Chiefs Cutler rumor [Archive]

View Full Version : Chiefs Cutler rumor

djrcmay

03-19-2009, 09:49 AM

Cutler deal to be sealed this weekend?

Jay Cutler | Broncos | Interested: Titans? Browns? Jets? Buccaneers? Bears? Bills?
A source has told the Denver Post that four teams have contacted the Denver Broncos in regards to Jay Cutler, and that number is expected to increase heading into the NFL owners meetings, to which Broncos owner Pat Bowlen, general manager Brian Xanders and head coach Josh McDaniels will travel on Saturday. The rift between Cutler and the Broncos continues to widen, as an article on NFL.com presents conflicting reports as to whether or not Cutler met with Bowlen following the owner's decision to fire Mike Shanahan as coach. In Cutler's recollection, Bowlen told him that the offensive staff would remain, while Bowlen doesn't recall a meeting at all.
Regardless of whether that meeting took place or any promises were made, Cutler has been a thorn in the side of Broncos management for weeks now, and this weekend might be his last with the team. As for what the Broncos can expect in return, an unnamed NFL executive told the Post, "They should be able to pick a quarterback off a roster and get two No. 1's - one this year and one next year."

talastan

03-19-2009, 09:51 AM

Brock

03-19-2009, 10:02 AM

This might be a repost:

Agent explains Cutler timeline

Jay Cutler's agent says his client's relationship with the Denver Broncos disintegrated after the firing of coach Mike Shanahan and a broken promise that Shanahan's offensive staff would largely remain intact, according to a report on NFL.com.

Bus Cook told the Web site that Cutler met with Broncos owner Pat Bowlen shortly after Shanahan was fired on Dec. 30 to express his concerns.

"Jay was disappointed in the firing of Mike Shanahan and met with the owner. The owner assured him everything would be fine. The owner said he had the second-best offense in football and would leave the offensive staff intact. Jay was good with that. Then he hires an offensive coach who gets rid of the staff," Cook told NFL.com.

New Broncos coach Josh McDaniels overhauled the offensive staff after his arrival.

Bowlen, however, says he doesn't remember having the conversation with Cutler that Cook references.

"I really have had no discussion with Jay or the agent. Mike was fired right after the season. At that point, there was no need to have a discussion with Jay. Now, actually, to be fair, I don't think I had that discussion. I don't recall it. I know I'm getting up there in age, and I am not sure of that discussion," Bowlen told NFL.com.

Cook has formally requested a trade on Cutler's behalf, but contrary to reports, he says he didn't immediately demand that his client be traded.

"Jay met with the coach early on and then told me everything was going to be OK. He said, 'We are going to work this out; we are on the same wavelength.' Everything was fine until Saturday two weeks ago," Cook told NFL.com. "Jay called me and asked, 'Are they trying to trade me?' I told him, 'No, why would they try to do that?' "

The Broncos reportedly tried to unload Cutler in a three-way trade proposal that would have brought former Patriots quarterback Matt Cassel, whom McDaniels worked with in New England, to Denver. Cassel was eventually traded to the Kansas City Chiefs for a second-round pick.

As recently as the last meeting between Cutler and McDaniels, Cook said his client was ready to commit to the Broncos. However, he claims, the Broncos wouldn't commit to Cutler.

"We told them the evening of our last meeting that Jay wanted to be a Bronco even before the meeting," Cook told NFL.com. "Jay told them he understood about the coach's relationship with Matt Cassel. At no time was the coach critical of Jay. In fact, he told Jay soon after he got to Denver that Jay was the reason he came to Denver. So, why was he trying to trade him? All the guy had to do was say I dropped the ball, I have a special bond with Cassel, you are my guy. Jay never heard that. What he heard in the meeting was it could happen again."

Bowlen said he would like Cutler to remain with the Broncos, but the writing might be on the wall for his departure.

"I would like to keep him here, obviously. But if you are going to be an unhappy camper, there is no real reason to be here," Bowlen told NFL.com.

Mr. Flopnuts

03-19-2009, 10:08 AM

orange

03-19-2009, 10:09 AM

Bowlen challenges agent's claim of meeting with Cutler
By The Denver Post

Mar 19:

Broncos owner Pat Bowlen challenged a claim made by agent Bus Cook to NFL.com on Wednesday morning that he had lied to quarterback Jay Cutler, a Cook client.

"Jay was disappointed in the firing of Mike Shanahan and met with the owner," Cook told NFL.com. "The owner assured him everything would be fine. The owner said he had the second-best offense in football and would leave the offensive staff intact. Jay was good with that. Then he hires an offensive coach who gets rid of the staff."

Bowlen said Wednesday afternoon that he did not recall meeting with Cutler during the coaching search. Cutler left Denver the day before Mike Shanahan was fired and did not return until February.

Bowlen said he would like the Pro Bowl quarterback to stay with the Broncos but was unable to predict if that would happen.

"I would like to keep him here, obviously," Bowlen told NFL.com. "But if you are going to be an unhappy camper, there is no real reason to be here."

Bowlen was asked by NFL.com. if he has reservations about coach Josh McDaniels or the way he handled this matter.

"Obviously, I am not going to criticize the head coach," Bowlen said. "I think he was trying to be a head coach. As I see it, Jay got upset about things and his feelings were hurt, and here we are. I am not going to weigh in on who is to blame here. This whole incident has been written about and talked about, and I am moving on, personally. We're getting ready for the draft and ready to play next season."

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11947197

Mr. Flopnuts

03-19-2009, 10:11 AM

Bowlen challenges agent's claim of meeting with Cutler
By The Denver Post

Mar 19:

Broncos owner Pat Bowlen challenged a claim made by agent Bus Cook to NFL.com on Wednesday morning that he had lied to quarterback Jay Cutler, a Cook client.

"Jay was disappointed in the firing of Mike Shanahan and met with the owner," Cook told NFL.com. "The owner assured him everything would be fine. The owner said he had the second-best offense in football and would leave the offensive staff intact. Jay was good with that. Then he hires an offensive coach who gets rid of the staff."

Bowlen said Wednesday afternoon that he did not recall meeting with Cutler during the coaching search. Cutler left Denver the day before Mike Shanahan was fired and did not return until February.
Bowlen said he would like the Pro Bowl quarterback to stay with the Broncos but was unable to predict if that would happen.

"I would like to keep him here, obviously," Bowlen told NFL.com. "But if you are going to be an unhappy camper, there is no real reason to be here."

Bowlen was asked by NFL.com. if he has reservations about coach Josh McDaniels or the way he handled this matter.

"Obviously, I am not going to criticize the head coach," Bowlen said. "I think he was trying to be a head coach. As I see it, Jay got upset about things and his feelings were hurt, and here we are. I am not going to weigh in on who is to blame here. This whole incident has been written about and talked about, and I am moving on, personally. We're getting ready for the draft and ready to play next season."

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11947197

Thank you Pat Bowlen for lowering Jay's trade value by letting everyone know that since he doesn't want to be there, you're going to facilitate that for him.

03-19-2009, 10:35 AM

Thank you Pat Bowlen for lowering Jay's trade value by letting everyone know that since he doesn't want to be there, you're going to facilitate that for him.

I doubt Cutler will be going anywhere, mostly for that reason. With the circus that this affair has become, I don't see Denver being able to get anything close to a fair value in return. They might not want him and he might not want them but I'm guessing they're stuck with each other.

Sweet Daddy Hate

03-19-2009, 10:40 AM

SCChief

03-19-2009, 10:45 AM

Wait, wait! The latest rumor I heard from a Facebook site of a player who has an uncle who coaches a Peewee team in Denver (maybe the Donks?) was that Cutler would go in a three way trade with the Packers and World League Scottish Claymores for two of those cloth bags full of game balls from the Packers to the Donks, a case of cheese from the Packers to the Claymores, and Cutler and tickets to the next UFC event in Denver to the Claymores in return for a kicker to the Pack...

Print em for the Donks!

I can't think of any recent situation that has even remotely matched all the speculation I have seen revolving around Cutler. Fabulous job by his agent and the Donks keeping things insane out there!

Frankie

03-19-2009, 10:45 AM

sd4chiefs

03-19-2009, 10:46 AM

Do we need a separat forum for Cutler threads?

StcChief

03-19-2009, 10:49 AM

"They should be able to pick a quarterback off a roster and get two No. 1's - one this year and one next year." TWO #1 and a QB ROFL

Crush

03-19-2009, 10:51 AM

As for what the Broncos can expect in return, Correll Buckhalter told the Post while HIGH as a kite, "They should be able to pick a quarterback off a roster and get two No. 1's - one this year and one next year."

FYP

chop

03-19-2009, 10:54 AM

TWO #1 and a QB ROFL

That made me laugh also.

The guy does have promise but come on let's get real. These unnamed sources are funny.

DaKCMan AP

03-19-2009, 11:07 AM

That made me laugh also.

The guy does have promise but come on let's get real. These unnamed sources are funny.

Yeah, I think the unnamed source in this piece is Brian Xanders. ROFL

Kyle DeLexus

03-19-2009, 11:21 AM

Yeah, I think the unnamed source in this piece is Brian Xanders. ROFL

Or they are just gettin info off the mange and sayin NFL exec.

vailpass

03-19-2009, 11:39 AM

This article pretty much expresses my view of the whole thing, especially the part about Shannahan...

www.denverpost.com

Attention, Kmart shoppers. Let's address the Josh McDaniels-Jay Cutler matter, because I've gotten thousands of e-mails and comments on it, and it's the biggest story in Denver. Let me just take care of it right here and deal with some of the issues brought up by readers.

I get these he's-a-poor-whining-crybaby statements and questions. "He should shut up. He makes a lot of money."

I have a real problem here. I've had two jobs in my life from which I tried to walk away because I didn't want to work for my boss. It had nothing to do with money. It had to do with how we are treated, or even how we perceive we are treated.

Let's say you have a job that pays $25,000, and your boss wants to send you to Detroit to worse working conditions, and your boss lied to you, and his bosses aren't on your side, and you know the boss will continue to try to get rid of you. Are you a whining baby or a human being? What if someone who makes $12,000 says: "You make a lot of money. Shut up and take it." What would be your response?

I once told someone close to me I was quitting a very lucrative position -- not with my current employers -- because I was being disrespected, lied to and was not allowed to do what was in my (contractual) agreement, and they wanted to get rid of me, and I was miserable. "What about a man who has a family? He couldn't do that."

I was supporting three people at the time, and they were important to me, and I was determined I would find another job somewhere, somehow, and borrow money, or do whatever was necessary to get out of that situation.

The Patriot Way is alive and well here alongside the Rocky Mountains. If that weren't already obvious with new coach Josh McDaniels having signed three former Patriots since free agency started, it is clear in the way the new coach is handling his feud with quarterback Jay Cutler. It doesn't matter whether you make $1 million or $1. We want to be respected, loved even, but we don't want to be lied to.

So don't give me that garbage about how Cutler is whining, and he should shut up and play quarterback where he has been disrespected, lied to and lost two bosses that liked him, and where he obviously was unwanted.

So, blame it on Cutler if you want. But McDaniels said he had no intention of trading Cutler. Yet, he told a national columnist a few days ago, and I quote, "We were late to the dance." He was trying to get Matt Cassel. Maybe Cassel would be better for him, but he should have been honest with Cutler at that moment, right after Cutler was in town studying the new playbook, but he has that New England Patriots attitude.

I don't think either should go. McDaniels, the GM (whoever he is) and Pat Bowlen should have gotten on a plane, gone to Nashville, Tenn., and groveled. Bowlen said a few weeks ago, and I quote, "Obviously he (Cutler) is the man around here." Suddenly, he no longer is "the man," he's not any kind of man to the Broncos' new regime.

Cutler probably should give in, as another quarterback has told me, and realize it's a business. Well, no business should treat the employees that way. Some people just want to throw Cutler to Detroit for revenge. Many others say get rid of him, and don't even care if the Broncos get a quarterback in return.

Has anybody examined Chris Simms' background in Tampa Bay? I haven't heard anyone here call him a whining crybaby. I will have some information on his situation with the Bucs after he lost his spleen and how he was treated in my column on Sunday.
What about Bowlen? Totally messed this up.

Bus Cook, the gnarly agent for Cutler. Totally messed this up.

All four (and, I suppose, the general manager) have handled the entire matter so poorly, and it's easy to say a pox on all their houses. But work it out. Stop being the man who has the biggest ego. This country has battled other countries, and, in the end, you do what's best for everybody. John Kennedy demanded that the Soviet Union back down. What he also did quietly was agree to take the missiles and troops out of Turkey. Compromise. The Broncos don't need this. Their fans don't want this. Nobody can be happy.

Except somewhere, Mike Shanahan is smiling.

Woody Paige
Denver Post

gcbroncos

03-19-2009, 11:50 AM

TWO #1 and a QB ROFL

laugh all you want but just because you don't want it to happen doesn't change a thing...

the fact is at least 7 or 8 teams will at least inquire about Cutler (4 teams have already) and that will bring about quite the bidding war...

bring up his flaws if you wish but the reality is a physically gifted 25 yr old Pro Bowl QB will go for a king's ransom...in fact i can't think of what type player would go for more...

i hope we do indeed rape a team for Cutler...i'm tired of his whining just as much as the next fan right now...

do the math...with all Chad Johnson's antics just a year or so back, Cincy was still offered two 1st rounders for him (which they idioticly snubbed)...and Jared Allen went for ridiculous picks as did WR Roy Williams...

Katipan

03-19-2009, 11:57 AM

http://blog.mlive.com/highlightreel/2009/03/niyo_for_the_cost_stafford_pro.html

Niyo: For the rumored cost, Matthew Stafford probably a better option than Jay Cutler
Posted by Justin Rogers | MLive.com March 19, 2009 10:37AM
Here's one that might get you folks fired up.

Detroit News columnist John Niyo has a column today saying the Detroit Lions should pass on trying to trade for disgruntled Denver Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler.

Niyo says he can get over the public pouting and Cutler's average record at starter, but his acquisition comes with the burden of a new, probably very large contract and a breaking of the Lions' current plan of building through the draft.

March 19, Detroit News: So if the plan is to build through the draft -- and build in the trenches, where I can count on two or three fingers the number of starters under the age of 30 -- they'd better stick to it.
And if it's really going to take a package of draft choices, like the 20th and 33rd next month -- remember, the No. 1 pick is more poison pill than carrot -- plus another pick next year in lieu of a starting-caliber player, then I think the Lions should pass.

Niyo's point is excellent assuming that the Broncos are demanding three high-round picks over the next two seasons. Giving up three potential starters on a team that needs more than a dozen upgrades on their starting lineup is a tough price to pay.

Here's where Niyo might lose you.

At that price -- essentially trading three starters for one on a roster starving for more -- why not just draft Stafford and start grooming? He has the same arm, many of the same flaws, and he just might have more intangibles.
It's a difficult balance to find, and why most of us are not in the position to make personnel decisions for an NFL team. It's likely a new contract for Jay Cutler is going to be in the ballpark of the contract for the number one draft pick.

At what cost of draft picks does the known factors of Cutler's skills and NFL experience outweigh paying an unproven rookie quarterback a massive contract?

Brock

03-19-2009, 11:59 AM

Let's say you have a job that pays $25,000,

No, let's don't. Let's say you have a job that pays you 13 million dollars guaranteed, and it isn't even tied to your success or lack thereof. And you still have the gall to bitch when the organization thinks they might go in another direction? Hilarious.

Sweet Daddy Hate

03-19-2009, 12:02 PM

Coogs

03-19-2009, 12:03 PM

laugh all you want but just because you don't want it to happen doesn't change a thing...

the fact is at least 7 or 8 teams will at least inquire about Cutler (4 teams have already) and that will bring about quite the bidding war...

bring up his flaws if you wish but the reality is a physically gifted 25 yr old Pro Bowl QB will go for a king's ransom...in fact i can't think of what type player would go for more...

i hope we do indeed rape a team for Cutler...i'm tired of his whining just as much as the next fan right now...

do the math...with all Chad Johnson's antics just a year or so back, Cincy was still offered two 1st rounders for him (which they idioticly snubbed)...and Jared Allen went for ridiculous picks as did WR Roy Williams...

I really don't care what kind of compensation package Denver gets for Cutler. All I care about is how much of that compensation are the Broncos going to give the Chiefs to get their woody for Cassel rubbed out.

gcbroncos

03-19-2009, 12:08 PM

I really don't care what kind of compensation package Denver gets for Cutler. All I care about is how much of that compensation are the Broncos going to give the Chiefs to get their woody for Cassel rubbed out.

i don't see that happening at all...do you?...

that rumor sounds like BS to me...

why would Denver help KC and/or vice versa?...

i understand that Pioli and McD may have worked together but they're rivals now...

vailpass

03-19-2009, 12:09 PM

No, let's don't. Let's say you have a job that pays you 13 million dollars guaranteed, and it isn't even tied to your success or lack thereof. And you still have the gall to bitch when the organization thinks they might go in another direction? Hilarious.

Your post is incorrect. A large portion of Cutler's contract is tied directly to his success in the form of performance incentives.

Are you one of those guys who thinks that if you earn a large salary you should forfeit rights that those who earn less have?

Some are high earners because they are highly marketable. That doesn't mean you let your employers do/say anything they want to you. In fact, because you are highly marketable you have the ability to push back on your employers even more than a lower earner.

Don't be jealous because someone earns a high salary.

orange

03-19-2009, 12:13 PM

LMAO:thumb:

Hey, could you stop quoting that message? I tried to rep Brock and that stupid imbed covers up the rep box. I tried typing something but I have no idea what actually showed up. :doh!:

Coogs

03-19-2009, 12:14 PM

i don't see that happening at all...do you?...

:shrug: I don't have any idea. But there seems to still be a lot of smoke surrounding Cassel and the Broncos. Don't know if there is any fire or not, but it just doesn't seem to go away does it?

Now if I was Pioli, I wouldn't close any doors until I knew just how much Denver would offer up for Cassel. I would like to think that in building the Chiefs, that every person we have on the roster could be had for the right price as of the middle of March.

orange

03-19-2009, 12:16 PM

Your post is incorrect. A large portion of Cutler's contract is tied directly to his success in the form of performance incentives.

Are you one of those guys who thinks that if you earn a large salary you should forfeit rights that those who earn less have?

Some are high earners because they are highly marketable. That doesn't mean you let your employers do/say anything they want to you. In fact, because you are highly marketable you have the ability to push back on your employers even more than a lower earner.

Don't be jealous because someone earns a high salary.

Read Woody's whine again and compare it to what po', po' Jay has faced. I'm sure you'll realize Cutler's act is way over-the-top.

vailpass

03-19-2009, 12:16 PM

:shrug: I don't have any idea. But there seems to still be a lot of smoke surrounding Cassel and the Broncos. Don't know if there is any fire or not, but it just doesn't seem to go away does it.

Now if I was Pioli, I wouldn't close any doors until I knew just how much Denver would offer up for Cassel. I would like to think that in building the Chiefs, that every person we have on the roster could be had for the right price as of the middle of March.

I know this: if McKid did get Cassel from KC he had better win multiple superbowls immediately or all the shit he has caused over his man-crush will so not be worth it.

vailpass

03-19-2009, 12:17 PM

Read Woody's whine again and compare it to what po', po' Jay has faced. I'm sure you'll realize Cutler's act is way over-the-top.

I have no idea what you mean by this statement.

orange

03-19-2009, 12:18 PM

:shrug: I don't have any idea. But there seems to still be a lot of smoke surrounding Cassel and the Broncos. Don't know if there is any fire or not, but it just doesn't seem to go away does it.

Now if I was Pioli, I wouldn't close any doors until I knew just how much Denver would offer up for Cassel. I would like to think that in building the Chiefs, that every person we have on the roster could be had for the right price as of the middle of March.

Every team that's mentioned inquiring about Cutler, Cassel's name comes up in the rumors because of the original trade scenarios that started all this.

I doubt that Cassel is any more available now than he was then.

orange

03-19-2009, 12:19 PM

I have no idea what you mean by this statement.

Woody - "I once told someone close to me I was quitting a very lucrative position -- not with my current employers -- because I was being disrespected, lied to and was not allowed to do what was in my (contractual) agreement, and they wanted to get rid of me, and I was miserable. "What about a man who has a family? He couldn't do that."

I was supporting three people at the time, and they were important to me, and I was determined I would find another job somewhere, somehow, and borrow money, or do whatever was necessary to get out of that situation."

Cutler - "They tried to trade me one day, maybe. Now they say they won't, but I don't believe them because I'm crushed."

DeezNutz

03-19-2009, 12:20 PM

Your post is incorrect. A large portion of Cutler's contract is tied directly to his success in the form of performance incentives.

Are you one of those guys who thinks that if you earn a large salary you should forfeit rights that those who earn less have?

Some are high earners because they are highly marketable. That doesn't mean you let your employers do/say anything they want to you. In fact, because you are highly marketable you have the ability to push back on your employers even more than a lower earner.

Don't be jealous because someone earns a high salary.

I don't begrudge anyone else's success.

What I find repulsive, however, is when people try to make one-to-one comparisons with completely incomparable terms or numbers, which is the case with the Denver Post article.

vailpass

03-19-2009, 12:22 PM

Woody - "I once told someone close to me I was quitting a very lucrative position -- not with my current employers -- because I was being disrespected, lied to and was not allowed to do what was in my (contractual) agreement, and they wanted to get rid of me, and I was miserable. "What about a man who has a family? He couldn't do that."

I was supporting three people at the time, and they were important to me, and I was determined I would find another job somewhere, somehow, and borrow money, or do whatever was necessary to get out of that situation."

Cutler - "They tried to trade me one day, maybe. Now they say they won't, but I don't believe them because I'm crushed."

You quote Woody accurately but poorly paraphrase Cutler's position to suit your own point of view.
Woody summarizes Cutler's position thusly:

"your boss wants to send you to Detroit to worse working conditions, and your boss lied to you, and his bosses aren't on your side, and you know the boss will continue to try to get rid of you. Are you a whining baby or a human being?

The Patriot Way is alive and well here alongside the Rocky Mountains. ... it is clear in the way the new coach is handling his feud with quarterback Jay Cutler. It doesn't matter whether you make $1 million or $1. We want to be respected, loved even, but we don't want to be lied to.

So don't give me that garbage about how Cutler is whining, and he should shut up and play quarterback where he has been disrespected, lied to and lost two bosses that liked him, and where he obviously was unwanted.

So, blame it on Cutler if you want. But McDaniels said he had no intention of trading Cutler. Yet, he told a national columnist a few days ago, and I quote, "We were late to the dance." He was trying to get Matt Cassel. Maybe Cassel would be better for him, but he should have been honest with Cutler at that moment, right after Cutler was in town studying the new playbook, but he has that New England Patriots attitude. "

Brock

03-19-2009, 12:24 PM

Your post is incorrect. A large portion of Cutler's contract is tied directly to his success in the form of performance incentives.

Are you one of those guys who thinks that if you earn a large salary you should forfeit rights that those who earn less have?

Some are high earners because they are highly marketable. That doesn't mean you let your employers do/say anything they want to you. In fact, because you are highly marketable you have the ability to push back on your employers even more than a lower earner.

Don't be jealous because someone earns a high salary.

Bullshit. His contract calls for 11 million dollars guaranteed with a nearly 2 million dollar signing bonus. I'm one of those guys who thinks it's ridiculous to compare somebody making millions of dollars with someone making 25k. It's a retarded comparison for retards.

orange

03-19-2009, 12:24 PM

You quote Woody accurately but poorly paraphrase Cutler's position to suit your own point of view.

Why don't you phrase it correctly for me then. I'm all ears.

I see you edited in an explanation. It still comes down to one thing - the aborted trade. Cutler has not been "denied the opportunity to fulfill his contract" as Woody said, nor has anything been done to make him "miserable" on the job other than his personal hand-holder is gone.

"...and his bosses aren't on your side, and you know the boss will continue to try to get rid of you." - BS

And all that stuff afterwards about "the Patriot way" - you're saying Cutler is whining because he didn't get to pick his own boss? Too fucking bad.

vailpass

03-19-2009, 12:27 PM

I don't begrudge anyone else's success.

What I find repulsive, however, is when people try to make one-to-one comparisons with completely incomparable terms or numbers, which is the case with the Denver Post article.

Do you feel that someone earning under $100k has more of a right to being treated honestly and feeling respected and appreciated by their boss than someone who earns over $100k?

vailpass

03-19-2009, 12:28 PM

Why don't you phrase it correctly for me then. I'm all ears.

You chose to quote Woody so I followed suit. See edited post #33 above.

ChiefsCountry

03-19-2009, 12:30 PM

TWO #1 and a QB ROFL

That would be the going rate for a top flight QB or one who has the potential to be.

vailpass

03-19-2009, 12:30 PM

Bullshit. His contract calls for 11 million dollars guaranteed with a nearly 2 million dollar signing bonus. I'm one of those guys who thinks it's ridiculous to compare somebody making millions of dollars with someone making 25k. It's a retarded comparison for retards.

1. Cutler's contract this year contains a very low base and room to earn much more $ through incentives. Don't let your hate cloud the facts.

2.Your bias and jealousy regarding high earners make any further discussion with you on the subject pointless.

Brock

03-19-2009, 12:33 PM

1. Cutler's contract this year contains a very low base and room to earn much more $ through incentives. Don't let your hate cloud the facts.

2.Your bias and jealousy make any further discussion with you on the subject pointless.

1. Are you denying that he makes 13 million dollars regardless if he plays well or not? Check your facts.

2. I'm not jealous of anybody, I have everything I want. You're getting clowned.

rad

03-19-2009, 12:33 PM

1. Cutler's contract this year contains a very low base and room to earn much more $ through incentives. Don't let your hate cloud the facts.

2.Your bias and jealousy regarding high earners make any further discussion with you on the subject pointless.

I don't think many folks are jealous of CutLeaf anymore......

orange

03-19-2009, 12:38 PM

You chose to quote Woody so I followed suit. See edited post #33 above.

Got it. I answered in #35.

Yet, he told a national columnist a few days ago, and I quote, "We were late to the dance."

You also quoted this line from Woody. It wasn't just some generic "national columnist" - it was Peter King. You can actually read the whole article, and I suggest you do.

By Peter King

Quite an offseason we're having. The NFLPA elects someone no one outside the District of Columbia Bar Association has ever heard of to succeed the late Gene Upshaw -- and all he has to do is go head-to-head with Roger Goodell on the most important CBA negotiation in a generation. One of the rising star quarterbacks in football, Jay Cutler, moves closer and closer toward divorce court with the Broncos. And LaDainian Tomlinson, who was supposed to get his contract cut to smithereens in his renegotiation deal with the Chargers, actually did quite well. Maybe not well enough to retire a Charger, but close.

I'll tell you a few nuggets about the election of DeMaurice Smith as the new NFLPA head, but this story has been Don Banks' baby on this site all month, so please give him a read this morning. I'm going to lead with the Cutler story, following two chats I had with Denver coach Josh McDaniels late Sunday night. I got the sense he can't believe it's come to this duel at the OK Corral.

"I would probably be really good for Jay, and I know he would be really good for me,'' McDaniels told me over the phone from Denver. "I think that's the part that's shocking to me.''

That it probably will never happen, he means.

It makes no sense. None. When the Broncos report for the start of their offseason program this morning at their plush complex south of town, Cutler will be a no-show. I reported recently that Cutler wanted to be traded after the Broncos lost both Mike Shanahan (fired) and offensive coordinator Jeremy Bates (went to USC as offensive coordinator), and that message was delivered to the Denver front office. Now I expect Cutler, through agent Bus Cook, to reiterate his demand ... and what's more, I expect the Broncos to seriously consider it. Owner Pat Bowlen said Sunday night, "we might lose'' Cutler, though he was not specific about how, or why, or when, and Cutler told Chris Mortensen of ESPN he has asked Cook to formally request a trade.

Denver has to tread carefully here. McDaniels told me he is frustrated by Cutler's interpretation of a conference call and then an in-person meeting this weekend, and he still wants to talk with Cutler again face-to-face to see if they can iron out their differences. If McDaniels walks into his first meeting with his players this morning, and they think he's trying to kick Cutler to the curb, they're going to ask, "Why did Bowlen hire this idiot?''

But in the end, Denver will have to strongly consider trading Cutler. If you're a rookie coach, as McDaniels is, and you've got to set the right tone for the team, how can you have a quarterback who doesn't want to be there as your franchise leader? Parting with Cutler would be forcing the Broncos to start over at the game's most important position when they thought they had the position filled for the next decade. But Cutler, who is one of the best quarterback prospects to enter the NFL in years, can be moody, and if he never buys what McDaniels is selling, it could drag the team down.

How we got to this point, in chronological order:

McDaniels said he was not considering trading Cutler until he was contacted "by two teams'' at the Scouting Combine -- presumably Detroit and Tampa. They were pie-in-the-sky inquiries, though, and he didn't consider anything seriously, he said, until the day before the Feb. 27 beginning of free-agency, when he got a serious proposal for Cutler.

"This was a non-issue until Thursday [Feb. 26],'' McDaniels said. "There was obviously a scenario where teams figured we'd be interested in Matt Cassel, because I'd coached him in New England. When someone calls, I'm going to consider it, because that's my job.''

Cutler believes the Broncos were much more interested in trading him and signing Cassel than they've said. I asked McDaniels if he'd been interested in Cassel before the contact by the two teams at the combine, going back to when he knew Cassel might be on the market and available in trade from the Patriots. "No, that's totally untrue,'' he said.

McDaniels did pursue a deal with New England on the first day of free agency, but not intensely, he said, because he and Broncos general manager Brian Xanders were in the middle of doing six free-agent negotiations in the opening two days of free-agency. "I think we were too late to the dance,'' he said, meaning the Chiefs had already made the deal with New England -- a second-round pick for Cassel and linebacker Mike Vrabel. Denver would have given more, likely a first-round pick, but Patriots coach Bill Belichick had his deal done with the Chiefs.

"Do I understand about Jay being hurt that we'd consider this?'' McDaniels said. "Sure. But I can tell you that it wasn't like there was any grand plan by us to trade Jay Cutler. That wasn't the case. But when we've told them [Cutler and Cook], I think it's fallen on deaf ears.''

I texted Cutler and got no response. In his comments to Mortensen earlier, he said his time in Denver "had run its course,'' the rift between him and McDaniels is "not something they want to fix,'' that McDaniels -- in their meeting Saturday -- "made it clear he could still entertain trading me,'' and said the coach "made it clear he wants his own guy.''

I texted McDaniels, and shortly before 1 a.m. Eastern on Monday, he called to react to Cutler's words.

"Oh boy,'' he said, and sighed. "No, no, no. Nothing like that was conveyed.'' And he sighed again.

"I think the hangup is, 'Well, you considered doing it once, would you ever consider it again?' It keeps coming out like I want my own guy. Thinking we want to trade him now is totally opposite what we've been trying to do here ... We've been trying like hell for two weeks to get a face-to-face meeting.''

What frustrates McDaniels is that the two sides met -- he thinks without acrimony -- and then word gets out that there was tension or vindictiveness in the meeting. "It's hard to believe we're sharing the same intentions and can have such different interpretations of the meeting,'' he said. "When we met [Saturday], my point was, 'We all know where this was, and now we all have to try to move forward.' After we met for a while, and went over a lot of the same ground we'd been over, Jay said to me, 'Can I have a few more hours to think?' I said, 'Yeah, give me a call on my cell phone.' He never called. Bus [Cook] called Brian [Xanders], but Jay didn't call me.''

I asked McDaniels if he feels he'll be forced to trade Cutler.

"No,'' he said. "He's got three years left on his contract. We're not at the point where we're going to do it now ... [But] it's probably something we're going to have to talk about. We've been trying to communicate, and I still want to try, but if that's the direction we're headed, we're going to have to talk.''

There's such a gulf in the two versions of events. But it looks like, taking the long view, Cutler will be playing elsewhere unless he and McDaniels sit in a room together for two hours and come out married. That's not likely to happen. Maybe Cutler can't take the dissing he feels from McDaniels, or maybe he's fabricating the dissing to justify in his own mind going somewhere else. I don't know. But I do know this: If I had the choice of Denver, Tampa Bay, Detroit and the Jets, and the Denver coach has worked successfully with Tom Brady and Matt Cassel, I'd be thinking very hard about not burning a bridge that can't be reconstructed.
http://m.si.com/news/wr/wr/detail/1466967/full

vailpass

03-19-2009, 12:39 PM

1. Are you denying that he makes 13 million dollars regardless if he plays well or not? Check your facts.

2. I'm not jealous of anybody, I have everything I want. You're getting clowned.

Yeah sure Brock, got ya'.

vailpass

03-19-2009, 12:41 PM

Got it. I answered in #35.

You also quoted this line from Woody. It wasn't just some generic "national columnist" - it was Peter King. You can actually read the whole article, and I suggest you do.

http://m.si.com/news/wr/wr/detail/1466967/full

That King piece is old news. I still have absolutely no idea what point you are trying to make.
Could you be concise and direct?

Brock

03-19-2009, 12:41 PM

Yeah sure Brock, got ya'.

Sure "ya'" do.:rolleyes:

vailpass

03-19-2009, 12:45 PM

Sure "ya'" do.:rolleyes:

I'm sorry Brock if that sounded rude. I respect your posts and dig the pimp shoes in your avvy. I don't want to argue with you.

It's clear you believe that a high earner should be held to different standards than a lower earner based solely on their salary.
Whether you admit it or not that is a bias and it is wrong.
There is no point going any further.

orange

03-19-2009, 12:45 PM

That King piece is old news. I still have absolutely no idea what point you are trying to make.
Could you be concise and direct?

The Broncos have done and are doing everything possible to heal this. They have publicly stated Cutler's not on the trading block*. It's Cutler/Cook who are trying to force a trade. Cutler's embarassing spectacle is just trying to facilitate that.

What exactly do YOU want here? Should C/C's demands be met?

Realize one thing - McDaniels isn't going anywhere.

* anymore, if you insist.

Brock

03-19-2009, 12:46 PM

It's clear you believe that a high earner should be held to different standards than a lower earner based solely on their salary.
Whether you admit it or not that is a bias and it is wrong.
There is no point going any further.

That is merely your extrapolation of what I said. It's not worth refuting.

DeezNutz

03-19-2009, 12:47 PM

Do you feel that someone earning under $100k has more of a right to being treated honestly and feeling respected and appreciated by their boss than someone who earns over $100k?

Of course not.

But trying to correlate the 25k earner to the multi-millionaire is ridiculous. The only similarity is that they're both "workers."

This is the same type of logical prowess as those who compare Stafford/Sanchez to Ryan Leaf, simply because all these players are quarterbacks.

This is reductive and shallow analysis.

rad

03-19-2009, 12:48 PM

I'm sorry Brock if that sounded rude. I respect your posts and dig the pimp shoes in your avvy. I don't want to argue with you.

It's clear you believe that a high earner should be held to different standards than a lower earner based solely on their salary.
Whether you admit it or not that is a bias and it is wrong.
There is no point going any further.

I don't think it's that, more than it's the belief that any beefs need to be kept under wraps, as not to diminish your value in future negotiations, be it with your current, or prospective, employer.

orange

03-19-2009, 12:50 PM

Of course not.

But trying to correlate the 25k earner to the multi-millionaire is ridiculous. The only similarity is that they're both "workers."

This is the same type of logical prowess as those who compare Stafford/Sanchez to Ryan Leaf, simply because all these players are quarterbacks.

This is reductive and shallow analysis.

To take this further - that $13 million Cutler is getting paid has certain expectations - such as being a team leader and the public face of the organization - expectations he is NOT meeting.

vailpass

03-19-2009, 12:50 PM

The Broncos have done and are doing everything possible to heal this. They have publicly stated Cutler's not on the trading block.

Wrong. McKid and Bowlen failed to defuse this before it ever became an issue. They continue to make the situation worse not better.

It's Cutler/Cook who are trying to force a trade.
Maybe so. A HC with any grit in his craw would have shut this down long ago.

What exactly do YOU want here? Should C/C's demands be met?

I want a HC and GM that have at least a clue as to what they are doing. I want an organization that is the envy of the league as it has been for the last 15 years. I want the Broncos to be the Broncos not McKids wet dream. I want McKid to grow up and realize The Pats are in New England and they are not moving to Denver.

Realize one thing - McDaniel isn't going anywhere.
That is your opinion. He could be one-and-done just as likely as not. I've been following the Broncos closely since 1976. I don't need you to tell me how the org is run.
*

vailpass

03-19-2009, 12:52 PM

DeezNutz

03-19-2009, 12:52 PM

To take this further - that $13 million Cutler is getting paid has certain expectations - such as being a team leader and the public face of the organization - expectations he is NOT meeting.

I agree completely.

Vastly different salaries, and vastly different obligations and responsibilities. Thus comparing the two earners is futile at best.

"Fairness" is subjective in this light.

orange

03-19-2009, 12:53 PM

*

So answer my question - should they trade Cutler? That's what HE says he wants.

htismaqe

03-19-2009, 12:53 PM

vailpass

03-19-2009, 12:56 PM

I can't wait until Bronco fans run McDaniels out of town on a rail and he wins a Super Bowl somewhere else.

Hey, at least they got to keep Jeff...err - Jay - Cutler...who knew they were jealous of Raiders fans?

I'm much more worried about that with Shannahan than I am McKid. I can see Cutler getting traded then Shanny going to coach that team next year and tearing it up.

McKid might be a great game day coach, I don't know since he has never HC'ed a game in his life. My opinion on McKid is based solely on his off-field "performance" so far.

orange

03-19-2009, 12:56 PM

OMG feel free to join the real world.

When the Chargers fired Marty Schottenheimer, what did he say?

Schottenheimer did praise Spanos for making a difficult decision. "I don't disagree with it," the coach said. "I always put the team first."

The real world.

vailpass

03-19-2009, 12:56 PM

When the Chargers fired Marty Schottenheimer, what did he say?

Schottenheimer did praise Spanos for making a difficult decision. "I don't disagree with it," the coach said. "I always put the team first."

The real world.

ROFL Okay Rudy.

vailpass

03-19-2009, 12:56 PM

So answer my question - should they trade Cutler? That's what HE says he wants.

The team should do what is best for the team. Whatever they do the front office has to take charge and quit letting a single player push them around and make them look like clowns. They need the Godfather to shake them and say "you can act like a man!"

orange

03-19-2009, 12:59 PM

My opinion on McKid is based solely on his off-field "performance" so far.

I call BS on that, too. You've been dead-set against him from the moment Mike Shanahan was fired - long before he was even mentioned as a possibility.

I can dig up quotes if I have to.

vailpass

03-19-2009, 12:59 PM

I agree completely.

Vastly different salaries, and vastly different obligations and responsibilities. Thus comparing the two earners is futile at best.

"Fairness" is subjective in this light.

Different job descriptions? Of course.
Less of a right to demand honesty and respect from your employer. Absolutely not.

The high salary is throwing a lot of you off here.

orange

03-19-2009, 01:01 PM

ROFL Okay Rudy.

That's the way ADULTS behave in public. They don't drop their diapers like Cutler's doing.

vailpass

03-19-2009, 01:01 PM

I call BS on that, too. You've been dead-set against him from the moment Mike Shanahan was fired - long before he was even mentioned as a possibility.

I can dig up quotes if I have to.

:spock: Uh that's ok.

rad

03-19-2009, 01:02 PM

Different job descriptions? Of course.
Less of a right to demand honesty and respect from your employer. Absolutely not.

The high salary is throwing a lot of you off here.

You see my post? (#50)

vailpass

03-19-2009, 01:03 PM

You see my post? (#50)

I agree with what you say in that post.

Kyle DeLexus

03-19-2009, 01:03 PM

What exactly do YOU want here? Should C/C's demands be met?

I want a HC and GM that have at least a clue as to what they are doing. I want an organization that is the envy of the league as it has been for the last 15 years. I want the Broncos to be the Broncos not McKids wet dream. I want McKid to grow up and realize The Pats are in New England and they are not moving to Denver.

ROFLROFLROFL

They've been that for the last 15 years huh? I could have swore for most of the 2000's it's been the Pats, and I'm sure the Steelers fit in there somewhere but not the donks.

orange

03-19-2009, 01:04 PM

Different job descriptions? Of course.
Less of a right to demand honesty and respect from your employer. Absolutely not.

The high salary is throwing a lot of you off here.

The "dishonesty" of McDaniels and Bowlen has been incredibly exaggerated. They "spun" a more favorable version of the story but no more so than you with your "I base my dislike of McKid on his performance" nonsense above.

DaWolf

03-19-2009, 01:05 PM

As for what the Broncos can expect in return, an unnamed NFL executive told the Post, "They should be able to pick a quarterback off a roster and get two No. 1's - one this year and one next year."

Either that NFL executive is incompetent or that NFL executive is an executive of a rival team to a team that is looking to trade for Cutler, and is trying to drive up the bar by putting statements like this out there.

But hell, the Glazers were dumb enough to trade a bunch of top draft picks and money for Jon Gruden, I guess they could do it again...

orange

03-19-2009, 01:06 PM

The team should do what is best for the team. Whatever they do the front office has to take charge and quit letting a single player push them around and make them look like clowns. They need the Godfather to shake them and say "you can act like a man!"

What exactly does that mean? Trade him? Cut him? Or give him LOTS of money?

vailpass

03-19-2009, 01:07 PM

ROFLROFLROFL

They've been that for the last 15 years huh? I could have swore for most of the 2000's it's been the Pats, and I'm sure the Steelers fit in there somewhere but not the donks.

Like them or not the Broncos are an organization that has been rated among the most respected and desired among players around the league, other GMs and football people in general. This was based on the way they treated players, ran their business, etc.
If you don't know this you are either uninformed or biased.

DeezNutz

03-19-2009, 01:10 PM

Different job descriptions? Of course.
Less of a right to demand honesty and respect from your employer. Absolutely not.

The high salary is throwing a lot of you off here.

Honesty is one thing. Respect is a subjective term, however.

And the latter is why it seems that Cutler is so butthurt.

I could care less how much $ he makes. If anything, his earnings suggest a degree of "respect" far more than the average Joe, so why is he crying?

SenselessChiefsFan

03-19-2009, 01:14 PM

I doubt Cutler will be going anywhere, mostly for that reason. With the circus that this affair has become, I don't see Denver being able to get anything close to a fair value in return. They might not want him and he might not want them but I'm guessing they're stuck with each other.

The value of anything isn't determined by the seller. It is determined by supply and demand. If only one team wanted Cutler, the Broncos could ask for the moon and they still wouldn't get it.

But, several teams want Cutler. Therefore, what Bowlen says publicly will have little to no affect on the trade value of Cutler.

One team will have to give up more than the other teams to get him. So, the value has nothing to do with how much the Broncos want him, rather how much the other teams want him.

If you go to an auction, there is no question that the item is up for sale and the person doesn't want it anymore. That doesn't stop the bidding.

SenselessChiefsFan

03-19-2009, 01:18 PM

Like them or not the Broncos are an organization that has been rated among the most respected and desired among players around the league, other GMs and football people in general. This was based on the way they treated players, ran their business, etc.
If you don't know this you are either uninformed or biased.

I am sorry, but this is your own bias coming through loud and clear. Shanny was a great coach and well respected. Players went there because the Broncos were willing to overpay.

They have nice new facilities, a nice new stadium, an owner willing to spend money and a good fanbase. It wasn't like they were the Cardinals, but they weren't the 'envy of the league' either.

007

03-19-2009, 01:21 PM

I just love watching other AFC West teams experience meltdowns.

Kyle DeLexus

03-19-2009, 01:23 PM

Like them or not the Broncos are an organization that has been rated among the most respected and desired among players around the league, other GMs and football people in general. This was based on the way they treated players, ran their business, etc.
If you don't know this you are either uninformed or biased.

You said envy of the league. When I think envy of the league, well championships come to mind. So, I stand by my Pats and Steelers take in an unbiased opinion. The bottom line is "you play to win the game" NOT make friends, so you can say all you want about the players want to play here they are repected and treated fairly BS, and I'll still throw out the Pats and Steelers because they win championships.

vailpass

03-19-2009, 01:25 PM

Honesty is one thing. Respect is a subjective term, however.

And the latter is why it seems that Cutler is so butthurt.

I could care less how much $ he makes. If anything, his earnings suggest a degree of "respect" far more than the average Joe, so why is he crying?

I walked away from a corporate position and left behind a solid earnings and comp package because I didn't agree with the way the new regime was treating me.
Friends told me I was crazy. I started my own business and after a few years, some luck and God's grace I'm in better shape than ever.

The most important thing to me: I don't have to be dependent upon anyone else's like or dislike of me to earn my living. I'll never have a boss again.

I completely identify with why Cutler would feel that way. You call it crying but if you had the balls/wherewithal to do so you'd stand up to your boss if he was treating you wrong.

vailpass

03-19-2009, 01:26 PM

You said envy of the league. When I think envy of the league, well championships come to mind. So, I stand by my Pats and Steelers take in an unbiased opinion. The bottom line is "you play to win the game" NOT make friends, so you can say all you want about the players want to play here they are repected and treated fairly BS, and I'll still throw out the Pats and Steelers because they win championships.

You do realize you just quoted Herm Edwards don't you? From that I assumed your whole post was a joke and couldn't read anything you said afterwards, sorry.

Kyle DeLexus

03-19-2009, 01:28 PM

You do realize you just quoted Herm Edwards don't you? I couldn't read anything you said afterwards, sorry.

Yes I do realize that. I also realize I quoted my high school coach and almost every coach I've had since pop warner. They all said that before Herm made it a joke. Again the bottom line is, that is why you play the game on a professional level.

rad

03-19-2009, 01:30 PM

DeezNutz

03-19-2009, 01:30 PM

You call it crying but if you had the balls/wherewithal to do so you'd stand up to your boss if he was treating you wrong.

I guess I'd have to be more convinced that he's been disrespected, and that's my whole point.

It sounds like they thought about trading him. Big deal. That's life for a pro athlete. I don't consider this disrespect, and I currently don't consider Cutler's actions indicative of a person with "balls."

I'm guessing in your situation, the level of disrespect that you were encountering was far greater than anything akin to Cutler's situation.

vailpass

03-19-2009, 01:33 PM

Yes I do realize that. I also realize I quoted my high school coach and almost every coach I've had since pop warner. They all said that before Herm made it a joke. Again the bottom line is, that is why you play the game on a professional level.

Okay Mr. Lombardi, thanks a lot for that fresh news. Could you tell me whether or not water is wet?

rad

03-19-2009, 01:37 PM

Okay Mr. Lombardi, thanks a lot for that fresh news. Could you tell me whether or not water is wet?

You dismissed his post for using a phrase that EVERYONE in football uses, then flame him for explaining it. You need a nap.

BigRichard

03-19-2009, 01:39 PM

I walked away from a corporate position and left behind a solid earnings and comp package because I didn't agree with the way the new regime was treating me.
Friends told me I was crazy. I started my own business and after a few years, some luck and God's grace I'm in better shape than ever.

The most important thing to me: I don't have to be dependent upon anyone else's like or dislike of me to earn my living. I'll never have a boss again.

I completely identify with why Cutler would feel that way. You call it crying but if you had the balls/wherewithal to do so you'd stand up to your boss if he was treating you wrong.

You do realize there is a big difference between working a 9 to 5 job that you earn 20 dollars an hour at and one where you have a signed contract stating here is what you will do and I will pay you to do that. You signed the ****ing contract now shut the **** up and quit whining. That is where the difference is. If you signed a contract saying I will get rammed in the ass for 25,000 a year then you better like cock in your bum hole.

rad

03-19-2009, 01:43 PM

So like, Jay should quit and start his own team. By himself. The "Jay Cutlers"?

There's this...

You do realize there is a big difference between working a 9 to 5 job that you earn 20 dollars an hour at and one where you have a signed contract stating here is what you will do and I will pay you to do that. You signed the ****ing contract now shut the **** up and quit whining. That is where the difference is. If you signed a contract saying I will get rammed in the ass for 25,000 a year then you better like cock in your bum hole.

..and there's this.

Not to mention the whole "team" concept.

vailpass

03-19-2009, 01:49 PM

I guess I'd have to be more convinced that he's been disrespected, and that's my whole point.

It sounds like they thought about trading him. Big deal. That's life for a pro athlete. I don't consider this disrespect, and I currently don't consider Cutler's actions indicative of a person with "balls."

I'm guessing in your situation, the level of disrespect that you were encountering was far greater than anything akin to Cutler's situation.

McKid lied to Cutler. That's why I posted the article in this thread. Cutler doesn't have to take that shit off the new boss if he doesn't want to.
Cutler could have handled it better, yes. Bus Cook is taking advantage of the situation wanting to get a new contract while his client is a hot commodtiy before the uncapped year hits, definetely.

But if this was Shanny or Parcells or Cower or any other HC with real experience this situation would have been defused a long time ago and Cutler would either be happy and in camp or on another team.
McKid is getting run over by Cutler and Bus.

vailpass

03-19-2009, 01:53 PM

You do realize there is a big difference between working a 9 to 5 job that you earn 20 dollars an hour at and one where you have a signed contract stating here is what you will do and I will pay you to do that. You signed the ****ing contract now shut the **** up and quit whining. That is where the difference is. If you signed a contract saying I will get rammed in the ass for 25,000 a year then you better like cock in your bum hole.

:LOL:
Reality wants to know if you two could get together some time.

Kyle DeLexus

03-19-2009, 01:54 PM

Okay Mr. Lombardi, thanks a lot for that fresh news. Could you tell me whether or not water is wet?

IDK, why don't you tie yourself to a boulder and roll it into a fucking lake and we'll see?

vailpass

03-19-2009, 01:59 PM

There's this...

..and there's this.

Not to mention the whole "team" concept.

Could you be anymore obtuse? In the NFL every single player who achieves upper-tier status seeks a renegotiation of his contract. Almost all receive what they ask. Shall I point out examples on the Chiefs for you?

There is no team concept, it is a business. A business where if you get hurt you get cut no sorry, no nothing just cut. Career over.
That is the team concept.
So you treat the team like the team treats you. If you have the leverage to renegotiate a bigger contract you do it and you do it now. Tomorrow might be career ending injury day.
"Team concept". Could you be any more off base?

Katipan

03-19-2009, 02:00 PM

Could you be anymore obtuse? In the NFL every single player who achieves upper-tier status seeks a renegotiation of his contract. Almost all receive what they ask. Shall I point out examples on the Chiefs for you?

There is no team concept, it is a business. A business where if you get hurt you get cut no sorry, no nothing just cut. Career over.
That is the team concept.
So you treat the team like the team treats you. If you have the leverage to renegotiate a bigger contract you do it and you do it now. Tomorrow might be career ending injury day.
"Team concept". Could you be any more off base?

You just took all the romance out of it.

vailpass

03-19-2009, 02:01 PM

You just took all the romance out of it.

None of that cold logic applies to hot Flips, JSYK.

Mile High Mania

03-19-2009, 02:01 PM

I haven't read all these, but I'm fine with whatever happens at this point... I've tapped out, cried uncle and will accept whatever happens.

Katipan

03-19-2009, 02:02 PM

I haven't read all these, but I'm fine with whatever happens at this point... I've tapped out, cried uncle and will accept whatever happens.

You'd make a great Chiefs fan.

vailpass

03-19-2009, 02:02 PM

I haven't read all these, but I'm fine with whatever happens at this point... I've tapped out, cried uncle and will accept whatever happens.

If Bowlen canned McKid and rehired Shanny today what would you think?

Kyle DeLexus

03-19-2009, 02:02 PM

I haven't read all these, but I'm fine with whatever happens at this point... I've tapped out, cried uncle and will accept whatever happens.

Alright we'll give you Cassel for Cutler and #12 :)

Mile High Mania

03-19-2009, 02:10 PM

If Bowlen canned McKid and rehired Shanny today what would you think?

Personally, I do think it was time for Shanahan to go... I think he was mentally fried and needed a break.

I don't know if McJackass is worth his weight as a HC or not, but if we lose Cutler because of all of this... he has a short leash with me and really better kick ass sooner rather than later.

Mile High Mania

03-19-2009, 02:11 PM

Alright we'll give you Cassel for Cutler and #12 :)

Phhhhht...

rad

03-19-2009, 02:12 PM

Kyle DeLexus

03-19-2009, 02:13 PM

Phhhhht...

Well worth a shot, lets just home this McJackass you speak of doesn't write it off as quickly.

vailpass

03-19-2009, 02:24 PM

Personally, I do think it was time for Shanahan to go... I think he was mentally fried and needed a break.

I don't know if McJackass is worth his weight as a HC or not, but if we lose Cutler because of all of this... he has a short leash with me and really better kick ass sooner rather than later.

Agreed on all counts.

vailpass

03-19-2009, 02:26 PM

You were off base with the whole individual career vs NFL player analogy.

Pretty laughable.

BTW, Cutler has not reached upper-tier status. All he's doing is hurting his value. Nobody wants a whiner on their TEAM.

Cutler hasn't reached upper-tier status? Quick lesson for you: when trade talks involving you include the mention of the words "first round draft pick" you are upper tier.

htismaqe

03-19-2009, 02:29 PM

Chief Roundup

03-19-2009, 02:30 PM

Jay Cutler = Jeff George IMO

htismaqe

03-19-2009, 02:31 PM

Jay Cutler = Jeff George IMO

I wouldn't go that far.

YET.

Chief Roundup

03-19-2009, 02:33 PM

I wouldn't go that far.

YET.

Boy I don't know Rocket Arm Head Case seems to fit for both of them

Mile High Mania

03-19-2009, 02:34 PM

I still think you guys are WAY overvaluing Cutler.

I think he's a really good young QB with the potential of greatness... Cutler is entering his 3rd full year as the starter, and I think he really started doing some nice things in 2008 that give you reason to think he can be consistently ranked among the best for years to come.

I like QBs that are mobile, have big arms, can make a number of different passes and are creative... I think Jay falls in that area.

I think his value is solid.

stevieray

03-19-2009, 02:48 PM

I think he's a really good young QB with the potential of greatness... Cutler is entering his 3rd full year as the starter, and I think he really started doing some nice things in 2008 that give you reason to think he can be consistently ranked among the best for years to come.

I like QBs that are mobile, have big arms, can make a number of different passes and are creative... I think Jay falls in that area.

I think his value is solid.

...yet the game is 90% mental...especially for the QB...and here we are watching Cutler crack under pressure.

Mile High Mania

03-19-2009, 02:51 PM

...yet the game is 90% mental...especially for the QB...and here we are watching Cutler crack under pressure.

Sure, this is a mess, but I haven't seen him mentally meltdown on the field.

Kyle DeLexus

03-19-2009, 02:52 PM

Cutler hasn't reached upper-tier status? Quick lesson for you: when trade talks involving you include the mention of the words "first round draft pick" you are upper tier.

Gruden must have been a god of all coaches. I think Cutler has all the potential you could ask for and is a solid QB, but by what you just said Cassel is upper-tier or at the very least, depending on what rumors you choose to believe, damn near.

rad

03-19-2009, 02:56 PM

Cutler hasn't reached upper-tier status? Quick lesson for you: when trade talks involving you include the mention of the words "first round draft pick" you are upper tier.

Heh. Okay.

What did everyone think Cassel was going to fetch for the Pats?

Cassel is not upper tier.

How's that nap looking?

vailpass

03-19-2009, 03:13 PM

I still think you guys are WAY overvaluing Cutler.

You're a Chiefs fan, what the hell would you know about franchise quarterbacks?
:evil:

vailpass

03-19-2009, 03:17 PM

Heh. Okay.

What did everyone think Cassel was going to fetch for the Pats?

Cassel is not upper tier.

How's that nap looking?

You should quit while you are behind. I'd think you would have learned after that idiotic "team" statement you made earlier.
Everyone who knows anything about football knows that if teams are willing to trade a first-round draft pick for you that makes you an upper-tier player at your position.
Some day your team will have one and you'll know what I mean.

Hammock Parties

03-19-2009, 03:19 PM

You're a Chiefs fan, what the hell would you know about franchise quarterbacks?
Everyone who knows anything about football knows that if teams are willing to trade a first-round draft pick for you that makes you an upper-tier player at your position.

http://nbcsportsmedia2.msnbc.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/061121/061121_green_hmed_4p.hmedium.jpg

Pick an opinion and stick with it.

vailpass

03-19-2009, 03:21 PM

http://nbcsportsmedia2.msnbc.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/061121/061121_green_hmed_4p.hmedium.jpg

Pick an opinion and stick with it.

Trent Green is your best response? Hell I would have thought you would haul out toothless Joe Montana before Trint.
Please. I respect the guy and the offense was nice but tell me what team would have traded a player(s) and first round draft pick for him?

Hammock Parties

03-19-2009, 03:22 PM

Was Trent Green an upper-tier player at his position when the Chiefs traded for him?

vailpass

03-19-2009, 03:25 PM

Was Trent Green an upper-tier player at his position when the Chiefs traded for him?

No. He was a question mark coming back from a nasty exploded knee who had spent the most meaningful part of his career watching Kurt Warner eat his lunch and ear his ring.
Turned out to be a good move for KC for a couple of years.

Hammock Parties

03-19-2009, 03:28 PM

No. He was a question mark coming back from a nasty exploded knee who had spent the most meaningful part of his career watching Kurt Warner eat his lunch and ear his ring.
Turned out to be a good move for KC for a couple of years.

Doesn't that make your statement erroneous?

Everyone who knows anything about football knows that if teams are willing to trade a first-round draft pick for you that makes you an upper-tier player at your position.

rad

03-19-2009, 03:28 PM

Was Trent Green an upper-tier player at his position when the Chiefs traded for him?

He didn't even respond about Cassel, the dude is tired.

Hey, nobody has traded away 2 firsts for Cutlet yet, wonder why?

FAX

03-19-2009, 03:29 PM

Cutler hasn't reached upper-tier status? Quick lesson for you: when trade talks involving you include the mention of the words "first round draft pick" you are upper tier.

They may need to come up with an entirely new category for Cutler. He is a bit of a mystery. He has the physical tools, but has never had a winning season. He's gone to the pro-bowl, but he caves in at the mere thought of being traded (when it isn't his idea). He throws a good ball, but his interception ratio is high.

I understand your affection for the guy. I mean, he's your quarterback. (For the time being, anyhow.) But, I'm not sure whether he's "upper tier" or not, Mr. vailpass. I'm not sure anyone else knows, either. The team that picks up Cutler is taking a chance that he isn't one more bad Hochuli call away from dressing up like Lincoln and sticking green beans up his nose.

FAX

rad

03-19-2009, 03:30 PM

You should quit while you are behind. I'd think you would have learned after that idiotic "team" statement you made earlier.
Everyone who knows anything about football knows that if teams are willing to trade a first-round draft pick for you that makes you an upper-tier player at your position.
Some day your team will have one and you'll know what I mean.

Such an idiot...

Kyle DeLexus

03-19-2009, 03:30 PM

Trent Green is your best response? Hell I would have thought you would haul out toothless Joe Montana before Trint.
Please. I respect the guy and the offense was nice but tell me what team would have traded a player(s) and first round draft pick for him?

No. He was a question mark coming back from a nasty exploded knee who had spent the most meaningful part of his career watching Kurt Warner eat his lunch and ear his ring.
Turned out to be a good move for KC for a couple of years.

So now it's a player(s) and a first round pick? I thought it was a first round pick? And if it's a first round pick, that should make him upper-tier no?

Hammock Parties

03-19-2009, 03:31 PM

Vailpass has spun himself into a corner.

rad

03-19-2009, 03:34 PM

Vailpass has spun himself into a corner.

Well, now that that's taken care of, I think Jay winds up in Minnesota for #22..........All they need is a QB to be SB bound.

orange

03-19-2009, 03:37 PM

Well, now that that's taken care of, I think Jay winds up in Minnesota for #22..........All they need is a QB to be SB bound.

I had a look at the Pioneer Press yesterday - they've taken to calling him "Potential Viking Jay Cutler" in their articles.

Kyle DeLexus

03-19-2009, 03:37 PM

Well, now that that's taken care of, I think Jay winds up in Minnesota for #22..........All they need is a QB to be SB bound.

That would be a good trade for them really.

rad

03-19-2009, 03:43 PM

I had a look at the Pioneer Press yesterday - they've taken to calling him "Potential Viking Jay Cutler" in all their articles.

No shit?

It makes sense for Minnesota, although a later round pick may have to be thrown in along with #22....

bdeg

03-19-2009, 03:48 PM

#22 isn't enough, and I doubt McDaniels wants Tavaris Jackson or Sage Rosenfels. It'd cost the vikes at least their 1 and 2 if not more.

vailpass

03-19-2009, 03:54 PM

They may need to come up with an entirely new category for Cutler. He is a bit of a mystery. He has the physical tools, but has never had a winning season. He's gone to the pro-bowl, but he caves in at the mere thought of being traded (when it isn't his idea). He throws a good ball, but his interception ratio is high.

I understand your affection for the guy. I mean, he's your quarterback. (For the time being, anyhow.) But, I'm not sure whether he's "upper tier" or not, Mr. vailpass. I'm not sure anyone else knows, either. The team that picks up Cutler is taking a chance that he isn't one more bad Hochuli call away from dressing up like Lincoln and sticking green beans up his nose.

FAX

Anyplace you read outside of the Chiefs board has Cutler as a top-10 QB who will garner player and high-round draft pick(s) if traded. What more needs to be said?

vailpass

03-19-2009, 03:56 PM

Doesn't that make your statement erroneous?

[/I]

DV player-crush governed that move, nothing else.

vailpass

03-19-2009, 03:57 PM

Such an idiot...

Go ahead tell us all again how a player shouldn't want to renegotiate his contract, how he should think of the team instead. Tell us, Rudy.

Frazod

03-19-2009, 03:57 PM

Yes, only on ChiefsPlanet is Cutler an insulin-shooting diabetic and big game choker who cries like a little girl. LMAO

Coogs

03-19-2009, 03:58 PM

#22 isn't enough, and I doubt McDaniels wants Tavaris Jackson or Sage Rosenfels. It'd cost the vikes at least their 1 and 2 if not more.

I hope the get a Kings ransom for him. Since they think Cassel is better than Cutler, then we should receive all of that... and a bit more for sending Cassel to the foothills.

vailpass

03-19-2009, 03:59 PM

I hope the get a Kings ransom for him. Since they think Cassel is better than Cutler, then we should receive all of that... and a bit more for sending Cassel to the foothills.

Foothills? FOOTHILLS? Dude.

vailpass

03-19-2009, 04:00 PM

No shit?

It makes sense for Minnesota, although a later round pick may have to be thrown in along with #22....

Could you know any less about football business?

Kyle DeLexus

03-19-2009, 04:00 PM

Go ahead tell us all again how a player shouldn't want to renegotiate his contract, how he should think of the team instead. Tell us, Rudy.

Kurt Warner. Willing to knock 2 mill off what he wanted if Arizona resigns Bolden.

Larry Fitz offered some of his to Bolden as well.

Coogs

03-19-2009, 04:01 PM

Foothills? FOOTHILLS? Dude.

Mountains don't really start until you get West of the stadium do they?

vailpass

03-19-2009, 04:03 PM

Kurt Warner. Willing to knock 2 mill off what he wanted if Arizona resigns Bolden.

Larry Fitz offered some of his to Bolden as well.

After Kurt negotiated a new Deal.

Shall we now list all of the players who DO renegotiate their deals? Shall we start with KC players?
The entire list would crash this server.
Feel free to join the real world any time you like.

vailpass

03-19-2009, 04:04 PM

Mountains don't really start until you get West of the stadium do they?

Oh, yeah. Absolutely. The rise starts around Morrison. Grab a margarita then hit Red Rocks.
I thought you were belittling the Rockies Coogs.
My bad.

Coogs

03-19-2009, 04:11 PM

Oh, yeah. Absolutely. The rise starts around Morrison. Grab a margarita then hit Red Rocks.
I thought you were belittling the Rockies Coogs.
My bad.

God no! I absolutely love the Rockies! To bad they are not here in the middle of Kansas!

Kyle DeLexus

03-19-2009, 04:13 PM

After Kurt negotiated a new Deal.

Shall we now list all of the players who DO renegotiate their deals? Shall we start with KC players?
The entire list would crash this server.
Feel free to join the real world any time you like.

Kurt was a free agent....just a FYI, meaning he should negotiate because he has no contract.

Yes players renegotiate contracts, I know this. How come Cutler can't go out and lead his team to the playoffs before he pisses and moans about his contract. He sounds like he should be on Goodfellas with this **** you, pay me BS. The point is he signed the contract, now stop bitching and go play.

You seem to be arguing two very different points btw. On one hand you are saying he was disrespected for the whole trade thing coming up and he should be like you and get out and you feel for him on it. On another hand you seem to be saying that the whole problem is coming from his contract and that he should get a new deal....what is it? A trust issue or a money issue?

Sweet Daddy Hate

03-19-2009, 04:13 PM

Oh, yeah. Absolutely. The rise starts around Morrison. Grab a margarita then hit Red Rocks.
I thought you were belittling the Rockies Coogs.
My bad.

Boulder; where the suns sets at 4pm. :rolleyes:

tonyetony

03-19-2009, 04:15 PM

Anyplace you read outside of the Chiefs board has Cutler as a top-10 QB who will garner player and high-round draft pick(s) if traded. What more needs to be said?

Yep your right, and what's funny is watching you guys implode. Everyone knows top 10 QBs are easy to find. Heck even other NFL veteran QBs know how hard it is to be one of those top 10. How about asking Chris Simms, your new starting QB, about the struggle and determination it takes to just be in the top 50.

BTW your coach loves ......................ha ha ha.

vailpass

03-19-2009, 04:20 PM

Yep your right, and what's funny is watching you guys implode. Everyone knows top 10 QBs are easy to find. Heck even other NFL veteran QBs know how hard it is to be one of those top 10. How about asking Chris Simms, your new starting QB, about the struggle and determination it takes to just be in the top 50.

BTW your coach loves ......................ha ha ha.

Ouch! :cuss: I'm so hating this off-season and I can't argue with what you say here.

vailpass

03-19-2009, 04:21 PM

Boulder; where the suns sets at 4pm. :rolleyes:

Kid they would lock your stalker-ass up the minute you entered the People's Republic of Boulder as a public eyesore.

BTW, how's everything in Pine? Liar.

Sweet Daddy Hate

03-19-2009, 04:24 PM

Kid they would lock your stalker-ass up the minute you entered the People's Asspit of Boulder as a public eyesore.

BTW, how's everything in Pine? Liar.

ROFL God, you're a fucking douchebag!

FAX

03-19-2009, 04:24 PM

Anyplace you read outside of the Chiefs board has Cutler as a top-10 QB who will garner player and high-round draft pick(s) if traded. What more needs to be said?

Nothing more, I suppose. As I said, a lot of pundits and observers think a lot of Cutler - and for good reason. He has the physical tools, there's no question about it.

There are others, however, who have their doubts about the guy - and those peeps are justified in their opinion, too. You have to admit, Mr. vailpass, that he's surrounded by question marks ... kind of like that scene in Children Of The Corn where those spooky-ass, vacant-eyed kids converge on Vicky and start chanting, "Cutler is a douche ... Cutler is a douche."

I'm one of those who remain unconvinced that Cutler will ever be the true, "upper tier" guy that you and others have projected he'll become. The goats may well receive a #1 pick for him, but that team will be taking a risk on the guy because he's never had a winning season, his leadership abilities are in doubt, he turns the ball over, and he collects Barbie clothes.

FAX

rad

03-19-2009, 04:43 PM

Could you know any less about football business?

You're still here?

How do you mean? Cutler could fetch you a first and second. Or third. I didn't mention any players on purpose. Stop trying to act like you know more than me. You are a poster on a BB.

tonyetony

03-19-2009, 04:44 PM

and he collects Barbie clothes

Yeah I can see Bus Cook's office right after a Cutler meeting. Jays barbie and Bus's GI Joe's clothes strewn from one side of the office to the other. Bus probably never forgets to give him a sucker when he leaves.

rad

03-19-2009, 04:46 PM

Go ahead tell us all again how a player shouldn't want to renegotiate his contract, how he should think of the team instead. Tell us, Rudy.

I mentioned nothing of contracts. I commented on Jay's behavior and how it negatively impacts his value in the future.

You're taking this Cutler thing kinda hard, huh?

Sweet Daddy Hate

03-19-2009, 04:55 PM

I mentioned nothing of contracts. I commented on Jay's behavior and how it negatively impacts his value in the future.

You're taking this Cutler thing kinda hard, huh?

The butt hurt is strong in this one...:fire:

rad

03-19-2009, 04:56 PM

The butt hurt is strong in this one...:fire:

Yeah it is......I feel bad for him. Kinda.

Well, maybe not.

Sweet Daddy Hate

03-19-2009, 04:59 PM

Yeah it is......I feel bad for him. Kinda.

Well, maybe not.

LMAO FailAss rides again! :shake: