Lions taking Smith means Chiefs trading down?

[journeyscarab]

Could this be the situation for the Chiefs if the Lions take Smith and Rams take Monroe, could this mean teams like Denver, New York Jets, 49ers, and Vikings move up to our spot and we get their first and other picks?

[keg in kc]

Hopefully.

[journeyscarab]

I would love to see this situation happen so we can get a decent pick in the first round like Everette Brown in a lower position and gain back our 2nd rounder.

[htismaqe]

My ideal scenario.

[Kylo Ren]

TRADE DOWN!

[The Franchise]

The question is....how far do you trade down?

Jaguars at 8? Garrard is over 30 and they could use a QB to sit behind him for 1-2 years.
49ers at 10? They really don't have a sure fire QB on the roster right now.
Jets at 17?
Bucs at 19?
Vikings at 22?

[RustShack]

I don't get why people assume every year it has to be our pick teams trade for.

[journeyscarab]

I'd say Jaguars or 49ers because 1. They are closer to our pick, they arn't in the division, and you could get Everette Brown or Brian Orakpo or Cushing near these two picks. I really like this scenario. I think it's a great situation. We need more picks.

[The Franchise]

FWIW.....getting as close to the draft value chart...it would take this for the above mentioned teams.

Jaguars - #8 and #39 for a total of 1910 points
49ers - #10 and #43 for a total of 1770
Jets - #17, #52 and #111 for a total of 1402

The #3 pick is worth 2200 points. So anything after #10 and the value starts to drop off a lot.

[Kyle DeLexus]

I just don't think we'll be able to find any takers unless we throw the draft value chart out the window.

[penchief]

I just don't think we'll be able to find any takers unless we throw the draft value chart out the window.

Trading down is the ideal scenario but if we get stuck with the third pick I'd have to say the best move would be to take Monroe if he is there. You can't go wrong by building a dominant offensive line.

[The Franchise]

I just don't think we'll be able to find any takers unless we throw the draft value chart out the window.

Oh...if we trade down....then I don't see us getting the greatest value out of it. Unless Pioli finds a way to get a pick from next years as well.

[The Franchise]

Trading down is the ideal scenario but if we get stuck with the third pick I'd have to say the best move would be to take Monroe if he is there. You can't go wrong by building a dominant offensive line.

:spock:

[htismaqe]

I don't get why people assume every year it has to be our pick teams trade for.

Because Stafford might be a hot commodity if the 1st two teams pass on him. If we give people the idea we're going to take him, there's no reason we can't entertain some offers.

FWIW.....getting as close to the draft value chart...it would take this for the above mentioned teams.

Jaguars - #8 and #39 for a total of 1910 points
49ers - #10 and #43 for a total of 1770
Jets - #17, #52 and #111 for a total of 1402

The #3 pick is worth 2200 points. So anything after #10 and the value starts to drop off a lot.

Picks from next year will almost assuredly be involved.

[htismaqe]

Trading down is the ideal scenario but if we get stuck with the third pick I'd have to say the best move would be to take Monroe if he is there. You can't go wrong by building a dominant offensive line.

If Stafford is there and we can't trade down, we should take him. If not him, then Curry or Brown before Monroe.

[DaneMcCloud]

I'd say Jaguars or 49ers because 1. They are closer to our pick, they arn't in the division, and you could get Everette Brown or Brian Orakpo or Cushing near these two picks. I really like this scenario. I think it's a great situation. We need more picks.

:Lin:

I'm all for trading down (and have been saying so for over a month) but I wouldn't choose any of those players.

[BigRedChief]

If Stafford is there and we can't trade down, we should take him. If not him, then Curry or Brown before Monroe.
Agree, Stafford has more potential trade value than Curry. Or Cassel can be traded then. Either way we can get more for the #3 pick than just taking Curry. But pioli is well aware of this.

[Delano]

Picks from next year will almost assuredly be involved.

An extra first rounder next year would be SWELL.

[DaneMcCloud]

I just don't think we'll be able to find any takers unless we throw the draft value chart out the window.

That's exactly what will have to happen.

And honestly, who cares? I'd rather have a lower first, a second and a fifth than taking a player at #3 that doesn't merit the spot.

[Micjones]

I think trading down to #10 would be ideal.
We could draft Everette Brown, regain our #2, and pick up a #3.

[keg in kc]

The value chart probably is out the window this year, but that doesn't necessarily mean a horrible deal. And I agree, Brown or even Curry before Monroe, and Stafford possibly before them all if he's there.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

I just don't think we'll be able to find any takers unless we throw the draft value chart out the window.

I agree. It has to be close, but we may as well forget about getting full value unless it's a mix of picks and a player.

[The Franchise]

I'd trade down to #8 and take Sanchez.

[DeezNutz]

I'd say Jaguars or 49ers because 1. They are closer to our pick, they arn't in the division, and you could get Everette Brown or Brian Orakpo or Cushing near these two picks. I really like this scenario. I think it's a great situation. We need more picks.

If we'd trade down and select Orakpo, I'll be shopping for a new television.

[penchief]

If Stafford is there and we can't trade down, we should take him. If not him, then Curry or Brown before Monroe.

I think the only way we trade down is if Stafford is still there. I wouldn't complain about taking Stafford if we couldn't get decent value but I like the idea of a dominant offensive line. And LTs are about as valuable as pass rushing DEs. Monroe would step right in and contribute just as easily as Albert did, IMO.

[DeezNutz]

I think the only way we trade down is if Stafford is still there. I wouldn't complain about taking Stafford if we couldn't get decent value but I like the idea of a dominant offensive line. And LTs are about as valuable as pass rushing DEs. Monroe would step right in and contribute just as easily as Albert did, IMO.

Two is better than one! Wait...

[Kyle DeLexus]

I think the only way we trade down is if Stafford is still there. I wouldn't complain about taking Stafford if we couldn't get decent value but I like the idea of a dominant offensive line. And LTs are about as valuable as pass rushing DEs. Monroe would step right in and contribute just as easily as Albert did, IMO.

Two is better than one! Wait...

Yeah....we already have a LT soooo I don't get what your saying.

[DaWolf]

When we hear over and over that the 3-4 is preferred by teams like Pittsburgh and NE because it is "easier to find linebackers" I have a hard time imagining us using a #3 pick on a linebacker unless it is Ray Lewis. That's not to say it won't happen, but I've got to believe Pioli might also be thinking linebackers can be had later.

A lot of it might also depend on what happens if Waters is traded. Do they move Albert to guard?

I can only imagine though the can of worms that will be opened if Stafford is there at #3 and we trade down, that deal will forever be Pioli's legacy as he either passed on an average to mediocre NFL QB or he passed on a terrific NFL QB.

[DeezNutz]

Yeah....we already have a LT soooo I don't get what your saying.

We could have another! Two LT's FTW111

[penchief]

Yeah....we already have a LT soooo I don't get what your saying.

I don't disagree with the opinion that we shouldn't do it. I just think that if we get stuck with the third pick that an elite LT is probably going to be the best value we can get. Better than reaching to fill a need. Albert is athletic enough and versatile enough to play both RT and LG. We can't go wrong by building a dominant offensive line.

[Mecca]

I don't disagree with the opinion that we shouldn't do it. I just think that if we get stuck with the third pick that an elite LT is probably going to be the best value we can get. Better than reaching to fill a need. Albert is athletic enough and versatile enough to play both RT and LG. We can't go wrong by building a dominant offensive line.

It'll look real smart when Alberts contract is up and we either have to let him go or have 2 OT's that make about 130 million dollars between them.

[Mr. Arrowhead]

I think the best option for us is to trade down and draft Everette Brown

[Titty Meat]

Trade down draft Raji. Nobody mentioned Raji howcome? It'd be funny seeing that 3-4 with Tank Tyler as the NG.

[journeyscarab]

:Lin:

I'm all for trading down (and have been saying so for over a month) but I wouldn't choose any of those players.

than who would you select? Andre Smith? Crabtree????

[journeyscarab]

I think the best option for us is to trade down and draft Everette Brown

:clap: i agree, good d end better than Hali and the others

[htismaqe]

I don't disagree with the opinion that we shouldn't do it. I just think that if we get stuck with the third pick that an elite LT is probably going to be the best value we can get. Better than reaching to fill a need. Albert is athletic enough and versatile enough to play both RT and LG. We can't go wrong by building a dominant offensive line.

Monroe isn't even as good a prospect as Albert was coming out because he isn't as versatile. Monroe can't play any other position.

What are we going to do if we hit training camp and ALBERT is the best LT on the roster? Everybody just assumes we'll move Albert to make room for Monroe but why would we do that if Monroe isn't an upgrade? What you end up with is Monroe sitting on the bench because he doesn't have a position.

[htismaqe]

:clap: i agree, good d end better than Hali and the others

He's gonna be a 3-4 OLB for us, or anybody else.

[Pitt Gorilla]

If Stafford is there and we can't trade down, we should take him. If not him, then Curry or Brown before Monroe.That's what I was thinking. However, if Stafford is there, somebody WILL trade up. He's the best QB in the draft and his Wonderlick score certainly didn't hurt his value. I imagine we would be fielding offers from quite a few teams and someone will offer a great deal.

[Titty Meat]

Drafting Stafford would be stupid. The Chiefs already have a franchise QB and are paying him 14.5 mil. Stafford would want more. You're going to spend over 100 mil in Qb's? Thats silly.

[Mecca]

Drafting Stafford would be stupid. The Chiefs already have a franchise QB and are paying him 14.5 mil. Stafford would want more. You're going to spend over 100 mil in Qb's? Thats silly.

It's better than spending 100 mill in OT's, you can always trade a QB for high value.

[BigCatDaddy]

I brought this up in another thread, but Is there any reason Seattle doesn't get scared someone else if wanting to move up? Hassellbeck is 34 years old next year and they have a new coach who might not be committed to Matt. Would would it cost them to move up to our spot.. 2nd or 3rd? Just a thought. I hadn't seen them mentioned much and it seems more likely to get a deal done with a team right behind you in the 1st round. I know we would like to move up more, but teams might not want to part with what it would take.

[DeezNutz]

It's better than spending 100 mill in OT's, you can always trade a QB for high value.

And it would look monumentally stupid if Stafford ends up being Elway II.

Elite QB's are overrated.

[DaneMcCloud]

I think the best option for us is to trade down and draft Everette Brown

So, you're convinced that Brown is going to be a game-changing, pass rushing sack monster? Terrell Suggs?

I'm not.

[DaneMcCloud]

than who would you select? Andre Smith? Crabtree????

Fuck no.

JFC.

Another left tackle who by all accounts, has motivational issues or a receiver who's 2 inches shorter than reported, has a cracked foot, can't run a 40 and played in the spread?

Those are my only options?

WTF?

[Fish]

I think the best option for us is to trade down and draft Everette Brown

Trading down from #3 is hard enough. To plan to trade down and target a specific player is asking for the impossible...

[BigCatDaddy]

Trading down from #3 is hard enough. To plan to trade down and target a specific player is asking for the impossible...

Uness you only trade down 1 spot.

[Fish]

Uness you only trade down 1 spot.

touché....

[Mecca]

Everette Brown is a bit more refined than most of the past FSU prospects as he has the speed they all have had but he also does have moves.

[Titty Meat]

Everette Brown is a bit more refined than most of the past FSU prospects as he has the speed they all have had but he also does have moves.

Weren't you saying the other day that you weren't sure about Brown cause he was from Fsu?

[doomy3]

It's better than spending 100 mill in OT's, you can always trade a QB for high value.

If that's the case, I wonder what the Browns will end up getting for Quinn if they decide to move him

[Mecca]

Weren't you saying the other day that you weren't sure about Brown cause he was from Fsu?

It is something to be wary of but at the same time the prospect he's competing with is also from a program with a bad pedigree..

Generally what I'd do then is compare him to the past prospects of the school and Brown is more refined, most FSU rushers coming out were like say Aaron Maybin, all speed and nothing else.

Brown actually uses a bullrush and speed rush and a spin move working them all off each other.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

I don't get why people assume every year it has to be our pick teams trade for.

Well, no one assumes that it has to be our pick that a team would trade for. However, we all know that our pick is one that teams 'could' trade for.

The Chiefs had an offer to trade down last year, but passed. I have more faith in this GM's ability to capitalize on draft day trades. Call me crazy.

[bdeg]

When we hear over and over that the 3-4 is preferred by teams like Pittsburgh and NE because it is "easier to find linebackers" I have a hard time imagining us using a #3 pick on a linebacker unless it is Ray Lewis. That's not to say it won't happen, but I've got to believe Pioli might also be thinking linebackers can be had later.


This is a good observation. But the Pats DID pay huge money for Adalius Thomas in FA. I think they do put a high value on the position, and don't always depend on finding them late in the draft.

[Mecca]

If finding rush backers is easy why are guys like DaMarcus Ware, Shawne Merriman etc all really high draft picks?

[bdeg]

Well, no one assumes that it has to be our pick that a team would trade for. However, we all know that our pick is one that teams 'could' trade for.

The Chiefs had an offer to trade down last year, but passed. I have more faith in this GM's ability to capitalize on draft day trades. Call me crazy.

Oh man, how sweet does that deal from the Saints look now? If only...

[doomy3]

If finding rush backers is easy why are guys like DaMarcus Ware, Shawne "roidman" Merriman etc all really high draft picks?

I don't know. Why are 5 of the top ten rush backers drafted in the third or later? 7 of the top 15?

[bdeg]

If finding rush backers is easy why are guys like DaMarcus Ware, Shawne "roidman" Merriman etc all really high draft picks?

It WAS something that I saw repeated quite a bit on here when discussing whether or not we're going to make the switch. But first off, there isn't the same competition for these guys in the draft, especially in the past with fewer 3-4 teams. Secondly, very few positions have a greater impact.

[bdeg]

I don't know. Why are 5 of the top ten rush backers drafted in the third or later? 7 of the top 15?

Scouting isn't perfect, and like I said there was not the same competition for these guys in the past that there will be now.

And I believe you're referring to my stats, which also took into account 4-3 DE's.

[Mecca]

I don't know. Why are 5 of the top ten rush backers drafted in the third or later? 7 of the top 15?

Also that whole finding them later because you are 3-4 and they don't fit 4-3 schemes doesn't fit very well now since half the league has moved to 3-4.

Anymore most anyone who can pass rush is going to be drafted high, and yes there will be some exceptions of guys who develop who were low drafted.

[Mecca]

It WAS something that I saw repeated quite a bit on here when discussing whether or not we're going to make the switch. But first off, there isn't the same competition for these guys in the draft. Especially in the past with fewer 3-4 teams. Secondly, very few positions have a greater impact.

There isn't fewer teams now about half the league has switched to 3-4.

[bdeg]

There isn't fewer teams now about half the league has switched to 3-4.

You misread my post, we're in agreement.

[Direckshun]

I'm sorry but if we're sitting at #3 and both Strafford and Sanchez are sitting there AND WE PASS FOR CASSELL, I will officially declare strike 1 on Pioli.

[DaneMcCloud]

If finding rush backers is easy why are guys like DaMarcus Ware, Shawne "roidman" Merriman etc all really high draft picks?

Rush backers that are found in rounds 2 & 3 (or later) are generally dependent on the existing talent.

Finding a true, game changing pass rusher beyond round one is difficult. A guy that could play on any defense in the league and still wreak havoc is rare.

[ChiefRon]

All the teams at the top are wanting to trade down.

It hasn't happened in the top 5 since 2003, IIRC.

Of course that would be the ideal scenario for us, but I seriously doubt it happens this year...

Maybe that's why we haven't had any talks of a long-term contract w/Cassel.

[DaneMcCloud]

All the teams at the top are wanting to trade down.

It hasn't happened in the top 5 since 2003, IIRC.

Of course that would be the ideal scenario for us, but I seriously doubt it happens this year...

Maybe that's why we haven't had any talks of a long-term contract w/Cassel.

So you're saying that St. Louis, Seattle, Cleveland & Detroit all want to trade down?

That's certainly the first time I've every heard that. Where did you gain this information?

[Frankie]

The question is....how far do you trade down?

Jaguars at 8? Garrard is over 30 and they could use a QB to sit behind him for 1-2 years.
49ers at 10? They really don't have a sure fire QB on the roster right now.
Jets at 17?
Bucs at 19?
Vikings at 22?

Actually I wouldn't have any problem with even trading THAT far down and loading up on draft picks (2-4) and/or talented vets.

[JohnnyV13]

Rush backers that are found in rounds 2 & 3 (or later) are generally dependent on the existing talent.

Finding a true, game changing pass rusher beyond round one is difficult. A guy that could play on any defense in the league and still wreak havoc is rare.

We pulled off this feat with Jared Allen. Allen was a well disguised prospect in that he went to a small school AND he is more of a "leverage" rusher than a pure speed guy. For example, Allen only benched 13 strength reps at the combine, yet Vermeil talked about how strong he was during his rookie camp. That's very much the mode of a leverage rusher.

[Go Mizzou & Chiefs]

If Stafford is there and we can't trade down, we should take him. If not him, then Curry or Brown before Monroe.

:shake:

[DaneMcCloud]

We pulled off this feat with Jared Allen. Allen was a well disguised prospect in that he went to a small school AND he is more of a "leverage" rusher than a pure speed guy. For example, Allen only benched 13 strength reps at the combine, yet Vermeil talked about how strong he was during his rookie camp. That's very much the mode of a leverage rusher.

ONE guy in 45 years.

Do you like those odds?

And no offense to you personally Mr. V, but quoting Dick Vermeil on personnel matters is like quoting Alec Baldwin on political matters.

Neither opinion is worth a shit.

[DaneMcCloud]

:shake:

Your and idiot

[penchief]

Monroe isn't even as good a prospect as Albert was coming out because he isn't as versatile. Monroe can't play any other position.

What are we going to do if we hit training camp and ALBERT is the best LT on the roster? Everybody just assumes we'll move Albert to make room for Monroe but why would we do that if Monroe isn't an upgrade? What you end up with is Monroe sitting on the bench because he doesn't have a position.

I don't disagree with your logic. I just think Monroe is as much of a sure bet as anyone at the top of the draft. That said, I wouldn't have an issue with drafting Stafford if he's there.

[Pioli Zombie]

Oh...if we trade down....then I don't see us getting the greatest value out of it. Unless Pioli finds a way to get a pick from next years as well.
This is what the Patriots tried to do every year. Get a low #1 this year and a #1 in 2010. Your not just in it for 2009. You are in it for the long run.
It ticks people off on draft day who want the immediate gratification. But it builds a powerhouse.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Titty Meat]

I'm sorry but if we're sitting at #3 and both Strafford and Sanchez are sitting there AND WE PASS FOR CASSELL, I will officially declare strike 1 on Pioli.

What? You're going to pay 100 million to two QB's? Atleast if you draft another LT both can play. Drafting Stafford would be STUPID especially when theres some studs at 3 like Brown or Raji.

[The Franchise]

What? You're going to pay 100 million to two QB's? Atleast if you draft another LT both can play. Drafting Stafford would be STUPID especially when theres some studs at 3 like Brown or Raji.

Cassell hasn't signed a contract. What happens if we don't sign him to a contract.....and he sucks?

[Titty Meat]

Cassell hasn't signed a contract. What happens if we don't sign him to a contract.....and he sucks?

He's here for 2 years we can Franchise him again after this season. What if he's good? We'll be paying 2 QB's 100 million in cap thats silly. Plus if you have 2 QB'S you really don't have any. We should be building the defense through the draft.

[Mecca]

Uh if you have 2 QB's you can always trade one no position has higher value not to mention Stafford is 21 years old it's not like you'd kill him by sitting him a year or 2.

[Titty Meat]

Uh if you have 2 QB's you can always trade one no position has higher value not to mention Stafford is 21 years old it's not like you'd kill him by sitting him a year or 2.

You're going to draft a player and sit him for 2 years to use him for trade bait opposed to drafting a guy who can get after the QB or a good D-tackle? Cassel is the franchise QB folks get over it.

[sparkky]

I would think teams that want Stafford and have cap room for the #3 could be the most likely to make a deal.

[Mecca]

You're going to draft a player and sit him for 2 years to use him for trade bait opposed to drafting a guy who can get after the QB or a good D-tackle? Cassel is the franchise QB folks get over it.

No I'm going to sit him for a year or 2 then trade Cassel...

I think the folks that think Cassel is going to be the franchise QB are in for a disappointment.

[Mecca]

I would think teams that want Stafford and have cap room for the #3 could be the most likely to make a deal.

Yea like who Tampa?

Dropping to 19 is pretty much insane not to mention they don't even have the picks to get the deal done.

[Titty Meat]

No I'm going to sit him for a year or 2 then trade Cassel...

I think the folks that think Cassel is going to be the franchise QB are in for a disappoinment.

We'll see I think the people who say Stafford will be the next John Elway are in for a disappointment. Moreno carried that offense.

[SBK]

You're going to draft a player and sit him for 2 years to use him for trade bait opposed to drafting a guy who can get after the QB or a good D-tackle? Cassel is the franchise QB folks get over it.

I would draft Stafford then trade Cassel, either this year or next for another 1.

[SBK]

We'll see I think the people who say Stafford will be the next John Elway are in for a disappointment. Moreno carried that offense.

You don't live in SEC country do you?

[Mecca]

We'll see I think the people who say Stafford will be the next John Elway are in for a disappointment. Moreno carried that offense.

Yea 3 year starters that play in the top conference as true freshman with elite physical tools that drop 38's on their wonderlic are just a dime a dozen right?

It doesn't matter who the top QB is or what he has, a portion of this fan base will want no part of him then turn around and pine for a linebacker.

[Titty Meat]

Yea 3 year starters that play in the top conference as true freshman with elite physical tools that drop 38's on their wonderlic are just a dime a dozen right?

It doesn't matter who the top QB is or what he has, a portion of this fan base will want no part of him then turn around and pine for a linebacker.

You could say the same about Josh Freeman that doesn't mean shit. I do know that we have a QB that can throw for over 20 TDS and 300 yards in a game.

[keg in kc]

You could say the same about Josh Freeman that doesn't mean shit. I do know that we have a QB that can throw for over 20 TDS and 300 yards in a game.That's a hell of a game, 20 TDs and 300 yards.

[Mecca]

You could say the same about Josh Freeman that doesn't mean shit. I do know that we have a QB that can throw for over 20 TDS and 300 yards in a game.

Comparing Freeman to Stafford....that's funny.

See like I said the top QB prospects will always be railed by Chiefs fans, while they pine for the LB's who don't rush the passer or RT's.

[Titty Meat]

Comparing Freeman to Stafford....that's funny.

See like I said the top QB prospects will always be railed by Chiefs fans, while they pine for the LB's who don't rush the passer or RT's.

Brown doesn't rush the passer and Raji plays RT? Thats interesting. I guess Stafford will be a great NFL QB like he was aginst that awesome Tennesee team this year or Vanderbilt.

[Mecca]

Brown doesn't rush the passer and Raji plays RT? Thats interesting. I guess Stafford will be a great NFL QB like he was aginst that awesome Tennesee team this year or Vanderbilt.

BJ Raji is frankly a rationalization pick...me personally I'm not a fan of drafting guys who are to stupid to stay academically eligible when they are taking athlete classes.

And most of this thread is about how people don't want Brown.

[DaneMcCloud]

We'll see I think the people who say Stafford will be the next John Elway are in for a disappointment. Moreno carried that offense.



ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

Fucking comedy gold here, folks!

[The Franchise]

If we weren't switching to a 3-4......Raji wouldn't even be mentioned.

[Titty Meat]

ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

****ing comedy gold here, folks!

South Carolina W 14-7 15 25 146 60.0 5.84 39 0 0

Tennessee W 26-14 25 36 310 69.4 8.61 37 1 2

Vanderbilt W 24-14 13 23 194 56.5 8.44 49 2 2




Morneo in those games

@South Carolina W 14-7 20 79 4.0 1 TD

Tennessee W 26-14 27 101 3.7 13

Vanderbilt W 24-14 23 172 7.5 22 1 TD




That slurping sound Ross Perot was talking about? That was Dane douche sucking off the draftubators

[kcbubb]

wow that's funny.

[Mecca]

It's as funny as someone acting like a RB is more valuable than a QB, something a Chiefs fan would say...

We literally have a retarded fan base.

[Titty Meat]

It's as funny as someone acting like a RB is more valuable than a QB, something a Chiefs fan would say...

We literally have a retarded fan base.

I said a RB is more important then a QB? Now you're twisting the debate look at Georgia's games last year how do you think they won most of them? Stafford can't beat Kentucky's defense but he'll beat San Diegos? Are you really that much of a mental midget?

[Mecca]

I said a RB is more important then a QB? Now you're twisting the debate look at Georgia's games last year how do you think they won most of them? Stafford can't beat Kentucky's defense but he'll beat San Diegos? Are you really that much of a mental midget?

Uh dude you wanna go pull his stats from the Kentucky game?

It's obviously his fault their defense game up 40 points go for that.

I'm tired of talking to people who think the best course of action is to get back to 8-8 the fastest way possible.

I think people should be forced to make a list of what an expendable position and what a core position is.

[Titty Meat]

It's as funny as someone acting like a RB is more valuable than a QB, something a Chiefs fan would say...

We literally have a retarded fan base.

Oh the irony. You say the fan base is a bunch of retards yet you have 55,000 posts on this board.

[DaneMcCloud]

That slurping sound Ross Perot was talking about? That was Dane douche sucking off the draftubators

Hey, why don't you go fuck your mother again, Dickhead?

Only an inbred piece of shit like yourself would promote a running back over a franchise QB.

Walk into an AIDS tree.

[Titty Meat]

Uh dude you wanna go pull his stats from the Kentucky game?

It's obviously his fault their defense game up 40 points go for that.

I'm tired of talking to people who think the best course of action is to get back to 8-8 the fastest way possible.

I think people should be forced to make a list of what an expendable position and what a core position is.

I meant the Florida game or even the Tennesee or Vanderbilt game.

I'm not talking about going 8-8 the fastest but we know Cassel can win atleast 11 games and throw 20 TD's.

[Mecca]

I meant the Florida game or even the Tennesee or Vanderbilt game.

I'm not talking about going 8-8 the fastest but we know Cassel can win atleast 11 games and throw 20 TD's.

Yea with Randy fucking Moss and Wes Welker and record setting offense from the previous season, in case you didn't notice Randy Moss isn't walking through that fuckin door with him.

[Titty Meat]

Hey, why don't you go **** your mother again, Dickhead?

Only an inbred piece of shit like yourself would promote a running back over a franchise QB.

Walk into an AIDS tree.


Oh no I pissed off the yuppie or atleast the guy who pretends to be a millionare on the interwebz. Mom jokes went out in the 90's around the same time you had hair. So why don't you continue sucking on your cigars and pretending it's Matt Staffords Cawk?

[Titty Meat]

Yea with Randy ****ing Moss and Wes Welker and record setting offense from the previous season, in case you didn't notice Randy Moss isn't walking through that ****in door with him.

Yea Dwayne Bowe sucks and Tony Gonzalez is trash too. We can't draft/sign play makers on offense either.

[Mecca]

Yea Dwayne Bowe sucks and Tony Gonzalez is trash too. We can't draft/sign play makers on offense either.

If you think Dwayne Bowe is remotely similar to Randy Moss, I have some bad news for you...other teams don't line up like they are scared shitless of Bowe like they do with Moss.

This is why I laugh, Randy Moss is Randy Moss, Bowe is a nice player, got that a nice player, Randy Moss is the most gifted player to ever play his position...see the difference?

Just stop acting like the Chiefs have weapons remotely similar to the Patriots this is just dumb.

[DaneMcCloud]

Oh no I pissed off the yuppie or atleast the guy who pretends to be a millionare on the interwebz. Mom jokes went out in the 90's around the same time you had hair. So why don't you continue sucking on your cigars and pretending it's Matt Staffords Cawk?

ROFL

Go fuck your mother.

Again.

[R&GHomer]

Hey, why don't you go **** your mother again, Dickhead?

Only an inbred piece of shit like yourself would promote a running back over a franchise QB.

Walk into an AIDS tree.

ROFL Damn!

[wild1]

the best scenario possible is the Lions not taking a QB

[Titty Meat]

If you think Dwayne Bowe is remotely similar to Randy Moss, I have some bad news for you...other teams don't line up like they are scared shitless of Bowe like they do with Moss.

This is why I laugh, Randy Moss is Randy Moss, Bowe is a nice player, got that a nice player, Randy Moss is the most gifted player to ever play his position...see the difference?

Just stop acting like the Chiefs have weapons remotely similar to the Patriots this is just dumb.

I'm not saying that Bowe is Moss but Bowe does make plays so does Gonzalez. Thigpen was able to throw 21 td's with the talent around so you saying the Chiefs don't have much on offense is silly really. And you think Pioli/Haley won't find any more talent on the offense?

[Deberg_1990]

If you think Dwayne Bowe is remotely similar to Randy Moss, I have some bad news for you...other teams don't line up like they are scared shitless of Bowe like they do with Moss.

This is why I laugh, Randy Moss is Randy Moss, Bowe is a nice player, got that a nice player, Randy Moss is the most gifted player to ever play his position...see the difference?

Just stop acting like the Chiefs have weapons remotely similar to the Patriots this is just dumb.

Moss is a gifted WR no doubt. So is T.O.

How many rings do those guys have between them again?

[wild1]

If you think Dwayne Bowe is remotely similar to Randy Moss, I have some bad news for you...other teams don't line up like they are scared shitless of Bowe like they do with Moss.

This is why I laugh, Randy Moss is Randy Moss, Bowe is a nice player, got that a nice player, Randy Moss is the most gifted player to ever play his position...see the difference?

Just stop acting like the Chiefs have weapons remotely similar to the Patriots this is just dumb.

Randy Moss is not even in the top 5 of all-time wide receivers.

[Mecca]

To act like Matt Cassel is going to be the same player when you put him on this team as he was on the Patriots is laughable...

[Mecca]

Randy Moss is not even in the top 5 of all-time wide receivers.

What did I say? Physically gifted..got that PHYSICALLY GIFTED.

He is far and way the most physically gifted WR to ever suit up in the NFL, understand?

[Titty Meat]

Yea guys Dwayne Bowe sucks he only has over 2,000 yards his first 2 seasons with Herm Edwards as his coach & Damon Huard, Brodie Croyle, Tyler Thigpen as his QB.s Cassel sucks too 21 TD's in his first year sucks.

[The Franchise]

I'm not saying that Bowe is Moss but Bowe does make plays so does Gonzalez. Thigpen was able to throw 21 td's with the talent around so you saying the Chiefs don't have much on offense is silly really. And you think Pioli/Haley won't find any more talent on the offense?

21 TDs in a spread offense is pathetic.

[DaneMcCloud]

Yea guys Dwayne Bowe sucks he only has over 2,000 yards his first 2 seasons with Herm Edwards as his coach & Damon Huard, Brodie Croyle, Tyler Thigpen as his QB.s Cassel sucks too 21 TD's in his first year sucks.

So, you're stating that Dwayne Bowe should be in the same category as Randy Moss?

Really?

ROFL

[Mecca]

Why do I have to constantly read these overvalued views of Chiefs players?

Dwayne Bowe is a nice player that needs to learn how to catch the ball, everyones view of Cassel suddenly flipped when he got traded for, stop looking at players through rose colored glasses because they're on this team.

There are still people that think Derrick Johnson and Tamba Hali are gonna break out it's pathetic.

[DaneMcCloud]

Moss is a gifted WR no doubt. So is T.O.

How many rings do those guys have between them again?

This is a stupid argument.

Are you stating that neither have had an enormous amount of offensive output on their respective teams and that THEY are the reason why the those respective teams haven't won a title?

[Titty Meat]

So, you're stating that Dwayne Bowe should be in the same category as Randy Moss?

Really?

ROFL

Thats not what I said at all. You're trying to twist my words like you twist your dick in Meccas ass

[DaneMcCloud]

Thats not what I said at all. You're trying to twist my words like you twist your dick in Meccas ass

Wow, you truly are a piece of shit.

[Mecca]

Thats not what I said at all. You're trying to twist my words like you twist your dick in Meccas ass

Are you by any chance also registered as "JASONSAUTO"

[Titty Meat]

Why do I have to constantly read these overvalued views of Chiefs players?

Dwayne Bowe is a nice player that needs to learn how to catch the ball, everyones view of Cassel suddenly flipped when he got traded for, stop looking at players through rose colored glasses because they're on this team.

There are still people that think Derrick Johnson and Tamba Hali are gonna break out it's pathetic.


I didn't flip on Cassel I said we should trade for him go back in look in the threads.

I know Dwayne Bowe is only a nice player he won't be the Chiefs all time leading reciever or anything. He only had 11 more catches then Moss last year and averaged the same # of yards per game as Moss too.

You're grouping me into everyone else where did I say DJ was going to be a great player? I've bashed Tamba Hali and the whole D-line.

[DaneMcCloud]

Are you by any chance also registered as "JASONSAUTO"

Mr. Sauto is Stephen Hawking next to this guy.

[wild1]

What did I say? Physically gifted..got that PHYSICALLY GIFTED.

He is far and way the most physically gifted WR to ever suit up in the NFL, understand?

lol @ your mock attitude of authority

[chiefs1111]

Why do I have to constantly read these overvalued views of Chiefs players?

Dwayne Bowe is a nice player that needs to learn how to catch the ball, everyones view of Cassel suddenly flipped when he got traded for, stop looking at players through rose colored glasses because they're on this team.

There are still people that think Derrick Johnson and Tamba Hali are gonna break out it's pathetic.

Yeah,im still waiting for Tamba to have that double digit sack season people keep saying he's gonna have

[Titty Meat]

Wow, you truly are a piece of shit.

Funny you're the one who pretends to be a millionare online. Is that how you lure guys like the Draftubators to meet you?

[the Talking Can]

We'll see I think the people who say Stafford will be the next John Elway are in for a disappointment. Moreno carried that offense.

this is the most stupid fucking thing ever typed in the history of man

you should kill yourself, your family would thank you

[Mecca]

lol @ your mock attitude of authority

Don't post like you have no ability to remotely comprehend what I said and I won't talk to you that way.

[Mecca]

Yeah,im still waiting for Tamba to have that double digit sack season people keep saying he's gonna have

Where's that guy last year who wanted to bet with me that Hali would get 10 sacks...I'm still waiting for him to kiss my ass.

[Titty Meat]

this is the most stupid ****ing thing ever typed in the history of man

you should kill yourself, your family would thank you


You're right Knowshon Moreno didn't do anything for Georgias offense. You should change your name to " The Draftubators Talking Point" It's more appropriate

[chiefs1111]

Where's that guy last year who wanted to bet with me that Hali would get 10 sacks...I'm still waiting for him to kiss my ass.

ROFL

[DeezNutz]

Where's that guy last year who wanted to bet with me that Hali would get 10 sacks...I'm still waiting for him to kiss my ass.

Who was that?

[Mecca]

Who was that?

I should go back and find the post....I bet he'd be ashamed.

I don't have a problem with most people I'd just like for people to have intelligent takes, I don't enjoy reading threads like "Tamba Hali will be a stud 3-4 OLB"

[wild1]

Don't post like you have no ability to remotely comprehend what I said and I won't talk to you that way.

you didn't say physically gifted, you just said gifted.

now go get me some fries that aren't cold

[Mecca]

you didn't say physically gifted, you just said gifted.

now go get me some fries that aren't cold

You don't know what the term gifted means eh?

And you give me the fries joke, I'm not the one that can't read properly.

[DaneMcCloud]

Funny you're the one who pretends to be a millionare online. Is that how you lure guys like the Draftubators to meet you?


Here we go again.

DaneMcCloud has another jealous stalker

Woop-Tee-Doo.

[DeezNutz]

Here we go again.

DaneMcCloud has another jealous stalker

Woop-Tee-Doo.

And there you go again. I'm in this thread and BAAAMMM, here comes McCloud.

I'm not going to have sex with your wife. Dang.

[Titty Meat]

Here we go again.

DaneMcCloud has another jealous stalker

Woop-Tee-Doo.

Actually your the one who responds to my post. You should be in the NBA with that reach.

[wild1]

You don't know what the term gifted means eh?

And you give me the fries joke, I'm not the one that can't read properly.

i read exactly what you wrote.

[Mecca]

i read exactly what you wrote.

Which in turn means you have the comprehension skill of a 3 year old which means you can't read properly.

You don't wanna play this game with me you're the one who didn't understand what I meant because you're stupid.

[DaneMcCloud]

Actually your the one who responds to my post. You should be in the NBA with that reach.

Yeah, I responded to your dumbassery.

Without a doubt, you are one of the least informed n00bs ever to grace the 'Planet.

[Mecca]

This is seriously the worst noob season ever, 99% of them are fuckin retarded.

[wild1]

Which in turn means you have the comprehension skill of a 3 year old which means you can't read properly.

You don't wanna play this game with me you're the one who didn't understand what I meant because you're stupid.

So physically gifted is the only way a person can be gifted?

[Mecca]

So physically gifted is the only way a person can be gifted?

Did they tell you that you were gifted when you were in the slow classes in school?

[DeezNutz]

So physically gifted is the only way a person can be gifted?

On the football field, I'm afraid that one's intellectual prowess has little consequence.

[Titty Meat]

Yeah, I responded to your dumbassery.

Without a doubt, you are one of the least informed n00bs ever to grace the 'Planet.

Yea not wanting to Draft Stafford at 3 sure makes one a dumbass. I guess thats why the top 3 teams in the draft are going to draft someone else? I guess I could just be a Draftubators dick rider like you and just parrot whatever they say. How are you a millionare? I didn't know sucking cawk for money paid so good.

[Mecca]

Yea not wanting to Draft Stafford at 3 sure makes one a dumbass. I guess thats why the top 3 teams in the draft are going to draft someone else? I guess I could just be a Draftubators dick rider like you and just parrot whatever they say. How are you a millionare? I didn't know sucking cawk for money paid so good.

Acting like Knowshon Moreno is a better prospect or "more important" makes one a dumbass.

[Titty Meat]

Acting like Knowshon Moreno is a better prospect or "more important" makes one a dumbass.

Where did I say Moreno was a better prospect?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Yea not wanting to Draft Stafford at 3 sure makes one a dumbass. I guess thats why the top 3 teams in the draft are going to draft someone else? I guess I could just be a Draftubators dick rider like you and just parrot whatever they say. How are you a millionare? I didn't know sucking cawk for money paid so good.

Your mother should have swallowed you when she had the chance.

[DaneMcCloud]

Yea not wanting to Draft Stafford at 3 sure makes one a dumbass. I guess thats why the top 3 teams in the draft are going to draft someone else? I guess I could just be a Draftubators dick rider like you and just parrot whatever they say. How are you a millionare? I didn't know sucking cawk for money paid so good.

Detroit needs to build an offense line. Their first pick under the new regime shouldn't be a risky pick. Plus, they have the #20 & and the #33. They drafted Gosder Cherilus last year and with either Monroe or Smith, they've got bookend tackles for a decade.

St. Louis just released Pace. They don't have a capable LT. They do have a capable QB.

The Chiefs have a left tackle. They acquired a QB for a 2nd rounder. That shouldn't preclude them from selecting a QB like Stafford, who by all accounts, is a Franchise QB.

You act like people here are advocating a QB like Freeman or Romar with the #3 pick, which is clearly not the case. Stafford will be an excellent pro, whether you like it or not.

Fucking inbred idiot.

[Titty Meat]

Good to see you came out of trolling to give me 2 negative Reps Hamas. This is cute how sensitive you Draftubators are. Talk about a collective bunch of beat down little bitches.

[Mecca]

Where did I say Moreno was a better prospect?

You said that Matt Stafford was going to be a shitty pro because Knowshon Moreno was the best player on their offense.....

What other point does that make? Unless of course you really have no point other than to try to downgrade Stafford because he plays the scary QB position.

[DaneMcCloud]

Good to see you came out of trolling to give me 2 negative Reps Hamas. This is cute how sensitive you Draftubators are. Talk about a collective bunch of beat down little bitches.

Ah, a little pussy who bitches about rep.

Nice.

Fucktard.

[keg in kc]

You said that Matt Stafford was going to be a shitty pro because Knowshon Moreno was the best player on their offense.....

What other point does that make? Unless of course you really have no point other than to try to downgrade Stafford because he plays the scary QB position.Stafford's just a product of those great receivers and linemen.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Good to see you came out of trolling to give me 2 negative Reps Hamas. This is cute how sensitive you Draftubators are. Talk about a collective bunch of beat down little bitches.

I neg repped you because the idea of you having positive rep completely destroys the credibility of the entire rep system.

[Titty Meat]

Detroit needs to build an offense line. Their first pick under the new regime shouldn't be a risky pick. Plus, they have the #20 & and the #33. They drafted Gosder Cherilus last year and with either Monroe or Smith, they've got bookend tackles for a decade.

St. Louis just released Pace. They don't have a capable LT. They do have a capable QB.

The Chiefs have a left tackle. They acquired a QB for a 2nd rounder. That shouldn't preclude them from selecting a QB like Stafford, who by all accounts, is a Franchise QB.

You act like people here are advocating a QB like Freeman or Romar with the #3 pick, which is clearly not the case. Stafford will be an excellent pro, whether you like it or not.

****ing inbred idiot.



Yea Detroit sticking with Culpepper instead of drafting Stafford says alot. They could draft a good O-linemen with the 20th pick or package that and another pick to draft a O-linemen and stil draft Stafford moron. Pioli has won 3 super bowls and decided to trade for a guy whos only played a year instead of drafting Stafford that says alot.

[SAUTO]

To act like Matt Cassel is going to be the same player when you put him on this team as he was on the Patriots is laughable...

UUUUHHHH what about CASSEL is going to change? if anything he will be a better player with the experience he gained last year.

[DaneMcCloud]

Yea Detroit sticking with Culpepper instead of drafting Stafford says alot. They could draft a good O-linemen with the 20th pick or package that and another pick to draft a O-linemen and stil draft Stafford moron. Pioli has won 3 super bowls and decided to trade for a guy whos only played a year instead of drafting Stafford that says alot.

You clearly don't get it.

Why should I be surprised?

And work on the grammar, n00b.

[Titty Meat]

You said that Matt Stafford was going to be a shitty pro because Knowshon Moreno was the best player on their offense.....

What other point does that make? Unless of course you really have no point other than to try to downgrade Stafford because he plays the scary QB position.

No the point I was making is if Stafford can't beat a Vanderbilt defense or Tennesee why do you think he'll beat San Diego?

[Mecca]

It says there are alot of fools that work in the NFL.

The great Bill Parcells who Pioli seems to do business like passed on Matt Ryan for Jake Long, how's that look right now?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

UUUUHHHH what about CASSEL is going to change? if anything he will be a better player with the experience he gained last year.

STFU Sauto!!!

[DaneMcCloud]

UUUUHHHH what about CASSEL is going to change? if anything he will be a better player with the experience he gained last year.

I doubt it, Mr. Sauto.

No Welker. No Moss. Currently, the worst offensive line in the NFL.

That does not bode well for Cassel in 2009.

[Titty Meat]

Lions taking Smith... 03-23-2009 07:12 PM 'Hamas' Jenkins Look at this. Look at how stupid you are.
Lions taking Smith... 03-23-2009 07:11 PM 'Hamas' Jenkins Yes, you may have another.
Lions taking Smith... 03-23-2009 07:05 PM 'Hamas' Jenkins Your mother should have swallowed you.
Lions taking Smith... 03-23-2009 07:02 PM 'Hamas' Jenkins dumbass



You must love the way my dick tastes Hamas.

[DeezNutz]

Stafford's just a product of those great receivers and linemen.

If he would have ever faced a decent defense, one could put more faith in the numbers he put up.

[DaneMcCloud]

Lions taking Smith... 03-23-2009 07:12 PM 'Hamas' Jenkins Look at this. Look at how stupid you are.
Lions taking Smith... 03-23-2009 07:11 PM 'Hamas' Jenkins Yes, you may have another.
Lions taking Smith... 03-23-2009 07:05 PM 'Hamas' Jenkins Your mother should have swallowed you.
Lions taking Smith... 03-23-2009 07:02 PM 'Hamas' Jenkins dumbass



You must love the way my dick tastes Hamas.

Oh boy.

Time to unleash the hounds, I'd say?

[Titty Meat]

It says there are alot of fools that work in the NFL.

The great Bill Parcells who Pioli seems to do business like passed on Matt Ryan for Jake Long, how's that look right now?

Yea Jake Long sucks so does Bill Parcells that 1-15 only went 11-5 this year.

[Mecca]

Lions taking Smith... 03-23-2009 07:12 PM 'Hamas' Jenkins Look at this. Look at how stupid you are.
Lions taking Smith... 03-23-2009 07:11 PM 'Hamas' Jenkins Yes, you may have another.
Lions taking Smith... 03-23-2009 07:05 PM 'Hamas' Jenkins Your mother should have swallowed you.
Lions taking Smith... 03-23-2009 07:02 PM 'Hamas' Jenkins dumbass



You must love the way my dick tastes Hamas.

Well you're the one using Hooties drafturbator term, being associated with Hootie and anything football related is not a good spot to be.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

No the point I was making is if Stafford can't beat a Vanderbilt defense or Tennesee why do you think he'll beat San Diego?

Yeah, I mean Tom Brady couldn't even get above .500 with his high school team. What makes you think that he'll amount to anything in either college or the pros?

[Mecca]

Yea Jake Long sucks so does Bill Parcells that 1-15 only went 11-5 this year.

You'd rather have Long than Ryan, that's all I need to know about you, you're one of those dumb fucks.

[wild1]

What is a drafturbator anyway?

[DaneMcCloud]

Yea Jake Long sucks so does Bill Parcells that 1-15 only went 11-5 this year.

ROFL

They beat TWO teams with a winning record. The Pats in week 3 and the Jets in week 17.

TWO.

They're going to take a nose dive this year.

[Titty Meat]

Oh boy.

Time to unleash the hounds, I'd say?

Weren't you the one saying I stalk you? I think you've responded to every post i've made in here. Shouldn't you be trading stocks Mr.Millionare or is the psych word letting you play online longer?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Yea Jake Long sucks so does Bill Parcells that 1-15 only went 11-5 this year.

If you aspire to be the Dolphins you should commit Seppuku with a spork.

[Titty Meat]

You'd rather have Long than Ryan, that's all I need to know about you, you're one of those dumb ****s.

Where did I say I'd rather have Long then Ryan?

[wild1]

Did they tell you that you were gifted when you were in the slow classes in school?

If you'd like to compare educational pedigrees I'd be happy to.

[Mecca]

Only a Chiefs fan would tell you what the Dolphins did was right, lets get Jake Long and Chad Pennington instead of the franchise QB, fuckin retards.

[SAUTO]

STFU Sauto!!!

I doubt it, Mr. Sauto.

No Welker. No Moss. Currently, the worst offensive line in the NFL.

That does not bode well for Cassel in 2009.

you guys dont get what i'm saying, he will be the same player, the supporting cast wont be as good(although watching some pats games from last year their o line WASNT very good) so his stats may noy be as good but he will be the same player/person.:D

['Hamas' Jenkins]

you guys dont get what i'm saying, he will be the same player, the supporting cast wont be as good(although watching some pats games from last year their o line WASNT very good) so his stats may noy be as good but he will be the same player/person.:D

Fuck you, SAUTO, FUCK YOU!!

[Titty Meat]

If you'd like to compare educational pedigrees I'd be happy to.

Nah he'd like to compare football knowledge. You know cause he's so smart and this board is full of retards he has over 55,000 posts. He knows alot about drafting cause on his breaks at McDonalds he spends his time reading draft magazines.

[Mecca]

Where did I say I'd rather have Long then Ryan?

Then why did you just defend the move as if it was the right move?

Do you like to double talk?

[DaneMcCloud]

Fuck you, SAUTO, FUCK YOU!!

ROFL

[SAUTO]

Fuck you, SAUTO, FUCK YOU!!

hamas, why is that all i ever get from you anymore? i kinda miss "kill yourself":D

[DaneMcCloud]

Nah he'd like to compare football knowledge. You know cause he's so smart and this board is full of retards he has over 55,000 posts. He knows alot about drafting cause on his breaks at McDonalds he spends his time reading draft magazines.

I guess you would know because you just got off of work, right?

[Titty Meat]

Then why did you just defend the move as if it was the right move?

Do you like to double talk?

You talk as if Jake Long sucked. Though you do know more then Parcells you won 3 super bowls on madden. Your wife must be a real cunt.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

hamas, why is that all i ever get from you anymore? i kinda miss "kill yourself":D

I just love to give you shit. I like you, Sauto.

[SAUTO]

ROFL

oh and dane, thats MR. Hawking to youROFL

[Titty Meat]

I guess you would know because you just got off of work, right?

Nah I'm an internet millionare who flames people on a football message board.

[DeezNutz]

I just love to give you shit. I like you, Sauto.

:grouphug:

[wild1]

Nah he'd like to compare football knowledge. You know cause he's so smart and this board is full of retards he has over 55,000 posts. He knows alot about drafting cause on his breaks at McDonalds he spends his time reading draft magazines.

i find that the loudest and most eager people to argue about something are usually not that well informed.

not that i know what this debate with you is about or that i am taking sides in it.

[DaneMcCloud]

Nah I'm an internet millionare who flames people on a football message board.

So in other words, you're a fucking dickhead?

Got it.

[Coogs]

I have not read this thread so I don't know if this has been covered already, so my apologies if it has already been discussed.

The Jets have apparently let the Broncos know they would be interested in Cutler if Denver decides to trade him. The Jets have the 17th pick which is worth 950 points. The Broncos's 12th pick is worth 1200 points.


The Chiefs 3rd pick is worth 2200. :hmmm:

[milkman]

Trading down is the ideal scenario but if we get stuck with the third pick I'd have to say the best move would be to take Monroe if he is there. You can't go wrong by building a dominant offensive line.

Yeah, because those dominant O-Lines we've had for the better part of 20 years have been the foundation that have spurred us to all those playoff victories.

[Sam Hall]

I don't care who the Chiefs draft as long as it pisses off DaneMcCloud. That would be the ultimate sign of a great pick.

[Mecca]

I don't care who the Chiefs draft as long as it pisses off DaneMcCloud. That would be the ultimate sign of a great pick.

This is a really stupid thing to say.

[milkman]

This is a stupid argument.

Are you stating that neither have had an enormous amount of offensive output on their respective teams and that THEY are the reason why the those respective teams haven't won a title?

All people should have to do to understand the value that Moss brings to an offense, and specifically a QB, is look at Culpepper with and wiithout Moss.

[Sam Hall]

This is a really stupid thing to say.

Let's just say Dane and I don't agree on anything.

[Mecca]

Let's just say Dane and I don't agree on anything.

There are people that don't like players because I like them, do you think that is very smart?

[htismaqe]

To act like Matt Cassel is going to be the same player when you put him on this team as he was on the Patriots is laughable...

To act like Matt Cassel has zero chance of being the same player and instead giving all the credit to his supporting cast (who gave up almost 50 sacks) is laughable as well.

Why do I have to constantly read these overvalued views of Chiefs players?

Dwayne Bowe is a nice player that needs to learn how to catch the ball, everyones view of Cassel suddenly flipped when he got traded for, stop looking at players through rose colored glasses because they're on this team.

There are still people that think Derrick Johnson and Tamba Hali are gonna break out it's pathetic.

Dwayne Bowe is considerably more than just a "nice player".

[SAUTO]

All people should have to do to understand the value that Moss brings to an offense, and specifically a QB, is look at Culpepper with and wiithout Moss.

didnt culpepper blow out a knee right after moss left? did he make aaron brooks better? how about kerry collins?

[htismaqe]

You're going to draft a player and sit him for 2 years to use him for trade bait opposed to drafting a guy who can get after the QB or a good D-tackle? Cassel is the franchise QB folks get over it.

Cassel isn't anything until they lock him up. As of now, his jersey number is #0.

He's here for 2 years we can Franchise him again after this season. What if he's good? We'll be paying 2 QB's 100 million in cap thats silly. Plus if you have 2 QB'S you really don't have any. We should be building the defense through the draft.

Two words:

Matt Schaub.

[Mecca]

To act like Matt Cassel has zero chance of being the same player and instead giving all the credit to his supporting cast (who gave up almost 50 sacks) is laughable as well.



Dwayne Bowe is considerably more than just a "nice player".

What's your definition...he's not a pro bowler..he's not an all pro, he's a nice solid starting WR, I remember his rookie year when I was reading inane shit on here like "he's better than Calvin Johnson" nice to see that subsided.

[SAUTO]

To act like Matt Cassel has zero chance of being the same player and instead giving all the credit to his supporting cast (who gave up almost 50 sacks) is laughable as well.



Dwayne Bowe is considerably more than just a "nice player".

thank you, i said the same thing about cassel a couple of pages ago

[Mecca]

I said it before and I will stand by it, in my view there are no less than 20 QB's that could have done just as well if not better in the situation Matt Cassel was in.

[SAUTO]

I said it before and I will stand by it, in my view there are no less than 20 QB's that could have done just as well if not better in the situation Matt Cassel was in.

and that would make you a dumbass.

[Mecca]

and that would make you a dumbass.

Coming from you that means alot...I'm sure most QB's wouldn't love to sit behind a team that ran for 2000 yards gave him 2 of the best WR's in the NFL to throw to and so forth.

I said it before he was on the Chiefs and I'll stand by it, I'm not flipping my view due to the uniform he puts on.

[nychief]

we aren't drafting a QB in the first rnd, end of story. I think we'll pick up another young guy in the later rnds, but lets just dissuade ourselves of anything else right now.

[milkman]

didnt culpepper blow out a knee right after moss left? did he make aaron brooks better? how about kerry collins?

A motivated Randy Moss is vitually unstoppable.
The problem with Moss is that he lost that motivation until he was traded to the Pats.

That quitter mentality is why, in spite of all his talent, I would not want him as part of my team.

[SAUTO]

Coming from you that means alot...I'm sure most QB's wouldn't love to sit behind a team that ran for 2000 yards gave him 2 of the best WR's in the NFL to throw to and so forth.

I said it before he was on the Chiefs and I'll stand by it, I'm not flipping my view due to the uniform he puts on.

have you watched ANY pats games from last year? damn man most experts have said that by the end of the year cassel was CARRYING that team. watch their games and get back to me(or dont because you could watch and still bitch no matter what because you have already bashed so you cant change your mind, you have too much pride for that)

[Pioli Zombie]

Yeah, because those dominant O-Lines we've had for the better part of 20 years have been the foundation that have spurred us to all those playoff victories.
I love this logic. Like it was the OL's fault the 2003 Chiefs didn't win it all. Or it was the OL that stopped the Chiefs from advancing in 1995 and 1997. In the 90's it was because Peterson didn't get the Chiefs a QB. And in 2003 it was totally on the defense. Teams HAVE ridden their offense lines to Super Bowls. The 80's Giants, the 70's Dolphins, the 70's Raiders, the 3 Joe Gibbs SB winning teams with theismann, doug Williams and Mark Rypein at QB. All these teams had dominant offensive lines. All that being said, I'm on record saying the Chiefs should draft Raji if they can't trade down. But its not "retarded" to build your teams from the lines out. You just have to remember to finish building the rest of the team.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Mecca]

LOL can't change my mind?

So basically you think I suck cause I don't go oh shit he's on the Chiefs now BEST EVAR!

[SAUTO]

A motivated Randy Moss is vitually unstoppable.
The problem with Moss is that he lost that motivation until he was traded to the Pats.

That quitter mentality is why, in spite of all his talent, I would not want him as part of my team.

and by most accounts he WAS NOT motivated through the middle part of last season. he turned it on the last couple of weeks when the were in the playoff hunt

[Pioli Zombie]

I said it before and I will stand by it, in my view there are no less than 20 QB's that could have done just as well if not better in the situation Matt Cassel was in.
C'mon Mecca that's just ridiculous. Especially if you watched the games

Name the 20 please.
Posted via Mobile Device

[SAUTO]

LOL can't change my mind?

So basically you think I suck cause I don't go oh shit he's on the Chiefs now BEST EVAR!

can you fucking read? i think you suck because you havent watched him play much and still bash. like i said there's no changing your mind because you have gone on record with how you feel and even if he was to end up being the best qb in the nfl in a year or two you would find SOMETHING to bitch about, he's too pretty, he doesnt date a supermodel, he steps onto the field with the wrong foot, something.

[SAUTO]

C'mon Mecca that's just ridiculous. Especially if you watched the games Name the 20 please.
Posted via Mobile Device

he obviously hasnt

[Mecca]

Yea I don't watch any games, that's it.

[doomy3]

Yea I don't watch any games, that's it.

Who are the 20 QBs better than Cassel?

[keg in kc]

Mark Sanchez has 20 fingers and toes, all individually better than Cassel.

[Pioli Zombie]

He's running to get his Sporting news to come up with the names
Posted via Mobile Device

[SAUTO]

Yea I don't watch any games, that's it.

how many pats games did you watch? better yet how many SINCE we traded for cassel? the things you are saying about the guy just arent true IMO

[Mecca]

....that's hilarious that you really want me to make a list, the point is that Matt Cassel is at best a league average QB.

But hey if you want me to I'll list 20 guys who I think could have done atleast as good.

[milkman]

I love this logic. Like it was the OL's fault the 2003 Chiefs didn't win it all. Or it was the OL that stopped the Chiefs from advancing in 1995 and 1997. In the 90's it was because Peterson didn't get the Chiefs a QB. And in 2003 it was totally on the defense. Teams HAVE ridden their offense lines to Super Bowls. The 80's Giants, the 70's Dolphins, the 70's Raiders, the 3 Joe Gibbs SB winning teams with theismann, doug Williams and Mark Rypein at QB. All these teams had dominant offensive lines. All that being said, I'm on record saying the Chiefs should draft Raji if they can't trade down. But its not "retarded" to build your teams from the lines out. You just have to remember to finish building the rest of the team.
Posted via Mobile Device

Do you not understand that this is exactly what we've been arguing about?

I am not wasting any time now arguing that we should draft a QB at #3, because I know there's no chance at all that we will.

I am hoping that Pioli has made the right choice in deciding to trade for Cassel rather than draft Stafford/though I have my strong misgivings about that.

However, the point is, give me a fucking QB.

Ther's plenty of O-Line talent to be found in the second round and later in the draft.

[doomy3]

....that's hilarious that you really want me to make a list, the point is that Matt Cassel is at best a league average QB.

But hey if you want me to I'll list 20 guys who I think could have done atleast as good.

I do.

Please make the list.

[Mecca]

how many pats games did you watch? better yet how many SINCE we traded for cassel? the things you are saying about the guy just arent true IMO

He plays for the Chiefs so obviously he rules, there happy now?

[Pioli Zombie]

20. That's a lot of qbs. This should be good.
Posted via Mobile Device

[doomy3]

He plays for the Chiefs so obviously he rules, there happy now?

No. I want one of the 20 other superior QBs. Please tell me who they are so I can start that campaign.

[Reerun_KC]

No. I want one of the 20 other superior QBs. Please tell me who they are so I can start that campaign.

I think at this point you can throw objectivity out the window... You have your Cassel worshippers and your doubters... But no matter the topic, the thread turns to this I am right you are wrong crap, each and every time.

[Pioli Zombie]

He plays for the Chiefs so obviously he rules, there happy now?

You said 20. We would just like to know who the 20 are. If you overstated it just say you overstated it
Posted via Mobile Device

[Mecca]

20 is a high number and it's a purposely high number if you really want me to start listing Qb's I think could have done atleast as good if not better on that team I will...and I'm sure someone will pick out a few they don't agree with to try to shrink the list..Jason will obviously do this because his football takes are like Hooties.

[Pioli Zombie]

I think at this point you can throw objectivity out the window... You have your Cassel worshippers and your doubters... But no matter the topic, the thread turns to this I am right you are wrong crap, each and every time.

I don't think that's true. I think you can be reasonable and say he's in the 10 to 12 range with potential to move up.
Posted via Mobile Device

[htismaqe]

What's your definition...he's not a pro bowler..he's not an all pro, he's a nice solid starting WR, I remember his rookie year when I was reading inane shit on here like "he's better than Calvin Johnson" nice to see that subsided.

At some point, you have to ignore the speed and size and all the measurables and give credit for PRODUCTION.

He may not be "better" than Calvin Johnson, but he's absolutely DONE more.

Dwayne Bowe isn't DJ or Hali, who we're still waiting to see something from. He's DONE it. Yes, he still has drops and he needs to work on alot of things. But at some point you have to stop and smell the roses and appreciate what he HAS done, on an AWFUL team.

[SAUTO]

He plays for the Chiefs so obviously he rules, there happy now?

not an answer to my question. i was against cassel before we traded for him, still against him right after we traded for him, but i'm the guy who will do a little research(and i know that for a guy with your GREAT football knowledge such as yourself thats not needed)watch some games and my viewpoint on him changed, maybe it's the fact that he will stand in the face of oncoming defenders, get blasted, yet make the perfect throw. maybe it's the way he LEADS his receivers(something obviously LOST on you. i remember the posts you put out there about the % of YAC the team had.IMO that had as much to do with cassel as the WRs he was throwing to) or the way when at crunch time he made plays, seeming every time. but hey tell me how i'm so wrong oh great mecca

[keg in kc]

the thread turns to this I am right you are wrong crap, each and every time.Does not you fucking moron. Don't you watch the games? God, how stupid can a motherfucker be. Surpised your keyboard doesn't short out from all the drool.

[keg in kc]

20 is a high number and it's a purposely high number if you really want me to start listing Qb's I think could have done atleast as good if not better on that team I will...and I'm sure someone will pick out a few they don't agree with to try to shrink the list..Jason will obviously do this because his football takes are like Hooties.I can think of one who wouldn't be on the list, and his name rhymes with "Tyler Thigpen".

[Pioli Zombie]

20 is a high number and it's a purposely high number if you really want me to start listing Qb's I think could have done atleast as good if not better on that team I will...and I'm sure someone will pick out a few they don't agree with to try to shrink the list..Jason will obviously do this because his football takes are like Hooties.
What??? That's the least coherant thing I've ever seen from you.
Posted via Mobile Device

[htismaqe]

I said it before and I will stand by it, in my view there are no less than 20 QB's that could have done just as well if not better in the situation Matt Cassel was in.

That may very well be so.

But to sit here and act like Cassel has NO chance is just as ridiculous as acting like he's going to be a Top 5 QB.

[htismaqe]

He plays for the Chiefs so obviously he rules, there happy now?

Mecca, that argument bears no more credence than the one that says you hate everybody just because they are a Chief.

BOTH are ridiculous.

[Reerun_KC]

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[Mecca]

At some point, you have to ignore the speed and size and all the measurables and give credit for PRODUCTION.

He may not be "better" than Calvin Johnson, but he's absolutely DONE more.

Dwayne Bowe isn't DJ or Hali, who we're still waiting to see something from. He's DONE it. Yes, he still has drops and he needs to work on alot of things. But at some point you have to stop and smell the roses and appreciate what he HAS done, on an AWFUL team.

Done more like dropped more balls?

Lets not compare them, if you put them next to each other even the most ardent Chiefs homer would take Calvin Johnson, unless he had brain damage.

[DeezNutz]

Interesting question.

Which of these do you believe would not have had success throwing to Moss and Welker: Flacco, Ryan, Rogers, Cutler, Dellhomme, Bulger, Rivers, McNabb, Hasslebeck, Romo, Manning, Manning, Garrard, Brees, Palmer*, Roethlisberger.

That's 16. One could make a case for Edwards.

Not saying they're "better," but I think these guys would have put up respectable numbers.

[htismaqe]

I don't think that's true. I think you can be reasonable and say he's in the 10 to 12 range with potential to move up.
Posted via Mobile Device

It's nearly impossible for anybody here to be reasonable.

On either side of any given argument.

[doomy3]

I think at this point you can throw objectivity out the window... You have your Cassel worshippers and your doubters... But no matter the topic, the thread turns to this I am right you are wrong crap, each and every time.

The difference is, even though I am a Cassel supporter, you won't see me saying he is a top 3 QB in the NFL. That's the equivalent of how ridiculous hyperbolas claiming there are 20 better QBs are. Mecca regularly makes these.

[Mecca]

That may very well be so.

But to sit here and act like Cassel has NO chance is just as ridiculous as acting like he's going to be a Top 5 QB.

Sure he might be fine, but I said long before I wouldn't want to chance that and I'm standing by that. Just because the Chiefs made that move is not going to cause me to flip my opinion I am not one of those people.

[keg in kc]

It's nearly impossible for anybody here to be reasonable.I can be perfectly reasonable so long as you agree that I am right!

[DeezNutz]

I can be perfectly reasonable so long as you agree that I am right!

DaGatorChief.

Welcome.

[Mecca]

Interesting question.

Which of these do you believe would not have had success throwing to Moss and Welker: Flacco, Ryan, Rogers, Cutler, Dellhomme, Bulger, Rivers, McNabb, Hasslebeck, Romo, Manning, Manning, Garrard, Brees, Palmer*, Roethlisberger.

That's 16. One could make a case for Edwards.

Not saying they're "better," but I think these guys would have put up respectable numbers.

That's my point and you didn't even include Warner or hell even Jason Campbell.

[milkman]

not an answer to my question. i was against cassel before we traded for him, still against him right after we traded for him, but i'm the guy who will do a little research(and i know that for a guy with your GREAT football knowledge such as yourself thats not needed)watch some games and my viewpoint on him changed, maybe it's the fact that he will stand in the face of oncoming defenders, get blasted, yet make the perfect throw. maybe it's the way he LEADS his receivers(something obviously LOST on you. i remember the posts you put out there about the % of YAC the team had.IMO that had as much to do with cassel as the WRs he was throwing to) or the way when at crunch time he made plays, seeming every time. but hey tell me how i'm so wrong oh great mecca

I think there's some merit to that, and Bowe is a receiver that can take advantage of that.

The problem is that we don't really have a second reciever to give us some of that YAC.

I don't think Cassel is going to suck up the joint, but we still have to get him some weapons for him to come close to matching the same kind of success he enjoyed last year.

[Reerun_KC]

I don't think that's true. I think you can be reasonable and say he's in the 10 to 12 range with potential to move up.
Posted via Mobile Device

All I care about is can he win a superbowl in 3 years. IF he hasnt elevated this team to play on Matt Cassels level, then we are screwed. Cassel has to carry this team on his back and make them better...


This isnt a game manager, I expect him to turn this offense around and put us in the top 5. He is proven to be a probowl QB in NE, he better damn sure come in here and take this team to the big dance...

I am sick of the excuses, play on a Pro Bowl level and produce or hit the fucking road...

[DeezNutz]

That's my point and you didn't even include Warner or hell even Jason Campbell.

Oops. Yeah, missed Warner b/c the list I was looking at was from the '08 preseason and had ML listed as the starter. Campbell was on the bubble, same as Edwards.

[Mecca]

I think Cassel is an average QB and that isn't what I wanted the team to be built around...just my view.

Also Matt Cassel has a horrid deep ball and a severe issue throwing to the middle of the field so I'm not sure how he's great at leading guys.

[SAUTO]

Sure he might be fine, but I said long before I wouldn't want to chance that and I'm standing by that. Just because the Chiefs made that move is not going to cause me to flip my opinion I am not one of those people.

i havent ASKED you to change your views because he's now a chief, if you watched him play maybe you would think differently

[doomy3]

Interesting question.

Which of these do you believe would not have had success throwing to Moss and Welker: Flacco, Ryan, Rogers, Cutler, Dellhomme, Bulger, Rivers, McNabb, Hasslebeck, Romo, Manning, Manning, Garrard, Brees, Palmer*, Roethlisberger.

That's 16. One could make a case for Edwards.

Not saying they're "better," but I think these guys would have put up respectable numbers.

Who would not have IMO:

Flacco, Delhomme, Bulger (would have been hurt behind that line-Cassel was hit a lot), Garrard

I'd put Cassel in the 10-12 range personally

[Reerun_KC]

The difference is, even though I am a Cassel supporter, you won't see me saying he is a top 3 QB in the NFL. That's the equivalent of how ridiculous hyperbolas claiming there are 20 better QBs are. Mecca regularly makes these.

He better damn well be a TOP 3 QB... No reason he shouldnt. IF we want to win championships, Cassel better pick up his game and take us there...

This isnt Damon Huard we are talking about, this is Matt Cassel.