Torry Holt released

[KCrockaholic]

didnt see it posted anywhere yet... Do we take a look at him? He still has a couple real good years left.

http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/03/13/rams-release-wr-holt/

[CaliforniaChief]

Bring him in...along with Orlando Pace, Trent Green, Dre Bly, Derrick Brooks, Jason Taylor, Byron Leftwich, Roy Williams, Samari Rolle, and Jeff Garcia.

[KCrockaholic]

Bring him in...along with Orlando Pace, Trent Green, Dre Bly, Derrick Brooks, Jason Taylor, Byron Leftwich, Roy Williams, Samari Rolle, and Jeff Garcia.

Holt has more left than any of those guys you listed.

[talastan]

Holt has a little gas left in him and he's the type of big play reciever that Haley would love to have. Not a diva, just a fast talented football player. Holt/Bowe duo would be great.

[CaliforniaChief]

His production is dropping off quickly.

http://www.nfl.com/players/torryholt/careerstats?id=HOL771651

[DaneMcCloud]

Bring him in...along with Orlando Pace, Trent Green, Dre Bly, Derrick Brooks, Jason Taylor, Byron Leftwich, Roy Williams, Samari Rolle, and Jeff Garcia.

:Lin:

[ChiefRon]

Pioli passes.

[KCChiefsMan]

last year was his first bad year I guess. But the Rams were horrible, I'd sign him to a 3 yr deal if it wasn't too expensive

[alpha_omega]

I would have to say no.

[Mile High Mania]

Holt would look great in predominantly orange and blue.

[KCrockaholic]

His production is dropping off quickly.

http://www.nfl.com/players/torryholt/careerstats?id=HOL771651

So did his Quarterback last year...

[KCrockaholic]

last year was his first bad year I guess. But the Rams were horrible, I'd sign him to a 3 yr deal if it wasn't too expensive

well look at the QB's he had throwing him the ball...Bulger was hurt most the year and Trent frickin Green had to start some games for the Lambs. Nobody can be productive in that type of offense.

[Pioli Zombie]

Are you kidding me? Of course you bring him in? Why the F wouldn't you bring him in?
Posted via Mobile Device

[OnTheWarpath15]

A 32 year old WR with an arthritic knee?

Pass.

[jeffery]

Ok first of all...why would u not bring him in...he is younger thanT.O. IIRC...with a young talented wide out on the other side of holt with the best tight end to possibly ever touch a foot ball...Cassel would have all the weapons he needs to be succesful this year and we take care of a draft need...as in no more talk of crabtree...u can now shift your draft focus on...A...aron curry...or B...trade down and grab either a d lineman or an o lineman
Posted via Mobile Device

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

YES. it's not like we're in the process of developing a #2 receiver anyway.

[DaneMcCloud]

A 32 year old WR with an arthritic knee?

Pass.

Oh, come on, Man!

We could afford to pass on Crabtree at #3 if we got Holt We could draft Curry and all would be well with the world!

Playoffs!

[DaneMcCloud]

YES. it's not like we're in the process of developing a #2 receiver anyway.

Yeah, of course you're right.

Bradley and Franklin should be cut soon.

[CaliforniaChief]

Holt would look great in predominantly orange and blue.

I didn't know Holt was a running back too.

[RustShack]

YES. it's not like we're in the process of developing a #2 receiver anyway.

Are you a Mizzou fan? Franklin isn't a #2 receiver.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Oh, come on, Man!

We could afford to pass on Crabtree at #3 if we got Holt We could draft Curry and all would be well with the world!

Playoffs!

To the motherfucking 'Ship!

[sfchief]

Holt has not lost his burst! He had no quarterback last year, the rams ol sucks and he was hurt. worth a look

[chiefs1111]

Ok first of all...why would u not bring him in...he is younger thanT.O. IIRC...with a young talented wide out on the other side of holt with the best tight end to possibly ever touch a foot ball...Cassel would have all the weapons he needs to be succesful this year and we take care of a draft need...as in no more talk of crabtree...u can now shift your draft focus on...A...aron curry...or B...trade down and grab either a d lineman or an o lineman
Posted via Mobile Device

You don't bring him in because as Onthewarpath stated he's a 32 year old WR with a bad knee......

[raybec 4]

Maybe we could bring in Billy "White Shoes" Johnson or Lynn Swann to see what they still have left as well.

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

Yeah, of course Im right.

both are laughable #2 options

[KCrockaholic]

Maybe we could bring in Billy "White Shoes" Johnson or Lynn Swann to see what they still have left as well.

White shoes FTW!

[jeffery]

How old is randy moss
Posted via Mobile Device

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

Are you a Mizzou fan? Franklin isn't a #2 receiver.

I wasn't being sarcastic... I hate Franklin

[talastan]

I would support bringing him in as long as the price is right. I'd make sure you sign him to a cheap enough contract that cutting him won't kill your cap, once you draft his replacement

[DaneMcCloud]

Yeah, of course Im right.

both are laughable #2 options

Yeah, Mark Bradley sucks.

He had 30 receptions, a 12.7 yard average, 380 yards and 3 TD's in 8 games.

What a loser.

[Coach]

Yeah, Mark Bradley sucks.

He had 30 receptions, a 12.7 yard average, 380 yards and 3 TD's in 8 games.

What a loser.

That's not the issue. The issue is him staying healthy. That was one of his problem before he came to Kansas City.

[jeffery]

Cuase bradleys numbers were so impressive...multiply times 2 and that's 60 receptions and akmost 800 yards....not so good
Posted via Mobile Device

[Easy 6]

Holt has some good years left IMO, a good as it gets route runner with velcro hands...but that doesnt mean he belongs here.

I'll take a pass.

[raybec 4]

That's not the issue. The issue is him staying healthy. That was one of his problem before he came to Kansas City.

That's true, but Holt isn't the answer at this point if you're concerned about someone staying healthy.

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

Remind me why bradley only played 8 games? Oh yeah... only QBs and Brodie Croyle should be critcized for not being able to stay healthy.

[OnTheWarpath15]

There are a lot of people that have no clue whatsoever as to why the Rams released him.

It wasn't all about money. The roster bonus he was due was just a little over $1M. That's nothing.

Bottom line, they don't think he's capable of being productive at any price. They didn't even ask him to take a cut and stick around - which is pretty telling when you consider their best WR right now is Donnie Avery.

You guys think that because he's "only" 32, he can play until he's 35. Apparently you've missed the part where team doctors have determined that his knee is arthritic, and they doubt he'll be able to stay healthy.

Spagnuolo and Devaney have YET to make a move that have left people scratching their heads, and people shouldn't start with this move.

[DaneMcCloud]

That's not the issue. The issue is him staying healthy. That was one of his problem before he came to Kansas City.

I understand that but I hardly think he's worthless.

[jeffery]

Ill put this debate to rest...do we have anyone currently better on the roster if so I say no but if yes then I say yes
Posted via Mobile Device

[DaneMcCloud]

Remind me why bradley only played 8 games? Oh yeah... only QBs and Brodie Croyle should be critcized for not being able to stay healthy.

Um, no n00b.

He was acquired by the Chiefs after he was cut by the Bears.

And he's only 27.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Cuase bradleys numbers were so impressive...multiply times 2 and that's 60 receptions and akmost 800 yards....not so good
Posted via Mobile Device

64 receptions

796 yards

3 TD's.

Those are Holt's numbers from last year, in 16 games.

[DaneMcCloud]

There are a lot of people that have no clue whatsoever as to why the Rams released him.

It wasn't all about money. The roster bonus he was due was just a little over $1M. That's nothing.

Bottom line, they don't think he's capable of being productive at any price. They didn't even ask him to take a cut and stick around - which is pretty telling when you consider their best WR right now is Donnie Avery.

You guys think that because he's "only" 32, he can play until he's 35. Apparently you've missed the part where team doctors have determined that his knee is arthritic, and they doubt he'll be able to stay healthy.

Spagnuolo and Devaney have YET to make a move that have left people scratching their heads, and people shouldn't start with this move.

I guarantee that the majority of members will ignore or not read this post and continue to lobby for his signing.

[KCrockaholic]

Yeah, Mark Bradley sucks.

He had 30 receptions, a 12.7 yard average, 380 yards and 3 TD's in 8 games.

What a loser.


those arent good numbers. I like Bradley, but he will fit well as a #3 option, hes not a slot guy, but in certain packages he can do very well. But Bradley is not a good #2 guy. we need someone with good hands to teach Bowe how to catch.

[chiefs1111]

I guarantee that the majority of members will ignore or not read this post and continue to lobby for his signing.

Yup. Most people just want to bring him in because he's a big name

[raybec 4]

64 receptions

796 yards

3 TD's.

Those are Holt's numbers from last year, in 16 games.

Almost exactly what Bradley would have done in 16 games, wow.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Almost exactly what Bradley would have done in 16 games, wow.

But Bradley is a POS and Holt has a few years left.

:rolleyes:

This place is comedy fucking gold.

[raybec 4]

those arent good numbers. I like Bradley, but he will fit well as a #3 option, hes not a slot guy, but in certain packages he can do very well. But Bradley is not a good #2 guy. we need someone with good hands to teach Bowe how to catch.

Isn't that what the receivers coach does? Now that would be a good job for Holt!!

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

The high and mighty clan is getting ridiculous... to the point that they are defending Mark fucking Bradley while continuing to ridicule everybody else

Draft Value......Aaron Curry.......old free agents...blah blah. I get it, your tired of 9-7 and only a group of 23-29 year olds can get us to the ship

[CaliforniaChief]

But Bradley is a POS and Holt has a few years left.

:rolleyes:

This place is comedy ****ing gold.

Exactly. Your previous post was right on the money. We're just "flustrated" because we haven't brought in names...so when a name like Torry Holt hits the market we start pining for him. Bradley's a better WR than Holt right now...especially when you consider that with Thigpen throwing, it was usually
1. Gonzalez
2. Gonzalez
3. Bowe
4. Gonzalez
5. Run

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

:homer:But Bradley is a POS and Holt has a few years left.



This place is comedy ****ing gold.

:homer:

[raybec 4]

The high and mighty clan is getting ridiculous... to the point that they are defending Mark fucking Bradley while continuing to ridicule everybody else

Draft Value......Aaron Curry.......old free agents...blah blah. I get it, your tired of 9-7 and only a group of 23-29 year olds can get us to the ship

You have 14 fuckin posts and you already claim to be an expert on the board? Who were you before?

[beach tribe]

Nah. Get a young receiver, and get him on the field. Franklin needs reps on the field as well. No since in a SR WR taking reps away from guys who need them.

[OnTheWarpath15]

:homer:

:homer:

I'm not defending Bradley, you idiot.

I'm showing how stupid some of you look for bashing him, when statistically, he produced at the same level as the guy you guys are begging to bring in.

Who happens to be 5 years older, and has lost a step or three due to an arthritic knee.

I want an upgrade from Bradley as well, but Torry fucking Holt isn't it.

[royr17]

I say bring him in, he's a good receiver, and D-Bo, Holt, and Bradley would be a good 1-3 combination for Haleys offense and good for Matt Cassell to rely on.

Im all for it, bring him in.

[CaliforniaChief]

I'm still a noob myself but have come to see ChiefsPlanet a little like the Jim Rome show. Check it out for awhile, learn to see how it works, and it really grows on you. Then you will understand the high degree of sarcasm that exists and will learn how to survive.

[royr17]

Bring him in...along with Orlando Pace, Trent Green, Dre Bly, Derrick Brooks, Jason Taylor, Byron Leftwich, Roy Williams, Samari Rolle, and Jeff Garcia.

Well I dont know all about that but Im definately with bringin Pace, Trent, Brooks, and Taylor in.

Let Trent retire in KC, Brooks can be good for the chiefs, Pace can anchor down that right side, and Taylor can bring a most needed pass rush.

[CoMoChief]

People forget we had eddie kennison and how productive he was.

Holt would be a lot more productive than Eddie Kennison.

[CaliforniaChief]

Well I dont know all about that but Im definately with bringin Pace, Trent, Brooks, and Taylor in.

Let Trent retire in KC, Brooks can be good for the chiefs, Pace can anchor down that right side, and Taylor can bring a most needed pass rush.

I was completely kidding on all of them. Unless Trent Green wants to be the QB Coach.
http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/images/smilies/roll.gif

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

Torry holt has had a bad knee for some time...hasn't stopped him from producing except for last year when the Rams only passed for like 200 yards/game (Holt getting 1/4 of it)...atleast he played all 16 games...we'll always have to count on doubling Bradley's numbers

[Micjones]

Yeah, Mark Bradley sucks.

He had 30 receptions, a 12.7 yard average, 380 yards and 3 TD's in 8 games.

What a loser.

Over a full season that's still a pretty unimpressive stat line for a #2.
And we saw first hand that the knock on Bradley is his inability to stay healthy.

[Micjones]

Bradley's a better WR than Holt right now...

Please, for the love of all that is holy, tell me you were joking...
:eek:

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

You have 14 ****in posts and you already claim to be an expert on the board? Who were you before?

when did I claim to be an expert?...becuase I don't like bradley or Franklin...not all of my posts carry the same theme like some others

[DaneMcCloud]

I say bring him in, he's a good receiver, and D-Bo, Holt, and Bradley would be a good 1-3 combination for Haleys offense and good for Matt Cassell to rely on.

Im all for it, bring him in.

Example #1


ROFL

[DaneMcCloud]

Well I dont know all about that but Im definately with bringin Pace, Trent, Brooks, and Taylor in.

Let Trent retire in KC, Brooks can be good for the chiefs, Pace can anchor down that right side, and Taylor can bring a most needed pass rush.

Man, I wished you posted more, Junior.

Talk about comedy fucking GOLD!

ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

[OnTheWarpath15]

Over a full season that's still a pretty unimpressive stat line for a #2.
And we saw first hand that the knock on Bradley is his inability to stay healthy.

And replacing him with a guy that is 5 years older, who is slower and has an arthritic knee - at a much greater cost - is the answer?

C'mon. I KNOW you're WAY smarter than this.

Torry Holt 5 years ago?

Go get him.

Torry Holt now? He IS Mark Bradley.

Except older, slower and more expensive.

[royr17]

Man, I wished you posted more, Junior.

Talk about comedy ****ing GOLD!

ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL


Well I have a life and have more things to do than be on Chiefsplanet all the time. Not sayin that there is anything wrong with that, im just very busy man.

Takin care of my family, working, goin to college, settin up life for my family, i have alot to take care of.

[DaneMcCloud]

Over a full season that's still a pretty unimpressive stat line for a #2.
And we saw first hand that the knock on Bradley is his inability to stay healthy.

Mic's at it again. Way to read.

Please, for the love of all that is holy, tell me you were joking...
:eek:

Um, he's not.

As I previously stated, everyone will ignore OTWP58's post about Holt's decline and arthritic knee.

This place is as predictable as a Swiss watch.

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

Mark Bradley could never produce 1/4 of his team's receiving yards...ever.

[raybec 4]

when did I claim to be an expert?...becuase I don't like bradley or Franklin...not all of my posts carry the same theme like some others

You didn't I'm just waiting to see how long before you spam the board with pron.

[royr17]

I was completely kidding on all of them. Unless Trent Green wants to be the QB Coach.
http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/images/smilies/roll.gif

Well im serious about bringin back Trent. Guy was a good QB, I liked him when he was the Chiefs QB, I mean he's nothin more than 2 or 3 now, but i'd love to have him back in the Chiefs organization.

Granted Pace has injurie issues, but if he can get over those he can anchor down the right side and be a mentor at the same time to Albert.

Taylor would give a much needed pass rush.

Holt would be great for the Chiefs, could help out D-Bo alot. Like I said D-Bo, him, and Bradley would be a good 1-3 punch. Much like Fitz, Boldin, and that other wr for the Cardinals.

[DaneMcCloud]

Mark Bradley could never produce 1/4 of his team's receiving yards...ever.

Thanks for the insight.

:rolleyes:

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

Mic's at it again. Way to read.



Um, he's not.

As I previously stated, everyone will ignore OTWP58's post about Holt's decline and arthritic knee.

This place is as predictable as a Swiss watch.

and you will continue to ignore that Holt actually plays with the bum knee and still produces

[DaneMcCloud]

Well im serious about bringin back Trent. Guy was a good QB, I liked him when he was the Chiefs QB, I mean he's nothin more than 2 or 3 now, but i'd love to have him back in the Chiefs organization.

Granted Pace has injurie issues, but if he can get over those he can anchor down the right side and be a mentor at the same time to Albert.

Taylor would give a much needed pass rush.

Holt would be great for the Chiefs, could help out D-Bo alot. Like I said D-Bo, him, and Bradley would be a good 1-3 punch. Much like Fitz, Boldin, and that other wr for the Cardinals.

We need a smilie for Comedy Gold.

Maybe Junior's face?

[DaneMcCloud]

and you will continue to ignore that Holt actually plays with the bum knee and still produces

And you will ignore the fact that he HAS an arthritic knee and advocate signing him.

JFC.

[the Talking Can]

ESPN just reported this as "breaking news"


awesome

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

still plays...still produces...don't care about his knee when he's not going to be a big investment

[Micjones]

And replacing him with a guy that is 5 years older, who is slower and has an arthritic knee - at a much greater cost - is the answer?

C'mon. I KNOW you're WAY smarter than this.

Torry Holt 5 years ago?

Go get him.

Torry Holt now? He IS Mark Bradley.

Except older, slower and more expensive.

Think critically OTW.

Bradley just came off the most productive season of his NFL career...
5 years into his career.

And it's not as though he had a Joe Horn-esque ascension.
His best season to this point in his NFL tenure amounted to less than 400 yards receiving.

In 5 years he has amassed, 12 -- count them 12, career starts.

Torry Holt is a Hall of Famer who, even at 32, had a season twice as good as Bradley has EVER POSTED.

On a team where his QB threw for roughly 100 more yards than Tyler "fucking" Thigpen did...
And he (Bulger) played in 4 MORE GAMES!!!

Holt can play another 3 years without blinking.
He's easily an upgrade, gives you a legitimate #2, puts Bradley in his rightful place as a slot receiver, gives Dwayne Bowe someone to look up to and learn from, and brings a championship attitude and experience to THE FOOTBALL FIELD.

Please explain to me why you wouldn't consider signing Torry Holt?
This is just crazy. Sometimes it's almost like you guys just don't think.

Mark Bradley has 963 career receiving yards for God's sake!!!

*Slams keyboard and walks out of thread*

[DaneMcCloud]

*Slams keyboard and walks out of thread*

I'm sure he's going to continue with HOF production on an arthritic knee.

JFC.

I'm absolutely convinced that members here just can't read.

[kcxiv]

There isn't a damned thing wrong with wanting to lake at certain veterans. Some of them could actually help this team. There is afew on the list someone made here i wouldn't mind see'ing on the team. I wont be upset if they aren't signed either. I am with having a mixture of veterans on this team. We need alot more then what this draft has to offer. Some of the guys on last years team shouldn't be on a NFL roster.

I bet if we signed 3 of them old players, we would still have one of the top 3 youngest teams in the NFL. I dont know why some people are so dead against it.

[OnTheWarpath15]

and you will continue to ignore that Holt actually plays with the bum knee and still produces

Produces what?

As a WR1 last year, he produced at the same level as our WR2.

Again, he's 32 years old, and his knee is down to bone-on-bone. He's the WR version of Marshall Faulk. He's deteriorating, and quickly.

[CoMoChief]

You have 14 ****in posts and you already claim to be an expert on the board? Who were you before?

What do # of posts have anything to do with it? He makes a good point.

People are deathly afraid of adding vets over the age of 30. If we don't overpay or give them 5-6 deals then its ok to patch holes here and there.

But you need to draft well no matter what you do, which is something the Chiefs have never done until maybe just recently. Well, havent drafted well in a long time, NEVER is a little harsh I guess.

Holt is 10x better than Bradley, Franklin, and is prob better than Bowe even though hes on the downside of his career. He was inj last season and thats what slowed him down. He's arguably that best route runner in the NFL.

[DaneMcCloud]

What do # of posts have anything to do with it? He makes a good point.

People are deathly afraid of adding vets over the age of 30. If we don't overpay or give them 5-6 deals then its ok to patch holes here and there.

But you need to draft well no matter what you do, which is something the Chiefs have never done until maybe just recently. Well, havent drafted well in a long time, NEVER is a little harsh I guess.

Holt is 10x better than Bradley, Franklin, and is prob better than Bowe even though hes on the downside of his career. He was inj last season and thats what slowed him down. He's arguably that best route runner in the NFL.

ROFL

768 yards and 3 TD's last year.

He's Dorian Grey.

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

Same Point...different post

JFC

Board=idiots

i don't know that anybody expects Holt to continue HOF production...but 900 yards and 6 TDs sounds about right in a better offense. Maybe Bradley COULD do that, but based on his career, there is no indication that he ever will. It's like Saying Tamba could produce in the 3-4...right?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Think critically OTW.

Bradley just came off the most productive season of his NFL career...
5 years into his career.

And it's not as though he had a Joe Horn-esque ascension.
His best season to this point in his NFL tenure amounted to less than 400 yards receiving.

In 5 years he has amassed, 12 -- count them 12, career starts.

Torry Holt is a Hall of Famer who, even at 32, had a season twice as good as Bradley has EVER POSTED.

On a team where his QB threw for roughly 100 more yards than Tyler "fucking" Thigpen did...
And he (Bulger) played in 4 MORE GAMES!!!

Holt can play another 3 years without blinking.
He's easily an upgrade, gives you a legitimate #2, puts Bradley in his rightful place as a slot receiver, gives Dwayne Bowe someone to look up to and learn from, and brings a championship attitude and experience to THE FOOTBALL FIELD.

Please explain to me why you wouldn't consider signing Torry Holt?
This is just crazy. Sometimes it's almost like you guys just don't think.

Mark Bradley has 963 career receiving yards for God's sake!!!

*Slams keyboard and walks out of thread*

Slam your keyboard all you want.

I live in reality.

WAS the guy one of the best WR's to play in this decade? Absolutely.

But as someone who is pretty close to the situation, I can tell you that his knee is falling apart at a rapid pace. He has what was considered to be minor surgery in 2007, and is literally down to a bone-on-bone situation now.

I doubt he could even play for 3 more years, much less be productive.

He's been getting by with pain management techniques - and the Rams are smart enough to understand that you can only do that so long. Expecting a guy to be productive for 3 more years in that condition is ridiculous.

[wild1]

it all depends on his knee whether he'd be worth it or not, information none of us are really able to discern without being a professional and knowing the details of his case. he doesn't have great size or anything. he could perhaps be effective as a guy in an offense, but you shouldn't convince yourself you're getting (or should pay for) the Torry Holt we used to know

[OnTheWarpath15]

Man, people here have some SERIOUS reading comprehension problems.

I have NO problem bringing vets in.

I DO have a problem with bringing vets in that are on their last leg. (literally)

If those of you want to continue to live in a fantasy world where a guy with a knee that is currently grinding bone-on-bone is going to keep producing at a HOF level, be my guest.

Like I said earlier, the Rams dropping him had as much, if not more to do with his knee problems than the money - they are in MUCH worse shape at the WR position than we are.

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

Here's what he can do it three years. Help in the development of Cassel and contribute to winning games therefore attracting better free agents in the future. Im not asking him to lead them to the Super Bowl, just to produce while we have no other options at WR (unless we're talking draft)

['Hamas' Jenkins]

People forget we had eddie kennison and how productive he was.

Holt would be a lot more productive than Eddie Kennison.

Except Eddie Kennison was 28 when he came here and Holt is 32 with a shot knee.

Are you fucking retarded?

[DaneMcCloud]

Man, people here have some SERIOUS reading comprehension problems.



http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5580234&postcount=41

I guarantee that the majority of members will ignore or not read this post and continue to lobby for his signing.

[DaneMcCloud]

Except Eddie Kennison was 28 when he came here and Holt is 32 with a shot knee.

Are you fucking retarded?

Oh, I can answer that question, Teach!

YES!

Yes, he is fucking retarded.

[Micjones]

Mic's at it again. Way to read.

At making a fool out of you?
You're right. I wear that like a badge of honor.

When Lemon alluded to Bradley/Franklin not being #2 caliber WR's you made a snide comment about them being cut. That would seem to me to tip your hand about how you feel about Bradley.

I'm merely pointing out that even if you projected his 2008 stat line out over a full season it wouldn't be much to look at.

As I previously stated, everyone will ignore OTWP58's post about Holt's decline and arthritic knee.

A decline which had nothing to do with STL's God-awful offense?

This place is as predictable as a Swiss watch.

Yeah, you're a much more reliable source for all things WR in the NFL.

"Devery Henderson is a possession receiver."

ROFL

[Micjones]

I'm sure he's going to continue with HOF production on an arthritic knee.

JFC.

I'm absolutely convinced that members here just can't read.

I'm convinced that you offer nothing to real football discourse.
Especially as it relates to WR's.

[DaneMcCloud]

At making a fool out of you?
You're right. I wear that like a badge of honor.

When Lemon alluded to Bradley/Franklin not being #2 caliber WR's you made a snide comment about them being cut. That would seem to me to tip your hand about how you feel about Bradley.

I'm merely pointing out that even if you projected his 2008 stat line out over a full season it wouldn't be much to look at.



A decline which had nothing to do with STL's God-awful offense?



Yeah, you're a much more reliable source for all things WR in the NFL.

"Devery Henderson is a possession receiver."

ROFL

Yeah, Mic.

Let's just toss a guy to the wayside that catches 60 balls and 6 TD's. That's awesome logic.

And as far as the Devery Henderson thing, you obviously did not understand that I was baiting Claythan throughout that entire thread, trying to get his goat.

It seemed to work. On you, too.

[DaneMcCloud]

I'm convinced that you offer nothing to real football discourse.
Especially as it relates to WR's.

ROFL

You're so fucking funny. JFC, Mic. How many times do I need to link to your stupid fucking ideas about Huard being the man, Michael Boley not worthy of a free agent signing and all of the millions of other absurd comments you've made over the past several years?

I'm kind of sick of it. Aren't you?

[MTG#10]

We have so much room under the cap why not bring him in for a couple seasons? He would be a good guy for our younger receivers to learn from.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I'm merely pointing out that even if you projected his 2008 stat line out over a full season it wouldn't be much to look at.

Yet Bradley's projected stats, as a WR2, would be almost identical to Holt, who was the WR1 for STL. People are advocating bringing in Holt based on his past, not what he's capable of on a shot knee.

If the guy just had a "bad" knee, I'd be more open to it.

But the guy is grinding bone-on-bone.

Expecting 3 years of production out of a WR in that condition, and at that age is wishful thinking.

[CoMoChief]

ROFL

768 yards and 3 TD's last year.

He's Dorian Grey.

He was hurt last season

[OnTheWarpath15]

He was hurt last season

And knees without cartilage get BETTER with time?

Again, the guy is grinding bone-on-bone.

Not a condition that is going to improve.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Holt is 10x better than Bradley, Franklin, and is prob better than Bowe

Jesus Mother-Squatfucking Christ.

[Micjones]

Slam your keyboard all you want.

I live in reality.

No, sir, you don't.
You said a 5-year player with 963 career receiving yards is as good as a Hall of Fame WR who even in a down year is just 200 yards shy of WR A's career totals. Bradley has a 5 year stat line that looks like one of Holt's previous single season campaigns!

But as someone who is pretty close to the situation, I can tell you that his knee is falling apart at a rapid pace. He has what was considered to be minor surgery in 2007, and is literally down to a bone-on-bone situation now.

And since then, he's posted 30 starts in 32 games.
Not a big problem at this point.

He's been getting by with pain management techniques - and the Rams are smart enough to understand that you can only do that so long. Expecting a guy to be productive for 3 more years in that condition is ridiculous.

Well that would only require one more year of production wouldn't it?
Seeing how he had the surgery in 2007.

I'd take the guy for 2 more seasons with the right contract.

[DaneMcCloud]

He was hurt last season

He's going to be hurt every season moving forward.

Degenerative knee damage will do that to a guy.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Here's what he can do it three years. Help in the development of Cassel and contribute to winning games therefore attracting better free agents in the future. Im not asking him to lead them to the Super Bowl, just to produce while we have no other options at WR (unless we're talking draft)

Explain to me how a guy who's running around like Barry fucking Bonds is going to be productive for three years.

[DaneMcCloud]

I'd take the guy for 2 more seasons with the right contract.

You also advocated for Khalif Barnes for quite some time.

What changed?

[DaneMcCloud]

Explain to me how a guy who's running around like Barry fucking Bonds is going to be productive for three years.

HGH heals all

[CoMoChief]

We have so much room under the cap why not bring him in for a couple seasons? He would be a good guy for our younger receivers to learn from.

exactly.

[Micjones]

Yeah, Mic.

Let's just toss a guy to the wayside that catches 60 balls and 6 TD's. That's awesome logic.

Who did that?
Certainly not Bradley.

He caught 30 balls. Scored 3 TD's.
Quick Scott! Better lock that guy up to a multi-year deal!

And as far as the Devery Henderson thing, you obviously did not understand that I was baiting Claythan throughout that entire thread, trying to get his goat.

It seemed to work. On you, too.

Sure you were.
:rolleyes:

Priceless.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Bringing in Vets, fine.

Bringing in 32 year old vets whose knees are ruined, not fine.

In the NFL, if you're a skill position player, when your knees go, you go. Period.

[CoMoChief]

He's going to be hurt every season moving forward.

Sweet, I've finally found a guy that can predict the future. :rolleyes:

[Micjones]

You also advocated for Khalif Barnes for quite some time.

What changed?

No I didn't. I advocated for Ray Willis.

Can I call you Minister of Misinformation?

I said I'd take Barnes, as a last ditch effort, because we have nothing there and I think it's silly to go into the season with A) McIntosh or B) A rookie, taken 2nd Round or lower, to protect your 14 million dollar man.

But yeah...
That's dumb.
:rolleyes:

I'm almost betting I could find a half-dozen posts where I said I WOULDN'T want Khalif Barnes.

I never spoke a word in favor of him until AFTER Willis was re-signed in Seattle.

[CoMoChief]

Somebody post a list a WR's they would rather have right now that are available, without the Chiefs having to give away picks.

[OnTheWarpath15]

No, sir, you don't.
You said a 5-year player with 963 career receiving yards is as good as a Hall of Fame WR who even in a down year is just 200 yards shy of WR A's career totals. Bradley has a 5 year stat line that looks like one of Holt's previous single season campaigns!

We're not comparing resumes here. Holt is in decline, and if you're too blind to see that, I can't help you. He's not the same player he was in even 2007. His knee has degenerated that quickly.



And since then, he's posted 30 starts in 32 games.
Not a big problem at this point.

And since when?

He had routine, unrelated surgery in 2007. In the middle of last season, they realized he had nearly no cartilage left in that knee. It wasn't that way in 2007.

The bone-on-bone is new to 2008, and isn't going to get better with time, only worse.




Well that would only require one more year of production wouldn't it?
Seeing how he had the surgery in 2007.

I'd take the guy for 2 more seasons with the right contract.

See above. He hasn't been running bone on bone for 2-3 years.

If his knee is as bad as the Rams are claiming it is, he's going to have a hard time passing a physical, much less being productive.

[Micjones]

Somebody post a list a WR's they would rather have right now that are available, without the Chiefs having to give away picks.

:popcorn:

This oughta be good.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Somebody post a list a WR's they would rather have right now that are available, without the Chiefs having to give away picks.

Someone post a list that shows that this is the last offseason and draft in NFL history, and therefore we can never add talent if we don't do so within the next two months.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Bringing in Vets, fine.

Bringing in 32 year old vets whose knees are ruined, not fine.

In the NFL, if you're a skill position player, when your knees go, you go. Period.

Signed,

Marshall Faulk

FYP.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Someone post a list that shows that this is the last offseason and draft in NFL history, and therefore we can never add talent if we don't do so within the next two months.

No shit.

[Micjones]

We're not comparing resumes here. Holt is in decline, and if you're too blind to see that, I can't help you. He's not the same player he was in even 2007. His knee has degenerated that quickly.

He's made 30 starts in 32 games FOLLOWING that surgery.

See above. He hasn't been running bone on bone for 2-3 years.

If his knee is as bad as the Rams are claiming it is, he's going to have a hard time passing a physical, much less being productive.

The trouble with his knee started in 2005, no?

[Micjones]

Someone post a list that shows that this is the last offseason and draft in NFL history, and therefore we can never add talent if we don't do so within the next two months.

I'm certainly not suggesting that we can't upgrade the team outside of signing Holt.

I've already advocated drafting a WR.

Hell I'm fine with us NOT signing Holt.
But Mark "fucking" Bradley CANNOT be the reason why!!!

[DaneMcCloud]

No I didn't. I advocated for Ray Willis.

I never spoke a word in favor of him until AFTER Willis was re-signed in Seattle.

Oh boy, here we go:

1/14/2009

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5392097&postcount=13

Sign:

Terrell Suggs DE Ravens
Jason Brown C Ravens
Khalif Barnes OT Jaguars

That fills four spots before the draft even begins.

O-line: Albert/Waters/Brown/Niswanger/Barnes

D-line: Hali/Dorsey/Tank/Suggs

Draft: QB/ILB/OLB/DE/O-line depth/WR

YES, YES, YES!!!

1/23/09

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=5418527&highlight=Barnes#post5418527

I'd gladly take Jason Brown and Khalif Barnes.
Move Niswanger back to Right Guard.

New Center, Right Guard, and Right Tackle.

What was that you were saying again?

I'm anxiously awaiting your retraction AND an apology.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

If you all are looking for low risk, high upside players, bring in someone like Reggie Williams. He was a big disappointment with Jax, but he's big, a great RZ target, and he at least has some upside, and he won't cost anything.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I'm certainly not suggesting that we can't upgrade the team outside of signing Holt.

I've already advocated drafting a WR.

Hell I'm fine with us NOT signing Holt.
But Mark "fucking" Bradley CANNOT be the reason why!!!

You are taking a short term view of a long term problem.

Torry Holt is not going to help this team in the future. Hell, he won't even help this team next year. Regardless of whether or not Mark Bradley is the #2 or #5 receiver, this team isn't winning shit next year, so stop with the idea that we need to patch every hole in one offseason, because it's completely unrealistic, and it's the same kind of half-assed approach Carl always used.

[OnTheWarpath15]

He's made 30 starts in 32 games FOLLOWING that surgery.



The trouble with his knee started in 2005, no?

Can you fucking read? Seriously?

The surgery in 2007 was a routine procedure. At that time, according to reports here in STL, collaborated by my source inside the organization, there was no reason to believe that his knee was degenerating.

It was early LAST year, that he had an MRI done because he was getting worse, not better in late 2007/early 2008.

That is when they found that he had very little cartilage left. NOW, he has almost none. Over the course of this past season, it's completely broken down, thus one of the reasons they cut him. The Rams have no reason to believe that he can be productive running bone on bone, especially after they saw his decline on the field in 2008. He was slower off the ball, and really struggled getting out of breaks.

They thought so little of him, that they passed on paying him a $1.5M roster bonus, and are counting on Donnie Avery and Keenan Burton to shore up the WR corp.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I'm certainly not suggesting that we can't upgrade the team outside of signing Holt.

I've already advocated drafting a WR.

Hell I'm fine with us NOT signing Holt.
But Mark "fucking" Bradley CANNOT be the reason why!!!

Mark Bradley isn't the reason why.

Torry Holt's knee grinding bone on bone is.

If you'd fucking read, you'd understand.

[DaneMcCloud]

collaborated by my source inside the organization

You've lost all credibility now.

The word you were looking for is "corroborated".

:loser:

[Micjones]

What was that you were saying again?

I'm anxiously awaiting your retraction AND an apology.

Keep waiting.

The first post was in reference to an entire FA campaign that included Suggs, Brown, AND Barnes. That is what evoked the initial response.

I didn't advocate for signing Barnes. Pestilence did.
I said I'd take it (the latter response). WITH Brown at Center (he signed elsewhere, yes?). That would make Right Tackle the least important position on the line regardless of who played there.

AND...
I wasn't aware Willis would be available in free agency.
At that time... KHALIF BARNES WAS probably the Chiefs most affordable FA upgrade at the RT spot in my mind.

Again, since Willis has been re-signed I said I'd take him OVER some rookie, some bum currently on the roster, or McIntosh. I stand by that...

I'm sorry... You were saying?

[evolve27]

Bring him in...along with Orlando Pace, Trent Green, Dre Bly, Derrick Brooks, Jason Taylor, Byron Leftwich, Roy Williams, Samari Rolle, and Jeff Garcia.

ROFL

[DaneMcCloud]

Keep waiting.

The first post was in reference to an entire FA campaign that included Suggs, Brown, AND Barnes. That is what evoked the initial response.

I didn't advocate for signing Barnes. Pestilence did.
I said I'd take it (the latter response). WITH Brown at Center (he signed elsewhere, yes?). That would make Right Tackle the least important position on the line regardless of who played there.

AND...
I wasn't aware Willis would be available in free agency.
At that time... KHALIF BARNES WAS probably the Chiefs most affordable FA upgrade at the RT spot in my mind.

Again, since Willis has been re-signed I said I'd take him OVER some rookie, some bum currently on the roster, or McIntosh. I stand by that...

I'm sorry... You were saying?

Wow.

NOW you're going to change the story?

Come on, Mic. It's right there for everyone to see.

Man up.

It's not a big deal.

[CoMoChief]

People who think Torry Holt wouldnt improve our below par WR core are ****in nuts. The guy is one of the best route runners in the league.

[CoMoChief]

Can you ****ing read? Seriously?

The surgery in 2007 was a routine procedure. At that time, according to reports here in STL, collaborated by my source inside the organization, there was no reason to believe that his knee was degenerating.

It was early LAST year, that he had an MRI done because he was getting worse, not better in late 2007/early 2008.

That is when they found that he had very little cartilage left. NOW, he has almost none. Over the course of this past season, it's completely broken down, thus one of the reasons they cut him. The Rams have no reason to believe that he can be productive running bone on bone, especially after they saw his decline on the field in 2008. He was slower off the ball, and really struggled getting out of breaks.

They thought so little of him, that they passed on paying him a $1.5M roster bonus, and are counting on Donnie Avery and Keenan Burton to shore up the WR corp.

The rams front office is also notorious for being extremely retarded.

[DaneMcCloud]

Keep waiting.



Should I go back to 2007?

Should I?

Should I?

Well, okay.

Only problem is... We're stuck with McIntosh.
I'd take Barnes to shore up the right side...

But I'd rather move McIntosh over and find a franchise LT in the Draft.

[Micjones]

Uh yeah... I can read.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

People who think Torry Holt wouldnt improve our below par WR core are fuckin nuts. The guy is the best route runner in the league.

Let me go take a fuckin' sledgehammer to Usain Bolt's knee and have him run the 100 since he's the fastest man on Earth and all.

[Micjones]

But Bradley is a POS and Holt has a few years left.


Read that one.



Torry Holt now? He IS Mark Bradley.

Except older, slower and more expensive.

Read this one too.

Produces what?

As a WR1 last year, he produced at the same level as our WR2.


And this one...

Yet Bradley's projected stats, as a WR2, would be almost identical to Holt, who was the WR1 for STL.

Yep.

[DaneMcCloud]

Uh yeah... I can read.

Apparently, not with comprehension:

I never spoke a word in favor of him until AFTER Willis was re-signed in Seattle.

I'd gladly take Jason Brown and Khalif Barnes.
Move Niswanger back to Right Guard.

New Center, Right Guard, and Right Tackle.

How many times should I post this until you acknowledge your error?

[Micjones]

Wow.

NOW you're going to change the story?

Come on, Mic. It's right there for everyone to see.

Man up.

It's not a big deal.

There's nothing to man up to.

You misquoted the first thread you linked.
I wasn't the poster who advocated signing Barnes.
You conveniently left that part out.

And again, I said I'd take a line with Barnes on the End with Brown at C.
And I said this before I knew Willis would be available.
And I've said since that Barnes is not the best option, but that I'd take him over what we have or over a 3rd Round RT.

[Micjones]

Apparently, not with comprehension:





How many times should I post this until you acknowledge your error?

Post it a 100 more times if you'd like.
Do we have Jason Brown at Center?
No...

We have Niswanger at Center. And no Right Guard.
So that would be Niswanger - Undetermined - Barnes.
Surely that's the same.
:rolleyes:

[Micjones]

Should I go back to 2007?

Should I?

Should I?

Well, okay.

Post the link.

[DaneMcCloud]

Post it a 100 more times if you'd like.
Do we have Jason Brown at Center?
No...

We have Niswanger at Center. And no Right Guard.
So that would be Niswanger - Undetermined - Barnes.
Surely that's the same.
:rolleyes:

Come on, Mic.

I asked you when you changed your opinion about Barnes.

No answer.

Then, you said it was AFTER Willis was re-signed, who you said you didn't know was available.

Then you said you NEVER said a word about signing Barnes, yet there are two posts and one reply where you indicated you'd like the idea.

This is silly. You were wrong about being wrong. It's no biggie.

[Micjones]

Come on, Mic.

I asked you when you changed your opinion about Barnes.

No answer.

It's pathetic that you'd go to these lengths to make a point.

Can we acknowledge the fact that Pestilence advocating the signing of Barnes?

Can we acknowledge that I said I'd take Barnes at RT IF Brown were in the middle?

You can't get around either of those truths.
Why you keep trying is beyond me.

Our offensive line is infinitely better with Brown/Niswanger/Barnes than it would be with Niswanger/Undetermined/Barnes. Or are you going to argue that it wouldn't be?

I mean really...

Then, you said it was AFTER Willis was re-signed, who you said you didn't know was available.

I did not personally advocate the signing of Khalif Barnes until after Ray Willis was re-signed by Seattle.
You CAN'T spin that.

Then you said you NEVER said a word about signing Barnes, yet there are two posts and one reply where you indicated you'd like the idea.

This is silly. You were wrong about being wrong. It's no biggie.

Keep scoring the fight all on your own if you'd like Winky...
Makes no difference. You haven't proven a thing.

Again, my first response was to an ENTIRE off-season campaign that included Barnes.
For the record it also included Terrell Suggs and Jason Brown (neither of which have contracts with this franchise). Another convenient oversight on your part.

The second? My approval of an offense line where Barnes would likely be the least significant member of it.

If that's me changing my tune on Barnes and advocating his signing...
You're smart.

Oh and I'm still waiting for you to link the older post I made about Barnes.
If it's from 2007... I'm guessing it was before he gave up more than a half-dozen sacks and committed 9 penalties all by his lonesome. But that shouldn't factor into my evaluation of him.
:rolleyes:

[chiefs1111]

yeah lets bring in a WR who is on his last leg,sounds great too me and hey while were at it, lets bring in Bruce Smith to help our pass rush.

[FloridaMan88]

If the price is right, Holt would be a great addition to the Chiefs. Besides the fact he can still play, he'd provide the leadership the Chiefs are seriously lacking at WR.

[OnTheWarpath15]

You've lost all credibility now.

The word you were looking for is "corroborated".

:loser:

I actually had it that way, and spell check popped up on me.

Oh well.

:D

[OnTheWarpath15]

The rams front office is also notorious for being extremely retarded.

Uh, yeah.

Before Devaney and Spaguolo arrived, I'd agree.

This offseason, they've made all the right moves.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Read that one.



Read this one too.



And this one...



Yep.

Looks like a bunch of factual statments, and one where you purposely left the rolling eyes smiley out to try to make your point.

And?

[Micjones]

Looks like a bunch of factual statments, and one where you purposely left the rolling eyes smiley out to try to make your point.

And?

Just thought I'd make it clear that I haven't misconstrued your commentary.

[DaneMcCloud]

Just thought I'd make it clear that I haven't misconstrued your commentary.

No.

You only misconstrue your own.

I just LOVE how I quote you three different times stating that Barnes would be a good acquisition, yet you deny you ever made that statement until later.

I'm sure you're a great guy to hang out with and I'm not trying to make anything personal.

It just seems odd that you disclaim what you've clearly stated.

[DaneMcCloud]

I actually had it that way, and spell check popped up on me.

Oh well.

:D

The spell check on Chiefsplanet is a True Fan.

[Micjones]

No.

You only misconstrue your own.

I guess a better idea would be to pretend I only made a statement to rile another poster up.
:rolleyes:

"I didn't really mean Devery Henderson was a possession receiver."
ROFL

I just LOVE how I quote you three different times stating that Barnes would be a good acquisition, yet you deny you ever made that statement until later.

You haven't quoted me advocating his signing at all.
You referenced my response to an entire off-season campaign that included two other players who will not play within 100 miles of Arrowhead Stadium this year.

You then made it a point to latch on to a secondary response where I said I'd take Barnes as Right Tackle ALONG WITH Jason Brown. Hell I would!!!

Unless you're going to argue that that wouldn't be a significant upgrade over Niswanger at Center, a complete unknown at Guard, and Barnes on the end... This is ridiculous.

It just seems odd that you disclaim what you've clearly stated.

Doesn't seem odd to me at all. You're twisting the truth.

And you STILL HAVEN'T posted the link for my 2007 reference to Barnes.
Which OBVIOUSLY came before he shit down his leg this year.
But I guess that's not good enough to change someone's mind about a player.

Performance is overrated.
ROFL

[Wilson8]

I think you guys can argue the merits of bringing in Torry, as-well-as other things, for 1,000 more posts but...

The Chiefs could improve with an upgrade at the wide receiver position.

First step - Kansas City can review game film to determine Torry Holt's value to the team. Probably one or two scouts can determine that pretty quickly.

Second step - The Kansas City Chiefs can contact Gregory Williams, Torry Holt's agent, and try and establish what type of contract they are expecting and how long Torry expects to play.

Third step - If money expectations, and interest are there, for the Chiefs and Torry, Dr. Joe Wackerle and a orthopedist like Dr. James Andrews can give Mr. Holt a complete examination of the knee to determine the health and condition of the knee.

If player value, Torry's contract expectations and health ALL look promising, then the Chiefs should consider making a deal.

If any of these items are questionable, the Chiefs move on and look at other ways to improve at the receiver position.

[KCrockaholic]

Bradley's a better WR than Holt right now.

This.....is....sad....People on this board :rolleyes:

[CaliforniaChief]

I think you guys can argue the merits of bringing in Torry, as-well-as other things, for 1,000 more posts but...

The Chiefs could improve with an upgrade at the wide receiver position.

First step - Kansas City can review game film to determine Torry Holt's value to the team. Probably one or two scouts can determine that pretty quickly.

Second step - The Kansas City Chiefs can contact Gregory Williams, Torry Holt's agent, and try and establish what type of contract they are expecting and how long Torry expects to play.

Third step - If money expectations, and interest are there, for the Chiefs and Torry, Dr. Joe Wackerle and a orthopedist like Dr. James Andrews can give Mr. Holt a complete examination of the knee to determine the health and condition of the knee.

If player value, Torry's contract expectations and health ALL look promising, then the Chiefs should consider making a deal.

If any of these items are questionable, the Chiefs move on and look at other ways to improve at the receiver position.

Right, because the Rams probably haven't looked at his medical information.

[DaneMcCloud]

You haven't quoted me advocating his signing at all.

For the last time:

Sign:

Terrell Suggs DE Ravens
Jason Brown C Ravens
Khalif Barnes OT Jaguars

Mic:

YES, YES, YES!!!

If you didn't want Barnes, you would have said "YES, YES, NO!!".

By the way, you quoted Pestilence, I just can't quote both.

Mic:

I'd gladly take Jason Brown and Khalif Barnes.
Move Niswanger back to Right Guard.

New Center, Right Guard, and Right Tackle.

You'd "gladly take...Barnes". Yet, you're telling us you didn't advocate signing him?

Mic, circa 2007:

Only problem is... We're stuck with McIntosh.
I'd take Barnes to shore up the right side...

But I'd rather move McIntosh over and find a franchise LT in the Draft.


Now how is ANYONE supposed to construe from these quotes that you DID NOT advocate the signing of Barnes BEFORE Willis was re-signed?

[Wilson8]

Right, because the Rams probably haven't looked at his medical information.

Holt had a $1.25 million roster bonus due March 17, and the Rams didn't plan to keep him at his $8 million salary. As they did earlier this week with left tackle Orlando Pace, the Rams parted ways with Holt.

"The Rams will forever be grateful for the way Torry Holt represented the Rams on the field and in the community," Rams owner Chip Rosenbloom said. "He is an All Pro in every sense of the word. Over the past 10 seasons, Torry has proven himself to be one of the finest wide receivers in league history. This is a difficult decision because Torry has meant so much to the organization. In my mind and for all Rams fans, Torry will always be a Ram and we wish him and his family nothing but the best as they move forward."

The releases of Holt and Pace cleared out $14 million of cap room for the Rams. Holt, a seven-time Pro Bowl selection, ranks 11th on the league's all-time reception list with 869 catches. He started 147 games in 10 seasons.

Senior writer John Clayton covers the NFL for ESPN.com.

[Wilson8]

I'm not arguing for or against Torry Holt being picked up by the Chiefs.

My points -

The Chiefs need to improve at the WR position.

A Chiefs should look at free agency as an option. Pick up the player if the value is right.

Use the draft picks wisely and select WR if the value is right.

If value is not right in free agency and in the draft, KC stays with what they have, try to develop them the best they can and see what happens next year.

[Micjones]

If you didn't want Barnes, you would have said "YES, YES, NO!!".

By the way, you quoted Pestilence, I just can't quote both.

You got me...
:rolleyes:

Odd that you never bothered to quote Pestilence earlier.
I'm certain that was just an oversight on your part though.
Even more curious when you gloss over the fact that there's a significant difference in what the offensive line would be under this scenario.

I get it though. You think Devery Henderson's a "possession receiver" so I understand why you wouldn't see the difference in having the most coveted interior Offensive Lineman available in Free Agency this year, next to the most serviceable Right Guard the Chiefs have had since Will Shields retired, next to Barnes on the end

AND...

Having an ineffective Center, next to a complete unknown at Guard, next to Barnes on the end.

You don't get that.

I've made my peace with that.
To people who know football though...
There's a man-sized hole in that argument.

You'd "gladly take...Barnes". Yet, you're telling us you didn't advocate signing him?

I didn't. It clearly wasn't my idea. You've admitted as much.

And again, at 8:06pm Central Standard Time I'd take Barnes on the end with Jason Brown at Center.
Who wouldn't?

Mic, circa 2007:

Again, this quote came before the 2008 season where he surrendered 7.5 sacks and committed 9 penalties.

But don't let that get in the way of your argument.

[Mecca]

Ok...if anyone really thinks Mark Bradley is better than Holt I feel bad for them.

[Rausch]

Ok...if anyone really thinks Mark Bradley is better than Holt I feel bad for them.

Barry Saunders is now a free agent.

Clearly, looking at the numbers, he's miles ahead of Kolby Smith.

[Mecca]

Barry Saunders is now a free agent.

Clearly, looking at the numbers, he's miles ahead of Kolby Smith.

I'm sorry there are alot of things people can argue but Mark Bradley has finished basically every year of his career on IR and has never been more than modestly productive.

[DeezNutz]

I'm sorry there are alot of things people can argue but Mark Bradley has finished basically every year of his career on IR and has never been more than modestly productive.

He's one notch higher up the Brodie Croyle ladder.

[Rausch]

I'm sorry there are alot of things people can argue but Mark Bradley has finished basically every year of his career on IR and has never been more than modestly productive.

So you want to argue that it's better to chug piss than eat $#it?

That's your whole argument?...:hail:

[RippedmyFlesh]

I'm sorry there are alot of things people can argue but Mark Bradley has finished basically every year of his career on IR and has never been more than modestly productive.
compared to webb darling sippio...modestly productive
was an upgrade at the time

[RedThat]

I wonder why the Rams released him?

Injuries to knee prolly slowed him down? He had an off year last year, but if you look at him other then last year he's been damn productive.

I don't think 32 years old is old for a WR. If you ask me about any other position like RB or LB Id say yeah. but injuries are a concern for sure.

Id love to have a guy like him, but I just don't think the Chiefs will pursue Holt. I don't think it's the Patriots way of doing things. We're signing low priced FA, to build strong special teams and good depth first. I think Pioli is not going to sign high priced FA's and will build this team through the draft.

[RedThat]

Ok...if anyone really thinks Mark Bradley is better than Holt I feel bad for them.

I agree.

[RedThat]

I'm sorry there are alot of things people can argue but Mark Bradley has finished basically every year of his career on IR and has never been more than modestly productive.

Every time he played this year, he showed something. It's just too bad he can't stay healthy? I really think he can be productive out there if he can manage to play a full season.

[Mecca]

Lets see Tory Holts worst year is still light years better than Bradleys best year and damn near equal to his entire career and we've got people saying they're the same?

Holt isn't worth 8 mill a year anymore but to act like he's no better than what we got now is pretty out there.

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

ok hamas...picking up Torry Holt for a cheap price is less rational than drafting Mark Sanchez...paying two QBs assloads of money....and then trading one of them for watered-down draft value---therefore taking a shit on the third overall pick or 34th with the former being more likely. All of this while there is no guarantee that they both won't fail.

[Thig Lyfe]

I don't see why you wouldn't bring him in at the vet minimum in case he still has something.

[Wilson8]

WHAT NEXT FOR HOLT?
Posted by Mike Florio on March 13, 2009, 5:15 p.m.
Former Rams receiver Torry Holt finally got what he wanted — a release.

But what next for the possible Hall of Famer, who’s a whopping 3.5 years younger than Terrell Owens?

The fact that the Rams squatted on Holt’s rights until March 13 kept him from getting a crack at the open market when the money was flowing. On one hand, his agent could have/should have insisted on a February 27 trigger for the $1.25 million roster bonus due March 18, which would have forced the team to move him out sooner.

On the other hand, those glowing comments from ownership about Holt would have been a lot more meaningful to us if the Rams had cut Holt before free agency launched — like the Bucs did with multiple veterans.

As a result, teams like the Seahawks and the Bengals and the Bills don’t have a need for Holt.

And, suddenly, a team like the Cardinals might have a viable short-term replacement for Anquan Boldin if they choose to trade him.

Who else could be interested? (And we emphasize in this regard the word “could.”) The Vikings chased receiver T.J. Houshmandzadeh, so maybe they’d be interested in a guy who spent his career playing in a dome. The Niners need wideouts, and it would be interesting to see him reunited with Isaac Bruce a decade after the won a Super Bowl in St. Louis.

The Jets should be interested — but then again they need a quarterback first.

The Jaguars have been longing for a receiver who can actually receive, and the Ravens would surely like to upgrade, now that they have a quarterback of the present, and future.

Health will be a key threshold issue for Holt. Though he hasn’t missed any playing time, he has had periodic knee issues. And, in 2009, Holt had less than 1,000 receiving yards for only the second time in his career, and he generated the lowest yards-per-catch in ten NFL seasons.

Still, if Terrell Owens is worth $6.5 million for a year, we tend to think that Holt is worth at least that much. And he should get another job as quickly as he wants one.

profootballtalk.com

[Hootie]

I don't want Holt. Arthritic knee, big name, will still want a decent contract...no thanks. Let someone else overpay for him.

I'm ok with adding veterans, but we don't need to overpay for a guy like Holt...he'll probably still get decent #1 money from someone...plus I think the Titans are going to sign him anyways.

Too many ??? on Holt if you ask me.

[Hootie]

I don't see why you wouldn't bring him in at the vet minimum in case he still has something.

Yeah, if that is the case...but I highly doubt he is going to sign anywhere for the veteran minimum...and if he does, it will probably be with a contender, not the Chiefs.

[DaneMcCloud]

You got me...


I never spoke a word in favor of him until AFTER Willis was re-signed in Seattle.

I think I proved that wasn't true.

Not true AT ALL.

But go ahead and lie to yourself.

Your statements prove otherwise.

[Halfcan]

pass on Holt

[DeezNutz]

If he could be had on the cheap, it would an outstanding signing.

But he's going to want legit. money.

No thanks.

[ArrowheadMagic]

If he could be had on the cheap, it would an outstanding signing.

But he's going to want legit. money.

No thanks.

Some team will be willing to give him #1 money. But for the right price, why wouldnt he be a good 2nd or 3rd option? If you have Bowe, TG and Holt on offense, why wouldnt this be an upgrade?

[DeezNutz]

Some team will be willing to give him #1 money. But for the right price, why wouldnt he be a good 2nd or 3rd option? If you have Bowe, TG and Holt on offense, why wouldnt this be an upgrade?

If Holt were healthy, it absolutely would be.

But that's a big "if."

For the right price, I'd love to add him to the mix, but I'm sure he'll want one more big paycheck. Can't blame him, since I would, too.

For the Chiefs, probably a pass.

[Micjones]

I think I proved that wasn't true.

Not true AT ALL.

But go ahead and lie to yourself.

Your statements prove otherwise.

Sure they do Dane. Keep telling yourself that.
At some point... You might actually start believing it.

Because God knows Brown, Niswanger (at a position where he had success), and Barnes ISN'T infinitely better than...

Niswanger (at a position where he's struggling), no answer at Guard, and Barnes on the end.

ROFL

[DaneMcCloud]

If Holt were healthy, it absolutely would be.

But that's a big "if."

For the right price, I'd love to add him to the mix, but I'm sure he'll want one more big paycheck. Can't blame him, since I would, too.

For the Chiefs, probably a pass.

He has an arthritic knee that's nearly bone on bone.

He would be a horrible signing.

[ArrowheadMagic]

If Holt were healthy, it absolutely would be.

But that's a big "if."

For the right price, I'd love to add him to the mix, but I'm sure he'll want one more big paycheck. Can't blame him, since I would, too.

For the Chiefs, probably a pass.


Most likely, yes. But if he is willing to take 2nd WR money, and passes your physical... its an upgrade. He is no less gimpy than Bradley at this point. Is there a WR in the draft that you know will be better? Worth a talk? yes, happening? no.

[DeezNutz]

He has an arthritic knee that's nearly bone on bone.

He would be a horrible signing.

Well, obviously you'd have to trust your medical people.

If it's indeed that bad, I'm sure that any competent staff would say, "No fucking way."

[DaneMcCloud]

Most likely, yes. But if he is willing to take 2nd WR money, and passes your physical... its an upgrade. He is no less gimpy than Bradley at this point. Is there a WR in the draft that you know will be better? Worth a talk? yes, happening? no.

Better than Holt in 2009?

I'd hope so. The guy had 60 catches and three TD's in 16 games.

Dwayne Bowe playing opposite Tony Gonzalez while having great QB's like Damon Huard, Brokie Croyle and Tyler Thigpen put up much better numbers.

[DaneMcCloud]

Well, obviously you'd have to trust your medical people.

If it's indeed that bad, I'm sure that any competent staff would say, "No fucking way."

According to OTWP58 (who is friends with a Rams insider) says that's why they cut him.

They don't think he'll ever be productive again.

[wild1]

to me it's really not worth talking about. sure, it would be worth a risk for a cheap deal, but some team is going to take a chance on him and pay more than he's worth. i dont see any scenario where you get good value for the money.

[ArrowheadMagic]

Better than Holt in 2009?

I'd hope so. The guy had 60 catches and three TD's in 16 games.

Dwayne Bowe playing opposite Tony Gonzalez while having great QB's like Damon Huard, Brokie Croyle and Tyler Thigpen put up much better numbers.


Solid #2 WR numbers. Would you expect more out of anyone else? With Bowe and TG to throw to? Will Franklin isnt coming close to those numbers. Who on the current roster beats that?

[DaneMcCloud]

Sure they do Dane. Keep telling yourself that.
At some point... You might actually start believing it.

Because God knows Brown, Niswanger (at a position where he had success), and Barnes ISN'T infinitely better than...

Niswanger (at a position where he's struggling), no answer at Guard, and Barnes on the end.



Jesus Fucking Christ.

That's NOT the argument.

You said you NEVER said a word about Barnes.

You DID.

PERIOD.

And FWIW, he fucking sucks. He's D-Sack lite.

[DaneMcCloud]

Solid #2 WR numbers. Would you expect more out of anyone else? With Bowe and TG to throw to? Will Franklin isnt coming close to those numbers. Who on the current roster beats that?

Bradley had 30 catches and 3 TD's in 8 games.

Double that.

And he just turned 27.

AND he doesn't have an arthritic knee.

[ArrowheadMagic]

Bradley had 30 catches and 3 TD's in 8 games.

Double that.

And he just turned 27.

AND he doesn't have an arthritic knee.


But gets hurt every year.

[DeezNutz]

According to OTWP58 (who is friends with a Rams insider) says that's why they cut him.

They don't think he'll ever be productive again.

I know OTW is a much better Rams source, so I'm not questioning what he's hearing.

Still, teams fuck up occasionally. Roaf being evidence A.

Probably not the case here, but worth a look-see. No big loss to pay for a plane ticket.

[ArrowheadMagic]

Holt at least can play 16 games

[DaneMcCloud]

But gets hurt every year.

:eek:

Holt's INJURED NOW. Arthritic knee. Bone on Bone.

What do you not get?

And even IF Bradley's "hurt", his production would still be the same as Holt's at age 33.

For millions and millions less.

[DaneMcCloud]

I know OTW is a much better Rams source, so I'm not questioning what he's hearing.

Still, teams fuck up occasionally. Roaf being evidence A.

Probably not the case here, but worth a look-see. No big loss to pay for a plane ticket.

With all due respect, if Spagnoulo decided to dump Holt, I'd take his word for it.

The Rams were a mess.

But I think they're heading in the right direction.

[Micjones]

Jesus Fucking Christ.

That's NOT the argument.

ROFL

Riiiiiight...

You said you NEVER said a word about Barnes.

You DID.

PERIOD.

And FWIW, he fucking sucks. He's D-Sack lite.

I've spoken the man's name before certainly, but I've never spoken in favor of the Chiefs acquiring him. Not until recently. That was someone else's suggestion. You didn't bother to make that apparent from the outset. Wonder why... Haha...

I merely said, "sure I'll take it WITH Brown in the middle" (and Suggs, neither of which will play here). That improves three different positions on the line.

Signing Barnes all by his lonesome (something I haven't suggested until recently after my guy was gone) is quite a bit different.

It's okay Dane... You really did try to trip me up.
Didn't work. I stepped over your leg and kept it moving.
Maybe next time...

[DaneMcCloud]

Riiiiiight...


You must be a lead paint eating Drano baby.

Or just retarded.

For Fuck's Sake, Mic.

What the hell. Keep going.

You're only embarrassing yourself.

[DeezNutz]

With all due respect, if Spagnoulo decided to dump Holt, I'd take his word for it.

The Rams were a mess.

But I think they're heading in the right direction.

You don't think $$$ had anything to do with the move?

Just saying...

Overall, I agree with you. But I'd exhaust all of my options, and I wouldn't believe anyone other than "my guys." That's just good business.

[DaneMcCloud]

You don't think $$$ had anything to do with the move?

Just saying...

Overall, I agree with you. But I'd exhaust all of my options, and I wouldn't believe anyone other than "my guys." That's just good business.

Nope.

What's a $1 million dollar workout bonus for a healthy Holt?

[kysirsoze]

I just can't believe how long the Holt vs. Bradley arguement has been able to last. Let's go for at least 300 posts!

[DeezNutz]

Nope.

What's a $1 million dollar workout bonus for a healthy Holt?

If that's indeed all there is too it, I agree.

That's cheap money in the NFL world.

But I'm guessing they would also have wanted to renegotiate his current deal because of declining production, and if he didn't want to, well obviously you know the drill.

[wild1]

you guys need to switch to decaf.

[ArrowheadMagic]

:eek:

Holt's INJURED NOW. Arthritic knee. Bone on Bone.

What do you not get?

And even IF Bradley's "hurt", his production would still be the same as Holt's at age 33.

For millions and millions less.


Ok.. a guy on a bone on bone knee, played more games.....was older... than bradley.... and not cut in season by the team that drafted him.... but yet he is a better option?

[DaneMcCloud]

Ok.. a guy on a bone on bone knee, played more games.....was older... than bradley.... and not cut in season by the team that drafted him.... but yet he is a better option?

At this time, yes.

What about "bone on bone" and "arthritis" do you not understand?

[Micjones]

You must be a lead paint eating Drano baby.

Or just retarded.

For Fuck's Sake, Mic.

What the hell. Keep going.

You're only embarrassing yourself.

Yep...
Drano baby realizes that Devery Henderson isn't a possession receiver though.
What's that say?
ROFL

I'm just having fun with you now dude.
That horrible ass argument of yours unraveled itself about 3 pages ago.
I'm done. No worries...
:D

[wild1]

Ok.. a guy on a bone on bone knee, played more games.....was older... than bradley.... and not cut in season by the team that drafted him.... but yet he is a better option?

i dont know the true state of his injury, but if your knee really is bone on bone, you might as well retire.

[ArrowheadMagic]

i dont know the true state of his injury, but if your knee really is bone on bone, you might as well retire.


Doubt thats the true story. It didnt happen this off season.. Dude played 16 games last year.. Unless you think it happened just this last month?

[kysirsoze]

i dont know the true state of his injury, but if your knee really is bone on bone, you might as well retire and use your millions to get a robotic super leg.

FYP.

[ArrowheadMagic]

Would he have played 16 games last year if he had a bone on bone knee situation?

[DaneMcCloud]

I'm done. No worries...
:D

Here either.

Have a great night!

[wild1]

Doubt thats the true story. It didnt happen this off season.. Dude played 16 games last year.. Unless you think it happened just this last month?

based on his production it may have been in bad shape last year.

[DaneMcCloud]

Doubt thats the true story. It didnt happen this off season.. Dude played 16 games last year.. Unless you think it happened just this last month?

Look, there are people here on the 'Planet with connections.

Connections in the sports world, the world of finance, entertainment, etc.

These sources have proven to be solid time and time again.

If you actually READ the entire thread, you would have read that one of these people revealed information about Holt and why he was cut.

[ArrowheadMagic]

Look, there are people here on the 'Planet with connections.

Connections in the sports world, the world of finance, entertainment, etc.

These sources have proven to be solid time and time again.

If you actually READ the entire thread, you would have read that one of these people revealed information about Holt and why he was cut.


Sorry, dont believe Holt played 16 games last year on a bone on bone knee. The planets "sources" might be extensive, but think there's more to it. Hell, Bradley couldnt even finish out the half season he had with the Chiefs.


What in Bradley's history makes you think he is playing 16 games in a season? Bone on Bone knee guy could. actually according to you he did last year, why didnt Bradley?

[Chiefaholic]

For a reasonable contract, why not? Offer him 4-5 million per and see if he bites on a 2-3 year contract. Adding Holt opposite Bowe would spread the field and really open up the offense. Let Bradley and Franklin fight it out for the #3 spot and eventually take over the #2 position. Adding Holt to the offense would have similiar results to adding Kennison a few years back.

[ArrowheadMagic]

For a reasonable contract, why not? Offer him 4-5 million per and see if he bites on a 2-3 year contract. Adding Holt opposite Bowe would spread the field and really open up the offense. Let Bradley and Franklin fight it out for the #3 spot and eventually take over the #2 position. Adding Holt to the offense would have similiar results to adding Kennison a few years back.


Yeah because giving a young QB more options to throw to can't be good. Oh wait.... lets bank on a guy who hasnt played 16 games in a season.... and while young ...27... was cut by the team that drafted him... mid season no less. For the right price .. yes .... if he wants #1 WR money.... no.

[Mecca]

This is my view, bone on bone or not Torry Holt rarely misses games, Mark Bradley is more likely to miss a game than play.

That's just the history of those players. If you're going to use Mark Bradley as the standard you can't really hit the other guy with "well he has a bad knee and may become injury prone. Because Bradley already has a bad knee and is injury prone.

Tory Holts "bad year" still nearly equaled Mark Bradleys entire career.

[ArrowheadMagic]

This is my view, bone on bone or not Torry Holt rarely misses games, Mark Bradley is more likely to miss a game than play.

That's just the history of those players. If you're going to use Mark Bradley as the standard you can't really hit the other guy with "well he has a bad knee and may become injury prone. Because Bradley already has a bad knee and is injury prone.

Tory Holts "bad year" still nearly equaled Mark Bradleys entire career.


Depends on what Holt wants for a contract. If its really a bone on bone injury.... it didnt just happen this off season. he played on it last year and played 16 games with 60 catches..... Question is.... when did this bone on bone injury happen? Price has to be right of course, but he isnt a horrible 3rd option to Bowe and TG.

[Mecca]

Depends on what Holt wants for a contract. If its really a bone on bone injury.... it didnt just happen this off season. he played on it last year and played 16 games with 60 catches..... Question is.... when did this bone on bone injury happen? Price has to be right of course, but he isnt a horrible 3rd option to Bowe and TG.

The truth to this scenario is Torry Holt is getting old but he can still play a role, odds are he's going to want to sign with a good team if he's taking a pay cut by a significant degree.

[ArrowheadMagic]

The truth to this scenario is Torry Holt is getting old but he can still play a role, odds are he's going to want to sign with a good team if he's taking a pay cut by a significant degree.

Hence the ... if he is willing to take #2 WR money...... someone will offer him close to #1 money... to act like he wouldnt be a good #3 option for any young QB is fucking insane. Depends on what he is looking for money wise. His production on a bone on bone knee out weights anything our #2 WR did.

[Mecca]

Hence the ... if he is willing to take #2 WR money...... someone will offer him close to #1 money... to act like he wouldnt be a good #3 option for any young QB is fucking insane. Depends on what he is looking for money wise. His production on a bone on bone knee out weights anything our #2 WR did.

Well frankly we suck complete balls at the WR position, we have 1 guy in a league that now has teams routinely going 4 and 5 deep.

[ArrowheadMagic]

Well frankly we suck complete balls at the WR position, we have 1 guy in a league that now has teams routinely going 4 and 5 deep.

We are 2 deep.... TG... Would it not be smart to get a young QB as many weapons as we could? So if bone on bone Holt is playing 16 games, he seems more of a threat than half season Bradley. heh, but depends on the price..... to not even bring the guy in for a physical or talk to him about his money wants is dumb.... fucking retarded. Doesnt mean we sign him... but he is better than our current #2 wr.

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

The truth to this scenario is Torry Holt is getting old but he can still play a role, odds are he's going to want to sign with a good team if he's taking a pay cut by a significant degree.

What?! no good team would ever pay a 32 year old WR with a nagging injury... TO THE BONE!

[KCrockaholic]

This is my view, bone on bone or not Torry Holt rarely misses games, Mark Bradley is more likely to miss a game than play.

That's just the history of those players. If you're going to use Mark Bradley as the standard you can't really hit the other guy with "well he has a bad knee and may become injury prone. Because Bradley already has a bad knee and is injury prone.

Tory Holts "bad year" still nearly equaled Mark Bradleys entire career.

couldnt agree more on this one.

[DaneMcCloud]

This is my view, bone on bone or not Torry Holt rarely misses games, Mark Bradley is more likely to miss a game than play.

That's just the history of those players. If you're going to use Mark Bradley as the standard you can't really hit the other guy with "well he has a bad knee and may become injury prone. Because Bradley already has a bad knee and is injury prone.

Tory Holts "bad year" still nearly equaled Mark Bradleys entire career.


Who gives a shit about Bradley?

This is about Holt.

He's not the same player.

He has an arthritic knee. There are reports that the tissue is gone. Bone on bone.

I don't give a flying fuck about his prior production.

Is this a guy you're seriously considering? At this point in his career?

This seems extremely out of character for you, Mecca.

[DaneMcCloud]

couldnt agree more on this one.

True Fan who ignores facts.

What else is new?

[DaneMcCloud]

but he is better than our current #2 wr.

Yeah, because the Chiefs are soooooooooooo close to winning in 2009 and a damages Holt would push them over the edge.

To the 'Ship!

[Mecca]

Uh it depends what you're paying him, Torry Holt is a class guy who is good to have on your team.

Would it bother me to sign him, no not really seeing as the Chiefs probably won't be drafting a WR this year and as I said we literally have 1 guy worth a shit at that position. 2 years out of Holt wouldn't bother me you have to stop gap sometimes especially when you go out and make moves that say "this guy is our QB" with Cassel and all that.

[DaneMcCloud]

Would it bother me to sign him, no not really seeing as the Chiefs probably won't be drafting a WR this year and as I said we literally have 1 guy worth a shit at that position. 2 years out of Holt wouldn't bother me you have to stop gap sometimes especially when you go out and make moves that say "this guy is our QB" with Cassel and all that.

How in the world do you think that you're going to get 2 years out of a 33 year old with an arthritic knee and no meniscus?

[ArrowheadMagic]

Yeah, because the Chiefs are soooooooooooo close to winning in 2009 and a damages Holt would push them over the edge.

To the 'Ship!


Who said that? who's better? Holt or bradley?

[ArrowheadMagic]

How in the world do you think that you're going to get 2 years out of a 33 year old with an arthritic knee and no meniscus?

That would be more games than Bradley gave you.

[Mecca]

Anquan Boldin doesn't have a meniscus....

Not everyone's bodies are the same, he may play 5 more years for all we know. This whole idea that we can't sign any FA's at all is getting a little out of hand.

[ArrowheadMagic]

Anquan Boldin doesn't have a meniscus....

Not everyone's bodies are the same, he may play 5 more years for all we know. This whole idea that we can't sign any FA's at all is getting a little out of hand.
naw... who's better.... Holt or Bradley?

[DaneMcCloud]

Anquan Boldin doesn't have a meniscus....

Not everyone's bodies are the same, he may play 5 more years for all we know. This whole idea that we can't sign any FA's at all is getting a little out of hand.

Have you read the thread? Did you read OTWP's prognosis from the Rams doctors?

It's not about NOT signing older free agents.

It's about Holt's health, or lack thereof.

[DaneMcCloud]

Who said that? who's better? Holt or bradley?


Going into 2009?

Bradley.

What's your fucking point anyway, Sport?

[Mecca]

I bet a 1 legged Tory Holt can put up a better year than Mark Bradley...

For all of these supposed issues Holt has he's pretty good about not missing games, Bradley can't say that.

[DaneMcCloud]

I bet a 1 legged Tory Holt can put up a better year than Mark Bradley...

For all of these supposed issues Holt has he's pretty good about not missing games, Bradley can't say that.

Okay, Mecca.

Go ahead and ignore the facts provided by OTWP58.

We all know you're smarter than NFL doctors.

[ArrowheadMagic]

Going into 2009?

Bradley.

What's your ****ing point anyway, Sport?


LOL.. sport?...... didnt take you for the internet tough guy... but so be it... at least your on record now. Hope he makes a full season finally. Casino cash bet, bradley doesnt play 16 games?

[Mecca]

Doctors say all kinds of shit, they can say his knee is bad, it may very well be that doesn't mean he's just going to miss games or can't perform guys are tough, some guys suck it up.

Tory Holt is still better than every WR on this roster not named Dwayne Bowe. We're not going to draft every player or have every player we sign be an all star. Torry Holt is a professional and a very smart player you want guys like him on your team. He also has some of the best hands ever at the position, if anything a year or 2 of Holt could help Bowe more than anyone knows.

[DaneMcCloud]

LOL.. sport?...... didnt take you for the internet tough guy... but so be it... at least your on record now. Hope he makes a full season finally. Casino cash bet, bradley doesnt play 16 games?

I don't even know if Bradley makes the team.

The point is that Holt, regardless of his past, is a HUGE injury concern and may not even pass a physical.

And FWIW, I'm the internets toughest guy.

LMAO

[DaneMcCloud]

Doctors say all kinds of shit

Yeah.

Because doctors have a secret agenda. :rolleyes:

You know, I used to think that all the "Mecca is full of himself" nonsense really was nonsense.

Now, I'm not so sure.

[Mecca]

Because I'm not agreeing about this?

If his knee was truly that bad, he would be missing more games. They didn't wanna pay him 8 mill a year that's understandable. He may very well have a bad knee but he seems to still suck it up and play even when he's on a horrendous team. He's a professional simply put.

I think our team actually got to young, and the few vets we have are whiners that think they are hot shit that never won anything. There is something to be said for having true professional veteran leadership on your team.

[ArrowheadMagic]

I don't even know if Bradley makes the team.

The point is that Holt, regardless of his past, is a HUGE injury concern and may not even pass a physical.

And FWIW, I'm the internets toughest guy.

LMAO


LMAO , didnt want to step on any toes. Trying to avoid the internet headlock that I cant get out of. Just think. 1. he provides another option for a young QB. 2. If the price isnt right, we move on. IMO, i dont buy he just developed this condition this off season. Not slamming the planet's sources.... just saying dude doesnt play 16 games with that condition.

[DaneMcCloud]

just saying dude doesnt play 16 games with that condition.

If he's a passionate guy and takes serious pain medication, he could have made it 16 games in 2008 (which is exactly what our "source" said).

That doesn't mean that at age 33, he could do it again.

Let me be clear: If this were a healthy Holt we were talking about, I'd be ALL for listening to his contract demands.

But it appears that he's not healthy and not worth the money or the risk.

[Mecca]

At 2-14 the term risk doesn't really matter to me in free agency, I'm sure his 2 year contract would destroy us.

[DaneMcCloud]

Because I'm not agreeing about this?

If his knee was truly that bad, he would be missing more games.

Not if he was injecting.

And FWIW, it numbers weren't exactly outstanding.

3 TD's in 16 games?

[ArrowheadMagic]

If he's a passionate guy and takes serious pain medication, he could have made it 16 games in 2008 (which is exactly what our "source" said).

That doesn't mean that at age 33, he could do it again.

Let me be clear: If this were a healthy Holt we were talking about, I'd be ALL for listening to his contract demands.

But it appears that he's not healthy and not worth the money or the risk.


A solid end to this thread.

[KCrockaholic]

Its not like we have anything to lose if we sign Holt and he gets injured. We have tons saved up in cap room, and he will sign for a very low number. Ok so the worst that can happen is we sign him to a 2 year deal and he blows out a knee, and hes done for his career...Ok we lose, next to nothing in the cap room. Best case senario is that Holt becomes a fantastic #2 reciever for Cassel, we then have a very good passing attack, and the rest of our offense benefits from it. If we sit there and do NOTHING like DaneMcCloud seems to want to do, we are in the same situation, and dont have much hope for a solid #2 reciever....Holt is one of those, smart, tough, fast, strong types of players that would be great for our lockerroom, plus he knows how to win, hes won playoff games, superbowl games....something almost NOBODY on our team knows how to do.

[KCrockaholic]

A solid end to this thread.

couldnt help myself.

[milkman]

Because I'm not agreeing about this?

If his knee was truly that bad, he would be missing more games. They didn't wanna pay him 8 mill a year that's understandable. He may very well have a bad knee but he seems to still suck it up and play even when he's on a horrendous team. He's a professional simply put.

I think our team actually got to young, and the few vets we have are whiners that think they are hot shit that never won anything. There is something to be said for having true professional veteran leadership on your team.

Holt didn't play the full season last year bone on bone.

It was early LAST year, that he had an MRI done because he was getting worse, not better in late 2007/early 2008.

That is when they found that he had very little cartilage left. NOW, he has almost none.

He had some cartlage left in the early part if the season, but it was deteriorating, and has deteriorated to the point now that he has none left.

Everyone's pain threshold is different, but there is almost no way that Holt, regardless of pain meds and threshold, can play 16 games on a knee with no cartilage.

[Frankie]

Yeah, Mark Bradley sucks.

He had 30 receptions, a 12.7 yard average, 380 yards and 3 TD's in 8 games.

What a loser.

This. Mark Bradley has been a positive addition to the roster. Granted he got injured. Some people just like to call our players "sh**" just because they are "OUR" players.

[Frankie]

The high and mighty clan is getting ridiculous... to the point that they are defending Mark ****ing Bradley while continuing to ridicule everybody else

Draft Value......Aaron Curry.......old free agents...blah blah. I get it, your tired of 9-7 and only a group of 23-29 year olds can get us to the ship

Bradley played very well. Does not need any defending.

[Frankie]

You have 14 ****in posts and you already claim to be an expert on the board? Who were you before?

Tom.