Chiefs sign OL Goff!!

[talastan]

http://chiefsblog.kansascity.com/?q=node/748

Chiefs sign OL Goff
The Chiefs agreed to contract terms today with veteran offensive lineman Mike Goff. Goff has some versatility and could wind up starting for the Chiefs at center or right guard.

The 33-year-old Goff played 11 NFL seasons, the first six with Cincinnati and the last five with San Diego. He has been a starter for the past nine seasons.

[talastan]

Finally some more bodies on the O-line!

[keg in kc]

Cassel's gonna get killed because they're not fixing the line.

[ChiefRon]

Awesome, we did something to address the OL, and Goff is a definite upgrade.

[raybec 4]

Well that shores up the RG spot for at least a year or two, now get a center and a RT and that will be cool.

[talastan]

Cassel's gonna get killed because they're not fixing the line.

:spock: This would show that they were trying to improve the O-line.

[Buehler445]

Is he good, or did we just sign a scrub. 11 seasons is a long time. Injury problems?
Posted via Mobile Device

[Crush]

There is some immature joke regarding his name, but I can't place my finger on it.

[alpha_omega]

I like it....at least it is an effort towards the eventual goal....a completely re-vamped right side.

[BigChiefFan]

This is good insurance for us. We found our stop-gap, that should improve the O-line play some.

[Monty]

There is some immature joke regarding his name, but I can't place my finger on it.

As in.....Mike "turn your head and" Goff. :D

[talastan]

There is some immature joke regarding his name, but I can't place my finger on it.

He's much more talented than his brother Jack ROFL

[Crush]

LMAO

[Monty]

He's much more talented than his brother Jack ROFL

Or his other brother Fug.

[Iowanian]

He's an old Hawkeye war horse....

He's an upgrade over the turds currently occupying that spot, but he's not a long term solution by any means.

Even if he's only better than the last Olineman on the roster, an upgrade is an upgrade.

[BigChiefFan]

He's much more talented than his brother Jack ROFLOr his crazy cousin...Fug

[tomahawk kid]

From what I recall - this guy's pretty solid.

Much better than our other options at that spot at this point.

[Fish]

Good move. Makes Waters' shenanigans look even more unnecessary...

[htismaqe]

Solid move.

[Crush]

In all seriousness, I applaud this move.

[Monty]

Solid move.

Extremely solid move. :thumb:

[Kylo Ren]

Do we have anyone on the current roster who is a possiblity at C or RT? Any young up and coming guys?

[Sam Hall]

He sucks.

-DaneMcCloud

[Buck]

He'll be a solid stop-gap.

He will be useless after a couple years, but for now a major improvement over what you have.

[ChiefRon]

He's an old Hawkeye war horse....

He's an upgrade over the turds currently occupying that spot, but he's not a long term solution by any means.

Even if he's only better than the last Olineman on the roster, an upgrade is an upgrade.

That's cool with me.

I still think that was the flaw with Edwards' "build through the draft" philosophy was the total lack of upgrading positions with FAs that can help you compete, even if they're not long-term solutions.

You should still upgrade when you can, and it shouldn't preclude you from drafting the "long-term" solution at the position.

[Mr. Kotter]

Decent short-term move. Should definitely be an "upgrade" for a year or two.

[CupidStunt]

He had a real down year last year, but was a real solid player in a number of years before that.

[Bowser]

Put Goff at Center and move Rudy to RG?

[RustShack]

OK so heres a few of our options and what do you think?

Niswanger at C, Goff at RG
Goff as C, Niswanger at RG
Someone else at C(Wade Smith or rookie?), Goff at RG
Other.

[htismaqe]

We've had pretty good luck with ex-Hawkeye linemen...

[Wile_E_Coyote]

Beyounce sings

[Hammock Parties]

Larry!

[RustShack]

Do we have anyone on the current roster who is a possiblity at C or RT? Any young up and coming guys?

Wade Smith is a former center I believe, I also think Goff can play that position. I think Herb Taylor is someone who could be looked at for RG or RT, same with Barry Richardson. I also believe we will be adding someone through the draft.

[htismaqe]

Herb Taylor played admirably at LT, but he's just not made for OG or RT, IMO. He struggles at the point of attack because he's not strong enough. He just has really good footwork...

[Micjones]

Solid acquisition.

Shores up the Right Guard spot, but will make life difficult for Niswanger.
I guess you leave Rudy in the middle and draft both a Center and Guard in April.

That way you have your eventual successors for both he and Goff in 2 years.
And they can be depth players if they're still here by then.

[Mr. Kotter]

Do we have anyone on the current roster who is a possiblity at C or RT? Any young up and coming guys?

There is some hope and upside with Taylor, and possibly Richardson....whether their stint in development can produce another Brian Waters, I won't hold my breath. Smith's value is his versatility.

So, no....not really. I suspect we'll be drafting at least two OLinemen, and I wouldn't be shocked to see 4-5 picks between the OL and DL.

[talastan]

Here was a good article I found on him the Dolts website.

http://www.chargers.com/news/headlines/gritty-goff-ready.htm

Gritty Goff ready for 11th season
Send to a friend Print Page Adjust font size Tuesday, Aug 19, 2008
By Allison Johnson, Chargers.com
Mike Goff’s sturdy hands, best known for mixing it up with defensive tackles and linebackers, have endured multiple surgeries. His pain tolerance is so high it’s not unusual to see him slam a finger back into place between plays. He’s so focused that his position coaches sometimes have to pull him off the practice field to protect him.

And last Fall the 11-year veteran played three-fourths of the season with a torn plantar fasciitis, all the while keeping his streak of 90-consecutive starts in place even after his planter fascia completely snapped in December.

“A long time ago someone told me that there is a big difference between playing hurt and playing injured,” Goff said. “If you’re hurt you can play, but if you’re injured you can’t. I’ve always been taught that if you can still be effective and get your job done, then do it.”

That’s the blue-collar approach Goff has taken throughout his career. The old adage, “no pain, no gain” might as well be Goff’s theme song.

“Mike Goff is what I refer to as a warrior in this league,” Chargers offensive line coach Jack Henry said. “He’s a very unselfish player who has played at a high level for an extended period of time. He’s a hard worker and he has a great character. He’s not afraid to go out on the field and practice hurt, or to play hurt in a game. I have great respect and admiration for him.”

No secret potions. No quick-fix remedy. It’s simply a personal mental toughness mixed with good coaching. Goff takes pride in the fact that his coaches always expected the best and didn’t take being hurt as an excuse.

“You’ve got to play through some pain and that’s what develops your character,” Goff said. “You just learn to play through it, which enables you to build up a tolerance. I would say a majority of it is not wanting to let down my teammates or coaches. You just always want to go out there and perform at your best.”

Goff’s presence has certainly been felt since his arrival in San Diego. The Chargers have twice finished among the NFL’s top ten offenses in rushing during the five years Goff has been with the team. The Bolts have rushed for at least 2,000 yards in every season since Goff signed as a free agent in 2004.

“Mike’s a veteran player who gives us consistency and a very physical presence on the field,” Head Coach Norv Turner said.

It’s evident Goff’s character reflects his dedication and commitment to the game. His approach to his job has had a positive influence on those around him, particularly his fellow offensive linemen.

“Goff is a great example for a young offensive lineman to look up to coming into the league,” center Nick Hardwick said. “He shows you how to work, how to keep your head down, and how to accomplish what you’re asked to do.”

Goff exemplified devotion and commitment in his 2007 season. At a time where his absence would’ve affected the team’s performance, Goff braved the hits. He lived up to his words and played through the pain. With Goff’s experience and work ethic, another memorable season from the offensive line can be expected.

[Micjones]

There is some hope and upside with Taylor, and possibly Richardson....whether their stint in development can produce another Brian Waters, I won't hold my breath. Smith's value is his versatility.

So, no....not really. I suspect we'll be drafting at least two OLinemen, and I wouldn't be shocked to see 4-5 picks between the OL and DL.

I think we need three.
Center, Guard, and Right Tackle.

[Buck]

PS, hes not that great as a run blocker...better Pass blocker

[keg in kc]

:spock: This would show that they were trying to improve the O-line.I was being ironical.

[bdeg]

Richardson has good upside, based on his early work I'm excited to see if he develops in a couple years.

[keg in kc]

PS, hes not that great as a run blocker...better Pass blockerThat would fit our needs I would imagine.

[Micjones]

Richardson has good upside, based on his early work I'm excited to see if he develops in a couple years.

They say he lacks the killer instinct necessary to play the position.
He has the physical tools and the size. Just not the head for the game.

[Mr. Kotter]

I think we need three.
Center, Guard, and Right Tackle.

If we fill two spots, and stay with Waters and Albert on the left side....generally you can play with one weak link. Our problem is, as you say, we have three weak links.

[htismaqe]

PS, hes not that great as a run blocker...better Pass blocker

As opposed to Jones who wasn't great at anything. Hell, he wasn't even ADEQUATE at anything. :)

[bdeg]

They say he lacks the killer instinct necessary to play the position.
He has the physical tools and the size. Just not the head for the game.
Doesn't Albert have a similar demeanor?

It's possible to develop intensity

[htismaqe]

They say he lacks the killer instinct necessary to play the position.
He has the physical tools and the size. Just not the head for the game.

Yep. Not necessarily lazy. He just doesn't have the fire in his belly. No mean streak. He's just too laid back.

[talastan]

I was being ironical.

My bad LMAO Is that like being sarcastical? :)

[htismaqe]

Doesn't Albert have a similar demeanor?

It's possible to develop intensity

Albert is more of a technician, but he's also a LT, not a guard.

[bdeg]

Albert is more of a technician, but he's also a LT, not a guard.

You consider BRich too slow for RT?

Or I suppose that's where the killer instinct would be necessary.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

This is good insurance for us. We found our stop-gap, that should improve the O-line play some.

I agree. We've been waiting for years for them to do something with the line. He's an effective, proven starter.

[talastan]

You consider BRich too slow for RT?

I think that BRich not having that mean streak hampers him as the RT, because typically your RT is you run blocker IIRC.

[Micjones]

If we fill two spots, and stay with Waters and Albert on the left side....generally you can play with one weak link. Our problem is, as you say, we have three weak links.

I think Niswanger's adequate at Center.
He's just not a long term solution there.
Give me Eric Wood or Alex Mack there for the future.
Add a Guard and a RT in the draft as well.

[Micjones]

Kevin Shaffer's still out there.

How solid would the line be if they added him to play Right Tackle?

[bdeg]

I think that BRich not having that mean streak hampers him as the RT, because typically your RT is you run blocker IIRC.
He's a better run blocker than pass blocker

And prototypical RT size at 6-7 330

[Titty Meat]

This was a good signing. Does anybody know what other teams were interested in Goff?

[htismaqe]

You consider BRich too slow for RT?

Or I suppose that's where the killer instinct would be necessary.

Right. Guards and RT's need to be a little more mean. A left tackle can get away with being a more cerebral player.

[CupidStunt]

“Goff is a great example for a young offensive lineman to look up to coming into the league,” center Nick Hardwick said. “He shows you how to work, how to keep your head down, and how to accomplish what you’re asked to do.”

Get used to it, folks. It's all about character.

[bdeg]

Right. Guards and RT's need to be a little more mean. A left tackle can get away with being a more cerebral player.

I totally agree, here's to hoping one of his coaches kicks his ass

I know these things arent gold but here's a scouting report
POSITIVES: Athletic blocker with outstanding size. Quick into blocks, powerful at the point, and moves opponents off the line. Moves well for such a large man and flashes surprising mobility. Slides out off the edge and does enough to protect the quarterback.s blindside. Fights with his hands and jolts opponents with good hand-punch or engulfs them altogether.
NEGATIVES: Bends at the waist, which adversely affects his balance. Does too much leaning on opponents rather than actual blocking. Must slim down and better condition himself.

ANALYSIS: When focused on his game, Richardson is a dominant blocker with a variety of skills. All too often he got by with his natural skills at Clemson, so he never took his game to another level. Close to being labeled as an underachiever, Richardson must start to live up to expectations and play to his potential.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/players/11302.html

It's not like BigMac is the epitome of killer instinct either lol

[TinyEvel]

I wonder if this is because Waters will be gone soon?

[kc rush]

My bad LMAO Is that like being sarcastical? :)

As long as no one gets testyical around here, things will be fine.

[CupidStunt]

Kevin Shaffer's still out there.

How solid would the line be if they added him to play Right Tackle?

Still need a legit center and possibly someone to replace Waters (who's very overrated whether he stays or goes). But it'd be a vast improvement.

[MMXcalibur]

Herb Taylor reminds me of an offensive Jimmy Wilkerson. He does a lil' bit of everything fairly well. Mind you, it's only been 1 year, but still...I get that feeling from him.

As for Mike Goff, if he was on the O-line for LT during some of his glory years, then why the hell not....bring 'em along. Hmmm....a mixture of veteran and newbie talent on a professional football club? Who KNEW!?!?

[Chief Faithful]

Here was a good article I found on him the Dolts website.

http://www.chargers.com/news/headlines/gritty-goff-ready.htm

Gritty Goff ready for 11th season
Send to a friend Print Page Adjust font size Tuesday, Aug 19, 2008
By Allison Johnson, Chargers.com
Mike Goff’s sturdy hands, best known for mixing it up with defensive tackles and linebackers, have endured multiple surgeries. His pain tolerance is so high it’s not unusual to see him slam a finger back into place between plays. He’s so focused that his position coaches sometimes have to pull him off the practice field to protect him.
And last Fall the 11-year veteran played three-fourths of the season with a torn plantar fasciitis, all the while keeping his streak of 90-consecutive starts in place even after his planter fascia completely snapped in December.

“A long time ago someone told me that there is a big difference between playing hurt and playing injured,” Goff said. “If you’re hurt you can play, but if you’re injured you can’t. I’ve always been taught that if you can still be effective and get your job done, then do it.”

That’s the blue-collar approach Goff has taken throughout his career. The old adage, “no pain, no gain” might as well be Goff’s theme song.

“Mike Goff is what I refer to as a warrior in this league,” Chargers offensive line coach Jack Henry said. “He’s a very unselfish player who has played at a high level for an extended period of time. He’s a hard worker and he has a great character. He’s not afraid to go out on the field and practice hurt, or to play hurt in a game. I have great respect and admiration for him.”

No secret potions. No quick-fix remedy. It’s simply a personal mental toughness mixed with good coaching. Goff takes pride in the fact that his coaches always expected the best and didn’t take being hurt as an excuse.

“You’ve got to play through some pain and that’s what develops your character,” Goff said. “You just learn to play through it, which enables you to build up a tolerance. I would say a majority of it is not wanting to let down my teammates or coaches. You just always want to go out there and perform at your best.”

Goff’s presence has certainly been felt since his arrival in San Diego. The Chargers have twice finished among the NFL’s top ten offenses in rushing during the five years Goff has been with the team. The Bolts have rushed for at least 2,000 yards in every season since Goff signed as a free agent in 2004.

“Mike’s a veteran player who gives us consistency and a very physical presence on the field,” Head Coach Norv Turner said.

It’s evident Goff’s character reflects his dedication and commitment to the game. His approach to his job has had a positive influence on those around him, particularly his fellow offensive linemen.

“Goff is a great example for a young offensive lineman to look up to coming into the league,” center Nick Hardwick said. “He shows you how to work, how to keep your head down, and how to accomplish what you’re asked to do.”

Goff exemplified devotion and commitment in his 2007 season. At a time where his absence would’ve affected the team’s performance, Goff braved the hits. He lived up to his words and played through the pain. With Goff’s experience and work ethic, another memorable season from the offensive line can be expected.

We are starting to see common characteristics among all the free agent signings. Seems to be a Don Pioli type player.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

My bad LMAO Is that like being sarcastical? :)

:D

[Micjones]

Still need a legit center and possibly someone to replace Waters (who's very overrated whether he stays or goes). But it'd be a vast improvement.

I think you can live with Niswanger at Center for another year.
Draft Eric Wood, Max Unger, or Alex Mack as your COTF so they'll be prepared to take over when the time comes. I'd also make an investment at Guard and Right Tackle.

I doubt seriously that Waters is going anywhere.
You have at least this season to find a Left Guard elsewhere.
Either in FA or next year's draft.

If the Chiefs were able to add Shaffer this would become a respectable Offensive Line real quick.

We currently have no answer at Right Tackle.

[Mr. Krab]

Insurance in case we don't get Oline in the draft or the newly drafted Olineman struggle.

[Chief Faithful]

As opposed to Jones who wasn't great at anything. Hell, he wasn't even ADEQUATE at anything. :)

He wasn't good enough to grade inferior. As a player I would grade his performance as execrable.

[talastan]

**** Adrian Jones!! :cuss: As for Niswanger the only legitmate knock on him at Center that I've heard is his height (6-5). But if Cassel is (and he better be) the starter, at 6-4 Cassel should have a much better vantage point than Thigpen who is only 6-1.

[Micjones]

**** Adrian Jones!! :cuss: As for Niswanger the only legitmate knock on him at Center that I've heard is his height (6-5). But if Cassel is (and he better be) the starter, at 6-4 Cassel should have a much better vantage point than Thigpen who is only 6-1.

Yeah. Niswanger's a bit too tall to really be effective there.
He played well at Right Guard though (ironically).

[bdeg]

**** Adrian Jones!! :cuss: As for Niswanger the only legitmate knock on him at Center that I've heard is his height (6-5). But if Cassel is (and he better be) the starter, at 6-4 Cassel should have a much better vantage point than Thigpen who is only 6-1.

A short center gets better leverage against a NT, it's not about the QB

[talastan]

A short center gets better leverage against a NT, it's not about the QB

That makes much more sense. Thanks! :thumb:

[ChiefsCountry]

Its not his height, go look at the height of all the centers that we want to draft. Rudy just sucks.

[Kylo Ren]

Herb Taylor played admirably at LT, but he's just not made for OG or RT, IMO. He struggles at the point of attack because he's not strong enough. He just has really good footwork... Taylor may be the next Marcus Spears? A solid utility lineman? :spock:

[BigChiefFan]

Move Goff to Center, Niswanger to RT, and McIntosh to RG. Throw in some rookies and we have a chance of upgrading the O-line.

[Micjones]

Its not his height, go look at the height of all the centers that we want to draft. Rudy just sucks.

:spock:

Unger, Wood, and Mack are ALL shorter than Niswanger.

[ChiefsCountry]

Move Goff to Center, Niswanger to RT, and McIntosh to RG. Throw in some rookies and we have a chance of upgrading the O-line.

That is just retarded all the way around.

[Micjones]

Move Goff to Center, Niswanger to RT, and McIntosh to RG. Throw in some rookies and we have a chance of upgrading the O-line.

Eww... No.

If we're going to move Goff to Center, I'd move Niswanger to RG, and sign Shaffer to play Right Tackle.

[RustShack]

:spock:

Unger, Wood, and Mack are ALL shorter than Niswanger.

I don't know how tall Mack and Wood are, but I know Unger is the same size as Niswanger...

[Titty Meat]

Shaffer sucked last year. Draft a rookie to play center this year move him to guard in a few seasons.

[buddha]

More competition at any of the OL positions is a good thing. Having a guy who is tough and finds ways to be on the field during games as opposed to finding excuses for missing the games makes Goff much more valuable than a lot of guys who may have more skills or "upside."

[Buck]

Goff can't play Center.

The Chargers center was injured the last couple years and Goff was never considered.

[ChiefsCountry]

:spock:

Unger, Wood, and Mack are ALL shorter than Niswanger.

Unger is 6'5 and Wood/Mack are 6'4. Not to mention Mawae and Birk are 6'5. Again height isnt the problem. Rudy would be a nice backup.

[raybec 4]

Move Goff to Center, Niswanger to RT, and McIntosh to RG. Throw in some rookies and we have a chance of upgrading the O-line.

Yeah, they should also move Waters to DE, Gonzo to LG and Albert to LB that way everybody is playing out of position.

[BigChiefFan]

That is just retarded all the way around.Thanks, corkster for your insightful post. Maybe do some research and find out that the Chiefs HAVE DISCUSSED MOVING McIntosh to the inside, as a guard. We're does that leave Goff? Hmmmm, maybe as the center, like I suggested. Hmm, where does that put McIntosh, as the RG, like I suggested. Hmmmm. Never go full on corky.

[RustShack]

Thanks, corkster for your insightful post. Maybe do some research and find out that the Chiefs HAVE DISCUSSED MOVING McIntosh to the inside, as a guard. We're does that leave Goff? Hmmmm, maybe as the center, like I suggested. Hmm, where does that put McIntosh, as the RG, like I suggested. Hmmmm. Never go full on corky.

I don't think the Chiefs discussed that, I think we did. Also you really have no idea what Haley or Muir think of McIntosh unless you have personally talked to them...

[Micjones]

Unger is 6'5 and Wood/Mack are 6'4. Not to mention Mawae and Birk are 6'5. Again height isnt the problem. Rudy would be a nice backup.

Wood/Mack are both listed at 6'3.
Unger? 6'4...

Maybe it's all splitting hairs, but Niswanger's listed at 6'5.

[Hammock Parties]

McIntosh would be fucking terrible inside.

[Titty Meat]

lol @ playing guys out of position. Hmmm dude thats part of the reason the last coaching staff sucked

[Buck]

I guess I'm wrong.

Check this out.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/football/nfl/players/Mike_Goff/

Pros:Tough, powerful run blocker. Can drive his man off the ball. Seems to get better every year. Has the experience to play center.

Cons: Not a natural athlete. Can get out-quicked by speed rushers.

(This was probably written a few years back. He's not a great Run Blocker anymore)

[Micjones]

Shaffer sucked last year. Draft a rookie to play center this year move him to guard in a few seasons.

Shaffer's not a world-beater, did have a down year, but he's still a significant upgrade at RT and would be a better option that forcing some rookie on to the field.

Or would you maybe make a run at Pace?

[Cornstock]

In your opinions, does Richardson need to see the field by the end of the year to be worth a damn? I know he was a project guy going in, but how long can you wait?

[ChiefsCountry]

Thanks, corkster for your insightful post. Maybe do some research and find out that the Chiefs HAVE DISCUSSED MOVING McIntosh to the inside, as a guard. We're does that leave Goff? Hmmmm, maybe as the center, like I suggested. Hmm, where does that put McIntosh, as the RG, like I suggested. Hmmmm. Never go full on corky.

I have, the Dolphins and Chargers both tried to move McIntosh to guard and he failed miserablly. This was talked about a ton last offseason. Not to mention Goff has never played center with San Diego.

[Titty Meat]

Shaffer's not a world-beater, did have a down year, but he's still a significant upgrade at RT and would be a better option that forcing some rookie on to the field.

Or would you maybe make a run at Pace?

What about Herb? He's played good when he's played. Crapintosh didn't play too bad at the end of the year. I think we should draft a RT

[Micjones]

In your opinions, does Richardson need to see the field by the end of the year to be worth a damn? I know he was a project guy going in, but how long can you wait?

I was really hoping he'd get a tryout down the stretch last year.
I think with Cassel as your guy you can't afford to test him out on the field.
He's gonna have to perform his way into that PT.

[Titty Meat]

Petro said that this was the biggest signing of the off-season for us

[Micjones]

What about Herb? He's played good when he's played. Crapintosh didn't play too bad at the end of the year. I think we should draft a RT

Taylor's not a RT. He's too small to play there.
McIntosh did play better down the stretch, but I'm ready to move on.

I think we need to draft a Right Tackle regardless.
I just think the smartest thing to do is not force that draftee into a starting role right away unless they're ready.

Signing Shaffer or Pace relieves that pressure and gives you time to get the young guy ready to go. It also gives you immediate stability and the ability to keep your $14,000,000 QB upright.

[Chiefnj2]

Goff at RG and try to draft a Center who can start at some time in the 2009 season. Later in the draft take a RT tackle prospect and let him battle it out with all the other linemen on the roster.

[Micjones]

Petro said that this was the biggest signing of the off-season for us

That doesn't say much.
We really haven't signed anyone in Free Agency.
Cassel/Vrabel were acquired via trade.

Other than Goff the highest profile signing has been Bobby Engram.

[RustShack]

Wood/Mack are both listed at 6'3.
Unger? 6'4...

Maybe it's all splitting hairs, but Niswanger's listed at 6'5.

Well at the combine Mack and Wood were 6-4 and Unger was 6-5...

[Mecca]

:spock:

Unger, Wood, and Mack are ALL shorter than Niswanger.

I think his point is that Niswanger is to tall not to short.

[Cornstock]

I was really hoping he'd get a tryout down the stretch last year.
I think with Cassel as your guy you can't afford to test him out on the field.
He's gonna have to perform his way into that PT.

Ya I agree, last year I was hoping he would get some good time considering we were so bad and had nothing to lose anyway. Similar to the way Herb got some good time at the end of the year two years ago.

[BigChiefFan]

Gee, guys, let's not read and shoot the messenger, okay??


Taken from a VERY RECENT article already posted on this site...

Former San Diego Chargers guard Mike Goff visited the Kansas City Chiefs today according to Bill Williamson of ESPN.

Goff is a 33 year old guard originally drafted by the Bengals in the 3rd round of the 1998 draft. After six seasons in Cincinnati, he moved to the AFC West spending five years with the Chargers.

San Diego decided not to pursue another contract with Goff following the 2008 season.

Though his age is a bit of concern, his durability isn't. He's started a full 16 game slate every season dating back to 2002.

If Brian Waters returns to the team in 2009, the Chiefs are set at left guard. However, a hole exists at right guard which was filled in 2008 by Adrian Jones. There's even been some talk of moving Damion McIntosh to the guard position opposite of Waters.
The Chiefs are also attending a private workout with LSU defensive tackle Ricky Jean-Francois today so it's unclear what coaches and/or part of the management team are attending what workout and if any contracts will be offered.

Tackling the guard position in free agency would go a long way to shoring up the Chiefs offensive line. As it stands now, the Chiefs likely have to add a guard and long-term solutions at center and right tackle.

The Chargers have been an excellent running team the past few years so it's nice to see the Chiefs strategy for the offensive line over the offseason entails players from successful units.

[RustShack]

Petro said that this was the biggest signing of the off-season for us

Who do you think we signed thats bigger?

[Micjones]

I think his point is that Niswanger is to tall not to short.

You missed MY point Mecca.
I was responding to the idea that the Centers we're looking to draft are as tall as Niswanger. That's not true. They're all shorter.

[Titty Meat]

That doesn't say much.
We really haven't signed anyone in Free Agency.
Cassel/Vrabel were acquired via trade.

Other than Goff the highest profile signing has been Bobby Engram.

Engram & Bisel will both improve this team and I do agree with Petro. Goff will help this team win football games if Herm would have signed some guys like Goff last season he probably still has a job instead of signing a guy like Adrian Jones who hadn't played in 4 years. Pioli is building this team beautifully

[Micjones]

Ya I agree, last year I was hoping he would get some good time considering we were so bad and had nothing to lose anyway. Similar to the way Herb got some good time at the end of the year two years ago.

Exactly. I think the staff really dropped the ball in that regard.
There were several players that needed to be evaluated in real game situations that never got that chance.

[Micjones]

Engram & Bisel will both improve this team and I do agree with Petro. Goff will help this team win football games if Herm would have signed some guys like Goff last season he probably still has a job instead of signing a guy like Adrian Jones who hadn't played in 4 years. Pioli is building this team beautifully

I agree.

If he can find a veteran to help out at Right Tackle BEFORE the draft...
He can pretty much leave the offense alone (in FA I mean).
It'd be nice to maybe add a young guy at WR (like McDonald or Reggie Williams), but...
We can live without one.

[Mecca]

Shaun McDonald does the same thing Bobby Engram does no need for 2 of the same thing.

[RustShack]

Well at the combine Mack and Wood were 6-4 and Unger was 6-5...

You missed MY point Mecca.
I was responding to the idea that the Centers we're looking to draft are as tall as Niswanger. That's not true. They're all shorter.


Two of the three are shorter by an inch... and it could even be less than an inch for all we know... Is it really that big of a difference?

[Mecca]

Two of the three are shorter by an inch... and it could even be less than an inch for all we know... Is it really that big of a difference?

Yea the difference is they're actually good.

[Cornstock]

Engram & Bisel will both improve this team and I do agree with Petro. Goff will help this team win football games if Herm would have signed some guys like Goff last season he probably still has a job instead of signing a guy like Adrian Jones who hadn't played in 4 years. Pioli is building this team beautifully

Haha remember Beisel the first time around here and how bad he sucked. I know hes a lot different of a player than he was when he was here the first time, and I also think that it was a bad fit for him because of the defensive culture and scheme. I hope he does well this time.

[Micjones]

Shaun McDonald does the same thing Bobby Engram does no need for 2 of the same thing.

Yeah, but he's younger...

Honestly do you feel real comfortable at the WR position?
Bowe's the only guy I'm confident in.
Bradley did some great things here last year and would be the perfect #2 if he could stay healthy. Franklin's progress last year was a bit retarded and he dealt with injuries too... Webb's never lived up to his potential. Engram's 36 and should only figure in as a slot guy.

You wouldn't wanna throw another guy into the mix?

[Micjones]

Two of the three are shorter by an inch... and it could even be less than an inch for all we know... Is it really that big of a difference?

That's not all there is to consider, no.
But when he's not a technician like Weigmann or a mauler like Grunhard that one inch makes a pretty big difference I think. Just my 2 cents.

[Cornstock]

Yeah, but he's younger...

Honestly do you feel real comfortable at the WR position?
Bowe's the only guy I'm confident in.
Bradley did some great things here last year and would be the perfect #2 if he could stay healthy. Franklin's progress last year was a bit retarded and he dealt with injuries too... Webb's never lived up to his potential. Engram's 36 and should only figure in as a slot guy.

You wouldn't wanna throw another guy into the mix?

I do feel a lot better about it than I did at the beginning of last year. Still some be be desired though.

[RustShack]

Yea the difference is they're actually good.

Oh I'm not doubting that, I'm just making the point that people keep saying the reason Niswanger is bad is because hes too tall, yet they want to draft these guys who are the same size.

[Mecca]

Jeff Webb blows and will probably get cut...

We don't have good WR's but adding more blah guys isn't going to help the Chiefs in reality need another starter they have most of the backup roles filled.

[Micjones]

I dofeel a lot better about it than I did at the beginning of last year. Still some be be desired though.

It's definitely better than last year.
We didn't have Bradley to begin the 2008 season.

[Micjones]

Jeff Webb blows and will probably get cut...

We don't have good WR's but adding more blah guys isn't going to help the Chiefs in reality need another starter they have most of the backup roles filled.

Guess you have to go back to the well in the Draft then...

[Mecca]

Oh I'm not doubting that, I'm just making the point that people keep saying the reason Niswanger is bad is because hes too tall, yet they want to draft these guys who are the same size.

Oh he's not bad because he's to tall, he's bad because he's a big guy with no strength that gets pushed around. He's basically a backup at best.

[Mecca]

Guess you have to go back to the well in the Draft then...

Well it's true, when you guy sign a guy like Terrance Copper to be a backup special teams guy that screams that Jeff Webb is out.

You carry 5 to 6 WR's the Chiefs have most of the roles filled there other than the 2.

[BigChiefFan]

However, a hole exists at right guard which was filled in 2008 by Adrian Jones. There's even been some talk of moving Damion McIntosh to the guard position opposite of Waters.


Glad you fuckers acknowledged it.

[milkman]

Engram & Bisel will both improve this team and I do agree with Petro. Goff will help this team win football games if Herm would have signed some guys like Goff last season he probably still has a job instead of signing a guy like Adrian Jones who hadn't played in 4 years. Pioli is building this team beautifully

Well then, thank your lucky stars that Herman fucking Edwards was too fucking stupid to sign guys like this last offseason.

[Chief Faithful]

Niswanger might be able to get the job done at center with Goff on his right, Waters on his left and a year of experience under his belt. Personnally I think most of you guys underestimate how much Adrian Jones sucked. Adrian Jones was so bad he belonged on the Raiders OLine.

[RustShack]

Just wait until Pioli shocks everyone and drafts Crabtree. Bowe, Crabtree, Engram, Bradley... tits

[Mecca]

Niswanger might be able to get the job done at center with Goff on his right, Waters on his left and a year of experience under his belt. Personnally I think most of you guys underestimate how much Adrian Jones sucked. Adrian Jones was so bad he belonged on the Raiders OLine.

That doesn't change the fact that Niswanger got absolutely manhandled numerous times.

[Hammock Parties]

However, a hole exists at right guard which was filled in 2008 by Adrian Jones. There's even been some talk of moving Damion McIntosh to the guard position opposite of Waters.


Glad you fuckers acknowledged it.

No one really cares. McIntosh would be unbelievably shitty at RG.

[Mecca]

Just wait until Pioli shocks everyone and drafts Crabtree. Bowe, Crabtree, Engram, Bradley... tits

I'd rather have DHB...if they were going WR first I'd seriously rather trade down 2 times first and take DHB.

[milkman]

However, a hole exists at right guard which was filled in 2008 by Adrian Jones. There's even been some talk of moving Damion McIntosh to the guard position opposite of Waters.


Glad you ****ers acknowledged it.

Why acknowledge it?

It's speculation by a reporter, and if that reporter had done some research he'd have found that the Dolphins tried Suckintosh inside and it was miserable failure, as ChiefsCountry already pointed out.

Playing inside requires lower body strength, and Suckintosh is weak in the lower body.

[Micjones]

I'd rather have DHB...if they were going WR first I'd seriously rather trade down 2 times first and take DHB.

Shit... How nice would that be?
That guy is nails.

[BigChiefFan]

No one really cares. McIntosh would be unbelievably shitty at RG. I could give a shit about McIntosh, but when people go full-on dogpile and then get egg on their face, because it has been suggested by our organization and they act as if it hasn't, it's only right to set the record straight.

[Fish]

Keep doubting Jeff Webb... no seriously, I wasn't being sarcastic....

[Mecca]

Keep doubting Jeff Webb... no seriously, I wasn't being sarcastic....

Don't worry I will, with the moves the Chiefs made he became camp fodder.

[MOhillbilly]

a center has to be strong and agile at the point of attack after the hike of the ball, have his head on a swivel playing 2 gaps. The center is the most athletic position of the O down lineman. doesnt matter how tall or short you are.

[bdeg]

I could give a shit about McIntosh, but when people go full-on dogpile and then get egg on their face, because it has been suggested by our organization and they act as if it hasn't, it's only right to set the record straight.
there's no way I believe that talk came from a coach.

[chiefs1111]

Jeff Webb blows and will probably get cut...

We don't have good WR's but adding more blah guys isn't going to help the Chiefs in reality need another starter they have most of the backup roles filled.

Im actually surprised he's still here....

[Ultra Peanut]

I give it two exclamation points out of three.

[petegz28]

Awesome, we did something to address the OL, and Goff is a definite upgrade.


This. He is the kind of veteran we need on the line right now.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

JesusO-line talk is boring.

(Unsubscribe)

[HemiEd]

He sucks.

-DaneMcCloud

He is dead, his is over 25, JFC!!!11!!

[ncCHIEFfan]

A pos. move

[Wilson8]

I think this is excellent news. I wonder what kind of money contracts guys like Engram and Goff received. I think both guys can help the team and I don't think either would require long term or big money contracts.

I really think KC will look pretty hard at drafting a center. I still would not mind a right tackle signing like Kevin Shaffer until we can draft and develop a RT.

[Cornstock]

Any chance Franklin gets it to click this year? I think hes got a shot, especially with some legit coaches and the (hopefully) leadership of Engram.

[Micjones]

Any chance Franklin gets it to click this year? I think hes got a shot, especially with some legit coaches and the (hopefully) leadership of Engram.

He certainly doesn't have much in front of him.
All he has to do is pick up the offense and produce.

Bradley hasn't proven that he can stay on the field.
If he could... He'd be your #2. We can't really rely on him though.
Not given him being injury-prone.

[RustShack]

I think Haley, Gailey, and Muir might be able to get something out of Richardson... he has what it takes physically...

[DaneMcCloud]

He sucks.

-DaneMcCloud

Go fuck yourself, Samantha

[DaneMcCloud]

Taylor may be the next Marcus Spears? A solid utility lineman? :spock:

You mean an overpaid cheerleader?

[DaneMcCloud]

This is a nice signing and I suspect he'll probably start at least 8 games this year at right guard, depending on the draft.

FWIW, there are far more available centers who could start immediately for the Chiefs beyond Mack & Unger.

[DaneMcCloud]

I think Haley, Gailey, and Muir might be able to get something out of Richardson... he has what it takes physically...

That would be nice but considering his scouting report, I doubt it.

[RustShack]

This is a nice signing and I suspect he'll probably start at least 8 games this year at right guard, depending on the draft

He will probably start 16...

[Micjones]

This is a nice signing and I suspect he'll probably start at least 8 games this year at right guard, depending on the draft.

FWIW, there are far more available centers who could start immediately for the Chiefs beyond Mack & Unger.

Would you be comfortable with a rookie on the line at that position?

[milkman]

Would you be comfortable with a rookie on the line at that position?

I would.

[Wilson8]

Would you be comfortable with a rookie on the line at that position?

Without a doubt.

If you look around the league, it has been done several times, including Dan Koppen (5th Rd) with the Patriots. Hopefully Scott has a good eye for drafting centers.

[DaneMcCloud]

Would you be comfortable with a rookie on the line at that position?

Absolutely.

Mack, Unger, Caldwell, Wood and Shipley could all start day one and do well, IMO.

[DaneMcCloud]

Without a doubt.

If you look around the league, it has been done several times, including Dan Koppen (5th Rd) with the Patriots. Hopefully Scott has a good eye for drafting centers.

It would take a blind man to draft a bad center in this draft.

[DaneMcCloud]

He will probably start 16...

I think it depends on the draft. If a right guard is chosen, Goff may only start 8 games at most.

This is an extremely deep draft class for offensive lineman and there will be a lot of guys starting on day one from this class.

[Micjones]

Absolutely.

Mack, Unger, Caldwell, Wood and Shipley could all start day one and do well, IMO.

What about Luigs?
Not a fan?

[DaneMcCloud]

What about Luigs?
Not a fan?

I just forgot to mention him.

There's just so many guys that are ready to start!

[bdeg]

not sold on shipley, heard he has short arms and is maxed out.

[raybec 4]

It would take a blind man to draft a bad center in this draft.

I bet Carl could do it.

[DaneMcCloud]

not sold on shipley, heard he has short arms and is maxed out.

People said the same thing about Sam Baker last year...

[Micjones]

I just forgot to mention him.

There's just so many guys that are ready to start!

I'm not sold on Caldwell.
As a Day 1 starter anyway.

For my money... It's Unger, Mack, or Wood.

[Wilson8]

It would take a blind man to draft a bad center in this draft.

I'm sure it could be done. Just bring back Carl.

There are several good centers and I hope we get one of them. A.Q. Shipley has some good points but his height and short arms bother me a little.

[RedThat]

Good signing. I like Mike Goff. tough as nails, good run blocker, and another good veteran added to the team. Nice. I like. To make things better, Oline is improving.

[milkman]

I'm sure it could be done. Just bring back Carl.

There are several good centers and I hope we get one of them. A.Q. Shipley has some good points but his height and short arms bother me a little.

I am not bothered by the short arms at center.

Kid has decent athleticism, and moves pretty well.

He does a nice job of getting underneath the pads of his opponent coming out of the snap, I thought those short arms were actually beneficial in that effort.

On the outside at tackle, short arms would be problematic.

[RedThat]

Engram & Bisel will both improve this team and I do agree with Petro. Goff will help this team win football games if Herm would have signed some guys like Goff last season he probably still has a job instead of signing a guy like Adrian Jones who hadn't played in 4 years. Pioli is building this team beautifully

It's a good thing he didn't? The only way he would exit outta town is by losing. Which was the case, and very few ppl would want that guy running their football team anyway?

I just wish they woulda kept Wiegman? Wiegman, Goff, and Waters would be a nice trio on the interior part of the line.

[Micjones]

I'm sure it could be done. Just bring back Carl.

There are several good centers and I hope we get one of them. A.Q. Shipley has some good points but his height and short arms bother me a little.

Mack's arms are kinda short too aren't they?

[RedThat]

JesusO-line talk is boring.

(Unsubscribe)

It's not the most exciting position, but it is the foundation part of your football team. Oline talk shouldn't be boring because its extremely important.

[DaneMcCloud]

I just wish they woulda kept Wiegman? Wiegman, Goff, and Waters would be a nice trio on the interior part of the line.

:Lin:

[RedThat]

:Lin:

whats wrong with Wiegman? Or that trio

[milkman]

Mack's arms are kinda short too aren't they?

Yeah, they are.

[DaneMcCloud]

whats wrong with Wiegman? Or that trio

Collectively, they're more than a 100 years old.

No thanks.

[RedThat]

Collectively, they're more than a 100 years old.

No thanks.

What does that have to do with anything?

They're still productive players.

[Micjones]

Collectively, they're more than a 100 years old.

No thanks.

Good point.
Though short term I think it'd be a damn solid interior line to protect your 14 million-dollar man.

You could give your young draftees time to work their way in.

[DaneMcCloud]

What does that have to do with anything?

They're still productive players.

But how long before the wheels fall off?

Haven't you seen enough of that kind of shit with the Chiefs?

[DaneMcCloud]

Good point.
Though short term I think it'd be a damn solid interior line to protect your 14 million-dollar man.

You could give your young draftees time to work their way in.

It appears that the Chiefs are doing just that in re-signing Niswanger and signing Goff.

[htismaqe]

But how long before the wheels fall off?

Haven't you seen enough of that kind of shit with the Chiefs?

I'd rather TRY with guys like that and have the wheels fall off than do what we did last year and never take the training wheels off.

[Micjones]

It appears that the Chiefs are doing just that in re-signing Niswanger and signing Goff.

Niswanger's a serviceable player and would be great as depth.
I don't think he's a starter with a bullet this season.
Especially since he's not ideal at Center and since Goff's been signed.

And again, there are some very talented Centers in this year's draft class.

[RedThat]

But how long before the wheels fall off?

Haven't you seen enough of that kind of shit with the Chiefs?

Im convinced O-lineman can play into their mid 30's.

I've seen this shit with the Chiefs, and when they lost Roaf, wiegman, and Shields the line went to complete shits. But I also think the Oline sucked for various other reasons. Our coaching sucked, playcalling was too predictable, and they asked lineman to do things that did not comply to strengths.

*I realize this team has a lot of young players, but you get some veterans, bring more balance of veteran leadership and youth. I don't mind these kind of signings because they add something this team doesn't have enough of.

[Micjones]

Im convinced O-lineman can play into their mid 30's.

I've seen this shit with the Chiefs, and when they lost Roaf, wiegman, and Shields the line went to complete shits. But I also think the Oline sucked for various other reasons. Our coaching sucked, playcalling was too predictable, and they asked lineman to do things that did not comply to strengths.

*I realize this team has a lot of young players, but you get some veterans, bring more balance of veteran leadership and youth. I don't mind these kind of signings because they add something this team doesn't have enough of.

And if you couple them with 1-3 Offensive Linemen in this year's draft you kill two birds with one stone.

[DaneMcCloud]

I'd rather TRY with guys like that and have the wheels fall off than do what we did last year and never take the training wheels off.

I'm not sure I follow. The wheels had fallen off in 2006, yet Carl did nothing.

Albert, Niswanger & Taylor all saw a considerable amount of time. Sackintosh was another "old timer" signed by Carl that sucked. Alias Smith & Jones are both fairly young but they fucking blow.

Keeping Weigeman around at age 36 wouldn't have exactly solved the offensive line woes.

The Chiefs failed to draft any offensive lineman one day one for nearly a decade. That's how the line came to suck.

[RedThat]

And if you couple them with 1-3 Offensive Linemen in this year's draft you kill two birds with one stone.

It's a pretty good situation if you think about it? A nice blend as well. You bring some veterans and draft some young kids who probably won't start right away, but can learn behind those veterans.

I think thats what this signing will indicate? And the Vrabel signing I see the same way too.

[DaneMcCloud]

Im convinced O-lineman can play into their mid 30's.

I've seen this shit with the Chiefs, and when they lost Roaf, wiegman, and Shields the line went to complete shits. But I also think the Oline sucked for various other reasons. Our coaching sucked, playcalling was too predictable, and they asked lineman to do things that did not comply to strengths.

*I realize this team has a lot of young players, but you get some veterans, bring more balance of veteran leadership and youth. I don't mind these kind of signings because they add something this team doesn't have enough of.

I'm sorry, I fully disagree.

Sackintosh isn't going to be competent left or right tackle ever. I don't give a fuck who's coaching the line. Niswanger is a backup guard at best, Jones & Smith simply can't play and there's no depth beyond Taylor.

You cannot "coach up" guys that don't have talent.

[bdeg]

Mack's arms are kinda short too aren't they?
This is the difference<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/c8bjtM6dSC4&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/c8bjtM6dSC4&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

I really like the 3rd and short at about 2:16. Miami hits him immediately and hard, even disguised it so he wouldn't know which side it was coming from, but he gets low, gets leverage, and rides his guy out of the play.

And then look how he changes targets and blocks multiple people on the same play

[journeyscarab]

on nfl.com it says he may start at center or right guard

[DaneMcCloud]

It's a pretty good situation if you think about it? A nice blend as well. You bring some veterans and draft some young kids who probably won't start right away, but can learn behind those veterans.

I think thats what this signing will indicate? And the Vrabel signing I see the same way too.

If a new center, right guard and right tackle are drafted and don't start on day one, then the Chiefs have done a shitty job of drafting.

[Direckshun]

You absolute cannot build an OL on day one picks.

You have to get by with TWO day one picks AT MOST. One (LT) is most ideal and the most realistic. You can get by later in the draft at every other position.

The problem with the Chiefs is that they simply haven't thrown many picks period at the OL. The two we have given time to in the past few years have been Taylor and Richardson, and Taylor has promise to be a good LT backup and maybe more depending on our offense, and Richardson may be a solid OG.

[RedThat]

I'm not sure I follow. The wheels had fallen off in 2006, yet Carl did nothing.

Albert, Niswanger & Taylor all saw a considerable amount of time. Sackintosh was another "old timer" signed by Carl that sucked. Alias Smith & Jones are both fairly young but they ****ing blow.

Keeping Weigeman around at age 36 wouldn't have exactly solved the offensive line woes.

The Chiefs failed to draft any offensive lineman one day one for nearly a decade. That's how the line came to suck.

I think one of his biggest mistakes was not drafting Olineman when Roaf and shields were getting up there in age. I think he should of done that. So I can agree with you on that part.

[DaneMcCloud]

This is the difference<object width="425" height="344">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/c8bjtM6dSC4&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></object>

I really like the 3rd and short at about 2:16. Miami hits him hard, but he gets low, gets leverage, and rides his guy out of the play.

I like Mack (though I like Unger better) but the Chiefs have absolutely no chance of drafting either unless they trade out of the #3 hole.

[DaneMcCloud]

You absolute cannot build an OL on day one picks.

You have to get by with TWO day one picks AT MOST. One (LT) is most ideal and the most realistic. You can get by later in the draft at every other position.

The problem with the Chiefs is that they simply haven't thrown many picks period at the OL. The two we have given time to in the past few years have been Taylor and Richardson, and Taylor has promise to be a good LT backup and maybe more depending on our offense, and Richardson may be a solid OG.

Richardson has the ideal size and strength to be a dominant right tackle.

All he's missing is a desire to play football.

[RedThat]

If a new center, right guard and right tackle are drafted and don't start on day one, then the Chiefs have done a shitty job of drafting.

How so?

they don't necessarily have to start? Importantly, they have to learn. what better way to learn then having good experiened fellows teach you?

do you understand the concepts of how things work, and what Pioli is trying to do?

[DaneMcCloud]

I think one of his biggest mistakes was not drafting Olineman when Roaf and shields were getting up there in age. I think he should of done that. So I can agree with you on that part.

Oh, they drafted offensive lineman. The problem is, they fucking sucked.

Brett Williams, Jordan Black, Kevin Sampson and the All-Pro Will Svitek.

Suck, suck, suck and more suck.

[DaneMcCloud]

How so?

they don't necessarily have to start? Importantly, they have to learn. what better way to learn then having good experiened fellows teach you?

do you understand the concepts of how things work, and what Pioli is trying to do?

How so?

Because if the Chiefs draft a center that can't beat out Niswanger, they chose a shitty player.

If the Chiefs draft a right guard that can't beat out Smith or Jones, they chose a shitty player.

If the Chiefs draft a right tackle that can't beat out Sackintosh, they chose a shitty player.

See how that works?

[RedThat]

Oh, they drafted offensive lineman. The problem is, they ****ing sucked.

Brett Williams, Jordan Black, Kevin Sampson and the All-Pro Will Svitek.

Suck, suck, suck and more suck.

Okay they sucked buts that a different issue in general. That has more to do with bad evaluation and scouting. You can also throw in bad coaching too?

my point is, you still need veteran leadership, and of course it is important to find the right guys in the draft too.

[RedThat]

How so?

Because if the Chiefs draft a center that can't beat out Niswanger, they chose a shitty player.

If the Chiefs draft a right guard that can't beat out Smith or Jones, they chose a shitty player.

If the Chiefs draft a right tackle that can't beat out Sackintosh, they chose a shitty player.

See how that works?

Wtf does that have to do with anything Im talking about?

[milkman]

I really love how the people that put that Mack highlight film together felt the need to put a little arrow in pre-snap.

How could we have ever spotted the center otherwise?

[Direckshun]

Richardson has the ideal size and strength to be a dominant right tackle.

All he's missing is a desire to play football.

I hear that point made quite a bit about him.

Honestly, I just think he's a bit slow.

I think Richardson would be a solid OG in a power running offense, which I doubt we're going to. Instead, I believe we're going to a quicker, shotgun type offense, where Taylor might be more at home.

[kcsam07]

Shaffer's gone per rotoworld.


Bears sign OT Kevin Shaffer to three-yr deal

Bears agreed to terms with OT Kevin Shaffer on a three-year contract.

A 47-game starter for Cleveland from 2006-2008, Shaffer has been durable throughout his career and can play both tackle spots. His strength is in the run game, making Shaffer a good fit in Chicago. He will likely be penciled in at swing tackle behind LT Chris Williams and RT Frank Omiyale for now.

[DaneMcCloud]

Okay they sucked buts that a different issue in general. That has more to do with bad evaluation and scouting. You can also throw in bad coaching too?


The Chiefs offense under Vermeil and Saunders (and Mike Solari) was fully capable of developing offensive lineman? That's not the issue.

The Chiefs scouting and drafting under Vermeil was simply awful. Without a doubt, the worst period in the history of the franchise.

my point is, you still need veteran leadership, and of course it is important to find the right guys in the draft too.

If the "veteran leadership" is comprised of people like Willie Roaf and Will Shields, I'd say those are fine mentors.

If your "veteran leadership" is Sackintosh, Jones and the 'Wanger, not so much.

[DaneMcCloud]

I hear that point made quite a bit about him.

Honestly, I just think he's a bit slow.

I think Richardson would be a solid OG in a power running offense, which I doubt we're going to. Instead, I believe we're going to a quicker, shotgun type offense, where Taylor might be more at home.

Taylor is not suited for the right side. Too short, not strong enough and just flat out wrong.

As for Richardson, are you saying he's slow in terms of speed or that he ranks right up with Roy, Jr. in terms of intelligence?

[Direckshun]

As for Richardson, are you saying he's slow in terms of speed or that he ranks right up with Roy, Jr. in terms of intelligence?

Either.

[htismaqe]

I'm not sure I follow. The wheels had fallen off in 2006, yet Carl did nothing.

Albert, Niswanger & Taylor all saw a considerable amount of time. Sackintosh was another "old timer" signed by Carl that sucked. Alias Smith & Jones are both fairly young but they ****ing blow.

Keeping Weigeman around at age 36 wouldn't have exactly solved the offensive line woes.

The Chiefs failed to draft any offensive lineman one day one for nearly a decade. That's how the line came to suck.

Bringing in some established guys to bridge the gap between old and new is a sound move. However, like you said in subsequent posts, you absolutely HAVE to draft well so that you have guys that can step in when the old guys are no longer useful.

[milkman]

Either.

I disagree about the physical aspect.

The scouting report posted earlier in this thread on him agrees with me.

His problem is motivation.

[DaneMcCloud]

Either.

Richardson apparently graduated high school in 3 years, though I couldn't find his Wonderlic score.

He only ran a 5.45 forty at the combine. I don't think that's really all that relevant for a right tackle.

It just seems like he doesn't "love" the game. He's got all the tools to be a successful NFL tackle, if not an outstanding right tackle.

[milkman]

Richardson apparently graduated high school in 3 years, though I couldn't find his Wonderlic score.

He only ran a 5.45 forty at the combine. I don't think that's really all that relevant for a right tackle.

It just seems like he doesn't "love" the game.

He isn't fast, but he has relatively quick feet.

AdnI'd forgotten about how well he did acdemically.

[Micjones]

Shaffer's gone per rotoworld.


Bears sign OT Kevin Shaffer to three-yr deal

Bears agreed to terms with OT Kevin Shaffer on a three-year contract.

A 47-game starter for Cleveland from 2006-2008, Shaffer has been durable throughout his career and can play both tackle spots. His strength is in the run game, making Shaffer a good fit in Chicago. He will likely be penciled in at swing tackle behind LT Chris Williams and RT Frank Omiyale for now.

Damn, damn, damn...

Ah well... Who's left? Pace?

[bdeg]

Richardson is one of those guys that got by his entire life relying on his physical tools. Great size and good quickness, but he needs to work at it and learn some technique
as others have said he needs to play with better intensity too

[Cornstock]

This is the difference<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/c8bjtM6dSC4&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/c8bjtM6dSC4&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

I really like the 3rd and short at about 2:16. Miami hits him immediately and hard, even disguised it so he wouldn't know which side it was coming from, but he gets low, gets leverage, and rides his guy out of the play.

And then look how he changes targets and blocks multiple people on the same play

The one at 2:16 was the best block in the video. Smashed that guy

[Mecca]

Guys like Barry Richardson are who you take late round shots on, he started over 40 games in the ACC on a team that got significantly worse the year after he was gone...

[Jethopper]

Barry Richardson does not have the footwork to play RT in the NFL.

[Wilson8]

Top rated centers - Mack and Unger will probably be gone in later 1st round. We don't have a second round pick right now. I'm thinking Eric Wood, Antoine Caldwell, or A.Q. Shipley.

Alex Mack, California Height: 6-4. Weight: 307. Pro Day 40 Time: 5.17.
Benchx225: 20. Arm: 33. Projected Round (2009): 1.
1/8/09: Still on top and still a first-round prospect. Alex Mack was an AP All-America third-teamer.
11/2/08: Alex Mack continues his dominance on the field and atop these rankings. It's hard to imagine that he'll make it past the Cardinals, Steelers and Bills in the first round.

Max Unger, Oregon Height: 6-5. Weight: 309. Combine 40 Time: 5.27.
Benchx225: 22. Arm: 33 1/2. Projected Round (2009): 1-2.
2/19/09: Max Unger did a good job of putting on about 10 pounds since the end of the 2008 regular season.
1/8/09: The most versatile lineman in this class, Max Unger has emerged as a first-round prospect, thanks to a dynamic senior year. An All-Pac 10 first-teamer.
5/24/08: An extremely athletic and smart center who can also play offensive tackle. Max Unger's not as strong as some GMs would like, but he'll be an effective pass protector in a zone scheme.

Jonathan Luigs, Arkansas Height: 6-4. Weight: 301. Combine 40 Time: 5.14.
Benchx225: 26. Arm: 31 1/4. Projected Round (2009): 2.
1/8/09: An All-SEC second-teamer, it's unfortunate for Jonathan Luigs that he's stuck in a class with two of the best center prospects the NFL has seen in a while.

Eric Wood, Louisville Height: 6-4. Weight: 310. Combine 40 Time: 5.17.
Benchx225: 30. Arm: 33 3/4. Projected Round (2009): 2-3.
1/8/09: Eric Wood has made 49 consecutive starts. Crazy. He was voted to the All-Big East First Team.
5/26/08: You're getting a rock at center if you draft Eric Wood; he's started 37 consecutive games. He was voted to the All-Big East first team last year.

Antoine Caldwell, Alabama Height: 6-3. Weight: 309. Combine 40 Time: 5.23.
Benchx225: 23. Arm: 34. Projected Round (2009): 2-3.
1/8/09: Antoine Caldwell - not Alex Mack or Max Unger - was voted to the AP All-America First Team.
11/2/08: Should challenge Jonathan Luigs as the No. 2 center. A great leader and an outstanding talent.
5/26/08: Antoine Caldwell saw his 32-game consecutive start streak snapped because he was suspended for some weird situation involving his textbooks. School officials must have been confused that a talented player actually studied and took tests without help.

A.Q. Shipley, Penn State Height: 6-1. Weight: 304. Combine 40 Time: 5.19.
Benchx225: 33. Arm: 29 3/4. Projected Round (2009): 4.
3/22/09: Scored a 40 on his Wonderlic.
2/22/09: Ridiculously short arms could cost him, though he's very talented and will be taken in the middle rounds.
1/8/09: A.Q. Shipley started the final 39 games of his collegiate career. He was an AP All-America second-teamer.
5/26/08: A.Q. Shipley has started every game the past two years and was named to the All-Big Ten first team. Co-captain for the Nittany Lions in 2008.

Cecil Newton, Tennessee State Height: 6-2. Weight: 300. Pro Day 40 Time: 5.13.
Benchx225: 25. Projected Round (2009): 4-5.
1/8/09: A four-year starter and a qualifier for the All-OVC First Team. Tennessee State was renowned for running the ball effectively in 2008.
5/26/08: A third-year starter on Tennessee State's offensive front.

Data From - http://walterfootball.com/draft2009C.php

[milkman]

Barry Richardson does not have the footwork to play RT in the NFL.

Wrong.

[Mecca]

If 2 centers go in the 1st round I will be utterly stunned it's just not a valued position.

[milkman]

If 2 centers go in the 1st round I will be utterly stunned it's just not a valued position.

This is the most talent laden center draft in memory.

While two in the first round would be surprising, with the lack of quality at other positions, it wouldn't be stunning.

[Mecca]

This is the most talent laden center draft in memory.

While two in the first round would be surprising, with the lack of quality at other positions, it wouldn't be stunning.

Eh, I'm not sure I really agree with you on this. There is depth at numerous position the draft does lack alot of high end top 5 caliber guys but there is depth at alot of spots.

WR for example.

[Wilson8]

If 2 centers go in the 1st round I will be utterly stunned it's just not a valued position.

It would be good for the Chiefs if teams hold off on making that center draft pick. From what I have read and seen, this is the best year the NFL has seen for centers in the draft for a long time. The Chiefs have the need. Putting a GOOD young center between Waters and Goff has to improve the Chief's line.

[milkman]

Eh, I'm not sure I really agree with you on this. There is depth at numerous position the draft does lack alot of high end top 5 caliber guys but there is depth at alot of spots.

WR for example.

There is a lack of top end quality at other positions.

It's the reason that we have these stupid discussions about Curry at the top of the draft.

[DaneMcCloud]

Guys like Barry Richardson are who you take late round shots on, he started over 40 games in the ACC on a team that got significantly worse the year after he was gone...

Yeah, I don't have a problem at all with the Richardson selection in 2008. He's got the prototypical size, footwork and upper body strength that you look for in a right tackle.

It's up to him as to how his career pans out.

[Mecca]

There is a lack of top end quality at other positions.

It's the reason that we have these stupid discussions about Curry at the top of the draft.

I agree with you but alot of teams are going to value the 5th best WR over the 2nd best center.

[DaneMcCloud]

I agree with you but alot of teams are going to value the 5th best WR over the 2nd best center.

Well, maybe teams that have needs at WR but not a center.

If you need a center and don't need a WR, the value to that specific team is obviously different.

[Mecca]

Well, maybe teams that have needs at WR but not a center.

If you need a center and don't need a WR, the value to that specific team is obviously different.

Most teams always need WR's...considering the number of elite WR's isn't that high and it's become a hard position to find players at in a time when teams are running 3 and 4 wide alot.

[Jethopper]

Wrong.

Sorry buddy.

If you watched Barry Richardson play. then you would know his first back step is much like Damian Macintoshs. It is slow and lumbering, as opposed to the chop step that is required when lined up against a pass rushing end. Sure he can be effective in the run, as most RT prospects are, but I will again say Barry Richardson does not have the footwork to play in the NFL. Sorry to break it too you Richardson fans.

[Jethopper]

I agree with you but alot of teams are going to value the 5th best WR over the 2nd best center.

Especially after last years recievers class. :Lin:

[The Franchise]

Sorry buddy.

If you watched Barry Richardson play. then you would know his first back step is much like Damian Macintoshs. It is slow and lumbering, as opposed to the chop step that is required when lined up against a pass rushing end. Sure he can be effective in the run, as most RT prospects are, but I will again say Barry Richardson does not have the footwork to play in the NFL. Sorry to break it too you Richardson fans.

And you are?

[Jethopper]

And you are?


A former JUCO defensive end

[bdeg]

Sorry buddy.

If you watched Barry Richardson play. then you would know his first back step is much like Damian Macintoshs. It is slow and lumbering, as opposed to the chop step that is required when lined up against a pass rushing end. Sure he can be effective in the run, as most RT prospects are, but I will again say Barry Richardson does not have the footwork to play in the NFL. Sorry to break it too you Richardson fans.
And how hard is that to develop in a couple years, though?

[The Franchise]

A former JUCO defensive end

Wow....congrats. :rolleyes:

[Jethopper]

And how hard is that to develop in a couple years, though?

true. I guess I wouldn't know. These guys do have the best teachers around. I was just stating as of last year, Barry didn't have the step.

[Jethopper]

Wow....congrats. :rolleyes:

hehe, I know = (. I wasn't bragging I was just throwing my penny in the well.

[bdeg]

I don't think anyone here thinks he's really ready.

[DaneMcCloud]

I don't think anyone here thinks he's really ready.

Exactly.

[DaneMcCloud]

A former JUCO defensive end

Well, hell!

If I had known we were in the presence of greatness, I might have bothered to put on pants.

[TRR]

I'm not as ready to replace Niswanger as some are on here. For his first full season at Center, I thought he did a workman-like job. I think our O Line would benefit from keeping some consistency in it.

I don't buy into the Niswanger is too tall stuff either. You can either play or you can't...and I think Niswanger brings some tools to the table. I wouldn't mind seeing him develop a little bit before drafting his replacement after only 1 season as a full time starter.

[Jethopper]

Well, hell!

If I had known we were in the presence of greatness, I might have bothered to put on pants.

I knew typing that was a bad idea.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I'm not as ready to replace Niswanger as some are on here. For his first full season at Center, I thought he did a workman-like job. I think our O Line would benefit from keeping some consistency in it.

I don't buy into the Niswanger is too tall stuff either. You can either play or you can't...and I think Niswanger brings some tools to the table. I wouldn't mind seeing him develop a little bit before drafting his replacement after only 1 season as a full time starter.


If "workman-like" equates to the workman-like standards of those who designed the KC Hyatt Regency and the Tacoma Narrows Bridge, then yes, Rudy did a workman-like job at center

[milkman]

Sorry buddy.

If you watched Barry Richardson play. then you would know his first back step is much like Damian Macintoshs. It is slow and lumbering, as opposed to the chop step that is required when lined up against a pass rushing end. Sure he can be effective in the run, as most RT prospects are, but I will again say Barry Richardson does not have the footwork to play in the NFL. Sorry to break it too you Richardson fans.

What we have here is a failure to comunicate.

Yes, I know Richardson has to work on coming out of his stance and making that first step.

But he has, after that long lumbering first step, the natural quick feet that he needs to be a successful pass protector.

That first step is coachable.

[Jethopper]

Maybe a player coach like Goff is exactly what Niswanger needs...

[wild1]

Cassel's gonna get killed because they're not fixing the line.

doesn't matter, he sucks anyway

[milkman]

Niswanger's biggest problem is that he leaves his butt to high up when he's ready to snap, and that forces him to lunge out of his stance, effectively losing any leverage.

He also needs to work on his lower body strength.

Correct those things, and he might be servicable.

However, there are a number of good centers in this draft.

If we can grab one of those guys, and let Niswanger tutor under Goff at RG, he might be more than simply servicable there.

[Micjones]

I'm not as ready to replace Niswanger as some are on here. For his first full season at Center, I thought he did a workman-like job. I think our O Line would benefit from keeping some consistency in it.

I don't buy into the Niswanger is too tall stuff either. You can either play or you can't...and I think Niswanger brings some tools to the table. I wouldn't mind seeing him develop a little bit before drafting his replacement after only 1 season as a full time starter.

People are oversimplifying the problem with his being too tall.
It's about being able to get leverage. If I'm not mistaken one of the knocks on Niswanger coming into the NFL was that he's not a natural knee-bender.

[RINGLEADER]

Good move Pioli... :thumb:

[DaneMcCloud]

I knew typing that was a bad idea.

Ah, I'm just giving you crap. :p

Welcome, n00b!

[aturnis]

I think you can live with Niswanger at Center for another year.
Draft Eric Wood, Max Unger, or Alex Mack as your COTF so they'll be prepared to take over when the time comes. I'd also make an investment at Guard and Right Tackle.

I doubt seriously that Waters is going anywhere.
You have at least this season to find a Left Guard elsewhere.
Either in FA or next year's draft.

If the Chiefs were able to add Shaffer this would become a respectable Offensive Line real quick.

We currently have no answer at Right Tackle.

Herb Taylor is your LG, without a doubt could hold it down for years.

Any number of the Centers in this draft would start right away, no reason to give them a year to weather. It's the easiest Oline position to play. As long as their smart, they'll be fine.

[Jethopper]

People are oversimplifying the problem with his being too tall.
It's about being able to get leverage. If I'm not mistaken one of the knocks on Niswanger coming into the NFL was that he's not a natural knee-bender.

Carl Peterson's wife was a natural knee-bender.

[keg in kc]

Carl Peterson's wife was a natural knee-bender.So was your mom.

[milkman]

Carl Peterson's wife was a natural knee-bender.

So was Bob Gretz.

[Jethopper]

So was my dad.

[DaneMcCloud]

So was your mom.

From what I hear, so was your ex.


:p

[keg in kc]

From what I hear, so was your ex.That's probably because I told you.

Actually she wasn't much of a knee-bender. She was more of a wide receiver.

[Micjones]

Herb Taylor is your LG, without a doubt could hold it down for years.

Any number of the Centers in this draft would start right away, no reason to give them a year to weather. It's the easiest Oline position to play. As long as their smart, they'll be fine.

Is he strong enough at the point to be a Guard?