Death to Video CARDS

[oaklandhater]

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[oaklandhater]

here is a link to the article explaining how it works

http://pc.ign.com/articles/965/965535p1.html

[oaklandhater]

you should be able to play Crysis on a netbook. A handful of us have played the game, at its highest settings, on a MacBook Air with the service. Not only is the game not normally available on the Mac (outside of running Boot Camp), but the MacBook Air is hardly a gaming device, and yet we were able to hop in and play it as smoothly as a nicely-specced machine.

I so want to try this on my MACBOOK AIR.

[Ultra Peanut]

latency

[Fish]

I can see hundreds of reasons for this to be impossible to implement....

Neat idea, but I doubt it ever happens.

[kaplin42]

Not only the death of video cards, but the death of systems like Xbox and playstation.

I would give this a shit if it actually turns out to be real.

[kaplin42]

I can see hundreds of reasons for this to be impossible to implement....

Neat idea, but I doubt it ever happens.

I think that it could be possible. You would need a massive server farm, and your upstream would have to be staggering. But this is no outside the realm of possiblity.

The two issues to overcome would be local (as in where all the computations are done) lag, and then and bandwidth lag.


How do you get 100K people playing 1k differant games (as an example) and not have lag?

[Fish]

I think that it could be possible. You would need a massive server farm, and your upstream would have to be staggering. But this is no outside the realm of possiblity.

The two issues to overcome would be local (as in where all the computations are done) lag, and then and bandwidth lag.


How do you get 100K people playing 1k differant games (as an example) and not have lag?

Expand your thinking a little further. Give a thought to the change in how games are created, marketed, sold, shipped, etc. How about the thousands of companies that physically produce games? How about video card manufacturers? Game console manufacturers? ISPs that will throttle your bandwidth when you actually use the advertised bandwidth limit? This type of move could potentially put lots of people out of work.

Not to mention the fact that if this were to happen, it would require all game manufacturers to agree to this single form of game distribution. I don't expect they would all agree to share under a single completely new and untested game distribution method. And lots of game manufacturers get huge contributions from video card manufacturers etc., and you'd be asking them to cut that off as well. There's little reason for these companies to decide to make their game available under someone else's profit line.

There's also the consideration as to whether they could handle the bandwidth for this type of thing.

And there are many factors that I'm not even considering.

[kaplin42]

Expand your thinking a little further. Give a thought to the change in how games are created, marketed, sold, shipped, etc. How about the thousands of companies that physically produce games? How about video card manufacturers? Game console manufacturers? ISPs that will throttle your bandwidth when you actually use the advertised bandwidth limit? This type of move could potentially put lots of people out of work.

Not to mention the fact that if this were to happen, it would require all game manufacturers to agree to this single form of game distribution. I don't expect they would all agree to share under a single completely new and untested game distribution method. And lots of game manufacturers get huge contributions from video card manufacturers etc., and you'd be asking them to cut that off as well. There's little reason for these companies to decide to make their game available under someone else's profit line.

There's also the consideration as to whether they could handle the bandwidth for this type of thing.

And there are many factors that I'm not even considering.


I do see your point about the actual people who make the CD's and what not. And there are a ton of little things, like you said.

I don't think they would have to pick one way or the other. OnLive would just have to ge a license to have game x on their site. However, that in itself could be tricky enough.

All in all, the idea is awesome, but I do believe you are right that there are just too many variable to make this work. By time you actually got done with the hardware alone, you would have broken most Forbes 500 companies bankroll, and then to have enough money to do the rest would be unrealistic.

Below is the edited thought.

Thinking about it even more, how does the video rendering get done? I mean, again 100k gamers playing 1k differant games, with all the processes taking place server side, how do you render that and send it out. That alone is pretty fricking serious.

[Basileus777]

Maybe in 10 years this could be the future, but right now it just isn't a realistic alternative. Bandwidth and lag issues alone make it impractical.

[RippedmyFlesh]

I can see hundreds of reasons for this to be impossible to implement....

Neat idea, but I doubt it ever happens.
vid card makers rule the hardware world..remember when it was the MB's? I always discourage people from a netbook...its not a laptop its a netbook but people don't understand the difference sometimes:shrug: even on laptops you need to order the nice vid upfront there really is no upgrading vid like on a desktop.

[oaklandhater]

there looking for ppl to beta it this summer if any one wants to try and get in I sign up all rdy here is the link.

http://www.onlive.com/beta_program.html i

[Pants]

Sounds like fucking blasphemy, but I guess that's progress. I can see how this would work in countries like Japan or Sweden were the broadband is actually that - BROAD. Here, it would be a feat to make something like this work, but that's the future of gaming/video and entertainment in general.

Pretty soon we'll just have wall screens connected through wireless broadband providing all forms of entertainment.

[Fish]

I just can't get over the licensing issues alone that this would create. If OnLive is hosting the game, they would have to have licensing from the manufacturer. And they would have to take responsibility for licensing their users. That would in turn make them a licensing "middle man" for the manufacturers. I really can't see that happening from the manufacturers standpoint. And many of these manufacturers already have a working profitable "pay-to-play" systems set up. You'd be asking them to forgo that process while providing very little benefit to the manufacturer for doing so. And the manufacturer would be left with an existing infrastructure that is no longer profitable.

Where's the advantage to the manufacturers and their contributing partners? Right now this seems to be an advantage to the gamer end-user and OnLive only. I see very little benefit otherwise. And unless a large majority of the game manufacturers jump on board, the game selection is going to be too incomplete to be worth it.

[oaklandhater]

I just can't get over the licensing issues alone that this would create. If OnLive is hosting the game, they would have to have licensing from the manufacturer. And they would have to take responsibility for licensing their users. That would in turn make them a licensing "middle man" for the manufacturers. I really can't see that happening from the manufacturers standpoint. And many of these manufacturers already have a working profitable "pay-to-play" systems set up. You'd be asking them to forgo that process while providing very little benefit to the manufacturer for doing so. And the manufacturer would be left with an existing infrastructure that is no longer profitable.

Where's the advantage to the manufacturers and their contributing partners? Right now this seems to be an advantage to the gamer end-user and OnLive only. I see very little benefit otherwise. And unless a large majority of the game manufacturers jump on board, the game selection is going to be too incomplete to be worth it.

Nearly every major publisher has signed on, with one notable exception being Activison Blizzard.

http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=1090

Shacknews gives a hands-on review.

[Pants]

Nearly every major publisher has signed on, with one notable exception being Activison Blizzard.

http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=1090

Shacknews gives a hands-on review.

This would do wonders for PC as far as pirating games goes, it might actually become profitable again for the other 90% of companies still developing PC games.

[oaklandhater]

This would do wonders for PC as far as pirating games goes, it might actually become profitable again for the other 90% of companies still developing PC games.

I really hate the anti piracy going aounrd with the PC if your pc game did not sell well its becuase it wasn't very good not becuase pirates downloaded your game.

Look at sims 2 its one of the best selling pc games ever its also the most pirated PC game ever.

It's cheaper and more cost effective to just let Piarcy happen then try to fight it.

PC dev's should take note from Stardock.

[Pants]

I really hate the anti piracy going aounrd with the PC if your pc game did not sell well its becuase it wasn't very good not becuase pirates downloaded your game.

Look at sims 2 its one of the best selling pc games ever its also the most pirated game PC game ever.

It's cheaper and more cost effective to just let Piarcy happen then try to fight it.

PC dev's should take note from Stardock.

The reason Sims sold so much is because it appeals to the nubcakes who have no idea what a torrent is or what p2p entails. The only PC games that actually make any kind of real, desirable profit are the ones that are primarily online (MMOs/certain FPS) and the ones that appeal to the general public. Sometimes there are freak titles like the Total War series that appeal to so so many that they're just bound to sell copies, but that's a rarity and not the standard.

This is why so many dev teams go to primarily consoles - because it's that much harder to pirate that shit.

[Fish]

Nearly every major publisher has signed on, with one notable exception being Activison Blizzard.

http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=1090

Shacknews gives a hands-on review.

I see nothing about any publisher in that link. Where are you getting that info?

OK... I found it in another link... http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/57804

But still, there are a lot of major manufacturers missing besides Blizzard, which is big enough in itself...

Ubisoft, Take-Two, Electronic Arts, THQ, Atari, Warner Bros., and Epic Games have all signed on to the product, with Activision Blizzard being the major missing name. Publishers will have the option of both selling and renting their games.

Just a quick list.... Bioware, Bethesda, Bungie, id, GT, LucasArts, Microsoft, Midway, Rockstar, Sierra, Square, Valve...

[bowener]

This is much more than the death of video cards. This is could be the reemergence of computer games. It also is much more attractive to me than a PS3 or 360 simply because they are already slated to be replaced within the next 2-3 years.... I dont really want to drop $500 for console and controllers, etc. and find it outdated within 3 years. But this would let me join (hopefully for a monthly fee) and continually be upgraded simply by the improvement of the games that are released. I will never be behind the times! Also, pretty sweet that you can take all your games with you simply by traveling to a place that has an internet connection.


What is weird for me is I was talking about this last month with my roommate. We were wondering when it would happen that the majority of games we play will be online and all you need to do is pay a monthly subscription and download a small file to connect to the main server. I used EVE online as an example. That game is enormous, with damn nice graphics (better if you have a Video Card of course), but you just download a tiny file, and you can play from anywhere...

This goes a step further (which is awesome) and I really wish I owned part of that company because it is going to make a shit load of money.

[007]

Great, yet another way to charge more for bandwidth usage.

If you don't have a decent enough ISP you wouldn't even be able to use this.

[Pants]

Great, yet another way to charge more for bandwidth usage.

If you don't have a decent enough ISP you wouldn't even be able to use this.

Pretty sure this would be just another option. I don't think consoles and hard copy games are going anywhere any time soon. They've tried something similar to this a while back, if I remember correctly, and it failed miserably, so we'll see how this fares if it takes off.

[oaklandhater]

Pretty sure this would be just another option. I don't think consoles and hard copy games are going anywhere any time soon. They've tried something similar to this a while back, if I remember correctly, and it failed miserably, so we'll see how this fares if it takes off.

The Phantom was a controversial video game console that was allegedly under development by Phantom Entertainment, formerly Infinium Labs. The cancelled device was supposedly planned to be capable of playing current and future PC games, giving the system a massive initial game library and making it easier for developers to produce games for the system. The system was supposedly designed to use a direct-download content delivery service instead of the discs and cartridges used by most game consoles


Was almost 100% vaporware

[Pants]

The Phantom was a controversial video game console that was allegedly under development by Phantom Entertainment, formerly Infinium Labs. The cancelled device was supposedly planned to be capable of playing current and future PC games, giving the system a massive initial game library and making it easier for developers to produce games for the system. The system was supposedly designed to use a direct-download content delivery service instead of the discs and cartridges used by most game consoles


Was almost 100% vaporware

I was talking about something else, **** me, let me go look for it. It was advertised for a while and people even posted threads about it towards the end of its life...

EDIT: Never mind, maybe THIS is what I had in mind. Could have swore it was called something completely different and the box looked different in my head as well, but the idea behind it is the same, so it must have been that. I was also sure it made it's way to very limited sales and then failed miserably...

[kaplin42]

Great, yet another way to charge more for bandwidth usage.

If you don't have a decent enough ISP you wouldn't even be able to use this.

Standard DSL/Cable is 1.5mbs down, which is what they said would be needed for 480p. This is pretty common, and costs $14-$24 depending on where you live, and what deal you got.

Pretty much the only people that wont be able to use it are dial-up, and people who don't have internet at all.

[Basileus777]

Standard DSL/Cable is 1.5mbs down, which is what they said would be needed for 480p. This is pretty common, and costs $14-$24 depending on where you live, and what deal you got.

Pretty much the only people that wont be able to use it are dial-up, and people who don't have internet at all.

That has nothing to do with bandwidth caps.

[kaplin42]

That has nothing to do with bandwidth caps.

Phew, thats a good thing, cause I wasn't talking about caps. Go back and read who I quoted and what my response was again.

[bishop_74]

Sounds like ****ing blasphemy, but I guess that's progress. I can see how this would work in countries like Japan or Sweden were the broadband is actually that - BROAD. Here, it would be a feat to make something like this work, but that's the future of gaming/video and entertainment in general.

Pretty soon we'll just have wall screens connected through wireless broadband providing all forms of entertainment.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multicast

[007]

That has nothing to do with bandwidth caps.

Phew, thats a good thing, cause I wasn't talking about caps. Go back and read who I quoted and what my response was again.

Standard DSL/Cable is 1.5mbs down, which is what they said would be needed for 480p. This is pretty common, and costs $14-$24 depending on where you live, and what deal you got.

Pretty much the only people that wont be able to use it are dial-up, and people who don't have internet at all.

Great, yet another way to charge more for bandwidth usage.

If you don't have a decent enough ISP you wouldn't even be able to use this.

Actually, I was referring to ISP speeds AND bandwidth caps.:)

[Fish]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multicast

You have to understand why multicasting has an advantage though. The reason multicasting is faster and more efficient is because it has the ability to take a single source and broadcast it to many different computers. As opposed to having a seperate source for each computer. The advantage exists because all the computers are getting the exact same data. When you are streaming computer games, that wouldn't be the case. Each user is going to be doing different things, so the server will have to send different data to each user. And with gaming it's not one big single file that's being transferred, it's thousands of small pieces of files. That effectively eliminates multicasting.

Also, multicasting is normally a one way transmission. Gaming requires constant back and forth transfer of information.

[macdawg]

I really hate the anti piracy going aounrd with the PC if your pc game did not sell well its becuase it wasn't very good not becuase pirates downloaded your game.

Look at sims 2 its one of the best selling pc games ever its also the most pirated PC game ever.

It's cheaper and more cost effective to just let Piarcy happen then try to fight it.

PC dev's should take note from Stardock.

thats not true at all, hundreds of thousands of people download good games, take a look at torrent sites a couple days after a big game is released and you will quickly see the scale of piracy.

http://www.tweakguides.com/Piracy_1.html

this article covers piracy very well imho