Larry Johnson loses Grievance

[Frankie]

Per profootballtalk.com

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/04/06/larry-johnson-loses-grievance-on-future-guaranteed-salaries/

Larry Johnson Loses Grievance On Future Guaranteed Salaries
Posted by Mike Florio on April 6, 2009, 1:11 p.m. EDT

The good news for NFL players coming out of last week’s combined Plaxico Burress/Larry Johnson grievance is that the forfeiture of signing bonus money has been significantly limited.

The bad news for NFL players is that Special Master Richard Burbank upheld player contract language invalidating future guaranteed base salaries.

Per a league source, Johnson’s grievance failed as to the question of whether the Chiefs are permitted to erase $3.5 million in guaranteed base salary due in 2009 and $250,000 in guaranteed base salary due in 2010 based on Johnson’s one-game suspension in 2008 for violation of the personal conduct policy.

With the future guaranteed payments now off the books, the Chiefs are expected to cut or trade Johnson.

Meanwhile, we’re told that Johnson’s grievance prevailed as to the partial forfeiture of his signing bonus allocation applicable to 2008, for the same reasons that the Burress grievance prevailed on that point — according to Burbank, suspensions don’t trigger a forfeiture of signing bonus money.


(Sorry if repost.)

[bishop_74]

LINK (http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/ljs-grievance-decision-in.html)

April 6, 2009 - Bob Gretz |

Special Master Richard Burbank released his decison Monday on the grievance filed against the Chiefs by the NFL Players Association involving guaranteed money in Larry Johnson’s contract.

Burbank ruled in favor of the Chiefs who removed the guarantee on base salary money for the 2009 and 2010 seasons after Johnson was suspended for one game by NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell. The contract contained specific language that would remove that guarantee. One part of the clause was forfeiture of guaranteed money with an NFL suspension. It does not mean Johnson can’t earn the money by making the team, but it’s no longer a guaranteed payment.

But Burbank did have something in his ruling for Johnson on his signing bonus. At the time of his suspension, L.J. forfeited a pro-rata portion of his signing bonus for missing that game. The Special Master ruled that money could not be taken by the Chiefs.

The question now is just what the Chiefs plans are for Johnson. There have been published reports that if the Chiefs prevailed in the grievance they would release the running back. That’s not necessarily the next logical step, however. Releasing him now wouldn’t accomplish anything but get him out of the building. If that’s what the Chiefs want, then he should be released by sundown. If not, then there is no reason to make a move at this time.

Johnson can also expect further sanction from the Commissioner on the two charges where he pled guilty last month. Goodell said he would revisit the issue after the cases were completed

[crazycoffey]

check it out on snopes first, damnit!!!!

[the Talking Can]

awesome

take that quitter's money

[Frankie]

Any improvement in trade value?

[RustShack]

Burress won his. I still hope we keep LJ, I know this increases the chances of us getting rid of him too...

[Skip Towne]

There is a load of hay leaving town at noon. Be on it.

[SBK]

We should be able to trade him for 6-7 #1 picks I'm sure.

[Chiefaholic]

If the Chiefs can land a high 3rd or better, trade him to the highest bidder outside the AFC West. If teams attempt to low ball us, keep him till an equal replacement is found.

[CoMoChief]

If we can get a 3rd or better for him take it. I could give a shit if he stays in the AFCW or not.

[Coogs]

Any improvement in trade value?

Probably not. Signing bonus would have been on the Chiefs, and not the team who he would be traded to.

[Crush]

He has one hour to get the hell out of town.

[Coogs]

I could give a shit if he stays in the AFCW or not.

Me neither. If we have any kind of interior defense at all, we know it would be 2nd and 8 and then 3rd and 6 if they run on the first two downs.

[chiefs1111]

If we can get a 3rd or better for him take it. I could give a shit if he stays in the AFCW or not.

Nobody is going to give us a 3rd or higher for LJ. We would likely get a 4th rounder at best and even the chances of that are slim,we would probably have to settle for a 5th...

[kcxiv]

Thats what he gets. I dont hate him or anything. I stillt hink he can play at a fairly high level, but he made his own bed.

[Frankie]

We should be able to trade him for 6-7 #1 picks I'm sure.

Or 1 #6-7 pick. I'm not sure which.

[Frankie]

If the Chiefs can land a high 3rd or better, trade him to the highest bidder outside the AFC West. If teams attempt to low ball us, keep him till an equal replacement is found.

For a 3rd or higher I would even trade him to a division rival.

[Pioli Zombie]

Don't let the door spit in your face on the way out Larry
Posted via Mobile Device

[Micjones]

Hopefully he'll stay on with the team or we'll get a 4th Rounder for him.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Larry Johnson is through in KC. If his cap hit just got cut even in half, he's as good as gone. I hate to see it, I know I'm in the minority on that, but it's true. Bye Larry.

[LaChapelle]

If I was a fan of a team in need of a RB. I would have no problem at all giving a conditional 3rd. In fact, I'd be thrilled.

[The Franchise]

Trade him to the Browns for a 4th.

[DeezNutz]

Or 1 #6-7 pick. I'm not sure which.

Yes.

5th-rounder, tops.

There will be more attractive options for teams to draft in rounds 1-4, so why would anyone give that high of a pick for a one-dimensional back who is also a fucking piece of shit in the locker room and in the community?

[Hammock Parties]

Please god no no no no no..........noooooooooooooooo

[Coogs]

Trade him to the Browns for a 4th.

Eagles have 4 5th round picks. But my guess is most teams know he will probably be released, and will proably try and go that route to sign him to their own deal instead of taking on the remaining Chiefs contract minus the signing bonus.

[Mr. Kotter]

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out, Larry.

As long as we get a 3rd Rounder or better in return. That or a 12 pack of imported beer.

80% or better chance of his azz being somewhere else now, I'd say.

[Hammock Parties]

It makes more sense to keep him if he's cheaper now.

We won't find another starting RB as talented this offseason for that money.

[The Franchise]

Eagles have 4 5th round picks. But my guess is most teams know he will probably be released, and will proably try and go that route to sign him to their own deal instead of taking on the remaining Chiefs contract minus the signing bonus.

Works for me. Maybe that will be part of the trade down from #3. :D

Chiefs get:

#21, #28, #53, #145, #149

Eagles get:

#3 and Larry Johnson :rolleyes:

[Bowser]

I can see him going to either Cleveland or Seattle. Cleveland especially, with Mangini's love of play-action.

[DeezNutz]

It makes more sense to keep him if he's cheaper now.

We won't find another starting RB as talented this offseason for that money.

Bullshit.

LJ isn't an elite talent anymore, and what he brings could be filled through the draft.

[Bowser]

Works for me. Maybe that will be part of the trade down from #3. :D

Chiefs get:

#21, #28, #53, #145, #149

Eagles get:

#3 and Larry Johnson :rolleyes:

Sweet. If this doesn't happen you get neg rep, just for making us think it could.

[Buehler445]

Is LJ really worth a 3rd? Seriously? I didn't think he'd be worth that much. Isn't it this year he hits the big 3-0?
Posted via Mobile Device

[LaChapelle]

It makes more sense to keep him if he's cheaper now.

We won't find another starting RB as talented this offseason for that money.

They have money to burn and he showed up to voluntary workouts. Thinking in business terms, I don't see the advantage is cutting him.

[jidar]

We should trade him for 10 maple baseball bats

[DeezNutz]

Is LJ really worth a 3rd? Seriously? I didn't think he'd be worth that much. Isn't it this year he hits the big 3-0?
Posted via Mobile Device

Put your Chiefs glasses back on again, and LJ will then seem much more valuable.

Look at it clearly, and he's worth a medium-sized bag of dicks.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

It makes more sense to keep him if he's cheaper now.

We won't find another starting RB as talented this offseason for that money.

Unfortunately that won't be the case under any circumstances. If we keep him, we pay him all the money. The only way he's cheaper is if he agrees to renegotiate with the Chiefs. I don't think any of us LJ fans are disillusioned enough to believe he'll do that.

He wants to play here now if he can make that money because he knows he's not going to make it anywhere else. If he makes $1 less, he'd rather do it anywhere but with the Chiefs.

[crazycoffey]

Eagles have 4 5th round picks. But my guess is most teams know he will probably be released, and will proably try and go that route to sign him to their own deal instead of taking on the remaining Chiefs contract minus the signing bonus.


but there's no certainty that we ARE cutting him. We just saved alot of money, we can shop him and if we don't like the options available, pioli and hailey go to LJ and say, here's your chance, play for a trade next year.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Put your Chiefs glasses back on again, and LJ will then seem much more valuable.

Look at it clearly, and he's worth a medium-sized bag of dicks.

Curly or natural cut?

[Hammock Parties]

They have money to burn and he showed up to voluntary workouts. Thinking in business terms, I don't see the advantage is cutting him.

Agree completely.

[DeezNutz]

Curly or natural cut?

:D

[Coogs]

Works for me. Maybe that will be part of the trade down from #3. :D

Chiefs get:

#21, #28, #53, #145, #149

Eagles get:

#3 and Larry Johnson :rolleyes:

Could work.

[The Franchise]

Sweet. If this doesn't happen you get neg rep, just for making us think it could.

ROFL

I'll be awaiting the neg rep.

[LaChapelle]

I bet Whiz in Az would like to have him.

[Buehler445]

Put your Chiefs glasses back on again, and LJ will then seem much more valuable.

Look at it clearly, and he's worth a medium-sized bag of dicks.

That's what I was thinking. I would be unconditionally happy if we fleeced someone for a 3rd for LJ.
Posted via Mobile Device

[otherstar]

They have money to burn and he showed up to voluntary workouts. Thinking in business terms, I don't see the advantage is cutting him.

I don't either, at least not this year. Let him play for a trade, who knows how he'll feel playing under Haley and Pioli.

[orange]

It makes more sense to keep him if he's cheaper now.

We won't find another starting RB as talented this offseason for that money.

Unfortunately that won't be the case under any circumstances. If we keep him, we pay him all the money. The only way he's cheaper is if he agrees to renegotiate with the Chiefs. I don't think any of us LJ fans are disillusioned enough to believe he'll do that.

He wants to play here now if he can make that money because he knows he's not going to make it anywhere else. If he makes $1 less, he'd rather do it anywhere but with the Chiefs.

But if they keep him, he's NOT cheaper. He still has the same contract, just not guaranteed - plus the Chiefs have to pay him back money they deducted last year for the suspended game. IF Larry stays on, he will cost the Chiefs MORE than if they had simply honored the contract and not filed the grievance. :doh!:

[Mr. Flopnuts]

They have money to burn and he showed up to voluntary workouts. Thinking in business terms, I don't see the advantage is cutting him.

We can definitely afford the salary, and the bonus. I just don't see why you bring the grievance in the first place if you intend on keeping him should you win. I want him on the team this year as much as anyone, but it's time to be realistic now.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

But if they keep him, he's NOT cheaper. He still has the same contract, just not guaranteed - plus the Chiefs have to pay him back money they deducted last year for the suspended game. IF Larry stays on, he will cost the Chiefs MORE than if they had simply honored the contract and not filed the grievance. :doh!:

Exactly. He's as good as gone.

[Kyle DeLexus]

but there's no certainty that we ARE cutting him. We just saved alot of money, we can shop him and if we don't like the options available, pioli and hailey go to LJ and say, here's your chance, play for a trade next year.

How did we save a lot of money? If we cut we save money, if he plays he makes whats in his contract.

[LaChapelle]

We can definitely afford the salary, and the bonus. I just don't see why you bring the grievance in the first place if you intend on keeping him should you win. I want him on the team this year as much as anyone, but it's time to be realistic now.


Realistic?

Is he publicly acting the bitch? Is there even the slimiest chance you could get something for him? Take emotion out of it and you should keep him until proven otherwise.

[DeezNutz]

Is he publicly acting the bitch?

At this very moment? Probably...

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Realistic?

Is he publicly acting the bitch? Is there even the slimiest chance you could get something for him? Take emotion out of it and you should keep him until proven otherwise.

You get millions of dollars by cutting him. You also get less risk in his off the field trysts for the next season. What's the distraction going to be this year? It's risk vs. reward and I can't think of anyone that would sign LJ to the contract the Chiefs did back in 2007, today. So that being said, as completely emotionless as possible, would you honor his contract right now if you didn't have too? Will Scott Pioli?

[acesn8s]

but there's no certainty that we ARE cutting him. We just saved alot of money, we can shop him and if we don't like the options available, pioli and hailey go to LJ and say, here's your chance, play for a trade next year.I could see that but I don't think that they want anyone tearing down what they are trying to build.

[crazycoffey]

I could see that but I don't think that they want anyone tearing down what they are trying to build.

but it was just in arguement for the cutting him stance in negotiations for trading him. I agree they don't want him, it's just not smart to give him away, right? Unless the wheels have really fallen off and they just cut him.

Really I'm ok eitherway, stay and be a team player, or get cut. That's my personal stance.

[LaChapelle]

You get millions of dollars by cutting him. You also get less risk in his off the field trysts for the next season. What's the distraction going to be this year? It's risk vs. reward and I can't think of anyone that would sign LJ to the contract the Chiefs did back in 2007, today. So that being said, as completely emotionless as possible, would you honor his contract right now if you didn't have too? Will Scott Pioli?

As far as I can tell the money is going to either be spent or wasted. Unless there are conditions in his contract that have to be met on some bonuses. You can recoup next year.

[kcxiv]

I can see him going to either Cleveland or Seattle. Cleveland especially, with Mangini's love of play-action.

Isnt Jamal Lewis in Cleveland still? he's basically the same as LJ. He may even be able to block. lol

[orange]

We can definitely afford the salary, and the bonus. I just don't see why you bring the grievance in the first place if you intend on keeping him should you win. I want him on the team this year as much as anyone, but it's time to be realistic now.

They filed the grievance not to save money, but to get back their leverage.

"Larry - act up again, and we've got something for you."

http://www.thewilbournegroup.com/Specialties/AshNewWithHoles.jpg

[LaChapelle]

As far as I can tell the money is going to either be spent or wasted. Unless there are conditions in his contract that have to be met on some bonuses. You can recoup next year.


He could actually help them for being fined for being under the cap limit.

[crazycoffey]

How did we save a lot of money? If we cut we save money, if he plays he makes whats in his contract.


but when do we HAVE to make that decision? The grievance bought us time if we want to trade him/ or cut him. We essentially could have just saved money from next year if he plays this year. We just opened up several options. Plus it could be a "fire" for LJ, to play mad again.

So if there's no trade options this year, we pay him this years salary. But from winning the grievance we then could be in the same position next year. He does poorly, he's cut. he does very well, he's traded or resigned. Either way we would only HAVE to pay him for this year, not next. Winning the Grievance was awesome in dealing with this diaper wearing primadonna..

[kcsam07]

i dont think this means lj is for sure gone. i really dont think this changes the way the chiefs feel about him me personally im on the fence i like larry as a player but as a person hes an a-hole

[crazycoffey]

As far as I can tell the money is going to either be spent or wasted. Unless there are conditions in his contract that have to be met on some bonuses. You can recoup next year.


winning the grievance means we don't have to pay him this year or next year, we can cut / trade him without cap penelties.

[sedated]

<img src="http://www.theboxset.com/images/reviewcaptures/612capture_tombstone03.jpg">

[crazycoffey]

after reading back, let me re-explain what I'm trying to say;

we won the grievance so we don't have to pay him 3.5 mil this year / not 250K next year. We just opened the door for a trade. If teams try to leverage a probable "cut" and wait for him to be on the free market, we can still keep him. Try putting a fire under his butt to perform better. Then next year we can trade him, or keep him for only 250K (if he bratts out in the middle of the year, say) and in two years we could even franchise him, so his ass is still ours and he's wasting precious years to make a name for himself. So we have all the power for trade negotiations THIS YEAR!

I think the grievance was just for leverage, not for money. We'll know for sure very soon. Trade talks come up or he's quiet and practicing it was a leverage move. If he's cut, then it was for money/cutting off dead weight.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Isn't LJ due 3 million that KC had been withholding pending this decision? Maybe I'm way off, but that was my understanding of the situation.

[LaChapelle]

after reading back, let me re-explain what I'm trying to say;

we won the grievance so we don't have to pay him 3.5 mil this year / not 250K next year. We just opened the door for a trade. If teams try to leverage a probable "cut" and wait for him to be on the free market, we can still keep him. Try putting a fire under his butt to perform better. Then next year we can trade him, or keep him for only 250K (if he bratts out in the middle of the year, say) and in two years we could even franchise him, so his ass is still ours and he's wasting precious years to make a name for himself. So we have all the power for trade negotiations THIS YEAR!

I think the grievance was just for leverage, not for money.


Agree. Cap may be a problem down the road. Right now it's like unused vacation time. Use it or lose it.

[orange]

LINK (http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/ljs-grievance-decision-in.html)

April 6, 2009 - Bob Gretz |

Special Master Richard Burbank released his decison Monday on the grievance filed against the Chiefs by the NFL Players Association involving guaranteed money in Larry Johnson’s contract.

Burbank ruled in favor of the Chiefs who removed the guarantee on base salary money for the 2009 and 2010 seasons after Johnson was suspended for one game by NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell. The contract contained specific language that would remove that guarantee. One part of the clause was forfeiture of guaranteed money with an NFL suspension. It does not mean Johnson can’t earn the money by making the team, but it’s no longer a guaranteed payment.

But Burbank did have something in his ruling for Johnson on his signing bonus. At the time of his suspension, L.J. forfeited a pro-rata portion of his signing bonus for missing that game. The Special Master ruled that money could not be taken by the Chiefs.

The question now is just what the Chiefs plans are for Johnson. There have been published reports that if the Chiefs prevailed in the grievance they would release the running back. That’s not necessarily the next logical step, however. Releasing him now wouldn’t accomplish anything but get him out of the building. If that’s what the Chiefs want, then he should be released by sundown. If not, then there is no reason to make a move at this time.

Johnson can also expect further sanction from the Commissioner on the two charges where he pled guilty last month. Goodell said he would revisit the issue after the cases were completed

After re-reading this, it's clear that JOHNSON filed the grievance, not the Chiefs. KC was already in the clear as to 2008/2009 being not guaranteed; this ruling just reaffirmed that. Johnson did win on his smaller point and got back money from last year.

In other words, there's no more reason to cut LJ today than there was yesterday.

I don't see where Florio's spin in the PFT article (that the Chiefs were waiting on this ruling to cut LJ) comes from.

[crazycoffey]

I don't see where Florio's spin in the PFT article (that the Chiefs were waiting on this ruling to cut LJ) comes from.


It said

"There have been published reports that if the Chiefs prevailed in the grievance they would release the running back. That’s not necessarily the next logical step, however. Releasing him now wouldn’t accomplish anything but get him out of the building. If that’s what the Chiefs want, then he should be released by sundown. If not, then there is no reason to make a move at this time."

and that's what started the CP spin....

[Mr. Krab]

We probably just cut him now.

[Bwana]

See ya thug boy.

[Micjones]

I don't think it's a slam dunk that he'll be cut.

If it were that serious to Chiefs brass I think he'd be gone already.

[crazycoffey]

I don't think it's a slam dunk that he'll be cut.

If it were that serious to Chiefs brass I think he'd be gone already.

more than likely

[Micjones]

more than likely

I'm not so sure.
What does the team stand to gain from cutting him?
More salary cap room that they won't be able to spend?

[LaChapelle]

If they want to hate on him for being a malcontent. Send him to Detriot for a pair of Gun's old yellow glasses.

[Mr. Krab]

more than likely
why would they cut him already when they can get some money back from him first?

[PastorMikH]

If the Chiefs winning in the grievance doesn't mean LJ's contact isn't considered void, it might be wise to keep LJ. He'll be really, really angry now and he does his best running when he's angry.

[Frazod]

If the Chiefs winning in the grievance doesn't mean LJ's contact isn't considered void, it might be wise to keep LJ. He'll be really, really angry now and he does his best running when he's angry.

We should try to get our opponents to dress like women. It might improve his blocking.

[crazycoffey]

I'm not so sure.
What does the team stand to gain from cutting him?
More salary cap room that they won't be able to spend?

no,
More than likely = "this" or "I concur with what Micjones just said"

[Micjones]

no,
More than likely = "this" or "I concur with what Micjones just said"

Sorry dude, I'm drowsy.
:D

[crazycoffey]

why would they cut him already when they can get some money back from him first?

that's not what I said, sorry.
But to look at it that way, it would be because Mr. Goodell hasn't ruled on LJ's most recent legal woes. LJ could be looking at missing another game or two....

[Frankie]

Eagles have 4 5th round picks. But my guess is most teams know he will probably be released, and will proably try and go that route to sign him to their own deal instead of taking on the remaining Chiefs contract minus the signing bonus.

It makes more sense to keep him if he's cheaper now.

Hence the incentive for other teams to trade for him as opposed to wait for him to get released.

[Frankie]

As long as we get a 3rd Rounder or better in return.

If we get a 3rd for him I'll celebrate another Norooz right now all over again.

[LaChapelle]

Releasing him would do LJ a favor. Why on God's green earth would they do him a favor?

[Frankie]

but there's no certainty that we ARE cutting him. We just saved alot of money, we can shop him and if we don't like the options available, pioli and hailey go to LJ and say, here's your chance, play for a trade next year.

Excellent post.

[Frankie]

We should try to get our opponents to dress like women. It might improve his blocking.

ROFL
Rep.

[Johnny Vegas]

wwaahhhh LJ's gonna cost us money out of the $57 million we have in cap space! what are we gonna do!!! oooohhhhnoooooozzzzz aaahhhhhhh!!!

[Valiant]

Works for me. Maybe that will be part of the trade down from #3. :D

Chiefs get:

#21, #28, #53, #145, #149

Eagles get:

#3 and Larry Johnson :rolleyes:

What happened to Westbrook??

[Valiant]

Bullshit.

LJ isn't an elite talent anymore, and what he brings could be filled through the draft.

He is a talent when he wants to be, problem is he does not care most of the time unless he gets the perfect size hole to run through..

[acesn8s]

Releasing him would do LJ a favor. Why on God's green earth would they do him a favor?Because it would do the locker room a favor.

[Mecca]

wwaahhhh LJ's gonna cost us money out of the $57 million we have in cap space! what are we gonna do!!! oooohhhhnoooooozzzzz aaahhhhhhh!!!

It's time to get over this...the guy is a complaining douchebag that is never happy about anything, he's also 30 years old now.

It's time to let go he doesn't have 3 good years left he's lucky if he has one.

[DTLB58]

We should trade him for 10 maple baseball bats

Why is Marty coming back to have that softball game in River Falls again? ROFL

[Chiefaholic]

I can't believe the number of people that think LJ has virtually no trade value. I'de guess these are the same people that said Tynes, Sims, Hall, and Green have no value a few years ago as well. If the franchise doesn't get a 3rd AT LEAST I'de be suprised.

[Wa-Z]

Funny..my buddy waited on him last night...LJ left $10 on $85..

[Mecca]

I can't believe the number of people that think LJ has virtually no trade value. I'de guess these are the same people that said Tynes, Sims, Hall, and Green have no value a few years ago as well. If the franchise doesn't get a 3rd AT LEAST I'de be suprised.

Explain to me what team is going to trade for an aging attitude problem running back when they can just draft one who's younger and cheaper without the attitude..

RB is a dime a dozen position.

[orange]

Funny..my buddy waited on him last night...LJ left $10 on $85..

A bad tipper, too. Cut his ass.

[Chiefaholic]

Explain to me what team is going to trade for an aging attitude problem running back when they can just draft one who's younger and cheaper without the attitude..

RB is a dime a dozen position.

Tell that to Chief fans prior to Priest Holmes. Dime a dozen my ass....

[crazycoffey]

Funny..my buddy waited on him last night...LJ left $10 on $85..


I've spent alot of time in that industry, LJ would be readily ignored from then on, if I had waited on him. I'd go spend my time on the regulars that always give a good healthy 20-25%

must be because he lost the grievance???

[Archie Bunker]

I can't believe the number of people that think LJ has virtually no trade value. I'de guess these are the same people that said Tynes, Sims, Hall, and Green have no value a few years ago as well. If the franchise doesn't get a 3rd AT LEAST I'de be suprised.

Considering the market over the years for Edge, Alexander, etc I think you're going to be suprised.

[chiefs1111]

Explain to me what team is going to trade for an aging attitude problem running back when they can just draft one who's younger and cheaper without the attitude..

RB is a dime a dozen position.

Exactly. I think the Chiefs would be lucky to get a 4th round pick for him. I really don't think we could get anything higher than a 5th though if we did move him.

[Mecca]

Tell that to Chief fans prior to Priest Holmes. Dime a dozen my ass....

I'll tell them it everytime if you can't find a RB your organization is completely fucking inept.

And things have changed over say the past 10 years, finding a RB is easy now.

[Hootie]

Funny..my buddy waited on him last night...LJ left $10 on $85..

Ok that's not good by any means but it's not the worst tip in the world...

Technically, you don't tip on tax so that really works out to around 15%...

and maybe the service wasn't great?

Lots of factors could be in play...but that's not a tip I'd bitch about.

[Hootie]

A bad tipper, too. Cut his ass.
Meh.

You'd think he drop a $100 regardless, but maybe the service was shit?

If I get $10 on something less than $100 from any black person, I'm content...I don't care if that sounds racist...it is what it is.

[Hootie]

I've spent alot of time in that industry, LJ would be readily ignored from then on, if I had waited on him. I'd go spend my time on the regulars that always give a good healthy 20-25%

must be because he lost the grievance???

Man, this is total bullshit.

I work in that industry and that's not even that bad...if you're expecting 25% tips from anyone and ignore people who tip less, you're an idiot.

Of course I give the same service to the people who don't tip at all...a lot of people who don't tip properly just don't know, they aren't doing it to be dicks...as long as the people are nice people, I don't give a shit...a lot of people need that $10 a whole lot more than me...

and $10 on $85 (and I assume the $85 is after tax) is pretty standard...because technically the 15% is on the subtotal...

A lot of people double the tax and that's how they leave their tip...

[orange]

Meh.

You'd think he drop a $100 regardless, but maybe the service was shit?


He needed five $1's back to tip the dancer.

[Hootie]

He needed five $1's back to tip the dancer.

Touche.

[Wa-Z]

Ok that's not good by any means but it's not the worst tip in the world...

Technically, you don't tip on tax so that really works out to around 15%...

and maybe the service wasn't great?

Lots of factors could be in play...but that's not a tip I'd bitch about.


Considering he's a multi-millionaire that's a terrible tip...and taxes were probably around $6 making the net total around $79 and 15% of that would be around $12..service is not in question...Sullivans Steak House

[chiefzilla1501]

I can't believe the number of people that think LJ has virtually no trade value. I'de guess these are the same people that said Tynes, Sims, Hall, and Green have no value a few years ago as well. If the franchise doesn't get a 3rd AT LEAST I'de be suprised.

Because no team is going to give that much up for a player they know is going to be cut anyway. The Chiefs have been given a gift and every team knows this.

[crazycoffey]

Man, this is total bullshit.

I work in that industry and that's not even that bad...if you're expecting 25% tips from anyone and ignore people who tip less, you're an idiot.

Of course I give the same service to the people who don't tip at all...a lot of people who don't tip properly just don't know, they aren't doing it to be dicks...as long as the people are nice people, I don't give a shit...a lot of people need that $10 a whole lot more than me...

and $10 on $85 (and I assume the $85 is after tax) is pretty standard...because technically the 15% is on the subtotal...

A lot of people double the tax and that's how they leave their tip...


whatever back at you, when it's a full bar, busy as shit 11pm on a friday night, and the little bitches that always order the carrot cake tini and give you exact change in quarters, nickels and dimes; do not get the same attention as the 28 year old drinking chivas on the rocks and tips 1-2 dollars everytime he orders.

[acasas4]

I don't care where he goes as long as he doesn't stay here.

[EyePod]

awesome

take that quitter's money

I don't understand this. He is not a quitter. He ran amazingly for us last year after he was suspended. He showed up to VOLUNTARY workouts. Must be a quitter. What a bunch of fucking bullshit.

[Micjones]

I'll tell them it everytime if you can't find a RB your organization is completely fucking inept.

And things have changed over say the past 10 years, finding a RB is easy now.

Finding a serviceable Runningback is fairly easy to do in today's NFL.
Finding an elite back isn't quite as easy.
There are maybe only 10 of them league-wide.

I believe Johnson can still be an elite back in the right situation.
And hopefully that's what we're building this off-season.

[EyePod]

Explain to me what team is going to trade for an aging attitude problem running back when they can just draft one who's younger and cheaper without the attitude..

RB is a dime a dozen position.

I agree. But I don't think we should get rid of him. We have the cap room, put him to use. We can always dump him next year. I never understood why teams pay so much for RB's. The Donkos showed year in and year out, it's not the RB that's the important part of the puzzle.

[wild1]

he's as good as gone. they were silent and waiting for all this to play out.

if you think LJ had a bad attitude, was disliked by teammates, and was a locker room cancer before, I'll bet it doesn't improve now that the team has won back all this guaranteed money.

Gretz's conclusion is wrong though. The team doesn't necessarily want to release him by sundown if that is the plan.

The Chiefs should, and i think they will, attempt to dangle him for whatever some sucker might give. maybe we can get a 4th or 5th round pick.

In any case, it's extremely doubtful he will play a down for this team again, which is a step in the right direction.

[EyePod]

Finding a serviceable Runningback is fairly easy to do in today's NFL.
Finding an elite back isn't quite as easy.
There are maybe only 10 of them league-wide.

I believe Johnson can still be an elite back in the right situation.
And hopefully that's what we're building this off-season.

I think he's still great, but his shittiness at the pass really hurts his value. Guys like Stephen Jackson and LT are so much better because of their added value as a receiver (obviously when they're not injured).

[Crush]

Tell that to Chief fans prior to Priest Holmes. Dime a dozen my ass....


Please see the Donks for further evidence.

[Crush]

Herm better watch his back when Larry hits the unemployment line.

[Crush]

he's as good as gone. they were silent and waiting for all this to play out.

if you think LJ had a bad attitude, was disliked by teammates, and was a locker room cancer before, I'll bet it doesn't improve now that the team has won back all this guaranteed money.

Gretz's conclusion is wrong though. The team doesn't necessarily want to release him by sundown if that is the plan.

The Chiefs should, and i think they will, attempt to dangle him for whatever some sucker might give. maybe we can get a 4th or 5th round pick.

In any case, it's extremely doubtful he will play a down for this team again, which is a step in the right direction.


:clap:

ATTENTION EVERYONE: This is a team sport. Primadonnas are no longer wanted at the new Arrowhead. You either play as a team or GTFO.

[Crush]

I will say this as well. Tony better STFU and stop his self-absorbed BS or he will also find himself on the cutting block.

[Micjones]

I think he's still great, but his shittiness at the pass really hurts his value. Guys like Stephen Jackson and LT are so much better because of their added value as a receiver (obviously when they're not injured).

I think far too much is made of his ineffectiveness as a pass-catcher.
I don't buy it.

He has a career yard per catch average of well over 9.

He hasn't been asked to do that as much as Holmes was.
When he has been called on he's been effective there.

Certainly he doesn't block for shit though.

[Micjones]

I will say this as well. Tony better STFU and stop his self-absorbed BS or he will also find himself on the cutting block.

Yeah, we'll teach those self-serving bastards by robbing an already volatile offense of more weapons.
:rolleyes:

[OnTheWarpath15]

I think far too much is made of his ineffectiveness as a pass-catcher.
I don't buy it.

He has a career yard per catch average of well over 9.

He hasn't been asked to do that as much as Holmes was.
When he has been called on he's been effective there.

Certainly he doesn't block for shit though.

That's the thing, mic.

When he DOES catch the ball, he's effective.

But I'd love to see the number of drops he's had.

[Micjones]

That's the thing, mic.

When he DOES catch the ball, he's effective.

But I'd love to see the number of drops he's had.

He's had some drops to be sure, but let's not pretend he hasn't also made things happen catching the rock.

[Crush]

Yeah, we'll teach those self-serving bastards by robbing an already volatile offense of more weapons.
:rolleyes:


When you want to change the culture of a team, you must either get rid of or change the dynamics of the team leadership. I am tired of this franchise catering to players. That kind of attitude is the reason why this franchise has won 0 playoff games since January 16th, 1994.

[Johnny Vegas]

I think all you guys are missing something. This is just a football game with players. Its our fault these guys get paid the amount they do. We buy the seats, the games on tv, the merchandise online/at games/in stores. Money is louder than words so if you really don't want to see these players get the money you think they don't deserve then quit watching/supporting the game itself.

[Crush]

I think all you guys are missing something. This is just a football game with players. Its our fault these guys get paid the amount they do. We buy the seats, the games on tv, the merchandise online/at games/in stores. Money is louder than words so if you really don't want to see these players get the money you think they don't deserve then quit watching/supporting the game itself.


It is not about the money. I just do not want these jackasses on my football team.

[Johnny Vegas]

It is not about the money. I just do not want these jackasses on my football team.

well they're just players who are only human. The times of players fearing coaches are over with because of the million dollar contract.

[Micjones]

When you want to change the culture of a team, you must either get rid of or change the dynamics of the team leadership.

Understood, but to think there will ever be a lockerroom full of guys like Will Shields is to be dishonest with the dynamic of today's NFL.

I am tired of this franchise catering to players. That kind of attitude is the reason why this franchise has won 0 playoff games since January 16th, 1994.

Even under the last administration I can't say Chiefs brass CATERED to players.

Edwards did massage players a bit more than, say, Vermeil...
But that's just who he is as a coach.

The reason we haven't won playoff games since 1994 is currently vacationing somewhere on an island.

It's not about attitude. It's about how this franchise was run.

[tonyetony]

I will say this as well. Tony better STFU and stop his self-absorbed BS or he will also find himself on the cutting block.

If the Chiefs plan on trading Tony G then I hope they package LJ with him to someone that has a lot of draft picks that need a RB and a tight end. Philly might be willing to deal before the draft but most teams are going to stand pat until after the draft at this point.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Edwards did massage players a bit more than, say, Vermeil...
But that's just who he is as a coach.


And everyone knows, Dick loves the massage! That really says something about Herman.

[the Talking Can]

I don't understand this. He is not a quitter. He ran amazingly for us last year after he was suspended. He showed up to VOLUNTARY workouts. Must be a quitter. What a bunch of ****ing bullshit.

he's a selfish quitter

he won't block

he pouts

he was in trouble several times for being late, which shows disrespect to the coach and your teammates...

he has never - EVER - given a shit about the team...he is absolutely part of the problem with the culture of this franchise...can't wait till he is gone

[DeezNutz]

he's a selfish quitter

he won't block

he pouts

he was in trouble several times for being late, which shows disrespect to the coach and your teammates...

he has never - EVER - given a shit about the team...he is absolutely part of the problem with the culture of this franchise...can't wait till he is gone

Indeed.

[Wa-Z]

whatever back at you, when it's a full bar, busy as shit 11pm on a friday night, and the little bitches that always order the carrot cake tini and give you exact change in quarters, nickels and dimes; do not get the same attention as the 28 year old drinking chivas on the rocks and tips 1-2 dollars everytime he orders.

I think every rational person agrees..if not you're just plain stupid lol..(Hootie)

[wild1]

he's a selfish quitter

he won't block

he pouts

he was in trouble several times for being late, which shows disrespect to the coach and your teammates...

he has never - EVER - given a shit about the team...he is absolutely part of the problem with the culture of this franchise...can't wait till he is gone

Carl, Herm and, Larry Johnson ARE the old culture.

The old culture was an alternating cycle of mediocrity and futility. A culture of failure, coddling of star players, double standards, cronyism, underachievement, complacency.


It is understandable that some people have separation anxiety from the Chiefs organization they knew and loved and were constantly being reassured was on top of the situation.

Wait, no it's not.

[Coogs]

If the Chiefs plan on trading Tony G then I hope they package LJ with him to someone that has a lot of draft picks that need a RB and a tight end. Philly might be willing to deal before the draft but most teams are going to stand pat until after the draft at this point.

I could see this going until draft day with Philadelphia. They probably would want to make sure the top 2 LT's don't go off the board at #1 and #2 before they make the trade up that high.

And from what I understand, the money to LJ is only saved by the Chiefs if he is cut or traded. If he plays for the Chiefs, he gets the money. If that is correct, there is really no reason to release LJ before the draft. See if you can get some value by a trade. And also see if a 1st string RB can be drafted to replace LJ before he is just let go.

Hedge your bets so to speak, and keep all options open for now.

[Hootie]

Considering he's a multi-millionaire that's a terrible tip...and taxes were probably around $6 making the net total around $79 and 15% of that would be around $12..service is not in question...Sullivans Steak House

So by this logic I should be tipping like 5% because I don't have jack shit for money...but I tip 20-30% every time because I'm a good tipper...some people tip well, some people don't...$10 on $79...lets just say it could be a whole lot worse...and that's really not anything to scoff at.

[Hootie]

whatever back at you, when it's a full bar, busy as shit 11pm on a friday night, and the little bitches that always order the carrot cake tini and give you exact change in quarters, nickels and dimes; do not get the same attention as the 28 year old drinking chivas on the rocks and tips 1-2 dollars everytime he orders.

Bartending is totally different.

You can ignore anyone you want and still make a shit ton of money what it's busy...so yeah, you're right...if I was bartending and the bitches weren't tipping, I'm going to them as little as possible.

[ChiTown]

he's a selfish quitter

he won't block

he pouts

he was in trouble several times for being late, which shows disrespect to the coach and your teammates...

he has never - EVER - given a shit about the team...he is absolutely part of the problem with the culture of this franchise...can't wait till he is gone

ftw

[Hootie]

by the way, rumor on the street is, Tiger Woods doesn't tip.

A golfer doesn't tip? Golfers are suppose to be the BEST tippers...everything you do at a golf club involves tipping...

[Frankie]

And from what I understand, the money to LJ is only saved by the Chiefs if he is cut or traded.

According to the NFL Network, you understand correctly.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

So by this logic I should be tipping like 5% because I don't have jack shit for money...but I tip 20-30% every time because I'm a good tipper...some people tip well, some people don't...$10 on $79...lets just say it could be a whole lot worse...and that's really not anything to scoff at.

I agree. But then, the only time I waited tables was in MO for 2.14 an hour. It's still hard not to make big money working in Branson during their 8 month season.