Todd Haley is a MF'in prick

[LaChapelle]

WHB610 is giving him hell. No Neal Jones, did he get the ax?

Rumor is Haley called in Will Franklin and told him he was a marked man. He was one of "Herm's guys." Rode him so hard at the voluntary work outs that he asked for his release and it was granted.

I'm not having that big of a problem with this.

[gblowfish]

Yeah. How DARE him give guys a hard time that won TWO WHOLE GAMES last year...

[DeezNutz]

Rode him so hard at the voluntary work outs that he asked for he's release and it was granted.

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/1406/wambulance0eo2sf.jpg

[Brock]

So what's the problem?

[keg in kc]

We've had huggable grandfatherly coaches for almost 10 years.

Change is good.

[chop]

Most of the players on the team can be considered "Herm's guys". This rumor doesn't make sense.

[Archie Bunker]

Finally, a Front Office with balls.

[Scorp]

All hail Haley mother bitches!

[58-4ever]

I agree. Too bad Krumrie wasn't a marked man

[RealSNR]

If that's true, then good for Haley. What's more though, is it shows how big of a fucking pussy Will Franklin is.

Here's a coach who KNOWS WRs for crying out loud. And just because he's in your face making you feel like shit, you want out?

http://www.capitalareateamsports.com/dpmjunk/curlybill.jpg

[jimhitter]

This seems like the Parcells approach to coaching. This usually upsets modern day, spoon fed players. Players will bitch, and in comes the "players coach".

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Good. Fuck anyone that can't take the heat. Fucking pussies. This is the NFL.

[Crush]

This confirms it. The majority of this team are pussies.

[keg in kc]

No Neal Jones did he get the ax?They rebranded.

The "New" 610sports brought in somebody to pair with Twibell in the morning drive, moved Nick Wright from evenings to 9 am, and Chris and Cowboy from 9 am to the afternoon drive.

[raybec 4]

610 fuckin eats dick, those guys will just make it up as they go along. I'm not saying this isn't true, just take it with a huge grain of salt.

[ModSocks]

If he requested release, then he ain't tough enough. That simple. He must not of heard Pioli's quotes

[Fritz88]

I think Franklin's release was a bad move. But I am going to ride with Todd and Scott just like I rode with others before.

Time will only tell.

And this

We've had huggable grandfatherly coaches for almost 10 years.

Change is good.

[Mojo Jojo]

Neil was "reassigned" new duties. I guess that means he no longer is a host but will get a check until his contract expires.

Good for Todd...I think there will be a lot of turnover in the next few months.

[LaChapelle]

BB is no teddy bear. Just ask Tony G.

[Mr. Arrowhead]

LMAO, Franklin is soft anyways, no wonder this team couldnt do shit in the 4th quarter, its because Herm put together a team full of soft pussies.

[SBK]

What kind of a 2nd year player who didn't do a thing actually asks for his release from a team?

I'm going with BS on this one.

[Crush]

Yep, Herm put this team of soft pussies together because that was what he was familiar with. Herm was the biggest and softest pussy of them all.

[Buzz]

If he had run his routes right maybe he wouldnt have had to take all those extra laps.

Signed,

Todd :harumph:

[Frankie]

Wasn't Franklin even worth being used as deal sweetener in another player's trade? That's the only question I have about the release.

[raybec 4]

22 guys off the street bitches.

[T-post Tom]

610 ****in eats dick, those guys will just make it up as they go along. I'm not saying this isn't true, just take it with a huge grain of salt.

610 has got into the habit of baiting listeners with fake info. Piss people off and it generates calls. Example: A while back, the night guy had an alleged email that denigrated Bill Self and said that he was not a good coach. He read it over and over, pushing it until he got calls. It was relentless.

Seriously, if there was such an idiotic email, why would you give this kind of stupidity a platform; other than to inflame people & generate calls? But the more he talked, the more obvious it was that the email was fictitious. Bush league antics in my opinion. I no longer listen to 610 unless I want to check on a Royals game while in the car.

[DeezNutz]

Wasn't Franklin even worth being used as deal sweetener in another player's trade? That's the only question I have about the release.

We're starved for WR depth and our coaches clearly didn't think he was worth much.

That should answer your question.

[T-post Tom]

What kind of a 2nd year player who didn't do a thing actually asks for his release from a team?

I'm going with BS on this one.


THIS.

[Crush]

Wasn't Franklin even worth being used as deal sweetener in another player's trade? That's the only question I have about the release.


They did try to trade him, but Franklin was a Shamwow that soaked up too much pussy juice.

[Micjones]

What kind of a 2nd year player who didn't do a thing actually asks for his release from a team?

I'm going with BS on this one.

My sentiments exactly.

He's a 4th Round pick who had no assurances other teams would be interested.

Just doesn't make sense.

[Mr. Arrowhead]

But it just goes to show you how soft Herm were on the players if this is true. My god Franklin couldnt even hand Involuntary Workouts, how would he handle Training Camp?

[Otter]

LMAO, Franklin is soft anyways, no wonder this team couldnt do shit in the 4th quarter, its because Herm put together a team full of soft pussies.

But Herm was voted one of the most like coaches in the NFL.

Gotta wonder why huh?

[Micjones]

But Herm was voted one of the most like coaches in the NFL.

Gotta wonder why huh?

Because he's a good man.

Being a good man doesn't make you a good coach.
Being a bad coach doesn't make you a bad man.

[TommyHawk69]

Unless you are a Mizzou homer who ever really heard anything about franklin before he was drafted by the Chiefs? Who cares he didn't do anything.

[Iowanian]

I could take quite a few ass chewings for 2nd year earnings of a 4th round draft pick....

[Mr. Krab]

There were rumors of Haley kinda being an asshole. I wasn't particularly happy when he was hired. Whatever it takes to win, i guess.

[bowener]

I like this! It will make all the players on our team into MEN.

If they survive the offseason they will feel like the accomplished something. River Falls wont feel like a fucking kiddy camp this year.

[The Franchise]

I could take quite a few ass chewings for 2nd year earnings of a 4th round draft pick....

I'm sure I got worse ass chewings during Basic Training then Franklin did from Haley.

[Iowanian]

I've taken ass chewings for $3/hr when I was 12 years old that would make grown men blush.



You got your ass chewed in basics because you were a dis-GUSTIN' Fatbody private pyle." If God would wanted you over that obstacle, he'd have 'miracle'd your ass over it!!!!"

[kcxiv]

lol Will was put through the first test and failed. Glad to see he was the example. Sometimes it happens.

[Mr. Arrowhead]

Haley-"Your a worthless excuse for a human being, go ahead and cry your Hermie cant save you now you ****ing pussy"

Franklin":deevee:" "I cant take it anymore, this hardknocks stuff isnt for me, Will Franklin"

[raybec 4]

I'm sure I got worse ass chewings during Basic Training then Franklin did from Haley.

Yep, I probably take worse ass chewings now for 20 percent of Franklins salary.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

This was expected. Parcells is Haley's mentor. Of course he's gonna be a hard ass.

[TommyHawk69]

Yep, I probably take worse ass chewings now for 20 percent of Franklins salary.

That is the sad part most of us regular folks would kill for what these players make.

[LaChapelle]

From a Tiger to a Lion, in paperback. Now at Walgreen's.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Will Franklin is no Clifford Franklin

[TommyHawk69]

Will Franklin is no Clifford Franklin

Nice....This

[CoMoChief]

LOL what a pussy.

My dad used to cuss yell and scream at my ass during basketball season. It got to the point where he started inventing curse words.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

That is the sad part most of us regular folks would kill for what these players make.

LOL I love how these guys whine about how they have to "feed their family" when renegotiating or negotiating a contract. Please give me a fucking break.

[Otter]

Because he's a good man.

Being a good man doesn't make you a good coach.
Being a bad coach doesn't make you a bad man.

Being a liked man, a good coach or a bad coach doesn't make you a good man either.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

Good. Fuck anyone that can't take the heat. Fucking pussies. This is the NFL.


good thing he never posted on CP. He would have been suicidal after taking a n00b bashing.

[Fish]

If you didn't know Haley was a prick before this.... you weren't paying attention.

But it's perfectly acceptable as long as he still gets the job done. A lot of pricks are good at what they do.....

[orange]

I have a discordant note to strike here. These were VOLUNTARY workouts. Wouldn't Haley's wrath have been better directed at someone who DIDN'T show up?

[Warrior5]

Somebody's lyin'.

[raybec 4]

If you didn't know Haley was a prick before this.... you weren't paying attention.

But it's perfectly acceptable as long as he still gets the job done. A lot of pricks are good at what they do.....

I don't give a fuck if he ass rapes nuns if he wins a championship.

[Fish]

I don't give a **** if he ass rapes nuns if he wins a championship.

I mean.... who hasn't....

[raybec 4]

I mean.... who hasn't....

I'm sayin' ....right?

[RINGLEADER]

We've had huggable grandfatherly coaches for almost 10 years.

Change is good.

This times the multiplier of your choice.

[TommyHawk69]

I don't give a **** if he ass rapes nuns if he wins a championship.

That is what saturdays are for!

[Buehler445]

I have a discordant note to strike here. These were VOLUNTARY workouts. Wouldn't Haley's wrath have been better directed at someone who DIDN'T show up?

I don't know if it was through the whole workout period, but there were only 2 guys not there.

And if he was bitching about Franklin not being in respectable shape, that is very valid IMO.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Fish]

I'm sayin' ....right?

High Five!

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/3194/borat24822299.jpg

[Chiefs Pantalones]

Speaking of pussies, Plummer is on Rome right now and he's whining at how Shanahan wanted players to be perfect and pushed them too hard. He said Shanahan sucked the fun out of the game for him. He said he was too relentless in wanting positive results. LMAO

[raybec 4]

Speaking of pussies, Plummer is on Rome right now and he's whining at how Shanahan wanted players to be perfect and pushed them too hard. He said Shanahan sucked the fun out of the game for him. He said he was too relentless in wanting positive results. LMAO

Stick to handball you touchy feely homo, NTTAWWT

[Spott]

I love how everyone is ready to jump on a guy because a bunch of radio hacks started a rumor that probably has as much merit as WPI.

[tomahawk kid]

If this is coming from Chris and Cowboy, and would put it on par with something from Nick Athan.

Those guys are idiots.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Who's gives a shit, he's gone.

[Bowser]

Does anyone think the Lions would rush to sign this guy if he went all bitchbag and told the coaches he didn't like working hard? Retarted.

[raybec 4]

Does anyone think the Lions would rush to sign this guy if he went all bitchbag and told the coaches he didn't like working hard? Retarted.

There were several teams who tried to claim him, obviously they didn't have the good sense to call 610 before they tried to pick him up...dumbasses.

[Bowser]

There were several teams who tried to claim him, obviously they didn't have the good sense to call 610 before they tried to pick him up...dumbasses.

Their loss, the dipshitzz.

[King_Chief_Fan]

If this is coming from Chris and Cowboy, and would put it on par with something from Nick "Assclown" Athan.

Those guys are idiots.

Bingo!

The space camp type of football camp is long gone. No softies will survive. I don't mind if you have to sacrifice someone to get the message across. NEXT?

[King_Chief_Fan]

You know, this is all real simple.

The coach lets you know what he expects.

He lets you know when you ain't cutting it.

He cuts your behind and sends you out the door because he wasted enough time with you.

He made it known he wants hard workers, smart workers and players that do what you ask them to do.

That is simple to me.

See you Franklin or any other softie who misses thier Hermy.

[Brock]

Does anyone think the Lions would rush to sign this guy if he went all bitchbag and told the coaches he didn't like working hard? Retarted.

The Lions hired Gunther Cunningham. Gunther Cunningham.

[Stewie]

Franklin was a very good college player except for some drops. That doesn't translate to the NFL. Why is anyone concerned over a guy who wasn't much more than a practice WR? I applaud Haley for drawing the line between what it takes to win and popularity. We've had enough of "player's coach, crappy seasons."

[raybec 4]

I guess Haley wasn't ready to keep Jeff Webb Jr. on the tit.

[Tiger's Fan]

LOL what a pussy.

My dad used to cuss yell and scream at my ass during basketball season. It got to the point where he started inventing curse words.

He should have used some of that energy to beat some sense into you instead.

[mlyonsd]

The Lions hired Gunther Cunningham. Gunther Cunningham.

:LOL: This deserves repeating. Gunther Cunningham.

[mlyonsd]

Telling Franklin he's one of Herm's guys is way nicer than "You just plain suck".

I wouldn't call that being a prick at all.

[Red Beans]

:LOL: This deserves repeating. Gunther Cunningham.

Not sure what this means, but if you're implying what I think...Gunther lost his hard ass stature when he got canned and we brought him back. They must have been feeding him vagina meal down there in TN because he sure wasn't the hard nosed SOB when he came back...just one man's opinion...

[TRR]

This approach that Haley is taking is going to all boarder around wins. If he wins, he can be the biggeast prick to ever walk the earth and nobody will care. If he doesn't win, he won't even make it out of year two.

Haley will be under the utmost pressure with the way he acts. If it results in wins, he will get away with it. If not....

IMO, it's not the right way to build a positive culture in an organization, but only time will tell.
Posted via Mobile Device

[The Bad Guy]

This approach that Haley is taking is going to all boarder around wins. If he wins, he can be the biggeast prick to ever walk the earth and nobody will care. If he doesn't win, he won't even make it out of year two.

Haley will be under the utmost pressure with the way he acts. If it results in wins, he will get away with it. If not....

IMO, it's not the right way to build a positive culture in an organization, but only time will tell.
Posted via Mobile Device

Yeah, we should really keep powdering the asses of all the athletes on the team. That really worked the last 8 years.

[DTLB58]

WHB610 is giving him hell. No Neal Jones, did he get the ax?

Rumor is Haley called in Will Franklin and told him he was a marked man. He was one of "Herm's guys." Rode him so hard at the voluntary work outs that he asked for his release and it was granted.

I'm not having that big of a problem with this.

Guess that means LJ,Gonzo,Waters, ect are all gone then too. :eek:

[DTLB58]

Sounds like he is taking a Parcells type attitude in coaching....Me Like :D

[DTLB58]

Yeah, we should really keep powdering the asses of all the athletes on the team. That really worked the last 8 years.

Yah, There probably isn't 2 men considered more "Players coaches" than Herm and DV.

Change things up. I like it. :)

[DTLB58]

:LOL: This deserves repeating. Gunther Cunningham.

This, is what I thought of the second I got the text the Lions signed Franklin.

If Gun stood up for him, They can have him.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

:LOL: This deserves repeating. Gunther Cunningham.

We do deserve to laugh over Detroit taking Gun, but the Cardinal fans are probably doing the same at us over signing Pendergast.

[FringeNC]

The day Herm got fired, Tony Gonzalez was interviewed and complained that some rookies were unprofessional and took off early from practice, and Herm let them get away with it. I'm guessing Haley has heard the same stories and that Franklin was one of those guys...

[oldandslow]

We do deserve to laugh over Detroit taking Gun, but the Cardinal fans are probably doing the same at us over signing Pendergast.

AZ did make it to the big dance, with Pendergast. Gunther...not so much.

[Craash]

610 ****in eats dick, those guys will just make it up as they go along. I'm not saying this isn't true, just take it with a huge grain of salt.

Isn't that an oxymoron? Shouldn't it be: "take it with a a big block of salt - like what cattle lick!"?

[Bowser]

The day Herm got fired, Tony Gonzalez was interviewed and complained that some rookies were unprofessional and took off early from practice, and Herm let them get away with it. I'm guessing Haley has heard the same stories and that Franklin was one of those guys...

I remember that, now that you bring it up. Heh.

[TEX]

Yeah. How DARE him give guys a hard time that won TWO WHOLE GAMES last year...

Exactly. Probably wanted to see what Franklin was made of. Guess he found out. LOL!

[Pasta Little Brioni]

AZ did make it to the big dance, with Pendergast. Gunther...not so much.

You are right and they did play well enough to make a Superbowl, but they have had some pretty sorry rankings under Clancy.

[TRR]

Yeah, we should really keep powdering the asses of all the athletes on the team. That really worked the last 8 years.

I'm not saying that nor did my post imply that. I'm simply saying that if your going to alienate players (like the rumors state in Arizona, along with his supposed treatment of Brian Waters, his rough demeanor with Franklin, and his unlikeable attitude in the media that may wear thin) then you damn well better W I N. If not, you won't be around long.

Parcells can get away with that because he is proven. Belicheck can get away with that because he is proven. Haley hasn't proven anything yet...

I am a Haley supporter, but he better have a quick turnaround time if he wants to stay Head Coach of the KC Chiefs.
Posted via Mobile Device

[KcMizzou]

If this story is true, (I'm skeptical) Will should have just kept his head down, answered "Yes sir, coach." and busted his ass 'till it passed. It's really all a guy can do in a situation like that. If the new coach has what you consider to be a bad, uninformed opinion of you... you've gotta show him that his opinion was wrong through hard work.

As a Mizzou homer, I still wish Franklin the best. Wish he'd worked out here.

[DaWolf]

This is all a weeding out process right now. You gotta remember Haley was tough on Fitzgerald too, but he responded and became a better player. Other players sulk. You can pretty much assume Franklin isn't going to any pro bowls anytime soon...

[The Bad Guy]

I'm not saying that nor did my post imply that. I'm simply saying that if your going to alienate players (like the rumors state in Arizona, along with his supposed treatment of Brian Waters, his rough demeanor with Franklin, and his unlikeable attitude in the media that may wear thin) then you damn well better W I N. If not, you won't be around long.

Parcells can get away with that because he is proven. Belicheck can get away with that because he is proven. Haley hasn't proven anything yet...

I am a Haley supporter, but he better have a quick turnaround time if he wants to stay Head Coach of the KC Chiefs.
Posted via Mobile Device

How did he alienate a player? New coaches test players all the time during the off-season and during training camp to see how mentally tough they are.

Franklin couldn't handle the test, and wanted out. I don't see why this is on Haley at all.

I also disagree with you that Haley has a short leash. Pioli knows Rome wasn't built in a day. This roster was a complete bag of shit when he took over. Haley is going to be given a long leash.

[MahiMike]

Could be he knew he was gonna cut Franklin anyways and wanted to set the tone.

[Mr. Arrowhead]

so who's next?

[EyePod]

WHB610 is giving him hell. No Neal Jones, did he get the ax?

Rumor is Haley called in Will Franklin and told him he was a marked man. He was one of "Herm's guys." Rode him so hard at the voluntary work outs that he asked for his release and it was granted.

I'm not having that big of a problem with this.

I love this.

[DaWolf]

This could have also been part of the intel that Haley got from guys like Price before he let them out of their contract, and some of the guys from last year they knew they had to push some buttons. Let's face it, there was probably a reason Franklin wasn't very productive last year, especially with the opportunities at wideout we had...

[the Talking Can]

Haley identifies the weakest member of the herd...

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/rXO3h6bpEUU&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/rXO3h6bpEUU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Oxford]

If this story is true, (I'm skeptical) Will should have just kept his head down, answered "Yes sir, coach." and busted his ass 'till it passed. It's really all a guy can do in a situation like that. If the new coach has what you consider to be a bad, uninformed opinion of you... you've gotta show him that his opinion was wrong through hard work.


I agree, and something about this has a funny ring to it. As far the clowns at 610, their idea of journalism and story prep leads me to think they got their degrees from a thermometer. I think its safe to say the mouths moving are not telling the whole story.

[TRR]

How did he alienate a player? New coaches test players all the time during the off-season and during training camp to see how mentally tough they are.

Franklin couldn't handle the test, and wanted out. I don't see why this is on Haley at all.

I also disagree with you that Haley has a short leash. Pioli knows Rome wasn't built in a day. This roster was a complete bag of shit when he took over. Haley is going to be given a long leash.

There were rumors of Haley alienating players when he was with the Cards. True or False? We don't know...but the rumor is definitely out there.

Obviously we will agree to disagree. The bottom line though is that Haley isn't too likeable or friendly to the media, has been rumored to be a pretty stand-off-ish, arrogant guy, and has no real previous history of success. When you add those things together, along with his team struggling to win games, it has the makings of a quick hook.

Again, I am a Haley backer...but he needs to win some games pretty quickly before some of the other things start to rear their ugly head. Winning cures all.

[DaneMcCloud]

Again, I am a Haley backer...but he needs to win some games pretty quickly before some of the other things start to rear their ugly head.

That's not going to happen.

4 wins TOPS in 2009.

[tonyetony]

I think Haley will be a football coach not a players coach. If a player blows an assignment I hope he gets right in their face and offers some kind of advice and I could care less how nice he is when dishing it out. I really can't remember Herm coaching anyone on game day.

[wasi]

[QUOTE=TRR;5677354]There were rumors of Haley alienating players when he was with the Cards. True or False? We don't know...but the rumor is definitely out there.

Obviously we will agree to disagree. The bottom line though is that Haley isn't too likeable or friendly to the media, has been rumored to be a pretty stand-off-ish, arrogant guy, and has no real previous history of success. When you add those things together, along with his team struggling to win games, it has the makings of a quick hook.[QUOTE]

I would agree if he was coaching a team in NY or Philadelphia, and we were all fans of the Giants, Jets or Eagles. I can't see the media having that much influence in KC. Add to that the changes that have occured this offseason, from ownership on down, and there is even less pressure on Haley to win now.

I am taking a wait and see approach with Haley. I'm not concerned about the feelings of Waters or Franklin.

[DaneMcCloud]

I am taking a wait and see approach with Haley. I'm not concerned about the feelings of Shields or Franklin.

I'm not worried about Shields, either.

Waters OTOH...

[whoman69]

That's not going to happen.

4 wins TOPS in 2009.

4 wins against the caliber of talent in the AFC West right now? Cleveland, Cincy and Jax on the schedule? Sounds like someone is hoping the choice of new coach is shown to be a bad decision. If Herm was still here, how many wins would you say?

[PastorMikH]

I don't care how much the players dislike him as long as he can win. He isn't there to be their buddy, he's there to turn them into winners.


How many posters are there that served in some level of the military that didn't want to see their drill instructor get ran over by a transport truck or something similar at some point during boot camp? And how many of you guys had respect for that same drill instructor once basic training was over?

The players may hate Haley now, but if he can turn them into winners, they'll respect him later.

[Mecca]

So basically what I've learned is some people are not going to be very happy with a coach that isn't warm and fuzzy.

[PastorMikH]

That's not going to happen.

4 wins TOPS in 2009.



I wouldn't be surprised if they doubled that figure or even went beyond.

[wasi]

I'm not worried about Shields, either.

Waters OTOH...

ROFL

[DaneMcCloud]

4 wins against the caliber of talent in the AFC West right now? Cleveland, Cincy and Jax on the schedule? Sounds like someone is hoping the choice of new coach is shown to be a bad decision. If Herm was still here, how many wins would you say?

Herm? Maybe one, probably two.

And you're nuts if you think that the Chiefs are coming out of Cincinnati and Jacksonville with wins.

The Chiefs lost their last game of the season to the Bengals with fucking Ryan Fitzpatrick at the helm. Carson Palmer would have carved them up for 40 points or more. And Jacksonville, with their running game and defense?

Apparently, you haven't looked at the Chiefs roster as of late.

[DaneMcCloud]

I wouldn't be surprised if they doubled that figure or even went beyond.

Oh please

ROFL

[tonyetony]

I'm not worried about Shields, either.

Waters OTOH...

I like the way Pioli referred to players under contract at the presser. I think he might have been tweaking Waters integrity since he negotiated his own contract.

[PastorMikH]

So basically what I've learned is some people are not going to be very happy with a coach that isn't warm and fuzzy.



How many playoff wins have the last 2 "warm and fuzzy" coaches gotten us?

I'm willing to take a chance on an in your face coach after what the warm and fuzzys have gotten us.

[Mecca]

How many playoff wins have the last 2 "warm and fuzzy" coaches gotten us?

I'm willing to take a chance on an in your face coach after what the warm and fuzzys have gotten us.

Hey you don't have to tell me that but the fact generally remains..

Many in this market have an infatuation with the nice guys, from coaches to players and so forth. It's a very sentimental market aswell...not to mention how guys who aren't even good get turned into cult heroes it's very weird.

[tonyetony]

Hey you don't have to tell me that but the fact generally remains..

Many in this market have an infatuation with the nice guys, from coaches to players and so forth. It's a very sentimental market aswell...not to mention how guys who aren't even good get turned into cult heroes it's very weird.

Carl was the worst about that shit. Pioli doesn't seem to be as market sentiment fixated at this point. He basically let it be known that we're entertaining all offers for anybody. I like that.

[ChiefaRoo]

Hey you don't have to tell me that but the fact generally remains..

Many in this market have an infatuation with the nice guys, from coaches to players and so forth. It's a very sentimental market aswell...not to mention how guys who aren't even good get turned into cult heroes it's very weird.

Agreed.

Listen, I pay my money, I tailgate with friends and family, I drink in the majesty of a packed Arrowhead Stadium on a crisp October day. I expect and demand that a quality Football team wearing red trots out onto the field. I don't give a shite about Tony's records, his Pro Bowls, Waters whining, Haley's lack of concern for the media or Pioli's team first fans second secrecy. PLAY FOOTBALL AND WIN! that about sums it up for me.

[Sure-Oz]

I heard todd haley shits all over the players gear after practices as well, to remind them exactly what they are and were before him and pioli came here

SHIT

[DaneMcCloud]

I heard todd haley shits all over the players gear after practices as well, to remind them exactly what they are and were before him and pioli came here

SHIT

And then he pees on all of them in the shower

[ChiefaRoo]

I heard Haley called Scanlon into his office leading him to believe he might get another shot at playing but all he wanted him to do was spit shine his dress shoes. He said " I'll keep your number on file Rich, we may need a second set of 22 off the street". Then he lit a match on Scanlons forehead, lit his cigar and had security hustle Scanlon out to the parking lot.

[BryanBusby]

And then he pees on all of them in the shower

Wait, he's R Kelly too?

[Sure-Oz]

And then he pees on all of them in the shower

Just a small reminder of the past few years for themROFL

[SenselessChiefsFan]

It is one thing to come in and be equally hard on all guys. But, if he singled out THIS player to make an example out of, then it is rookie coach mistake. You don't ever single out one player without provocation. Especially if you are saying to everyone that it is a fresh start for all the players.

If Franklin just couldn't take it, and he was treated like everyone else, then good riddance.

As with all rumors, who knows? Time will tell if Haley is handling the team correctly. We don't have enough information to make that assessment.

[raybec 4]

It is one thing to come in and be equally hard on all guys. But, if he singled out THIS player to make an example out of, then it is rookie coach mistake. You don't ever single out one player without provocation. Especially if you are saying to everyone that it is a fresh start for all the players.

If Franklin just couldn't take it, and he was treated like everyone else, then good riddance.

As with all rumors, who knows? Time will tell if Haley is handling the team correctly. We don't have enough information to make that assessment.

Good Lord if they only would have hired you instead of these Bozo's the Chiefs would be bound for a championship dynasty that would last for many years. Not to mention that extra special management style that you would bring to the table.

[Mr. Arrowhead]

I rather have a dickhead of a Head Coach that takes us places than a nice guy that gets us 6 wins in 2 years

[RealSNR]

It is one thing to come in and be equally hard on all guys. But, if he singled out THIS player to make an example out of, then it is rookie coach mistake. You don't ever single out one player without provocation. Especially if you are saying to everyone that it is a fresh start for all the players.

If Franklin just couldn't take it, and he was treated like everyone else, then good riddance.

As with all rumors, who knows? Time will tell if Haley is handling the team correctly. We don't have enough information to make that assessment.Die, dumbass.

[raybec 4]

Die, dumbass.

Well I went in a slightly different direction with my response to his idiocy but, that works too.

[Rooster]

Well I went in a slightly different direction with my response to his idiocy but, that works too.

ROFL

[buddha]

When was the last time that ANYBODY on ANY of the KC radio stations got something right? Passing rumors doesn't make it true...well, not for most of us. There are some of you who are so weak minded that you'll latch on to anything you can almost read.

[htismaqe]

It is one thing to come in and be equally hard on all guys. But, if he singled out THIS player to make an example out of, then it is rookie coach mistake. You don't ever single out one player without provocation. Especially if you are saying to everyone that it is a fresh start for all the players.

If Franklin just couldn't take it, and he was treated like everyone else, then good riddance.

As with all rumors, who knows? Time will tell if Haley is handling the team correctly. We don't have enough information to make that assessment.

I don't care if he was singled out or not. If he can't handle it, get the fug out.

[Otter]

Hey you don't have to tell me that but the fact generally remains..

Many in this market have an infatuation with the nice guys, from coaches to players and so forth. It's a very sentimental market aswell...not to mention how guys who aren't even good get turned into cult heroes it's very weird.

You mean Rich Scanlon & Marc Boerigter aren't going to the NFL Hall of Fame?

Do some searches on the quarterback arguments I used to have with some Chiefs Fans who would swear on the Bible that signing a 32 year career backup QB to start for the team was a good idea but drafting one was bad because it was it was too risky.

It's like arguing with Pope that we may have actually evolved at one point.

[Saccopoo]

You are right and they did play well enough to make a Superbowl, but they have had some pretty sorry rankings under Clancy.

Who cares. Super Bowl is the Super Bowl, and you've got to play on both sides of the ball to get there, unless you are the Chicago Bears.

Besides, Denver hired Mike Nolan. I mean, seriously. Mike Nolan. The dude that tried to deconstruct the Ravens defense. Pendergast is going to look like the Buddy Ryan in his prime compared to Nolan.

And someone was talking around here about being worried that Denver might get Sanchez if we trade the #3 with them. Sanchez, after having the backing of one of the best college defenses in recent memory, will be walking into a nightmare situation in Denver. A great defense allows a quarterback to take some chances that they might otherwise wouldn't take, but Denver, the last I checked, didn't necessarily qualify as a "great defense."

[morphius]

I don't care if he was singled out or not. If he can't handle it, get the fug out.
I'm sort of the opinion that maybe he saw something in the kid that made singling him out worth it. Maybe he saw some potential if the kid was really ready to bust his ass for it. If the kid laid down then he was never going to reach the next level, if he steps up, who knows. I mean really, it isn't like Haley hasn't seen the work ethic of some of the best WR's in the league.

[Chief Faithful]

It is one thing to come in and be equally hard on all guys. But, if he singled out THIS player to make an example out of, then it is rookie coach mistake. You don't ever single out one player without provocation. Especially if you are saying to everyone that it is a fresh start for all the players.

If Franklin just couldn't take it, and he was treated like everyone else, then good riddance.

As with all rumors, who knows? Time will tell if Haley is handling the team correctly. We don't have enough information to make that assessment.

From College on players get called out (I know it happened to me and it sucks). As a player you have to step it up or move on out. All those players know that is part of being a pro. Not only was it not a rookie HC mistake it is something this team has been lacking since Marty left.

[wasi]

I'm sort of the opinion that maybe he saw something in the kid that made singling him out worth it. Maybe he saw some potential if the kid was really ready to bust his ass for it. If the kid laid down then he was never going to reach the next level, if he steps up, who knows. I mean really, it isn't like Haley hasn't seen the work ethic of some of the best WR's in the league.

I agree.

I consider the comments by Haley and Pioli during their press conference yesterday about Engram and Thomas being reliable and in shape coming into the conditioning program as a good indication of why Franklin was cut.

All indications point to Haley using this program to set a tone that is obviously less loosy-goosy than under Herm. Franklin probably was singled out, but not without reason from the Haley/Pioli perspective.

[DaneMcCloud]

We don't have enough information to make that assessment.

Then how can you call it a rookie head coaching mistake?

Oh, I figured it out: Your and idiot.

[htismaqe]

I'm sort of the opinion that maybe he saw something in the kid that made singling him out worth it. Maybe he saw some potential if the kid was really ready to bust his ass for it. If the kid laid down then he was never going to reach the next level, if he steps up, who knows. I mean really, it isn't like Haley hasn't seen the work ethic of some of the best WR's in the league.

Excellent point.

[Micjones]

I agree.

I consider the comments by Haley and Pioli during their press conference yesterday about Engram and Thomas being reliable and in shape coming into the conditioning program as a good indication of why Franklin was cut.

All indications point to Haley using this program to set a tone that is obviously less loosy-goosy than under Herm. Franklin probably was singled out, but not without reason from the Haley/Pioli perspective.

Gotta make an example of someone I suppose.

[DaneMcCloud]

Gotta make an example of someone I suppose.

It sounds like exactly what they did.

Otherwise, you'd think they'd have been able to get something for him: Player for player trade, 7th rounder.

Just something.

[Micjones]

It sounds like exactly what they did.

Otherwise, you'd think they'd have been able to get something for him: Player for player trade, 7th rounder.

Just something.

I'd love to know what it was, specifically.

[googlegoogle]

The real question is why the TEEN hosting his show on 610am is slamming our coach for being TOUGH.

Maybe he should take up soccer instead. Oh my a tough SOB as coach. We can't have that. Right?

610am needs some balance. That kid host annoys me. He's just trying to get attention and he's a puss.

[Hammock Parties]

The Lions just dumped Franklin.

[Rain Man]

The Lions just dumped Franklin.


I bet they did it because he was a Haley man.

[Mr. Arrowhead]

The Lions just dumped Franklin.
ROFL

[chiefs1111]

The Lions just dumped Franklin.

It's just a matter of time before the Raiders pick him up

[BigRock]

Just in case no one's posted it, Gretz said on his site a week or so back that Franklin showed up to OTAs fat and out of shape and Haley's head exploded.

[Chaunceythe3rd]

Todd Haley is a despicable little tyrant who will never succeed unless he has a quarterback like Kurt Warner to bail his ass out of every game. Remember photo's of Kurt "teaching" Haley on the Cardinal's sidelines?

[the Talking Can]

i'm sure Neal Jones will apologize on air for being such a dipshit....

[htismaqe]

Todd Haley is a despicable little tyrant who will never succeed unless he has a quarterback like Kurt Warner to bail his ass out of every game. Remember photo's of Kurt "teaching" Haley on the Cardinal's sidelines?

ROFL

[LaChapelle]

Prick

[Hammock Parties]

That's not going to happen.

4 wins TOPS in 2009.

ROFL

We could have won 4 games easy last year with better coaching and better quarterback play.

We have that this year.

[Hammock Parties]

ROFL

YES! HE'S BACK!

EDIT - NO! HE'S NOT!

[DaneMcCloud]

ROFL

We could have won 4 games easy last year with better coaching and better quarterback play.

We have that this year.

We also face the Giants, Eagles, Redskins, Ravens, Steelers, Cowboys and Chargers, twice.

You're smokin' crack if you think the Chiefs will start better than 2-8.

[Hammock Parties]

We also face the Giants, Eagles, Redskins, Ravens, Steelers, Cowboys and Chargers, twice.

You're smokin' crack if you think the Chiefs will start better than 2-8.

They're capable of beating both the Cowboys and the Chargers. The Cowboys aren't going to be an elite team by any stretch this year.

I don't think that highly of the Redskins, either.

[DaneMcCloud]

They're capable of beating both the Cowboys and the Chargers. The Cowboys aren't going to be an elite team by any stretch this year.

I don't think that highly of the Redskins, either.

You're insane.

Thank you for your time.

[Hammock Parties]

You're insane.

Thank you for your time.

Dude, the Chiefs came with ONE POINT of beating the Chargers TWICE last year.

[Crush]

We also face the Giants, Eagles, Redskins, Ravens, Steelers, Cowboys and Chargers, twice.

You're smokin' crack if you think the Chiefs will start better than 2-8.


Sir, I take offense to that. The crack that I am smoking is top notch.

[DaneMcCloud]

Sir, I take offense to that. The crack that I am smoking is top notch.

LMAO

[DaneMcCloud]

Dude, the Chiefs came with ONE POINT of beating the Chargers TWICE last year.

So? BFD?

It's not like it translates from year to year.

"Ew, we lost by one point but THIS year, we're gonna get 'em because we're better now!".

That's fucking horseshit.

Merriman's gonna have a field day with our offensive line, especially after we've faced the NFC East in succession, not to mention the Ravens.

Why do you think Haley's got these motherfuckers running their asses off?

He knows.

[Hammock Parties]

It's not like it translates from year to year.


So the Chiefs could be significantly better this year than they were last year.

[DaneMcCloud]

So the Chiefs could be significantly better this year than they were last year.

And they'll still lose 12 games

[Hammock Parties]

And they'll still lose 12 games

Todd Haley won't allow that to happen.

[DaneMcCloud]

Todd Haley won't allow that to happen.

There's nothing he can do about it when three of his starting offensive lineman wouldn't start for any other team in the league, he's got one proven running back who's 30 years old, one proven WR that's currently running with the third team, a defensive front seven that's made of sticks and stones, an unproven rookie kicker, a question mark at long snapper and no return man.

Face it, Dude. We're fucked.

[KcMizzou]

There's nothing he can do about it when three of his starting offensive lineman wouldn't start for any other team in the league, he's got one proven running back who's 30 years old, one proven WR that's currently running with the third team, a defensive front seven that's made of sticks and stones, an unproven rookie kicker, a question mark at long snapper and no return man.

Face it, Dude. We're ****ed.Time to make chicken salad.

They won't set the world on fire this season... but I like where things are headed.

[DaneMcCloud]

Time to make chicken salad.

They won't set the world on fire this season... but I like where things are headed.

Oh, me, too!

It's just that the Chiefs have a very talent depleted roster.

If they go 4-12 this year, I'll be thrilled.

7-9 in 2010.

10-6 in 2011.

12-4 and Super Bowl in 2012.

[Hammock Parties]

three of his starting offensive lineman wouldn't start for any other team in the league

Highly debatable.

he's got one proven running back who's 30 years old

I think Charles proved something last year. The fact you discount him completely is quite a stretch.

one proven WR that's currently running with the third team

Uh, are you going to tell me Bobby Engram has proven NOTHING?

a defensive front seven that's made of sticks and stones

Oh please. It's not that bad. Magee, Jackson, Thomas, Vrabel - all upgrades.

an unproven rookie kicker

Who looks good so far...

a question mark at long snapper and no return man.


I agree with you here. SHIT!!! 2-14.

[DaneMcCloud]

Highly debatable.

No, it's not. If you actually think that Goff, Niswanger and ScIntosh would each start for an NFL franchise, you need to watch some film.

JFC.

I think Charles proved something last year. The fact you discount him completely is quite a stretch.

Yeah, he proved he had hamstring injuries and could only run the ball 67 times.

It's all about what you've done, not about potential.

Uh, are you going to tell me Bobby Engram has proven NOTHING?

He's proven that he's 36 and may not make the team. To think that a 36 year-old receiver is going to make an impact is tenuous at best.

Who was the last 36 year old receiver in the NFL to make an impact?

Oh please. It's not that bad. Magee, Jackson, Thomas, Vrabel - all upgrades.

Pure and utter speculation. First off, they're transitioning from a 4-3 to a 3-4, so there's no comparison to last year.

Secondly, and more importantly, you've just mentioned not one, but TWO fucking rookies and two guys with more than 13 years in the league are going to make an impact.

Really? Fucking really?

We'll all be lucky if three of those four are even standing by December. Zach Thomas is a 100 years old and neither Tyson Jackson or Alex Magee have played 16 games before (not to mention, the 4 pre-season games).

JFC, Clay. I'm really disappointed.

You're certainly not acting like an impartial journalist.

[EyePod]

They're capable of beating both the Cowboys and the Chargers. The Cowboys aren't going to be an elite team by any stretch this year.

I don't think that highly of the Redskins, either.

The Eagles are having MAJOR O-Line issues, and their defense just won't be the same without Dawkins.

[Hammock Parties]

No, it's not. If you actually think that Goff, Niswanger and ScIntosh would each start for an NFL franchise, you need to watch some film.

JFC.

Goff was good enough to start for a division winner last year. There are some REALLY crappy linemen out there. You act like every team is lining up with a bunch of all-pros.



Yeah, he proved he had hamstring injuries and could only run the ball 67 times.
So? He proved he could make plays. He's not Kolby Smith or Dantrell Savage. The guy has talent and has used it to success on an NFL field. He's a legit backup RB and threat out of the backfield. You're completely minimizing him to NOTHING and that's garbage.


He's proven that he's 36 and may not make the team. To think that a 36 year-old receiver is going to make an impact is tenuous at best.

Who was the last 36 year old receiver in the NFL to make an impact?Isaac Bruce caught 61 passes last year for the 49ers. Muhsin Muhammad caught 65 for the Panthers. Derrick Mason caught 80 for the Ravens. All these guys are near Engram's age. I'm not saying Engram is gonna catch 60 balls. But can he be a reliable third-down target and catch 35-40 passes this year? I don't see why not. That's an important role. He's definitely proven something.


Pure and utter speculation. First off, they're transitioning from a 4-3 to a 3-4, so there's no comparison to last year.

Secondly, and more importantly, you've just mentioned not one, but TWO fucking rookies and two guys with more than 13 years in the league are going to make an impact.

Really? Fucking really?
The Chiefs had COMPLETE TRASH on the defensive line last year. They got run the hell over. Magee and Jackson, if they are who Pioli thinks they are, aren't complete trash. Pretty simple.

As far as Thomas and Vrabel, yes, they could get hurt. ANYONE can get hurt. If they stay healthy, they'll improve the run defense, and Vrabel will improve the pass rush. There's no question about that. None at ALL. The Chiefs were bottom of the barrel in those areas last year.

[Lzen]

You're insane.

Thank you for your time.
Golly. With such an educated, well thought out replay, who could argue.




:rolleyes:

[Lzen]

Pure and utter speculation....so there's no comparison to last year.


This pretty much describes the entire Chiefs team this year. So why so certain that they will suck? They could go 2-14. Or they could go 8-8. Shoot, they could surprise us all and win more than that. Poinhat t is tyou don't know.

[Lzen]

Isaac Bruce caught 61 passes last year for the 49ers. Muhsin Muhammad caught 65 for the Panthers. Derrick Mason caught 80 for the Ravens. All these guys are near Engram's age. I'm not saying Engram is gonna catch 60 balls. But can he be a reliable third-down target and catch 35-40 passes this year? I don't see why not. That's an important role. He's definitely proven something.

I am concerned about the age of our WRs. They tend to lose a lot of the speed and athleticism necessary to compete in the NFL. The really good ones make up for that by using their experience and technique. If we're lucky, these guys might be able to do that. Still does not make me very confident.

As for Bowe, I think it is a good thing. Haley needs to get guys' attitudes in check. Remind me of one very successful (regular season) coach who put a Pro Bowl LBer on the bench for the first quarter/half of a big Monday night game at Denver in 1994. If it takes putting one of your blossoming stars on the 3rd string in camp to get his and the team's attitude right then so be it. I seriously doubt that he will still be that far down on the depth chart by mid season.

The aging LBers worry me a bit for the same reasons. However I believe that we have upgraded that position by far. So, perhaps it is worth the gamble.

[Hammock Parties]

I am concerned about the age of our WRs. They tend to lose a lot of the speed and athleticism necessary to compete in the NFL. The really good ones make up for that by using their experience and technique. If we're lucky, these guys might be able to do that. Still does not make me very confident.

Bobby Engram has NEVER had speed. He didn't come here to be a downfield threat, anyway.

[Skip Towne]

Haley is getting us ready for that new "over 35" league.

[CoMoChief]

Our WR's suck, plain and simple.




Still think we should sign Marvin Harrison if we're going with the veteran route. That is, "IF" he's healthy and is in shape.

[DaneMcCloud]

This pretty much describes the entire Chiefs team this year. So why so certain that they will suck? They could go 2-14. Or they could go 8-8. Shoot, they could surprise us all and win more than that. Poinhat t is tyou don't know.

Bullshit.

YOU don't know because apparently, you haven't been paying attention.

Who's going to be the game changer on defense? Who are offenses going to game plan for? Who's the guy that's gonna put up 15+ sacks? Every time I hear someone compare the Chiefs to Atlanta or Miami, I say "Where's the John Abraham for the Chiefs or the Joey Porter, you know, guys that put up 16 sacks?"

Answer: There is none.

Who's the game changer on offense? Right now, the Chiefs have ONE reliable (and that's debatable) receiver. ONE. They have ONE proven running back. They have an offensive line that features not one, not two but three men in their 30's. They're fucking ancient. And Niswanger sucks at center.

The bottom line is that the Chiefs have a serious, and I mean serious lack of talent up and down this roster. Bill Walsh couldn't coach this team to eight wins.

Why do you expect a first time head coach to do the same?

Oh yeah: You haven't been paying attention.

[SAUTO]

Bullshit.

YOU don't know because apparently, you haven't been paying attention.

Who's going to be the game changer on defense? Who are offenses going to game plan for? Who's the guy that's gonna put up 15+ sacks? Every time I hear someone compare the Chiefs to Atlanta or Miami, I say "Where's the John Abraham for the Chiefs or the Joey Porter, you know, guys that put up 16 sacks?"

Answer: There is none.

Who's the game changer on offense? Right now, the Chiefs have ONE reliable (and that's debatable) receiver. ONE. They have ONE proven running back. They have an offensive line that features not one, not two but three men in their 30's. They're fucking ancient. And Niswanger sucks at center.

The bottom line is that the Chiefs have a serious, and I mean serious lack of talent up and down this roster. Bill Walsh couldn't coach this team to eight wins.

Why do you expect a first time head coach to do the same?

Oh yeah: You haven't been paying attention.

damn dane calm down here, you sound like you may cry if we did go 8-8:D

[DaneMcCloud]

Goff was good enough to start for a division winner last year. There are some REALLY crappy linemen out there. You act like every team is lining up with a bunch of all-pros.

Yeah, last year, Clay. The Chargers released him, didn't they? Oh, and did you forget about the part where Goff couldn't pass the conditioning test? Nice.


So? He proved he could make plays. He's not Kolby Smith or Dantrell Savage. The guy has talent and has used it to success on an NFL field. He's a legit backup RB and threat out of the backfield. You're completely minimizing him to NOTHING and that's garbage.

Until he proves that he can stay on the field and stay healthy, he's nothing. He may be fast and he may be shifty, but that doesn't mean a thing if you're constantly in the tub.

Isaac Bruce caught 61 passes last year for the 49ers. Muhsin Muhammad caught 65 for the Panthers. Derrick Mason caught 80 for the Ravens. All these guys are near Engram's age. I'm not saying Engram is gonna catch 60 balls. But can he be a reliable third-down target and catch 35-40 passes this year? I don't see why not. That's an important role. He's definitely proven something.

Bobby Engram isn't Bruce or Muhammed. He was NEVER a speed receiver or deep threat. He's a possession receiver that's 36 years old. He was released by a 4-12 team, only to sign with a 2-14 team. That should tell you something about his value.

I'll be shocked if he makes it through the entire season, let alone makes the team.

The Chiefs had COMPLETE TRASH on the defensive line last year. They got run the hell over. Magee and Jackson, if they are who Pioli thinks they are, aren't complete trash. Pretty simple.

It's not simple. JFC! How is it simple? They're ROOKIES. They're playing in a new defense with a couple of ancient linebackers behind them. They've NEVER played 16 games in a season (let alone 20, with preseason). There's a learning curve involved by everyone on this defense.

Simple? Ha!

As far as Thomas and Vrabel, yes, they could get hurt. ANYONE can get hurt. If they stay healthy, they'll improve the run defense, and Vrabel will improve the pass rush. There's no question about that. None at ALL. The Chiefs were bottom of the barrel in those areas last year.

IF? IF? See, you don't get it. For the Chiefs to win 4 games, there can't be ANY "IF'S". NO injuries. NO missed field goals. NO losses in the turnover battle. NO stupid mistakes.

IF the Chiefs don't play perfect football, they're going to lose. Hell, they could play a perfect football game and still lose because of their inferior talent. Teams like the Ravens, Steelers and Giants will just move their offenses up and down the field at will against the Chiefs defense. Defenses like the Ravens, Giants, Steelers, Eagles and Chargers will constantly bring pressure against Goff, Niswanger and ScIntosh.

It's going to be a very ugly season.

[The Bad Guy]

Oh, me, too!

It's just that the Chiefs have a very talent depleted roster.

If they go 4-12 this year, I'll be thrilled.

7-9 in 2010.

10-6 in 2011.

12-4 and Super Bowl in 2012.

I just don't agree that you need 4 years to turn around a team void of talent.

The Atlanta Falcons roster was pretty void of any talent after the 2007 season. They had Vick in the pen, no real RB options, a young Roddy White, no offensive line, an aging Keith Brooking, and a no-name secondary.

With good solid coaching, and very smart drafting, they were able to turn it around quick. I know Ryan has a ton to do with that. But if Cassel performs well, the Chiefs patch up some holes this coming off-season, anything can happen.

I'm more confident with the leadership we have in place than I have ever been.

[Mecca]

Atlanta had a bit more talent than we do...

They had been a pretty solid team before the Vick fiasco and well Vicks non development.

[DaneMcCloud]

I just don't agree that you need 4 years to turn around a team void of talent.

The Atlanta Falcons roster was pretty void of any talent after the 2007 season. They had Vick in the pen, no real RB options, a young Roddy White, no offensive line, an aging Keith Brooking, and a no-name secondary.

With good solid coaching, and very smart drafting, they were able to turn it around quick. I know Ryan has a ton to do with that. But if Cassel performs well, the Chiefs patch up some holes this coming off-season, anything can happen.

I'm more confident with the leadership we have in place than I have ever been.

They're going to have to patch up more than a few holes.

Three offensive line spots, minimum. Three linebacker spots, minimum. Probably the nose tackle position. And definitely, a complimentary receiver opposite Bowe.

That's an awful lot for one season, not including depth.

[DaneMcCloud]

Atlanta had a bit more talent than we do...

They had been a pretty solid team before the Vick fiasco and well Vicks non development.

Exactly.

They had some serious first round receiving talent. A good offensive line. A game changing, pass rushing monster. And a decent linebacking corp.

Add a QB, a 1,500 yard rusher and what do you get? An 11-5 record.

The Chiefs are a few years away from 11-5.

[The Bad Guy]

Atlanta had a bit more talent than we do...

They had been a pretty solid team before the Vick fiasco and well Vicks non development.

Where was their talent? This is a big urban legend on this board that Atlanta was some team with good players. I've seen it posted more than once.

They had no offensive line.
They had no quarterback.
They featured an aging Warrick Dunn at RB.
They had Roddy White and Joe Horn at WR.
They had a broken down Alge Crumpler at TE.
They had Jon Abraham on their line and that's pretty much it.
They had Boley, Brooking and DeMorrio Williams at LB, none of which are even there anymore.
They had DeAngelo Hall, who I felt was insanely overrated then. Chris Houston is a good player, but I'd rate Brandon Flowers above him.

Where is all this talent that Atlanta had? They were very, very comparable to the 2008 Chiefs.

Jon Abraham and Roddy White are the only 2 real stars I see on that 2007 team.

[Just Passin' By]

They're going to have to patch up more than a few holes.

Three offensive line spots, minimum. Three linebacker spots, minimum. Probably the nose tackle position. And definitely, a complimentary receiver opposite Bowe.

That's an awful lot for one season, not including depth.

I agree with your general premise, although I'm not quite as pessimistic. I think that the team will be able to bring in some more help once teams start making the later cuts. There could be a tight end, one or more o-linemen and a defensive player or two coming over from New England, for example. Generally speaking, such players won't be guys who light the world on fire, but it will go towards building up the Chiefs' depth.

[Mecca]

Having a pass rusher is a big deal...

Plus their draft last year was outstanding it's not everyday you can grab your QB, LT and MLB in 1 year.

They also had a couple of young guys really step up on their line. Their approach was quite different than the Chiefs though they put a lot of young guys on the field in a sink or swim approach.

The only really old guy they had out there was Milloy and he's gone now.

[The Bad Guy]

Exactly.

They had some serious first round receiving talent. A good offensive line. A game changing, pass rushing monster. And a decent linebacking corp.

Add a QB, a 1,500 yard rusher and what do you get? An 11-5 record.

The Chiefs are a few years away from 11-5.

Their line was awful before last year. They overhauled the entire unit in 2008. That Falcons line did not have anything close to Brendan Albert or Brian Waters on it.

Michael Jenkins isn't serious talent. Roddy White is, but Jenkins isn't.

Their linebackers aren't even there anymore. Every single starter is new from 2 years ago. If Boley was so good, I'm sure they could have easily matched that Giant offer.

I'll give you Abraham, but everything else is questionable at best.

[The Bad Guy]

Having a pass rusher is a big deal...

Plus their draft last year was outstanding it's not everyday you can grab your QB, LT and MLB in 1 year.

They also had a couple of young guys really step up on their line. Their approach was quite different than the Chiefs though they put a lot of young guys on the field in a sink or swim approach.

The only really old guy they had out there was Milloy and he's gone now.

Gotcha.

So basically Atlanta can have young guys step up, but the Chiefs have no prayer.

[Mecca]

Considering what team signed Boley I'm wondering if Atlanta missed the boat on that one.

[Mecca]

Gotcha.

So basically Atlanta can have young guys step up, but the Chiefs have no prayer.

Which young guys are gonna step up?

The Chiefs aren't playing young guys, they're playing old guys. Atleast that's how it looks now.

Hell I account for the young guys playing being atleast solid and I still don't see more than 5 wins.

[DaneMcCloud]

Their line was awful before last year. They overhauled the entire unit in 2008. That Falcons line did not have anything close to Brendan Albert or Brian Waters on it.

Michael Jenkins isn't serious talent. Roddy White is, but Jenkins isn't.

Their linebackers aren't even there anymore. Every single starter is new from 2 years ago. If Boley was so good, I'm sure they could have easily matched that Giant offer.

I'll give you Abraham, but everything else is questionable at best.

Their scheme was awful in 2007. Their coach was awful in 2007. The three QB's they played were awful in 2007.

If the line was so awful, how was Ryan able to perform at such a high-level and how was Michael Turner able to put up 1,500+ yards?

Please, don't tell me that Niswanger, Goff & ScIntosh could swap places with Atlanta without the Falcons missing a beat.

Take a look at their roster: The 2008 Falcons have FAR more talent than the 2009 Chiefs. It's not even close.

[DaneMcCloud]

Gotcha.

So basically Atlanta can have young guys step up, but the Chiefs have no prayer.

What young guys for the Chiefs are going to step up? They have no young receivers outside of Bowe. They have no young linebackers. Richardson and Brown clearly aren't ready to help out the offensive line, otherwise, they'd be starting.

Where are the Chiefs game-changers? The guys that will put them over the top, week in and week out?

[The Bad Guy]

Their scheme was awful in 2007. Their coach was awful in 2007. The three QB's they played were awful in 2007.

If the line was so awful, how was Ryan able to perform at such a high-level and how was Michael Turner able to put up 1,500+ yards?

Please, don't tell me that Niswanger, Goff & ScIntosh could swap places with Atlanta without the Falcons missing a beat.

Take a look at their roster: The 2008 Falcons have FAR more talent than the 2009 Chiefs. It's not even close.

I'm talking about the 2007 Falcons roster. They turned that 2008 roster over in basically one season.

My point is, with the right people in charge, teams can transition pretty quickly.

[Omar_Doom]

An NFL head coach that is a prick??? OMG!

Why cant he be nice like Gruden, Parcells, Cowher, Shula, COuglin etc etc?

[The Bad Guy]

What young guys for the Chiefs are going to step up? They have no young receivers outside of Bowe. They have no young linebackers. Richardson and Brown clearly aren't ready to help out the offensive line, otherwise, they'd be starting.

Where are the Chiefs game-changers? The guys that will put them over the top, week in and week out?

Did you know who was going to step up for the Falcons? Did you think Sam Baker was going to turn into a solid LT?

Let the games be played before all these 4-5 year contender talk starts. Falcon fans never in a million years thought they'd be in contention last year.

Outside of Roddy White, the Falcons receivers leave a lot to be desired. Yes, Jenkins is a first round pick, but he's about as inconsistent as they come.

[DaneMcCloud]

I'm talking about the 2007 Falcons roster. They turned that 2008 roster over in basically one season.

My point is, with the right people in charge, teams can transition pretty quickly.

Do you feel the same way about the Detroit Lions or the Cleveland Browns?

Because if you hadn't noticed, we're on the same playing field as those teams.

And let's not even mention how long it's taken the Houston Texans to improve their franchise.

With the Chiefs poor drafting for more than a decade, trading away draft choices for coaches not once, but twice and the serious lack of talent up and down this roster, you can pretty much claim that the Chiefs are at the expansion team level in terms of talent.

It's going to take more than two years with Pioli in charge for that to change.

[Bwana]

Good! He needs to be a prick. Herm made this team soft, Haley has some work to do.

[milkman]

Where was their talent? This is a big urban legend on this board that Atlanta was some team with good players. I've seen it posted more than once.

They had no offensive line.

At center, thay have Todd McClure who is solid.
At Guard they have Harvey Dahl and Justin Blalock,both ascending young players who are very good.
At Taclkle they have Tyson Clabo and Sam Baker (who missed half the season last year).

All but McClure, in his 11th season, have played 3 or fewer seasons, and they comprise an outstnding group.
They had no quarterback.

No argument here.

They featured an aging Warrick Dunn at RB.
They had Roddy White and Joe Horn at WR.
They had a broken down Alge Crumpler at TE.
They had Jon Abraham on their line and that's pretty much it.
They had Boley, Brooking and DeMorrio Williams at LB, none of which are even there anymore.

They added Ryan, Turner, Lofton and Baker in free agency and the draft last year, but that team has been assembled over the last 5-6 years.

Look at that roster, there are only a handful of players with more than 6-7 years in the league.

They put some missing pieces in the puzzle last year, but that team wasn't built over the course of one offseason.

They had DeAngelo Hall, who I felt was insanely overrated then. Chris Houston is a good player, but I'd rate Brandon Flowers above him.

Where is all this talent that Atlanta had? They were very, very comparable to the 2008 Chiefs.

Jon Abraham and Roddy White are the only 2 real stars I see on that 2007 team.

The Chiefs simply don't have the same foundation yet that the Falcons had in place before the '08 season.

[milkman]

Did you know who was going to step up for the Falcons? Did you think Sam Baker was going to turn into a solid LT?

Let the games be played before all these 4-5 year contender talk starts. Falcon fans never in a million years thought they'd be in contention last year.

Outside of Roddy White, the Falcons receivers leave a lot to be desired. Yes, Jenkins is a first round pick, but he's about as inconsistent as they come.

I can't speak for Dane, but in the '08 draft, the only two LTs I wanted ahead of Baker were Albert and Clady, and I fully believed he'd be a damn good LT.

[DaneMcCloud]

Did you know who was going to step up for the Falcons? Did you think Sam Baker was going to turn into a solid LT?

Yes, I did and have said as much. He was the most "ready" out of all of the left tackles last year, though I did state that I thought he'd eventually end up at right tackle because he was "maxed out". But he definitely played well.

Let the games be played before all these 4-5 year contender talk starts. Falcon fans never in a million years thought they'd be in contention last year.

Well, I cannot account for the Falcons fans knowledge or lack of knowledge of their team. As soon as Dimitroff was hired, I knew that team was headed in the right direction. I told friends that Michael Turner was going to be sorely missed in San Diego and was met with laughs.

If San Diego had kept Turner and let LT go, they would have been in the Super Bowl.

Outside of Roddy White, the Falcons receivers leave a lot to be desired. Yes, Jenkins is a first round pick, but he's about as inconsistent as they come.

Sounds familiar, doesn't it? Except that the Chiefs don't have a Roddy White, they just have a "Jenkins". And they no longer have consistent outlet receiver.

The Falcons do, though. :D

[Hammock Parties]

Yeah, last year, Clay. The Chargers released him, didn't they? Oh, and did you forget about the part where Goff couldn't pass the conditioning test? Nice.

So? I don't really see those things as relevant. Good teams release good players all the time. The conditioning test is a joke. He's a 330-pound lineman.


Until he proves that he can stay on the field and stay healthy, he's nothing. He may be fast and he may be shifty, but that doesn't mean a thing if you're constantly in the tub.


You're reaching here. Charles played in all 16 games last year. You're making him out to be Kolby Smith. He's a threat.


Bobby Engram isn't Bruce or Muhammed. He was NEVER a speed receiver or deep threat. He's a possession receiver that's 36 years old. He was released by a 4-12 team, only to sign with a 2-14 team. That should tell you something about his value.

And neither was Muhammad. Engram was brought in to be a slot receiver and move the chains. If he stays healthy there is NO REASON he can't be a valuable asset to the team. He's not Jeff Webb.




It's not simple. JFC! How is it simple? They're ROOKIES. They're playing in a new defense with a couple of ancient linebackers behind them. They've NEVER played 16 games in a season (let alone 20, with preseason). There's a learning curve involved by everyone on this defense.

They're still more talented than sacks of garbage like McBride and Pat Thomas. You can't sit there with a straight face and tell me Tyson Jackson is going to be as bad as Turk McBride and Zach Thomas is going to be as bad as Pat Thomas. Come on.


IF? IF? See, you don't get it. For the Chiefs to win 4 games, there can't be ANY "IF'S". NO injuries. NO missed field goals. NO losses in the turnover battle. NO stupid mistakes.

That's absolutely ridiculous. The Chiefs had a shit load of problems last year and could have won 4 games, perhaps even 6, if they had been better coached and had a better quarterback.


Teams like the Ravens, Steelers and Giants will just move their offenses up and down the field at will against the Chiefs defense.

How do you know? We know nothing about those teams. Joe Flacco could go completely in the tank this year. The Steelers still have a terrible line and the Giants lost Plaxico Burress.


Defenses like the Ravens, Giants, Steelers, Eagles and Chargers will constantly bring pressure against Goff, Niswanger and ScIntosh.

So? You act like Matt Cassel wasn't under pressure last year. He was under TREMENDOUS PRESSURE.


It's going to be a very ugly season.

Probably. I still don't see why they can't win 7 games. If the Dolphins can go from 1-15 to 11-5, the Chiefs can go from 2-14 to 7-9.

This is the NFL. Quick turnarounds happen ALL THE TIME.

ALL. THE. TIME.

[Hammock Parties]

They have no young linebackers.

The fact that you completely discount Derrick Johnson says a lot about how you view the Chiefs.

He's not a Pro Bowler. But he's a solid player. He'd start for most defenses.

You could do a lot worse than Derrick Johnson. And when the Chiefs are good on defense again, he WILL be a part of it.

[The Bad Guy]

Yes, I did and have said as much. He was the most "ready" out of all of the left tackles last year, though I did state that I thought he'd eventually end up at right tackle because he was "maxed out". But he definitely played well.



Well, I cannot account for the Falcons fans knowledge or lack of knowledge of their team. As soon as Dimitroff was hired, I knew that team was headed in the right direction. I told friends that Michael Turner was going to be sorely missed in San Diego and was met with laughs.

If San Diego had kept Turner and let LT go, they would have been in the Super Bowl.



Sounds familiar, doesn't it? Except that the Chiefs don't have a Roddy White, they just have a "Jenkins". And they no longer have consistent outlet receiver.

The Falcons do, though. :D

Dwayne Bowe is comparable to Michael Jenkins?

That's just hilarious.

What I understand from this thread is that the grass is always greener other places. Do I think the Chiefs are going to win this year, no, I don't. Do I think they are going to win next year, I have absolutely no idea, and I'm not willing to pretend like I know how things are going to shake out. But I'm happy with the leadership in charge.

[Slainte]

Honest to Pete, I thought it was the schedule the Falc's played last year. Pretty cream puff, IIFC...

[DaneMcCloud]

Dwayne Bowe is comparable to Michael Jenkins?

That's just hilarious.

That was a joke. I guess I should have added a smiley so you'd get it.

What I understand from this thread is that the grass is always greener other places.

Well, that isn't my point of view but you could certainly view it as such.

Especially considering that since 2000, the Chiefs have had three winning seasons versus seven losing seasons. And they haven't won a playoff game since the 1993 post season.

So yeah, it's pretty evident that the grass has been greener elsewhere.

[Hammock Parties]

Everyone thought Casey Wiegmann sucked complete shit his last year here.

Then he goes to Denver and is a part of the #2 offense.

Herm was a frickin' moron and Haley is going to make a HUGE difference.

7 wins if Cassel stays healthy.

[DaneMcCloud]

The fact that you completely discount Derrick Johnson says a lot about how you view the Chiefs.

He's not a Pro Bowler. But he's a solid player. He'd start for most defenses.

You could do a lot worse than Derrick Johnson. And when the Chiefs are good on defense again, he WILL be a part of it.

Derrick Johnson is a huge, gigantic disappointment.

He was taken at #15 overall, a spot that designates that he should have been an impact player. He's not. He disappears not just for huge chunks of plays but for games at a time.

He is probably the most inconsistent player on the Chiefs defense and does nothing to elevate the level of play of the other players on defense.

[DaneMcCloud]

Everyone thought Casey Wiegmann sucked complete shit his last year here.

Then he goes to Denver and is a part of the #2 offense.

Herm was a frickin' moron and Haley is going to make a HUGE difference.

7 wins if Cassel stays healthy.

You're in for a long, long season.

[Marcellus]

Derrick Johnson is a huge, gigantic disappointment.

He was taken at #15 overall, a spot that designates that he should have been an impact player. He's not. He disappears not just for huge chunks of plays but for games at a time.

He is probably the most inconsistent player on the Chiefs defense and does nothing to elevate the level of play of the other players on defense.

You don't think any of that had to do with coaching?

[Iowanian]

Simon Says...Duct Tape the broken Ankle...Practice starts in 20 minutes.

[Frosty]

Everyone thought Casey Wiegmann sucked complete shit his last year here.

Then he goes to Denver and is a part of the #2 offense.

Herm was a frickin' moron and Haley is going to make a HUGE difference.

7 wins if Cassel stays healthy.

Exactly. I'm not going to make a definite decision if a player sucks or not until the stench of Herm is completely washed off.

[DaneMcCloud]

You don't think any of that had to do with coaching?

Not after 4 years.

No way.

Do you think that Jared Allen was successful because of coaching?

LMAO

[DaneMcCloud]

Exactly. I'm not going to make a definite decision if a player sucks or not until the stench of Herm is completely washed off.

You could be waiting a long time in many cases

[Frosty]

You could be waiting a long time in many cases

The folks with permanent Herm stench will all be gone by next season.

[hawaiianchief]

He should be glad the coach cared enough to call him in and challenge him, usually means that they see potential in you and they want you to be the very best you can be, unfortunately you showed your true colors, and that you don't have a strong mind, and basically your a f##king pussy, and when bullets start to fly you will run and hide, later.

[Hammock Parties]

Derrick Johnson is a huge, gigantic disappointment.

He was taken at #15 overall, a spot that designates that he should have been an impact player. He's not. He disappears not just for huge chunks of plays but for games at a time.

He is probably the most inconsistent player on the Chiefs defense and does nothing to elevate the level of play of the other players on defense.

Jesus, I'm sorry he's not Derrick Thomas.

Nothing you said refutes my point: that he is a solid player and a solid NFL starter who has a place on a good defense.

[Marcellus]

Not after 4 years.

No way.

Do you think that Jared Allen was successful because of coaching?

LMAO

I think Jared Allen could rush the passer, more or less sucked against the run,and was fooled by the bootleg all the damn time. What he was good at was a gift he had that didn't need to be coached. Go kill the QB.

What he sucked at were things that should have been coachable.

I guess now you are going to tell me he was a good run defender and he didn't fall for the bootleg all the time.:rolleyes:

[DaneMcCloud]

Jesus, I'm sorry he's not Derrick Thomas.

Nothing you said refutes my point: that he is a solid player and a solid NFL starter who has a place on a good defense.

Really? Are you serious? Is that your argument? "Oh, he's solid".

BFD.

Are you claiming that he was worth #15 overall pick?

C'mon. Let's hear it.

[DaneMcCloud]

I think Jared Allen could rush the passer, more or less sucked against the run,and was fooled by the bootleg all the damn time. What he was good at was a gift he had that didn't need to be coached. Go kill the QB.

What he sucked at were things that should have been coachable.

I guess now you are going to tell me he was a good run defender and he didn't fall for the bootleg all the time.:rolleyes:

Duh.

Do you think that if he couldn't rush the passer that he would have received the largest contract for a D-lineman at that time?

Urine idiot.

[Hammock Parties]

Are you claiming that he was worth #15 overall pick?

C'mon. Let's hear it.


No....but he has a place on a good defense.

[DaneMcCloud]

No....but he has a place on a good defense.

So, you admit that he's not a consistent game changer. That's he's just a "guy" with a "place" on a "good" defense.

Sounds like a 4th rounder to me.

[Hammock Parties]

So, you admit that he's not a consistent game changer. That's he's just a "guy" with a "place" on a "good" defense.

Sounds like a 4th rounder to me.

Monty Beisel is a "guy."

Derrick Johnson can make plays. He's proven that. He's an above-average level starter in the league. And definitely refutes your point that the Chiefs have no young linebackers.

[DaneMcCloud]

Monty Beisel is a "guy."

Derrick Johnson can make plays. He's proven that. He's an above-average level starter in the league. And definitely refutes your point that the Chiefs have no young linebackers.

LMAO

So you're telling me that one out of four young starting linebackers is enough? Enough for what?

Derrick Johnson doesn't make plays with any more frequency than did Scott Fujita, who was a 5th round choice. He's average, at best.

I don't understand people's fascination with Derrick Johnson. I'd have taken Aaron Rodgers in a heartbeat over "DJ".

[Deberg_1990]

LMAO



Derrick Johnson doesn't make plays with any more frequency than did Scott Fujita, who was a 5th round choice. He's average, at best.

I don't understand people's fascination with Derrick Johnson. I'd have taken Aaron Rodgers in a heartbeat over "DJ".


This! Dont make me bump my Rodgers over DJ thread again! :)

[DeezNutz]

LMAO

So you're telling me that one out of four young starting linebackers is enough? Enough for what?

Derrick Johnson doesn't make plays with any more frequency than did Scott Fujita, who was a 5th round choice. He's average, at best.

I don't understand people's fascination with Derrick Johnson. I'd have taken Aaron Rodgers in a heartbeat over "DJ".

Big XII, bitches. Representin'.

[Hammock Parties]

LMAO
So you're telling me that one out of four young starting linebackers is enough? Enough for what?

It's not. I was just refuting your point. That's all.


Derrick Johnson doesn't make plays with any more frequency than did Scott Fujita, who was a 5th round choice. He's average, at best.

Scott Fujita never LED THE LEAGUE IN TACKLES FOR LOSS.

And Fujita is a good, solid linebacker whom the Chiefs were dumb to let leave. And he exceeded his draft position.


I don't understand people's fascination with Derrick Johnson. I'd have taken Aaron Rodgers in a heartbeat over "DJ".

Me too. Pretty irrelevant for the purposes of our discussion, though.

[Marcellus]

Duh.

Do you think that if he couldn't rush the passer that he would have received the largest contract for a D-lineman at that time?

Urine idiot.


What? How does that back up your argument? That has nothing to do with your failed point that none of DJ's issues have anything to do with poor coaching.

Yea, I am the idiot. I would guess that using the logic you did above, you could believe the more you type and fail to back up your constant blather the dumber I look.

[DaneMcCloud]

What? How does that back up your argument? That has nothing to do with your failed point that none of DJ's issues have anything to do with poor coaching.

Failed point? So, you're telling us that if Derrick Johnson was coached up, he'd be a better player? Based on what? What makes you think he'd be a better player with different coaches?

How is it that the defensive coaches all suck, but Jared Allen didn't and doesn't suck? Can't you just for one fucking minute say to yourself "Hey, he's just not that good?"

Yea, I am the idiot.

I know

:D

[Marcellus]

Failed point? So, you're telling us that if Derrick Johnson was coached up, he'd be a better player? Based on what? What makes you think he'd be a better player with different coaches?

How is it that the defensive coaches all suck, but Jared Allen didn't and doesn't suck? Can't you just for one ****ing minute say to yourself "Hey, he's just not that good?"


:D

Had you been paying attention earlier, you would see that I explained that to you in post # 217. Instead of you having to figure out how to find post 217 I have cut and paste it below. If you still don't get the point then I am wasting my time arguing with someone who is unable or unwilling to comprehend simple logic.

I think Jared Allen could rush the passer, more or less sucked against the run,and was fooled by the bootleg all the damn time. What he was good at was a gift he had that didn't need to be coached. Go kill the QB.

What he sucked at were things that should have been coachable.

He has 1 skill he is good at and it just happens to be a very valuable skill. I am not knocking him, I wish he was still a Chief, but to use him as an example to say its not possible DJ has suffered from poor coaching is fucking absurd.

[Hammock Parties]

So, you're telling us that if Derrick Johnson was coached up, he'd be a better player? Based on what? What makes you think he'd be a better player with different coaches?


ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

The guy had three different linebackers coaches in four years. Gunther fucking Cunningham filled his head full of shit for his entire career. The Chiefs changed his position three times in four years.

The guy DEFINITELY hasn't been given the proper coaching. He's been fucked with so much it's no WONDER he hasn't filled his potential.

[DeezNutz]

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

The guy had three different linebackers coaches in four years. Gunther ****ing Cunningham filled his head full of shit for his entire career. The Chiefs changed his position three times in four years.

The guy DEFINITELY hasn't been given the proper coaching. He's been ****ed with so much it's no WONDER he hasn't filled his potential.

Oh. I thought it was his inability to take on and defeat blockers, which has been a shortcoming of his since college.

Turd, meet polish rag.

[Hammock Parties]

Oh. I thought it was his inability to take on and defeat blockers, which has been a shortcoming of his since college.

Turd, meet polish rag.

Teams would be lining up to sign Derrick Johnson if the Chiefs released him. He's no turd.

[DeezNutz]

Teams would be lining up to sign Derrick Johnson if the Chiefs released him. He's no turd.

In the context of the conversation, he's the metaphoric turd, and this is certainly accurate.

Johnson is who the scouts thought he was. /in my best Green voice/ He fell for a reason. He's ok, but far from elite, and a HUGE disappointment for his draft position.

[DaneMcCloud]

Teams would be lining up to sign Derrick Johnson if the Chiefs released him. He's no turd.

Who said he was a turd?

I said that first off, his play over the last four seasons in no way justifies a top fifteen selection overall, that in retrospect he'd be a fourth rounder and finally, that his play is average.

Average.

Not great.

Not poor.

Average.

How in the HELL can you argue differently?

[DeezNutz]

Who said he was a turd?

I said that first off, his play over the last four seasons in no way justifies a top fifteen selection overall, that in retrospect he'd be a fourth rounder and finally, that his play is average.

Average.

Not great.

Not poor.

Average.

How in the HELL can you argue differently?

Me.

He was the metaphoric turd in my earlier post.

[DaneMcCloud]

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

The guy had three different linebackers coaches in four years. Gunther fucking Cunningham filled his head full of shit for his entire career. The Chiefs changed his position three times in four years.

The guy DEFINITELY hasn't been given the proper coaching. He's been fucked with so much it's no WONDER he hasn't filled his potential.

JFC. Football isn't rocket science. Either you can play or your can't.

Derrick Johnson shows up some weeks, and disappears others. That's on HIM.

Not the coaches. Not the scheme. It's on Derrick Johnson.

Oh, if he was such a playmaker (as you suggest), how did he drop a sure-fire TD against the Jets? The ball was in his fucking hands!

He is average.

[DaneMcCloud]

Me.

He was the metaphoric turd in my earlier post.

Clay was the metaphoric turd?

:p

[DeezNutz]

Clay was the metaphoric turd?

:p

I should start using more ambiguous antecedents in an effort to insult more posters...:hmmm:

[DaneMcCloud]

Teams would be lining up to sign Derrick Johnson if the Chiefs released him.

And I'm sure he'd disappoint them as well.

[DaneMcCloud]

I should start using more ambiguous antecedents in an effort to insult more posters...:hmmm:

Or be like me and continue to directly insult them

:evil:

[Hammock Parties]

Who said he was a turd?

I said that first off, his play over the last four seasons in no way justifies a top fifteen selection overall, that in retrospect he'd be a fourth rounder and finally, that his play is average.

Average.

Not great.

Not poor.

Average.

How in the HELL can you argue differently?

I think he's slightly above average. He led the league in tackles for loss. Come on now. Average players DON'T do that.

I guess you agree with me, though. Ultimately the Chiefs have a good young linebacker in Derrick Johnson. He has a place as a starter on a good NFL defense. Not elite, but definitely worthy of his starting spot.

Pretty hard to refute that.

[DaneMcCloud]

I think he's slightly above average. He led the league in tackles for loss. Come on now. Average players DON'T do that.

I guess you agree with me, though. Ultimately the Chiefs have a good young linebacker in Derrick Johnson. He has a place as a starter on a good NFL defense. Not elite, but definitely worthy of his starting spot.

Pretty hard to refute that.

I think he's average. For every time that he makes "a play", he misses the next (i.e., the Jets game).

He's not a game changer and he's not someone you game plan around. He's a average linebacker on a very bad defense.

I'm not advocating that the Chiefs dump him, I just don't think he's "special".

[DeezNutz]

I very much think DJ is replaceable, a guy who should be fighting for a job every TC, which pretty much defines his "meh" status.

But he led the league in tackles after 3 yards every other Sunday111 "Meh" players don't do that111

[Hammock Parties]

I think he's average. For every time that he makes "a play", he misses the next (i.e., the Jets game).

He's not a game changer and he's not someone you game plan around. He's a average linebacker on a very bad defense.

I'm not advocating that the Chiefs dump him, I just don't think he's "special".

But you agree your original point - that the Chiefs have no young linebackers - was wrong?

That's all we're getting at here.

[Hammock Parties]

I very much think DJ is replaceable, a guy who should be fighting for a job every TC, which pretty much defines his "meh" status.

But he led the league in tackles after 3 yards every other Sunday111 "Meh" players don't do that111

Well, they don't. You can poke fun at it as much as you want. It's a valid point.

He's replaceable, sure. But only if the guy is a frickin' Pro Bowler or something. Otherwise you're wasting resources for a slight upgrade. Stupid.

[DaneMcCloud]

But you agree your original point - that the Chiefs have no young linebackers - was wrong?

That's all we're getting at here.

I guess if you want to consider a 5th year linebacker "young", so be it.

He's certainly younger than a 13th or 14th year linebacker.

[DeezNutz]

Well, they don't. You can poke fun at it as much as you want. It's a valid point.

He's replaceable, sure. But only if the guy is a frickin' Pro Bowler or something. Otherwise you're wasting resources for a slight upgrade. Stupid.

Consistency would be a significant upgrade. We don't even have to start talking about Pro Bowls.

[Hammock Parties]

I guess if you want to consider a 5th year linebacker "young", so be it.

He's certainly younger than a 13th or 14th year linebacker.

LMAO

Now we're moving the goalposts.

Whatever guys. When the Chiefs are good again on defense, Derrick Johnson will be a big part of it. He's part of the solution, not part of the problem.

PS - Derrick Johnson had the HIGHEST stop rate of any Chiefs linebacker last year. He was in the top 40 against the run and the top 30 against the pass (not even Ray Lewis could say that).

That definitely makes him above average in terms of starting linebackers (3 per team x 32 = 96 - and I should really throw in the 3-4 teams but I didn't) .

[Buehler445]

He should be glad the coach cared enough to call him in and challenge him, usually means that they see potential in you and they want you to be the very best you can be, unfortunately you showed your true colors, and that you don't have a strong mind, and basically your a f##king pussy, and when bullets start to fly you will run and hide, later.

Welcome to the Planet.

[LaChapelle]

He moved the schedule around so that Thanksgiving is their day off this week
WHAT A MOTHER FUCKING PRICK