USA Today Poll March 2nd

[ArrowheadHawk]

March 2, 2009 (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/usatpoll.htm)

Rank School Record Points Previous
1. Connecticut (27) 27-2 769 2
2. North Carolina 25-3 711 5
3. Memphis (4) 26-3 698 4
4. Pittsburgh 26-3 667 1
5. Oklahoma 26-3 653 3
6. Louisville 23-5 630 6
7. Duke 24-5 597 7
8. Michigan State 23-5 557 9
9. Kansas 24-5 509 15
10. Wake Forest 22-5 480 14
11. LSU 25-4 420 18
12. Missouri 24-5 377 8
13. Washington 22-7 346 21
14. Gonzaga 23-5 339 17
15. Marquette 23-6 327 10
16. Villanova 23-6 324 12
17. UCLA 22-7 295 19
18. Xavier 23-5 260 22
19. Clemson 22-6 219 13
20. Purdue 22-7 211 16
21. Arizona State 21-7 189 11
22. Butler 25-4 168 23
23. Illinois 23-7 107 20
24. Florida State 22-7 67 25
25. Syracuse 21-8 37 NR

[ArrowheadHawk]

Texas gets dropped from the polls.

[luv]

Where's the poll that matters?

[Mr. Plow]

Probably not released yet.

[Bearcat]

I was thinking 10, but they jumped Wake Forest. Crazy.

[Thig Lyfe]

Where's the poll that matters?

BCS doesn't apply to basketball.

[Reerun_KC]

How is MU still in the Top 15?

[Lzen]

How is MU still in the Top 15?

One game does not a season make. Although I didn't expect them to be #12. They aren't really as terrible as KU made them look yesterday. ;)

[Bearcat]

How is MU still in the Top 15?

Marquette (#10 last week), ASU (11), Villanova (12), Clemson (13), and Purdue(16) all lost at least once... 8 losses between the 5 teams. LSU jumped 7 spots just to get ahead of Mizzou.

[sedated]

I'm shocked at how overrated Memphis is (the usual product of a good team that is head-and-shoulders above their conference), and how underrated Louisville is.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Where's the poll that matters?

Any poll with KU in the top 10 matters my darling.

:D

[HC_Chief]

I'm shocked at how overrated Memphis is (the usual product of a good team that is head-and-shoulders above their conference), and how underrated Louisville is.

Have you watched them play this year? They are very, very good. Like last year, don't let their conference fool you.

[sedated]

One game does not a season make.

(IMHO) considering the only reason they were ranked that high was because of the first win over KU, it seems they'd get punished heavily for not being able to back it up.

[sedated]

Have you watched them play this year? They are very, very good. Like last year, don't let their conference fool you.

I have. I watched their loss to Xavier, loss to Georgetown, AND their loss to Syracuse. But I missed the big win over SMU.

[Old Dog]

AP Top 25

1. Connecticut (67) 27-2 1,792
2. North Carolina (3) 25-3 1,678
3. Pittsburgh (1) 26-3 1,612
4. Oklahoma 26-3 1,576
5. Memphis (1) 26-3 1,543
6. Louisville 23-5 1,462
7. Duke 24-5 1,340
8. Michigan State 23-5 1,302
9. Kansas 24-5 1,190
10. Wake Forest 22-5 1,158
11. Villanova 23-6 913
12. LSU 25-4 894
13. Marquette 23-6 860
14. Gonzaga 23-5 837
15. Missouri 24-5 795
16. Washington 22-7 704
17. Xavier 23-5 629
18. Clemson 22-6 564
19. Purdue 22-7 545
20. UCLA 22-7 497
21. Arizona State 21-7 347
22. Butler 25-4 302
23. Illinois 23-7 287
24. Florida State 22-7 272
25. Syracuse 21-8 99
Others Receiving Votes
Creighton 52, Brigham Young 41, Utah 22, Saint Mary's 13, Dayton 11, West Virginia 10, Davidson 9, Texas 9, California 8, South Carolina 7, Providence 7, Washington State 4, Arizona 3, Oklahoma State 2, Boston College 1, Rhode Island 1, American University 1, Utah State 1.

[Lzen]

(IMHO) considering the only reason they were ranked that high was because of the first win over KU, it seems they'd get punished heavily for not being able to back it up.

They were ranked before they played KU. I think that 12 is a little too high, but they are definitely a top 25 team.

[POND_OF_RED]

(IMHO) considering the only reason they were ranked that high was because of the first win over KU, it seems they'd get punished heavily for not being able to back it up.

Pretty sure they have a similar resume to Kansas. Exact same record. Few quality wins and one horrible loss. Just because they had a shitty half doesn't mean they aren't a top 15 team.

[Lzen]

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=jn-kansas030209&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

KU flying high again

By Jason King (http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/expertsarchive;_ylt=At7danOhyJB0.HOsQvIm5vzqz4x4?author=Jason+King), Yahoo! Sports 2 hours, 57 minutes ago
<script type="text/javascript"> YAHOO.Sports.Window.set ( 'byline' );</script><!-- {PHOTO} -->
http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/tools/med/2009/03/ipt/1236009348.jpg Bill Self has the Jayhawks chasing another Big 12 title. (Charlie Riedel/AP)

<!-- {PHOTO ENDS} --> LAWRENCE, Kan. – Basketball practice at the University of Kansas begins in a few minutes, but before he takes the court, Bill Self wants to order a pizza.
Actually, he needs 26 of them.
Self’s goal is to treat each of the 102 students camping out for tickets in the Allen Fieldhouse corridor to at least two slices of Domino’s and Papa John’s finest. With eight pieces per box, he says, 26 pizzas should be the perfect amount.
So Self instructs team manager Justin Pins to place the order. An hour later, students spring from their air-mattresses and folding chairs to form a chow line that leads to stacks of pepperoni pies. Thanks, Coach.
“Wow,” says senior Brett Boyle as he polishes off a slice. “Bill Self just became the most popular guy on campus.”
Boyle smiles.
“Not that he wasn’t already.”
Nearly a year after Mario Chalmers’ 3-pointer propelled Kansas to the 2008 championship, Self and the Jayhawks are once again the talk of college basketball. Sunday’s 90-65 victory over Missouri improved Kansas’ record to 24-5 overall and 13-1 in the Big 12 Conference.
A win over Texas Tech in Lubbock Wednesday would give Self’s team at least a share of the conference title for the fifth consecutive year. The Jayhawks are also in contention for a top seed in the NCAA tournament, which is stunning considering they lost five players from last year’s squad to the NBA draft.
The only player on the current roster who played major minutes during last year’s championship season was Sherron Collins, a junior who averages 18.5 points.
“I’m a little bit surprised – but not amazed,” Collins says of KU’s success. “We’re supposed to win. This is Kansas. It’s what we do.”
At the center of it all is Self, the 47-year-old coach who signed a $3-million per year contract during the offseason. As good as he was during last year’s national title run, it’s no stretch to say that the job he’s done with this year’s team is the finest work of his career.
Self counts four freshmen and five newcomers among his top nine players. He is considered to be one of the leading candidates for national coach of the year.
“I’ve fallen in love with this year’s team,” Self says. “I never would’ve dreamed that it’d be possible to be this in situation.”
Self pauses for a moment.
“Well, OK, maybe I did dream about it,” he says. “But I figured that’s all it was, a dream.”

<hr size="1" width="20%" align="center"> As he slides out of his Lincoln Navigator and walks toward Vermont Street BBQ in Lawrence, Bill Self has a strut in his step.
Earlier that day he and his wife, Cindy, came closer to finalizing a deal on a new home. His book, At Home in the Phog, is one of the hottest sellers a few blocks away at Barnes & Noble and, best of all, his Kansas basketball team is fresh off a win over then-No. 3 Oklahoma.
<!-- {PHOTO} -->

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/tools/med/2009/03/ipt/1236009492.jpg The veteran leadership of Sherron Collins has paid dividends. (Jack Dempsey/AP)

<!-- {PHOTO ENDS} --> Self picks a table in the back of the room and orders a half-slab of baby back ribs and a brisket sandwich – without the bread.
“I’m on a no-carb diet,” he says. “I feel great right now – great”
A few months ago that was hardly the case.
After losing in overtime to Syracuse and suffering a shocking upset against Massachusetts, Self said he made a mistake that, in some ways, was inevitable: He began comparing this team to the seasoned group that won the 2008 national title.
“I wasn’t having much fun,” Self says, “because I wasn’t enjoying the process of watching them get better as much as I should have. I wanted them to practice and play and understand at the level our previous teams did. It was unfair to them, because they couldn’t.”
Indeed, the situation couldn’t have been any more different.
Other than Collins – who made the key pass that led to Chalmers’ big 3-pointer against Memphis – not one returning Kansas player averaged more than three points or eight minutes a game last season.
All of a sudden, positions once occupied by standouts such as Chalmers, Brandon Rush and Darrell Arthur were being manned by former role players such as Brady Morningstar and Tyrel Reed.
Kansas’ newcomers were hailed as one of the country’s top-five recruiting classes by Rivals.com (http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=AoENcoihm36OFwGoJxVzVZbqz4x4/SIG=10rf86rpt/**http%3A//www.rivals.com/), but the seven-player haul didn’t include a single McDonald’s All-American, which was rare for a group of Jayhawks signees.
Still, that didn’t stop Self from using his young players at will – mainly guard Tyshawn Taylor, a late pickup who originally signed with Marquette, and twin forwards Marcus and Markief Morris, who were slow to adapt to Self’s high demands regarding intensity.
A year ago Kansas sometimes had 45-minute practices because the Jayhawks were so experienced and driven and crisp. This winter, though, Kansas’ workouts sometimes went on for hours, with Self spending the majority of his time harping at his players about effort and intensity as much as Xs and Os.
“We’d go home at night and some of the young guys would say, ‘Coach is picking on me,’ ” says Collins, a junior. “I went through the same thing as a freshman. You come in here thinking you know everything. When you have that attitude, you’re going to mess up.”
Shortly after Kansas’ blowout road losses to Arizona and Michigan State, Collins, Morningstar and sophomore Cole Aldrich called an impromptu, no-coaches-allowed team meeting at The Yacht Club, a popular Lawrence restaurant. The Jayhawks hashed out their differences and, by the time they left, Collins said there was a different feel among the players.
“I was probably the most vocal one there,” Collins said. “I just told everyone that Coach Self wanted what was best for them, and that the older guys would be there to help them every step of the way.
“Mainly, I was just sick of losing. Everyone was.”
The strides Kansas has made since that meeting in early January have been impressive.
What the Jayhawks lack in experience they more than make up for in toughness. Kansas isn’t forcing as many turnovers as it did a year ago, but it’s still playing as physical of a brand of basketball in the Big 12.
In leading the league in defensive field-goal percentage (38.2) and rebounding margin (+7.9), the Jayhawks at times resemble Self’s menacing, rugged Illinois teams of the early 2000s that featured players such as Sergio McClain, Marcus Griffin and Lucas Johnson.
Although Collins leads Kansas in scoring, it’s the play of Aldrich in the paint that has generated the most buzz among NBA scouts.
A 6-foot-11 sophomore from Bloomington, Minn., Aldrich averages 15.1 points and 10.8 boards while leading the Big 12 with 2.52 blocks. He’s already being hailed as one of the top rebounders in school history and has drawn comparisons to former NBA star Kevin McHale.
<!-- {PHOTO} -->

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/tools/med/2009/03/ipt/1236009589.jpg The play of Cole Aldrich has drawn comparisons to Kevin McHale. (Orlin Wagner/AP)

“They’re both tall, they’re both white and they’re both from Minnesota,” Self says. “So I guess there are some similarities.
“Seriously, who would’ve ever thought Cole could be this consistent this early? He gets 15 and 10 almost every night. It’s all because Sasha (Kaun) and Darnell (Jackson) and (Arthur) beat the crap out of him every day last year. It made him tougher.
“That team made all of our returning guys tougher. We can face pressure in a game that’s unbelievable – but it won’t be tougher than what those guys went through last year in practice.”

<hr size="1" width="20%" align="center"> Back at Allen Fieldhouse, the Jayhawks are less than 48 hours away from their rematch with a Missouri squad that handed them their only Big 12 loss of the season. As Self begins to chide his team for sloppy effort, Collins asks his teammates to meet him in a huddle at center court.
“We’re this close to winning a Big 12 championship!” he tells them. “Get it together and get to work!”
Aldrich is the top NBA prospect and freshmen such as Taylor and the Morris twins are the program’s future. Still, make no mistake: This is Sherron Collins’ team.
Even though Collins was probably among the Big 12’s top five players as a freshman and sophomore, he agreed to be the Jayhawks’ sixth man so that team chemistry wouldn’t be disrupted by the benching of captain Russell Robinson.
Both players flourished in their roles but, all along, Collins longed for the chance he’s been given now, the chance to run a team.
“Even with all the good teams we’ve had here, this is the first time I’ve seen us have a designated scorer that’s going to take the big shot,” said walk-on forward Matt Kleinmann, who’s been with the program for five seasons.
“Coach Self gave Sherron the reins and he’s gone above and beyond what everyone expected. The example he sets in that locker room … I don’t know if we’ve ever had as strong of a leader as him.”
Collins’ ascension is even more impressive considering where he began.
A native of inner-city Chicago who basically raised himself while his father was in jail and his mother was at work, Collins arrived at Kansas with a massive chip on his shoulder. His best friends growing up had been gang members. As a teenager his best friend was shot and killed a few feet away from his front porch. Within months of moving to Kansas as a freshman, Collins’ infant son, Sherron Jr., died shortly after being born.
Collins was hurting by the time classes began during his freshman season. He trusted no one and had trouble opening up to his teammates and coaches. There was even talk that he’d enter the NBA draft.
“Living in Lawrence can change people,” Kleinmann said. “When Sherron got here he was rough around the edges. He was stubborn. Before, with him, it had probably been every man for himself. Now he loves the fact that it’s everyone for Kansas.”
Self agrees.
“It’s amazing to look at him and see how much he’s changed,” Self says. “His swagger is the intangible thing that’s helped our team more than anything. The attitude and toughness our team has developed wouldn’t exist if he wasn’t there.”
Self hopes the effect Collins is having on the Jayhawks continues throughout the rest of the month and into April. Yes, April.
Before the season no one would’ve even mentioned Kansas and Final Four in the same breath. A few people even chuckled at the conclusion of last season when some of the returning players talked about “defending their title.”
Yet here the Jayhawks are, nearly a year after cutting down the nets at the Alamodome, suddenly looking like contenders once again.
“It’s like if someone wins an award,” Self says. “After you win it, you want to try extra hard to win another one, to prove the first one wasn’t just a one-time thing. It makes you try harder because of what everyone expects.”
In the last few months, the Jayhawks have raised their own bar.
“There’s no question we can play with those teams in the Big East and the ACC – the top teams in the country,” Collins says. “I think people are starting to realize it.
“You don’t hear about last year’s team too much anymore. Instead everyone is coming up to us and talking about the Final Four. Some people think we can do it again.”
Collins pounds the basketball into the hardwood and begins to walk away.
“I guess we’ll see,” he says.

[Old Dog]

Pretty sure they have a similar resume to Kansas. Exact same record. Few quality wins and one horrible loss. Just because they had a shitty half doesn't mean they aren't a top 15 team.

MU = 4 wins vs top 50 RPI
KU = 8 wins vs top 50 RPI

KU = 1 loss to RPI lower than 50
MU = 2 losses to RPI lower than 50

MU = 9 wins over teams with RPI over 200
KU = 6 wins over teams with RPI over 200

I still think they're top 15ish though


*I'm a KSU fan so I'm not really into ya'lls pissing contest if it turns into such.

[Lzen]

MU = 4 wins vs top 50 RPI
KU = 8 wins vs top 50 RPI

KU = 1 loss to RPI lower than 50
MU = 2 losses to RPI lower than 50

MU = 9 wins over teams with RPI over 200
KU = 6 wins over teams with RPI over 200

I still think they're top 15ish though


*I'm a KSU fan so I'm not really into ya'lls pissing contest if it turns into such.

Nice factual post. :thumb:

[|Zach|]

(IMHO) considering the only reason they were ranked that high was because of the first win over KU, it seems they'd get punished heavily for not being able to back it up.

It seems as though that isnt the only reason they were ranked higher.

As if it was not obvious before.

[petegz28]

(IMHO) considering the only reason they were ranked that high was because of the first win over KU, it seems they'd get punished heavily for not being able to back it up.

Dude that is so much bullshit. They were\are ranked high cause they dominate save maybe 2 games or so. They force the most turnovers in the league and have one of the highest win margins at home as well. AND they beat KU.

Get the fuck over yourselves already. You want them to get punished for a game most had them losing anyway? :rolleyes:

[Pablo]

MU = 4 wins vs top 50 RPI
KU = 8 wins vs top 50 RPI

KU = 1 loss to RPI lower than 50
MU = 2 losses to RPI lower than 50

MU = 9 wins over teams with RPI over 200
KU = 6 wins over teams with RPI over 200

I still think they're top 15ish though


*I'm a KSU fan so I'm not really into ya'lls pissing contest if it turns into such.Works for me.

[POND_OF_RED]

MU = 4 wins vs top 50 RPI
KU = 8 wins vs top 50 RPI

KU = 1 loss to RPI lower than 50
MU = 2 losses to RPI lower than 50

MU = 9 wins over teams with RPI over 200
KU = 6 wins over teams with RPI over 200

I still think they're top 15ish though


*I'm a KSU fan so I'm not really into ya'lls pissing contest if it turns into such.

Exactly. Considering that 3 of the 4 more top 50 wins they have are Tenn Siena and a Griffinless Oklahoma I would say the resumes are very similar.

[Old Dog]

You want them to get punished for a game most had them losing anyway? :rolleyes:
They shouldn't (and didn't) get punished for losing a game that most thought they would. I think (and I could be wrong) that some of the KU guys would like to see them lower just because they were never really "in" that game. I think they would have dropped lower if the teams around them didn't lose this past week as well.

OK, in reality most KU fans want them punished simply because they're Mizzou.

I would like to see a rematch in the Big XII tourney on a neitral court, but doubt we'll see it unless OU somehow ends up as the #1 seed.

[Reerun_KC]

You want them to get punished for a game most had them losing anyway? :rolleyes:

I think KU embarrassed them enough...

[Old Dog]

Exactly. Considering that 3 of the 4 more top 50 wins they have are Tenn Siena and a Griffinless Oklahoma I would say the resumes are very similar.

Tennessee and Siena are currently in the top 30 in RPI and pretty much "locks" to get into the tournament. Don't understand your reasoning there.

[petegz28]

I think KU embarrassed them enough...

One game, at KU. And really KU held the lead they had at the half, nothing more. MU had an off day anyway you slice it. But hardly worth dropping them 10 spots as some of you are acting like should happen.

[POND_OF_RED]

Tennessee and Siena are currently in the top 30 in RPI and pretty much "locks" to get into the tournament. Don't understand your reasoning there.

So you really consider a 10 loss SEC team to be a quality victory this year? I was saying MU and KU have the same amount of true quality wins. KU has MU and MU has KU. If you want you could maybe throw in Tex for MU and OU for KU but both teams have not played an extremely tough schedule. MU has a couple losses to bubble teams not playing so well late and KU has a loss against a team out of the tournament in Oct. You guys can toot your own horn as much as you like but both teams have the same looking resumes this year.

[sedated]

One game, at KU. And really KU held the lead they had at the half, nothing more. MU had an off day anyway you slice it. But hardly worth dropping them 10 spots as some of you are acting like should happen.

Do you really think this MU team is even close to this KU team?

I hope there is a rematch in the Big 12 tournament. If they play again, on any court, on any day, KU will win. Write it down, take a picture, I don't give a fuk.

I was never so confident in a KU victory as I was going into the MU game yesterday.

[petegz28]

Do you really think this MU team is even close to this KU team?

I hope there is a rematch in the Big 12 tournament. If they play again, on any court, on any day, KU will win. Write it down, take a picture, I don't give a fuk.

I was never so confident in a KU victory as I was going into the MU game yesterday.

Funny, you guys split the series with MU, beat a Griffenless OU and all the sudden you think you are the best team around. You can trash talk all you want, the fact is you lost to MU. If you played at Columbia again, you would probably lose again.

And golly gee, you were confident KU would beat MU at AFH along with everyone else. You really went out on a limb there.

[|Zach|]

Do you really think this MU team is even close to this KU team?

I hope there is a rematch in the Big 12 tournament. If they play again, on any court, on any day, KU will win. Write it down, take a picture, I don't give a fuk.

I was never so confident in a KU victory as I was going into the MU game yesterday.

This post would make more sense if they swept them.

No worries...you said KU win was the ONLY reason KU was ranked high...they split the series and you are so confused why they didn't drop more.

Seems everyone else knows that what situation is but you.

[Pants]

Funny, you guys split the series with MU, beat a Griffenless OU and all the sudden you think you are the best team around. You can trash talk all you want, the fact is you lost to MU. If you played at Columbia again, you would probably lose again.

And golly gee, you were confident KU would beat MU at AFH along with everyone else. You really went out on a limb there.

Hey, pete, how come you never take the scores into account? The fashion that your team beat KU is a little different from what happened on Sunday, no?

I bet if we played you at your house again, we'd win...

I'm cool with these rankings.

[Lzen]

Exactly. Considering that 3 of the 4 more top 50 wins they have are Tenn Siena and a Griffinless Oklahoma I would say the resumes are very similar.


Dude, are you retarded? Siena is ranked #29 in the RPI. Yeah, Oklahoma was without Griffin. Still a very, very tough team. Especially at their place. Tennesse is another very good team.

And let's not for get that MU had 50% more of their wins against teams that were over 200 RPI.

Yeah, that's similar. :spock:

[luv]

AP Top 25

1. Connecticut (67) 27-2 1,792
2. North Carolina (3) 25-3 1,678
3. Pittsburgh (1) 26-3 1,612
4. Oklahoma 26-3 1,576
5. Memphis (1) 26-3 1,543
6. Louisville 23-5 1,462
7. Duke 24-5 1,340
8. Michigan State 23-5 1,302
9. Kansas 24-5 1,190
10. Wake Forest 22-5 1,158
11. Villanova 23-6 913
12. LSU 25-4 894
13. Marquette 23-6 860
14. Gonzaga 23-5 837
15. Missouri 24-5 795
16. Washington 22-7 704
17. Xavier 23-5 629
18. Clemson 22-6 564
19. Purdue 22-7 545
20. UCLA 22-7 497
21. Arizona State 21-7 347
22. Butler 25-4 302
23. Illinois 23-7 287
24. Florida State 22-7 272
25. Syracuse 21-8 99
Others Receiving Votes
Creighton 52, Brigham Young 41, Utah 22, Saint Mary's 13, Dayton 11, West Virginia 10, Davidson 9, Texas 9, California 8, South Carolina 7, Providence 7, Washington State 4, Arizona 3, Oklahoma State 2, Boston College 1, Rhode Island 1, American University 1, Utah State 1.

That looks good to me.

[petegz28]

Hey, pete, how come you never take the scores into account? The fashion that your team beat KU is a little different from what happened on Sunday, no?

I bet if we played you at your house again, we'd win...

I'm cool with these rankings.

Because teams play differently on different days. Why didn't you blow out MU the first game then? MU got off to the same shaky start at MU only they came back and outscored KU in the 2nd half. KU made adjustments and didn't turn the ball over at KU and MU shot like shit. The fact remains they split. I don't see much difference between losing by 25 and having someone comeback on you 14+ points down in 1 half. That in and of itself says a lot about MU. And KU for that matter.

Get over it. We each won at home. And I think the rankings are fair as well.

BTW, if you played at MU again I think you would lose again. But we will never know.

[Lzen]

So you really consider a 10 loss SEC team to be a quality victory this year? I was saying MU and KU have the same amount of true quality wins. KU has MU and MU has KU. If you want you could maybe throw in Tex for MU and OU for KU but both teams have not played an extremely tough schedule. MU has a couple losses to bubble teams not playing so well late and KU has a loss against a team out of the tournament in Oct. You guys can toot your own horn as much as you like but both teams have the same looking resumes this year.

Good Lord, you are, in fact, retarded. KU's SOS (that's strength of schedule) is #14 according to the RPI. MU's is #54.

[Pants]

Because teams play differently on different days. Why didn't you blow out MU the first game then? MU got off to the same shaky start at MU only they came back and outscored KU in the 2nd half. KU made adjustments and didn't turn the ball over at KU and MU shot like shit. The fact remains they split. I don't see much difference between losing by 25 and having someone comeback on you 14+ points down in 1 half. That in and of itself says a lot about MU. And KU for that matter.

Get over it. We each won at home. And I think the rankings are fair as well.

BTW, if you played at MU again I think you would lose again. But we will never know.

Just like KU had 27 turnovers for a reason, MU shot a horrendous % for a reason as well. I mean, MU just must be really unlucky whenever they play KU, right? And before you mention the 2nd half... I already have an answer - KU relaxed and let off a bit and that was enough for MU to come back and barely win that one at home.

I think we both know that KU is by far the superior team at this point.

[petegz28]

Just like KU had 27 turnovers for a reason, MU shot a horrendous % for a reason as well. I mean, MU just must be really unlucky whenever they play KU, right? And before you mention the 2nd half... I already have an answer - KU relaxed and let off a bit and that was enough for MU to come back and barely win that one at home.

I think we both know that KU is by far the superior team at this point.

Right....make some excuses as to why you lost. That is the bullshit I hate from KU fans. You are so full of shit. MU took it to KU that 2nd half. Tell yourself whatever you need to do deal with that loss. But that is the fact.

[|Zach|]

Just like KU had 27 turnovers for a reason, MU shot a horrendous % for a reason as well. I mean, MU just must be really unlucky whenever they play KU, right? And before you mention the 2nd half... I already have an answer - KU relaxed and let off a bit and that was enough for MU to come back and barely win that one at home.

I think we both know that KU is by far the superior team at this point.

Missouri didn't exactly play lights out the first game. They did enough to win. This could be a mischaracterization of what you are saying...sorry if so...but the first game neither team played that well...the game was disjointed and KU turned the ball over a lot and MU found a way to win. It isn't like KU played horrible and Missouri brought the games of their lives to get that W.

[|Zach|]

MU just must be really unlucky whenever they play KU, right?

Not really, they won one of the games.

[Bearcat]

So you really consider a 10 loss SEC team to be a quality victory this year? I was saying MU and KU have the same amount of true quality wins. KU has MU and MU has KU. If you want you could maybe throw in Tex for MU and OU for KU but both teams have not played an extremely tough schedule. MU has a couple losses to bubble teams not playing so well late and KU has a loss against a team out of the tournament in Oct. You guys can toot your own horn as much as you like but both teams have the same looking resumes this year.

It looks different to me... You can rationalize away Kansas wins and talk about the one loss to the 100+, but the numbers say Kansas has played 5 more games against the top 50 than Missouri, and they've won 4 of them. Kansas is 13-4 against the top 75 and Missouri is 8-5.

We can argue all day about who would win a 7 game series on a neutral court in Switzerland, but the resumes aren't the same. "Yeah, but..." isn't going to push Kansas down or Missouri up to the same line in the tournament (and FWIW, in this week's Bracketology, Kansas is on the 2 line and Missouri is on the 4 line.... the resumes aren't the same).

<pre>
RPI 1-25 26-50 51-75 76-100 101-200 201+
4-3 4-1 5-0 0-0 5-1 6-0
</pre>
<pre>
RPI 1-25 26-50 51-75 76-100 101-200 201+
1-3 3-0 4-2 0-0 6-0 9-0
</pre>

[Pants]

Right....make some excuses as to why you lost. That is the bullshit I hate from KU fans. You are so full of shit. MU took it to KU that 2nd half. Tell yourself whatever you need to do deal with that loss. But that is the fact.

Please point out to me the excuse that I made. I don't see one.

[Pants]

Not really, they won one of the games.

Zach, I'm talking to pete and his 14 point "spot" theory. That silly nincompoop is trying to have it both ways, so I'm just trying to show him the absurdity of his argument.

[petegz28]

Please point out to me the excuse that I made. I don't see one.

The fact you say KU let up and allowed MU to come back. That is an excuse. I know, in your mind it isn't somehow but that is the fact.

[Lzen]

Zach, I'm talking to pete and his 14 point "spot" theory. That silly nincompoop is trying to have it both ways, so I'm just trying to show him the absurdity of his argument.

Give it up, dude. Pete's a blockhead. He will never be rational.

[petegz28]

Zach, I'm talking to pete and his 14 point "spot" theory. That silly nincompoop is trying to have it both ways, so I'm just trying to show him the absurdity of his argument.

Have what both ways? What am I trying to have both ways? You are the one making excuses as to why you lost at MU. You were spotted 14 points and lost. That is the fact. You can't change it, no matter how much you may want too.

[petegz28]

Give it up, dude. Pete's a blockhead. He will never be rational.

And you're half a fag.

[luv]

If MU and KU play against each other in the Big XII tourney, on neutral ground, and both teams play their best games, I think it would be close. I'm pretty sure you all will question my MU fandom when I say that KU would probably come out on top.

[|Zach|]

If MU and KU play against each other in the Big XII tourney, on neutral ground, and both teams play their best games, I think it would be close. I'm pretty sure you all will question my MU fandom when I say that KU would probably come out on top.

Just once it would be really interesting to see an opinion of yours that didn't seem completely manufactured before hand based on how other people will think or react to it.

Have an opinion and just own it regardless of others. I have never seen someone work so hard to tip toe based on input from other people.

[Pants]

The fact you say KU let up and allowed MU to come back. That is an excuse. I know, in your mind it isn't somehow but that is the fact.

WTF are you talking about? It's a mental lapse on KU's part and it's no excuse, it's happened before versus many other teams this year. It just means that KU sucks in terms of mental toughness and you see what happened on Sunday when they didn't fall prey to it. KU had the game in Missouri and they blew it, that's a fact.

[luv]

Just once it would be really interesting to see an opinion of yours that didn't seem completely manufactured before hand based on how other people will think or react to it.

Have an opinion and just own it regardless of others. I have never seen someone work so hard to tip toe based on input from other people.

I believe I did state my opinion. I think KU is the better team right now. However, I don't think MU is as bad as KU fans make them out to be. I think it would be closer than they think it would.

[beer bacon]

If MU wants to play at KU's level they need to figure out how to play consistent offense. It is as simple as that. They can't score in the first halves of games, and it has killed them in most of their losses.

[POND_OF_RED]

Good Lord, you are, in fact, retarded. KU's SOS (that's strength of schedule) is #14 according to the RPI. MU's is #54.

Those will even out tremendously after this week. KU plays #135 and #38 this week while MU will play #5 and #35. Also you played OU while they were #3 I believe but that team was not really a #3.

[petegz28]

WTF are you talking about? It's a mental lapse on KU's part and it's no excuse, it's happened before versus many other teams this year. It just means that KU sucks in terms of mental toughness and you see what happened on Sunday when they didn't fall prey to it. KU had the game in Missouri and they blew it, that's a fact.

Sure it was......mental lapse.....whatever you need to tell yourself. Couldn't of been anything MU did....had to be KU's own doing....

[petegz28]

I believe I did state my opinion. I think KU is the better team right now. However, I don't think MU is as bad as KU fans make them out to be. I think it would be closer than they think it would.

Agree 100%. I don't think anyone is sayin KU is not the better team at the moment. But they are not as good as they are acting like they are and MU is not as bad as they are acting like they are.

[sedated]

Funny, you guys split the series with MU

the average margin of victory this year was KU by 13.5.

I made no excuses for the loss at MU. I don't, however, IMHO, think that it means the teams are completely even, just because it says 1-1 in head-to-head.

MU's home court advantage led to a 2-point win for MU, at the buzzer.
KU's home court advantage led to a 25-point win for KU, that was never, for one second, in doubt.

Now, what can we guess will happen on a neutral court?

[Pants]

Sure it was......mental lapse.....whatever you need to tell yourself. Couldn't of been anything MU did....had to be KU's own doing....

Why would I need to tell myself anything? KU is a better team. Has been and will be. I'm just trying to point some things out to you. You obviously have no idea what I'm talking about, but those mental lapses have been plaguing this KU team all year.

You can believe whatever you want, but know that you will sound stupid to those who are informed. We'll let history be the judge, yeah?

[sedated]

Sure it was......mental lapse.....whatever you need to tell yourself. Couldn't of been anything MU did....had to be KU's own doing....

I don't dicount the effect MU's defense had on KU's turnovers. Mu has a great D, one of the best in the country.

On that same note, I realize the effect KU's defense had on MU's shooting percentage.

But, KU has had long stretches of horrible offense this year, has proven they can get a case of the turnovers, and has let teams that were out of the game at halftime back in at the end. And all of these flaws were proven long before they played MU.

Just like if MU had shot a horrible FG percentage all year before playing KU. I wouldn't walk in and say "look at what KU did to you fools, hahaha!"

I'm saying its both. KU turns the ball over on offense, MU forces turnovers, hence the high number of turnovers.

[|Zach|]

I believe I did state my opinion. I think KU is the better team right now. However, I don't think MU is as bad as KU fans make them out to be. I think it would be closer than they think it would.

Reread my post. I didn't say you didn't state an opinion.

[bobbything]

KU > MU. It's like this every single season. In the end, KU will have a better regular season record, finish higher in the B12, and go farther in the tourney. What's newsworthy about this?

The MU fanbase is as bitter as they should be. They've never really won anything of worth so they live and die off of KU's successes and failures while clinging on to their win at home like a crusty turd on an ass hair. As they should. The better KU does, the better their win looks.

[Bearcat]

The fact you say KU let up and allowed MU to come back. That is an excuse. I know, in your mind it isn't somehow but that is the fact.

Eh... Kansas has done it all year. The reason Missouri didn't chip away at the lead yesterday was that Kansas didn't fall asleep like they normally do. It's not an excuse, it's "what Kansas does". Just like the game in Columbia... I know some said Kansas was just awful with all the turnovers, but in my mind 15 of them came from Kansas' average, and the extra 11 were from "what Mizzou does".

Correct me if I'm wrong, because I don't watch every Missouri game, but it seems to me like the biggest issue for Missouri is that they have to force turnovers, because they take some stupid shots on offense and they don't rebound. So, they can easily get into trouble if they aren't forcing turnovers, and they're SOL if they aren't forcing turnovers and the easy shots aren't falling (yesterday).

OTOH, Kansas can turn the ball over 15-17 times a game (20+ in the win @Lincoln) and still win the game, because they lead the league in defensive FG%, and they have an inside/outside threat on offense. They have a true inside threat, and they have a guard who can take over a game. One of their biggest faults is focus, along with turnovers.

Please add stuff as you see fit, but from this perspective, I can objectively see why someone would think Kansas is the better team (and the "scoreboard" argument only goes so far). That's not to say Kansas is better than everyone else in the nation or that they'll make the FF while Missouri loses in the first round. I just think Kansas has more things working for them. Missouri's thing is forcing turnovers, and from what I've seen they have to do that to be successful... Kansas has a better 3pt%, better FT%, better rebounding/inside presence, and they only have 1 conference loss despite leading the Big 12 in turnovers/game.

[Lzen]

And you're half a pillowbiter.

Eh, nope. I am happily married with 3 children. That is really a weak attempt at smack.

Hey Pete, I found a pic of you.

[Lzen]

Hey Zach,
when were you going to post a video of the MU fans at a bar at the end of the KU/MU football game?

[Silock]

Yes, the rankings are fair. Mizzou is right about where they should be, and KU is where they should be.

That being said, KU is still a better team than Mizzou.

[Pablo]

Hey Zach,
when were you going to post a video of the MU fans at a bar at the end of the KU/MU football game?El oh el.

[petegz28]

Eh, nope. I am happily married with 3 children. That is really a weak attempt at smack.

Hey Pete, I found a pic of you.

That is why I said you were half a fag......

and it wasn't an attempt at smack..just stating the facts, Sir. Just stating the facts.

[Pants]

That is why I said you were half a pillowbiter......

and it wasn't an attempt at smack..just stating the facts, Sir. Just stating the facts.

ur retarted

[petegz28]

ur retarted

And ur a fuckhead :D

[Garcia Bronco]

Go Hokies and Go Heels

[FishingRod]

When MU won the first meeting I congratulated them on not giving up when they were way behind. I said no excuses MU won KU lost. This time it outcome was quite different. Obviously yesterday KU was the better team. Not much else needs to be said.

[kstater]

Dude, are you retarded? Siena is ranked #29 in the RPI. Yeah, Oklahoma was without Griffin. Still a very, very tough team. Especially at their place. Tennesse is another very good team.

And let's not for get that MU had 50% more of their wins against teams that were over 200 RPI.

Yeah, that's similar. :spock:

This is why I think the RPI is overused and overrated. Yeah Siena has a good RPI. But if you actually look at that team, they didn't actually beat any of those tough teams. Siena's best win is Buffalo. They had a very brutal non-con schedule, but didn't actuall win any of those games.

[joesomebody]

It looks different to me... You can rationalize away Kansas wins and talk about the one loss to the 100+, but the numbers say Kansas has played 5 more games against the top 50 than Missouri, and they've won 4 of them. Kansas is 13-4 against the top 75 and Missouri is 8-5.

We can argue all day about who would win a 7 game series on a neutral court in Switzerland, but the resumes aren't the same. "Yeah, but..." isn't going to push Kansas down or Missouri up to the same line in the tournament (and FWIW, in this week's Bracketology, Kansas is on the 2 line and Missouri is on the 4 line.... the resumes aren't the same).



RPI 1-25 26-50 51-75 76-100 101-200 201+
4-3 4-1 5-0 0-0 5-1 6-0
</pre>


RPI 1-25 26-50 51-75 76-100 101-200 201+
1-3 3-0 4-2 0-0 6-0 9-0
</pre>Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I don't see any MU fans complaining about the rankings, and if they are it is foolish. I think it is an accurate depiction of where the two teams are right now. I'm hoping Mizzou can put on a good show against OU, and maybe even pull out the win. I doubt it, but that would be a nice cap on the regular season to get that nasty loss in beakerville out of our minds.

Kansas's win over Mizzou at AFH was impressive. MU is not ready to play on that stage, luckily we have some important games left to get some of the experience we will need to play in the NCAA tourney.

As a Mizzou fan, I'm just happy to see Mizzou anywhere near the top 25. A 4 seed in the tourney is far more than even the most optimistic Mizzou fan could have dreamed of coming into this season.

Kansas is young and inexperienced, but they are performing very well down the strecth in some hostile environments to boot. You guys are going to be a force to be reckoned with next year, and no slouch this year either.

May KU crash and burn in an epic fashion in the tourney though :D

[joesomebody]

KU > MU. It's like this every single season. In the end, KU will have a better regular season record, finish higher in the B12, and go farther in the tourney. What's newsworthy about this?

The MU fanbase is as bitter as they should be. They've never really won anything of worth so they live and die off of KU's successes and failures while clinging on to their win at home like a crusty turd on an ass hair. As they should. The better KU does, the better their win looks.You sound like a Donkey fan talking about the Chiefs. Fuck Kansas and their mother they rode in on. :grr:

[Bearcat]

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I don't see any MU fans complaining about the rankings, and if they are it is foolish. I think it is an accurate depiction of where the two teams are right now. I'm hoping Mizzou can put on a good show against OU, and maybe even pull out the win. I doubt it, but that would be a nice cap on the regular season to get that nasty loss in beakerville out of our minds.

Kansas's win over Mizzou at AFH was impressive. MU is not ready to play on that stage, luckily we have some important games left to get some of the experience we will need to play in the NCAA tourney.

As a Mizzou fan, I'm just happy to see Mizzou anywhere near the top 25. A 4 seed in the tourney is far more than even the most optimistic Mizzou fan could have dreamed of coming into this season.

Kansas is young and inexperienced, but they are performing very well down the strecth in some hostile environments to boot. You guys are going to be a force to be reckoned with next year, and no slouch this year either.

May KU crash and burn in an epic fashion in the tourney though :D

The argument was that Kansas is quite a bit better than Missouri, and the counter was basically "Mizzou split the series" and "scoreboard.

I was hoping to get some decent responses from the Mizzou crowd, but unfortunately logic and reason are anchors in the sea of pointless smack talk.



And I don't know about an epic crash and burn... at the beginning of the season the vast majority of Jayhawks fans were expecting to finish 3rd or 4th in the conference and get a seed around 5+... and 5 might have been high. I'm still in denial about the whole thing, so while I obviously want them to get into the second weekend, and earlier exit isn't going to be a huge disappointment or surprise.

[|Zach|]

Hey Zach,
when were you going to post a video of the MU fans at a bar at the end of the KU/MU football game?

Glad that stuck with you so long. How long you been carrying this post around? LMAO

Great game tonight.

[007]

flip/flop