Football Moats stopped by cops while MIL dies at hospital [Archive]

Hydrae

03-26-2009, 09:40 AM

I was surprised not to find this posted already. It is all the talk on the radio down here. If this is a repost, sorry.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4017382

Updated: March 26, 2009, 11:26 AM ET
Officer delayed Moats as relative diedComment Email Print Share ESPN.com news services
PLANO, Texas -- A Dallas police officer who delayed Houston Texans' running back Ryan Moats from visiting his mother-in-law before she died in a Plano hospital has been reassigned to dispatch pending an investigation.

Moats, his wife and other family members rushed from their suburban Dallas home to Baylor Regional Medical Center at Plano during the early hours of March 18 after getting word around midnight that Moats' mother-in-law, Jonetta Collinsworth, was dying. She had breast cancer.

Moats

According to Dallas-area media reports, Moats' vehicle, which rolled through a red light, was stopped by Officer Robert Powell in the hospital's parking lot.

Powell kept Moats and another family member for 13 minutes, threatening Moats with arrest and lecturing him. By the time Moats was released and entered the hospital, Jonetta Collinsworth had died.

Dallas police have dropped the ticket.

The Moatses, who are black, said Wednesday that they can't help but think that race may have played a role in how Powell, who is white, treated them.

"I think he should lose his job," said Ryan Moats, a Dallas native, according to the Dallas Morning News.

Dallas-Fort Worth television station WFAA-TV also obtained dashboard video from inside Powell's cruiser, detailing the exchange in which Powell threatened Moats with arrest.

When the car was pulled over, Moats' wife, Tamishia Moats, and her great aunt got out of the car to get into the hospital.

"Get in there!" Powell said, according to the Dallas Morning News' account of the footage. "Let me see your hands!"

"My mom is dying," Tamishia Moats replied. She and her great aunt ignored the officer and headed into the hospital, while Ryan Moats and another family member stayed behind, according to the report.

"I waited until no traffic was coming," Moats told Powell, explaining why he had rolled through the red light. "I got seconds before she's gone, man," he said, the newspaper reported.

Powell demanded his license, which Moats produced, and proof of insurance, which Moats could not find. "Just give me a ticket or whatever," Moats said, his frustration beginning to show, according to the report.

"Shut your mouth," Powell told him, the newspaper reported. "You can cooperate and settle down, or I can just take you to jail for running a red light."

In another exchange reported by the Morning News, Moats again asked the officer to complete the traffic stop quickly.

"If you're going to give me a ticket, give me a ticket," Moats said.

"Your attitude says that you need one," Powell replied.

"All I'm asking you is just to hurry up," Moats added.

"If you want to keep this going, I'll just put you in handcuffs," the officer said, "and I'll take you to jail for running a red light."

Powell continued on, making several more points, and Moats replied "Yes sir" to each.

"Understand what I can do," Powell said, according to the report. "I can tow your truck. I can charge you with fleeing. I can make your night very difficult."

"I understand," Moats responded. "I hope you'll be a great person and not do that."

Hospital security guards then arrived and told Powell that the Moatses' relative really was upstairs dying, the newspaper reported. But Powell spent several minutes inside his squad car, checking Moats for outstanding warrants. He found none.

Another hospital staff member emerged from the hospital and spoke with a Plano police officer who had arrived on the scene. "Hey, that's the nurse," the Plano officer told Powell, according to the Morning News. "She said that the mom's dying right now, and she's wanting to know if they can get him up there before she dies."

"All right," Powell replied, according to the report. "I'm almost done."

As Moats signed the ticket, Powell made another point.

"Attitude's everything," he said, the newspaper reported. "All you had to do is stop, tell me what was going on. More than likely, I would have let you go."

Powell, hired in January 2006, did not return a call for comment, the newspaper reported. But Dallas Assistant Chief Floyd Simpson said Powell told police officials that he believed that he was doing his job.

"When people are in distress, we should come to the rescue," Simpson said, according to the report. "We shouldn't further their distress."

Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.

Brock

03-26-2009, 09:41 AM

Great job, officer.

Katipan

03-26-2009, 09:44 AM

bdeg

03-26-2009, 09:46 AM

jackass , most likely a racist too

I'd be beyond pissed

Chief Pote

03-26-2009, 09:48 AM

That's why some are called pigs.

bdeg

03-26-2009, 09:48 AM

It totally sucks, but people lie to cops all the time. He didn't have to be a dick but I'm sure he's used to dealing with dicks all the time.

Reason #276 why I'm not a cop or a nurse.
Reason #277 being I'd be dirty.

It doesn't take 13 minutes to run a plate

He could've walked in to see him ask the receptionist where his mom was.

He already let 2 people leave the car.

Ultra Peanut

03-26-2009, 09:49 AM

Traffic cops are douchebags, part six million (http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/mar/21/traffic-stop-cut-life-short-man-says/).

Katipan

03-26-2009, 09:50 AM

It doesn't take 13 minutes to run a plate

He could've walked in to see him ask the receptionist where his mom was.

He already let 2 people leave the car.

...

I agree?

Dude could also have waited for the green light.

bdeg

03-26-2009, 09:52 AM

Just meant that if he was holding him because he thought he was lying, he should've just walked in with him.

alpha_omega

03-26-2009, 09:52 AM

Tough one....i can sympathize with both sides of this story.

CoMoChief

03-26-2009, 09:52 AM

**** that PoS cop. The whole "understand what I can do" comment needs to get his ass fired. You don't threaten people with the power of the badge. Thats incredibly unprofessional.

But if my mom was dying, I woulda said **** it and I would have fleed into the hospital and told the cop to **** off and I would have dealt with it later. Take me to jail, fine whatever, in this situation something like that would have gotten thrown out of court for running a red light anyways. His ****in mom was dying.

I hope that cop burns in hell.

CoMoChief

03-26-2009, 09:53 AM

...

I agree?

Dude could also have waited for the green light.

Fuck that man, a good officer would have escorted you to the damn hospital.

Katipan

03-26-2009, 09:54 AM

Moats didn't have his insurance with him and he had an attitude.

Cops have never been nice to me under those circumstances.

Katipan

03-26-2009, 09:54 AM

**** that man, a good officer would have escorted you to the damn hospital.

I agree!

Ultra Peanut

03-26-2009, 09:55 AM

Cops are pretty much isolated from normal society to the point where they feel that every "civilian" must be viewed as potentially dishonest and/or dangerous. It's an awesomely fucked up situation.

DeezNutz

03-26-2009, 09:55 AM

...
Dude could also have waited for the green light.

:eek:

Never ever rush me to the hospital if I'm dying!

morphius

03-26-2009, 09:56 AM

Reason #277 being I'd be dirty.

I don't think I'm going out on a limb when I say that you have already achieved #277. Not that its a bad thing, I'm just saying...

Katipan

03-26-2009, 09:56 AM

:eek:

Never ever rush me to the hospital if I'm dying!

I wouldn't have stopped in the driveway. I would have at least pulled into the emergency room lane for you.

Brock

03-26-2009, 09:57 AM

Tough one....i can sympathize with both sides of this story.

The cop acted like a prick just because he could. What is sympathetic about that?

bdeg

03-26-2009, 09:58 AM

Moats didn't have his insurance with him and he had an attitude.

Cops have never been nice to me under those circumstances.

"My mom is dying," Tamishia Moats replied. She and her great aunt ignored the officer and headed into the hospital, while Ryan Moats and another family member stayed behind, according to the report.

"I waited until no traffic was coming," Moats told Powell, explaining why he had rolled through the red light. "I got seconds before she's gone, man," he said, the newspaper reported.

That's a bad attitude?

Katipan

03-26-2009, 09:58 AM

Cops are pretty much isolated from normal society to the point where they feel that every "civilian" must be viewed as potentially dishonest and/or dangerous. It's an awesomely ****ed up situation.

And Cop suicide stats are ridiculous.

bdeg

03-26-2009, 10:00 AM

Skip Towne

03-26-2009, 10:01 AM

The police are your friends.

DeezNutz

03-26-2009, 10:01 AM

I wouldn't have stopped in the driveway. I would have at least pulled into the emergency room lane for you.

Well, in that case...

Katipan

03-26-2009, 10:01 AM

"My mom is dying," Tamishia Moats replied. She and her great aunt ignored the officer and headed into the hospital, while Ryan Moats and another family member stayed behind, according to the report.

"I waited until no traffic was coming," Moats told Powell, explaining why he had rolled through the red light. "I got seconds before she's gone, man," he said, the newspaper reported.

That's a bad attitude?

I really don't want to play with you on this subject. I don't care enough about it. But there are other quotes in the conversation.

Powell demanded his license, which Moats produced, and proof of insurance, which Moats could not find. "Just give me a ticket or whatever," Moats said, his frustration beginning to show, according to the report.

"Shut your mouth," Powell told him, the newspaper reported. "You can cooperate and settle down, or I can just take you to jail for running a red light."

In another exchange reported by the Morning News, Moats again asked the officer to complete the traffic stop quickly.

"If you're going to give me a ticket, give me a ticket," Moats said.

"Your attitude says that you need one," Powell replied.

"All I'm asking you is just to hurry up," Moats added.

The people just leaving the vehicle pissed off and scared the cop.
The cop being scared made him pissed at the dude.
The pissed off dude not having his pissed off stuff just pissed all over the situation.
The hurry up attitude? I don't know where your cops come from but that crap just makes them move slower.

So yes. He had attitude. Everyone had attitude. And I bet if you were dying your family would have attitude too.

Buck

03-26-2009, 10:01 AM

What a dick.

There are good cops, and bad cops. He's a bad one.

He reminds me of that dick cop from the Wire.

DeezNutz

03-26-2009, 10:03 AM

Dartgod

03-26-2009, 10:04 AM

As Moats signed the ticket, Powell made another point.

"Attitude's everything," he said, the newspaper reported. "All you had to do is stop, tell me what was going on. More than likely, I would have let you go."
Sounds to me that's exactly what he did.

Katipan

03-26-2009, 10:06 AM

Cops have tough jobs. Wouldn't want to be one.

That said, context should have been his friend. The "suspects" were pulling up to a hospital for crying out loud.

The situation doesn't scream "danger"; it screams "emergency."

No way to tell from the story if the cop could tell that he ran the red light for the hospital. The story just says thats where they pulled into. Cop could have just assumed that was the safest place to pull over.

Buck

03-26-2009, 10:10 AM

Good Cop
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/thewire/images/thumb/e/e2/Bunny.jpg/250px-Bunny.jpg

Bad Cop
*Tries to find picture of Eddie Walker*

Bwana

03-26-2009, 10:12 AM

I sounds like the cop was on a power trip. Once he went into his "little Rambo want to be" song and dance, he wasn't going to stop until he was damn good and ready.

Time's Yours

03-26-2009, 10:12 AM

No way to tell from the story if the cop could tell that he ran the red light for the hospital. The story just says thats where they pulled into. Cop could have just assumed that was the safest place to pull over.

And then it was 30 seconds until the cop found out exactly why they went to the hospital.

What's your defense for the cop saying "I can arrest you for fleeing."?

The sad thing is the cop could've done that and probably would have won the "he said/he said" that ensued.

DeezNutz

03-26-2009, 10:13 AM

No way to tell from the story if the cop could tell that he ran the red light for the hospital. The story just says thats where they pulled into. Cop could have just assumed that was the safest place to pull over.

Yeah, maybe.

But if the wife and mom got out and headed into the hospital, it sounds like he pulled up pretty close to the door. Possibly close to the emergency entrance?

At the very least, it doesn't sound like he just barely rolled into the parking lot and pulled over. Doubt he had the two women make a long hike.

Katipan

03-26-2009, 10:14 AM

And then it was 30 seconds until the cop found out exactly why they went to the hospital.

What's your defense for the cop saying "I can arrest you for fleeing."?

The sad thing is the cop could've done that and probably would have won the "he said/he said" that ensued.

You wanna guess how many times a cop pulls someone over and people in the back take off running?

I can't even make an educated guess.

doomy3

03-26-2009, 10:15 AM

Fucking ridiculous.

DeezNutz

03-26-2009, 10:16 AM

You wanna guess how many times a cop pulls someone over and people in the back take off running?

I can't even make an educated guess.

Lots, I'm sure.

But it's probably more rare when said fleeing suspect is an aging woman who apparently had full-blown cancer. It should have been pretty clear what was happening when the women got out of the car, I'd think.

Katipan

03-26-2009, 10:17 AM

She probably had that really great cancer weed.

CoMoChief

03-26-2009, 10:17 AM

I really don't want to play with you on this subject. I don't care enough about it. But there are other quotes in the conversation.

The people just leaving the vehicle pissed off and scared the cop.
The cop being scared made him pissed at the dude.
The pissed off dude not having his pissed off stuff just pissed all over the situation.
The hurry up attitude? I don't know where your cops come from but that crap just makes them move slower.

So yes. He had attitude. Everyone had attitude. And I bet if you were dying your family would have attitude too.

#1 issue here: His mom's fucking dying and the cop is not accepting the fact. Christ the whole fuckin family is in the car!!!

Sorry but that would piss anyone off. Like I said before I would said fuck the cop and would have gone to the damn hospital. Officers know what the fuck an emergency is and sometimes laws can be bent in some situations.

This is nothing more than a "DWB" issue. Driving while Black. I can almost guarantee you that had he been white the officer would have let him go to the hospital.

DeezNutz

03-26-2009, 10:17 AM

She probably had that really great cancer weed.

ROFL

Thig Lyfe

03-26-2009, 10:18 AM

That is FUCKED. UP.

They were in the goddamn hospital parking lot for fuck's sake. That officer should be shot in the back of the head.

Katipan

03-26-2009, 10:19 AM

#1 issue here: His mom's ****ing dying and the cop is not accepting the fact. Christ the whole ****in family is in the car!!!

He accepted it when the nurse came and told the other cop who came and told him. So he didn't buy the story of the people in the car. I don't think they buy any story of anyone they pull over.

ChiTown

03-26-2009, 10:20 AM

. That officer should be shot in the back of the head.

:shake:

Thig Lyfe

03-26-2009, 10:26 AM

He accepted it when the nurse came and told the other cop who came and told him. So he didn't buy the story of the people in the car. I don't think they buy any story of anyone they pull over.

Um, how about when you're in the PARKING LOT OF THE FUCKING HOSPITAL WITH YOUR ENTIRE FAMILY. Did Officer Powell really think that Moats said "Hey fam, could you come with me on this ride to the hospital? I want to run a red light and need an air-tight alibi."

Give me a fucking break.

Thig Lyfe

03-26-2009, 10:27 AM

:shake:

Twice.

DaFace

03-26-2009, 10:27 AM

So...was she dead by the time they got up there? I can't tell from the article. If so, that's pretty fucked up. If not, then it's probably not that big of a deal.

ChiTown

03-26-2009, 10:29 AM

Twice.

and then kill his wife and kids! YEAH!

Thig Lyfe

03-26-2009, 10:31 AM

and then kill his wife and kids! YEAH!
You don't know he has a wife and kids.

And if he does, they're probably racist, too.

PhillyChiefFan

03-26-2009, 10:31 AM

they should fire his ass for that.

He DID explain what was happening and he STILL kept him waiting there.

Should have escorted him, then he could have made it AND the cop would have had his proof.

DJ's left nut

03-26-2009, 10:31 AM

That officer should be shot in the back of the head.

Well, you're certainly a moron.

And to correct what seems to be a common misperception from the reading impaired in this thread, it was his mother-in-law, not mother.

To the general audience --

Be a cop for a week. Hell, involve yourself in any sort of law enforcement for a week, even at the judicial level.

These people are lied to, abused and otherwise haranged more than anyone in the country. They're guarded because experience has taught them that it's generally the correct response. So it turns out Moats and his wife were telling the truth this time, but the other 8 of 10 times it was just another bullshit story.

Moats got caught up in an unfortunate numbers game. The raw numbers suggest that this cop was probably being lied to. Combine it with the fact that there were people in the car disregarding the cop. Combine it with the fact that it does appear that Moats had a bit of an attitude and likely continued to drive a bit after the cop flashed the lights (if they were close enough to walk to the hospital and have nurses come out to the scene). Then just insert pure human fallability; the cop was rattled.

Up to the point that the nurses came out and told the cop that the mother-in-law was inside and he still didn't do anything to facilitate a quick resolution, I think the cops conduct was unfortunate, but not inappropriate. Once he had independant verification of the circumstances surrounding the incident, I think he should've gone ahead and let Moats go, his presence was likely not needed for a mere warrant search.

It's an extremely hard job, likely the hardest out there. It never ceases to amaze me how many folks are ready to tie up a noose for police officers without even considering the day to day responsibilities, realities and practicalities that these people face.

Thig Lyfe

03-26-2009, 10:32 AM

So...was she dead by the time they got up there? I can't tell from the article. If so, that's pretty fucked up. If not, then it's probably not that big of a deal.

You can't tell? It kind of explicitly states that Moats' mom was alive while they were on their way and dead after Officer Powell went on his power trip.

It's pretty fucked up.

DeezNutz

03-26-2009, 10:34 AM

And to correct what seems to be a common misperception from the reading impaired in this thread, it was his mother-in-law, not mother.

I mentioned "mom" in a general sense, so I'm assuming you're not alluding to me. Because, as you're well aware I'm sure, a MIL is still a "mom."

I don't claim mine, but still...

Time's Yours

03-26-2009, 10:34 AM

You wanna guess how many times a cop pulls someone over and people in the back take off running?

I can't even make an educated guess.

That's completely irrelevant. The cop threatened THE DRIVER OF THE CAR WHO PULLED OVER AND WAS STANDING STILL with a FALSE fleeing charge because he was on a power trip. That is indefensible, but I know it happens all the time.

DaFace

03-26-2009, 10:35 AM

You can't tell? It kind of explicitly states that Moats' mom was alive while they were on their way and dead after Officer Powell went on his power trip.

It's pretty fucked up.

Ah, missed it when I skimmed the article. Not that the fact makes a big difference in whether his actions were justified or not, but it makes a difference in the end-result of the situation.

Still, I do have to wonder how often cops get excuses like that. It's a tough deal either way. He should have at least escorted them to the hospital and given them an obstruction of justice ticket or something if they were lying.

ChiTown

03-26-2009, 10:35 AM

You don't know he has a wife and kids.

And if he does, they're probably racist, too.

"F it. His wife and kids, or any cop and his wife and kids. KILL EM ALL WITH A BULLET (OR 2) TO THE BACK OF THE HEAD !!!!!!!!111111111111!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111"

/over-reactionary CP poster

Thig Lyfe

03-26-2009, 10:36 AM

Moats got caught up in an unfortunate numbers game. The raw numbers suggest that this cop was probably being lied to. Combine it with the fact that there were people in the car disregarding the cop. Combine it with the fact that it does appear that Moats had a bit of an attitude and likely continued to drive a bit after the cop flashed the lights (if they were close enough to walk to the hospital and have nurses come out to the scene). Then just insert pure human fallability; the cop was rattled.

Fuck this! He was there with his whole family. At a hospital. The people who disregarded the cop were disregarding him to GET IN THE FUCKING HOSPITAL, not run away. If the officer weren't on a fucking power trip, if he could get his head out of his ass for one minute, he'd realize that he should have the good faith to allow these people to get into the hospital building. I think you'd have an attitude too if some dick cop were keeping you from your dying mother.

WAH WAH COPS HAVE IT SO HARD WAH WAHHHHH. Fuck that. This guy was on a power trip at best and racist at worst. He should have assessed the situation, not assumed that this car full of stressed out relatives were another gang of law-defying criminals.

Thig Lyfe

03-26-2009, 10:37 AM

"F it. His wife and kids, or any cop and his wife and kids. KILL EM ALL WITH A BULLET (OR 2) TO THE BACK OF THE HEAD !!!!!!!!111111111111!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111"

/over-reactionary CP poster

You're over-reacting to my obvious hyperbole, dude.

Brock

03-26-2009, 10:37 AM

Hospital security guards then arrived and told Powell that the Moatses' relative really was upstairs dying, the newspaper reported. But Powell spent several minutes inside his squad car, checking Moats for outstanding warrants. He found none.

Another hospital staff member emerged from the hospital and spoke with a Plano police officer who had arrived on the scene. "Hey, that's the nurse," the Plano officer told Powell, according to the Morning News. "She said that the mom's dying right now, and she's wanting to know if they can get him up there before she dies."

"All right," Powell replied, according to the report. "I'm almost done."

I don't care how hard his job is, this guy is a straight up dick and doesn't belong in any job that requires him to come into contact with people.

DeezNutz

03-26-2009, 10:38 AM

http://cdn-channels.netscape.com/gallery/i/h/halloween03_celeb/lg1.jpg

CoMoChief

03-26-2009, 10:38 AM

:shake:

actually it should be more like :clap:

DJ's left nut

03-26-2009, 10:39 AM

**** this! He was there with his whole family. At a hospital. The people who disregarded the cop were disregarding him to GET IN THE ****ING HOSPITAL, not run away. If the officer weren't on a ****ing power trip, if he could get his head out of his ass for one minute, he'd realize that he should have the good faith to allow these people to get into the hospital building. I think you'd have an attitude too if some dick cop were keeping you from your dying mother.

WAH WAH COPS HAVE IT SO HARD WAH WAHHHHH. **** that. This guy was on a power trip at best and racist at worst. He should have assessed the situation, not assumed that this car full of stressed out relatives were another gang of law-defying criminals.

Certainly a reasoned response.

Time's Yours

03-26-2009, 10:39 AM

Moats got caught up in an unfortunate numbers game. The raw numbers suggest that this cop was probably being lied to. Combine it with the fact that there were people in the car disregarding the cop. Combine it with the fact that it does appear that Moats had a bit of an attitude and likely continued to drive a bit after the cop flashed the lights (if they were close enough to walk to the hospital and have nurses come out to the scene). Then just insert pure human fallability; the cop was rattled.

Up to the point that the nurses came out and told the cop that the mother-in-law was inside and he still didn't do anything to facilitate a quick resolution, I think the cops conduct was unfortunate, but not inappropriate.

Really? Who cares if the story was a lie. How did that give the cop the right to hold him for 15 minutes and threaten false charges? At worst, it was a made-up story as an excuse for running the red light.

If you don't believe the driver had a valid excuse, write the damn red light ticket and move on. There was no reason to start arguing and power-tripping. The cop wasted a lot of time bickering for no reason.

Write the goddamn ticket and let the driver hash it out in court if he has a good story.

Thig Lyfe

03-26-2009, 10:40 AM

I don't care how hard his job is, this guy is a straight up dick and doesn't belong in any job that requires him to come into contact with people.

This.

ChiTown

03-26-2009, 10:41 AM

Certainly a reasoned response.

ROFL

agreed

ChiTown

03-26-2009, 10:41 AM

I don't care how hard his job is, this guy is a straight up dick and doesn't belong in any job that requires him to come into contact with people.

Completely agree with that.

Frazod

03-26-2009, 10:41 AM

Fuck this! He was there with his whole family. At a hospital. The people who disregarded the cop were disregarding him to GET IN THE FUCKING HOSPITAL, not run away. If the officer weren't on a fucking power trip, if he could get his head out of his ass for one minute, he'd realize that he should have the good faith to allow these people to get into the hospital building. I think you'd have an attitude too if some dick cop were keeping you from your dying mother.

WAH WAH COPS HAVE IT SO HARD WAH WAHHHHH. Fuck that. This guy was on a power trip at best and racist at worst. He should have assessed the situation, not assumed that this car full of stressed out relatives were another gang of law-defying criminals.

Sadly, this is the way I see it. Seems like for every cop out there that is a decent person there are four or five power mad pricks who delight in tormenting common citizens in much the same way miscreant little kids enjoy pulling the wings off of flies. And it's only getting worse as their power increases and our personal liberties errode.

And if this guy wasn't a professional athelete, this would have gotten ZERO publicity. Just another day at the office for Roscoe P. Coltraine.

Thig Lyfe

03-26-2009, 10:41 AM

Certainly a reasoned response.

Are you implying that it isn't? Because if you can't see how it makes perfect sense, you're as big a dick as the cop.

DJ's left nut

03-26-2009, 10:42 AM

I don't care how hard his job is, this guy is a straight up dick and doesn't belong in any job that requires him to come into contact with people.

And like I said, his conduct up to that point was not inappropriate. From the point he was informed of the situation by hospital staff, his behavior was no longer acceptable.

Would I fire him for it? Based on this alone? No, we all make mistakes and I don't know this officer's record or past performance. However, it's definitely a black mark on is resume. If he also has a questionable history, I would have no problem using this as a tipping point and firing him based on a pattern of inappropriate conduct.

DeezNutz

03-26-2009, 10:42 AM

We just need to be reflective: What would Pioli have done in this same situation?

Because this should be our moral and intellectual compass, unquestionably.

DJ's left nut

03-26-2009, 10:42 AM

Are you implying that it isn't? Because if you can't see how it makes perfect sense, you're as big a dick as the cop.

I'm implying that I can actually see the spittle on your keyboard as I read it.

Katipan

03-26-2009, 10:44 AM

These people are lied to, abused and otherwise haranged more than anyone in the country. They're guarded because experience has taught them that it's generally the correct response. So it turns out Moats and his wife were telling the truth this time, but the other 8 of 10 times it was just another bullshit story.

Moats got caught up in an unfortunate numbers game. The raw numbers suggest that this cop was probably being lied to. Combine it with the fact that there were people in the car disregarding the cop. Combine it with the fact that it does appear that Moats had a bit of an attitude and likely continued to drive a bit after the cop flashed the lights (if they were close enough to walk to the hospital and have nurses come out to the scene). Then just insert pure human fallability; the cop was rattled.

Up to the point that the nurses came out and told the cop that the mother-in-law was inside and he still didn't do anything to facilitate a quick resolution, I think the cops conduct was unfortunate, but not inappropriate. Once he had independant verification of the circumstances surrounding the incident, I think he should've gone ahead and let Moats go, his presence was likely not needed for a mere warrant search.

It's an extremely hard job, likely the hardest out there. It never ceases to amaze me how many folks are ready to tie up a noose for police officers without even considering the day to day responsibilities, realities and practicalities that these people face.

Your post just made my posts look stupid.

Thig Lyfe

03-26-2009, 10:46 AM

I'm implying that I can actually see the spittle on your keyboard as I read it.

Because I cussed and used some all-caps here and there? That invalidates the argument that the cop should have actually assessed the situation rather than assume bad faith?

Alright.

DJ's left nut

03-26-2009, 10:47 AM

Really? Who cares if the story was a lie. How did that give the cop the right to hold him for 15 minutes and threaten false charges? At worst, it was a made-up story as an excuse for running the red light.

If you don't believe the driver had a valid excuse, write the damn red light ticket and move on. There was no reason to start arguing and power-tripping. The cop wasted a lot of time bickering for no reason.

Write the goddamn ticket and let the driver hash it out in court if he has a good story.

Have you ever received a ticket that didn't take 15 minutes? I haven't.

And we're getting secondhand reports here. Very likely the officer told him that if he didn't settle down and wait for the ticket, he'd get the fleeing charge. In other words, he was saying that if he pulls the stunt his wife just did, he's getting tagged for fleeing, I've got no problem with that. Again, because it all came prior to independant verfication.

DeezNutz

03-26-2009, 10:47 AM

Thig Lyfe

03-26-2009, 10:48 AM

Is your avi in earnest?

Are 90% of your posts?

The answer is the same for both.

Thig Lyfe

03-26-2009, 10:49 AM

Have you ever received a ticket that didn't take 15 minutes? I haven't.

And we're getting secondhand reports here. Very likely the officer told him that if he didn't settle down and wait for the ticket, he'd get the fleeing charge. In other words, he was saying that if he pulls the stunt his wife just did, he's getting tagged for fleeing, I've got no problem with that. Again, because it all came prior to independant verfication.

You mean the stunt of walking into the hospital so she can see Moats' mom before she dies? That stunt?

DeezNutz

03-26-2009, 10:50 AM

Are 90% of your posts?

The answer is the same for both.

Very good.

Katipan

03-26-2009, 10:50 AM

You mean the stunt of walking into the hospital so she can see Moats' mom before she dies? That stunt?

Is that the same stunt where she ignored the officers command and just said fuck the law?

DJ's left nut

03-26-2009, 10:50 AM

Because I cussed and used some all-caps here and there? That invalidates the argument that the cop should have actually assessed the situation rather than assume bad faith?

Alright.

Again, you're basing this on secondhand knowledge. Knowing nothing about this officer or his past, we are ill-prepared to pass judgment here. This could be some guy that's been on the force 20 years with a strong record. If so, isn't it fair to conclude that in fact Moats was being a dick? Even a pretty biased reporting of it offers 'his frustration started to show'.

Car ran a red light, likely kept driving. Passengers ignored the officer and left on foot, driver was evidently driving illegally (no proof of insurance) and began to get beliggerent when the stop took longer than he thought it ought to. From where I sit, the officer had every reason to cast a suspicious eye on Moats and his story, up until the point hospital staff confirmed it.

DJ's left nut

03-26-2009, 10:52 AM

You mean the stunt of walking into the hospital so she can see Moats' mom before she dies? That stunt?

Oh for fucks sake, I've already tried to correct you on this once.

It was her mom. It makes her actions understandable for her, but again, the officer has no way of knowing that.

You can't even figure out who died in this thing and I'm supposed to assume you've put a lot of reasoned analysis into who may be in the wrong here?

Sure.

DeezNutz

03-26-2009, 10:52 AM

Is that the same stunt where she ignored the officers command and just said **** the law?

"My mom is dying." = "Fuck the law."?

Brock

03-26-2009, 10:53 AM

Is that the same stunt where she ignored the officers command and just said **** the law?

Sometimes the situation trumps the dummy with a gun.

Thig Lyfe

03-26-2009, 10:53 AM

Is that the same stunt where she ignored the officers command and just said fuck the law?

You wouldn't keep walking to see a loved one before she died? Really?

You think as she was walking into the hospital (again, to SEE A LOVED ONE BEFORE SHE DIED), she was cackling and raising two middle fingers into the air, saying "Fuck da po-lice"? Really? Really?

I can't believe people are defending the cop here.

Thig Lyfe

03-26-2009, 10:55 AM

"My mom is dying." = "Fuck the law."?

Yeah man. You have to obey cops NO MATTER WHAT. Because THEY ARE THE FINAL AUTHORITY.

BOW DOWN TO THE POLICE! THEY HAVE DIFFICULT JOBS AND THEREFORE MUST BE OBEYED REGARDLESS OF THE SITUATION!

DeezNutz

03-26-2009, 10:55 AM

Car ran a red light, likely kept driving. Passengers ignored the officer and left on foot, driver was evidently driving illegally (no proof of insurance) and began to get beliggerent when the stop took longer than he thought it ought to. From where I sit, the officer had every reason to cast a suspicious eye on Moats and his story, up until the point hospital staff confirmed it.

I need more information.

If he stopped, literally, in front of the emergency room door, that cop has to use some common sense, especially considering who hopped out of the car.

DJ's left nut

03-26-2009, 10:56 AM

"My mom is dying." = "**** the law."?

But again, try to see the officer's POV.

He has no way to know this. Further, he has no way to know that we're talking mere minutes even if he does believe her. In his eyes it's likely not unreasonable for him to expect her to wait 10 minutes while this gets sorted out.

From his perspective, he likely has 1 of 2 things. A) A liar or B) Someone that's being a little overly dramatic about things.

Thig Lyfe

03-26-2009, 10:57 AM

Oh for fucks sake, I've already tried to correct you on this once.

It was her mom. It makes her actions understandable for her, but again, the officer has no way of knowing that.

You can't even figure out who died in this thing and I'm supposed to assume you've put a lot of reasoned analysis into who may be in the wrong here?

Sure.

Oh my god, I forgot it was his mother-in-law. Therefore everything I said is invalid. You're right.

My point is, fuckwad, that he could see her walking INTO THE HOSPITAL. I think an officer who isn't blinded by his own power could figure out at that point that the story is probably valid.

DeezNutz

03-26-2009, 11:00 AM

But again, try to see the officer's POV.

He has no way to know this. Further, he has no way to know that we're talking mere minutes even if he does believe her. In his eyes it's likely not unreasonable for him to expect her to wait 10 minutes while this gets sorted out.

From his perspective, he likely has 1 of 2 things. A) A liar or B) Someone that's being a little overly dramatic about things.

No, I agree with what you're saying to a point. The officer has been trained to be skeptical and to realize that he's likely going to get a load of bullshit.

But these aren't 20-something men. The story doesn't list ages, but if he sees a frail 60-something woman get out, common sense needs to be the guide. There's probably a legit concern.

The officer could have accompanied Moats into the hospital, for example. Special circumstances necessitate different procedures.

Thig Lyfe

03-26-2009, 11:00 AM

But again, try to see the officer's POV.

He has no way to know this. Further, he has no way to know that we're talking mere minutes even if he does believe her. In his eyes it's likely not unreasonable for him to expect her to wait 10 minutes while this gets sorted out.

From his perspective, he likely has 1 of 2 things. A) A liar or B) Someone that's being a little overly dramatic about things.

You're saying he has to assume bad faith. That's bullshit. These folks were probably visibly stressed. I mean, he pulled them over in the hospital parking lot. Not on the street several blocks away. They were obviously at the hospital for a reason.

He should have just given Moats a ticket and let them go, even if it was a lie (which it should have been obvious that it wasn't). There's no reason to defend the cop just because he has a hard job. That doesn't forgive his apparent inability to assess the situation.

DJ's left nut

03-26-2009, 11:00 AM

Oh my god, I forgot it was his mother-in-law. Therefore everything I said is invalid. You're right.

My point is, ****wad, that he could see her walking INTO THE HOSPITAL. I think an officer who isn't blinded by his own power could figure out at that point that the story is probably valid.

Cool.

Next time I'm getting a ticket near a hospital, I'm having my wife hop out, ignore an officer's order while I'm badgering said officer, and walk into the hospital. He'll certainly believe me then. How does her walking into a public hospital lend any validity to her story in real-time?

Her conduct means nothing, absolutely nothing.

ChiTown

03-26-2009, 11:00 AM

Thig Lyfe

03-26-2009, 11:01 AM

Brock

03-26-2009, 11:02 AM

DJ's left nut

03-26-2009, 11:02 AM

You're saying he has to assume bad faith. That's bullshit. These folks were probably visibly stressed. I mean, he pulled them over in the hospital parking lot. Not on the street several blocks away. They were obviously at the hospital for a reason.

He should have just given Moats a ticket and let them go, even if it was a lie (which it should have been obvious that it wasn't). There's no reason to defend the cop just because he has a hard job. That doesn't forgive his apparent inability to assess the situation.

It seems that merely giving Moats the ticket was exactly what he was trying to do. But ultimately Moats didn't have his POI, wasn't being fully cooperative and his wife just blew the officer off and went inside. That's going to escalate things.

DeezNutz

03-26-2009, 11:02 AM

Thig Lyfe

03-26-2009, 11:05 AM

Cool.

Next time I'm getting a ticket near a hospital, I'm having my wife hop out, ignore an officer's order while I'm badgering said officer, and walk into the hospital. He'll certainly believe me then. How does her walking into a public hospital lend any validity to her story in real-time?

Her conduct means nothing, absolutely nothing.

Hahaha badgering? You think Moats was badgering him?

Jesus fuck, your blind allegiance to the police force is incredible. Moats' MIL was dying. All he did was ask that the cop quickly give him a ticket so he could go inside. He didn't resist. He didn't try to say he didn't do anything wrong. He didn't call the cop names or talk back. He said "yes sir." The cop was getting off on his power.

And it wasn't near a hospital. It was at the hospital.

Again, common fucking sense. If it were a bunch of laughing teenagers, or stoned college kids, and they tried the hospital thing it might not be a validation of his story. But when you have a two grown women, one of them probably a senior, both of them probably crying like hell because a loved one is dying walk into a hospital, you can use common sense and assume that the story is probably valid.

Common sense.

crazycoffey

03-26-2009, 11:05 AM

It doesn't take 13 minutes to run a plate

He could've walked in to see him ask the receptionist where his mom was.

He already let 2 people leave the car.

everyone knows the side of this arguement I usually stand on, but I can't side with this guy, from the accounts of the stop in the paper.

But to explain one thing about this situation, so as you all know. The two that left the car hadn't done anything wrong, and the officer had no probable cause to legally think they had. This was a big scenerio in training situations. Stopping a car for speeding and the passenger just got out and started walking away. There is no law that says you have to stay in the car during a traffic stop. NOW-if you run away, it looks bad and changes the actions, as do some other actions. And of course the reason for stop can change this too. Just in the case of most traffic violations, it's all on the driver alone.

Now in this case, he rolled through a red light, there wasn't much other traffic around, according to the paper, and the cop stopped him in the hospital parking lot. I don't see how the cop doesn't say, "ok, lets go see if you're telling the truth" and walk in the hospital with them. If he was lying you throw the book at him for wasting your time, if he's not, you say piece out, sorry for your loss.

This guy is a prime example of the bad apples making the bunch look bad.

DJ's left nut

03-26-2009, 11:06 AM

No, I agree with what you're saying to a point. The officer has been trained to be skeptical and to realize that he's likely going to get a load of bullshit.

But these aren't 20-something men. The story doesn't list ages, but if he sees a frail 60-something woman get out, common sense needs to be the guide. There's probably a legit concern.

The officer could have accompanied Moats into the hospital, for example. Special circumstances necessitate different procedures.

I'm roughly Moats age, my Aunts are in their late 40s. They don't look much different than a few of my wife's friends who are in their early 30s. Let's not go assuming frail old ladies just because one was an aunt.

And again, I'm not saying the officer handled it perfectly. "His conduct was unfortunate." But I do not believe it rises to the level of firing offense or public lynching. It requires a much more thorough review of the fact surrounding the incident (how reasonable was the officers skepticism?) and the officer's history (is there anything in his history that suggests a sinister motive rather than a mere lapse in judgment).

Just set down the pitch-forks and let this thing work itself out.

kysirsoze

03-26-2009, 11:08 AM

Bottom line is none of us were there to see exactly how it went down so either extreme view is pretty unwarrented. This cop was most likely a dick, but Moats should have known that the best way of dealing with a cop is not hopping out of the car and demanding that he hurry up. Obviously he was stressed, but no cop is going to react well when you act that way.

Hopefully they had plenty of time with the MIL in the preceding weeks before she died.

kysirsoze

03-26-2009, 11:10 AM

I'm roughly Moats age, my Aunts are in their late 40s. They don't look much different than a few of my wife's friends who are in their early 30s. Let's not go assuming frail old ladies just because one was an aunt.

And again, I'm not saying the officer handled it perfectly. "His conduct was unfortunate." But I do not believe it rises to the level of firing offense or public lynching. It requires a much more thorough review of the fact surrounding the incident (how reasonable was the officers skepticism?) and the officer's history (is there anything in his history that suggests a sinister motive rather than a mere lapse in judgment).

Just set down the pitch-forks and let this thing work itself out.

GREAT aunt but your point still stands. I know a few 60 year olds and none of them would I describe as "frail."

DeezNutz

03-26-2009, 11:11 AM

I'm roughly Moats age, my Aunts are in their late 40s. They don't look much different than a few of my wife's friends who are in their early 30s. Let's not go assuming frail old ladies just because one was an aunt.

And again, I'm not saying the officer handled it perfectly. "His conduct was unfortunate." But I do not believe it rises to the level of firing offense or public lynching. It requires a much more thorough review of the fact surrounding the incident (how reasonable was the officers skepticism?) and the officer's history (is there anything in his history that suggests a sinister motive rather than a mere lapse in judgment).

Just set down the pitch-forks and let this thing work itself out.

It was a "great aunt" (aunt of one's mother or father, if others, like myself, weren't sure of this definition). So, yeah, she's probably decently old.

No lynching. As a general rule, police officers need to get the benefit of the doubt.

Hydrae

03-26-2009, 11:11 AM

Again, you're basing this on secondhand knowledge. Knowing nothing about this officer or his past, we are ill-prepared to pass judgment here. This could be some guy that's been on the force 20 years with a strong record. If so, isn't it fair to conclude that in fact Moats was being a dick? Even a pretty biased reporting of it offers 'his frustration started to show'.

Car ran a red light, likely kept driving. Passengers ignored the officer and left on foot, driver was evidently driving illegally (no proof of insurance) and began to get beliggerent when the stop took longer than he thought it ought to. From where I sit, the officer had every reason to cast a suspicious eye on Moats and his story, up until the point hospital staff confirmed it.

There is a little bit of additional information I can give that I heard on the radio earlier. Sorry, would have posted this before but got busy here at work. :)

The officer in question is 25 years old so probably has limited experience. No idea on previous conduct or anything like that.

This whole thing was recorded on the officers dashcam, complete with audio. I am not aware of it being publically available though.

DeezNutz

03-26-2009, 11:12 AM

GREAT aunt but your point still stands. I know a few 60 year olds and none of them would I describe as "frail."

Agreed.

But I don't know any who are dangerous looking. Ugly? Perhaps. Dangerous? Nope.

topher79

03-26-2009, 11:16 AM

Didn't have proof of insurance but had the one thing a black man should never leave home without......the Race Card.

CoMoChief

03-26-2009, 11:17 AM

Moral to this story is.

If your mom is dying and you're on the way to the hospital and a cop wants to pull you over for something, don't stop til you're at the door of the hospital.

You can fight all whatever charges the dickhead cop wants to charge you with in court.

crazycoffey

03-26-2009, 11:18 AM

I sounds like the cop was on a power trip. Once he went into his "little Rambo want to be" song and dance, he wasn't going to stop until he was damn good and ready.

I hate the "power trip" arguement. While it has been abused by cops many times, we all know it has; but sometimes that extra "power trip" is what can save your life. Remember that cops are human, and feel fear, and use the tools at their disposal to stay safe. If saying "know what I can do" flexes my power and keeps the situation at bay, I'm using it.

Kind of like your dad pulling off his belt and saying, "you want me wack you with this again?" or whatever your dad used to punish you....

Fish

03-26-2009, 11:21 AM

Have you ever received a ticket that didn't take 15 minutes? I haven't.

And we're getting secondhand reports here. Very likely the officer told him that if he didn't settle down and wait for the ticket, he'd get the fleeing charge. In other words, he was saying that if he pulls the stunt his wife just did, he's getting tagged for fleeing, I've got no problem with that. Again, because it all came prior to independant verfication.

No, we're getting quotes from the dash video, which the news station transcribed... This isn't a secondhand report. These were quotes from the dash video.

Dallas-Fort Worth television station WFAA-TV also obtained dashboard video from inside Powell's cruiser, detailing the exchange in which Powell threatened Moats with arrest.

CoMoChief

03-26-2009, 11:22 AM

God I love cops. Especially Columbia, MO cops. Shucks they're the best

crazycoffey

03-26-2009, 11:27 AM

man, some of you are taking this way too far. On both sides;

All we know is what the paper published, the writer and editor are both human and make mistakes before. Have any of you been on the side of the road, alone, stopping a car that has enough people to out number you? The situation can go from bad to worse in the blink of an eye.

My stance on these issues have always been the same, none of us were there in the uniform nor in the car going through what the Moats were going through. Share insight to what I'd do and what the law (as I know it) allows for both sides.

why must it be, either the asshole shouldn't have talked to the officer that way or that all cops are assholes?

vailpass

03-26-2009, 11:27 AM

jackass , most likely a racist too

I'd be beyond pissed

And you know the officer is a racist how?
Feel free to go through life knee-jerking to everything you hear.
Police have to put up with so much bullshit just to do their job, sometimes things like this happen.

crazycoffey

03-26-2009, 11:29 AM

There is a little bit of additional information I can give that I heard on the radio earlier. Sorry, would have posted this before but got busy here at work. :)

The officer in question is 25 years old so probably has limited experience. No idea on previous conduct or anything like that.

This whole thing was recorded on the officers dashcam, complete with audio. I am not aware of it being publically available though.

exactly, and the officer's leadership/internal affairs WILL look at it all with a critical/educated eye and due process will be followed. If the officer needs to be fired, he will. If he needs training he will be trained. Etc.

DJ's left nut

03-26-2009, 11:30 AM

No, we're getting quotes from the dash video, which the news station transcribed... This isn't a secondhand report. These were quotes from the dash video.

C'mon, read that thing again. That 'report' may has well have been an editorial. It's chopped up, it's been distilled into what makes better copy. You think the papers are above sensationalizing to increase readership? Hell, they're dying left and right, they'll absolutely trump stuff up. The quotes don't provide tone of voice, body language or even a full chronology.

We're getting a distilled version of it through an intermediary, it's absolutely secondhand. It's the very definition of secondhand.

The full story is on the tape. There's probably going to be some legal action that brings it out. Then and only then will we be able make a conclusion based on first-hand reports.

Skyy God

03-26-2009, 11:31 AM

I'm not sure who's worse, dickhead cops or asshole cop apologists who'll defend any conduct, no matter how reprehensible.

crazycoffey

03-26-2009, 11:31 AM

Agreed.

But I don't know any who are dangerous looking. Ugly? Perhaps. Dangerous? Nope.

I remember watching a video of a 80-90 year old couple that were stopped for seat belts and one of the grandparents shot the cop and drove away. All on the dash cam. It was to prove, that anything can happen, and it's point is to not underestimate the people in the car.

vailpass

03-26-2009, 11:31 AM

That is FUCKED. UP.

They were in the goddamn hospital parking lot for fuck's sake. That officer should be shot in the back of the head.

ShwartzChaser proving he knows absolutely nothing about the real world and how things work.
I have a buddy to whom I would LOVE to hear you repeat your 'shot in the back of the head' comment.
I'll pay for your airfare to come out here and tell him.
A one-way ticket is all you will need.

bdeg

03-26-2009, 11:31 AM

And you know the officer is a racist how?
Feel free to go through life knee-jerking to everything you hear.
Police have to put up with so much bullshit just to do their job, sometimes things like this happen.

I agree with the other poster who said it would not have gone down like this if he was white. If nothing else the officer should've walked him in.

I didn't say he was a racist, I said he probably was.

Swanman

03-26-2009, 11:32 AM

I just read the article, and while cops do have tough, dangerous jobs, that cop is a dickhead. The best way to handle it is let the guy go inside while you are writing the ticket. If he was lying and then scampers, you have his car right there to impound and instead of a moving violation, you have a whole list of violations to be charged, which in theory could earn the municipality more money than a freaking traffic ticket. Or you can just act like a dickhead and get in the papers portrayed as such.

Demonpenz

03-26-2009, 11:32 AM

what do the dumbest kids in high school become? Cops

DJ's left nut

03-26-2009, 11:33 AM

I'm not sure who's worse, dickhead cops or asshole cop apologists who'll defend any conduct, no matter how reprehensible.

I'm going to go with the folks that go off half-cocked and call conduct 'reprehensible' with only a tentative hold on what may or may not have happened.

DeezNutz

03-26-2009, 11:33 AM

I remember watching a video of a 80-90 year old couple that were stopped for seat belts and one of the grandparents shot the cop and drove away. All on the dash cam. It was to prove, that anything can happen, and it's point is to not underestimate the people in the car.

Wow. That's fucked up.

And brings up a good counter-argument to my point.

SAUTO

03-26-2009, 11:33 AM

crazycoffey

03-26-2009, 11:34 AM

No, we're getting quotes from the dash video, which the news station transcribed... This isn't a secondhand report. These were quotes from the dash video.

I understand that, but what does the newspaper's transciption say to the officer's/Moat's tones, body languages, and attitudes? I read that both were bad but we know with hindsight that Moat was telling the truth, and he eventually calmed down. the officer got on a soapbox for a few moments too, but all in all - it's still a second hand account.

crazycoffey

03-26-2009, 11:35 AM

crazycoffey

03-26-2009, 11:36 AM

I'm not sure who's worse, dickhead cops or asshole cop apologists who'll defend any conduct, no matter how reprehensible.

who is the asshole cop that is defending any conduct on this thread?

crazycoffey

03-26-2009, 11:37 AM

were they actually alone on the side of the road? it doesnt seem like it. hospital security, nurses, other officers. this officer took it a little far IMO, just trying to be an asshole.

It was a attitude point, not specific to this case. Has anyone on this thread been in this cop's situation before? Is what I was trying to ask.

Swanman

03-26-2009, 11:38 AM

I understand that, but what does the newspaper's transciption say to the officer's/Moat's tones, body languages, and attitudes? I read that both were bad but we know with hindsight that Moat was telling the truth, and he eventually calmed down. the officer got on a soapbox for a few moments too, but all in all - it's still a second hand account.

If a family member of mine could die any minute, and a cop is not letting me see my dying family member because I rolled through a red light, I'm going to get a little agitated too.

vailpass

03-26-2009, 11:38 AM

I'm not sure who's worse, dickhead cops or asshole cop apologists who'll defend any conduct, no matter how reprehensible.

Yeah man fight the power. Do you hear yourself? You sound like a 16 year old kid. Grow up.

Brock

03-26-2009, 11:38 AM

who is the asshole cop that is defending any conduct on this thread?

"Asshole cop apologist".

vailpass

03-26-2009, 11:39 AM

I agree with the other poster who said it would not have gone down like this if he was white. If nothing else the officer should've walked him in.

I didn't say he was a racist, I said he probably was.

And you base this statement on what?

Katipan

03-26-2009, 11:39 AM

You wouldn't keep walking to see a loved one before she died? Really?

You think as she was walking into the hospital (again, to SEE A LOVED ONE BEFORE SHE DIED), she was cackling and raising two middle fingers into the air, saying "**** da po-lice"? Really? Really?

I can't believe people are defending the cop here.

Its really cute how someone can say A and you take it to mean BCDEFGHI but it's really not condusive for conversation.

DJ's left nut

03-26-2009, 11:40 AM

Wow. That's ****ed up.

And brings up a good counter-argument to my point.

He provided a face to what I was trying to say in my first post.

I'm not asking anyone to take pity on these guys because the job is tough. Everyone's job is difficult in some manner.

I'm bringing up the complications to show that no matter how inane a situation may seem, to these guys they often aren't. They have to be vigilant because it only takes one "well so what if he's lying" to have things go horribly awry.

So when I say they have a tough job, I'm trying to get folks to cut them some slack on a poor judgment call. This is life or death stuff they have to deal with in many circumstances and they absolutely have to err on the side of caution.

crazycoffey

03-26-2009, 11:41 AM

If a family member of mine could die any minute, and a cop is not letting me see my dying family member because I rolled through a red light, I'm going to get a little agitated too.

"Asshole cop apologist".

read post #96 please.

SAUTO

03-26-2009, 11:42 AM

It was a attitude point, not specific to this case. Has anyone on this thread been in this cop's situation before? Is what I was trying to ask.

nope, but i HAVE been on the other side in some pretty bad neighborhoods(when i was MUCH younger), some officers handle things better than others. sometimes you get what you give. some officers act like they've been there before, some dont. this one obviously acted like he had a badge so he could hold things up for as long as possible to be an asshole. if moats was acting so out of line why did the other officer that showed up seem to act as though he should be allowed to go into the hospital?

Skyy God

03-26-2009, 11:42 AM

I'm going to go with the folks that go off half-cocked and call conduct 'reprehensible' with only a tentative hold on what may or may not have happened.

Dude, the quotes in the article are pulled from the in-car camera. If they were truly taken out of context, as you claim, the cop wouldn't have been suspended.

As for whether race played a factor, it sounds like there's nothing on the transcript to suggest that.

Brock

03-26-2009, 11:43 AM

read post #96 please.

Why?

crazycoffey

03-26-2009, 11:43 AM

everyone knows the side of this arguement I usually stand on, but I can't side with this guy, from the accounts of the stop in the paper.

But to explain one thing about this situation, so as you all know. The two that left the car hadn't done anything wrong, and the officer had no probable cause to legally think they had. This was a big scenerio in training situations. Stopping a car for speeding and the passenger just got out and started walking away. There is no law that says you have to stay in the car during a traffic stop. NOW-if you run away, it looks bad and changes the actions, as do some other actions. And of course the reason for stop can change this too. Just in the case of most traffic violations, it's all on the driver alone.

Now in this case, he rolled through a red light, there wasn't much other traffic around, according to the paper, and the cop stopped him in the hospital parking lot. I don't see how the cop doesn't say, "ok, lets go see if you're telling the truth" and walk in the hospital with them. If he was lying you throw the book at him for wasting your time, if he's not, you say piece out, sorry for your loss.

This guy is a prime example of the bad apples making the bunch look bad.

here, I'll make it easy for you....

ChiTown

03-26-2009, 11:43 AM

So when I say they have a tough job, I'm trying to get folks to cut them some slack on a poor judgment call. This is life or death stuff they have to deal with in many circumstances and they absolutely have to err on the side of caution.

Are you saying my desk job is not life or death? Dude, I nearly bled to death the other day when I grabbed an incoming fax off the machine and suffered a DEEP paper cut!

I want to shoot you in the back of your head (2x) with my stapler!

DJ's left nut

03-26-2009, 11:44 AM

who is the asshole cop that is defending any conduct on this thread?

Oh I'm almost certain that's me.

I'll live with it. I think I've done a fair job of laying out a defense for his conduct while at the same time criticizing it, but whatever.

It's either "fuck da police" or you're a scab. I'll deal.

seclark

03-26-2009, 11:44 AM

read post #96 please.

i think that means, "Asshole apologist for cops"
sec

vailpass

03-26-2009, 11:45 AM

He provided a face to what I was trying to say in my first post.

I'm not asking anyone to take pity on these guys because the job is tough. Everyone's job is difficult in some manner.

I'm bringing up the complications to show that no matter how inane a situation may seem, to these guys they often aren't. They have to be vigilant because it only takes one "well so what if he's lying" to have things go horribly awry.

So when I say they have a tough job, I'm trying to get folks to cut them some slack on a poor judgment call. This is life or death stuff they have to deal with in many circumstances and they absolutely have to err on the side of caution.

My ex-cop buddy, back in his cop days, answered a disturbance call at a house in a nice residential area.
He went to the door, rang the bell, then took a step back to signal his partner.
At that moment the porch in front of him dissapeared in a deafening blast. Dude was laying under the porch with a sawed-off 12 gauge and emptied both barrels in the spot he thought the cop was. My buddy answered with force, went through the process associated with a shooting, then left the force.

A cop has good reason not to trust anyone ever and to always be on the lookout. Always.

DJ's left nut

03-26-2009, 11:46 AM

Dude, the quotes in the article are pulled from the in-car camera. If they were truly taken out of context, as you claim, the cop wouldn't have been suspended.

As for whether race played a factor, it sounds like there's nothing on the transcript to suggest that.

Officers are nearly always suspended during a pending investigation, oftentimes for their own good. A) They can't mantain focus which could lead to disaster, B) the same situation could arise (or some incarnation of it) and the officer is in a lurch on what the proper response would be and C) they become a target.

This isn't an indictment of the officer's conduct, but rather an administrative measure designed to protect all involved.

And as I and CC have already pointed out, it does not show the entire thing, nor does it show the chronology, body language or attitudes involved.

It is, by its very definition, a secondhand account.

Brock

03-26-2009, 11:47 AM

here, I'll make it easy for you....

What are you trying to prove? That you aren't an asshole cop apologist that nobody said you were to begin with?

DJ's left nut

03-26-2009, 11:47 AM

Are you saying my desk job is not life or death? Dude, I nearly bled to death the other day when I grabbed an incoming fax off the machine and suffered a DEEP paper cut!

I want to shoot you in the back of your head (2x) with my stapler!

Be careful, you might IM your boss on accident. There's been a rash of that going on.

crazycoffey

03-26-2009, 11:49 AM

I hate the "power trip" arguement. While it has been abused by cops many times, we all know it has; but sometimes that extra "power trip" is what can save your life. Remember that cops are human, and feel fear, and use the tools at their disposal to stay safe. If saying "know what I can do" flexes my power and keeps the situation at bay, I'm using it.

Kind of like your dad pulling off his belt and saying, "you want me wack you with this again?" or whatever your dad used to punish you....

nope, but i HAVE been on the other side in some pretty bad neighborhoods(when i was MUCH younger), some officers handle things better than others. sometimes you get what you give. some officers act like they've been there before, some dont. this one obviously acted like he had a badge so he could hold things up for as long as possible to be an asshole. if moats was acting so out of line why did the other officer that showed up seem to act as though he should be allowed to go into the hospital?

he's a young officer that made a mistake in his judgement call, I've said that all along. It's unfortunate for sure, and if he has a history of these mistakes and not learning from them, he needs to be transferred to a desk job or given his walking papers. But not based on just this one event, it's not that bad of a response for him. One that a more experienced officer probably would have handled better, but it is what it is.

SAUTO

03-26-2009, 11:51 AM

SAUTO

03-26-2009, 11:53 AM

and one other thing, if a cop ever told me he was going to cuff me and take me to jail over running a red light he would be told to fuck off and do it. nothing in running a light is cause for going to jail. hell even if moats was talking shit thats not real cause

crazycoffey

03-26-2009, 11:54 AM

What are you trying to prove? That you aren't an asshole cop apologist that nobody said you were to begin with?

really brock, you can be an ass, so is it so wrong of me to think that's what you implied here;

I'm not sure who's worse, dickhead cops or asshole cop apologists who'll defend any conduct, no matter how reprehensible.

who is the asshole cop that is defending any conduct on this thread?

"Asshole cop apologist".

It came shortly after I started posting responses, so I read it as "asshole cops, who appologize for other asshole cops" instead of "assholes who will defend any cop for any reason"

my bad then, don't be a dick all the time, and maybe I'll not be so surprised that you aren't jumping on me all the time. :D

crazycoffey

03-26-2009, 11:55 AM

he's been on the job for 3 years, didnt see anywhere an age listed, so what makes you think he's young?

I think the article mentioned he was 25? I'll go back and re-read it for clarity. But on the job for three years even if he's 50, still makes him a "young cop"

mikey23545

03-26-2009, 11:56 AM

Fish

03-26-2009, 11:57 AM

C'mon, read that thing again. That 'report' may has well have been an editorial. It's chopped up, it's been distilled into what makes better copy. You think the papers are above sensationalizing to increase readership? Hell, they're dying left and right, they'll absolutely trump stuff up. The quotes don't provide tone of voice, body language or even a full chronology.

We're getting a distilled version of it through an intermediary, it's absolutely secondhand. It's the very definition of secondhand.

The full story is on the tape. There's probably going to be some legal action that brings it out. Then and only then will we be able make a conclusion based on first-hand reports.

No, they are quotes. You don't edit or distill quotes.

SAUTO

03-26-2009, 11:57 AM

I think the article mentioned he was 25? I'll go back and re-read it for clarity. But on the job for three years even if he's 50, still makes him a "young cop"

all i read was the part on here, didnt see it there. and 3 years should be good not so young

Skyy God

03-26-2009, 11:57 AM

Here's the video, campers.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/032609dnmetcopstop.3e9c080.html

http://www.dallasnews.com/video/index.html?nvid=345818

vailpass

03-26-2009, 11:57 AM

vailpass

03-26-2009, 11:58 AM

So how long until your 14th birthday?

LMAO Exactly. You wonder if some of these clowns are on welfare or just plain socially underdeveloped.

DeezNutz

03-26-2009, 12:00 PM

He provided a face to what I was trying to say in my first post.

I'm not asking anyone to take pity on these guys because the job is tough. Everyone's job is difficult in some manner.

I'm bringing up the complications to show that no matter how inane a situation may seem, to these guys they often aren't. They have to be vigilant because it only takes one "well so what if he's lying" to have things go horribly awry.

So when I say they have a tough job, I'm trying to get folks to cut them some slack on a poor judgment call. This is life or death stuff they have to deal with in many circumstances and they absolutely have to err on the side of caution.

I understood what you're saying, and I'm still skeptical about the level of common sense used by this officer in this particular situation.

Seems like walking into the hospital with the people and handling the situation from this point forward would have assuaged a lot of concerns for both parties.

I'll admit that my argument about the age of the great aunt is probably pretty weak. 99/100 it's probably accurate, but there's always an exception.

crazycoffey

03-26-2009, 12:00 PM

and one other thing, if a cop ever told me he was going to cuff me and take me to jail over running a red light he would be told to **** off and do it. nothing in running a light is cause for going to jail. hell even if moats was talking shit thats not real cause

actually it is an arrestable offense in the state of texas. the only traffic offense that isn't - speeding.

*it was when I was last working there, 4 years ago, and it doesn't happen much, but it is entirely legal to do so. It usually happened with illegal immigrants that you have no other course of action for. Like they run a red light and plow into another car, they don't have insurance, yadda yadda....

Brock

03-26-2009, 12:00 PM

really brock, you can be an ass, so is it so wrong of me to think that's what you implied here;
It came shortly after I started posting responses, so I read it as "asshole cops, who appologize for other asshole cops" instead of "assholes who will defend any cop for any reason"

my bad then, don't be a dick all the time, and maybe I'll not be so surprised that you aren't jumping on me all the time. :D

I doubt I've said 20 words to you the entire time you've been posting here, I just wanted to know what caused you to get a rashy vag about something that had nothing to do with you.

ChiTown

03-26-2009, 12:01 PM

he's been on the job for 3 years, didnt see anywhere an age listed, so what makes you think he's young?

Officer Delayed NFL
Player at Hospital

Created On: Thursday, 26 Mar 2009, 7:29 AM CDT

PLANO - A white Dallas police officer who delayed Houston Texans' running back Ryan Moats, who is black, from visiting his mother-in-law before she died in a Plano hospital was reassigned to dispatch pending an investigation.

Moats, his wife and other family members rushed from their suburban Dallas home to Baylor Regional Medical Center at Plano during the early hours of March 18 after getting word around midnight that Moats' mother-in-law, Jonetta Collinsworth, was dying. She had breast cancer.

Dallas-Fort Worth station WFAA-TV, which obtained video from a dashboard camera inside the officer's vehicle, reported that Moats' vehicle rolled through a red light en route to the hospital. Officer Robert Powell, 25, stopped the SUV in the hospital's parking lot outside the emergency room.

Moats explained to the officer that he waited until there was no traffic before proceeding through the red light and that his mother-in-law was dying, right then.

The dashboard video revealed an intense exchange in which the officer threatened to jail Moats.

"Get in there," said Powell, yelling at 27-year-old Tamishia Moats, wife of Ryan Moats, as she exited the car. "Let me see your hands!"

"Excuse me, my mom is dying," Tamishia Moats said. "Do you understand?"

She and her great aunt ignored the officer and rushed inside the hospital to see Collinsworth.

Hospital security guards arrived and told Powell that the Moatses' relative really was upstairs dying. Powell checked inside his vehicle to determine whether Ryan Moats had any outstanding warrants. He found none.

Another hospital staffer came out and spoke with a Plano police officer who had arrived. The Plano officer told Powell the relative was indeed dying, in an unsuccessful attempt to intervene.

By the time the 26-year-old NFL player received a ticket and a lecture from Powell, at least 13 minutes had passed. When he and Collinsworth's father entered the hospital, they learned Jonetta Collinsworth was dead, The Dallas Morning News reported Wednesday in its online edition.

Dallas Police Assistant Chief Floyd Simpson said Powell, who was hired in January 2006, told police officials that he believed that he was doing his job.

"When people are in distress, we should come to the rescue. We shouldn't further their distress," Simpson said.

The Moatses said Wednesday that they can't help but think that race might have played a part in how Powell treated them.

"I think he should lose his job," said Ryan Moats, a Dallas native.

The ticket was dismissed, Lt. Andy Harvey told WFAA-TV.

Collinsworth was buried Saturday in Louisiana.

CoMoChief

03-26-2009, 12:03 PM

What I dont get is if someone is dying, CLEARLY its an emergency, ANY cop should let you go for "running a red light" a measly $70 ticket, if you think he's full of shit, then follow him up to the fuckin hospital door (hell from what it sounds like they're near the damn door anyway) and make sure he gets in ok, hence telling the truth.

If you're a real dickhead cop, then issue the ticket after he's seen the mother for running a red light. You have to be a really big dickhead cop to do something like that.

If the family flees ala lying, then the situation escalates and as an officer you deal with it accordingly, call for backup whatever they may do in that scenario.

Its been said this cop was a young one 25 yrs old. Doesn't matter, you dont need a fuckin badge and a gun and a squad car to fuckin know when an emergency arises. This has nothing to do with lack of on the job experience and more so to do with the fact the cop is either A: a total prick with a power trip. (whenever you threaten a citizen with something like "you know what I can do...." thats being a dickhead cop on a power trip) or B: This cop was a total dumbass, or C: Probably a little bit of both.

DeezNutz

03-26-2009, 12:06 PM

Ok. After watching the video, I'm going to have to say the cop is a dumbass.

He should have gone into the hospital with the man.

crazycoffey

03-26-2009, 12:13 PM

Ok. After watching the video, I'm going to have to say the cop is a dumbass.

He should have gone into the hospital with the man.

I agree, I said that all along, but just to be the appologist;
was that two lights he ran through and a stop sign into the parking lot (not usually ticketable, btw)? Plus there is enough traffic on the road to warrant the cops concern for public safety. The cop has no idea what's going on, and he is trying to take charge of the situation at first. Three people jump out, he pulled his gun, no problem there. But when he asked for insurance, he should have just said, "calm down, let's figue this out. I'll go in with you, but if you're lying, I'm arresting you, you ok with that?" and this turns out completely different, doesn't even make the news.....

Moats is being a bit aggressive, at first, and trying to control the situation when the cop has no choice but do what he can to take control. The cop drags it on way too long. Moats finally starts to comply and the cop then gets on his soapbox. That was stupid, but adrelaline does weird things to you, the cop and moats actually.

bdeg

03-26-2009, 12:14 PM

lol, he drew his gun? I gotta see this

WOW

He was agitated sure but I can't blame him one bit, he explained the situation perfectly

GoHuge

03-26-2009, 12:15 PM

This is kind of a tough spot for everybody involved. Having said that personally I would have told the cop to go f**k himself. He didn't do a hit and run, he wasn't speeding excessively, and according to the report wasn't screaming and cussing at the cop. He conceded and said OK just give me the ticket!! "I'll just take you to jail for running a red light" Give me a f**king break. Imagine walking into the cop shop and telling them to "book this scumbag for running a red light!!" This was nothing more than an over zealous cop. He could have toned it down but chose to be as difficult as possible. The cop had no cause for taking the tone he did from the get go.

crazycoffey

03-26-2009, 12:16 PM

lol, he drew his gun? I gotta see this

doesn't really show it on the video, the sister/wife said it. But I can see that he would do that, it was a long pursuit, the car never slowed, so the cop is first going to think, why is this person running....

Lzen

03-26-2009, 12:16 PM

BigChiefFan

03-26-2009, 12:18 PM

To SERVE and Protect, right?

crazycoffey

03-26-2009, 12:18 PM

I doubt I've said 20 words to you the entire time you've been posting here, I just wanted to know what caused you to get a rashy vag about something that had nothing to do with you.

whatever, I just tried to make peace with you, and you still smell of dirty ass. bye...

vailpass

03-26-2009, 12:19 PM

LMAO at all of you who are saying "I would have told the cop to go fuck himself" or "I would have just walked anyway even if the cop told me not to".
I'd like to be there to see it when you pulled a smart move like that.

ChiTown

03-26-2009, 12:20 PM

LMAO at all of you who are saying "I would have told the cop to go **** himself" or "I would have just walked anyway even if the cop told me not to".
I'd like to be there to see it when you pulled a smart move like that.

If it was my MIL? F no!

:)

crazycoffey

03-26-2009, 12:20 PM

I would have just walked into the hospital anyway and told the cop where I would be if he wanted to come up and give me a ticket. But the dude did run a red light. While we are all bagging on the jack ass cop, let's not forget that he could have seriously injured or killed someone else on the way to the hospital. It appears to me that Moats is not completely innocent here.

I would have done the same thing, walked into the hospital that is, but you're also right that Moats isn't comletely innocent. It sucks, that you want to rush to the bedside, but what if that became acceptable behavior by all? A car crash enroute would have made the situation worse.

vailpass

03-26-2009, 12:21 PM

If it was my MIL? F no!

:)

ROFL

seclark

03-26-2009, 12:21 PM

bdeg

03-26-2009, 12:22 PM

alnorth

03-26-2009, 12:23 PM

There is absolutely no excuse for this. If the cop wants to escort them to the hospital to make sure they aren't lying (write one hell of a nasty ticket if the story doesnt check out), fine. If he wants to write the ticket after they go in for the infraction, fine. This story just said the driver asked the cop to hurry and has a perfectly reasonable reason for it. Assuming there isnt other details left out like the driver being severely confrontational, dropping 4-letter bombs, etc there's no excuse for this.

vailpass

03-26-2009, 12:23 PM

they'd taze you, bro!
sec

:D

bdeg

03-26-2009, 12:24 PM

WOW, they couldn't do the resuscitation because he wasn't there to sign the papers?

This cop is going to get SUED.

unbelievable

after hearing that, he STILL wasted time

crazycoffey

03-26-2009, 12:25 PM

they'd taze you, bro!
sec

I was wondering when this would be posted, you all are losing your burst!!!

LOL ROFL

DaFace

03-26-2009, 12:25 PM

Here's the video, campers.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/032609dnmetcopstop.3e9c080.html

http://www.dallasnews.com/video/index.html?nvid=345818

Yeah...I didn't realize they were literally 20 yards from the entrance to the hospital. The dude should have at least gone in to check and see what the situation was. That's pretty fucked up.

Pitt Gorilla

03-26-2009, 12:25 PM

he's a young officer that made a mistake in his judgement call, I've said that all along. It's unfortunate for sure, and if he has a history of these mistakes and not learning from them, he needs to be transferred to a desk job or given his walking papers. But not based on just this one event, it's not that bad of a response for him. One that a more experienced officer probably would have handled better, but it is what it is.The officer was a dick. Period. He asks Moats if he has a problem; Moats had already explained SEVERAL times that he had a pretty major problem.

The officer also offers to screw the guys life up a few times.

The great irony is the police car running a red light to stop someone for running a red light. I get the law, but that just seems silly.

CoMoChief

03-26-2009, 12:25 PM

Just saw the video.

1. The officer COMPLETELY ignores the fact that his mother in law is dying.
2. The officer many times is threatening him with arrest, fucking up his night, screwing him over etc. This tactic is as unprofessional as it gets folks.
3. I didnt realize how close they were to the hospital door. Jesus the cop should have just walked him to the door, and check with with counter inside and see if he was lying. That alone would have taken about 1 minute.
4. When the security guard said the mother is dying, "ok im almost done" DID YOU NOT JUST FUCKING HEAR HIM?

The fact that he's checking warrants and shit is just a backup plan to save his ass, because he knows he's prob fucked, and at this point wants to get him for something.

ChiTown

03-26-2009, 12:26 PM

WOW, they couldn't do the resuscitation because he wasn't there to sign the papers?

Hmmm. That just doesn't sound right to me.

SAUTO

03-26-2009, 12:26 PM

Oh yeah bad boy you'd tell 'em wouldn't you? LMAO
How old are you 15?

NOPE but it usually works with asshole cops who are overstepping their bounds, i'm sure most would like to explain why they took a guy in for running a red light

vailpass

03-26-2009, 12:27 PM

NOPE but it usually works with asshole cops who are overstepping their bounds, i'm sure most would like to explain why they took a guy in for running a red light

You've told a police officer(s) to fuck off?

bdeg

03-26-2009, 12:27 PM

Hmmm. That just doesn't sound right to me.

Just what the nurse said, maybe it was an excuse she invented to try to get him free.

CoMoChief

03-26-2009, 12:28 PM

I would have just walked into the hospital anyway and told the cop where I would be if he wanted to come up and give me a ticket. But the dude did run a red light. While we are all bagging on the jack ass cop, let's not forget that he could have seriously injured or killed someone else on the way to the hospital. It appears to me that Moats is not completely innocent here.

Because CLEARLY according to the video, there was alot of traffic at that time. :spock: Concern for public safety, hell he stopped then went thru it. That tells anyone following that he was looking to make sure no one was coming.

Pitt Gorilla

03-26-2009, 12:28 PM

crazycoffey

03-26-2009, 12:28 PM

WOW, they couldn't do the resuscitation because he wasn't there to sign the papers?

This cop is going to get SUED.

unbelievable

after hearing that, he STILL wasted time

things people will say to get out of a ticket. I smell BS on this, it was his Mother in-law, the wife maybe. But she was being treated for Breast cancer, they would have gone over this before that night. Plus usually there is an "always resusciate" policy and you have to sign "do not resusciate" papers if the patient is older and about to go anyway, and the patient isn't mentally capable of making that call themselves....

Once they start a "code blue" it's to start resuscitation, and the family has to leave the room.

SAUTO

03-26-2009, 12:30 PM

You've told a police officer(s) to fuck off?

ROFL many times

DeezNutz

03-26-2009, 12:30 PM

Most people would have done exactly what Moats did.

And this would have meant dicking around in the parking lot while the MIL died.

bdeg

03-26-2009, 12:30 PM

with cancer, you're right they probably would've planned for it. I was just taking the nurse's words at face value

crazycoffey

03-26-2009, 12:31 PM

The officer was a dick. Period. He asks Moats if he has a problem; Moats had already explained SEVERAL times that he had a pretty major problem.

The officer also offers to screw the guys life up a few times.

The great irony is the police car running a red light to stop someone for running a red light. I get the law, but that just seems silly.

I couldn't see in the video where Moats slowed down to go through the light (s), and an emergency vehicle with strobes and sirens going through a red light is completely different and you know that. How does the cop know that they didn't just turn in to avoid the ticket? the answer, he goes in and finds out they are telling the truth.

No doubt he was being a dick....

BigChiefFan

03-26-2009, 12:33 PM

They could have been preparing for it, but nobody knows EXACTLY when that time will come. It sounds like they got the dreaded phone call and left for the hospital, to say their final goodbye-that isn't unusual in the least.

Pitt Gorilla

03-26-2009, 12:34 PM

I couldn't see in the video where Moats slowed down to go through the light (s), and an emergency vehicle with strobes and sirens going through a red light is completely different and you know that. How does the cop know that they didn't just turn in to avoid the ticket? the answer, he goes in and finds out they are telling the truth.

No doubt he was being a dick....I noted the difference, but it doesn't change the irony (especially from a more pragmatic perspective).

The officer didn't seem to care about the "truth." The guy pulled into a hospital. How difficult would it have been to actually check out the validity of the situation?

DeezNutz

03-26-2009, 12:36 PM

I know it sounds crazy, but the officer could have asked, "What's going on? What the hell are you doing?"

And then, he could have...get ready for the really crazy, fucked up part...listened.

Then maybe he would have proceeded differently.

Hydrae

03-26-2009, 12:43 PM

BigChiefFan

03-26-2009, 12:43 PM

That cop is a royal douche. What an insensitive prick.

CoMoChief

03-26-2009, 12:53 PM

Brings up an interesting point. I have always contended that traffic lights are there to keep people safe while traversing the intersection. As such I would maintain that while Moats broke the letter of the law, by stopping and looking before proceeding he did not break the intent of the law. He did not infringe on someone's rights (ran into their car while they were legally proceeding through the intersection) so I would contend there is no infraction here.

Always thought this would be an interesting court case although I have never decided to try it myself. I doubt a judge would listen to that argument.

My buddy got out of a bullshit "No right turn on red light ticket once because he sat there at 1am for about 15 min and no one was around (except a cop hiding purposely) and the light never changed so he just turned his blinker on and went. They dropped that ticket and the cop actually went to the court date and the judge was mad at him for wasting her time. ROFL

crazycoffey

03-26-2009, 12:55 PM

I noted the difference, but it doesn't change the irony (especially from a more pragmatic perspective).

The officer didn't seem to care about the "truth." The guy pulled into a hospital. How difficult would it have been to actually check out the validity of the situation?

Not too difficult at all, and one I know I would have done were I the cop, and I know many others that would have too. Unfortunately there is only a select group with the personal ethics and fortitude that would do "the right thing" and it's really sad (on a pragmatic level) that this select group on both sides of the badge, seems to be dieing out these days....

crazycoffey

03-26-2009, 12:57 PM

My buddy got out of a bullshit "No right turn on red light ticket once because he sat there at 1am for about 15 min and no one was around (except a cop hiding purposely) and the light never changed so he just turned his blinker on and went. They dropped that ticket and the cop actually went to the court date and the judge was mad at him for wasting her time. ROFL

LOL - I've said before about our legal system, social system, work ethics, etc. Society seems to be losing the whole "spirit of the law" grey area. And that's sad. But I'm sure camera enforcement will correct that, mmmmm....

SAUTO

03-26-2009, 12:58 PM

Brings up an interesting point. I have always contended that traffic lights are there to keep people safe while traversing the intersection. As such I would maintain that while Moats broke the letter of the law, by stopping and looking before proceeding he did not break the intent of the law. He did not infringe on someone's rights (ran into their car while they were legally proceeding through the intersection) so I would contend there is no infraction here.

Always thought this would be an interesting court case although I have never decided to try it myself. I doubt a judge would listen to that argument.

nope tried it once, middle of the night, no one around, didnt work. had a cop stop me once driving my 65 impala, give me a speeding ticket when i had been folllowing him for about 5 miles, needless to say the judge laughed HIM out of the courtroom

RealSNR

03-26-2009, 01:02 PM

**** that man, a good officer would have escorted you to the damn hospital.Ding ding ding.

If the cop was out looking for traffic violations at midnight, I doubt he would have had anything else better to do. Instead of being a total douchebag dick.

crazycoffey

03-26-2009, 01:04 PM

The video showed a fair amount of volume through the intersection, and not a good view of how Moats went through it. I will say I agree with the spirit of the law, and so do many judges. It's the "car keeps driving while the cop is trying to stop him" that raised the cops initial concerns for safety, drawing the weapon, etc. I think he handled it right up to the first 30-60 seconds.

Mr. Krab

03-26-2009, 01:07 PM

bdeg

03-26-2009, 01:08 PM

Just about every cop i've met personally or professionally had an ego the size of the state they worked in and love being an arrogant prick. I think it had more to do with the cop being an arrogant ass than race.

entirely possible and I didn't rule that out.

I just know I've never been treated quite like that.

And I also know racists who wouldn't be half that mean to black people.

PastorMikH

03-26-2009, 01:10 PM

Wonder if the cop was young or just had a inferiority complex and a badge powertrip to overcome it.

Cops that use their power to support their ego trips really frustrate me. I've ran into several since I started driving, too many to be honest. Somewhere a REAL crime is being committed and you are here harrasing me.

There are a lot of decent guys wearing badges. Too bad guys like this make them all look bad. Too bad this guy wasn't a part of the Texas Highway Patrol - there's places in Texas he could be reassigned to that are far worse than dispatch and deservedly so for something like this. I'm just glad it happened to someone that actually has a little media pull. Most of us would have just had to take it.

L.A. Chieffan

03-26-2009, 01:12 PM

did moats violate a law?

SAUTO

03-26-2009, 01:14 PM

Lzen

03-26-2009, 01:16 PM

Because CLEARLY according to the video, there was alot of traffic at that time. :spock: Concern for public safety, hell he stopped then went thru it. That tells anyone following that he was looking to make sure no one was coming.

I didn't see the video. Just read a few paragraphs of the thread header.

GoHuge

03-26-2009, 01:17 PM

After watching that video I don't see how anyone can sit here and defend that cop. He was way over zealous and he wasted a ton of very important time patronizing Moats. "I can charge you with blah blah..........just do it then." He can't tell him to stop talking. There are zero laws against talking in a controlled tone trying to explain a situation. That cop made me want to reach through the computer and strangle him. I'm surprised he didn't just go ahead and call him boy to top it all off.

KCUnited

03-26-2009, 01:18 PM

the police union should strike.

Lzen

03-26-2009, 01:27 PM

Ok, I just looked at the video. How can anyone say with confidence that he proceeded through the red light with caution? I can't really tell from that video.

Lzen

03-26-2009, 01:29 PM

The other thing I got from that video is that the officer is a real jack ass.

bdeg

03-26-2009, 01:32 PM

He claimed he did, and the officer didn't dispute it. Knowing the officer, isn't that evidence enough?

PastorMikH

03-26-2009, 01:36 PM

After watching the video...

What happened to the good ol' days when a cop seeing a person with their hazards on running through a light, and obviously heading towards a hospital, would pull around them and give them a police escort to help public safety? I don't know, but for some reason I think maybe, just maybe if someone is running hazzards and rushing to a hospital there could be an emergency.

Another observation, as long as he was at the scene with someone resisting arrest, two people fleeing a the vehicle on foot, another getting out of the vehicle to face him, where was his backup?

Lastly, given the way he was trying to run the scene, I'm surprised the cop didn't use pepper spray or a tazer.

PastorMikH

03-26-2009, 01:40 PM

did moats violate a law?

A friend of mine who is in a badge carrying member of law enforcement says every police officer has the right to excercise DISCRETION. While Moats did actually violate a law, discretion would say that with the circumstances, you give him a verbal warning and let him take care of his family.

RustShack

03-26-2009, 01:41 PM

Lzen

03-26-2009, 01:45 PM

He claimed he did, and the officer didn't dispute it. Knowing the officer, isn't that evidence enough?

The only thing is that there was a lot of traffic from what I saw. So, I am not willing to give him a free pass on that part.

That being said, I wanted to smack the crap out of that officer for the way he handled the whole thing after they got there. Surely, he could have followed the guy in or something. I hope that officer doesn't have a job after this incident. Power trips (should) have no place in law enforcement.

Lzen

03-26-2009, 01:45 PM

A friend of mine who is in a badge carrying member of law enforcement says every police officer has the right to excercise DISCRETION. While Moats did actually violate a law, discretion would say that with the circumstances, you give him a verbal warning and let him take care of his family.

This.

RustShack

03-26-2009, 01:48 PM

Fuck all pigs. The police chief in my home town assisted the assistant police chief rape my friends mom. About a month or two later another cop killed someone with a taser. All cops are pieces of shit who got picked on when they were kids.

I take that back, another one of my friends brother-in-laws is a cop in Des Moines and hes cool as shit. So the majority of cops*

PastorMikH

03-26-2009, 01:50 PM

The only thing is that there was a lot of traffic from what I saw. So, I am not willing to give him a free pass on that part.

That being said, I wanted to smack the crap out of that officer for the way he handled the whole thing after they got there. Surely, he could have followed the guy in or something. I hope that officer doesn't have a job after this incident. Power trips (should) have no place in law enforcement.

There's no reason why he couldn't AT LEAST asked to hold Moats' license and keys, and let him go in and pay his last respects with the instructions that he returns in x amount of minutes for his ticket.

CoMoChief

03-26-2009, 01:57 PM

This cop's an idiot with no common sense is what it all boils down to.

A veh with hazzards on heading to the hospital, running thru red lights is an indication to most people with half a brain that there's an emergency. The guy parked in the damn hospital parking lot 20 yds away from the fuckin entrance.

At this point the officer should have lead him inside once the person said "my mom in law is dying." Then if the person was lying, cuff his ass for whatever charges the cop can come up with. In a situation like this, the entire car is already under distress because of the situation withe the mother dying. The cop doesn't do anything at all to try and even remotely calm the situation, rather the cop's being extremely authoritative in a sensative situation, let alone an emergency. No ones going to want to cooperate with a cop like that anytime, anywhere, no matter who it is.

Chiefnj2

03-26-2009, 02:21 PM

The cop didn't have any control of the situation. He shouldn't have let the two women leave the scene when he is ordering them to stop.

Soupnazi

03-26-2009, 02:26 PM

Pitt Gorilla

03-26-2009, 02:42 PM

I'm getting two things from this thread:
1) There are a lot of people who haven't got a clue what a cop's job is on a day to day basis that can do it perfectly.
2) There are a lot of people here who hate the police more than they hate their mother in law. That's a shock to me.

1. The frame of reference is a single event that can be examined through common data. Folks can certainly note whether or not they would have likely handled the situation in a similar manner.

2. I imagine most people don't HATE either. For example, I have great neighbors that are cops and I love my MIL.

Frazod

03-26-2009, 02:46 PM

I'm getting two things from this thread:
1) There are a lot of people who haven't got a clue what a cop's job is on a day to day basis that can do it perfectly.
2) There are a lot of people here who hate the police more than they hate their mother in law. That's a shock to me.

To be fair, my mother-in-law doesn't steal from me, or ignore my problems unless there's some hope for monetary gain in addressing them.

Police in this country are, for the most part, little more than privateers, operating under the flag of a country that has declared war on its citizens.

JohnnyV13

03-26-2009, 02:51 PM

I would sue the cop for intentional inflcition of emotional distress. I think most juries would give Moats some kind of award, enough that it might deter the cop from being an ass.

PastorMikH

03-26-2009, 03:01 PM

afchiefs

03-26-2009, 03:13 PM

The Chiefs should sign this guy

Cause every Cassel needs a Moat

:doh!:

Sorry long day

The Franchise

03-26-2009, 03:14 PM

The Chiefs should sign this guy

Cause every Cassel needs a Moat

:doh!:

Sorry long day

*crickets chirping*

Soupnazi

03-26-2009, 03:22 PM

So, do you approve of how the cop handled the situation?

Hard to say from what I've read, but most likely no. While I do agree that the police are used far too often in a revenue-generating capacity, and there are some rare example police who enjoy a feeling of power, I get sick of the stupidity of some people's responses.

"**** all cops." Stupid crap like that. Most people that say that stuff have no clue what it's like a cop on a day to day basis, and would never put up with what they do. They'd piss down their leg if someone came up to them intending harm, never mind what they'd do if asked to go defend someone else from harm. They deal with human garbage all day, in an environment where if you're not watching out constantly for your own back, you don't come home.

I get pissed when I hear jackasses who work behind a phone talking TPS reports all day bitch about how they do their job. Some of these people are acting like the cop's actions caused her to die.

With that rant over, I would still submit that I know people who would celebrate their MIL departing this mortal coil.

Crush

03-26-2009, 03:24 PM

The Chiefs should sign this guy

Cause every Cassel needs a Moat

:doh!:

Sorry long day

That, my friends, is the ChiefsPlanet Joke of the Day. Rep.

PastorMikH

03-26-2009, 03:39 PM

I get sick of the stupidity of some people's responses.

"**** all cops." Stupid crap like that. Most people that say that stuff have no clue what it's like a cop on a day to day basis, and would never put up with what they do.

I agree on your take on cops in general - like I pointed out that there are a lot of decent guys wearing badges in a previous post. I have a number of friends in law enforcement in varying capacities. All of them are decent, upstanding guys. At the same time, I am well aware that not all are that way, and those give the rest a bad rap.

Frazod

03-26-2009, 03:55 PM

Hard to say from what I've read, but most likely no. While I do agree that the police are used far too often in a revenue-generating capacity, and there are some rare example police who enjoy a feeling of power, I get sick of the stupidity of some people's responses.

"**** all cops." Stupid crap like that. Most people that say that stuff have no clue what it's like a cop on a day to day basis, and would never put up with what they do. They'd piss down their leg if someone came up to them intending harm, never mind what they'd do if asked to go defend someone else from harm. They deal with human garbage all day, in an environment where if you're not watching out constantly for your own back, you don't come home.

I get pissed when I hear jackasses who work behind a phone talking TPS reports all day bitch about how they do their job. Some of these people are acting like the cop's actions caused her to die.

With that rant over, I would still submit that I know people who would celebrate their MIL departing this mortal coil.

You make it sound like every cop in America is running convoys through Iraq on a daily basis. Give me a break. I doubt if a cop who spends his day writing speeding tickets in my suburb experiences much more danger in an average week than I do. Last time I checked, the whole of America was NOT the west side of Chicago.

Throughout my life, I've called the police on a handful of occasions when things have been stolen from me. Items recovered - ZERO. Interest in my problems from the cops that responded - ZERO. A few years ago some dick in Orlando stole my debit card number and immediately started emptying my bank account. I found out his name address and phone number, and called the police in Naperville and Orlando. The Orlando cops told me to call Naperville, and the Naperville cops told me it was out of their jurisdiction. None of them did a goddamn thing. It was almost like they were annoyed that I called them in the first place. But the motherfuckers are always out there with their trusty radar guns ready to flag me for speeding.

Perhaps tomorrow some gun-blazing, star spangled hero cop will charge forth to save my life in a spectacular fashion, and my opinion will improve. But when I think of cops, one of the first things I think of is the Chicago cop I saw turn his flashing lights and siren on so he could blow through a red light and immediately turn into a Dunkin Donuts parking lot (no emergency, just donuts). And no, I'm not making that up.

Serve and protect my ass.

03-26-2009, 04:01 PM

Have you ever received a ticket that didn't take 15 minutes? I haven't.

And we're getting secondhand reports here. Very likely the officer told him that if he didn't settle down and wait for the ticket, he'd get the fleeing charge. In other words, he was saying that if he pulls the stunt his wife just did, he's getting tagged for fleeing, I've got no problem with that. Again, because it all came prior to independant verfication.

As they were in front of a hospital, there wouldn't be any reason for the officer to find Moat's story far fetched. Perhaps he should have verified the situation before writing the ticket.

RustShack

03-26-2009, 04:03 PM

Report: Powell Drew Gun On Moats’ Wife
Posted by Mike Florio on March 26, 2009, 5:36 p.m.

Lost in the brouhaha that has erupted regarding the shameful (in our opinion) incident that unfolded between Dallas police officer Robert Powell and Texans running back Ryan Moats is a report that Powell drew his gun on Moats’ wife.

Apparently, the weapon was pulled at the outset of the confrontation, when Moats’ wife tried to rush inside the nearby hospital.

“Get in there,” Powell said. “Let me see your hands. Get in there. Put your hands on the car.”

It should have been obvious to anyone with an ounce of common sense that a car with its hazard lights flashing that ran a red light and stopped in the parking lot of a hospital contains people who for whatever reason need to get inside said hospital.

This isn’t about Powell’s subsequent perception, right or wrong, that Moats had a bad attitude. From the moment Powell got out of the car, he was wired for a confrontation. Otherwise, he would have let Moats’ wife head to the hospital without incident.

The fact that Powell opted not to shoot her when she decided to ignore him proves that Powell knew what was happening. And yet he still opted to act like a royal ass.

We realize some are concerned that criticism of police officers might undermine their ability to perform their jobs effectively. We prefer to believe that criticism of those in authority is appropriate, when deserved. Otherwise, Powell and people like him will continue to make the darkest moments of people’s lives unnecessarily darker.

bdeg

03-26-2009, 04:06 PM

Trust me, I know cops have to protect themselves from all the crazy people out there

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But when he found out what was going on, this guy STILL felt the need to push his weight around. It was totally uncalled for

Bugeater

03-26-2009, 04:07 PM

It should have been obvious to anyone with an ounce of common sense that a car with its hazard lights flashing that ran a red light and stopped in the parking lot of a hospital contains people who for whatever reason need to get inside said hospital.
That's complete bullshit. Unless someone who is IN THE CAR needs immediate medical help, they shouldn't be breaking traffic laws.

The Franchise

03-26-2009, 04:09 PM

That's complete bullshit. Unless someone who is IN THE CAR needs immediate medical help, they shouldn't be breaking traffic laws.

Unfortunately this.

GoHuge

03-26-2009, 04:13 PM

I judge everybody as a human being. I talked to a Sheriff deputy yesterday for fifteen minutes and he was a great guy. A little over a month ago I was coming home from the boats at about 3 in the morning on a Saturday night/Sunday morning. I turned and crossed over into the other lane a little bit. A cop pulled me over to check whether I was drinking and driving. I told him no. He took my DL and ins. info went back to his car and checked it all out. He came back, gave me a mini soberiety test to make sure I was OK, then sent me on my way with a "have a great night and be safe." He had all the reason in the world to pull me over, but was very nice. If he would have come at me like that prick on the video I would have gotten all kinds of bent out of shape knowing I did nothing wrong and had all my paperwork in order. There are great folks and dickhead people out there in all walks of life.

BTW they had a presser today and the command staff was extremely embarrased by Powell's actions and he has been suspended with pay. He still thinks he did nothing wrong. Just an ass clown...plain and simple.

tboss27

03-26-2009, 04:16 PM

That's complete bullshit. Unless someone who is IN THE CAR needs immediate medical help, they shouldn't be breaking traffic laws.

Seriously? If it was your immediate family member I highly doubt you would feel the same way. It's not like the guy was putting anyone in danger, he didn't just blow through the light without looking.

crazycoffey

03-26-2009, 04:18 PM

Ok, I just looked at the video. How can anyone say with confidence that he proceeded through the red light with caution? I can't really tell from that video.

I know, right?

The other thing I got from that video is that the officer is a real jack ass.

general consensus among all the board....

**** all pigs, I know from personal experience. The police chief in my home town assisted the assistant police chief rape my friends mom. About a month or two later another cop killed someone with a taser. All cops are pieces of shit who got picked on when they were kids.

FYP

The cop didn't have any control of the situation. He shouldn't have let the two women leave the scene when he is ordering them to stop.

As stated earlier, reality is only the driver is liable for traffic offenses. The passengers, other than jumping out and making the situation difficult to read, really didn't do anything to break the law.

That's complete bullshit. Unless someone who is IN THE CAR needs immediate medical help, they shouldn't be breaking traffic laws.

The real truth, yes. But as others have stated about officer discretion, he didn't HAVE to be a dick about it. of course nothing says he can't either.

Bugeater

03-26-2009, 04:25 PM

Seriously? If it was your immediate family member I highly doubt you would feel the same way. It's not like the guy was putting anyone in danger, he didn't just blow through the light without looking.
If it was my family member, and it was that important to be there when they passed, I wouldn't have waited until the last minute to go there.

DaFace

03-26-2009, 04:31 PM

If it was my family member, and it was that important to be there when they passed, I wouldn't have waited until the last minute to go there.

That's a pretty big leap of logic there to assume they could predict when it would happen.

crazycoffey

03-26-2009, 04:33 PM

That's a pretty big leap of logic there to assume they could predict when it would happen.

leap of faith to assume they didn't have an idea too, the nurse said something about signing papers, and the article mentioned breast cancer, that doesn't sneak up like a heart attack does. Not trying to be mean

Bugeater

03-26-2009, 04:37 PM

That's a pretty big leap of logic there to assume they could predict when it would happen.
Well apparently they could because that's why they were on the way to the hospital. And let's see, he's a football player, it's the offseason, and do you think the Mrs has a job? It's not like they had somewhere else to be. There is simply no excuse for him running the red light in first place.

DaFace

03-26-2009, 04:37 PM

leap of faith to assume they didn't have an idea too, the nurse said something about signing papers, and the article mentioned breast cancer, that doesn't sneak up like a heart attack does. Not trying to be mean

Even if you have some clue, like "she probably won't make it through the rest of the week", it's still tough to spend the whole time in the hospital waiting. I recently had a family member die from cancer, and it was really tough for the whole family to just be sitting around at the hospital waiting for her to pass. She held on for a full week longer than the docs thought she would, and you can't expect someone to just hang out waiting like that.

Much like this situation, when it looked like the end was near, everyone came running. In our case, those who couldn't make it at "the last second" didn't regret it because they'd had time before to say their last goodbyes. But that doesn't mean that they wouldn't have wanted to be there if they could.

crazycoffey

03-26-2009, 04:38 PM

my cynical side says they are exploiting this situation, which I already agree it was dumb of the cop to drag this out, and all that. But you know how somepeople will always play victim. IF she was dying for a while, and this happened, I hope karma comes back around. Just saying....

DaFace

03-26-2009, 04:40 PM

Well apparently they could because that's why they were on the way to the hospital. And let's see, he's a football player, it's the offseason, and do you think the Mrs has a job? It's not like they had somewhere else to be. There is simply no excuse for him running the red light in first place.

I hope you never have to go through the situation then. I'm afraid you'd likely find it to be a bit different than you expect.

Bugeater

03-26-2009, 04:41 PM

Even if you have some clue, like "she probably won't make it through the rest of the week", it's still tough to spend the whole time in the hospital waiting. I recently had a family member die from cancer, and it was really tough for the whole family to just be sitting around at the hospital waiting for her to pass. She held on for a full week longer than the docs thought she would, and you can't expect someone to just hang out waiting like that.

Much like this situation, when it looked like the end was near, everyone came running. In our case, those who couldn't make it at "the last second" didn't regret it because they'd had time before to say their last goodbyes. But that doesn't mean that they wouldn't have wanted to be there if they could.
If that's the situation, you should be aware that by leaving you're running the risk of not being there when it happens and be ready to accept it if it does. It does not entitle you to break traffic laws.