Would You Trade Cassel...

[RINGLEADER]

Interested how everyone feels since Cutler turned into Ryan Leaf with talent.

[doomy3]

What's your exact question?

[keg in kc]

Not for Cutler, no.

[RINGLEADER]

What's your exact question?

Poll added...

[Buehler445]

High First round pick.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Mr. Krab]

If Stafford falls to #3 i would call Tampa Bay and trade Cassel to them for their 1st this year and their 2nd next year.

[rambleonthruthefog]

none of those options. it would have to be players(not cutler)

[StcChief]

really depends on our #3 choice, who wants to trade up.
Cutler.... no interest. his character is telling.

[Hammock Parties]

I love Cutler. I'd take him.

Pioli won't though. Pioli is supposed to be smarter than me, though.

[talastan]

Whiny b**** boy and their first rounder!! :D Then trade C**tler to the Lions for their second first round pick. This would never happen, but boy talk about screwing the donks and shortening your rebuilding period.

[Archie Bunker]

Cassel has been deemed a better fit for this system than Cutler, Stafford, or Sanchez by McDaniels, Pioli, and Haley. That's good enough for me.

[The Bad Guy]

I wouldn't do the Broncos any favors.

[ferrarispider95]

You think Haley and Cutler would get along? Hell Haley had Warner pissed at him, what do you think he would to Cutler.

Cutler would be in the freaking fetal position.

[Chief Pote]

I love Cutler. I'd take him.

Pioli won't though. Pioli is supposed to be smarter than me, though.

He BETTER be smarter than all of us collectively.

[StcChief]

He BETTER be smarter than all of us collectively.as far as football....that seems a given.

[Mr. Krab]

I wouldn't do the Broncos any favors.
At this point, who cares. We need to worry about us improving not whether it's helping Denver or not.

[The Franchise]

If Stafford falls to #3 i would call Tampa Bay and trade Cassel to them for their 1st this year and their 2nd next year.

This.

[Ebolapox]

honestly? as in, this is madden 2009 EXCEPT I'm a real-life gm?

I take mr. krab's trade and run. then again, I may even do the trade IF stafford is gone. I'd take sanchez at three and enjoy the extra picks.

it's real life though. pioli is convinced that cassel is the man, and he hasn't done anything to make me really doubt him yet (I haven't seen the results on the field yet).

[dj56dt58]

Experts are convinced Cassel is a top 7 qb in this league..if that's true, you dont trade him for anything. Extra picks don't do you any good with a shitty qb

[Ebolapox]

Experts are convinced Cassel is a top 7 qb in this league..if that's true, you dont trade him for anything. Extra picks don't do you any good with a shitty qb


'experts' like ron jaworski have said that 'the chiefs have found their franchise qb, and his name is tyler thigpen.' SRSLY.

I'm not fully sold on cassel. I WANT to be sold on him. I've longed for a franchise qb for as long as I've been a fan. however, I AM sold on scott pioli (well, mostly). I'm gonna wait on the results on the field. proof is in the puddin.'

that said, I'm not convinced cassel has a higher ceiling than sanchez and stafford. they're certainly younger and have more time to improve/match cassel's 'snapshot' of potential at 27 years old.

that said... once again, I'm not an nfl gm. I don't get paid millions of dollars to make this decision. I have been, at different times, sold on byron leftwich, joey harrington and rick mirer as guys 'THE CHIEFS SHOULD GO OUT AND GET!' there's a reason we shouldn't listen to what I'd do.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

LOL @ anyone who says they wouldn't trade him for anything. Everybody has a price, including Scott Pioli.

[dj56dt58]

LOL @ anyone who says they wouldn't trade him for anything. Everybody has a price, including Scott Pioli.

Im sure he would take Brady for him

[Bwana]

I'd keep Cassel and let the donks swing in the wind. Cutler is a fricken cry baby with an Owens "I'm more important than the team attitude." Cassel seems like a good guy and I honestly think he is going to be a great QB.

[patteeu]

For Cutler plus their first or second round pick, maybe.

[Ebolapox]

I'd keep Cassel and let the donks swing in the wind. Cutler is a fricken cry baby with an Owens "I'm more important than the team attitude." Cassel seems like a good guy and I honestly think he is going to be a great QB.

man, I sure hope so. my freaking DAD was only 13 years old when the chiefs won the super bowl. for comparison sakes, I'm 26 years old. I've seen three chiefs playoff wins in twice the time it took my dad to see two super bowls and numerous playoff wins. :shake:

fucking chiefs!

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I would trade Cassel for any of those options.

[Hammock Parties]

I'd keep Cassel and let the donks swing in the wind. Cutler is a fricken cry baby with an Owens "I'm more important than the team attitude." Cassel seems like a good guy and I honestly think he is going to be a great QB.

What Cassel lacks in talent he makes up for in the intangibles. Like Trent Green.

[Ebolapox]

I would trade Cassel for any of those options.

even for 'not for anything?' damn, matrix, you're a whore. :)

[Ebolapox]

What Cassel lacks in talent he makes up for in the intangibles. Like Trent Green.

see, that kinda fucking frightens me. I've lived through the 'well, he has intangibles!' years. I've had it up to here with working-class heroes like dave kraig, steve deberg, scott peleur (sp?), trent green and CAN HE STAY HEALTHY 'croyle.' you know how many lombardi trophies I've seen the chiefs hoist? Z.E.R.O.

you know what I want? I want a 'SHOVE IT UP THEIR ASS' franchise qb who can take the team on his back and fuck the other team up. fuck, I hate john goddamned elway with the heat of an infinite amount of suns. however, I'd have KILLED to have him do it for us over his whole career. we have that shot (potentially) in the draft, and I'm likely gonna weep bitch tears if we pass on him so we can get 'intangibles.'

[rolstrol]

even for 'not for anything?' damn, matrix, you're a whore. :)

ROFL

[RINGLEADER]

LOL @ anyone who says they wouldn't trade him for anything. Everybody has a price, including Scott Pioli.

And you can bet if something happened where we could land multiple first rounders and Pioli pulled the trigger that we'd start hearing about how Cassel wouldn't extend his contract and this was all part of the plan all along.

[Mr. Krab]

And you can bet if something happened where we could land multiple first rounders and Pioli pulled the trigger that we'd start hearing about how Cassel wouldn't extend his contract and this was all part of the plan all along.
All of our options are still open until we sign Cassel long term.

[BigRichard]

My guess is it would be a slap in the face to BB in New England if he traded him. BB knows he could have gotten more for Cassel but he did Pioli a favor IMO. Pioli would never consider dicking BB. He will not trade him no matter how sweet the deal might be.

[Mr. Krab]

My guess is it would be a slap in the face to BB in New England if he traded him. BB knows he could have gotten more for Cassel but he did Pioli a favor IMO. Pioli would never consider dicking BB. He will not trade him no matter how sweet the deal might be.
Very,Very possible

[Quesadilla Joe]

If Stafford falls to #3 i would call Tampa Bay and trade Cassel to them for their 1st this year and their 2nd next year.

I wonder why NE couldn't get a 1st round pick from ANYBODY in the league for Cassel.

I'm sure that is what they were hoping they would get but GM's didn't think Cassel was worth it.

[patteeu]

My guess is it would be a slap in the face to BB in New England if he traded him. BB knows he could have gotten more for Cassel but he did Pioli a favor IMO. Pioli would never consider dicking BB. He will not trade him no matter how sweet the deal might be.

Why would it be dicking BB if we turned around and got Denver to part with even more in return for Cassel than they'd originally hoped to? I can see your point if we gave Cassel away for a song, but if we swapped him for Cutler plus a pick (which is what I believe the minimum price should be), what would he have to complain about?

[bowener]

I have been wondering, since about a week after acquiring MC, if we may trade him on draft day, and take a QB at #3. We havent bothered to resign him to a new contract, which you would think we would want to do before the rookies sign their monster deals (driving up the price of every other QB out there).

I also have been wondering how possible it id if we draft a QB at #3, and then pull a Rivers/Manning type trade, but perhaps not trade for a QB, but some draft picks and a player or something.

[dj56dt58]

I would trade Cassel for any of those options.

and who exactly do you take with another first rounder? One of the qbs that might not even make it in the NFL? The biggest need on this team was a qb, now we have one that excels in the system we will be using..why get rid of him?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

The "Not My Ideal Scenario" option wasn't available, so:


1) Take Cutler? Only if he's trade bait and guaranteed to hit the door as fast as he came in.

2) Use Cassel as leverage to acquire more picks past the 2nd, or to restore the 2nd we traded away, and use the 3rd overall to draft the Assassin?

YES. All day and all of the night.

3) Keep Cassel and use the last 3rd Overall this franchise will ever see again in my lifetime to snag a QB understudy in Matt or Mark?

Ideal.

[58-4ever]

My guess is it would be a slap in the face to BB in New England if he traded him. BB knows he could have gotten more for Cassel but he did Pioli a favor IMO. Pioli would never consider dicking BB. He will not trade him no matter how sweet the deal might be.

Your avatar is recycled. I hope you got the expressed written consent...

['Hamas' Jenkins]

and who exactly do you take with another first rounder? One of the qbs that might not even make it in the NFL? The biggest need on this team was a qb, now we have one that excels in the system we will be using..why get rid of him?

Because he was surrounded by Randy Moss, Wes Welker, a very good offensive line, the #6 rated running attack in the league and could only operate with any consistency out of the shotgun. He has marginal arm strength and accuracy, and his stats were pumped by the fact that he had far more of a percentage of his yardage come after the catch than any other QB in the league, and he took more sacks than any QB in the NFL.

That's why.

We don't even know if Cassel's a sure thing, and he's 6 years older than Stafford and 4 years older than Sanchez.

[58-4ever]

I think if you are sold on Stafford AND Sanchez, then you gamble and get a high first round pick. If not, I don't think Cassel should be traded, as he has been anointed the Chiefs' QBOTF.

[CupidStunt]

Because he was surrounded by Randy Moss, Wes Welker, a very good offensive line, the #6 rated running attack in the league and could only operate with any consistency out of the shotgun. He has marginal arm strength and accuracy, and his stats were pumped by the fact that he had far more of a percentage of his yardage come after the catch than any other QB in the league, and he took more sacks than any QB in the NFL.

Watch a game, you twat.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Watch a game, you twat.

I did. That same line gave up 21 sacks last year, while passing more, and Cassel can't throw a deep ball worth a crap. He has marginal accuracy on intermediate throws. I didn't say he was Kyle Boller.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I have been wondering, since about a week after acquiring MC, if we may trade him on draft day, and take a QB at #3. We havent bothered to resign him to a new contract, which you would think we would want to do before the rookies sign their monster deals (driving up the price of every other QB out there).

I also have been wondering how possible it id if we draft a QB at #3, and then pull a Rivers/Manning type trade, but perhaps not trade for a QB, but some draft picks and a player or something.

SHOW ME THE CONTRACT!:D

http://joah.typepad.com/.a/6a00e0097dd47a883301116891ff88970c-800wi

You Sir, have inspired me. See bottom of Sig:

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I did. That same line gave up 21 sacks last year, while passing more, and Cassel can't throw a deep ball worth a crap. He has marginal accuracy on intermediate throws. I didn't say he was Kyle Boller.

Now WORK THE BODY! WORK THE RIBCAGE! JAB! JAB! SHORT LEFT AND A HARD RIGHT!!!:D

[FAX]

Were I a GM type person, I would avoid Cutler. That guy has too much "me" for me. And, although there's an "m" and an "e" in team, the letters aren't in that order and it would leave and "a" and a "t" which spells "at" which is where you are and we already know that, so what's the point?

Even though it would never happen, I'd trade Cassel only for a very, very high first round pick and a 2nd ... based on his proven experience and relative youth. Surely peeps realize that BB could have gotten that for him had he waited out the market.

I guess I disagree with the peeps who would rather have either Stafford or Sanchez, now that we have Cassel in hand. Clearly, Pioli knows what he has in Cassel and trusts him to get the job done. And, although he is a little older than those two guys, it takes a few years for a quarterback to acclimate to the NFL - both by observing on the sideline and taking snaps - so we don't have to wait for him.

All in all, I think we're in pretty good shape. But, as I've said before, it's very possible that we're not through acquiring quarterbacks.

FAX

[Mecca]

Because he was surrounded by Randy Moss, Wes Welker, a very good offensive line, the #6 rated running attack in the league and could only operate with any consistency out of the shotgun. He has marginal arm strength and accuracy, and his stats were pumped by the fact that he had far more of a percentage of his yardage come after the catch than any other QB in the league, and he took more sacks than any QB in the NFL.

That's why.

We don't even know if Cassel's a sure thing, and he's 6 years older than Stafford and 4 years older than Sanchez.

That's a pretty reasonable thought out post so why am I not surprised to see a negative reaction to it...

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Were I a GM type person, I would avoid Cutler. That guy has too much "me" for me. And, although there's an "m" and an "e" in team, the letters aren't in that order and it would leave and "a" and a "t" which spells "at" which is where you are and we already know that, so what's the point?

Even though it would never happen, I'd trade Cassel only for a very, very high first round pick and a 2nd ... based on his proven experience and relative youth. Surely peeps realize that BB could have gotten that for him had he waited out the market.

I guess I disagree with the peeps who would rather have either Stafford or Sanchez, now that we have Cassel in hand. Clearly, Pioli knows what he has in Cassel and trusts him to get the job done. And, although he is a little older than those two guys, it takes a few years for a quarterback to acclimate to the NFL - both by observing on the sideline and taking snaps - so we don't have to wait for him.

All in all, I think we're in pretty good shape. But, as I've said before, it's very possible that we're not through acquiring quarterbacks.

FAX

That's why I want him to stay, and it's also why we should grab the understudy with the 3rd overall.

[Just Passin' By]

That's a pretty reasonable thought out post so why am I not surprised to see a negative reaction to it...

Because it ignores the realities of an offensive line that was horrible to start the season (as shown by the running game he points to) and a quarterback who was learning on the fly?

[Mecca]

Because it ignores the realities of an offensive line that was horrible to start the season (as shown by the running game he points to) and a quarterback who was learning on the fly?

It was horrible because Cassel holds the ball to long and has no pocket presence they had to put him in the shotgun for him to complete passes and even then he was still horrible throwing downfield and to the middle of the field.

You're talking about a team that basically had him dump it to the WR's so they could run, NE led the league in yards after catch because of this, this is called letting your WR's make up for what your QB can't do.

[RealSNR]

A first rounder. Don't really care where it lies.

If that happened then we basically wheeled and dealed and got something out of nothing.

-Take a QB at #3 (good value pick instead of reaching for a defensive player)

-Take a player at much better value in the rest of the first round without sacrificing anything.

Even true fans have to like this deal. We essentially traded our 2nd round pick for a first round pick and Vrabel. How can you NOT like that deal?

[FAX]

That's why I want him to stay, and it's also why we should grab the understudy with the 3rd overall.

Which wouldn't surprise me.

I have a feeling (not supported by any facts or links or anything similar) that Pioli understands the need for continuity on a football team. Injuries happen and sometimes players just don't work out. We haven't spent our cap in FA, so there's dry powder.

Maybe, just maybe, we have a professional GM with the best interests of the club in mind.

FAX

[FAX]

It was horrible because Cassel holds the ball to long and has no pocket presence they had to put him in the shotgun for him to complete passes and even then he was still horrible throwing downfield and to the middle of the field.

You're talking about a team that basically had him dump it to the WR's so they could run, NE led the league in yards after catch because of this, this is called letting your WR's make up for what your QB can't do.

It was his first year starting, Mr. Mecca. Jeez.

Plus, by all accounts, he improved as the year progressed. I think you're being a little hard on the guy. After all, 11 wins is 11 wins. You don't accomplish that with a total doofus noodle arm under center.

FAX

[Just Passin' By]

It was horrible because Cassel holds the ball to long and has no pocket presence they had to put him in the shotgun for him to complete passes and even then he was still horrible throwing downfield and to the middle of the field.

You're talking about a team that basically had him dump it to the WR's so they could run, NE led the league in yards after catch because of this, this is called letting your WR's make up for what your QB can't do.

No, it was horrible because Neal was on the PUP list, Hochstein was struggling with an injury, O'Callahan was lost for the season, and the team was forced to use Billy Yates at right guard.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

It was his first year starting, Mr. Mecca. Jeez.

Plus, by all accounts, he improved as the year progressed. I think you're being a little hard on the guy.

FAX

His improvement was tied directly to the fact that they cut off their deep routes and basically started running the kind of offense that they ran with Weis in 2002.

[BigRichard]

Why would it be dicking BB if we turned around and got Denver to part with even more in return for Cassel than they'd originally hoped to? I can see your point if we gave Cassel away for a song, but if we swapped him for Cutler plus a pick (which is what I believe the minimum price should be), what would he have to complain about?

Think of it this way, you do a friend a favor by selling him your $2000 car for $1500 because he is a friend and he is in dire need of a car. You had an offer for $2200 on the table but you are really good friends with this person. But the very next day your buddy sells the car for $2300. Are you gonna be pissed? Hell ya. Give me my fucking money back dickhead is what you will be saying.

[FAX]

A first rounder. Don't really care where it lies.

If that happened then we basically wheeled and dealed and got something out of nothing.

-Take a QB at #3 (good value pick instead of reaching for a defensive player)

-Take a player at much better value in the rest of the first round without sacrificing anything.

Even true fans have to like this deal. We essentially traded our 2nd round pick for a first round pick and Vrabel. How can you NOT like that deal?

Throw in a 2nd and I'm with you, Mr. SNR. BB could have gotten that if he'd played hardball.

FAX

[Mecca]

It was his first year starting, Mr. Mecca. Jeez.

Plus, by all accounts, he improved as the year progressed. I think you're being a little hard on the guy. After all, 11 wins is 11 wins. You don't accomplish that with a total doofus noodle arm under center.

FAX

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I think there are a ton of QB's that could have done what Cassel did in that situation.

[Donger]

Are you people ever happy and satisfied?

My God.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

No, it was horrible because Neal was on the PUP list, Hochstein was struggling with an injury, O'Callahan was lost for the season, and the team was forced to use Billy Yates at right guard.

And got 62/64 possible starts from Light, Mankins, Koppen, and Kaczur.

Who knew the lynchpin of an offensive line was the right guard

[FAX]

His improvement was tied directly to the fact that they cut off their deep routes and basically started running the kind of offense that they ran with Weis in 2002.

Some of that is experience, though. Or lack, thereof.

It takes awhile to get your timing down with your receivers. Cassel didn't have the luxury of working with the first team at camp. They had to make adjustments in order to win games. You can't fault the quarterback for that.

Again, I think it possible that your expectations and opinion of Cassel are skewed by your desire to draft a quarterback with our #3. Anyhow, legion are the winning quarterbacks who didn't have a rocket arm.

FAX

[Just Passin' By]

And got 62/64 possible starts from Light, Mankins, Koppen, and Kaczur.

Who knew the lynchpin of an offensive line was the right guard

Many people who watched the Super Bowl and saw the line struggle after Neal went down knew it was going to be a problem. It wasn't the #2 choice that ended up starting, after all. Hochstein and O'Callaghan were higher on the depth chart for a reason.

[FAX]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I think there are a ton of QB's that could have done what Cassel did in that situation.

Maybe so, but that doesn't negate his accomplishment.

Because he may not have a howitzer for an arm, you're taking his 11 wins away from him?

FAX

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Some of that is experience, though. Or lack, thereof.

It takes awhile to get your timing down with your receivers. Cassel didn't have the luxury of working with the first team at camp. They had to make adjustments in order to win games. You can't fault the quarterback for that.

Again, I think it possible that your expectations and opinion of Cassel are skewed by your desire to draft a quarterback with our #3. Anyhow, legion are the winning quarterbacks who didn't have a rocket arm.

FAX

You may be right FAX, but there are legions of quarterbacks on the street who lack arm strength, intermediate and deep accuracy, pocket presence, and an ability to play from center.

[RealSNR]

Think of it this way, you do a friend a favor by selling him your $2000 car for $1500 because he is a friend and he is in dire need of a car. You had an offer for $2200 on the table but you are really good friends with this person. But the very next day your buddy sells the car for $2300. Are you gonna be pissed? Hell ya. Give me my ****ing money back dickhead is what you will be saying.That's stupid. There's no way Bill did a favor to Pioli by offering him the Cassel deal.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Many people who watched the Super Bowl and saw the line struggle after Neal went down knew it was going to be a problem.

So, those 26 extra sacks in 75 fewer attempts are directly correlated to the lack of your right guard for 5 games?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Which wouldn't surprise me.

I have a feeling (not supported by any facts or links or anything similar) that Pioli understands the need for continuity on a football team. Injuries happen and sometimes players just don't work out. We haven't spent our cap in FA, so there's dry powder.

Maybe, just maybe, we have a professional GM with the best interests of the club in mind.

FAX

The longer this lack of contract goes on, the more I feel that we haven't changed our draft outlook one bit since Cassel came on board.
At this point, only an outside influence involving Cutler and Detroit or STL can screw it up.
But even then, I believe Pioli is going to get what Pioli wants. The more I look at the intricacies of the Denver situation, it seems to me that Pioli had at least a marginal, chess masters hand in the whole affair somewhat like the straw that broke the camel's back.

I don't think Pioli is a guy you want to try and outsmart or mess with.

It'll be interesting years from now if and when he writes a book about his years and experiences in the NFL; his mind for dealing and football would be interesting and something worth learning about.

[Mecca]

Even if you really like Cassel ask yourself what is his reasonable best case scenario? Does anyone think he's a franchise player...I just don't see that.

[BigRichard]

That's stupid. There's no way Bill did a favor to Pioli by offering him the Cassel deal.

He had better offers on the table when this all went down. He was doing Pioli a favor IMO. I don't see how you could see it any other way. Plus they traded like the first day of free agency. Why would you not wait to get something better if you could?

[Just Passin' By]

So, those 26 extra sacks in 75 fewer attempts are directly correlated to the lack of your right guard for 5 games?

The sack numbers declined after a bad start, yet you just ignore that obvious reality.

[Just Passin' By]

Even if you really like Cassel ask yourself what is his reasonable best case scenario? Does anyone think he's a franchise player...I just don't see that.

You don't see anything but Sanchez' nuts in your eyes.

[Mecca]

You don't see anything but Sanchez' nuts in your eyes.

Boy that is a well thought out answer, but hey I'm sure you always have nuts on your mind.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Are you people ever happy and satisfied?

My God.

You don't see anything but Sanchez' nuts in your eyes.

Dude...:shake: Do you really want to go back to being "Just Fisting Myself"?

Just sayin'.

Carry on.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

The sack numbers declined after a bad start, yet you just ignore that obvious reality.

That he took 3 or more sacks in 10 games?

[FAX]

You may be right FAX, but there are legions of quarterbacks on the street who lack arm strength, intermediate and deep accuracy, pocket presence, and an ability to play from center.

Look, I'm an unapologetic homer, so I see the Chiefs through red & gold colored glasses. Plus, I have confidence in Pioli - as do most NFL peeps.

The bottom line for me is that Pioli "knows" Cassel. I'm confident that he wouldn't have traded for him if he wasn't convinced he was capable of getting the job done. I'm also 100 percent certain that Pioli knows more about Cassel's strengths and weaknesses than anybody on this board.

That's why I find it difficult to second guess this decision on the basis of what we "might" get with our #3 pick. Maybe I'm a true fan, I don't know. I certainly want a franchise quarterback. But, at this point, I'm going with Pioli's decision and hoping that Cassel is the man.

FAX

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Look, I'm an unapologetic homer, so I see the Chiefs through red & gold colored glasses. Plus, I have confidence in Pioli - as do most NFL peeps.

The bottom line for me is that Pioli "knows" Cassel. I'm confident that he wouldn't have traded for him if he wasn't convinced he was capable of getting the job done. I'm also 100 percent certain that Pioli knows more about Cassel's strengths and weaknesses than anybody on this board.

That's why I find it difficult to second guess this decision on the basis of what we "might" get with our #3 pick. Maybe I'm a true fan, I don't know. I certainly want a franchise quarterback. But, at this point, I'm going with Pioli's decision and hoping that Cassel is the man.

FAX

I hope that he is right too, FAX, and I understand the desire to see things from the red and yellow glasses.

At the same time, he comes from a lineage of guys who have a history of wanting their guys at quarterback, even if they aren't the best option. Look at Parcells' moves in Miami and Dallas, for example, and what McDaniels is doing in Dallas, and Mangini already rumbling about Quinn.

[Just Passin' By]

That he took 3 or more sacks in 10 games?

This has been gone before, so let me break it down on a game-by-game basis.

Sacks in games Cassel started before Neal got back as the starter:

4
4
5
4
6
3

Sacks in games Cassel started once Neal got back as the starter:

0
1
3
2
5
3
3
1
1


Now, if you can't see a difference, I don't know what to tell you.

[FAX]

I hope that he is right too, FAX, and I understand the desire to see things from the red and yellow glasses.

At the same time, he comes from a lineage of guys who have a history of wanting their guys at quarterback, even if they aren't the best option. Look at Parcells' moves in Miami and Dallas, for example, and what McDaniels is doing in Dallas, and Mangini already rumbling about Quinn.

That's certainly a valid concern, Mr. 'Hamas' Jenkins. Clearly, coaches and GMs sometimes fail to consider all the available options before making a personnel decision. Choosing the "known" over the "unknown" and all that. League history is rife with examples of this.

If that's the case with Cassel, however, it's the first time I've heard that criticism of Pioli. Based on what I know of him, just the opposite is true. He is known for being extremely thorough and extensive in his scouting and evals. My bet is that he knows how Sanchez and Stafford wipe.

In fact, the only reason one could raise that question is that he chose Cassel which, after all the chips have struck the floor, might prove to be a good decision - we still don't know. Either way, criticizing Pioli by projecting the possibility (which runs counter to his reputation) that he may not have fully evaluated Stafford and Sanchez is kind of a stretch since that's his job and he did, in fact, find Brady and Cassel in the tall weeds which is indicative of a guy who does his homework.

FAX

[BigRichard]

This has been gone before, so let me break it down on a game-by-game basis.

Sacks in games Cassel started before Neal got back as the starter:

4
4
5
4
6
3

Sacks in games Cassel started once Neal got back as the starter:

0
1
3
2
5
3
3
1
1


Now, if you can't see a difference, I don't know what to tell you.

Hamas has his head so far up Sanchez's and Stafford's asses you will never get him to pull it out and admit that Cassel isn't that bad.

[58-4ever]

That's a pretty reasonable thought out post so why am I not surprised to see a negative reaction to it...

Is it hard to breathe with his penis in your mouth all the time?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Hamas has his head so far up Sanchez's and Stafford's asses you will never get him to pull it out and admit that Cassel isn't that bad.

Are you fucking kidding me?

Where? Where does your ilk incubate? Where do I send the Daisy Cutter, damn you?!

[RINGLEADER]

Hamas has his head so far up Sanchez's and Stafford's asses you will never get him to pull it out and admit that Cassel isn't that bad.

I don't understand this. It's not just the Chiefs brain trust that isn't rating these two guys that high.

[The Bad Guy]

Do the people who keep harping on the amount of sacks he took think that QBs who don't basically start a game in 8 years are going to have immaculuate pocket awareness?

[The Bad Guy]

I don't understand this. It's not just the Chiefs brain trust that isn't rating these two guys that high.

I don't either.

You would think Stafford's last name was Manning.

[The Bad Guy]

Are you ****ing kidding me?

Where? Where does your ilk incubate? Where do I send the Daisy Cutter, damn you?!

I think your a quality poster, along with Hamas, but I hope he's at least showering before you suck him off constantly on here.

[SBK]

I wonder why NE couldn't get a 1st round pick from ANYBODY in the league for Cassel.

I'm sure that is what they were hoping they would get but GM's didn't think Cassel was worth it.

Almost 300 posts and you have yet to prove you have a brain and can think on your own. Good work!

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I think your a quality poster, along with Hamas, but I hope he's at least showering before you suck him off constantly on here.

So is it safe to say you're siding with the Chiefs Planet Kool-Aid Brain Trust on this matter then?

I'll give Cassel a chance. I don't really have much of a choice. But for the same people who pissed and moaned about Sanchez not having enough experience to just jump right on board the Good Ship Cassel with nary a thought to HIS lack of experience is utterly fucking ridiculous.

As to the suck off; we keep Gimp Towne locked in a broom closet for such occasions as they arise. :D

[SBK]

I'm guessing that we traded for Cassel because our front office didn't see the rookies as worth the pick. I am greatly encouraged at the fact that Pioli wanted him, and McDaniels has a skin bursting hard on for him. If the folks that have been with him his whole career still chased him--maybe there's more to him than we've seen.

But I still would prefer that we get Stafford or Sanchez. Hopefully 3-4 years from now I'm the one who was wrong.

[jAZ]

I don't know much, and I trust the guys who know Cassel. They think Cassel is better deal than the top QB's in this draft. So I would stick with them and take Cassel over anyone including Cutler, Stafford or Sanchez. I suspect all the NEPats guys think that Cassel is a probowl QB in waiting. I have a gut feeling he's going to be better than Trent Green.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I'm guessing that we traded for Cassel because our front office didn't see the rookies as worth the pick. I am greatly encouraged at the fact that Pioli wanted him, and McDaniels has a skin bursting hard on for him. If the folks that have been with him his whole career still chased him--maybe there's more to him than we've seen.

But I still would prefer that we get Stafford or Sanchez. Hopefully 3-4 years from now I'm the one who was wrong.

Or, they do see one of them as worth it but don't want to start him straight out of college, and realized after a 10 second evaluation of Tyler Thigpen that brought on a pants-pissing fit of laughter, that stocking the fridge with Cassel was a good move for 2009 and however long it takes to develop the next franchise QB.

1) Show me the contract.

2) We've still got that 3rd overall.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

That's certainly a valid concern, Mr. 'Hamas' Jenkins. Clearly, coaches and GMs sometimes fail to consider all the available options before making a personnel decision. Choosing the "known" over the "unknown" and all that. League history is rife with examples of this.

If that's the case with Cassel, however, it's the first time I've heard that criticism of Pioli. Based on what I know of him, just the opposite is true. He is known for being extremely thorough and extensive in his scouting and evals. My bet is that he knows how Sanchez and Stafford wipe.

In fact, the only reason one could raise that question is that he chose Cassel which, after all the chips have struck the floor, might prove to be a good decision - we still don't know. Either way, criticizing Pioli by projecting the possibility (which runs counter to his reputation) that he may not have fully evaluated Stafford and Sanchez is kind of a stretch since that's his job and he did, in fact, find Brady and Cassel in the tall weeds which is indicative of a guy who does his homework.

FAX

I'm sorry, but they were just as high on Tim Rattay as Tom Brady. The only reason they took Brady is because the QB coach was having an aneurysm that they hadn't already drafted him. He even walked out of the war room at one point in protest.

[jAZ]

But for the same people who pissed and moaned about Sanchez not having enough experience to just jump right on board the Good Ship Cassel with nary a thought to HIS lack of experience is utterly ****ing ridiculous.
What's utterly ****ing ridiculous is to compare Sanchez's experience as a 3 year backup and 1 year starter at USC with Cassel's experience as a 4 year backup at USC, 3 year backup in the NFL and 1 year starter in the NFL.

Cassel is not a sure fire HOF QB, or even a sure fire All Pro, but his experience level compared to Sanchez is unquestionable.

1 year NFL starter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (deep breath) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience than 4 year starter at (any college ever).

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

What's utterly ****ing ridiculous is to compare Sanchez's experience as a 3 year backup and 1 year starter at USC with Cassel's experience as a 4 year backup at USC, 3 year backup in the NFL and 1 year starter in the NFL.

Cassel is not a sure fire HOF QB, or even a sure fire All Pro, but his experience level compared to Sanchez is unquestionable.

1 year NFL starter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (deep breath) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience than 4 year starter at (any college ever).

Cassel 1 year.

Sanchez 1 year.

And you're right, it is ridiculous; Sanchez shows 10 times the form, skill and promise as Cassel, and he's never set foot on an NFL field.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

This has been gone before, so let me break it down on a game-by-game basis.

Sacks in games Cassel started before Neal got back as the starter:

4
4
5
4
6
3

Sacks in games Cassel started once Neal got back as the starter:

0
1
3
2
5
3
3
1
1


Now, if you can't see a difference, I don't know what to tell you.

This is dishonest.

Neal played in 11 games with 9 starts in 2008.

He played in 8 games in 2007.

If he made that much of a difference, why wasn't Brady raped for half of the '07 campaign?

[RINGLEADER]

What's utterly ****ing ridiculous is to compare Sanchez's experience as a 3 year backup and 1 year starter at USC with Cassel's experience as a 4 year backup at USC, 3 year backup in the NFL and 1 year starter in the NFL.

Cassel is not a sure fire HOF QB, or even a sure fire All Pro, but his experience level compared to Sanchez is unquestionable.

1 year NFL starter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (deep breath) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience than 4 year starter at (any college ever).

On this we agree. ;)

[FAX]

I'm sorry, but they were just as high on Tim Rattay as Tom Brady. The only reason they took Brady is because the QB coach was having an aneurysm that they hadn't already drafted him. He even walked out of the war room at one point in protest.

Just to be clear, Mr. 'Hamas' Jenkins, you're stating that the only reason that Pioli and BB researched and ultimately drafted Brady was to appease the QB coach?

FAX

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Just to be clear, Mr. 'Hamas' Jenkins, you're stating that the only reason that Pioli and BB researched and ultimately drafted Brady was to appease the QB coach?

FAX

I'm saying that he was most likely a strong deciding factor in that decision. It is documented fact that they had those guys 1 and 1a on their boards.

Six quarterbacks already had been drafted in 2000 when the Patriots came up in the sixth round to make the 199th overall choice. Marshall's Chad Pennington was a legitimate first-round pick, and the Jets took him. No problem there. But when the 49ers drafted Hofstra's Giovanni Carmazzi in the third round (to say nothing of Southwest Texas State's Spergon Wynn going to the Browns 16 picks earlier in the sixth round), well, Tom Brady was furious.



"I will never forget those days," said Brady, who grew up rooting for the 49ers. "It was a time in my career when I didn't know if I was going to be playing football. You keep seeing those other quarterbacks being taken, you start putting scenarios in your head."

For New England's sixth-round pick, it was down to Brady and Tim Rattay of Louisiana Tech. Quarterbacks coach Dick Rehbein, who had worked them both out, gave the slight edge to Brady. Fortunately for the Patriots, head coach Bill Belichick concurred.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs07/columns/story?id=3219092

The leaving the war room and other stories come from other sources.

[Just Passin' By]

This is dishonest.

Neal played in 11 games with 9 starts in 2008.

He played in 8 games in 2007.

If he made that much of a difference, why wasn't Brady raped for half of the '07 campaign?

It's not dishonest. As I pointed out, it wasn't just the #1 guard missing. The team was down to #4 and #5 on the rg depth chart. If you look, you'll find that Hochstein happened to have 8 starts in 2007.

You were just wrong in your assertion.

[wild1]

No. How messed up and rudderless and Bronco-like would this organization be if it torpedoed a settled QB situation?

[MadMax]

That's stupid. There's no way Bill did a favor to Pioli by offering him the Cassel deal.



It was a conspiracy I tell ya. ROFL Or as other eggheads on here put it ( Pioli bent him over and gave him a jolly good rogering )

[The Bad Guy]

So is it safe to say you're siding with the Chiefs Planet Kool-Aid Brain Trust on this matter then?

I'll give Cassel a chance. I don't really have much of a choice. But for the same people who pissed and moaned about Sanchez not having enough experience to just jump right on board the Good Ship Cassel with nary a thought to HIS lack of experience is utterly ****ing ridiculous.

As to the suck off; we keep Gimp Towne locked in a broom closet for such occasions as they arise. :D

I would have been fine with Sanchez. I would have been fine with Stafford.

All 3 QBs carry risk.

I think moving forward, Cassel was a smart choice. That doesn't mean he'll turn out to be the best choice, but I can live with what we paid him.

I'm not going to carry on like he didn't improve or he's too old to make a difference. If Sanchez or Stafford were slam dunk prospects, this trade never happens.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

It's not dishonest. As I pointed out, it wasn't just the #1 guard missing. The team was down to #4 and #5 on the rg depth chart. If you look, you'll find that Hochstein happened to have 8 starts in 2007.

You were just wrong in your assertion.

Of a possible 80 starts, your starting line had 71. Seven were of Neal's games were started by Yates, but Neal actually played in 11, more than he did the year before. Hochstein gave you 15 games as well. It's not like you were down to guys off the street here. You're talking about a swing guard.

Yates had been with your team for four years, he wasn't a guy off the street who you signed to replace another guy off the street like the Chiefs were doing with DE's this year.

If Steve Neal is that important to you, you guys need to give him Hutchinson type money.

[Tiger's Fan]

This is dishonest.

Neal played in 11 games with 9 starts in 2008.

He played in 8 games in 2007.

If he made that much of a difference, why wasn't Brady raped for half of the '07 campaign?

Every time you try to compare Tom Brady to Matt Cassel, you just look like a bigger dumbass, dumbass.

[FAX]

I'm saying that he was most likely a strong deciding factor in that decision. It is documented fact that they had those guys 1 and 1a on their boards. ...

Ah ... so you're saying that they actually did their research on the guy. That makes more sense.

It's pretty obvious to everyone that Brady was undervalued prior to and during the draft. In fact, I'm sure his career has been a surprise to everyone, including Pioli and BB. But it stretches credulity to say that NE drafted him solely because the QB coach had a tantrum. That doesn't sound like the Patriot Way at all.

But, the fact that he was drafted and undervalued and a surprise speaks to the ability of NE to do a superior job of developing quarterbacks while they're waiting a few years for their turn to take the field. Not exactly the best reason to dislike Cassel - if you catch my meaning.

FAX

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Every time you try to compare Tom Brady to Matt Cassel, you just look like a bigger dumbass, dumbass.

He doesn't have to be Tom Brady.

He does need to be able to not get sacked more than any QB in the league when all his line is missing is their right guard, and he has a great running attack and phenomenal WRs to lean on.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Ah ... so you're saying that they actually did their research on the guy. That makes more sense.

It's pretty obvious to everyone that Brady was undervalued prior to and during the draft. In fact, I'm sure his career has been a surprise to everyone, including Pioli and BB. But it stretches credulity to say that NE drafted him solely because the QB coach had a tantrum. That doesn't sound like the Patriot Way at all.

But, the fact that he was drafted and undervalued and a surprise speaks to the ability of NE to do a superior job of developing quarterbacks while they're waiting a few years for their turn to take the field. Not exactly the best reason to dislike Cassel - if you catch my meaning.

FAX

If two guys are on your board and everyone is split and the guy who personally worked them out and who is going to coach them directly says "Go with this guy" and was so astounded that at one point he walked out of the war room, I think that it may well affect your decision on a player.

[SAUTO]

I wonder why NE couldn't get a 1st round pick from ANYBODY in the league for Cassel.

I'm sure that is what they were hoping they would get but GM's didn't think Cassel was worth it.

ROFL denver's coach wants our QB/TTC

[SAUTO]

It was horrible because Cassel holds the ball to long and has no pocket presence they had to put him in the shotgun for him to complete passes and even then he was still horrible throwing downfield and to the middle of the field.

You're talking about a team that basically had him dump it to the WR's so they could run, NE led the league in yards after catch because of this, this is called letting your WR's make up for what your QB can't do.

watch some games there, i have and he had pressure on him when his back foot hit or just after the ball hit his hands when in the shotgun, consistently

[SAUTO]

His improvement was tied directly to the fact that they cut off their deep routes and basically started running the kind of offense that they ran with Weis in 2002.

oh yeah? well who was their qb then? why did they run that offense?




because in tom brady's first couple of years he had the same deep ball cassel has now

[SAUTO]

The longer this lack of contract goes on, the more I feel that we haven't changed our draft outlook one bit since Cassel came on board.
At this point, only an outside influence involving Cutler and Detroit or STL can screw it up.
But even then, I believe Pioli is going to get what Pioli wants. The more I look at the intricacies of the Denver situation, it seems to me that Pioli had at least a marginal, chess masters hand in the whole affair somewhat like the straw that broke the camel's back.

I don't think Pioli is a guy you want to try and outsmart or mess with.

It'll be interesting years from now if and when he writes a book about his years and experiences in the NFL; his mind for dealing and football would be interesting and something worth learning about.

maybe they havent extended cassel to keep their cards close to the vest and get as much as possible out of the #3 in trading down, the contract might already be done just not announced

[FAX]

If two guys are on your board and everyone is split and the guy who personally worked them out and who is going to coach them directly says "Go with this guy" and was so astounded that at one point he walked out of the war room, I think that it may well affect your decision on a player.

Perfectly understandable. It just sounded (for a minute, there) as though you were saying that the reason they drafted Brady was due to the hissy (sp?) fit thrown by the QB coach. I just didn't think BB would draft anybody, anytime, regardless of round or position or need, on that basis alone.

So, the issue comes down to this; was Cassel drafted and developed by the same guys who drafted and developed Brady and, if so, is there a reasonable expectation that the results will be similar? The answer to the first question is, of course, yes. As for the second, we'll have to wait and see, but at this point, we have no reason to believe there Cassel is less of a quality project than Brady was at this point in his career. When you look at it that way, this is cause for hope, Mr. 'Hamas' Jenkins, not despair.

FAX