Torry Holt?

[Mr. Krab]

I would think that Torry Holt would be right up Scott Pioli's alley. Imo Pioli wants to win now, he doesn't believe in a full rebuild. He believes in supplementing the team with veterans while doing as much as you can with the draft.

I could see the Chiefs being more active in Free Agency after the draft than they were before the draft. I also think they are going to make sure that Cassel has a chance to succeed.

Cassel/Holt/Bowe/Gonzo could run Haley's offense imo

[OnTheWarpath15]

Sure, why not.

Might as well try for the "brokedown WR" hat trick.

2 oft-injured WR's is enough. Let's pass on the soon-to-be 33 year old with an arthritic knee.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

9-7, FTW!!

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

We've talked about this and I was for it while most of the CP experts were against getting a really talented vet to school Bowe and give Cassel a proven weapon.

[Mr. Krab]

Cry all you want, Pioli isn't Carl. He is gonna want to win games now with the idea of building as you go. If the Chiefs don't get a impact WR in the draft i expect them to sign another veteran wideout.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I don't care if he's Randy Moss. If he's jogging around like Barry Bonds, he's not worth a damn to anyone.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Cry all you want, Pioli isn't Carl. He is gonna want to win games now with they idea of building as you go. If the Chiefs don't get a impact WR in the draft i expect them to sign another veteran wideout.

Actually, that's exactly what Carl would do. Try and win as much as you can right now and showing a disproportionate and illogical loyalty to players you are familiar with that aren't all that good anymore.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

9-7, FTW!!

Yea 2-14, 3-13, etc is much better. How dare the Cheifs try to win more games... maybe get a playoff berth in a weak divison. Suck or Super-Bowl shoe-in is the only way to go.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

9-7, FTW!!

"Do you lie awake at night dreaming of 9-7"? :D

[Mr. Krab]

Actually, that's exactly what Carl would do. Try and win as much as you can right now and showing a disproportionate and illogical loyalty to players you are familiar with that aren't all that good anymore.
The bold part doesn't apply at all.

Trying to win now and adding vets isn't a problem as long as you do a good job of drafting as well.

[OnTheWarpath15]

We've talked about this and I was for it while most of the CP experts were against getting a really talented vet to school Bowe and give Cassel a proven weapon.

You know, if he was a talented vet with a solid knee, I'd be all for it.

But the fact remains: He has an arthritic knee that is nearly bone-on-bone.

He's been sitting on the FA market for a month now without any action.

Fuck it, bring him in. Between him, Engram and Bradley, the three of them might COMBINE for 16 games.

[KCrockaholic]

We've talked about this and I was for it while most of the CP experts were against getting a really talented vet to school Bowe and give Cassel a proven weapon.

Myself included was all for this, and still am. Holt would do nothing but good things for us. He will be cheap, and the boom factor is tremendous compared to the bust factor.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Yea 2-14, 3-13, etc is much better. How dare the Cheifs try to win more games... maybe get a playoff berth in a weak divison. Suck or Super-Bowl shoe-in is the only way to go.

You aren't going to win a Super Bowl without elite players, including a franchise QB. We're in the perfect situation to get one this year, and we ruined our draft value by trading for sloppy seconds. Meanwhile, rather than developing the young talent we do have, we're moving to a scheme that doesn't fit what little talent is here, and signing guys to play special teams.

I had enough of those "squeak into the playoffs, get your ass pushed in years". Sorry if I want a long term contender. How selfish of me.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

The bold part doesn't apply at all.

Trying to win now and adding vets isn't a problem as long as you do a good job of drafting as well.

It does apply when your desire to get your old, less-talented QB ruins the draft value for your new team.

I don't think people realize how perfect of a draft situation we were in pre-Cassel. You take Sanchez and run with it, then you can take a RT, WR, or a rush backer at the top of round two, and you've gone a long way towards building your team for the long haul, as you have affordable bookends and a young QB, or a young QB with a safe blindside and another weapon at his disposal, or a young QB and a guy who can get to the QB and get your defense off the field.

[oldandslow]

It does apply when your desire to get your old, less-talented QB ruins the draft value for your new team.

I don't think people realize how perfect of a draft situation we were in pre-Cassel. You take Sanchez and run with it, then you can take a RT, WR, or a rush backer at the top of round two, and you've gone a long way towards building your team for the long haul, as you have affordable bookends and a young QB, or a young QB with a safe blindside and another weapon at his disposal, or a young QB and a guy who can get to the QB and get your defense off the field.

You know...

when we start winning in a year or two - long term - posts like these are really going to seem silly.

We have gone a long way building our team for the long haul NOW. Cassel is a fine QB. Further we will get a better RT, WR, rush backer at the top of the draft than at the top of round two. Your assertion that we would get the same value at the top of 2 is ridiculous. Or we can trade down and get a couple of pieces to the puzzle.

Between you and Mecca, the man-love for Sanchez is blinding the eyes to any other scenerio.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

If he was healthy sure why not, but he's not. We would be signing the big name without the production.

[chiefs1111]

It does apply when your desire to get your old, less-talented QB ruins the draft value for your new team.

I don't think people realize how perfect of a draft situation we were in pre-Cassel. You take Sanchez and run with it, then you can take a RT, WR, or a rush backer at the top of round two, and you've gone a long way towards building your team for the long haul, as you have affordable bookends and a young QB, or a young QB with a safe blindside and another weapon at his disposal, or a young QB and a guy who can get to the QB and get your defense off the field.

This

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

You aren't going to win a Super Bowl without elite players, including a franchise QB. We're in the perfect situation to get one this year, and we ruined our draft value by trading for sloppy seconds. Meanwhile, rather than developing the young talent we do have, we're moving to a scheme that doesn't fit what little talent is here, and signing guys to play special teams.

I had enough of those "squeak into the playoffs, get your ass pushed in years". Sorry if I want a long term contender. How selfish of me.

A lot of football people say there are no franchise qb's in this years draft. Of course only time will tell but just because there are guys to draft doesn't make them right it would seem.

It also seems Mr. Pioli has had some experience building a long term contender. I trust whatever we do will benefit the bottom line now or later.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

You know...

when we start winning in a year or two - long term - posts like these are really going to seem silly.

We have gone a long way building our team for the long haul NOW. Cassel is a fine QB. Further we will get a better RT, WR, rush backer at the top of the draft than at the top of round two. Your assertion that we would get the same value at the top of 2 is ridiculous. Or we can trade down and get a couple of pieces to the puzzle.

Between you and Mecca, the man-love for Sanchez is blinding the eyes to any other scenerio.

If you want to draft a RT with a top 3 pick, or if you think any WR or rush backer in this draft is worth a top 3 pick, you probably should get a CAT scan.

And FWIW, I like Stafford more than Sanchez, but I still like Sanchez infinitely more than Cassel.

Furthermore, I'd like to know how Zach Thomas and Mike Vrabel help us in the long haul when they're going to the glue factory in less than two years. But yes, maybe they'll just magically rub off on the other players like pixie dust.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

A lot of football people say there are no franchise qb's in this years draft. Of course only time will tell but just because there are guys to draft doesn't make them right it would seem.

It also seems Mr. Pioli has had some experience building a long term contender. I trust whatever we do will benefit the bottom line now or later.

Pioli has as much experience being the guy in charge as you or I do. If picking up these abilities were simply osmotic, Crennel, Weis, and Mangini would be great coaches.

[oldandslow]

Do you think the talent at the top of round 2 is better than round 1? Simple question.

BTW, we will probably pick a LT at 3, not a RT.

Monroe would be picked higher than Albert in a draft and I think you know it.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Furthermore, I'd like to know how Zach Thomas and Mike Vrabel help us in the long haul when they're going to the glue factory in less than two years. But yes, maybe they'll just magically rub off on the other players like pixie dust.

By magically rubbing off on the other players like pixie dust

[oldandslow]

If you want to draft a RT with a top 3 pick, or if you think any WR or rush backer in this draft is worth a top 3 pick, you probably should get a CAT scan.

And FWIW, I like Stafford more than Sanchez, but I still like Sanchez infinitely more than Cassel.

Furthermore, I'd like to know how Zach Thomas and Mike Vrabel help us in the long haul when they're going to the glue factory in less than two years. But yes, maybe they'll just magically rub off on the other players like pixie dust.

Vrabel and Thomas are simply stop gaps. We aren't winning 12 ball games next year - we probably won't win six. That doesn't mean that you don't sign some guys that know how to play the game.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Pioli has as much experience being the guy in charge as you or I do. If picking up these abilities were simply osmotic, Crennel, Weis, and Mangini would be great coaches.

Ok now you're just being a silly boy.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Vrabel and Thomas are simply stop gaps. We aren't winning 12 ball games next year - we probably won't win six. That doesn't mean that you don't sign some guys that know how to play the game.

I just don't want some elderly scrub blocking the path of someone who can actually contribute in 2011.

[oldandslow]

I just don't want some elderly scrub blocking the path of someone who can actually contribute in 2011.

Who are they going to block? We have no one on the roster right now. You don't want to draft Curry (neither do I). DJ is gonna play. We draft defense next year. This year, I suspect it will be mostly offense.

[Micjones]

Meanwhile, rather than developing the young talent we do have, we're moving to a scheme that doesn't fit what little talent is here, and signing guys to play special teams.

What young talent do we have at LB?
Don't worry...I'll wait.

[Mr. Krab]

It does apply when your desire to get your old, less-talented QB ruins the draft value for your new team.

I don't think people realize how perfect of a draft situation we were in pre-Cassel. You take Sanchez and run with it, then you can take a RT, WR, or a rush backer at the top of round two, and you've gone a long way towards building your team for the long haul, as you have affordable bookends and a young QB, or a young QB with a safe blindside and another weapon at his disposal, or a young QB and a guy who can get to the QB and get your defense off the field.
Still crying like a little bitch about Stafford/Sanchez, i see.

[JazzzLovr]

By magically rubbing off on the other players like pixie dust

:popcorn:

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

:popcorn:

extra butter?

[Pasta Little Brioni]

It does apply when your desire to get your old, less-talented QB ruins the draft value for your new team.

I don't think people realize how perfect of a draft situation we were in pre-Cassel. You take Sanchez and run with it, then you can take a RT, WR, or a rush backer at the top of round two, and you've gone a long way towards building your team for the long haul, as you have affordable bookends and a young QB, or a young QB with a safe blindside and another weapon at his disposal, or a young QB and a guy who can get to the QB and get your defense off the field.

So now Cassel is old???I did want the team to do what you described and wasn't thrilled that they did acquire him, but the stuff people come up with to hate on Cassel is just ridiculous.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

What young talent do we have at LB?
Don't worry...I'll wait.

Glenn Dorsey fucking sucks, obviously. Fortunately, he's a great fit for a 3-4. As is Tank Tyler :doh!:

[ChiefsCountry]

What young talent do we have at LB?
Don't worry...I'll wait.

Talking about Dorsey, Hali, Flowers, etc.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

So now Cassel is old ROFL I did want the team to do what you described and wasn't thrilled that they did acquire him, but the Cassel hate is just ridiculous.

Old QB as in, "he was with my old franchise".

I didn't say "older".

Reading comprehension, it's fantastic :thumb:

[SAUTO]

Old QB as in, "he was with my old franchise".

I didn't say "older".

Reading comprehension, it's fantastic :thumb:

to be fair it was kinda misleading hamas

[milkman]

Do you think the talent at the top of round 2 is better than round 1? Simple question.

BTW, we will probably pick a LT at 3, not a RT.

Monroe would be picked higher than Albert in a draft and I think you know it.

Al Groh really did Albert a disservice.

If I was Branden Albert. I would probably go back to Virginia and bitch slap Al Groh today.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

to be fair it was kinda misleading hamas

Yeah, but you're a grease monkey, Sauto. The dollar menu is confusing to you.









:fire:

[Micjones]

Glenn Dorsey fucking sucks, obviously. Fortunately, he's a great fit for a 3-4. As is Tank Tyler :doh!:

I'm sorry... I thought your argument was that the FA's will impede the growth of the younger players?

[SAUTO]

Yeah, but you're a grease monkey, Sauto. The dollar menu is confusing to you.









:fire:

hey lets be realistic here i can read more than the happy meal section.

[SAUTO]

:DAl Groh really did Albert a disservice.

If I was Branden Albert. I would probably go back to Virginia and bitch slap Al Groh today.

twice:D

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Old QB as in, "he was with my old franchise".

I didn't say "older".

Reading comprehension, it's fantastic :thumb:

Doh, sorry man :doh!: Totally got the wrong vibe from that post.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

The bold part doesn't apply at all.

Trying to win now and adding vets isn't a problem as long as you do a good job of drafting as well.

I hope he's better at drafting than he is at free agency. That's right; you heard me!

You aren't going to win a Super Bowl without elite players, including a franchise QB. We're in the perfect situation to get one this year, and we ruined our draft value by trading for sloppy seconds. Meanwhile, rather than developing the young talent we do have, we're moving to a scheme that doesn't fit what little talent is here, and signing guys to play special teams.

I had enough of those "squeak into the playoffs, get your ass pushed in years". Sorry if I want a long term contender. How selfish of me.

And there it was; the only post and point in this entire fucking debate that means jack-shit.
Marinate.

You know...

when we start winning in a year or two - long term - posts like these are really going to seem silly.

We have gone a long way building our team for the long haul NOW. Cassel is a fine QB. Further we will get a better RT, WR, rush backer at the top of the draft than at the top of round two. Your assertion that we would get the same value at the top of 2 is ridiculous. Or we can trade down and get a couple of pieces to the puzzle.

Between you and Mecca, the man-love for Sanchez is blinding the eyes to any other scenerio.

1) You hope.

2) Cassel is a pud. A big, fucking pud. And I'm callin' it right now; that goofy-looking PUD is gonna' flop like a fish on dry dock.
That's right; you heard me. You ALL heard me.



Yeah, but you're a grease monkey, Sauto. The dollar menu is confusing to you.

ROFL








:fire:

[oldandslow]

!



1) You hope.

2) Cassel is a pud. A big, ****ing pud. And I'm callin' it right now; that goofy-looking PUD is gonna' flop like a fish on dry dock.
That's right; you heard me. You ALL heard me.

Yes, I hope. Don't you?

Cassel is a younger version of Trent Green. He had a rough first year, but after that - nails. Give TG a defense and we win the 1 SB - maybe 2.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Yes, I hope. Don't you?

Cassel is a younger version of Trent Green. He had a rough first year, but after that - nails. Give TG a defense and we win the 1 SB - maybe 2.

I've learned that unlike shit, hope doesn't float.

A younger version of Trent Green you say?!?:eek:

Well hells-bells; where's my kool-aid cup??? I was wrong! What was I thinking???

[SAUTO]

2) Cassel is a pud. A big, fucking pud. And I'm callin' it right now; that goofy-looking PUD is gonna' flop like a fish on dry dock.
That's right; you heard me. You ALL heard me.

we will see , i'm calling you wrong right here

[oldandslow]

I've learned that unlike shit, hope doesn't float.

A younger version of Trent Green you say?!?:eek:

Well hells-bells; where's my kool-aid cup??? I was wrong! What was I thinking???

Go through life as a pessimist. I really don't care. You wanna be a cynic to be cool, have at it.

I will be choose to be an optimist until proven otherwise.

You will have the opportunity to write on a message board, "I told you so."

Or if proven wrong, you will find something else to spew about.

[Rain Man]

On the original topic, I'm curious. Where would people rate Torry Holt right now among the top 64 wide receivers in the league? (Two starters, and #3 and #4.)

I'd probably still rate him in the top 15, or maybe top 20. I think it's more a salary issue than an ability issue.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

On the original topic, I'm curious. Where would people rate Torry Holt right now among the top 64 wide receivers in the league? (Two starters, and #3 and #4.)

I'd probably still rate him in the top 15, or maybe top 20. I think it's more a salary issue than an ability issue.

The Rams had a ton of cap room and no WRs and they let him go.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Go through life as a pessimist. I really don't care. You wanna be a cynic to be cool, have at it.

I will be choose to be an optimist until proven otherwise.

You will have the opportunity to write on a message board, "I told you so."

Or if proven wrong, you will find something else to spew about.

Well, just make a batch of strawberry and "glug-glug-glug" then! :thumb:

[Rain Man]

The Rams had a ton of cap room and no WRs and they let him go.

So you're saying they think he's worse than anything they've got?

Oh, hey. I just looked up his stats. Was he playing hurt last year? I remember he had a zillion 1,300 yard seasons, but it looks like he had six of those, then two in the 1,100 to 1,200 range, and was below 800 last year.

Now I'm in last season's stats. He played in all 16 games. So did he suddenly get real old, or was something else going on? Was Bulger out?

[Mr. Krab]

So you're saying they think he's worse than anything they've got?

Oh, hey. I just looked up his stats. Was he playing hurt last year? I remember he had a zillion 1,300 yard seasons, but it looks like he had six of those, then two in the 1,100 to 1,200 range, and was below 800 last year.

Now I'm in last season's stats. He played in all 16 games. So did he suddenly get real old, or was something else going on? Was Bulger out?
The only real problem that i see is if Holt's knee is a chronic, degenerative situation. He they don't expect him to ever be able to play full time again.

I would love to have Holt on a 2 year deal for us. He might not want that though, he might be looking for that last big contract.

[Rain Man]

I didn't watch any Rams games last year, so this Holt thing is surprising me. He started 14 games and Bulger started 15, and his production went down 30 to 50 percent from his next-lowest year since Constantinople fell. Was it a knee thing, Mr. Krabs? Or was it Pace going down and the Rams generally stinking up the joint?

[Mr. Krab]

I didn't watch any Rams games last year, so this Holt thing is surprising me. He started 14 games and Bulger started 15, and his production went down 30 to 50 percent from his next-lowest year since Constantinople fell. Was it a knee thing, Mr. Krabs? Or was it Pace going down and the Rams generally stinking up the joint?
I'm going by rumors about his injury and the fact that the Rams just cut their best receiver. If Holt passes our physical than as far as i'm concerned it's all good. I still think Holt has game left. Bowe and the rest of our receivers could learn alot from him too. Signing Holt right before training camp would be a very Patriot/Pioli thing to do imo.

[OnTheWarpath15]

The only real problem that i see is if Holt's knee is a chronic, degenerative situation. He they don't expect him to ever be able to play full time again.

I would love to have Holt on a 2 year deal for us. He might not want that though, he might be looking for that last big contract.


He has an arthritic knee that is bone on bone. THAT is why the Rams cut him, not the money. They don't think he'll be a full time, productive player.

I posted this back before he was cut. That was the last bit of info I got from my friend in the FO before he went to lockdown mode with the draft.

[Mr. Arrowhead]

I think Torry is enjoying the nursing home too much to sign with anybody

['Hamas' Jenkins]

So you're saying they think he's worse than anything they've got?

Oh, hey. I just looked up his stats. Was he playing hurt last year? I remember he had a zillion 1,300 yard seasons, but it looks like he had six of those, then two in the 1,100 to 1,200 range, and was below 800 last year.

Now I'm in last season's stats. He played in all 16 games. So did he suddenly get real old, or was something else going on? Was Bulger out?

He has a degenerative arthritic knee.

[Rain Man]

He has a degenerative arthritic knee.

Well, that would explain a lot, I guess.

That's too bad. I liked him as a player. I didn't think he got the credit that he deserved, at least after the Greatest Show on Turf disbanded.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Well, that would explain a lot, I guess.

That's too bad. I liked him as a player. I didn't think he got the credit that he deserved, at least after the Greatest Show on Turf disbanded.

He was a great receiver, but there's not much anyone can do on a knee that is bone on bone.

[MoreLemonPledge]

Apparently he signed a 3 year deal with the Jaguars.

[MIAdragon]

Apparently he signed a 3 year deal with the Jaguars.

Lemon Pledge sucks, just saying.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

From the front office that brought you Jerry Porter as a FA, and Matt Jones and Reggie Williams in the 1st round.

[Mr. Krab]

Holt signs with Jacksonville


Comment (http://myespn.go.com/conversation/story?id=4084662) Email (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4084662#) Print (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=4084662&type=story) Share (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:void%280%29;) <script type="text/javascript"> var stobj = SHARETHIS.addEntry({ title:"Source:%20Holt%20agrees%20to%203-year%20deal%20with%20Jaguars", url:"http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4084662", published: "2009-04-20" }); stobj.attachButton(document.getElementById("espnstlink")); </script>
<cite class="source"> By John Clayton
ESPN.com
</cite>
<!-- end mod-article-title --> <!-- begin story body --> Former St. Louis Rams (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=stl) wide receiver Torry Holt (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=1757) agreed to a three-year deal with the Jacksonville Jaguars (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=jac) on Monday that could be worth as much as $20 million, according to a source.

The 32-year-old Holt agreed to a creative contract that grows financially based on the way he plays. The deal, according to a source, calls for three years with base salaries totaling $13 million. While there is no signing bonus, the first year of the contract is guaranteed.
The Jaguars worked a similar deal with left tackle Tra Thomas (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=1447) that rewards him with bigger salaries based on his playing time and his performance.

Holt chose the Jaguars over the Tennessee Titans (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=ten), among other teams that were interested. He was released by the Rams and was considered one of the top receivers available via free agency.