", he's exactly like Ryan.

[doomy3]

To me, Cutler was the best of his class when he came out. I would love to have that kid. John Elway never struck me as the brightest bulb in the chandlier either.

The best QB ever was 6'2" and didn't have a great arm. But, I just don't see Mecca's love child... I mean Sanchez... as the next Joe Montana.

I think Stafford is Cutler.

[htismaqe]

To me, Cutler was the best of his class when he came out. I would love to have that kid. John Elway never struck me as the brightest bulb in the chandlier either.

The best QB ever was 6'2" and didn't have a great arm. But, I just don't see Mecca's love child... I mean Sanchez... as the next Joe Montana.

John Elway had moxy in spades. I don't see that in Cutler, didn't when he was drafted and still don't. I see Cutler as more like Drew Bledsoe. Not saying he's chopped liver, he's a VERY good QB, but he just doesn't strike me as a guy that's going to win a couple of championships.

[Reerun_KC]

Yeah, Sanchez is Matt Ryan, who is two inches taller, and started at QB in a Pro System for 2.5 years.

So, other than being nothing like Ryan, other than "intangibles", he's exactly like Ryan.

QFT,

I compare Ryan to Sanchez and Sanchez to Ryan... I would be thrilled with Sanchez and hope that we have to make a choice between Stafford and Sanchez on draft day...

But good comparison...

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Yeah, Sanchez is Matt Ryan, who is two inches taller, and started at QB in a Pro System for 2.5 years.

So, other than being nothing like Ryan, other than "intangibles", he's exactly like Ryan.

When did I ever compare those two prospects?

[htismaqe]

I think Stafford is Cutler.

And that's what worries me about taking him at #3. It's a weird position to be in, too be sure.

[BigCatDaddy]

I think Stafford is Cutler.

That's a solid comparison.

[doomy3]

When did I ever compare those two prospects?

I don't think you did. However, Mecca has spent part of this thread comparing them, so I was just using your post to compare.

[Reerun_KC]

I think Stafford is Cutler.

Let me guess, you heard Todd McShay say that on ESPN, because they were just talking TM with MK and that is exactly what TM said...

[Mecca]

I said he had similar intangible qualities......I didn't sit here and say he was as tall or some stupid shit like that.

[Reerun_KC]

That's a solid comparison.

That is why guys like McShay get paid to make those comparisons...

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I don't think you did. However, Mecca has spent part of this thread comparing them, so I was just using your post to compare.

Don't attribute something to me I didn't say.

[doomy3]

Let me guess, you heard Todd McShay say that on ESPN, because they were just talking TM with MK and that is exactly what TM said...

I'm not watching TV as I am at work, but that's interesting. I see them the same due to physical talent, but a lot of unknowns as far as leadership. FWIW, I FAR prefer him to Sanchez.

[doomy3]

Don't attribute something to me I didn't say.

I didn't attribute anything to you. I think that anyone who was reading this thread knew what I was talking about.

[Reerun_KC]

I'm not watching TV as I am at work, but that's interesting. I see them the same due to physical talent, but a lot of unknowns as far as leadership. FWIW, I FAR prefer him to Sanchez.

Was wondering, I just thought it was ironic that i heard that no less than 10 minutes ago...

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I didn't attribute anything to you. I think that anyone who was reading this thread knew what I was talking about.

Yes, because ChiefsPlanet history is filled with people quoting one poster when really they are responding to another.

[Mecca]

Was wondering, I just thought it was ironic that i heard that no less than 10 minutes ago...

Well shit, Todd McShay is a doofus so uh .

[DaneMcCloud]

If Ryan didn't have any question marks he would have gone #1 to the Dolphins.


Bullshit. Utter, useless BULLSHIT.

JFC.

The Miami Dolphins were in WIN NOW mode because Wayne Huizenga had a deal with Steven Ross to sell him half the team. Coming off of an embarrassing 1-15, the Wayner had to do something to increase the value of the team or risk losing millions.

He hired Parcells, who quickly began assembling his old cronies to make a run at "respectability". The Dolphins won 11 games (though only TWO were against teams with a winning record) and BAM! Stephen Ross now owns the Dolphins and paid a substatianly higher price.

See how this works?

It had NOTHING to do with Matt Ryan.

[DaneMcCloud]

Sanchez is a 6'2 Junior prospect that was on one of the best teams in college football.

Defensively, yes. There could be 8-10 USC defensive players on that team selected in the draft.

Offensively, no. There's no Steve Smith, no Reggie Bush, no Mike Williams and the offensive line certainly leaves something to be desired.

[BigCatDaddy]

Bullshit. Utter, useless BULLSHIT.

JFC.

The Miami Dolphins were in WIN NOW mode because Wayne Huizenga had a deal with Steven Ross to sell him half the team. Coming off of an embarrassing 1-15, the Wayner had to do something to increase the value of the team or risk losing millions.

He hired Parcells, who quickly began assembling his old cronies to make a run at "respectability". The Dolphins won 11 games (though only TWO were against teams with a winning record) and BAM! Stephen Ross now owns the Dolphins and paid a substatianly higher price.

See how this works?

It had NOTHING to do with Matt Ryan.


So Parcells knew Favre would be traded to the Jets, who would then release Pennington, who they would then pick up and he would play his ass off?

[kcbubb]

Mecca,

I'm extremely tired of the "they don't want to take a QB because their scared" rant. it's so tiring. but I'm sure that is your goal.

many of us just don't think Sanchez has enough upside. He doesn't have a big arm. He is short. And he hasn't played enough. why should he be drafted higher than Leinart??? Sanchez sounds like Thigpen to me. Why not just keep Thigpen? Sanchez has been inaccurate outside the numbers and on difficult throws. How is that a significant upgrade over Thigpen, who's also short and inaccurate at times?

why not take Rhett Bomar or Nate Davis later? especially since you want to sit Sanchez anyway. Bomar and Davis both have bigger arms than Sanchez. They are also about the same size as Sanchez.

[CanadaKC]

Both CBS sportsline mocks have us taking Curry...and both say Sanchez doesn't go until #17 to the Jets. Experts or no experts...Curry is the better safer pick.

[DaneMcCloud]

You might get a Manning, you might get a Leaf. Shoot, IIRC the Colts nearly went with Leaf.

You recall incorrectly.

Bill Polian at NO time said there was ANY controversy surrounding their decision.

I mean, give me a fucking break. Peyton Manning's pedigree was second to none entering the NFL draft. No one with a freaking brain was going to choose Leaf number one overall, with his poor off-field behavior and questionable experience.

If Bobby Beathard's stupid old ass wouldn't have selected Leaf, he would have tumbled down the draft board. Psychologist after psychologist predicted he'd be a bust.

And they were right.

[DaneMcCloud]

So Parcells knew Favre would be traded to the Jets, who would then release Pennington, who they would then pick up and he would play his ass off?

ROFL

If you're staking the claim that Parcells wouldn't have acquired a veteran QB at some point, you're mistaken.

[DaneMcCloud]

why not take Rhett Bomar or Nate Davis later? especially since you want to sit Sanchez anyway. Bomar and Davis both have bigger arms than Sanchez. They are also about the same size as Sanchez.

Rhett Bomar sucks. JFC. People should be banned for even mentioning this shit without researching or knowing a little about the player they're suggesting.

Why would you want a guy from the spread at Oklahoma, then at SHSU, who's completion percentage averaged 55%? Because he can throw the ball really far?

Davis? ROFL

Yeah, you know that Troy Aikman had a weak arm. :rolleyes:

[BigCatDaddy]

Mecca,

I'm extremely tired of the "they don't want to take a QB because their scared" rant. it's so tiring. but I'm sure that is your goal.

many of us just don't think Sanchez has enough upside. He doesn't have a big arm. He is short. And he hasn't played enough. why should he be drafted higher than Leinart??? Sanchez sounds like Thigpen to me. Why not just keep Thigpen? Sanchez has been inaccurate outside the numbers and on difficult throws. How is that a significant upgrade over Thigpen, who's also short and inaccurate at times?

why not take Rhett Bomar or Nate Davis later? especially since you want to sit Sanchez anyway. Bomar and Davis both have bigger arms than Sanchez. They are also about the same size as Sanchez.


Dude you a scarity cat! Scarity cat, scarity cat :)

[BigCatDaddy]

ROFL

If you're staking the claim that Parcells wouldn't have acquired a veteran QB at some point, you're mistaken.

Interesting theory, I just don't know if I'm sold that why they took Long over Ryan.

[Christofire]

It'd be interesting if ChiefsPlanet added a "prediction rep" score for each person. Then, when someone posted a poll to see who knows what the hell they are talking about, it would automatically adjust your prediction rep based on if you were right or not. Obviously, it'd have to be a poll where a concrete outcome could be determined. Example: it can't be "Sanchez will suck" or "Sanchez will not suck" because there's too many gray areas. However, "Sanchez will throw more touchdowns than intereceptions in his first two seasons" or "Sanchez will not win more than 8 games in his first two seasons" would work. If you love Sanchez, then you can back it up by putting your prediction rep on the line. You get docked for being wrong, so if you're the type that makes a bunch of outrageous predictions in the hopes of getting one right occasionally, then we'll know it based on your -2,000 prediction rep. It'd also require you to make sure you take every circumstance into account before you voted. If you say unequivocally that Stafford or Sanchez will be a great NFL QB, but they wind up crashing and burning in a place with a crappy organization like Detroit (a la Joey Harrington) ... well, that's just too damn bad for you. You'll just have to go back and create a new poll to redeem yourself when Stafford or Sanchez eventually goes to another organization for a new start.

The other benefit would be this: You may have loads of neg rep because people think you're an a-hole, but if you have stellar prediction rep ... well, they just have to suck it, now don't they?

Just a thought.

[doomy3]

You recall incorrectly.

Bill Polian at NO time said there was ANY controversy surrounding their decision.

I mean, give me a ****ing break. Peyton Manning's pedigree was second to none entering the NFL draft. No one with a freaking brain was going to choose Leaf number one overall, with his poor off-field behavior and questionable experience.

If Bobby Beathard's stupid old ass wouldn't have selected Leaf, he would have tumbled down the draft board. Psychologist after psychologist predicted he'd be a bust.

And they were right.

Yeah, when Leaf didn't even show up for his interview with the Colts, I think that pretty much sealed the deal for him. What an idiot.

[BigCatDaddy]

Rhett Bomar sucks. JFC. People should be banned for even mentioning this shit without researching or knowing a little about the player they're suggesting.

Why would you want a guy from the spread at Oklahoma, then at SHSU, who's completion percentage averaged 55%? Because he can throw the ball really far?

Davis? ROFL

Yeah, you know that Troy Aikman had a weak arm. :rolleyes:

He could have gotten better I suppose, but God he was horrible at OU.

[DaneMcCloud]

Interesting theory, I just don't know if I'm sold that why they took Long over Ryan.

If the owner says to you "Win now so that I can get maximum value for my football team at the end of the season", drafting a QB with the #1 overall pick isn't prudent.

[DaneMcCloud]

He could have gotten better I suppose, but God he was horrible at OU.

His completion percentage actually declined at SHSU.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

I think Stafford is Cutler.

I have refrained from saying that because I know some in here don't like Cutler... but I think they are foolish.

Stafford is a big strong armed kid that can thread the needle.

I understand the questions about Sanchez... but Stafford is about as good of a prospect as you can get other than Peyton Manning.

[SAUTO]

If the owner says to you "Win now so that I can get maximum value for my football team at the end of the season", drafting a QB with the #1 overall pick isn't prudent.

but having a "franchise qb" wouldnt have made that team worth more in the long run?

[Reerun_KC]

but having a "franchise qb" wouldnt have made that team worth more in the long run?

Not according to true fans....

[SAUTO]

Not according to true fans....

stupid thing to say. we're talking about the business side

[DaneMcCloud]

But, you rail and rail on Crabtree's lack of 'speed'.

Just more rationalization, I guess.

Are you implying that Crabtree IS capable of running a 4.6 or under? Are you stating that Crabtree IS really 6'3, not 6'1, as he was measured at the Combine?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

To me, Cutler was the best of his class when he came out. I would love to have that kid. John Elway never struck me as the brightest bulb in the chandlier either.

The best QB ever was 6'2" and didn't have a great arm. But, I just don't see Mecca's love child... I mean Sanchez... as the next Joe Montana.

:spock:Good lord...

Mecca,

I'm extremely tired of the "they don't want to take a QB because their scared" rant. it's so tiring. but I'm sure that is your goal.

many of us just don't think Sanchez has enough upside. He doesn't have a big arm. He is short. And he hasn't played enough. why should he be drafted higher than Leinart??? Sanchez sounds like Thigpen to me. Why not just keep Thigpen? Sanchez has been inaccurate outside the numbers and on difficult throws. How is that a significant upgrade over Thigpen, who's also short and inaccurate at times?

why not take Rhett Bomar or Nate Davis later? especially since you want to sit Sanchez anyway. Bomar and Davis both have bigger arms than Sanchez. They are also about the same size as Sanchez.
:spock:Good lord...

Both CBS sportsline mocks have us taking Curry...and both say Sanchez doesn't go until #17 to the Jets. Experts or no experts...Curry is the better safer pick.

:doh!:
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn182/lightbringerrr/GHOSTOFTODD.gif

[Reerun_KC]

stupid thing to say. we're talking about the business side

Not considering how fans effect your business side....

[DaneMcCloud]

but having a "franchise qb" wouldnt have made that team worth more in the long run?

Who knew if he was going to be a franchise QB? Those things are not usually established in 4 months. Huizenga had a deadline and contract to sell.

He wasn't going to take any chances.

[htismaqe]

many of us just don't think Sanchez has enough upside.

Legit.

He doesn't have a big arm.

Legit too.

He is short.

He'd certainly be more intriguing if he was a couple of inches taller, true.

And he hasn't played enough.

Absolutely agree.

Sanchez sounds like Thigpen to me. Why not just keep Thigpen?

And then you dive off into the deep end. Come on, man, that's INSANE.

How is that a significant upgrade over Thigpen, who's also short and inaccurate at times?

INSANE. Please for the love of God.

why not take Rhett Bomar or Nate Davis later?

Very good question. I'm definitely not opposed to anything at this point.

[htismaqe]

Both CBS sportsline mocks have us taking Curry...and both say Sanchez doesn't go until #17 to the Jets. Experts or no experts...Curry is the better safer pick.

Safer pick, yes.

BETTER pick? That's absolutely debatable.

[SAUTO]

Not considering how fans effect your business side....

THE FACT remains that a qb is worth more to most fans than a lt. and most definitely the franchise is worth more with a good qb. the deal was already agreed to when the dolphins had won one game right? so another losing season would have ruined the deal?

[kcbubb]

My point in mentioning Thigpen, Rhett Bomar or Nate Davis was not to support those players but to show that Sanchez may not be a significant upgrade over those players. If we were picking #15, I would not have a problem with picking Sanchez. I wouldn't even be scared! I just don't think he is worth a #3 pick and really most people don't. I'm tired of certain people acting as if it is obvious that Sanchez is top 5 worthy, and if you don't believe that Sanchez should be the pick that you are an idiot and should shoot yourself.

[DaneMcCloud]

THE FACT remains that a qb is worth more to most fans than a lt. and most definitely the franchise is worth more with a good qb. the deal was already agreed to when the dolphins had won one game right? so another losing season would have ruined the deal?

Ross had the option to buy the team.

And, Parcells had an "out" in contract that said if Huizenga did indeed sell the team, he was to be released from his contract.

Jake Long was the "safe" pick.

[htismaqe]

My point in mentioning Thigpen, Rhett Bomar or Nate Davis was not to support those players but to show that Sanchez may not be a significant upgrade over those players. If we were picking #15, I would not have a problem with picking Sanchez. I wouldn't even be scared! I just don't think he is worth a #3 pick and really most people don't. I'm tired of certain people acting as if it is obvious that Sanchez is top 5 worthy, and if you don't believe that Sanchez should be the pick that you are an idiot and should shoot yourself.

I can see your point that he may not be - hell, is probably not - worth the #3 overall pick.

But he's TREMENDOUSLY more talented than any of those three.

[htismaqe]

Jake Long was the "safe" pick.

To be more precise, he was the "win now" pick. Parcells is an old school guy - he's alot more like Marty than alot of people want to admit. He's just smarter on gameday.

[DeezNutz]

My point in mentioning Thigpen, Rhett Bomar or Nate Davis was not to support those players but to show that Sanchez may not be a significant upgrade over those players. If we were picking #15, I would not have a problem with picking Sanchez. I wouldn't even be scared! I just don't think he is worth a #3 pick and really most people don't. I'm tired of certain people acting as if it is obvious that Sanchez is top 5 worthy, and if you don't believe that Sanchez should be the pick that you are an idiot and should shoot yourself.

I really don't understand this line of thought.

Let's forget individual players for a second, and just talk about the position in general.

If you'd be happy with selecting a QB #10-15, then this is a player you should be happy about selecting at #3.

The difference is money, and that's all.

Positional value suggests that the player wouldn't be a reach at #3.

[CoMoChief]

It's the same shit every year...no pick is a sure thing and people act like if a QB isn't a sure thing you can't possibly draft him.

Matt Ryan started and played in many more games than Sanchez.

Inexperience is the key word in this whole Sanchez debate.

The fact that Carroll said he isn't ready says a lot. And regardless of what certain USC fans think about Carroll and his comment on that, I'd take his word over anyone's word here, or the so called journalism, I mean football "experts"

[DaneMcCloud]

To be more precise, he was the "win now" pick. Parcells is an old school guy - he's alot more like Marty than alot of people want to admit. He's just smarter on gameday.

Yeah, I explained that earlier, in much greater detail.

[htismaqe]

Yeah, I explained that earlier, in much greater detail.

Oops.

[DaneMcCloud]

The fact that Carroll said he isn't ready says a lot.

Yeah.

The word of a narcissistic coach who just saw his title hopes go out the window is much more reliable than everyone else in the know.

:rolleyes:

[DaneMcCloud]

Oops.

No sweat!

:D

[kcbubb]

I really don't understand this line of thought.

Let's forget individual players for a second, and just talk about the position in general.

If you'd be happy with selecting a QB #10-15, then this is a player you should be happy about selecting at #3.

The difference is money, and that's all.

Positional value suggests that the player wouldn't be a reach at #3.

The difference in #3 to #15 is an entire draft in value. That's the difference.

[doomy3]

I really don't understand this line of thought.

Let's forget individual players for a second, and just talk about the position in general.

If you'd be happy with selecting a QB #10-15, then this is a player you should be happy about selecting at #3.

The difference is money, and that's all.

Positional value suggests that the player wouldn't be a reach at #3.

As much as draft chart values are played up around here when discussing trades, I would think this is pretty clear.

[DeezNutz]

The difference in #3 to #15 is an entire draft in value. That's the difference.

Now we're back to trading down? Is that what you're really trying to say when claiming that you'd be happier about taking him at #15.

Yeah, you and everyone else, while we're all getting blowjobs from Denise Richards.

Edit: I didn't even think about that stupid filter. lol.

[DeezNutz]

As much as draft chart values are played up around here when discussing trades, I would think this is pretty clear.

See previous post.

The trade-down scenario, right? Sorry, I was thinking about reality.

[Frosty]

Oops.

Actually, it was good post anyway, considering how many have Dane on ignore. ;)

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Matt Ryan started and played in many more games than Sanchez.

Inexperience is the key word in this whole Sanchez debate.

The fact that Carroll said he isn't ready says a lot. And regardless of what certain USC fans think about Carroll and his comment on that, I'd take his word over anyone's word here, or the so called journalism, I mean football "experts"

No. No it's not. The key "word" is Developable Talent; Sanchez had the skills to compete mightily in college. He has the skills to accelerate through the learning curve at the NFL level. He is a competitive, charismatic leader.

Pete Carroll was an unhappy boy whose ice cream fell to the sidewalk.
That's all you need to know.
Grow up, wake up, and shape up; you just continue to embarrass yourself when you spout invalid talking points like some kind mentally challenged mynah bird.
Most unbecoming.

[doomy3]

See previous post.

The trade-down scenario, right? Sorry, I was thinking about reality.

No, it's about value IMO. Sanchez has huge question marks. Stafford doesn't have nearly as many. That's why IMO Stafford is unquestionably worth that pick, but Sanchez is not. It's like Flacco last year. He was drafted 18th overall, but wouldn't have been worth a top 5 because there were question marks about his small school, combine riser, etc.

At #3, you better be damn sure you are getting a player, and that isn't a sure thing with Sanchez IMO simply because of the history of QBs with limited experience.

[htismaqe]

I just got around to reading the thread starter.

The national talking heads are CRAZY.

Why would anybody in their right mind want to trade away a top 5 pick for a 27 or 28-year old one-year wonder who may or may not have been successful because of his supporting cast/coaching?

I hope to all that is holy that the Lions go after Cassel. It kills two birds with one stone - we get our pick of Stafford/Sanchez AND we don't have to worry about him coming here.

[kcbubb]

Now we're back to trading down? Is that what you're really trying to say when claiming that you'd be happier about taking him at #15.

Yeah, you and everyone else, while we're all getting blowjobs from Denise Richards.

Edit: I didn't even think about that stupid filter. lol.

nope. Curry at #3. He can do it all. He can play any LB position. And chiefs fans need to hope that he falls that far. If we move to the 3-4, he will play outside LB.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I just got around to reading the thread starter.

The national talking heads are CRAZY.

Why would anybody in their right mind want to trade away a top 5 pick for a 27 or 28-year old one-year wonder who may or may not have been successful because of his supporting cast/coaching?

I hope to all that is holy that the Lions go after Cassel. It kills two birds with one stone - we get our pick of Stafford/Sanchez AND we don't have to worry about him coming here.

Nailed it.

[DeezNutz]

No, it's about value IMO. Sanchez has huge question marks. Stafford doesn't have nearly as many. That's why IMO Stafford is unquestionably worth that pick, but Sanchez is not. It's like Flacco last year. He was drafted 18th overall, but wouldn't have been worth a top 5 because there were question marks about his small school, combine riser, etc.

At #3, you better be damn sure you are getting a player, and that isn't a sure thing with Sanchez IMO simply because of the history of QBs with limited experience.

As you get later into round one, you definitely have a point. But most posters have been talking about the #10-15 range, and the point for most is wishful thinking about a trade.

If you'd take QB X at #10, you should be willing to pull the trigger at #3. That's all I'm saying.

The question marks surrounding Flacco were far greater than those around Sanchez, so this isn't really a great comparison. Sanchez is a slam dunk first rounder, and this wasn't the talk around Joe.

We're primarily debating where in round 1 for Sanchez.

[DeezNutz]

nope. Curry at #3. He can do it all. He can play any LB position. And chiefs fans need to hope that he falls that far. If we move to the 3-4, he will play outside LB.

I don't think they'll have to hope too hard, dude.

[CoMoChief]

Yeah.

The word of a narcissistic coach who just saw his title hopes go out the window is much more reliable than everyone else in the know.

:rolleyes:

ROFL at answers like this.


OHHH HES JUST PISSED BECAUSE HE WONT WIN A NC NOW WITH SANCHEZ LEAVING OHHHH NO!!!!!

[DaneMcCloud]

ROFL at answers like this.


OHHH HES JUST PISSED BECAUSE HE WONT WIN A NC NOW WITH SANCHEZ LEAVING OHHHH NO!!!!!

Way to keep up, Champ

[htismaqe]

nope. Curry at #3. He can do it all. He can play any LB position. And chiefs fans need to hope that he falls that far. If we move to the 3-4, he will play outside LB.

Curry is not a 3-4 OLB. Not in any way, shape, or form. I'm not gonna go down the road of knocking his pass rushing skills since it's been done to death here, but let's get real here.

He's ideally suite to play inside in a 3-4 where his nose for the ball and MASSIVE range will allow him to shine.

[htismaqe]

ROFL at answers like this.


OHHH HES JUST PISSED BECAUSE HE WONT WIN A NC NOW WITH SANCHEZ LEAVING OHHHH NO!!!!!

Actually, there is SOME truth to it.

I'm sure there is a very real part of Carroll that is unselfish and rational and knows that Sanchez could have used another year of school. This debate is happening precisely because Sanchez didn't.

But to pretend that the ONLY part of Carroll is the unselfish and rational one is kinda deluded.

[Brock]

ROFL at answers like this.


OHHH HES JUST PISSED BECAUSE HE WONT WIN A NC NOW WITH SANCHEZ LEAVING OHHHH NO!!!!!

When you fully unfurl your stupidity there isn't anyone else that comes close.

[eazyb81]

I just think we are beyond f#cked if Pioli doesn't like Sanchez.

What this team truly needs, whether we run a 3-4 or 4-3, is a pass rushing terror, and it doesn't look like there is one in this draft.

Everette Brown and Orakpo may have that ability, but neither look like potential freaks, and certainly don't warrant a top 3 pick at this point.

So our options appear to be to take a right tackle, reach for a non-elite pass rusher, or a 4-3 OLB/3-4 ILB.

Blech.

We are screwed.

[htismaqe]

I just think we are beyond f#cked if Pioli doesn't like Sanchez.

What this team truly needs, whether we run a 3-4 or 4-3, is a pass rushing terror, and it doesn't look like there is one in this draft.

Everette Brown and Orakpo may have that ability, but neither look like potential freaks, and certainly don't warrant a top 3 pick at this point.

So our options appear to be to take a right tackle, reach for a non-elite pass rusher, or a 4-3 OLB/3-4 ILB.

Blech.

We are screwed.

I thing there's some very good pass rushers that will be available later, like Larry English. I know he bulked up for the combine to try to pass himself off as a 4-3 DE but other guys have done that and then slimmed down again...

I hear ya though, we picked the wrong year to suck.

[kcbubb]

Curry is not a 3-4 OLB. Not in any way, shape, or form. I'm not gonna go down the road of knocking his pass rushing skills since it's been done to death here, but let's get real here.

He's ideally suite to play inside in a 3-4 where his nose for the ball and MASSIVE range will allow him to shine.

He can play anywhere, but with his athletic ability, I have heard that people are projecting him outside. Remember that he is 254 lbs and can run.